Re: Test

[Eric Chatonet]

The same for me and all of us I assume.
Seems to be fixed now.

Le 28 juin 05 à 08:22, Mark Wieder a écrit :


Is anyone else having trouble posting to the list? Ever since the
server migration it takes me two or three tries to get a message
posted. I keep getting "554: relaying denied" messages.



Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Re: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object

[Mark Wieder]

Sivakatirswami-

Monday, June 27, 2005, 6:31:36 PM, you wrote:

S> drive. Point: these kinds of users are very easily confused and will
S> just "stop in their tracks" if things don't seem obvious.

Yes. As should we all, I think. If things are ambiguous it's time to
stop and take stock.

S> How about this (using Thomas's idea to just re-write the question...) :

S> Answer "Was your last transcript complete and successfully uploaded?"

S> with "Yes" or "No"

Much better. It's a single question now and presents the user with a
simple yes-or-no branching point. It's clear that if the last session
was complete then it doesn't matter if the buffer is cleared, and I
would assume from this that pressing "No" would leave things as they
are. As a user of your system I don't really care if the header is
cleared behind the scenes or not - all I'm concerned with is whether
or not I've completed the last edit.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: returnInField doesn't work

[Friedrich F. Grohmann]

Kenji, Stephen and Ron,

Thanks for all your input and suggestions. As a matter of fact, I tried 
things like "find string the text of me" and "find words the text of me" 
before, to no avail. As I mentioned in my first message, even the beep 
command didn't work with returnInField, so something more than just 
details of search operations must have been involved.

Anyway, I created a new field with the same specifications as the 
previous search field and, lo and behold, it's not only happily beeping 
but "find string me" works, too! That's most encouraging. The strange 
thing is that both fields, the troublesome and the new one, are 
practically identical, apart from their position and slightly different 
size. I checked the object inspector and didn't find any factor which 
could explain the discrepancy in behaviour. Pretty mindboggling.

Again, thanks for your kind help.

Fritz
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Fwd: Tiger and HC

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi all,

Here is a mail that I received from Chris: it can interest all of  
them who want to run HC with Tiger but, unfortunately, don't have two  
drives.


Début du message réexpédié :


I posted this about three weeks ago but the recent
round of questions suggests that it would be good to
cover again.

HC and Reports work find under Tiger if you put the HC
app on a non startup partition. Since most of us don't
have a spare patition sitting around, the best thing
to do is to setup a virtual disk.

It turns out that the OSX Disk Utility makes this
quite easy. Open it up and click the icon titled New
Image. Pick a size that will hold your HC folder
contents and make sure it is of the read/write type.
Click create and you will get two things 1) a .DMG
file in the location you specified and 2) the virtual
disk mounted to your desktop. What is very surprising
to me is that from this point forward, OSX will keep
the two synchronized.

Put your HC folder contents over there and launch your
app. It should work well aside from any path specific
stuff that broke by changing the location of HC.

Now drag the virtual disk to the trash. Once it is
gone, double-click on your DMG file and the virutal
disk will reappear and voila everything you just
trashed should be there.

Bonus, you can drag the HC app to your dock and then
trash the virtual disk and your dock icon will still
work. It will remount the virtual disk and launch HC
without question.

Note that only the HC app, and therfore Home, have to
be on the virtual disk. You can put all your other
stacks wherever you like.



Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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[bug reason found] Re: Failing building Standalone on MacOSX 10.3.9 and Tiger 10.4.1

[Joel Guillod]

Thanks all folks for the advices.

I have now been able to build a standalone by commenting the  
"savingStandalone" in the main stack. In the IDE this handler works  
properly without error but when executed by the standalone builder it  
unexpected quits Rev. I am going to update the bug in this direction.

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Re: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL!

[Alejandro Tejada]

on Mon, 27 Jun 2005 
thierry wrote:

> Was quite funny when i saw your emails yesterday;
> because i've decided to play a bit with the 
> externals during last week-end.. and 
> after having download
> whatever was existing on the subject, plus  DevC++,
> plus lot of scans on this list... 
> i did struggle at the same time as you on the
> same subject.

i'm glad to read that many developers
have a real interest in developing
their own externals, for Rev. :-)

> How are you doing with this beast :-)

i have installed DevC++ and LCC compilers,
but all this experimentation is paused, 
because i have to finish grading student's 
final projects for my classes.

> Just now, i've been able to compile and link one
> external.
> If you so desire i can send you the makefile i've
> made for this
> ( i'm using the Gnu make )

This is great news! :-)

Could you post the exact steps (like Alex Tweedly)
to configure the compiler, for this dll? 

Could you post all the files (compressed) in a 
website of your own?

If not, you could send them to me and with
your permission, i'll post them (for download)
in my geocities site. :-)

Best regards,

al


Visit my site:
http://www.geocities.com/capellan2000/



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Re: Sucess compiling Alex Tweedly DLL!

[thierry]

Ok, i'll send you a HowTo explaining how i did manage,
with all the details for the C compiler and linkers... which was
the essentials information i didn't have, or partly

HTH, thierry


Just now, i've been able to compile and link one
external.
If you so desire i can send you the makefile i've
made for this
( i'm using the Gnu make )
   



This is great news! :-)

Could you post the exact steps (like Alex Tweedly)
to configure the compiler, for this dll? 

Could you post all the files (compressed) in a 
website of your own?


If not, you could send them to me and with
your permission, i'll post them (for download)
in my geocities site. :-)

Best regards, al
 


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Re: "repeat for each" in reverse order ?

[Robert Brenstein]

On Jun 27, 2005, at 1:57 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote:


  repeat for each element x in y descending


Now, is that with keys in descending order or elements in descending order?

Dar


Sorry, Dar, I used element in the loose sense and really meant chunk 
types: char, word, item, line.


When it comes to the 'each element' form, you are right that it is 
ambiguous at first glance, but would seem reasonable that sorting 
applies to the elements themselves since keys are not explicitly 
entering the picture. To get sorting on keys we would need to say


  repeat for each line tKey in the keys of myArray ascending

While we can do sorting explicitly with the sort command, I like the 
idea of having ascending and descending options as a new feature. It 
would combine two steps into a single engine process without a need 
to shuffle sorted results back and forth between engine and our 
program.


Probably, to make it more complete, we would need to include numeric 
and international as options similarly as the sort itself has them.


Now, this has, of course, drifted away from the original request. For 
that one, the syntax could be something like


  repeat for each foo in foofoo down

No sorting involved, simple reversal of direction. Down is the 
closest of the existing keywords for me and already used in another 
form of repeat. And the other poster convinced me that even though it 
would be slower then forwards, it would still likely has enough speed 
benefit.


Robert

PS If this needs to be discussed further, may be we should move it to 
the improve-list. If anyone is filing it in bugzilla, let us know the 
number.

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Re: Test

[Jon]

Mark:

Me, too!

Jon


Mark Wieder wrote:


Scott-

Monday, June 27, 2005, 9:41:04 PM, you wrote:

SR> Is this coming through?

Is anyone else having trouble posting to the list? Ever since the
server migration it takes me two or three tries to get a message
posted. I keep getting "554: relaying denied" messages.

 


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Re: "repeat for each" in reverse order ?

[Robert Brenstein]

When it comes to the 'each element' form, you are right that it is 
ambiguous at first glance, but would seem reasonable that sorting 
applies to the elements themselves since keys are not explicitly 
entering the picture. To get sorting on keys we would need to say


  repeat for each line tKey in the keys of myArray ascending



Oops. My thinking went a bit astray. What you are talking about is more like

  repeat for each element foo of fooArray ascending by key of each

Robert
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Re: compileIt for revolution?

[Jerry Daniels]

Maybe there was one better than Mark's!



On Jun 24, 2005, at 2:30 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Jerry Daniels wrote:
I thought Tom Pittman did a very good job of maintaining the purity 
of HyperTalk when he did CompileIt! Any future efforts could stand on 
his shoulders in that regard.


Just get an interface more like Mark Hanrek's please. :)

So much faster, so much simpler

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Tiger breaks hyperCard?

[Todd Higgins]

This is true.  New machines do not ship with the Classic System  
Folder.  But If you have an existing Macintosh you can just copy the  
System Folder over.


Todd

On Jun 27, 2005, at 6:34 PM, Jim Hurley wrote:

I had heard, from a distance source, that a new Mac with Tiger  
installed will not necessarily include classic. Anybody know  
whether this is true?


Jim
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RE: returnInfield

[Lars Brehmer]

Friedrich

I faced the exact same thing when I set all my fields to unicode  
textFont, which Chinese obviously is. I am uncertain whether you can  
somehow use unicode in the simple returnInfield \  find handler,  
because at the same time I decided to put the text of all card fields  
into custom properties which are only displayed as text in the fields  
when the card is called up.  This led me to a far superior find  
system that marks cards that have the string in the customProps and  
then lists the results in a separate window with buttons that go to  
each card that contains the word, or string, and the label each  
button is the word or string I am looking for.  In my case, you can  
search for an English or an Estonian word, but I choose to have the  
result button labels be the Estonian text, but both are possible of  
course.  This involves using the uniEncode and uniDecode commands I  
got from the kind people from this list, and it is incredibly fast  
and efficient this way.  My project is for Estonian vocabulary -  
when, for example, I search for the English word "get," there are,  
for now, 8 matches (things like get dressed, get ready, get, get  
drunk, etc, so i have 8 buttons with 8 different Estonian labels,  
each one goes to the card in question.  I would be glad to show you  
the various scripts I made that allow this.  Contact me offline, if  
you'd like - I've been dying for the chance to really give something  
back, after gettting so much advice and help!


Lars

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RE: returnInfield

[Lars Brehmer]

Friedrich

I faced the exact same thing when I set all my fields to unicode  
textFont, which Chinese obviously is. I am uncertain whether you can  
somehow use unicode in the simple returnInfield \  find handler,  
because at the same time I decided to put the text of all card fields  
into custom properties which are only displayed as text in the fields  
when the card is called up.  This led me to a far superior find  
system that marks cards that have the string in the customProps and  
then lists the results in a separate window with buttons that go to  
each card that contains the word, or string, and the label each  
button is the word or string I am looking for.  In my case, you can  
search for an English or an Estonian word, but I choose to have the  
result button labels be the Estonian text, but both are possible of  
course.  This involves using the uniEncode and uniDecode commands I  
got from the kind people from this list, and it is incredibly fast  
and efficient this way.  My project is for Estonian vocabulary -  
when, for example, I search for the English word "get," there are,  
for now, 8 matches (things like get dressed, get ready, get, get  
drunk, etc, so i have 8 buttons with 8 different Estonian labels,  
each one goes to the card in question.  I would be glad to show you  
the various scripts I made that allow this.  Contact me offline, if  
you'd like - I've been dying for the chance to really give something  
back, after gettting so much advice and help!


Lars
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Revolution home page??

[Ralph R. Forehand]

What's happening??? I've unable to open the Revolution Home Page or Scripting 
Conference page the last couple days!! I keep getting "Connection refused" 
message.

Anyone else having the same problem and/or know what the problem is??

Thanks in Advance and TAKE CARE,
Ralph
\

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Re: Revolution home page??

[rev]

Quoting "Ralph R. Forehand" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> What's happening??? I've unable to open the Revolution Home Page or Scripting
> Conference page the last couple days!! I keep getting "Connection refused"
> message.
>
> Anyone else having the same problem and/or know what the problem is??

I cant get access but I've only used my laptop and thought it was a work
firewall. Obviously it is global (excuse the pun). I'm using rev 2.5

Cheers
Bob
>
> Thanks in Advance and TAKE CARE,
> Ralph
> \
>
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Re: Revolution home page??

[Ralph R. Forehand]

Problem gone!! I'm finally getting the Revolution home page again.

Ralph
---
>Quoting "Ralph R. Forehand" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > What's happening??? I've unable to open the Revolution Home Page or 
> > Scripting
> > Conference page the last couple days!! I keep getting "Connection refused"
> > message.
> >
> > Anyone else having the same problem and/or know what the problem is??
>
>I cant get access but I've only used my laptop and thought it was a work
>firewall. Obviously it is global (excuse the pun). I'm using rev 2.5
>
>Cheers
>Bob
> >
> > Thanks in Advance and TAKE CARE,
> > Ralph
> > \
> >
> > ___
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Re: images

[Jim Hurley]

Message: 14
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:22:11 -0400
From: Jon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: images
To: How to use Revolution 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Jim:

Thanks so much for the handler, but 1) it would not compile as written,
and 2) after I managed to get it to compile (probably by butchering it),
it did nothing useful.  I tried words like "image" and "icon" and only
managed to get a number written into a file.

If you had the time, I would appreciate it if you could make the code
work.  After an hour or so of fiddling, I know I can't.  Sigh.


Jon,

Below I have copied and pasted the script I use for exporting images. 
It compiles and it has the advantage of putting the  file where I 
want it--as opposed to putting everything in the RR application file:


on mouseUP
  ask  "What image to save?"
  if it is empty then exit mouseUp
  put it into theImageToSave
  ask file "Give it what file name?"
  if it is empty then exit mouseUp
  put it into fileName
  if it is not empty then
put "binFile:"&fileName into theLongFileName
  else
exit mouseUp
  end if
  put image theImageToSave into url theLongFileName
end mouseUP

Be sure you respond exactly to the request for the image name.



All I'm trying to do is to move Scott's shiny numbered balls [sic] into
the current set of code I'm running for the Nine Ball stack.  Should be
simple, right?


Reminds me of a Prof. of physics who was doing a demonstration to 
illustrate the dynamics of shperical opjects. He began: "I have three 
balls," which brought a few giggles, but he brought the room down 
when he followed with: "And one of them's green."


Jim
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Re: "repeat for each" in reverse order ?

[Dennis Brown]

What I would like to see is a way to access the next or previous  
"element" in a list independent of the repeat structure.  We have  
something similar in the offset function --offset 
(findString,searchString,skipChars).  The key is to have a concept  
for a pointer of sorts.  The pointer in the offset function is the  
skipChars parameter.  You could just about simulate this capability  
using the offset function (not tested):


global gStringName,gStringNamePtr
function nextItemStringName --don't want to pass the actual strings
get offset(itemDel(), gStringName, gStringNamePtr)
if it = 0 then --delimiter not found, must be end of string
return char gStringNamePtr to -1 of gStringName --last item  
in the string, or empty

else
return char gStringNamePtr to gStringNamePtr +it-1 of  
gStringName --grab the next item
put it+1 into gStringNamePtr --advance the pointer to after  
the delimiter

end if
end nextItemStringName

Of course this way of doing it is not so general, a bit awkward, and  
the function calls would kill a lot of the potential speed.  That is  
why a built-in function would be much better.  Perhaps a syntax  
something like this:


nextItem(stringName,charOffsetVar)

The variable name specified for the charOffsetVar would have the  
pointer that gets modified.


You could also make it a command something like:

nextThing stringName with charOffsetVar by item

Having sequential access methods like this would allow a much greater  
freedom to process one or more lists at the same time without  
suffering the usual speed penalties.


Dennis

On Jun 28, 2005, at 8:08 AM, Robert Brenstein wrote:

When it comes to the 'each element' form, you are right that it is  
ambiguous at first glance, but would seem reasonable that sorting  
applies to the elements themselves since keys are not explicitly  
entering the picture. To get sorting on keys we would need to say


  repeat for each line tKey in the keys of myArray ascending




Oops. My thinking went a bit astray. What you are talking about is  
more like


  repeat for each element foo of fooArray ascending by key of each

Robert
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Re: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling

[Jim Hurley]

Message: 7
Date: Mon, 27 Jun 2005 19:49:35 -0700
From: Mark Wieder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: ANN Daily Crytoquote--my misspelling
To: How to use Revolution 
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Marielle-

Thursday, June 23, 2005, 3:08:45 AM, you wrote:

ML> If you use the url below, you will directly get to see the list 
of words which

ML> have a frequency of 10 or more.

ML> 
http://lexicall.org/repository/results.php?mtd_file=data%2F2_words%2Fenglish%2Fdb_mrc.mtd&flds%5B1%5D=WORD&minvals%5B5%5D=10&submit=Submit


ML> Make you enter it as a continuous line in your browser, the 500 
words limit has
ML> been removed and will remain so for a week, so you will see the 
full list on

ML> your screen. Be patient - 10262 words.

Yes, but a lot of duplicates. If you filter out the dupes you end up
with 5066 words.

on RemoveDuplicates pWordList
  local tFileName
  local tWordList
  local aWords

  repeat for each line tLine in pWordList
put "x" into aWords[tLine]
  end repeat

  put the keys of aWords into tWordList

  sort tWordList
  return tWordList
end RemoveDuplicates

--
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]


Mark,

Marielle word list turned out  to be just what I needed. All the 
right words and no more. Reminds me of Einstein's exhortation: "Make 
things as simple as possible, but not simpler."


I used to  following to get rid of the duplicates.

On RemoveDuplicates
put field "theDictionary" into tList
put "" into tPrevious
repeat for each line tLine in tList
  if tLine <> tPrevious then put tLine & cr after results
  put tLine into tPrevious
end repeat
put results into field "duplicatesEliminatedDictionary"
end RemoveDuplicates

Your's is probably faster and I have yet to absorb RR's more powerful 
implementation of arrays--I'm stuck back in FORTRAN.


Jim

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Re: Revolution home page??

[rev]

Quoting "Ralph R. Forehand" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> Problem gone!! I'm finally getting the Revolution home page again.

Ahh good, because I misread your post and thought you meant revonline via the
IDE.

Cheers
bob
>
> Ralph
> ---
> >Quoting "Ralph R. Forehand" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> >
> > > What's happening??? I've unable to open the Revolution Home Page or
> Scripting
> > > Conference page the last couple days!! I keep getting "Connection
> refused"
> > > message.
> > >
> > > Anyone else having the same problem and/or know what the problem is??
> >
> >I cant get access but I've only used my laptop and thought it was a work
> >firewall. Obviously it is global (excuse the pun). I'm using rev 2.5
> >
> >Cheers
> >Bob
> > >
> > > Thanks in Advance and TAKE CARE,
> > > Ralph
> > > \
> > >
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Re: Tiger breaks hyperCard?

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi Todd and Jim,

To be more precise, I was told that you can't install an OS 9.2.2  
system folder on any partition where Tiger (or any OS X system) is  
already installed.
It does not work: OS 9 must be installed first or installed on  
another disk or partition...
At the very worst you have to backup, erase your Tiger disk, make an  
OS 9  clean install (just copying an existing system folder is  
risky :-) and a Tiger clean install on top :-(
Then when you see the hard disk prices at the moment, it might be a  
better solution to buy an external firewire one...


Le 28 juin 05 à 01:22, Todd Higgins a écrit :


This is true.  New machines do not ship with the Classic System  
Folder.  But If you have an existing Macintosh you can just copy  
the System Folder over.


Todd

On Jun 27, 2005, at 6:34 PM, Jim Hurley wrote:


I had heard, from a distance source, that a new Mac with Tiger  
installed will not necessarily include classic. Anybody know  
whether this is true?




Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Re: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object

[Mark Wieder]

Richard-

Monday, June 27, 2005, 11:15:23 PM, you wrote:

RG> Do you can to clear the header?

I figured you were maybe speaking a patois here, so I tried various
translations in Google:

English to German and back again:
Do you preserve, in order to delete the heading?

English to Spanish and back again:
You can to clear the head?

English to French and back again:
Do you put out of box to release the heading?

English to Italian and back again:
Inscatolate in order to eliminate the heading?

English to Portuguese and back again:
You tin to cancel the heading?

English to French to German to English:
Do you place in crate to set the title free?

The last seems very zen, and I'm sure it's the key to understanding
this conundrum. I shall meditate on this.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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koan: how do uninstallers uninstall themselves?

[Richard Gaskin]

When an uninstaller (such as those commonly included with Win 
installations made with InstallShield or WiseInstall) run, it can copy 
itself to the user's Temp folder and run from there, so that it can do a 
complete deletion of the items in the application's folder.


But can I delete it from the Temp folder when it's done?

In my readings 'round the Net it seems acceptable to just leave the old 
uninstaller in the Temp folder until the next time the user cleans that 
folder out, but that doesn't feel proper to me.


Is there a way for an app to delete itself?  Or to use some delayed 
mechanism for doing so that doesn't require modifying any system files?


TIA -

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object

[Richard Gaskin]

Mark Wieder wrote:

Richard-

Monday, June 27, 2005, 11:15:23 PM, you wrote:

RG> Do you can to clear the header?

I figured you were maybe speaking a patois here, so I tried various
translations in Google:

English to German and back again:
Do you preserve, in order to delete the heading?

English to Spanish and back again:
You can to clear the head?

English to French and back again:
Do you put out of box to release the heading?

English to Italian and back again:
Inscatolate in order to eliminate the heading?

English to Portuguese and back again:
You tin to cancel the heading?

English to French to German to English:
Do you place in crate to set the title free?

The last seems very zen, and I'm sure it's the key to understanding
this conundrum. I shall meditate on this.


It's a new dialect called Sleep Deprivation.  It's easy to become a 
native speaker:  just go without sleep for two days straight and you'll 
be speaking it like it was your native tongue. :)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: koan: how do uninstallers uninstall themselves?

[Phil Davis]

On Windows, hmmm... maybe the uninstaller could create a 'delete file 
xyz' .bat file that runs shortly after the uninstaller closes? But 
offhand I don't know how to schedule a task on Windows.


HTH -
Phil Davis


Richard Gaskin wrote:


When an uninstaller (such as those commonly included with Win 
installations made with InstallShield or WiseInstall) run, it can copy 
itself to the user's Temp folder and run from there, so that it can do a 
complete deletion of the items in the application's folder.


But can I delete it from the Temp folder when it's done?

In my readings 'round the Net it seems acceptable to just leave the old 
uninstaller in the Temp folder until the next time the user cleans that 
folder out, but that doesn't feel proper to me.


Is there a way for an app to delete itself?  Or to use some delayed 
mechanism for doing so that doesn't require modifying any system files?


TIA -


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Re: Tiger breaks hyperCard?

[Dan Shafer]

I can't say what the general case might be, but I *can* report that I  
merely copied an old System Folder from a Classic install on OS X  
10.3 to my Tiger drive after installation and it seems to work fine.  
I don't use it often and I surely don't push it around much, but it  
hasn't crashed, broken, complained or otherwise caused a fuss.



On Jun 28, 2005, at 8:46 AM, Eric Chatonet wrote:


Hi Todd and Jim,

To be more precise, I was told that you can't install an OS 9.2.2  
system folder on any partition where Tiger (or any OS X system) is  
already installed.
It does not work: OS 9 must be installed first or installed on  
another disk or partition...
At the very worst you have to backup, erase your Tiger disk, make  
an OS 9  clean install (just copying an existing system folder is  
risky :-) and a Tiger clean install on top :-(
Then when you see the hard disk prices at the moment, it might be a  
better solution to buy an external firewire one...


Le 28 juin 05 à 01:22, Todd Higgins a écrit :



This is true.  New machines do not ship with the Classic System  
Folder.  But If you have an existing Macintosh you can just copy  
the System Folder over.


Todd

On Jun 27, 2005, at 6:34 PM, Jim Hurley wrote:



I had heard, from a distance source, that a new Mac with Tiger  
installed will not necessarily include classic. Anybody know  
whether this is true?





Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


~~
Dan Shafer, Revolution Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"
From http://www.shafermedia.com/revolutionbooks.html




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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Bob Warren]

Dear Paul,

Thanks for your feedback. The problem with describing a set of very simple
manual operations is that when you write the details down, it seems very
complicated. We have all had the experience of trying to learn how to
operate a new VCR for example using the manual! In fact, my suggestion has
absolutely nothing to do with bunches of obscure commands or dubious
shortcuts, and you seem to have missed the point of the description
completely. It is simply a description of how the editor could be
programmed internally, and for anyone who is interested it would be better
to see it at work in VB6.

But now I have the impression that my description was so poor that it was
open to misinterpretation, so if you don't mind I'll post this e-mail to the
List so that others can be a bit clearer on what I was trying to suggest.

Regards,
Bob Warren


- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor


Yes, why complicate the script editor with a bunch of obscure commands
and dubious "shortcuts"?

 -Original Message-
 From: Bob Warren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 02:38:26 -0300
 Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

  Sorry Paul, perhaps I am a bit slow (old age), but could you explain
what you meant a little more fully?

 Regards,
 Bob
 - Original Message -
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 10:51 PM
 Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor


  Well, this would certainly get people to read the manual before
attempting to use the editor!
 Paul Looney






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SQLite external

[Hershel Fisch]

Hi all, can anybody point me to the sqlite external site?
Hershel Fisch

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Re: Tiger breaks hyperCard?

[Eric Chatonet]

Hi Dan,

I did not try it myself.
This assertion came from authorised Apple Computer France guys I know  
since many years.

So, they may be wrong or too careful :-)

Le 28 juin 05 à 18:52, Dan Shafer a écrit :

I can't say what the general case might be, but I *can* report that  
I merely copied an old System Folder from a Classic install on OS X  
10.3 to my Tiger drive after installation and it seems to work  
fine. I don't use it often and I surely don't push it around much,  
but it hasn't crashed, broken, complained or otherwise caused a fuss.


Best Regards from Paris,

Eric Chatonet.

So Smart Software

For institutions, companies and associations
Built-to-order applications: management, multimedia, internet, etc.
Windows, Mac OS and Linux... With the French touch

Free plugins and tutorials on my website

Web sitehttp://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email[EMAIL PROTECTED]/
Phone33 (0)1 43 31 77 62
Mobile33 (0)6 20 74 50 86


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Re: "repeat for each" in reverse order ?

[Dar Scott]

On Jun 28, 2005, at 12:20 AM, jbv wrote:


So here's a short reminder of what I had originally in
mind : I only wanted to know if there was a way to
benefit the speed of "repeat for each item i in myVar"
(or "each line" or "each char"...) while reading items
in reverse order...


Looks like I took the word "element" too literally.

Note that with sort, you can supply the sorting expression.  This 
allows a wide range of sorting that you cannot get with the addition of 
a few keywords to repeat.  Once you sort, then you can repeat with the 
fastest method.


Dar

--
**
DSC (Dar Scott Consulting & Dar's Lab)
http://www.swcp.com/dsc/
Programming and software
**

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Re: Confirm Long File Name Bug in Player Object

[Dar Scott]

Since this seems to have changed, can we get a new subject on this?  -- 
Dar


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called stack does not come to top in standalone

[Emilio Gagliardi]

Greetings runrev gurusIt seems I'm finding lots of little  
*nuances* lately and I appreciate your patience with my emails.


I've been using the following code to open a stack from within a  
another stack:

go to stack /substack as topLevel

and the code has worked as expected in development.  Namely, the  
parent "window" is open and visible and when I click a button that  
calls the above code, a second window opens on top of the parent,  
which contains the substack.


It was working weeks ago sadly and now I tried to put it into the  
production environment and the behavior didn't work.  Furthermore,  
changing the mode (modal,toplevel,etc.) and decorations does not seem  
to make any difference.  That is in standalone mode, the substack is  
called, (I know this b/c the backdrop changes) but does not come to  
the top as it did in development, rather it opens below the parent  
window.  So, if the parent has a title bar I can drag it out of the  
way and reveal the substack.


Can anyone point me in the direction of how to force a stack to the  
top or why in standalone this is happening?


In a related vein, I tried setting the style of the substack to modal 
(go to stack /substack as modal), thinking it was ideal for forcing  
the user to complete the task on screen b4 moving on. However, when i  
did that, my dynamically generated buttons didn't appear!  This goes  
back to a previous problem I addressed in these forums which I solved  
by copying a hidden button and then pasting it.  For some reason,  
copy&paste does not seem to work in modal mode.


Cheers and thank you for your help.

Emilio
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Re: koan: how do uninstallers uninstall themselves?

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, Richard Gaskin  wrote:

> In my readings 'round the Net it seems acceptable to just leave the old
> uninstaller in the Temp folder until the next time the user cleans that
> folder out, but that doesn't feel proper to me.
> 
> Is there a way for an app to delete itself?  Or to use some delayed
> mechanism for doing so that doesn't require modifying any system files?

I could be wrong but I seem to recall reading the Temp folder is
automatically emptied at certain times, presumably when the number of files
or filesize reaches a certain threshold.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design
-
E: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
W: http://www.tactilemedia.com

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[ANN] Property List Table version 4.1

[Dennis Brown]

All,

Properties of Objects Version 4.1 is a quick reference guide for both  
showing which built-in properties are returned by the "properties"  
property for each type of object and quickly indexing into the  
Revolution Transcript Dictionary stack to display the definitions.   
You can download it from my RevOnline user area (see3d).  It was  
pointed out to me that it should contain a help file, so now it has one.


V4.1 now includes an about and help screen.

I should also point out the the "properties" property does not  
include every possible property for an object, just the important  
ones that are required to define the object (i.e., to make a clone).   
It does not include properties that are extracted or covered other  
properties (e.g., top is extracted from rectangle).  I have toyed  
with the possibility of making a Properties of Transcript stack that  
includes every property in the dictionary including globals.  It is  
just a matter of creating the data for the custom property in the  
stack, but the list of properties is so large that without a way to  
organize them in meaningful groups, I'm afraid the utility of this  
simple stack would be lost.  Doing all that would be a much larger  
undertaking.  However, Jerry Daniels is doing such great things with  
his Gadget series of tools, that I am inclined to see how far he  
takes these ideas for Constellation before doing more on them myself.


Dennis
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Re: Tiger breaks hyperCard?

[Richard Gaskin]

Eric Chatonet wrote:

This assertion came from authorised Apple Computer France guys


A little industry humor:


   Q: What's the difference between a used car salesman
  and a computer salesman?

   A: The car salesman knows when he's lying.

:)

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: SQLite external

[Chipp Walters]

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/altSQLiteCover/default.htm

Hi Hershel,

FYI, The sale's supposed to be over, but I'll let it go one more day. 
It's off tomorrow.


best,

Chipp

Hershel Fisch wrote:

Hi all, can anybody point me to the sqlite external site?
Hershel Fisch

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Bob Warren]

Dear All,

My original e-mail suggesting how the Rev editor could be reviewed is
obviously open to misinterpretation, so I think a summary of a few points
would help.

1. Obviously, debugging the existing Rev editor is important.
It gets confused far too often.

2. It could well be simplified by not attempting to analyse the content of
what is being typed (with the exception of the beginning and end of a new
handler).

3. Though I am no great fan of Microsoft, their VB6 editor is good enough to
be imitated, and it works perfectly.

4. The main functioning of the VB6 editor is that lines created above or
below an existing line adopt the same indentation initially. Such
indentation can be changed immediately without any trouble.

The keys mentioned in my previous e-mail simply refer to the common keys
used for navigation in any text editor.
I think I made the mistake of trying to provide a summary spec for a
VB6-type editor in Rev instead of just saying, "Go and look at VB6 and do
something like that".






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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Chipp Walters]

Hi Bob,

Thanks for your thoughts. As one who used to use the VBscript editor, I 
can offer these observations:


1) Ever since HyperCard first was released, the script editor 
'auto-formatted' the scripts. Users are used to this. In fact, when I 
first started using VBscript, I saw where the code editor didn't do 
this. I know one can manually do it, but it's a lot easier for most of 
us to be able to check our repeat/if then/switch statement by just 
looking to see if they are properly indented. Removing auto-formatting 
is probably something neither RR nor most of the users want. Though it 
may be possible to 'turn it off.'


2) I agree, there are some 'issues' with the way things are 'live 
formatted', but a quick touch of the 'tab' key should autoformat the 
code you're working on. Most of us use the tabkey religiously to help 
formatting.


3) Jerry Daniels script editor 'Constellation' www.daniels-mara.com has 
many of the features you may be looking for. You may contact him 
directly to find out.


best,

Chipp

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Jon]

I agree with Bob.  The editor that comes with Delphi has worked 
correctly for years and years, and functions more or less as he 
described the VB editor to work.  There is no reason why we should have 
to work with an editor with the current set of bugs.


Jon


Bob Warren wrote:


Dear Paul,

Thanks for your feedback. The problem with describing a set of very simple
manual operations is that when you write the details down, it seems very
complicated. We have all had the experience of trying to learn how to
operate a new VCR for example using the manual! In fact, my suggestion has
absolutely nothing to do with bunches of obscure commands or dubious
shortcuts, and you seem to have missed the point of the description
completely. It is simply a description of how the editor could be
programmed internally, and for anyone who is interested it would be better
to see it at work in VB6.

But now I have the impression that my description was so poor that it was
open to misinterpretation, so if you don't mind I'll post this e-mail to the
List so that others can be a bit clearer on what I was trying to suggest.

Regards,
Bob Warren


- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 11:30 AM
Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor


Yes, why complicate the script editor with a bunch of obscure commands
and dubious "shortcuts"?

-Original Message-
From: Bob Warren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tue, 28 Jun 2005 02:38:26 -0300
Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

 Sorry Paul, perhaps I am a bit slow (old age), but could you explain
what you meant a little more fully?

Regards,
Bob
- Original Message -
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, June 27, 2005 10:51 PM
Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor


 Well, this would certainly get people to read the manual before
attempting to use the editor!
Paul Looney






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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[SimPLsol]

Jon,
 There are actually two issues here:
1. I agree that there are significant bugs in the debugger/script 
editor/variable watcher; these should be fixed.
2. I disagree with changes to the interface of the script editor. It works 
quickly and intuitively.
Paul Looney
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Re: Note to self: ALWAYS apply script changes

[Howard Bornstein]

On 6/27/05, Ron Noice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I've run into a problem in 2.6 that caused me to lose everything since the=
>  previous save. Twice! Which just goes to show ya -- it takes repetition to=
>  teach an old dog new tricks. Very likely I'm the only twit who would=
>  actually follow the sequence of events I'll outline here, but just in case=
>  someone else does, don't! The end result is that I get myself into a=
>  position where I try to Save but instead, Rev immediately quits without=
>  saving anything. Don't know if this can be classed as a bug or just as=
>  something stupid not to do. But the problem can be reproduced with the=
>  following clever steps (BTW, I'm using Windows XP - which should have been=
>  punishment enough - and Rev 2.6):

Ron,

Since you've found a repeatable recipe, it would be a good idea to
Bugzilla this.

-- 
Regards,

Howard Bornstein
---
www.designeq.com
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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Jon]

Chipp:

See comments embedded below

Chipp Walters wrote:


Hi Bob,

Thanks for your thoughts. As one who used to use the VBscript editor, 
I can offer these observations:


1) Ever since HyperCard first was released, the script editor 
'auto-formatted' the scripts. Users are used to this. In fact, when I 
first started using VBscript, I saw where the code editor didn't do 
this. I know one can manually do it, but it's a lot easier for most of 
us to be able to check our repeat/if then/switch statement by just 
looking to see if they are properly indented. Removing auto-formatting 
is probably something neither RR nor most of the users want. Though it 
may be possible to 'turn it off.'



I would LOVE it if the editor auto-formatted, but it does not.  It makes 
horrid mistakes, all of the time.  Try to copy a line, and you 
automatically get part of the next line.  You have to manually reformat 
any time you do an edit.  Unless you are using a different editor than I 
am, I can see NO WAY you would be satisfied with the current auto-indent 
behavior.


2) I agree, there are some 'issues' with the way things are 'live 
formatted', but a quick touch of the 'tab' key should autoformat the 
code you're working on. Most of us use the tabkey religiously to help 
formatting.



Ahah!  The Tab key.  Who would have thought of trying that?!?  
ARRRh.  Too bad you've not used the VB and Delphi editors: You can 
have the best of both worlds if the editor behaved better in manual 
mode, and still allowed you to auto-format at the push of a key.


3) Jerry Daniels script editor 'Constellation' www.daniels-mara.com 
has many of the features you may be looking for. You may contact him 
directly to find out.



While we're editor bashing, I sure wish there was a way to do searches 
using function keys.  Using the mouse all of the time is hugely slower 
than using other program development editors under Windows

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Jon]

Paul:

Total disagreement.  The manual auto-indent features (that work while 
entering text, not the feature that re-formats an entire handler) are 
horribly buggy, when compared with the VB and Delphi editors.  The UI 
for the editor does not need to change: it can remain "quick and 
intuitive".  It just has to be FIXED so that it actually WORKS.


Jon


[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Jon,
There are actually two issues here:
1. I agree that there are significant bugs in the debugger/script 
editor/variable watcher; these should be fixed.
2. I disagree with changes to the interface of the script editor. It works 
quickly and intuitively.

Paul Looney
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File forward/ back\ slashes

[Jim Bufalini]

This is a resend... Don't think the first one went through.

Maybe this is a known issue, but just in case...

On WinXP, Rev 2.51, if you do an "if there is a file
c:/somedirectory/somefile then..." it returns false, even if the file does
exist. Change it to "if there is a file c:\somedirectory\somefile then..."
you get a correct result.

Yet, it appears, all the other file commands such as rename file, delete
file, etc. expect and work with the forward slash notation.

Jim
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Large stack size - One cause?

[Jim Bufalini]

This is a resend... I don't think the first one went through.

I haven't thoroughly tested this yet, but it appears that, if from your main
stack, you "go to" another main stack on disk and delete cards on the stack
you opened, then copy the same cards back, then save and close, the file
size of the newly opened/closed stack increases significantly. Do this many
times, and you end up with a huge stack file!

Jim
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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Bob Warren]

Dear Chipp,

When I made my suggestion, I asked myself a question: "What's better, a
simple system that is reliable or a more complex system that often fails?"
Just try the example I cited in my first e-mail:

1) Type IFTHEN [enter]
2) Type ENTER again to make a blank line
3) Type END IF

e.g.

If myVar = 99 then

End if

...and then try to insert the middle of the sandwich to make it complete:

If myVar = 99 then
Do something
End if

There are many other examples like this. Of course, I have no objection in
relation to the principle of auto-formatting, just the practice! I think
that what is involved here is the old story that those who have used Rev for
a long time have unconsciously learned to avoid its potholes. Less
experienced users suffer more. Why shouldn't I be able to do an "if-then" as
I described above? I didn't have any trouble at all doing it in the very
editor I am using to write this e-mail! You say, "...but a quick touch of
the 'tab' key should autoformat the code you're working on". I agree that it
should, but the fact is that it often doesn't, or at least not correctly.

Another kind soul on the List recommended 'Constellation' to me last night
and I have already acquired it. It does not suffer many of the problems that
the Rev editor suffers. On the other hand, the question of the Rev script
editor is the same as the question of the whole IDE and the Transcript
language: I love it all. IF ONLY THEY WOULD DEBUG THE DAMN THING!!!

In a certain psychological theory related to motivation at work, money is
not described as "motivating". Instead, it is defined as a "hygiene factor".
What this means is that other aspects of the job are required to provide
motivation, but that money, if insufficient, can be DEmotivating. I see an
exact parallel here to the relationship between Rev's "new features" and its
bugs. New features (such as the recently-launched "Tiger") may be motivating
to some, but hardly to Windows users (a potential majority). One top of
that, Windows users do not have sufficient "hygiene" in their situation in
the form of debugging which in the opinion of all (except the powers that
be) is totally inadequate. For example, as I complained recently to the
"powers", how is it possible that something as fundamental and crucial as
the declaration of Global variables only half works and has always been the
same? It is beyond my comprehension.



- Original Message -
From: "Chipp Walters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Bob Warren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "How to use Revolution"

Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 3:55 PM
Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor


> Hi Bob,
>
> Thanks for your thoughts. As one who used to use the VBscript editor, I
> can offer these observations:
>
> 1) Ever since HyperCard first was released, the script editor
> 'auto-formatted' the scripts. Users are used to this. In fact, when I
> first started using VBscript, I saw where the code editor didn't do
> this. I know one can manually do it, but it's a lot easier for most of
> us to be able to check our repeat/if then/switch statement by just
> looking to see if they are properly indented. Removing auto-formatting
> is probably something neither RR nor most of the users want. Though it
> may be possible to 'turn it off.'
>
> 2) I agree, there are some 'issues' with the way things are 'live
> formatted', but a quick touch of the 'tab' key should autoformat the
> code you're working on. Most of us use the tabkey religiously to help
> formatting.
>
> 3) Jerry Daniels script editor 'Constellation' www.daniels-mara.com has
> many of the features you may be looking for. You may contact him
> directly to find out.
>
> best,
>
> Chipp
>
>
>


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Re: koan: how do uninstallers uninstall themselves?

[Richard Gaskin]

Scott Rossi wrote:

Recently, Richard Gaskin  wrote:



In my readings 'round the Net it seems acceptable to just leave the old
uninstaller in the Temp folder until the next time the user cleans that
folder out, but that doesn't feel proper to me.

Is there a way for an app to delete itself?  Or to use some delayed
mechanism for doing so that doesn't require modifying any system files?



I could be wrong but I seem to recall reading the Temp folder is
automatically emptied at certain times, presumably when the number of files
or filesize reaches a certain threshold.


Ah, that sounds logical.  I had read about some cases where Win would 
empty Temp, but never came across the rules for determining when that 
happens.  I've read enough cases where people's Temp folder got pretty 
big (500+mb), so I'm not sure if the threshold is automatically set, but 
I'll buy it for now.


All I need is a justification for writing my own installer.  I love 
WiseInstall but I need greater automation given the number of installers 
I make, and a Rev-based solution can let me use the same engine for the 
installer, the application, and the uninstaller, so the increase in 
download size would be trivial.


As long as it's considered acceptable to leave obsolete apps in Temp I'm 
quite happy to do so, and excited about the possibility for automating 
the second-to-last thing in my build process not currently automated.


Now on to the last one:  How can I script OS X's Disk Utility to 
automate making DMGs with custom backgrounds, window rects, etc.?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 __
 Rev tools and more: http://www.fourthworld.com/rev
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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[J. Landman Gay]

On 6/28/05 3:27 PM, Bob Warren wrote:


I think
that what is involved here is the old story that those who have used Rev for
a long time have unconsciously learned to avoid its potholes. Less
experienced users suffer more. Why shouldn't I be able to do an "if-then" as
I described above? I didn't have any trouble at all doing it in the very
editor I am using to write this e-mail! You say, "...but a quick touch of
the 'tab' key should autoformat the code you're working on". I agree that it
should, but the fact is that it often doesn't, or at least not correctly.


I suppose I'm one of those old hands who takes things for granted, but I 
don't know any xtalk editor that formats scripts differently than Rev, 
and actually, Rev does more auto-formatting than the others.


I am very used to unaligned scripts until I hit the tab key; that's been 
the standard in all xtalks for almost 20 years. Of course, I know that 
doesn't help newcomers who aren't used to it and I am not brushing off 
your comments, nor am I saying the current behavior is ideal; if Runtime 
can improve the editor to accomodate more users, of course they should. 
On the other hand, if RR were to change the current behavior very much 
I'd be lost. I have permanent muscle memory for the way it acts now.


I did just want to say, though, that I have never seen a problem once 
the tab key is hit. In the if/then example you gave, typing the tab key 
formatted the structure correctly (I just tried it.) My standard 
(ingrained) behavior is to do this:


Type: if myvar = 99 then
Type: two carriage returns
Type: end if
Type: up arrow (to get to the blank line
Type: tab

All formatted. Then I enter the middle section of the handler.

I have been looking at Constellation and I find it quite remarkable. I 
think it is a good alternative for those who want a change from the 
standard Rev editor. At least we have options. ;)


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: koan: how do uninstallers uninstall themselves?

[Trevor DeVore]

On Jun 28, 2005, at 1:50 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
Now on to the last one:  How can I script OS X's Disk Utility to 
automate making DMGs with custom backgrounds, window rects, etc.?


Perhaps FileStorm  could help 
you here.  I just browsed the dictionary for it and it seems pretty 
complete.  It does all sorts of fancy things with disk images.



--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Dennis Brown]

Jacqueline,

I have not seen the script editor mess up the formatting with this  
simple example, but it does mess up horribly in some situations.  I  
actually have to rewrite my scripts differently because it gets  
confused at times.


The main problem is when you have a situation like this:

if a then
if b then get c else get d
else
doSomethingElse
end if

It generates:

if a then
if b then get c else get d
else
doSomethingElse
end if

I am forced to rewrite my scripts to:

if a then
if b then
get c
else
get d
end if
else
doSomethingElse
end if

The Constellation editor gets it right.

Dennis

On Jun 28, 2005, at 4:53 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


On 6/28/05 3:27 PM, Bob Warren wrote:



I think
that what is involved here is the old story that those who have  
used Rev for

a long time have unconsciously learned to avoid its potholes. Less
experienced users suffer more. Why shouldn't I be able to do an  
"if-then" as
I described above? I didn't have any trouble at all doing it in  
the very
editor I am using to write this e-mail! You say, "...but a quick  
touch of
the 'tab' key should autoformat the code you're working on". I  
agree that it
should, but the fact is that it often doesn't, or at least not  
correctly.




I suppose I'm one of those old hands who takes things for granted,  
but I don't know any xtalk editor that formats scripts differently  
than Rev, and actually, Rev does more auto-formatting than the others.


I am very used to unaligned scripts until I hit the tab key; that's  
been the standard in all xtalks for almost 20 years. Of course, I  
know that doesn't help newcomers who aren't used to it and I am not  
brushing off your comments, nor am I saying the current behavior is  
ideal; if Runtime can improve the editor to accomodate more users,  
of course they should. On the other hand, if RR were to change the  
current behavior very much I'd be lost. I have permanent muscle  
memory for the way it acts now.


I did just want to say, though, that I have never seen a problem  
once the tab key is hit. In the if/then example you gave, typing  
the tab key formatted the structure correctly (I just tried it.) My  
standard (ingrained) behavior is to do this:


Type: if myvar = 99 then
Type: two carriage returns
Type: end if
Type: up arrow (to get to the blank line
Type: tab

All formatted. Then I enter the middle section of the handler.

I have been looking at Constellation and I find it quite  
remarkable. I think it is a good alternative for those who want a  
change from the standard Rev editor. At least we have options. ;)


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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RE: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Jim Bufalini]

As a newcomer, I may as well add my 2-cents here.

1. A global (not global variables but across the main stack and sub-stacks
or, at least, one stack) find/search/replace function would be extremely
useful, given that script can be in objects, cards, libraries, the stack,
etc.

As a newcomer especially, you suddenly discover a new and better way to do
something and want to revisit where you did it another way (I know this
violates the first rule of programming "If it works, don't touch it."), but
it's the way I learn. But, I can't remember everywhere it is.

2. Debugging is not intuitive. Is there a tutorial on debugging, including
how to use the features of the msg box? Variable watching (for example can
you watch undeclared local variables?). Also, is it just that I don't know
what I'm doing or does that msg box not display array contents? All I get is
OK.

Jim


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RE: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Jim Bufalini]

Oh, one more thing. How do you turn on line numbers in the script editor?

Jim

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[SimPLsol]

In a message dated 6/28/05 2:25:02 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

if a then
     if b then get c else get d
else
     doSomethingElse
end if

It generates:

if a then
     if b then get c else get d
     else
     doSomethingElse
     end if

I get the same response (OS X 10.4.1, Rev 2.5.1) however this formats 
properly:

if a 
then
  if b 
 then get c 
 else get d
else
     doSomethingElse
end if

We could argue all month about style but, for the benefit of anyone 
interested, here's how I do it:

if [short statement] then [short statement]

if [long statement]
then [long statement]

if [statement]
then
 [multiple statement #1]
 [multiple statement #2]
 [additional statements]
end if

if [statement]
then
 [one or more statements]
else
 [one or more statements]
end if

Like it or not, it is consistent, it is easy to read, and it formats 
correctly. Putting "then" under "if", instead of after it, really helps 
readability 
with nested repeats - like Dennis' example.
Paul Looney
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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Jon]

Jim Bufalini wrote:


As a newcomer, I may as well add my 2-cents here.

1. A global (not global variables but across the main stack and sub-stacks
or, at least, one stack) find/search/replace function would be extremely
useful, given that script can be in objects, cards, libraries, the stack,
etc.
 



Total agreement


As a newcomer especially, you suddenly discover a new and better way to do
something and want to revisit where you did it another way (I know this
violates the first rule of programming "If it works, don't touch it."), but
it's the way I learn. But, I can't remember everywhere it is.

2. Debugging is not intuitive. Is there a tutorial on debugging, including
how to use the features of the msg box? Variable watching (for example can
you watch undeclared local variables?). Also, is it just that I don't know
what I'm doing or does that msg box not display array contents? All I get is
OK.
 



Check out Development in the main menu and then Variable Watcher (or 
something like that).  Not all that intuitive, but it does work, and well.


:)

Jon
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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Jon]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


We could argue all month about style but, for the benefit of anyone
interested, here's how I do it:



OK, so, here is how I would like code to be formatted (not that I expect 
it to change, just FYI).


if [short statement] then [short statement]

if [long statement] then
  [long statement]
 
if [statement] then

  [statements]
  end if  -- note I always line my ENDs up with the internal statements

There is a reason for this: if I want to clip the final line out, I can 
just do a  and not have to back up to get rid of the 
"EN" that was accidentally included.  This is one of the annoyances with 
the current script editor, something that does not happen with the 
Delphi editor.


if [statement] then
  [statements]
else
  [statements]
  end if

Like it or not, it is consistent and it is easy to read.

:)

Jon

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Jon]

J. Landman Gay wrote:

I am very used to unaligned scripts until I hit the tab key; that's 
been the standard in all xtalks for almost 20 years. 



I think the point is that it is technically possible to have editors 
that provide the auto-format AND also allow one to only rarely have 
"unaligned scripts".  The fact that you are very used to this is more a 
comment on defects in the editor than it is in the beauty of Rev.


And, BTW, I NEVER would have guessed that the  key did ANYTHING 
other than enter  characters into the text.  This is a great 
example of a totally bizarre UI that you folks have become so used to 
that you can't see the strangeness of it.


I know I'm coming off as being a bit annoying, but it is frustrating 
after having used decent tools for years and years to discover the 
number of buggy areas in Rev that the rest of you seem to take for 
granted.  It is very off-putting to experienced programmers from other 
platforms.  If you want Rev to grow, you might want to take a less 
parochial attitude about these problem areas. Simply saying "well, we 
don't mind it, so you shouldn't mind" seems beside the point.


Jon
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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Sarah Reichelt]

1. A global (not global variables but across the main stack and sub- 
stacks
or, at least, one stack) find/search/replace function would be  
extremely
useful, given that script can be in objects, cards, libraries, the  
stack,

etc.


Find & Replace in the Edit menu allows you to specify where you want  
to search (card, stack, sub-stacks, folder etc) and what containers  
you want to search (fields, scripts, properties etc.)


HTH,
Sarah


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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Sarah Reichelt]

Oh, one more thing. How do you turn on line numbers in the script  
editor?


I don;t think you can, but you can go to a specific line. There is a  
btton in the bottom left corner of the script editor window, just  
above the Apply button. Clicking this cycles through 3 different  
states: auto-complete, find & replace or go to line number.


Cheers,
Sarah

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Re: copy of bounced message

[Alex Tweedly]

Jon wrote:


Alex:

Thanks for your interest.  Rather than bothering the Rev folks,


I think you should bother the Rev folks - it's poor for RevOnline to 
have dangling links to non-available stacks.



just try www.jonbondy.com/jlbimage.rev



Are you sure that's the latest version of your stack ?  It has a number 
of errors - resizeStack has a number of incomplete references to the 
image ( "image" instead of img "image"), some variables are 
inconsistently used in resizestack (w vs ww, h vs wh, ...), the variable 
"count" is never increased within the main loop in LinearizeBrightness, 
.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



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Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.
Version: 7.0.323 / Virus Database: 267.8.2/29 - Release Date: 27/06/2005

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Alex Tweedly]

Jon wrote:

OK, so, here is how I would like code to be formatted (not that I 
expect it to change, just FYI).

  
if [statement] then
  [statements]
  end if  -- note I always line my ENDs up with the internal statements

There is a reason for this: if I want to clip the final line out, I 
can just do a  and not have to back up to get rid 
of the "EN" that was accidentally included.  This is one of the 
annoyances with the current script editor, something that does not 
happen with the Delphi editor.


But you still have that problem with the statement before the "else" 
(and before the end of repeat, switch, case, end of handler, ...); 
Operating on the whole current line, is common, so I'd like a command to 
either select whole current line, or to select from  to the 
end of the whitespace on the next line.


--
Alex Tweedly   http://www.tweedly.net



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Re: Note to self: ALWAYS apply script changes

[Jerry Daniels]

Howard, not to hawk my own product, but you can set Constellation 
Script Editor (www.daniels-mara.com/products/constellation.htm) to auto 
save and auto archive every so many compiles (appy). Once every 5 
compiles for each mainStack you're working on, for instance. You set 
the frequency.


Couldn't resist mentioning it.

-JD

On Jun 28, 2005, at 2:50 PM, Howard Bornstein wrote:


On 6/27/05, Ron Noice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
I've run into a problem in 2.6 that caused me to lose everything 
since the=
 previous save. Twice! Which just goes to show ya -- it takes 
repetition to=

 teach an old dog new tricks. Very likely I'm the only twit who would=
 actually follow the sequence of events I'll outline here, but just 
in case=

 someone else does, don't! The end result is that I get myself into a=
 position where I try to Save but instead, Rev immediately quits 
without=
 saving anything. Don't know if this can be classed as a bug or just 
as=
 something stupid not to do. But the problem can be reproduced with 
the=
 following clever steps (BTW, I'm using Windows XP - which should 
have been=

 punishment enough - and Rev 2.6):


Ron,

Since you've found a repeatable recipe, it would be a good idea to
Bugzilla this.

--
Regards,

Howard Bornstein
---
www.designeq.com
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Post comand

[J. Landman Gay]

Devin Asay asked me to post this for him, as he is having trouble 
sending to the list (I suspect the new IP hasn't propagated to his 
provider yet.)


He can read your responses, so fire away.

= From Devin: =

I need to send some data to a php page on a web server, just a short 
string like "abc2". I've read all I can find on the post command in  the 
documentation, but can't figure out how to format the data so the  php 
script will read it.


My stack:
contents of fld "uid": "abc2"
(I also tried [ name="netid" value="dna3" ] as the value of the  field. 
Sans the [].)


the post button script:
on mouseUp
  post urlencode(fld "uid") to url fld "urlText" -- also tried  without 
urlencode

  set the htmltext of fld "returnedText" to it
end mouseUp

The result returned makes it obvious that the php script executed,  but 
never received the value "abc2".


FWIW, the php script (one I wrote, that works when I hard code 
everything) uses the $POST_[value name here] format to grab the data.  I 
am a neophyte in php land, but have used this method successfully  in 
the past to pass values from html forms.


There are no clear examples of how to do this in the docs, and the  list 
archive at http://lists.runrev.com seems to be offline at the  moment. 
Can anyone point me in the right direction?


Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University




--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[SimPLsol]

In a message dated 6/28/05 3:24:45 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> 
> > We could argue all month about style but
> 

As I said "We could argue all month about style " and, knowing this list, we 
will.
Putting "end" in line with the statements is inconsistent with the standard 
xTalk way of handling handlers:

on mouseUp
end mouseUp

on something
end something

if something
then
 doWhat
else
 doOther
end if

And the more nested repeats you have in a handler, the easier it is to read 
as formatted above -or below:

If something
then
 if subCommand
 then
  if something2
  then
   subCommand2
  else
   otherCommand2
  end if
 else
  altCommand
 end if
end if

It is very hard to see where nested conditionals end if the "end" is in line 
with the nested statement:
If something
then
 if subCommand
 then
  if something2
  then
   subCommand2
  else
   otherCommand2
   end if
 else
  altCommand
  end if
 end if

It gets worse with "inline thens":
If something then
 if subCommand then
  if something2 then
   subCommand2
  else
   otherCommand2
   end if
 else
  altCommand
  end if
 end if
I'm not still sure where that last "end if" goes, should it be indented 
further (to the "end if" on the line above)? No wonder the editor gets confused 
trying to align such scripts.
Paul Looney
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Re: Post comand

[Trevor DeVore]

On Jun 28, 2005, at 4:20 PM, J. Landman Gay wrote:
I need to send some data to a php page on a web server, just a short 
string like "abc2". I've read all I can find on the post command in  
the documentation, but can't figure out how to format the data so the  
php script will read it.


Take a look at libUrlFormData.  It shows one way of doing this.


--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: copy of bounced message

[Jon]

Alex Tweedly wrote:


just try www.jonbondy.com/jlbimage.rev



Are you sure that's the latest version of your stack ?  It has a 
number of errors - resizeStack has a number of incomplete references 
to the image ( "image" instead of img "image"), some variables are 
inconsistently used in resizestack (w vs ww, h vs wh, ...), the 
variable "count" is never increased within the main loop in 
LinearizeBrightness, . 



Yes, that's it.  I gave up on Rev for this application weeks ago, and 
left it unfinished, there being no point in spending any more time on 
it.  If you just focus on the array speed issue, and see what you can 
do, that would be very helpful, not only to me, but possibly to others 
who are also convinced that serious array processing in Rev is too 
slow.  If you can get the arrays to glisten, I can polish the rest of 
the thing.


If the errors prevent you from making further progress, let me know, and 
I'll work on them until it's decent enough for you to look at.


Thanks for the interest!

:)

Jon
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RE: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Jim Bufalini]

Thanks Sara! That's good to know. Where are these kinds of features of the
Script Editor documented? -Jim

-Original Message-
From: Sarah Reichelt [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 12:57 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor


> 1. A global (not global variables but across the main stack and sub-
> stacks
> or, at least, one stack) find/search/replace function would be
> extremely
> useful, given that script can be in objects, cards, libraries, the
> stack,
> etc.

Find & Replace in the Edit menu allows you to specify where you want
to search (card, stack, sub-stacks, folder etc) and what containers
you want to search (fields, scripts, properties etc.)

HTH,
Sarah





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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Jon]

Alex Tweedly wrote:


Jon wrote:

OK, so, here is how I would like code to be formatted (not that I 
expect it to change, just FYI).

  
if [statement] then
  [statements]
  end if  -- note I always line my ENDs up with the internal statements

There is a reason for this: if I want to clip the final line out, I 
can just do a  and not have to back up to get rid 
of the "EN" that was accidentally included.  This is one of the 
annoyances with the current script editor, something that does not 
happen with the Delphi editor.


But you still have that problem with the statement before the "else" 
(and before the end of repeat, switch, case, end of handler, ...); 
Operating on the whole current line, is common, so I'd like a command 
to either select whole current line, or to select from  
to the end of the whitespace on the next line.



You are quite right about the problem with ELSE (I'm used to Pascal 
where multiple line statements are bracketed by BEGIN/END, and since I 
indent the END, that "takes care of" that "problem").


I also indent the end of REPEATs, SWITCHES, CASES, etc, so that is not a 
problem for me (unless I use the auto-format in Rev).


One can select the whole current line via , 
but then you have to make room for the text.


I've begun to realize that the ease with which I use Delphi is due 
significantly to issues other than the editor (my bizarre indentation 
style, the BEGIN/END syntax, etc).  That said, I agree with an earlier 
statement by someone else that the editor's auto-indent behavior can be 
improved without making problems for long-time (not to say "older" ) 
users of the editor.


:)

Jon
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Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace

[Timothy Miller]

For reasons I should not disclose, I am accustomed to do a simple 
"Find-in-fields-in-this-stack" with command-F, rather than command-M 
followed by keyboard input of  'find "whatever"' Okay, it's not *way* 
different, but it's a little different.


Several times in the last few days, I have typed command-f, the word 
I want to search for, and return, before I realized that I was 
unintentionally using the "find and replace" window. A couple of 
other checkboxes were checked off, in addition to "field text," and 
the stack was not small. I had time to brew a pot of tea, preheat the 
oven, and bake a dozen cookies before it was done searching, so I 
could resume the work I was hurrying to finish on time. :-( (My 
computer isn't all that fast -- a 466 mhz G4 -- but it isn't normally 
a slowpoke, either. A conventional find is plenty fast.)


It happened to me again a few minutes ago. Okay -- I did it to 
myself. But really, how hard could it be to add a gosh darned "stop 
searching" button to the find and replace window??!! Command-period 
doesn't work. I couldn't get the msg box to come up. I considered 
command-Q, but it didn't seem like a very good idea. I tried to turn 
on "suppress messages" but that seemed unresponsive.


Maybe there's a trick to stopping the slow find-and-replace. If so, 
please tell me. If not, is there some good reason this obvious 
feature is absent?


Tim Miller
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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Robert Brenstein]

 >

 > We could argue all month about style but



As I said "We could argue all month about style " and, knowing this list, we
will.
Putting "end" in line with the statements is inconsistent with the standard
xTalk way of handling handlers:



Well, not much to argue really. In C, there are at least 3 major (as 
in popular) ways of positioning braces to mark the blocks. So it is 
quite normal that newcomers to Rev bring their habits and preferences 
with them. But just like they (I mean you guys) have to get used to 
xTalk syntax, they (you) will get used to a bit different indenting 
of blocks and layout of code.


Having 'end if' aligned with 'if' and 'else' is quite logical, if one 
thinks about it. After all, that 'end' ends that block. Braces give a 
totally different optical effect and C does not require to have each 
in a separate line.


Real bugs in editor are a different story. I wonder whether they are 
reported in Bugzilla. Newcomers surely are more likely to find some 
bugs since we the oldtimers learned to use the editor in a 'safe' way 
over the years.


Robert
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Re: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace

[Sarah Reichelt]

Several times in the last few days, I have typed command-f, the  
word I want to search for, and return, before I realized that I was  
unintentionally using the "find and replace" window. A couple of  
other checkboxes were checked off, in addition to "field text," and  
the stack was not small. I had time to brew a pot of tea, preheat  
the oven, and bake a dozen cookies before it was done searching, so  
I could resume the work I was hurrying to finish on time. :-( (My  
computer isn't all that fast -- a 466 mhz G4 -- but it isn't  
normally a slowpoke, either. A conventional find is plenty fast.)


There is a bug in the Find & Replace when used on fields. Chipp has  
posted a fix and you can find the details here:



It really doesn't take long and normally the Find button becomes a  
Stop button when searching, but I think in this case, it doesn't even  
start searching.


HTH,
Sarah

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RE: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace

[Jim Bufalini]

Sara or Chipp,

The link to the patch .../2005-February/050697.html is broken. Is there a
new link? By the way, that a GREAT search function. I was using the one in
the script editor and was having to memorize which scripts to search. Big
time and human memory saver! Now if I could just learn the  best ways to use
the debugging features... Hmmm, what will I do with all the extra time!

Jim

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Sarah
Reichelt
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 2:34 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace


> Several times in the last few days, I have typed command-f, the
> word I want to search for, and return, before I realized that I was
> unintentionally using the "find and replace" window. A couple of
> other checkboxes were checked off, in addition to "field text," and
> the stack was not small. I had time to brew a pot of tea, preheat
> the oven, and bake a dozen cookies before it was done searching, so
> I could resume the work I was hurrying to finish on time. :-( (My
> computer isn't all that fast -- a 466 mhz G4 -- but it isn't
> normally a slowpoke, either. A conventional find is plenty fast.)

There is a bug in the Find & Replace when used on fields. Chipp has
posted a fix and you can find the details here:


It really doesn't take long and normally the Find button becomes a
Stop button when searching, but I think in this case, it doesn't even
start searching.

HTH,
Sarah

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about mp3 tags and Rev...

[Andre Garzia]

Does anyone here knows where to find the old Shao Sean libs for  
reading mp3 metadata? I have a simple podcasting app here that would  
benefit from that. Or any other way to retrieve the data.


Cheers
andre
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How to View Rev Scripts

[Mark Swindell]

How can I view the scripts Rev uses to do what it does?   I want to 
check out the Find and Replace All for example... can I get in to see 
those scripts or am I locked out?


Mark

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Bob Warren]

I can sum up a little on what I object to in the script editor by saying
that I expect an editor to do what I want it to do, not what IT wants ME to
do. Automatic formatting may well be an advantage in a number of respects,
but at what cost? What's the good of it if it makes the most simple
operations twice as difficult as they would be otherwise? Here is a very
simple example of what I am talking about:

Here is a line with no indent
Here is a line with an indent

How do I remove the indent in the 2nd line? In VB, all I have to do is
position the cursor before the indented "H" of the 2nd line and then hit
BACKSPACE. Alternatively, I can position the cursor at the very beginning of
the line before the indent and then hit DELETE repeatedly to remove the 4
blank characters constituting the indent. I would choose the first option,
of course. (The advantage of being able to remove single blanks rather
chunks of 4 is that I can create indents of only 1 or 2 characters if I
want. As I explained previously, if I create a new line above or below a
given line, the indentation of the new lines matches that of the original,
even when the size of the indentation is non-standard.)

In Word, there is no possibility of positioning the cursor at the beginning
of the line before the indent. Just like Rev, it gets positioned immediately
before the "H". However, if I type BACKSPACE, Word simply removes the
indent.

But what do I have to do in Revolution? First of all, I find that wherever I
try to position the cursor on the LHS of the 2nd line, it ends up positioned
after the indent, immediately before the "H". Then I hit BACKSPACE which
gives the following result:

Here is a line with no indentHere is a line with an indent

The cursor is positioned between the 2 sentences. Then, I have to type ENTER
to separate the lines:

Here is a line with no indent
Here is a line with an indent (that has now had its indent removed)

How does such eccentric behaviour balance with the advantages of
auto-formatting?

Summing up on the question of bugs, I suggested that the Rev editor should
be simplified merely because whoever programmed it seemed to be biting off
more than he could chew, evidenced by the bugs and confusions that still
remain in the editor after years of use. If the author is NOT biting off
more than he can chew, or if the current Rev team responsible for it are not
biting off more than they can chew, then I suggest they PROVE ME WRONG,
AND THE SOONER THE BETTER!









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Re: How to View Rev Scripts

[Richard Gaskin]

Mark Swindell wrote:
How can I view the scripts Rev uses to do what it does?   I want to 
check out the Find and Replace All for example... can I get in to see 
those scripts or am I locked out?


Nearly everything in the Rev IDE is open for your perusal.  You can turn 
on an option in Prefs to list Rev objects in the App browser.  You can 
get into Rev's frontScripts and backScripts using the Message Box.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: How to View Rev Scripts

[Mark Swindell]

Perfect.  Thank you.
Mark

On Jun 28, 2005, at 6:57 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:


Mark Swindell wrote:
How can I view the scripts Rev uses to do what it does?   I want to 
check out the Find and Replace All for example... can I get in to see 
those scripts or am I locked out?


Nearly everything in the Rev IDE is open for your perusal.  You can 
turn on an option in Prefs to list Rev objects in the App browser.  
You can get into Rev's frontScripts and backScripts using the Message 
Box.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
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resume rev backdrop on top bug?

[Sivakatirswami]

OSX:

I've been testing mp4 compressions with a rev stack to view multiple  
movies on the same interface... setting the backdrop to black... to  
ease distraction with QT Pro running on the side... OK so if I  
activate QT Pro  my movie appears on top of the black back drop in  
the QT player window... my top stack is also still there... visible.


Now, if QT is the active app (or any other app.. mail.app... bbedit..  
whatever) and I click down on the backdrop, *all* windows  
disappear if I click on QT or mail.app in the dock, the promptly  
present their windows again as expected.  But... if I click on  
Revolution only the menus and palette stacks appear and the top stack  
is still invisible unless I go to the window menu. And what is even  
stranger... if the QT window is visible and the active app, and my  
top stack is visible also, when I move the mouse to click down on the  
top stack, it disappears!


This I believe has been happening for some time and I'm only now  
getting the recipe... I would like to use the backdrop more in apps  
that are distributed publicly, but this behavior would be a serious  
UI problem.


Or, perhaps I'm missing something?


Sivakatirswami



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Long Filename Problem is Ubiquitous

[Sivakatirswami]

See other thread on long file names for player refs... two days I  
upped the ante on a stack file name (disk file name)


HPI-Daily-Generator_June-23-2005.rev

Now, when my managing editor finishes his work and tries to save  
this, Rev responds that it is unable to create the temp back up file  
(or something like that) promptly quits with the stack unsaved.  
Fortunately he had already run the process to send the email to the  
list and upload our daily news feed...so, we were not burnt... this  
time... the temp file is there in the finder with some hashed  
characters toward the end... I deleted that and changed the file name  
back to "HPI-Generator_Jun-23-05.rev" and now it saves fine.


Do I need to bugzilla this or is that part of the earlier bug of Nov  
04? (our firewall is down, I won't see bugzilla till tomorrow, office  
hours)


Aloha
Sivakatirswami



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Re: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace

[Sarah Reichelt]

It works for me, but you may still be experiencing problems due to  
the Rev server change. Anyway, here is the direct link. Paste this  
into your message box and press Enter.


go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/altRevSearchFix.rev";

Cheers,
Sarah

On 29/06/2005, at 10:47 AM, Jim Bufalini wrote:


Sara or Chipp,

The link to the patch .../2005-February/050697.html is broken. Is  
there a
new link? By the way, that a GREAT search function. I was using the  
one in
the script editor and was having to memorize which scripts to  
search. Big
time and human memory saver! Now if I could just learn the  best  
ways to use
the debugging features... Hmmm, what will I do with all the extra  
time!


Jim

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Sarah
Reichelt
Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 2:34 PM
To: How to use Revolution
Subject: Re: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace




Several times in the last few days, I have typed command-f, the
word I want to search for, and return, before I realized that I was
unintentionally using the "find and replace" window. A couple of
other checkboxes were checked off, in addition to "field text," and
the stack was not small. I had time to brew a pot of tea, preheat
the oven, and bake a dozen cookies before it was done searching, so
I could resume the work I was hurrying to finish on time. :-( (My
computer isn't all that fast -- a 466 mhz G4 -- but it isn't
normally a slowpoke, either. A conventional find is plenty fast.)



There is a bug in the Find & Replace when used on fields. Chipp has
posted a fix and you can find the details here:


It really doesn't take long and normally the Find button becomes a
Stop button when searching, but I think in this case, it doesn't even
start searching.

HTH,
Sarah

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post command example?

[Devin Asay]

I need to send some data to a php page on a web server, just a short  
string like "abc2". I've read all I can find on the post command in  
the documentation, but can't figure out how to format the data so the  
php script will read it.


My stack:
contents of fld "uid": "abc2"
(I also tried [ name="netid" value="dna3" ] as the value of the  
field. Sans the [].)


the post button script:
on mouseUp
  post urlencode(fld "uid") to url fld "urlText" -- also tried  
without urlencode

  set the htmltext of fld "returnedText" to it
end mouseUp

The result returned makes it obvious that the php script executed,  
but never received the value "abc2".


FWIW, the php script (one I wrote, that works when I hard code  
everything) uses the $POST_[value name here] format to grab the data.  
I am a neophyte in php land, but have used this method successfully  
in the past to pass values from html forms.


There are no clear examples of how to do this in the docs, and the  
list archive at http://lists.runrev.com seems to be offline at the  
moment.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?


Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


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post command example?

[Devin Asay]

I need to send some data to a php page on a web server, just a short  
string like "abc2". I've read all I can find on the post command in  
the documentation, but can't figure out how to format the data so the  
php script will read it.


My stack:
contents of fld "uid": "abc2"
(I also tried [ name="netid" value="dna3" ] as the value of the  
field. Sans the [].)


the post button script:
on mouseUp
  post urlencode(fld "uid") to url fld "urlText" -- also tried  
without urlencode

  set the htmltext of fld "returnedText" to it
end mouseUp

The result returned makes it obvious that the php script executed,  
but never received the value "abc2".


FWIW, the php script (one I wrote, that works when I hard code  
everything) uses the $POST_[value name here] format to grab the data.  
I am a neophyte in php land, but have used this method successfully  
in the past to pass values from html forms.


There are no clear examples of how to do this in the docs, and the  
list archive at http://lists.runrev.com seems to be offline at the  
moment.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?


Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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post command example?

[Devin Asay]

Sorry if you're getting multiple posts from me. I seem to be having  
the same problem others are having getting my posts to the list. I  
have notified [EMAIL PROTECTED]

DNA

--original message
I need to send some data to a php page on a web server, just a short  
string like "abc2". I've read all I can find on the post command in  
the documentation, but can't figure out how to format the data so the  
php script will read it.


My stack:
contents of fld "uid": "abc2"
(I also tried [ name="netid" value="dna3" ] as the value of the  
field. Sans the [].)


the post button script:
on mouseUp
  post urlencode(fld "uid") to url fld "urlText" -- also tried  
without urlencode

  set the htmltext of fld "returnedText" to it
end mouseUp

The result returned makes it obvious that the php script executed,  
but never received the value "abc2".


FWIW, the php script (one I wrote, that works when I hard code  
everything) uses the $POST_[value name here] format to grab the data.  
I am a neophyte in php land, but have used this method successfully  
in the past to pass values from html forms.


There are no clear examples of how to do this in the docs, and the  
list archive at http://lists.runrev.com seems to be offline at the  
moment.  Can anyone point me in the right direction?


Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University


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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[David Squance]

I should probably just stay out of this, but a few comments have my 
dander up.  First, distinguish more clearly between bugs and style.  To 
those of you from other backgrounds, x-talk is different. Many of us 
like it this way.  There are more important things for the developers to 
be doing than adding features from other languages to suit a few migrants.


Bob Warren wrote:


In Word, there is no possibility of positioning the cursor at the beginning

 

How you can even think of bringing Word into this discussion is 
amazing.  It's got to be one of the most "let me think for you, you're 
too stupid" programs ever produced.  I'm constantly trying to undo its 
choices.


Much of the discussion reminds me of people who move to a new country 
and constantly bitch about it, until all around them want to tell them 
to go back where they came from.

Dave
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Re: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace

[Timothy Miller]

There is a bug in the Find & Replace when used on fields. Chipp has 
posted a fix and you can find the details here:



It really doesn't take long and normally the Find button becomes a 
Stop button when searching, but I think in this case, it doesn't 
even start searching.




Hi Sarah,

Thanks to you and others on this thread.

Do you mean to say that if I click on the "find" button again, it 
halts the search? I just tried that. I'm on v 2.5.1 of Dreamcard. It 
doesn't seem to work that way. As a matter of fact, it appears that 
if I click on the "find" button while the search is in process, it 
causes "find and replace" to start a new search as soon as it 
finishes the current one. The painfully long wait is doubled.


I don't think I understand the bug you mention. I.e., "...it doesn't 
really even start searching." As I recall, though I haven't taken 
notes, the thing does eventually find what it's supposed to find. 
It's just painfully slow. Maybe it misses some stuff, though. I 
wouldn't have noticed that.


I downloaded the patch. A big Thank You! to the author. It seems to 
help. I tried the same search with the same checkboxes checked -- 
field text, name, and script. Find and replace is still pokey, but I 
didn't have time to bake a batch of cookies.


In spite of the welcome patch, "find" in the message box searches all 
the field text in the stack almost instantaneously. The "find" in the 
find-and-replace window, searching for field text only, in "this 
stack" only, takes 100 to 1000 times as long. That just don't seem 
right.


It still seems to me that a "stop searching" button on this window 
would be a welcome addition, unless it can be made to work so fast 
that none would be necessary.


Is there something I'm not getting?


Best regards


Tim
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Re: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace

[Chipp Walters]

Sarah and Jim,

I believe the bug has been fixed in the latest version of the IDE. Sarah 
is correct, the usual Find is VERY VERY fast and shouldn't take much 
time at all.


-Chipp

Sarah Reichelt wrote:
It works for me, but you may still be experiencing problems due to  the 
Rev server change. Anyway, here is the direct link. Paste this  into 
your message box and press Enter.


go URL "http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/altRevSearchFix.rev";

Cheers,
Sarah



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Re: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace

[Stephen Barncard]

Any downside to the patch if applied to 2.6, as I just did?


Sarah and Jim,

I believe the bug has been fixed in the latest version of the IDE. 
Sarah is correct, the usual Find is VERY VERY fast and shouldn't 
take much time at all.


-Chipp

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Thomas McGrath III]

Actually you sound very annoying and you seem to blatantly want to 
attack everyone on the list with rude comments.  It is getting quite 
old by now.


I for one read the docs and saw that tab forces the formatting. So 
maybe instead of constantly bitching you should read the docs.



tom

On Jun 28, 2005, at 6:54 PM, Jon wrote:

I know I'm coming off as being a bit annoying, but it is frustrating 
after having used decent tools for years and years to discover the 
number of buggy areas in Rev that the rest of you seem to take for 
granted.  It is very off-putting to experienced programmers from other 
platforms.


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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Chipp Walters]

Bob,

I understand both you and Jon are frustrated by the indenting of the 
script editor and it's duly noted. It's difficult to switch paradigms.


In a quick search of all the back use-revolution posts, I could only 
find 6 references to "indent + script + editor" in over 262,000 posts, 
and none of them shared your individual concerns. Perhaps it's time to 
make a note in Bugzilla for a feature request and let it go at that.


Or, if you're up to it, create you own script editor which indents 
however you like, or use Trevor's handy BBedit script, then you can use 
BBedit to format your scripts any way you like.


best regards,

Chipp


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Re: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace

[Chipp Walters]

Hi Timothy!

Timothy Miller wrote:


In spite of the welcome patch, "find" in the message box searches all 
the field text in the stack almost instantaneously. The "find" in the 
find-and-replace window, searching for field text only, in "this stack" 
only, takes 100 to 1000 times as long. That just don't seem right.


It still seems to me that a "stop searching" button on this window would 
be a welcome addition, unless it can be made to work so fast that none 
would be necessary.


The reason for no 'stop searching' button, is that typically searches 
are so fast you don't need to have such a function. In fact, *when 
working properly*, I've never had more than a couple seconds of 
searches, even when searching through 50,000 lines of code.


best,

Chipp


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Re: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace

[Mark Wieder]

Timothy-

Tuesday, June 28, 2005, 8:39:04 PM, you wrote:

TM> It still seems to me that a "stop searching" button on this window
TM> would be a welcome addition, unless it can be made to work so fast
TM> that none would be necessary.

TM> Is there something I'm not getting?

I can't imagine how you're getting such slow results. Any cookies
left?

If I'm quick enough I can press command-period and the find stops
before the next container. Does that not work for you? I have to be
really quick about pressing it, though, because otherwise the search
is all done.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[J. Landman Gay]

On 6/28/05 5:54 PM, Jon wrote:

> And, BTW, I NEVER would have guessed that the  key did ANYTHING
> other than enter  characters into the text.  This is a great
> example of a totally bizarre UI that you folks have become so used to
> that you can't see the strangeness of it.

Not an excuse, but an explanation: HyperCard started this convention 20 
years ago. SuperCard took it up to be compatible and continued it. When 
MetaCard came along, it too adopted the same tab-key behavior. 
Revolution continues the long tradition. So, there have been four x-talk 
IDEs that use this convention spanning many years. And that's why.


In Revolution, it is mentioned in the Help menu -> Quick Reference 
Guides -> Shortcut Reference. I admit this isn't easy to find.



--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace

[J. Landman Gay]

On 6/28/05 7:47 PM, Jim Bufalini wrote:


Now if I could just learn the  best ways to use
the debugging features... Hmmm, what will I do with all the extra time!


We will be having a scripting conference on the debugger, though it is 
quite a ways into the future (fall, I think). Still, keep an eye out.


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Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Thomas McGrath III]

I don't know Jacqueline, I found it right away since I wanted to become 
proficient with Rev and naturally looked up the shortcuts.


tab seemed natural to me coming from SC and HC before that.

Tom

On Jun 29, 2005, at 12:06 AM, J. Landman Gay wrote:


On 6/28/05 5:54 PM, Jon wrote:

> And, BTW, I NEVER would have guessed that the  key did ANYTHING
> other than enter  characters into the text.  This is a great
> example of a totally bizarre UI that you folks have become so used to
> that you can't see the strangeness of it.

Not an excuse, but an explanation: HyperCard started this convention 
20 years ago. SuperCard took it up to be compatible and continued it. 
When MetaCard came along, it too adopted the same tab-key behavior. 
Revolution continues the long tradition. So, there have been four 
x-talk IDEs that use this convention spanning many years. And that's 
why.


In Revolution, it is mentioned in the Help menu -> Quick Reference 
Guides -> Shortcut Reference. I admit this isn't easy to find.



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Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.8, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.5



Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]



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Re: Suggestion for correcting the IDE's script editor

[Richard Gaskin]

Thomas McGrath III wrote:
I don't know Jacqueline, I found it right away since I wanted to become 
proficient with Rev and naturally looked up the shortcuts.


tab seemed natural to me coming from SC and HC before that.


I've seen tab used for indentint in a lot of editors.  In fact, most of 'em.

With Rev you get a lot of tabbing with just one keystroke. :)

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Arrrgghh -- Find and Replace

[Chipp Walters]

No problem, it's the exact same script fix as the original. You just
patched it to be the same as it was.

-Chipp

Stephen Barncard wrote:

Any downside to the patch if applied to 2.6, as I just did?



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Properties scripting conference log

[J. Landman Gay]

I forgot to announce that the log for the scripting conference on 
Properties has been edited and inserted into its conference stack. You 
can re-download the Properties stack to get the log at:




Sorry about the late notice; the server was down over the weekend and 
then I forgot all about it.


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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com

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Endless ranting and rude insults

[Thomas McGrath III]

I for one am getting very annoyed at the constant ranting and raving 
lately and especially the snide and rude remarks. I try to assume since 
there are many non-english speaking people or ones with whom english is 
not their first language on the list that sometimes it might just sound 
rude but not really be rude because of the language translations. But 
there are a couple of people that have been just plain rude. Insulting 
"the whole list" and accusations that 'real programmers would never 
work this way" or " I am used to decent tools" etc.
I am also getting fed up with the references to "better" programs and 
or languages like Pascal, FORTRAN, VB, Delphi, Java, or Word. If they 
are so great then I must ask "Why are these people here?" , "Why not 
just go back to these 'superior' products/languages?"


I am trying to learn Transcript and could care less about these other 
languages. I am trying to become proficient with Transcript not with VB 
or Delphi. I do mind about how Rev progresses and grows and I for one 
don't want it influenced by these other languages or programs at all. 
Instead of saying that we all should change because these people don't 
like it or are not used to it, I suggest rather that these people learn 
to adapt to this far superior way of 'simple' coding style instead of 
wasting so much list space with all this nonsense.


Now maybe I am just having a bad day and maybe not, but I think some of 
this is going too far.



Tom

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.8, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.5



Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Re: Endless ranting and rude insults

[Thomas McGrath III]

I miss Ben. At least he knew that he was rude.

Tom

On Jun 29, 2005, at 12:26 AM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

I for one am getting very annoyed at the constant ranting and raving 
lately and especially the snide and rude remarks. I try to assume 
since there are many non-english speaking people or ones with whom 
english is not their first language on the list that sometimes it 
might just sound rude but not really be rude because of the language 
translations. But there are a couple of people that have been just 
plain rude. Insulting "the whole list" and accusations that 'real 
programmers would never work this way" or " I am used to decent tools" 
etc.
I am also getting fed up with the references to "better" programs and 
or languages like Pascal, FORTRAN, VB, Delphi, Java, or Word. If they 
are so great then I must ask "Why are these people here?" , "Why not 
just go back to these 'superior' products/languages?"


I am trying to learn Transcript and could care less about these other 
languages. I am trying to become proficient with Transcript not with 
VB or Delphi. I do mind about how Rev progresses and grows and I for 
one don't want it influenced by these other languages or programs at 
all. Instead of saying that we all should change because these people 
don't like it or are not used to it, I suggest rather that these 
people learn to adapt to this far superior way of 'simple' coding 
style instead of wasting so much list space with all this nonsense.


Now maybe I am just having a bad day and maybe not, but I think some 
of this is going too far.



Tom

Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.8, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.5



Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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Thomas J. McGrath III
SCS
1000 Killarney Dr.
Pittsburgh, PA 15234
412-885-8541

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Ignore my last posts

[Thomas McGrath III]

Please ignore my last post. My allergy medicine hasn't kicked in yet 
and I have been sneezing for 3 hours and I just got really annoyed. 
Sorry to any that may be offended by the post.


Thanks

Tom


Macintosh PowerBook G-4 OSX 10.3.8, OS 9.2.2, 1.25 GHz, 512MB RAM, Rev 
2.5



Advanced Media Group
Thomas J McGrath III
[EMAIL PROTECTED]


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