Re: # POSSIBLY SPAM #::RE: var chk'r ?? Hold the phone

[Stephen Barncard]

AHA! This solves something that's been driving me crazy for weeks.
I would do a quick script for something and find that I'd always get 
errors if I didn't declare all variables, including locals!!! The 
docs say you don't *have* to declare locals

That 'variable checking' thing  was enabled by default
Thanks, Mr. X
sqb
Sorry for the inprecise terms...
If you go to the script editor, pull the script menu, you will find
"Variable Checking" which enforces a local "explicitvariables"
for that script. IOWs, it checks your variables and messages or
references.
This forces you to declare all variables but the big advantage is that
it will catch any typos in variables which are too easy to make...
Note that there is a similar feature in the preferences stack but for
default
behavior across all your scripts.
cheers
Xavier
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Re: # POSSIBLY SPAM #::RE: var chk'r ?? Hold the phone

[xbury . cs]

Sorry for the inprecise terms...

If you go to the script editor, pull the script menu, you will find 
"Variable Checking" which enforces a local "explicitvariables"
for that script. IOWs, it checks your variables and messages or
references. 

This forces you to declare all variables but the big advantage is that
it will catch any typos in variables which are too easy to make...

Note that there is a similar feature in the preferences stack but for 
default
behavior across all your scripts.

cheers
Xavier

On 23.03.2005 08:32:45 use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>Hi, X
>Do you mean the Variable *Watcher* that's part of the debug system?
>I can't find anything called Variable *Checker* anywhere in the IDE.
>sqb
>
>>not at all. Although I've written a couple tools to help that.
>>
>>I was refering to the built-in explicit var[iable] checker... ;)
>>
>>It's a great feature to help make more solid scripts...
>>
>>cheers
>>Xavier
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RE: var chk'r ?? Hold the phone

[Stephen Barncard]

Hi, X
Do you mean the Variable *Watcher* that's part of the debug system?
I can't find anything called Variable *Checker* anywhere in the IDE.
sqb
not at all. Although I've written a couple tools to help that.
I was refering to the built-in explicit var[iable] checker... ;)
It's a great feature to help make more solid scripts...
cheers
Xavier
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Re: OT? Apache SSL Stack?

[Rick Harrison]

On Mar 22, 2005, at 10:16 PM, Brian Yennie wrote:
It's worth noting that these instructions are for Mac OS X _Server_
http://developer.apple.com/server/security_ssl.html
While these are for ordinary MacOS X (consumer/client/whatever)
http://developer.apple.com/internet/serverside/modssl.html
Brian,
Ok, that makes sense.
mod_ssl is simply the Apache module (i.e. "plugin"). Apache SSL is a 
separately maintained product, and will require a lot more work if you 
aren't comfortable on the command-line. If you already have Apple's 
Apache installed, you'll want to enable mod_ssl, _not_ try to replace 
Apache with Apache SSL. Personally, I would use mod_ssl regardless as 
it'll always work with a vanilla Apache installation.
That's good to know too.
See this quote
Apache-SSL is not mod_ssl
There appears to be some confusion regarding Apache-SSL and mod_ssl. 
To set the record straight: mod_ssl is not a replacement for 
Apache-SSL - it is an alternative, in the same way that Apache is an 
alternative to Netscape/Microsoft servers, or Linux is an alternative 
to FreeBSD. It is a matter of personal choice as to which you run. 
mod_ssl is what is known as a 'split' - i.e. it was originally 
derived from Apache-SSL, but has been extensively redeveloped so the 
code now bears little relation to the original.

Apache-SSL continues to be developed and maintained, our main focus 
being on reliability, security and performance, rather than features 
and bells and whistles. I hope this makes things clear. (Adam 
Laurie).
This is the exact quote I was looking at before when I was referring to 
confusion about mod_ssl vs. Apache SSL.
I saw it sometime about a month and a half ago but didn't find it today 
when I was looking for it.

Hope that helps- I know it doesn't solve your problem of creating a 
stack, but you may have more success with the mod_ssl link that was 
posted than what you were using, especially if you're not on MacOS X 
Server. If it goes smoothly, you could probably hatch the shell 
commands together into a Rev stack without too much trouble...

- Brian
That helps a bunch Brian, because it tells me for sure which direction 
I need to proceed.  Mod_ssl it is!!!

Thanks!
Rick
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how do you pulldown a menu?

[MisterX]

RunRev is great and we have virtually control of everything. But one...

How do you pull down a menu using a script? 

I tried click at the loc of mymenu but it didn't work! 

The click actually when to the control below! 

Never a dull moment!

thanks for any clues (other than faking a menu)

cheers
Xavier

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the case of the misterious resizestack error

[MisterX]

Many times I've written a resizestack handler only to find that when I cause
a script stack resize, I need to send the stack a resizestack message. Many
times this fails for one reason or another.

Normally handled, the stack resizes itself correctly. Even without sending a
"resizestack" message. Totally cool!

But sometimes, I just do a stack mode switch (without affecting the
stackresizeable) and then the resizestack stops working! But the error comes
after the resizestack handler was executed!

After some testing here's what I found out:

I change stack mode to palette. 'Send "resizestack" to this stack', it
executes and then, I get an error

executing at 6:56:30 AM
Type Handler: can't find handler
Object Paletize  (this is the button I clicked)
Line resizestack (very helpful description if i have more than one ;)
Hint resizestack (wrong because the script runs fine!!!)

But there is no error! The resizestack handler is in the stack script and
there is no visible error there. If I just call "resizestack", same thing,
same error!

The strange thing which I hope anyone can explain is that when I
encapsulated my resizestack handler into a doresizestack handler and called
that in my button, it worked and no more errors. 

Again, none of the scripts have any error and work fine under other
conditions...

Any similar experiences? I've seen this happen since MetaCard when I was
working on switcheable palettes... 

Thanks in advance
Xavier
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Re: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Andre Garzia]

On Mar 23, 2005, at 2:48 AM, MisterX wrote:
I wrote my own translator which handles C, java, JS, basic,
flash, fortran to Transcript. Called the Transcriptolator.
man and I am struggling hard as hell to bring some LISP/Scheme things 
like continuations and list primitives to RunRev... :-D

andre
--
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Soap Dog Studios - BRAZIL
http://studio.soapdog.org
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Re: Rev and Externals (Was Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software)

[Andre Garzia]

On Mar 22, 2005, at 10:34 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
As long as we have the external interface we have now, I'd rather 
'start using' a library that uses an external.  The library can do 
things that don't need to be done in an external and can act as the 
sugar-coating glue to the external.

Dar
I usually go even further and create proxy functions that wrap around 
third party transcript libs. I always did that, but it was since my 
last talk with Trevor that I thought that this might be a good tip for 
the rest of the community.

Wherever I start using a lib made by a third party, I create a wrapper 
transcript lib arround it, in the case of Trevor libDatabase, I created 
a proxyLibDatabase that wrapped around Trevor libs. Why do this? Well, 
if Trevor changes anything in his API, my app will not break, I just 
need to change the proxy lib to match the current API. This was 
speacially usefull now for Trevor is indeed changing the API in a very 
sane way, but I have a software with hundreds (thousands?) lines 
rellying in the old API, with this proxy setup, I can update the lib 
and yet all my code will continue working.

This "syntatic sugar" things are a real mental health saver. I have 
here proxy libs for Shao Sean email stuff, for Trevor Database Stuff 
and lot's of others. I even went further and build proxy libs for my 
libs... I know it sounds paranoic but, hell, I am paranoid sometimes. 
When I first tweeked libCGI to add stuff from revHTTPd, I created a 
proxy lib glueing them, when I rewrote revHTTPd, I changed all the API, 
it was a complete rewrite. My tweeked libCGI continue to working, I 
just patched the glue lib and it's running better now and more secure 
and faster and it's smaller :D

Andre
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Re: OSX Screensaver in Revolution

[Andre Garzia]

Howard,
please man, tell me how could you tap into the screensaver 
framework :D I know how to build full  screen apps, thats easy, I 
want to know is how I tell MacOS X 10.3.4 to load my app when it needs 
to load a screen saver... I thought that with externals or maybe a 
clever plist hacking that might be possible

cheers
andre
On Mar 23, 2005, at 2:08 AM, Howard Bornstein wrote:
There's been some discussion about whether it's possible to write a
screensaver for OSX in Revolution. The difficulty has been to hook
into the OSX screensaver framework. However, I thought it shouldn't be
that hard to write it as a standalone application. So with that in
mind, I've written OSX Screensaver entirely in Transcript (with a
couple of lines of Applescript thrown in) and posted it to my
RevOnline user area (designeq).
This screensaver plays a Quicktime-compatible movie when the
screensaver evokes, after the preset idle-time. Any movement of the
mouse or keyboard entry returns you to your regularly-scheduled
program.
It's got a few other goodies, like hot-corners, the ability to play
the movie at original size or full-screen and volume adjustment.
Please feel free to take a look and try it out. I'm particularly
looking for bug reports.
I was amazed and impressed with Revolution's ability to build a tool 
like this.

--
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Howard Bornstein
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RE: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[MisterX]

> But a colleague who is a VB guru and HyperCard-knowledgeable 
> and I spent about a month last year looking at what it would 
> take to write a translator or even good conversion 
> documentation to enable VBers to switch to Rev. It is, as we 
> say in the software biz, a non-trivial task. The programming 
> paradigms are just so completely different that it did not 
> appear to us that we could achieve anything resembling even 
> 50% automation of the process. [snip]

I wrote my own translator which handles C, java, JS, basic, 
flash, fortran to Transcript. Called the Transcriptolator.

It's true you cannot automate many translations but the code 
translation and writing the translator has led me to an OOP 
process that does work.  The hardest part was with Flash and 
finding the right techniques to do the same kind of object-
orientation or messaging.

In the end I realized we may not have some of their "objects" 
(like frames in flash) but we do have more parrallels and 
facilities to do the same or other ways with RunRev.

Good knowledge of RunRev is primordial for things to work 
correctly and things like graphics are not easy to translate
but it's not impossible or too hard either.

Once you have grasped a technique any subsequent translation
is much easier.

Regards,
Xavier
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OSX Screensaver in Revolution

[Howard Bornstein]

There's been some discussion about whether it's possible to write a
screensaver for OSX in Revolution. The difficulty has been to hook
into the OSX screensaver framework. However, I thought it shouldn't be
that hard to write it as a standalone application. So with that in
mind, I've written OSX Screensaver entirely in Transcript (with a
couple of lines of Applescript thrown in) and posted it to my
RevOnline user area (designeq).

This screensaver plays a Quicktime-compatible movie when the
screensaver evokes, after the preset idle-time. Any movement of the
mouse or keyboard entry returns you to your regularly-scheduled
program.

It's got a few other goodies, like hot-corners, the ability to play
the movie at original size or full-screen and volume adjustment.

Please feel free to take a look and try it out. I'm particularly
looking for bug reports.

I was amazed and impressed with Revolution's ability to build a tool like this.

-- 
Regards,

Howard Bornstein
---
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Re: Mac / ISO XML - dumb question

[Terry Vogelaar]

Op 19-mrt-05 om 16:25 heeft jbv het volgende geschreven:
Hi all,
I'm working on a website project using Rev cgi in which
data will be sold online and available as xml files to be
downloaded by customers.
It seems that xml files suffer the same problem as plain
text files : according to the client platform to which they'll
be downloaded, end users need to have the choice between
a Mac or ISO version... Or is there a way to make xml files
all-platforms compatible ?
You are talking about upper ASCII chars, because with 'normal' chars 
you wouldn't notice the difference between Mac or ISO.

Many of these upper ASCII chars can be typed as ë or { (the 
latter form is preferred). XML in RunRev does that automatically, or it 
chokes on these upper ASCII chars.

Upper ASCII chars in XML in RunRev is not completely bug-free. It 
handles 'ë' nicely, but can't handle 'ä' for example.

Terry
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Re: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Jesse Sng]

Back in the 80's and 90's, when I was a strong advocate of OOP in 
general and Smalltalk in particular, I continually ran into the 
obstacle I came to think of as the IASFBSIDHTTT syndrome: I Am So 
Far Behind Schedule I Don't Have Time To Think. Whether dealing with 
in-house or out-house (never did like that "in-house" thing!) 
developers, the problem was the same: even if you could prove 
absolutely that this new language was more powerful and effective 
than my current tool set, I don't have time to evaluate it, learn 
it, and rebuild all my libraries and tools in it.

dan
I always found that strange because when I was running my own firm, 
you cannot NOT afford to check out something that's going to 
revolutionize what you've been doing thus far - even if it means 
obsoleting everything you've already done.

Not having the time to learn or relearn - is a CHOICE.
I've always hated writing lots of code, so I spent my energy writing 
code to eliminate the need to write more of the same code in the 
future.

Jesse
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Re: Delete card Answer box

[SB]

on mouseUp
   answer "Do you really want to delete this card?" with "Yes" or "No"
-- No is default
   put it into ldelete
   send doDelete (ldelete) to me in 30
end mouseUp
function doDelete ldelete
   if ldelete is "Yes" then delete this card
  end doDelete

Thomas J. McGrath III
Great, that works!  Thanks,  Thomas!
Sandy
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Re: OT? Apache SSL Stack?

[Brian Yennie]

Rick,
It's worth noting that these instructions are for Mac OS X _Server_
http://developer.apple.com/server/security_ssl.html
While these are for ordinary MacOS X (consumer/client/whatever)
http://developer.apple.com/internet/serverside/modssl.html
mod_ssl is simply the Apache module (i.e. "plugin"). Apache SSL is a 
separately maintained product, and will require a lot more work if you 
aren't comfortable on the command-line. If you already have Apple's 
Apache installed, you'll want to enable mod_ssl, _not_ try to replace 
Apache with Apache SSL. Personally, I would use mod_ssl regardless as 
it'll always work with a vanilla Apache installation.

See this quote
Apache-SSL is not mod_ssl
There appears to be some confusion regarding Apache-SSL and mod_ssl. 
To set the record straight: mod_ssl is not a replacement for 
Apache-SSL - it is an alternative, in the same way that Apache is an 
alternative to Netscape/Microsoft servers, or Linux is an alternative 
to FreeBSD. It is a matter of personal choice as to which you run. 
mod_ssl is what is known as a 'split' - i.e. it was originally derived 
from Apache-SSL, but has been extensively redeveloped so the code now 
bears little relation to the original.

Apache-SSL continues to be developed and maintained, our main focus 
being on reliability, security and performance, rather than features 
and bells and whistles. I hope this makes things clear. (Adam Laurie).
Hope that helps- I know it doesn't solve your problem of creating a 
stack, but you may have more success with the mod_ssl link that was 
posted than what you were using, especially if you're not on MacOS X 
Server. If it goes smoothly, you could probably hatch the shell 
commands together into a Rev stack without too much trouble...

- Brian

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
http://developer.apple.com/internet/serverside/modssl.html

Frank,
The instructions on Apple's Website about Apache SSL don't work.
http://developer.apple.com/server/security_ssl.html
There is also some confusion on the internet as to whether Apache SSL
and ModSSL are the same animal.
What I was trying to say is that for those of us who aren't
Unix Terminal type people, a simple Revolution SSL Stack which
simplifies the setup might have some money making potential
for the individual who is able to set up such a Stack.
If you've read over the ModSSL instructions you can see how
lengthly the process is for someone who is not a Unix person.
Thanks for the post anyway.  It probably means that I'll have to
be the person who writes the stack.  :-(
Rick
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Re: OT? Apache SSL Stack?

[Rick Harrison]

On Mar 22, 2005, at 12:20 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
http://developer.apple.com/internet/serverside/modssl.html

Frank,
The instructions on Apple's Website about Apache SSL don't work.
http://developer.apple.com/server/security_ssl.html
There is also some confusion on the internet as to whether Apache SSL
and ModSSL are the same animal.
What I was trying to say is that for those of us who aren't
Unix Terminal type people, a simple Revolution SSL Stack which
simplifies the setup might have some money making potential
for the individual who is able to set up such a Stack.
If you've read over the ModSSL instructions you can see how
lengthly the process is for someone who is not a Unix person.
Thanks for the post anyway.  It probably means that I'll have to
be the person who writes the stack.  :-(
Rick
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Re: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Dan Shafer]

Back in the 80's and 90's, when I was a strong advocate of OOP in 
general and Smalltalk in particular, I continually ran into the 
obstacle I came to think of as the IASFBSIDHTTT syndrome: I Am So Far 
Behind Schedule I Don't Have Time To Think. Whether dealing with 
in-house or out-house (never did like that "in-house" thing!) 
developers, the problem was the same: even if you could prove 
absolutely that this new language was more powerful and effective than 
my current tool set, I don't have time to evaluate it, learn it, and 
rebuild all my libraries and tools in it.

dan
On Mar 22, 2005, at 6:02 PM, Jesse Sng wrote:
For a professional developer (as opposed to in-house), picking up a 
new environment that's going to save you a tremendous amount of time 
is not a problem and is definitely a plus.
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Re: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Jesse Sng]

I have my own theories about the best audiences for RR to pursue, 
and I won't burden the list with them because I don't get to vote 
anyway, but those abandoning VB isn't on my list.

dan
Those abadoning VB want to go to something that allows them to get 
their apps up and running with very little code changes. They have an 
existing investment in their codebase and need to move it.

The differences between VB and Rev are so fundamental that it would 
require learning a totally new paradigm and this is not something 
that many in-house corporate developers would bother. Many of them 
also would stumble over their misconceptions about dealing with a 
scripting language as opposed to a compiled language like VB and all 
the usual debates over code performance will be thrown about.

RB, which after all uses the same basic (pun intended) language and 
development paradigm as VB, is in a much better position to capture 
those refugees than RR is.
This is true for developers who don't mind picking up a new 
development environment, but many aren't going to want to do that. If 
they were building a new app, that's a possibility, but the fear 
would be that the cost of rewrites is prohibitive when coupled with 
the cost/time of learning RR.

Those who have had experienced with similar environments to RR have 
no problems with this and it probably only needs a few minutes 
reorientation to get off the ground. Not so for your VB developer.

For a professional developer (as opposed to in-house), picking up a 
new environment that's going to save you a tremendous amount of time 
is not a problem and is definitely a plus.

Jesse
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Re: Rev and Externals (Was Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software)

[Dan Shafer]

That sounds rational.
Dan
On Mar 22, 2005, at 5:34 PM, Dar Scott wrote:
On Mar 22, 2005, at 6:04 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
I'd like to second this notion

 start using external "fabulousexternal.dll"
As long as we have the external interface we have now, I'd rather 
'start using' a library that uses an external.  The library can do 
things that don't need to be done in an external and can act as the 
sugar-coating glue to the external.

Dar
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Re: Rev and Externals (Was Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software)

[Dar Scott]

On Mar 22, 2005, at 6:04 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:
I'd like to second this notion

 start using external "fabulousexternal.dll"
As long as we have the external interface we have now, I'd rather 
'start using' a library that uses an external.  The library can do 
things that don't need to be done in an external and can act as the 
sugar-coating glue to the external.

Dar
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Programming Services and Software
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Re: The paradigm of containers and self-referenced names

[Mikey]

Well, I re-read your original post, and I don't see anything wrong
with the way RR handles  the two cases you cited - to review, if I
have two handlers like the following:

on mouseUp
   put myVar + 3 into myVar
end mouseUp

and 

on mouseUp
   add 3 to myVar
end mouseUp

Your contention is that the fact that the first results in a runtime
error and the second in myVar containing 3 is a problem.

Would  it be better if SOMETHING was more clear SOMEWHERE regarding
this?  Probably.  I just added it to the Tao blog, because I'm sure
somebody else will be confused by it.  However, the docs are
shockingly clear on the behavior, and after reading them there should
be no confusion as to what will happen.  + is designed for two numbers
or arrays of numbers, add is more flexible and can handle any
container, and nearly any object.
-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Rev and Externals (Was Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software)

[Dan Shafer]

I'd like to second this notion and add that doing so is something I 
would not have expected to do even a few months ago.

But I recently had a need to write an app for a client that called 
external libraries for encryption and a couple of other tasks. 
Ultimately, we decided we could not do the project effectively in my 
favorite tool and ended up hiring a Java programmer to do it.  He did 
the entire project in under two weeks and it performs brilliantly.

If Rev had external lib support abstracted into the Transcript language 
in a platform-independent way, I'd have used it and finished the 
project in two or three days!

dan
On Mar 22, 2005, at 3:02 PM, Gordon Webster wrote:
So come on Runtime, how about something like:
 start using external "fabulousexternal.dll"
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Re: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Dan Shafer]

No doubt the *number* of VB refugees hanging out in RB-Land is an 
important number and would be even moreso to Rev which has, I suspect, 
*substantially* fewer users than RB.

But a colleague who is a VB guru and HyperCard-knowledgeable and I 
spent about a month last year looking at what it would take to write a 
translator or even good conversion documentation to enable VBers to 
switch to Rev. It is, as we say in the software biz, a non-trivial 
task. The programming paradigms are just so completely different that 
it did not appear to us that we could achieve anything resembling even 
50% automation of the process. RB, which after all uses the same basic 
(pun intended) language and development paradigm as VB, is in a much 
better position to capture those refugees than RR is.

I have my own theories about the best audiences for RR to pursue, and I 
won't burden the list with them because I don't get to vote anyway, but 
those abandoning VB isn't on my list.

dan
On Mar 22, 2005, at 3:19 PM, Mark Talluto wrote:
6K - 6.5K of VB transferees would be an important number to Rev.  I 
wonder how many of those users would have switched to Rev instead of 
RB had a translator like that been created for Rev.  Is this feature 
important to me?  Nope.  I am just curious.
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Re: Global Madness

[Dan Shafer]

BZ'd as 2721 a few minute ago.
Dan
On Mar 22, 2005, at 2:38 PM, graham samuel wrote:
Following this thread, started by Howard Bornstein and continued by 
Dan Shafer and others, it would appear that there is a bug in the 
RunRev IDE to do with the declaration and use of globals.

I find this disturbing and would like to ask if anyone is attempting 
to flag this in the Bugzilla database? I can see it's a bit of a 
slippery  customer, but it does seem to me we should be asking the RR 
team to pin it down. I have some even more slippery problems with the 
2.5.1 and am beginning to ask myself if the two things are related.

If nobody else wants to do it, I will have a go.
Graham

Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France
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Re: Dreamcard URL

[Alex Tweedly]

Scotty Moon wrote:
Hello,
Newbie here. I'm creating a stack that downloads a specific url and
puts the value into a field. This works fine when I'm developing in
dreamcard, but in the player it does not work.
My transcript for the function is something like:
put URL "whatever.com" into field "blah" (or something of the sort).
Is there a workaround for this? Am I doing something wrong for it to
work in dreamcard itself but not the player?
Thanks in advance,
Scotty
 

My first guess would be that the player is in "secure" mode (in that 
mode, it is not allowed to access the network, or to write files).

In the Player, the RunRev icon in the top right gives you access to the 
Preferences - and you should ensure that it is selected (the text says 
"Run in non-secure mode" - so it should be selected to allow network 
access).

If it's not that - come back to the list and give us any additional info 
you can.

--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors

[Keith Hutchison]

Hi Richard

> > I prefer REALBasic do to it's ability to
> > subclass. Others I work with prefer RunRev. Some even prefer Filemaker.
> >
> > Keith Hutchison
> > REALbasic - Java
> > http://realopen.org
>
> And yet here you are.

Not really, I maintain this subscription because.

1. The people on this list are generally as helpful and as smart as the
people on the RealBasic Lists.

2. At some stage the graphic artists I work with are going to do something
the RunRev code I wrote for them that uses sockets to connect some realbasic
console apps I wrote.
(I found about about this list when writing the code)

3. A good idea is a good idea. This list produces good ideas.

4. Eventually I'll buy a copy of DreamCard or RunRev.
I actually was placing an order for the entry level RunRev just when the
site went down for the new versions. I got turned off by the confusion over
the name change and what DreamCard could and could not do.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic - Java
http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org

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RunRev and sockets.

[Keith Hutchison]

Hi Mark,

> KH> I am really interested in exploring the idea of having RunRev stacks
talking
> KH> to RealBasic compiled apps, via tcpip.
>
> Shouldn't be a problem. I've got runrev stacks talking with MSAccess
> apps over sockets.

Did you have hassles with MSAccess handling dead tcpip connections?

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic - Java
http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Keith Hutchison]

Hi Mark,

> This was not meant to be a Rev vs this or that topic.  I was really
> trying to talk more about the marketing aspect of one app vs a
> competing app.  On this list, many are aware of both Rev and RB and
> could make the fragile connection.
Well thats what it turned into, someone laughing at REALBasic syntax and
showing how much simpler RunRev is. Hence the nature of my response. One of
the hidden beautiful things about REALbasic is you can, using
object.doSomthing.syntax create your own syntax by using subclasses. I am in
no way bagging RunRev.

> It is final...this is a thought that should have stayed right in my
> head.
It provoked thoughtful discussion, so I wouldn't worry about it.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic - Java
http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Mark Wieder]

Mark-

Tuesday, March 22, 2005, 4:20:53 PM, you wrote:

MT> This was not meant to be a Rev vs this or that topic.

Agreed. I normally stay out of those.

-- 
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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Mark Wieder]

Keith-

Tuesday, March 22, 2005, 3:12:47 PM, you wrote:

KH> I am really interested in exploring the idea of having RunRev stacks talking
KH> to RealBasic compiled apps, via tcpip.

Shouldn't be a problem. I've got runrev stacks talking with MSAccess
apps over sockets.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Mark Talluto]

On Mar 22, 2005, at 2:52 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
Keith-
Tuesday, March 22, 2005, 1:58:21 PM, you wrote:
KH> I find it interesting that the title is 'Analyzing competitors'.
I didn't change the original subject when I first replied, but I'm
with you in thinking of them not so much as competitors but just as
different tools to get to the same endpoint. I don't think of runrev
as the One True Tool, but I like to give it little pushes in that
direction...

This was not meant to be a Rev vs this or that topic.  I was really 
trying to talk more about the marketing aspect of one app vs a 
competing app.  On this list, many are aware of both Rev and RB and 
could make the fragile connection.

It is final...this is a thought that should have stayed right in my 
head.

Mark Talluto
--
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com
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Re: [ANN]Tao of RunRev, RunRev Wishlist, and RunRev Documentation Projects

[Mikey]

> Most of the time, that's true. Other times you spend much time trying
> to unlearn some HC things that are different in runrev. Er... at least
> that's true for me. There are times when it's nice just to have an
> empty zen mind when you approach a task.


Of course there are things that I immediately miss, like polymorphing
the language (intercepting and handling language keywords), which
means less wrapper writing, and, of course, my Reports DataPro
external, and a few others.

This is good, though.  It gives me more material for the blog.  Of
course, it will be nice when I'm not the only person contributing.
-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Ken Ray]

On 3/22/05 4:06 PM, "Keith Hutchison"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> Rev:
>> -
>> put the effective textFont of the selection into tFont
>> if tFont <> the label of me then
>>   select line (lineOffset(cr& tFont &cr,cr&btn "FontMenu"&cr)) of
>> btn "FontMenu"
>> end if
>> 
>> or, if you like a one-liner:
>> 
>> select line (lineOffset(cr&(the effective textFont of the selection)
>>   &cr,cr&btn "FontMenu"&cr)) of btn "FontMenu"
> 
> You could also subclass, or extend the syntax of realBasic and have code
> which is
> RealBasic - one line
> 
> fontMenuButton.font = Me.SelTextFont

Well sure, but you can also abtract the Rev code to a one liner as well:

  SetFontButton "FontMenu"

which would call a custom handler to check the current selection and set the
button name passed to it.

> Which code is easier to read/understand?

Mine. ;-)

No, seriously... it all depends on who's doing the reading. Keith, yours is
as easy to read as mine is, but that's because I have a background in VB and
RB. However someone who doesn't have a background in either would find both
equally difficult to understand.
 
> If I want a font menu on a window I just drop a popup menu on the window and
> set it's subclass to kjtlPopupMenuFont.
> 
> That's it.
> 
> Ignorance is a dangerous thing ...

Yes, there are plenty of ways to make it easier to work with in RB. But even
if you subclass, you still have to set up the font menu in the first place
using code similar to what was presented in the RB tutorial. It is only
*later* that you get the benefits of your earlier work. What I was showing
was that "out of the box" the comparison *in this limited case* shows that
Rev takes less code.

HOWEVER, in *the same* tutorial comparison, there are clearly places where
RB is superior. For example, there is a place where you configure a text
field to accept dragged-and-dropped text documents. Here, RB is clearly
superior:

RB:

Me.AcceptFileDrop("text")

Rev:
-
on dragEnter
  if hasTextFiles(the dragData["files"]) then
set the acceptDrop to true
focus me
  end if
end dragEnter
 
function hasTextFiles pFileList
  -- assumes all files are from the same folder, looks for
  -- any file that is a text file
  -- If found, sets a custom prop to be used during the drop
  -- looks for both file extension and type of file
  put the directory into tOldDir
  set the itemDel to "/"
  repeat for each line tFile in pFileList
if tTextFiles = "" then
 set the directory to (item 1 to ­2 of tFile)
 put the detailed files into tFiles
 replace "," with "/" in tFiles
end if
put lineOffset(cr& urlEncode(item -1 of tFile)&",",cr&tFiles) into tLine
put item -1 of line tLine of tFiles into tTypeCreator
if (char -4 to -1 of tTypeCreator = "TEXT") or (char -4 to -1 of tFile =
".txt") then put tFile & cr after tTextFiles
  end repeat
  set the directory to tOldDir
  delete last char of tTextFiles
  set the uTextFiles of me to tTextFiles
  return (tTextFiles <> "")
end hasTextFiles

And I would *kill* for RB's subclassing and toolbox access in Rev. Anyway,
you get the picture,


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Pat Trendler]

This is definitely not very useful, but...
I think you're overestimating the number of VB transferees. From RB's PR 
21/3

The company also announced the results of survey data collected from 831
customers as they purchase REALbasic. Of customers who responded to the
recent survey, 25% are using REALbasic to port existing applications
cross-platform. Of these 25%, nearly half (47%) are using REALbasic to port
existing Visual Basic applications.
Pat
- Original Message - 
From: "Mark Talluto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: Wednesday, March 23, 2005 9:19 AM
Subject: Re: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software


On Mar 22, 2005, at 2:09 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
12% of 50,000 is 6,000.
13% of 50,000 is 6,500.
So, about 6,000 to 6,500 users of RB are VB transferees; good for them. 
One less Microsoft program for them to deal with.

Does anyone find this information useful?
From a marketing perspective, the answer is a strong yes.  That was the 
point of my original post.  I did not specify I admit.  Being a fan of 
Rev, I always notice their competition when mentioned around the net or in 
printed materials.  Without deep knowledge of the inner workings of Rev 
the company, one can only guess.

A much more interesting question:  how many Rev users are transferees 
from other Xtalk languages, such as HyperCard and SuperCard?

Add to this: how many have gone from Xtalks to RB, from Xtalks to VB, 
from VB to Xtalks, etc.

Putting these various pieces of info together may prove rather 
interesting.  Would anyone know how to use it for something constructive? 
Marketing, perhaps, but otherwise, hmm...
Assuming Rev is probably the leading xtalk, focusing on other xtalks would 
provide less useful marketing information.  Not sure how it stacks up to 
ToolBook in user count though.  The whole point is to look at your 
competitors that are creating waves and see how they are doing it.  Not 
knowing how many users there are using Rev makes it difficult to know what 
is important to Rev.  Not knowing the demographics of their user base also 
puts us at a disadvantage as well.

6K - 6.5K of VB transferees would be an important number to Rev.  I wonder 
how many of those users would have switched to Rev instead of RB had a 
translator like that been created for Rev.  Is this feature important to 
me?  Nope.  I am just curious.

If you are creating a product for sale, do you know what your competition 
is offering?  If you do not know their product well enough to teach it to 
someone else, you are truly missing out marketing and development wise.  I 
have a vertical market commercial app that has about 10 competitors.  That 
is a large number in an ever shrinking global market.  We were probably 
the fifth one to market.  With proper analyzation of every competitor we 
had, we were able to position ourselves to be the leader.

It all starts with something as small as my very first comment in the 
original post.  There may be no real point to this thread.  I just find it 
interesting and useful to analyze my competition.  Maybe someone else will 
find it interesting and useful too.

Mark Talluto
--
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com
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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Keith Hutchison]

Hi Mark

> KH> eg. I have a listbox subclass that automatically finds data based on
it's
> KH> name.
>
> True subclassing is one of the things I would most like to have in
> runrev.  Someday.

I am sure it will.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic - Java
http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Keith Hutchison]

Hi Mark,

> KH> I find it interesting that the title is 'Analyzing competitors'.
>
> I didn't change the original subject when I first replied, but I'm
> with you in thinking of them not so much as competitors but just as
> different tools to get to the same endpoint. I don't think of runrev
> as the One True Tool, but I like to give it little pushes in that
> direction...
Same :-)

I am really interested in exploring the idea of having RunRev stacks talking
to RealBasic compiled apps, via tcpip.

eg the following example shows a linux console app (RB compiled) talking to
a REALBasic compiled gui app. It could just as easily be a RunRev stack.
http://balance-infosystems.com/training/linux/commandingWinGUIfromLinux.html


Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic - Java
http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Keith Hutchison]

> 
> replace "bug" with "feature" in myString  ?
> 
in REALBasic I extended the string class so that I can

someString.replaceAll("bug","feature")

without extending it would be
someString = replaceAll( someString, "bug", "feature" )

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf 
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic - Java
http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org 
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Re: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Mark Talluto]

On Mar 22, 2005, at 2:09 PM, Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
12% of 50,000 is 6,000.
13% of 50,000 is 6,500.
So, about 6,000 to 6,500 users of RB are VB transferees; good for 
them.  One less Microsoft program for them to deal with.

Does anyone find this information useful?
From a marketing perspective, the answer is a strong yes.  That was the 
point of my original post.  I did not specify I admit.  Being a fan of 
Rev, I always notice their competition when mentioned around the net or 
in printed materials.  Without deep knowledge of the inner workings of 
Rev the company, one can only guess.

A much more interesting question:  how many Rev users are transferees 
from other Xtalk languages, such as HyperCard and SuperCard?

Add to this: how many have gone from Xtalks to RB, from Xtalks to VB, 
from VB to Xtalks, etc.

Putting these various pieces of info together may prove rather 
interesting.  Would anyone know how to use it for something 
constructive?  Marketing, perhaps, but otherwise, hmm...
Assuming Rev is probably the leading xtalk, focusing on other xtalks 
would provide less useful marketing information.  Not sure how it 
stacks up to ToolBook in user count though.  The whole point is to look 
at your competitors that are creating waves and see how they are doing 
it.  Not knowing how many users there are using Rev makes it difficult 
to know what is important to Rev.  Not knowing the demographics of 
their user base also puts us at a disadvantage as well.

6K - 6.5K of VB transferees would be an important number to Rev.  I 
wonder how many of those users would have switched to Rev instead of RB 
had a translator like that been created for Rev.  Is this feature 
important to me?  Nope.  I am just curious.

If you are creating a product for sale, do you know what your 
competition is offering?  If you do not know their product well enough 
to teach it to someone else, you are truly missing out marketing and 
development wise.  I have a vertical market commercial app that has 
about 10 competitors.  That is a large number in an ever shrinking 
global market.  We were probably the fifth one to market.  With proper 
analyzation of every competitor we had, we were able to position 
ourselves to be the leader.

It all starts with something as small as my very first comment in the 
original post.  There may be no real point to this thread.  I just find 
it interesting and useful to analyze my competition.  Maybe someone 
else will find it interesting and useful too.

Mark Talluto
--
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com
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Re: The paradigm of containers and self-referenced names

[Mikey]

> No, in C the meaning of a statement depends only on declarations in the
> context and its location.
Whatever.  It's polymorphic.  Hand someone a single snippet of C, say
a+b, and it is impossible for them to infer any meaning from it
without reading the rest of the program, the libraries, blah, blah,
blah.

 (rant about paradigms and how I'm making things worse)
I clearly missed something here since I fail to see what the problem
is.  I'll review the thread tonight and comment more fully then. 
Clearly this topic deserves mention in either the tao blog or the
wishlist blog.  One confused, irritated, or otherwise out-of-tune
person deserves a mention in either as assistance to others that
follow.  Of course, I don't consider true bugs as belonging in either,
but rather a topic for bugzilla.


> I don't know what a request blog is.
Whoops!  I meant the wishlist blog.  See the posting on this point
from earlier today.  The subject begins with [ANN].  I look forward to
your submission.

-- 
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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Dreamcard URL

[Scotty Moon]

Hello,
Newbie here. I'm creating a stack that downloads a specific url and
puts the value into a field. This works fine when I'm developing in
dreamcard, but in the player it does not work.

My transcript for the function is something like:

put URL "whatever.com" into field "blah" (or something of the sort).

Is there a workaround for this? Am I doing something wrong for it to
work in dreamcard itself but not the player?
Thanks in advance,
Scotty

-- 
Scotty Moon
w : http://www.scottymoon.com/
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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors

[Richard Gaskin]

Keith Hutchison wrote:
I prefer REALBasic do to it's ability to
subclass. Others I work with prefer RunRev. Some even prefer Filemaker.
Keith Hutchison
REALbasic - Java
http://realopen.org
And yet here you are.
Frank asks:
Does anyone find this information useful?
Entertaining, perhaps.
I've seen a lot of "VS" threads in many venues over my 20 years of 
participation in online communities, and during that time I can't recall 
a single opinion having been changed as a result of such discourse.

Whether politics, macroeconomic theory, or software tools, this pattern 
generally holds up.

Recently I've been reading a book titled "A Theory of Everything" which 
to some degree verifies this phenomenon across a wide variety of 
cultures, and offers explanations of why such things are as they are.

But they as they are just the same, which leads me to answer your 
question like this:

  Aside from analysis by internal stakeholders in more candid
  and therefore less public venues, such comparisons in public
  venues are of greatest value to the competing company able
  to use competitor resources like discussion lists for other
  products to carry its messages.
In this regard I must tip my hat to RB and say "well done." ;)
When their VPs begin using customary siglines to identify themselves 
with confidence and candor they may perhaps become a noble competitor to 
RunRev (still with us, boatman?)

In the meantime I'm down in New Zealand happily coding a manufacturing 
analysis tool in Transcript as part of a multi-year project for which 
all lower-level languages were explicitely rejected.

So it this useful to me?
I'll let you know if I ever have a slowdown in requests for Transcript 
work

:)
--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: [ANN]Tao of RunRev, RunRev Wishlist, and RunRev Documentation Projects

[Mark Wieder]

Mikey-

Tuesday, March 22, 2005, 1:14:22 PM, you wrote:

M> Knowing a ton about HC helps a ton.

Most of the time, that's true. Other times you spend much time trying
to unlearn some HC things that are different in runrev. Er... at least
that's true for me. There are times when it's nice just to have an
empty zen mind when you approach a task.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Gordon Webster]

Re: rev and RB

I like both languages, but I would wager that any rev
user that ever attempted to write a math/science based
applications in rev, quickly noticed certain
significant shortfalls in it. The lack of a real array
type or the lack of any decent support for drawing
your own graphics, to name but a couple.

Rev of course wins hands down if you're building a
multimedia or network based application or designing a
really wizzy user interface. Transcript is great for
high level manipulations of fairly complex objects and
if the task/subtask you need is already "pre-cooked"
in the Transcript recipe book, you're miles ahead of
the competition who are crawling on their hands and
knees by comparison.

With regard to Rev externals though, I think Runtime
are really making a significant marketing gaff by not
improving the ability of rev apps to speak to the
wider world of code libraries. Consider this - rev is
by comparison to other development platforms, a niche
market that needs to grow and gain in popularity to
really establish itself as a serious alternative. Yet
as a rev user, I either have to write tedious wrappers
to external libraries or reinvent the wheel. For
example, if I want to render objects in 3D, I am
effectively cut off from all the wonderful tools (such
as OpenGL) that people have already developed for this
purpose and might seriously consider looking elsewhere
for a platform that plugs me in to this world without
me having to write a bunch of C code. Seriously - rev
makes it difficult for me to capitalize on the huge
collective effort of the software community at large
and any gains I might make in writing fewer lines of
Transcript compared to say Basic, must be weighed
against the purgatory of having to write wrappers for
externals in C - which rather defeats the object of
using a high level language like Transcript in the
first place!

So come on Runtime, how about something like:

 start using external "fabulousexternal.dll"

No C, no damn wrappers, just the Transcript we love to
speak - just look at the Python "ctypes" for an
example of how it could be done.

Best

Gordon

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Mark Wieder]

Troy-

Tuesday, March 22, 2005, 1:32:43 PM, you wrote:

TR> EditField1.Text =
TR> ReplaceLineEndings(EditField1.Text,EndOfLine.Macintosh)

Well, I had to do this in MS VB, not in RB, so I couldn't go that
route, but it's nice to know that RB has this built in. Is there a
similar syntax for something like

replace "bug" with "feature" in myString  ?

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: The paradigm of containers and self-referenced names

[Dar Scott]

On Mar 22, 2005, at 2:01 PM, Mikey wrote:
We need a word for the destination of "put" and "add".  I think
"reference" can work.  In other languages folks use LHS, but since the
LHS is on the right side in these examples, that can be confusing.
generally this is referred to as the "result"
That is new to me.
One of the problems with the paradigm is that the meaning of a
statement depends not on the statement itself, or the statement and
declarations of components, but on its context.
Ever hear of C?  Howabout Java?  In those languages the meaning of a
statement can vary with the types of the arguments, the number of
arguments, or in C's case, where you are in a program.
No, in C the meaning of a statement depends only on declarations in the 
context and its location.

It's not a
flaw, it's part of the Tao.  The paradigm carries with it certain
rights and responsibilities, which one needs to understand.  That
doesn't make it wrong, any more than polymorphism,
multiple-inheritence, or the ability to walk right off the end of an
array in C is wrong.  It just is.
If you want this paradigm, then I suggest you recommend the fix I 
propose.  Or are you really serious about this?


If a name in an undeclared value or reference context
is used anywhere in the handler as a reference it is
a container with an initial value of empty, otherwise
it is a self-referencing name or string constant.
Actually it would be a string literal, but whatever.
You are right.
What good is a paradigm when people don't know how it works?
Thus the Tao blog, and the documentation project.  I think that most
of us that have used HC or SuperCard or MetaCard have a pretty good
grasp of the behavior.
I don't believe you.  You were not able to answer those questions.
When I ask others from the same tradition, they also assume Revolution 
will behave other than it does.

As it is, it is broken.
I just tend to disagree on this point.  It appears to work as I would
expect it to, unless I haven't been paying attention to this thread.
I ran dozens of experiments on this.  Empirical evidence speaks louder 
to me.

I'm going to leave the rest alone.  It's philosophy at this
point and should be continued in the request blog.
I don't know what a request blog is.
My points were not philosophy but real language issues.
You are clinging to something that is not real.
If you truly believe in this paradigm, then you should work to fix it 
and not try to hand out blinders.

Dar
--
**
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http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
Programming Services and Software
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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Mark Wieder]

Keith-

Tuesday, March 22, 2005, 1:58:21 PM, you wrote:

KH> I find it interesting that the title is 'Analyzing competitors'.

I didn't change the original subject when I first replied, but I'm
with you in thinking of them not so much as competitors but just as
different tools to get to the same endpoint. I don't think of runrev
as the One True Tool, but I like to give it little pushes in that
direction...

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Mark Wieder]

Keith-

Tuesday, March 22, 2005, 2:20:35 PM, you wrote:

KH> eg. I have a listbox subclass that automatically finds data based on it's
KH> name.

True subclassing is one of the things I would most like to have in
runrev.  Someday.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Global Madness

[graham samuel]

Following this thread, started by Howard Bornstein and continued by Dan 
Shafer and others, it would appear that there is a bug in the RunRev 
IDE to do with the declaration and use of globals.

I find this disturbing and would like to ask if anyone is attempting to 
flag this in the Bugzilla database? I can see it's a bit of a slippery  
customer, but it does seem to me we should be asking the RR team to pin 
it down. I have some even more slippery problems with the 2.5.1 and am 
beginning to ask myself if the two things are related.

If nobody else wants to do it, I will have a go.
Graham

Graham Samuel / The Living Fossil Co. / UK and France
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Re: Global Madness

[Howard Bornstein]

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005 21:16:16 -0800, Dan Shafer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Howard
> 
> I spent a good bit of time testing this today, and I'm about as
> bewildered as you on some levels. That may or may not be comforting.
> LOL

> 3. However -- and this is where it gets really mysterious to me -- it
> NEVER fails to pass the correct value of the global to other handlers
> in the same script, no matter whether I've "initialized" it. So I was
> NOT able to reproduce that particular aspect of the behavior you
> mentioned.

Hi Dan,

Thank you (and John and Chipp) so much for verifying this. As a
result, I've just cancelled my appointment with my brain-care
specialist.

I agree that if the variables always get passed, then this is more of
a curiosity than a real problem. I had solved this issue in my script
by initializing these globals with dummy values and things then worked
fine.

I just went back to my scripts and commented out the initializing
code, and you know what...it's still working(!) I hope I didn't create
a tempest in a teapot here. But initially this didn't work in my
script. The reason it threw me so much is that I've *never* had
problems with globals and I probably use them more than many on this
list because my situation innoculates me from many of the programming
issues with globals.

And I had been using other globals in my program with no problem.
However, John Vokey noted that he's seen this problem before and that
its appearance is inconsistent. His descriptions of globals sometimes
working and sometimes not is consistent with the testing I did.
Unfortunately, I don't currently have a reproducible recipe of globals
not passing their values to other handlers--something I would
definitely consider bugzillable.

I've often used globals in the past as a debugging tool, since they
retain their values after a handler has ended. It's a simple matter
(or it used to be) to type their names in the message box to see if
they have the values I expect them too.

This little exercise has surprised me with this behavior and it's
really mind-boggling to find that this exists as far back as V2.2.1.

I'll continue testing this with my app and I appreciate those who took
the time to verify this with me. If this does continue to happen
intermittently, its the kind of bug that can really drive you nuts!

-- 
Regards,

Howard Bornstein
---
www.designeq.com
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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Keith Hutchison]

> RealBasic - one line
> 
> fontMenuButton.font = Me.SelTextFont
>
further, you can create custom bindings in REALbasic where you have one
subclass talking to another.

So you can get the result you want by setting the subclasses and 'drawing' a
line between the two objects.

eg. I have a listbox subclass that automatically finds data based on it's
name.
And the data source can be postgres, mysql, xml, adodb.
At the window level, all I have is the listbox.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic - Java
http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Keith Hutchison]

Hi Troy

> > Given that both RunRev and RealBasic can use tcpip sockets I think of
the
> > products as complimentary. I prefer REALBasic do to it's ability to
> > subclass. Others I work with prefer RunRev. Some even prefer Filemaker.
> >
>
> Well, they are clearly more designed to be competitors than partners,
> but I get what you are saying.
>
> In my case, we use several tools too, generally trying to select the
> right language and IDE to best perform the scope of the project.
> Frequently, Revolution has won over the other tools as it is extremely
> productive. REALbasic usually wins out when capability and depth is
> the most important thing. Director is the fastest to do fully custom
> "multimedia" and UI... and so on.

I agree, the task at hand is the important focus.

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic - Java
http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Troy Rollins]

> 
> Given that both RunRev and RealBasic can use tcpip sockets I think of the
> products as complimentary. I prefer REALBasic do to it's ability to
> subclass. Others I work with prefer RunRev. Some even prefer Filemaker.
> 

Well, they are clearly more designed to be competitors than partners,
but I get what you are saying.

In my case, we use several tools too, generally trying to select the
right language and IDE to best perform the scope of the project.
Frequently, Revolution has won over the other tools as it is extremely
productive. REALbasic usually wins out when capability and depth is
the most important thing. Director is the fastest to do fully custom
"multimedia" and UI... and so on.

-- 
Troy Rollins
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net
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Re: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
12% of 50,000 is 6,000.
13% of 50,000 is 6,500.
So, about 6,000 to 6,500 users of RB are VB transferees; good for them. 
 One less Microsoft program for them to deal with.

Does anyone find this information useful?
A much more interesting question:  how many Rev users are transferees 
from other Xtalk languages, such as HyperCard and SuperCard?

Add to this: how many have gone from Xtalks to RB, from Xtalks to VB, 
from VB to Xtalks, etc.

Putting these various pieces of info together may prove rather 
interesting.  Would anyone know how to use it for something 
constructive?  Marketing, perhaps, but otherwise, hmm...

On Mar 22, 2005, at 4:50 PM, Pat Trendler wrote:
Mark Talluto wrote:
The VB porter appears to be generating new customers for RB.  From 
this bit one can estimate that roughly 12-13% of their entire user 
base has come over from the VB camp.  I am sure it has been written 
somewhere what their user size is.

From their PR dept 15/2/05 -
REALbasic supports a community of over fifty thousand developers 
worldwide.

Pat
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- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCQJet7aqtWrR9cZoRAtvQAJ0TF/Mo4ALZuhg8PPadV2enU6YXXwCfY1Ew
6Uxgz0Fer7CsceTduBZnBdI=
=DRmp
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Keith Hutchison]

> Rev:
> -
> put the effective textFont of the selection into tFont
> if tFont <> the label of me then
>   select line (lineOffset(cr& tFont &cr,cr&btn "FontMenu"&cr)) of
> btn "FontMenu"
> end if
>
> or, if you like a one-liner:
>
> select line (lineOffset(cr&(the effective textFont of the selection)
>   &cr,cr&btn "FontMenu"&cr)) of btn "FontMenu"

You could also subclass, or extend the syntax of realBasic and have code
which is
RealBasic - one line

fontMenuButton.font = Me.SelTextFont

with the font method you then test if the new value equals the old value and
then take the action you want.

Which code is easier to read/understand?

If I want a font menu on a window I just drop a popup menu on the window and
set it's subclass to kjtlPopupMenuFont.

That's it.

Ignorance is a dangerous thing ...

Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic - Java
http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Keith Hutchison]

> Tuesday, March 22, 2005, 10:21:33 AM, you wrote:
>
> DS> Mark, does RB support the creation of externals? I was under the
> DS> impression it didn't.
No. But there is a feature request for externals.

> Er... I'm not sure... I don't think so. What I meant was that RB and
> VB have a way of calling functions that are in external libraries
> (DLLs and such), while you have to do a bit more work creating shim
> functions in runrev to get there.
REALBasic also is able to call external libraries. On MacOSX, Linux and
Win32.

I find it interesting that the title is 'Analyzing competitors'.

Given that both RunRev and RealBasic can use tcpip sockets I think of the
products as complimentary. I prefer REALBasic do to it's ability to
subclass. Others I work with prefer RunRev. Some even prefer Filemaker.


Keith Hutchison
Balance-Infosystems.Com

postgresql - mysql - dbf
Foxpro - Delphi - MS Access - REALbasic - Java
http://balance-infosystems.com http://realopen.org


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Re: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Pat Trendler]

Mark Talluto wrote:
The VB porter appears to be generating new customers for RB. 
 From this bit one can estimate that roughly 12-13% of their entire 
user base has come over from the VB camp.  I am sure it has been 
written somewhere what their user size is.  

From their PR dept 15/2/05 -
REALbasic supports a community of over fifty thousand developers worldwide.
Pat
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Re: does Apple's QuickTime licensing affect Shakobox?

[J. Landman Gay]

On 3/22/05 3:00 PM, Erik Hansen wrote:
> --- "J. Landman Gay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
>
>
>>But be sure to check out Apple's licensing
>>policies for QuickTime
>>distribution. They are very explicit and have
>>so many rules and
>>restrictions that in many cases it is not
>>practical. I have a client who
>>had to give up the idea after contacting
>>Apple's licensing department,
>>as the requirements were not do-able for a
>>small developer.
>
>
> does Apple's QuickTime licensing affect Shakobox?
No. The QT license is for people who want to ship the QT installer along 
with their own software. Shakobox just uses the copy of QT that is 
already installed.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Troy Rollins]

> 
> i = instr(myString, chr$(13)+chr$(10))
> while (i >> 0)
>  myString = left$(myString, i-1) + chr$(10) + mid$(myString, i+2)
>  i = instr(myString, chr$(13)+chr$(10))
> wend
> 
> Pretty close to what I came up with, although your implementation is
> more compact an probably a bit faster - I may go back and look into
> modifying mine a bit some day. I think you want right() instead of
> mid(), though, and the "$" syntax has been deprecated for some time
> now.
> 

Just to be fair, and so not to get too overly smug, this is how
someone that is actually familiar with RB would approach the task -

EditField1.Text = ReplaceLineEndings(EditField1.Text,EndOfLine.Macintosh)

It hardly seems so crazy complex when put that way, does it?

FWIW.

-- 
Troy Rollins
RPSystems, Ltd.
www.rpsystems.net
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Re: [ANN]Tao of RunRev, RunRev Wishlist, and RunRev Documentation Projects

[Mikey]

> I'm impressed by the energy and enthusiasm with which you've jumped into
> to learning Rev, and returning the results of that learning to the
> community.
Knowing a ton about HC helps a ton.  Of course it doesn't always help
to identify issues that belong in the Tao blog, but hopefully scanning
lots of the newsgroup traffic will.  Of course what helps more is if
people take the time to either join the tao blog or email me their
submissions.
-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Basic Image Processor Stack

[Alejandro Tejada]

on Mon, 21 Mar 2005 
Ben Fisher wrote:

>My Image Processor Stack features Brightness and 
>Contrast.

>It's on RevOnline
>User Name: BenJam
>Stack: Basic Image Processor.

Hi Ben,

Congratulations!
Your stack is impressive, certainly. :-)
I'm curious to know why your stack closes
the DreamCard player.

>If you aren't impressed, a newer version of 
>this stack will be online later this week with 
>convolution and other goodies. I'm almost done with 
>an external for doing this and other image 
>manipulation.

This is great to know!! :-))
Keep Up(loaded) your good work!

al


Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/



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Re: The paradigm of containers and self-referenced names

[Mikey]

> We need a word for the destination of "put" and "add".  I think
> "reference" can work.  In other languages folks use LHS, but since the
> LHS is on the right side in these examples, that can be confusing.
generally this is referred to as the "result"

> One of the problems with the paradigm is that the meaning of a
> statement depends not on the statement itself, or the statement and
> declarations of components, but on its context.
Ever hear of C?  Howabout Java?  In those languages the meaning of a
statement can vary with the types of the arguments, the number of
arguments, or in C's case, where you are in a program.  It's not a
flaw, it's part of the Tao.  The paradigm carries with it certain
rights and responsibilities, which one needs to understand.  That
doesn't make it wrong, any more than polymorphism,
multiple-inheritence, or the ability to walk right off the end of an
array in C is wrong.  It just is.

> If a name in an undeclared value or reference context
> is used anywhere in the handler as a reference it is
> a container with an initial value of empty, otherwise
> it is a self-referencing name or string constant.
Actually it would be a string literal, but whatever.

> What good is a paradigm when people don't know how it works?
Thus the Tao blog, and the documentation project.  I think that most
of us that have used HC or SuperCard or MetaCard have a pretty good
grasp of the behavior.

> As it is, it is broken.
I just tend to disagree on this point.  It appears to work as I would
expect it to, unless I haven't been paying attention to this thread.

 I'm going to leave the rest alone.  It's philosophy at this
point and should be continued in the request blog.

--
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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does Apple's QuickTime licensing affect Shakobox?

[Erik Hansen]

--- "J. Landman Gay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> But be sure to check out Apple's licensing
> policies for QuickTime 
> distribution. They are very explicit and have
> so many rules and 
> restrictions that in many cases it is not
> practical. I have a client who 
> had to give up the idea after contacting
> Apple's licensing department, 
> as the requirements were not do-able for a
> small developer.

does Apple's QuickTime licensing affect Shakobox?

[EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.erikhansen.org



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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Mark Wieder]

Frank-

Tuesday, March 22, 2005, 10:00:23 AM, you wrote:

i = instr(myString, chr$(13)+chr$(10))
while (i >> 0)
 myString = left$(myString, i-1) + chr$(10) + mid$(myString, i+2)
 i = instr(myString, chr$(13)+chr$(10))
wend

Pretty close to what I came up with, although your implementation is
more compact an probably a bit faster - I may go back and look into
modifying mine a bit some day. I think you want right() instead of
mid(), though, and the "$" syntax has been deprecated for some time
now.

I always had the impression that at least basic's strength was string
handling. Having to go back to it after dealing with xtalk, though, is
eye-opening. And it took me a while to remember the name of the
instr() function.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Ken Ray]

On 3/22/05 2:20 PM, "Richard Gaskin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Dan Shafer wrote:
>> 
>> On Mar 22, 2005, at 9:47 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:
>> 
>>> And,
>>> of course, there's no comparison when it comes to starting a new
>>> project from scratch. At least until you need to get out of the
>>> sandbox and craft an external.
>>> 
>> Mark, does RB support the creation of externals? I was under the
>> impression it didn't.
> 
> As a lower-level language, in effect everything is like writing what us
> 4GLers consider "externals".

:-)

Here's one of my favorites - taken from a RB/Rev comparison doc I wrote up
based on the code provided in the RB Tutorial (which is basically putting
together a simple text editor):

Updating a "font" menu button Based on the currently selected text:

RB:

If Me.SelTextFont<>FontMenu.Caption then
  FontMenu.Caption=Me.SelTextFont
 FontMenu.MenuValue=SetFontMenu(me.SelTextFont)
End If
 
Protected Function SetFontMenu(CurrentFont as String) As Integer
  Dim i,nFonts as Integer
  nFonts = Fontcount-1
  For i=0 to nFonts
If CurrentFont=TextWindow.FontMenu.list(i) then
  Return i
  Exit
End If
  Next
End Function


Rev:
-
put the effective textFont of the selection into tFont
if tFont <> the label of me then
  select line (lineOffset(cr& tFont &cr,cr&btn "FontMenu"&cr)) of
btn "FontMenu"
end if

or, if you like a one-liner:

select line (lineOffset(cr&(the effective textFont of the selection)
  &cr,cr&btn "FontMenu"&cr)) of btn "FontMenu"




:-)

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Ken Ray]

On 3/22/05 12:21 PM, "Dan Shafer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Mar 22, 2005, at 9:47 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:
> 
>> And,
>> of course, there's no comparison when it comes to starting a new
>> project from scratch. At least until you need to get out of the
>> sandbox and craft an external.
>> 
> Mark, does RB support the creation of externals? I was under the
> impression it didn't.

Well it has direct toolbox access so there isn't really a need to create
what we would use externals for. However, that said, you can create plugins
or additional object types in RB and a number of people do that.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software
Web site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Mark Wieder]

Dan-

Tuesday, March 22, 2005, 10:21:33 AM, you wrote:

DS> Mark, does RB support the creation of externals? I was under the
DS> impression it didn't.

Er... I'm not sure... I don't think so. What I meant was that RB and
VB have a way of calling functions that are in external libraries
(DLLs and such), while you have to do a bit more work creating shim
functions in runrev to get there.

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 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Trevor DeVore]

On Mar 22, 2005, at 10:21 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:

Mark, does RB support the creation of externals? I was under the 
impression it didn't.
A Revolution external would be referred to as a plugin in RB.  There 
are lots of RB plugins available from what I can gather from Google.

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Blue Mango Multimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: [ANN]Tao of RunRev, RunRev Wishlist, and RunRev Documentation Projects

[Richard Gaskin]

Mikey wrote:
As sort of a curiosity I started some blogs on blogger.com last week. 
After playing with it, I decided to start three projects:
The Tao of RunRev (taoOfRunRev.blogspot.com), designed to document
quirks, exceptions, etc. in RR that people might not otherwise be
aware of
RunRev Wishlist (rrwishlist.blogspot.com), and
RunRev Documentation Project (runrevdocs.blogspot.com), which I might
abandon if I can ever track down the parallel RunRev documentation
project that was started on Yahoo, if it has legs.

The beauty of these projects is that it can be both a user-community
project and yet controlled so that outsiders are not able to pollute
it.
I am asking for the following:
1) People with stuff to contribute to these projects
2) People to assist in improving the blogs in a more general way (i.e.
from a higher level, look & feel, etc.)
If you're interested, please email me right here.  In the meantime,
the Tao project is the only thing that I've actually posted anything
to yet.
Thanks!
Mike.
I'm impressed by the energy and enthusiasm with which you've jumped into 
to learning Rev, and returning the results of that learning to the 
community.

Great stuff!
--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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RE: var chk'r ?? Hold the phone

[Stephen Barncard]

Mister X! Tell us more about the Var Chk'r - is this something you 
wrote? Can't find it in the IDE...

thanks
stephen
i like to work without variable checking at first.
Before release, I launch the Var Chk'r... Somehow, it makes
Rev scripts more solid due to checks written for
level 2 errors... And you find many things that
fix themeselves up the chain of food...
If that helps the tao of scripting! ;)
cheers
Xavier
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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Richard Gaskin]

Dan Shafer wrote:
On Mar 22, 2005, at 9:47 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:
And,
of course, there's no comparison when it comes to starting a new
project from scratch. At least until you need to get out of the
sandbox and craft an external.
Mark, does RB support the creation of externals? I was under the 
impression it didn't.
As a lower-level language, in effect everything is like writing what us 
4GLers consider "externals".

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 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Jonathan Cooper]

On Tuesday, March 22, 2005, at 09:56  PM, Wilhelm Sanke wrote:
Sorry that you have troubles, which however seems to be normal with 
new creations, but is not an excuse for oversights.
The stack works here - and apparently elsewhere as it should - both on 
Windows and MacOS.

Which version of Revolution do you use? You would need 2.5.1 with the 
latest version of the XML Help files.
Could it be that you opened "searchdocs" directly - i.e. not via the 
Rev MenuBar or Message Box - and possibly a different version of 
Revolution was started?
Ah ha!
At the end of my very first message, I wrote:
Rev 2.1.2, Mac OSX 10.2.8
... but this is the first I heard of the requirement for Rev 2.5.1.
Mystery solved.
Regards,
Jonathan
--
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Manager of Information / WWW
Art Gallery of New South Wales
http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/staff/jcooper
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RE: repeating a string

[MisterX]

in our last match of Alex vs Mickey

> >>Another good reason for always declaring variables, and 
> always quoting 
> >>strings used as strings.
> >>
> >>
> >I tend to disagree.  This is similar to the argument that 
> >traditionalists in more conventional 3GL and 4GL's make for 

a thought in between the two POV's...

i like to work without variable checking at first.
Before release, I launch the Var Chk'r... Somehow, it makes
Rev scripts more solid due to checks written for
level 2 errors... And you find many things that
fix themeselves up the chain of food...

If that helps the tao of scripting! ;)

cheers
Xavier 
--
http://monsieurx.com/runrev.php 

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The paradigm of containers and self-referenced names

[Dar Scott]

On Mar 22, 2005, at 10:18 AM, Mikey wrote:
A scary example of that ..
I bet most Rev programmers would agree that
put myVar+3 into myVar
and
   add 3 to myVar
mean the same thing (assuming myVar is an ordinary local variable).
But if myVar is an implicit, not yet initialized, variable, then the
latter works ok, resulting in myVar containing 3; whereas
   put myVar + 3 into myVar
results in an execution error.
Of course it does.  RR and its cousins have a different paradigm for
variables, which is part of the reason why BA referred to them as
"containers" in the original HC, which is appropriate on so many
levels.
I agree that it is good to understand and exploit a paradigm.
In this case, the paradigm--as implemented in Revolution--is flawed.
The container is a good concept.  It is naming that closely represents 
how it behaves.  Languages like BASIC use containers, too, but call 
them variables eroding the math knowledge of students.  BASIC adds to 
this injury by calling the operation that puts a value in a container 
"let".

By using "put" and equals-for-equals (=) xTalk has some honest math 
friendly features.

We need a word for the destination of "put" and "add".  I think 
"reference" can work.  In other languages folks use LHS, but since the 
LHS is on the right side in these examples, that can be confusing.

One of the problems with the paradigm is that the meaning of a 
statement depends not on the statement itself, or the statement and 
declarations of components, but on its context.

Even then, there might be a simple rule to consider the context.  Maybe 
it could be this:

   If a name in an undeclared value or reference context
   is used anywhere in the handler as a reference it is
   a container with an initial value of empty, otherwise
   it is a self-referencing name or string constant.
If one wants to avoid the concept of a self-reference name or
trying to come up for a better name for it, this is equivalent:
   If a container is used anywhere in the handler as a
   reference, its initial value is empty, otherwise its
   initial value is its name.
Unfortunately, those equivalent rules won't work in Transcript.
So what is the rule?
Is it one of these:
1. Like above only the context is execution until that point.
2. Like above only the context is the set of handler lines before
   that point, as seen by the compiler.
3. Like 2 except some commands spoil it.
4. Something else.
5. Like 2 except not on a line basis, but even parts of a line
   are considered and then in an undefined order.
Do you know?  Each person can ask himself.
(What about hidden reference uses as in parameters to some user 
functions?)

What good is a paradigm when people don't know how it works?
We can ask RunRev to simplify it.  Or we can give the paradigm a good 
review and recommend the paradigm shift.  (And then it can be 
documented.  If documentation is too hard, it isn't ready yet.)

As it is, it is broken.
Another good reason for always declaring variables, and always quoting
strings used as strings.
I tend to disagree.  This is similar to the argument that
traditionalists in more conventional 3GL and 4GL's make for typing all
variables, even if the compiler will do it for you.
I don't think this is a good analogy.
Either declaring variables or quoting can be a strategy to work in a 
simplified model, even though the compiler does not.  (One need not do 
both for this particular concern.)

Personally, I quote all string literals.  I sometimes declare variables 
to document the use of the initial empty value.  (For customers with a 
particular style requirement, I follow that.)

For me (a big qualifier, since we all know I'm weird), I find field 
"Last Name" easier to read than field lastName and less ambiguous.  
(Yeah, I know, purists would use fld lastName and then say it is 
readable.)

Dar
--
**
DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab)
http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
Programming Services and Software
**
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Re: Is this possible...

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Hmm... you could try using the script to somehow launch an external 
program and then shut down the running program in order to allow the 
external program to replace then relaunch it.

That might be a way to do it, if you can figure out how to launch an 
external program without pausing the script (such that the first 
program can quit and leave the other program running).

On a Mac you can do this with AppleScript; on a Windows box, you would 
need to use the "start" command in a shell() command.

On Mar 22, 2005, at 1:43 PM, Dan Friedman wrote:
Got a question...
Is it possible to update the Rev engine in a standalone without doing a
reinstall.  Let me explain:
I have a stack that I have made into a standalone.  The standalone, 
when
launched, opens other stacks that contain the workings of my 
application.
Now, whenever I make changes to my application, I can update the other 
stack
files without having to have my clients reinstall.  In fact, I do this 
via
the web.  I have a "Check for Updates" in my "Help" menu that can 
check my
web site for updates and download newer versions automatically.

Now that the Rev Engine has been changed, I need to update the 
standalone.
Is there any way to do this in script?  Or, do I have to have my 
clients
manually download the new engine (the standalone)?  I don't think you 
can
write over a running application... Or can you?

Any thoughts or insight would be appreciated.
-Dan
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- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCQGs/7aqtWrR9cZoRAq+zAKCA09qxRknb3+aQjg+YIrFG7vyn/ACgh7HL
9sAxbTXH9hMmAed0duJHEN4=
=d1Vr
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [ANN]Tao of RunRev, RunRev Wishlist, and RunRev Documentation Projects

[Alex Tweedly]

Mikey wrote:
As sort of a curiosity I started some blogs on blogger.com last week. 
After playing with it, I decided to start three projects:
The Tao of RunRev (taoOfRunRev.blogspot.com), designed to document
quirks, exceptions, etc. in RR that people might not otherwise be
aware of
RunRev Wishlist (rrwishlist.blogspot.com), and
RunRev Documentation Project (runrevdocs.blogspot.com), which I might
abandon if I can ever track down the parallel RunRev documentation
project that was started on Yahoo, if it has legs.

The beauty of these projects is that it can be both a user-community
project and yet controlled so that outsiders are not able to pollute
it.
I am asking for the following:
1) People with stuff to contribute to these projects
2) People to assist in improving the blogs in a more general way (i.e.
from a higher level, look & feel, etc.)
If you're interested, please email me right here.  In the meantime,
the Tao project is the only thing that I've actually posted anything
to yet.
 

I'd be interested in a TaoOfRunRev - but I can't see that a blog is a 
suitable format for it. It's even worse than the email archive for 
searching, or organization of contents.  Note that I don't actually have 
a better suggestion right now, but I think a blog is definitely not the 
answer. It should be something that can have a "contents" or directory 
format, and supports good searching methods.  (I tried searching for 
"script" (since I could see it in the second or third most recent 
entry),  and the blog search tool told me it couldn't be found in this 
blog.)  I'd also suggest that it should support code inclusion (either 
code fragments or stacks) so that we could include the "proof" of any 
performance statement; that would make it easy to look to see exactly 
*which* context had been tested.

Rev documentation group is RevDocs - at 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/RevDocs/
It is pretty variable - long quiet spells between intensive flurries of 
activity.

--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net

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Is this possible...

[Dan Friedman]

Got a question...

Is it possible to update the Rev engine in a standalone without doing a
reinstall.  Let me explain:

I have a stack that I have made into a standalone.  The standalone, when
launched, opens other stacks that contain the workings of my application.
Now, whenever I make changes to my application, I can update the other stack
files without having to have my clients reinstall.  In fact, I do this via
the web.  I have a "Check for Updates" in my "Help" menu that can check my
web site for updates and download newer versions automatically.

Now that the Rev Engine has been changed, I need to update the standalone.
Is there any way to do this in script?  Or, do I have to have my clients
manually download the new engine (the standalone)?  I don't think you can
write over a running application... Or can you?

Any thoughts or insight would be appreciated.

-Dan

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Re: repeating a string

[Alex Tweedly]

Mikey wrote:

Another good reason for always declaring variables, and always quoting
strings used as strings.
   

I tend to disagree.  This is similar to the argument that
traditionalists in more conventional 3GL and 4GL's make for typing all
variables, even if the compiler will do it for you.  I couldn't
disagree more.  If you embrace the Tao then this is unnecessary. 
Remember, this is a different paradigm.
 

If I were to magically become a decent typist, I'd probably agree with you.
But given my current typing accuracy level, I need the crutch of 
spellcheckers in documents, and the equivalent of spellchecking in my 
scripting. So I personally need the help that I can get from declaring 
variables (and setting the switch in the IDE to always require variables 
to be declared).

The issue isn't the paradigm - it's the typong ...
(yes, I did mean typong :-)
--
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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Dan Shafer]

On Mar 22, 2005, at 9:47 AM, Mark Wieder wrote:
And,
of course, there's no comparison when it comes to starting a new
project from scratch. At least until you need to get out of the
sandbox and craft an external.
Mark, does RB support the creation of externals? I was under the 
impression it didn't.

Dan
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Re: OT? Apache SSL Stack?

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
http://developer.apple.com/internet/serverside/modssl.html
What kind of problem did you have trying to follow those instructions?  
They worked fine for me.

On Mar 22, 2005, at 11:49 AM, Rick Harrison wrote:
Has anyone out there created a Revolution stack to get
Apple Macintosh Apache SSL up and working quickly?
The instructions at Apple don't appear to work for some reason, and 
there seems
to be a lot of confusion about it on the internet.

I think that someone who could create an Apache SSL setup stack might 
be able
to make some money with it.

One could probably do it just with shell commands?  Yes?
It would be a great project for Revolution!
Let me know...
Thanks!
Rick Harrison
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- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCQFPi7aqtWrR9cZoRAr2vAJ9ven83hZx3Gcf4CSO1lWOEpit5rQCdGe1A
3r5w6hXiuJpIlPuyey+lGZk=
=bADf
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Been a while since I worked in Basic, but iirc, something like this:
i = instr(myString, chr$(13)+chr$(10))
while (i > 0)
  myString = left$(myString, i-1) + chr$(10) + mid$(myString, i+2)
  i = instr(myString, chr$(13)+chr$(10))
wend
It's hardly efficient, and possibly riddled with syntax errors (I'm 
thinking back to QuickBasic actually, though equivalent VB code should 
be similar to this), but I think that would work.

Looks a lot messier than
replace crlf with lf in myString
though, doesn't it?
On Mar 22, 2005, at 12:47 PM, Mark Wieder wrote:
Aside: I recently had to code a VB equivalent to
  replace crlf with linefeed in myString
and it was no fun.
- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCQF037aqtWrR9cZoRAtvUAKCFfgQW322ozFQ16hQ8hWO+w2oMtwCfWanD
IoQ32XX+TuN9qFKKXBz+PLk=
=5lRQ
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Mark Wieder]

Mark-

Tuesday, March 22, 2005, 7:05:45 AM, you wrote:

MT> There is a small bit at MacCentral:  
MT>  with the
MT> following paragraph:   "REAL Software noted in the REALbasic 5.5.5
MT> release that of the 25 percent or so of its user base who are porting
MT> applications, 47 percent are porting Visual Basic applications 
MT> specifically."

As a veteran of having ported more than my share of VB into xtalk, I
can state that the VB-to-RB path is much easier than the rethinking it
takes to get to runrev. Especially for developers who are comfortable
with the spaghetti code that you always end up with in VB. RB usually
requires only minor changes to the code before it will compile as a
cross-platform app. In the real world I think RB probably offers a
better time-to-market for cross-platform porting. If that's all you're
after.

That said, you don't get the benefits of runrev when you make a
straightforward conversion. The real advantages start to appear when
you analyze and redesign the code instead of recoding verbatim. And,
of course, there's no comparison when it comes to starting a new
project from scratch. At least until you need to get out of the
sandbox and craft an external.

One of the main tasks facing any new development environment is trying
to convince basic programmers to unlearn the bad habits they've picked
up. RB has an advantage here in that VB programmers can keep all their
bad habits without penalty. Not too much thinking involved.

Aside: I recently had to code a VB equivalent to
  replace crlf with linefeed in myString
and it was no fun.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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[ANN]Tao of RunRev, RunRev Wishlist, and RunRev Documentation Projects

[Mikey]

As sort of a curiosity I started some blogs on blogger.com last week. 
After playing with it, I decided to start three projects:
The Tao of RunRev (taoOfRunRev.blogspot.com), designed to document
quirks, exceptions, etc. in RR that people might not otherwise be
aware of
RunRev Wishlist (rrwishlist.blogspot.com), and
RunRev Documentation Project (runrevdocs.blogspot.com), which I might
abandon if I can ever track down the parallel RunRev documentation
project that was started on Yahoo, if it has legs.

The beauty of these projects is that it can be both a user-community
project and yet controlled so that outsiders are not able to pollute
it.

I am asking for the following:
1) People with stuff to contribute to these projects
2) People to assist in improving the blogs in a more general way (i.e.
from a higher level, look & feel, etc.)

If you're interested, please email me right here.  In the meantime,
the Tao project is the only thing that I've actually posted anything
to yet.

Thanks!
Mike.
-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: quickest way to remove text between paranthesis ?

[Mikey]

I'll have to dig out my old cdr() and car() functions I wrote for HC
that handle this.  While this is intuitively obvious, the code was a
little convoluted to optimize the behavior for large lists.  cdr and
car are LISP functions that deal with lists (which in LISP are
delimeted by parentheses).  However, this isn't a single-line
solution, unless you want to ignore the code in the functions.


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On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: repeating a string

[Mikey]

> A scary example of that ..
> I bet most Rev programmers would agree that
> put myVar+3 into myVar
> and
>add 3 to myVar
> mean the same thing (assuming myVar is an ordinary local variable).
> But if myVar is an implicit, not yet initialized, variable, then the
> latter works ok, resulting in myVar containing 3; whereas
>put myVar + 3 into myVar
> results in an execution error.

Of course it does.  RR and its cousins have a different paradigm for
variables, which is part of the reason why BA referred to them as
"containers" in the original HC, which is appropriate on so many
levels.  It's also why I decided to start the Tao of RunRev project. 
I'll probably make an announcement on this and ask for posts shortly. 
Oh hell, I'll just start a new thread and do it now.

> Another good reason for always declaring variables, and always quoting
> strings used as strings.
I tend to disagree.  This is similar to the argument that
traditionalists in more conventional 3GL and 4GL's make for typing all
variables, even if the compiler will do it for you.  I couldn't
disagree more.  If you embrace the Tao then this is unnecessary. 
Remember, this is a different paradigm.
-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: quickest way to remove text between paranthesis ?

[Dar Scott]

On Mar 22, 2005, at 9:26 AM, jbv wrote:
I have a large variable (about 200 lines with 30 items
in each) and I need to remove parts of some items
(actually parts between paranthesis)...
Is there a quick way to do that, with only 1 command
line for instance ? Using regEx perhaps ?
Yes.  Look at the replaceText() function.
If your parentheses can be nested, this gets a little harder.
Dar
--
**
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http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
Programming Services and Software
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Re: quickest way to remove text between paranthesis ?

[Alex Tweedly]

jbv wrote:
Hi list,
I have a large variable (about 200 lines with 30 items
in each) and I need to remove parts of some items
(actually parts between paranthesis)...
Is there a quick way to do that, with only 1 command
line for instance ? Using regEx perhaps ?
 

Please test this thoroughly - it does what I *think* you want  ...
on mouseUp
  put URL "file:d:/Our Documents/Alex/RunRev/j.txt" into t
  put replaceText(t, "\(.*\)", "<>")  into field "lockedField"
end mouseUp
note that (for testing purposes) I replace the parenthesized section 
with a "<>" - you probably want to change that to
 put replaceText(t, "\(.*\)", "")  into wherever

Currently it changes
this (text)
in the (file) here.
to
this <>
in the <> here.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net

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OT? Apache SSL Stack?

[Rick Harrison]

Has anyone out there created a Revolution stack to get
Apple Macintosh Apache SSL up and working quickly?
The instructions at Apple don't appear to work for some reason, and 
there seems
to be a lot of confusion about it on the internet.

I think that someone who could create an Apache SSL setup stack might 
be able
to make some money with it.

One could probably do it just with shell commands?  Yes?
It would be a great project for Revolution!
Let me know...
Thanks!
Rick Harrison
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quickest way to remove text between paranthesis ?

[jbv]

Hi list,

I have a large variable (about 200 lines with 30 items
in each) and I need to remove parts of some items
(actually parts between paranthesis)...
Is there a quick way to do that, with only 1 command
line for instance ? Using regEx perhaps ?

thanks,
JB

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Re: repeating a string

[Alex Tweedly]

Frank D. Engel, Jr. wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
If you use 'local' or 'global' to declare your variables, this is 
true, unless you specify initial variables at this point.

However, implicit variable declarations (just using the variable name) 
causes them to be initialized to the name of the variable:
It's more subtle than that.
Implicit variable declarations used ONLY AS A SOURCE OF A VALUE do, as 
you say, *appear* to be initialized to the string of the name of the 
variable; but that's only a behaviour (or an appearance, if you like) - 
the variable is not actually initialized to that value, it remains 
implicit.   If the implicit variable is used as a source and target of 
the same operation, then it is initialized to empty.
Thus, the following code sequence
   put apples into t1
   put "abc" after apples
results in t1 containing "apples"
but apples containing only "abc"   - i.e. the first use did NOT 
initialize it.
If the variable apples was actually initialized as described, this would 
have resulted in apples containing "applesabc".

A scary example of that ..
I bet most Rev programmers would agree that
   put myVar+3 into myVar
and
  add 3 to myVar
mean the same thing (assuming myVar is an ordinary local variable).
But if myVar is an implicit, not yet initialized, variable, then the 
latter works ok, resulting in myVar containing 3; whereas
  put myVar + 3 into myVar
results in an execution error.

Another good reason for always declaring variables, and always quoting 
strings used as strings.

--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net

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OT: Analyzing competitors - In this case Real Software

[Mark Talluto]

There is a small bit at MacCentral:  
 with the 
following paragraph:   "REAL Software noted in the REALbasic 5.5.5 
release that of the 25 percent or so of its user base who are porting 
applications, 47 percent are porting Visual Basic applications 
specifically."

This can be read a couple of different ways at a glance.  They have 
been really going after the VB developer market with their last few 
releases.  The VB porter appears to be generating new customers for RB. 
 From this bit one can estimate that roughly 12-13% of their entire 
user base has come over from the VB camp.  I am sure it has been 
written somewhere what their user size is.  More important though is 
knowing who their user base is.  What efforts have awarded them a 
larger user base.

I just love picking up bits of info like this about my competitors.  It 
can give you an edge.  In fact, I find it inspiring.  As Rev and RB are 
in the same vertical and horizontal markets, it is an interesting piece 
of info.

Mark Talluto
--
CANELA Software
http://www.canelasoftware.com
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Re: Making html links do something

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Look up the linkClicked message in the docs.  You can use the put URL 
syntax to get the text file(s) from the web server.  A quick untested 
example:

on linkClicked theTarget
  put URL ("http://myserver.com/files/"; & theTarget) into myVar
  put word 8 of item 2 of of line 3 of myVar into field "Parsed Data"
end linkClicked
On Mar 21, 2005, at 4:48 AM, Varen Swaab wrote:
Hello, I have a question about html links in text areas.
I have an html page loaded into a text field and I'd like to make the 
links in the web page, when clicked, grab a text file from the web 
server to be parsed. I searched for info on this in the docs but 
didn't see it, does anyone know if any examples of this that might be 
floating around? Or, better yet, does anyone know how I might do this?

Thanks.
Var
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- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCQDDE7aqtWrR9cZoRAo90AJ9VI6u18C5WmQcQKxlEIEYO1suUhgCgjSO3
ah20WXO60SW4qEgqFxqEymQ=
=566C
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: [OT] They are not sleeping..

[Mikey]

I heard about this, but I hadn't tried it.  MAN is that fast!

Anybody tried Picasa or Google Maps yet?  Nice.

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: repeating a string

[Mikey]

>What would this function do if handed a non-integer, or completely
> non-numeric, value for "reps"? 
If it's a non-numeric it won't do anything.  HC and its progeny is
smart when it comes to variable...err...container handling.

>Also, I am somewhat uncomfortable with the notion of
> uninitialized variables.
Thankfully, unlike most 3 and 4GL's, HC, RR et al aren't crippled by
this notion.  The first time you reference a container it is
automatically initialized to empty.

>And I suspect that "put before" might actually be a
> bit faster than "put after.
That would be unusual in this branch of CS.  WIthout testing, I would
be willing to bet that it is faster to decrement your starting point
and use "after" than it is to use "before".

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
   and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: repeating a string

[Frank D. Engel, Jr.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
If you use 'local' or 'global' to declare your variables, this is true, 
unless you specify initial variables at this point.

However, implicit variable declarations (just using the variable name) 
causes them to be initialized to the name of the variable:

Try typing something like "put xyzzy" into the msg box (no quotes), the 
response is "xyzzy" (again, no quotes).

This works for other names, too - things like "orange", "fuzzy", and 
"glass" -- whatever is not defined as a keyword or property, etc., and 
even for some things that are.

This is why some of the special "constants" like bold work -- in fact, 
doing a multiline msg box and using this code:

put a into bold
put bold
results in "a" -- not "bold", even though "bold" is documented as a 
keyword!

Next in my line of experiments, I tried this:
local bold
put bold
Which results in empty.  Even though "bold" is documented as a keyword, 
I don't think Rev actually does *anything* special with it.  The 
described behavior for bold flows naturally from the normal workings of 
Transcript, as long as noone tries to cheat by assigning it a value or 
declaring it ;-)

On Mar 21, 2005, at 8:52 PM, Alex Tweedly wrote:
Also, I am somewhat uncomfortable with the notion of uninitialized 
variables.

There is no such thing in Rev. It is defined (and documented) that 
variable which have no specified initial value are created as empty.
- ---
Frank D. Engel, Jr.  <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
$ ln -s /usr/share/kjvbible /usr/manual
$ true | cat /usr/manual | grep "John 3:16"
John 3:16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten 
Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have 
everlasting life.
$
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (Darwin)

iD8DBQFCQCfb7aqtWrR9cZoRAk1OAJ94xWT0rt6gyXsDj9Oc+RH2gzElIwCfW59e
6PcgyujacIMdgRDPidhHP58=
=YcYj
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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Re: Delete card Answer box

[Thomas McGrath III]

WORKS;;;
on mouseUp
  answer "Do you really want to delete this card?" with "Yes" or "No" 
-- No is default
  put it into ldelete
  send doDelete (ldelete) to me in 30
end mouseUp

function doDelete ldelete
  if ldelete is "Yes" then delete this card
 end doDelete
On Mar 21, 2005, at 10:46 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
on mouseUp
answer "Do you really want to delete this card?" with "No" or "Yes"
put it into ldelete
send doDelete(ldelete) to me in 30 miliseconds
end mouseUp
on doDelete ldelete
if ldelete is "Yes" then delete this card
put empty into ldelete -- may not be necessary
end doDelete
Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541
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Update 2.1 of "SearchDocs XML"

[Wilhelm Sanke]

The new version may be downloaded - for the time being - still from 
.

Of the requested changes have been implemented:
- New "copy" feature: Text can be selected in the fields on the right 
and left using the mouse. Then apply the usual copy-and-paste procedures 
from the Menubar or through keyboard shortcuts, e.g. CTRL-C and CTRL-V 
on Windows. To implement this I had to make sure that the fields scripts 
comply with the selection and retain their functionality at the same time.

- "SearchDocs XML 2.1" can be placed either in the main Revolution or 
Metacard folder (where the engine is) or in the "plugins" folder of Rev 
or the MC IDE; The stack will detect where it has been placed and set 
the directory paths for the search accordingly.-

- Simplified searchstring input and the extra option to search all of 
the XML files of the "Dictionary", "Faq", and "Topics" in one run. 
Searching these combined 1992 files will slightly increase the average 
search time to about 160 milliseconds  (WindowsXP, 2 GHz).

- A "readme" field has been added.
Rev 2.5.1 or Metacard 2.6.2 (together with IDE version 2.6 of July 2004 
or later) are needed.

Enjoy if you like the tool (and in case it should work with your 
configuration).

Regards
--Wilhelm Sanke

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Re: Search Rev docs "at the speed of thought"

[Wilhelm Sanke]

On Mon, 21 Mar 2005, Jonathan Cooper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  wrote:
Still no good.:-( I already had the stack in the same folder as 
"Revolution.app", but I thought, maybe it needs to be actually INSIDE 
the bundle (strange, but I thought ... why not? ... worth a try), so I 
moved it to the folder "...Revolution[.app]/Contents/MacOS/" but still 
no good. It starts off with stuff in the left-hand field (as though I 
have just searched for the string "behavior") but, no matter what I 
search for, I only get results in the right-hand field. Regards, 
Jonathan On Sunday, March 20, 2005, at 05:03 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

-- Jonathan Cooper Manager of Information / WWW Art Gallery of New 
South Wales http://www.artgallery.nsw.gov.au/staff/jcooper

Jonathan,
Sorry that you have troubles, which however seems to be normal with new 
creations, but is not an excuse for oversights.
The stack works here - and apparently elsewhere as it should - both on 
Windows and MacOS.

Which version of Revolution do you use? You would need 2.5.1 with the 
latest version of the XML Help files.
Could it be that you opened "searchdocs" directly - i.e. not via the Rev 
MenuBar or Message Box - and possibly a different version of Revolution 
was started?

Anyway, an update 2.1 is available now from  
.

Changes in the update:
- New "copy" feature: Text can be selected in the fields on the right 
and left using the mouse and the usual copy-and-paste procedures from 
the Menubar or through keyboard shortcuts can be applied

- "SearchDocs XML 2.1" can now be placed either in the main Revolution 
or Metacard folder (where the engine is) or in the "plugins" folder of 
Rev or the MC IDE; The stack will detect where it has been placed and 
set the directory paths for the search accordingly.-

- Simplified searchstring input and the extra option to search all of 
the XML files of the "Dictionary", "Faq", and "Topics" in one run.

and  "J. Landman Gay" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
If you are getting results in the right-side field then the location of
the stack on disk is probably fine.
-- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive 
Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

That may not be sufficient proof as the search is carried out by 
searching the *pure-text* versions of the XML-Help files that are stored 
as arrays inside the stack. This arrangement contributes to the fast 
search speed of between 50 to 200 milliseconds.

I have got another "basic" version of the search stack that extracts the 
"pure text" of the XML files *during* the search; the search time needed 
for this solution is still tolerable, about 750 milliseconds to two 
seconds for each search depending on  platform, IDE (Rev is slower than 
the Metacard IDE), and speed of the computer.
However, for some reason, the very first search (after starting the 
computer and launching Revolution or MC) and only this first search with 
this "basic" stack needs about  three seconds with Metacard and up to 
seven with Rev. After the first search the search speed is back to 
normal , 750 milliseconds to two seconds.

I  sent a post about this "anomaly" to the improvement list, but so far 
nobody came up with an explanation.

Regards to you all,
Wilhelm Sanke

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Re: Different platforms, different displayed effects ?

[Klaus Major]

Hi Bob,
Many moons ago I was a sorta scripthead with SC and had to move to 
ToolBook to keep the bills payed. I graciously accept all sympathy, 
thanks !!
:-)
Anyhow, I am now moving everything to Rev and am having a lot of 
issues, unfortunately more so than going from SC to TB.   Most of the 
problems is me having brain farts, but some of them are just weird.
There's likely going to be a lot of obtuse questions I'll post, but to 
start with I don't seem to get close to the same effects and/or 
performance when going from a Mac to a PC or to other PC's.  An 
example is the various visual effects.
Given this;

on mouseUp
 put the textColor of fld "Foo" into Ltemp
 set the textColor of fld "Foo" to white
 lock screen
 set the textColor of fld "Foo" to Ltemp
 unlock screen with visual effect dissolve
end mouseUp
On a Mac OS-X platform the fld shows as a dissolve, but there's a 
flash at the end
First and quick guess: Is the alwaysbuffer of your stack set to true?
On a HP Pavilion zv500 running WinXP  it doesn't do much at all, maybe 
a slight flash.  More like a straight "show obj".
On a WinXP PC desktop it works OK, but grossly different in speed (of 
dissolve) to the Mac.

I certainly don't expect things to be identical or even close, but I 
can likely script around that if I know where the problems lie.  So, 
has anybody written notes or a paper on areas to watch when developing 
cross platform ?
Sorry no paper, but just some thoughts:
The transition "dissolve" will use Quicktime if present!
So this might explain some of the differences you have experienced...
And you CAN control the duration of a transition!
Hint: This IS semantically challenging ;-)
"the effectrate" controls the duration that a "very slow" transition 
will take, yo :-D

So you can write:
...
set the effectrate to 500
## = 500 millisecs
visual dissolve very slow
go next cd
...
The engine will (try) to compensate the duration of 500 millisecs on 
any platform...

In your special case you can even prohibit to use QT for the dissolve 
transitions by simply:

...
set the dontuseqteffects to true
...
So you could try this examply and see if the differneces are still that 
obvious:

on mouseUp
 set the dontuseqteffects to true
 set the effectrate to 1000 ## or whatever you like
 put the textColor of fld "Foo" into Ltemp
 set the textColor of fld "Foo" to white
 lock screen
 set the textColor of fld "Foo" to Ltemp
 unlock screen with visual effect dissolve very slow
end mouseUp
More to the point, has anybody else moved from TB to Rev and would 
like to commiserate with me over some fine Vancouver beer ? :-P
Sorry, never touched TB, but "beer" sounds good :-)
Thanks, Bob...
Regards
Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de
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Re: Text overflow property or function ?

[xbury . cs]

On 21.03.2005 23:44:35 use-revolution-bounces wrote:
>Does anybody know if there is a text overflow property of a fld, or a
>function, that can  specify the number of characters completely or
>partially clipped from the fld ?  By clipped I mean not displayed.
>
>Tnx, Bob...

Hi Bob

you can't really clip text from visibility but you can use the tabstops
to do this. 

Make sure there is a tab after each line so that the tabstop is respected. 
Then the preceding text will be clipped.

Enjoy
Xavier



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Text overflow property or function ?

[Robert J. Earp]

Does anybody know if there is a text overflow property of a fld, or a 
function, that can  specify the number of characters completely or 
partially clipped from the fld ?  By clipped I mean not displayed.

Tnx, Bob...
--
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