Re: Player-another thought

[Judy Perry]

Isn't this a call-back to the old HC "player" days?

Judy

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Marian Petrides wrote:

> One more thought about Player, since the term player is used elsewhere
> to refer to media players (eg audio or video players), would it not be
> better to come up with a different term for the multi-platform
> standalone that is created by Dreamcard?
>
> Also, is this multi-platform "Player" created only by Dreamcard or by
> all versions?  This is not clear in the What's New file.
>
> M
>
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Re: Rev 2.5 Beta [Performance/Rev-Online/Dreamcard/...]

[Judy Perry]

I agree:

I also had to pause my mouse over the new tools palette, but I think it
was because I was doing the Rosetta Stone thing in my brain.  The new GUI
does look modern, which has to help it in the credibility market.

Also, am I mistaken, or did the new tools palette do away with my
observed modality problem?  We seemingly no longer have a browse tool and
an edit tool, merely an edit/browse tool and a resize tool?

(Sorry, I was only able to look at the 2.5 for a few before something on
my laptop's m/b overheated... haven't d/l it for the desktop yet).

Judy

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Kevin Miller wrote:

> On 22/7/04 1:31 pm, "Malte Brill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > The new toolbar: It looks more modern. I liked the old one better, but I
> > think I will get used to it.
>
> Yeah, its always tricky when we make a change to the appearance of anything.
> Ultimately though the old toolbar was really dated and we had to update it.
> I don't think we're going to be able to get something that suits everyone,
> stability was a higher priority than providing extra icon sets, and the new
> one does looks clean, modern and functional.

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Re: Disabled Button in Object Inspector - redux

[Sarah Reichelt]

Hi Jim,
I didn't answer before because I didn't have a solution. You say the 
button appears disabled in the object inspector - I guess this means 
the Disabled button is checked but you also say you can't inspect the 
button so I'm a bit confused. Possibly the button you are referring to 
is part of the object inspector rather than one of your own buttons?
Can you select the button when the pointer tool is selected? If so, try 
to use the SmartProperties plugin to check out it's status.
Try enabling & disabling the button through a script line in the 
message box to see if it changes.
Is the button underneath something that is disabled?
Is the button part of a group that is disabled?
What colors have you chosen for the button - maybe it just is set to 
look grey?

Please ask again if these ideas don't help.
Cheers,
Sarah

On 23 Jul 2004, at 8:05 am, Jim Carwardine wrote:
I'm concerned that with all the traffic on the list lately, that 
everyone
who knows is thinking that someone else will set me straight, so I'm
resubmitting this question.  There must be an embarrassing answer, but 
I
can't find it...

I have a button (checkbox button) that appears disabled (grayed out) 
in the
object inspector.  I can use it so it's "enable property" is true.  I 
can
copy and paste it and the copied button is also disabled in the 
inspector.
I can't seem to inspect this button.  I'm using Rev. 2.2 on Mac OS 9.2.
What gives?  Jim
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Re: Rev 2.5 Beta [Performance/Rev-Online/Dreamcard/...]

[Judy Perry]

Ummm, maybe it's because I'm a really crappy scripter, but my "intro to
Rev/mouse events" project I think ended up being 6 MB..

I guess I would have to go back and check to see how much space is due to
my assuming (probably correctly) that the low-end PCs wouldn't do TTS, so
I recorded my Mac doing so with a mic on my iPod and used those sound
files instead...

Judy

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Kevin Miller wrote:

> > 2.) Rev-online. I think this could become a cool place if it gets used. What
> > I really would love to see is how big in KB/MB the stacks are (I just looked
> > at it, so maybe this is somewhere I havent found yet) I created an account a
> > few minutes ago. If you download the Stack from my users section mind it is
> > 2.xx MB.
>
> I can see the point of that.  Rev Online will be used for serving videos to
> people on broadband and stacks are likely to be smaller than that, but I'll
> make a note.  I don't know if it will be in this release or the next one.

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Re: Rev 2.5b Interface

[Judy Perry]

On Thu, 22 Jul 2004, Kevin Miller wrote:

> Remember that in the release version, the Learning Center will be
> functional.  That's one of the key uses of Rev Online for new users, it
> brings access to tutorials and samples in just one click.

--This is SOOO waay kewl!

>
> > The Tools Palette
> > 1. Now it's now bigger and take up even more screen space.
>
> The icons are clearer, the previous one was too small, people had trouble
> finding things.

And the other palette thingy (the toolbar?) takes up less space (at least
it seems to me -- great on my iffy TiBook!).
>

> There certainly is a potential exposure here, in that anyone can post stacks
> to the User Spaces area.  That said, most people here know each other and an
> individual has to sign up to Rev Online to post, making it hard to be
> anonymous, so I think the risk is fairly minimal.  Anyone posting stacks
> that do damage will be removed from Rev Online.  That said, if you aren't
> sure about who is providing something then don't download it, or use the
> Player, which is a more secure environment.

I can't wait to see what people upload!

Judy
a very happy camper...

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anyone here implemented an answerList function?

[Andre Garzia]

Hi Folks,
did anyone here implemented an answerList function, like the answer 
function and give ir an array and it returns the selected choice, all 
in a nice modal dialog?

cheers
--
Andre Alves Garzia  2004  BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org
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Re: How to use database linked controls

[Andre Garzia]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 4:46 PM, Bill wrote:
Jan:
How do you get the   -- revRecordCountOfQuery(somevariable)
To work? (I tried inserting all kinds of things in the somevariable 
and got
nothing).

I want to have my various changes of the query using
 revSetSQLOfQuery "Connect",tSQLStatement to also put the subset of the
records found in a field. I would also like the arrow commands that go
through the records found to show a which record they are at related 
to the
total records found.

Bill,
Just like me, you're using "undocumented" Database Query Builder 
functions, they changed a little since 2.1. When you say subset, you're 
saying all the query? Like you execute a nice SELECT names FROM 
tableNames and want to flush all the results into a field? If this is 
the behaviour you want, then set your field to a table object then in 
the database slip choose what fields to display.

I am with 2.5beta and my version is missing the Database Query Builder 
I think, so I advise to stick to 2.2 till 2.5 leave beta stage, at 
least for apps involving DB

Cheers
andre

Should I be using the 2.5beta for my testing? If so I don't know where 
to
down load it as I never got the email about it.

Bill
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--
Andre Alves Garzia  2004
Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org
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Re: Saving as StandAlone in 2.5b1

[Hershel Fisch]

I think I have part of the answer ,
I deleted RR 2.2.1, I unchecked the data base driver's , it compiled .
Hershel.
On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 09:20 PM, Hershel Fisch wrote:
I tried to create a standAlone for some reason didn't succeed with out 
any notification, the standAlone just wasn't there.
I tried saving another MainStack with a few sub stack the message was  
"sorry there was an error saving your application"
I opened one main stack from the "open" menu it opened another one as 
well.
After playing around a bit this error came up
 	executing internal 9:04:47 PM
Type	Handler: Running low on memory, script aborted
Object	revFrontScript
Line	repeat for each line l in tOpenList
Hint	button id 1042 of card id 1002 of stack "/Applications/Revolution 
2.5b1/components/global environment/revlibrary.rev"

 	executing internal 9:04:47 PM
Type	Chunk: can't find stack
Object	revFrontScript
Line	if the substacks of stack tStack is not empty
Hint	button id 1042 of card id 1002 of stack "/Applications/Revolution 
2.5b1/components/global environment/revlibrary.rev"
One time it crashed , I tried to repeat it , didn't succeed.
Then I tried saving a single stack which did save.
Hershel,

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Ctrl-Alt-Click [Was Re: Rev 2.5 Beta - Hits]

[Alex Tweedly]

At 15:35 22/07/2004 -0600, Devin Asay wrote:
On Jul 22, 2004, at 3:07 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:
I do see an issue with the ctrl-alt-click in execute mode - it appears to 
open the script editor BUT ALSO trigger a mouse click to the stack - 
which I don't think it should.

Do you see that behaviour too ? Should it do that ?  Should I Bugzilla it ?
Confirmed. It seems it should do one or the other, not both, in execute 
mode. I think my preference is that it should only open the script editor, 
regardless of mode.
Thanks for the confirmation; I agree that's what it should do. Entered as 
Bug 1884

Am I right in thinking that a script like
on mouseUp
  if the controlKey is down and the altkey is down then
pass mouseUp to top
  end if
  pass mouseUp
end mouseUp
could be inserted as a front script without adverse side-effects.
(It seems to work, but I'm very cautions about using front-scripts - 
worried I'll interfere with something important and not realize until too 
late).

-- Alex.

---
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Saving as StandAlone in 2.5b1

[Hershel Fisch]

I tried to create a standAlone for some reason didn't succeed with out 
any notification, the standAlone just wasn't there.
I tried saving another MainStack with a few sub stack the message was  
"sorry there was an error saving your application"
I opened one main stack from the "open" menu it opened another one as 
well.
After playing around a bit this error came up
 	executing internal 9:04:47 PM
Type	Handler: Running low on memory, script aborted
Object	revFrontScript
Line	repeat for each line l in tOpenList
Hint	button id 1042 of card id 1002 of stack "/Applications/Revolution 
2.5b1/components/global environment/revlibrary.rev"

 	executing internal 9:04:47 PM
Type	Chunk: can't find stack
Object	revFrontScript
Line	if the substacks of stack tStack is not empty
Hint	button id 1042 of card id 1002 of stack "/Applications/Revolution 
2.5b1/components/global environment/revlibrary.rev"
One time it crashed , I tried to repeat it , didn't succeed.
Then I tried saving a single stack which did save.
Hershel,

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2.5b1

[Hershel Fisch]

I tried to create a standAlone for some reason didn't succeed with out 
any notification, the standAlone just wasn't there.
I tried saving another MainStack with a few sub stack the message was  
"sorry there was an error saving your application"
I opened one main stack from the "open" menu it opened another one as 
well.
After playing around a bit this error came up
 	executing internal 9:04:47 PM
Type	Handler: Running low on memory, script aborted
Object	revFrontScript
Line	repeat for each line l in tOpenList
Hint	button id 1042 of card id 1002 of stack "/Applications/Revolution 
2.5b1/components/global environment/revlibrary.rev"

 	executing internal 9:04:47 PM
Type	Chunk: can't find stack
Object	revFrontScript
Line	if the substacks of stack tStack is not empty
Hint	button id 1042 of card id 1002 of stack "/Applications/Revolution 
2.5b1/components/global environment/revlibrary.rev"
One time it crashed , I tried to repeat it , didn't succeed.
Then I tried saving a single stack which did save.
Hershel,

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Re: Windows gets shorter and shorter and shorter...

[SimPLsol]

Are you running OS X with menus you have created?
Paul Looney
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Re: Acrobat files?

[Troy Rollins]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 4:48 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:
 Perhaps the company that wrote the Director xtra would consider 
farming out a copy to a Rev developer if they felt they could sell a 
few copies over on this side.
I've made a private inquiry to the product manager of the xtra, to see 
if they have any interest in doing something for Rev, or even if it is 
feasible within their license.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

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Re: Web Delivery

[Chipp Walters]

Whoops, a typo and forgot an 'end if'
Try this:
on startStack pStackFile
  put "C:/myfolder/" into tFolderPath
  put pFolderPath & pStackFile into tFilePath
  if there is a file tFilePath then
--> STACK EXISTS SO OPEN IT
open stack tFilePath
  else
--> NO STACK FOUND SO DOWNLOAD IT FROM THE INTERNET
put "http://www.mydomain.com/"; into tURLfolder
put tURLfolder & pStackFile into tURLfile
--> DOWNLOAD THE FILE
put URL tURLfile into URL ("binfile:" & tFilePath)
--> CHECK TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANY ERRORS
put the result into tResult
if tResult is not empty then
  answer warning tResult
end if
--> MAKE SURE THE STACK EXISTS BEFORE OPENING
if there is a stack tFilePath then
   open stack tFilePath
else
  --> PROBLEM
  answer warning "Can't find file: " & tFilePath
end if
  end if
end startStack
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Re: Web Delivery

[Chipp Walters]

Gordon,
You can download the stack and store it on your disk in one fell swoop.
Consider the following:
on startStack pStackFile
  put "C:/myfolder/" into tFolderPath
  put pFolderPath & pStackFile into tFilePath
  if there is a file tFilePath then
--> STACK EXISTS SO OPEN IT
open stack tFilePath
  else
--> NO STACK FOUND SO DOWNLOAD IT FROM THE INTERNET
put "http://www.mydomain.com/"; into tURLfolder
put tURLfolder & pStackFile into tURLfile
--> DOWNLOAD THE FILE
put URL tURLfile inot URL ("binfile:" & tFilePath)
--> CHECK TO SEE IF THERE WERE ANY ERRORS
put the result into tResult
if tResult is not empty then
  answer warning tResult
end if
--> MAKE SURE THE STACK EXISTS BEFORE OPENING
if there is a stack tFilePath then
   open stack tFilePath
else
  --> PROBLEM
  answer warning "Can't find file: " & tFilePath
end if
end startStack
Of course you can add your own versioning to this as well. The error 
handling could also be a bit more robust, but you get the idea.

(this is all from memory and hasn't been tested, but IMO should run)
-Chipp
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dreamcard beta

[Revinfo1155]

Where can I download the dreamcard beta? I can't find it on the runrev website. 

jack
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Disabled Button in Object Inspector - redux

[Jim Carwardine]

I'm concerned that with all the traffic on the list lately, that everyone
who knows is thinking that someone else will set me straight, so I'm
resubmitting this question.  There must be an embarrassing answer, but I
can't find it...

I have a button (checkbox button) that appears disabled (grayed out) in the
object inspector.  I can use it so it's "enable property" is true.  I can
copy and paste it and the copied button is also disabled in the inspector.
I can't seem to inspect this button.  I'm using Rev. 2.2 on Mac OS 9.2.
What gives?  Jim
-- 

OYF is... Highly resourceful people working together.


Own Your Future Consulting Services Limited,
1959 Upper Water Street, Suite 407, Halifax, Nova Scotia. B3J 3N2
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Re: Rev 2.5 Beta - Hits

[Mark Talluto]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 2:07 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:
I do see an issue with the ctrl-alt-click in execute mode - it appears 
to open the script editor BUT ALSO trigger a mouse click to the stack 
- which I don't think it should.

Do you see that behaviour too ? Should it do that ?  Should I Bugzilla 
it ?

And I noticed the Shortcut Quickref still says "ctl-alt hover" 
And I notice that the Quickref for shortcuts comes up as editing 
rather than executing if you are in edit mode (the other quickrefs are 
ok).

I can see BZ gaining a permanently open window on my screen  :-)
I have seen that problem as well.  I have been busy reporting 
everything I have seen but did forget that one.  Be my guest on sending 
that one in.  I have revZilla up and running all the time!  I must say 
that things are getting better with every release though.  I am pretty 
excited as most of my bug reports are fixed or are being worked on as 
we speak.

--
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com
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Re: HyperScript...an andrew dream.

[Meitnik]

In a message dated 07/22/2004 05:00:49 PM, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> Almost
> all PDF viewing applications rely directly or indirectly on Acrobat
> and/or an Adobe plugin. And that's just to display the file, let alone
> break it apart and show it in some other format.
> -- Not quite so. There is the Ghostscript library and code. I started but not 
finished porting large parts of that library in x-talk over many years. 
However to really finish it, transcript needs to be finished too ;-) My dream of 
25yrs is the marriage of postscript and hypertalk ;-) It came close for a brief 
moment in freehand 3.1 but Altsys hated Hypercard. I know more but NDAs 
silence me. :( Please, I saw how intense oop of graphics could be with scripting. 
Its more than PDFs.
Lets do it!

Andrew
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Re: Rev 2.5 Beta - Hits

[Mark Talluto]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 11:01 AM, Devin Asay wrote:
2. Proportional resizing of image objects! Holding down the Shift key 
now constrains images proportionally instead of forcing it to a 
square.
I have not been able to make this happen.  I have tried this with many 
images and see them resizing as a square.  Would be nice if this 
feature was in there though.  My testing was done on XP and Mac X.

--
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com
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Re: Rev 2.5 Beta - Hits

[Devin Asay]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 3:07 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:
I do see an issue with the ctrl-alt-click in execute mode - it appears 
to open the script editor BUT ALSO trigger a mouse click to the stack 
- which I don't think it should.

Do you see that behaviour too ? Should it do that ?  Should I Bugzilla 
it ?
Confirmed. It seems it should do one or the other, not both, in execute 
mode. I think my preference is that it should only open the script 
editor, regardless of mode.

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University
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Re: Screen Size Advice

[SimPLsol]

Tom,
Back when screens were WYSIWYG (what you see is what you get) they were 72 
dpi (dots per inch) and 600 x 800 filled a 17" screen.
Today most screens are 17" or larger and flat panel screens are 90 dpi or 
higher - so 600 x 800 should work for anything but an old, non-multi-resolution, 
CRT monitor (early iMacs, for instance had 15" monitors but they were 
multi-sync so they could imitate a 17" or even a 20").
For my work I made the card size 560 x 800 to allow for the OS 7, 8 , 9 
menubar. They OS X menubar is slightly taller so 550 x 790 might be better - would 
give you a little room on each side.
Please let us know what you have decided.
Paul Looney
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Re: Acrobat files?

[Troy Rollins]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 4:58 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:
Point taken- perhaps we could find out just how much the license costs?
I *think* it was about $50k, I'm on the beta team for it.
If we got enough hands up on list saying "I'd pay $100 for that 
external"
At that price, consider me good for about 5 hands.  ;-)
 (or whatever) maybe we'd present a business case that a lurking 
external writer couldn't resist (myself included =)).
You are hardly lurking Brian. You lurk about as well as I do.  ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net
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Re: Rev 2.5b Interface

[Troy Rollins]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 6:11 PM, Derek Bump wrote:
I guess my opinion on Rev Online is this:  I will not support it in 
any way what-so-ever until some sort of Security is implimented within 
it.  It is wide open to hackers and does nothing more than provide a 
front door to an individuals system (Macintosh, Windows or 
Unix/Linux).  All they have to do is open the door.
I guess I'd have to agree that it looks a little more "communal" than I 
would care to have. An unmoderated community of users of all levels 
(and ethical levels) straight into my development environment could 
be... less than desirable. I guess I'll have to be *very* careful what 
I click on.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net
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Re: The 2.5 debugger

[SimPLsol]

Kevin,
I really don't follow your argument. 
If "I", "T", and "A" are "used for other things already...things that are so 
well remembered it could be confusing to reuse these." Then wouldn't that also 
apply to the spacebar? Especially the spacebar?
1. In the debugger one would have no reason to use "Get Info", "Text", or 
"Select All". In the debugger these keys are available (so is spacebar).
2. "I", "T", and "A" fit the names and actions of the buttons.
3. You could put "I", "T", and "A" ON the buttons: "Step Into [Command 
symbol] I"; "Trace [Command symbol] T"; "Abort [Command symbol] A". No documentation 
required.
4. Another button might be appropriate: "Close and Run [Command symbol] R".
5. To the extent possible, a GUI should communicate information through the 
interface instead of through the documentation.
Sincerely,
Paul Looney
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Re: Rev 2.5b Interface

[Derek Bump]

> > 1. How many windows can pop up at the same time?  The first time I launched it
> > both the Application Browser and Revolution Online were open (along with Tools
> > and the Menu Bar).  This definately doesn't need to happen.  Show the Menubar
> > and the tools palette.  Don't confuse the people who are new to Revolution.
> > Just because it's an update doesn't mean it's not someone's first time using
> > it.  Keep it simple.
> 
> Remember that in the release version, the Learning Center will be
> functional.  That's one of the key uses of Rev Online for new users, it
> brings access to tutorials and samples in just one click.

I think my point was missed on this one.  Don't force the user to view all 
windows/palettes the first time they launch it.  Let the user decide if they want to 
view the Application Browser.

> > The Tools Palette
> > 1. Now it's now bigger and take up even more screen space.
> 
> The icons are clearer, the previous one was too small, people had trouble
> finding things.

I feel a solution for this difference in opinion would be to allow a Choice in the 
Preferences.  Big or Small icons.  Docked or Palette.  Drag & Drop or Point & Click.

> > 2. Supports Drag & Drop but doesn't conform to the Grid.  Requiring you to
> > re-drag it to align to the grid.
> 
> That should be possible to fix.

If this got fixed then I'd love the feature!

> > 3. Does this make it easier for people to post destructive stacks?  In my
> > experience, if I were to download a program from within Revolution, I would
> > trust that it won't do anything bad to my computer.  I'm worried that
> > Revolution Online allows people to submit Trojan Horses with the appearance of
> > a trusted stack.  Is there a filter for a posted stack?
> 
> There certainly is a potential exposure here, in that anyone can post stacks
> to the User Spaces area.  That said, most people here know each other and an
> individual has to sign up to Rev Online to post, making it hard to be
> anonymous, so I think the risk is fairly minimal.  Anyone posting stacks
> that do damage will be removed from Rev Online.  That said, if you aren't
> sure about who is providing something then don't download it, or use the
> Player, which is a more secure environment.

Well, with the test I just did...it's not hard to be anonymous.  In fact, it's a Snap! 
 Get a hotmail account, request your key, setup your account and upload your stack.  I 
mean, if I loaded a stack from RevOnline and all the stack did was email my Microsoft 
PassPort information to some server in Baghdad, I'd be kind of worried.

I guess my opinion on Rev Online is this:  I will not support it in any way 
what-so-ever until some sort of Security is implimented within it.  It is wide open to 
hackers and does nothing more than provide a front door to an individuals system 
(Macintosh, Windows or Unix/Linux).  All they have to do is open the door.
 
> Thanks for the feedback.

Your Welcome.  Like I said earlier, I love Revolution and what it has done for me, but 
there are some areas that I see problems (in my opinion) and I just want to get my 
voice out there.  But thanks for listening.
 

Derek Bump
Dreamscape Software

Compress Images Easily with JPEGCompress
http://www.dreamscapesoftware.com
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Re: Acrobat files?

[Troy Rollins]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 5:01 PM, Trevor DeVore wrote:
From what I understand it was pretty expensive to create that Xtra.  I 
was involved in some discussion with a couple of people about creating 
something similar for iShell but there was a major cost issue.
Same here. But *everybody* knows iShell's user base is minimal (to say 
the least), and they blew their investor cash on fancy office space 
years ago.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net
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Re: Acrobat files?

[Trevor DeVore]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 1:57 PM, Troy Rollins wrote:
On Jul 22, 2004, at 4:48 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:
Huh. Perhaps the company that wrote the Director xtra would consider 
farming out a copy to a Rev developer if they felt they could sell a 
few copies over on this side. Sounds about right though- Adobe in my 
experience is about as anti-standard, anti-open as Macromedia and 
their Flash format =). Both publish "open standards" but make it all 
but impossible to do anything with them if you don't license 
exorbitantly expensive libraries.
Apparently not prohibitively expensive though... I mean, a company 
which makes Director xtras got it. Granted, their market is bigger, 
but still...  ;-)
From what I understand it was pretty expensive to create that Xtra.  I 
was involved in some discussion with a couple of people about creating 
something similar for iShell but there was a major cost issue.  My 
*guess* is that for this to happen for the Rev crowd right now someone 
would have to get a large project whose development costs could cover 
the creation of the external.  I could be wrong though.

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
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Re: Rev 2.5 Beta - Hits

[Alex Tweedly]

At 12:01 22/07/2004 -0600, Devin Asay wrote:
I know we are trying to air out the bugs and frustrations, but may I just 
comment on some of the hits?

Things I love about the new version:
6. Command(control)-alt-click to edit scripts instead of the unnerving 
command-alt-hover.
Yes - I agree 100%.   This is the second most useful change that I've seen; 
second only behind the fact that keyboard shortcuts now work reliably.

I do see an issue with the ctrl-alt-click in execute mode - it appears to 
open the script editor BUT ALSO trigger a mouse click to the stack - which 
I don't think it should.

Do you see that behaviour too ? Should it do that ?  Should I Bugzilla it ?
And I noticed the Shortcut Quickref still says "ctl-alt hover" 
And I notice that the Quickref for shortcuts comes up as editing rather 
than executing if you are in edit mode (the other quickrefs are ok).

I can see BZ gaining a permanently open window on my screen  :-)
-- Alex.

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Re: Acrobat files?

[Brian Yennie]

Apparently not prohibitively expensive though... I mean, a company 
which makes Director xtras got it. Granted, their market is bigger, 
but still...  ;-)
Point taken- perhaps we could find out just how much the license costs?
If we got enough hands up on list saying "I'd pay $100 for that 
external" (or whatever) maybe we'd present a business case that a 
lurking external writer couldn't resist (myself included =)).

- Brian
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Re: Acrobat files?

[Troy Rollins]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 4:48 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:
Huh. Perhaps the company that wrote the Director xtra would consider 
farming out a copy to a Rev developer if they felt they could sell a 
few copies over on this side. Sounds about right though- Adobe in my 
experience is about as anti-standard, anti-open as Macromedia and 
their Flash format =). Both publish "open standards" but make it all 
but impossible to do anything with them if you don't license 
exorbitantly expensive libraries.
Apparently not prohibitively expensive though... I mean, a company 
which makes Director xtras got it. Granted, their market is bigger, but 
still...  ;-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

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Re: Acrobat files?

[Brian Yennie]

In other words - there is no good way to use PDF files right now.  ;-)
Yep.
I agree. For the Director xtra, they used low-level Acrobat libraries, 
licensed from Adobe, I believe. The end result is extremely powerful. 
You can make your own version of Acrobat reader within Director, with 
search, fillable forms, printing, cross-document linking and PDF 
security functions all available. This is the sort of capability which 
would be truly awesome in Rev, which is arguably better suited to 
"document style" applications, as well as business apps.

In one of my current projects, I dynamically index several hundred 
complex PDF files into a high speed embedded database, and do 
full-context search among all of them, display, print, etc. Not to 
mention that I build an animated hierarchal menu for them on-the-fly, 
and have sliding panels which reveal keyword, author, etc.
Huh. Perhaps the company that wrote the Director xtra would consider 
farming out a copy to a Rev developer if they felt they could sell a 
few copies over on this side. Sounds about right though- Adobe in my 
experience is about as anti-standard, anti-open as Macromedia and their 
Flash format =). Both publish "open standards" but make it all but 
impossible to do anything with them if you don't license exorbitantly 
expensive libraries.

- Brian
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Re: Acrobat files?

[Troy Rollins]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 4:04 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:
Unfortunately there is no cross-platform and reliable way to view PDFs 
in Rev... of course, the only thing I know of that matches that 
criteria is a web browser plugin, but here are some tidbits:

1) On MacOS X, Quicktime player objects can display PDF (go Mac)
2) You can launch a URL and rely on the PDF plugin in the browser- try 
a regular "file://" style URL.
3) You can open a file with an application, although the user may have 
to locate Acrobat Reader (and have it installed)
4) An external _could_ be written to actually use the browser plugin 
in a roundabout way, but it wouldn't be easy
5) Use altBrowser on windows as a browser object and load the PDF 
using a browser plugin this plus #2 might do the trick, albeit much 
different methods per platform.
In other words - there is no good way to use PDF files right now.  ;-)
Which is pretty much what I meant. Business runs on Acrobat - even more 
than HTML. I think this is going to be an important issue for RunRev 
(or an externals developer) to consider. In my dreams, we'll ultimately 
see a new object in the tools palette, of type PDF. Click it, draw a 
rect, point the property inspector at a file. I hate to say this again, 
but, I can do this in Director (requires a pricey xtra.)

Regarding the list-member suggested import and convert, Brian said,
FWIW, I don't think you'll find this anytime soon. As evidence of how 
cryptic and hard to support the PDF format is, witness that there is 
no standard API for Windows and Apple only recently spun it's own. 
Almost all PDF viewing applications rely directly or indirectly on 
Acrobat and/or an Adobe plugin. And that's just to display the file, 
let alone break it apart and show it in some other format.
I agree. For the Director xtra, they used low-level Acrobat libraries, 
licensed from Adobe, I believe. The end result is extremely powerful. 
You can make your own version of Acrobat reader within Director, with 
search, fillable forms, printing, cross-document linking and PDF 
security functions all available. This is the sort of capability which 
would be truly awesome in Rev, which is arguably better suited to 
"document style" applications, as well as business apps.

In one of my current projects, I dynamically index several hundred 
complex PDF files into a high speed embedded database, and do 
full-context search among all of them, display, print, etc. Not to 
mention that I build an animated hierarchal menu for them on-the-fly, 
and have sliding panels which reveal keyword, author, etc.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

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Re: Screen Size Advice

[Klaus Major]

Hi Tom,
Thanks for the help, but I guess I'm getting confused with the screen 
size info.

All I really want is to decide on a smart size for my cards so I can 
position my graphics and buttons and know that they will not overflow 
anyone's screen.

When I drag a screen around until its rect is 800/600, I have plenty 
of room to work. (It's quite big!) So I guess my question is if I just 
keep all my buttons and graphics within this size area, 600/800, will 
it work for people and does it matter then what the stack's screenrect 
is? I just want to know if I develop with cards whose rects are at 
600/800 if people will have enough room. I can't seem to change the 
screenrect for the stack, whose default seems to be 1024/768.
are you possibly mistaking "the screenrect", which returns the 
dimensions of your
currently used monitor!, for "the rect of stack xyz"?

You can "set the rect of stack xyz" to whatever you want, even "...to 
the screenrect"...

See the docs for the "rect" property...
Hope that helps.
Many Thanks,
Tom
Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Re: Screen Size Advice

[Devin Asay]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 2:17 PM, Tom Cole wrote:
Thanks for the help, but I guess I'm getting confused with the screen 
size info.

All I really want is to decide on a smart size for my cards so I can 
position my graphics and buttons and know that they will not overflow 
anyone's screen.

When I drag a screen around until its rect is 800/600, I have plenty 
of room to work. (It's quite big!) So I guess my question is if I just 
keep all my buttons and graphics within this size area, 600/800, will 
it work for people and does it matter then what the stack's screenrect 
is? I just want to know if I develop with cards whose rects are at 
600/800 if people will have enough room.
If you use 800 X 600 for your stack size virtually everyone will be 
able to fit it onto their screen, given today's monitor standards.

I can't seem to change the screenrect for the stack, whose default 
seems to be 1024/768.
The screenRect function has nothing to do with the size of your stack 
window; it simply queries the operating system and returns the current 
screen resolution setting. Nothing you do in Revolution will change 
this setting; you have to go to your computer's Control Panels/System 
Preferences to change it.

Devin
Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University
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Re: Screen Size Advice

[Brian Yennie]

Tom,
I think you are confusing screenRect with your stack's rect. 
"screenRect" reports the size of your computer screen, and since yours 
is set to 1024x768 that is what it always reports for you. On the other 
hand, you can set your stack's "rect", "height" and "width".

One thing to note- if you want to run on a 800x600 resolution, you will 
want to make your stack slightly smaller than that for platforms that 
have menubars, start menus, etc that take up screen space on top of 
your application.

HTH
Thanks for the help, but I guess I'm getting confused with the screen 
size info.

All I really want is to decide on a smart size for my cards so I can 
position my graphics and buttons and know that they will not overflow 
anyone's screen.

When I drag a screen around until its rect is 800/600, I have plenty 
of room to work. (It's quite big!) So I guess my question is if I just 
keep all my buttons and graphics within this size area, 600/800, will 
it work for people and does it matter then what the stack's screenrect 
is? I just want to know if I develop with cards whose rects are at 
600/800 if people will have enough room. I can't seem to change the 
screenrect for the stack, whose default seems to be 1024/768.

Many Thanks,
Tom
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Re: Screen Size Advice

[Marian Petrides]

Try this as a quick and dirty solution (at least until you master the 
Geometry Manager--I haven't tried it yet).

What I do is use the following in my OpenStack handler:
 If the screenRect <> 0,0,800,600 then
set the rect of this stack to 100,100,900,700
  else
set the rect of this stack to the screenRect
  end if
The resultant stack is always 800 X 600 in size (didn't want to mess 
with the Geometry Manager) but on a 1024 X 768 system it just fills 
less of the screen and the fonts look smaller (and consequently 
crisper).  The first half of the condition simply avoids having the 
stack stuck exactly in the upper left corner of the screen (which looks 
unnatural to me) on systems with resolution greater than 800 X 600.

Try it in a demo stack of your own making and see if it will do the 
trick.

M

On Jul 22, 2004, at 4:17 PM, Tom Cole wrote:
Thanks for the help, but I guess I'm getting confused with the screen 
size info.

All I really want is to decide on a smart size for my cards so I can 
position my graphics and buttons and know that they will not overflow 
anyone's screen.

When I drag a screen around until its rect is 800/600, I have plenty 
of room to work. (It's quite big!) So I guess my question is if I just 
keep all my buttons and graphics within this size area, 600/800, will 
it work for people and does it matter then what the stack's screenrect 
is? I just want to know if I develop with cards whose rects are at 
600/800 if people will have enough room. I can't seem to change the 
screenrect for the stack, whose default seems to be 1024/768.

Many Thanks,
Tom
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Screen Size Advice

[Tom Cole]

Thanks for the help, but I guess I'm getting confused with the screen 
size info.

All I really want is to decide on a smart size for my cards so I can 
position my graphics and buttons and know that they will not overflow 
anyone's screen.

When I drag a screen around until its rect is 800/600, I have plenty of 
room to work. (It's quite big!) So I guess my question is if I just 
keep all my buttons and graphics within this size area, 600/800, will 
it work for people and does it matter then what the stack's screenrect 
is? I just want to know if I develop with cards whose rects are at 
600/800 if people will have enough room. I can't seem to change the 
screenrect for the stack, whose default seems to be 1024/768.

Many Thanks,
Tom
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Re: Importing pdf files or working with PDF files in player object

[Brian Yennie]

FWIW, I don't think you'll find this anytime soon. As evidence of how 
cryptic and hard to support the PDF format is, witness that there is no 
standard API for Windows and Apple only recently spun it's own. Almost 
all PDF viewing applications rely directly or indirectly on Acrobat 
and/or an Adobe plugin. And that's just to display the file, let alone 
break it apart and show it in some other format.

I vote for a way to import a PDF file directly into a card so that all 
the
graphics in the PDF file become runrev vector graphics and all the 
fonts are
placed in fields right where they were -- kind of like when you import 
a PDF
into Adobe Illustrator. This would be the ideal feature for me 
although some
way to work with a PDF file that is in a player object (put data into
fields) would be OK too.
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Re: Acrobat files?

[Brian Yennie]

Troy,
Unfortunately there is no cross-platform and reliable way to view PDFs 
in Rev... of course, the only thing I know of that matches that 
criteria is a web browser plugin, but here are some tidbits:

1) On MacOS X, Quicktime player objects can display PDF (go Mac)
2) You can launch a URL and rely on the PDF plugin in the browser- try 
a regular "file://" style URL.
3) You can open a file with an application, although the user may have 
to locate Acrobat Reader (and have it installed)
4) An external _could_ be written to actually use the browser plugin in 
a roundabout way, but it wouldn't be easy
5) Use altBrowser on windows as a browser object and load the PDF using 
a browser plugin this plus #2 might do the trick, albeit much different 
methods per platform.

HTH
Hey folks,
One of the big missing items in Rev (of the very few) for me is the 
ability to display and work with Acrobat PDF files. Has anyone done 
anything with PDFs? Either by remotely controlling Acrobat viewer, or 
via an external of some kind... or even considered the possibility? 
Just looking to open some discussion in order to gauge interest, or to 
see if any techniques have been developed.
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net

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Importing pdf files or working with PDF files in player object

[Bill]

I vote for a way to import a PDF file directly into a card so that all the
graphics in the PDF file become runrev vector graphics and all the fonts are
placed in fields right where they were -- kind of like when you import a PDF
into Adobe Illustrator. This would be the ideal feature for me although some
way to work with a PDF file that is in a player object (put data into
fields) would be OK too.

On 7/22/04 2:02 PM, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Jul 22, 2004, at 12:53 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
>> On Macintosh systems only (where QuickTime is present), you can display
>> Acrobat PDF files by simply creating a player object in your stack and
>> giving it a path to the PDF file. This does not work on Windows even if
>> you have the latest version of QuickTime installed.
> 
> Yes thanks, while I haven't done that in Rev, I assumed it to be the
> case, given QuickTime's features. But, as you know and have indicated,
> that technique has limited viability for distribution outside of the
> Mac audience... e.g. most computer users.
> 
> I'd love to see some way to either work elegantly hand-in-hand with
> Acrobat viewer, or be able to directly work with and display PDF files
> within Rev, on a cross platform level. Ideally, with links, view, and
> print functions intact.



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How to use database linked controls

[Bill]

Jan:

How do you get the   -- revRecordCountOfQuery(somevariable)
To work? (I tried inserting all kinds of things in the somevariable and got
nothing).

I want to have my various changes of the query using
 revSetSQLOfQuery "Connect",tSQLStatement to also put the subset of the
records found in a field. I would also like the arrow commands that go
through the records found to show a which record they are at related to the
total records found.

Should I be using the 2.5beta for my testing? If so I don't know where to
down load it as I never got the email about it.

Bill


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RE: scrollbar problems: Scrolling a blank stack

[Ken Ray]

> >> 1) Select the group and go into edit mode.
> >> 2) Create a button in the upper-left corner
> >> 3) Exit edit mode.
> >> 4) Scroll the group down to the lower-right corner
> >> 5) Go back into edit mode.
> >> 6) Create a button in the lower-right corner
> >> 7) Exit edit mode.
> 
> Since v2.1 it's much simpler:  you can set the boundingRect 
> of a group 
> to define the scrollable area, without having to create objects to 
> define the bounds.

Sorry Richard, you missed my post prior to Bob's where I explained all of
that. 

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/



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Re: Web Delivery

[Gordon Tillman]

Klaus thank you very much!

...because I found a hidden folder in my home directory called 
".revolution" that has a "urlcache" folder in it.  And it has files 
in it, even if I quit the Revolution application.  Now I'm thinking 
the contents of that folder are those files loaded as a result of a 
"load URL ..." command being used somewhere in RR, perhaps by the 
"Revolution Online Viewer".
That invisible folder is only for the "Revolution online" cache and 
has nothing to do with "load url..."
Click the rev logo in the topright corner of "Rev online", there you 
can define the maximum size for that folder...

Very interesting!  This is a lot more fun than the (ahem, boring) work 
stuff I'm supposed to be doing!

--gordon
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Re: Web Delivery

[Klaus Major]

Hi Gordon,
Thanks for the feedback!
Björnke I had wondered about this
You are partly wrong about the caching. When a stack (or anything 
else) is downloaded it gets cached into the memory (!), thus it 
cannot be preserved over a restart of the application. You need to 
save the stack to the hard disk yourself, for it to be available 
after a restart of the app.
...because I found a hidden folder in my home directory called 
".revolution" that has a "urlcache" folder in it.  And it has files in 
it, even if I quit the Revolution application.  Now I'm thinking the 
contents of that folder are those files loaded as a result of a "load 
URL ..." command being used somewhere in RR, perhaps by the 
"Revolution Online Viewer".
That invisible folder is only for the "Revolution online" cache and has 
nothing to do with "load url..."
Click the rev logo in the topright corner of "Rev online", there you 
can define the maximum size for that folder...

Klaus, this does make sense:
But maybe NOT with the new REV player, as far as i remember, Kevin 
told that it would start
in "secureMode", which would make a lot of sense ;-)...
In any event, some pretty nifty technology here!
That's true :-)
--gordon
Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Re: Web Delivery

[Gordon Tillman]

Thanks for the feedback!
Björnke I had wondered about this
You are partly wrong about the caching. When a stack (or anything 
else) is downloaded it gets cached into the memory (!), thus it cannot 
be preserved over a restart of the application. You need to save the 
stack to the hard disk yourself, for it to be available after a 
restart of the app.
...because I found a hidden folder in my home directory called 
".revolution" that has a "urlcache" folder in it.  And it has files in 
it, even if I quit the Revolution application.  Now I'm thinking the 
contents of that folder are those files loaded as a result of a "load 
URL ..." command being used somewhere in RR, perhaps by the "Revolution 
Online Viewer".

Klaus, this does make sense:
But maybe NOT with the new REV player, as far as i remember, Kevin 
told that it would start
in "secureMode", which would make a lot of sense ;-)...
In any event, some pretty nifty technology here!
--gordon
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Re: Unusual occurrence - An OS X prob not a Rev prob

[Devin Asay]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 9:41 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:
On Jul 22, 2004, at 11:25 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:
Also, in the process of trying 2.5 out I had the following unusual 
(but reproducible) occurrence.   Run 2.5b1 in Mac OS X 10.3.4.  
Create a new mainstack with one field and one button. Verify that the 
only stack present in Application Browser is the new stack (call it 
TestStack). Save Test Stack.  Then save TestStack as standalone. Quit 
Rev.

Run standalone:  works fine, one field one button AOK
Double-click on TestStack.Rev (non-standalone file).  IDE opens with 
TestStack in foreground and an entirely different stack (the main 
stack for the project I just completed) behind it.  What gives??? Why 
is this happening?  A bug or something I missed doing when I created 
the
Figured this out at last.  It isn't a Rev thing, it's an OS X thing.  
Somehow the default app for Rev files got set to be my splash screen 
standalone and not Rev 2.x.  Bizarre, since I KNOW I never set it up 
this way, but... this is a non-issue (phew!).
This reminds us how important it is to choose a unique Creator Type for 
Mac applications of all flavors (Classic and X.) Assigning a unique 
creator type to each standalone app should prevent this, ehm, feature 
from happening. Don't forget to register your creator type with Apple 
to avoid conflicts with other apps.

Devin
Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University
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Re: urgent QTversion question...

[FlexibleLearning]

 
I don't think you can stop it once initiated...
"If you have already used QuickTime during the current session, setting the  
dontUseQT property to true has no effect, because the code for Revolution to 
use  QuickTime is already loaded into memory and will continue to be used until 
you  quit the application."
 
/H
 
 
a message dated 22/07/2004 19:05:52 GMT Daylight Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> Why  does the engine have to load QT, if we simply want to know
> what  version is installed?

You're right, it shouldn't have to load QT if  that's what's happening.

I assume you've tried this but does setting  the dontUseQT to false before
checking the version prevent it from  loading?  If it worked, I'd think you
could set the dontUseQT to to  true afterward, if you want.  Just a  crazy
suggestion...


 
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Rev 2.5 Beta - Hits

[Devin Asay]

I know we are trying to air out the bugs and frustrations, but may I 
just comment on some of the hits?

Things I love about the new version:
1. The improved image library. Finally, a really clean, usable library. 
Although I'd still like to see thumbnails of large imported images 
rather than a chunk out of the middle of the image, at least the 
portion showed is larger now, giving us a better chance of visually 
identifying which image it is. And now with 2-dimensional resizing of 
the library window, the visible portions of large images also grow or 
shrink along with the windows. Great work!

2. Proportional resizing of image objects! Holding down the Shift key 
now constrains images proportionally instead of forcing it to a square.

3. One vote in favor of the new look of the tools palette icons. They 
are much clearer; I can see at a glance what the new control will look 
like. Especially helpful for the various styles of menu buttons and 
scrollbars.

4. The ability to Hide/Reveal graphic objects and paint tools on the 
tool palette. Brilliant, especially bringing the paint tools onto the 
same palette with all the others, where they belonged all along.

5. The redesigned documentation. A few quibbles remain, but in general 
a huge leap forward from its multi-window, screen-gobbling predecessor.

6. Command(control)-alt-click to edit scripts instead of the unnerving 
command-alt-hover.

I'm sure I'll discover more hits (and some bugs) as I continue to test. 
All-in-all an impressive release of our favorite development tool.

Devin
Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University
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Re: Thank you all !

[Pierre Sahores]

Congratulations, Maxence !
Best,
Le 22 juil. 04, à 16:58, [EMAIL PROTECTED] a écrit :
I wanted to thank you all, members of the Revolution mailing list, for
your help.
I thank in particular :
Dar Scott, Jan Schenkel, Andre Garzia, Troy Rollins, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED],
Klaus Major, Mark Wieder,and Sarah Reichelt.

I finished my Revolution application on time, and it works perfectly !
See you soon... maybe
Maxence BERNARD
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100, rue de Paris
F - 77140 Nemours
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GSM:   +33 6 03 95 77 70
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Re: Web Delivery

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 22 juil. 04, à 18:29, Gordon Tillman a écrit :
Greetings All!
If I understand correctly, and please do let me know if this is not 
right...

It is entirely possible to implement a RR application using something 
along these lines:

First have a "Startup" piece that is a compiled standalone for each of 
the platforms you are supporting.  Or else, with the new beta stuff, 
have a Startup stack that is run via the "Revolution Player".
True !
Either way, you have a Startup piece that runs and does a "go stack 
URL whatever", or a "go stack decompress(URL whatever)" as appropriate 
to load your actual application and run it.
True again !
I'm guessing that the stack that you load via the URL is cached.  Is 
that correct?  And if so, the next time the user runs the application, 
is that cached version automatically run?
It's up to you... For some apps you can need to choose always to reload 
the stack from the remote server. Else, the way you are thinking about 
is full suitable. I use both thoses two solutions to run differents 
applications.
When the Startup code issues the "go stack URL..." stuff, will it 
still check online to see if the cached stack is different or has 
expired?  If the user does not have an Internet connection on 
subsequent runs of the application, but does have a cached version 
present on their computer, will the cached version still be loaded?
True again !
Many thanks!
--gordon
Best,

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Re: The 2.5 debugger

[Mark Wieder]

Kevin-

Thursday, July 22, 2004, 7:50:05 AM, you wrote:

KM> They are the most obvious keyboard shortcuts we could think of.  You
KM> probably want to step-into lots of times in a script.  Pressing space is a
KM> really simple and easy way to do this.  Try it for a while and see how you
KM> find it - it might just take some getting used to?

Personally, I'd love to have these keyboard shortcuts as preferences
so I (and others) could remap them to function keys or some other
sequence that seems more intuitive. Obviously the choice of shortcuts
is very subjective, and I think the ability to set them from the
preference panel would be quite a Good Thing. (and would pretty much
end the arguments of "why did you map x to key y?") But thank you and
the team for mapping these to *something* anyway.

KM> these.  (Command-w only works to run because closing the window, even with
KM> the mouse, executes run.)

I never realized this. I always click "run" before closing the window.

-- 
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Web Delivery

[Klaus Major]

Hi Gordon,
Greetings All!
If I understand correctly, and please do let me know if this is not 
right...
It is entirely possible to implement a RR application using something 
along these lines:

First have a "Startup" piece that is a compiled standalone for each of 
the platforms you are supporting.  Or else, with the new beta stuff, 
have a Startup stack that is run via the "Revolution Player".

Either way, you have a Startup piece that runs and does a "go stack 
URL whatever", or a "go stack decompress(URL whatever)" as appropriate 
to load your actual application and run it.
Yes, true so far :-)
I'm guessing that the stack that you load via the URL is cached.  Is 
that correct?
Yes.
And if so, the next time the user runs the application, is that cached 
version automatically run?
No, the cache is only present as long as your app runs...
After that it is being cleared, like TEMP files, sorry.
When the Startup code issues the "go stack URL..." stuff, will it 
still check online to see if the cached
stack is different or has expired?  If the user does not have an 
Internet connection on subsequent
runs of the application, but does have a cached version present on 
their computer, will the cached
version still be loaded?
See above...
But you can save the loaded stacks to the users hd if you like.
But maybe NOT with the new REV player, as far as i remember, Kevin told 
that it would start
in "secureMode", which would make a lot of sense ;-)...

See the docs for "secureMode"...
Many thanks!
--gordon
Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Re: Web Delivery

[Björnke von Gierke]

You are partly wrong about the caching. When a stack (or anything else) 
is downloaded it gets cached into the memory (!), thus it cannot be 
preserved over a restart of the application. You need to save the stack 
to the hard disk yourself, for it to be available after a restart of 
the app.

On Jul 22 2004, at 18:29, Gordon Tillman wrote:
Greetings All!
If I understand correctly, and please do let me know if this is not 
right...

It is entirely possible to implement a RR application using something 
along these lines:

First have a "Startup" piece that is a compiled standalone for each of 
the platforms you are supporting.  Or else, with the new beta stuff, 
have a Startup stack that is run via the "Revolution Player".

Either way, you have a Startup piece that runs and does a "go stack 
URL whatever", or a "go stack decompress(URL whatever)" as appropriate 
to load your actual application and run it.

I'm guessing that the stack that you load via the URL is cached.  Is 
that correct?  And if so, the next time the user runs the application, 
is that cached version automatically run?

When the Startup code issues the "go stack URL..." stuff, will it 
still check online to see if the cached stack is different or has 
expired?  If the user does not have an Internet connection on 
subsequent runs of the application, but does have a cached version 
present on their computer, will the cached version still be loaded?

Many thanks!
--gordon
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Re: Transcript version of this AppleScript

[Alex Tweedly]

At 11:08 22/07/2004 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I've got an Applescript below that converts a text string into a
format that IE's plist config file understands.   (I'm trying to
save a new URL into IE's default homepage prefs)
set s to "http://www.google.com/";
set s to (ASCII character (count s)) & s
do shell script "echo -n " & quoted form of s & " | openssl base64"
Can anyone tell me how this could be converted to work as a
Transcript solution?   The base64 encoding is easy - - - it's
the ASCII character count part that I'm not sure
how to convert into Transcript
I think that would be
   put numToChar(number of characters of s) into t
   put t & s into s
  etc.
PS: you can probably do it in a single statement, but I prefer to take two 
steps while I'm not quite sure of the correct way to write it.

PPS: I have no knowledge of Applescript, but I'm guessing the code above 
has the obvious meaning ...

-- Alex.

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Re: urgent QTversion question...

[Klaus Major]

Hi Scott,
Recently, "Klaus Major" wrote:
Well, that's my name actually, so no need for quotes :-D
Why does the engine have to load QT, if we simply want to know
what version is installed?
You're right, it shouldn't have to load QT if that's what's happening.
I assume you've tried this but does setting the dontUseQT to false 
before
checking the version prevent it from loading?  If it worked, I'd think 
you
could set the dontUseQT to to true afterward, if you want.  Just a 
crazy
suggestion...
Woahwow... What a "far out" suggestion :-)
But hey, being not paranoid does not mean necessarily that they are not 
after you ;-)

I might give this a try (although this sounds very sick to me ;-)
Thanks!
Regards,
Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com
Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Web Delivery

[Gordon Tillman]

Greetings All!
If I understand correctly, and please do let me know if this is not 
right...

It is entirely possible to implement a RR application using something 
along these lines:

First have a "Startup" piece that is a compiled standalone for each of 
the platforms you are supporting.  Or else, with the new beta stuff, 
have a Startup stack that is run via the "Revolution Player".

Either way, you have a Startup piece that runs and does a "go stack URL 
whatever", or a "go stack decompress(URL whatever)" as appropriate to 
load your actual application and run it.

I'm guessing that the stack that you load via the URL is cached.  Is 
that correct?  And if so, the next time the user runs the application, 
is that cached version automatically run?

When the Startup code issues the "go stack URL..." stuff, will it still 
check online to see if the cached stack is different or has expired?  
If the user does not have an Internet connection on subsequent runs of 
the application, but does have a cached version present on their 
computer, will the cached version still be loaded?

Many thanks!
--gordon
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Re: urgent QTversion question...

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, "Klaus Major" wrote:

> Why does the engine have to load QT, if we simply want to know
> what version is installed?

You're right, it shouldn't have to load QT if that's what's happening.

I assume you've tried this but does setting the dontUseQT to false before
checking the version prevent it from loading?  If it worked, I'd think you
could set the dontUseQT to to true afterward, if you want.  Just a crazy
suggestion...

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Development & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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Re: Express to Dreamcard

[Alex Tweedly]

At 16:58 22/07/2004 +0100, Kevin Miller wrote:
On 22/7/04 4:05 pm, "Alex Tweedly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Dreamcard is good news for the community as a whole, we're very excited
>> about the possibilities it opens up.
>
> I'm not sure I understand properly just exactly what the Player does allow.
> The Player in the 2.5B1 distribution only allows me to connect to Rev
> on-line; does that mean I can't send a stack directly to a Player-owner and
> have them use it ? Can they only get it via Rev online ?
You can send them a stack and run it directly with the Player.  Express used
to only allow delivery on the same platform it was purchased on, with the
Player you can deliver to all of them.
Cool !  That's what I hoped for, but the 2.5B1 seemed to be different.
So - how about commission sales ? :-)
Every sale of Dreamcard (or indeed any Rev product) generated directly from 
a player distributed by me should trigger a commission payment of 0.1% of 
the sale price to me.  Make it virtual commission, payable in Loyalty 
Points which can be redeemed against my next update fee.

[ I think I'm joking ... ]

The problem we were faced with was this:  
Very clear explanation of the problem and the reasonableness of the 
solution - thanks.
My mistake was to assume that you'd done what most companies do - one price 
in UK, one price everywhere else.

If I knew enough about currency trading to have worthwhile suggestions, I'd 
ask you to join me in the Bahamas to discuss them :-)

Thanks again, Kevin.
-- Alex.

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Re: Express to Dreamcard

[Bob Hartley]

At 16:58 22/07/2004, you wrote:
On 22/7/04 4:05 pm, "Alex Tweedly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> Dreamcard is good news for the community as a whole, we're very excited
>> about the possibilities it opens up.
>
> I'm not sure I understand properly just exactly what the Player does allow.
> The Player in the 2.5B1 distribution only allows me to connect to Rev
> on-line; does that mean I can't send a stack directly to a Player-owner and
> have them use it ? Can they only get it via Rev online ?
You can send them a stack and run it directly with the Player.  Express used
to only allow delivery on the same platform it was purchased on, with the
Player you can deliver to all of them.
I'm warming to the runtime now.

The problem we were faced with was this: over the last couple of years, the
dollar has slid enormously relative to the pound.  We used to tie all our
prices against the dollar, even the UK prices were billed in dollars.  It
was simpler to have one price, and the dollar was the most commonly used.
The problem was that as that slid, *all* our sales to all countries,
including the UK, started to slide as well, as they were fixed against this
value.  This was a really bad situation to be in.  One option was simply to
increase the product price.  The problem with that was that the US market is
very competitive in relation to software, and our research indicated that it
would damage our sales to increase prices across the board in this market.
So the other option was to start tying prices in markets other than the US
to prices to our native currency, here in the UK.  We ended up splitting the
pricing such that the UK and all international prices are fixed against the
pound, and only US citizens can purchase from us in dollars.  The price is
still the same for US citizens - remember that a dollar in the US is still
worth a dollar to someone living in the US, it hasn't "slid" over the past
couple of years relative to that market.  And the price in the rest of the
world is exactly the same as it was before the dollar currency slide, and
the same as it will be when the dollar recovers.  We're still substantially
worse off because of the high volume of US sales that we do, but at least
we're not losing money in Europe and Australia because the *US* dollar is so
weak.  What we're doing isn't any different from what most other companies
do, and we really do not have a choice.  That's just how it is - if anyone
with experience with international currency trading has wishes to propose a
different solution, feel free to email me off list!

Ok that is clear and acceptable to me.
Out  of interest. I used to have a PUB and a 1/4 gill (measure ) + a beer 
was 99p (yes I am that old) the price of a whisky went up so the total came 
to £1.02 (above the psychological level) and sales fell dramatically. So we 
reduced the measure to 1/5th a gill and charged 98p

Sales rocketed again. Even although the customer was getting poor deal.
i now see how the global price is £ but the USA is kept special because of 
the 199 barrier etc.

Is the special upgrade from express to studio still $99? :-)
Sorry kevin, I could not resist this.
All the best
Bob; Sunny Glasgow
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Re: Rev Player

[Hershel Fisch]

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 11:32 AM, Klaus Major wrote:
Hi all,
after i once started the Rev player i find a 2.2 MB "executable unix 
file"
called "Revolution Launcher" in my REV folder...
I Had the same thing, I didn't know what that was, I thought that 
didn't realize that there was another file on till Klaus brought this 
up.
Hershel
Any hints?
Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
P.S.
Looks like the REV player will load "Rev online" when doubleclicked,
but only as long it is in the same folder as REV...
Put it somewhere else and nothing will happen on doubleclick...
OK, i might have exspected something like the SuperCard player where 
an open dialog
would pop uzp to let the user select a SuperCard stack...

But when dropping a stack on that icon, it work as exspected :-)
And i am sure, if REV is NOT on our HD, the player will start when we 
doubleclick a
rev stack in the finder... Not tested on windows yet...

This is COOOL, so we don't have to create something like that on our 
own ;-)
But there might be an issue with (not present) externals...

But is it just the first beta ;-)
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Re: Player-another thought

[Mark Brownell]

on 7/22/04 8:50 AM, Marian Petrides at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> One more thought about Player, since the term player is used elsewhere
> to refer to media players (eg audio or video players), would it not be
> better to come up with a different term for the multi-platform
> standalone that is created by Dreamcard?

It got me this morning. I was responding to Malte Brill who was talking with
others about QT and I might have morphed his player question to my player
answer regarding a CD ROM auto play. err...

Mark

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Re: urgent QTversion question...

[Mark Talluto]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 7:43 AM, Klaus Major wrote:
ANY opinion is very welcome!
C'mon, just one line ;-)
This is a problem.  At present you have the following options:
1.  Test for the version the first time the app runs.  Maybe have your 
app run invisible the first time.  You can set a flag for that.
2.  If it finds that an older version of QT is available then you set 
another flag to turn off QT on the next startup.  Then have your app 
quit and restart automatically.  Else continue on happily.
3.  When it runs for the second time, it checks the flag and turns off 
QT.

This is the no user needed method.
Uglier would be to notify the user and have them restart the app.
In the enddown the roadmaybe there is a crossplatform way for 
the rev devs to make this check without loading QT in.

--
Best regards,
Mark Talluto
http://www.canelasoftware.com
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Re: Express to Dreamcard

[Marian Petrides]

Fascinating. Thanks for the explanation, Kevin.
The problem we were faced with was this: over the last couple of 
years, the
dollar has slid enormously relative to the pound.  We used to tie all 
our
prices against the dollar, even the UK prices were billed in dollars.  
It
was simpler to have one price, and the dollar was the most commonly 
used.
The problem was that as that slid, *all* our sales to all countries,
including the UK, started to slide as well, as they were fixed against 
this
value.  This was a really bad situation to be in.  One option was 
simply to
increase the product price.  The problem with that was that the US 
market is
very competitive in relation to software, and our research indicated 
that it
would damage our sales to increase prices across the board in this 
market.
So the other option was to start tying prices in markets other than 
the US
to prices to our native currency, here in the UK.  We ended up 
splitting the
pricing such that the UK and all international prices are fixed 
against the
pound, and only US citizens can purchase from us in dollars.  The 
price is
still the same for US citizens - remember that a dollar in the US is 
still
worth a dollar to someone living in the US, it hasn't "slid" over the 
past
couple of years relative to that market.  And the price in the rest of 
the
world is exactly the same as it was before the dollar currency slide, 
and
the same as it will be when the dollar recovers.  We're still 
substantially
worse off because of the high volume of US sales that we do, but at 
least
we're not losing money in Europe and Australia because the *US* dollar 
is so
weak.  What we're doing isn't any different from what most other 
companies
do, and we really do not have a choice.  That's just how it is - if 
anyone
with experience with international currency trading has wishes to 
propose a
different solution, feel free to email me off list!

Kind regards,
Kevin
Kevin Miller ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
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Re: Rev 2.5b Interface

[Hershel Fisch]

On Thursday, July 22, 2004, at 10:49 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:
On 22/7/04 4:08 am, "Hershel Fisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I had the same problem the second and third time with an additional
error "check the internet connection"
We're been made aware of some issues with Rev Online in this beta on
Windows.
I had the problem on the Mac OSX .
 They will be addressed shortly.  Thanks for the feedback.
Kevin Miller ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
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Re: Express to Dreamcard

[Kevin Miller]

On 22/7/04 4:05 pm, "Alex Tweedly" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Dreamcard is good news for the community as a whole, we're very excited
>> about the possibilities it opens up.
> 
> I'm not sure I understand properly just exactly what the Player does allow.
> The Player in the 2.5B1 distribution only allows me to connect to Rev
> on-line; does that mean I can't send a stack directly to a Player-owner and
> have them use it ? Can they only get it via Rev online ?

You can send them a stack and run it directly with the Player.  Express used
to only allow delivery on the same platform it was purchased on, with the
Player you can deliver to all of them.

>> If you have a VAT registered
>> business you can claim it back. As for the rest of the price comparison, if
>> you look at the progression of the US/UK exchange rate over the last few
>> years you'll realise it became imperative for us to set the UK price at a
>> firm figure rather than continue to watch it slide into oblivion.
> 
> The US price (as converted into GBP) has been "sliding into oblivion", why
> is it imperative to make the UK price behave differently ?  You have needed
> to adjust your business model and/or prices to account for the decreasing
> income in real terms from the majority of international customers - why
> penalize the relatively small number of domestic ones.

The problem we were faced with was this: over the last couple of years, the
dollar has slid enormously relative to the pound.  We used to tie all our
prices against the dollar, even the UK prices were billed in dollars.  It
was simpler to have one price, and the dollar was the most commonly used.
The problem was that as that slid, *all* our sales to all countries,
including the UK, started to slide as well, as they were fixed against this
value.  This was a really bad situation to be in.  One option was simply to
increase the product price.  The problem with that was that the US market is
very competitive in relation to software, and our research indicated that it
would damage our sales to increase prices across the board in this market.
So the other option was to start tying prices in markets other than the US
to prices to our native currency, here in the UK.  We ended up splitting the
pricing such that the UK and all international prices are fixed against the
pound, and only US citizens can purchase from us in dollars.  The price is
still the same for US citizens - remember that a dollar in the US is still
worth a dollar to someone living in the US, it hasn't "slid" over the past
couple of years relative to that market.  And the price in the rest of the
world is exactly the same as it was before the dollar currency slide, and
the same as it will be when the dollar recovers.  We're still substantially
worse off because of the high volume of US sales that we do, but at least
we're not losing money in Europe and Australia because the *US* dollar is so
weak.  What we're doing isn't any different from what most other companies
do, and we really do not have a choice.  That's just how it is - if anyone
with experience with international currency trading has wishes to propose a
different solution, feel free to email me off list!

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools

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Player-another thought

[Marian Petrides]

One more thought about Player, since the term player is used elsewhere 
to refer to media players (eg audio or video players), would it not be 
better to come up with a different term for the multi-platform 
standalone that is created by Dreamcard?

Also, is this multi-platform "Player" created only by Dreamcard or by 
all versions?  This is not clear in the What's New file.

M
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Re: The 2.5 debugger

[Alex Tweedly]

At 14:26 21/07/2004 -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I downloaded the 2.5 beta this morning and went immediately to the debugger.
Lots of improvements! Thanks!
Yes, some nice improvements - but not some of the ones I was hoping for.
So now that I know that, it's time to put them into Bugzilla as enhancement 
requests.

And as I started to do that, I decided one of them might be a bug rather 
than an enhancement request (and some of them might be my mis-use or lack 
of knowledge).

So I'll ask for help / comments from the list ... and then enter these into 
Bugzilla accordingly.

1. In Script Debug mode, click in left margin to set a breakpoint on a line.
Then add (or delete) a line above that in the script.
The breakpoint indicator stays still, while the code text moves - so the 
breakpoint is now on a different line from where I wanted it.
Bug or enhancement ?

2. Variable watcher.
a. display multi-line variables condensed onto single line
(option/pref for what char to use in place of cr ?)
b. option to "hide" variables - or  to only display selected variables.
both enhancements (unless they can be done now and I missed seeing how).
Disagree ?
One enhancement request or two separate enhancements?
3. Documentation for the Variable Watcher.
The only documentation I can find for this is in the FAQ under Writing 
Transcript / How do I monitor a variable's value while debugging.
Shouldn't there be a Topic devoted to debug mode,and the features and usage 
of the various features used in debug mode.

4. Variable watcher - stop on condition.
the tip mentioned above says "click to the left on the variable name in 
variable watcher. To stop when the variable equals an expression, enter the 
expression into the dialog box and click OK. To stop whenever the variable 
changes, click Cancel instead".

A. This doesn't seem to work for me - can't get it to stop whenever a value 
changes
B. click Cancel SHOULD mean "make no change" - not be the way to get some 
effect

More later,
Alex.

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Re: Unusual occurrence - An OS X prob not a Rev prob

[Marian Petrides]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 11:25 AM, Marian Petrides wrote:
Also, in the process of trying 2.5 out I had the following unusual 
(but reproducible) occurrence.   Run 2.5b1 in Mac OS X 10.3.4.  Create 
a new mainstack with one field and one button. Verify that the only 
stack present in Application Browser is the new stack (call it 
TestStack). Save Test Stack.  Then save TestStack as standalone. Quit 
Rev.

Run standalone:  works fine, one field one button AOK
Double-click on TestStack.Rev (non-standalone file).  IDE opens with 
TestStack in foreground and an entirely different stack (the main 
stack for the project I just completed) behind it.  What gives??? Why 
is this happening?  A bug or something I missed doing when I created 
the
Figured this out at last.  It isn't a Rev thing, it's an OS X thing.  
Somehow the default app for Rev files got set to be my splash screen 
standalone and not Rev 2.x.  Bizarre, since I KNOW I never set it up 
this way, but... this is a non-issue (phew!).

M
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Re: urgent QTversion question...

[Klaus Major]

Hi Alex,
...
So this is a bit like a paradoxon:
I can check, but then the result is useless, since i cannot change 
anything if it is
not what i need...

Know what i mean?
Therefore my question: Is there a registry entry that we can check 
instead?
Note - I am totally naive about Windows registry, and how you access 
it, but I see an entry for

  HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE / SOFTWARE / Apple Computer, Inc. / ActiveX / 
QTVersion
Thanks, will surely check this one next time i start my PC...
I do most of my work on my Mac :-)
that looks a possible candidate. I can't see anything else in the QT 
hierarchy that looks like a version number.
(And in fact the QT player on Windows is perhaps the only program I've 
seen that doesn't give version info
in its "Help / About ..." menu screen).

Does seem like there should be a more direct way ...
-- Alex.
Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Re: urgent QTversion question...

[Alex Tweedly]

At 16:33 22/07/2004 +0200, Klaus Major wrote:
Like QT 2.1.2, which is still present on many win98 machines, and you need 
at least
version 4.x to be able to play e.g MP3 files and at least v. 5 or above to 
play MPG videos
with QT...

But on windowze apps, i want to check the qtversion BEFORE i decide to use
or not use QT...
See one of my last mails concerning media files that are playable inside of
player objects without QT...
So i want to check if there is an "up to date" version of QT on the target 
PC before i decide
to "set the dontuseqt" to whatever...

But with the current behaviour this is simply not possible, since once QT 
is loaded, you
canot get rid of it as long as your rev-app is running...

So this is a bit like a paradoxon:
I can check, but then the result is useless, since i cannot change 
anything if it is
not what i need...

Know what i mean?
Therefore my question: Is there a registry entry that we can check instead?
Note - I am totally naive about Windows registry, and how you access it, 
but I see an entry for

  HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE / SOFTWARE / Apple Computer, Inc. / ActiveX / QTVersion
that looks a possible candidate. I can't see anything else in the QT 
hierarchy that looks like a version number.  (And in fact the QT player on 
Windows is perhaps the only program I've seen that doesn't give version 
info in its "Help / About ..." menu screen).

Does seem like there should be a more direct way ...
-- Alex.

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Rev Player

[Klaus Major]

Hi all,
after i once started the Rev player i find a 2.2 MB "executable unix 
file"
called "Revolution Launcher" in my REV folder...

Any hints?
Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
P.S.
Looks like the REV player will load "Rev online" when doubleclicked,
but only as long it is in the same folder as REV...
Put it somewhere else and nothing will happen on doubleclick...
OK, i might have exspected something like the SuperCard player where an 
open dialog
would pop uzp to let the user select a SuperCard stack...

But when dropping a stack on that icon, it work as exspected :-)
And i am sure, if REV is NOT on our HD, the player will start when we 
doubleclick a
rev stack in the finder... Not tested on windows yet...

This is COOOL, so we don't have to create something like that on our 
own ;-)
But there might be an issue with (not present) externals...

But is it just the first beta ;-)
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Player and an unusual occurrence (bug or buggy developer)?

[Marian Petrides]

I am obviously missing something.  What is the Player, how is it 
different from a self-contained standalone stack and how does one 
create a stack that the Player plays. Am I understanding correctly that 
the Player creates a single standalone that can be used on any 
supported platform?

If so, what has been done about the problems with text display being 
inconsistent across platforms.  Right now, I have two different set of 
stacks, which are identical except for font issues.  One folder 
contains the stacks for the Mac (and a Mac standalone splash screen), 
the other contains stacks for Windows (and a Windows standalone splash 
screen).  Will Player eliminate the need for these two separate 
folders???

Also, in the process of trying 2.5 out I had the following unusual (but 
reproducible) occurrence.   Run 2.5b1 in Mac OS X 10.3.4.  Create a new 
mainstack with one field and one button. Verify that the only stack 
present in Application Browser is the new stack (call it TestStack). 
Save Test Stack.  Then save TestStack as standalone. Quit Rev.

Run standalone:  works fine, one field one button AOK
Double-click on TestStack.Rev (non-standalone file).  IDE opens with 
TestStack in foreground and an entirely different stack (the main stack 
for the project I just completed) behind it.  What gives??? Why is this 
happening?  A bug or something I missed doing when I created the new 
stack???

Also one piece of feedback on the new interface, I wish RunRev could go 
back to giving a different default name for each button, field, etc 
that is created, eg, field 1, field 2.  That way there is never any 
possibility (if I am sloppy and forget to explicitly rename the button, 
field, etc) for confusion as to the target of a command.  Just a 
thought.

M

On Jul 22, 2004, at 10:50 AM, Kevin Miller wrote:
On 22/7/04 1:31 pm, "Malte Brill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
2.) Rev-online. I think this could become a cool place if it gets 
used. What
I really would love to see is how big in KB/MB the stacks are (I just 
looked
at it, so maybe this is somewhere I havent found yet) I created an 
account a
few minutes ago. If you download the Stack from my users section mind 
it is
2.xx MB.
I can see the point of that.  Rev Online will be used for serving 
videos to
people on broadband and stacks are likely to be smaller than that, but 
I'll
make a note.  I don't know if it will be in this release or the next 
one.

3.) Dreamcard. Will this have the same IDE or will it look 
differently? I
don´t understand the term " smoothed off interface" Does this 
describe what
the Interface is going to look in *all* versions?
Essentially yes, though some options aren't available in Dreamcard, 
those
being noted in the FAQ.

I also would like to say that I am happy about the Player approach.
I haven´t looked at it too much by now, so maybe the following is 
redundant,
as it might be already implemented:

I think it could be useful if the player would allow Autoplay for CD 
Roms.
This could be implemented by looking for a simple text file e.g. 
toc.txt
with only one line of text holding the relative path to the stack that
should be played. This would be a big plus (if it isn´t already 
possible).
I think this should work with the current implementation, let us know 
if you
have any trouble getting it to.

Also I haven´t found a way to browse the local directory (but I just 
looked
at it for a few minutes). Also I would like to know which components 
is in
the player:

imagelibrary/externals/cursors/...?
We'll be shipping the Player as a separate download to test by itself
shortly.  When we do that you can check what is included.
The new toolbar: It looks more modern. I liked the old one better, 
but I
think I will get used to it.
Yeah, its always tricky when we make a change to the appearance of 
anything.
Ultimately though the old toolbar was really dated and we had to 
update it.
I don't think we're going to be able to get something that suits 
everyone,
stability was a higher priority than providing extra icon sets, and 
the new
one does looks clean, modern and functional.

Thanks for the feedback.
Kind regards,
Kevin
Kevin Miller ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
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Re: Express to Dreamcard was RE: scrollbar problems

[Alex Tweedly]

At 15:17 22/07/2004 +0100, Heather Nagey wrote:
> Well, just 10 days ago I bought my first license - Express plus a one year
> update bundle.
> Now I find that there will be no updates on the product I bought.
>
> Tell me again  - why should I be happy about it ?
Alex, write me off list and we'll discuss what would be fair in your
situation. At the end of the day, we don't want anyone to walk away unhappy
with this.
Thank you Heather, I will do that - though if you make it all the through 
my last email, you'll see that I say it's not that big a deal for me. It's 
the annoyance of buying and seeing it disappear, not a few dollars here or 
there, that matters.

Dreamcard is good news for the community as a whole, we're very excited
about the possibilities it opens up.
I'm not sure I understand properly just exactly what the Player does allow. 
The Player in the 2.5B1 distribution only allows me to connect to Rev 
on-line; does that mean I can't send a stack directly to a Player-owner and 
have them use it ? Can they only get it via Rev online ?

I'd like to see an expanded description of what the player will be or will 
do 

[ I'd like to get excited about it, I'd like to see opportunities open up - 
but without a better idea of what the "Player experience" will be for the 
folks I write software for, I can't do that yet ]

>
> (And I won't even mention the fact that I bought it in the UK, at 40% more
> than the USD prices we generally talk about).
I don't really want to get a price discussion going here, but I think a
footnote wouldn't go amiss. Unfortunately UK customers do have to pay VAT,
government tax which we have no control over.
Indeed the tax must be paid. But you do have control over the price in each 
country, and can adjust accordingly (see the long answer part of my email 
that crossed in the ether, in particular the part about amortizing 
development costs across all sales revenue).

If you have a VAT registered
business you can claim it back. As for the rest of the price comparison, if
you look at the progression of the US/UK exchange rate over the last few
years you'll realise it became imperative for us to set the UK price at a
firm figure rather than continue to watch it slide into oblivion.
The US price (as converted into GBP) has been "sliding into oblivion", why 
is it imperative to make the UK price behave differently ?  You have needed 
to adjust your business model and/or prices to account for the decreasing 
income in real terms from the majority of international customers - why 
penalize the relatively small number of domestic ones.

-- Alex.

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Transcript version of this AppleScript

[RGould8]

I've got an Applescript below that converts a text string into a
format that IE's plist config file understands.   (I'm trying to
save a new URL into IE's default homepage prefs)

set s to "http://www.google.com/";
set s to (ASCII character (count s)) & s
do shell script "echo -n " & quoted form of s & " | openssl base64"

Can anyone tell me how this could be converted to work as a
Transcript solution?   The base64 encoding is easy - - - it's
the ASCII character count part that I'm not sure
how to convert into Transcript

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Re: urgent QTversion question...

[Malte Brill]

>ANY opinion is very welcome!
>C'mon, just one line ;-)

If I ever would get used to Godzilla I´d vote for it...

Best,

Malte


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Re: Rev 2.5 Beta [Performance/Rev-Online/Dreamcard/...]

[Mark Brownell]

on 7/22/04 5:31 AM, Malte Brill at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I think it could be useful if the player would allow Autoplay for CD Roms.
> This could be implemented by looking for a simple text file e.g. toc.txt
> with only one line of text holding the relative path to the stack that
> should be played. This would be a big plus (if it isn´t already possible).
> Also I haven´t found a way to browse the local directory (but I just looked
> at it for a few minutes). Also I would like to know which components is in
> the player:


I solved this issue for myself a long time ago by creating an auto-play
hyperlink that was empty in a page's MTML/HTML.

Whenever my MTML browser encounters a page with an auto-play link it does
what the link commands it to do.

Example:


On the next page the control attribute for stop after play is control="stop"

Mark


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Re: Express to Dreamcard was RE: scrollbar problems

[Klaus Major]

Hi Alex and all,
...
No, there are separate prices.
Yes, that's very true!
I just did a short check...
On the rev-us store the one year update for enterprise is 499 $...
On the page that i will get here in germany seems to be th UK store  
(why?)
and it costs 333 english pounds, which translates to (TA DAA) 615 US  
bucks...

PLUS VAT or whatever...
Well THAT does not seem right...
Check it yourself:
GB store:
http://secure.runrev.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc? 
Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=02&Category_Code=U

US store:
http://secure.runrev.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc? 
Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RROS&Category_Code=U

Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Re: urgent QTversion question...

[Roger . E . Eller]

Hi Klaus,

> Of course this is only important on windoze!
> On the mac QT is the only multimedia engine so far...

I'm not so sure about that. Unless you mean integrated into the OS. 
Anyways, check this out...

http://www.microsoft.com/windows/windowsmedia/software/Macintosh/osx/default.aspx

> I know there are many folks here on the list who are struggling
> with the presence/absence of QT on windowze ;-)
> 
> What do you think?
> 
> ANY opinion is very welcome!
> C'mon, just one line ;-)

I agree. If Quicktime is to be the "chosen" multimedia engine for runrev, 
it should work the same on Windows as it does for the Mac. I would love to 
be able to view a PDF file in a player object on Windows.

Kind regards,
Roger Eller  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--
Artificial Intelligence is no match for Natural Stupidity.

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Re: Thank you all !

[Troy Rollins]

On Jul 22, 2004, at 10:58 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I finished my Revolution application on time, and it works perfectly !
Congratulations!
:-)
--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net
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Re: Rev 2.5 Beta [Performance/Rev-Online/Dreamcard/...]

[Kevin Miller]

On 22/7/04 1:31 pm, "Malte Brill" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 2.) Rev-online. I think this could become a cool place if it gets used. What
> I really would love to see is how big in KB/MB the stacks are (I just looked
> at it, so maybe this is somewhere I havent found yet) I created an account a
> few minutes ago. If you download the Stack from my users section mind it is
> 2.xx MB.

I can see the point of that.  Rev Online will be used for serving videos to
people on broadband and stacks are likely to be smaller than that, but I'll
make a note.  I don't know if it will be in this release or the next one.

> 3.) Dreamcard. Will this have the same IDE or will it look differently? I
> don´t understand the term " smoothed off interface" Does this describe what
> the Interface is going to look in *all* versions?

Essentially yes, though some options aren't available in Dreamcard, those
being noted in the FAQ.

> I also would like to say that I am happy about the Player approach.
> I haven´t looked at it too much by now, so maybe the following is redundant,
> as it might be already implemented:
> 
> I think it could be useful if the player would allow Autoplay for CD Roms.
> This could be implemented by looking for a simple text file e.g. toc.txt
> with only one line of text holding the relative path to the stack that
> should be played. This would be a big plus (if it isn´t already possible).

I think this should work with the current implementation, let us know if you
have any trouble getting it to.

> Also I haven´t found a way to browse the local directory (but I just looked
> at it for a few minutes). Also I would like to know which components is in
> the player:
> 
> imagelibrary/externals/cursors/...?

We'll be shipping the Player as a separate download to test by itself
shortly.  When we do that you can check what is included.

> The new toolbar: It looks more modern. I liked the old one better, but I
> think I will get used to it.

Yeah, its always tricky when we make a change to the appearance of anything.
Ultimately though the old toolbar was really dated and we had to update it.
I don't think we're going to be able to get something that suits everyone,
stability was a higher priority than providing extra icon sets, and the new
one does looks clean, modern and functional.

Thanks for the feedback.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools

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Re: The 2.5 debugger

[Kevin Miller]

On 22/7/04 12:25 am, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Obviously the two commands that are the most important are Step Into and
> Abort.
> Space and Option Space are utterly unintuitive. Command Period is also
> unintuitive but at least it is traditional.

They are the most obvious keyboard shortcuts we could think of.  You
probably want to step-into lots of times in a script.  Pressing space is a
really simple and easy way to do this.  Try it for a while and see how you
find it - it might just take some getting used to?

> A GUI where you have to go to the documentation (or get emails from the CEO -
> by the way, Thank You, Kevin) for simple things like shortcuts is not good
> use of a GUI.

True, but then again this is a beta :)  And as it happens they are
documented, in the Shortcuts Reference in the Help menu.

> Command I, Command T, and Command A are easy to remember because they relate
> to the action described by the button.

They are all used for other things already, and not just other things but
things that are so well remembered it could be quite confusing to reuse
these.  (Command-w only works to run because closing the window, even with
the mouse, executes run.)

Thanks for the feedback.

Kind regards,

Kevin

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Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools

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Re: The 2.5 debugger

[Kevin Miller]

On 21/7/04 10:33 pm, "Troy Rollins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> And why not Command-r when used in debug mode (if possible without
>> closing the window)?
>> Surely one does not want to group objects during debugging.
> 
> Oh man, I hate doubling-up command key combos like that. What about
> "enter" like is normally used for a compile. Would seem a natural, no?

OK, we'll add Enter.

Kevin Miller ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools

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Re: Rev 2.5b Interface

[Kevin Miller]

On 22/7/04 4:06 am, "Derek Bump" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 1. How many windows can pop up at the same time?  The first time I launched it
> both the Application Browser and Revolution Online were open (along with Tools
> and the Menu Bar).  This definately doesn't need to happen.  Show the Menubar
> and the tools palette.  Don't confuse the people who are new to Revolution.
> Just because it's an update doesn't mean it's not someone's first time using
> it.  Keep it simple.

Remember that in the release version, the Learning Center will be
functional.  That's one of the key uses of Rev Online for new users, it
brings access to tutorials and samples in just one click.

> The Tools Palette
> 1. Now it's now bigger and take up even more screen space.

The icons are clearer, the previous one was too small, people had trouble
finding things.

> 2. Supports Drag & Drop but doesn't conform to the Grid.  Requiring you to
> re-drag it to align to the grid.

That should be possible to fix.

> 3. Does this make it easier for people to post destructive stacks?  In my
> experience, if I were to download a program from within Revolution, I would
> trust that it won't do anything bad to my computer.  I'm worried that
> Revolution Online allows people to submit Trojan Horses with the appearance of
> a trusted stack.  Is there a filter for a posted stack?

There certainly is a potential exposure here, in that anyone can post stacks
to the User Spaces area.  That said, most people here know each other and an
individual has to sign up to Rev Online to post, making it hard to be
anonymous, so I think the risk is fairly minimal.  Anyone posting stacks
that do damage will be removed from Rev Online.  That said, if you aren't
sure about who is providing something then don't download it, or use the
Player, which is a more secure environment.

Thanks for the feedback.

Kind regards,

Kevin

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Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools

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Re: Rev 2.5b Interface

[Kevin Miller]

On 22/7/04 4:08 am, "Hershel Fisch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I had the same problem the second and third time with an additional
> error "check the internet connection"

We're been made aware of some issues with Rev Online in this beta on
Windows.  They will be addressed shortly.  Thanks for the feedback.

Kevin Miller ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools

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Re: Version 2.5B1 and dbsqlite

[Kevin Miller]

On 21/7/04 4:59 pm, "Bob Hartley" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Just downloaded and installed the new 2.5B1.  Looks really great!
> 
> I think so to.
> 
> Just Phoned heather with a Q? as well and I think I'll be buying a studio
> license (need standalones). I cant get the browser thing to work (I'm sure
> they are just uploading the files), BUT I have to say that the
> documentation window/search/display is far better.

And one thing I forgot in my original announcement: 2.5 will of course be
included as a free upgrade on any purchase made now or during the beta
period.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools

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Re: urgent QTversion question...

[Klaus Major]

Hi all,
...
Know what i mean?
Therefore my question: Is there a registry entry that we can check 
instead?
Or even better:
Why does the engine have to load QT, if we simply want to know
what version is installed?
I think this is simply overkill ;-)
It is just as if your repair shop starts to take your car/engine apart 
and you
only wanted to know how much a new windshieldd wiper migh cost :-D

Maybe a feature request on ugly Godzila?
I know there are many folks here on the list who are struggling
with the presence/absence of QT on windowze ;-)
What do you think?
ANY opinion is very welcome!
C'mon, just one line ;-)
Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Re: Express to Dreamcard was RE: scrollbar problems

[Alex Tweedly]

At 06:48 22/07/2004 -0700, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Alex Tweedly wrote:
At 06:04 22/07/2004 -0700, Richard Gaskin wrote:
As for the licensing stuff, I haven't yet read a post from Kevin 
describing what will happen with license holders for the 
about-to-be-end-of-lifed Express (did I miss it?).
Yes, it's in the FAQ mentioned in Kevin's announcement email
   An FAQ on the changes to Express can be found here:
   http://www.runrev.com/express/expresstodreamcard.shtml
...
Well, just 10 days ago I bought my first license - Express plus a one 
year update bundle.
Now I find that there will be no updates on the product I bought.
Tell me again  - why should I be happy about it ?
If I read the URL you posted correctly, it seems you're moving up to 
Studio for the price of Express.  Doesn't sound all that bad.
Not quite. The way I read it, I'll have the opportunity to movie up to 
Studio in 11-1/2 months from now; in the meantime, I'll have only Dreamcard.
Or, alternatively, I take the Studio update now (and just lose the 11-1/2 
months of updates I already purchased).  (If I read the FAQ correctly).

And, of course, I didn't really want, far less need, Studio.  I chose 
Express because it gave me what I wanted at a price I can afford.

Sure beats having a product end-of-lifed with no upgrade option at all, 
like Apple did to its HyperCard customers and Adobe did to its LiveMotion 
customers.  Both companies had spent years selling the products at their 
sites while no product development was happening, concealing their 
internal plans to nix them from the buying public -- how can the consumer 
exercise caveat emptor without fair disclosure from the vendor?  Between 
the two, only Adobe eventually came clean and announced end-of-life for 
LiveMotion.  To date, the last official word on HyperCard from any Apple 
employee was Steve Jobs' comment at CAUSE '98 in which he said that 
"rumors that we've killed HyperCard are bullsh*t".  I guess one needs tall 
boots in Cupertino .
Sure - that's one reason that I'm not an Apple customer.
At least with Rev you can safely walk barefoot on clean grass; Kevin & 
Co's being up-front about end-of-lifing Express puts them in a very rare 
category among software vendors.  Maintaining the Express price for Studio 
seems a pretty good move for both them and Express license holders.
I don't see how they're being entirely "up-front" about it. I purchased a 
year's updates to Express on the expectation that there were going to be 
some. There aren't. Now I know that the year's update doesn't actually 
specify whether there will be any updates or not - but my expectation was 
that there would be.

Kevin and Co are being much, much better about it than many other companies 
have been in the past - but that still doesn't make it "OK" to sell 
something and then not deliver it. They're NOT maintaining the Express 
price for me - they're giving  me a one-off discount to maintain it for 12 
months - thereafter I would pay the full Studio rates.

Let me be clear - this is not a "terrible" thing that they're doing - in 
fact, compared to most companies, it's a pretty generous offer. But 
nevertheless, none of the options available to me now look as good as the 
one I thought I had yesterday morning, or the one I thought I was 
purchasing last week. So I'm disappointed, but it ain't that big a deal for me.

(And I won't even mention the fact that I bought it in the UK, at 40% 
more than the USD prices we generally talk about).
Why does Rev cost more in the UK?  I had thought that when making credit 
card purchases the price shown in USD is adjusted to current local 
exchange rates by the card broker, no?
No, there are separate prices.
There's a short explanation, a medium explanation and a long explanation.
Short answer:  "Alex, you're exaggerating, it's only 25% more"
Because  they need to charge VAT to EU residents and companies, the actual 
price difference is 25% not 40%.

Medium answer: "Most companies will recover the VAT anyway"
Most of RunRev's sales are (I imagine) to other companies, and EU companies 
are basically unaffected by the VAT cost. The VAT component shows up in 
those companies' VAT cost account, so they effectively don't care too much. 
Only small businesses (below the VAT registration threshold)  and consumers 
are really affected - and they are a very small part of Runrev's customer 
base. (Though maybe not such a small part of the target customer base, 
especially for Dreamcard)

Long answer: "Taxes are complicated enough, it's nearly impossible to be 
'fair' "
Any company operating internationally has to deal with countries using a 
variety of tax strategies, direct vs indirect, included in prices vs added 
to prices, sales tax vs VAT, etc., as well as with the issues of tax 
collection. The cost of Runrev's development work (I presume largely 
UK-based) includes a significant UK-tax portion - and that should (IMO) be 
amortized against all sales revenue; that would give 

Re: urgent QTversion question...

[Klaus Major]

Hi James,
Klaus -
Maybe I'm missing something, but have you tried "put the QTVersion" 
into
some variable and go from there?  I just did "put the QTVersion" in the
message box and it returns "6.5.1".  I'm MacOSX 10.3.4.
sorry, looks like i was not clear enough..
Of course this is only important on windoze!
On the mac QT is the only multimedia engine so far...
But some pcs do NOT have QT installed for whatever reason or a very old 
version...

Like QT 2.1.2, which is still present on many win98 machines, and you 
need at least
version 4.x to be able to play e.g MP3 files and at least v. 5 or above 
to play MPG videos
with QT...

But on windowze apps, i want to check the qtversion BEFORE i decide to 
use
or not use QT...

See one of my last mails concerning media files that are playable 
inside of
player objects without QT...

So i want to check if there is an "up to date" version of QT on the 
target PC before i decide
to "set the dontuseqt" to whatever...

But with the current behaviour this is simply not possible, since once 
QT is loaded, you
canot get rid of it as long as your rev-app is running...

So this is a bit like a paradoxon:
I can check, but then the result is useless, since i cannot change 
anything if it is
not what i need...

Know what i mean?
Therefore my question: Is there a registry entry that we can check 
instead?

Cheers...James
Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Re: urgent QTversion question...

[James . Cass]

I realize your question is about QuickTime for Windows, but in MacOSX 
10.3.4, you can find the QuickTime version in this file: 
/Applications/QuickTime\ Player.app/Contents/version.plist

Hope this helps...James





Klaus Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
07/22/04 08:32 AM
Please respond to How to use Revolution
 
To: How to use Revolution <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:urgent QTversion question...


Hi folks,

this is now the fourth time that i post this one... :-(
No answers/comments/opinions yet...

Please take a moment and read this one, which is quite important, i
think...

An opinion from edinborough would also be heavily appreciated ;-)


The docs say, that "get qtversion()" will already LOAD all the
necessary QT components
and you cannot "set the dontuseqt to true" in this session anymore!!!

In my not humble at all opinion this is far too much, since i only want
to know what version is present...

But how can you decide to use or not use QT, if you cannot check for an
uptodate version???
You HAVE to check FIRST before deciding! At least i do... ;-)

There are lots of old QT 2.1.2 win-versions around, at least on win 98,
i am sure! ;-)

Am i wrong or is this the old "chicken and the egg" problem?

Any answer/opinions/comments are very welcome...

Anyone knows what registry-entry to check instead?


Regards

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de

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Re: Express to Dreamcard was RE: scrollbar problems

[Heather Nagey]

> Well, just 10 days ago I bought my first license - Express plus a one year
> update bundle.
> Now I find that there will be no updates on the product I bought.
> 
> Tell me again  - why should I be happy about it ?

Alex, write me off list and we'll discuss what would be fair in your
situation. At the end of the day, we don't want anyone to walk away unhappy
with this. 

Dreamcard is good news for the community as a whole, we're very excited
about the possibilities it opens up.
> 
> (And I won't even mention the fact that I bought it in the UK, at 40% more
> than the USD prices we generally talk about).

I don't really want to get a price discussion going here, but I think a
footnote wouldn't go amiss. Unfortunately UK customers do have to pay VAT,
government tax which we have no control over. If you have a VAT registered
business you can claim it back. As for the rest of the price comparison, if
you look at the progression of the US/UK exchange rate over the last few
years you'll realise it became imperative for us to set the UK price at a
firm figure rather than continue to watch it slide into oblivion.

Regards,

Heather
-- 

** For a faster response to all licensing, support, and technical issues,
please now send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] **

Heather Nagey ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
Tel +44 (0) 870 747 1165 Fax +44 (0) 845 4588487
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Re: urgent QTversion question...

[James . Cass]

Klaus -

Maybe I'm missing something, but have you tried "put the QTVersion" into 
some variable and go from there?  I just did "put the QTVersion" in the 
message box and it returns "6.5.1".  I'm MacOSX 10.3.4.

Cheers...James






Klaus Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent by: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
07/22/04 08:32 AM
Please respond to How to use Revolution
 
To: How to use Revolution <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
cc: 
Subject:urgent QTversion question...


Hi folks,

this is now the fourth time that i post this one... :-(
No answers/comments/opinions yet...

Please take a moment and read this one, which is quite important, i
think...

An opinion from edinborough would also be heavily appreciated ;-)


The docs say, that "get qtversion()" will already LOAD all the
necessary QT components
and you cannot "set the dontuseqt to true" in this session anymore!!!

In my not humble at all opinion this is far too much, since i only want
to know what version is present...

But how can you decide to use or not use QT, if you cannot check for an
uptodate version???
You HAVE to check FIRST before deciding! At least i do... ;-)

There are lots of old QT 2.1.2 win-versions around, at least on win 98,
i am sure! ;-)

Am i wrong or is this the old "chicken and the egg" problem?

Any answer/opinions/comments are very welcome...

Anyone knows what registry-entry to check instead?


Regards

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de

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Re: Express to Dreamcard was RE: scrollbar problems

[Bob Hartley]

At 14:48 22/07/2004, you wrote:
Hi All

Why does Rev cost more in the UK?  I had thought that when making credit 
card purchases the price shown in USD is adjusted to current local 
exchange rates by the card broker, no?

On the other hand, the upgrade to studio is in dollars $99 so it is a good 
time to do it for me since this is 53.60 in pounds. So I will upgrade to 
studio. :-)

Cheers
Bob
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Re: Express to Dreamcard was RE: scrollbar problems

[Bob Hartley]

At 14:48 22/07/2004, you wrote:
Why does Rev cost more in the UK?  I had thought that when making credit 
card purchases the price shown in USD is adjusted to current local 
exchange rates by the card broker, no?
Nope it is 149 dollars worldwide and 99 pounds in the UK (then 17.5% tax 
the tax is fair enough)

Choosing another currency converter at todays rate 
(http://www.oanda.com/convert/classic) gives $149 = £80.99 but the runrev 
UK price is £99. I assumed that Alex was wrong but this is a shock since I 
paid my subscription at the pound rate?

When I bought my express I did buy in dollars but my subscription is in 
pounds. £66 = $124.45 (this is without tax, since I dont mind paying tax)

cheers
Bob 

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Re: Express to Dreamcard was RE: scrollbar problems

[Bob Hartley]

At 14:36 22/07/2004, you wrote:

(And I won't even mention the fact that I bought it in the UK, at 40% more 
than the USD prices we generally talk about).

I thought it was the same price +VAT. Are they more expensive?
Checks the USA URL
http://secure.runrev.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Store_Code=RROS&Category_Code=sbe
149 dollars
goes to currency converter
http://www.xe.com/ucc/
puts in 149 and gets a cost of £80.75 but tye UK price is £99? 26% more. 
then add on VAT

So why is it more expensive in the UK? I only live 35 miles from runrev HQ 
and anyway it is a download so it shouldn'y matter where I am.

It should be 80.75 + VAT surely?
I dont mind paying the VAT, but a different price for a download. Granted 
currency rates fluctuate, however, I think this should either be in dollars 
+ 17.5% VAT or have the store updated (even every 3 months) to account for 
the exchange at that time. I sell my palmtop apps in dollars even though I 
am in Scotland as well.

Cheers
Bob

-- Alex.

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Re: Express to Dreamcard was RE: scrollbar problems

[Richard Gaskin]

Alex Tweedly wrote:
At 06:04 22/07/2004 -0700, Richard Gaskin wrote:
As for the licensing stuff, I haven't yet read a post from Kevin 
describing what will happen with license holders for the 
about-to-be-end-of-lifed Express (did I miss it?).
Yes, it's in the FAQ mentioned in Kevin's announcement email
   An FAQ on the changes to Express can be found here:
   http://www.runrev.com/express/expresstodreamcard.shtml
...
Well, just 10 days ago I bought my first license - Express plus a one 
year update bundle.
Now I find that there will be no updates on the product I bought.

Tell me again  - why should I be happy about it ?
If I read the URL you posted correctly, it seems you're moving up to 
Studio for the price of Express.  Doesn't sound all that bad.

Sure beats having a product end-of-lifed with no upgrade option at all, 
like Apple did to its HyperCard customers and Adobe did to its 
LiveMotion customers.  Both companies had spent years selling the 
products at their sites while no product development was happening, 
concealing their internal plans to nix them from the buying public -- 
how can the consumer exercise caveat emptor without fair disclosure from 
the vendor?  Between the two, only Adobe eventually came clean and 
announced end-of-life for LiveMotion.  To date, the last official word 
on HyperCard from any Apple employee was Steve Jobs' comment at CAUSE 
'98 in which he said that "rumors that we've killed HyperCard are 
bullsh*t".  I guess one needs tall boots in Cupertino .

At least with Rev you can safely walk barefoot on clean grass; Kevin & 
Co's being up-front about end-of-lifing Express puts them in a very rare 
category among software vendors.  Maintaining the Express price for 
Studio seems a pretty good move for both them and Express license holders.

(And I won't even mention the fact that I bought it in the UK, at 40% 
more than the USD prices we generally talk about).
Why does Rev cost more in the UK?  I had thought that when making credit 
card purchases the price shown in USD is adjusted to current local 
exchange rates by the card broker, no?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Express to Dreamcard was RE: scrollbar problems

[Alex Tweedly]

At 06:04 22/07/2004 -0700, Richard Gaskin wrote:

As for the licensing stuff, I haven't yet read a post from Kevin 
describing what will happen with license holders for the 
about-to-be-end-of-lifed Express (did I miss it?).
Yes, it's in the FAQ mentioned in Kevin's announcement email
   An FAQ on the changes to Express can be found here:
   http://www.runrev.com/express/expresstodreamcard.shtml
Because there is nothing in the new product lineup that matches the old 
Express product, the question is whether those licenses are downgraded to 
the new DreamCard or upgraded to Studio.  Of course a free upgrade to 
Studio would be heroic of them, but it might still be good if there were 
an attractively-priced upgrade option to carry Express users forward.
There's a very attractively priced upgrade at "your next update cycle"
For your next update pack only, you can cross grade to Studio for $99, the 
cost of an old style Express update pack.
I think that's pretty good (as Bob called it "a very generous $99")
But thereafter the annual cost has gone up from $99 to $199 - i.e. more per 
year than the initial purchase of Express cost you.

For myself, I'm glad there's now a clearer differentiation between the 
products.  I could never quite remember all of the distinctions among 
them, and making DreamCard more obviously a hobbyist product helps clarify 
the product line as a whole.

When comparing prices with other products remember to account for total 
costs.  I'm not familiar enough with either set of packages to make a 
comparison (I bought a MetaCard license years ago which was only available 
for $995 and never regetted it), but the issue has come up on other lists 
and last time I read such a thread Rev's prices were ultimately on par.
Well, just 10 days ago I bought my first license - Express plus a one year 
update bundle.
Now I find that there will be no updates on the product I bought.

Tell me again  - why should I be happy about it ?
(And I won't even mention the fact that I bought it in the UK, at 40% more 
than the USD prices we generally talk about).

-- Alex.

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Re: Express to Dreamcard was RE: scrollbar problems

[Richard Gaskin]

Bob Hartley wrote:
So why wait with runrev. Well because it is nice to use for a beginner 
like me. I will probably get a studio license only on the hope that 
scrollbars are implemented natively in windows and not via a group 
situation. It is not useful for me otherwise.
In all fairness, it depends on what you need.  Yes, for interactively 
creating objects within a group we'll want to see Bugzilla #623 
addressed.  But for anything using the default browse tool I find groups 
to be infinitely more flexible than limiting me to always use the entire 
window for a scrolling region.

And last but not least. I will upgrade because of the list. I will 
however, be trying realbasic in the next week to assess it. You never 
know, I may get used to it.
It's been a while since I bothered with BASIC, but last time I looked 
into it there was no way to create new objects on the fly at runtime. 
This would not fully preclude the possibility of making a drawing app, 
but would require a lot more work as you'd be writing everything down to 
the objects' selection handles yourself (there is not pointer tool).

As for the licensing stuff, I haven't yet read a post from Kevin 
describing what will happen with license holders for the 
about-to-be-end-of-lifed Express (did I miss it?).

Because there is nothing in the new product lineup that matches the old 
Express product, the question is whether those licenses are downgraded 
to the new DreamCard or upgraded to Studio.  Of course a free upgrade to 
Studio would be heroic of them, but it might still be good if there were 
an attractively-priced upgrade option to carry Express users forward.

For myself, I'm glad there's now a clearer differentiation between the 
products.  I could never quite remember all of the distinctions among 
them, and making DreamCard more obviously a hobbyist product helps 
clarify the product line as a whole.

When comparing prices with other products remember to account for total 
costs.  I'm not familiar enough with either set of packages to make a 
comparison (I bought a MetaCard license years ago which was only 
available for $995 and never regetted it), but the issue has come up on 
other lists and last time I read such a thread Rev's prices were 
ultimately on par.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Thank you all !

[maxence . bernard]

I wanted to thank you all, members of the Revolution mailing list, for
your help.

I thank in particular :

Dar Scott, Jan Schenkel, Andre Garzia, Troy Rollins, [EMAIL PROTECTED],
Klaus Major, Mark Wieder,and Sarah Reichelt.

I finished my Revolution application on time, and it works perfectly !

See you soon... maybe

Maxence BERNARD
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Re: scrollbar problems: Scrolling a blank stack

[Richard Gaskin]

Bob Hartley wrote:
At 08:18 22/07/2004, you wrote:
Suppose you (as developer) wanted to add two objects (say, 2 buttons), 
one
in the upper-left and one in the lower-right of your window, and 
assume that
you can't display the full 540x720 window on your monitor and that the 
group
is scrolled already to the upper-left.

To do this in Rev, you do this:
1) Select the group and go into edit mode.
2) Create a button in the upper-left corner
3) Exit edit mode.
4) Scroll the group down to the lower-right corner
5) Go back into edit mode.
6) Create a button in the lower-right corner
7) Exit edit mode.
Since v2.1 it's much simpler:  you can set the boundingRect of a group 
to define the scrollable area, without having to create objects to 
define the bounds.

To do this in SuperCard you do this:
1) Create a button in the upper-left corner.
2) Scroll the window to the lower-right corner.
3) Create a button in the lower-right corner.
This leaves out the step where you need to define the scrolling area by 
setting the window's backSize, roughly the same as setting the 
boundingRect in Rev.

You see how easy it can be? Rev is 100x more powerful than SuperCard, but
this is one of those instances where I wish that Rev would adopt the
SuperCard approach to scrollable windows. It also removes all the 
funkiness
of having a *user* create an object in different parts of a scrolling 
area.

This is the type of thing that I NEED to do.
You may want to consider voting for Bugzilla items #623 and #624, which 
address issues related to drawing environments:



Once those are addressed Rev would not only match but exceed SC's 
capabilities, at least in terms of the types of apps that could be 
delivered with it.  While groups in Rev do take slightly more work to 
set up, having the flexibility to make multi-pane windows is, for me, 
well worth it, and opens the door to many design options not possible in 
SC, since SC allows only one scrolling region which can only occupy the 
entire window.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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