Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
On Mar 16, 2008, at 1:21 AM, Chipp Walters wrote: Listen guys, my point, obviously not well made, was that making a bold claim works in getting people interested in one's product. As has been proven here, and I already understand that point you made. I like the kinds of advertising that says things like nothing cleans better than Our Brand!. That's a bold (pardon the pun) claim, but does leave you the option of saying that no matter how many other brands do clean better than yours, using nothing at al would also clean better. Of course, the advert isn't going to change now, not after being a big success, but for the mental exercise of it, Learn How to Program in 1 Day might have been better. It's still pretty bold, and yet you can be sure everyone will come away understanding how you program things, which is different to implying that programming would have been mastered. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
hello, any plan to sell later that DVD and screen captures later? I'm 10.000 km away and didn't start to play with revolution, but your DVD will help me to decide. Thanks Jose The Day One Pass previously offered just to people who purchased the RevSelect bundle is now available to everyone. People who attend will begin with a blank slate and by the end of the day will produce a fully operational standalone application that works on Mac, Windows, and Linux. The courses build on each other and follow a progression: - Revolution fundamentals - Important scripting concepts - Manipulating text and data - Working with the file system - Orchestrating multimedia content - Exchanging data over the Internet - Lightning-fast database processing - Migrating from HyperCard - Building a standalone executable Not only that, but those who order before March 31 will receive a free copy of the conference DVD, which contains all the sessions from the conference, all the sample stacks, etc. (It does not include the non-disclosure day, though.) In other words, you'll get an intensive day of instruction presented by the best and brightest people in the community (people who have been helping out on this list for YEARS). As the mailer states, this is a great opportunity to achieve liftoff for programming. Because not only do you get the in-person training, but you also get a DVD you can take home and review what you learned on that day... PLUS ALL THE OTHER SESSIONS held during the conference. That's an incredible amount of content... a great value. Anyone who is interested in better comprehension of Revolution will benefit immensley. As stated by others, learning is not mastery -- if there is such a thing. Learning hopefully is a lifelong process. We don't promise that you will be able to single-handedly build an Office Suite at the end of the day. We do promise that you will acquire the experience you need to begin using Revolution effectively. I think the content of the mailer elaborates on this clearly. To the extent the subject line of the email is slightly provocative/controversial and got people to open it to learn more, I'm not apologetic. :) Having said that, I also think it's accurate and if what you're doing there is not learning I don't know what is! - Bill ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Jose, any plan to sell later that DVD and screen captures later? I'm 10.000 km away and didn't start to play with revolution, but your DVD will help me to decide. Yes the DVD will be offered separately. The price will be $249. - Bill ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
To Richard Heather: yes! To everyone else: We all know that Rev is great... even dolts like me can hammer out something useful in a day.. (note that your consideration of ' useful ' is one of those things in which YMMV). I truly wish that my kids' first grade teacher would take Rev up on this... she'd not be persuaded by a tagline of spend two or three years in university to make a talking electronic book! I'm lovin' it! Judy On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 8:10 AM, Richard Gaskin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: jbv wrote: I for one have about 30 years of experience as a programmer, and have used about 20 different languages... Of course *mastering* programming takes a lifetime, and of course no one-day session will attempt to accomplish that. But my first experience with an xTalk (after deciding computers were boring back in high school from having learned BASIC on a Wang) was the exhilarating feeling that comes with making a button and scripting simply: on mouseUp go next end mouseUp In that instant I was hooked! I've spent the better part of the subsequent 20 years learning more; different languages, coding practices, style, architecture, design, workflow analysis, and I'm still learning new things every day. But it all has to begin somewhere. And with Rev, it's quite possible to learn enough to accomplish some small but satisfying tasks in a single day. That success will do more to encourage the new programmer to move on to 20 KLOC code bases than attempting such a beast first time out. Given that the art of programming is fueled by curiosity and enthusiasm, Marian's comments were more reflective of the process that leads toward success than many others in this thread. We can spend our day nit-picking the wording of other people's marketing, or we can accept that perhaps RunRev's invitation wasn't targeted at those of us who've been coding for decades, and instead devote our energies to learning and sharing that learning. Which is a more compelling demonstration of accomplishment? -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
But not good for a complete beginner, who keeps hearing that, to do anything useful, you have to learn to *program*... It's the P-word that keeps people from even trying, hence, if you tell then they can learn to p- in a day... (no pun intended) Judy On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 8:52 AM, jbv [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Heather, JB: I imagine you could probably learn quite a bit of Flash in one day. Since Rev is enormously better than Flash*** its certainly possible to learn to do useful work with it in one day. I've been using Xtalk since 1987 and still discover tricks and new more efficient ways to achieve tasks with it So I agree with you : it's no doubt possible to learn/teach the basics of Rev in 1 day, but that's a completely different thing than learning programming in 1 day. Besides, what ppl evaluate as useful things is often determined by their own level of programming skills. A complete newbie will be thrilled to be able to build an adress book with a search function in 1 single day (often by reusing pieces of code from various examples), but well, who would dare to say that he/she learned programming ? I don't want to keep this thread running forever, but I keep thinking that code as you think would have been a better claim... Best regards, JB ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Learn Programming in 1 Day
Semantics time: There is a huge difference between Learn Programming in 1 Day and Learn How to Produce Functioning Programs in 1 Day. The first title, which ever way you cut it, is fairly nonsensical; HOWEVER, the second makes perfect sense with regard to Runtime Revolution. sincerely, Richmond Mathewson. A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle. ___ Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Richmond, sorry to be so abrasive, but IMHO none of these titles makes any sense... The 1st one has been already discussed. As for the 2nd one, what exactly is a functioning Program ? put 1 + 1 into a is a functionning program, as well as echo hello world; and both can be built in a large number of languages in less than a minute... Furthermore, I don't think this topic has anything to do with semantics, but rather with the ergonomics of coding... Therefore, I'd prefer Learn how to produce a functionning piece of software that will boost your (or your client's )productivity and that isn't already available as freeware, shareware or commercial app in 1 day... Or, as suggested in earlier posts, much better : Learn how to code as you think in 1 day Kill your fear of programming in 1 day Best, JB Semantics time: There is a huge difference between Learn Programming in 1 Day and Learn How to Produce Functioning Programs in 1 Day. The first title, which ever way you cut it, is fairly nonsensical; HOWEVER, the second makes perfect sense with regard to Runtime Revolution. sincerely, Richmond Mathewson. A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle. ___ Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Enough. This is advertising, guys. Like a headline, it is meant to catch your eye and get you to read on. There's nothing sinister (or insulting) at all about it. And, in fact, it did exactly what it was designed to do, at least in my case. Do you guys get this hot and bothered about books that tell you you will learn to program in C in 24 hours (Sam's guides, if memory serves)? Of course not. = On Mar 15, 2008, at 11:14 AM, jbv wrote: Richmond, sorry to be so abrasive, but IMHO none of these titles makes any sense... The 1st one has been already discussed. As for the 2nd one, what exactly is a functioning Program ? put 1 + 1 into a is a functionning program, as well as echo hello world; and both can be built in a large number of languages in less than a minute... Furthermore, I don't think this topic has anything to do with semantics, but rather with the ergonomics of coding... Therefore, I'd prefer Learn how to produce a functionning piece of software that will boost your (or your client's )productivity and that isn't already available as freeware, shareware or commercial app in 1 day... Or, as suggested in earlier posts, much better : Learn how to code as you think in 1 day Kill your fear of programming in 1 day Best, JB Semantics time: There is a huge difference between Learn Programming in 1 Day and Learn How to Produce Functioning Programs in 1 Day. The first title, which ever way you cut it, is fairly nonsensical; HOWEVER, the second makes perfect sense with regard to Runtime Revolution. sincerely, Richmond Mathewson. A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle. ___ Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Learn Programming in 1 Day
sorry to be so abrasive, but IMHO none of these titles makes any sense... I found it very disappointing that the book Make Love the Bruce Campbell Way didn't improve my sex life ;-) http://www.amazon.com/Make-Love-Bruce-Campbell-Way/dp/0312312601 Sorry, couldn't resist :-) Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Proactive International, LLC - Because it is about who you know.(tm) http://www.proactive-intl.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
actually we understand it too well : like a headline or advertising, it deals with the positionning of a product among the community of experienced users and newbies as well... And like an ad that misses its target, it might keep newbies away (because they'll realize it's still about programming) and will confort experienced programmers in their view of Rev as a cheap toy for beginners (just like plug play kept legions of ppl away from the Mac for years). It probably worked for you coz you're already convinced of the advantages of using Rev... JB Enough. This is advertising, guys. Like a headline, it is meant to catch your eye and get you to read on. There's nothing sinister (or insulting) at all about it. And, in fact, it did exactly what it was designed to do, at least in my case. Do you guys get this hot and bothered about books that tell you you will learn to program in C in 24 hours (Sam's guides, if memory serves)? Of course not. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Just a jolly good hoot in my opinion! Dave On 15 Mar 2008, at 15:54, Richmond Mathewson wrote: Semantics time: There is a huge difference between Learn Programming in 1 Day and Learn How to Produce Functioning Programs in 1 Day. The first title, which ever way you cut it, is fairly nonsensical; HOWEVER, the second makes perfect sense with regard to Runtime Revolution. sincerely, Richmond Mathewson. A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle. ___ Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Learn Programming in 1 Day
jbv wrote: sorry to be so abrasive Ha, Ha; nothing wrong with a bit of abrasion; I have scars to prove it! Love You All! What really scares me are the folks who cannot cope with a bit of abrasion. I do like your Kill your fear of programming in 1 day Maybe the 'P' word should jump up on the shelf with such other heros such as the 'F' word - however that would be a wee bit too politically correct for the likes of me, and Real Programming is 'F-word' hard work :) Now both you and I, and a fair few folk forbye can take somebody else's work and tweak it about; that, however, is not programming, that is only tweaking. I, also, spent some time in the University of Abertay's grey, depressing walls being taught Visual Basic, and I well remember a young lassie of some 25 summers who could not even wrap her tongue round English vocables (being fluent - or mayhap 'effluent'- in gutter Dundonian Scots) asking me why her program did not work even though she had copied what the lecturer had telt us; and the answer was a simple as this:- You cannot teach programming by showing wains models and having them tweak them. Forbye, she did not understand what a FOR . . . NEXT LOOP was because the lecturer had provided a model with said loop in place and blethered something about repeating itself until it was finished. Now I teach programming to Primary Children; starting with ye olde fashioned flow-charts on ye olde fashioned black board and buttons and cups to demonstrate how A = A + 1 is possible. However, just like musicians; there are real pianists (that is why my older son practices 4-8 hours a day!) and Sunday-Afternoon-in-the-front-parlour pianists. Similarly with people who make computer programmers; however a Sunday-Afternoon-in-the-front-parlour pianist will never, never be a Vladimir Ashkenazy or a Daniel Barenboim. And anybody who tells wee Jimmy he can be a great piano player by doing half-an-hour a day and no Solfeggio, Theory or Harmony should be hit over the head with a brick! Now who is being abrasive? But, face it, the world is becoming mediocre, and Sunday-Afternoon-in-the-front-parlour pianists are being praised to the skies because they can belt out The Flower of Scotland without an ounce of feeling! I only wish I had the money and the time to attend the Learn Programming in 1 Day course, where, without trying in any way to be funny, I am quite sure I would learn a lot. And, further to that I would like to say that I think it is an awful pity that people seem to have taken my initial e-mail that initiated this series as an attack on the course as such, when it was merely meant as a 'poke' at the daft title it was given. I have nothing but admiration for Jacque and her colleagues, and their efforts. sincerely, Richmond Mathewson A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle. ___ Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
[Increasing OT; thank Goodness] Learn Programming in 1 Day
Dave wrote: Just a jolly good hoot in my opinion! Of course! But some people take things way too seriously . . . Love, Richmond Mathewson. PS. I was born in 1962, and in 1963-4 my parents used to leave me with the farmer's wife next door while they went out for the evening; I watched the Beatles with Meanie McLean and my first words were not predictable Mama, Mama, but Yeah, Yeah, Yeah . . . and, dear people, I having been saying Yeah, Yeah, Yeah ever since! A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle. ___ Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Touchy! Stop it! It's just a wind up! Come on if someone sends me an email that says Learn Programming in 1 Day then look out cos I will make fun of it! No malice intended! Take Care and Thanks for all you Help! All the Best Dave On 14 Mar 2008, at 15:37, J. Landman Gay wrote: Dave wrote: Maybe be the RunRev programming team were of the same course! Would explain a lot! Hey, go easy on us, okay? :) I'm teaching that thing, along with some very talented others. The course will be a whirlwind intro to Rev including some basic programming concepts, intended for those who have little to no experience. I didn't write the marketing blitz, but I do think that when we're done, the students will have enough information to continue on their own and increase their skills. And by the end of the day they will have proceded from zero knowledge to a working, internet-connected standalone stack. That's sort of programming, don't you think? Sort of? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
JB, And like an ad that misses its target, it might keep newbies away (because they'll realize it's still about programming) The mailer's performing nicely, actually. Question: If you're not interested in programming, how would you end up on our mailing list, and why would you purchase Revolution? I mean, we're a very easy-to-use product, but I don't think you can get away without coding. and will confort experienced programmers in their view of Rev as a cheap toy for beginners (just like plug play kept legions of ppl away from the Mac for years). Product positioning is as much about who will NOT use a product as who will. People buying Hummers don't put the environment at the top of their list, people who buy fur coats aren't PETA members, and so on. While Rev certainly has a strong case against the alternatives, trying to be all things to all people is a sure way to fail. We'll probably never drop easy to learn, easy to use from the list of Revolution core benefits. It's what differentiates us from the other guys and makes it worth learning a non-standard language. Similarly, this is not an event for people just off the street. You have to be interested in programming or you're not going to take time off work, travel, and spend money on a conference like this. Fortunately, Rev has adopted an empricially-oriented marketing approach based on analysis of sales and marketing campaigns, plus surveys like the one we did last summer. Learn programming scores very high on the list of reasons why people came to the Rev web site in the first place. Also high on the list is the desire to quickly develop in-house tools/utilities, database front-ends, and other work projects. The members of this segment are casual programmers for whom coding is not a primary job responsibility. They are enterpreneurs, consultants, managers, teachers, scientists, and creative people. Nevertheless they recognize the value of being able to streamline business processes, integrate disparate business systems, create multimedia software etc. They are curious about technology, and aspire to have greater control over their computers. We know exactly what percentage of our users fall into these groups, as well as how many are professional programmers developing commercial applications. Because of this empirical focus, we've been able to tune in much more effectively to our customer segments' needs. Over the past year, we've acquired newcomers to Rev (across the entire skill spectrum) at a markedly faster clip than in the past. That's evidence we are hitting the target better than ever. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
jbv wrote: ...will confort experienced programmers in their view of Rev as a cheap toy for beginners Dude, having a priced-like-a-disposable-toy $49 version does far more for that than a single line in one press release. Besides, as I've mentioned before, when it comes to evangelizing Rev as a second language, a single line in one press release is nothing compared to the nature of Rev itself: One could argue that whatever more professional wording you might prefer would be even more misleading, because ultimately no matter how you seduce an experienced programmer to using Rev, the language and object model will always and only be very different from anything they've learned before. I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing, but if you really think this one line from a single press release is going to have more impact on adoption among professional developers than the product experience itself, I would encourage you to reconsider your premise. That press release has already left the station, and there are much, much bigger fish to fry -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Richmond wrote: Semantics time: There is a huge difference between Learn Programming in 1 Day and Learn How to Produce Functioning Programs in 1 Day. The first title, which ever way you cut it, is fairly nonsensical; Richmond, I'm curious: what is the specific number of days you would consider a minimum for applying the phrase learn programming? Eight? 23? Hundreds? Thousands? 4067? Hundreds of thousands? And please define programming. Thanks - -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Richmond wrote: I do like your Kill your fear of programming in 1 day Me too. I think it's perhaps the best so far. Heather, taking note? -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Media Corporation ___ [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.FourthWorld.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Learn Programming in 1 Day
Richard Gaskin wrote: what is the specific number of days you would consider a minimum for applying the phrase learn programming? Eight? 23? Hundreds? Thousands? 4067? Hundreds of thousands? And please define programming. OUCH ! Part 1: I suppose learning programming (as I understand the term) is rather like learning a human language; an ongoing, never ending process involving a constant process of refinement. Part 2: Programming; Well we could try comparing the 6 year-olds I have worked with just now for 6 weeks who can manage I have a father, but when you say to them Has your friend got a father they look at you as if you are daft because they don't understand 'has'; with your good self, who, presumably, judging by the standard of your e-mails are highly proficient in English :) How about this definition: When your abilities with a particular programming language / IDE is as good as Richard Gaskin's English you can call yourself a programmer. sincerely, Richmond Mathewson A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle. ___ Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
I'm all for: Learn Programming in 1 Day As a captivating headline, I'd say it's doing it's job just fine. Witness the results. Good job Bill! Years ago I attended an incredible PR and marketing seminar. And for a rather hefty fee, they shared some secrets of creating compelling headlines..one's which are proven to work. One of them was called 'The Bold Claim,' and I'd say Heather, Bill and RunRev have done just that. Certainly, from one perspective or another, you can argue for or against...but I GUARANTEE you a headline like: 'Full day of Rev training for beginners' wouldn't have garnered near this amount of discussion. And in the business of PR and Marketing, as we all know, creating a buzz is a good thing. I mean the whole Thinnest laptop in the world by Apple, while not true, sure get's folks talking! Bravo! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
On Mar 15, 2008, at 4:24 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: snip Thinnest laptop in the world by Apple, while not true, sure get's folks talking! Bravo! NOT TRUE? The average thickness of the AIR is less than 1/2. Is there a thinner one? On the other stuff about Buzz words, I agree whole heartedly. So long as it is not a bold face lie; but, rather, an obvious exaggeration. I really can't countenance lies for any purpose. Even great advertising. In this case, everyone knows it is just hype, tongue in cheek hyperbole. RIGHT? Joe Wilkins ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 5:39 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: NOT TRUE? The average thickness of the AIR is less than 1/2. Is there a thinner one? There's that wordsmithing again. Average thickness? Check out the Vaio X505 which is thinner than Air at a maximum thickness of 0.8. I suppose one could glue on super thin wings on each side of the Vaio to get it's 'average thickness' down a bit. Funny, when I go to buy a pair of pants, I don't 'average' all of the dimensions around my body to arrive at a waist size (which frankly, is too large!). But, hat's off to Apple for the hyperbole. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Frankly, Chip, the phrase average thickness was mine; not Apples. I just didn't want to list the max and min; and I believe the max thickness of AIr is less than 0.8 @ 0.76 Min. @ 0.16. You made me look it up. Joe Wilkins On Mar 15, 2008, at 4:51 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 5:39 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: NOT TRUE? The average thickness of the AIR is less than 1/2. Is there a thinner one? There's that wordsmithing again. Average thickness? Check out the Vaio X505 which is thinner than Air at a maximum thickness of 0.8. I suppose one could glue on super thin wings on each side of the Vaio to get it's 'average thickness' down a bit. Funny, when I go to buy a pair of pants, I don't 'average' all of the dimensions around my body to arrive at a waist size (which frankly, is too large!). But, hat's off to Apple for the hyperbole. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
On Mar 15, 2008, at 7:51 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: But, hat's off to Apple for the hyperbole. Well, of course they have hyperbole, having got rid of hypercard. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Whatever. and it's Chipp, with 2 p's. And here's one thinner. So there. Big deal. http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2007/tc20070523_272039.htm On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frankly, Chip, the phrase average thickness was mine; not Apples. I just didn't want to list the max and min; and I believe the max thickness of AIr is less than 0.8 @ 0.76 Min. @ 0.16. You made me look it up. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
On Mar 15, 2008, at 10:20 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: Whatever. and it's Chipp, with 2 p's. He was trying to make you thinner too. And here's one thinner. So there. Big deal. http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2007/tc20070523_272039.htm Did that machine ever ship? By the time it shipped, was it called a MacBook Air? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
That computer doesn't even exist. It is a planned prototype. and since the article is from last year it never was produced. .76 down to .16 And unlike other computer prototypes, including some from Intel, this one actually may line the shelves of a retailer before long. Intel hasn't announced an official release date but people familiar with the matter say a PC maker will announce plans to start manufacturing the machine later this year. On Mar 15, 2008, at 10:20 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: Whatever. and it's Chipp, with 2 p's. And here's one thinner. So there. Big deal. http://www.businessweek.com/technology/content/may2007/tc20070523_272039.htm On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 6:12 PM, Joe Lewis Wilkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Frankly, Chip, the phrase average thickness was mine; not Apples. I just didn't want to list the max and min; and I believe the max thickness of AIr is less than 0.8 @ 0.76 Min. @ 0.16. You made me look it up. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
I didn't remember Apple's bold claim to be Thinnest laptop which shipped. I was in Japan a couple of months ago, and they had a couple of laptops thinner than the Mac Air. And a quick Google on Apple's thinnest laptop claim finds this on page one: http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/weblog/comments/apples_new_macbook_air_not_the_thinnest_notebook_ever/ Listen guys, my point, obviously not well made, was that making a bold claim works in getting people interested in one's product. On Sun, Mar 16, 2008 at 12:07 AM, Thomas McGrath III [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That computer doesn't even exist. It is a planned prototype. and since the article is from last year it never was produced. .76 down to .16 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
On Sat, Mar 15, 2008 at 9:59 PM, Colin Holgate [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Mar 15, 2008, at 10:20 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: Whatever. and it's Chipp, with 2 p's. He was trying to make you thinner too. Ha! good one. I only wish it was that easy! Did that machine ever ship? By the time it shipped, was it called a MacBook Air? Good point... ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Learn Programming in 1 Day
Learn Programming in 1 Day really ? I must be extremely stupid then. And, no I don't need 100 replies to confirm the above:) love, Richmond A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle. ___ Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
A, but surely with the modern day RunRev stupidity is a thing of the past! They have a cunning knack of shooting themselves in the foot, how many toes are left? Can hardly type for tears of laughter and it's not even April yet! On 14 Mar 2008, at 10:16, Richmond Mathewson wrote: Learn Programming in 1 Day really ? I must be extremely stupid then. And, no I don't need 100 replies to confirm the above:) love, Richmond A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle. ___ Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Depends on what you mean by programming... I've often met graphic designers using Flash who write scripts with a complexity equivalent to go prev / go next, or who copy/paste some scripts they grabbed on the web and in which they change 1 or 2 parameters, and then claim to be graphic designers AND programmers... In that case, I guess 1 day is enough... JB Learn Programming in 1 Day really ? I must be extremely stupid then. And, no I don't need 100 replies to confirm the above:) love, Richmond __ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Maybe be the RunRev programming team were of the same course! Would explain a lot! ducking for cover Happy Weekend! Dave On 14 Mar 2008, at 11:20, jbv wrote: Depends on what you mean by programming... I've often met graphic designers using Flash who write scripts with a complexity equivalent to go prev / go next, or who copy/paste some scripts they grabbed on the web and in which they change 1 or 2 parameters, and then claim to be graphic designers AND programmers... In that case, I guess 1 day is enough... JB Learn Programming in 1 Day really ? I must be extremely stupid then. And, no I don't need 100 replies to confirm the above:) love, Richmond __ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
I realize these comments are intended primarily as humor. However turning serious for a minute, this sounds like a great opportunity for self-taught programmers like me to actually build a solid foundation (instead of the sloppy mess I currently muddle by with--hey, I DO have my roots in BASIC after all--color me master of spaghetti code) onto which to tack the day-to-day learning we are doing. My 2 cents. M On Mar 14, 2008, at 6:29 AM, Dave wrote: Maybe be the RunRev programming team were of the same course! Would explain a lot! ducking for cover Happy Weekend! Dave On 14 Mar 2008, at 11:20, jbv wrote: Depends on what you mean by programming... I've often met graphic designers using Flash who write scripts with a complexity equivalent to go prev / go next, or who copy/paste some scripts they grabbed on the web and in which they change 1 or 2 parameters, and then claim to be graphic designers AND programmers... In that case, I guess 1 day is enough... JB Learn Programming in 1 Day really ? I must be extremely stupid then. And, no I don't need 100 replies to confirm the above:) love, Richmond __ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Petrides, M.D. Marian a *crit : I realize these comments are intended primarily as humor. are they really ? I for one have about 30 years of experience as a programmer, and have used about 20 different languages, including such weird things as uP / uC assembler or MIDI programming language like MAX, and still am reluctant to claim to be a programmer since almost everyday I come across pieces of code much smarter than what I could write, or need to post questions to this list from time to time... I think a better approach could have been : code as you think... JB ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
I really don't it's quite fair to belittle this effort. If I were still in my early stages of learning rev, I'd really want to take that course. Jacque is one of the best Rev-xTalk educators around, and she communicates very well. Actually, she's educated me since my first day on this list in 2002, and her presentations at Revcon were very useful to me. Even as a HC programmer since 1987, there are always things for me to learn from Jacque, Dan, Chipp, Jerry, Ken, Andre, and others. sqb -- stephen barncard s a n f r a n c i s c o - - - - - - - - - - - - ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Richmond, if you think we can't teach the basics of using Revolution to new users in just one day, I challenge you to come along and see for yourself. If you go home again without having learned anything new I will personally refund your ticket**. The aim of the day is to give new users a thorough grounding in Revolution, and the tools to continue to learn. Besides, the day finishes with a Cocktail Soiree, you get to party on down with Jo and the rest of the team - I wonder if Jo really will get that Vegas costume she was talking about... Dave: about 200 (toes). JB: I imagine you could probably learn quite a bit of Flash in one day. Since Rev is enormously better than Flash*** its certainly possible to learn to do useful work with it in one day. Marian: with Jacque, Devin, Kevin, Scott and Andre teaching you, this is going to turn out to be the smartest decision of the year for you. Warm Regards, Heather **Offer open exclusively to Richmond Mathewson, new things learned includes what Kevin and Mark are really like, how expert all the presenters are on Revolution and how incredibly hard they work. ***My biased opinion based on having worked for Runtime for the last 10 years (we must be doing something right, eh, we're still here and more toes than even before) On 14 Mar 2008, at 11:50, Petrides, M.D. Marian wrote: I realize these comments are intended primarily as humor. However turning serious for a minute, this sounds like a great opportunity for self-taught programmers like me to actually build a solid foundation (instead of the sloppy mess I currently muddle by with--hey, I DO have my roots in BASIC after all--color me master of spaghetti code) onto which to tack the day-to-day learning we are doing. My 2 cents. M On Mar 14, 2008, at 6:29 AM, Dave wrote: Maybe be the RunRev programming team were of the same course! Would explain a lot! ducking for cover Happy Weekend! Dave On 14 Mar 2008, at 11:20, jbv wrote: Depends on what you mean by programming... I've often met graphic designers using Flash who write scripts with a complexity equivalent to go prev / go next, or who copy/paste some scripts they grabbed on the web and in which they change 1 or 2 parameters, and then claim to be graphic designers AND programmers... In that case, I guess 1 day is enough... JB Learn Programming in 1 Day really ? I must be extremely stupid then. And, no I don't need 100 replies to confirm the above:) love, Richmond __ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Heather Nagey Customer Services Manager Runtime Revolution Ltd http://www.runrev.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
At 2:56 PM + 3/14/08, Heather Nagey wrote: Richmond, if you think we can't teach the basics of using Revolution to new users in just one day, I challenge you to come along and see for yourself. I feel sure that some of the comments were distinguishing between what most people do with tools like Rev, and what programming is. Taking an extreme example, anyone who goes to your one day thing will certainly get a good head start in doing useful things with Rev, and someone who learned programming in a day could come away and write Revolution itself. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
jbv wrote: I for one have about 30 years of experience as a programmer, and have used about 20 different languages... Of course *mastering* programming takes a lifetime, and of course no one-day session will attempt to accomplish that. But my first experience with an xTalk (after deciding computers were boring back in high school from having learned BASIC on a Wang) was the exhilarating feeling that comes with making a button and scripting simply: on mouseUp go next end mouseUp In that instant I was hooked! I've spent the better part of the subsequent 20 years learning more; different languages, coding practices, style, architecture, design, workflow analysis, and I'm still learning new things every day. But it all has to begin somewhere. And with Rev, it's quite possible to learn enough to accomplish some small but satisfying tasks in a single day. That success will do more to encourage the new programmer to move on to 20 KLOC code bases than attempting such a beast first time out. Given that the art of programming is fueled by curiosity and enthusiasm, Marian's comments were more reflective of the process that leads toward success than many others in this thread. We can spend our day nit-picking the wording of other people's marketing, or we can accept that perhaps RunRev's invitation wasn't targeted at those of us who've been coding for decades, and instead devote our energies to learning and sharing that learning. Which is a more compelling demonstration of accomplishment? -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Dave wrote: Maybe be the RunRev programming team were of the same course! Would explain a lot! Hey, go easy on us, okay? :) I'm teaching that thing, along with some very talented others. The course will be a whirlwind intro to Rev including some basic programming concepts, intended for those who have little to no experience. I didn't write the marketing blitz, but I do think that when we're done, the students will have enough information to continue on their own and increase their skills. And by the end of the day they will have proceded from zero knowledge to a working, internet-connected standalone stack. That's sort of programming, don't you think? Sort of? -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Heather, JB: I imagine you could probably learn quite a bit of Flash in one day. Since Rev is enormously better than Flash*** its certainly possible to learn to do useful work with it in one day. I've been using Xtalk since 1987 and still discover tricks and new more efficient ways to achieve tasks with it So I agree with you : it's no doubt possible to learn/teach the basics of Rev in 1 day, but that's a completely different thing than learning programming in 1 day. Besides, what ppl evaluate as useful things is often determined by their own level of programming skills. A complete newbie will be thrilled to be able to build an adress book with a search function in 1 single day (often by reusing pieces of code from various examples), but well, who would dare to say that he/she learned programming ? I don't want to keep this thread running forever, but I keep thinking that code as you think would have been a better claim... Best regards, JB ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Richard Gaskin a *crit : But my first experience with an xTalk (after deciding computers were boring back in high school from having learned BASIC on a Wang) was the exhilarating feeling that comes with making a button and scripting simply: on mouseUp go next end mouseUp In that instant I was hooked! so why not say Get hooked in 1 day ?;-) Seriously, I guess you already know from my contrbutions to this list during the past few years that, although I've used different prog. languages, xTalk remains my favorite. But I'm afraid that claims such as learn programming in 1 day will keep most serious programmers away from Rev for a long time, as they'll keep seeing it as a funny toy for beginners... How many times have we seen claims such as do your own magazine in no time in the desktop publishing era, or build your website in hours more recently ? Besides, any seriously motivated person can learn the basics of programming with various languages in short time... Yes, it'll be less fun and it'll take a load more of motivation but nevertheless it can be done. I for one learned programming in Fortran and PDP11 assembler, and believe me in short time I was hooked. The truth is that programmability is an addiction per se. And of course, the more ergonomic, the more addictive it gets... What makes HC offspring so unique (and attractive) is the combination of the stack/card paradigm with the possibility to code in (almost) fluent english... And again, sorry for repeating myself (yes I'm aging), but code as you think is better IMHO... May be it's been used already... Best, JB ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
jbv wrote: Richard Gaskin a *crit : But my first experience with an xTalk (after deciding computers were boring back in high school from having learned BASIC on a Wang) was the exhilarating feeling that comes with making a button and scripting simply: on mouseUp go next end mouseUp In that instant I was hooked! so why not say Get hooked in 1 day ?;-) Because it conjures images of meth addicts from Barstow. :) Seriously, I guess you already know from my contrbutions to this list during the past few years that, although I've used different prog. languages, xTalk remains my favorite. But I'm afraid that claims such as learn programming in 1 day will keep most serious programmers away from Rev for a long time, as they'll keep seeing it as a funny toy for beginners... Maybe, but I'd argue that the biggest hurdle for learning Rev as a second language has more to do with the things we love about it, all the unique differences which I feel give Rev a productivity advantage but which are absolutely mind-bending for developers experienced with other systems. At the heart of this is pondering what the definition of is is, or more specifically, what programming is. If they'd said Master programming in a day!, I'd be right there with you. But to be able to write a simple program in a day is fully achievable for beginners, and in my own view constitutes programming. Meeting you halfway, perhaps future marketing might use Learn the basics of programming in a day. That should satisfy just about everyone, while still remaining attractive to those for whom it's intended. ...but code as you think is better IMHO... I dunno. Some folks think in pretty strange ways. ;) In fact, I don't know that I even think in terms of how the engine thinks. For example, when my gal asks me where I left the car keys, I've never said, get the keys of car of drawer topleft of cabinet counter of room kitchen of this house. I agree that one of Rev's main benefits is that it's extremely-high-level language and object model allows us to spend more time thinking in terms of UI rather than API. But I've not yet come across a tagline which expresses that well. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Learn Programming in 1 Day
Heather Nagey wrote: If you go home again without having learned anything new I will personally refund your ticket**. To which: 1. What a jolly nice offer. 2. I am absolutely sure I would learn lots of new things. 3. 'Learning lots of new things' does not constitute Learning Programming in 1 Day. To suggest that one can Learn Programming (and by 'Programming' I understand quite a comprehensive understanding) in 1 day is disingenuous and, potentially, rather misleading. It reminds me of my younger son's IT lessons at school: how to boot up WinXP, how to shutdown WinXP, how to send an e-mail, how to type a letter on MSOffice, save it and open it again. Luckily the average 12 year-old in Bulgaria is about a light-year ahead of the Minister for Education so is not badly misled. My knowledge of programming (which I would characterise as Intermediate at best) is based on lessons and experience with programming in a variety of programming languages across 12 different types of computers and a lot of operating systems (remember MOS ?). Anything I would learn at your conference would be information that I could pile on top of 33 years of previous knowledge; unless of course you are intending to explain the details of subroutines. Unfortunately, or fortunately (which depends if you want a six-foot-something red-head in a kilt with an aggressive attitude to boot) I cannot afford an air-ticket to anywhere just at the moment. I, also, don't drink cocktails. Now, on a point that is much more serious; could some people have a look at my TEXTIFIER stack, Please. sincerely, Richmond Mathewson A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle. ___ Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Learn Programming in 1 Day
S. Barncard wrote: I really don't it's quite fair to belittle this effort. If I were still in my early stages of learning rev, I'd really want to take that course. I have no intention of belittling Jacque's efforts. I just saw 'red' when I saw the title. How about Learn The Salient Central Points to Runtime Revolution Programming in 1 Day ? It is not as catchy; but it might be less misleading. sincerely, Richmond Mathewson A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle. ___ Rise to the challenge for Sport Relief with Yahoo! For Good http://uk.promotions.yahoo.com/forgood/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
I honestly think that learning to program in Rev in a day is not far off the mark. The problem (as it is with java, .net, flex, etc.) isn't the language its the framework. Rev (and the rest of them for that matter) has such a rich framework that I doubt anyone really knows them completely, we just use the objects we like and make them do what we want. In fact, they should put a copy of Rev media on the 199 laptop initiative (and asus EEs). Soon we would have an avalanche of Rev users! I personally could not think of a better starting language than rev. Once it gives us multi-stack capability I am not sure why it wouldn't be the preferred language for almost any task. Neal Campbell www.abrohamnealsoftware.com AIM:nealk3nc On Mar 14, 2008, at 1:21 PM, Richard Gaskin wrote: jbv wrote: Richard Gaskin a *crit : But my first experience with an xTalk (after deciding computers were boring back in high school from having learned BASIC on a Wang) was the exhilarating feeling that comes with making a button and scripting simply: on mouseUp go next end mouseUp In that instant I was hooked! so why not say Get hooked in 1 day ?;-) Because it conjures images of meth addicts from Barstow. :) Seriously, I guess you already know from my contrbutions to this list during the past few years that, although I've used different prog. languages, xTalk remains my favorite. But I'm afraid that claims such as learn programming in 1 day will keep most serious programmers away from Rev for a long time, as they'll keep seeing it as a funny toy for beginners... Maybe, but I'd argue that the biggest hurdle for learning Rev as a second language has more to do with the things we love about it, all the unique differences which I feel give Rev a productivity advantage but which are absolutely mind-bending for developers experienced with other systems. At the heart of this is pondering what the definition of is is, or more specifically, what programming is. If they'd said Master programming in a day!, I'd be right there with you. But to be able to write a simple program in a day is fully achievable for beginners, and in my own view constitutes programming. Meeting you halfway, perhaps future marketing might use Learn the basics of programming in a day. That should satisfy just about everyone, while still remaining attractive to those for whom it's intended. ...but code as you think is better IMHO... I dunno. Some folks think in pretty strange ways. ;) In fact, I don't know that I even think in terms of how the engine thinks. For example, when my gal asks me where I left the car keys, I've never said, get the keys of car of drawer topleft of cabinet counter of room kitchen of this house. I agree that one of Rev's main benefits is that it's extremely-high- level language and object model allows us to spend more time thinking in terms of UI rather than API. But I've not yet come across a tagline which expresses that well. -- Richard Gaskin Managing Editor, revJournal ___ Rev tips, tutorials and more: http://www.revJournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Learn Programming in 1 Day Certainly a bold claim-- not unlike many of the claims I make to my clients like, Write a Timeline based Video Editor with 3 Audio Tracks, from Scratch in under 40 hours. Frankly, Rev's bold claim has already been the subject of near 20 messages on this list-- I'd say it's doing it's job nicely promoting the 'before' session. Well done. I will also add: At the last RevCon held in Monterey, Jacque did a marvelous job with the same format (though unfortunately we didn't have the catchy headline) and it received some of the highest marks of all sessions for the conference. And while I doubt it's targeted directly at existing professional software developers, they will MOST CERTAINLY learn new stuff. Heck, Dan and I learned new stuff the few times we peeked in! Richmond, I'd agree with Heather, you certainly will learn lots more than you know today. In fact, these conferences are wonderful events for learning new stuff about Rev. I encourage people to plan on going-- I'll certainly be there! -Chipp ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Richard Gaskin wrote: In fact, I don't know that I even think in terms of how the engine thinks. For example, when my gal asks me where I left the car keys, I've never said, get the keys of car of drawer topleft of cabinet counter of room kitchen of this house. LOL. But I bet you wanted to. :) -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
On Mar 14, 2008, at 2:51 PM, Chipp Walters wrote: Frankly, Rev's bold claim has already been the subject of near 20 messages on this list-- I'd say it's doing it's job nicely promoting the 'before' session. Well done. That it has. I had figured this conference was WAY over my head until I got the pre-conference session email yesterday. Now, I'm planning on attending the full conference + pre conference and also am trying to rope one or two of my other colleagues into coming along. Good show! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Chipp Walters wrote: I will also add: At the last RevCon held in Monterey, Jacque did a marvelous job with the same format (though unfortunately we didn't have the catchy headline) and it received some of the highest marks of all sessions for the conference. I have to say, much or most of that success was due to Devin, who has extensive experience teaching Rev. He's just a marvel at it, and his instincts for what newcomers need to learn is spot-on. The good part is, he's helping me with this year's sessions too, for which I am very grateful. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED] HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Marian Petrides, MD a *crit : Now, I'm planning on attending the full conference + pre conference and what about post - conference ? sorry... couldn't resist... JB ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Ladies and gentlemen, What we have been witnessing here is the 'thin-skin' phenomenon that all programmers must go through in order to become MASTER Programmers. This problem starts occurring from the day a potential programmer cuts his/her first line of code for an end user and continues to the day the last mousebutton is clicked. The only remedy for this minor irritation is to sit back, have a good laugh and go on to the next problem. If we can't give as good as we get, then we shouldn't be classing ourselves as 'experts'. My only suggestion to the presenters of the learn Programming in 1 Day sessions would be for them to stress what I have just said to the people attending the introduction. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
I'm actually going to have to leave the conference Sat around noon because of flight connections :-( It stinks, I know, but my real job pays for my fun job (playing with Rev). On Mar 14, 2008, at 4:05 PM, jbv wrote: Marian Petrides, MD a *crit : Now, I'm planning on attending the full conference + pre conference and what about post - conference ? sorry... couldn't resist... JB ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Learn Programming in 1 Day
Richmond, Learn Programming in 1 Day really? Really. The Day One Pass previously offered just to people who purchased the RevSelect bundle is now available to everyone. People who attend will begin with a blank slate and by the end of the day will produce a fully operational standalone application that works on Mac, Windows, and Linux. The courses build on each other and follow a progression: - Revolution fundamentals - Important scripting concepts - Manipulating text and data - Working with the file system - Orchestrating multimedia content - Exchanging data over the Internet - Lightning-fast database processing - Migrating from HyperCard - Building a standalone executable Not only that, but those who order before March 31 will receive a free copy of the conference DVD, which contains all the sessions from the conference, all the sample stacks, etc. (It does not include the non-disclosure day, though.) In other words, you'll get an intensive day of instruction presented by the best and brightest people in the community (people who have been helping out on this list for YEARS). As the mailer states, this is a great opportunity to achieve liftoff for programming. Because not only do you get the in-person training, but you also get a DVD you can take home and review what you learned on that day... PLUS ALL THE OTHER SESSIONS held during the conference. That's an incredible amount of content... a great value. Anyone who is interested in better comprehension of Revolution will benefit immensley. As stated by others, learning is not mastery -- if there is such a thing. Learning hopefully is a lifelong process. We don't promise that you will be able to single-handedly build an Office Suite at the end of the day. We do promise that you will acquire the experience you need to begin using Revolution effectively. I think the content of the mailer elaborates on this clearly. To the extent the subject line of the email is slightly provocative/controversial and got people to open it to learn more, I'm not apologetic. :) Having said that, I also think it's accurate and if what you're doing there is not learning I don't know what is! - Bill ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
