Re: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

Yup, happening over here too. :)

Valetia


Christopher Mitchell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Has anyone else experienced the "previous" and "next" card keyboard
> shortcuts going by 2? so it jumps from card 1 to 3 to 5... and back to
> 3 to 5.  Everytime I leave the property inspector and click on the
> stack to unselect objects, then click command 3, it jumps 2 cards ahead
> - until I've cycled through the stack a few times then it goes back to
> one.
> 
> Hope this hasn't been in the archives, but searching anything with part
> of the string being "card" turns up a lot of false hits.
> 
> Yours,
> Chris
> 
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Re: Rotating an image

[Frank Leahy]

Jim,

Here's my RotateImage function, hope it helps.

This assumes you've got an image on your card called "Current Image".

In my version of this function, I first scale the image down to a 
thumbnail size so the user can see what image I'm working on, then I 
call lock screen, then I do the rotation code here.  After the rotation 
is complete I create a new thumbnail of the rotated image and then call 
unlock screen.  This way the user only sees the two thumbnails, never 
the intermediate larger images.

on RotateImage theFileName, direction
  put "binfile:" & theFileName into urlCmd
  put URL urlCmd into image "Current Image"
  put the formattedHeight of image "Current Image" into fh
  put the formattedWidth of image "Current Image" into fw
  if direction = "left" then
rotate image "Current Image" by 90
  else if direction = "right" then
rotate image "Current Image" by -90
  end if
  choose browse tool
  put the rect of image "Current Image" into imageRect
  set the itemDelimiter to ","
  if fw > fh then
put fw - fh into delta
put delta div 2 into theLeftMargin
put delta - theleftMargin into theRightMargin
add theLeftMargin to item 1 of imageRect
subtract theRightMargin from item 3 of imageRect
  else if fw < fh then
put fh - fw into delta
put delta div 2 into theTopMargin
put delta - theTopMargin into theBottomMargin
add theTopMargin to item 2 of imageRect
subtract theBottomMargin from item 4 of imageRect
  end if
  crop image "Current Image" to imageRect
  -- Put whatever jpeg quality level you want here,
  -- but it probably makes sense to use a qualityLevel of 100 for 
rotation
  put 100 into qualityLevel
  set the jpegQuality to qualityLevel
  set the paintCompression to "jpeg"
  export image "Current Image" to URL ("binfile:" & theFileName) as JPEG
  put the result into theResult -- you could check this if you wanted to
  set the fileName of image "Current Image" to empty
end RotateImage

-- Frank Leahy

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The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

is there a short list of basic fonts?
so the standalone user can chose
without being overwhammed.
Cross platform fonts was a nightmare because there where no free fonts 
freely avalaible for Windows, Macintosh and Linux.

But thanks to Bitstream, things are changing.

Bitstream decided to deliver freely with a gnu licence the vera font ; it 
is a full set (serif sans and mono, roman italic and bold) of trueptype 
fonts. These font are of a very high level of readability, even at 9 or 10 
points. They equal or surpasse the best "enhanced screen" font that where 
already on the market.

These font are freely avalaible for commercial use.

It could an opportunity for Revolution to embedd these fonts in all 
versions of Revolution.

Claude Lemmel
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Re: [ANN] POP library released

[Pierre Sahores]

Many Thanks, Sarah, for sharing this so great Pop library with all of 
us !!!

Stored for future use :-)

Best Regards from Paris, Pierre Sahores

100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
Pro:   +33 1 41 60 52 68
Dom:   +33 1 64 45 05 33
Fax:   +33 1 64 45 05 33
Inspection académique de Seine-Saint-Denis
Applications et SGBD ACID SQL (WEB et PGI)
Penser et produire "delta de productivité"
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Re: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution

[Mark MacKenzie]

Just went to Bitstream and searched the whole site and then just within 
the fonts for "Vera" and came up with zero results for the font but 
plenty of hits within news releases.  However, the news releas stuff 
seemed to be useless.

I remain very interested in seeing this font but at the moment can't 
find it.  I will try a www search and see what happens.  Perhaps 
Bitstream as a commercial entity doesn't want too much publicity for a 
free font on its web site.

Mark MacKenzie

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Cross platform fonts was a nightmare because there where no free fonts 
freely avalaible for Windows, Macintosh and Linux.

But thanks to Bitstream, things are changing.

Bitstream decided to deliver freely with a gnu licence the vera font ; 
it is a full set (serif sans and mono, roman italic and bold) of 
trueptype fonts. These font are of a very high level of readability, 
even at 9 or 10 points. They equal or surpasse the best "enhanced 
screen" font that where already on the market.

These font are freely avalaible for commercial use.

It could an opportunity for Revolution to embedd these fonts in all 
versions of Revolution.

Claude Lemmel


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Re: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution

[Mark MacKenzie]

Okay, after chasing a web search back to Bitstream the following URL 
will show you screen samples of the Vera font.

http://bitstream.com/categories/products/fonts/vera/

Mark

Mark MacKenzie wrote:

Just went to Bitstream and searched the whole site and then just 
within the fonts for "Vera" and came up with zero results for the font 
but plenty of hits within news releases.  However, the news releas 
stuff seemed to be useless.

I remain very interested in seeing this font but at the moment can't 
find it.  I will try a www search and see what happens.  Perhaps 
Bitstream as a commercial entity doesn't want too much publicity for a 
free font on its web site.

Mark MacKenzie

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Re: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution

[Ian Wood]

It looks very readable, but note the phrase 'will be released'.

Ian

On 7 Feb 2004, at 13:19, Mark MacKenzie wrote:

Okay, after chasing a web search back to Bitstream the following URL 
will show you screen samples of the Vera font.

http://bitstream.com/categories/products/fonts/vera/

Mark

Mark MacKenzie wrote:

Just went to Bitstream and searched the whole site and then just 
within the fonts for "Vera" and came up with zero results for the 
font but plenty of hits within news releases.  However, the news 
releas stuff seemed to be useless.

I remain very interested in seeing this font but at the moment can't 
find it.  I will try a www search and see what happens.  Perhaps 
Bitstream as a commercial entity doesn't want too much publicity for 
a free font on its web site.

Mark MacKenzie

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Re: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution

[Toma Tasovac]

the fonts HAVE been released, you were just looking at the wrong place

http://www.gnome.org/fonts/

On Feb 7, 2004, at 3:08 PM, Ian Wood wrote:

It looks very readable, but note the phrase 'will be released'.
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Re: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution

[Klaus Major]

Hi all,

the fonts HAVE been released, you were just looking at the wrong place

http://www.gnome.org/fonts/
just installed them here on OS X and they look great, even in 9 pt on a
1600*1200 screen :-)
Will have to test on windows tomorrow...
I MUST see before i believe ;-)
It looks very readable,
It definitvely IS readable, even in small sizes :-)

Regards

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.major-k.de
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Re: Windows Application Icon

[Mark Brownell]

On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 10:06  PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

Hi Mark,

Did you use the program I mentioned on my site called:
QTam Bitmap to Icon
(free trial at:)
http://shareit1.element5.com/ 
programs.html?productid=134460&language=English

It generates only ONE icon. 32x32 at 4 bit. That's it. It's all RR can  
use.
No more, no less. I believe RR has announced the next version should do
better icons for XP.

You can only use this ONE icon when you build a standalone.

best,

Chipp
Have you had any success while developing on XP Pro with it? Yes I used  
this program all morning,  afternoon, and night.  No joy... I did get a  
25+ kbt icon to work.

mb

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Re: fixedLineHeight = a great help

[J. Landman Gay]

On 2/7/04 12:46 AM, Christopher Mitchell wrote:

fixedlineheight and adjustment of the lineHeight value has made a huge 
difference.  Thanks for pointing this out, even the Hebrew font looks 
reasonably well placed now!
Glad it worked out for you. For the record: when I am not so tired and 
my brain is more functional, I'd have referred to the "textheight" 
rather than the "lineheight". There is no property called "lineheight". 
The regulars probably knew what I meant, but since you are new to Rev, I 
thought I'd better correct myself.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Manipulating Old Dates

[Rob Cozens]

Several months ago I had a conversation with Ken Ray about the 
shortcomings of Transcript's date manipulation commands when applied 
to dates more than half a century old (or in the future).  I was 
reminded of the issue when Douglas McKay wrote to tell me Serendipity 
Library's validDate function did not work for the date he entered.

So I created a stack, a button, and a handler:

on mouseUp
ask "Enter a date:"
convert it to dateItems
put "The converted date is"&&it
end mouseUp
I took a day, Feb. 8, and ran the handler several times, changing the 
year by a decade each time.

"2/8/44" yields "1944,8,2...
"2/8/34" yields "2034,8,2...
"2/8/1934" yields "2034,8,2...
The first two results are predictable, as the centuryCutoff property 
defaults to 35.  The third result suggests to me that all date 
conversion uses seconds as an intermediate conversion format (and 
probably that is why one can add to the seconds, days, and months and 
get a correct date WITHIN THE RANGE OF THE CENTURY CUTOFF).

So just how does one work around this shortcoming, especially when 
dealing with current & past dates concurrently?  For example, I have 
a stack that charts biorhythms from any date based on the subject's 
dob.  Normally, biorhythms are charted from a current date a few 
months into the future; so one would expect the starting date to work 
with a centuryCutoff of 35 (until 2036).  But what of birth dates? 
Again, biorhythms are normally charted for living persons, not 
historical figures; but even so there are people alive today that 
could have been born in the 19th, 20th, or 21st centuries.

How does one deal with these issues given Transcript's date handling commands?

And isn't the centuryCutoff property setting developers up for "baby 
Y2K" conversion issues as the default centuryCutoff approaches?

When Ken & I spoke, we discussed the need for Julian date handlers in 
Transcript.  I have Julian date routines in my old FORTRAN & PL/1 
libraries.  Is it time they were incorporated into Serendipity 
Library?

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: Application Generators

[Jim Carwardine]

I wrote an eBook creator in 1988 in HC called BookBuilder which was way
ahead of its time, but included all the multimedia available at the time.
It never went commercial because nobody knew what to do with it.  Doing the
same thing in RR is entirely possible (and much easier)... Jim

on 2/4/04 5:29 PM, michael wrote:

> A project I have planned is to develop an application generator, such as
> an eBook Creator, that would compile a new executable, preferrably
> cross-platform.  What I am still hazy on is if I can use revolution to
> do this, both technically and legitimately.
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-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.


Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
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Re: Application Generators

[Richard Gaskin]

Jim Carwardine wrote:

> I wrote an eBook creator in 1988 in HC  Doing the
> same thing in RR is entirely possible (and much easier)...

More than possible:



:)

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Application Generators

[Judy Perry]

As I loaded the page for this, my husband caught sight of the line:

"What is Sophie?"

And said, I ask myself this all the time...

Nearly 3 is twin daughter Sophie

;-)

Judy

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> > I wrote an eBook creator in 1988 in HC  Doing the
> > same thing in RR is entirely possible (and much easier)...
>
> More than possible:
>
> 

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Re: Windows Application Icon

[Trevor DeVore]

On Feb 6, 2004, at 10:41 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 10:21 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

I can't believe that at the very end it all breaks down because of an 
icon.
A couple years ago Trevor wrote this:

In the past I have used Microangelo (http://www.impactsoft.com/) to 
change the
icons for my windows executables.
Another program that I use now is ResourceTuner from Heaven Tools 
.  This lets you change icons (not create them 
like Microangelo) and it lets you change information about the 
executable properties.  I always get rid of the private build string as 
well as change the build number of the exe from Revolutions build 
number to my applications build number.  This might not be necessary 
with the new Distribution Builder that Monte did but if you 
distributing your application soon Resource Tuner is available now and 
only $34.

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
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Re: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution

[Alex Rice]

On Feb 7, 2004, at 1:52 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

It could an opportunity for Revolution to embedd these fonts in all 
versions of Revolution.
One that topic, Runrev please get rid of the "Courier" default in 
script editor of Runrev and embed ProFont instead! It's vaguely similar 
to Apple Monaco. It's my favorite code editing font ever! It's a bitmap 
font but that's fine if you aren't doing graphic design with the font.



--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
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Re: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution

[Dar Scott]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 07:47 AM, Klaus Major wrote:

just installed them here on OS X and they look great, even in 9 pt on a
1600*1200 screen :-)
Will have to test on windows tomorrow...
I MUST see before i believe ;-)
If anybody reports that these look the same, I'll run my 
formattedHeight and formattedWidth tests.

If there are differences, maybe we should look carefully, pixel by 
pixel, at how fonts look on other applications compared to Revolution 
on the same platform.  My tests have been Revolution to Revolution on 
different platforms.

If any font experts or anybody who stumbled on something that works 
could give some step-by-step advice in setting this up on particular 
platforms, that would be great.  My brain is not working well this 
morning and the jelly shudders at thinking.

Any other candidates?

Dar Scott

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Re: Windows Application Icon

[Dar Scott]

On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 11:01 PM, Mark Brownell wrote:

In the past I have used Microangelo (http://www.impactsoft.com/) to 
change the
icons for my windows executables.

Thanks Dar, That has some interesting possibilities.
Just $40.  And there seems to be a downloadable trial version, but I 
don't know if the trial will set icons.

I wonder if it would be possible to make a DB post-processing plugin 
that can do resource management.  It can make resources or maybe force 
them to point to resource properties in the main stack.

Dar Scott

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Re: Windows Application Icon

[Dar Scott]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 09:45 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

Another program that I use now is ResourceTuner from Heaven Tools 
.  This lets you change icons (not create 
them like Microangelo) and it lets you change information about the 
executable properties.  I always get rid of the private build string 
as well as change the build number of the exe from Revolutions build 
number to my applications build number.  This might not be necessary 
with the new Distribution Builder that Monte did but if you 
distributing your application soon Resource Tuner is available now and 
only $34.
The description at that page doesn't mention fonts, which have come up 
on another thread.  Would an embedded font be attached as a resource?  
Is that sufficient to make the fonts available to the application?

Dar Scott

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Re: Andy's comments and positioning...

[Dan Shafer]

OK, now I'm going to step in and tick off some folks and probably 
generate yet another round of discussion here.

WARNING: Long and opinionated.

Full Disclosure: Even though I use Rev "professionally" I do not 
consider myself primarily a professional programmer. I'm a tinkerer 
first. It's nice I get paid to do this stuff but I'd do it even if I 
didn't get paid (though I'd work on different projects!). I'm focused 
on my long-time role as the champion of the Inventive User. I invented 
the term if not the concept. I could give a good rodent's behind about 
professional developers as a market because of two perceptions gained 
from three decades living in their world: (1) They resist, as a group, 
changing languages and tools once they've learned one and invested gobs 
of time in building up libraries, learning where the bodybugs are 
buried, and developed a rep; (2) It's difficult or impossible to form 
real support communities around them because of the need for them to 
treat lots of stuff as proprietary and their need to stay focused on 
their tasks as opposed to helping some other poor soul.

I allow the possibility -- even the probability -- that I'm wrong in my 
perceptions. But at least you know where I'm coming from.



Back in the days I was touting Smalltalk as the Language of the Gods, 
you couldn't get a serious developer to look at it. A tiny, tiny 
minority did. Of those who did, almost all of them would eventually 
agree it was superior to their current toolset. And they'd still refuse 
to change. "I'm six months behind on my C++ project," they'd say. "I'd 
love to be able to take the time now to switch and master Smalltalk but 
I can't afford the cut in pay."

So to me, you build interest and market momentum for a new programming 
tool by tapping into two markets: education and hobbyists. Both have 
the potential to become professionals. And both are larger than the 
total market of professional programmers *who are willing to consider a 
new tool*. That audience, as many companies have found out the hard 
way, is much smaller than it appears.

Oh, this is gonna get long. Sorry. But I hope you find it interesting 
if not worthwhile. A couple of decades ago, I was a marketing 
communications guru at Intel. My boss came to me. "Motorola keeps 
beating us at design-in decisions with clearly inferior technology. 
Find out why and tell me how we fix it." Didn't take me long. Motorola 
was providing free SDK's (System Design Kits) to any college 
engineering professor who wanted them for his students, and providing 
them for free. When those engineers graduated, they'd get to their 
first job. Their boss would say, "Here's your first project. It's eight 
months behind schedule. What tools do you want?" The newly minted 
engineer would open his or her briefcase, point to the Motorola SDK and 
say, "I already know how to use this." The boss would ask, "Will it do 
what we need to do here?" The new engineer would say "Yes." "Then order 
it," the boss would say.

Intel started a competing SDK program for colleges and universities. I 
helped build that program. In three years, Intel was out-performing 
Motorola in those situations again.

So the education market is crucial, but it takes years to show an 
impact in the market. Only a company with huge resources can afford to 
give *hardware* away to that group. But a software company? If you 
don't offer support and you deliver the product electronically, your 
costs to seed the education market -- other than marketing -- are 
vanishingly small.

That said, I also tired quickly as I did that study for Intel of 
educational institutions and educators who (not universally but often 
enough to come to my attention): (a) demanded free or low-cost stuff 
even though they recommend textbooks that cost hundreds of dollars, 
some of which the recommending profs wrote; (b) garnered substantial 
government grants whose proceeds could have been put to use in buying 
stuff for students rather than paying assistants and buying travel & 
entertainment to attend conferences; (c) demanded extensive tech 
support; (d) in general, acted as if the world owed them a living. I 
saw a lot of that. A lot.

So I say to educators: if Rev is a great tool for teaching your class, 
how about getting some budget for it so the company can still be in 
business when your students graduate and look for jobs? And I say to 
Rev, if you find educational markets where penetration has serious 
long-term potential value, discount the heck out of the product or 
offer it free. But don't let those activities divert any substantial 
resources from continuing to develop the tool us 
hobbyists-cum-professionals need and are willing to pay for.



~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)
__

Re: go vs open?

[Dan Shafer]

Jeanne

Your questions led me to discover the problem. Thanks.

The stack in question was open, but hidden. Using "open" or "go" on a 
stack that's already open won't show it and bring it to the front. You 
have to "show" it.

My guess is that the condition of the stack was different (i.e., hidden 
sometimes, closed others) and that's why the problem *seemed* to arise.

I decided ultimately not to hide the stack but to close it. I hope that 
doesn't eventually bite me in the butt; I'm always hesitant to close 
things because of my remaining uncertainty about what happens to the 
stacks data and state when I do that. I guess I'm about to find out.

Gulp.

On Feb 6, 2004, at 10:45 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

At 9:05 PM -0800 2/6/04, Dan Shafer wrote:
open stack "PIClearingNew"

When it executes, the stack opens fine. But the error dialog pops up 
and tells me there's an error on that line.

If I change "open" to "go" it works fine and I get no error.


They should be synonymous, but maybe there's some glitch.

Is the stack open at the time, or closed? If open, frontmost or not?

Closed. Actually, probably more often it's open but hidden. Definitely 
not frontmost.

Do you get the same error if you simply enter the command in the 
message box, without the surrounding script?

What happens if you retype the word "open" into the script, 
eliminating any possibility that some weird invisible character has 
sneaked in?
--
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.jaedworks.com
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~~
Dan Shafer, Revolutionary
Author of  "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
http://www.revolutionpros.com for more info
Available at Runtime Revolution Store (http://www.runrev.com/RevPress)
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Puzzled about stack size

[Jim Hurley]

I have a stack which has one card, about 25 controls and about 800 
lines of script, no graphics, and no images. Pretty much a bare bones 
stack. It is a utility stack I use for working on database materials.

In the interest of saving space in the file, I deleted the text from 
all fields, yet the stack file shows about 6 megabytes!

I created a new stack with the same number of controls and inserted 
800 lines of text in one of the fields. The file is about 24 K.

Now the db stack originally contained massive amounts of county 
election data. But all of that is gone now, and yet the stack is 
still 6 megs.

I know that RR does not have a separate utility to compact stack as 
in the old HC days; that is supposedly done with each save (save from 
the menu bar.)

I have many stacks with more controls, longer scripts, a few 
graphics, and images. Yet they are a fraction of the size of this one 
DB stack. What could be eating up  all this space?

Jim
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Re: Compression and Decompression of multiple files

[Rob Cozens]

Has anyone got any ideas as to how revolution could compress the files
and subfolders of a folder?
Hi Thomas,

Richard Gaskin, Sarah Richert, yours truly, and others have gotten as 
far as you; but no one I know of has taken the next step: combining 
individual file compression logic with the recursive logic of the 
Transcript Directory Walker.  Sarah & I have done some preliminary 
work to combine her drag-and-drop compression utility, SDB Tools 
compression utility (which, besides simple compression, includes 
logic to default the file type of Windows & Unix stacks for seamless 
transfer to Mac O/S platforms, and prevent the user from 
decompressing a file with a Mac O/S resource fork on a non-Mac 
platform); but it's a VERY low priority for both of us at the moment.

The design I have in mind would create a list of all files & their 
folder locations via a tweaked Directory Walker command, compress 
each file individually, append the individual compressed files, and 
append an index of the archive listing each file's size & byte offset 
from the beginning of the archive file.

Simple decompression would simply decompress the entire contents of 
the folder.  A more elegant solution would display the archive index 
and allow the user to select individual files for decompression
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: Labels and labeled Fields

[Rob Cozens]

why would you want to interact with a label?
Thanks for asking, Eric.

For the first 15 years of my programming career, the programming 
environments I worked in only allowed me white, green, or amber ASCII 
characters on a black background to "paint" an input screen.  The 
programming syntax allowed me to manipulate numbers & text only.

Ever since I started working with HyperCard, one primary area of 
personal exploration is how to include graphics, sound, color, 
animation, etc. to enrich the user interface and engage users on more 
sensory levels.  Over the years I have developed a strong preference 
for point-&-click, button-driven interfaces...in fact most, if not 
all, pull-down menus in Serendipity Library's component stacks are my 
concession to the prevalent design mode and are there for developers 
who are not comfortable with my approach.

In my own application design, field input is strictly controlled a la 
traditional data entry programs:

* Only one field in a window is unlocked & open for input at any one time.

* While a field is open for input, each keystroke is filtered against 
the field specification in the Data Dictionary.

* On closeField the input is validated, optionally reformatted (eg: 
add thousands separator{s} and/or currency symbol), and locked.

* At closeField, the next field to be opened is determined (sometimes 
based on what was enter in the field just closed), unlocked, and 
selected for the user.

So when adding a new record, each field is simply opened & closed in turn.

But what to do if the user wants to edit an existing record?  My 
solution is to enable the title (label) buttons to open their data 
field on mouseUp.  At this point you also need to know that another 
mainstay of my design philosophy is a multi-line prompt/help field at 
the bottom of the window which, among other things, displays a 
description of the function of each enabled button when the mouse is 
over the button...kind of like a multi-line tool tip field that 
displays tips in a fixed location instead of having them pop up where 
ever.

Each title button can have five different icons.  I create the same 
icon in color, b&w, and gray.  When the icon is gray, the user knows 
the button is disabled; when the button is b&w, the user knows it is 
enabled...and an enabled button will turn to color when it is armed 
on mouseEnter.

Actually, I play may other tricks with button icons to increase user feedback.

If this still leaves you wondering, Eric, a picture is worth 1 K 
words: the best example in the current Serendipity Library download 
is the Data Dictionary window in the database Edit menu (which is 
moved from the db menu to the SDB Tools menu in the next release).
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: Puzzled about stack size

[Alex Rice]

On Feb 7, 2004, at 10:40 AM, Jim Hurley wrote:

What could be eating up  all this space?
Are you using background groups or custom properties?  Both of these 
could be "hiding" data from you. Application Browser does not show 
unplaced background groups, I think, which is kind of tricky.

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
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Re: Puzzled about stack size

[Dar Scott]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 10:40 AM, Jim Hurley wrote:
Now the db stack originally contained massive amounts of county 
election data. But all of that is gone now, and yet the stack is still 
6 megs.

I have many stacks with more controls, longer scripts, a few graphics, 
and images. Yet they are a fraction of the size of this one DB stack. 
What could be eating up  all this space?

I made a stack and put my novel into a field.  I saved the stack.  The 
size is 612,669 bytes.  I deleted the novel from the field.  I saved 
the stack.  The size is less than 4K.  So size seems OK for me.

Could you have some data in a custom property?  For backup or 
something?  Or used by your db connection?

Dar Scott

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Re: Compression and Decompression of multiple files

[Richard Gaskin]

Rob Cozens wrote:

> Richard Gaskin, Sarah Richert, yours truly, and others have gotten as
> far as you; but no one I know of has taken the next step: combining
> individual file compression logic with the recursive logic of the
> Transcript Directory Walker.

I didn't realize this was seen as a challenge.  It's not too hard:

- Use a stackfile for storage
- store compressed file data in one property set
- store file metadata in another property set
- recombine as needed on the backside

I made a tool for this some time ago but never finished it because it seemed
less useful than tar archives, which are very common but much harder to
make.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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The Value of Rev Stacks One Never Sells

[Rob Cozens]

By adding Rev to their mix suddenly all
sorts of opportunities open up for them, from custom tools for business
managers to VPN UIs to CD-ROM sales tools to commercial products that would
be difficult or impossible to do well on the Web
Let me, if I may, use this portion of Richard's excellent analysis to 
suggest there is even more value available to you when you start 
using Revolution for in-house, throwaway projects.  For years I have 
used HyperCard for any task requiring combining text and images. 
This includes letterhead, CD labels, advertising copy layout, "slide 
show" presentations, online manuals, etc.

More recently, a long-time client asked me to prepare a summary of 
the reasoning for converting the drywall estimating software I wrote 
for them ca 1988 to Revolution and exploring how the software might 
present itself.  In response I delivered a CD with a Revolution 
standalone consisting of a letterhead field, a scrolling text field, 
three buttons, and three substacks.

The standalone opens & reads like a scrolling letter, until the field 
scrolls completely to the end.  At that point the three buttons 
appear.  MouseUp at any button displays one of three possible designs 
for the main input screen.

So don't overlook how Revolution can work for you in-house as you use 
it to develop the products that pay the rent.
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: Application Generators

[michael]

I noticed Sophie Reader but saw nothing about a Sophie Authoring app.  
Any info on that? 
Something along the lines of TK3 by http://nightkitchen.com is close to 
what I am looking for.
Sophie is definately nice though.  Maybe you can provide more info on 
thebackend tool(s).

Thanks.

Michael

 

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Re: SMS from Rev CGI

[sims]

I'd like to send SMS to individual mobile phones
from a Rev CGI script...
Could this be done with libSMPT ? If not, what
other solutions ?
Perhaps you can use ICQ and libSMPT?

country code + mobile number @ icqsms.com

Have a look at the following web page:
http://web.icq.com/help/quickhelp/1,,1728,00.html?mul=1
atb

sims
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RE: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution

[Ken Ray]

> One that topic, Runrev please get rid of the "Courier" default in 
> script editor of Runrev and embed ProFont instead! 

I was *wondering* where ProFont was... I used to use that a lot in the
early days. Thanks, Alex!

BTW: Do you know where "ASCIIFont" is? It was a font that put the ASCII
numbers underneath each of the letters and was *extremely* useful...

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 


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Re: Compression and Decompression of multiple files

[Richard Gaskin]

Rob Cozens wrote:

>> I made a tool for this some time ago but never finished it because it seemed
>> less useful than tar archives, which are very common but much harder to
>> make.
> 
> The StuffIt tar archiver I use seems to do no compression...at least
> compared to .sits, .seas, and Windows .zips.  Is that normal?  Is
> there nothing better (at building a smaller archive from the same
> files) available to the Unix community?

Tar's pretty good: it uses gzip at the core.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Compression and Decompression of multiple files

[Richard Gaskin]

Rob Cozens wrote:

>> It sounds like you would not be leveraging the structure of a "data
>> stack" as the underlying format for the archive? If you aren't going
>> to leverage a "data stack" then maybe it should just be a ZIP or TAR
>> engine so as to be a more compatible format?
> 
> Interesting idea, Alex.  Yes, one could incorporate cards & nested
> groups to create the archive design and index and never need to
> append the individually-compressed files.  I'll paste your suggestion
> next to the far back burner where the project is barely cooking.
> 
> In answer to why not use ZIP or TAR, my goal is to create a universal
> folder compression/decompression utility in Transcript for deployment
> across all Revolution hardware platforms.  Ideally, I want to
> simplify serendipity_downloader.htm to contain one file bundle for
> Mac, Windows, & Unix developers in the archive format and one
> compression/decompression utility stack.  It also seems to me such a
> tool could easily evolve into a generic Revolution stack/standalone
> installer.

The nice thing about using tar as the format is that you save the 2MB engine
size to decompress.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Compression and Decompression of multiple files

[Alex Rice]

On Feb 7, 2004, at 10:39 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

The StuffIt tar archiver I use seems to do no compression...at least 
compared to .sits, .seas, and Windows .zips.  Is that normal?  Is 
there nothing better (at building a smaller archive from the same 
files) available to the Unix community?
That's correct TAR does not do compression, it just does archiving. 
However GNU tar can pipe data through gzip, bzip, gunzip, bunzip, etc. 
So in practice, the tar *command* does do compression:

tar xvzf something.tar.gz # expand
tar cvzf something.tar.gz folder1 folder2 file3 ...  # compress
--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[Rob Cozens]

I was thinking of tagging with read-only properties.

The information might be these:
Copyright
Contact Info
Long Unique Name
What is your primary purpose, Dar?

At first blush, at least Copyright & Contact seem candidates for 
display in an About menuItem rather than being hidden in a stack 
property.  OTOH, if you're hiding the copyright in a property to 
protect your legal claim in case some else should change your About 
text and redistribute your work, that's different.

But that wouldn't explain placing contact info where the users will 
never see it.
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution

[Dom]

Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> One that topic, Runrev please get rid of the "Courier" default in 
> script editor of Runrev

I thought it was "Courier new" instead?
As for me, I am using "Andale mono" 
-- at 16: I am sort of shortsighted ;-))

About visually impaired persons: it's a pain for me to read those tiny
chars in the Help ;->
This ought to be a choice!

-- 
Vous parlez français ? faites un tour sur le groupe francophone !
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Application Generators

[Richard Gaskin]

michael wrote:

> I noticed Sophie Reader but saw nothing about a Sophie Authoring app.
> Any info on that?
> Something along the lines of TK3 by http://nightkitchen.com is close to
> what I am looking for.
> Sophie is definately nice though.  Maybe you can provide more info on
> thebackend tool(s).

Sophie reads plain text (such as Guttenberg ebooks) and styled text using a
subset of HTML augmented with a few Sophie-specific tags to hold metadata
(author, copyright, etc.) and section breaks (chapters, subchapters, etc).

So they're all just text.  :)

Check out the example books Brian Thomas put together to see how they're
laid out.

For greater efficiency you can author in the HTML editor of your choice, or
even in Rev by exporting its HtmlText. Unlike exporting for the Web,
exportingHtmlText from Rev requires no firther modification ffor WYSIWYG
diplay.

We have portions of other fun features built, including the ability to
browse and download from any number of HTTP-based Sophie libraries, and a
Library Publisher tool for organizing libraries, packaging contents, and
writing the index file Sophie's Library Manager would read to show you
what's on the library.

Alas, giving away free software is a hard way to pay the bills, so those
plans sit behind client projects for the moment'

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Compression and Decompression of multiple files

[Rob Cozens]

The nice thing about using tar as the format is that you save the 2MB engine
size to decompress.
Forgetting for the moment use of my proposed utility for 
installation, the same holds true: it relies on the Revolution engine 
to drive the scripts in the archive utility.
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: Compression and Decompression of multiple files

[Rob Cozens]

That's correct TAR does not do compression, it just does archiving. 
However GNU tar can pipe data through gzip, bzip, gunzip, bunzip, 
etc. So in practice, the tar *command* does do compression:
This explains why Stuffit for Mac OS doesn't compress the archive.

Alex, Richard, anyone: Is TAR supported on all Revolution platforms?
--
Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[Richard Gaskin]

Rob Cozens wrote:

>> I was thinking of tagging with read-only properties.
>> 
>> The information might be these:
>> Copyright
>> Contact Info
>> Long Unique Name
> 
> What is your primary purpose, Dar?
> 
> At first blush, at least Copyright & Contact seem candidates for
> display in an About menuItem rather than being hidden in a stack
> property. 

I store version info in a property and grab it on the fly for display in the
About box, which provides a convenient place to grab such info from any tool
(such as an updater tool).

I shudder at the thought, but is it worthwhile to arrive at a set of
conventions for naming common metadata properties?  It would likely be a
long and tedious discussion, but we might have greater interoperability of
components if we did.

I'm think of things like version, copyright, publication date, and for
libraries a list of exposed commands and functions, possibly with
descriptions like AppleScript.  As Rev grows there will be greater
opportunities for commercial libraries, so having a common way for other
components to know what's there would allow a script to be locked yet still
be useful (a true black box).

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Compression and Decompression of multiple files

[Richard Gaskin]

Rob Cozens wrote:

>> The nice thing about using tar as the format is that you save the 2MB engine
>> size to decompress.
> 
> Forgetting for the moment use of my proposed utility for
> installation, the same holds true: it relies on the Revolution engine
> to drive the scripts in the archive utility.

Sure, but if we can convince someone to do it in Tar we get the same result
with much broader possible uses.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
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Re: Compression and Decompression of multiple files

[Richard Gaskin]

Rob Cozens wrote:

> Is TAR supported on all Revolution platforms?

TAR is everywhere.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[Dar Scott]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 11:31 AM, Rob Cozens wrote:

At first blush, at least Copyright & Contact seem candidates for 
display in an About menuItem rather than being hidden in a stack 
property.
In an application, there is no reason to not have it both places.

But that wouldn't explain placing contact info where the users will 
never see it.
Not all stacks are applications.  Many are libraries.  Certainly back 
script buttons and custom controls are almost always not applications.

This allows that info to be included in a uniform way.

It also creates a unique name so that short name conflicts can be 
resolved by some yet-to-be-determined method.  The unique name might 
also be used at some point to help in including stacks.  At runtime 
controls might point to the unique name of a support library.  That 
library might also try to init controls with that unique name pointing 
back at it.  There might be lots of uses for unique names.  I want to 
start using them early before too much of my stuff gets out there.  Or 
in here.

A plugin might look for info in an object library and provide that.

Some folks mentioned dynamic updating of library stacks.  Having a 
read-only property that tells exactly where to get it might be handy.  
Maybe.

A short description might make it easier for me to keep up with my 
re-usable objects.

I got to thinking about this when I was thinking about how I might do 
custom controls.  This is a must smaller set of read-only properties 
and with a broader application, so I thought I'd check and see what 
folks are doing.

Dar Scott

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Re: Compression and Decompression of multiple files

[Dar Scott]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 12:47 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Sure, but if we can convince someone to do it in Tar we get the same 
result
with much broader possible uses.
I know what it takes to convince me.

TAR is everywhere.
Interesting philosophy.

Dar Scott

--

Dar Scott Consulting
http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
Programming Services

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crash rash

[Friedrich F. Grohmann]

I am working with Rev 2.1.2 on a PowerPC G4 with OS 10.3.2 . Recently, 
Rev has been crashing with great regularity. After saving and closing the 
application I am developing, a mere touch at the menubar will, before I 
can pull down any menu, lead either to an "unexpected" quit or the 
rainbow wheel.

Rev crashed the first time when Chinese text in fields went berserk. 
Though it  seems I've managed to circumvent similar episodes by now, the 
present frequency  of crashes makes me wonder whether nothing more 
fundamental is going wrong. Any help appreciated.

Fritz
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RE: Manipulating Old Dates

[Ken Ray]

Rob,

In the product I'm working on with a client right now, we keep track of
birthdates. And the way we manage it is by setting the centuryCutoff to
one less than the current year (so right now it's "03"). This means that
as long as someone is 99 years old or less, we're OK. It's not a perfect
solution, but it's working so far.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/ 

> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of 
> Rob Cozens
> Sent: Saturday, February 07, 2004 9:18 AM
> To: How to use Revolution
> Subject: Manipulating Old Dates
> 
> 
> Several months ago I had a conversation with Ken Ray about the 
> shortcomings of Transcript's date manipulation commands when applied 
> to dates more than half a century old (or in the future).  I was 
> reminded of the issue when Douglas McKay wrote to tell me Serendipity 
> Library's validDate function did not work for the date he entered.
> 
> So I created a stack, a button, and a handler:
> 
>   on mouseUp
>   ask "Enter a date:"
>   convert it to dateItems
>   put "The converted date is"&&it
>   end mouseUp
> 
> I took a day, Feb. 8, and ran the handler several times, changing the 
> year by a decade each time.
> 
>   "2/8/44" yields "1944,8,2...
>   "2/8/34" yields "2034,8,2...
>   "2/8/1934" yields "2034,8,2...
> 
> The first two results are predictable, as the centuryCutoff property 
> defaults to 35.  The third result suggests to me that all date 
> conversion uses seconds as an intermediate conversion format (and 
> probably that is why one can add to the seconds, days, and months and 
> get a correct date WITHIN THE RANGE OF THE CENTURY CUTOFF).
> 
> So just how does one work around this shortcoming, especially when 
> dealing with current & past dates concurrently?  For example, I have 
> a stack that charts biorhythms from any date based on the subject's 
> dob.  Normally, biorhythms are charted from a current date a few 
> months into the future; so one would expect the starting date to work 
> with a centuryCutoff of 35 (until 2036).  But what of birth dates? 
> Again, biorhythms are normally charted for living persons, not 
> historical figures; but even so there are people alive today that 
> could have been born in the 19th, 20th, or 21st centuries.
> 
> How does one deal with these issues given Transcript's date 
> handling commands?
> 
> And isn't the centuryCutoff property setting developers up for "baby 
> Y2K" conversion issues as the default centuryCutoff approaches?
> 
> When Ken & I spoke, we discussed the need for Julian date handlers in 
> Transcript.  I have Julian date routines in my old FORTRAN & PL/1 
> libraries.  Is it time they were incorporated into Serendipity 
> Library?
> 
> Rob Cozens
> CCW, Serendipity Software Company http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
> 
> "And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
> Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
> 
> from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631) 
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Re: Compression and Decompression of multiple files

[Alex Rice]

On Feb 7, 2004, at 12:27 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

Tar's pretty good: it uses gzip at the core.
I know nothing about the tar file format internals, but when you see a 
.tar.gz file or .tgz file, that is a tar file with gzip run on it 
afterwards. So I assume the tar format itself doesn't do any 
compression?

--
Alex Rice | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com
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The Value of Rev Stacks One Never Sells

[Kurt Kaufman]

Rob Cozens wrote:

"...So don't overlook how Revolution can work for you in-house as you 
use
it to develop the products that pay the rent."

Here is an example of an application built entirely for my own needs:
I recently bought a digital camera capable of creating short video 
clips. Unfortunately, many short clips means many double-clicks on file 
icons, or many trips to the File menu within the Player application.  I 
could not find an application that would play these clips without first 
setting up a "playlist", so I wrote that application myself:
http://www.shopperturnpike.com/usefulsoftware/cliplinkviewer.html

Friends and family asked for it so I eventually made it available.

-KK

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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[Dar Scott]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 12:46 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

I shudder at the thought, but is it worthwhile to arrive at a set of
conventions for naming common metadata properties?  It would likely be 
a
long and tedious discussion, but we might have greater 
interoperability of
components if we did.
I was looking to see if there was already something out there, some 
tradition the old-timers might know about.  Or maybe something somebody 
has already made up.

If what I use either matches common practice or common practice happens 
to follow what I do, I benefit for lots of reasons.  One might be that 
it increases the chance that the IDE might become smart along this line.


I'm think of things like version, copyright, publication date, and for
libraries a list of exposed commands and functions, possibly with
descriptions like AppleScript.  As Rev grows there will be greater
opportunities for commercial libraries, so having a common way for 
other
components to know what's there would allow a script to be locked yet 
still
be useful (a true black box).
There are lots of directions for libraries.  Issues might include named 
interfaces vs command list.  There is also the other direction 
concerning the required libraries.

That is one of the reasons my question was directed to a few simple 
things that would be common among objects.

Also, folks might join a bandwagon in a few simple tags but might 
flinch at an elaborate library description.

Even so, it might be possible to start out with a simple set, and then 
for libraries add a small set and then a more elaborate set.  Folks who 
want to participate may at any level.  Sets that turn out to have 
little use or are too much trouble will wither away.  Maybe it would be 
nice to refer to these by name, perhaps formally.

I got to this point because of my interest in custom controls.  The 
same kinds of issues may apply in common practice there.

Dar Scott



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Re: Andy's comments and positioning...

[Judy Perry]

Dan,

I'm gonna snip stuff I'm not going to reply to.  I'll start off by saying
that I'm no programmer at all.  I'm an educator.  I just bought your book
(okay, so that part's off-topic).

> So to me, you build interest and market momentum for a new programming
> tool by tapping into two markets: education and hobbyists. Both have
> the potential to become professionals. And both are larger than the
> total market of professional programmers *who are willing to consider a
> new tool*. That audience, as many companies have found out the hard
> way, is much smaller than it appears.

--Amen!

> That said, I also tired quickly as I did that study for Intel of
> educational institutions and educators who (not universally but often
> enough to come to my attention): (a) demanded free or low-cost stuff
> even though they recommend textbooks that cost hundreds of dollars,
> some of which the recommending profs wrote; (b) garnered substantial
> government grants whose proceeds could have been put to use in buying
> stuff for students rather than paying assistants and buying travel &
> entertainment to attend conferences; (c) demanded extensive tech
> support; (d) in general, acted as if the world owed them a living. I
> saw a lot of that. A lot.

True enough in most circumstances, I suspect...  I told my students not to
buy the textbook and instead buy Rev.  I get no grants, attend no
conferences, have no student assistants and try not to bother people too
much.

But part of the reason why what you've said about educators (and
probably alot of them in higher ed) is likely true is that they don't know
diddly-squat about computers.  What's worse is that they don't want to
know. As I keep hearing, "it's just a tool, like any other tool.  I don't
need to know mechanics to drive my car so why should I know about hardware
and software to implement computers in education?"  The people saying
these things have Ph.D.'s in instructional design and technology.

I know this because I'm currently finishing up my master's in
instructional design and technology.  Let me  start by about telling you
about some of my instructors.  The first one is given to making grandiose
claims about how the real digeratii all know that VBA stands for "Visual
Basic Analogue" and that Hypercard was "a cheap rip-off of Visual Basic".
He doesn't know what metadata is.  He thinks that the California
department of motor vehicles page is an outstanding example of webpage
design (http://www.dmv.ca.gov/dmv.htm -- okay, so it doesn't quite merit
an award on 'webpages that suck', but I think it's simply hideous
looking).  And he thinks he's a techie.  And he's so glaringly not.

The program's coordinator thinks that Microsoft FrontPage is (a) a
professional web development tool and (b) that it's cross-platform, and,
finally, (c) when I tell her it's not, she all but calls me a liar.

Our web developer instructor last term apparently doesn't grasp the fact
that not all web browsers are equally javascript compliant, and so
javascripts that ran in IE and Netscape but not in Safari were
automatically dismissed.  He also neglected to tell the class that all
these little asp things he was teaching us to do in FrontPage won't work
on all servers.  But at least we know that the proper document extension
for an asp webpage is asp (actual final exam question).

That's about all we've learned about actually using technology itself.
Instead, we've spent countless hours talking about what it feels like to
be a tree that feels bias (actual textbook example) and so on..

We'd have a better chance if credential-granting institutions required
actual computer literacy and authoring classes instead of one more class
on why girls can't finish tasks and need more virtual makeover software to
turn them into computer scientists (another actual example).  Their new
big thing is Microsoft Producer.

This is the problem.  After going through the trial-by-death of making two
projects in Director and having received ZERO instruction on how to use
it, these students-cum-teachers hate hate HATE authoring programs and
revert back to the comfort zone of using PowerPoint and Producer.  And
they feel pretty good about this because, as two of our instructors
actually published in a book, it's certainly an improvement over the
morning PA system's daily announcements' implementation of multimedia in
the classroom...

Pass the tagamet... :(

Judy

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Re: Compression and Decompression of multiple files

[Richard Gaskin]

Alex Rice wrote:

> 
> On Feb 7, 2004, at 12:27 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Tar's pretty good: it uses gzip at the core.
> 
> I know nothing about the tar file format internals, but when you see a
> .tar.gz file or .tgz file, that is a tar file with gzip run on it
> afterwards. So I assume the tar format itself doesn't do any
> compression?

Correct, I was thinking of tgz, which seems the most common usage.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___
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Re: The Bitstream VERA font, the first truely crossplatform solution

[Dar Scott]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 07:24 AM, Toma Tasovac wrote:

the fonts HAVE been released, you were just looking at the wrong place

http://www.gnome.org/fonts/

On Feb 7, 2004, at 3:08 PM, Ian Wood wrote:

It looks very readable, but note the phrase 'will be released'.
I am concerned about any product in which the producers are confused 
about whether it is released or not.

One font that has caught my eye over of the past year or two is 
Everson.  It is a fixed pitch full non-CJK unicode font.  It is not 
free.  It is available for Windows and OS X.  Maybe RunRev can $obtain$ 
this and include with studio and enterprise a 
resale-as-part-of-made/with/Revolution-products license for them.  
Maybe RunRev can $motivate$ the designer to extend these to other 
platforms.  This can work as a great background unicode font.  I like 
the idea of a font that has Greek Extended, Phonetic Extended and 
Control Pictures all in the same font.

I have no idea how Everson will work for multi-platform applications; 
maybe the same problems will be there.

I haven't tried Everson Mono Unicode, yet.

Dar Scott

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Re: Puzzled about stack size

[Jim Hurley]

Message: 5
Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 10:12:07 -0700
From: Rob Cozens <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Puzzled about stack size
To: How to use Revolution <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" ; format="flowed"
I have many stacks with more controls, longer scripts, a few
graphics, and images. Yet they are a fraction of the size of this
one DB stack. What could be eating up  all this space?
Hi Jim,

No answers, but some thoughts:

* Does the db stack contain externals?

* Does it incorporate a large image or clip?

* Does it incorporate a small image that accidentally had its rect reset?

* Have you opened the stack in the Application Browser and checked
the list of controls on each card...including the size of their
scripts?
* If you open & close the stack without adding anything to it, does
stack size remain static or grow?
If none of that helps, is it feasible to open the stack, delete a
card or group, close the stack, check stack size, and repeat the
process until you see a dramatic change in stack size?  Then you
could go back to the card or group you deleted and repeat the process
deleting one control at a time.  It's tedious, I know, but it should
isolate the source of the problem.  Perhaps you could write a script
that would automate the process?
--
Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm


Rob,

Following your suggestion. I deleted one field, a table field that 
showed empty. The file size dropped from 6 megs to 144 K. (By the 
way, is there a way to get the file size from within RR?)

I restored the stack to "saved". In the message box I tried:

   put the number of lines in field "theField"

The result was zero.

I looked in the property  inspector for the field. The "contents" 
showed empty. I then scrolled down to
"table." There was a long pause and eventually all the data 
reappeared. In the messages box the number of lines was now 13,234.

I selected the field and press delete. The field showed empty--again. 
I scrolled down to "table" in the property inspector again and, 
again, after a long pause, the data was resurrected.

Strange things are happening in table fields. This same thing happens 
even for small amounts of data.

Jim
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Re: Andy's comments and positioning...

[Richard Gaskin]

Judy Perry wrote:

> But part of the reason why what you've said about educators (and
> probably alot of them in higher ed) is likely true is that they don't know
> diddly-squat about computers.  What's worse is that they don't want to
> know. As I keep hearing, "it's just a tool, like any other tool.  I don't
> need to know mechanics to drive my car so why should I know about hardware
> and software to implement computers in education?"  The people saying
> these things have Ph.D.'s in instructional design and technology.

Some of the toughest tech support I do is for HyperRESEARCH, popular among
academic sociology researchers.  I speak with a lot of doctorates and
candidates, and while they're all great sociology researchers their
computing experience varies broadly.  :)

...
> This is the problem.  After going through the trial-by-death of making two
> projects in Director and having received ZERO instruction on how to use
> it, these students-cum-teachers hate hate HATE authoring programs and
> revert back to the comfort zone of using PowerPoint and Producer.

Excatly.   There are great opportunities in education markets, but perhaps
few for scripting products.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___
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Re: Puzzled about stack size

[Richard Gaskin]

Jim Hurley wrote:

> Following your suggestion. I deleted one field, a table field that
> showed empty. The file size dropped from 6 megs to 144 K. (By the
> way, is there a way to get the file size from within RR?)
> 
> I restored the stack to "saved". In the message box I tried:
> 
> put the number of lines in field "theField"
> 
> The result was zero.
> 
> I looked in the property  inspector for the field. The "contents"
> showed empty. I then scrolled down to
> "table." There was a long pause and eventually all the data
> reappeared. In the messages box the number of lines was now 13,234.
> 
> I selected the field and press delete. The field showed empty--again.
> I scrolled down to "table" in the property inspector again and,
> again, after a long pause, the data was resurrected.
> 
> Strange things are happening in table fields. This same thing happens
> even for small amounts of data.

When the visible eludes, check the less visible:  what's in the custom
property sets for those objects?

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Andy's comments and positioning...

[Judy Perry]

On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Excatly.   There are great opportunities in education markets, but perhaps
> few for scripting products.

--Still, now that my tagamet's starting to dissolve, I still believe there
is hope for Rev in education.  One byproduct of this dismal degree program
was becoming acquainted with a fellow student who is a technology teacher
at a local high school.

He invited me to be on his program advisory committee and wants to look
about possibly adopting Rev over Flash for an intro. multimedia course...
There is a Rev list member who I think has adopted it for his teacher
training program...  But it will be an uphill battle...

Judy

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Re: Windows Application Icon

[Trevor DeVore]

On Feb 7, 2004, at 10:10 AM, Dar Scott wrote:
On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 09:45 AM, Trevor DeVore wrote:

Another program that I use now is ResourceTuner from Heaven Tools 
.  This lets you change icons (not create 
them like Microangelo) and it lets you change information about the 
executable properties.  I always get rid of the private build string 
as well as change the build number of the exe from Revolutions build 
number to my applications build number.  This might not be necessary 
with the new Distribution Builder that Monte did but if you 
distributing your application soon Resource Tuner is available now 
and only $34.
The description at that page doesn't mention fonts, which have come up 
on another thread.  Would an embedded font be attached as a resource?  
Is that sufficient to make the fonts available to the application?
In the Resource Tuner help file it lists fonts under the Resource 
section but doesn't say anything much about it.  In Resource Tuner you 
can edit or remove an existing resource but it doesn't seem that you 
can add one.   Maybe PE Explorer (Resource Tuner's big brother) does 
that?

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Andy's comments and positioning...

[Richard Gaskin]

Judy Perry wrote:

> On Sat, 7 Feb 2004, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Excatly.   There are great opportunities in education markets, but perhaps
>> few for scripting products.
> 
> --Still, now that my tagamet's starting to dissolve, I still believe there
> is hope for Rev in education.  One byproduct of this dismal degree program
> was becoming acquainted with a fellow student who is a technology teacher
> at a local high school.
> 
> He invited me to be on his program advisory committee and wants to look
> about possibly adopting Rev over Flash for an intro. multimedia course...
> There is a Rev list member who I think has adopted it for his teacher
> training program...  But it will be an uphill battle...

Maybe not too uphill -- just consider the number of educators on this list.
I feel there's definitely a place, perhaps a strong one, for Rev in
education.

But it will take some research and development before Rev is able to
precisely nail the value proposition for the broader education market as
it's been doing for developers.

That's really my only point here:  it may well be worthwhile doing the long
research process needed to develop and market effectively for educators, but
not if it means losing sight of the past and current focus on professional
quality development which has been the product's award-winning strength thus
far (not to mention the source of most of the revenue and reputation that
would make such exploration into other markets possible).

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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The new DB

[Graham Samuel]

On Fri, 6 Feb 2004 18:01:49 +1030, "Monte Goulding" 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

[...]
 I just tested with the new DB and it's
working fine but that doesn't mean it wasn't an issue with the old one.
Monte, what is the status of the new DB - is it released? If not, when do 
you think it will be? Is it waiting for RR 2.1.3, or what? Nothing visible 
that I can see on the RR website (which OT is clearly overdue for an update).

Just curious

Graham

PS Maybe the new version could have a more appropriate name, like 
'Application Builder' for example. But maybe I'm the only one who finds 
'Distribution Builder' pretty much devoid of meaning.

---
Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK & France  

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Re: The new DB

[Dar Scott]

On Friday, February 6, 2004, at 06:24 AM, Graham Samuel wrote:

PS Maybe the new version could have a more appropriate name, like 
'Application Builder' for example.
I like "Application Builder".  We may be late in saying so for the 
upcoming versions.

Dar Scott

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Re: Compression and Decompression of multiple files

[Rob Cozens]

Sure, but if we can convince someone to do it in Tar we get the same result
with much broader possible uses.
Yes, I see that, Richard.

My goal was not a universal archiver to compete with StuffIt & WindZip:

As I set up serendipity_downloader.htm, I asked myself, "will there 
come a time in the evolution of Revolution that I can place one 
download on my ftp site that can be decompressed by any Revolutionist 
on any platform?"

If someone doesn't come up with something better in the meantime, 
I'll get around to it.  At this point, my inclination is to look 
further into Alex's concept of a stack as a wrapper for an archive.
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: Compression and Decompression of multiple files

[Rob Cozens]

 > Is TAR supported on all Revolution platforms?

TAR is everywhere.
But assuming Alex is correct, and my experience seems to confirm it, 
TAR by itself provides no compression/decompression.

So is there one utility currently available for all Rev platforms to 
build and decompress compressed TAR archives?
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[Rob Cozens]

Not all stacks are applications.  Many are libraries.
Libraries can have About menus.
--
Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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RE: Manipulating Old Dates

[Rob Cozens]

This means that
as long as someone is 99 years old or less, we're OK. It's not a perfect
solution, but it's working so far.
Ken,

Given the limitations of X-Talks date support, would you have done it 
differently if Transcript supported Julian date manipulation?
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: The Value of Rev Stacks One Never Sells

[Rob Cozens]

I could not find an application that would play these clips without 
first setting up a "playlist", so I wrote that application myself:
http://www.shopperturnpike.com/usefulsoftware/cliplinkviewer.html

Friends and family asked for it so I eventually made it available.
Bravo, Kurt!
--
Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: Puzzled about stack size

[Rob Cozens]

Strange things are happening in table fields.
I'm afraid I can only get you this far, Jim.

I know nothing about table fields.  Are these linked to a database, 
by any chance?
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: command-2 (previous) and command-3 (next), jumping by 2

[Christopher Mitchell]

Ahoy,

So this seems very odd to me, and disruptive - is it then a known bug 
on bugzilla?

Yours,
Chris
On Feb 7, 2004, at 1:53 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Yup, happening over here too. :)

Valetia
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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[Dar Scott]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 01:32 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

Not all stacks are applications.  Many are libraries.
Libraries can have About menus.
I didn't think about this.

I guess they can have documentation and a demo, too.  Maybe a test 
suite.

They might have a control of some standard size that con be put on an 
application about window.

I wonder how much should go in a library.

I sometimes go the other direction and deliver a segment of script.

Dar Scott

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Dan Shafer's comments on positioning...

[Richard K. Herz]

Dan Shafer wrote:

> That said, I also tired quickly as I did that study for Intel of
> educational institutions and educators who (not universally but often
> enough to come to my attention): (a) demanded free or low-cost stuff
> even though they recommend textbooks that cost hundreds of dollars,
> some of which the recommending profs wrote; (b) garnered substantial

I'll speak here about getting profs to use software in "regular"
non-programming courses.  Even today there's a big hurdle to get profs
to use software in courses.  It's easy for a prof to fill out the textbook
order
form the bookstore sends over each term, let students provide all money
involved, then assign them to work the odd-numbered problems at the end of
chapters.  It takes a lot more energy, and is something many profs don't
know how to start doing, to get software budgeted and licensed, installed in
a lab, and then tested to make sure everything works.

Rich Herz


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How to go to newly cloned card?

[Mark MacKenzie]

I have been playing with this it feels like all day and simply cannot 
see my way through it.

Aagh.

My most recent iteration is:

on mouseUp
 if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
 then
   go card "Empty Card"
 end if
 if there is no card "Empty Card" of this stack
 then
   clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
   set the name of it to "Empty Card"
   go card "Empty Card" of this stack
 end if
end mouseUp
For several iterations now I can successsfully create a cloned card of 
the target card BUT I cannot navigate to it to allow the user to begin 
filling in the information.  It has got to be something simple I am 
missing but I am missing it and so must call upon the list to help me in 
my ignorance and frustration. 

Thank you in advance.

Mark MacKenzie

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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[Rob Cozens]

Libraries can have About menus.
I didn't think about this.

I guess they can have documentation and a demo, too.  Maybe a test suite.

They might have a control of some standard size that con be put on 
an application about window.

I wonder how much should go in a library.
I don't think there is a hard & fast rule to apply, Dar.  Serendipity 
Library's bookshelf shows six categories of handlers.  Could they 
exist in separate library stacks?...Certainly.

If some of the resources in Serendipity Library were free & open 
source and others were "pay for view", would I put them in one 
library?...Obviously not.

Would Serendipity Library look different if it were designed as a 
library for a specific standalone than a library of generic 
Transcript handlers & other resources?...Possibly.

As to the About window control, if you are providing a tool for 
others to use, try to keep it as flexible as possible.  I present 
About info in different ways in different stacks, from the 
traditional About field + RR logo to moving banner text + logo in the 
prompt field.

Engage the user at every sensory level possible, sez I.   :{`)

On a personal level, Dar, while I don't suggest for a minute that my 
answers are the best answers for everyone, you will find my answers 
to many of your questions exemplified somewhere in the files that 
comprise Serendipity Library. 
.
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: Puzzled about stack size

[Doug Lerner]

This happened to me a couple of weeks ago. A stack that was about 150K
suddenly became 3MB. It turned out that I was saving all my logging data in
a particular field and it was just growing and growing. When I cleared out
that field the saved stack size returned to just 150K.

doug

On 2/8/04 2:40 AM, "Jim Hurley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I have a stack which has one card, about 25 controls and about 800
> lines of script, no graphics, and no images. Pretty much a bare bones
> stack. It is a utility stack I use for working on database materials.
> 
> In the interest of saving space in the file, I deleted the text from
> all fields, yet the stack file shows about 6 megabytes!
> 
> I created a new stack with the same number of controls and inserted
> 800 lines of text in one of the fields. The file is about 24 K.
> 
> Now the db stack originally contained massive amounts of county
> election data. But all of that is gone now, and yet the stack is
> still 6 megs.
> 
> I know that RR does not have a separate utility to compact stack as
> in the old HC days; that is supposedly done with each save (save from
> the menu bar.)
> 
> I have many stacks with more controls, longer scripts, a few
> graphics, and images. Yet they are a fraction of the size of this one
> DB stack. What could be eating up  all this space?
> 
> Jim
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Re: How to go to newly cloned card?

[Rob Cozens]

For several iterations now I can successsfully create a cloned card 
of the target card BUT I cannot navigate to it to allow the user to 
begin filling in the information.  It has got to be something simple 
I am missing but I am missing it and so must call upon the list to 
help me in my ignorance and frustration.
Couple of thoughts, Mark.

First,

	set the name of it to "Empty Card"

appears to be invalid syntax: "the name of it" should perhaps be "the 
name of this card"

Second, Rev dictionary says re the clone command, "If the object is a 
card, the copy becomes the current card."; so you don't need to go to 
the card: you are on it once you've cloned it.

Hope this helps.
--
Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: Puzzled about stack size

[Jim Hurley]

Message: 3
Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2004 12:44:56 -0800
From: Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Puzzled about stack size
To: How to use Revolution <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"
Jim Hurley wrote:

 Following your suggestion. I deleted one field, a table field that
 showed empty. The file size dropped from 6 megs to 144 K. (By the
 way, is there a way to get the file size from within RR?)
 I restored the stack to "saved". In the message box I tried:

 put the number of lines in field "theField"

 The result was zero.

 I looked in the property  inspector for the field. The "contents"
 showed empty. I then scrolled down to
 "table." There was a long pause and eventually all the data
 reappeared. In the messages box the number of lines was now 13,234.
 I selected the field and press delete. The field showed empty--again.
 I scrolled down to "table" in the property inspector again and,
 again, after a long pause, the data was resurrected.
 Strange things are happening in table fields. This same thing happens
 > even for small amounts of data.


Richard Gaskin wrote:

When the visible eludes, check the less visible:  what's in the custom
property sets for those objects?
--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___
Richard,

A reasonable assumption, but this was a very simple stack.

These table fields are my new Zen Koan. Very ephemeral.

Try this:

1) Create a stack with a single field.
2) Go to its property inspector and under "table" check the "table 
object" and "cell editing" boxes.
3) Put something in cells a1, a2, b1 and b2 (Excel notation.) Maybe 
just four letters, a,b,c,d.
4) In the message box type: put empty into field 1 -- As expected, 
the data disappears
5) Ah, but it's not gone. Go to the property inspector again and 
select "table".
6) Voila, the data returns.

It appears that table fields have a dual personality. (Mac OS 9, RR 2.1.2)

Jim
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Re: Puzzled about stack size

[Rob Cozens]

This happened to me a couple of weeks ago. A stack that was about 150K
suddenly became 3MB. It turned out that I was saving all my logging data in
a particular field and it was just growing and growing. When I cleared out
that field the saved stack size returned to just 150K.
Likewise in durability testing SDB: inspired by a conversation with 
Jacque Gay, I wrote an auto test handler that issues a random db 
command every two seconds and logs the command and the result in a 
field so there is an "audit trail" available for debugging.

Problem was (a) since I continually added to the audit trail but 
never deleted entries, the test had to fail at some point by 
exceeding max field size or max RAM available and (b) the failure was 
generating a "connection is dead" message.  So I kept looking through 
Jan's libIPC for "connection problems" that went away once the light 
dawned and I added logic to remove the oldest line upon adding the 
100th and subsequent lines.
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: Puzzled about stack size

[Rob Cozens]

5) Ah, but it's not gone. Go to the property inspector again and 
select "table".
6) Voila, the data returns.
Is it still there if you close & reopen the stack at that point, Jim?

The AB's control list does not always seem to keep up with additions 
and deletions.  Often if I select a different card in the same stack 
(from the AB) and then reselect the original card, a deleted control 
will disappear or a newly added control will be recognized.
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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RE: Manipulating Old Dates

[Ken Norris]

on 2/7/04 12:39 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] at
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Date: Sat, 7 Feb 2004 13:57:45 -0600
> From: "Ken Ray" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: RE: Manipulating Old Dates
> 
> Rob,
> 
> In the product I'm working on with a client right now, we keep track of
> birthdates. And the way we manage it is by setting the centuryCutoff to
> one less than the current year (so right now it's "03"). This means that
> as long as someone is 99 years old or less, we're OK. It's not a perfect
> solution, but it's working so far.
-
What do we do with _really_ old dates, like weather logs from California
missions 300 years ago?

Ideas?

Ken N.

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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[Dar Scott]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 03:07 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

As to the About window control, if you are providing a tool for others 
to use, try to keep it as flexible as possible.  I present About info 
in different ways in different stacks, from the traditional About 
field + RR logo to moving banner text + logo in the prompt field.
Since a library would be used by developers and not end users except 
tinkering users, then it may not need much.  I would suppose some 
libraries are never opened, so such an about box might never get seen.

Dar

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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 11:51 AM -0700 2/7/04, Dar Scott wrote:
The information might be these:
Copyright
Contact Info
Long Unique Name
In might also include these:
file name (whatever this means)
Description
I think if these are in multiple properties, then they should share 
a prefix in the property name.


An alternative approach might be to create a custom property set to 
hold these properties.

I dislike encoding metadata into a prefix or suffix in the name 
(although it's a common practice). Creating a custom property set 
"bundles" all these properties in one handy place,

It also makes it easy to enforce the "read-only" status with a 
setProp handler, without interfering with other custom properties or 
having to list all the read-only properties in a handler.
--
jeanne a. e. devoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.jaedworks.com
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Re: MY Great Big CD Project

[Dar Scott]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 05:37 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

Well, I finished my instructive CD.
Thanks for the report, Tom.  I'm sorry it was not all pluses, but I am 
glad to have the opportunity to learn from your experience.  -- Dar

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Re: Rotating an image

[Jim MacConnell]

All,

Thanks for all your ideas.  I've made progress in that I've isolated how to
create the problem. It appears that something goes wrong when an image that
has had its "angle" set is placed in another image... Or at least that's
where I think it is.

I put a sample stack illustrating the problem so others can see if the same
happens with everyone else or if it is a memory limitation on my machine
(300 MHz Wallstreet Powerbook, 512 Ram, OS 10.2.8, Rev 2.1.2). I'd
appreciate your checking it out. You can access the stack by typing the
following into the message box.

go stack url "http://www.consensustech.com/revolution/RotationProblem.rev";

I can probably work around by using the "angle" to define the amount to
"rotate" the original image through but I hate to do that as the user may
accidentally set the rotation a few times rather than just once and that
will seriously degrade the images.

btw: I want the images to be stored in the stack.. Not as separate files so
my storage is in custom properties.

Thanks,
Jim

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Was: How to go to newly cloned card? shoudl be "Timing clone issues"

[Mark MacKenzie]

Hopefully, this is the final email on this subject.  I am still having 
error problems with the suggested handler.  Timing does seem to be an 
issue here after the cloning of a referenced card.

What works is to break up the handler with a send in 30 milliseconds 
message as follows:

on mouseUp
 if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
 then
   go card "Empty Card"
 else
   clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
   set the name of this card to "Empty Card"
   --go card "Empty Card" in 30 milliseconds   -- Rev 2.1.2 throws 
an error highlighting the 30 with this construction
   send marchingOrder to me in 30 milliseconds
 end if
end mouseUp

on marchingOrder
 go card "Empty Card"
end marchingOrder
This works and does so consistently without error.  Odd little work around.

Regards Mark

Mark MacKenzie wrote:

Great!  That timing clue probably explains the "no such object" type 
error message I was sometimes getting.

I like the use of the "else" as well.  An earlier iteration used such 
a construction but as the frustrating day wore on I dropped back to 
using more familiar simple constructions that just had to work.  I 
will incorporate both of these suggestions.

Thank you Thomas and once again to Rob.

Regards Mark MacKenzie

Thomas McGrath III wrote:

On Feb 7, 2004, at 5:45 PM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:

My most recent iteration is:

on mouseUp
 if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
 then
   go card "Empty Card"


-- end if
-- if there is no card "Empty Card" of this stack
 -- then
else
   clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
   set the name of it to "Empty Card"


   go card "Empty Card" of this stack in 30 milliseconds

 end if
end mouseUp
I had intermittent problems with the go card right after the setting 
of the name and was told to use the in 30 milliseconds which seems to 
work all the time for me. The else just replaces three lines of code. 
:-)

Tom

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541
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RE: Manipulating Old Dates

[Rob Cozens]

What do we do with _really_ old dates, like weather logs from California
missions 300 years ago?
Ideas?
Ken:

So long as we don't predate the Julian calendar, Julian date handler 
support is the first thing that comes to mind...by this I mean 
seven-digit Julian dates (DDD), not the pre-Y2K five digit 
(YYDDD) variety.

The best solution would be the present Transcript syntax with the 
added smarts to deal with multiple centuries.  I could deal with 
centuryCutoffs if Transcript were smart enough to convert short dates 
with four year digits correctly.  Eg: with default centuryCutoff, 
2/2/94 converts to 1994,2,2  I would like it to convert 2/2/1694 
to 1694,2,2... and allow "date math" (ie: adding/subtracting seconds, 
minutes, hours, days, months, and years to the appropriate item in 
the dateItem string) across centuries.
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: How to go to newly cloned card?

[Rob Cozens]

After shutting down in disgust for awhile, when opening up this 
stack project, the handler I posted about works like a charm.
I have experiences like that occasionally, Mark.

I tend to conclude that under some circumstances script changes don't 
seem to get "applied" until the stack has been saved, closed, and 
reopened.
--

Rob Cozens
CCW, Serendipity Software Company
http://www.oenolog.net/who.htm
"And I, which was two fooles, do so grow three;
Who are a little wise, the best fooles bee."
from "The Triple Foole" by John Donne (1572-1631)
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Re: MY Great Big CD Project

[Trevor DeVore]

On Feb 7, 2004, at 5:37 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

...

I will consider this CD and the use of REV a success but I am hoping 
for a few enhancements to make multimedia work better with what people 
expect ie Flash and good text formatting.
Native flash support would be a great thing to have in Revolution for 
use in creating text animations, etc.  It looks like you can get source 
code to build a player into the Revolution environment but I have no 
idea what licensing would cost:



Maybe we could start a collection pot :-)

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[J. Landman Gay]

On 2/7/04 2:18 PM, Dar Scott wrote:

I was looking to see if there was already something out there, some 
tradition the old-timers might know about.  Or maybe something somebody 
has already made up.
There is only one x-talk convention that I can think of. It was 
implemented back when HyperCard 2.0-style externals were first released. 
The convention allowed passing either of two specific parameters to an 
XCMD/XFCN and you would always get certain information back. The two 
params were:

!  -- XCMD/XFCN sytnax
?  -- author and/or copyright info
So if I had an XFCN called "getPixel", in addition to the normal 
programming parameters it accepted, I could also get this info back from it:

getPixel(?) --> getPixel(theXY [,theMonitor]);returns: RGB triplet
getPixel(!) --> Copyright 2004, JarJar Binks
--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[Dar Scott]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 05:59 PM, Jeanne A. E. DeVoto wrote:

An alternative approach might be to create a custom property set to 
hold these properties.

I dislike encoding metadata into a prefix or suffix in the name 
(although it's a common practice). Creating a custom property set 
"bundles" all these properties in one handy place,
I like this!

This also works well for grouping meta data into suites.

I was thinking that for custom controls that require a supporting 
library that some metadata would be allowed to come from the library.  
I have to think about whether this can still be done or whether it is 
important.

It also makes it easy to enforce the "read-only" status with a setProp 
handler, without interfering with other custom properties or having to 
list all the read-only properties in a handler.
Well, before you brought the custom property set idea, for each 
metadata property I was thinking of (1) a setProp to ignore the set (or 
optionally to change the value) and optionally (2) a virtual getProp.

My concern was to be friendly in the environment of the "Custom 
Properties" pane and I'm not sure how to minimize any confusion here.

However, I'm not sure how to do the "read-only" for a custom property 
set or if it is important.

Thanks for your advice.

Dar Scott

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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[Dar Scott]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 06:32 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

I was looking to see if there was already something out there, some 
tradition the old-timers might know about.  Or maybe something 
somebody has already made up.
There is only one x-talk convention that I can think of.
You anticipated my other pondering.

getPixel(?) --> getPixel(theXY [,theMonitor]);returns: RGB triplet
getPixel(!) --> Copyright 2004, JarJar Binks
In Revolution one is reserved and the other is bad syntax, but having 
this info in a regular way from externals would be good.

Dar Scott

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Re: Was: How to go to newly cloned card? shoudl be "Timing clone issues"

[J. Landman Gay]

On 2/7/04 7:16 PM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:

on mouseUp
 if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
 then
   go card "Empty Card"
 else
   clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
   set the name of this card to "Empty Card"
   --go card "Empty Card" in 30 milliseconds   -- Rev 2.1.2 throws 
an error highlighting the 30 with this construction
   send marchingOrder to me in 30 milliseconds
 end if
end mouseUp

on marchingOrder
 go card "Empty Card"
end marchingOrder
This works and does so consistently without error.  Odd little work around.
Seems to me you should be able to just stop after the "clone" command 
and you will already be on that card. Why do you need to "go" to it?

If you are cloning a card that isn't the current one, then yes, the 
cloned card will appear after the original and you may not be on it. If 
that is the case, then naming "this card" is going to name the current 
card instead of the newly cloned one. Use "set the name of IT..." which 
will name the remote clone. So, I'd do this:

if there is a card "empty card" then
  go card "empty card"
else
  clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard"  -- no need to specify the stack
-- if it is the current stack
  set the name of it to "empty card"
  go cd it
end if
That doesn't work?

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Rotating an image

[Thomas McGrath III]

At first I had no image in preview but then figured i had to click on 
the imagedata. That was correct.

After repeated rotate's all three images became garbled. once garbled I 
hit the hide original and build thumbnail and thumbnail and imagedate 
were reset and looked fine again. But preview was still garbled.

Tom

On Feb 7, 2004, at 8:08 PM, Jim MacConnell wrote:

go stack url 
"http://www.consensustech.com/revolution/RotationProblem.rev";
Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541
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Re: Manipulating Old Dates

[Dar Scott]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 05:13 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

So long as we don't predate the Julian calendar, Julian date handler 
support is the first thing that comes to mind...by this I mean 
seven-digit Julian dates (DDD), not the pre-Y2K five digit (YYDDD) 
variety.
Do you mean "don't predate the Gregorian calendar"?  I think I might be 
getting my calendars mixed up.  I confess to being confused by the term 
Julian date.

It would be nice to use any date presentation suitable for a selected 
calendar, even outside the normal range for that calendar and to do 
date math on those even when not similar.  Having a default calendar 
would be important.  Getting warning flags for dates outside of normal 
ranges might be nice but may not be practical or meaningful.

Dar Scott

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Re: Was: How to go to newly cloned card? shoudl be "Timing clone issues"

[Thomas McGrath III]

Mark,

Actually, I ended up having to do the same. I forgot just before.
It seems to me that the handler starts with no card and then creates a 
card but does not yet see it. so by leaving and going to another 
function it now 'sees' the card and can act upon it. I think the send 
in time just makes sure it has time to load the new card.

I have started to treat most of my scripts this way by putting my 
functions outside of my running script. It seems to help in a lot of 
situations.

Glad you figured it out.

Tom

On Feb 7, 2004, at 8:16 PM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:

Hopefully, this is the final email on this subject.  I am still having 
error problems with the suggested handler.  Timing does seem to be an 
issue here after the cloning of a referenced card.

What works is to break up the handler with a send in 30 milliseconds 
message as follows:

on mouseUp
 if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
 then
   go card "Empty Card"
 else
   clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
   set the name of this card to "Empty Card"
   --go card "Empty Card" in 30 milliseconds   -- Rev 2.1.2 throws 
an error highlighting the 30 with this construction
   send marchingOrder to me in 30 milliseconds
 end if
end mouseUp

on marchingOrder
 go card "Empty Card"
end marchingOrder
This works and does so consistently without error.  Odd little work 
around.

Regards Mark

Mark MacKenzie wrote:

Great!  That timing clue probably explains the "no such object" type 
error message I was sometimes getting.

I like the use of the "else" as well.  An earlier iteration used such 
a construction but as the frustrating day wore on I dropped back to 
using more familiar simple constructions that just had to work.  I 
will incorporate both of these suggestions.

Thank you Thomas and once again to Rob.

Regards Mark MacKenzie

Thomas McGrath III wrote:

On Feb 7, 2004, at 5:45 PM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:

My most recent iteration is:

on mouseUp
 if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
 then
   go card "Empty Card"


-- end if
-- if there is no card "Empty Card" of this stack
 -- then
else
   clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
   set the name of it to "Empty Card"


   go card "Empty Card" of this stack in 30 milliseconds

 end if
end mouseUp
I had intermittent problems with the go card right after the setting 
of the name and was told to use the in 30 milliseconds which seems 
to work all the time for me. The else just replaces three lines of 
code. :-)

Tom

Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541
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Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541
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Re: Was: How to go to newly cloned card? shoudl be "Timing clone issues"

[Thomas McGrath III]

Jac,

That doesn't 'always' work for me. I have had to include a send in time 
or in 30 milliseconds to get it to work 'all the time' ALSO, by putting 
it outside of the current handler I have less errors and problems FWIW.

Tom

On Feb 7, 2004, at 8:51 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

On 2/7/04 7:16 PM, Mark MacKenzie wrote:

on mouseUp
 if there is a card "Empty Card" of this stack
 then
   go card "Empty Card"
 else
   clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard" of this stack
   set the name of this card to "Empty Card"
   --go card "Empty Card" in 30 milliseconds   -- Rev 2.1.2 
throws an error highlighting the 30 with this construction
   send marchingOrder to me in 30 milliseconds
 end if
end mouseUp
on marchingOrder
 go card "Empty Card"
end marchingOrder
This works and does so consistently without error.  Odd little work 
around.
Seems to me you should be able to just stop after the "clone" command 
and you will already be on that card. Why do you need to "go" to it?

If you are cloning a card that isn't the current one, then yes, the 
cloned card will appear after the original and you may not be on it. 
If that is the case, then naming "this card" is going to name the 
current card instead of the newly cloned one. Use "set the name of 
IT..." which will name the remote clone. So, I'd do this:

if there is a card "empty card" then
  go card "empty card"
else
  clone card "BulletWeightsMasterCard"  -- no need to specify the stack
-- if it is the current stack
  set the name of it to "empty card"
  go cd it
end if
That doesn't work?

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Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541
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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[Robert Brenstein]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 03:07 PM, Rob Cozens wrote:

As to the About window control, if you are providing a tool for 
others to use, try to keep it as flexible as possible.  I present 
About info in different ways in different stacks, from the 
traditional About field + RR logo to moving banner text + logo in 
the prompt field.
Since a library would be used by developers and not end users except 
tinkering users, then it may not need much.  I would suppose some 
libraries are never opened, so such an about box might never get 
seen.

Dar
That's right. If my product uses somebody else's library, I 
should/could include a mention of it in my About box but otherwise it 
should not be (in typical program) explicitely visible to the end 
user. However, as someone said in another email in this thread, as a 
developer, I want to see more info, description, examples etc. Since 
in library only the stack scripts are the true library, the cards can 
be easily used for that documentation, examples, etc. If I use the 
library as library, I just 'start using' it. If I want to see more, I 
just 'go to' it. No need for custom properties or special conventions.

my 2 cents.

Robert
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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[Stephen Quinn Barncard]

Those params would be strings as "?" or "!" -- so that wouldn't be 
bad syntax or reserved would it?  With HC externals I always included 
the quotes just in case. It was a good convention

sqb

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 06:32 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:

getPixel(?) --> getPixel(theXY [,theMonitor]);returns: RGB triplet
getPixel(!) --> Copyright 2004, JarJar Binks
In Revolution one is reserved and the other is bad syntax, but 
having this info in a regular way from externals would be good.

Dar Scott

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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[Dar Scott]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 07:32 PM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

That's right. If my product uses somebody else's library, I 
should/could include a mention of it in my About box but otherwise it 
should not be (in typical program) explicitely visible to the end 
user. However, as someone said in another email in this thread, as a 
developer, I want to see more info, description, examples etc. Since 
in library only the stack scripts are the true library, the cards can 
be easily used for that documentation, examples, etc. If I use the 
library as library, I just 'start using' it. If I want to see more, I 
just 'go to' it.
I think this is fine for light documentation.  For heavier 
documentation this might put some overhead on the size of the stack.

I have my "primer shell".  I could improve on that and use that as the 
packaging for a "library".  Since the primer is not included in the 
product that uses the library, it can be as big as I think fitting.

If a library is delivered as a "script library", a button in the primer 
can copy that from the stack script and it can be pasted where needed.

If a library is delivered as a front or back script button, that can be 
on a page in the primer with instructions on how to paste it to a card 
or get it into an unplaced group or whatever.

If a library is best a stack then the primer can birth it to whatever 
location is needed and even start using it after doing so.  The birthed 
stack would have very light information on a card or two.  The primer 
would need to have someway of finding the library again.

If the deliverable is a custom control, the primer can have a catalog 
section and the control can be copied and pasted.  It might need 
supporting libraries and/or plugins.

If the deliverable is a plugin, then the primer can install it.

A particular primer might have any combination.

Thanks for helping me think through this.

No need for custom properties or special conventions.
Not for humans, but it might help a catalog or the setup for loading 
libraries or automated upgrading or whatever.

Dar Scott

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Re: Tagging certain objects with contact, copyright, etc

[Dar Scott]

On Saturday, February 7, 2004, at 07:50 PM, Stephen Quinn Barncard 
wrote:

Those params would be strings as "?" or "!" -- so that wouldn't be bad 
syntax or reserved would it?
Right.

Is this approach still a good idea?  Should it apply to library 
functions?

I imagine some library functions as well as some external functions 
would need to see these as valid data.

Because of some limitations of externals, I'm considering putting 
library wrappers around externals in general.

Dar Scott

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Supercard Conversion

[Stephen Quinn Barncard]

So I tried to use the Supercard project converter today... it's a 
mess. It's a SC 3.x project and uses externals. It also had trouble 
recognizing SC filetypes. I fixed the filetype part (same old OSX 
problem) but then tried to run (what I think is an external) CopyFile 
it failed.

has anyone upgraded or fixed it recently? Or do I have to find a OS 9 
version and try that. At this point it's easier just to cut and paste 
scripts.

sqb
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Long combo box buttons

[J. Landman Gay]

Has anyone figured out a way to display more than a few lines in a combo 
box list, or do I have to build my own doodad with a field? I've got 
some long lists and the few lines the standard combo box shows aren't 
enough.

Or is there an HIG restriction on the number of lines a combo box is 
supposed to have?

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Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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