Re: Rendezvous, event loops, and why I need SDK docs

[Alex Rice]

On Nov 11, 2003, at 10:44 PM, MisterX wrote:
Save often, pick up a good book on C. That C code is hellish! Doing the
advanced stuff like the Life game or the imagine stuff on the tutorial 
is
impressive! But should be easy with practice and time.
Xavier- thanks for the info. I have already studied the externals 
tutorial that comes with metacard. I agree that is the only starting 
point available to us.

But it is definitely not my experience that it becomes easy with 
practice and time. Soon you will find out that externals tutorial is 
poorly commented, and does not even attempt to document the API. Most 
of the code doesn't even have comments. The tutorial is useful for 
seeing some of the possibilities one can do with externals- and that's 
about it.

By imitating the code in external.c I learned enough to write some 
simple commands and functions. So although I have written a useful 
external, there is much I need to learn. And once again I have run into 
this documentation barrier and can learn no more from this meager 
tutorial.

I have written an external for the CLIPS expert system, compiled for 
both OS X and Win32 (using VC++6). You can see it here:


revclips is just simple commands and functions. Passing strings back 
and forth between CLIPS and transcript. It does not attempt more 
advanced techniques like array manipulation, image manipulation, 
threading, networking or event loop issues.

Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Mindlube Software | 


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RE: Call for opinions - announcing a new made with RR Game!

[MisterX]

Sorry folks for the wrong image!

Image is now fixed. 

http://www.monsieurx.com/downloads/roulette11.gif

RunRev Palette is not a game of chance!!!

I got fooled by the cache! 

Thanks for your patience and humor!

Thanks to Richard for letting the information be known!

Xavier

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of MisterX
> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 23:40
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Call for opinions - announcing a new made with RR Game!
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> Most of you gamble a license for work! May this be another
> success story for you! I have an alternate way for those 
> other gamblers (apparently many clients who can be exposed
> to RR)!
> 
> After a couple day-Revving time, here is introduction of my 
> first video game! I'd like to know your impressions and 
> ideas if you so graciously oblige! 
> 
> Although the screenshot hides the simulator part and makes it
> look like a simple video game, it's not really a video game 
> but a serious Roulette Simulator...
> 
> Check out the latest screenshot
> http://www.monsieurx.com/downloads/roulette11.gif
> 
> MacOS and *nix versions planned naturally!
> 
> This is the first "demo" game before the Pro version is finished.
> It will have a win-optimizer with dynamic strategy gameplay... 
> Many features to come incl. Neural Networks, professional strategy 
> sets, game stats, and there even more serious economic game-theory 
> framework plans for later! 
> 
> Those who make the best suggestions will win a free version of 
> the game version! 
> 
> One Pro version might go free if you make a bull-eye suggestion!
> 
> Serious beta testers are definitely
>  welcome if you promess feedback!
> 
> BTW, I'm seeking for one daring scripter/graphic-artist and/or a 
> hard-core programmer in C or C++ for a sweepstake gamble.
> 
> cheers
> Xavier
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RE: Rendezvous, event loops, and why I need SDK docs

[MisterX]

The xcmd examples (the only I've found from MC/RR) is divided in different
parts. You have to find the externals "tutorial" stack buried inside
the MCTools Help Menu under Tutorial! 

There you have the principal functions of the externals explained.

of which the call back test for example

# call the external routine, passing the names/nums/ids of the objects
# that the external should work on as arguments.
on mouseUp
  global MCExternalTest
  local tVar, x
  put 2 into x
  put "x + 1" into tVar
  callbacktests "SendCardMessage", "SendMCMessage", "MCExternalTest", \
  "GetFieldByName", \
  the number of field "GetFieldByNum", \
  the id of field "GetFieldById", \
  "SetFieldByName", \
  the number of field "SetFieldByNum", \
  the id of field "SetFieldById",\
  "tVar"
  put the result into field "results"
  put "tVar set to" && tVar
end mouseUp

In the xcmd, you have the normal c/c++ stuff and the xcmd/xfcn part.
Try to follow the name between the "external" call in the beginning
of the c code (there's a comment about it) and the "respective" functions
for that external call. They are bunched together before the functions! 

This is a nice example of "more than one" external in a dll. Im not sure
how it would work for Mac's XCMD/XFCN resource name=function name.
(Lower case resource names are for PPC coded resources in case you wonder)

Facts:
XCMD = a void action (no return info - normally)
XFCN = a function with a return value

XCMD's model is based on Pascal and the old HC external glue so pointer 
limitations and limited variables are possible - also depends on OS...

To compile
On Windows, Visual C++ works great. I havent tried other compilers. 
On the mac the best was compileIt or Metrowerks.

To use
Make sure your stack has the external assigned to it!
MC: Stack properties -> Components -> Externals
RR: Stack props -> External references
Save stack
Restart the stack (make sure it's purged) or restart MC/RR

Then you start the crash/test dummy loop...
Working with externals means you work on a clean version of MC/RR not your
std environment because IT WILL CRASH!!!

Save often, pick up a good book on C. That C code is hellish! Doing the
advanced stuff like the Life game or the imagine stuff on the tutorial is
impressive! But should be easy with practice and time.

Ken has some good stuff about it...
http://www.rpi.edu/~simonk/technical.html

Let me know if you can't find the tutorial stack...
Anyone seen it in RR?

cheers
Xavier



> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Alex Rice
> Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2003 22:43
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Re: Rendezvous, event loops, and why I need SDK docs
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 11, 2003, at 2:14 PM, tuviah snyder wrote:
> >>
> > Embedded Revolution supports access to the main event loop. The idea 
> > behind embedded Revolution is you would link your external code with 
> > librev and compile a custom engine. The advantages are
> >
> > 1) no external overhead on Linux.
> > 2) Single file executable
> > 3) Access to event loops.
> 
> That's good to know. What is the availability/licensing of Embedded 
> Revolution?
> 
> > I don't see why we can't support access to the event loop for 
> > externals as well..the external would need to register the callback 
> > however to avoid any performance problems.
> 
> Can you describe the purpose of X_main_loop(), 
> X_set_pre_xevent_handler(), and X_set_post_xevent_handler() in 
> XCmdGlue.c? Is that what you are referring to in item 3) above, or is 
> it something else?
> 
> >> SDK docs would be good, but I fear they would only confirm we have a
> >> lot of work to do to do any useful externals.
> > We are working on it.  Tim Monroe just wrote an excellent article on  
> > developing QT externals with Rev, and we plan to extend on some of 
> > that for our own docs
> 
> Is RR providing externals API documentation in addition to a tutorial? 
> Not knowing the purpose and usage of most of these functions is the 
> main problem for me.
> 
> Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Mindlube Software | 
> 
> 
> what a waste of thumbs that are opposable
> to make machines that are disposable  -Ani DiFranco
> 
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Re: Database Query Builder: workaround please

[Alex Rice]

On Nov 11, 2003, at 10:19 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

I can't believe I'm the only one being hassled by this bug, so is 
there a workaround I am missing?
And I mean other than *not using the query builder at all*.

It is appealing to use the GUI to maintain connections and recordsets, 
and doing scripting only where necessary.

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Database Query Builder: workaround please

[Alex Rice]

I can't believe I'm the only one being hassled by this bug, so is there 
a workaround I am missing?

In the Database Query Builder, Record Set tab, if you enter some bad 
SQL into the field labeled "SQL Query:", a popup error message says "An 
error resulted for the SQL command in the database ...". You click OK, 
then "SQL Query" field gets focus for a moment, then loses focus and 
the same modal error message pops up. Repeatedly.

Now I've tried Command-period and I've tried to turn off the Messages 
using the Messages toolbar item, but neither has any effect because Rev 
is stuck in this loop of modal dialogs. So - I have to force-quit 
Revolution?

See bugzilla #696. This bug was opened 7 weeks ago.

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Re: iDisk Software folder

[Alex Rice]

On Nov 11, 2003, at 6:16 PM, Thomas J McGrath III wrote:

I believe you need to submit that to Apple. I think. If you have .mac 
you can put it in your shared folder or on the web at .mac and share 
it that way.
Yep I'm sure it has to be submitted to Apple. I just haven't been able 
to find out how or who to contact.

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Re: Paint pallette

[Thomas J McGrath III]

Actually,

Now I have been opening other stacks from the contributors site and a 
lot of them do not seem to work in the new REV or it could be OSX3 
Now I don''t know.
They did open in REV 2.1 and OSX2.8

Has anyone else seen problems

Tom

On Nov 11, 2003, at 9:57 PM, Thomas J McGrath III wrote:

Listies,

Has any one upgraded to 2.1.2 and OSX .3 and noticed anything weird 
with the paint palette in REV.
Mine is missing a line and one of the buttons on the right is acting 
weird. I don't remember that in previous version or with previous 
OSX.2.8

Thanks
Tom
Thomas J McGrath III
Advanced Media Group
220 Drake Rd.
Bethel Park, PA 15102
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Paint pallette

[Thomas J McGrath III]

Listies,

Has any one upgraded to 2.1.2 and OSX .3 and noticed anything weird 
with the paint palette in REV.
Mine is missing a line and one of the buttons on the right is acting 
weird. I don't remember that in previous version or with previous 
OSX.2.8

Thanks
Tom
Thomas J McGrath III
Advanced Media Group
220 Drake Rd.
Bethel Park, PA 15102
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Applescript - getting data in and out of Rev 2.02

[iMP]

Hi:

Can someone clue me in on how to get some text in a field in Rev into 
a field in FileMaker, and vice versa,  using Mac Rev Pro 2.02? I've 
tried 10,000 variations on  "do field 1 as applescript" to no avail. 
I can't find anything in the docs about this basic function. Is there 
a tutorial somewhere?

Thanks,

guy
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Re: Revolution as CGI

[Björnke von Gierke]

On Mittwoch, Nov 12, 2003, at 02:15 Europe/Zurich, Gregory Lypny wrote:

Hello everyone,

I've been intrigued by the idea of using Rev as a CGI for some time, 
and of late have been frustrated by FileMaker's online update 
anomalies when scripts and global variables are part of a web-based 
database.  At any rate, I'm ready to take the web plunge with Rev, but 
there's a couple of things I'd appreciate clarification on.

First, there's the chmod stuff for permission to execute files.  I've 
seen the number 775 and 777 thrown around.  Which is it?
actually its 755 but all three work fine.

Second, and this is no doubt a dumb question, but I can have many 
scripts in separate (text) files located in my bin folder, can't I?  
Is there a particular naming convention (.cgi?)?
.cgi is most often used, but it doesn't matter much.

I made some cgi's myself and after some pitfalls i was able to do it. 
For example you need to give write permission for everyone for the 
directory where your stack is when you want to save your stack. Even 
took me a mail to runrev support to find that out :D



Regards,

Greg
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Re: iDisk Software folder

[Thomas J McGrath III]

I believe you need to submit that to Apple. I think. If you have .mac 
you can put it in your shared folder or on the web at .mac and share it 
that way.

Tom

On Nov 11, 2003, at 8:02 PM, Alex Rice wrote:

Does anyone know how to get your app added into the Software folder in 
iDisk ( on Mac OS)



Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Mindlube Software | 


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Revolution as CGI

[Gregory Lypny]

Hello everyone,

I've been intrigued by the idea of using Rev as a CGI for some time, 
and of late have been frustrated by FileMaker's online update anomalies 
when scripts and global variables are part of a web-based database.  At 
any rate, I'm ready to take the web plunge with Rev, but there's a 
couple of things I'd appreciate clarification on.

First, there's the chmod stuff for permission to execute files.  I've 
seen the number 775 and 777 thrown around.  Which is it?

Second, and this is no doubt a dumb question, but I can have many 
scripts in separate (text) files located in my bin folder, can't I?  Is 
there a particular naming convention (.cgi?)?

Regards,

Greg
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Re: Questions about experiences

[Alex Rice]

On Nov 11, 2003, at 5:48 AM, T. R. Ponn wrote:
I have 2 associates who warned me about wasting time...one is in love 
with Linux & JAVA, the other Windows/ C++/ VB.  At every turn, I heard 
the same doubts from them (echoed in my head, as well).  Between 
RunRev and the wonderful ppl on this list, my project is complete 
(well, perhaps it will never be done ;-) ).  My associates are now 
keenly interested in this RunRev IDE! :-D
All right! That's the best kind of advocacy.

BTW...this took 6 months from a cold start (except for the HC 
background), and Rev1.1.1.  You can download a copy of our app from 
our website.  There are 3 standalones there...Mac PPC, Windows and 
Linux. It's rather specialized SW...meant to control an embedded 
system...so it's real meaning may be lost on those not familiar with 
the embedded world.
What's the URL? Just curious to see actual Rev apps out in the wild.

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iDisk Software folder

[Alex Rice]

Does anyone know how to get your app added into the Software folder in 
iDisk ( on Mac OS)



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Re: Two questions

[Thomas J McGrath III]

Thanks to Ken and Richard for a well needed push.

I have only been using REV for four weeks now and have built two 
interactive applications. One is for distribution on a CD and has 
hundreds of graphics and built in search features etc.

But 'Time takes Time' so I still need to study this wonderful tool and 
get up to date.
So, not being lazy :-) I am committed to studying the docs. I was 
hoping for the printed version as I find studying much easier with 
paper products. I spend enough time in front of an LCD as it is.

So consider me pushed in the right direction. I do love exploring new 
things.

Thanks,
Tom
On Nov 11, 2003, at 3:05 PM, Ken Norris wrote:

Hi Tom,

Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:55:23 -0500
From: Thomas J McGrath III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Two questions

Are you guys sure that 'send in' will actually work without taxing
the various systems and processors? Cause if I start using it, you 
know
I will break it. ;-)
--
Checkout the Transcript Cookbook in the docs. The first two scripts (99
Bottles of Beer) are supposed to demo the difference between using a 
repeat
structure and a send-in-time structure. Set up a couple of windows and 
make
the comparison.

See for yourself if you think it will work for you.

Ken N.

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Bethel Park, PA 15102
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Re: Animation with Sliding or Walking figures

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, "Alejandro Tejada"  wrote:

>> But the real solution is not speed -- it is one of
>> stopping the forward
>> sliding motion when a foot is "planted" on
>> the "ground".  The body should
>> propel itself forward with a foot fixed in place so
>> the constant motion you
>> are attempting to use is not going to create natural
>> looking motion.
> 
> Now I understand, the way to do this is using
> multiple images as icons in buttons.

I would say that is a flexible and efficient way to go about development.
But you could also use an animated GIF as your "sprite" and simply set its
currentFrame to the desired frame number, which is how the demo stack works.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Animation with Sliding or Walking figures

[Alejandro Tejada]

Ooops, I noticed today that my response to
Scott do not pass to the mail list!!!

on Wed Nov 5 22:20:05 EST 2003 
Scott Rossi wrote:

>But the real solution is not speed -- it is one of 
>stopping the forward
>sliding motion when a foot is "planted" on 
>the "ground".  The body should
>propel itself forward with a foot fixed in place so 
>the constant motion you
>are attempting to use is not going to create natural 
>looking motion.

Now I understand, the way to do this is using
multiple images as icons in buttons.

>I posted a variation of your stack that illustrates 
>how it could work.
>Enter the following in your message box:

>go stack 
>url
"http://www.tactilemedia.com/download/walkingman_new.rev";

Fantastic!!! Extraordinary
Could I call you Master Rossi? :))

>This should provide more natural looking motion.  You

>can adjust the walking
>speed of the figure by changing the number of
>milliseconds used in the send
>(repeat) loop.

This change in the milliseconds really produces
some frantic movements, that remember me 
of "Sonic" the hedgepodge. I even put a slider
control to change this time.
It's wonderful to watch the development of another
of the capabilities of this platform

>How it was done:
>[snip]
>(Sidebar: note the arm swings are technically 
>reversed.  The natural motion
>of the human body is to swing forward the arm that is

>opposite of the leg currently moving forward.)

Yes, it really looks strange. Few people can walk
this way. Georgette Corchoff points me to a
software named LifeForms. To my surprise, I found
that they sell not only 3d models but movements too!!

Even the movements will become under copyright law!
For those interested in alternatives in copyright 
issues, visit the site: http://www.creativecommons.org

>Hope this helps.

Thanks a lot again, and 
KeepUp your extraordinary good work!
Al



=
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http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/
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Re: OS 10.3 no launch Rev docs -- apple script ???

[Sarah]

Richard,

Since Rev 2.1.1 you can replace this function with the built-in 
revMacFromUnixPath function.

Cheers,
Sarah
On 12 Nov 2003, at 4:41 am, Richard Gaskin wrote:
function UnixFile2Mac pFileName
   if char 1 of pFileName = "/" then delete char 1 of pFileName
   replace ":" with "<4WSlashPlaceHolder>" in pFileName
   replace "/" with ":" in pFileName
   replace "<4WSlashPlaceHolder>" with "/" in pFileName
   --
   if IsOSX() then
  set the itemDel to ":"
  if item 1 of pFileName <> "Volumes" then
 put line 1 of the drives &":" before pFileName
  end if
   end if
   --
   return pFileName
end UnixFile2Mac
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Re: defaultFolder is changed by printer drivers

[Alex Rice]

On Nov 11, 2003, at 3:38 PM, Jan Schenkel wrote:

I use Win2PDF for this sort of work, and don't have
this sort of problems, so I'd say that in this case,
PDFCamp is the culprit.
I sent the PDFCamp developers an email about it. I guess it's wise to 
always save and restore the defaultFolder after printing! Who knows 
what other printer drivers might have this problem.

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Re: Questions about experiences

[Graham Samuel]

On Monday, November 10, 2003 4:24 PM, Björnke von Gierke 
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Hello,
I am in the process of writing an article about runrev, and would like
to ask you about two things:
Did you experience that you wanted to make a project, but where unable
to do it with runrev? For example because a technology was not
supported, not fast enough or because it was otherwise not up to the
task.
Well, I am a great fan of RunRev but I have been frustrated by one or two 
bugs (or apparent bugs) which I have not yet found workarounds for. I had 
some difficulty with simple QuickTime movies which didn't perform quite as 
I expected. I abandoned these for animated GIFs and have had some 
difficulty with them too. I guess what I'm saying is that RunRev will 
theoretically do everything I've ever wanted to do, but in practical terms 
sometimes it's hard to get everything to work.

I am also very sympathetic to Richard Gaskin's remarks about printing, and 
have my own specific grumbles. I find it extraordinary that I still can't 
know exactly what the printable area is for the combination of printer and 
media that the user has chosen (I'm not talking about the page size, but 
about the margins of the area within the page where the printing engine can 
actually make a mark). I had to abandon part of a development because of 
this limitation, and the workaround doesn't look so good to the user as I 
would like. Imagine any form of printout where you could allow the user to 
set margins but wouldn't be able to issue a warning if the printing would 
be clipped. (When I grumbled about this some time ago, Scott Raney 
intervened to say that it wasn't possible to provide this info on all 
platforms. I still can't understand how this can be so when other apps seem 
to be able to get this information readily).


DId you realise any projects that you did not think that it would be
possible to do with runrev?
Not so far - but I am very impressed with the range of capabilities 
offered, so I expect to be surprised in the future.

Finally, I would like to say that I cannot see any alternative at all for 
cross-platform development for someone like me (programming background 
going back a long way but the only acquaintance with development on modern 
OSs being through X-talk). So I couldn't do ANY projects which need to be 
delivered on both Mac and Windows if it wasn't for RunRev.

Graham

---
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  

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Windows 95 Compatibility?

[Graham Samuel]

I'm trying to build an app which is giving trouble in Windows 95 and 98 and 
maybe ME, but works flawlessly under Windows XP. (The Mac versions work OK 
too.) Today I noticed that if you look at the properties of the app (the 
.EXE file), under Windows XP you can set the program to work in 'Windows 95 
compatible' mode. I don't really know what this means (I do most of my work 
on Macs) but when I try to run the program after setting this option, all 
the colours go wrong, the cursor appears to be negative (black with a white 
cursor shape in the middle) and some graphics disappear. Can anyone tell me 
what this all means? I don't have a copy of Windows 95 in my current 
location to do proper testing so it might have been useful to be able to 
use this Windows feature if I could make it work.

TIA

Graham

---
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Re: Call for opinions - announcing a new made with RR Game!

[Alex Rice]

On Nov 11, 2003, at 3:40 PM, MisterX wrote:

Check out the latest screenshot
http://www.monsieurx.com/downloads/roulette11.gif
Oops looks like the RR Palette Stack to me!

So is there a URL to check out this game?

Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Mindlube Software | 


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Re: defaultFolder is changed by printer drivers

[Jan Schenkel]

--- Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> On Nov 11, 2003, at 1:10 PM, Alex Rice wrote:
> 
> > 
> 
> 
> > It writes the PDF file OK, but then my otherwise
> well behaved app 
> > starts generating errors. The errors come from my
> revclips external.
> 
> OK found the problem: the PDFCamp printer driver is
> changing the 
> working directory, so after printing using that
> driver "the 
> defaultFolder" has changed to wherever you tell
> PDFCamp to write the 
> PDF file to (Desktop, Documents, wherever).
> 
> This was easy to workaround, however it was quite
> unexpected. Is it a 
> bug with Revolution for allowing it to happen, bug
> with PDFCamp for not 
> restoring the working directory, or both?  Should
> this be a Rev bug 
> report?
> 
> Alex Rice

Hi Alex,

I use Win2PDF for this sort of work, and don't have
this sort of problems, so I'd say that in this case,
PDFCamp is the culprit.

Jan Schenkel.

=
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Re: newbie question: type 3 error

[Jan Schenkel]

--- Matt Ryan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I just recently purchased downloaded Revolution
> Studio 2.1 with the
> intent of converting Hypercard stacks to Revolution
> and then to Windows.
> Whenever I try to convert a stack, I get to the last
> step (build
> distribution) and Revolution "unexpectedly quits
> with a type 3 error".
> The new stack appears as a standalone, but when I
> transfer it to a
> windows machine and open it, windows cannot find the
> application which
> created it. I increased the memory allocation for
> Revolution to 60 MB to
> no avail. Can anyone tell me what might be wrong?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> MTR
> 

Hi Matt,

Sorry to hear your first steps in conversion were not
a success. However, there's good news.
The first thing you need to do, is compact your stack
in HyperCard ; some suggest you should compact it
three times or so, just to make sure.
You can then either open this stack on the Mac version
of Revolution, or you can binhex it, copy the .hqx
file to your Windows machine, and open it directly
from within Revolution.

As you will have to tweak your stack before building a
standalone for Windows, it's best to open it on that
platform anyway, so you can make the necessary
changes.
Since you have allocated more RAM to Revolution, I
asusme you're running the MacOS 7-8-9 version ? Have
you tried downloading and reinstalling the most recent
version 2.1.2 from the Revolution website ?

Hope this helped,

Jan Schenkel.

=
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Call for opinions - announcing a new made with RR Game!

[MisterX]

Hi everyone,

Most of you gamble a license for work! May this be another
success story for you! I have an alternate way for those 
other gamblers (apparently many clients who can be exposed
to RR)!

After a couple day-Revving time, here is introduction of my 
first video game! I'd like to know your impressions and 
ideas if you so graciously oblige! 

Although the screenshot hides the simulator part and makes it
look like a simple video game, it's not really a video game 
but a serious Roulette Simulator...

Check out the latest screenshot
http://www.monsieurx.com/downloads/roulette11.gif

MacOS and *nix versions planned naturally!

This is the first "demo" game before the Pro version is finished.
It will have a win-optimizer with dynamic strategy gameplay... 
Many features to come incl. Neural Networks, professional strategy 
sets, game stats, and there even more serious economic game-theory 
framework plans for later! 

Those who make the best suggestions will win a free version of 
the game version! 

One Pro version might go free if you make a bull-eye suggestion!

Serious beta testers are definitely
 welcome if you promess feedback!

BTW, I'm seeking for one daring scripter/graphic-artist and/or a 
hard-core programmer in C or C++ for a sweepstake gamble.

cheers
Xavier
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defaultFolder is changed by printer drivers

[Alex Rice]

On Nov 11, 2003, at 1:10 PM, Alex Rice wrote:




It writes the PDF file OK, but then my otherwise well behaved app 
starts generating errors. The errors come from my revclips external.
OK found the problem: the PDFCamp printer driver is changing the 
working directory, so after printing using that driver "the 
defaultFolder" has changed to wherever you tell PDFCamp to write the 
PDF file to (Desktop, Documents, wherever).

This was easy to workaround, however it was quite unexpected. Is it a 
bug with Revolution for allowing it to happen, bug with PDFCamp for not 
restoring the working directory, or both?  Should this be a Rev bug 
report?

Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Mindlube Software | 


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Drag and drop between stacks

[Alejandro Tejada]

Hi Rev list members,

Did you have code that shows how to drag and
drop any kind of data between editable stacks? 
(not between stacks converted in applications)

"Any kind" means: images,text fields,sounds,movies,
cards, scripts and other types that I had forget...

Thanks in advance.

Al

=
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Re: Rendezvous, event loops, and why I need SDK docs

[Alex Rice]

On Nov 11, 2003, at 2:14 PM, tuviah snyder wrote:

Embedded Revolution supports access to the main event loop. The idea 
behind embedded Revolution is you would link your external code with 
librev and compile a custom engine. The advantages are

1) no external overhead on Linux.
2) Single file executable
3) Access to event loops.
That's good to know. What is the availability/licensing of Embedded 
Revolution?

I don't see why we can't support access to the event loop for 
externals as well..the external would need to register the callback 
however to avoid any performance problems.
Can you describe the purpose of X_main_loop(), 
X_set_pre_xevent_handler(), and X_set_post_xevent_handler() in 
XCmdGlue.c? Is that what you are referring to in item 3) above, or is 
it something else?

SDK docs would be good, but I fear they would only confirm we have a
lot of work to do to do any useful externals.
We are working on it.  Tim Monroe just wrote an excellent article on  
developing QT externals with Rev, and we plan to extend on some of 
that for our own docs
Is RR providing externals API documentation in addition to a tutorial? 
Not knowing the purpose and usage of most of these functions is the 
main problem for me.

Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Mindlube Software | 


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Re: OS 10.3 no launch Rev docs -- apple script ???

[Richard Gaskin]

Scott Rossi wrote:

> Recently, "Richard Gaskin"  wrote:
> 
>> We've finally gotten to a world in which computers are less expensive than
>> the desk to put them on. :)
> 
> [grimace] It seems like it wasn't that long ago that I paid US$5,000 for a
> 33mHz Quadra 950.  Oh the pain of it all.

The hard part is the furniture.  If I get any more computers I'll have to
buy another 8-foot extension for my desk. :)

-- 
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 Fourth World Media Corporation
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[OT] Linux development (was Re: OS 10.3 no launch Rev docs -- apple script ???)

[Richard Gaskin]

Alex Rice wrote:

>> If you're interested in Linux development it gets even better:  you can
>> pick up a computer with Lindows pre-installed at WalMart for under $200.
> 
> Cool!
> 
>> Things are gonna get weird as Linux gets usable.  Expect radical
>> change in the coming years.
> 
> You probably know this Richard but: Linux on the desktop has been in
> the news a lot lately - in a bad way.

As the old Taoist saying goes:  "The higher you rise, the more visible a
target you become."

The news seems mixed at worst.  It's like Apple (or about anything else):
those who want to see only good or bad stories can find what they're looking
for.

Using news.com and news.google.com as social indicators, the overall news on
Linux seems more positive than not, even with SCO and RedHat:

http://news.search.com/search?version=x&tag=ex.ne.fd.srch.ne&q=linux

http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&edition=us&q=linux&btnG=Search+News

The RedHat decision was as predictable as the collapse of the Soviet
economy.  They make money on services, so cutting off the low-price consumer
distro makes good sense for them.

In the long run it benefits the market as a whole:  While long-time Linux
users are proud that there are so many distros and UIs available, this makes
things confusing for new adopters, which, like Rev's user base, will of
course have to outnumber ol' timers by a huge margin to be successful.  And
with such a changing demographic, elements of the technology's focus will
have to adapt to keep current.

The shakeup now in progress is a natural market process, ultimately
simplifying consumer decisions down to the truly compelling choices. As a
whole, Linux marketshare continues to increase faster than any other.


> While everyone talks about Linux becoming the Desktop equalizer/radicalizer,
> meanwhile I am happy with OS X because Apple has done what people have been
> wanting for 30 years: deliver UNIX with an appealing, easy to use GUI. :-)

For the sort of work I do I still prefer my Mac.  But as a developer, having
a third machine running Lindows opens up many new opportunities in a market
that is still missing software in hundreds of categories.

If you were the type of person who only wants a Web browser, email, and a
Word processor, $200 gets all that and far more.

Sooner or later those customers will want other software goodies, and
Lindows offers a great interface for finding, downloading, and installing
them.  And paying for them too, which is where forward-thinking Rev
developers come in.

-- 
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Re: Rendezvous, event loops, and why I need SDK docs

[tuviah snyder]

>I have asked about whether the external call back to revolution is 
>thread safe, but have gotten no response.  If it is, you can try using 
>something there.
Embedded Revolution supports access to the main event loop. The idea behind embedded 
Revolution is you would link your external code with librev and compile a custom 
engine. The advantages are

1) no external overhead on Linux.
2) Single file executable
3) Access to event loops.

I don't see why we can't support access to the event loop for externals as well..the 
external would need to register the callback however to avoid any performance problems.

>SDK docs would be good, but I fear they would only confirm we have a 
>lot of work to do to do any useful externals.
We are working on it.  Tim Monroe just wrote an excellent article on  developing QT 
externals with Rev, and we plan to extend on some of that for our own docs

Tuviah
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Re: OS 10.3 no launch Rev docs -- apple script ???

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, "Richard Gaskin"  wrote:

> We've finally gotten to a world in which computers are less expensive than
> the desk to put them on. :)

[grimace] It seems like it wasn't that long ago that I paid US$5,000 for a
33mHz Quadra 950.  Oh the pain of it all.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Basics on using Rev as a CGI on Mac OS X

[kee nethery]

There has been a great deal of discussion over the years concerning 
RunRev as a web server CGI and I'm feeling pretty dense because it 
seems way more complicated than what I want or imagined I would need to 
do.

I want to create a standalone app, with a main stack that obviously 
cannot have changes saved to it, and a sub-stack that can have data 
that changes over time.

I want to copy that standalone set of stacks, with their visual 
interface to a Mac OS X web server. I want to be able to run that 
standalone on the server and use the information in it, change the 
information, etc, and at the same time let others access the 
information via a web interface.

I want to post data to the stack from a client web browser, see the 
data in a field in the stack, have scripts parse it, do whatever, and 
then format some HTML or XML or both and send it back to the client.

Seems simple enough to me but all the examples I see involve installing 
an engine and saving the stacks as scripts or unix text files or moving 
the scripts out of the stack or something, I'm just not too sure how 
this relates to just building a stack, accessing data in it, and 
formating an HTML reply.

If this is possible and someone has an example stack that does this 
with setup instructions, I'd love to see it.

If not, if someone knows how to do this, I'd be happy to write up the 
step by step process for non-Unix weenies like me, and have someone 
post it on a web site somewhere.

Help!

Kee Nethery

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Re: OS 10.3 no launch Rev docs -- apple script ???

[Alex Rice]

On Nov 11, 2003, at 1:17 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Who needs Pro?  Unless you're bulding something that integrates with
features specific to the Pro edition, for Rev testing Home works great.
Doesn't XP-Home lack something important like ethernet drivers? I can't 
remember what. Anyways I'm still happy with Windows 2000.

Besides, in the non-Apple world $500 buys a whole computer, OS and all.

If you're interested in Linux development it gets even better:  you 
can pick
up a computer with Lindows pre-installed at WalMart for under $200.
Cool!

Things are gonna get weird as Linux gets usable.  Expect radical 
change in
the coming years.
You probably know this Richard but: Linux on the desktop has been in 
the news a lot lately - in a bad way. Red Had is abandoning the 
Home/SOHO user and going Enterprise only. And the free Redhat Linux is 
now called "Fedora" and has different distribution than the commercial 
Redhat. Redhat's CEO in an interview actually recommended MS Windows 
for Home users (instead of Lindows or Gentoo or something) . Meanwhile 
Novell bought Suse Linux. The claim to support Home/SOHO Linux but 
Novell after all is a business server company. The only major player 
claiming to support Desktop Linux now is IBM. There are lots of smaller 
Home/SOHO distributions of course. Lindows could now be considered a 
major player, I guess.

While everyone talks about Linux becoming the Desktop 
equalizer/radicalizer, meanwhile I am happy with OS X because Apple has 
done what people have been wanting for 30 years: deliver UNIX with an 
appealing, easy to use GUI. :-)

Thankfully, with Rev we can ride the wave no matter which way the 
currents
shift.  Rev has liberated us beyond whatever changes may affect any 
single
OS vendor.  It is its own meta-OS, the most capable of virtual 
machines
Halleluhyah ! (sp?)

Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Mindlube Software | 


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Re: OS 10.3 no launch Rev docs -- apple script ???

[Richard Gaskin]

Alex Rice wrote:

> On Nov 11, 2003, at 11:35 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>> 10.3.1 is released in Software Update.
>> 
>> I couldn't find a list of fixes -- got a URL?
> 
> Since 10.3.0 there have been 2 security updates, XCode update, iSync
> and iTunes updates, and the 10.3.1 update.
> 
> See  about the
> 10.3.1

Thank you.  Once again, VersionTracker comes through.  They're the best.

Which reminds me:  they accept entries for components, so if any of you have
Rev plug-ins you want to make sure are widely used, in addition to RevNet
you'll also want to add them to VersionTracker.  I'll be making entries for
GoRevNet and others once I wrap up a few client projects.

>> It just feels dirty, after paying $450 to get a working version of
>> OS X (10.0 and 10.1 were arguably of beta quality).  $5 billion in
>> cash reserves and no price break for loyal customers
> 
> Boo hoo, you are out the cost of 1 Windows XP Pro license, over a
> period of 4 years?

Who needs Pro?  Unless you're bulding something that integrates with
features specific to the Pro edition, for Rev testing Home works great.

Besides, in the non-Apple world $500 buys a whole computer, OS and all.

If you're interested in Linux development it gets even better:  you can pick
up a computer with Lindows pre-installed at WalMart for under $200.


Lindows has a consumer focus that is giving it an edge over more techie
distros.  Worth looking for you Rev folks interested in exploring the Linux
market.

We've finally gotten to a world in which computers are less expensive than
the desk to put them on. :)

> Or the cost of 1 Red Hat Linux Enterprise License?

If you use newsgroups for support it has the ideal price:  free.  Just
download and go.

As a consumer I'm generally happy with Apple overall.  As a developer,
however, their focus on maintaining high margins over marketshare  (2.2%;
was 2.4 two years ago and 5% in '96) is a serious issue.  Coupled with their
concerted effort to migrate ever more software development in-house at the
expense of third parties, they risk further maginalization until they get
serious about pricing.  Fortunately, the collective wisdom of the BoD seems
strong enough to balance out Jobs' famous "reality distortion field":  I
predict a strong competitive consumer thrust by mid-'04.

And while I have my Cracker Jack crystal ball open, I predict an
Intel-comptible architecture by 2010, with a focus on software just like the
industry's largest company, Microsoft.  It is technically feasible to
deliver the benefits of the Mac experience on Intel hardware, and ultimately
cheaper and more profitable to do than maintaining R&D for single-source
chips.  Hardware focus is driven by personality factors, not technological
constraints; it will pass.

Things are gonna get weird as Linux gets usable.  Expect radical change in
the coming years.

Thankfully, with Rev we can ride the wave no matter which way the currents
shift.  Rev has liberated us beyond whatever changes may affect any single
OS vendor.  It is its own meta-OS, the most capable of virtual machines

-- 
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PDFCamp printer & Revolution app

[Alex Rice]

I have noticed that the PDFCamp printer driver 
  which we recommended to a 
client, is breaking my Revolution standalone on windows.

It writes the PDF file OK, but then my otherwise well behaved app 
starts generating errors. The errors come from my revclips external.

Worst case scenario: PDFCamp is trampling memory of my external, or 
vice-versa. I doubt that. Maybe PDFCamp is changing the defaultFolder 
somehow?

What could a printer driver change in the Revoludtion engine's 
environment?

Can someone please try PDFCamp with your Windows Revolution standalone 
and tell me if you have any problems after printing to that printer?

Thanks,

Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Mindlube Software | 


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Re: Two questions

[Ken Norris]

Hi Tom,

> Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2003 07:55:23 -0500
> From: Thomas J McGrath III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: Two questions

> Are you guys sure that 'send in' will actually work without taxing
> the various systems and processors? Cause if I start using it, you know
> I will break it. ;-)
--
Checkout the Transcript Cookbook in the docs. The first two scripts (99
Bottles of Beer) are supposed to demo the difference between using a repeat
structure and a send-in-time structure. Set up a couple of windows and make
the comparison.

See for yourself if you think it will work for you.

Ken N.

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RE: Multiple-Choice Problems...

[Ken Ray]

> That's pretty much it, though  there is a problem, which appears as I 
> get to the end of the listings in gSourceData. Once there are 
> less than 
> four questions left, a line is left blank, meaning that there is no 
> path for the image in the following questions. So instead of a pretty 
> vocabulary image, there's a blank spot, which repeats until the last 
> item in the list happens to be the randomly-selected "correct" answer.
> 
> I haven't been able to figure out a simple way to run through the 
> complete list without getting this blank spot. Actually, I 
> did think of 
> one way, but have no idea how to do the code- I'm afraid I do 
> fine with 
> small steps, but trying to implement something large gets the 
> better of 
> me. I'm sure there is a much more elegant solution to than what I've 
> already created- unfortunately, I haven't any idea how to proceed!
> 
> Sorry for the long post. I've rambled enough- any ideas from 
> anyone out 
> there in Rev land?

Jason,

The problem is (IMHO) that you're removing the correct answers from the
list so that you "eat away" at your overall list of answers. I would
suggest that you maintain two lists in memory: one list is the one with
all of the possible answers (basically what you read in button 1 -
gSourceData), the other contains the list that gets correct answers
removed when they are used so they won't be used again (I'll call it
'gAvailableData'). 

When you start on a specific drill, you pick a line randomly from
gAvailableData for the correct answer and remove it from gAvailableData.
You then temporarily copy gSourceData into a temporary variable, remove
the correct answer ALSO, leaving you with a temporary variable that only
contains incorrect answers. Randomly pick the other three from this
temporary variable, and run the drill. For each drill you do,
gAvailableData will diminish, but gSourceData will not - thus avoiding
the problem of having not enough data to do a drill.

Hope this helps,

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 


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RE: 2.1.2 announced

[Ken Ray]

> Och noo, be reasonable laddie. That would mean we'd be having 
> to rewrite Revolution in broad scots too, ye ken. For why wad 
> we no be having that, an we translated to californian? It's a 
> braw, bricht nicht the nicht laddie...
> 
> Scots wah hey and other unintelligable noises,

LOL!

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 


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Re: OS 10.3 no launch Rev docs -- apple script ???

[Alex Rice]

On Nov 11, 2003, at 11:35 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
10.3.1 is released in Software Update.
I couldn't find a list of fixes -- got a URL?
Since 10.3.0 there have been 2 security updates, XCode update, iSync 
and iTunes updates, and the 10.3.1 update.

See  about the 
10.3.1

Apple's page for the update at
 
has
no list, and the installer includes no Read Me.

I'll probably upgrade soon myself now that they're past dot-oh.
That seems to be the conservative way - a lot of people are doing that.

  It just
feels dirty, after paying $450 to get a working version of OS X (10.0 
and
10.1 were arguably of beta quality).
Boo hoo, you are out the cost of 1 Windows XP Pro license, over a 
period of 4 years? Or the cost of 1 Red Hat Linux Enterprise License? 
:-)

I don't mind that much. Heck I even got a .Mac membership because I 
want to use Backup.app to do off-site backups to iDisk. Call me a 
cheerleader, I don't care. :-)

"""Is starting all over again worth it? The short answer is "yes." The 
long answer is . . . you'll have to see for yourself. Mac OS X 10.3 - 
reviewed as only Ars Technica can.""" 


The conclusion of the article, in a nutshell is: "10.3 is to 10.2 as 
10.2 was to 10.0-10.1; major improvements, major new features" 


Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Mindlube Software | 


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Re: OS 10.3 no launch Rev docs -- apple script ???

[Richard Gaskin]

Sarah wrote:

> what you were really after was a way
> to set up the relevant file associations in OS 10.3 ...

This is from a drag-and-drop file type utility that will be uploaded to
RevNet when I get time to finish its UI.

The following script relies on a field named "AppleScript" that contains:

   tell application "Finder"
 set tFilePath to "[FILE]"  as alias
 set the creator type of tFilePath to "[CREATOR]"
 set the file type of tFilePath to "[TYPE]"
   end tell


This script takes the path in a field and uses values from a "creator" field
and a "type" field to set the type and creator code.  I haven't run this on
10.3, but it works well in v10.2, with the caveat that file name extensions
apparently take precedence over type and creator code for app associations.
I would be interested in knowing if the functional AppleScript fails under
10.3:

on mouseUp
   put fld "AppleScript" into tScript
   replace "[CREATOR]" with fld "creator" in tScript
   replace "[TYPE]"with fld "type" in tScript
   replace "[FILE]"with UnixFile2Mac(fld "file") in tScript
   replace "[FILE]"with tFile in tScript
   do tScript as AppleScript
   if the result <> quote&fld "TYPE""e then
  answer "AppleScript error" with "Drag"
   end if
end mouseUp

function UnixFile2Mac pFileName
   if char 1 of pFileName = "/" then delete char 1 of pFileName
   replace ":" with "<4WSlashPlaceHolder>" in pFileName
   replace "/" with ":" in pFileName
   replace "<4WSlashPlaceHolder>" with "/" in pFileName
   --
   if IsOSX() then
  set the itemDel to ":"
  if item 1 of pFileName <> "Volumes" then
 put line 1 of the drives &":" before pFileName
  end if
   end if
   --
   return pFileName
end UnixFile2Mac

function IsOSX
   if the platform is not "MacOS" then return false
   get the systemversion
   set the itemdel to "."
   if item 1 of it >= 10 then return true
   return false
end IsOSX


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Re: OS 10.3 no launch Rev docs -- apple script ???

[Richard Gaskin]

Alex Rice wrote:

> 10.3.1 is released in Software Update.

I couldn't find a list of fixes -- got a URL?

Apple's page for the update at
 has
no list, and the installer includes no Read Me.

I'll probably upgrade soon myself now that they're past dot-oh.  It just
feels dirty, after paying $450 to get a working version of OS X (10.0 and
10.1 were arguably of beta quality).  $5 billion in cash reserves and no
price break for loyal customers


   Q: What's the difference between a big software development company
  and a small one?

   A: The small one releases beta versions marked as "beta", while the
  big one releases beta versions as "1.0."

:)

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Re: Window Resizing Head-scratcher...

[Richard Gaskin]

Ken Norris wrote:

> Mac menus are really button emulations, not the real thing.

For clarification, Mac menus are even more or a "real thing" than the
Windows counterparts.  The buttons are used merely for storage, analagous to
SuperCard's menu objects.  Both Rev and SC use their respective storage for
menu and menu items names to build the menubar using the OS API.

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Re: OS 10.3 no launch Rev docs -- apple script ???

[Alex Rice]

On Nov 11, 2003, at 11:08 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
You may be able to work around it, but if maintaining appropriate file 
type
associations is among the other problems frustrating folks with 10.3 
(I'm
waiting for v10.3.1 in light of the many reports) you can rest assured 
that
Apple will recognize that as critical and issue a patch ASAP.
10.3.1 is released in Software Update.
FWIW I don't think I have had a single problem with OS X 10.3
Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Mindlube Software | 


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to make machines that are disposable  -Ani DiFranco
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Re: OS 10.3 no launch Rev docs -- apple script ???

[Richard Gaskin]

Brian Thomas wrote:

> A number of beta testers reported problems with the Monks document
> not launching at first such as this:
> 
> "1) After doing the install on os x (10.2.8) I got a dialog saying that no
> application was selected to open the "If Monks Had Macs" document. I
> played around with Sophie and the next time I tried double clicking the
> IMHM document the app opened without problems. There is something wrong
> here."
> 
> I figured out how to solve this on OS 10.2 by having the
> Installermaker installer automatically launch first the application
> and then, once the application was open, it automatically launched
> the Monks document and the System handled this correctly.  This does
> not work in 10.3 The system just reports:
> 
> "There is no default application specified to open the document "If
> Monks had Macs"
> 
> cancel choose application
> 
> Our app, of course, is not on the approved list.

This sounds like an installer issue, or possibly an OS issue.  If you can
verify (ResEdit) that the type and creator code of the installed file are
set properly, and if the file name exension matches the value described in
your info.plist, then it would seem your file's good and the installer has
not monkeyed with your creator code, leaving the OS as the culprit.

If it is the OS, the problem should be evident with at least some other
apps.  Try checking the Apple support discussion forums to see if others are
reporting this among the many critical errors reported in v10.3.

You may be able to work around it, but if maintaining appropriate file type
associations is among the other problems frustrating folks with 10.3 (I'm
waiting for v10.3.1 in light of the many reports) you can rest assured that
Apple will recognize that as critical and issue a patch ASAP.

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newbie question: type 3 error

[Matt Ryan]

 

 

 

I just recently purchased downloaded Revolution Studio 2.1 with the
intent of converting Hypercard stacks to Revolution and then to Windows.
Whenever I try to convert a stack, I get to the last step (build
distribution) and Revolution "unexpectedly quits with a type 3 error".
The new stack appears as a standalone, but when I transfer it to a
windows machine and open it, windows cannot find the application which
created it. I increased the memory allocation for Revolution to 60 MB to
no avail. Can anyone tell me what might be wrong?

 

Thanks,

 

MTR

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Re: Interfacing RunRev with C/C++ Code

[Richard Gaskin]

Rob Cozens wrote:

>>> 1. Can RunRev be interfaced with C/C++ code?
>> Yes there is an article on it, in this months MacTech.
> 
> Do you happen to have a URL for the article, Tuviah?

MacTech doesn't generally post articles at their site.  But Tim Monroe's
article series on using Rev is way cool, and worth ordering back issues.



And it certainly doesn't hurt RunRev any for MacTech to see strong interest
in Rev-related articles.  If you like Tim's Rev articles drop the editors a
note of appreciation.

There may be at least one more Rev article in MacTech coming soon...

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Re: string cleaning

[Alex Rice]

On Nov 10, 2003, at 5:35 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

Looks OK to me, Alex; but why not just use:

function printableCharString pString
 local tRes, c
 repeat for each character c in pString
   if c < space or c > "~" then next repeat
   put c after tRes
 end repeat
 return tRes
end printableCharString
Rob here is the same function, but 32% faster!

function printableCharString2 pString
  -- \xxx are octal character codes in regex
  -- keep octal \040 - \176 (space - "~")
  return replaceText(pString, "([\000-\037]|[\177-\777])+", empty)
end printableCharString2
Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Mindlube Software | 


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Re: convert md5digest to HEX?

[kee nethery]

At 9:26 pm -0800 10/11/03, kee nethery wrote:

Is there a way to use baseConvert or binaryDecode to convert an 
md5digest result to hex?
I use this function:

function hexDigest pvalue
  local tRes
  put md5Digest(pValue) into tMD5
  get binaryDecode("H*",tMD5,tRes)
  return tRes
end hexDigest
Excellent, thanks to Dar Richard and Dave!

Base64 doesn't work because I need it to be compatible with other 
systems that return md5digests as hex.

It gives the same results as the perl md5_hex method.
I think that is exactly what I am trying to duplicate.

Thanks everyone.

Kee

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Re: Interfacing RunRev with C/C++ Code

[Rob Cozens]

 > 1. Can RunRev be interfaced with C/C++ code?
Yes there is an article on it, in this months MacTech.
Do you happen to have a URL for the article, Tuviah?

Is this Mac OS specific?
--
Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: Questions about experiences

[tuviah snyder]

>- You cannot interactively create objects within a group unless the
>  editBg of the group is on, but while in that mode the scroll bars
>  and anything outside of the group is hidden, so that's not an option.
This sounds very useful, not only for drawing programs but for writing
something like a report generator where objects would need to be clipped to
page parts like headers, footers, ect. I guess we would need to add another
property, but better to bring this up on the improve-list.

Tuviah

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Interfacing RunRev with C/C++ Code

[tuviah snyder]

> 1. Can RunRev be interfaced with C/C++ code?
Yes there is an article on it, in this months MacTech. I'm going to use
parts of it for our own external tutorial.

> In this project we would want to use RunRev to build a GUI and then
> send messages (via TCP/IP) to a back-end engine written in C/C++
> which may or may not be running on the same machine.
Yes.

Tuviah

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Re: Questions about experiences

[Richard Gaskin]

Björnke von Gierke wrote:

> I am in the process of writing an article about runrev, and would like
> to ask you about two things:
> 
> Did you experience that you wanted to make a project, but where unable
> to do it with runrev? For example because a technology was not
> supported, not fast enough or because it was otherwise not up to the
> task.
> 
> DId you realise any projects that you did not think that it would be
> possible to do with runrev?

In most cases my experience has been the opposite: things I can do in Rev
that were impossible elsewhere.  Productivity is tops on that list, but in
terms of language features I can say this:  I've ported a lot of projects
from other xTalks, and most of those depended on a small army of externals.
In nearly every case I was able to replace the externals with native
Transcript handlers with no noticeable difference in execution time.

As for limitations, the only thing I haven't been able to build in Rev is
the equivalent of SuperCard's SampleDraw example application, which is sort
of a very basic MacDraw.  A lot of my apps need a drawing environment for
diagrams and such, and at first glance it would seem Rev should be able to
rival Visio in this regard.  At the moment, not so:

- Line, polygon, and arc objects cannot have their points interactively
edited as with any traditional drawing program.  All objects only have the
handles for the bounding box, but those three object types require
special-casing their handle routines to get a true drawing program feel.  A
scripted workaround for polygon points is in Rev, but it doesn't have quite
the same feel as traditional drawing program interactions or even the same
as any native handles, and the native bounding box handles are still present
which feel a bit wonky.

- Some common drawing pane interactions are not possible.  The way to make a
drawing pane in Rev is to make a group with scroll bars and set its
boundingRect property to determine the size of your document ("page").  But
this approach has some drawbacks currently:

   - You cannot interactively create objects within a group unless the
 editBg of the group is on, but while in that mode the scroll bars
 and anything outside of the group is hidden, so that's not an option.

   - You cannot drag-select groups within your drawing pane group.  To
 allow a group to act as a drawing pane you need to first set its
 cantSelect property to true, so that while the pointer tool is
 active the group will not be selected but the objects within it
 will be.You will also have to turn on the selectGroupedControls
 property to allow selection of your objects within the drawing
 pane group.   However, if you group objects within your drawing pane
 since you have the selectGroupedControls on you can only drag-select
 with individual objects.  If you turn that property off and then
 drag-select, since your drawing pane is itself a group the
 selection marquee fails to select any objects within the drawing
 pane group.

- Printing a group is difficult.  In a drawing program it's common to have a
document larger than the window, and sometimes larger than a single page.
With scrolling groups the first part is easy, but printing poses special
challenges.  The only solution I've found is a rather complex script which
copies the group to an offscreen printing window, removes the scroll bars,
then proceeds to adjust the group's scroll for each page's worth of content,
printing as it goes.  In SuperCard printing such a document window is simply
"print this card", and the scrollbar hiding and pagination are taken care of
automatically.

In all fairness, Tuviah has expressed an interest in addressing these issues
('cept printing, though I feel it's worth pursuing), and with any luck
they'll go away with the next major revision.  But since you asked, that's
been the only type of application I've needed to build that I couldn't make
easily in Rev.

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Re: Two questions

[Richard Gaskin]

Thomas J McGrath III wrote:

> I am not used to the send in (time) structure. So, you and Richard are
> suggesting it and it does not use up processor time???
> I remember 'too much recursion' in SC and as such have stayed away from
> complex time loops etc.
> :-) Are you guys sure that 'send in' will actually work without taxing
> the various systems and processors? Cause if I start using it, you know
> I will break it. ;-)

The "send  in " construct isn't using a loop but rather a timer
mechanism similar to Mark Lucas' timer externals for SC.  While there is
some modest overhead internally for keeping track of pending messages it's
happening in highly-optimized compiled C++ code so it's baely measurable at
all.

The bigger processing hit is the time it takes to receive and process a
pending message.  With any such polling mechanism most of the time you will
not do anything, so taking as little time as possible for doing nothing is
critical.

With Rev, testing a "send" command and an "if" statement takes about 0.037
MILLIseconds on my old 500MHz G4.  On my 1.3GHz Celeron it takes takes even
less.

Here's the script I posted that I used to measure the overhead:

on mouseUp
   global gSaveScreenRect
   put the screenRect into gSaveScreenRect
   put 1 into n
   put the millisecs into t
   --
   repeat n
  send "checkResolution" to me
   end repeat
   --
   put (the millisecs - t ) / n
end mouseUp

on checkResolution
   global gSaveScreenRect
   if the screenrect<> gSaveScreenRect then
  answer "it changed"
   end if
end checkResolution


There are a few limitations Transcript imposes that are different from other
xTalks, such as not being able to overload bult-in commands.  But as you'll
find if you do more benchmarking, such modest sacrifices pay big dividends
in streamlining script execution (when was the last time you read a post
here about a need to overload a built-in command?).

Another big advantage is Transcript's pre-compilation.  Scripts processing
takes two passes:  one to convert the scripting language into efficient
bytecode, and a second to execute the bytecode.  In most xTalks scripts have
no processing done until execution.  But in Transcript (and ToolBook too)
scripts are tokenized into bytecode when the script editor is closed or when
an object is loaded into the message path, so the hardest work is done in
advance of execution.

Moreover, the form of bytecode Transcript uses is said to be more
efficiently structured than even Java's, making execution even faster.

And of course with a 4GL most of the code being executed is highly-optimized
C++, with the scripts being merely glue between these compiled routines.

The net result of these interpreter design elements is a very-high-level
language that in many cases rivals, and sometimes outperforms, lower-level
languages.

And when you add in ultra-effecient language extensions like "repeat for
each" things only get faster.

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Re: Menu

[Robert Presender]

Thanks Ken.  I originally used that in the message box but the menubar 
didn't delete in browse mode as I  expected.  Works ok as a handler.
On Tuesday, November 11, 2003, at 01:27 AM, Ken Ray wrote:
snip

Message: 5

You should just be able to say:

  delete group (the menubar of this stack)

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Re: Two questions

[Thomas J McGrath III]

OK Ken,
I am not used to the send in (time) structure. So, you and Richard are 
suggesting it and it does not use up processor time???
I remember 'too much recursion' in SC and as such have stayed away from 
complex time loops etc.
:-) Are you guys sure that 'send in' will actually work without taxing 
the various systems and processors? Cause if I start using it, you know 
I will break it. ;-)

Thanks again,

P.S. send me a screenshot or sample stack for that graphic problem you 
have.

Tom

On Nov 11, 2003, at 12:16 AM, Ken Norris wrote:

Hi Tom,

Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 17:35:37 -0500
From: Thomas J McGrath III <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Two questions

Again, Jason's answer will fix it if they quit out and restart my app.
But I was hoping for a good way to check during runtime and not when
reopening my app after the end user screws it up. Once screwed up it
does not go back with out Jason's solution. and in my opinion that
would be a bug.
--
I see your point, i.e., you think the engine should dynamically detect 
a
screen res change and adjust the geometry during runtime. I like it, 
and it
would certainly be an improvement. In fairness, though, even some 
fairly
modern games I have won't do that while they're running. Their 
solution is
to simply block access to such things while running, i.e., you can't 
change
screen res unless you pause the game (or Quit) and go do it. When it 
resumes
it checks such things and adjusts the geometry at that time.

In the meantime, Richard's suggestion of implementing a "send in 
(time)"
structure seems a good solution. That's what it's for, so that such 
things
can happen with no significant taxing of the processor, such that
performance isn't affected. That structure is a boon to this type of
hyper-level dev tool, because it allows a unique modicum of
behind-the-scenes multitasking. It allows us to do some things which 
were
previously impossible in this venue.

HTH,
Ken N.
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Thomas J McGrath III
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220 Drake Rd.
Bethel Park, PA 15102
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Re: 2.1.2 announced

[Heather Williams]

> Recently, "Richard Gaskin"  wrote:
> 
>> Will there be a version localized for Californians?:
>> 
>> "Dude, these warez are way cool.
>> Full-on rockin' power like a south swell under your board.
>> Check it -- you'll be so stoked."
> 
> Dude.
> 
> (translation: "Mr. Gaskin, I wholeheartedly agree with your amusing and yet
> most eloquent post to the list.")

Och noo, be reasonable laddie. That would mean we'd be having to rewrite
Revolution in broad scots too, ye ken. For why wad we no be having that, an
we translated to californian? It's a braw, bricht nicht the nicht laddie...

Scots wah hey and other unintelligable noises,

Heather

> 
> Regards,
> 
> Scott Rossi

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Re: Questions about experiences

[T. R. Ponn]

Björnke von Gierke wrote

Did you experience that you wanted to make a project, but where unable 
to do it with runrev? For example because a technology was not 
supported, not fast enough or because it was otherwise not up to the task?

DId you realise any projects that you did not think that it would be 
possible to do with runrev?


Being an antique HC lover since version 1.0 hit the streets, I entered 
into my latest project with many fears about limitations.  I mean, after 
all, it IS *only* an xTalk!  Wow...I am completely blown away with what 
I've been able to do.  So far, I've found NO limits with Rev.  I'm sure 
I'll hit them sooner or later...but to date...nadda!

I have 2 associates who warned me about wasting time...one is in love 
with Linux & JAVA, the other Windows/ C++/ VB.  At every turn, I heard 
the same doubts from them (echoed in my head, as well).  Between RunRev 
and the wonderful ppl on this list, my project is complete (well, 
perhaps it will never be done ;-) ).  My associates are now keenly 
interested in this RunRev IDE! :-D

BTW...this took 6 months from a cold start (except for the HC 
background), and Rev1.1.1.  You can download a copy of our app from our 
website.  There are 3 standalones there...Mac PPC, Windows and Linux. 
It's rather specialized SW...meant to control an embedded system...so 
it's real meaning may be lost on those not familiar with the embedded world.

I am totally and completely in Love with Rev.

Best Regards,

Tim Ponn

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Re: Image advice please

[Thomas J McGrath III]

Ken,

Send it on.
At least Graphics are something I know quite a lot about.
Tom
On Nov 10, 2003, at 11:45 PM, Ken Norris wrote:
Hi Ken,

Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2003 18:11:57 -0600
From: "Ken Ray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Image advice please

It would really help if you could post (or send to one of us) a
screenshot of what you are talking about. It's kind of hard to
visualize, even though I think you've done an admirable job describing
the problem. That may be why no one has responded. :-)
-
Yes, I know. Describing unique graphic manipulation is nearly 
impossible
with words.

One of these days I hope we'll be able to post screen shots directly 
to this
list. Can you imagine the dynamics of what a help that would be?

In the meantime I don't really have a place to post it, but if someone 
could
look, I'll send it offlist as an attachment.

Thanks,
Ken N.
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Revolution Seminar?

[Heather Williams]

Dear listees,

We are considering holding a paid Revolution seminar, in conjunction with
attending MacWorld in San Francisco in January.

If such a thing were to come about, how many of you would be interested/able
to attend? What topics would you like to see discussed?

If you think you would be likely to attend, please send an email to me,
personally, NOT to the list, [EMAIL PROTECTED], with "seminar" in the
subject line.

If you have an idea for a topic you'd like to see addressed, feel free to
post to the list, it should be an interesting discussion.

Regards,

Heather
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Re: Interfacing RunRev with C/C++ Code

[Pierre Sahores]

Le mar 11/11/2003 Ã 11:31, David Burgun a Ãcrit :
> Hi,
> 
> I am evaluating using RunRev for a project and I need to find out the 
> following:
> 
> 1. Can RunRev be interfaced with C/C++ code?

Yes. Ask directly to Tuviah Snyder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> how to link C/C++
libs to Rev. As the Rev's technical manager, Tuviah is using
extensivelly this way to build Rev's SQL databases connectors and such
kind of C/C++ Rev's extentions.
> 
> 2. If so, could someone point me to some documentation tell how it is acheived?
> 
> In this project we would want to use RunRev to build a GUI and then 
> send messages (via TCP/IP) to a back-end engine written in C/C++ 
> which may or may not be running on the same machine.

It's OK too : Rev is full featured to handle TCP/IP, UDP and Unix
sockets and connections.
> 
> 3. Is the above feasable using RunRev?

Yes.
> 
> I have downloaded the trail version and have satisfied myself that it 
> will be the best choice for a GUI tool.
> 
> Thanks in advance for your help
> Dave
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Interfacing RunRev with C/C++ Code

[David Burgun]

Hi,

I am evaluating using RunRev for a project and I need to find out the 
following:

1. Can RunRev be interfaced with C/C++ code?

2. If so, could someone point me to some documentation tell how it is acheived?

In this project we would want to use RunRev to build a GUI and then 
send messages (via TCP/IP) to a back-end engine written in C/C++ 
which may or may not be running on the same machine.

3. Is the above feasable using RunRev?

I have downloaded the trail version and have satisfied myself that it 
will be the best choice for a GUI tool.

Thanks in advance for your help
Dave
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Re: convert md5digest to HEX?

[Dave Cragg]

At 9:26 pm -0800 10/11/03, kee nethery wrote:

Is there a way to use baseConvert or binaryDecode to convert an 
md5digest result to hex?
I use this function:

function hexDigest pvalue
  local tRes
  put md5Digest(pValue) into tMD5
  get binaryDecode("H*",tMD5,tRes)
  return tRes
end hexDigest
It gives the same results as the perl md5_hex method.

Cheers
Dave
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Multiple-Choice Problems...

[Jason Rippetoe]

The fateful moment has arrived- when I reveal to the list actual 
scripts I have written, showing the true depth of my coding abilities. 
Despite the shallowness of these snippets and the possibility that some 
of you more educated programmers might snicker a bit at my naiveté, I'm 
quite proud of the fact that I was able to cobble this together on my 
own and that it actually WORKS!

Well, make that "works up to a point." I'm not so proud of myself I 
won't ask for help.

Here's the background-

This is a foreign language vocabulary drill program. It uses audio bits 
and images in a multiple-choice format- the user clicks a button to 
hear the audio of the vocab word, then selects an answer from one of 
four images. If the image corresponds with the audio, it displays an 
affirmative graphic, if it doesn't a negative graphic appears.

I'll present the scripts I use to get to this point before I give you 
the problem I'm facing right now. For development purposes, I have this 
in three buttons, but button one would likely be in an openStack 
handler in a finished product, since it only needs to occur once. 
Button two could not be a button at all or combined with button three, 
since it never actually gets pressed by the user. I had them separate 
to keep actions clear in my mind while developing. Hope it doesn't 
confuse the issue.

Button one starts off the show, taking the comma-delimited data from a 
field ("SourceData"), then putting it into a variable. Each line in the 
field is two paths- one to the audio file and the other to the 
corresponding graphic. Forgive me if there are global variables that 
aren't used in every handler... I've changed them so many times as I've 
worked on this that there are a few unused, I think.

global gSourceData, gRandomLines
on mouseUp
  put field "SourceData" into gSourceData
  put empty into gRandomLines
send mouseUp to button "Button 2"
end MouseUp
The next button figures out how many lines are in the gSourceData, and 
puts it into a variable. Then grabs a random one of those lines as the 
correct answer, then three other lines to represent incorrect answers. 
Since the lines are deleted from the gSourceData in the process, the 
"wrong" answers are added back to gSourceData so that they can be used 
as answers again. The "correct" answer is removed so that it does not 
appear as a correct answer again, however, it cannot be used as an 
incorrect answer either, which is a shortcoming of my script.

global gSourceData, gSourceLines, gRandomLines, gTempSource, 
gSelection, gSolution, gAltSolutions,
on mouseUp
  put empty into gAltSolutions
  put the number of lines of gSourceData into gSourceLines -- If there 
are 10 lines, gSourceLines will be "10"
  put random(gSourceLines) into gSelection
  put line gSelection of gSourceData into line 1 of gRandomLines
  delete line gSelection of gSourceData
  put gRandomLines into gSolution
  put empty into gRandomLines
  repeat with x = 1 to 3 times
put the number of lines of gSourceData into gSourceLines -- If 
there are 10 lines, gSourceLines will be "10"
put random(gSourceLines) into gSelection
put line gSelection of gSourceData into line x of gRandomLines
delete line gSelection of gSourceData
  end repeat
  put gRandomLines into gAltSolutions
  put gRandomLines&return&gSourceData into gSourceData
end mouseUp

The final button takes the correct and incorrect answers and assigns 
them to one of four positions on the screen. It is pressed by the user 
to get a new correct answer to advance the program.

global gSourceData, gSourceLines, gRandomLines, gTempSource, 
gSelection, gSolution, gAltSolutions, gRandomImage1, gRandomImage2, 
gRandomImage3, gRandomImage4

on mouseUp
  put field "gImage Source" into gImageSource
  put empty into gRandomImage1
  put empty into gRandomImage2
  put empty into gRandomImage3
  put empty into gRandomImage4
  repeat with x = 1 to 4 times
put the number of lines of gImageSource into gImageSourceLines -- 
If there are 10 lines, gSourceLines will be "10"
put random(gImageSourceLines) into gImageSelection
put line gImageSelection of gImageSource into line x of gImageLines
delete line gImageSelection of gImageSource
  end repeat
   -- Set the correct answer
  set the fileName of player "Question" to item 1 of line 1 of gSolution
  put line 1 of gImageLines into gRandomImage1
  set the fileName of gRandomImage1 to item 2 of line 1 of gSolution
   -- Set the Alt Selection 1
set the fileName of player "Alt1" to item 1 of line 1 of 
gAltSolutions
  put line 2 of gImageLines into gRandomImage2
  set the fileName of gRandomImage2 to item 2 of line 1 of gAltSolutions
   -- Set the Alt Selection 2
set the fileName of player "Alt2" to item 1 of line 2 of 
gAltSolutions
  put line 3 of gImageLines into gRandomImage3
  set the fileName of gRandomImage3 to item 2 of line 2 of gAltSolutions
   -- Set the Alt Selection 3
set the fileName of player "Alt3" to item 1 of line

Re: convert md5digest to HEX?

[Richard Gaskin]

kee nethery wrote:

> Is there a way to use baseConvert or binaryDecode to convert an
> md5digest result to hex?

Would base64 do?

  put base64encode(md5digest("somestring"))

-- 
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 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
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