Re: Navigation Perplexity

[stephen barncard]

You owe it to yourself to check out Dar Scott's tutorials, including
'Message Mechanics' which can graphically illustrate how Rev's messaging
works.
http://pages.swcp.com/dsc/revstacks.html


Stephen Barncard
-
San Francisco
http://barncard.com


2009/3/21 dunbarx 

> Reposting this:
>
> I thought I knew how these things worked. Even HC does this, I just found
> out.
>
> Two stacks, "A" and "B". In a button handler on "A":
>
> on mouseUp
>   wait 200
>   go stack "A" -- remember, the button is in "A"
> end mouseUp
>
> During the wait period, if I click anywhere on stack "B", the frontmost
> stack
> is "B" after the timeout. If, instead of "wait", I have a repeat loop
> that allows me time to click on stack "B" before it terminates, I still am
> left in
> "B". The click's loc is remembered with a vengeance, overRiding the "go"
> command,
> far more than I would have thought possible.
>
> Pushing/Popping cards, going to "A" five times, nothing matters.
>
> It's like I am 1 hour into HC in '87. I can't believe I never noticed
> before.
> This isn't even a Rev thing.
>
> Craig Newman
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Navigation Perplexity

[dunbarx]

Reposting this:

I thought I knew how these things worked. Even HC does this, I just found 
out. 

Two stacks, "A" and "B". In a button handler on "A":

on mouseUp
  wait 200
  go stack "A" -- remember, the button is in "A"
end mouseUp

During the wait period, if I click anywhere on stack "B", the frontmost stack 
is "B" after the timeout. If, instead of "wait", I have a repeat loop 
that allows me time to click on stack "B" before it terminates, I still am left 
in 
"B". The click's loc is remembered with a vengeance, overRiding the "go" 
command,
far more than I would have thought possible.

Pushing/Popping cards, going to "A" five times, nothing matters.

It's like I am 1 hour into HC in '87. I can't believe I never noticed before. 
This isn't even a Rev thing.

Craig Newman
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Re: Linux can't disable menuItems?

[Peter Alcibiades]

Bill,

I created a new main stack.  On it placed a dropdown menu with the usual
three default choices, and a button with a script reading:

  on mouseUp
   disable menuItem 2 of menu "test"
  end mouseUp

and, as for you, what comes up when I click is

Chunk: no such object
Object  Button
Linedisable menuItem 2 of menu "test"
Hinttest

What works is

  disable [or enable] menuItem 2 of button "test"

As does

  disable [or enable] button "test"

Unlike you, I got the same thing from the message box.

Dunno, its not quite as the dictionary says, but maybe you can't refer to
them as menus for some reason?  Was yours pulldown?  Hard to see why it
should be any different in Linux though.

Debian Lenny, Rev 3.0

Peter


Bill Vlahos wrote:
> 
> Would someone who is familiar with Linux do a test for me?
> 
> I have a program built on a Mac for Linux and I get an error in Linux  
> when I try to disable a menuItem. The error is Type: Chunk: no such  
> object. The syntax looks correct and works on Mac and Windows builds.
> 
> I then created a new stack in the IDE on Linux (Ubuntu 8.10) with  
> menus and issued both the command in the message box (disable menuItem  
> 1 of menu "Help") and in the script of a button. No error was  
> generated but the menuItem was not disabled.
> 
> If someone could either confirm this or tell me what I'm doing wrong I  
> would appreciate it.
> 
> Bill Vlahos
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-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Linux-can%27t-disable-menuItems--tp22639341p22643035.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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Re: Creating htpasswd compatible passwords

[Sarah Reichelt]

On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Marty Knapp  wrote:
> Has anyone used Rev to create encrypted passwords that are compatible with
> htpasswd to protect areas of your web site? I know absolutely nothing about
> encryption. I've spent a few hours poking around the internet trying to find
> something that I can use for a utility I need to make. I found lots of web
> sites that will generate an encrypted password, but I don't really want to
> go that route.

On a Mac you could just use shell() and have Rev provide a nice
interface to the htpasswd command.
I would guess that would owrk on Linux too. Haven't a clue about Windows.

Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: illegal creativity?

[stephen barncard]

This is a political discussion that has no place here. Please take it
offline.
Stephen Barncard
-
San Francisco
http://barncard.com


2009/3/21 Randall Reetz 

> exactly
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Barry Barber" 
> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Sent: 3/21/2009 12:05 PM
> Subject: RE: illegal creativity?
>
> On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 06:17:22 -0700 Randall Reetz wrote:
> "..  There are 60 people on this planet. I
> could find you a person who was bitten by a polar bear on the south pole.
> .. "
>
> I seriously doubt this statement, unless I misinterpreted an intended
> metaphore referring to the anatomical part on which the man was bitten,
>  because there are no polar bears in the Antartic - they live in the Artic
> (i.e., North Pole).
> Can't really see any connection to this long thread either! Hope it's dead.
> :-) Regards Barry
>
>
>
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Creating htpasswd compatible passwords

[Marty Knapp]

Has anyone used Rev to create encrypted passwords that are compatible 
with htpasswd to protect areas of your web site? I know absolutely 
nothing about encryption. I've spent a few hours poking around the 
internet trying to find something that I can use for a utility I need to 
make. I found lots of web sites that will generate an encrypted 
password, but I don't really want to go that route.


Thanks for any help,
Marty Knapp
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Points in Curve Graphics

[Richmond Mathewson]

If I create a Curve Graphic it, initially, has 42 points.

I tried, the other day, to set its points to a list of 10,000 in
a field; and my computer ground to a halt.

Can anybody tell me the maximum number of points a Curve Graphic
can have?



A while ago I knocked together a "Spirograph" stack using bitmaps;
so I thought I would be "clever" and try to do the same thing
with vector graphics . . .

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.




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Re: Call for ban (was Re: illegal creativity?)

[viktoras d.]

I started the thread, received all opinions, made my decisions, now 
there is no reason it should continue. As  the one who started now I 
"formally" declare thread "illegal creativity" CLOSED.


Randal replied with intention to give an advice and discuss, and even if 
his opinion is quite different, he did not offend anyone directly, nor 
promoted illegal activity, so a ban wouldn't be fair. No ban, let it be 
peace, please...


Viktoras
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web browser and Rev interactivity, help

[Andrew Meit]

Hi,

I am wanting to edit the selected text of a text box on a web page  
presented on a card of a stack. As for as I can tell, I can't directly  
replace selected text in the text box. Anyone has a way to do this  
please share. What I would like to do is press a button and have it  
insert text into a text-box or replace the selected text. I hope this  
can be done.

Thank you.

Shalom, Andrew
{Choose Life, Create Hope, Nurture Love, Wrestle Faith...}


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Re: Call for ban (was Re: illegal creativity?)

[Phil Davis]

I never read threads like this for very long either. Once I see it has 
become a wrestling match without any likelihood of a meeting of the 
minds, I spend my precious time elsewhere.


Besides, I can watch visually and theatrically superior wrestling on 
TV.  :o)  I don't, but I could.


Phil Davis


Mark Schonewille wrote:

Hi,

I didn't find the Illegal Creativity thread interesting and thus I 
read only a few messages of it. I don't have the impression that 
Randall promotes illegal activity. If he does, I assume it is not on 
purpose.


--
Phil Davis

PDS Labs
Professional Software Development
http://pdslabs.net

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Re-2: Call for ban (was Re: illegal creativity?)

[runrev260805]

Hi,

although i do not agree in opinion with Randall, i defeat this call, too.

He did not offend someone nor do i see a real purpose to promoting illegal 
activity. At least i did not grasp it as such an activity.

Regards,

Matthias


 Original Message 
Subject: Re: Call for ban (was Re: illegal creativity?) (21-Mrz-2009 20:19)
From:Mark Schonewille 
To:  runrev260...@m-r-d.de

> Hi,
> 
> I didn't find the Illegal Creativity thread interesting and thus I  
> read only a few messages of it. I don't have the impression that  
> Randall promotes illegal activity. If he does, I assume it is not on  
> purpose.
> 
> I oppose to this call. I also believe that such a public call is most  
> inappropriate. If anyone believes that anyone else should be banned,  
> please write off-list to Revolution support. I'm sure they know how  
> do handle this.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark
> 
> --
> 
> Economy-x-Talk
> Consultancy and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> 
> Get your store on-line within minutes with Salery Web Store software.  
> Download at http://www.salery.biz
> 
> Op 21-mrt-2009, om 20:02 heeft Hugh Senior het volgende geschreven:
> 
> > Heather...
> >
> > If Randall Reetz  is publically promoting  
> > illegal
> > behaviour for whatever reasoning he sees fit, his access to this  
> > user group
> > should be terminated. Immediately.
> >
> > I am not interested in his arguments or rationale, nor in seeing  
> > this virus
> > thread continue.
> >
> > /H
> >
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> 
> 
> 
> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com


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RE: illegal creativity?

[Randall Reetz]

exactly

-Original Message-
From: "Barry Barber" 
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Sent: 3/21/2009 12:05 PM
Subject: RE: illegal creativity?

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 06:17:22 -0700 Randall Reetz wrote:
"..  There are 60 people on this planet. I could 
find you a person who was bitten by a polar bear on the south pole. .. "

I seriously doubt this statement, unless I misinterpreted an intended metaphore 
referring to the anatomical part on which the man was bitten,  because there 
are no polar bears in the Antartic - they live in the Artic (i.e., North Pole).
Can't really see any connection to this long thread either! Hope it's dead.
:-) Regards Barry


  
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RE: Call for ban (was Re: illegal creativity?)

[Randall Reetz]

Nothing in anything i have said or meant could ever be construed to mean i 
advocate any form of illegal activity.  Because i dont and wouldnt.  Period.  I 
was calling attention to the illegal nature of user agreements when they 
contradict law and legal rights.  Nothing more nothing less.

-Original Message-
From: "Mark Schonewille" 
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 3/21/2009 12:15 PM
Subject: Re: Call for ban (was Re: illegal creativity?)

Hi,

I didn't find the Illegal Creativity thread interesting and thus I  
read only a few messages of it. I don't have the impression that  
Randall promotes illegal activity. If he does, I assume it is not on  
purpose.

I oppose to this call. I also believe that such a public call is most  
inappropriate. If anyone believes that anyone else should be banned,  
please write off-list to Revolution support. I'm sure they know how  
do handle this.

Best regards,

Mark

--

Economy-x-Talk
Consultancy and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Get your store on-line within minutes with Salery Web Store software.  
Download at http://www.salery.biz

Op 21-mrt-2009, om 20:02 heeft Hugh Senior het volgende geschreven:

> Heather...
>
> If Randall Reetz  is publically promoting  
> illegal
> behaviour for whatever reasoning he sees fit, his access to this  
> user group
> should be terminated. Immediately.
>
> I am not interested in his arguments or rationale, nor in seeing  
> this virus
> thread continue.
>
> /H
>
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Rev presentation tool - PowerPoint alternative?

[Richard K. Herz]

Is there a good Rev alternative to PowerPoint?

I just attended a conference sponsored by the American Society for 
Engineering Education. Most talks said that traditional lectures are not 
effective and we need new methods. But almost all speakers gave that 
message in traditional lecture format using PowerPoint!


In my talk I wanted to show interactive software built with Rev. Waiting 
until the very last minute, I didn't have time to make slides in a Rev 
stack, so I used PowerPoint.


The biggest problem is that PowerPoint takes over the entire screen. 
It's hard to go back and forth to a Rev stack without distraction. I 
ended up saving the PowerPoint as web pages, then using Full Screen 
Slide Show option which puts slides (as gifs) in a popup window that can 
be resized smaller to allow access to the Rev stack with both windows 
for the slides and stack on screen at same time. Would be nice to have a 
Rev alternative that can do things like resize text to match screen 
size, allow full or partial screen mode, etc.


Rich Herz
www.SimzLab.com

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Re: Call for ban (was Re: illegal creativity?)

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi,

I didn't find the Illegal Creativity thread interesting and thus I  
read only a few messages of it. I don't have the impression that  
Randall promotes illegal activity. If he does, I assume it is not on  
purpose.


I oppose to this call. I also believe that such a public call is most  
inappropriate. If anyone believes that anyone else should be banned,  
please write off-list to Revolution support. I'm sure they know how  
do handle this.


Best regards,

Mark

--

Economy-x-Talk
Consultancy and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Get your store on-line within minutes with Salery Web Store software.  
Download at http://www.salery.biz


Op 21-mrt-2009, om 20:02 heeft Hugh Senior het volgende geschreven:


Heather...

If Randall Reetz  is publically promoting  
illegal
behaviour for whatever reasoning he sees fit, his access to this  
user group

should be terminated. Immediately.

I am not interested in his arguments or rationale, nor in seeing  
this virus

thread continue.

/H


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Linux can't disable menuItems?

[Bill Vlahos]

Would someone who is familiar with Linux do a test for me?

I have a program built on a Mac for Linux and I get an error in Linux  
when I try to disable a menuItem. The error is Type: Chunk: no such  
object. The syntax looks correct and works on Mac and Windows builds.


I then created a new stack in the IDE on Linux (Ubuntu 8.10) with  
menus and issued both the command in the message box (disable menuItem  
1 of menu "Help") and in the script of a button. No error was  
generated but the menuItem was not disabled.


If someone could either confirm this or tell me what I'm doing wrong I  
would appreciate it.


Bill Vlahos
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RE: illegal creativity?

[Barry Barber]

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 06:17:22 -0700 Randall Reetz wrote:
"..  There are 60 people on this planet. I could 
find you a person who was bitten by a polar bear on the south pole. ... 
"

I seriously doubt this statement, unless I misinterpreted an intended metaphore 
referring to the anatomical part on which the man was bitten,  because there 
are no polar bears in the Antartic - they live in the Artic (i.e., North Pole).
Can't really see any connection to this long thread either! Hope it's dead.
:-) Regards Barry



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Call for ban (was Re: illegal creativity?)

[Hugh Senior]

Heather...

If Randall Reetz  is publically promoting illegal
behaviour for whatever reasoning he sees fit, his access to this user group
should be terminated. Immediately.

I am not interested in his arguments or rationale, nor in seeing this virus
thread continue.

/H

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RE: illegal creativity?

[Randall Reetz]

Leadership is not culture, especially in autocratic oppressive dictatorships or 
theocracies.  However, the culture in such countries end up reflecting the 
damage caused by abuse.  I refuse to tell lies. The statements i made are to 
call attention between rule of rights (not simply rule of law).  Luckily, a 
larger and larger percentage of global people are living in the relative 
fairness provided by democracy.  If being a life long civil rights liberal 
makes me an archy bunker racist i must have missed a memo.  Abusive systems 
create more paranoia than do less abusive systems.  To the extent that we 
quietly partake in abuse we are to blame.  User contracts have gotten out of 
hand.  These are simple truths.   

-Original Message-
From: "Lynn Fredricks" 
To: "'How to use Revolution'" 
Sent: 3/21/2009 10:50 AM
Subject: RE: illegal creativity?

> I didnt know i was conversing with people from north korea 
> and iran.  In the us, japan, canada, mexico, brazil, iceland, 
> south africa, russia, israel, india, and most of europe, etc. 
> There is a difference between criminal law and civil contract 
> law.  In most moderen democratic societies, the wording in 
> product contracts are considdered about as binding as santa 
> or the stuff car salesmen say right before they go off to 
> "talk to the manager".

If you were someone my father's age, Id write off your comments as the
result of a combination of encroaching senility washing over an Archie
Bunker, pre-WW II mentality - something to let pass when delivered with good
natured intent. But in the less senile, it makes me wonder if you are simply
just trolling this list for the thrill of it.

I hope the list mom will take the time to pitch you off this list for making
such culturally offensive statements.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 




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Re: illegal creativity

[Kevin Miller]

HI,

Folks, it being the weekend in the absence of the list mom I hereby declare
this thread is off topic and closed. Please do not continue to post on this
thread. Thanks.

Kind regards,

Kevin

Kevin Miller ~ ke...@runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools

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Re: Tags in dialog boxes and the command: resetAll

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, Richard Gaskin wrote:

>> So why does the answer dialog render HTML?  It should not.
> 
> How would you propose passing styled text to the answer command?

If it were up to me, the default would be unstyled raw source, and I would
add a flag that would cause stylizing to take place, perhaps "formatted" to
keep in sync with formattedWidth/height/etc.

answer [iconType] prompt [formatted] [with button1 [or buttons]] [titled
windowTitle] [as sheet]

But I realize this will never happen.


> In MC it's required
> that text passed to it begin with "" and end with "" or it will
> be treated as plain text.  This means you could either put "" and
> "" about whatever you want to display raw, or even just a space
> character in front of the text, and you'll show the tags in the content.
> 
> The "raw" option you proposed would be nice, but I wonder if just making
> the HTML flags sufficiently limited would suffice.

If the "" tag is the only thing that triggers styling, then (for me) I
think this would suffice.  But would you suggest doing the same (wrapping in
HTML tags) for other types of code, ie XML?

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design



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RE: illegal creativity?

[Lynn Fredricks]

> I didnt know i was conversing with people from north korea 
> and iran.  In the us, japan, canada, mexico, brazil, iceland, 
> south africa, russia, israel, india, and most of europe, etc. 
> There is a difference between criminal law and civil contract 
> law.  In most moderen democratic societies, the wording in 
> product contracts are considdered about as binding as santa 
> or the stuff car salesmen say right before they go off to 
> "talk to the manager".

If you were someone my father's age, Id write off your comments as the
result of a combination of encroaching senility washing over an Archie
Bunker, pre-WW II mentality - something to let pass when delivered with good
natured intent. But in the less senile, it makes me wonder if you are simply
just trolling this list for the thrill of it.

I hope the list mom will take the time to pitch you off this list for making
such culturally offensive statements.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 




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Re: Tags in dialog boxes and the command: resetAll

[Richard Gaskin]

Scott Rossi wrote:

So why does the answer dialog render HTML?  It should not.


How would you propose passing styled text to the answer command?

The current situation is far from perfect, but for the relatively rare 
case where one needs to show HTML tags as content in an answer dialog it 
takes only a couple minutes to roll your own to do exactly what's needed 
(or less than a minute of your keep a dialog template stack handy ).


Maybe for the long term the flags that cause Rev's answer dialog to 
interpret the HTML might be tightened up a bit.  In MC it's required 
that text passed to it begin with "" and end with "" or it will 
be treated as plain text.  This means you could either put "" and 
"" about whatever you want to display raw, or even just a space 
character in front of the text, and you'll show the tags in the content.


The "raw" option you proposed would be nice, but I wonder if just making 
the HTML flags sufficiently limited would suffice.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
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RE: illegal creativity

[Randall Reetz]

That is why they dont matter.  For to many years companies have taken such wild 
liberty in writing them and the reasonable man doesnt read them at all anyway.  
User licenses are mute in the eyes of the court.  The binding is in purchace 
and use.  Even the above clauses would not stand up in court because 
programming is a medium.  Would you find said clauses in a contract for paper 
or a video camera?  What revolution is protected from is the copying and sale 
or distribution of copies of revolution.  Same goes for using revolution's good 
will and name for a similar product.  And neither of these protections require 
a user agreement. As far as i can tell, the whole mechanism is simply a way for 
lawyers to get hired and paid and look important.  But the blatent missuse of 
contract and copywrite law is having the opposite effect.  Clicking this 
message closed infers that you are in full agreement with all above statements.

-Original Message-
From: "Richmond Mathewson" 
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Sent: 3/21/2009 7:16 AM
Subject: illegal creativity


It would be very helpful, Randall, if you could define "downstream clause".

Are these 'downstream clauses'? :

1. That I, as an owner of an instance of Runtime Revolution am not
   allowed to use it to produce something that will compete directly
   with Runtime Revolution.  [something that seems perfectly normal]

2. That having once used, say, Runtime Revolution, I couldn't use,
   say, SuperCard to produce a standalone that could do the same thing
   that I could have produced with Runtime Revolution. [seems bizarre]

And, if both of these are 'downstream clauses' where is the barrier
between a company protecting its own interests and "coming the heavy
father"?

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life 
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Re: Tags in dialog boxes and the command: resetAll

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, I wrote:

> So why does the answer dialog render HTML?  It should not.

And this was written by a guy who "renders" things all day for a living.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design



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Re: Tags in dialog boxes and the command: resetAll

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, Jim Bufalini wrote:

>> There should be some means to "answer" raw tagged code without
>> rendering.
> 
> I have to say I've always considered this a great "feature," which was added
> in I forget what version of Rev, but not too long ago (my sense of time can
> be warped sometimes ;-).
> 
> As to "raw," I have a stack called Dialog, which I add as a substack to
> anywhere I need this or custom dialog. It has a Prompt field and OK, Cancel,
> buttons, etc. So for raw, I put into the field Prompt and go stack Dialog.
> For formatted, I put into the HTMLtext of field Prompt. Probably not the
> most elegant solution, but it works.

If I write "answer the script of button 1", I get to read the script of
button 1; the answer dialog doesn't try to run that code.

If I write "answer the text of of image 1", I can (sort of) read the binary
code of the image; the answer dialog doesn't try to render the image.

If I write "answer the fileName of player 1", I can view the disk location
of the player's content; the answer dialog doesn't try to play the video.

So why does the answer dialog render HTML?  It should not.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design


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Re: Tags in dialog boxes and the command: resetAll

[stephen barncard]

And it's so damn easy to make your own dialogs...
Stephen Barncard
-
San Francisco
http://barncard.com


2009/3/21 Jim Bufalini 

> Hi Scott,
>
> > I have to say this again, it drives me flippin nuts that I cannot use
> > the
> > answer dialog to view raw tagged code any more.  Any time a string with
> > tags
> > is answered, the dialog automatically tries to render them.  What if
> > one
> > doesn't want this?  What if one wants to debug some lines of HTML or
> > XML?
> > The code has to be dumped into a field or similar.
> >
> > There should be some means to "answer" raw tagged code without
> > rendering.
>
> I have to say I've always considered this a great "feature," which was
> added
> in I forget what version of Rev, but not too long ago (my sense of time can
> be warped sometimes ;-).
>
> As to "raw," I have a stack called Dialog, which I add as a substack to
> anywhere I need this or custom dialog. It has a Prompt field and OK,
> Cancel,
> buttons, etc. So for raw, I put into the field Prompt and go stack Dialog.
> For formatted, I put into the HTMLtext of field Prompt. Probably not the
> most elegant solution, but it works.
>
> This said, I agree, it wouldn't hurt to have a "raw" flag added to
> answer/ask. But, you know, no matter what RunRev adds to answer/ask,
> someone
> will always need "more" or "different." So why not roll your own? ;-)
>
> Aloha from Hawaii,
>
> Jim Bufalini
>
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Re: illegal creativity?

[viktoras d.]

Uhm :-), looks like I have thrown a bomb into the list (sorry, tried to 
avoid this by all means) and again thanks Richmond, Randal, Brian, 
Ruslan and others who responded.


Indeed my position is not to take any steps that can spoil credibility 
or bona fide of my [small] business. Once you own your business (I have 
been running it since 2000), you are not an insignificant home user 
anymore, so have to be careful about things like licenses (that's why I 
asked). I think this specific limitation in EULA does not protect but 
frightens off potential users from that db system, because other 
competing systems do not have limits like this. But I will rather make 
arrangements personally if I consider this database system is vital for 
my project. At this moment I am using an open source system as the 
default, where license allows many more things including use for 
commercial purposes.


Best wishes
Viktoras
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illegal creativity

[Richmond Mathewson]

It would be very helpful, Randall, if you could define "downstream clause".

Are these 'downstream clauses'? :

1. That I, as an owner of an instance of Runtime Revolution am not
   allowed to use it to produce something that will compete directly
   with Runtime Revolution.  [something that seems perfectly normal]

2. That having once used, say, Runtime Revolution, I couldn't use,
   say, SuperCard to produce a standalone that could do the same thing
   that I could have produced with Runtime Revolution. [seems bizarre]

And, if both of these are 'downstream clauses' where is the barrier
between a company protecting its own interests and "coming the heavy
father"?

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.




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RE: illegal creativity?

[Randall Reetz]

I just read the story you linked me to... i would absolutely agree with the 
judgement.  But you dont need a user licence to show malicious and fraudulant 
use.  The court would have come to the same decision had no licence existed.  
Stealing is stealing.  The "bot" effectively changed the experience of all 
other users.  I am dealing as i thought with people who cant think beyond their 
own selfish need.  The original post to this thread did not appear to suggest 
that the product in question would negatively effect the value of the database 
that had the obsurd down-stream clause in its user agreemeent.

-Original Message-
From: "Brian Yennie" 
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 3/21/2009 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: illegal creativity?

Here's an example just to get you started:
http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/07/15/blizzard-wins-lawsuit-against-bot-makers/

I actually disagree with the judgement and think it sets a dangerous  
precedent. But guess what, the boogieman won.

> Really, please do tell me of the times you have been sued for breach  
> of a software user agreement.  I cant wait to hear how often this  
> blight has been brought down apon your small business. Come on.  Is  
> this a joke?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Brian Yennie" 
> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> Sent: 3/21/2009 1:25 AM
> Subject: Re: illegal creativity?
>
> Randall,
>
> Beside your questionable grasp of the law, you are making a straw man
> argument. Even if "reasonable man" arguments worked as simply as you
> imagine, it wouldn't follow that everything in a EULA other than
> copyright is unenforceable. Believe it or not, licensing agreements
> cover things other than copyright and sometimes are even upheld.
>
> Furthermore, being "right" doesn't necessarily keep a small business
> from being put out of business by a lawsuit. Often times the larger
> entity just needs enough collateral damage (even in losing the case)
> to ruin you.
>
> It seems like you have been reading too much SlashDot and running too
> few businesses.
>
>> I didnt know i was conversing with people from north korea and
>> iran.  In the us, japan, canada, mexico, brazil, iceland, south
>> africa, russia, israel, india, and most of europe, etc. There is a
>> difference between criminal law and civil contract law.  In most
>> moderen democratic societies, the wording in product contracts are
>> considdered about as binding as santa or the stuff car salesmen say
>> right before they go off to "talk to the manager".  And that is
>> because of a liile thing called "the reasonable man".  This
>> basically means that a contract or law cannot be inforced if it goes
>> outside of what would be reasonably considdered fair.  Ant that is
>> because guys sitting behind big expensive oak drsks making big
>> salaries baid for by big companies can not be assumed to ever act
>> like reasonable men (bias and conflict of interest is a given).
>> Criminal law on the other hand is written by people we vote for and
>> require to "uphold the constitution".  No such standerd is expected
>> in contract law.  The only thing you can be expected to do when you
>> purchace software is to not copy and sell it.  The rest is
>> hilariously written bs and the court treats it as so. Sorry.  The
>> truth.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Ruslan Zasukhin" 
>> To: "use-revolution" 
>> Sent: 3/21/2009 12:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: illegal creativity?
>>
>> On 3/21/09 4:13 AM, "Randall Reetz"  wrote:
>>
>>> All mosquitos are relevant.  It is scale that matters here.  Scale
>>> and
>>> reality.  Else all of us would be behind bars and prohibited from
>>> buying crest


[truncated by sender]
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illegal creativity

[Richmond Mathewson]

Dear Randall Reetz,
  I owe you an apology for 2 mistakes:

1. I should have written "creativity" rather than "creaticity"
   (which sounds like some sort of generic name for an
   "enhancement" drug).

2. The post in which I "attacked" your "attack" on Ruslan Zakhuskin
   should also have been headed with "illegal creativity",
   rather than your name.

   Sorry; no blood spilt I hope :)

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.




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RE: illegal creaticity?

[Randall Reetz]

Yes, and no user agreement will protect you from said behavior.  Courts however 
will.  Are you sure that your schools will loose significant enrollment if a 
school system in another country uses your software?  If not, why do you care?  
I am against any form of stealing, but your example seems only to effect your 
ego (not your market). Again, this example has nothing to do with user 
agreements.

-Original Message-
From: "Richmond Mathewson" 
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Sent: 3/21/2009 6:13 AM
Subject: illegal creaticity?


Unlike Brian Yennie most of my work is, by most people's
standards, 'tinkering around', at least insofar as I develo
educational software to be deployed over 4 computers 

However, from time to time, 'potential parents' turn up at
my little language school; after a while it becomes clear
that they are far more interested in my programs than either
my school or my teaching methods. They eventually get round
to asking if I can sell them a CD or 2 with Windows versions
of my programs.

Lying, I tell them that I am unable to produce programs for Windows.

Why? Because in Bulgaria, where "software pirate" is synonymous
with "saint" I know that copies of my programs would be round
the town, and the country, quicker than you can say "Georgi Parvanov"
(the 'socialist' President).

Now, why should I worry about that? Because my programs are
"quite valuable and relevant" to my business; and in a country
where legal protection seems only to be available to the Mafia
(a word which is often, if not always, synonymous for Big
Business) I "keep my a** covered".

An owner of a large EFL chain of schools in Bulgaria offered me
a sum which I calculated to be what a class of 20 children make in
2 weeks for my programs; that would give me a fortnight's income
and reduce the attraction of my school down to about 30% of what
it is now - suicide for a fast buck!

I don't pretend to understand business; but I do understand
Darwin's theory of evolution, and I do understand cannibalism.
While both Darwin's theory and cannibalism may not apply to
how we got here (c.f. Douglas Adams' theory) they certainly
seem to apply to how businesses function.

It is also sometimes the case that humans will destroy other
humans not because there is real competition, but because there
is a perceived encroachment onto territory already occupied, or
onto territory that has been ear-marked for occupation.



Having said that . . . part of me says "go and kick sand in the faces
of the bullies" :)



sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


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ANN: DIFfersifier 3.4 released - convert your stacks

[Mark Schonewille]

Dear Revolution  users,

It might be interesting for you to know that DIFfersifier 3.4 is now  
available. DIFfersifier is a simple conversion utility that exports  
text data from HyperCard, Revolution and MetaCard stacks to files that  
can be read by most database applications.


This version of DIFfersifier completes the XML export feature. The  
documentation has been updated and navigation in the Help window has  
been improved.  For more information on DIFfersifier 3.4, please visit  
the website .


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Snapper Screen Recorder is now available for Windows! Download it at .


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Randall Reetz

[Richmond Mathewson]

Randall Reetz wrote;

  "moderen (sic) democratic societies"

I just love those 2 words: 'modern' and 'democratic'.

Both those words (which are fairly vacant semantically) have coursed
more misunderstanding and harm than almost all the other words
in English put together.

Of course while *somebody* is shoving his bigoted, ethno-culturo-centric
view down Ruslan's throat, I would like to remind everybody on this
use-list that the so-called 'Western Democracies' are not the only
models for a successful and harmonious society - err, come to think of
it - when I think of a 'western democracy' where everybodies' creativity
is stifled by the threat of being sued for vast sums I don't feel
harmonious at all.

Randall Reetz wrote "israel"

Ha, ha, ha: I, at least, have lived there (Israel/Palestine/Canaan/the Holy 
Land/think-of-a-name-that-reflects-your-personal-prejudices) 
and worked there, and am well aware of how "fair" contracts are there; 
and that isn't even dragging in the institutionalised racism.

Randall's attitude makes me fell queasy; I'm off for a lie down.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.




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RE: illegal creativity?

[Randall Reetz]

Dude, i asked you for your own story.  There are 60 people on this 
planet. I could find you a person who was bitten by a polar bear on the south 
pole.  That doesnt make it a trend worth worrying about. Sad.

-Original Message-
From: "Brian Yennie" 
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 3/21/2009 2:10 AM
Subject: Re: illegal creativity?

Here's an example just to get you started:
http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/07/15/blizzard-wins-lawsuit-against-bot-makers/

I actually disagree with the judgement and think it sets a dangerous  
precedent. But guess what, the boogieman won.

> Really, please do tell me of the times you have been sued for breach  
> of a software user agreement.  I cant wait to hear how often this  
> blight has been brought down apon your small business. Come on.  Is  
> this a joke?
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Brian Yennie" 
> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> Sent: 3/21/2009 1:25 AM
> Subject: Re: illegal creativity?
>
> Randall,
>
> Beside your questionable grasp of the law, you are making a straw man
> argument. Even if "reasonable man" arguments worked as simply as you
> imagine, it wouldn't follow that everything in a EULA other than
> copyright is unenforceable. Believe it or not, licensing agreements
> cover things other than copyright and sometimes are even upheld.
>
> Furthermore, being "right" doesn't necessarily keep a small business
> from being put out of business by a lawsuit. Often times the larger
> entity just needs enough collateral damage (even in losing the case)
> to ruin you.
>
> It seems like you have been reading too much SlashDot and running too
> few businesses.
>
>> I didnt know i was conversing with people from north korea and
>> iran.  In the us, japan, canada, mexico, brazil, iceland, south
>> africa, russia, israel, india, and most of europe, etc. There is a
>> difference between criminal law and civil contract law.  In most
>> moderen democratic societies, the wording in product contracts are
>> considdered about as binding as santa or the stuff car salesmen say
>> right before they go off to "talk to the manager".  And that is
>> because of a liile thing called "the reasonable man".  This
>> basically means that a contract or law cannot be inforced if it goes
>> outside of what would be reasonably considdered fair.  Ant that is
>> because guys sitting behind big expensive oak drsks making big
>> salaries baid for by big companies can not be assumed to ever act
>> like reasonable men (bias and conflict of interest is a given).
>> Criminal law on the other hand is written by people we vote for and
>> require to "uphold the constitution".  No such standerd is expected
>> in contract law.  The only thing you can be expected to do when you
>> purchace software is to not copy and sell it.  The rest is
>> hilariously written bs and the court treats it as so. Sorry.  The
>> truth.
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: "Ruslan Zasukhin" 
>> To: "use-revolution" 
>> Sent: 3/21/2009 12:13 AM
>> Subject: Re: illegal creativity?
>>
>> On 3/21/09 4:13 AM, "Randall Reetz"  wrote:
>>
>>> All mosquitos are relevant.  It is scale that matters here.  Scale
>>> and
>>> reality.  Else all of us would be behind bars and prohibited from
>>> buying crest


[truncated by sender]
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illegal creaticity?

[Richmond Mathewson]

Unlike Brian Yennie most of my work is, by most people's
standards, 'tinkering around', at least insofar as I develo
educational software to be deployed over 4 computers 

However, from time to time, 'potential parents' turn up at
my little language school; after a while it becomes clear
that they are far more interested in my programs than either
my school or my teaching methods. They eventually get round
to asking if I can sell them a CD or 2 with Windows versions
of my programs.

Lying, I tell them that I am unable to produce programs for Windows.

Why? Because in Bulgaria, where "software pirate" is synonymous
with "saint" I know that copies of my programs would be round
the town, and the country, quicker than you can say "Georgi Parvanov"
(the 'socialist' President).

Now, why should I worry about that? Because my programs are
"quite valuable and relevant" to my business; and in a country
where legal protection seems only to be available to the Mafia
(a word which is often, if not always, synonymous for Big
Business) I "keep my a** covered".

An owner of a large EFL chain of schools in Bulgaria offered me
a sum which I calculated to be what a class of 20 children make in
2 weeks for my programs; that would give me a fortnight's income
and reduce the attraction of my school down to about 30% of what
it is now - suicide for a fast buck!

I don't pretend to understand business; but I do understand
Darwin's theory of evolution, and I do understand cannibalism.
While both Darwin's theory and cannibalism may not apply to
how we got here (c.f. Douglas Adams' theory) they certainly
seem to apply to how businesses function.

It is also sometimes the case that humans will destroy other
humans not because there is real competition, but because there
is a perceived encroachment onto territory already occupied, or
onto territory that has been ear-marked for occupation.



Having said that . . . part of me says "go and kick sand in the faces
of the bullies" :)



sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.




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RE: Tags in dialog boxes and the command: resetAll

[Jim Bufalini]

Hi Scott,

> I have to say this again, it drives me flippin nuts that I cannot use
> the
> answer dialog to view raw tagged code any more.  Any time a string with
> tags
> is answered, the dialog automatically tries to render them.  What if
> one
> doesn't want this?  What if one wants to debug some lines of HTML or
> XML?
> The code has to be dumped into a field or similar.
> 
> There should be some means to "answer" raw tagged code without
> rendering.

I have to say I've always considered this a great "feature," which was added
in I forget what version of Rev, but not too long ago (my sense of time can
be warped sometimes ;-).

As to "raw," I have a stack called Dialog, which I add as a substack to
anywhere I need this or custom dialog. It has a Prompt field and OK, Cancel,
buttons, etc. So for raw, I put into the field Prompt and go stack Dialog.
For formatted, I put into the HTMLtext of field Prompt. Probably not the
most elegant solution, but it works.

This said, I agree, it wouldn't hurt to have a "raw" flag added to
answer/ask. But, you know, no matter what RunRev adds to answer/ask, someone
will always need "more" or "different." So why not roll your own? ;-)

Aloha from Hawaii,

Jim Bufalini

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Re: illegal creativity?

[Brian Yennie]

Here's an example just to get you started:
http://www.wowinsider.com/2008/07/15/blizzard-wins-lawsuit-against-bot-makers/

I actually disagree with the judgement and think it sets a dangerous  
precedent. But guess what, the boogieman won.


Really, please do tell me of the times you have been sued for breach  
of a software user agreement.  I cant wait to hear how often this  
blight has been brought down apon your small business. Come on.  Is  
this a joke?


-Original Message-
From: "Brian Yennie" 
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 3/21/2009 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: illegal creativity?

Randall,

Beside your questionable grasp of the law, you are making a straw man
argument. Even if "reasonable man" arguments worked as simply as you
imagine, it wouldn't follow that everything in a EULA other than
copyright is unenforceable. Believe it or not, licensing agreements
cover things other than copyright and sometimes are even upheld.

Furthermore, being "right" doesn't necessarily keep a small business
from being put out of business by a lawsuit. Often times the larger
entity just needs enough collateral damage (even in losing the case)
to ruin you.

It seems like you have been reading too much SlashDot and running too
few businesses.


I didnt know i was conversing with people from north korea and
iran.  In the us, japan, canada, mexico, brazil, iceland, south
africa, russia, israel, india, and most of europe, etc. There is a
difference between criminal law and civil contract law.  In most
moderen democratic societies, the wording in product contracts are
considdered about as binding as santa or the stuff car salesmen say
right before they go off to "talk to the manager".  And that is
because of a liile thing called "the reasonable man".  This
basically means that a contract or law cannot be inforced if it goes
outside of what would be reasonably considdered fair.  Ant that is
because guys sitting behind big expensive oak drsks making big
salaries baid for by big companies can not be assumed to ever act
like reasonable men (bias and conflict of interest is a given).
Criminal law on the other hand is written by people we vote for and
require to "uphold the constitution".  No such standerd is expected
in contract law.  The only thing you can be expected to do when you
purchace software is to not copy and sell it.  The rest is
hilariously written bs and the court treats it as so. Sorry.  The
truth.

-Original Message-
From: "Ruslan Zasukhin" 
To: "use-revolution" 
Sent: 3/21/2009 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: illegal creativity?

On 3/21/09 4:13 AM, "Randall Reetz"  wrote:


All mosquitos are relevant.  It is scale that matters here.  Scale
and
reality.  Else all of us would be behind bars and prohibited from
buying crest
toothpaste.  Fair use and happy customers build brand loyalty
faster than fear
and loathing.  Not only that, customer inovation and parasitic
coevolution is
a sign of health and currency.  The lawyers play second fiddle to
the guys in
marketing and sales.


Randall,

I will add 2 cents ONCE.

If you vote publicly to break EULA of product which you have buy,  
then

excuse me -- you publicly cry that you are a criminal man.

Please understand this.




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---
Brian Yennie
QLD Learning
(310)-367-7364


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RE: illegal creativity?

[Randall Reetz]

Really, please do tell me of the times you have been sued for breach of a 
software user agreement.  I cant wait to hear how often this blight has been 
brought down apon your small business. Come on.  Is this a joke?  

-Original Message-
From: "Brian Yennie" 
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 3/21/2009 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: illegal creativity?

Randall,

Beside your questionable grasp of the law, you are making a straw man  
argument. Even if "reasonable man" arguments worked as simply as you  
imagine, it wouldn't follow that everything in a EULA other than  
copyright is unenforceable. Believe it or not, licensing agreements  
cover things other than copyright and sometimes are even upheld.

Furthermore, being "right" doesn't necessarily keep a small business  
from being put out of business by a lawsuit. Often times the larger  
entity just needs enough collateral damage (even in losing the case)  
to ruin you.

It seems like you have been reading too much SlashDot and running too  
few businesses.

> I didnt know i was conversing with people from north korea and  
> iran.  In the us, japan, canada, mexico, brazil, iceland, south  
> africa, russia, israel, india, and most of europe, etc. There is a  
> difference between criminal law and civil contract law.  In most  
> moderen democratic societies, the wording in product contracts are  
> considdered about as binding as santa or the stuff car salesmen say  
> right before they go off to "talk to the manager".  And that is  
> because of a liile thing called "the reasonable man".  This  
> basically means that a contract or law cannot be inforced if it goes  
> outside of what would be reasonably considdered fair.  Ant that is  
> because guys sitting behind big expensive oak drsks making big  
> salaries baid for by big companies can not be assumed to ever act  
> like reasonable men (bias and conflict of interest is a given).   
> Criminal law on the other hand is written by people we vote for and  
> require to "uphold the constitution".  No such standerd is expected  
> in contract law.  The only thing you can be expected to do when you  
> purchace software is to not copy and sell it.  The rest is  
> hilariously written bs and the court treats it as so. Sorry.  The  
> truth.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Ruslan Zasukhin" 
> To: "use-revolution" 
> Sent: 3/21/2009 12:13 AM
> Subject: Re: illegal creativity?
>
> On 3/21/09 4:13 AM, "Randall Reetz"  wrote:
>
>> All mosquitos are relevant.  It is scale that matters here.  Scale  
>> and
>> reality.  Else all of us would be behind bars and prohibited from  
>> buying crest
>> toothpaste.  Fair use and happy customers build brand loyalty  
>> faster than fear
>> and loathing.  Not only that, customer inovation and parasitic  
>> coevolution is
>> a sign of health and currency.  The lawyers play second fiddle to  
>> the guys in
>> marketing and sales.
>
> Randall,
>
> I will add 2 cents ONCE.
>
> If you vote publicly to break EULA of product which you have buy, then
> excuse me -- you publicly cry that you are a criminal man.
>
> Please understand this.
>


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RE: illegal creativity?

[Randall Reetz]

Well you are making a hell of a case for why threats work.  Keep believeing in 
monsters and the corporate lawyers will keep selling you night lights. Sleep 
good.  Story time is over. 

-Original Message-
From: "Brian Yennie" 
To: "How to use Revolution" 
Sent: 3/21/2009 1:25 AM
Subject: Re: illegal creativity?

Randall,

Beside your questionable grasp of the law, you are making a straw man  
argument. Even if "reasonable man" arguments worked as simply as you  
imagine, it wouldn't follow that everything in a EULA other than  
copyright is unenforceable. Believe it or not, licensing agreements  
cover things other than copyright and sometimes are even upheld.

Furthermore, being "right" doesn't necessarily keep a small business  
from being put out of business by a lawsuit. Often times the larger  
entity just needs enough collateral damage (even in losing the case)  
to ruin you.

It seems like you have been reading too much SlashDot and running too  
few businesses.

> I didnt know i was conversing with people from north korea and  
> iran.  In the us, japan, canada, mexico, brazil, iceland, south  
> africa, russia, israel, india, and most of europe, etc. There is a  
> difference between criminal law and civil contract law.  In most  
> moderen democratic societies, the wording in product contracts are  
> considdered about as binding as santa or the stuff car salesmen say  
> right before they go off to "talk to the manager".  And that is  
> because of a liile thing called "the reasonable man".  This  
> basically means that a contract or law cannot be inforced if it goes  
> outside of what would be reasonably considdered fair.  Ant that is  
> because guys sitting behind big expensive oak drsks making big  
> salaries baid for by big companies can not be assumed to ever act  
> like reasonable men (bias and conflict of interest is a given).   
> Criminal law on the other hand is written by people we vote for and  
> require to "uphold the constitution".  No such standerd is expected  
> in contract law.  The only thing you can be expected to do when you  
> purchace software is to not copy and sell it.  The rest is  
> hilariously written bs and the court treats it as so. Sorry.  The  
> truth.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Ruslan Zasukhin" 
> To: "use-revolution" 
> Sent: 3/21/2009 12:13 AM
> Subject: Re: illegal creativity?
>
> On 3/21/09 4:13 AM, "Randall Reetz"  wrote:
>
>> All mosquitos are relevant.  It is scale that matters here.  Scale  
>> and
>> reality.  Else all of us would be behind bars and prohibited from  
>> buying crest
>> toothpaste.  Fair use and happy customers build brand loyalty  
>> faster than fear
>> and loathing.  Not only that, customer inovation and parasitic  
>> coevolution is
>> a sign of health and currency.  The lawyers play second fiddle to  
>> the guys in
>> marketing and sales.
>
> Randall,
>
> I will add 2 cents ONCE.
>
> If you vote publicly to break EULA of product which you have buy, then
> excuse me -- you publicly cry that you are a criminal man.
>
> Please understand this.
>


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Re: illegal creativity?

[Brian Yennie]

Randall,

Beside your questionable grasp of the law, you are making a straw man  
argument. Even if "reasonable man" arguments worked as simply as you  
imagine, it wouldn't follow that everything in a EULA other than  
copyright is unenforceable. Believe it or not, licensing agreements  
cover things other than copyright and sometimes are even upheld.


Furthermore, being "right" doesn't necessarily keep a small business  
from being put out of business by a lawsuit. Often times the larger  
entity just needs enough collateral damage (even in losing the case)  
to ruin you.


It seems like you have been reading too much SlashDot and running too  
few businesses.


I didnt know i was conversing with people from north korea and  
iran.  In the us, japan, canada, mexico, brazil, iceland, south  
africa, russia, israel, india, and most of europe, etc. There is a  
difference between criminal law and civil contract law.  In most  
moderen democratic societies, the wording in product contracts are  
considdered about as binding as santa or the stuff car salesmen say  
right before they go off to "talk to the manager".  And that is  
because of a liile thing called "the reasonable man".  This  
basically means that a contract or law cannot be inforced if it goes  
outside of what would be reasonably considdered fair.  Ant that is  
because guys sitting behind big expensive oak drsks making big  
salaries baid for by big companies can not be assumed to ever act  
like reasonable men (bias and conflict of interest is a given).   
Criminal law on the other hand is written by people we vote for and  
require to "uphold the constitution".  No such standerd is expected  
in contract law.  The only thing you can be expected to do when you  
purchace software is to not copy and sell it.  The rest is  
hilariously written bs and the court treats it as so. Sorry.  The  
truth.


-Original Message-
From: "Ruslan Zasukhin" 
To: "use-revolution" 
Sent: 3/21/2009 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: illegal creativity?

On 3/21/09 4:13 AM, "Randall Reetz"  wrote:

All mosquitos are relevant.  It is scale that matters here.  Scale  
and
reality.  Else all of us would be behind bars and prohibited from  
buying crest
toothpaste.  Fair use and happy customers build brand loyalty  
faster than fear
and loathing.  Not only that, customer inovation and parasitic  
coevolution is
a sign of health and currency.  The lawyers play second fiddle to  
the guys in

marketing and sales.


Randall,

I will add 2 cents ONCE.

If you vote publicly to break EULA of product which you have buy, then
excuse me -- you publicly cry that you are a criminal man.

Please understand this.

When you buy a product you read its EULA and say AGREE.
I.e. You PROMISE follow it. You have give your honest word.
Right?

If you do not like EULA of product then you should not buy it or use  
it.

Right?

EULA is kind of "contract" between vendor and YOU.
Right?

If you say publicly that you is ready break your own
   small contract/EULA = law

Then we can assume you can say go head, do not follow laws of your  
country

at all? Go and kill? Go and stole things from people?

I do not think you ready say this :)
EULA is also small law.


IF your product not fit limits of EULA of some product always  
possible talk
to vendor and negotiate some special contract with conditions your  
product

needs. Easy and valid way.

Also your idea that break EULA and they can buy you is FALSE.
Competition? Right Randall. IF company have write into EULA some  
limits then

obviously company thinks that break of this limits can hurt it market.

Company is not stupid to prohibit something that will looks like value
addition to its market. Clear? :-)


--
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]

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RE: illegal creativity?

[Randall Reetz]

I didnt know i was conversing with people from north korea and iran.  In the 
us, japan, canada, mexico, brazil, iceland, south africa, russia, israel, 
india, and most of europe, etc. There is a difference between criminal law and 
civil contract law.  In most moderen democratic societies, the wording in 
product contracts are considdered about as binding as santa or the stuff car 
salesmen say right before they go off to "talk to the manager".  And that is 
because of a liile thing called "the reasonable man".  This basically means 
that a contract or law cannot be inforced if it goes outside of what would be 
reasonably considdered fair.  Ant that is because guys sitting behind big 
expensive oak drsks making big salaries baid for by big companies can not be 
assumed to ever act like reasonable men (bias and conflict of interest is a 
given).  Criminal law on the other hand is written by people we vote for and 
require to "uphold the constitution".  No such standerd is expected in contract 
law.  The only thing you can be expected to do when you purchace software is to 
not copy and sell it.  The rest is hilariously written bs and the court treats 
it as so. Sorry.  The truth.

-Original Message-
From: "Ruslan Zasukhin" 
To: "use-revolution" 
Sent: 3/21/2009 12:13 AM
Subject: Re: illegal creativity?

On 3/21/09 4:13 AM, "Randall Reetz"  wrote:

> All mosquitos are relevant.  It is scale that matters here.  Scale and
> reality.  Else all of us would be behind bars and prohibited from buying crest
> toothpaste.  Fair use and happy customers build brand loyalty faster than fear
> and loathing.  Not only that, customer inovation and parasitic coevolution is
> a sign of health and currency.  The lawyers play second fiddle to the guys in
> marketing and sales.

Randall,

I will add 2 cents ONCE.

If you vote publicly to break EULA of product which you have buy, then
excuse me -- you publicly cry that you are a criminal man.

Please understand this.

When you buy a product you read its EULA and say AGREE.
I.e. You PROMISE follow it. You have give your honest word.
Right?

If you do not like EULA of product then you should not buy it or use it.
Right?

EULA is kind of "contract" between vendor and YOU.
Right?

If you say publicly that you is ready break your own
small contract/EULA = law

Then we can assume you can say go head, do not follow laws of your country
at all? Go and kill? Go and stole things from people?

I do not think you ready say this :)
EULA is also small law.


IF your product not fit limits of EULA of some product always possible talk
to vendor and negotiate some special contract with conditions your product
needs. Easy and valid way.

Also your idea that break EULA and they can buy you is FALSE.
Competition? Right Randall. IF company have write into EULA some limits then
obviously company thinks that break of this limits can hurt it market.

Company is not stupid to prohibit something that will looks like value
addition to its market. Clear? :-)


-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]


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Re: illegal creativity?

[Ruslan Zasukhin]

On 3/21/09 4:13 AM, "Randall Reetz"  wrote:

> All mosquitos are relevant.  It is scale that matters here.  Scale and
> reality.  Else all of us would be behind bars and prohibited from buying crest
> toothpaste.  Fair use and happy customers build brand loyalty faster than fear
> and loathing.  Not only that, customer inovation and parasitic coevolution is
> a sign of health and currency.  The lawyers play second fiddle to the guys in
> marketing and sales.

Randall,

I will add 2 cents ONCE.

If you vote publicly to break EULA of product which you have buy, then
excuse me -- you publicly cry that you are a criminal man.

Please understand this.

When you buy a product you read its EULA and say AGREE.
I.e. You PROMISE follow it. You have give your honest word.
Right?

If you do not like EULA of product then you should not buy it or use it.
Right?

EULA is kind of "contract" between vendor and YOU.
Right?

If you say publicly that you is ready break your own
small contract/EULA = law

Then we can assume you can say go head, do not follow laws of your country
at all? Go and kill? Go and stole things from people?

I do not think you ready say this :)
EULA is also small law.


IF your product not fit limits of EULA of some product always possible talk
to vendor and negotiate some special contract with conditions your product
needs. Easy and valid way.

Also your idea that break EULA and they can buy you is FALSE.
Competition? Right Randall. IF company have write into EULA some limits then
obviously company thinks that break of this limits can hurt it market.

Company is not stupid to prohibit something that will looks like value
addition to its market. Clear? :-)


-- 
Best regards,

Ruslan Zasukhin
VP Engineering and New Technology
Paradigma Software, Inc

Valentina - Joining Worlds of Information
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

[I feel the need: the need for speed]


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