Re: Need for Speed (postscript)

[Jim Ault]

On 7/15/07 8:37 PM, "Ludovic Thébault" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 20:58:32 +0100, Beynon, Rob wrote:
> 
> Hello, try to append the result to a file, it's a lot faster :

Caution:  My limited experience with appending to log files is that the
larger the file size, the slower the append.   Files over 4 Mb would show an
observable effect, and over 10 Mb rendered my apps useless.  Of course, I
did not intend to write such large files, but after setting the wheels in
motion, the log files kept growing.  Ooops.

This is especially true in a repeat loop.

answer folder "location of outputData file"
if it is empty then exit to top
put it into pathh
put ("file:"& pathh & the seconds & "outputData.txt") into outFileName
--now each output data file will have a unique name

repeat for each line LNN in textInput
if LNN contains "good data" then write LNN & cr after url outFileName
--this will go slower-er and slower-er
end repeat

---

A database would not have this limitation, unless it could not handle the
number of records that would be written.

Caution on use of fields to display very large text blocks.  Although it is
possible, it may not be the best way to view and work with the results.
Remember, if it is in a stack in memory, it is all loaded in RAM.

Further, think about what you are going to try to do with the valuable
result (stats, summary report, sort, extract, sets and subsets) and how many
programs could handle this number of lines/records efficiently or at all.


Jim Ault
Las Vegas

On 7/15/07 8:37 PM, "Ludovic Thébault" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 20:58:32 +0100, Beynon, Rob wrote:
> 
> Hello, try to append the result to a file, it's a lot faster :
> 
>> global seqDB
>> 
>> ON mouseUp
>> 
>> put the number of lines in field "massList" into peptides
>> 
>> put "Processing " & peptides & " masses, please wait..." into
>> field "Output"
>> 
>> put the long time into field "Start"
>> 
>>  --   put empty into outputData
> 
> ask file "Save as..."
> put it into outputdata
> open file outputData for write
> close file outpudata -- it's to create an empty file if the fle already
> exists
> open file outputdata for append
> 
>> set the tabstops of field "Output" to 120, 390, 10,20
>> 
>> put field "ppm" into ppm
>> 
>> REPEAT for each line pepMass in field "massList"
>> 
>> put "NEW SEARCH, MASS = " & pepMass & " at " & ppm & " ppm
>> error" & return after outputData
>> 
>> put  pepMass * ppm/100 into massError
>> 
>> REPEAT for each line peptide in seqDB
>> 
>> put the third word of peptide into dbMass
>> 
>>   --  IF abs(pepMass-dbMass) <= massError THEN put peptide &
>> "K" & tab & dbMass-pepMass & return after outputData
> 
> IF abs(pepMass-dbMass) <= massError THEN write peptide &
>> "K" & tab & dbMass-pepMass & return to file outputData
> 
> 
>> END REPEAT
>> 
>> put "" & return after outputData
>> 
>> END REPEAT
> read from file outputdata until eof
> close file Outputdata
> put it into fld "outputt"
>>   --  put outputData into field "Output"
>> 
>> put the long time into field "Stop"
>> 
>> END mouseUp
> 
> 
> Ludovic
> http://www.botanic06.com
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Re: Why Save the Mac Mini

[Stephen Barncard]

Have you ever tried to use a 17" laptop in an airplane? (First Class 
is cheating).  "Practical" means on how much you have put up with 
moving it around.. You can shy away from any claims you like. I just 
speak from my experience.


I beg to differ.  I use the (pre-Intel) 17" PowerBook (Apple) and 
because of what I use it for (math tutoring and educational 
development and demonstration)  I could use a smaller laptop but 
that would not be "practical" for me for the tutoring aspect and no 
more "practical" for the development and demo.  Personally, except 
for the likely price with current tech, I'd love to have a 23" 
laptop.  Makes me shy away from your other claims because you 
apparently make some assumptions about other people's uses that 
don't really hold water.




--


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -



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Re: PDF files handling

[Kay C Lan]

On 7/8/07, Jim Sims <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Thanks Jim for putting in the effort to email your mate, but as a hobbyist,
it looks a little over my head.



Any New Zealanders on the list have a sailboat??



[OT] my brother (and the company he worked for) did the computer aided
engineering stress analysis for 'One Australia', the America's cup contender
which famously broke in half off New Zealand - thereby again taking the
Australians into the record books as, not only had they been the first to
take the America's Cup from the American's, they were now the first (and
only) to sink during the event ;-)

Needless to say the team were more than angry and came looking for blood -
and huge financial compensation. The team were sat down and asked what sea
state they were sailing in, [I'm not a sailor so I don't know the exact
numbers but for arguments sake it was something like] the team replied 5.
The team were then asked to what sea state they had indicated would be the
maximum the boat was expected to withstand and therefore the design limit
the computer team had been tasked to design to. They indicated 3. The team
was asked to come back a day or so latter, at which point, free of charge,
they were shown the simulation of their boat being put through sea state 5 -
it broke in half, exactly where the real boat did!

Needless to say the team walked away with a reinforced understanding of the
old computer adage, the information you get out is only as good as the
information you put in.

I know this doesn't help you with finding a sailing partner for your mate,
but if he needs a boat designed that will snap in half, I know just the guy
for the job ;-)

[Way OT] For the most interesting comparison between religion and America's
Cup racing have a read of this:

http://www.peterballard.org/acup.html

It'll probably upset a few Kiwis and Aussies to discover they never really
won the cup.
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Re: Why Save the Mac Mini

[Chipp Walters]

On 7/15/07, Peter Alcibiades <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Look, here is what I don't get:  the combination of poor organizations,
running Rev, and Minis.  In fact, it seems positively grotesque.


Hi Peter,

I think you would agree, the Mac has long been the perceived leader in
'ease of use--ease of setup' among all PC's. That said, it is also
true they have been a huge player in the K-12 marketplace here in the
US. My daughter goes to a school which only has Macs in her grade
(5th).

For many years, Apple has donated computers to schools. Because of
this, they have garnered their fair share of loyalists there. In order
to easily add another PC to my daughter's computer class, it would
HAVE to be a Mac. More importantly, the teachers know very little of
how to configure and run Linux.

I think what Paul Looney is trying to do with his petition is to
impress upon Apple the necessity of having a low-end solution. Sure,
the Mini is not low-end by PC standards, and especially not low-end by
refurbished PC's running Linux standards, but it is a product, which,
when purchased by schools, can save a few bucks over the more
expensive Mac offerings. And some schools have no other options than
Macs for certain classrooms.

best,

Chipp
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Re: OT: my friendly blue tooth hacker

[Kay C Lan]

On 7/14/07, Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



There's the generic OS X feedback form:


But to ensure appropriate escalation it may be good to contact your
regional Apple headquarters for contact advisement.




Had a security issue with my ADC account a while back, wrote to:

[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Got a quick response.

HTH
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Re: Need for Speed (postscript)

[Ludovic Thébault]

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 20:58:32 +0100, Beynon, Rob wrote:

Hello, try to append the result to a file, it's a lot faster :

> global seqDB
> 
> ON mouseUp
> 
> put the number of lines in field "massList" into peptides
> 
> put "Processing " & peptides & " masses, please wait..." into 
> field "Output"
> 
> put the long time into field "Start"
> 
>  --   put empty into outputData

ask file "Save as..."
put it into outputdata
open file outputData for write
close file outpudata -- it's to create an empty file if the fle already 
exists
open file outputdata for append

> set the tabstops of field "Output" to 120, 390, 10,20
> 
> put field "ppm" into ppm
> 
> REPEAT for each line pepMass in field "massList"
> 
> put "NEW SEARCH, MASS = " & pepMass & " at " & ppm & " ppm 
> error" & return after outputData
> 
> put  pepMass * ppm/100 into massError
> 
> REPEAT for each line peptide in seqDB
> 
> put the third word of peptide into dbMass
> 
>   --  IF abs(pepMass-dbMass) <= massError THEN put peptide & 
> "K" & tab & dbMass-pepMass & return after outputData

IF abs(pepMass-dbMass) <= massError THEN write peptide & 
> "K" & tab & dbMass-pepMass & return to file outputData


> END REPEAT
> 
> put "" & return after outputData
> 
> END REPEAT
read from file outputdata until eof
close file Outputdata
put it into fld "outputt"
>   --  put outputData into field "Output"
> 
> put the long time into field "Stop"
> 
> END mouseUp


Ludovic
http://www.botanic06.com
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Re: Need for Speed (postscript)

[Ruslan Zasukhin]

On 16/7/07 2:10 AM, "Lynn Fredricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>> I just realized that nothing is being passed... local vars..
>> And the math is simpleI think you've got it down to the bare...
>> 
>> way faster would be accomplished by using a database to make
>> the calculations. The data would have to be uploaded to the
>> database of coursethe fastest DB appears to be Valentina...
> 
> One user just switched from mySQL to Valentina and had a x5 to x10 speed
> improvement on complex queries.

Lynn, actually much better :-)

Thorsten did report times:

mySQL   was   5 minutes
Valentina 5 seconds
 
This is x60 rate!

> Its now very easy to give Valentina a spin - there is a Valentina Community
> Server for Linux product that is completely free. However it currently
> supports only PHP 4 and PHP 5 for scripting.

-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]


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Re: RevMedia - what cant it do?

[J. Landman Gay]

David Bovill wrote:

StackRunner or the equivalent is all the user needs.


From the StackRunner web page:

NOTE: StackRunner is only to be used with Revolution Studio or 
Enterprise in order to simplify deployment of stacks. If you are using 
Revolution Media or Dreamcard, you need to use the Revolution Player (in 
fact, StackRunner cannot open stacks created in Revolution Media at all).




On 16/07/07, Mark Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


So how do you build a custom player with RevMedia?

Best,

Mark

On 16 Jul 2007, at 01:26, David Bovill wrote:

>
> True but who needs a standalone - I never use them, rather bundle
> stacks
> with custom players.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Why Save the Mac Mini

[SimPLsol]

Mick,
To whom was your letter addressed?
Paul Looney


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Re: Why Save the Mac Mini

[Mick Collins]

I beg to differ.  I use the (pre-Intel) 17" PowerBook (Apple) and because of 
what I use it for (math tutoring and educational development and demonstration) 
 I could use a smaller laptop but that would not be "practical" for me for the 
tutoring aspect and no more "practical" for the development and demo.  
Personally, except for the likely price with current tech, I'd love to have a 
23" laptop.  Makes me shy away from your other claims because you apparently 
make some assumptions about other people's uses that don't really hold water.

 
On Sunday, July 15, 2007, at 01:09PM, "Stephen Barncard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
>I think it also supports the 23 Cinema display. Unless one is editing 
>video or doing real high rez graphics, this is the biggest practical 
>size. Just as 15" is the biggest practical laptop...
>
>>OK, I signed too.  I rarely use my mini, preferring the MacBook Pro, 
>>but I still like having it.
>>
>>I thought about adding support for 30 inch Apple cinema display to 
>>the wish list (the mini currently drives a 20 inch cinema display 
>>but having it run the 30 incher would be fantastic!). However,  I'm 
>>sure that would add way too much to the cost.  I'd be happy with a 
>>dedicated graphics processor.
>>
>>On Jul 15, 2007, at 11:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>
>-- 
>
>
>stephen barncard
>s a n  f r a n c i s c o
>- - -  - - - - - - - - -
>
>
>
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Re: Why Save the Mac Mini

[SimPLsol]

 My two cents worth:  We tried for years to save Hypercard, but Apple 
wouldn't budge.  Now we have revolution, which isn't better on all accounts, 
but in 
some ways it's lots better.  Maybe letting the Mini drop will enable Apple to 
bring out another model, not better in all accounts, but, in general, better 
for a lot of people.

   -  Mick (Collins)

Or maybe they will just conclude no one is interested and make the $1200 iMac 
the entry computer.
I know they did not listen to use about HC (lied to us, in fact). But I think 
that campaign started after HC was already dropped. Perhaps there is a better 
chance here. Worth a shot:

www.petitiononline.com/macminsa/petition.html

Paul Looney


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Re: Why Save the Mac Mini

[Mick Collins]

My two cents worth:  We tried for years to save Hypercard, but Apple wouldn't 
budge.  Now we have revolution, which isn't better on all accounts, but in some 
ways it's lots better.  Maybe letting the Mini drop will enable Apple to bring 
out another model, not better in all accounts, but, in general, better for a 
lot of people.

   -  Mick (Collins)


 
On Saturday, July 14, 2007, at 11:17AM, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>Judy (Katheryn),
>Children, probably OK.
>Dog votes, phantom votes, duplicate votes, definitely not OK.
>As of this morning, only 8877 votes to go...
>When the time comes that we all need a 30" monitor just to see the opening 
>splash screen in MS Word, those monitors will be $250 or less. I hope.
>Have you been enjoying our heatwave?
>Paul Looney
>San Dimas
>PS I'm sure you have a hundred good friends, anxious to vote when they know 
>about the petition: www.petitiononline.com/macminsa/petition.html
>
>
>
>**
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>http://discover.aol.com/memed/aolcom30tour
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Re: RevMedia - what cant it do?

[David Bovill]

StackRunner or the equivalent is all the user needs.

On 16/07/07, Mark Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


So how do you build a custom player with RevMedia?

Best,

Mark

On 16 Jul 2007, at 01:26, David Bovill wrote:

>
> True but who needs a standalone - I never use them, rather bundle
> stacks
> with custom players.

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Re: RevMedia - what cant it do?

[Mark Smith]

So how do you build a custom player with RevMedia?

Best,

Mark

On 16 Jul 2007, at 01:26, David Bovill wrote:



True but who needs a standalone - I never use them, rather bundle  
stacks

with custom players.


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Re: RevMedia - what cant it do?

[David Bovill]

On 16/07/07, Lynn Fredricks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


> On the RevMedia question - there is a bunch of stuff I don't
> get - it seems you can do everything except:

-No Standalone - requires a player (and targets Windows and Mac only).



True but who needs a standalone - I never use them, rather bundle stacks
with custom players.

-Backdrop only.


Not with your own custom player

-No Database.


If you can use externals - you can use databases?

-No Interface Changes.


As far as I can tell you can pretty well do anything you want to the
interface - i can change the menubar to whatever I want, hide it even, use
any stacks and custom script editors, and define your own plugin system -
the only thing you cant do is palettes and modeless dialogs. In other words
studio, and enterprise users can create stacks and plugins for RevMedia
effectively transforming it into pretty much any appearance and
functionality.
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RE: RevMedia - what cant it do?

[Lynn Fredricks]

> On the RevMedia question - there is a bunch of stuff I don't 
> get - it seems you can do everything except:

-No Standalone - requires a player (and targets Windows and Mac only).

-Backdrop only.

-No Database.

-No Interface Changes.

-No Browser External, Fonts External.

Although you cant modify the interface, you can still use faceless libraries
like Animation Engine and externals.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution Ltd
http://www.runrev.com
 


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RE: Need for Speed (postscript)

[Lynn Fredricks]

> I just realized that nothing is being passed... local vars..
> And the math is simpleI think you've got it down to the bare...
> 
> way faster would be accomplished by using a database to make 
> the calculations. The data would have to be uploaded to the 
> database of coursethe fastest DB appears to be Valentina...

One user just switched from mySQL to Valentina and had a x5 to x10 speed
improvement on complex queries.

Its now very easy to give Valentina a spin - there is a Valentina Community
Server for Linux product that is completely free. However it currently
supports only PHP 4 and PHP 5 for scripting.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 

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Re: RevMedia - what cant it do?

[Mikey]

http://www.runrev.com/section/features.php
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Re: Why Save the Mac Mini

[Sarah Reichelt]

I am not criticizing anyone who spends their own money on the thing.  There is
no accounting for tastes.  If however its money that is devoted to a purpose
that is being spent, and one is administering the funds, buying Minis strikes
me as fiscally irresponsible to the point of immorality.


While I see your point of view Peter, IMO you are ignoring the total
cost of ownership. In my case, the amount of time needed to learn a
Linux system, administer it satisfactorily, and keep it maintained,
would vastly out-weigh the extra cost of a Mac Mini in the first
place.

Regards,
Sarah
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Re: Need for Speed (postscript)

[SimPLsol]

In a message dated 7/15/07 12:58:57 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:


> put "Processing " & peptides & " masses, please wait..." into field 
> "Output"
> 

Rob,
Try it after commenting out the line:
 --put "Processing " & peptides & " masses, please wait..." into field 
"Output"
I think you will be surprised how much of the total time it taken updating 
that field.
I will use "set cursor to busy" if possible because it takes so much less 
time, that it is often sufficient. Likewise, things that seem to require the 
busy 
cursor often run so much faster without it, that it really isn't needed.
I'd be interested in your results.
Paul Looney


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Re: Wireframe animation engine examples?

[Björnke von Gierke]

On 15 Jul 2007, at 22:27, David Bovill wrote:


...

Yes - I downloaded and searched in  in the  AE engine and demo,  
tutorials

and showcase at:

 http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine/index.php

No joy?


When you download the Trial & Documentation zip, and open the 
documentation stack (for which you do not need a license or demo), 
you'll be able to scroll down the right hand side list. select the 
second last blue entry in the list ("rotate3DPoint").
Now you'll be able to select "example" at the top of the stack (also 
blue). A wire frame jet fighter should appear. If you want to look at 
the scripts, click the small white "info" button towards the top right 
(left of the list of terms).


If you think the custom interface is too confusing, then tell that 
malte, he didn't listen to me. ;-)


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Chat with other RunRev developers:
go stack URL "http://homepage.mac.com/bvg/chatrev1.3.rev";

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Re: Need for Speed (postscript)

[Ken Ray]

On Sun, 15 Jul 2007 14:27:23 -0700, Stephen Barncard wrote:

> what about "pass by reference" being faster?

My understanding is that what you get with PBR is not necessarily an 
increase in speed, but a reduction in the amount of memory space needed 
to manipulate the data. If you use regular parameters, there is at any 
given time *two* copies of passed variables in memory - the one in the 
calling handler, and a new copy that's being examined/manipulated in 
the called handler. in PBR, the same variable is being manipulated so 
there's no copy being made.

Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/

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Re: Why Save the Mac Mini

[SimPLsol]

Peter,
No one has said that a Mini is for everyone.
But a Mini is the least expensive way to run OS X on a new computer, 
something that is not at all possible with a PIII. It has the additional 
advantage for 
people developing on Rev that it will also run Windows and UNIX - so it is a 
nice "test mule".
The Mini makes it possible for people switching to OS X to do so while 
continuing to use their current keyboards, mice, and monitors - a substantial 
savings over buying an iMac.
There are good used computers, both Mac and PC, that are very cost-effective 
for many organizations. Indeed, many of the businesses I work with routinely 
buy "refurbished" Macs from Power Max in Lake Oswego, Oregon. Picture the 
bargains when people start upgrading their current Mini-powered workstations 
and 
used Minis flood the market.
As the most affordable new modular Mac, the Mini allows businesses which need 
to upgrade regularly, a way to do so twice as often (the first Mini costs 
about the same as an all-in-one iMac, but the upgrade only requires replacing 
the 
Mini - at about half the cost of a current iMac). Even if a Mini's specs 
trail those of the current iMac, an owner only needs to keep it half as long.
Looking ahead: when PIIIs are no longer available, wouldn't it be nice to 
have lots of "previously owned" Minis sitting on the shelf ready to take their 
place?
Please help make it so:
www.petitiononline.com/macminsa/petition.html
8936 signatures to go!
Paul Looney


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Re: Need for Speed (postscript)

[Stephen Barncard]

forget what I said..

what about "pass by reference" being faster?


I just realized that nothing is being passed... local vars..
And the math is simpleI think you've got it down to the bare...

way faster would be accomplished by using a database to make the 
calculations. The data would have to be uploaded to the database of 
coursethe fastest DB appears to be Valentina...


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Re: Need for Speed (postscript)

[Mark Smith]

Well, I'd imagine that it's more efficient to pass large chunks of  
data to other handlers by reference, but I don't see how that would  
apply to this example - even if you pass the additional line and the  
output data to a separate function, the new line still has to be  
added to the output data, however they were passed. Perhaps I'm  
missing the point, though?


Best,

Mark

On 15 Jul 2007, at 22:27, Stephen Barncard wrote:


what about "pass by reference" being faster?

Stephen, for what it's worth, my own experience (when I was doing  
my SHA1 function) is that it's marginally quicker to use literals  
than it is to use constants. I do mean marginally, though it was  
enough to shave a few more milliseconds off the execution time of  
the SHA1 function...



Best,

Mark



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Re: Need for Speed (postscript)

[Stephen Barncard]

what about "pass by reference" being faster?

Stephen, for what it's worth, my own experience (when I was doing my 
SHA1 function) is that it's marginally quicker to use literals than 
it is to use constants. I do mean marginally, though it was enough 
to shave a few more milliseconds off the execution time of the SHA1 
function...



Best,

Mark



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Re: Need for Speed (postscript)

[Stephen Barncard]

I meant   "when you put somevariable AFTER tOutVariable"



I know that in HC, when you put somevariable into tOutVariable, that 
the entire tOutVariable gets recreated, not just appended.




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Re: Need for Speed (postscript)

[Mark Smith]

Stephen, for what it's worth, my own experience (when I was doing my  
SHA1 function) is that it's marginally quicker to use literals than  
it is to use constants. I do mean marginally, though it was enough to  
shave a few more milliseconds off the execution time of the SHA1  
function...



Best,

Mark

On 15 Jul 2007, at 21:50, Stephen Barncard wrote:


another thing -- the last line in the loop

put "" & return after outputData

perhaps that could be a constant, defined at the top of the script


constant kBarDisplay = ""

then use this in the loop
put kBarDisplay & return after outputData

this one might have negligible difference, but I haven't tested this.


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Re: Need for Speed (postscript)

[Stephen Barncard]

Has someone benchmarked this?

I could easily stand corrected on this (not tested by me), but I'd 
look for a way to touch the variable outPutData "by reference" (in 
other words touching as little as possible).


 "Put into", I think, has more overhead. In a situation with so much 
data, every little bit helps.


I know that in HC, when you put somevariable into tOutVariable, that 
the entire tOutVariable gets recreated, not just appended.


Ken Ray has a demonstration of the the use of "by reference" but does 
not allude to any speed improvement.


http://www.sonsothunder.com/devres/revolution/tips/scrp003.htm


Also again I could be corrected, but perhaps moving the data from 
field "massList" into a variable might speed things up a bit. I'm 
wondering that ANY referring to any field from inside such a long 
loop is a possible time consumer.


another thing -- the last line in the loop

put "" & return after outputData

perhaps that could be a constant, defined at the top of the script


constant kBarDisplay = ""

then use this in the loop
put kBarDisplay & return after outputData

this one might have negligible difference, but I haven't tested this.


Thanks to everyone who responded (Mark Schonewille, Mark Smith, 
Viktoras Didziulis, Robert Brenstein, apologies if I forgot anyone) 
- a whole range of solutions, including arrays, databases and 'just' 
variables. Anyway, I coded up the brute force method without any 
finess... here's the business bit of the script with some frippery...





put "NEW SEARCH, MASS = " & pepMass & " at " & ppm & " ppm 
error" & return after outputData










I ran a brutal test, of 45,000 lines in massList and 16,000 lines in seqDB

My crude attempt seems to be capable, even running within the Rev 
IDE, of completing the 720million comparisons in about 30minutes 
(OK, admittedly CoreDuo 2.66GHz, 2GB RAM). That's 24million a 
minute! (I deliberately put some searches that would match at the 
end of seqDB, to be sure I searched through most of the file each 
time). I am pretty happy with this, and I'd be looking for at least 
a 10-fold gain in speed to code up a harder solution.




Do you experts thing a 10-fold gain is feasible? 100-fold?

Rob



Prof R J Beynon[h]
Proteomics and Functional Genomics Group
Faculty of Veterinary Science
University of Liverpool
Crown Street, Liverpool L69 7ZJ



Phone: +44 151 794 4312

Fax: +44 151 794 4243

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.liv.ac.uk/pfg





This email was sent on Sun, 15 Jul, 2007 at 8:58 PM.



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Re: Wireframe animation engine examples?

[David Bovill]

On 15/07/07, Klaus Major <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



> dimmed. Can you send me a demo?

It in the demo stack of AE, not Rev!



Yes - I downloaded and searched in  in the  AE engine and demo,  tutorials
and showcase at:

 http://www.runrev.com/section/revselect/arcadeengine/index.php

No joy?
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Re: Log scales = animation scales?

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, David Bovill wrote:

> From a couple of tests you can't fluidly animate more than a very small
> number of objects at the same time. So generating a lista and passing that
> recursively deleting an item each pass may help a little.

By all means, please try it and post your results.  In my experience, if you
have more than few objects moving at the same time, you will get some
slowdown.


> how does RunRev compare performance wise in animating simple controls
> compared to Flash - I know Flash has a lot of nice features and s set up for
> this - but if you just want to animate a button across the screen, or as i
> my case a few pieces of text in fields (changeing there size)... is Flash
> any faster?

Moving one or two objects in Rev is OK, but generally Flash is much faster.
Flash was designed for animation since its beginning.  It treats almost
everything (except bitmaps) as vectors which is probably one of the reasons
for its speed.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design


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Need for Speed (postscript)

[Beynon, Rob]

Thanks to everyone who responded (Mark Schonewille, Mark Smith, Viktoras 
Didziulis, Robert Brenstein, apologies if I forgot anyone) - a whole range of 
solutions, including arrays, databases and 'just' variables. Anyway, I coded up 
the brute force method without any finess... here's the business bit of the 
script with some frippery...

 

global seqDB

ON mouseUp

put the number of lines in field "massList" into peptides

put "Processing " & peptides & " masses, please wait..." into field "Output"

put the long time into field "Start"

put empty into outputData

set the tabstops of field "Output" to 120, 390, 10,20

put field "ppm" into ppm

REPEAT for each line pepMass in field "massList"

put "NEW SEARCH, MASS = " & pepMass & " at " & ppm & " ppm error" & 
return after outputData

put  pepMass * ppm/100 into massError

REPEAT for each line peptide in seqDB

put the third word of peptide into dbMass

IF abs(pepMass-dbMass) <= massError THEN put peptide & "K" & tab & 
dbMass-pepMass & return after outputData

END REPEAT

put "" & return after outputData

END REPEAT

put outputData into field "Output"

put the long time into field "Stop"

END mouseUp

 

I ran a brutal test, of 45,000 lines in massList and 16,000 lines in seqDB

My crude attempt seems to be capable, even running within the Rev IDE, of 
completing the 720million comparisons in about 30minutes (OK, admittedly 
CoreDuo 2.66GHz, 2GB RAM). That's 24million a minute! (I deliberately put some 
searches that would match at the end of seqDB, to be sure I searched through 
most of the file each time). I am pretty happy with this, and I'd be looking 
for at least a 10-fold gain in speed to code up a harder solution. 

 

Do you experts thing a 10-fold gain is feasible? 100-fold?

Rob



Prof R J Beynon[h]
Proteomics and Functional Genomics Group
Faculty of Veterinary Science
University of Liverpool
Crown Street, Liverpool L69 7ZJ



Phone: +44 151 794 4312

Fax: +44 151 794 4243

Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

http://www.liv.ac.uk/pfg



 

This email was sent on Sun, 15 Jul, 2007 at 8:58 PM.



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Why Save the Mac Mini

[Peter Alcibiades]

Oh dear, I have been biting my tongue for days on this one.  And if only the 
thread would stop, I'd have succeeded in keeping quiet!

Look, here is what I don't get:  the combination of poor organizations, 
running Rev, and Minis.  In fact, it seems positively grotesque.

If what you want is to run Rev cheaply, as my poor charitable organization 
needs to, an old PIII Compaq runs it very snappily.  We paid probably 5% of 
what a Mini would cost, and we spend the rest on the objectives of the 
organization, a stance I have great respect for.  Its a critical application 
by the way, its just not spending any more than we have to on computing.

If what you want is performance at a price, as we once did for our office 
machine, where we needed an Office application, you buy a whitebox Intel at a 
quarter the price of an equipped Mini, and put Linux on it.  And you spend 
the money you saved on your clients.

Now, if what you want is an elegant box you can put in your handbag or jacket 
pocket, and run MS Office on, fine.  The Mini is for you.  And if you have 
the money.

But for poor educational or charitable sector organizations to buy Minis just 
seems to me a totally disordered sense of priorities.  Still more if a prime 
purpose is to run Rev, which is (one of its pleasures) so remarkably 
forgiving of low end hardware.  I have had absolutely no, zero, complaints 
about responsiveness on our 500Mhz machine running the Rev app.  Its instant.  
If we were teaching programming on it, using Rev, I think it would be 
perfectly fine and at least as responsive as a Mini.  The graphics are of the 
same generation anyway.

So at least for the charitable sector, if it goes, it really looks like no 
loss at all.  In fact, a boon, if it stops them wasting their money.

I am not criticizing anyone who spends their own money on the thing.  There is 
no accounting for tastes.  If however its money that is devoted to a purpose 
that is being spent, and one is administering the funds, buying Minis strikes 
me as fiscally irresponsible to the point of immorality.

Well, got it off my chest at last!

Peter
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Re: Wireframe animation engine examples?

[Klaus Major]

Am 15.07.2007 um 21:13 schrieb David Bovill:


On 15/07/07, Ian Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The trial stack includes an example of a wireframe model.


Hi Ian - I downloaded everything from RunRev inclduing the Trial  
stack -
seems to have cahnged - there is a demo button on the trial stack  
but its

dimmed. Can you send me a demo?


It in the demo stack of AE, not Rev!


Best

Klaus Major
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www.major-k.de

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Re: Wireframe animation engine examples?

[David Bovill]

On 15/07/07, Ian Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


The trial stack includes an example of a wireframe model.



Hi Ian - I downloaded everything from RunRev inclduing the Trial stack -
seems to have cahnged - there is a demo button on the trial stack but its
dimmed. Can you send me a demo?
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defaultmenubar

[David Bovill]

Seems strange syntax to me:

  - to set it you use the short name of the group
  - property returns the long name of a group
  - setting it to the long name of a group (sometimes) works

Can anyone explain the quirks? You can find examples here:

   http://handlers.rev-co.de/wiki/defaultMenubar#Examples
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RevMedia - what cant it do?

[David Bovill]

On the RevMedia question - there is a bunch of stuff I don't get - it seems
you can do everything except:

Display palette and modeless windows in the development environment


So as I don't use palettes much, and modeless windows ever, and the ssl
option was recently dropped... I might as well have used RevMedia over
Studio ?

I mean the database stuff is OK - but I mainly use XML docs say you
can't add externals - so the only way to extend RevMedia is using vanilla
stacks?
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Re: Wireframe animation engine examples?

[Ian Wood]

On 15 Jul 2007, at 11:31, David Bovill wrote:


Animation Engine.


Sure. But I want to see what the examples it can produce are like -
performance wise for instance before shelling out for something I  
may never

use?


The trial stack includes an example of a wireframe model.

Ian
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Re: Why Save the Mac Mini

[Jim Ault]

On 7/12/07 1:30 PM, "Chipp Walters" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> My own personal saga re: the Mini.
> 
I use 3 Duo mini's in a stack in the corner.
No monitor, keyboard, or RAM upgrade.
Timbuktu loaded on each.

For less than $2000 USD,  I have 3 Duo processors running 9 of my apps,
since I need CPU speed and not RAM.
Two of the Duo's have a static IP directly on the internet using a switch to
connect to the cable modem, thus accessible to our team from anywhere.

I don't use virus protection.
I do take advantage of applescript and Safari browser to do some web page
detection and data downloads.

I use an app with AltBrowser (early version) on a WinXP machine so that a
team member can view the pages that are auto-pinged for verification.

Thus 3 Duo mini's and 3 WinXP machines that work very smoothly together.  We
plan to add 2 more mini's in the next few months, and again, remote access
is all that is required.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


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Re: Why Save the Mac Mini

[Marian Petrides]

Well, I must admit (ducking for cover), I'm using the 30 incher  
primarily as an HDTV (using an El Gato tuner), for watching videos  
and for (yes, I admit it!) playing games.  "Apple TV, I don't need no  
steenkin' Apple TV, I've got my mini."  :-)))


The gaming function, in particular, pretty much requires a dedicated  
graphics card.  I'd love to be able to just leave my mini hooked up  
to the 30 inch display full time instead of attaching and detaching  
the MBP.



On Jul 15, 2007, at 12:08 PM, Stephen Barncard wrote:

I think it also supports the 23 Cinema display. Unless one is  
editing video or doing real high rez graphics, this is the biggest  
practical size. Just as 15" is the biggest practical laptop...


OK, I signed too.  I rarely use my mini, preferring the MacBook  
Pro, but I still like having it.


I thought about adding support for 30 inch Apple cinema display to  
the wish list (the mini currently drives a 20 inch cinema display  
but having it run the 30 incher would be fantastic!). However,   
I'm sure that would add way too much to the cost.  I'd be happy  
with a dedicated graphics processor.


On Jul 15, 2007, at 11:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



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Re: Why Save the Mac Mini

[Stephen Barncard]

I think it also supports the 23 Cinema display. Unless one is editing 
video or doing real high rez graphics, this is the biggest practical 
size. Just as 15" is the biggest practical laptop...


OK, I signed too.  I rarely use my mini, preferring the MacBook Pro, 
but I still like having it.


I thought about adding support for 30 inch Apple cinema display to 
the wish list (the mini currently drives a 20 inch cinema display 
but having it run the 30 incher would be fantastic!). However,  I'm 
sure that would add way too much to the cost.  I'd be happy with a 
dedicated graphics processor.


On Jul 15, 2007, at 11:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:



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Re: Why Save the Mac Mini

[Marian Petrides]

OK, I signed too.  I rarely use my mini, preferring the MacBook Pro,  
but I still like having it.


I thought about adding support for 30 inch Apple cinema display to  
the wish list (the mini currently drives a 20 inch cinema display but  
having it run the 30 incher would be fantastic!). However,  I'm sure  
that would add way too much to the cost.  I'd be happy with a  
dedicated graphics processor.


On Jul 15, 2007, at 11:42 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Judy,
I remember you telling me about "Katheryn" at one of the conferences.
I agree that (despite possible allegations of "age discrimination")  
600 year
old people should not vote (so far the petition seems to be honest  
and I like
that). Having studied her for "about 30 years", you may have lived  
her life

longer than she did!
Paul


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Re: Why Save the Mac Mini

[SimPLsol]

Judy,
I remember you telling me about "Katheryn" at one of the conferences.
I agree that (despite possible allegations of "age discrimination") 600 year 
old people should not vote (so far the petition seems to be honest and I like 
that). Having studied her for "about 30 years", you may have lived her life 
longer than she did!
Paul


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RE: Why Save the Mac Mini

[Lynn Fredricks]

> Who will be ?
> Paul Looney

Lets hope noone is waiting for the opportunity ;-)

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
Worldwide Business Operations
Runtime Revolution Ltd
http://www.runrev.com
 

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Re: Log scales = animation scales?

[David Bovill]

Oh - this is the on I did for animating the texsize (without acceleration):

setprop text_Zoom [someSpeed] maxSize
   if someSpeed is empty then put 2 into someSpeed
   put item -1 of maxSize into maxSize
   put the long id of the target into targetObject

   put (the textsize of targetObject) + someSpeed into newSize
   if newSize >= maxSize then
   set the textsize of targetObject to maxSize
   else
   set the textsize of targetObject to newSize

   -- recurse
   -- wait 1 milliseconds
   -- put "set the text_Zoom [someSpeed] of targetObject to maxSize"
into pigeon
   put "set the text_Zoom [" & someSpeed & "] of me to" && maxSize into
pigeon
   send pigeon to targetObject in 1 millisecond
   end if
end text_Zoom

I can only do a few of these at a time on my PowerBook.
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Re: Log scales = animation scales?

[David Bovill]

Thanks Mark... now to mash up the two scripts!

On 15/07/07, Mark Smith <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


David, better mathematicians than I could probably do this better,
but this does what I think you're after:

function logScale pDistance, pNumSteps
   put pDistance / pNumSteps into stepSize
   put 0 into tNum
   put 0 into seriesA
   repeat while tNum < pDistance
 add stepSize to tNum
 put comma & LN(tNum) after seriesA
   end repeat

   put pDistance / item -1 of seriesA into tMapValue
   repeat for each item L in seriesA
 put round(pDistance - (L * tMapValue)) & comma before seriesB
   end repeat
   delete item 1 of seriesB -- first item will be 0, discard

   return  char 1 to -2 of seriesB
end logScale

put logScale(72, 10) produces this series:

2,4,6,9,12,15,20,27,39,72

Best,


Mark



On 15 Jul 2007, at 02:27, David Bovill wrote:

> I am playing with some animation "zoom" effects - and have a maths
> question.
> Say I want to scale something between 1 and 72 in10 steps - so i
> need to
> generate a series of numbers between 1 and 72. Now i could just say
> each
> step is 7 - but more natural would be for it to start slower and
> get faster
> so i want an exponential series with 10 steps or something like
> that :)
>
> Are there any ideas for natural type movements - straight acceleration
> (maybe with ease in and / or ease out)?
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Re: Log scales = animation scales?

[Mark Smith]

David, better mathematicians than I could probably do this better,  
but this does what I think you're after:


function logScale pDistance, pNumSteps
  put pDistance / pNumSteps into stepSize
  put 0 into tNum
  put 0 into seriesA
  repeat while tNum < pDistance
add stepSize to tNum
put comma & LN(tNum) after seriesA
  end repeat

  put pDistance / item -1 of seriesA into tMapValue
  repeat for each item L in seriesA
put round(pDistance - (L * tMapValue)) & comma before seriesB
  end repeat
  delete item 1 of seriesB -- first item will be 0, discard

  return  char 1 to -2 of seriesB
end logScale

put logScale(72, 10) produces this series:

2,4,6,9,12,15,20,27,39,72

Best,


Mark



On 15 Jul 2007, at 02:27, David Bovill wrote:

I am playing with some animation "zoom" effects - and have a maths  
question.
Say I want to scale something between 1 and 72 in10 steps - so i  
need to
generate a series of numbers between 1 and 72. Now i could just say  
each
step is 7 - but more natural would be for it to start slower and  
get faster
so i want an exponential series with 10 steps or something like  
that :)


Are there any ideas for natural type movements - straight acceleration
(maybe with ease in and / or ease out)?
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Re: Wireframe animation engine examples?

[David Bovill]

On 15/07/07, Ian Wood <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Animation Engine.



Sure. But I want to see what the examples it can produce are like -
performance wise for instance before shelling out for something I may never
use?
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Re: Log scales = animation scales?

[David Bovill]

Great - that will do the trick Scott!

I think it would be good to separate the number series generated from the
action - so that you could animate various properties not just the loc, and
also it may have a very minor speed benefit at the cost of slower start.

From a couple of tests you can't fluidly animate more than a very small

number of objects at the same time. So generating a lista and passing that
recursively deleting an item each pass may help a little.

NB - how does RunRev compare performance wise in animating simple controls
compared to Flash - I know Flash has a lot of nice features and s set up for
this - but if you just want to animate a button across the screen, or as i
my case a few pieces of text in fields (changeing there size)... is Flash
any faster?

On 15/07/07, Scott Rossi <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Recently, David Bovill wrote:

> Are there any ideas for natural type movements - straight acceleration
> (maybe with ease in and / or ease out)?

You're welcome to use the following (watch wraps).  It's set up as a
handler
with parameters to allow for easing (moving) multiple objects at once.  So
you can place the code in the card script, for example, and call
"easeObject..." for each object on the card you want to move.
(Requires Rev 2.7 or later for object fading.)

# EASE IN/OUT ANIMATION SCRIPT
#
# VARIABLE DESCRIPTIONS
# pObj = LONG ID OF OBJECT TO MOVE
# pStartLoc = STARTING LOCATION
# pDestLoc = ENDING LOCATION
# pMethod = "IN" OR "OUT" -- "IN" DECELERATES, "OUT" ACCELLERTATES
# pDuration = DURATION OF EASE EFFECT
# pStartTime = TIME IN MILLISECONDS WHEN EASE EFFECT BEGINS
# pFade = "IN" OR "OUT" -- OPTIONAL FADE IN/OUT OF EASED OBJECT
# pHost = LONG ID OF OBJECT TO RECEIVE 'EASEDONE' MESSAGE

on easeObject
pObj,pStartLoc,pDestLoc,pMethod,pDuration,pStartTime,pFade,pHost
  put (the millisecs - pStartTime)/pDuration into phi
  # REQUIRED FOR SHORT MOVE TIMES
  if phi > 1 then put 1 into phi
  # USE APPROPRIATE FUNCTION
  if pMethod = "in" then put (2*phi - phi^2) into tEase # EASE IN
  if pMethod = "out" then put phi^2 into tEase # EASE OUT
  # MOVE OBJECT
  put (item 1 of pDestLoc - item 1 of pStartLoc) into xDist
  put (item 2 of pDestLoc - item 2 of pStartLoc) into yDist
  put item 1 of pStartLoc + round(tEase * xDist) into newX
  put item 2 of pStartLoc + round(tEase * yDist) into newY
  set loc of pObj to newX,newY
  if pFade = "in" then set blendLevel of pObj to 100 - (phi * 100)
  if pFade = "out" then set blendLevel of pObj to (phi * 100)
  # EXIT WHEN OBJECT REACHES ITS DESTINATION
  if ((newX,newY) = pDestLoc) or (phi >= 1) then
send "easeDone pObj" to pHost
exit easeObject
  end if
  # LOOP SCRIPT
  send "easeObject
pObj,pStartLoc,pDestLoc,pMethod,pDuration,pStartTime,pFade,pHost" to me in
10 milliseconds
end easeObject


Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design


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Re: Menu text formatting documentation?

[David Bovill]

Thanks - I'll take a look at the MC docs...

On 15/07/07, J. Landman Gay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


David Bovill wrote:
> Specifically - what does !u mean?

This is from the MetaCard documentation regarding menu buttons:

***
There are several special characters that you can put at the start of a
line in the button contents to indicate that an item should be something
other than a simple rectangle button:

-  makes a divider between groups of menu items
!c makes the menu item a hilited check box
!n makes the menu item an unhilited check box
!r makes the menu item a hilited radio button
!u makes the menu item an unhilited radio button
(  makes the menu item disabled

***

I'm not sure where it is in the Rev docs any more. It used to be in the
reference materials that Jeanne wrote for Rev 1.x but RR removed a lot
of those stacks.

Note that not all menuitem styles above are supported on all operating
systems.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Wireframe animation engine examples?

[Ian Wood]

Animation Engine.

Ian

On 14 Jul 2007, at 23:47, David Bovill wrote:

I'd like to take a look at some examples of wire frame animation  -  
for

speed and flexibility -are there any knocking around?
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Re: Wireframe animation engine examples?

[viktoras didziulis]

This may be useful:
http://www.adobe.com/devnet/flash/articles/flash_3d.html.
Examples are for flash, but same principles may apply for 3D graphics in 
Revolution too.


Viktoras

David Bovill wrote:

I'd like to take a look at some examples of wire frame animation  - for
speed and flexibility -are there any knocking around?
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