Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Chipp Walters]

Yes. That is how many people feel about this situation. Still, Rev by 
themselves can do nothing to challenge it. Perhaps Adobe can.

BTW, just so no one thinks I'm an Adobe apologist-- I have worked closely with 
a number of individuals there and I have seen firsthand serious issues with 
their business processes. I wouldn't call them illegal, but inept might fit the 
bill.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On May 7, 2010, at 12:37 AM, Randall Lee Reetz  wrote:

> I disagree.  The federal trade commission will disagree.  Apple is up a tree 
> on this one.  They might be able to say the source has to be run through 
> their compiler, but they can't demand that it is written on their 
> typewriters.  
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RE: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Lee Reetz]

I disagree.  The federal trade commission will disagree.  Apple is up a tree on 
this one.  They might be able to say the source has to be run through their 
compiler, but they can't demand that it is written on their typewriters.  So if 
you show them that you will give them access to pre-compiled source, they will 
be more then happy.  They aren't trying to sell their IDE.  They just want in 
at the source code level.  I would too.

-Original Message-
From: Chipp Walters 
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 10:30 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

It's not about axes to grind-- it's just about business. Apple has stated they 
don't want cross platform dev tools for iPhone. Period. Why would Rev consider 
trying to go around their wishes without their expressed consent?

Let's take an example. Say you're Adobe's CEO, and you just finished spending 
millions of dollars building CS5 for Flash. It compiles beautifully into fast 
iPhone compatible binaries and now you believe you have a great authoring 
environment for iPhone which will sell millions of copies. But, Apple goes out 
of it's way to rewrite their licensing terms JUST so THAT doesn't happen.

So, you're sitting in a 'What's next?' meeting and someone tells you:

"You know, we can modify our CS5 compiler to spit out Xcode compatible C and it 
will only take another year and another million bucks." 

What do you do? Apple's made it pretty clear they'll do whatever it takes to 
keep you off their platform. If you say, "Go ahead," then I would fire you, as 
would all of your shareholders.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On May 7, 2010, at 12:01 AM, Randall Reetz  wrote:

> Adobe has an axe to grind.  Rev doesn't, (or does it?).  Rev needs to be 
> nimble and adaptive, play nice… the benevolent parasite.
> 
> Randall
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RE: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Yes, I have read it several times.  But apple is grasping here.  What matters 
is what they are motivated by (what is behind the rule).  Apple is getting bad 
press and worse.  They want a solution that doesn't cause a riot.  So I ask 
again, what would it take to export C source?  That way apple can keep its 
fingers in everything (i think that is what thay are after).  And rev shouldn't 
care.  Adobe does, but rev shouldn't.  Win win win.  Apple says providence but 
means access at the compiler stage.  That is my bet.  Anyone at rev asked jobs 
this yet?

-Original Message-
From: Richard Gaskin 
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 10:08 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Randall Reetz wrote:

 > But nobody has answered my proposal.  Why not write an xtalk to C
 > source (not binary or byte code) translator?

Now it's four times:



keyword: provenance


--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
  revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv


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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Chipp Walters]

It's not about axes to grind-- it's just about business. Apple has stated they 
don't want cross platform dev tools for iPhone. Period. Why would Rev consider 
trying to go around their wishes without their expressed consent?

Let's take an example. Say you're Adobe's CEO, and you just finished spending 
millions of dollars building CS5 for Flash. It compiles beautifully into fast 
iPhone compatible binaries and now you believe you have a great authoring 
environment for iPhone which will sell millions of copies. But, Apple goes out 
of it's way to rewrite their licensing terms JUST so THAT doesn't happen.

So, you're sitting in a 'What's next?' meeting and someone tells you:

"You know, we can modify our CS5 compiler to spit out Xcode compatible C and it 
will only take another year and another million bucks." 

What do you do? Apple's made it pretty clear they'll do whatever it takes to 
keep you off their platform. If you say, "Go ahead," then I would fire you, as 
would all of your shareholders.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On May 7, 2010, at 12:01 AM, Randall Reetz  wrote:

> Adobe has an axe to grind.  Rev doesn't, (or does it?).  Rev needs to be 
> nimble and adaptive, play nice… the benevolent parasite.
> 
> Randall
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Re: Selected object "boxes"

[JosepM]

Or maybe reduze the size of the handles (found the word :) changing  
some pattern...?

Salut,
Josep

El 07/05/2010, a las 5:40, J. Landman Gay [via Runtime Revolution]  
escribió:

> JosepM wrote:
> > Hi List,
> >
> > I don't know how to refer to this boxes, maybe the anchor points  
> to resize
> > the object.
>
> We call them "handles".
>
> > I need make invisible the boxes that appear when draw a polygon or  
> circle,
> > the dark grey boxes around the graphic. I need to draw a polygon  
> but without
> > show these anchor boxes, so they difficult the draw.
> >
> > It's posible?
>
> The engine puts handles on the graphic whenever it is selected in edit
> mode. Your script can create a graphic without using edit mode and  
> there
> will be no handles:
>
>create graphic "newGrc"
>
> If you need to resize the graphic, you'd have to figure out the
> rectangle and then set it by script:
>
>set the rect of grc "newGrc" to a,b,x,y
>
> As long as you are not in edit mode there will be no handles.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Selected object "boxes"

[JosepM]

OK. Thanks.

El 07/05/2010, a las 5:35, dunbarx [via Runtime Revolution] escribió:

> I wrote a live resizing gadget a while back. Works under script  
> control,
> not the IDE tools. Likely someone will post a full application in  
> the next few
> minutes, but if not, I will send mine tomorrow when I get to my  
> office.
>
> Craig Newman
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Re: Selected object "boxes"

[JosepM]

Hi,

But I need that the user create the poly on the fly, making a "layer",  
so with create graphic this is fixed, isn't?

El 07/05/2010, a las 5:40, J. Landman Gay [via Runtime Revolution]  
escribió:

> JosepM wrote:
> > Hi List,
> >
> > I don't know how to refer to this boxes, maybe the anchor points  
> to resize
> > the object.
>
> We call them "handles".
>
> > I need make invisible the boxes that appear when draw a polygon or  
> circle,
> > the dark grey boxes around the graphic. I need to draw a polygon  
> but without
> > show these anchor boxes, so they difficult the draw.
> >
> > It's posible?
>
> The engine puts handles on the graphic whenever it is selected in edit
> mode. Your script can create a graphic without using edit mode and  
> there
> will be no handles:
>
>create graphic "newGrc"
>
> If you need to resize the graphic, you'd have to figure out the
> rectangle and then set it by script:
>
>set the rect of grc "newGrc" to a,b,x,y
>
> As long as you are not in edit mode there will be no handles.
>
> -- 
> Jacqueline Landman Gay | [hidden email]
> HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your  
> subscription preferences:
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>
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> To unsubscribe from Selected object "boxes", click here.
>


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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Richard Gaskin]

Randall Reetz wrote:

> But nobody has answered my proposal.  Why not write an xtalk to C
> source (not binary or byte code) translator?

Now it's four times:



keyword: provenance


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv


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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Reetz]

OK, well I get all of this.  Apple is slimy (at least while it is going all ape 
sh__ on adobe).  But nobody has answered my proposal.  Why not write an xtalk 
to C source (not binary or byte code) translator?  That way, it is trivial to 
copy and paste source into apple's blessed IDE (or anyone else's for that 
matter).  Apple wants its hands into the source, pre-compiler, so give it to 
them!  I know apple, like any platform, is a moving target(s).  But that is the 
name of the game in high tech.  Moore's law and such.  Rev is a great tool.  
But it isn't a tool that is in charge.  Playing catchup is always risky.  Most 
if not all of the revMobile IP is transferable to a scheme like the one I have 
suggested. All of the emulators and IDEs continue to do what they were meant to 
do.  It is just output that has to be adjusted.  I am guessing that Rev is a C 
or Java based IP set anyway.  I can see why that lent it self to byte code 
export.  Oh well.  If Rev was to offer another revenue option, where the rev 
community was given the choice to pay substantially less for the product and 
agree to give up a percentage of any revenue generated through the sale of 
apps, it might incentivize rev to go deeper into this upfront investment.  I 
would gladly enter into such an agreement.  Seems only fair.  Why shouldn't Rev 
benefit if I should benefit from Rev products?  Also, that would take the 
purchasing burden off of kids and students and others who might want to explore 
but aren't sure they want to pay hundreds of dollars just to see if Rev or 
programming is their cup of tea.  I don't know if it is myth or fact, but the 
hype surrounding app sales is pretty astounding.  Gold rush like.  Rev could 
make a lot of money if they got residuals from rev built apps when they sell.

So, how much harder would it be to output decently formed C source from Rev 
stacks than it is to output byte code?  Anyone know?

Adobe has an axe to grind.  Rev doesn't, (or does it?).  Rev needs to be nimble 
and adaptive, play nice… the benevolent parasite.

Randall


On May 6, 2010, at 9:42 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> There's a huge problem with your argument regarding the Apple situation. 
> First off, most every vendor who creates cross platform binaries for the iPad 
> has confirmed they can incorporate any of the features which Apple's toolset 
> requires-- no problems. This is not a technical issue. 
> 
> But the much larger issue is one of trust and intent. Clearly, Apple does not 
> want third party toolsets writing binaries for their platform. Jobs has 
> stated such. Their license even states what they want the "original" code to 
> be programmed in. What would make someone like Adobe, or RunRev want to 
> invest even more dollars 'getting around the license' when Apple could just 
> as swiftly revise their license terms once again?
> 
> While one could not and should not blame Adobe or RunRev for the first 
> mistake of trying to comply, only to be thwarted by totally unexpected 
> changes in a 4.0 (not 1,2 or 3 vers) SDK license, I'm sure shareholders and 
> BOD's would not look too kindly at a management who continued on such a 
> mission, only to be thwarted again by more new changes in Apple's license. 
> 
> "First time-- shame on Apple.
> Second time-- shame on you!" 
> 
> Chipp Walters
> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc
> 
> On May 6, 2010, at 11:23 PM, Randall Lee Reetz  
> wrote:
> 
>> Yes, this is why I am suggesting that rev output  C source that can be 
>> opened within the blessed IDE.  Apple wants control at that level.  I am 
>> sure this is so that its compiler can insert com checks and interrupts for 
>> ads and tracking of monetary unit exchange.  So if that is what apple wants, 
>> give it up.  An xtalk to C source translator presents soo many 
>> opportunities.  Endless.
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Chipp Walters]

There's a huge problem with your argument regarding the Apple situation. First 
off, most every vendor who creates cross platform binaries for the iPad has 
confirmed they can incorporate any of the features which Apple's toolset 
requires-- no problems. This is not a technical issue. 

But the much larger issue is one of trust and intent. Clearly, Apple does not 
want third party toolsets writing binaries for their platform. Jobs has stated 
such. Their license even states what they want the "original" code to be 
programmed in. What would make someone like Adobe, or RunRev want to invest 
even more dollars 'getting around the license' when Apple could just as swiftly 
revise their license terms once again?

While one could not and should not blame Adobe or RunRev for the first mistake 
of trying to comply, only to be thwarted by totally unexpected changes in a 4.0 
(not 1,2 or 3 vers) SDK license, I'm sure shareholders and BOD's would not look 
too kindly at a management who continued on such a mission, only to be thwarted 
again by more new changes in Apple's license. 

"First time-- shame on Apple.
Second time-- shame on you!" 

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On May 6, 2010, at 11:23 PM, Randall Lee Reetz  wrote:

> Yes, this is why I am suggesting that rev output  C source that can be opened 
> within the blessed IDE.  Apple wants control at that level.  I am sure this 
> is so that its compiler can insert com checks and interrupts for ads and 
> tracking of monetary unit exchange.  So if that is what apple wants, give it 
> up.  An xtalk to C source translator presents soo many opportunities.  
> Endless.
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RE: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Yes, this is why I am suggesting that rev output  C source that can be opened 
within the blessed IDE.  Apple wants control at that level.  I am sure this is 
so that its compiler can insert com checks and interrupts for ads and tracking 
of monetary unit exchange.  So if that is what apple wants, give it up.  An 
xtalk to C source translator presents soo many opportunities.  Endless.

-Original Message-
From: Chipp Walters 
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 7:39 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Randall,

Hopefully the following can lend some perspective to you on this situation.

Previously, I misspoke. RevMobile compiles Rev code to an iPhone standalone,
which then can be run on the Mac only iPhone simulator. If you sign up for
RevMobile, you must also purchase a $99 Apple developer license and of
course have a Mac to run it on.

The key here is that RevMobile compiles to an iPhone compatible binary, just
like the latest CS5 Flash application does (or did, as Adobe has formally
pulled the plug on supporting the iPhone compiler). And just like Flash CS5,
the newly compiled code successfully bypasses the PREVIOUS license
limitation of no interpreted code-- even though many games evidently use Lua
scripts within them. Not sure what Apple thinks of that:
http://blog.anscamobile.com/2010/04/lua-the-lingua-franca-of-iphone-games/

So, while Rev (and Flash and many other dev platforms for iPhone) compile
directly to a binary, they are still in violation of the NEW SDK 4.0
recently released license which now states:

"Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or
JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written
in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the
Documented APIs"

So, now binary and compiled apps not originally written in Objective-C, C,
C++ will not be accepted by Apple. Platforms which deliver Javascript (web
browser) apps, like PhoneGap are still allowed. A legal interpretation of
the SDK 4.0 as currently written pretty much puts Flash, and Rev, and many
others, out of the business of app development for iPhone/iPad.

So, originally Apple wanted to discourage interpreted languages, like
Revtalk, Actionscript, and others from access to the iPhone. Of course all
the companies understood the rules, and many, like Rev, spent major
resources, and time  trying to comply by creating compatible standalone
binaries. Not an insignificant task. And none of them, or their customers,
or their customers customers had any notion the rules would or even could
change.

As soon as Jobs saw the new Flash CS5 (in the form of Flash CS5-- of which
I'm told there are already a hundred of so apps in the AppStore under the
previous SDK license), he rewrote the license to make sure none of these
applications could now be used. I say Jobs and not Apple, because if you
have followed this closely, you would know Jobs is the one behind it all.
Whether or not you agree with him is up to you.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Randall Lee Reetz
wrote:

> Really?  It takes a rev stack and converts all content into OBJECTIVE C
> source.  Inserts it into the apple blessed ipad IDE, and then compiles an
> app in the apple blessed IDE?  How would apple know or care where the app
> spent its early years?  I don't think that is how revmobile works.  Not
> exactly.  Am I wrong?  Does a revmoblile user have to have a mac running the
> apple blessed IDE?
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Re: Selected object "boxes"

[J. Landman Gay]

JosepM wrote:

Hi List,

I don't know how to refer to this boxes, maybe the anchor points to resize
the object.


We call them "handles".


I need make invisible the boxes that appear when draw a polygon or circle,
the dark grey boxes around the graphic. I need to draw a polygon but without
show these anchor boxes, so they difficult the draw.

It's posible?


The engine puts handles on the graphic whenever it is selected in edit 
mode. Your script can create a graphic without using edit mode and there 
will be no handles:


  create graphic "newGrc"

If you need to resize the graphic, you'd have to figure out the 
rectangle and then set it by script:


  set the rect of grc "newGrc" to a,b,x,y

As long as you are not in edit mode there will be no handles.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Selected object "boxes"

[DunbarX]

I wrote a live resizing gadget a while back. Works under script control, 
not the IDE tools. Likely someone will post a full application in the next few 
minutes, but if not, I will send mine tomorrow when I get to my office.

Craig Newman
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How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Kurt Kaufman]

Chipp Walters:
"...So, while Rev (and Flash and many other dev platforms for iPhone) compile
directly to a binary, they are still in violation of the NEW SDK 4.0
recently released license..."

Thanks for the summary, Chipp.  I was unaware that Apple had changed the rules 
**after essentially promising something else**-- not too different from a "bait 
and switch".  I can see why developers might hesitate to create applications 
for a platform for which the powers-that-be might set up future additional 
roadblocks.
I guess Apple feels that the general public really doesn't care, and (Apple) is 
not overly-concerned about alienating multi-platform developers.  On a purely 
business level, who am I to question their strategy?  But I do think that it is 
inappropriate of Apple to suddenly shift gears and leave hanging companies who 
have invested significant time and resources to Apple mobile platform 
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Selected object "boxes"

[JosepM]

Hi List,

I don't know how to refer to this boxes, maybe the anchor points to resize
the object.
I need make invisible the boxes that appear when draw a polygon or circle,
the dark grey boxes around the graphic. I need to draw a polygon but without
show these anchor boxes, so they difficult the draw.

It's posible?

Salut,
Josep
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Re: Shiny apple-looking Android

[Thomas McGrath III]

Roger,

I have been keeping an eye on that one too. It looks nice. I don't know if it 
is the same one Adobe had at it's booth a few weeks ago but it looks the same.
Even if it isn't, it will be great to have more platforms to develop for and 
more devices. Like I've said, this can only be good for us as cross-platform 
developers. And, if I can continue to help more handicapped people with 
inexpensive and helpful software on great devices then we all win.

Tom

On May 6, 2010, at 9:20 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Roger.E.Eller wrote:
> 
>> Has anyone seen the shiny apple-looking devices that run Android?  This is
>> only a prototype, but a very impressive one.  If Rev will support Android,
>> at least there is the Android marketplace (app store) and other outlets to
>> sell apps.  Many consumers will go for these less expensive and more open
>> devices. The media playback and supported formats on this thing rocks!
>> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXmWFn2m4Rk
> 
> Nice, and timely - I noticed this morning that Android was recently added to 
> the official list of OSes to be supported by RevMobile:
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Roger . E . Eller]

Sarah Reichelt  wrote:
> On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 10:24 AM, David C.  wrote:
>>  3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner
>>  prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs.
... truncated original ...
>> Question:
>> Is it even possible for folks running Windows to use the "Blessed API"
>> as required -or- are they completely locked out of the development
>> cycle all together, sans Mac hardware ownership?
>
>
> No, Apple's development tools are Mac only.
>
> Cheers,
> Sarah

Is it possible on non-Apple hardware?... a google search says
"yes" (technically), by building a hackintosh.  But we all know that in the
professional world we must follow the rules.  For personal use, most web
sources suggest that the nerdly exercise of hackintosh building should be
limited to that, a learning exercise, and not be started without first
buying OS X from an Apple retailer. They also state that the resulting
non-apple machine should not be used for any kind of professional work when
running OS X. Depending on the machine, reviews vary about the level of
compatibility, but many hobbyists report that it works better than you
might think.  I am in no way suggesting that you consider it because it
would violate the EULA. It makes me wonder however, what would happen if
Microsoft suddenly decided to legally demand that their OS run on anything
BUT Apple hardware. Wouldn't that be a hoot?

~Roger Eller
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Chipp Walters]

Randall,

Hopefully the following can lend some perspective to you on this situation.

Previously, I misspoke. RevMobile compiles Rev code to an iPhone standalone,
which then can be run on the Mac only iPhone simulator. If you sign up for
RevMobile, you must also purchase a $99 Apple developer license and of
course have a Mac to run it on.

The key here is that RevMobile compiles to an iPhone compatible binary, just
like the latest CS5 Flash application does (or did, as Adobe has formally
pulled the plug on supporting the iPhone compiler). And just like Flash CS5,
the newly compiled code successfully bypasses the PREVIOUS license
limitation of no interpreted code-- even though many games evidently use Lua
scripts within them. Not sure what Apple thinks of that:
http://blog.anscamobile.com/2010/04/lua-the-lingua-franca-of-iphone-games/

So, while Rev (and Flash and many other dev platforms for iPhone) compile
directly to a binary, they are still in violation of the NEW SDK 4.0
recently released license which now states:

"Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++, or
JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and only code written
in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and directly link against the
Documented APIs"

So, now binary and compiled apps not originally written in Objective-C, C,
C++ will not be accepted by Apple. Platforms which deliver Javascript (web
browser) apps, like PhoneGap are still allowed. A legal interpretation of
the SDK 4.0 as currently written pretty much puts Flash, and Rev, and many
others, out of the business of app development for iPhone/iPad.

So, originally Apple wanted to discourage interpreted languages, like
Revtalk, Actionscript, and others from access to the iPhone. Of course all
the companies understood the rules, and many, like Rev, spent major
resources, and time  trying to comply by creating compatible standalone
binaries. Not an insignificant task. And none of them, or their customers,
or their customers customers had any notion the rules would or even could
change.

As soon as Jobs saw the new Flash CS5 (in the form of Flash CS5-- of which
I'm told there are already a hundred of so apps in the AppStore under the
previous SDK license), he rewrote the license to make sure none of these
applications could now be used. I say Jobs and not Apple, because if you
have followed this closely, you would know Jobs is the one behind it all.
Whether or not you agree with him is up to you.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 7:04 PM, Randall Lee Reetz
wrote:

> Really?  It takes a rev stack and converts all content into OBJECTIVE C
> source.  Inserts it into the apple blessed ipad IDE, and then compiles an
> app in the apple blessed IDE?  How would apple know or care where the app
> spent its early years?  I don't think that is how revmobile works.  Not
> exactly.  Am I wrong?  Does a revmoblile user have to have a mac running the
> apple blessed IDE?
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RE: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Lee Reetz]

I read your note richard.  It is very detailed and differs substantially from 
another person's explanation which said it works exactly as I have guessed, 
translating to C source.  Just trying to get to the actual method as that might 
allow compliance.

-Original Message-
From: Richard Gaskin 
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 5:22 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

Randall wrote:

 > Really?  It takes a rev stack and converts all content into
 > OBJECTIVE C source.  Inserts it into the apple blessed ipad
 > IDE, and then compiles an app in the apple blessed IDE?  How
 > would apple know or care where the app spent its early years?
 > I don't think that is how revmobile works.  Not exactly.  Am
 > I wrong?

You're iPhone seems to be preventing you from reading many of the posts 
here.

This has been addressed before, twice just today - here's one:


The rest of the archives from this list are available here:


In the interest of bandwidth I won't answer that question any more.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
  revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Sarah Reichelt]

On Fri, May 7, 2010 at 10:24 AM, David C.  wrote:
>>  3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner
>>  prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs.
>>  Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++,
>>  or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and
>>  only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and
>>  directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications
>>  that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation
>>  or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).
>
> Question:
> Is it even possible for folks running Windows to use the "Blessed API"
> as required -or- are they completely locked out of the development
> cycle all together, sans Mac hardware ownership?


No, Apple's development tools are Mac only.

Cheers,
Sarah
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Re: Shiny apple-looking Android

[Richard Gaskin]

Roger.E.Eller wrote:


Has anyone seen the shiny apple-looking devices that run Android?  This is
only a prototype, but a very impressive one.  If Rev will support Android,
at least there is the Android marketplace (app store) and other outlets to
sell apps.  Many consumers will go for these less expensive and more open
devices. The media playback and supported formats on this thing rocks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXmWFn2m4Rk


Nice, and timely - I noticed this morning that Android was recently 
added to the official list of OSes to be supported by RevMobile:




--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Shiny apple-looking Android

[Roger . E . Eller]

Has anyone seen the shiny apple-looking devices that run Android?  This is
only a prototype, but a very impressive one.  If Rev will support Android,
at least there is the Android marketplace (app store) and other outlets to
sell apps.  Many consumers will go for these less expensive and more open
devices. The media playback and supported formats on this thing rocks!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UXmWFn2m4Rk

~Roger Eller

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Re: US Fed Trade Commission Investigation

[stephen barncard]

You may require whatever, your existence here is at the mercy and will of
the List Mom, who will be arriving shortly. Please stop trolling.

On 6 May 2010 17:11, Randall Lee Reetz  wrote:

> Well I disagree.  Almost completely.  I value openness and full disclosure.
>  I value rhetoric free discussions digging down to truth, not influence and
> spin.  I don't require a purchase in exchange for truth and transparency.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Richard Gaskin 
> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 4:56 PM
> To: How to use Revolution 
> Subject: Re: US Fed Trade Commission Investigation
>
> Randall Lee Reetz, who has once accused everyone on this list of
> "drinking the Rev cool-aid", wrote:
>
>  > Thomas, I have looked at your web life.  You seem to make a life
>  > of hating things.
>
> Dude, please.
>
> I've known Thomas for many, many years, and have been as impressed with
> his growth as a developer as I have with his character as a man.
>
> On most days, his contributions are only of the most positive sort,
> focusing on helping people find good solutions to the problems they
> face.  He also donates a lot of code and tools to the community, and for
> all that we really like him.
>
> Sure, he's fed up with the off-topic stuff.  I think we all indulge a
> bit much, and if not Thomas than Heather would have come down as well.
>
> And sure, we all have a dog in this race, so we're all likely to get a
> little excitable now and then in response to this unusual disruption
> from Apple and its implications for our work.
>
> But I wouldn't call Thomas a hater, and I don't think this list is the
> best place for such character attacks.
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>  revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> ___
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> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
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> subscription preferences:
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>
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> subscription preferences:
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>



-- 
-
Stephen Barncard
Back home in SF
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Does this list have a moderator?

[Peter Haworth]

First of all, thank you Tom McGrath - I wholeheartedly agree with  
everything you said.


I haven't been using Revolution very long and I'm still at the stage  
where I rely on this list and the discussion forum to help me.  So far  
it has been a great experience and I haven't been exposed to the  
opinionated nonsense that I've seen on other lists but this last  
couple of weeks has been ridiculous.


If there is a moderator for this list, could he/she please stop this  
or explain why it is being allowed to continue?


Until then, I am stopping the emails I get from the list which really  
irks me because I've had a lot of very valuable advice and help from  
it.  I'll switch it on in a week or so and hope that things get back  
on topic again.


Pete Haworth


On May 6, 2010, at 5:33 PM, use-revolution-requ...@lists.runrev.com  
wrote:



Message: 1
Date: Thu, 06 May 2010 17:01:30 -0400
From: Thomas McGrath III 
Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?
To: How to use Revolution 
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252

I'm am really getting so sick of listening to this crap. Please go  
join some APPLE hating, Steve Jobs hating list. WILL YOU PLEASE.


It's getting to be too much, staying out of this freaking rhetoric  
when the comments go down this direction. What with the Hitler  
references and EVIL comments and BLAH BLAH BLAH


I use a CROSS-PLATFORM tool call RunRev and I think this has gone  
far beyond what I am willing to put up with. We have Macintosh  
developers and Windows developers and Linux developers and soon we  
are going to have Google developers and Maemo developers. We here on  
this list need to set an example of true cross-platform respect  
towards each others platform of choice.


PLEASE STOP USING OUR USE REVOLUTION LIST TO ATTACK AND DEFAME AND  
AIR YOUR PERSONAL VENDETTAS.


I don't care it you hate Apple. I don't care if you like ___  
better. I don't care if you don't like Steve Jobs. I don't care if  
you think it's wrong. I don't care what your damn opinions are.


JUST STOP

Tom McGrath


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US Fed Trade Commission Investigation

[Kurt Kaufman]

Richard Gaskin:
> Randall Reetz wrote:
> 
>>  > What about HTML 5 and web content as a runRev stack publication
>>  > option?  What does HTML 5 say about mobile devise specific input
>>  > like orientation, acceleration, position, multi-touch?
> 
> Yes, HTML5/JavaScript/WebKit is pretty much what PhoneGap is relying on, 
> and they've gotten the official green light from Apple.
> 
> As of 1:28PM on 6 May that's the only option for multi-platform 
> deployment that includes iPhone OS.
> 
> Whether or not it remains an option for iPhone OS deployment at 2:00PM 
> cannot be known by any developer or investor banking on it.
> 
> For all other OSes, however, it is reasonably well known to be a good 
> option for the foreseeable future.

--
I bought a Nokia "smart" phone recently (needed GSM for travel and felt the 
iPhone was a bit too bulky for a shirt pocket) and, on a whim, looked into 
programming options for the Symbian OS.  The free Web Runtime Kit (WRT) offered 
through the efforts of Nokia and others allows the production of HTML/CSS/JS 
widgets that can run natively on the Symbian phones, but I understand there are 
significant limitations when compared to what revMobile would be likely to 
offer for the iPhone (based on the demonstrations of the iPhone apps on the 
runrev site). Aside from the different programming languages/methods used, what 
might the combination of HTML5/JavaScript/WebKit lack that revMobile would 
offer on the iPhone/iPad?

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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[David C.]

>  3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner
>  prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs.
>  Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++,
>  or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and
>  only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and
>  directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications
>  that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation
>  or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).

Question:
Is it even possible for folks running Windows to use the "Blessed API"
as required -or- are they completely locked out of the development
cycle all together, sans Mac hardware ownership?

I no longer on a Mac (sad to say) but have also never found a Windows
version of the "Blessed SDK" to be downloaded from Apple should I even
want to try.

If that is the case, the new development license is even worse,
requiring a hardware purchase in order to have the ability to create
software for any of their products.

Inquiring minds would like to know... ;-)

Best regards,
David C.
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Richard Gaskin]

Randall wrote:

> Really?  It takes a rev stack and converts all content into
> OBJECTIVE C source.  Inserts it into the apple blessed ipad
> IDE, and then compiles an app in the apple blessed IDE?  How
> would apple know or care where the app spent its early years?
> I don't think that is how revmobile works.  Not exactly.  Am
> I wrong?

You're iPhone seems to be preventing you from reading many of the posts 
here.


This has been addressed before, twice just today - here's one:


The rest of the archives from this list are available here:


In the interest of bandwidth I won't answer that question any more.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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RE: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Lee Reetz]

When I start any project, I think for a while, I write some things down, I draw 
some flow charts, I go on a bike ride, I talk to people, I write a paper 
prototype, and then I code.

-Original Message-
From: Colin Holgate 
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 5:12 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?


On May 6, 2010, at 8:04 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

> Really?  It takes a rev stack and converts all content into OBJECTIVE C 
> source.  Inserts it into the apple blessed ipad IDE, and then compiles an app 
> in the apple blessed IDE?  How would apple know or care where the app spent 
> its early years?


With your example workflow they would have no way to know where the app started 
its early years, but you would still have gone against the agreement, because 
it didn't originate as Objective-C.
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Colin Holgate]

On May 6, 2010, at 8:04 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

> Really?  It takes a rev stack and converts all content into OBJECTIVE C 
> source.  Inserts it into the apple blessed ipad IDE, and then compiles an app 
> in the apple blessed IDE?  How would apple know or care where the app spent 
> its early years?


With your example workflow they would have no way to know where the app started 
its early years, but you would still have gone against the agreement, because 
it didn't originate as Objective-C.
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RE: US Fed Trade Commission Investigation

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Well I disagree.  Almost completely.  I value openness and full disclosure.  I 
value rhetoric free discussions digging down to truth, not influence and spin.  
I don't require a purchase in exchange for truth and transparency. 

-Original Message-
From: Richard Gaskin 
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 4:56 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: US Fed Trade Commission Investigation

Randall Lee Reetz, who has once accused everyone on this list of 
"drinking the Rev cool-aid", wrote:

 > Thomas, I have looked at your web life.  You seem to make a life
 > of hating things.

Dude, please.

I've known Thomas for many, many years, and have been as impressed with 
his growth as a developer as I have with his character as a man.

On most days, his contributions are only of the most positive sort, 
focusing on helping people find good solutions to the problems they 
face.  He also donates a lot of code and tools to the community, and for 
all that we really like him.

Sure, he's fed up with the off-topic stuff.  I think we all indulge a 
bit much, and if not Thomas than Heather would have come down as well.

And sure, we all have a dog in this race, so we're all likely to get a 
little excitable now and then in response to this unusual disruption 
from Apple and its implications for our work.

But I wouldn't call Thomas a hater, and I don't think this list is the 
best place for such character attacks.

--
  Richard Gaskin
  Fourth World
  Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
  revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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RE: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Really?  It takes a rev stack and converts all content into OBJECTIVE C source. 
 Inserts it into the apple blessed ipad IDE, and then compiles an app in the 
apple blessed IDE?  How would apple know or care where the app spent its early 
years?  I don't think that is how revmobile works.  Not exactly.  Am I wrong?  
Does a revmoblile user have to have a mac running the apple blessed IDE?

-Original Message-
From: Chipp Walters 
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 2:01 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

What do you think RevMobile is? It does exactly THAT. It's just that Jobs
doesn't allow for THAT.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Randall Lee Reetz
wrote:

> Years ago I asked why no xtalk environment had built an xtalk to C source
> translator.  If stacks could be run through an extractor that did this and
> output objective C project document set, then it would be trivial for the
> user to end up with an apple complient app.
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Re: US Fed Trade Commission Investigation

[Richard Gaskin]

Randall Lee Reetz, who has once accused everyone on this list of 
"drinking the Rev cool-aid", wrote:


> Thomas, I have looked at your web life.  You seem to make a life
> of hating things.

Dude, please.

I've known Thomas for many, many years, and have been as impressed with 
his growth as a developer as I have with his character as a man.


On most days, his contributions are only of the most positive sort, 
focusing on helping people find good solutions to the problems they 
face.  He also donates a lot of code and tools to the community, and for 
all that we really like him.


Sure, he's fed up with the off-topic stuff.  I think we all indulge a 
bit much, and if not Thomas than Heather would have come down as well.


And sure, we all have a dog in this race, so we're all likely to get a 
little excitable now and then in response to this unusual disruption 
from Apple and its implications for our work.


But I wouldn't call Thomas a hater, and I don't think this list is the 
best place for such character attacks.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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RE: US Fed Trade Commission Investigation

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Thomas, I have looked at your web life.  You seem to make a life of hating 
things.  I don't think anyone here is hating steve jobs.  What is happening is 
a realization that bad decisions can be made by anyone.  What we want is the 
same openness from steve your libertarian stance demands everywhere else.  Do 
you own a lot of apple stock?

-Original Message-
From: Thomas McGrath III 
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 2:01 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: US Fed Trade Commission Investigation

I'm am really getting so sick of listening to this crap. Please go join some 
APPLE hating, Steve Jobs hating list. WILL YOU PLEASE.

It's getting to be too much, staying out of this freaking rhetoric when the 
comments go down this direction. What with the Hitler references and EVIL 
comments and BLAH BLAH BLAH 

I use a CROSS-PLATFORM tool call RunRev and I think this has gone far beyond 
what I am willing to put up with. We have Macintosh developers and Windows 
developers and Linux developers and soon we are going to have Google developers 
and Maemo developers. We here on this list need to set an example of true 
cross-platform respect towards each others platform of choice. 

PLEASE STOP USING OUR USE REVOLUTION LIST TO ATTACK AND DEFAME AND AIR YOUR 
PERSONAL VENDETTAS.

I don't care it you hate Apple. I don't care if you like ___ better. I 
don't care if you don't like Steve Jobs. I don't care if you think it's wrong. 
I don't care what your damn opinions are.

JUST STOP

Tom McGrath

On May 6, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:

> I am no yoga guy, never tried it, but Steve really needs a week at a yoga 
> retreat.  My parents were at an anti-war protest in San Francisco back in the 
> George W. days.  An elderly lady was carrying a sign that read, "Will someone 
> please give Bush a B___ Job!"
> 
> Randall Reetz
> 
> On May 6, 2010, at 12:48 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:
> 
>> What about HTML 5 and web content as a runRev stack publication option?  
>> What does HTML 5 say about mobile devise specific input like orientation, 
>> acceleration, position, multi-touch?
>> 
>> Randall
>> 
>> On May 6, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> http://nexus404.com/Blog/2010/05/03/apple-could-be-targeted-by-antitrust-suit-us-federal-trade-commission-investing-apple-regarding-the-programming-language-controversy/
>>> 
>>> On May 6, 2010, at 12:19 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>>> 
 What Andre has been trying to tell you, is it is IMPOSSIBLE to run scripts 
 or interpreted code on the iPhoneOS. This has been the case from the very 
 start and is widely known and not much debated. The original reason given 
 for this was to prevent malware, but I suspect it also is seen as a way to 
 get around having to pay for an app at the AppStore.
 
 I would suggest you consider reading up on the goings on of this case 
 before you try it at the Supreme Court.
 
 Chipp Walters
 CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc
 
 On May 6, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Randall Reetz  wrote:
 
> So, build an ipad and iphone stack runner (using Apple's blessed IDE) and 
> be done with it.  Then the question is how to distribute runrev generated 
> stacks for the iphad?
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RE: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Lee Reetz]

-Original Message-
From: Thomas McGrath III 
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 2:02 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

I'm am really getting so sick of listening to this crap. Please go join some 
APPLE hating, Steve Jobs hating list. WILL YOU PLEASE.

It's getting to be too much, staying out of this freaking rhetoric when the 
comments go down this direction. What with the Hitler references and EVIL 
comments and BLAH BLAH BLAH 

I use a CROSS-PLATFORM tool call RunRev and I think this has gone far beyond 
what I am willing to put up with. We have Macintosh developers and Windows 
developers and Linux developers and soon we are going to have Google developers 
and Maemo developers. We here on this list need to set an example of true 
cross-platform respect towards each others platform of choice. 

PLEASE STOP USING OUR USE REVOLUTION LIST TO ATTACK AND DEFAME AND AIR YOUR 
PERSONAL VENDETTAS.

I don't care it you hate Apple. I don't care if you like ___ better. I 
don't care if you don't like Steve Jobs. I don't care if you think it's wrong. 
I don't care what your damn opinions are.

JUST STOP

Tom McGrath
On May 6, 2010, at 5:01 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> What do you think RevMobile is? It does exactly THAT. It's just that Jobs
> doesn't allow for THAT.
> 
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Randall Lee Reetz
> wrote:
> 
>> Years ago I asked why no xtalk environment had built an xtalk to C source
>> translator.  If stacks could be run through an extractor that did this and
>> output objective C project document set, then it would be trivial for the
>> user to end up with an apple complient app.
> ___
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Chipp Walters]

Thomas,

I had a recent chat with another list member, and he informs me you have
many clients who use Apple products, specifically iPhone, and perhaps you
may be more sensitive to Apple's point of view because of it. I can
certainly understand your desire to not create a sense of fear in all of
this.

Hey, I'm OK with Apple products. I absolutely LOVE my iPhone-- single most
amazing device I've owned since my first 128K Mac. I release all my apps on
both Windows and Mac. I'm just OK with my iPad-- still I use it all the
time.

But, what I'm most concerned about is the very future of our beloved RunRev.
As you may know, I haven't posted on this or the Improve list for quite some
time, but am doing so because this current issue of Apple's revisionist
licensing has the potential to really affect us all in a HUGE way.

After all, this new license is in the iPhone 4.0 SDK, not 1.0 or 2.0 or 3.0.
This decision, however wrong in my eyes, should have been made a very long
time ago. Many existing tools vendors and their customers and THEIR
customers are affected-- to the tune of hundreds of thousands of users and
millions of dollars. If successful, it sets an industry precedence which can
effectively treat all cross-platform dev tools (RunRev included) like
outlaws-- in all industries, on all OS'es.

I'm blogging about this at http://www.chipp.com. I'm commenting about it in
others blogs, too. This is very serious stuff. I'm not trying to spread FUD
but to try and help put pressure on Apple to rethink their very destructive
positioning on all of this.

I really am sorry if you are offended, my intention was not to do so. I
still will defend what I see as a clear injustice by Steve Jobs to the rest
of the cross-platform community in general, and to Rev in particular.
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Thomas McGrath III]

Paul,

I also enjoy Chipps' comments on and off this list and am glad to have made his 
acquaintance on this list. My reaction was not meant for him specifically but 
about the level to which the comments were taking.

Tom

On May 6, 2010, at 5:43 PM, Paul Looney wrote:

> Tom,
> I don't always agree with Chipp, but I've found, over the years, that when he 
> writes he always has something worthwhile to say - and he usually says it 
> well.
> You don't have to listen to him - or anyone else.
> I will continue to look forward to his comments.
> Thanks Chipp.
> Paul Looney
> 
> On May 6, 2010, at 2:15 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
> 
>> Tom, see below...
>> 
>> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Thomas McGrath III  wrote:
>> 
>> 
>>> It's getting to be too much, staying out of this freaking rhetoric when the
>>> comments go down this direction. What with the Hitler references and EVIL
>>> comments and BLAH BLAH BLAH
>>> 
>> 
>> Tom, the Hitler references are part of an ongoing comment regarding the
>> Godwin point made by someone else. If you don't know what the Godwin point
>> is then look here.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law
>> 
>> It's a joke, get it? haha.
>> 
>> 
>>> I use a CROSS-PLATFORM tool call RunRev and I think this has gone far
>>> beyond what I am willing to put up with. We have Macintosh developers and
>>> Windows developers and Linux developers and soon we are going to have Google
>>> developers and Maemo developers. We here on this list need to set an example
>>> of true cross-platform respect towards each others platform of choice.
>>> 
>> 
>> I have no issues with Macintosh running RunRev. But if they decided to wall
>> it off like they do with the iPhone or iPad, I would voice my opinion here
>> as well about it.
>> 
>> 
>>> PLEASE STOP USING OUR USE REVOLUTION LIST TO ATTACK AND DEFAME AND AIR YOUR
>>> PERSONAL VENDETTAS.
>>> 
>> 
>> You seem to be the one the typing in all caps. The fact is, the 4
>> SDK license may not be a permanent one, and the more heat placed on Steve
>> Jobs and Apple over it, the more there is a chance for Apple to change their
>> mind. It's happened before where they've changed their mind based on outside
>> pressure-- it can happen again.
>> 
>> 
>>> I don't care it you hate Apple. I don't care if you like ___ better. I
>>> don't care if you don't like Steve Jobs. I don't care if you think it's
>>> wrong. I don't care what your damn opinions are.
>>> 
>>> JUST STOP
>>> 
>> 
>> Tom, it's a user list where we discuss issues relative to RunRev. I've paid
>> significant dollars and invested time for RevMobile in order to program for
>> iPad, only to have Steve Jobs retroactively change the license agreement
>> against cross platform tools for iPhone/iPad. I am sorry you're having such
>> a tough time with this. Why don't you try not reading comments posted by me
>> from now on?
>> 
>> Maybe that will help.
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>> preferences:
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[René Micout]

Godwin's law

Le 6 mai 2010 à 23:15, Chipp Walters a écrit :

> Tom, the Hitler references are part of an ongoing comment regarding the
> Godwin point made by someone else. If you don't know what the Godwin point
> is then look here.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Thank you Chipp,
After 20 years I learned existence of the Godwin's law...
As I said yesterday, I think, in another post, I learn something every day...
And it is time for today, it is 23:52 in France ;-)
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Paul Looney]

Tom,
I don't always agree with Chipp, but I've found, over the years, that  
when he writes he always has something worthwhile to say - and he  
usually says it well.

You don't have to listen to him - or anyone else.
I will continue to look forward to his comments.
Thanks Chipp.
Paul Looney

On May 6, 2010, at 2:15 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:


Tom, see below...

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Thomas McGrath III  
 wrote:



It's getting to be too much, staying out of this freaking rhetoric  
when the
comments go down this direction. What with the Hitler references  
and EVIL

comments and BLAH BLAH BLAH



Tom, the Hitler references are part of an ongoing comment regarding  
the
Godwin point made by someone else. If you don't know what the  
Godwin point

is then look here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

It's a joke, get it? haha.



I use a CROSS-PLATFORM tool call RunRev and I think this has gone far
beyond what I am willing to put up with. We have Macintosh  
developers and
Windows developers and Linux developers and soon we are going to  
have Google
developers and Maemo developers. We here on this list need to set  
an example
of true cross-platform respect towards each others platform of  
choice.




I have no issues with Macintosh running RunRev. But if they decided  
to wall
it off like they do with the iPhone or iPad, I would voice my  
opinion here

as well about it.


PLEASE STOP USING OUR USE REVOLUTION LIST TO ATTACK AND DEFAME AND  
AIR YOUR

PERSONAL VENDETTAS.



You seem to be the one the typing in all caps. The fact is, the 4
SDK license may not be a permanent one, and the more heat placed on  
Steve
Jobs and Apple over it, the more there is a chance for Apple to  
change their
mind. It's happened before where they've changed their mind based  
on outside

pressure-- it can happen again.


I don't care it you hate Apple. I don't care if you like ___  
better. I
don't care if you don't like Steve Jobs. I don't care if you think  
it's

wrong. I don't care what your damn opinions are.

JUST STOP



Tom, it's a user list where we discuss issues relative to RunRev.  
I've paid
significant dollars and invested time for RevMobile in order to  
program for
iPad, only to have Steve Jobs retroactively change the license  
agreement
against cross platform tools for iPhone/iPad. I am sorry you're  
having such
a tough time with this. Why don't you try not reading comments  
posted by me

from now on?

Maybe that will help.
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Chipp Walters]

Tom, see below...

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:00 PM, Thomas McGrath III  wrote:


> It's getting to be too much, staying out of this freaking rhetoric when the
> comments go down this direction. What with the Hitler references and EVIL
> comments and BLAH BLAH BLAH
>

Tom, the Hitler references are part of an ongoing comment regarding the
Godwin point made by someone else. If you don't know what the Godwin point
is then look here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

It's a joke, get it? haha.


> I use a CROSS-PLATFORM tool call RunRev and I think this has gone far
> beyond what I am willing to put up with. We have Macintosh developers and
> Windows developers and Linux developers and soon we are going to have Google
> developers and Maemo developers. We here on this list need to set an example
> of true cross-platform respect towards each others platform of choice.
>

I have no issues with Macintosh running RunRev. But if they decided to wall
it off like they do with the iPhone or iPad, I would voice my opinion here
as well about it.


> PLEASE STOP USING OUR USE REVOLUTION LIST TO ATTACK AND DEFAME AND AIR YOUR
> PERSONAL VENDETTAS.
>

You seem to be the one the typing in all caps. The fact is, the 4
SDK license may not be a permanent one, and the more heat placed on Steve
Jobs and Apple over it, the more there is a chance for Apple to change their
mind. It's happened before where they've changed their mind based on outside
pressure-- it can happen again.


> I don't care it you hate Apple. I don't care if you like ___ better. I
> don't care if you don't like Steve Jobs. I don't care if you think it's
> wrong. I don't care what your damn opinions are.
>
> JUST STOP
>

Tom, it's a user list where we discuss issues relative to RunRev. I've paid
significant dollars and invested time for RevMobile in order to program for
iPad, only to have Steve Jobs retroactively change the license agreement
against cross platform tools for iPhone/iPad. I am sorry you're having such
a tough time with this. Why don't you try not reading comments posted by me
from now on?

Maybe that will help.
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Thomas McGrath III]

Chipp,

I love ya, but I just don't give a damn..

When RunRev writes back to me and tells me they have a problem with this and 
what their decision on how they are going to handle this is then I WILL CARE. 

But until then this is all hype.

Tom

On May 6, 2010, at 5:03 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Tom, having a bad day?
> 
> Sorry, but Steve Jobs personal vendetta against Adobe IS creating problems
> for RunRev. Have you not been paying attention here?

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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Thomas McGrath III]

I'm am really getting so sick of listening to this crap. Please go join some 
APPLE hating, Steve Jobs hating list. WILL YOU PLEASE.

It's getting to be too much, staying out of this freaking rhetoric when the 
comments go down this direction. What with the Hitler references and EVIL 
comments and BLAH BLAH BLAH 

I use a CROSS-PLATFORM tool call RunRev and I think this has gone far beyond 
what I am willing to put up with. We have Macintosh developers and Windows 
developers and Linux developers and soon we are going to have Google developers 
and Maemo developers. We here on this list need to set an example of true 
cross-platform respect towards each others platform of choice. 

PLEASE STOP USING OUR USE REVOLUTION LIST TO ATTACK AND DEFAME AND AIR YOUR 
PERSONAL VENDETTAS.

I don't care it you hate Apple. I don't care if you like ___ better. I 
don't care if you don't like Steve Jobs. I don't care if you think it's wrong. 
I don't care what your damn opinions are.

JUST STOP

Tom McGrath

On May 6, 2010, at 5:03 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> Tom, having a bad day?
> 
> Sorry, but Steve Jobs personal vendetta against Adobe IS creating problems
> for RunRev. Have you not been paying attention here?
> 
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Thomas McGrath III  wrote:
> 
>> I'm am really getting so sick of listening to this crap. Please go join
>> some APPLE hating, Steve Jobs hating list. WILL YOU PLEASE.
>> 
>> It's getting to be too much, staying out of this freaking rhetoric when the
>> comments go down this direction. What with the Hitler references and EVIL
>> comments and BLAH BLAH BLAH
>> 
>> I use a CROSS-PLATFORM tool call RunRev and I think this has gone far
>> beyond what I am willing to put up with. We have Macintosh developers and
>> Windows developers and Linux developers and soon we are going to have Google
>> developers and Maemo developers. We here on this list need to set an example
>> of true cross-platform respect towards each others platform of choice.
>> 
>> PLEASE STOP USING OUR USE REVOLUTION LIST TO ATTACK AND DEFAME AND AIR YOUR
>> PERSONAL VENDETTAS.
>> 
>> I don't care it you hate Apple. I don't care if you like ___ better. I
>> don't care if you don't like Steve Jobs. I don't care if you think it's
>> wrong. I don't care what your damn opinions are.
>> 
>> JUST STOP
>> 
>> Tom McGrath
>> 
>> 
>> On May 6, 2010, at 4:27 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>> 
>>> Years ago I asked why no xtalk environment had built an xtalk to C source
>> translator.  If stacks could be run through an extractor that did this and
>> output objective C project document set, then it would be trivial for the
>> user to end up with an apple complient app.  Better yet, offer this as a
>> service.  Rev user would upload stacks to rev's site which would handle the
>> conversion.  Adobe cares about the format of its protocol.  Rev doesn't or
>> shouldn't.  The whole point should be supposing a pathway from rev to iphad
>> app.  The tool doesn't matter.  Emulate all you want on the rev user end.
>> But output shouldn't need to be under rev user control.  I know I don't
>> care how my stack becomes an app.
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Randall Reetz 
>>> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 11:52 AM
>>> To: How to use Revolution 
>>> Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?
>>> 
>>> How about distribution rights?  Are those unlocked?  If Rev or someone
>> wanted to distribute Apple's iphad IDE… could they?
>>> 
>>> Randall
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On May 6, 2010, at 11:43 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>>> 
 Randall Reetz wrote:
 
> If apple is apples policy is contingent upon the purchase of
> the blessed IDE than a court will shortly slap it down.  Count
> on it.  But the battle could rage on a bit if apple is giving
> the blessed IDE away.
 
 It's free as in beer, just not free as in freedom.
 
 In my understanding only portions are FOSS, but all of it needed for
>> development is available without cost to anything but your time.
 
 --
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
 ___
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 use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
 Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
 http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
 
>>> 
>>> ___
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>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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>>> 
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>>> Pl

Re: single bit contact closure input [macintosh]

[DunbarX]

Very nice indeed. It can become the foundation of a whole new hobby. The 
Rev part is simple and seamless. Works like a charm and tons of fun.

Craig Newman

In a message dated 5/6/10 3:48:17 PM, stephenrevoluti...@barncard.com 
writes:


> yes, very nice stuff. A "Revolution External" is mentioned.
> 
> A lot of trouble for one bit. Maybe I'll just hack a couple of wires to 
> the
> M key on an old keyboard.
> 
> 
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Chipp Walters]

Tom, having a bad day?

Sorry, but Steve Jobs personal vendetta against Adobe IS creating problems
for RunRev. Have you not been paying attention here?

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:01 PM, Thomas McGrath III  wrote:

> I'm am really getting so sick of listening to this crap. Please go join
> some APPLE hating, Steve Jobs hating list. WILL YOU PLEASE.
>
> It's getting to be too much, staying out of this freaking rhetoric when the
> comments go down this direction. What with the Hitler references and EVIL
> comments and BLAH BLAH BLAH
>
> I use a CROSS-PLATFORM tool call RunRev and I think this has gone far
> beyond what I am willing to put up with. We have Macintosh developers and
> Windows developers and Linux developers and soon we are going to have Google
> developers and Maemo developers. We here on this list need to set an example
> of true cross-platform respect towards each others platform of choice.
>
> PLEASE STOP USING OUR USE REVOLUTION LIST TO ATTACK AND DEFAME AND AIR YOUR
> PERSONAL VENDETTAS.
>
> I don't care it you hate Apple. I don't care if you like ___ better. I
> don't care if you don't like Steve Jobs. I don't care if you think it's
> wrong. I don't care what your damn opinions are.
>
> JUST STOP
>
> Tom McGrath
>
>
> On May 6, 2010, at 4:27 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>
> > Years ago I asked why no xtalk environment had built an xtalk to C source
> translator.  If stacks could be run through an extractor that did this and
> output objective C project document set, then it would be trivial for the
> user to end up with an apple complient app.  Better yet, offer this as a
> service.  Rev user would upload stacks to rev's site which would handle the
> conversion.  Adobe cares about the format of its protocol.  Rev doesn't or
> shouldn't.  The whole point should be supposing a pathway from rev to iphad
> app.  The tool doesn't matter.  Emulate all you want on the rev user end.
>  But output shouldn't need to be under rev user control.  I know I don't
> care how my stack becomes an app.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Randall Reetz 
> > Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 11:52 AM
> > To: How to use Revolution 
> > Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?
> >
> > How about distribution rights?  Are those unlocked?  If Rev or someone
> wanted to distribute Apple's iphad IDE… could they?
> >
> > Randall
> >
> >
> > On May 6, 2010, at 11:43 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> >
> >> Randall Reetz wrote:
> >>
> >>> If apple is apples policy is contingent upon the purchase of
> >>> the blessed IDE than a court will shortly slap it down.  Count
> >>> on it.  But the battle could rage on a bit if apple is giving
> >>> the blessed IDE away.
> >>
> >> It's free as in beer, just not free as in freedom.
> >>
> >> In my understanding only portions are FOSS, but all of it needed for
> development is available without cost to anything but your time.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Richard Gaskin
> >> Fourth World
> >> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> >> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> >> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> >> ___
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >
> > ___
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> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
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> >
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> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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Re: How To Discover The Properties of a Control

[DunbarX]

Not passing "preOpenStack" in your working stack will cripple automatic 
updating if you navigate, but otherwise not matter much. You can always update 
manually if you move to another card.

But it is always a good idea to pass these sorts of system messages as a 
matter of course, unless you have a specific reason not to.

Craig Newman


In a message dated 5/6/10 4:50:53 PM, p...@mollysrevenge.com writes:


> Thanks for the pointer on how to do this and for pointing me to your 
> Wizard stack. The Wizard looks like what I was trying to do and i'll 
> give it a try.  A little worried about the preOpenStack issue because 
> I'm doing that in my app as well but we'll see how it works out.
> 
> Thanks Craig.
> 
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Thomas McGrath III]

I'm am really getting so sick of listening to this crap. Please go join some 
APPLE hating, Steve Jobs hating list. WILL YOU PLEASE.

It's getting to be too much, staying out of this freaking rhetoric when the 
comments go down this direction. What with the Hitler references and EVIL 
comments and BLAH BLAH BLAH 

I use a CROSS-PLATFORM tool call RunRev and I think this has gone far beyond 
what I am willing to put up with. We have Macintosh developers and Windows 
developers and Linux developers and soon we are going to have Google developers 
and Maemo developers. We here on this list need to set an example of true 
cross-platform respect towards each others platform of choice. 

PLEASE STOP USING OUR USE REVOLUTION LIST TO ATTACK AND DEFAME AND AIR YOUR 
PERSONAL VENDETTAS.

I don't care it you hate Apple. I don't care if you like ___ better. I 
don't care if you don't like Steve Jobs. I don't care if you think it's wrong. 
I don't care what your damn opinions are.

JUST STOP

Tom McGrath
On May 6, 2010, at 5:01 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> What do you think RevMobile is? It does exactly THAT. It's just that Jobs
> doesn't allow for THAT.
> 
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Randall Lee Reetz
> wrote:
> 
>> Years ago I asked why no xtalk environment had built an xtalk to C source
>> translator.  If stacks could be run through an extractor that did this and
>> output objective C project document set, then it would be trivial for the
>> user to end up with an apple complient app.
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Re: US Fed Trade Commission Investigation

[Thomas McGrath III]

I'm am really getting so sick of listening to this crap. Please go join some 
APPLE hating, Steve Jobs hating list. WILL YOU PLEASE.

It's getting to be too much, staying out of this freaking rhetoric when the 
comments go down this direction. What with the Hitler references and EVIL 
comments and BLAH BLAH BLAH 

I use a CROSS-PLATFORM tool call RunRev and I think this has gone far beyond 
what I am willing to put up with. We have Macintosh developers and Windows 
developers and Linux developers and soon we are going to have Google developers 
and Maemo developers. We here on this list need to set an example of true 
cross-platform respect towards each others platform of choice. 

PLEASE STOP USING OUR USE REVOLUTION LIST TO ATTACK AND DEFAME AND AIR YOUR 
PERSONAL VENDETTAS.

I don't care it you hate Apple. I don't care if you like ___ better. I 
don't care if you don't like Steve Jobs. I don't care if you think it's wrong. 
I don't care what your damn opinions are.

JUST STOP

Tom McGrath

On May 6, 2010, at 3:52 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:

> I am no yoga guy, never tried it, but Steve really needs a week at a yoga 
> retreat.  My parents were at an anti-war protest in San Francisco back in the 
> George W. days.  An elderly lady was carrying a sign that read, "Will someone 
> please give Bush a B___ Job!"
> 
> Randall Reetz
> 
> On May 6, 2010, at 12:48 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:
> 
>> What about HTML 5 and web content as a runRev stack publication option?  
>> What does HTML 5 say about mobile devise specific input like orientation, 
>> acceleration, position, multi-touch?
>> 
>> Randall
>> 
>> On May 6, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> http://nexus404.com/Blog/2010/05/03/apple-could-be-targeted-by-antitrust-suit-us-federal-trade-commission-investing-apple-regarding-the-programming-language-controversy/
>>> 
>>> On May 6, 2010, at 12:19 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>>> 
 What Andre has been trying to tell you, is it is IMPOSSIBLE to run scripts 
 or interpreted code on the iPhoneOS. This has been the case from the very 
 start and is widely known and not much debated. The original reason given 
 for this was to prevent malware, but I suspect it also is seen as a way to 
 get around having to pay for an app at the AppStore.
 
 I would suggest you consider reading up on the goings on of this case 
 before you try it at the Supreme Court.
 
 Chipp Walters
 CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc
 
 On May 6, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Randall Reetz  wrote:
 
> So, build an ipad and iphone stack runner (using Apple's blessed IDE) and 
> be done with it.  Then the question is how to distribute runrev generated 
> stacks for the iphad?
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Chipp Walters]

What do you think RevMobile is? It does exactly THAT. It's just that Jobs
doesn't allow for THAT.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:27 PM, Randall Lee Reetz
wrote:

> Years ago I asked why no xtalk environment had built an xtalk to C source
> translator.  If stacks could be run through an extractor that did this and
> output objective C project document set, then it would be trivial for the
> user to end up with an apple complient app.
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Thomas McGrath III]

I'm am really getting so sick of listening to this crap. Please go join some 
APPLE hating, Steve Jobs hating list. WILL YOU PLEASE.

It's getting to be too much, staying out of this freaking rhetoric when the 
comments go down this direction. What with the Hitler references and EVIL 
comments and BLAH BLAH BLAH 

I use a CROSS-PLATFORM tool call RunRev and I think this has gone far beyond 
what I am willing to put up with. We have Macintosh developers and Windows 
developers and Linux developers and soon we are going to have Google developers 
and Maemo developers. We here on this list need to set an example of true 
cross-platform respect towards each others platform of choice. 

PLEASE STOP USING OUR USE REVOLUTION LIST TO ATTACK AND DEFAME AND AIR YOUR 
PERSONAL VENDETTAS.

I don't care it you hate Apple. I don't care if you like ___ better. I 
don't care if you don't like Steve Jobs. I don't care if you think it's wrong. 
I don't care what your damn opinions are.

JUST STOP

Tom McGrath


On May 6, 2010, at 4:27 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

> Years ago I asked why no xtalk environment had built an xtalk to C source 
> translator.  If stacks could be run through an extractor that did this and 
> output objective C project document set, then it would be trivial for the 
> user to end up with an apple complient app.  Better yet, offer this as a 
> service.  Rev user would upload stacks to rev's site which would handle the 
> conversion.  Adobe cares about the format of its protocol.  Rev doesn't or 
> shouldn't.  The whole point should be supposing a pathway from rev to iphad 
> app.  The tool doesn't matter.  Emulate all you want on the rev user end.  
> But output shouldn't need to be under rev user control.  I know I don't care 
> how my stack becomes an app.
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Randall Reetz 
> Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 11:52 AM
> To: How to use Revolution 
> Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?
> 
> How about distribution rights?  Are those unlocked?  If Rev or someone wanted 
> to distribute Apple's iphad IDE… could they?
> 
> Randall
> 
> 
> On May 6, 2010, at 11:43 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Randall Reetz wrote:
>> 
>>> If apple is apples policy is contingent upon the purchase of
>>> the blessed IDE than a court will shortly slap it down.  Count
>>> on it.  But the battle could rage on a bit if apple is giving
>>> the blessed IDE away.
>> 
>> It's free as in beer, just not free as in freedom.
>> 
>> In my understanding only portions are FOSS, but all of it needed for 
>> development is available without cost to anything but your time.
>> 
>> --
>> Richard Gaskin
>> Fourth World
>> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
>> ___
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>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
>> preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
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> preferences:
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> 
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Thomas McGrath III]

OK, SEE YA, BYE-BYE, HAVE FUN, 

I'm am really getting so sick of listening to this crap. Please go join some 
APPLE hating, Steve Jobs hating list. WILL YOU PLEASE.

It's getting to be too much, staying out of this freaking rhetoric when the 
comments go down this direction. What with the Hitler references and EVIL 
comments and BLAH BLAH BLAH 

I use a CROSS-PLATFORM tool call RunRev and I think this has gone far beyond 
what I am willing to put up with. We have Macintosh developers and Windows 
developers and Linux developers and soon we are going to have Google developers 
and Maemo developers. We here on this list need to set an example of true 
cross-platform respect towards each others platform of choice. 

PLEASE STOP USING OUR USE REVOLUTION LIST TO ATTACK AND DEFAME AND AIR YOUR 
PERSONAL VENDETTAS.

I don't care it you hate Apple. I don't care if you like ___ better. I 
don't care if you don't like Steve Jobs. I don't care if you think it's wrong. 
I don't care what your damn opinions are.

JUST STOP

Tom McGrath

On May 6, 2010, at 3:29 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Anyone wants to buy me a nexus one phone? They don't sell them in Brazil :-(
> 
> I am so going to jump out of apple camp soon...
> 
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Chipp Walters  wrote:
> 
>> Haven't we passed that yet? If not, I'm more than happy to get us there ;-)
>> http://mingramjr.com/hitler-shows-his-frustration-for-the-lost-iph
>> 
>> Also see:
>> 
>> http://shaferwaltersgroup.posterous.com/jobs-pay-attention-to-our-ads-or-we-lockout-y
>> 
>> Chipp Walters
>> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc
>> 
>> On May 6, 2010, at 2:14 PM, François Chaplais <
>> francois.chapl...@mines-paristech.fr> wrote:
>> 
>>> 
>>> Le 6 mai 2010 à 21:06, Randall Reetz a écrit :
>>> 
 This is an interesting Supreme Court subject.  I could write a tight
>> case that shows that code is content.  An executable program is first
>> amendment protected expressive content exactly the same as is expected and
>> enjoyed by a poet or a painter.
>>> 
>>> Ahh... good I see the possibility of a Godwin point
>>> 
 
 So, build an ipad and iphone stack runner (using Apple's blessed IDE)
>> and be done with it.  Then the question is how to distribute runrev
>> generated stacks for the iphad?
 
 After that, the question is:  Does apple restrict the distribution of
>> ebooks, movies, sounds or other content as a function of origin, protocol,
>> or content?
 
 If so, they will eventually face the courts on that issue for sure.
>> Anyone know what the civil liberties people are doing with regard to this
>> topic?  It is one thing to be a media broadcaster or a content source, but
>> to be that and the proprietor of the only equipment through with that same
>> content can be consumed, wow, that is so beyond illegal that it is only a
>> matter of time before Apple gets the big legal spanking it deserves.
 
 Randall Reetz
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-revolution mailing list
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>> subscription preferences:
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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Re: How To Discover The Properties of a Control

[Peter Haworth]

Thanks for the pointer on how to do this and for pointing me to your  
Wizard stack. The Wizard looks like what I was trying to do and i'll  
give it a try.  A little worried about the preOpenStack issue because  
I'm doing that in my app as well but we'll see how it works out.


Thanks Craig.

Pete Haworth

On May 6, 2010, at 10:00 AM, use-revolution-requ...@lists.runrev.com  
wrote:



Message: 27
Date: Thu, 6 May 2010 12:57:43 EDT
From: dunb...@aol.com
Subject: Re: How To Discover The Properties of a Control
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Message-ID: <24b58.6c89efc6.39144...@aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

Or you can download my "Wizard" from revOnLine. It does all that you  
asked

for, and allows you to change values on the fly.

Craig Newman


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Re: In vitro

[René Micout]

Merci Alejandro > muchas gracias !
René

Le 6 mai 2010 à 21:03, Alejandro Tejada a écrit :

> 
> Really nice drawing style!
> 
> Scaling vector graphics in Rev is not
> as smooth, but it's possible.
> 
> Look at this stack, that includes code
> to scale vector graphics:
> 
> http://andregarzia.on-rev.com/alejandro/stacks/graphics_transformations_01.zip
> http://webspace.webring.com/people/qc/capellan/graphics_transformations_01.zip
> http://www.capellan2000.000space.com/graphics_transformations_01.zip
> 
> Ideally, curves in polygonal vector graphics should be
> redraw from cubic or quadratic bezier formulas that
> you could find here:
> 
> http://webspace.webring.com/people/qc/capellan/CurvedDrawingPen_v01.zip
> http://andregarzia.on-rev.com/alejandro/stacks/CurvedDrawingPen_v01.zip
> http://www.capellan2000.000space.com/CurvedDrawingPen_v01.zip
> 
> Alejandro
> -- 
> View this message in context: 
> http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/In-vitro-tp2131289p2133198.html
> Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Richard Gaskin]

Randall Reetz wrote:

> Years ago I asked why no xtalk environment had built an xtalk to C
> source translator.  If stacks could be run through an extractor
> that did this and output objective C project document set, then
> it would be trivial for the user to end up with an apple complient
> app.

Unfortunately it would not.

It seems your iPhone's screen is too small, since you're missing about 
half the discussion going on here.


Just a short while ago today in a post you replied to I noted the 
provenance clause, in which Apple controls not only the suitability of 
the deliverable object code, but also the process by which its source is 
created:




Yes, I know it's hard to believe.  We've never seen anything like it in 
the history of the industry.  But it's there, and is central to this 
whole issue.


Much has been written about it.  You might find it worthwhile to take a 
break here and catch up on some of the blogs about it, starting with the 
links already posted to this and related threads here, like Gruber, 
Williams, Ars Technica, etc.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: US Fed Trade Commission Investigation

[Richard Gaskin]

Randall Reetz wrote:

> What about HTML 5 and web content as a runRev stack publication
> option?  What does HTML 5 say about mobile devise specific input
> like orientation, acceleration, position, multi-touch?

Yes, HTML5/JavaScript/WebKit is pretty much what PhoneGap is relying on, 
and they've gotten the official green light from Apple.


As of 1:28PM on 6 May that's the only option for multi-platform 
deployment that includes iPhone OS.


Whether or not it remains an option for iPhone OS deployment at 2:00PM 
cannot be known by any developer or investor banking on it.


For all other OSes, however, it is reasonably well known to be a good 
option for the foreseeable future.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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RE: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Years ago I asked why no xtalk environment had built an xtalk to C source 
translator.  If stacks could be run through an extractor that did this and 
output objective C project document set, then it would be trivial for the user 
to end up with an apple complient app.  Better yet, offer this as a service.  
Rev user would upload stacks to rev's site which would handle the conversion.  
Adobe cares about the format of its protocol.  Rev doesn't or shouldn't.  The 
whole point should be supposing a pathway from rev to iphad app.  The tool 
doesn't matter.  Emulate all you want on the rev user end.  But output 
shouldn't need to be under rev user control.  I know I don't care how my stack 
becomes an app.

-Original Message-
From: Randall Reetz 
Sent: Thursday, May 06, 2010 11:52 AM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

How about distribution rights?  Are those unlocked?  If Rev or someone wanted 
to distribute Apple's iphad IDE… could they?

Randall


On May 6, 2010, at 11:43 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Randall Reetz wrote:
> 
> > If apple is apples policy is contingent upon the purchase of
> > the blessed IDE than a court will shortly slap it down.  Count
> > on it.  But the battle could rage on a bit if apple is giving
> > the blessed IDE away.
> 
> It's free as in beer, just not free as in freedom.
> 
> In my understanding only portions are FOSS, but all of it needed for 
> development is available without cost to anything but your time.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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> preferences:
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Re: US Fed Trade Commission Investigation

[Randall Reetz]

I am no yoga guy, never tried it, but Steve really needs a week at a yoga 
retreat.  My parents were at an anti-war protest in San Francisco back in the 
George W. days.  An elderly lady was carrying a sign that read, "Will someone 
please give Bush a B___ Job!"

Randall Reetz

On May 6, 2010, at 12:48 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:

> What about HTML 5 and web content as a runRev stack publication option?  What 
> does HTML 5 say about mobile devise specific input like orientation, 
> acceleration, position, multi-touch?
> 
> Randall
> 
> On May 6, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:
> 
>> 
>> http://nexus404.com/Blog/2010/05/03/apple-could-be-targeted-by-antitrust-suit-us-federal-trade-commission-investing-apple-regarding-the-programming-language-controversy/
>> 
>> On May 6, 2010, at 12:19 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
>> 
>>> What Andre has been trying to tell you, is it is IMPOSSIBLE to run scripts 
>>> or interpreted code on the iPhoneOS. This has been the case from the very 
>>> start and is widely known and not much debated. The original reason given 
>>> for this was to prevent malware, but I suspect it also is seen as a way to 
>>> get around having to pay for an app at the AppStore.
>>> 
>>> I would suggest you consider reading up on the goings on of this case 
>>> before you try it at the Supreme Court.
>>> 
>>> Chipp Walters
>>> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc
>>> 
>>> On May 6, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Randall Reetz  wrote:
>>> 
 So, build an ipad and iphone stack runner (using Apple's blessed IDE) and 
 be done with it.  Then the question is how to distribute runrev generated 
 stacks for the iphad?
>>> ___
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>>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
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Re: US Fed Trade Commission Investigation

[Randall Reetz]

What about HTML 5 and web content as a runRev stack publication option?  What 
does HTML 5 say about mobile devise specific input like orientation, 
acceleration, position, multi-touch?

Randall

On May 6, 2010, at 12:37 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:

> 
> http://nexus404.com/Blog/2010/05/03/apple-could-be-targeted-by-antitrust-suit-us-federal-trade-commission-investing-apple-regarding-the-programming-language-controversy/
> 
> On May 6, 2010, at 12:19 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:
> 
>> What Andre has been trying to tell you, is it is IMPOSSIBLE to run scripts 
>> or interpreted code on the iPhoneOS. This has been the case from the very 
>> start and is widely known and not much debated. The original reason given 
>> for this was to prevent malware, but I suspect it also is seen as a way to 
>> get around having to pay for an app at the AppStore.
>> 
>> I would suggest you consider reading up on the goings on of this case before 
>> you try it at the Supreme Court.
>> 
>> Chipp Walters
>> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc
>> 
>> On May 6, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Randall Reetz  wrote:
>> 
>>> So, build an ipad and iphone stack runner (using Apple's blessed IDE) and 
>>> be done with it.  Then the question is how to distribute runrev generated 
>>> stacks for the iphad?
>> ___
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>> preferences:
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Re: single bit contact closure input [macintosh]

[stephen barncard]

yes, very nice stuff. A "Revolution External" is mentioned.

A lot of trouble for one bit. Maybe I'll just hack a couple of wires to the
M key on an old keyboard.

On 6 May 2010 12:17,  wrote:

> Not sure what "reasonably priced" is, but you will love the "service USB"
> gadget from:
>
> http://bkohg.com/service_e.html
>
> Craig Newman
>
>
> In a message dated 5/6/10 2:53:22 PM, stephenrevoluti...@barncard.com
> writes:
>
>
> > 2. A small and reasonably priced USB interface box that can work with
> > rev?
> >
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-- 
-
Stephen Barncard
Back home in SF
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US Fed Trade Commission Investigation

[Randall Reetz]

http://nexus404.com/Blog/2010/05/03/apple-could-be-targeted-by-antitrust-suit-us-federal-trade-commission-investing-apple-regarding-the-programming-language-controversy/

On May 6, 2010, at 12:19 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> What Andre has been trying to tell you, is it is IMPOSSIBLE to run scripts or 
> interpreted code on the iPhoneOS. This has been the case from the very start 
> and is widely known and not much debated. The original reason given for this 
> was to prevent malware, but I suspect it also is seen as a way to get around 
> having to pay for an app at the AppStore.
> 
> I would suggest you consider reading up on the goings on of this case before 
> you try it at the Supreme Court.
> 
> Chipp Walters
> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc
> 
> On May 6, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Randall Reetz  wrote:
> 
>> So, build an ipad and iphone stack runner (using Apple's blessed IDE) and be 
>> done with it.  Then the question is how to distribute runrev generated 
>> stacks for the iphad?
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Andre Garzia]

Anyone wants to buy me a nexus one phone? They don't sell them in Brazil :-(

I am so going to jump out of apple camp soon...

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:28 PM, Chipp Walters  wrote:

> Haven't we passed that yet? If not, I'm more than happy to get us there ;-)
> http://mingramjr.com/hitler-shows-his-frustration-for-the-lost-iph
>
> Also see:
>
> http://shaferwaltersgroup.posterous.com/jobs-pay-attention-to-our-ads-or-we-lockout-y
>
> Chipp Walters
> CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc
>
> On May 6, 2010, at 2:14 PM, François Chaplais <
> francois.chapl...@mines-paristech.fr> wrote:
>
> >
> > Le 6 mai 2010 à 21:06, Randall Reetz a écrit :
> >
> >> This is an interesting Supreme Court subject.  I could write a tight
> case that shows that code is content.  An executable program is first
> amendment protected expressive content exactly the same as is expected and
> enjoyed by a poet or a painter.
> >
> > Ahh... good I see the possibility of a Godwin point
> >
> >>
> >> So, build an ipad and iphone stack runner (using Apple's blessed IDE)
> and be done with it.  Then the question is how to distribute runrev
> generated stacks for the iphad?
> >>
> >> After that, the question is:  Does apple restrict the distribution of
> ebooks, movies, sounds or other content as a function of origin, protocol,
> or content?
> >>
> >> If so, they will eventually face the courts on that issue for sure.
>  Anyone know what the civil liberties people are doing with regard to this
> topic?  It is one thing to be a media broadcaster or a content source, but
> to be that and the proprietor of the only equipment through with that same
> content can be consumed, wow, that is so beyond illegal that it is only a
> matter of time before Apple gets the big legal spanking it deserves.
> >>
> >> Randall Reetz
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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-- 
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[François Chaplais]

Le 6 mai 2010 à 21:20, Richard Gaskin a écrit :

> 
> If you want to publish your source code as prose or poetry in an ebook 
> there's nothing stopping you.  Some reasonably good poems have been written 
> in xTalk.
> 

good thinking. Raymond Queneau did this before in his cent mille milliards de 
poèmes
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hundred_Thousand_Billion_Poems
I had a printing of it one day. It is like computer poetry, but without a 
computer. What I learned in the Wikipedia article (in the french version too) 
is that the publisher of the book managed to ban its implementation on the 
internet.

When I think of it, it is only poetic justice.




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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Chipp Walters]

Haven't we passed that yet? If not, I'm more than happy to get us there ;-)
http://mingramjr.com/hitler-shows-his-frustration-for-the-lost-iph

Also see: 
http://shaferwaltersgroup.posterous.com/jobs-pay-attention-to-our-ads-or-we-lockout-y

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On May 6, 2010, at 2:14 PM, François Chaplais 
 wrote:

> 
> Le 6 mai 2010 à 21:06, Randall Reetz a écrit :
> 
>> This is an interesting Supreme Court subject.  I could write a tight case 
>> that shows that code is content.  An executable program is first amendment 
>> protected expressive content exactly the same as is expected and enjoyed by 
>> a poet or a painter.
> 
> Ahh... good I see the possibility of a Godwin point
> 
>> 
>> So, build an ipad and iphone stack runner (using Apple's blessed IDE) and be 
>> done with it.  Then the question is how to distribute runrev generated 
>> stacks for the iphad?
>> 
>> After that, the question is:  Does apple restrict the distribution of 
>> ebooks, movies, sounds or other content as a function of origin, protocol, 
>> or content?
>> 
>> If so, they will eventually face the courts on that issue for sure.  Anyone 
>> know what the civil liberties people are doing with regard to this topic?  
>> It is one thing to be a media broadcaster or a content source, but to be 
>> that and the proprietor of the only equipment through with that same content 
>> can be consumed, wow, that is so beyond illegal that it is only a matter of 
>> time before Apple gets the big legal spanking it deserves.
>> 
>> Randall Reetz
>> 
> 
> 
> 
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Andre Garzia]

by the way, if you're in the mood for supreme courts, you can please sue
them here as well:

http://www.stf.jus.br/portal/principal/principal.asp

This is the Brazilian Supreme Federal Court, you can sue apple in here too
if you want. And here we have laws against prejudices and that protects
minorities, if you can convince them that apple is prejudiced against
interpreters and is oppressing xTalk minorities, your case will be a
wonderful success!!!

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:20 PM, Richard Gaskin
wrote:

> Randall Reetz wrote:
>
> > This is an interesting Supreme Court subject.  I could write a
> > tight case that shows that code is content.  An executable program
> > is first amendment protected expressive content exactly the same
> > as is expected and enjoyed by a poet or a painter.
> >
> > So, build an ipad and iphone stack runner (using Apple's blessed IDE)
> > and be done with it.  Then the question is how to distribute runrev
> > generated stacks for the iphad?
> >
> > After that, the question is:  Does apple restrict the distribution of
> > ebooks, movies, sounds or other content as a function of origin,
> > protocol, or content?
>
> If you want to publish your source code as prose or poetry in an ebook
> there's nothing stopping you.  Some reasonably good poems have been written
> in xTalk.
>
> If you want to deploy that text as scripts along with an engine to
> interpret that text at runtime into executable statements, that's another
> thing.
>
> This seems to be the inverse of the font copyright precedent, where the
> distinction between code and data were clearly established:  font designs as
> bitmaps are not afforded copyright protection because they are considered
> primarily "utilitarian" and "obvious", but when vector fonts like PostScript
> and TrueType came along they were afforded copyright protection as
> executable code, even as the glyphs they rendered were not protectable
> (which explains the thousands of knock-offs, fully allowable if the designs
> contain none of the original code).
>
> With the distinction between data and executable code well established, I
> would not imagine it would be too hard for Apple's army of lawyers to draw
> on that to support a case where they've explicitly prohibited certain forms
> of executable code.
>
> But that said, I'm no lawyer.
>
> If you get this to the Supreme Court let us know how it works out for you.
>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>  revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Sockets

[Hershel Fisch]

On 5/6/10 12:28 PM, "Bob Sneidar"  wrote:

> Shouldn't you put it AFTER fld "f1" if you are tracing it?
That's the reason every read I put into another fld., and also to see what
read returns what. As I saw that the second write repeated the same as the
first.
> 
> Bob
> 
> 
> On May 5, 2010, at 3:19 PM, Hershel Fisch wrote:
> 
>> Hi, I checked it out,
>> I did realize that there are 2 ports being used 1 form client to server and
>> 1 from server to client. Though I don't know how to make use of it in my
>> case.
>> Also I think there is a typo in tnhe example script (sSocket instead of
>> pSocket) or something doesn't work properly.
>> 
>> I did get some info from it.
>> 
>> NOW, This what I wrote;
>> 
>> on mouseUp
>>   put "192.168.1.199:4559" into pSocket
>>   open socket to pSocket
>>   read from socket pSocket until return
>>   put it into fld "f1"  -to trace results
>> 
>>   write "USER admin" & linefeed & "PASS xx" to socket pSocket
>>   read from socket pSocket until return
>>   put it into fld "f2" of this stack
>> 
>>   write  "/usr/local/sbin/hfaxd help" & linefeed to socket pSocket
>>   read from socket pSocket until return
>>   put it into fld "f3" of this stack   looks like it reenters the
>> same command twice
>>   close socket pSocket
>> Now if I repeat the second write twice then this is what I get...
>> 
>> 500 /USR/LOCAL/SBIN/HFAXD: Command not recognized.
>> 
>> end mouseUp
>> 
>> Any help would be highly appreciated.
>> Thanks, Hershel
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 4/29/10 3:24 PM, "Hershel Fisch"  wrote:
>> 
>>> Thanks, I'll check it out.
>>> Hershel
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 4/28/10 9:04 AM, "Trevor DeVore"  wrote:
>>> 
 On Apr 27, 2010, at 4:23 PM, Hershel Fisch wrote:
 
> Hi, could any help me out with a full socket session ? Please!
 
 Perhaps this lesson will help:
 
 
>> http://lessons.runrev.com/spaces/lessons/buckets/784/lessons/12924-How-to-com
>> >>
>> m
 unicate-with-other-applications-using-sockets
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
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>> 
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Reetz]

The EU is even more attentive to anti-trust issues than are US courts.  Believe 
me, these cases are under development in the US and the EU courts.  What Steve 
has done simply accelerates the process and priority of said.  There are ways 
around the app store and these ways will receive more attention shortly.

Is RunRev joining any class action law suits addressing this grievance?  Anyone 
know of any such suits and how to join them?

Randall


On May 6, 2010, at 12:15 PM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> Good idea Randall... build it and go tell the Supreme Court. I will wait
> here and wonder why tiny Adobe and RunRev team didn't do the same thing.
> 
> Now being realistic. It is not that simple Randall...
> 
> You CAN'T BUILD AND DISTRIBUTE A PLAYER, now it is the fifth time I tell
> that here and the second time I tell it to you. YOU CAN'T and this is not
> because the U.S. Constitution, actually, there are other goverments in the
> world with different constitutions and there's something called the E.U.
> with a whole bunch of cool laws around. It doesn't matter right now because
> YOU CAN'T DISTRIBUTE SOFTWARE ON THE IPHONE OUTSIDE OF THE APP STORE. The
> only way to distribute your software is thru the app store. And yes, if you
> are a member of the iPhone developer program, you can hook up to 100
> iDevices to your development machine and install software on them but this
> is not reasonable way to distribute software. And yes you can be a member of
> university program or enterprise program and be allowed to install pretty
> much anything on your university/enterprise iphones/ipads but this still is
> no solution for those that want to distribute software to end users, the
> only way to do that is thru the app store and they will not allow a player
> thru.
> 
> Sue them if you want, you will not be the only one.
> 
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:
> 
>> This is an interesting Supreme Court subject.  I could write a tight case
>> that shows that code is content.  An executable program is first amendment
>> protected expressive content exactly the same as is expected and enjoyed by
>> a poet or a painter.
>> 
>> So, build an ipad and iphone stack runner (using Apple's blessed IDE) and
>> be done with it.  Then the question is how to distribute runrev generated
>> stacks for the iphad?
>> 
>> After that, the question is:  Does apple restrict the distribution of
>> ebooks, movies, sounds or other content as a function of origin, protocol,
>> or content?
>> 
>> If so, they will eventually face the courts on that issue for sure.  Anyone
>> know what the civil liberties people are doing with regard to this topic?
>> It is one thing to be a media broadcaster or a content source, but to be
>> that and the proprietor of the only equipment through with that same content
>> can be consumed, wow, that is so beyond illegal that it is only a matter of
>> time before Apple gets the big legal spanking it deserves.
>> 
>> Randall Reetz
>> 
>> 
>> On May 6, 2010, at 11:49 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> 
>>> Randall Reetz wrote:
>>> 
 One way to do this is the old runrev virtual machine idea (build
 and distribute a rev stack player app for iphads).  The world's
 legal systems protect (US first amendment) free speech and content
 authorship such that source content can not be messed with or
 restricted to or tied to exclusive protocol.  No one can tell
 William Shakespeare what type of pen he can write with or printing
 presses he can publish with.
>>> 
>>> If you write code as prose there is no restriction at play.
>>> 
>>> The restriction applies only to executable instructions, which include
>> all scripting languages.
>>> 
>>> At this time Python, Perl, Squeak, even languages essential for research
>> like R and MatLab, are not allowed in iPhone OS.
>>> 
>>> According to Apple, researchers must use an Android-powered device to do
>> their work. ;)
>>> 
>>> How does this apply to macros and formulas in Apple's own Numbers app? At
>> the moment they may well constitute "executable code", and are certainly
>> interpreted.  I'll wager the license changes again as soon as someone points
>> this out to them.
>>> 
>>> What time is it now, and what will the iPhone developer license look like
>> by 2:12PM?
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Richard Gaskin
>>> Fourth World
>>> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>>> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>>> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
>>> ___
>>> use-revolution mailing list
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>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
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>> 
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Richard Gaskin]

Randall Reetz wrote:

> This is an interesting Supreme Court subject.  I could write a
> tight case that shows that code is content.  An executable program
> is first amendment protected expressive content exactly the same
> as is expected and enjoyed by a poet or a painter.
>
> So, build an ipad and iphone stack runner (using Apple's blessed IDE)
> and be done with it.  Then the question is how to distribute runrev
> generated stacks for the iphad?
>
> After that, the question is:  Does apple restrict the distribution of
> ebooks, movies, sounds or other content as a function of origin,
> protocol, or content?

If you want to publish your source code as prose or poetry in an ebook 
there's nothing stopping you.  Some reasonably good poems have been 
written in xTalk.


If you want to deploy that text as scripts along with an engine to 
interpret that text at runtime into executable statements, that's 
another thing.


This seems to be the inverse of the font copyright precedent, where the 
distinction between code and data were clearly established:  font 
designs as bitmaps are not afforded copyright protection because they 
are considered primarily "utilitarian" and "obvious", but when vector 
fonts like PostScript and TrueType came along they were afforded 
copyright protection as executable code, even as the glyphs they 
rendered were not protectable (which explains the thousands of 
knock-offs, fully allowable if the designs contain none of the original 
code).


With the distinction between data and executable code well established, 
I would not imagine it would be too hard for Apple's army of lawyers to 
draw on that to support a case where they've explicitly prohibited 
certain forms of executable code.


But that said, I'm no lawyer.

If you get this to the Supreme Court let us know how it works out for you.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Reetz]

On May 6, 2010, at 12:06 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:

> After that, the question is:  Does apple restrict the distribution of ebooks, 
> movies, sounds or other content as a function of origin, protocol, or content?

How exactly is apple attempting to define a distinction between content that 
isn't and is code?  What is the difference, as they are trying to argue, 
between a page of text, a frame of video, a passage of recorded music, and 
executable code?  Any such distinction would have to be arbitrary at best.

Steve has fully and completely jumped headlong into the public fire pit this 
time.  Wow, he must really hate Adobe!  Willing to kill his own company (again) 
in defense of his own ego and frustrations with others.  There is something to 
be said for the adage that states that entrepreneurs make terrible CEO's.  10 
years ago, apple was a startup again.  Steve came back to play entrepreneur.  
Not it is a global company again.  Will they let him ruin it again?  Then hire 
him back as cowboy again?

Randall

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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Chipp Walters]

What Andre has been trying to tell you, is it is IMPOSSIBLE to run scripts or 
interpreted code on the iPhoneOS. This has been the case from the very start 
and is widely known and not much debated. The original reason given for this 
was to prevent malware, but I suspect it also is seen as a way to get around 
having to pay for an app at the AppStore.

I would suggest you consider reading up on the goings on of this case before 
you try it at the Supreme Court.

Chipp Walters
CEO, Shafer Walters Group, Inc

On May 6, 2010, at 2:06 PM, Randall Reetz  wrote:

> So, build an ipad and iphone stack runner (using Apple's blessed IDE) and be 
> done with it.  Then the question is how to distribute runrev generated stacks 
> for the iphad?
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Re: single bit contact closure input [macintosh]

[DunbarX]

Not sure what "reasonably priced" is, but you will love the "service USB" 
gadget from:

http://bkohg.com/service_e.html

Craig Newman


In a message dated 5/6/10 2:53:22 PM, stephenrevoluti...@barncard.com 
writes:


> 2. A small and reasonably priced USB interface box that can work with 
> rev?
> 
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Andre Garzia]

Good idea Randall... build it and go tell the Supreme Court. I will wait
here and wonder why tiny Adobe and RunRev team didn't do the same thing.

Now being realistic. It is not that simple Randall...

You CAN'T BUILD AND DISTRIBUTE A PLAYER, now it is the fifth time I tell
that here and the second time I tell it to you. YOU CAN'T and this is not
because the U.S. Constitution, actually, there are other goverments in the
world with different constitutions and there's something called the E.U.
with a whole bunch of cool laws around. It doesn't matter right now because
YOU CAN'T DISTRIBUTE SOFTWARE ON THE IPHONE OUTSIDE OF THE APP STORE. The
only way to distribute your software is thru the app store. And yes, if you
are a member of the iPhone developer program, you can hook up to 100
iDevices to your development machine and install software on them but this
is not reasonable way to distribute software. And yes you can be a member of
university program or enterprise program and be allowed to install pretty
much anything on your university/enterprise iphones/ipads but this still is
no solution for those that want to distribute software to end users, the
only way to do that is thru the app store and they will not allow a player
thru.

Sue them if you want, you will not be the only one.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 4:06 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:

> This is an interesting Supreme Court subject.  I could write a tight case
> that shows that code is content.  An executable program is first amendment
> protected expressive content exactly the same as is expected and enjoyed by
> a poet or a painter.
>
> So, build an ipad and iphone stack runner (using Apple's blessed IDE) and
> be done with it.  Then the question is how to distribute runrev generated
> stacks for the iphad?
>
> After that, the question is:  Does apple restrict the distribution of
> ebooks, movies, sounds or other content as a function of origin, protocol,
> or content?
>
> If so, they will eventually face the courts on that issue for sure.  Anyone
> know what the civil liberties people are doing with regard to this topic?
>  It is one thing to be a media broadcaster or a content source, but to be
> that and the proprietor of the only equipment through with that same content
> can be consumed, wow, that is so beyond illegal that it is only a matter of
> time before Apple gets the big legal spanking it deserves.
>
> Randall Reetz
>
>
> On May 6, 2010, at 11:49 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>
> > Randall Reetz wrote:
> >
> > > One way to do this is the old runrev virtual machine idea (build
> > > and distribute a rev stack player app for iphads).  The world's
> > > legal systems protect (US first amendment) free speech and content
> > > authorship such that source content can not be messed with or
> > > restricted to or tied to exclusive protocol.  No one can tell
> > > William Shakespeare what type of pen he can write with or printing
> > > presses he can publish with.
> >
> > If you write code as prose there is no restriction at play.
> >
> > The restriction applies only to executable instructions, which include
> all scripting languages.
> >
> > At this time Python, Perl, Squeak, even languages essential for research
> like R and MatLab, are not allowed in iPhone OS.
> >
> > According to Apple, researchers must use an Android-powered device to do
> their work. ;)
> >
> > How does this apply to macros and formulas in Apple's own Numbers app? At
> the moment they may well constitute "executable code", and are certainly
> interpreted.  I'll wager the license changes again as soon as someone points
> this out to them.
> >
> > What time is it now, and what will the iPhone developer license look like
> by 2:12PM?
> >
> > --
> > Richard Gaskin
> > Fourth World
> > Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> > Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> > revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> > ___
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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> >
>
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[François Chaplais]

Le 6 mai 2010 à 21:06, Randall Reetz a écrit :

> This is an interesting Supreme Court subject.  I could write a tight case 
> that shows that code is content.  An executable program is first amendment 
> protected expressive content exactly the same as is expected and enjoyed by a 
> poet or a painter.

Ahh... good I see the possibility of a Godwin point

> 
> So, build an ipad and iphone stack runner (using Apple's blessed IDE) and be 
> done with it.  Then the question is how to distribute runrev generated stacks 
> for the iphad?
> 
> After that, the question is:  Does apple restrict the distribution of ebooks, 
> movies, sounds or other content as a function of origin, protocol, or content?
> 
> If so, they will eventually face the courts on that issue for sure.  Anyone 
> know what the civil liberties people are doing with regard to this topic?  It 
> is one thing to be a media broadcaster or a content source, but to be that 
> and the proprietor of the only equipment through with that same content can 
> be consumed, wow, that is so beyond illegal that it is only a matter of time 
> before Apple gets the big legal spanking it deserves.
> 
> Randall Reetz
> 



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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Richard Gaskin]

Andre Garzia wrote:


except you can't distribute your apps or test them on your device if you are
not a member of the iPhone Developer program.

What you can get for FREE is SDK access and simulator access.


Ah, right.  Thanks for the reminder.

IIRC the cost is pretty low, but I have no opinion on whether the terms 
are compliant with the US Constitution of the UN Declaration of Human 
Rights.  ;)


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv



On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Richard Gaskin
wrote:


Randall Reetz wrote:

> If apple is apples policy is contingent upon the purchase of
> the blessed IDE than a court will shortly slap it down.  Count
> on it.  But the battle could rage on a bit if apple is giving
> the blessed IDE away.

It's free as in beer, just not free as in freedom.

In my understanding only portions are FOSS, but all of it needed for
development is available without cost to anything but your time.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World


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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Reetz]

This is an interesting Supreme Court subject.  I could write a tight case that 
shows that code is content.  An executable program is first amendment protected 
expressive content exactly the same as is expected and enjoyed by a poet or a 
painter.

So, build an ipad and iphone stack runner (using Apple's blessed IDE) and be 
done with it.  Then the question is how to distribute runrev generated stacks 
for the iphad?

After that, the question is:  Does apple restrict the distribution of ebooks, 
movies, sounds or other content as a function of origin, protocol, or content?

If so, they will eventually face the courts on that issue for sure.  Anyone 
know what the civil liberties people are doing with regard to this topic?  It 
is one thing to be a media broadcaster or a content source, but to be that and 
the proprietor of the only equipment through with that same content can be 
consumed, wow, that is so beyond illegal that it is only a matter of time 
before Apple gets the big legal spanking it deserves.

Randall Reetz


On May 6, 2010, at 11:49 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Randall Reetz wrote:
> 
> > One way to do this is the old runrev virtual machine idea (build
> > and distribute a rev stack player app for iphads).  The world's
> > legal systems protect (US first amendment) free speech and content
> > authorship such that source content can not be messed with or
> > restricted to or tied to exclusive protocol.  No one can tell
> > William Shakespeare what type of pen he can write with or printing
> > presses he can publish with.
> 
> If you write code as prose there is no restriction at play.
> 
> The restriction applies only to executable instructions, which include all 
> scripting languages.
> 
> At this time Python, Perl, Squeak, even languages essential for research like 
> R and MatLab, are not allowed in iPhone OS.
> 
> According to Apple, researchers must use an Android-powered device to do 
> their work. ;)
> 
> How does this apply to macros and formulas in Apple's own Numbers app? At the 
> moment they may well constitute "executable code", and are certainly 
> interpreted.  I'll wager the license changes again as soon as someone points 
> this out to them.
> 
> What time is it now, and what will the iPhone developer license look like by 
> 2:12PM?
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> ___
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> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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> 

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Re: In vitro

[Alejandro Tejada]

Really nice drawing style!

Scaling vector graphics in Rev is not
as smooth, but it's possible.

Look at this stack, that includes code
to scale vector graphics:

http://andregarzia.on-rev.com/alejandro/stacks/graphics_transformations_01.zip
http://webspace.webring.com/people/qc/capellan/graphics_transformations_01.zip
http://www.capellan2000.000space.com/graphics_transformations_01.zip

Ideally, curves in polygonal vector graphics should be
redraw from cubic or quadratic bezier formulas that
you could find here:

http://webspace.webring.com/people/qc/capellan/CurvedDrawingPen_v01.zip
http://andregarzia.on-rev.com/alejandro/stacks/CurvedDrawingPen_v01.zip
http://www.capellan2000.000space.com/CurvedDrawingPen_v01.zip

Alejandro
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/In-vitro-tp2131289p2133198.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Andre Garzia]

No.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:52 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:

> How about distribution rights?  Are those unlocked?  If Rev or someone
> wanted to distribute Apple's iphad IDE… could they?
>
> Randall
>
>

-- 
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Andre Garzia]

Randall,

There can't be a revPlayer option. For the love of the almighty forum
search, check out some information. There can't be any kind of player on
iPhone OS. It is restricted. There can't be any kind of code interpreter,
code runner, code compiler, code transmogrifier on iPhone OS and this has
been the source of most of the problems for everyone.

This is the main problem and why RunRev had to change their engine in the
first place. This has been told and retold in this list and in basically
every other iPhone development list since forever. The restriction on
interpretation of code.

When you join the iPhone Developer program you accept an agreement that
enforces this restriction. If this agreement is not in tune with the U.S.
Constitution or whatever is not the point. The point is that you AGREE to
abide by some rules, if you break them and they kick you out of the store,
then you know why.

I remember at least three occasions where I wrote to this list talking on
the very subject of engine changes and why interpreters, JIT and all the
cool runtime stuff is not allowed.

What you sau about "This relegates stacks to source-document status" makes
no sense!!! There's a difference between raw data and code. A shakespeare
play will not fail to execute, it will not follow logic patterns, it will
not do math, it will not post to twitter, it will not execute anything. It
is not code.

Yes, you can load textual representation of source code in the iPhone but
you CANT EXECUTE IT not because some technical flaw but because theres a
FREAKING AGREEMENT telling you (and you accepted) that you can't!

This is the problem and there's no solution for executing foreign code in
the iPhone without violating these rules. The only option is to compile the
whole revolution stack down to bytecodes, creating a library that wraps the
engine, assembling then together in a nice XCode SDK project so that you
just hit build on XCode and be happy. Now, this can be done, but it takes
time and resources.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:50 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:

> If I were rev, I would choose the revPlayer App option.  This relegates
> stacks to source-document status, (not unlike ebooks, pdf's, .txt, html, IM,
> .snd, .mov, and other source data protocols).  Apple would wind up in some
> deep deep legal poopoo if it was seen to restrict document access and
> display on their devices.
>
> Steve's frustration with Adobe has overrun his ability to think rationally.
>  What surprises me is that nobody at apple had the balls to tell him so and
> stop the madness before it left campus.
>
> Randall Reetz
>
> On May 6, 2010, at 11:42 AM, Randall Reetz wrote:
>
> > One way to do this is the old runrev virtual machine idea (build and
> distribute a rev stack player app for iphads).  The world's legal systems
> protect (US first amendment) free speech and content authorship such that
> source content can not be messed with or restricted to or tied to exclusive
> protocol.  No one can tell William Shakespeare what type of pen he can write
> with or printing presses he can publish with.
> >
> > Apple has walked a fine line here for years.  In the world of sound
> recordings, there has always been enough purchasing venues (record stores)
> to provide the requisite freedom of expression and publication.  But when
> Apple ties content source to player they are violating the same laws that
> worked against Microsoft's browser integration scheme.  What apple used to
> get away with when it was the little guy no longer applies now that they
> dominate the media player landscape.
> >
> > Randall Reetz
> >
>


-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Richard Gaskin]

Andre Garzia wrote:


Now back to RevMobile. The users who bought their entrances to the
Alpha/Beta program took a bet. They are willing to pay a price because they
believe that in the future RevMobile will be great! Most of the current
RevMobile testers are people who are going to the 2010 conference I believe
since RevMobile was included in the pioneer offer.

So RevMobile is not a finished product.


Far from it.  That's an important point Andre, and very I'm glad you 
made it.


Like Rev for the desktop, Rev on the server, and Rev in the browser, 
RevMobile is a multi-platform solution.   And from the videos RunRev has 
shown it looks like it's well on it's way to being a great one.


Even with Apple's change to the license, that only affects a subset of 
developers on one platform.  In-house deployment is not affected at this 
time, there may still be a resolution for AppStore deployment as well, 
and all other target OSes remain unchanged.


As far as I can tell, everything else RevMobile set out to do is still 
moving ahead full steam (and possibly more than hasn't been formally 
announced yet).


And with any luck, Apple will come around and their customers can enjoy 
the party too.


With the mobile market even more diverse than the desktop market, 
multi-platform deployment is more valuable to developers than ever before.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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single bit contact closure input [macintosh]

[stephen barncard]

Hi gang,

I have a situation where I need a  single bit input - on or off ( actually
on only momentarily ) "contact closure" into rev.
I'm looking for an out of the box solution... for a single stack that will
be used frequently.

Let me back up and explain. I'm archiving hundreds of DAT tapes to hard
drive. I want to preserve the indexes on the DATs, by detecting them and
then placing markers on the timeline of the aiff or wav file, that can be
used for separating the selections.

Detecting the indexes already laboriously placed on the recordings over the
years was essential to this archiving process, and can be done with a
hardware unit called the HHB Bit Box.
You run your SPDIF dat stream through this box, and it can detect these
index markers, and closes a relay.

On the mac, I need to detect the contact closure.  This is the gap in the
middle I need to bridge.  This will  trigger an event. The event is used to
send an "M" command by applescript to the application "Sound Studio",
thereby triggering a 'create marker' event on the timeline.

ideas:
I thought I was being real clever when I thought I could use the *
recordLoudness* property to detect an audio threshold, then trigger an
event.
BUT one has to be writing to an audio file while it's running. messy for
something that's running all the time.  x

has anyone tried

1. some hardware point accessible by rev somehow like

audio burst on the modem port?

CTS connecting to DTS on a serial adapter?  (I have the KEYSPAN USB -->
Serial adapter )

2. A small and reasonably priced USB interface box that can work with rev?


3. A cool easy to program STAMP like device that could send packets over
TCP/IP


this used to be so easy on an Apple ][.

Worst CASE
I have hardware stuff I can throw together and connect with serial - I've
done this for years, but it takes hours and soldering and boards and power
supplies, and TIME.
And at my age, squinting. Eye pain. Looking for an easier way. Hardware is,
well, hard. The software part will take minutes in Rev.

thanks for any and all ideas...

sqb

-- 
-
Stephen Barncard
Back home in SF
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Reetz]

How about distribution rights?  Are those unlocked?  If Rev or someone wanted 
to distribute Apple's iphad IDE… could they?

Randall


On May 6, 2010, at 11:43 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Randall Reetz wrote:
> 
> > If apple is apples policy is contingent upon the purchase of
> > the blessed IDE than a court will shortly slap it down.  Count
> > on it.  But the battle could rage on a bit if apple is giving
> > the blessed IDE away.
> 
> It's free as in beer, just not free as in freedom.
> 
> In my understanding only portions are FOSS, but all of it needed for 
> development is available without cost to anything but your time.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> ___
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Andre Garzia]

Richard,

except you can't distribute your apps or test them on your device if you are
not a member of the iPhone Developer program.

What you can get for FREE is SDK access and simulator access.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Richard Gaskin
wrote:

> Randall Reetz wrote:
>
> > If apple is apples policy is contingent upon the purchase of
> > the blessed IDE than a court will shortly slap it down.  Count
> > on it.  But the battle could rage on a bit if apple is giving
> > the blessed IDE away.
>
> It's free as in beer, just not free as in freedom.
>
> In my understanding only portions are FOSS, but all of it needed for
> development is available without cost to anything but your time.
>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Fourth World
>  Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
>  Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
>  revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> ___
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Reetz]

If I were rev, I would choose the revPlayer App option.  This relegates stacks 
to source-document status, (not unlike ebooks, pdf's, .txt, html, IM, .snd, 
.mov, and other source data protocols).  Apple would wind up in some deep deep 
legal poopoo if it was seen to restrict document access and display on their 
devices.

Steve's frustration with Adobe has overrun his ability to think rationally.  
What surprises me is that nobody at apple had the balls to tell him so and stop 
the madness before it left campus.  

Randall Reetz

On May 6, 2010, at 11:42 AM, Randall Reetz wrote:

> One way to do this is the old runrev virtual machine idea (build and 
> distribute a rev stack player app for iphads).  The world's legal systems 
> protect (US first amendment) free speech and content authorship such that 
> source content can not be messed with or restricted to or tied to exclusive 
> protocol.  No one can tell William Shakespeare what type of pen he can write 
> with or printing presses he can publish with.  
> 
> Apple has walked a fine line here for years.  In the world of sound 
> recordings, there has always been enough purchasing venues (record stores) to 
> provide the requisite freedom of expression and publication.  But when Apple 
> ties content source to player they are violating the same laws that worked 
> against Microsoft's browser integration scheme.  What apple used to get away 
> with when it was the little guy no longer applies now that they dominate the 
> media player landscape.
> 
> Randall Reetz
> 
> 
> On May 6, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Randall Reetz wrote:
> 
>> So, is Apple demanding that the use of its blessed environment is contingent 
>> on purchase (of said)?  If not, there must be some way to build the rev 
>> stack to iphad app work flow such that rev developers are both within 
>> Apple's requirements and are protected from the complexity happening behind 
>> the scenes.
>> 
>> Randall
>> 
>> 
>> On May 6, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
>> 
>>> Randall Reetz wrote:
>>> 
 Is there a resource online or a white paper that describes in basic
 language how runrev for mobile (specifically for apple products)
 works?  Does it use apple's blessed dev environment at any step in
 the process?  In what form are the final builds?  Does it require a
 player app to be installed on each devise?  In short, how does runrev
 for mobile differ architecturally from the fully blessed apple
 environment and app format?
>>> 
>>> The last build RunRev shared with its early adopters worked in a way that 
>>> was compliant with the license terms in force at the time they started that 
>>> investment, but which has since become redefined by Apple as verboten:
>>> 
>>> You wrote in RevTalk, which the engine then compiled down to a form of 
>>> object code that would run well on the iPhone with no player and no 
>>> interpreted code.
>>> 
>>> But under the rules in effect as of 11:19AM this morning (which may change 
>>> again by this afternoon), one of the unprecedented elements of the license 
>>> is that Apple limits not only the state of the deliverable object code, but 
>>> also the provenance of the source code:
>>> 
>>> 3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner
>>> prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs.
>>> Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++,
>>> or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and
>>> only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and
>>> directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications
>>> that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation
>>> or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).
>>> 
>>> For more on this provenance aspect see Hank Williams' post:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> The "must be originally written in" clause is the killer here.  Even 
>>> translating RevTalk to generate C/C++/Objective-C code which was fully 
>>> compliant with all technical aspects and in all ways indistinguishable from 
>>> human-written code would be punishable under criminal law.
>>> 
>>> Whether using psuedocode during design, as is a common practice, also 
>>> violates this clause has yet to be tested.
>>> 
>>> 
 What are the current plans and how have they changed runrev's
 previous plans for the revmobile product's base architecture
 and release protocols?
>>> 
>>> Currently unknown.
>>> 
>>> Kevin has noted here that he is in negotiations with Apple to determine the 
>>> best course of action in light of their sweeping and unexpected change, and 
>>> will report back here as soon as the outcome is known.
>>> 
>>> As currently written, Apple's current iPhone license agreement seems to 
>>> leave only four options available to developers:
>>> 
>>> 1. Developing using Apple APIs in only C/C++/Objective-C; because
>>> of the unusual provenance clause this option 

Re: speaking of gif animations

[Chipp Walters]

Last time I checked, no

On Thursday, May 6, 2010, Richard Gaskin  wrote:
> Does toggling the alwaysBuffer of the image have any effect on this rendering?
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Richard Gaskin]

Randall Reetz wrote:

> One way to do this is the old runrev virtual machine idea (build
> and distribute a rev stack player app for iphads).  The world's
> legal systems protect (US first amendment) free speech and content
> authorship such that source content can not be messed with or
> restricted to or tied to exclusive protocol.  No one can tell
> William Shakespeare what type of pen he can write with or printing
> presses he can publish with.

If you write code as prose there is no restriction at play.

The restriction applies only to executable instructions, which include 
all scripting languages.


At this time Python, Perl, Squeak, even languages essential for research 
like R and MatLab, are not allowed in iPhone OS.


According to Apple, researchers must use an Android-powered device to do 
their work. ;)


How does this apply to macros and formulas in Apple's own Numbers app? 
At the moment they may well constitute "executable code", and are 
certainly interpreted.  I'll wager the license changes again as soon as 
someone points this out to them.


What time is it now, and what will the iPhone developer license look 
like by 2:12PM?


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Andre Garzia]

Randall,

Stop.

Stop.

Take a breath...

Inhale

Exhale

Calm down...

Okay, now let me begin...

Facts: Let us not get politickal with all the democracy stuff. No one is
withholding information. RevMobile is in flux, it is not finished. What is
open is an option to buy it while in Open Beta. If I recall correctly what
is being sold is entrance to Alpha/Beta program which includes the final
version when shipped. So remember RevMobile is not finished, it is in flux,
specially related to how it works and build stuff.

Second Fact:  Apple gives the SDK for free but that doesn't mean you can
sell or distribute for free your software. To do so, you need to enter the
iPhone Developer Program ( http://developer.apple.com/iphone ) which costs
at least USD 99. Only members of iDP are allowed to submit software for
approval and to use AdHoc install procedures on their test devices. What
changed is that now apple added a clause to the agreement saying that your
submission to the app store needs to be originally written in
ObjC/CocoaTouch. Some weeks ago, you could be a member of the iDP and submit
applications built with other tools or cross-compiled from other tools. Now
you can't.

Now back to RevMobile. The users who bought their entrances to the
Alpha/Beta program took a bet. They are willing to pay a price because they
believe that in the future RevMobile will be great! Most of the current
RevMobile testers are people who are going to the 2010 conference I believe
since RevMobile was included in the pioneer offer.

So RevMobile is not a finished product. So let us keep the legalese and
political stuff out and keep hoping for the best. RevMobile as a product is
not for sale yet.


-- 
http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Richard Gaskin]

Randall Reetz wrote:

> If apple is apples policy is contingent upon the purchase of
> the blessed IDE than a court will shortly slap it down.  Count
> on it.  But the battle could rage on a bit if apple is giving
> the blessed IDE away.

It's free as in beer, just not free as in freedom.

In my understanding only portions are FOSS, but all of it needed for 
development is available without cost to anything but your time.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Reetz]

One way to do this is the old runrev virtual machine idea (build and distribute 
a rev stack player app for iphads).  The world's legal systems protect (US 
first amendment) free speech and content authorship such that source content 
can not be messed with or restricted to or tied to exclusive protocol.  No one 
can tell William Shakespeare what type of pen he can write with or printing 
presses he can publish with.  

Apple has walked a fine line here for years.  In the world of sound recordings, 
there has always been enough purchasing venues (record stores) to provide the 
requisite freedom of expression and publication.  But when Apple ties content 
source to player they are violating the same laws that worked against 
Microsoft's browser integration scheme.  What apple used to get away with when 
it was the little guy no longer applies now that they dominate the media player 
landscape.

Randall Reetz


On May 6, 2010, at 11:28 AM, Randall Reetz wrote:

> So, is Apple demanding that the use of its blessed environment is contingent 
> on purchase (of said)?  If not, there must be some way to build the rev stack 
> to iphad app work flow such that rev developers are both within Apple's 
> requirements and are protected from the complexity happening behind the 
> scenes.
> 
> Randall
> 
> 
> On May 6, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:
> 
>> Randall Reetz wrote:
>> 
>>> Is there a resource online or a white paper that describes in basic
>>> language how runrev for mobile (specifically for apple products)
>>> works?  Does it use apple's blessed dev environment at any step in
>>> the process?  In what form are the final builds?  Does it require a
>>> player app to be installed on each devise?  In short, how does runrev
>>> for mobile differ architecturally from the fully blessed apple
>>> environment and app format?
>> 
>> The last build RunRev shared with its early adopters worked in a way that 
>> was compliant with the license terms in force at the time they started that 
>> investment, but which has since become redefined by Apple as verboten:
>> 
>> You wrote in RevTalk, which the engine then compiled down to a form of 
>> object code that would run well on the iPhone with no player and no 
>> interpreted code.
>> 
>> But under the rules in effect as of 11:19AM this morning (which may change 
>> again by this afternoon), one of the unprecedented elements of the license 
>> is that Apple limits not only the state of the deliverable object code, but 
>> also the provenance of the source code:
>> 
>> 3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner
>> prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs.
>> Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++,
>> or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and
>> only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and
>> directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications
>> that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation
>> or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).
>> 
>> For more on this provenance aspect see Hank Williams' post:
>> 
>> 
>> The "must be originally written in" clause is the killer here.  Even 
>> translating RevTalk to generate C/C++/Objective-C code which was fully 
>> compliant with all technical aspects and in all ways indistinguishable from 
>> human-written code would be punishable under criminal law.
>> 
>> Whether using psuedocode during design, as is a common practice, also 
>> violates this clause has yet to be tested.
>> 
>> 
>>> What are the current plans and how have they changed runrev's
>>> previous plans for the revmobile product's base architecture
>>> and release protocols?
>> 
>> Currently unknown.
>> 
>> Kevin has noted here that he is in negotiations with Apple to determine the 
>> best course of action in light of their sweeping and unexpected change, and 
>> will report back here as soon as the outcome is known.
>> 
>> As currently written, Apple's current iPhone license agreement seems to 
>> leave only four options available to developers:
>> 
>> 1. Developing using Apple APIs in only C/C++/Objective-C; because
>>  of the unusual provenance clause this option does not appear
>>  to be available to RunRev at this time.
>> 
>> 2. Develop using JavaScript and WebKit; possible for RunRev, but
>>  while some of us do a bit of that in very limited ways it would
>>  no doubt be very costly to generate JS from the whole of RevTalk
>>  (though Toolbook kinda did that in a useful way).
>> 
>> 3. Develop for the rest of the world and wait for Apple to change.
>> 
>> 4. Develop for the rest of the world, and for iPhone OS deploy only
>>  for "in-house" use under the special provisioning rules that
>>  allow it, bypassing the AppStore.
>> 
>> I've seen nothing in the license or discussion of it which suggest there is 
>> a fifth option; at least any fifth 

Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Reetz]

If apple is apples policy is contingent upon the purchase of the blessed IDE 
than a court will shortly slap it down.  Count on it.  But the battle could 
rage on a bit if apple is giving the blessed IDE away.

Randall

On May 6, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Randall Reetz wrote:
> 
> > Is there a resource online or a white paper that describes in basic
> > language how runrev for mobile (specifically for apple products)
> > works?  Does it use apple's blessed dev environment at any step in
> > the process?  In what form are the final builds?  Does it require a
> > player app to be installed on each devise?  In short, how does runrev
> > for mobile differ architecturally from the fully blessed apple
> > environment and app format?
> 
> The last build RunRev shared with its early adopters worked in a way that was 
> compliant with the license terms in force at the time they started that 
> investment, but which has since become redefined by Apple as verboten:
> 
> You wrote in RevTalk, which the engine then compiled down to a form of object 
> code that would run well on the iPhone with no player and no interpreted code.
> 
> But under the rules in effect as of 11:19AM this morning (which may change 
> again by this afternoon), one of the unprecedented elements of the license is 
> that Apple limits not only the state of the deliverable object code, but also 
> the provenance of the source code:
> 
>  3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner
>  prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs.
>  Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++,
>  or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and
>  only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and
>  directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications
>  that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation
>  or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).
> 
> For more on this provenance aspect see Hank Williams' post:
> 
> 
> The "must be originally written in" clause is the killer here.  Even 
> translating RevTalk to generate C/C++/Objective-C code which was fully 
> compliant with all technical aspects and in all ways indistinguishable from 
> human-written code would be punishable under criminal law.
> 
> Whether using psuedocode during design, as is a common practice, also 
> violates this clause has yet to be tested.
> 
> 
> > What are the current plans and how have they changed runrev's
> > previous plans for the revmobile product's base architecture
> > and release protocols?
> 
> Currently unknown.
> 
> Kevin has noted here that he is in negotiations with Apple to determine the 
> best course of action in light of their sweeping and unexpected change, and 
> will report back here as soon as the outcome is known.
> 
> As currently written, Apple's current iPhone license agreement seems to leave 
> only four options available to developers:
> 
> 1. Developing using Apple APIs in only C/C++/Objective-C; because
>   of the unusual provenance clause this option does not appear
>   to be available to RunRev at this time.
> 
> 2. Develop using JavaScript and WebKit; possible for RunRev, but
>   while some of us do a bit of that in very limited ways it would
>   no doubt be very costly to generate JS from the whole of RevTalk
>   (though Toolbook kinda did that in a useful way).
> 
> 3. Develop for the rest of the world and wait for Apple to change.
> 
> 4. Develop for the rest of the world, and for iPhone OS deploy only
>   for "in-house" use under the special provisioning rules that
>   allow it, bypassing the AppStore.
> 
> I've seen nothing in the license or discussion of it which suggest there is a 
> fifth option; at least any fifth option that doesn't leave developers even 
> more exposed to risk than they already are.
> 
> I'm confident Kevin will choose from the limited options Apple has provided 
> its developers the one that's in the best interest of this customers.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> 
> 
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Reetz]

So, is Apple demanding that the use of its blessed environment is contingent on 
purchase (of said)?  If not, there must be some way to build the rev stack to 
iphad app work flow such that rev developers are both within Apple's 
requirements and are protected from the complexity happening behind the scenes.

Randall


On May 6, 2010, at 11:19 AM, Richard Gaskin wrote:

> Randall Reetz wrote:
> 
> > Is there a resource online or a white paper that describes in basic
> > language how runrev for mobile (specifically for apple products)
> > works?  Does it use apple's blessed dev environment at any step in
> > the process?  In what form are the final builds?  Does it require a
> > player app to be installed on each devise?  In short, how does runrev
> > for mobile differ architecturally from the fully blessed apple
> > environment and app format?
> 
> The last build RunRev shared with its early adopters worked in a way that was 
> compliant with the license terms in force at the time they started that 
> investment, but which has since become redefined by Apple as verboten:
> 
> You wrote in RevTalk, which the engine then compiled down to a form of object 
> code that would run well on the iPhone with no player and no interpreted code.
> 
> But under the rules in effect as of 11:19AM this morning (which may change 
> again by this afternoon), one of the unprecedented elements of the license is 
> that Apple limits not only the state of the deliverable object code, but also 
> the provenance of the source code:
> 
>  3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner
>  prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs.
>  Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++,
>  or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and
>  only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and
>  directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications
>  that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation
>  or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).
> 
> For more on this provenance aspect see Hank Williams' post:
> 
> 
> The "must be originally written in" clause is the killer here.  Even 
> translating RevTalk to generate C/C++/Objective-C code which was fully 
> compliant with all technical aspects and in all ways indistinguishable from 
> human-written code would be punishable under criminal law.
> 
> Whether using psuedocode during design, as is a common practice, also 
> violates this clause has yet to be tested.
> 
> 
> > What are the current plans and how have they changed runrev's
> > previous plans for the revmobile product's base architecture
> > and release protocols?
> 
> Currently unknown.
> 
> Kevin has noted here that he is in negotiations with Apple to determine the 
> best course of action in light of their sweeping and unexpected change, and 
> will report back here as soon as the outcome is known.
> 
> As currently written, Apple's current iPhone license agreement seems to leave 
> only four options available to developers:
> 
> 1. Developing using Apple APIs in only C/C++/Objective-C; because
>   of the unusual provenance clause this option does not appear
>   to be available to RunRev at this time.
> 
> 2. Develop using JavaScript and WebKit; possible for RunRev, but
>   while some of us do a bit of that in very limited ways it would
>   no doubt be very costly to generate JS from the whole of RevTalk
>   (though Toolbook kinda did that in a useful way).
> 
> 3. Develop for the rest of the world and wait for Apple to change.
> 
> 4. Develop for the rest of the world, and for iPhone OS deploy only
>   for "in-house" use under the special provisioning rules that
>   allow it, bypassing the AppStore.
> 
> I've seen nothing in the license or discussion of it which suggest there is a 
> fifth option; at least any fifth option that doesn't leave developers even 
> more exposed to risk than they already are.
> 
> I'm confident Kevin will choose from the limited options Apple has provided 
> its developers the one that's in the best interest of this customers.
> 
> --
> Richard Gaskin
> Fourth World
> Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
> Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
> revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
> 
> 
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Reetz]

I can't think of a modern democracy who's laws would support the proposition 
that a potential customer's only access to crucial information effecting a 
purchasing decision about a product… is to be procured only after they purchase 
said product.  To state this requirement in writing only makes the proposition 
more illegal (and reprehensible).

Who is advising RunRev on legal issues?

Randall Reetz


On May 6, 2010, at 11:12 AM, Andre Garzia wrote:

> An NDA was signed prior to all that
> Apple-we-do-evil-but-it-is-beautiful-evil stuff.
> 
> It is not that people want to keep potential customers in the dark, it is
> that so far the community does not know what is happening except for the
> fact that RunRev team is in contact with Apple.
> 
> All we can say is that currently the way that Revolution Desktop works,
> meaning, how the standalones are generated and how the engine works will not
> work with Apple Agreement, so a change is needed on the engine. This is
> information that is not related to the current fear from the 1.1.3 clause.
> This is related to Apple preventing code compilation and execution at
> runtime, this has be so since forever and RunRev was aware of it and
> RevMobile will do things different than use a JIT compiler like it does now
> on the Desktop.
> 
> So all in all, we can't tell you because we don't know.
> 
> If we knew we would not be able to tell but I believe that documentation
> would be available.
> 
> Now, if someone in the community knows and I don't know, then, it is my
> fault and and I am talking sh*t.
> 
> On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:
> 
>> Wow.
>> 
>> So the only way for a potential customer to find out if the runrev mobile
>> solution is likely to pass muster with Apple's new policy (to make an
>> informed purchasing decision), is to purchase the program (and find out
>> later)?  I question both the legality of that policy and the obvious and
>> expected negative public relations and marketing outfall.
>> 
>> And you guys are complaining about Steve Jobs' autocratic and anti-consumer
>> openness?
>> 
>> 
>> Randall Reetz
>> 
>> 
>> On May 6, 2010, at 10:44 AM, stephen barncard wrote:
>> 
>>> That's trade secret stuff at REV, and current users are on an NDA so they
>>> can't talk about it here. You could find out by buying the product.
>>> 
>>> On 6 May 2010 10:38, Randall Reetz  wrote:
>>> 
 Is there a resource online or a white paper that describes in basic
 language how runrev for mobile (specifically for apple products) works?
 Does it use apple's blessed dev environment at any step in the process?
>> In
 what form are the final builds?  Does it require a player app to be
 installed on each devise?  In short, how does runrev for mobile differ
 architecturally from the fully blessed apple environment and app format?
 
 What are the current plans and how have they changed runrev's previous
 plans for the revmobile product's base architecture and release
>> protocols?
 
 Randall Reetz___
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 subscription preferences:
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>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> -
>>> Stephen Barncard
>>> Back home in SF
>>> ___
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>> 
>> 
>> ___
>> use-revolution mailing list
>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
>> subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> http://www.andregarzia.com All We Do Is Code.
> ___
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> preferences:
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Richard Gaskin]

Randall Reetz wrote:

> Is there a resource online or a white paper that describes in basic
> language how runrev for mobile (specifically for apple products)
> works?  Does it use apple's blessed dev environment at any step in
> the process?  In what form are the final builds?  Does it require a
> player app to be installed on each devise?  In short, how does runrev
> for mobile differ architecturally from the fully blessed apple
> environment and app format?

The last build RunRev shared with its early adopters worked in a way 
that was compliant with the license terms in force at the time they 
started that investment, but which has since become redefined by Apple 
as verboten:


You wrote in RevTalk, which the engine then compiled down to a form of 
object code that would run well on the iPhone with no player and no 
interpreted code.


But under the rules in effect as of 11:19AM this morning (which may 
change again by this afternoon), one of the unprecedented elements of 
the license is that Apple limits not only the state of the deliverable 
object code, but also the provenance of the source code:


  3.3.1 — Applications may only use Documented APIs in the manner
  prescribed by Apple and must not use or call any private APIs.
  Applications must be originally written in Objective-C, C, C++,
  or JavaScript as executed by the iPhone OS WebKit engine, and
  only code written in C, C++, and Objective-C may compile and
  directly link against the Documented APIs (e.g., Applications
  that link to Documented APIs through an intermediary translation
  or compatibility layer or tool are prohibited).

For more on this provenance aspect see Hank Williams' post:



The "must be originally written in" clause is the killer here.  Even 
translating RevTalk to generate C/C++/Objective-C code which was fully 
compliant with all technical aspects and in all ways indistinguishable 
from human-written code would be punishable under criminal law.


Whether using psuedocode during design, as is a common practice, also 
violates this clause has yet to be tested.



> What are the current plans and how have they changed runrev's
> previous plans for the revmobile product's base architecture
> and release protocols?

Currently unknown.

Kevin has noted here that he is in negotiations with Apple to determine 
the best course of action in light of their sweeping and unexpected 
change, and will report back here as soon as the outcome is known.


As currently written, Apple's current iPhone license agreement seems to 
leave only four options available to developers:


1. Developing using Apple APIs in only C/C++/Objective-C; because
   of the unusual provenance clause this option does not appear
   to be available to RunRev at this time.

2. Develop using JavaScript and WebKit; possible for RunRev, but
   while some of us do a bit of that in very limited ways it would
   no doubt be very costly to generate JS from the whole of RevTalk
   (though Toolbook kinda did that in a useful way).

3. Develop for the rest of the world and wait for Apple to change.

4. Develop for the rest of the world, and for iPhone OS deploy only
   for "in-house" use under the special provisioning rules that
   allow it, bypassing the AppStore.

I've seen nothing in the license or discussion of it which suggest there 
is a fifth option; at least any fifth option that doesn't leave 
developers even more exposed to risk than they already are.


I'm confident Kevin will choose from the limited options Apple has 
provided its developers the one that's in the best interest of this 
customers.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv


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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Andre Garzia]

An NDA was signed prior to all that
Apple-we-do-evil-but-it-is-beautiful-evil stuff.

It is not that people want to keep potential customers in the dark, it is
that so far the community does not know what is happening except for the
fact that RunRev team is in contact with Apple.

All we can say is that currently the way that Revolution Desktop works,
meaning, how the standalones are generated and how the engine works will not
work with Apple Agreement, so a change is needed on the engine. This is
information that is not related to the current fear from the 1.1.3 clause.
This is related to Apple preventing code compilation and execution at
runtime, this has be so since forever and RunRev was aware of it and
RevMobile will do things different than use a JIT compiler like it does now
on the Desktop.

So all in all, we can't tell you because we don't know.

If we knew we would not be able to tell but I believe that documentation
would be available.

Now, if someone in the community knows and I don't know, then, it is my
fault and and I am talking sh*t.

On Thu, May 6, 2010 at 3:03 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:

> Wow.
>
> So the only way for a potential customer to find out if the runrev mobile
> solution is likely to pass muster with Apple's new policy (to make an
> informed purchasing decision), is to purchase the program (and find out
> later)?  I question both the legality of that policy and the obvious and
> expected negative public relations and marketing outfall.
>
> And you guys are complaining about Steve Jobs' autocratic and anti-consumer
> openness?
>
>
> Randall Reetz
>
>
> On May 6, 2010, at 10:44 AM, stephen barncard wrote:
>
> > That's trade secret stuff at REV, and current users are on an NDA so they
> > can't talk about it here. You could find out by buying the product.
> >
> > On 6 May 2010 10:38, Randall Reetz  wrote:
> >
> >> Is there a resource online or a white paper that describes in basic
> >> language how runrev for mobile (specifically for apple products) works?
> >> Does it use apple's blessed dev environment at any step in the process?
>  In
> >> what form are the final builds?  Does it require a player app to be
> >> installed on each devise?  In short, how does runrev for mobile differ
> >> architecturally from the fully blessed apple environment and app format?
> >>
> >> What are the current plans and how have they changed runrev's previous
> >> plans for the revmobile product's base architecture and release
> protocols?
> >>
> >> Randall Reetz___
> >> use-revolution mailing list
> >> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> >> subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > -
> > Stephen Barncard
> > Back home in SF
> > ___
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >
>
> ___
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> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>



-- 
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Reetz]

Wow.

So the only way for a potential customer to find out if the runrev mobile 
solution is likely to pass muster with Apple's new policy (to make an informed 
purchasing decision), is to purchase the program (and find out later)?  I 
question both the legality of that policy and the obvious and expected negative 
public relations and marketing outfall.

And you guys are complaining about Steve Jobs' autocratic and anti-consumer 
openness?


Randall Reetz


On May 6, 2010, at 10:44 AM, stephen barncard wrote:

> That's trade secret stuff at REV, and current users are on an NDA so they
> can't talk about it here. You could find out by buying the product.
> 
> On 6 May 2010 10:38, Randall Reetz  wrote:
> 
>> Is there a resource online or a white paper that describes in basic
>> language how runrev for mobile (specifically for apple products) works?
>> Does it use apple's blessed dev environment at any step in the process?  In
>> what form are the final builds?  Does it require a player app to be
>> installed on each devise?  In short, how does runrev for mobile differ
>> architecturally from the fully blessed apple environment and app format?
>> 
>> What are the current plans and how have they changed runrev's previous
>> plans for the revmobile product's base architecture and release protocols?
>> 
>> Randall Reetz___
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> -
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Matthias Rebbe]

Randall,

at http://lessons.runrev.com/spaces/lessons/buckets/1004

you find lessons about revMobile. There is also a lesson about how to create an 
app with the PreAlpha.
Maybe this answers your questions.

Regards,

Matthias


Am 06.05.2010 um 19:38 schrieb Randall Reetz:

> Is there a resource online or a white paper that describes in basic language 
> how runrev for mobile (specifically for apple products) works?  Does it use 
> apple's blessed dev environment at any step in the process?  In what form are 
> the final builds?  Does it require a player app to be installed on each 
> devise?  In short, how does runrev for mobile differ architecturally from the 
> fully blessed apple environment and app format?
> 
> What are the current plans and how have they changed runrev's previous plans 
> for the revmobile product's base architecture and release protocols?
> 
> Randall Reetz___
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Reetz]

Also, will the iphone, ipad specific properties and messages be available for 
standard stacks?

One of the things I have always wanted is a way to declare and parameterize 
custom messages.  Does Rev support this?  For instance, I would like to declare 
as a property of a property that any delta of a property (within range) to 
propagate a message.

set the propMessage of the width [of card graphic x] to true for larger 
[smaller, within, without] than (300) absolute [relative]

The above script would tell card graphic x to send a message every time its 
width was changed to a value greater than 300 pixels.  The message sent would 
be "width_Message" and would carry the new property value in the container "it".

Randall


On May 6, 2010, at 10:38 AM, Randall Reetz wrote:

> Is there a resource online or a white paper that describes in basic language 
> how runrev for mobile (specifically for apple products) works?  Does it use 
> apple's blessed dev environment at any step in the process?  In what form are 
> the final builds?  Does it require a player app to be installed on each 
> devise?  In short, how does runrev for mobile differ architecturally from the 
> fully blessed apple environment and app format?
> 
> What are the current plans and how have they changed runrev's previous plans 
> for the revmobile product's base architecture and release protocols?
> 
> Randall Reetz___
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> preferences:
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Re: How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[stephen barncard]

That's trade secret stuff at REV, and current users are on an NDA so they
can't talk about it here. You could find out by buying the product.

On 6 May 2010 10:38, Randall Reetz  wrote:

> Is there a resource online or a white paper that describes in basic
> language how runrev for mobile (specifically for apple products) works?
>  Does it use apple's blessed dev environment at any step in the process?  In
> what form are the final builds?  Does it require a player app to be
> installed on each devise?  In short, how does runrev for mobile differ
> architecturally from the fully blessed apple environment and app format?
>
> What are the current plans and how have they changed runrev's previous
> plans for the revmobile product's base architecture and release protocols?
>
> Randall Reetz___
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> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
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>



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How exactly does runrev for ipad/iphone work?

[Randall Reetz]

Is there a resource online or a white paper that describes in basic language 
how runrev for mobile (specifically for apple products) works?  Does it use 
apple's blessed dev environment at any step in the process?  In what form are 
the final builds?  Does it require a player app to be installed on each devise? 
 In short, how does runrev for mobile differ architecturally from the fully 
blessed apple environment and app format?

What are the current plans and how have they changed runrev's previous plans 
for the revmobile product's base architecture and release protocols?

Randall Reetz___
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Re: Rev Videograbber camera compatibility

[stephen barncard]

I've just used videograbber with the Sony TRV-17 and TRV-11 as well as the
Hi8 Video/Firewire Deck GV-D200. Also an ancient Firewire iSight camera.

I prefer it to many other methods, mainly because the settings will allow me
to set the de-interlace to progressive.

The videograbber setting panel on the Mac is furnished by quicktime, so
compatibility is only limited to whatever limitations are of QT.

One of my big complaints about videograbber is that the audio monitoring and
switching is nonexistant.
In preview mode the audio can be barely heard; in record mode there is no
through audio as well.  There is also no way to set the input as one can do
with the audio.  However, speaking of the Mac version, everything gets
recorded just fine, and the resultant movs are of good quality.

As usual, audio in the video world gets low priority.

On 6 May 2010 09:04, Martin Koob  wrote:

> I have a rev based application that uses revvideograbber to
> capture video and it works well with DV (firewire) cameras
> (I have tested it with Sony, Cannon, JVC and
> panasonic DV camcorders.) and the built in mac iSight camera.
>
> (the only difficulty I have encountered is when you have a Cannon
> DV camera and certain Lacie external hard drives connected by
> firewire.)
>
> I have a question from a potential customer as to what cameras
> are compatible as a video source.
>
> Is it safe to say any quicktime compatible
> camera (USB, (DV)firewire, web cam?)
>
> If any of you have used RevVideograbber could you
> post the cameras that they have used to start a
> compatibility list?
>
> Thanks
>
> Martin Koob
>
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Re: How To Discover The Properties of a Control

[DunbarX]

Or you can download my "Wizard" from revOnLine. It does all that you asked 
for, and allows you to change values on the fly.

Craig Newman
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Re: How To Discover The Properties of a Control

[DunbarX]

try;

get the properties of yourControl
combine it with return and colon

This last because the properties is an array, and you need to change it to 
an ordinary variable in order to read it.

Craig Newman
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How To Discover The Properties of a Control

[Peter Haworth]

Is there a simple method to get a list of all the properties  
associated with a given control along with their settings?  I know how  
to get custom properties but I'm referring to the Revolution  
properties, most of which appear in the Property Inspector window.  I  
found the propertynames function ibut the dictionary claims it returns  
all the possible property names used by Revolution, not those  
associated with a specific control.


Thanks,

Pete Haworth







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Re: Great post on Jerry Daniels Blog

[David Bovill]

Yeah - mine too. 95% of sales to consumers on iOS for iPhone/iPad style
portable devices - 5% to developers on desktop / old style laptops.

On 6 May 2010 17:18, Jerry Daniels  wrote:

> Bob,
>
> I suggest reading Mr. Jobs like you would Bill Clinton. OS X and Macs will
> not be locked down. However, If a mobile Apple OS moves to a device that
> looks somewhat like a laptop it won't be called a Mac and it won't run OS X.
> Lock down.
>
> That's my take, anyway.
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry Daniels
>
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