Full-Blown CGI Apps?

2006-07-11 Thread Dan Shafer

I'm contemplating using Rev CGI (perhaps with some of Andre's new stuff if
he gets it done in time) to create a moderately complex online catalog for
my storefront. I don't need a shopping cart, just the ability to manage a
database of products, offer the user search/select/sort capabilities, and
clean display. But it occurs to me that I haven't read of anyone claiming to
have build an app this extensive using Rev CGIs. As much as I enjoy being a
pioneer, I don't have time for a lot of arrows in my back right now.

Anyone have experience to share?

--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"

From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html

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Re: Internal security of Rev?

2006-07-11 Thread Richard Gaskin

John Tregea wrote:

I read about MD5 but thought it was a way of generating a hash string 
and using that string to check if the originating string had changed. Do 
you mean I could "un" MD5 a string like base64Decode?


MD5 is used to create a "signature" of a chunk of data which is 
mathematically improbable to have been derived by a different chunk. 
This is useful for comparing two things when you don't have the things 
themselves, such as passwords, but the MD5 result doesn't contain enough 
data to derive its source.


However one can use it in place of a password, so you can compare 
password results without ever embedding the password itself.


This extremely lightweight encryption function uses MD5 for that purpose:


While that particular function is at the "toy" level of security, 
stronger methods could be made which use MD5 in related ways.


But all of this seems a red herring, if I've read this thread correctly. 
 At first I had the impression we were talking about protecting 
critical data, but in later posts it seems we're just talking about 
anti-piracy.


With all due respect, the best investment of your time with regard to 
anti-piracy is to ignore it altogether and put the time into features, 
marketing, and offering world-class support.  Pirates are rarely in the 
intersection of potential customers, so fighting them is a business 
distraction.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Internal security of Rev?

2006-07-11 Thread John Tregea
Yikes!, that point number 4 is a tall order. But happily it is one of 
the core parts of what we do and how we are able to do it.


My boss always said, "how can you write software to help people be 
organised if you can't even keep your sock drawer tidy?". Mind you I 
don't know that she had ever seen my sock drawer, but my office drawer 
may have given her a clue O:-) .


So the short answer is we take a plenty of time to get things right 
(three years on the current development) (nearly a year of evaluations 
looking for the correct development environment and database 
combination) and back up everything we do regardless of what it takes to 
fix a problem (if it is of our making). I did say this was the short 
answer, so I better shut-up now.


Thanks for all the assistance, I was hesitant to ask as we are still in 
evaluation mode and not a licensed user yet. (soon though, soon :-) )


John T


Dar Scott wrote:


On Jul 11, 2006, at 8:56 PM, John Tregea wrote:

Like putting a big padlock on the door with a note stuck to it saying 
"the key is under the mat".


Yes.

You need to write the note in pig-latin.

(almost) The best you can do is obfuscation.  Don't put your key in 
one place.  Don't leave your key in your code in a form that looks 
like a key from an editor.  Don't use a script that can be seen by a 
text editor.  Even machine language is just obfuscation.  Everybody 
has this same problem to some degree.


However, there are a few things you can do.

1
If you assume a paying customer is less likely to try to break your 
encryption, then put part or all of the decryption key in the software 
enabling key (serial number or whatever you call it).


2
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.  Don't use the same encryption 
key for all modules or all products.  This is even better when 
combined with #1.


3
Don't keep decrypted pieces in files.  Not very long, if you have to.

And most of all...

4
Keep motivation by sneaks low:  Keep your price low.  Come out with 
something better, soon.  Provide good support.  Fix bugs.  Make sure 
the software is flexible.  Be ready to license and supply OEM 
components.  Your happy customers will never notice that there is an 
encryption challenge; be ahead of them on what you give them.


Dar Scott
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Re: Internal security of Rev?

2006-07-11 Thread John Tregea

Hi Jim,

Remind me never to play poker with you... :-)

Thanks very much, I was leaning towards breaking things up into chunks 
and hiding them in places, but thought the script would allow a 
knowledgeable hacker to reverse my process to easily.


I will explore further (but quickly before my trial expires)

John

Jim Ault wrote:

You could make a small bit compress/decompress routine which would give you
less transparency. 


Perhaps using BinaryEncode/BinaryDecode in the Rev lib.  Multiple variables
in one call, very fast.  Fancier would be two levels of encoding.

You could also INTERLACE the chars of a variable between two or more custom
properties

on doInterLace  textBlock --between 2 custom properties
  put 1 into flag  --actually, any number will do
  repeat for each char CH in textBlock
put flag*-1 into flag
put CH after tempArr[flag]
  end repeat
  set the custompropertyset of this stack to "lkupTA"
  set the customproperties of this stack to tempArr
end doInterLace

And now you have interlaced chars (even cr's and nulls) in one propertyset
in two custom properties [1] and [-1].  Let them read THAT with their
morning coffee.

Extra subterfuge...  build the above script at runtime so it isn't even in
the file this is a 9-liner and you are allowed 10.

build the script
set the script of btn eraser to myScript
insert the script of btn eraser into back

doInterlace textBlock

Of course you would not want to call it 'interlace'...  perhaps sunflower,
or getIntOfLastItem.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 7/11/06 7:42 PM, "Troy Rollins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

  

On Jul 11, 2006, at 9:49 PM, John Tregea wrote:



Our application will be used to front end a database that contains
classified information, the initial login account details would
have to be stored in the Rev application (inside custom properties
  

IIRC, a couple of years back I planned to use custom properties for
this sort of thing. As I remember it, that had to be ditched because
custom properties ended up as plain text, easily readable by dropping
the stack file on a text editor. I think we pulled the properties
into script and populated them at runtime, which gave a marginally
more secure feeling.

To this day I still don't know of a very good way to handle this in
Rev produced apps. I'm all ears.

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


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Re: Internal security of Rev?

2006-07-11 Thread John Tregea

Hi Brian,

I read about MD5 but thought it was a way of generating a hash string 
and using that string to check if the originating string had changed. Do 
you mean I could "un" MD5 a string like base64Decode?


I follow you though and have now planned to store the really sensitive 
keys and names of encryption methods in the database.


I do need to store one user name and password in the front end though to 
enable Rev to connect to PostgreSQL and validate the users right to log 
in to get the rest of their accreditation and permissions.


Cheers

JT

Brian Yennie wrote:

John,

Although probably at least non-trivial, Chipp is probably on to 
something here. I don't think Rev script encryption is intended for 
the highest possible security. More like enough to keep out anyone who 
is *not* an expert.


Is it really critical for your application to store the login 
information, including password, on the client machine? That seems 
like a weak point of the security regardless of what tool you use. 
Even compiled C-code can be hacked, but it's much harder to do if the 
login information is stored remotely.


If you must store the password locally, you might look into the merits 
of a simple MD5-based solution. That is, compute a hash of the 
password and store that.


Finally, you might consider what the other weak points are. For 
example, unbreakable encryption will only do you so much good if you 
then send the password over an insecure network connection. If someone 
can just record and play back your communications, they don't have to 
know what's actually in it to break in.


As with all anti-hack measures, it will basically boil down to what is 
enough of a deterrent that it's not worth the effort to crack. There 
are virtually no unbreakable schemes, it's more a matter of setting 
the bar higher than the particular would-be intruder can reach.


HTH


John,

I'm no cryptographer, but I would guess cracking Rev's password
protected code wouldn't be too awfully hard. Mainly this is because
you can expect to find multiple occurrences of strings like "on
mouseUp". I'm not suggesting any novice could crack it, but I imagine
someone with some decent tools and a bit of time could get in.

You could probably get a more learned opinion from Dar Scott or
someone with more cryptography chops than I have.

Just my opinion,
Chipp
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Re: Dependence on Programming Experts

2006-07-11 Thread Troy Rollins


On Jul 12, 2006, at 12:46 AM, Dan Shafer wrote:


Completely disagree.


So... in other words, the language should suit specifically *you*  
rather than *everyone*.


Director has 3 complete syntaxes. They are ALL in use. I've never  
heard of anyone being bothered by the existence of the two they don't  
use. It simply doesn't come up as an issue.


How would x = 5 create problems for you if you could still PUT 5 into x?

I personally find verbose arcane. Disagree all you like.


Verbose tends to be far more readable by more people
with less detailed knowledge of the language and system.


So? Not all software is written to be handed around for community  
review. Some of it is just solitary programming and getting stuff  
done. We're not all writing eBooks about it.


You may be surprised to hear, at least some of us use Revolution  
DESPITE of its language, not because of it. I'm sure that many  
experienced developers have abandoned it entirely due to the arcane- 
seeming syntax in contrast to virtually every other language out there.


"Bah! We don't need 'em!"

What exactly is the proven benefit of keeping verbose languages  
"verbosely pure" again?


--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


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Re: Dependence on Programming Experts

2006-07-11 Thread Dan Shafer

Completely disagree. Verbose tends to be far more readable by more people
with less detailed knowledge of the language and system.

put x + 1 into x
increment x
add 1 to x

are all more readable than the more succinct

x++

just for example.

On 7/11/06, Troy Rollins <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



On Jul 11, 2006, at 10:50 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:

> I guess
> I'd grudgingly -- VERY darned grudgingly -- look the other way. But
> I'd hold
> my nose at the same time.


verbose = arcane

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


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--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"

From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html

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Re: Internal security of Rev?

2006-07-11 Thread Troy Rollins


On Jul 12, 2006, at 12:27 AM, Dar Scott wrote:

The best you can do is obfuscation.  Don't put your key in one  
place.  Don't leave your key in your code in a form that looks like  
a key from an editor.  Don't use a script that can be seen by a  
text editor.  Even machine language is just obfuscation.  Everybody  
has this same problem to some degree.


So, what does this mean in terms of Revolution?

Don't use unencrypted custom properties for anything you consider  
security sensitive data?


Encrypt custom properties and use a runtime code-assembled key to  
decrypt them?


--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


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Re: Internal security of Rev?

2006-07-11 Thread Richard Gaskin

Brian Yennie wrote:

Although probably at least non-trivial, Chipp is probably on to 
something here. I don't think Rev script encryption is intended for the 
highest possible security.


Absolutely.  All code in all languages always leave their algorithms 
exposed to anyone with a low-level debugger/disassembler.  Code is not 
the place to store secure information.


Code in Rev is encrypted with a DES equivalent; more than most "script 
kiddies" can break, but often little more than a weekend's work for 
someone who knows what she's doing.


When a stack is encrypted, properties are also made unreadable in the 
disk file via the same DES-derived algo.  But since those properties 
must be usable at runtime, anyone with a copy of Rev can simply open and 
read properties.


Security is best handled with encrypting the data itself.  Rev now 
supports Blowfish and others, which can be made to exceed legal limits 
if needed, certainly sufficient for most industrial, medical, or 
government applications.


I haven't had a need for strong security in my apps as yet, so I'm 
confident others here can provide better details on the specifics (Dar 
-- where are you? ).  But given the range of industrial-strength 
encryption options Rev now supports, I see no reason why anything made 
with Rev would be any less secure than anything made with any other tool.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
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Re: Internal security of Rev?

2006-07-11 Thread Dar Scott


On Jul 11, 2006, at 8:56 PM, John Tregea wrote:

Like putting a big padlock on the door with a note stuck to it  
saying "the key is under the mat".


Yes.

You need to write the note in pig-latin.

(almost) The best you can do is obfuscation.  Don't put your key in  
one place.  Don't leave your key in your code in a form that looks  
like a key from an editor.  Don't use a script that can be seen by a  
text editor.  Even machine language is just obfuscation.  Everybody  
has this same problem to some degree.


However, there are a few things you can do.

1
If you assume a paying customer is less likely to try to break your  
encryption, then put part or all of the decryption key in the  
software enabling key (serial number or whatever you call it).


2
Don't put all your eggs in one basket.  Don't use the same encryption  
key for all modules or all products.  This is even better when  
combined with #1.


3
Don't keep decrypted pieces in files.  Not very long, if you have to.

And most of all...

4
Keep motivation by sneaks low:  Keep your price low.  Come out with  
something better, soon.  Provide good support.  Fix bugs.  Make sure  
the software is flexible.  Be ready to license and supply OEM  
components.  Your happy customers will never notice that there is an  
encryption challenge; be ahead of them on what you give them.


Dar Scott
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Re: quicktime 3D

2006-07-11 Thread Troy Rollins


On Jul 11, 2006, at 11:43 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:


then you need to do at least as good
a job as the native platform you're running on (aka MODO).


No doubt! MODO is just gorgeous.

(Haven't sprung for that one yet, but I'm tempted by the interface  
alone.)


--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


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Re: Internal security of Rev?

2006-07-11 Thread Brian Yennie

John,

Although probably at least non-trivial, Chipp is probably on to 
something here. I don't think Rev script encryption is intended for the 
highest possible security. More like enough to keep out anyone who is 
*not* an expert.


Is it really critical for your application to store the login 
information, including password, on the client machine? That seems like 
a weak point of the security regardless of what tool you use. Even 
compiled C-code can be hacked, but it's much harder to do if the login 
information is stored remotely.


If you must store the password locally, you might look into the merits 
of a simple MD5-based solution. That is, compute a hash of the password 
and store that.


Finally, you might consider what the other weak points are. For 
example, unbreakable encryption will only do you so much good if you 
then send the password over an insecure network connection. If someone 
can just record and play back your communications, they don't have to 
know what's actually in it to break in.


As with all anti-hack measures, it will basically boil down to what is 
enough of a deterrent that it's not worth the effort to crack. There 
are virtually no unbreakable schemes, it's more a matter of setting the 
bar higher than the particular would-be intruder can reach.


HTH


John,

I'm no cryptographer, but I would guess cracking Rev's password
protected code wouldn't be too awfully hard. Mainly this is because
you can expect to find multiple occurrences of strings like "on
mouseUp". I'm not suggesting any novice could crack it, but I imagine
someone with some decent tools and a bit of time could get in.

You could probably get a more learned opinion from Dar Scott or
someone with more cryptography chops than I have.

Just my opinion,
Chipp
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Re: Dependence on Programming Experts

2006-07-11 Thread Troy Rollins


On Jul 11, 2006, at 10:50 PM, Dan Shafer wrote:


I guess
I'd grudgingly -- VERY darned grudgingly -- look the other way. But  
I'd hold

my nose at the same time.



verbose = arcane

--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


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Re: Internal security of Rev?

2006-07-11 Thread Jim Ault
You could make a small bit compress/decompress routine which would give you
less transparency. 

Perhaps using BinaryEncode/BinaryDecode in the Rev lib.  Multiple variables
in one call, very fast.  Fancier would be two levels of encoding.

You could also INTERLACE the chars of a variable between two or more custom
properties

on doInterLace  textBlock --between 2 custom properties
  put 1 into flag  --actually, any number will do
  repeat for each char CH in textBlock
put flag*-1 into flag
put CH after tempArr[flag]
  end repeat
  set the custompropertyset of this stack to "lkupTA"
  set the customproperties of this stack to tempArr
end doInterLace

And now you have interlaced chars (even cr's and nulls) in one propertyset
in two custom properties [1] and [-1].  Let them read THAT with their
morning coffee.

Extra subterfuge...  build the above script at runtime so it isn't even in
the file this is a 9-liner and you are allowed 10.

build the script
set the script of btn eraser to myScript
insert the script of btn eraser into back

doInterlace textBlock

Of course you would not want to call it 'interlace'...  perhaps sunflower,
or getIntOfLastItem.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 7/11/06 7:42 PM, "Troy Rollins" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> On Jul 11, 2006, at 9:49 PM, John Tregea wrote:
> 
>> Our application will be used to front end a database that contains
>> classified information, the initial login account details would
>> have to be stored in the Rev application (inside custom properties
> 
> IIRC, a couple of years back I planned to use custom properties for
> this sort of thing. As I remember it, that had to be ditched because
> custom properties ended up as plain text, easily readable by dropping
> the stack file on a text editor. I think we pulled the properties
> into script and populated them at runtime, which gave a marginally
> more secure feeling.
> 
> To this day I still don't know of a very good way to handle this in
> Rev produced apps. I'm all ears.
> 
> --
> Troy
> RPSystems, Ltd.
> http://www.rpsystems.net
> 
> 
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Re: quicktime 3D

2006-07-11 Thread Chipp Walters

I'm boycotting Lightwave these days. While they have a great product,
and I'm a big fan of the company, they recently hired a person to run
their 3D division, who has been nothing but trouble for all his
customers in the past. In fact, in all my years, I have never seen
such a customer unfriendly person as this guy was when he ran Electric
Image. If you know the company, then you know the person.

Besides, there are so many other great modelers out there which don't
force you to use a USB lock key (and end up losing it). The Lightwave
renderer is really good, but for single images, I prefer Vue.

Troy, if you haven't seen my Vue tutorials, you should take a peek
when you get a chance. There are some very interesting (and simple)
ways you can model things directly in Vue.

Yeah, I agree about the interface...too bad. If you're going to
provide a non-standard interface, then you need to do at least as good
a job as the native platform you're running on (aka MODO).

best,
Chipp
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Re: fstab

2006-07-11 Thread Bob Warren

OK, now I've seen the complication.

The routine shown in my previous post for examining the fstab in order 
to decide whether or not floppy or CD-rom drives exist in the hardware 
worked OK previously in Ubuntu Hoary Hedgehog.


Now I have Ubuntu Breezy Badger installed and the situation is 
different. Even if you have a floppy drive mounted and in use, there is 
no longer any mention of it in the fstab! So the fstab can no longer be 
used to discover whether or not a floppy exists in the hardware.


Examining other fstab's, there is a variation in the way the floppy and 
CD-rom appear (if they appear at all).


The first word for the floppy can be
/dev/fd0

The second word for the floppy can be
/media/floppy0
/mnt/floppy
etc.

The first word for the CD-rom can be
/dev/cdrom
/dev/cdrom1
/dev/hdc
etc.

The second word for the CD-rom can be
/media/cdrom0
/mnt/cdrom
/mnt/cdrom1
etc.

In other words, there is a space here for Richard to remind us of the 
lack of standardization in Linux again, even between updates of the same 
distro!


Perhaps all this emphasises the practical necessity of Rev adopting my 
suggestion of a single or limited set of distros for its "seal of 
approval". However, this would only be appropriate after Rev Linux is in 
a more stable and complete state. Or should both things be done together?


Bob


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Re: Internal security of Rev?

2006-07-11 Thread John Tregea

Thanks Chipp and Troy,

I have looked at the encryption that is built into Rev and it seems very 
robust in terms of encrypting data. But I have to save the bit length, 
encryption type and key string (128 byte character string) inside rev to 
be able to un-encrypt the data coming back from the database. I have 
base64encoded them in my trials (and stuck them in custom properties) 
but know that the syntax in the scripts spells out where to get the info 
and how to decode it.


Like putting a big padlock on the door with a note stuck to it saying 
"the key is under the mat".



John

Troy Rollins wrote:


On Jul 11, 2006, at 9:49 PM, John Tregea wrote:

Our application will be used to front end a database that contains 
classified information, the initial login account details would have 
to be stored in the Rev application (inside custom properties


IIRC, a couple of years back I planned to use custom properties for 
this sort of thing. As I remember it, that had to be ditched because 
custom properties ended up as plain text, easily readable by dropping 
the stack file on a text editor. I think we pulled the properties into 
script and populated them at runtime, which gave a marginally more 
secure feeling.


To this day I still don't know of a very good way to handle this in 
Rev produced apps. I'm all ears.


--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


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Re: Dependence on Programming Experts

2006-07-11 Thread Dan Shafer

I for one wish Rev had never compromised and begun using the equal sign as
an assignment operator. Many (perhaps most) other languages disambiguate the
confusing uses by some artificial construct. In Pascal, e.g., assignment is
:=. In C/C++ as I recall, equality is testred with == and some special type
of equality is ===. Just syntactical crap.

As Richard says, if this is an optional addition to the language, I guess
I'd grudgingly -- VERY darned grudgingly -- look the other way. But I'd hold
my nose at the same time.

On 7/11/06, John Tregea <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


-- continue thread even further

put 1 into x

Point x: I am not a programming expert
Point x = x + 1:   but some things seem to make my world harder to
understand
Point x = x + 1:   and it is hard enough already
Point x = x + 1:   you get my point?

Isn't it likely that the number 5 represents a count of something, i.e. ;

the number of buttons in a group
the number of working days in the week
the number of cups of coffee I drank this morning
the number of lines in a text field etc.

I would almost never use the number itself, rather I find the way of
describing the thing being counted and use the language to get the count
initially. Then I would use gGroupedBtns or tMyCoffees as the variable
name so I can remember what I was counting when I reference it later in
my code.

-- end of abstract thinking about abstract concepts

tMyCoffees = tMyCoffees + 1 (ahhh... that's better)

John T



Sarah Reichelt wrote:
> On 7/12/06, Josh Mellicker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> I have found Rev extremely intuitive except for one thing:
>>
>> I wish it would parse
>>
>> x = 5
>>
>> (if not following an IF)
>>
>> the same as
>>
>> put 5 into x
>>
>
> I would like this for speed of scriptiing reasons, but not for logic
> reasons - if that makes sense. It would be much faster to type "x = 5"
> than "put 5 into x" but less logical.
>
> When I first started to learn programming (many years ago), I came
> across a line like this:
>x = x + 1
>
> My eyes glazed over as I tried to work out what they meant by this
> obviously false statement! How can anything be equal to itself plus 1
> - that's just crazy. So I'm happy to stick to "put 5 into x" and "add
> 1 to x" :-)
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah
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>
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--
~~
Dan Shafer, Information Product Consultant and Author
http://www.shafermedia.com
Get my book, "Revolution: Software at the Speed of Thought"

From http://www.shafermediastore.com/tech_main.html

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Re: Internal security of Rev?

2006-07-11 Thread Troy Rollins


On Jul 11, 2006, at 9:49 PM, John Tregea wrote:

Our application will be used to front end a database that contains  
classified information, the initial login account details would  
have to be stored in the Rev application (inside custom properties


IIRC, a couple of years back I planned to use custom properties for  
this sort of thing. As I remember it, that had to be ditched because  
custom properties ended up as plain text, easily readable by dropping  
the stack file on a text editor. I think we pulled the properties  
into script and populated them at runtime, which gave a marginally  
more secure feeling.


To this day I still don't know of a very good way to handle this in  
Rev produced apps. I'm all ears.


--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


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Re: quicktime 3D

2006-07-11 Thread Troy Rollins


On Jul 11, 2006, at 10:12 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:


You can create QTVR directly from Vue-I. I find Vue's product line
extremely easy to use and it performs well and has a nice upgrade
path. In fact, this week I'm the 'featured artist' at the Sci-Fi
Channels website where one of my Vue images is displayed:


Awesome. Congrats.

I just recently started using Vue Infinite. It is really a nice  
package, but I find the interface not up to par with the  
functionality, at least on OSX... but it seems to be the same on XP  
as well. Not enough contrast in the buttons, limited window  
configuration. But I can't complain - I got it with my Lightwave 9  
upgrade!


--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


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Re: Dependence on Programming Experts

2006-07-11 Thread John Tregea
Actually, this article is quite relevant to this thread in a way... It 
highlights how differently we all think (hardwired or not I don't know) 
and therefore why this string can go on for ever. I suspect that 
different approaches to expressing the abstract stuff of computer 
programming suit different ones of us and the way our brains work.


http://www.grandin.com/references/thinking.animals.html

Cheers again

John T

Judy Perry wrote:

And, indeed, I think that THAT's the hallmark of the 'seductive'
environment of which Dan speaks.

It seems to be, of necessity, a carrot and stick thing:  something draws
you in makes you happy/productive, and then willing to conquer the stick.

Judy

On Wed, 5 Jul 2006, J. Landman Gay wrote:

  

I had to smile at this, mostly because I remember you going through it.
Congrats, Garrett, you've crossed over. :) Your learning curve was
pretty classic. First you hate it, then you start to see possibilities,
then you "get it", then the world's your oyster. Takes a few weeks, but
is well worth it.

But as Greg says, not everyone wants to be a programmer. I'm not sure
how Rev could dumb itself down enough to do what Greg wants without any
programming at all. I think Media with its templates is a step in the
right direction, but Rev is definitely a programming environment and
without at least some scripting it can only do so much.



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Re: Dependence on Programming Experts

2006-07-11 Thread John Tregea

-- continue thread even further

put 1 into x

Point x: I am not a programming expert
Point x = x + 1:   but some things seem to make my world harder to 
understand

Point x = x + 1:   and it is hard enough already
Point x = x + 1:   you get my point?

Isn't it likely that the number 5 represents a count of something, i.e. ;

the number of buttons in a group
the number of working days in the week
the number of cups of coffee I drank this morning
the number of lines in a text field etc.

I would almost never use the number itself, rather I find the way of 
describing the thing being counted and use the language to get the count 
initially. Then I would use gGroupedBtns or tMyCoffees as the variable 
name so I can remember what I was counting when I reference it later in 
my code.


-- end of abstract thinking about abstract concepts

tMyCoffees = tMyCoffees + 1 (ahhh... that's better)

John T



Sarah Reichelt wrote:

On 7/12/06, Josh Mellicker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I have found Rev extremely intuitive except for one thing:

I wish it would parse

x = 5

(if not following an IF)

the same as

put 5 into x



I would like this for speed of scriptiing reasons, but not for logic
reasons - if that makes sense. It would be much faster to type "x = 5"
than "put 5 into x" but less logical.

When I first started to learn programming (many years ago), I came
across a line like this:
   x = x + 1

My eyes glazed over as I tried to work out what they meant by this
obviously false statement! How can anything be equal to itself plus 1
- that's just crazy. So I'm happy to stick to "put 5 into x" and "add
1 to x" :-)

Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: Dependence on Programming Experts

2006-07-11 Thread Troy Rollins


On Jul 11, 2006, at 10:02 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:


The other issue is regarding maintenance and readability for OTHER
programmers. If there's this arcane 'other' way of doing something, it
may make it more difficult.


But this is a case where the syntax exist with Rev NOW, but not  
within this context.


It is REALLY at odds with itself when...

local x = 5 // is legal, and perfectly normal
x = 5 // is not, and is an unthinkable construction


--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


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Re: quicktime 3D

2006-07-11 Thread Chipp Walters

On 7/11/06, Lynn Fredricks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Im sure Chipp
also has a word or two to say about Vue :-)


Lynn, of course you are right!
You can create QTVR directly from Vue-I. I find Vue's product line
extremely easy to use and it performs well and has a nice upgrade
path. In fact, this week I'm the 'featured artist' at the Sci-Fi
Channels website where one of my Vue images is displayed:

http://www.scifi.com/sfw/

There are more at:

http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/vuelab/FutureLab.htm

best,
Chipp
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Re: Internal security of Rev?

2006-07-11 Thread Chipp Walters

John,

I'm no cryptographer, but I would guess cracking Rev's password
protected code wouldn't be too awfully hard. Mainly this is because
you can expect to find multiple occurrences of strings like "on
mouseUp". I'm not suggesting any novice could crack it, but I imagine
someone with some decent tools and a bit of time could get in.

You could probably get a more learned opinion from Dar Scott or
someone with more cryptography chops than I have.

Just my opinion,
Chipp
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Re: Dependence on Programming Experts

2006-07-11 Thread Chipp Walters

On 7/11/06, Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


I think Troy's on to something very important there.

The key thing to remember with this proposed addition is that it's an
ADDITION, and OPTION that one can CHOOSE to use if they like, or not if
they don't.


Hi Richard,

I'm not wholly on board with that line of thought. Frankly, IMHO,
Rev's verbose enough, w/out having to remember all the other possible
names for doing things, etc.. In fact, last I checked, the number of
tokens was up over 1000. Very difficult for new users to learn 1000
tokens indeed.

The other issue is regarding maintenance and readability for OTHER
programmers. If there's this arcane 'other' way of doing something, it
may make it more difficult.

Lastly, at some point, adding new synonym tokens takes up resources.
Programming resources of Rev, memory resources for the engine, speed
of the engine's parsing, etc..

Though Troy's particular issue is certainly a good one (try switching
back and forth from VB to Rev!), adding a multitude of synonyms and
vernacular, IMO, only creates further road blocks to learning the
language.

best as always,
Chipp
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Re: Dependence on Programming Experts

2006-07-11 Thread Sarah Reichelt

On 7/12/06, Josh Mellicker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

I have found Rev extremely intuitive except for one thing:

I wish it would parse

x = 5

(if not following an IF)

the same as

put 5 into x



I would like this for speed of scriptiing reasons, but not for logic
reasons - if that makes sense. It would be much faster to type "x = 5"
than "put 5 into x" but less logical.

When I first started to learn programming (many years ago), I came
across a line like this:
   x = x + 1

My eyes glazed over as I tried to work out what they meant by this
obviously false statement! How can anything be equal to itself plus 1
- that's just crazy. So I'm happy to stick to "put 5 into x" and "add
1 to x" :-)

Cheers,
Sarah
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Internal security of Rev?

2006-07-11 Thread John Tregea

Hi all,

I have evaluated Rev a couple of times across the last few version 
releases and feel quite satisfied that it will enable us to achieve the 
things we want in terms of commercial product development.


I have a question about the readability of the scripts "source code" of 
an application once it is built as a standalone. I have seen the 
"encrypt with password" option in the standalone settings but want to 
know if anyone can tell me how secure this option is.


Our application will be used to front end a database that contains 
classified information, the initial login account details would have to 
be stored in the Rev application (inside custom properties ?). I know I 
can base64encode the username and password for the database before 
putting them into the custom properties, but if someone is able to read 
my script, they could discover which custom properties I use and how to 
decode the information. This would eventually lead them to a direct 
connection to the database and the potential for SQL injection attacks 
etc. on the back end.


Other steps I intend to take is to put the front end rev application on 
a U3 drive and encode the drive serial number uniquely into the rev app 
to stop it being copied and run from another location (effective copy 
protection, I hope). I also thought to measure the available space on 
the volume [diskSpace] where the application is first installed (U3 
drive) and check it each time the application launches (quitting if the 
disk space is greater than the original space on the initial installed 
USB device).


Any other experiences/ideas/suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

If all is OK, then I can get the enterprise product and formally join 
your community...


Thanks and regards

John T.
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Re: Dependence on Programming Experts

2006-07-11 Thread Richard Gaskin

Troy Rollins wrote:


On Jul 11, 2006, at 8:05 PM, Mark Smith wrote:

So in Revolution, 'x = 5' is an expression that evaluates to true  
if the value held in variable x happens to be 5, and I'd imagine  
that changing this might cause all sorts of trouble. Maybe it would  
be practical to implement a pascal-type '==' assignment operator,  
but I don't know enough about the way scripts are compiled to know  
if that could happen.


I understand the historical "reasons", but the argument that it would  
mess anything up I just can't see. Like anything else, the purpose is  
within the context.


You would no sooner put

x = 5

on a line by itself for any reason other than assignment of value,  
than you would put


true

or

false

on lines by themselves. I don't see any opportunity for ambiguity of  
intention here. Director has had this syntax without problems for  
many years.


x = 5 // assignment
if x = 5 then // comparison


I think Troy's on to something very important there.

The key thing to remember with this proposed addition is that it's an 
ADDITION, and OPTION that one can CHOOSE to use if they like, or not if 
they don't.


It does no harm to the current language, and offers greater freedom for 
a wider range of programming styles.


As long as the language already supports things as arcane as Regex 
without argument, it seems silly to fight options like an assignment 
operator most of the rest of the world uses.


If it offends, one can simply not use it and - poof! -- like magic it's 
no longer an issue.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
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CD launch SLOWWWWwwwwww

2006-07-11 Thread revolution
The program is about 1.8 MB for Windows. I use the same machine (swap boot 
drives) 
to test on WinXP, Win2000, WinME, and Win98. It is my low end test machine, a 
Pentium 3 with 384 Megs of RAM. When the program (it is simply a launcher for 
another program) runs from the hard drive, it completes running in 3 to 5 
seconds 
on any of these setups. So, the code isn't running slowly. When I run it from a 
CD 
it might take 10-15 seconds on WinXP or Win2000(CD drive spun down at start). 
But 
on WinME it is taking 80 to 90 seconds to load and run. The CD is the same for 
all 
configurations and this drive can download an 8 MB file to the hard drive in 6 
seconds from a spun down start. I placed some test code in the application to 
see 
if the code was running slowly on WinME at some point. The code didn't start 
running for 80 seconds. Any ideas on how I can get this to launch faster?

Stu
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Re: Dependence on Programming Experts

2006-07-11 Thread Troy Rollins


On Jul 11, 2006, at 8:05 PM, Mark Smith wrote:

So in Revolution, 'x = 5' is an expression that evaluates to true  
if the value held in variable x happens to be 5, and I'd imagine  
that changing this might cause all sorts of trouble. Maybe it would  
be practical to implement a pascal-type '==' assignment operator,  
but I don't know enough about the way scripts are compiled to know  
if that could happen.


I understand the historical "reasons", but the argument that it would  
mess anything up I just can't see. Like anything else, the purpose is  
within the context.


You would no sooner put

x = 5

on a line by itself for any reason other than assignment of value,  
than you would put


true

or

false

on lines by themselves. I don't see any opportunity for ambiguity of  
intention here. Director has had this syntax without problems for  
many years.


x = 5 // assignment
if x = 5 then // comparison


I can't tell you how many times I've first written variable  
assignments this way in Revolution only to turn around and say "oh  
yeah...  PUT the key into the backpack...PUT 5 into x...".


Yes. Revolution coding STILL seems to me like playing text adventure  
games from the 80s.  ;-)


--
Troy
RPSystems, Ltd.
http://www.rpsystems.net


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Re: Dependence on Programming Experts

2006-07-11 Thread Mark Smith
There has been discussion here of this in the past. Some for it, some  
against. The fact is that xTalks (as far as I know) have never used  
'=' as an assignment operator, except in the one case where  
Revolution does so, when declaring a variable :


local x = 5

You could argue that since so many languages use '=' as an assignment  
operator then Revolution should too. But I like it the way it is,  
because 1) I'm used to it, and 2) it's more like what I've always  
understood '=' to mean in maths ie. thing A is equal to thing B,  
which is a statement that is either true or false.


So in Revolution, 'x = 5' is an expression that evaluates to true if  
the value held in variable x happens to be 5, and I'd imagine that  
changing this might cause all sorts of trouble. Maybe it would be  
practical to implement a pascal-type '==' assignment operator, but I  
don't know enough about the way scripts are compiled to know if that  
could happen.



best,

Mark

On 11 Jul 2006, at 22:54, Josh Mellicker wrote:


I have found Rev extremely intuitive except for one thing:

I wish it would parse

x = 5

(if not following an IF)

the same as

put 5 into x


That's the one thing I would change.

:-)


On Jul 11, 2006, at 11:23 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:


Bob Sneidar wrote:

"I was just telling someone the other day, the main draw of computer
programming is that it offers a "perfect world" where if you do
everything right, you get out of it exactly what you expect, unlike
the real world, where you can do everything right and have everything
go oh so wrong.

Computer programming is like playing with a virtual constructor kit.
We love it because building things (even virtual things) is a whole
lot of fun! Building things which other people find useful is even
more fun! Which goes to another theory I have, and that is that we
never stop being children. We just learn to handle responsibility
better."

And I am inclined to agree. However the level of abstract and  
logical thinking
required for really good computer programming requires a certain  
amount of

psychological maturity.

Now - back to my maladjusted kid!

I don't see the world of computer programming as a "psychological  
save-haven"
away from the buffettings of everyday life. After all, a brilliant  
computer
programmer who cannot pitch her/his idea to the customer/end-user  
is still
nothing more than a socially disfunctional zero; similarly, a  
brilliant computer
programmer who cannot listen and understand a customer/end-user's  
needs
 and implement them in a way that the end-user can work with is  
nothing more

than the geeky person in the psychological anorak.

What I do see, is that after 2 weeks, my maladjusted kid has, by  
managing to
produce something that works (side-scrolling 2D game at the  
moment), gained
a leevl of confidence that he managed to open his mouth to  
somebody other

than "Mummy" and "Teacher" for possibly the first time in 10 years.

I would be extremely worried if I thought that any kid,  
maladjusted or not,

who spent some time under my tutelage would end up as a mono-maniac
who had to have a mouse "surgically implanted into his hand" or could
only have conversations of the sort:

"Hi, On MouseUp, If What Then? End If"

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson



"Philosophical problems are confusions arising owing to the  
fluidity of meanings users attach to words and phrases."

   Mathewson, 2006


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Quicktime 3D

2006-07-11 Thread Stgoldberg

In a message dated 7/11/06 2:28:26 PM, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> Aha. Then it is likely they use QuickTime VR. Any idea what else can be 
> used
> to draw dynamically a 3D terrain, or several planes with textures loaded
> from images, or 3D piece of something in Rev Studio? I will still try to dig
> in QuickTime VR format. It mentions possibility to embed true 3D objects
> within prerendered scenes in their VR. Otherwise VRML and AltBrowser seem
> the only possibility... But how can I be sure that Cortona VRML client will
> load in AltBrowser? If AltBrowser embeds MS Explorer on Windows or Mozilla
> on other systems, then it is possible... Otherwise, I think, it is not,
> because Cortona VRML plugin is browser-specific. Or am I wrong here?
> 
The 3D images associated with Quicktime VR are not created within Revolution. 
  They are created with a 3D modeling program, such as Vue.   Within Vue one, 
after setting up a 3D scene, one can then create the Quicktime VR, which can 
then be imported into Revolution.
Steve Goldberg
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.medmaster.net


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RE: quicktime 3D

2006-07-11 Thread Lynn Fredricks
> Interesting... I wonder again what sort of 3D engine they use 
> to create games like Alida? Link to this game appears on 
> runrev homepage so I naturally expect it is created with Rev 
> studio. They also advertize DejavuWorld, Vue 5 Easel. But how 
> do all this 3D stuff relates with Revolution Studio - how and 
> where can I put all those 3D scenes and models ?
> Any tutorial, please ?.. 

Alida is a "Myst" style game - the graphics are all pre-rendered in a 3D
package (it their case, Strata Studio Pro) with some quicktime video
elements blended in as seemlessly as possible - along with music/sound
effects. DejavuWorld uses Revolution to create Alida. Although real time 3D
gets the lion share of attention in games nowadays, there is still a very
strong market for adventure games. Creating this kind of game means you have
to learn a bit about new types of media, but the tools available now arent
all that hard to master.

The Vue 5 Easel tutorial shows how you might set up your scenes in a product
like Vue for rendering in this sort of game. I have excellent relations with
the senior management of e-on software and they happily supplied that
tutorial. I like Vue quite a bit and use it regularly myself. Im sure Chipp
also has a word or two to say about Vue :-)

Debrill's AE adds a lot of additional value, not just for the wireframe
objects Malte is talking about, but also for object/collision and other
functions - these layer well on top of what you can achieve with Adventure
Creator.

Best regards,


Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution, Ltd


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Re: Dependence on Programming Experts

2006-07-11 Thread Josh Mellicker

I have found Rev extremely intuitive except for one thing:

I wish it would parse

x = 5

(if not following an IF)

the same as

put 5 into x


That's the one thing I would change.

:-)


On Jul 11, 2006, at 11:23 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:


Bob Sneidar wrote:

"I was just telling someone the other day, the main draw of computer
programming is that it offers a "perfect world" where if you do
everything right, you get out of it exactly what you expect, unlike
the real world, where you can do everything right and have everything
go oh so wrong.

Computer programming is like playing with a virtual constructor kit.
We love it because building things (even virtual things) is a whole
lot of fun! Building things which other people find useful is even
more fun! Which goes to another theory I have, and that is that we
never stop being children. We just learn to handle responsibility
better."

And I am inclined to agree. However the level of abstract and  
logical thinking
required for really good computer programming requires a certain  
amount of

psychological maturity.

Now - back to my maladjusted kid!

I don't see the world of computer programming as a "psychological  
save-haven"
away from the buffettings of everyday life. After all, a brilliant  
computer
programmer who cannot pitch her/his idea to the customer/end-user  
is still
nothing more than a socially disfunctional zero; similarly, a  
brilliant computer
programmer who cannot listen and understand a customer/end-user's  
needs
 and implement them in a way that the end-user can work with is  
nothing more

than the geeky person in the psychological anorak.

What I do see, is that after 2 weeks, my maladjusted kid has, by  
managing to
produce something that works (side-scrolling 2D game at the  
moment), gained
a leevl of confidence that he managed to open his mouth to somebody  
other

than "Mummy" and "Teacher" for possibly the first time in 10 years.

I would be extremely worried if I thought that any kid, maladjusted  
or not,

who spent some time under my tutelage would end up as a mono-maniac
who had to have a mouse "surgically implanted into his hand" or could
only have conversations of the sort:

"Hi, On MouseUp, If What Then? End If"

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson



"Philosophical problems are confusions arising owing to the  
fluidity of meanings users attach to words and phrases."

   Mathewson, 2006


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Re: quicktime 3D

2006-07-11 Thread Josh Mellicker

I think Bryce exports QTVR.

http://bryce.daz3d.com/55index.php



On Jul 11, 2006, at 3:27 AM, Viktoras Didziulis wrote:

Aha. Then it is likely they use QuickTime VR. Any idea what else  
can be used
to draw dynamically a 3D terrain, or several planes with textures  
loaded
from images, or 3D piece of something in Rev Studio? I will still  
try to dig
in QuickTime VR format. It mentions possibility to embed true 3D  
objects
within prerendered scenes in their VR. Otherwise VRML and  
AltBrowser seem
the only possibility... But how can I be sure that Cortona VRML  
client will
load in AltBrowser? If AltBrowser embeds MS Explorer on Windows or  
Mozilla
on other systems, then it is possible... Otherwise, I think, it is  
not,

because Cortona VRML plugin is browser-specific. Or am I wrong here?

All the best and thanks for your replies!
Viktoras
---Original Message---

From: Malte Brill
Date: 07/11/06 13:05:54
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: Re: quicktime 3D

Hi Viktoras



I wonder again what sort of 3D engine they use to create games like
Alida?



Those are pre rendered images. Any 3d program will do to create
those. Images are rendered beforehand and then imported into Rev. Rev
is used as "glue" and to add interactivity.

All the best,

Malte
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Re: document icon problems on OSX

2006-07-11 Thread Devin Asay

Josh,

I'm not the expert on this matter, but I can throw out a couple of  
ideas that may help you.


1. Even when Rev successfully uses your custom icon it does not  
rename the .icns file in the bundle Content/Resources folder. It's  
always called Revolution.icns.


2. Check the creator type in your standalone settings for OS X. If  
you are using the creator code  (the default, I think) it may  
always show as generic app icon. You might try to see what happens if  
you register a creator code with apple and recompile using the new  
creator code. (See .)


3. Does the icon show up okay if you copy the file to another machine  
where it has never existed? If so, there may be some kind of caching  
issue on your Mac.


4. There is some way to delete the application DB on your OS X  
system, but I've forgotten how to do it (anyone know?) That might fix  
it.


5. I may be completely out to lunch.

HTH

Devin

On Jul 11, 2006, at 2:45 PM, Josh Mellicker wrote:

 painful details 


RESULT: the icon is the generic OS X app icon



Heeellp!



Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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Re: document icon problems on OSX

2006-07-11 Thread Josh Mellicker

I am also having icon problems:

 




1.  I choose a (verified valid) icns file in the Standalone  
Application Settings dialog


2. build the standalone


RESULT: the icon is the generic OS X app icon.

 




Tried these four tricks:

My favorite method is to Get Info on your new app, click on the icon  
in the little box, and hit the delete key. They forces the Finder to  
update the file's appearance.


Another method is to zip the file, throw away the original, and then  
unzip. The Finder will update the icon when the app is decompressed.


A third method is to issue an AppleScript command. The command is  
"update" and you provide a file path.


You can force the icon to update in the finder by Option dragging a  
copy of the application you made.  It will duplicate the app and show  
the correct icon.  You then delete the original file and rename  
the .copy version appropriately.


RESULT: the icon is the generic OS X app icon.

 




MORE INFO:

The Info.plist file says (in part):

CFBundleTypeIconFile
RevolutionDoc.icns


CFBundleIconFile
Revolution.icns


so apparently Rev is not saving the name of my custom icon in the  
Info.plist file.


 




Looking in the Resources folder shows:

Revolution.icns
RevolutionDoc.icns


so apparently Rev is not saving the custom icons in the package.

 



WORKAROUND ATTEMPT:

1.  choose "Use None" in the Standalone Application Settings dialog

2. build standalone

RESULT: the icon is the generic OS X app icon


3. force the icon to update in the finder by Option dragging a copy  
of the application you made


RESULT: the icon is the blue "R"


4. rename my icon to Revolution.icns and replace the Rev icon

RESULT: the icon is the generic OS X app icon


5. Try the 4 tricks above

RESULT: the icon is the generic OS X app icon



Heeellp!

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Re: Dependence on Programming Experts

2006-07-11 Thread Richmond Mathewson
Bob Sneidar wrote:

"I was just telling someone the other day, the main draw of computer
programming is that it offers a "perfect world" where if you do
everything right, you get out of it exactly what you expect, unlike
the real world, where you can do everything right and have everything
go oh so wrong.

Computer programming is like playing with a virtual constructor kit.  
We love it because building things (even virtual things) is a whole  
lot of fun! Building things which other people find useful is even  
more fun! Which goes to another theory I have, and that is that we  
never stop being children. We just learn to handle responsibility  
better."

And I am inclined to agree. However the level of abstract and logical thinking 
required for really good computer programming requires a certain amount of
psychological maturity.

Now - back to my maladjusted kid!

I don't see the world of computer programming as a "psychological save-haven"
away from the buffettings of everyday life. After all, a brilliant computer 
programmer who cannot pitch her/his idea to the customer/end-user is still
nothing more than a socially disfunctional zero; similarly, a brilliant computer
programmer who cannot listen and understand a customer/end-user's needs
 and implement them in a way that the end-user can work with is nothing more
than the geeky person in the psychological anorak.

What I do see, is that after 2 weeks, my maladjusted kid has, by managing to
produce something that works (side-scrolling 2D game at the moment), gained
a leevl of confidence that he managed to open his mouth to somebody other
than "Mummy" and "Teacher" for possibly the first time in 10 years.

I would be extremely worried if I thought that any kid, maladjusted or not,
who spent some time under my tutelage would end up as a mono-maniac
who had to have a mouse "surgically implanted into his hand" or could
only have conversations of the sort:

"Hi, On MouseUp, If What Then? End If"

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson



"Philosophical problems are confusions arising owing to the fluidity of 
meanings users attach to words and phrases."
   Mathewson, 2006


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Re: Looking for a solution....

2006-07-11 Thread Josh Mellicker
Just wanted to say I've put in a lot of time with Mambo (Joomla's  
predecessor) with mixed to poor results, switched to Wordpress as a  
CMS and it totally rocks!



On Jul 11, 2006, at 9:05 AM, Bill Marriott wrote:


5) Use a content-management system like Joomla (or dozens of  
others) to
build your entire site. These CMS systems almost always offer a  
built-in

search facility for the content you're managing with them.

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Re: Auto Baud Rate Detection

2006-07-11 Thread Camm29
Thanks  , i will try

- Original Message -
From: "Ben Rubinstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 5:46 PM
Subject: Re: Auto Baud Rate Detection


> On 11/7/06 17:22, Camm29 wrote:
> > Need to automatically detect and set one of two Baud Rates for Com
Ports.
> > 9600 or 2400.
> >
> > The device will respond to "Hello" with "Okay" if the Baud is correct.
>
> Have your code open the port with one baud rate, test it, if it doesn't
get
> "Okay" in reponse to "Hello", then close the port and reopen with the
other
> baud rate.
>
> I have a similar case - it knows what the baud rate is, and what a
response
> looks like, but not which port the device might be on - my app effectively
> does the same thing, except that instead of changing the baud rate on each
> test it changes the port.  That works fine, I would expect this would work
in
> your case too.
>
>Ben Rubinstein   |  Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>Cognitive Applications Ltd   |  Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600
>http://www.cogapp.com|  Fax  : +44 (0)1273-728866
>
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>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.0.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/384 - Release Date: 10/07/2006
>
>

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Re: Auto Baud Rate Detection

2006-07-11 Thread Ben Rubinstein

On 11/7/06 17:22, Camm29 wrote:

Need to automatically detect and set one of two Baud Rates for Com Ports.
9600 or 2400.

The device will respond to "Hello" with "Okay" if the Baud is correct.


Have your code open the port with one baud rate, test it, if it doesn't get 
"Okay" in reponse to "Hello", then close the port and reopen with the other 
baud rate.


I have a similar case - it knows what the baud rate is, and what a response 
looks like, but not which port the device might be on - my app effectively 
does the same thing, except that instead of changing the baud rate on each 
test it changes the port.  That works fine, I would expect this would work in 
your case too.


  Ben Rubinstein   |  Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  Cognitive Applications Ltd   |  Phone: +44 (0)1273-821600
  http://www.cogapp.com|  Fax  : +44 (0)1273-728866

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Auto Baud Rate Detection

2006-07-11 Thread Camm29
Need to automatically detect and set one of two Baud Rates for Com Ports.
9600 or 2400.

The device will respond to "Hello" with "Okay" if the Baud is correct.

Regards


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Re: SPAM

2006-07-11 Thread Camm29
You must have subscribed to get them ??


- Original Message -
From: "Patrick Garcia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 9:37 AM
Subject: SPAM


> i dont want theses mails. Stupid SPAM
>
>
> ___
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>
>
> --
> No virus found in this incoming message.
> Checked by AVG Free Edition.
> Version: 7.0.394 / Virus Database: 268.9.10/384 - Release Date: 10/07/2006
>
>

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Re: Looking for a solution....

2006-07-11 Thread Bill Marriott
I forgot one other option (or, really it's a sub-option under #3) which is:

5) Use a content-management system like Joomla (or dozens of others) to 
build your entire site. These CMS systems almost always offer a built-in 
search facility for the content you're managing with them.

"Bill Marriott" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in message 
news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Dale,
>
> You have several options:
>
> 1) Yes, Rev can do it. You would install Rev as a CGI, then put your data 
> back into Rev so its search functions can access the data and deliver it 
> to the end user.
>
> 2) Some web hosting providers have one or more search utilities built-in 
> to them, such as "Entropy Search." Check your web control panel (perhaps 
> under something like "One-Click Installs" or "Fantastico.")
>
> 3) You can make your site database-driven using a system like MySQL & PHP.
>
> 4) You can have an external web search provider, such as Google, handle 
> your site for you. This is just one of many pages I found on the topic:
>
> http://www.askdavetaylor.com/how_can_i_add_a_google_search_box_to_my_web_site.html
>
>
> "Dale Pond" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in 
> message 
> news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>>I am looking for an answer. I'd like to convert all cards in a  collection 
>>of HyperCard stacks to text files then upload them to a  folder/directory 
>>on my web site. These steps I can do. The question  is how can all these 
>>text/html files (roughly 15,000 of 'em) be  searched and found? What kind 
>>of indexing/searching system would do  that? Could Revolution do this? 
>>Does anyone have a solution for this?



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Re: Looking for a solution....

2006-07-11 Thread Bill Marriott
Dale,

You have several options:

1) Yes, Rev can do it. You would install Rev as a CGI, then put your data 
back into Rev so its search functions can access the data and deliver it to 
the end user.

2) Some web hosting providers have one or more search utilities built-in to 
them, such as "Entropy Search." Check your web control panel (perhaps under 
something like "One-Click Installs" or "Fantastico.")

3) You can make your site database-driven using a system like MySQL & PHP.

4) You can have an external web search provider, such as Google, handle your 
site for you. This is just one of many pages I found on the topic:

http://www.askdavetaylor.com/how_can_i_add_a_google_search_box_to_my_web_site.html


"Dale Pond" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote in 
message news:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
>I am looking for an answer. I'd like to convert all cards in a  collection 
>of HyperCard stacks to text files then upload them to a  folder/directory 
>on my web site. These steps I can do. The question  is how can all these 
>text/html files (roughly 15,000 of 'em) be  searched and found? What kind 
>of indexing/searching system would do  that? Could Revolution do this? Does 
>anyone have a solution for this?



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Looking for a solution....

2006-07-11 Thread Dale Pond
I am looking for an answer. I'd like to convert all cards in a  
collection of HyperCard stacks to text files then upload them to a  
folder/directory on my web site. These steps I can do. The question  
is how can all these text/html files (roughly 15,000 of 'em) be  
searched and found? What kind of indexing/searching system would do  
that? Could Revolution do this? Does anyone have a solution for this?


Life, Light, Love & Laughter,
Dale Pond
Sympathetic Vibratory Physics
http://www.svpvril.com/


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Re: quicktime 3D

2006-07-11 Thread Viktoras Didziulis
Aha. Then it is likely they use QuickTime VR. Any idea what else can be used
to draw dynamically a 3D terrain, or several planes with textures loaded
from images, or 3D piece of something in Rev Studio? I will still try to dig
in QuickTime VR format. It mentions possibility to embed true 3D objects
within prerendered scenes in their VR. Otherwise VRML and AltBrowser seem
the only possibility... But how can I be sure that Cortona VRML client will
load in AltBrowser? If AltBrowser embeds MS Explorer on Windows or Mozilla
on other systems, then it is possible... Otherwise, I think, it is not,
because Cortona VRML plugin is browser-specific. Or am I wrong here? 
 
All the best and thanks for your replies! 
Viktoras 
---Original Message--- 
 
From: Malte Brill 
Date: 07/11/06 13:05:54 
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com 
Subject: Re: quicktime 3D 
 
Hi Viktoras 
 
 
> I wonder again what sort of 3D engine they use to create games like 
> Alida? 
 
 
Those are pre rendered images. Any 3d program will do to create 
those. Images are rendered beforehand and then imported into Rev. Rev 
is used as "glue" and to add interactivity. 
 
All the best, 
 
Malte 
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Re: quicktime 3D

2006-07-11 Thread Malte Brill

Hi Viktoras


I wonder again what sort of 3D engine they use to create games like  
Alida?



Those are pre rendered images. Any 3d program will do to create  
those. Images are rendered beforehand and then imported into Rev. Rev  
is used as "glue" and to add interactivity.


All the best,

Malte
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Re: quicktime 3D

2006-07-11 Thread Viktoras Didziulis
Interesting... I wonder again what sort of 3D engine they use to create
games like Alida? Link to this game appears on runrev homepage so I
naturally expect it is created with Rev studio. They also advertize
DejavuWorld, Vue 5 Easel. But how do all this 3D stuff relates with
Revolution Studio - how and where can I put all those 3D scenes and models ?
Any tutorial, please ?.. 
 
All the best! 
Viktoras 
 
---Original Message--- 
 
From: Malte Brill 
Date: 07/11/06 12:36:30 
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com 
Subject: Re: quicktime 3D 
 
Hi Victoras, 
 
> If not, possibly arcade engine is the only way to go, as it is 
> quite difficult to find even a description of 3D formats used by 
> quicktime. 
 
The 3D support in AE is very basic until now. What you can do is 
display wireframe models made from pointlists. 
 
eg: 
 
0,0,0 
50,0,0 
50,50,0 
etc. 
 
You can then use AE to display these pointlists as wire frames in 2d 
space, either in 3d or isometric view. You can rotate the model 
around the x,y and z-axes. AE does these calculations very fast. I 
have successfully converted rotator Models for use in Rev. However 
the 3d support in AE is in very early state. I am looking more into 
this area to make using it more pleasant. I just want to point that 
out, to give an honest opinion what AE could do to help and that you 
don´t expect too much when you are trying it out. 
 
Hope that helps, 
 
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Re: quicktime 3D

2006-07-11 Thread Malte Brill

Hi Victoras,

If not, possibly arcade engine is the only way to go, as it is  
quite difficult to find even a description of 3D formats used by  
quicktime.


The 3D support in AE is very basic until now. What you can do is  
display wireframe models made from pointlists.


eg:

0,0,0
50,0,0
50,50,0
etc.

You can then use AE to display these pointlists as wire frames in 2d  
space, either in 3d or isometric view. You can rotate the model  
around the x,y and z-axes. AE does these calculations very fast. I  
have successfully converted rotator Models for use in Rev. However  
the 3d support in AE is in very early state. I am looking more into  
this area to make using it more pleasant. I just want to point that  
out, to  give an honest opinion what AE could do to help and that you  
don´t expect too much when you are trying it out.


Hope that helps,

Malte___
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Re: quicktime 3D

2006-07-11 Thread Viktoras Didziulis
Thanks Henk! 
 
VRML would be the easiest choice. I wonder is there any way to embed VRML
directly into application without using an embeded browser... If not,
possibly arcade engine is the only way to go, as it is quite difficult to
find even a description of 3D formats used by quicktime. 3dmf seemed like
something to grasp on, but the suddenly it appeared that my new quicktime
has no idea what these files are for ;-) 
 
Best regards 
Viktoras 
 
---Original Message--- 
 
From: Henk van der Velden 
Date: 07/11/06 11:09:22 
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com 
Subject: Re: quicktime 3D 
 
Hello Viktoras, 
 
You could take a look at AXELedge, www.mindavenue.com (ahem, I just 
saw that AXELedge is no longer available..) 
They have a QT plugin that allows QT player to play interactive 3D 
content. However, I don't know whether it's possible to create .axs 
files on the fly. 
 
Another option is FBX for QuickTime (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/ 
servlet/index?id=6837478&siteID=123112). I have never used that, but 
maybe someone else can tell you more about this. 
 
If you want to create 3D surfaces out of a collection of data, maybe 
VRML / X3D is a better option (http://www.web3d.org/x3d/). X3D's file 
format is XML, so it would be easy to create these files on the fly. 
These files can be played in a web browser using plug ins (for 
example Cortona VRML client: http://www.parallelgraphics.com/products/ 
cortona/ - supports only VRML however, no X3D; but VRML is also a 
text based file format). So the best thing would probably be to use 
altBrowser to display web pages inside Revolution, and have your 3D 
files played in the web page. 
 
Kind regards, 
Henk 
 
On 10-jul-2006, at 18:23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 
> From: "Viktoras Didziulis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> Date: 10 juli 2006 17:12:44 GMT+02:00 
> To: "How to use Revolution"  
> Subject: quicktime 3D 
> Reply-To: How to use Revolution  
> 
> 
> can anyone suggest a method to put 3d shape into a quicktime pane. 
> What I 
> want to do is to generate 3d landscape from data and put it 
> there... Is this 
> possible ? What data format should I use? How? 
> 
> Thanks in advance! 
> Viktoras 
 
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SPAM

2006-07-11 Thread Patrick Garcia

i dont want theses mails. Stupid SPAM


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Re: determining a plain text file

2006-07-11 Thread Mark Smith
Jim, I certainly am not deprecating the use of RegEx - it clearly is  
just as powerful as you say. My point was the 'exponentially slower'  
on long strings -  if one is going to write a function to be called  
many times, or applied to arbitrarily long strings, the more lines of  
code approach may be more appropriate. As you say, 'in the right place'.


Best,

Mark

On 11 Jul 2006, at 01:00, Jim Ault wrote:

The use of RegEx is very powerful in the right place.  The basic  
idea is
that the PCRE engine will travel through a block of text applying  
rules

rather than simply doing character comparisons.

Short strings are fast and longer ones exponentially slower.  The  
reason for
this is usually that RegEx is a way of looking at patterns and  
character

types/classes rather than specific characters.


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Re: quicktime 3D

2006-07-11 Thread Henk van der Velden

Hello Viktoras,

You could take a look at AXELedge, www.mindavenue.com (ahem, I just  
saw that AXELedge is no longer available..)
They have a QT plugin that allows QT player to play interactive 3D  
content. However, I don't know whether it's possible to create .axs  
files on the fly.


Another option is FBX for QuickTime (http://usa.autodesk.com/adsk/ 
servlet/index?id=6837478&siteID=123112). I have never used that, but  
maybe someone else can tell you more about this.


If you want to create 3D surfaces out of a collection of data, maybe  
VRML / X3D is a better option (http://www.web3d.org/x3d/). X3D's file  
format is XML, so it would be easy to create these files on the fly.  
These files can be played in a web browser using plug ins (for  
example Cortona VRML client: http://www.parallelgraphics.com/products/ 
cortona/ - supports only VRML however, no X3D; but VRML is also a  
text based file format). So the best thing would probably be to use  
altBrowser to display web pages inside Revolution, and have your 3D  
files played in the web page.


Kind regards,
Henk

On 10-jul-2006, at 18:23, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


From: "Viktoras Didziulis" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: 10 juli 2006 17:12:44 GMT+02:00
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Subject: quicktime 3D
Reply-To: How to use Revolution 


can anyone suggest a method to put 3d shape into a quicktime pane.   
What I
want to do is to generate 3d landscape from data and put it  
there... Is this

possible ? What data format should I use? How?

Thanks in advance!
Viktoras


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