Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Thomas McGrath III]

Sorry, wrong list.

Regards,

Tom McGrath III
Lazy River Software
http://lazyriver.on-rev.com
3mcgr...@comcast.net

I Can Speak - Communication for the rest of us...
http://mypad.lazyriver.on-rev.com

I Can Speak on the iPad Store
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/i-can-speak/id364733279?mt=8

DeMoted - Have you DeMoted Someone today?
http://demoted.lazyriver.on-rev.com

DeMoted on the iTune App Store
http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/demoted/id355925236?mt=8

On May 4, 2010, at 1:40 PM, Randall Reetz wrote:

> Thomas McGrath sent the following to me.  Anyone know what it means or is 
> supposed to do?
> 
> Randall
> 
> On May 2, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
> 
>> [...]
>> NSString *documentsDirectory = [paths objectAtIndex:0];
>> 
>> while(!madeNewPath) {
>> imgPath = [documentsDirectory stringByAppendingPathComponent:[NSString 
>> stringWithFormat:@"WhatThe%i.jpg",x]];
>> if([[NSFileManager defaultManager] fileExistsAtPath:imgPath]) x++; else 
>> madeNewPath = TRUE;
>> }
>> [...]
>> 
>> restoredImg = [UIImage imageWithData:[NSData 
>> dataWithContentsOfFile:imgPath]];
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On May 2, 2010, at 10:17 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:
>> 
>>> Randall,
>>> 
>>> Like most people, I'm neither Galileo nor the Church.  I sign my real name 
>>> to my posts, and I asked you a real question hoping for a real answer... a 
>>> simple, honest question about your vision for computing, to which you have 
>>> no answer, only more masturbatory rhetoric, and the same name calling and 
>>> juvenile inferences that only a few posts ago you so decried when it came 
>>> your way.  So, unless you wish to become honest and stop hiding inside your 
>>> linguistic psychedelics, I give up.  I'm not sure at this point that you'd 
>>> recognize truth or honesty if it hit you upside the head with a 
>>> two-by-four. 
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> On May 2, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>>> 
>>>> Sad.  Truth matters in all affairs.  Good people can see through lies and 
>>>> purposeful deceit.  History will judge.  Are you galileo or the church?
>>>> 
>>>> -Original Message-
>>>> From: Mark Swindell 
>>>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:45 PM
>>>> To: How to use Revolution 
>>>> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
>>>> 
>>>> I can answer the question of your vision myself?  I asked you to share 
>>>> your vision, in simplest terms, without ambiguity, through a few examples. 
>>>>  Instead you answer with more obfuscation.  I can only think, after a 
>>>> certain point, that you don't really have a vision what you're after.  And 
>>>> don't say I didn't ask or that I'm in need of a teacher to tell me what to 
>>>> think or how to behave.  SImple questions deserve simple answers.
>>>> 
>>>> Mark
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>> You can answer that question your self easly enough.  Close your eyes, 
>>>>> imagine evolution doing what evolution does.  Where will complexity 
>>>>> handling systems be in 10, 20, 100 years?  The whole notion of sitting 
>>>>> down at a computer is hopelessly old-school.  The better question really 
>>>>> is "what is it that systems want?  Any systems.  Humans are a system.  Is 
>>>>> it the shovel we are after, or is it the ditch, is it water we want or 
>>>>> the fruit it grows, is it the fruit or the energy we receive, is it the 
>>>>> energy or is it the use we put that energy towards, what are these uses, 
>>>>> what drives us towards them, where is it all headed?  Is any of this 
>>>>> something that is best embodied in a spread sheet or a web page or a 
>>>>> slide show?  aren't these notions simply the result of the limitations 
>>>>> our imaginations place upon the future as a result of historical 
>>>>> experience?  The real question becomes, what do you want out of life? 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> [The entire original message is not included]
>>>> ___
>>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>>> subscription preferen

Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Jim Kanter]

It's an example of what you'll need to know if you want to program for
the iPad and iPhone if SJ has his way.

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 3:34 PM,   wrote:
> On 05/04/2010 at 03:23 PM, Randall Reetz  wrote:
>> Thomas McGrath sent the following to me.  Anyone know what it means or is
> supposed to do?
>>
>> Randall
>>
>> On May 2, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>>
>>> [...]
>>> NSString *documentsDirectory = [paths objectAtIndex:0];
>>>
>>> while(!madeNewPath) {
>>> imgPath = [documentsDirectory stringByAppendingPathComponent:[NSString
> stringWithFormat:@"WhatThe%i.jpg",x]];
>>> if([[NSFileManager defaultManager] fileExistsAtPath:imgPath]) x++; else
> madeNewPath = TRUE;
>>> }
>>> [...]
>>>
>>> restoredImg = [UIImage imageWithData:[NSData
> dataWithContentsOfFile:imgPath]];
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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Well that isn't exactly how it works, but evolution does have a way of pointing 
in a very specific direction (statistically).

-Original Message-
From: roger.e.el...@sealedair.com
Sent: Tuesday, May 04, 2010 12:34 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

On 05/04/2010 at 03:23 PM, Randall Reetz  wrote:
> Thomas McGrath sent the following to me.  Anyone know what it means or is
supposed to do?
>
> Randall
>
> On May 2, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> NSString *documentsDirectory = [paths objectAtIndex:0];
>>
>> while(!madeNewPath) {
>> imgPath = [documentsDirectory stringByAppendingPathComponent:[NSString
stringWithFormat:@"WhatThe%i.jpg",x]];
>> if([[NSFileManager defaultManager] fileExistsAtPath:imgPath]) x++; else
madeNewPath = TRUE;
>> }
>> [...]
>>
>> restoredImg = [UIImage imageWithData:[NSData
dataWithContentsOfFile:imgPath]];
>>
>>

It is message sent back from the future. Once you execute it, it will learn
what you want and will just do it. ;)

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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Roger . E . Eller]

On 05/04/2010 at 03:23 PM, Randall Reetz  wrote:
> Thomas McGrath sent the following to me.  Anyone know what it means or is
supposed to do?
>
> Randall
>
> On May 2, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:
>
>> [...]
>> NSString *documentsDirectory = [paths objectAtIndex:0];
>>
>> while(!madeNewPath) {
>> imgPath = [documentsDirectory stringByAppendingPathComponent:[NSString
stringWithFormat:@"WhatThe%i.jpg",x]];
>> if([[NSFileManager defaultManager] fileExistsAtPath:imgPath]) x++; else
madeNewPath = TRUE;
>> }
>> [...]
>>
>> restoredImg = [UIImage imageWithData:[NSData
dataWithContentsOfFile:imgPath]];
>>
>>

It is message sent back from the future. Once you execute it, it will learn
what you want and will just do it. ;)

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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Reetz]

Thomas McGrath sent the following to me.  Anyone know what it means or is 
supposed to do?

Randall

On May 2, 2010, at 7:47 PM, Thomas McGrath III wrote:

> [...]
> NSString *documentsDirectory = [paths objectAtIndex:0];
> 
> while(!madeNewPath) {
> imgPath = [documentsDirectory stringByAppendingPathComponent:[NSString 
> stringWithFormat:@"WhatThe%i.jpg",x]];
> if([[NSFileManager defaultManager] fileExistsAtPath:imgPath]) x++; else 
> madeNewPath = TRUE;
> }
> [...]
> 
> restoredImg = [UIImage imageWithData:[NSData dataWithContentsOfFile:imgPath]];
> 
> 
> 
> On May 2, 2010, at 10:17 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:
> 
>> Randall,
>> 
>> Like most people, I'm neither Galileo nor the Church.  I sign my real name 
>> to my posts, and I asked you a real question hoping for a real answer... a 
>> simple, honest question about your vision for computing, to which you have 
>> no answer, only more masturbatory rhetoric, and the same name calling and 
>> juvenile inferences that only a few posts ago you so decried when it came 
>> your way.  So, unless you wish to become honest and stop hiding inside your 
>> linguistic psychedelics, I give up.  I'm not sure at this point that you'd 
>> recognize truth or honesty if it hit you upside the head with a two-by-four. 
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> On May 2, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>> 
>>> Sad.  Truth matters in all affairs.  Good people can see through lies and 
>>> purposeful deceit.  History will judge.  Are you galileo or the church?
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Mark Swindell 
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:45 PM
>>> To: How to use Revolution 
>>> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
>>> 
>>> I can answer the question of your vision myself?  I asked you to share your 
>>> vision, in simplest terms, without ambiguity, through a few examples.  
>>> Instead you answer with more obfuscation.  I can only think, after a 
>>> certain point, that you don't really have a vision what you're after.  And 
>>> don't say I didn't ask or that I'm in need of a teacher to tell me what to 
>>> think or how to behave.  SImple questions deserve simple answers.
>>> 
>>> Mark
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>>> 
>>>> You can answer that question your self easly enough.  Close your eyes, 
>>>> imagine evolution doing what evolution does.  Where will complexity 
>>>> handling systems be in 10, 20, 100 years?  The whole notion of sitting 
>>>> down at a computer is hopelessly old-school.  The better question really 
>>>> is "what is it that systems want?  Any systems.  Humans are a system.  Is 
>>>> it the shovel we are after, or is it the ditch, is it water we want or the 
>>>> fruit it grows, is it the fruit or the energy we receive, is it the energy 
>>>> or is it the use we put that energy towards, what are these uses, what 
>>>> drives us towards them, where is it all headed?  Is any of this something 
>>>> that is best embodied in a spread sheet or a web page or a slide show?  
>>>> aren't these notions simply the result of the limitations our imaginations 
>>>> place upon the future as a result of historical experience?  The real 
>>>> question becomes, what do you want out of life? 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> [The entire original message is not included]
>>> ___
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your 
>>> subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Richmond Mathewson]

 On 04/05/2010 19:44, René Micout wrote:

I have also a SE30, II FX and all my portables (Mac Portable, PB170, PB9400, PB G3 
(black), PB Titanium, PB G4 12")
All the others have been recycled... snif... :-(
I only keep the Mac on which I worked

Le 4 mai 2010 à 18:35, stephen barncard a écrit :


I still have my working SE-30, which still has big screen capability,
10Base-T Ethernet, and an accelerator.  Last use was to be an SMTP and FTP
server - worked well.

I'm keeping that unit, but am giving my other Mac history items away - any
luddites in SF call me before they become e-waste. I have an 9600,  8100,
and 7100, a cube, and an iMac.
 Most of my computers are stored in the attic of my house in Scotland, 
so I only

get to see them about every 2 years; however it is always a pleasure to find
that my 5260CD is still quite a good machine for basic WP and internet 
stuff when

I am over there and using dial-up via modem for a couple of weeks. I can see
no reason to get rid of them; love working with RunRev 1.1.1 on system 8.1;
makes me realise how far we have all come since then; yet, in some respects,
the whole experience was a lot cleaner then.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Jerry Daniels]

Marty, ironic profession and specialty for your client to have given the 
context of this thread (more like a rug than a thread)!

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off:
http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch

On May 4, 2010, at 11:55 AM, Marty Knapp  wrote:

> I have a client that sometimes works for lawyers as an expert witness doing 
> economic loss analysis. I think he charges $300 an hour. And he does all his 
> calculations on a 1985 SE/30 running Excel 2.0. I put its second hard drive 
> in about 5 years ago and recently swapped out the motherboard as it was 
> starting to act a little flaky. Not bad for a 25 year old computer.
> 
> Marty Knapp
>> I still have my working SE-30, which still has big screen capability,
>> 10Base-T Ethernet, and an accelerator.  Last use was to be an SMTP and FTP
>> server - worked well.
>> 
>> I'm keeping that unit, but am giving my other Mac history items away - any
>> luddites in SF call me before they become e-waste. I have an 9600,  8100,
>> and 7100, a cube, and an iMac.
>> 
>> 
>>  
> 
> ___
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> preferences:
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Marty Knapp]

I have a client that sometimes works for lawyers as an expert witness 
doing economic loss analysis. I think he charges $300 an hour. And he 
does all his calculations on a 1985 SE/30 running Excel 2.0. I put its 
second hard drive in about 5 years ago and recently swapped out the 
motherboard as it was starting to act a little flaky. Not bad for a 25 
year old computer.


Marty Knapp

I still have my working SE-30, which still has big screen capability,
10Base-T Ethernet, and an accelerator.  Last use was to be an SMTP and FTP
server - worked well.

I'm keeping that unit, but am giving my other Mac history items away - any
luddites in SF call me before they become e-waste. I have an 9600,  8100,
and 7100, a cube, and an iMac.


  


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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[René Micout]

I have also a SE30, II FX and all my portables (Mac Portable, PB170, PB9400, PB 
G3 (black), PB Titanium, PB G4 12")
All the others have been recycled... snif... :-(
I only keep the Mac on which I worked

Le 4 mai 2010 à 18:35, stephen barncard a écrit :

> I still have my working SE-30, which still has big screen capability,
> 10Base-T Ethernet, and an accelerator.  Last use was to be an SMTP and FTP
> server - worked well.
> 
> I'm keeping that unit, but am giving my other Mac history items away - any
> luddites in SF call me before they become e-waste. I have an 9600,  8100,
> and 7100, a cube, and an iMac.

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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[stephen barncard]

I still have my working SE-30, which still has big screen capability,
10Base-T Ethernet, and an accelerator.  Last use was to be an SMTP and FTP
server - worked well.

I'm keeping that unit, but am giving my other Mac history items away - any
luddites in SF call me before they become e-waste. I have an 9600,  8100,
and 7100, a cube, and an iMac.


On 4 May 2010 02:53, René Micout  wrote:

> Definitively incomparable : IT IS TRUE !! How can one not be fetish after
> that ?
> The serial number of my first Mac 128 K is  F5Ø128RM0001WP :
> The first number of "my initials" series...
>
> Le 4 mai 2010 à 11:41, Kay C Lan a écrit :
>
> > On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:10 PM, René Micout  >wrote:
> >
> >> Perhaps I am a morbid aesthetic and perhaps a morbid fetish > I have my
> >> first 128 K Macintosh (1984) on a shelf above my new iMac (2009) !! ;-)
> >>
> >>
> >> I'm definitely jealous. Mine was a 512K Enhanced. Long since given away.
> > But each month I get to revel in OS 7.6.1 when I crank up the old Centris
> > 650 + Laserwriter Select 300.
> > ___
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your
> subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>
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> subscription preferences:
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>



-- 
-
Stephen Barncard
Back home in SF
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Jerry Daniels]

No you're not.

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off:
http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch

On May 4, 2010, at 3:28 AM, Sarah Reichelt  wrote:

>> The point of it all, is for someone like Jon to call Apple, "Appholes,"
>> clearly shows there IS a problem.
> 
> Am I the only one who has a problem with Jon Stewart tacitly condoning theft?
> 
> Regards,
> Sarah
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Richard Gaskin]

Sarah Reichelt wrote:


The point of it all, is for someone like Jon to call Apple, "Appholes,"
clearly shows there IS a problem.


Am I the only one who has a problem with Jon Stewart tacitly condoning theft?


Maybe I'm too much of a Daily Show fan, but I didn't get that from the 
piece.   It seemed to me he wasn't so much saying Gizmodo was right as 
he was questioning the need for the strongest possible response to it.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[René Micout]

Definitively incomparable : IT IS TRUE !! How can one not be fetish after that ?
The serial number of my first Mac 128 K is  F5Ø128RM0001WP :
The first number of "my initials" series...

Le 4 mai 2010 à 11:41, Kay C Lan a écrit :

> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:10 PM, René Micout 
> wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps I am a morbid aesthetic and perhaps a morbid fetish > I have my
>> first 128 K Macintosh (1984) on a shelf above my new iMac (2009) !! ;-)
>> 
>> 
>> I'm definitely jealous. Mine was a 512K Enhanced. Long since given away.
> But each month I get to revel in OS 7.6.1 when I crank up the old Centris
> 650 + Laserwriter Select 300.
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Chipp Walters]

Sorry for the double post. I tried first posting on my iPad, but the
gMail client is still pretty flaky, and for some unknown reason, the
Use-List keep rejecting any posts from the iPad's mail client.

Steve's still got a few things to work out on this iPad. I ended up
finally going downstairs and posting on my PC.

On Tuesday, May 4, 2010, Kay C Lan  wrote:

>>
>> Wow, stereophonic reply. Certainly had me scratching my head there for a
> sec.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[René Micout]

Le 4 mai 2010 à 11:41, Kay C Lan a écrit :

> On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:10 PM, René Micout 
> wrote:
> 
>> Perhaps I am a morbid aesthetic and perhaps a morbid fetish > I have my
>> first 128 K Macintosh (1984) on a shelf above my new iMac (2009) !! ;-)
>> 
>> 
>> I'm definitely jealous. Mine was a 512K Enhanced. Long since given away.
> But each month I get to revel in OS 7.6.1 when I crank up the old Centris
> 650 + Laserwriter Select 300.
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Kay C Lan]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 5:10 PM, René Micout wrote:

> Perhaps I am a morbid aesthetic and perhaps a morbid fetish > I have my
> first 128 K Macintosh (1984) on a shelf above my new iMac (2009) !! ;-)
>
>
> I'm definitely jealous. Mine was a 512K Enhanced. Long since given away.
But each month I get to revel in OS 7.6.1 when I crank up the old Centris
650 + Laserwriter Select 300.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[René Micout]

Precision : read this in the article :

"Apple could try to head off trouble with antitrust enforcers by changing the 
terms of its developer agreement, one person familiar with the situation said."

Le 4 mai 2010 à 11:17, René Micout a écrit :

> Are things changing ?
> 
> http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703612804575222553091495816.html?mod=WSJEUROPE_hpp_LEFTTopWhatNews
> 
> René___
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[René Micout]

Are things changing ?

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703612804575222553091495816.html?mod=WSJEUROPE_hpp_LEFTTopWhatNews

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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Kay C Lan]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 4:27 PM, Chipp Walters  wrote:

>
> The whole point of this is, if someone like Jon Stewart calls Apple,
> "Appholes," then things must be pretty bad.
>
> Wow, stereophonic reply. Certainly had me scratching my head there for a
sec.

Thanks for the pointer on Jon Stewart, personally had no clue who he was.

Your comments on 'trades in the same hipness currency' is extremely valid.
If anything will hurt Apple, certainly their hipness rating going down will
effect the bottom line.

Unfortunately there are at least two ways for hipness rating to go down.
First is to become the in joke. The second is to make mediocre products. The
first will be short lived if you continue to make 1st class products as
discerning consumer will continue to recognise the product for what it is;
the joke will fade. The second is inescapable if you continue to make
mediocre products.

Maybe I do consider Steve a rock star, because I generally like the music he
plays ;-) But you are right, he's produced some flops. I've stated already
that I'd have thought there would have been a more middle ground solution,
but then I don't know all the facts - none of us do. I do know that I like
the level of perfection Steve requires of his products. If, through
bureaucratic intervention, Steve is forced to allow mediocrity, then
regardless of what Jon Steward might joke about, the hipness factor will be
permanently effected.

I'd much rather see this resolved my market forces, rather than bureaucratic
intervention, and I fully accept that Jon Stewart is part of market forces.

I guess I don't understand why people feel that they should be free to
dictate how Steve Jobs runs his company, yet Steve isn't free to dictate
what standards are to be met to make the grade.

PS. I do appreciate that it is extremely unlikely that Apple will be forced
to pass every App ever submitted, no matter how stick man, kill barney, it
might be.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[René Micout]

Le 4 mai 2010 à 10:27, Kay C Lan a écrit :


> that's why they refer to it as an
> iPhad - a pun on the word fad, meaning - like yoyo fad, or a rubic's cube
> fad.

Thank you for this explanation, because I was a little lost with this 
non-translatable word ! (I believe that was a type or spelling mistake !)

> If they are fools, then so am I ;-)

Perhaps I am a morbid aesthetic and perhaps a morbid fetish > I have my first 
128 K Macintosh (1984) on a shelf above my new iMac (2009) !! ;-)

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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Sarah Reichelt]

> The point of it all, is for someone like Jon to call Apple, "Appholes,"
> clearly shows there IS a problem.

Am I the only one who has a problem with Jon Stewart tacitly condoning theft?

Regards,
Sarah
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Chipp Walters]

Kay,

It sounds like the part you are missing in all of this is who Jon
Stewart is and what he represents. He is seen by many as the single
most powerful Progressive voice in the media. His calling out of Apple
and Jobs in particular, has huge ramifications, of which I am sure
concerns many inside Apple. Jon trades in the same "hipness" currency
as Apple and BMW's.

You seem to confuse Jobs with a rock star, which is understandable.
Many faithful Apple followers are so enamored. The fact is, he's a
man. He makes big mistakes, and has huge wins. NeXT was a mistake, so
was not wanting to create a Mac II. And most here think he was
ingenuous when he lied about and and eventually killed Hypercard.
iPods were a huge win as was MacOS X. PowerPC, while starting on an up
note, ended up not so hot. The list goes on. The guy is, without a
doubt, a marketing genius. Still doesn't make him infallible.

Just because someone like Stewart calls him out, doesn't mean he's
jealous. Far from it. Jon points out how big a fan he is and has been
of Apple, but also points out some of the errors Apple is making these
days. In fact at the end of the segment, even Jon recognizes how this
might roll with his audience saying something about it being easier on
his fans to show pictures of Muhammed in a bikini versus talk bad
about Jobs. So, clearly he's a Steve Jobs fan.

The whole point of this is, if someone like Jon Stewart calls Apple,
"Appholes," then things must be pretty bad.

On Monday, May 3, 2010, Kay C Lan  wrote:
> Whilst many may deify Michael Schumacher, Roger Federer, Tiger Woods, Lee
> Kwan Yew, Valentino Rossi, Lance Armstrong, Michael Phelps, Mozart, Leonardo
> da Vinci and even Bill Gates and Steve Jobs; there are also those who are
> deeply critical of them - most likely due to some deep-seeded jealousy.

> What that video confirmed to me, is no matter how much vitriol, hatred and
> disgust the presenter heaped upon Steve Jobs, no matter how logical or
> factual the arguments, no matter how enthusiastically the audience agreed
> with everything he said; for reasons I can not explain and certainly do not
> understand, in the dying seconds the presented admitted his lust for the
> next Apple product.

> All I can conclude is, if one with such a wholly justifiable aversion to
> Steve's latest antics will still so obviously go on buying Apple products,
> then how much more so the sheep-like general consumer.
> [yourname here] + Apple + Flash, I should have asked, if you had $1M to
> invest right now, and could only invest in Apple or Adobe, who would you
> pick?
> PS Apple just announced it has sold 1 million iPads in 28 days
> PPS It took Apple almost 3 months to sell 1 million iPhones
> PPS  Apple announces best non-holiday quarter ever, with revenues up 49
> percent and profits up 90 percent
> PPPS Adobe stock dropped 2% after Steve Jobs' Thoughts on Flash
> S Adobe drop iPhone as corporate phone
> PS Adobe stock takes further hit after Microsoft announce IE9 will not
> support Flash [movies]
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Kay C Lan]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 4:05 PM, René Micout wrote:

>
> I understand, I'm an idiot. Maybe, because when you're a fool you are often
> the last to realize. I had many Macintosh since 1984.
>
> No you're not, but then again maybe we both are. I too have owned many
Macs, but only since '87, but all my brothers tell me I'm a fool ;-)

I was speaking more generally, that IMO, the vast majority of current
iPhone, iPad buyers do not do it because they've assessed their needs and
looked at all the options and weighed the pro's and con's, but simply buy
them because they 'are in', 'cool', 'hip', that's why they refer to it as an
iPhad - a pun on the word fad, meaning - like yoyo fad, or a rubic's cube
fad.

Personally I don't think there are any fools on this List. The fact that
they've arrived at this List suggest they've plowed through very many
options, appreciate that there is more than one operating system out there,
weighed the pro's and con's, and have concluded Rev is worthy tool for their
toolbox. If they are fools, then so am I ;-)
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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Ok, maybe the ipad path is a virtual machine that runs rev stacks that are 
encapsulated within an apple compliment shell?  Rev could distribute an ipad 
runner app and or a wrapper app that sucks stacks into the iphad RevWrapper 
(with or without runner included).  Is there such a thing as app assigned 
document in the iphad gestalt?

-Original Message-
From: Randall Lee Reetz 
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 10:17 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

Really, there is no use of flash in the rev source or output?  At all?  Where 
did I get that idea?  How are rev stacks exported as executables on the iphone 
ipad platform?  If they are converted at some point to C source then it would 
be entirely possible to set up a publication service that allows rev users to 
submit stacks formatted for the "iphad" (conformed byte code) and shoot them 
through the apple blessed IDE / compiler.  No?  Am I smoking something?  Seems 
do-able.

Randall 

-Original Message-
From: Colin Holgate 
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 9:50 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

On May 4, 2010, at 12:32 AM, Randall Lee Reetz  wrote:

> I always thought it was smart that rev tied into flash.  Allowed a path onto 
> the web.  Xtalk and flash share some deep object and widget similarities.  
> But I am a bit confused as to how rev and flash are integrated.  Anyone point 
> me to a doc or web page or tube video that explains rev's flash integration?
> 
> 



Can you point to the message here that talked about Flash and Rev being 
integrated? The only connection between the two that I know of is that they are 
both victims of Apple changing the iPhone SDK agreement.


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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[René Micout]

Le 4 mai 2010 à 08:06, Kay C Lan a écrit :

> Jobs just has an uncanny, some think unnatural, ability to
> persuade enough people (not everyone, not even the majority, in some cases a
> piddling insignificant percentage) that they need to open their wallet and
> outlay a premium on a device they don't need, that has functionality they
> didn't realise they couldn't live without.

I understand, I'm an idiot. Maybe, because when you're a fool you are often the 
last to realize. I had many Macintosh since 1984. I became interested in 
computers for professional use in 1979 and before 1984 I had seen anything very 
conclusive. I still, since then earned my living in part by the Macintosh. 
Sorry for the fans of Windows but the sight of a Windows gives me hives.Am I a 
morbid aesthetic? At the exit of SuperPaint I had with ResEdit, edit icon 
(awful to my taste) of the palette to use it. Some may find this complete idiot 
but I am attached to the form, which often (not always) is an expression of the 
substance. For the application on which I work I spent several days (I'm slow, 
no doubt) to create a mini and a small slider which unfortunately do not exist 
in RunRev. I am currently working to create many interface elements "Macintosh" 
missing (the list is long, I've made) to integrate with RunRev (my first 
contribution, "Spinning Wheel" is available online from Rev). I am interested 
in the adventure of the Macintosh is not a race to the consumer (having the 
last computer with the latest processor, the latest hard disk, etc..) Is the 
style! Perhaps it is because I am also an admirer of Gustave Flaubert who is 
both one of the greatest designers of the literature and a destroyer of human 
stupidity. Like him, I see no contradiction. I would add that for Gilles 
Deleuze's philosophy and style are two bulwarks against stupidity.
Remember English is not my language (dont be too severe with it)...
Bon souvenir de Paris [ville Ô combien remplie de chose inutiles...] [Oh how 
city filled with something useless > this may be the reason why France is the 
first Macintosh market after de U.S ?!]
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Chipp Walters]

Kay,

The part you are missing in all of this is who Jon Stewart is and what he
represents. He is seen by many as the single most powerful Progressive voice
in the media. His calling out of Apple and Jobs in particular, has huge
ramifications, of which I am sure concerns many inside Apple. Jon trades in
the same "hipness" currency as Apple, GadgetBlog Writers and Privacy
Advocates.

Clearly you see Steve Jobs as a rock-star. We all need our heroes, and it's
understandable. Many Apple users are enamored with Steve. He is truly a
remarkable marketer and a one of a kind individual. Still, that does not
make him infallible. He's had big wins, and big losses.

Certainly no one could say NeXT was much of a win, nor was his refusal to
create an 'Open Mac II' which cost him his first CEO job at Apple. iPods and
iTunes were huge, as was OS X. PowerPC started big, but fizzled down the
stretch. Certainly there are many here who believe him disingenuous when he
said Hypercard wasn't dead-- then killed it.

You're concerned Jon Stewart may be jealous. Actually, the message of the
video is quite the opposite. Stewart comes out and says what a big Apple fan
he is, and has been. He even says he's taking a big risk calling Jobs out
because he knows how much his fanbase loves Apple. And that is why you don't
understand at the end of the video where he still admits to wanting Apple
products. Because he doesn't hate Apple. In fact, he really LIKES Apple.

The point of it all, is for someone like Jon to call Apple, "Appholes,"
clearly shows there IS a problem.

On Monday, May 3, 2010, Kay C Lan  wrote:
> Whilst many may deify Michael Schumacher, Roger Federer, Tiger Woods, Lee
> Kwan Yew, Valentino Rossi, Lance Armstrong, Michael Phelps, Mozart,
Leonardo
> da Vinci and even Bill Gates and Steve Jobs; there are also those who are
> deeply critical of them - most likely due to some deep-seeded jealousy.

> What that video confirmed to me, is no matter how much vitriol, hatred and
> disgust the presenter heaped upon Steve Jobs, no matter how logical or
> factual the arguments, no matter how enthusiastically the audience agreed
> with everything he said; for reasons I can not explain and certainly do
not
> understand, in the dying seconds the presented admitted his lust for the
> next Apple product.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Kay C Lan]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:20 PM, Randall Lee Reetz
wrote:

> What is the base fear or desire the iphad satisfies?  Surely apple won't
> always own the only product that will meet that need.
>
>
> Again you've hit the nail on the head. There is no base fear or desire that
the iPad satisfies. Apple has never had the only product around, in fact far
from it; there were PCs before the Mac, really cheap PCs before the iMac,
mp3 players before the iPod, mobile phones before the iPhone, and tablet PCs
before the iPad. Jobs just has an uncanny, some think unnatural, ability to
persuade enough people (not everyone, not even the majority, in some cases a
piddling insignificant percentage) that they need to open their wallet and
outlay a premium on a device they don't need, that has functionality they
didn't realise they couldn't live without.

The ranking success of a company, the effectiveness of an entrepreneur,
isn't measured by how stupid the consumer is, it's by how black the balance
sheet is.

Could Jobs make a mistake that could take Apple in to the red? Oh,
absolutely. Within 1 quarter? Definitely. Could he turn all Howard Hughes?
On the cards. Is he obnoxious? Undoudtedly. But IMO this current turmoil
will not decline Apple's quarterly revenue, much less have a long term
effect on their profitability.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 2 mai 2010 à 23:39, Randall Reetz a écrit :

> Semantics opens the door to the building of systems that "understand" the 
> content they process.  That is the promised second revolution in computation 
> that really hasn't seen any practical light of day as of yet.  Data mining 
> really isn't semantically mindful, simply uses statistical reduction 
> mechanisms to guess at the existence of the location of pattern ( a good 
> first step but missing the grammatical hierarchy necessary to work towards a 
> self optimized and domain independent ability to detect and represent 
> salience in the stacked grammar that makes up any complex system.
> 
> Such systems will need to work all of the time.  ALL OF THE TIME!  Only 
> pausing momentarily to pay attention to our interactions as needed.  Once 
> they are running, these systems will subsume all of the manual activity we 
> have been made to perform to this day.  Think "fly by wire" for processing.  
> Gone is the need to discreetly encode every single bit in exactly the only 
> possible sequence.  We simply wont be able to know what bits are being 
> processed, who or what made them, and more importantly, we won't have to care.

Clearly, the key way to 21st century's computing tasks. Thanks for this, 
Randall. Hope it will almost be read as an important contrib and gift... to 
common mind ;-)

Best Regards,
--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Yes, but greed has many faces.  What people are greedy for is different than 
what they end up buying.  This is do to the fact that the market never serves 
up the perfect product.  People can only express their greed for products that 
exist.  The one that most closely satisfies the deep inner needs of humans is 
the one that wins in the marketplace.  People will pay 30k every 6 years for 
freedom over geographic distance (a car).  400k for freedom over atmospheric 
discomfort and public exposure (a house).  What is the base fear or desire the 
iphad satisfies?  Surely apple won't always own the only product that will meet 
that need.

-Original Message-
From: Kay C Lan 
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 10:00 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 12:47 AM, Randall Lee Reetz  wrote:

>
> As for jobs.  He is great at finding the greed in consumers.
>

Ah thank you, thats what I was trying to say. Compared to anyone on this
List, Jobs is much greater at finding the greed in consumers. Regardless of
the mistakes he makes  he makes along the way, the consumer will continue to
vote with their wallet. You know it, I know it, and everyone on the List
knows it.
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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Really, there is no use of flash in the rev source or output?  At all?  Where 
did I get that idea?  How are rev stacks exported as executables on the iphone 
ipad platform?  If they are converted at some point to C source then it would 
be entirely possible to set up a publication service that allows rev users to 
submit stacks formatted for the "iphad" (conformed byte code) and shoot them 
through the apple blessed IDE / compiler.  No?  Am I smoking something?  Seems 
do-able.

Randall 

-Original Message-
From: Colin Holgate 
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 9:50 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

On May 4, 2010, at 12:32 AM, Randall Lee Reetz  wrote:

> I always thought it was smart that rev tied into flash.  Allowed a path onto 
> the web.  Xtalk and flash share some deep object and widget similarities.  
> But I am a bit confused as to how rev and flash are integrated.  Anyone point 
> me to a doc or web page or tube video that explains rev's flash integration?
> 
> 



Can you point to the message here that talked about Flash and Rev being 
integrated? The only connection between the two that I know of is that they are 
both victims of Apple changing the iPhone SDK agreement.


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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Scott Rossi]

> I always thought it was smart that rev tied into flash.  Allowed a path onto
> the web.

Perhaps you mean QuickTime.  The only connection Rev ever had to Flash was
through QT, which allowed basic playback of SWF files, but that was dropped
around the release of v6 of QT.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design


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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Kay C Lan]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 12:47 AM, Randall Lee Reetz  wrote:

>
> As for jobs.  He is great at finding the greed in consumers.
>

Ah thank you, thats what I was trying to say. Compared to anyone on this
List, Jobs is much greater at finding the greed in consumers. Regardless of
the mistakes he makes  he makes along the way, the consumer will continue to
vote with their wallet. You know it, I know it, and everyone on the List
knows it.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Colin Holgate]

On May 4, 2010, at 12:45 AM, Kay C Lan  wrote:

> PS Adobe stock takes further hit after Microsoft announce IE9 will not
> support Flash [movies]


To correct this again, no version of any browser has ever supported Flash 
movies (meaning Sorenson Spark or On2 VP6 video). As Microsoft posted today, 
IE9 will continue to support plugins such as Flash and Silverlight, and the 
Flash plugin will continue to be able to play the older Flash video files.



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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Colin Holgate]

On May 4, 2010, at 12:32 AM, Randall Lee Reetz  wrote:

> I always thought it was smart that rev tied into flash.  Allowed a path onto 
> the web.  Xtalk and flash share some deep object and widget similarities.  
> But I am a bit confused as to how rev and flash are integrated.  Anyone point 
> me to a doc or web page or tube video that explains rev's flash integration?
> 
> 



Can you point to the message here that talked about Flash and Rev being 
integrated? The only connection between the two that I know of is that they are 
both victims of Apple changing the iPhone SDK agreement.


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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Kay C Lan]

On Tue, May 4, 2010 at 1:32 AM, Chipp Walters  wrote:

>
>
>  http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Jsa7su-jI&feature=youtube_gdata


Thanks Chipp for the link, and excellent video which I think nicely sums up
exactly what I've been trying to say, but my English seems incapable of
doing.

Whilst many may deify Michael Schumacher, Roger Federer, Tiger Woods, Lee
Kwan Yew, Valentino Rossi, Lance Armstrong, Michael Phelps, Mozart, Leonardo
da Vinci and even Bill Gates and Steve Jobs; there are also those who are
deeply critical of them - most likely due to some deep-seeded jealousy.

I on the other hand appreciate that they are just mere mortals, inescapably
capable of making mistakes, errors and wrong choices. Do those errors,
misjudgement or mistakes define a person and destine them to forever
failure. Will Tiger Woods never win another Masters because of his numerous
indescretions; I think not. I try to look at track record, and assess
overall long-term performance.

What that video confirmed to me, is no matter how much vitriol, hatred and
disgust the presenter heaped upon Steve Jobs, no matter how logical or
factual the arguments, no matter how enthusiastically the audience agreed
with everything he said; for reasons I can not explain and certainly do not
understand, in the dying seconds the presented admitted his lust for the
next Apple product.

All I can conclude is, if one with such a wholly justifiable aversion to
Steve's latest antics will still so obviously go on buying Apple products,
then how much more so the sheep-like general consumer.

I thought I'd effectively communicated that this isn't really about right or
wrong decisions by Steve Jobs, nor is it about whether you and all the other
critics are, most likely, correct about this single decision. This is simply
about what will the buying public do due to this decision. Maybe instead of
asking who do you think will make more money Steve + Apple - Flash or
[yourname here] + Apple + Flash, I should have asked, if you had $1M to
invest right now, and could only invest in Apple or Adobe, who would you
pick?

It's sad that Capitalism has been beaten and pummelled, and so
misunderstood.

PS Apple just announced it has sold 1 million iPads in 28 days
PPS It took Apple almost 3 months to sell 1 million iPhones
PPS  Apple announces best non-holiday quarter ever, with revenues up 49
percent and profits up 90 percent
PPPS Adobe stock dropped 2% after Steve Jobs' Thoughts on Flash
S Adobe drop iPhone as corporate phone
PS Adobe stock takes further hit after Microsoft announce IE9 will not
support Flash [movies]
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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

I always thought it was smart that rev tied into flash.  Allowed a path onto 
the web.  Xtalk and flash share some deep object and widget similarities.  But 
I am a bit confused as to how rev and flash are integrated.  Anyone point me to 
a doc or web page or tube video that explains rev's flash integration?

-Original Message-
From: Colin Holgate 
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 10:52 AM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue


On May 3, 2010, at 1:32 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Jsa7su-jI&feature=youtube_gdata


Here's the good quality version for US viewers:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-april-28-2010/appholes


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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Computers that process meaning won't "work all day to make the world a better 
place" any more or less than we (or anything else) do.  But systems that know 
about the things they process have a substantial leg up on systems that don't.  
This isn't a complex concept.  The execution of the design of such a system or 
its starting point is on the other hand very complex.  If you are demanding 
that I show you how to build a moon rocket out of farm equipment before you 
will talk about going into space, then sorry buddy, you are simply and 
obviously only interested in avoiding the topic and or slandering my person.  

-Original Message-
From: Mark Swindell 
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:11 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

Maybe, but I suspect Randall has some ideas that I'd really like to hear about. 
 For the life of me, I have a hard time deciphering what they are.  But I'd 
like to hear about them, in simplest terms, without ambiguity.

Mark


On May 2, 2010, at 4:07 PM, Michael Kann wrote:

> As I read what Randall proposes, you won't "sit down at a computer." The 
> computer will have enough knowledge of the world to work full-time making the 
> world a better place. Every so often it will sit down with a human to explain 
> what it has discovered and what the human can do to help. 
> 
> 
> --- On Sun, 5/2/10, Mark Swindell  wrote:
> 
>> From: Mark Swindell 
>> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
>> To: "How to use Revolution" 
>> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 5:58 PM
>> Randall,
>> 
>> What do you want to see software do?  Please be



[The entire original message is not included]
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Peter Alcibiades]

"But I can say this: If you want to get involved in single language
development for Mac, iPhone, iPad and whatever comes next, now would be a
good time to get tRev, a Mac and an iPad if you don't already have them.
tRev Mac users will get first access to these new tools to which I now only
allude."

That's really nice for others, but what I want to get involved in is single
language development for Linux, and maybe Windows too.  

Not Mac, not iPhone, not iPad.  Now that is what the promise of Rev was,
develop on Linux, and if you want, compile for Windows too, but I think it
may face choices that mean it can't be both that, and single language
development for Apple stuff along the lines you speak of, at the same time.

We are coming to a fork in the road.

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Apples-actual-response-to-the-Flash-issue-tp2075668p2124595.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[David Bovill]

OK - I went out and bought a tRev license and wait expectantly.

On 3 May 2010 16:28, Jerry Daniels  wrote:

>
> But I can say this: If you want to get involved in single language
> development for Mac, iPhone, iPad and whatever comes next, now would be a
> good time to get tRev, a Mac and an iPad if you don't already have them.
> tRev Mac users will get first access to these new tools to which I now only
> allude.
>
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[David Bovill]

On 2 May 2010 21:24, Randall Reetz  wrote:

> Is this the topic?  Really?  All you can come up with?  Nasty childish
> nitpicking?  Yes emailing is dangerous while driving.  I wrote that note at
> a gas station while filling my tank.
>

I'd be careful replying to emails from a gas station in the middle of a
flame-war ?
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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Chipp Walters]

Jerry,

Guess there's not much I agree with you on this one. I suspect if you
ask Richard Gaskin or other developers if their customers really care
if their program is Carbon or Cocoa you'll just get a blank stare--
but I'm sure they all agree it works great for them. And Richard has
an excellent article on why cross platform dev environments actually
HELP Apple at:
http://www.revjournal.com/blog.irv

So, I would contend Apple shouldn't care what tools developers use to
write for the Mac. But, if I'm wrong and you're right, then we all
should start learning Xcode right now, because it's only a matter of
time before Apple shuts itself off to any other development platform.
No more "the computer for the rest of us."

And you say,
"So...is the Apple lock-down just? For justice we must go to Don
Corleone, and he does not exist. So time to forget that and the karma
you think Apple deserves for being evil."

Wow, where to start? Certainly you aren't saying evil unabated by some
regulation isn't evil? I hope not. Even so, there are strong rumors
that Don Corleone does exist in the form of our own Justice
department:

http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2010/05/03/daily18.html



On Monday, May 3, 2010, Jerry Daniels  wrote:
> I actually believe Apple HOPED the iPad and their overall initiative to 
> reinvent computing would be a huge success. But I think they had concerns 
> regarding how quickly it would sell beyond the Apple faithful...especially 
> the reinvent computing part. Apple initially under-built the iPad in terms of 
> units produced. That's why I say that.
>
> But this list is about Revolution.
>
> This post is about the Apple mobile platform lock-down as it affects Rev 
> developers. If were Apple, I would have difficulty viewing Revolution as a 
> good partner with whom to reinvent computing. Rev for the Mac does not take 
> advantage of Cocoa and DOES seek to common-denominate.
>
> Rev may have plans to change all that with a new IDE, etc, but the field 
> object is still incapable of independently aligned, chunk-addressable columns 
> in spite of user demand and outrage for years. So color me skeptical and 
> Apple even more so as regards Rev keeping up with the times.
>
> On the other hand, Revolution may regard Apple as a bad business partner for 
> changing the rules after Rev created a splendid revMobile for the 
> iPhone/iPad. Rev may have had it with Apple. I can understand that.
>
> So...is the Apple lock-down just? For justice we must go to Don Corleone, and 
> he does not exist. So time to forget that and the karma you think Apple 
> deserves for being evil.
>
> Is the lock-down for Apple mobile devices for real? Yes.
>
> Will the lock-down spread to OS X? Nominally, no. In reality, YES. The 
> MacBook Touch (or whatever it's called) will run a locked-down variant of 
> iPad OS. It just won't have the OS X moniker.
>
> Will Revolution have to embrace the Apple approach in order to follow it? Yes.
>
> Moments like this one present huge opportunity for a small, nimble, and 
> creative company. There's a new wind blowing and Rev has the sails 
> (engineering) to catch it. The sails just need re-rigging. The wind (market 
> momentum) is there. Will they re-rig?
>
> Of this i can be certain: I will be sailing in those new waters with those 
> new winds beneath my sails (and sales). I love developing and inventing 
> tools. I love making money while I do it. I will be doing both with or 
> without Revolution as we know it today.
>
> Is the emerging Apple mobile market worth the re-tooling I will need to do?
>
> I believe so. It has tremendous momentum. For a small company, latching onto 
> a small growing market is the way to go. Also, I have to consider my own 
> experience as an iPad user.
>
> Using an iPad makes using my MacBook Pro feel almost anachronistic. I reach 
> for the screen, wait for words to spell themselves, but my Mac just sits 
> there. Using Windows OS at this point seems, I hate to say it...clunky. I 
> would never have said this before, and I say this to foreshadow, not to 
> derogate.
>
> What new development tools will I be creating for myself and others in the 
> coming weeks and months to exploit the Apple mobile platform momentum?
>
> I have been testing several concepts, and based on the proofs, have my sights 
> set on some pretty exciting stuff. New approaches that will still seem 
> familiar. I cannot say a whole lot more than that, right now.
>
> But I can say this: If you want to get involved in single language 
> development for Mac, iPhone, iPad and whatever comes next, now would be a 
> good time to get tRev, a Mac and an iPad if you don't already have them. tRev 
> Mac users will get first access to these new tools to which I now only allude.
>
> More on this in the coming week.
>
> Best,
>
> Jerry Daniels
>
> Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off:
> http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch
>
> On May 3, 2010, at 3:34 AM, Kay C L

Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Colin Holgate]

On May 3, 2010, at 1:32 PM, Chipp Walters wrote:

> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Jsa7su-jI&feature=youtube_gdata


Here's the good quality version for US viewers:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-april-28-2010/appholes


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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Jim Lambert]

JerryD wrote:
>  tRev Mac users will get first access to these new tools to which I now only 
> allude.

What a tease!
Looking forward to it.

Jim Lambert

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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Chipp Walters]

While, there is certainly nothing wrong with deifying Stevie for
yourself, please don't expect us to follow your self serving logic.
Fact is, Steve's already got himself in some hot water over his recent
draconian practices: (scroll to 1:20 and watch from there.)

 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0Jsa7su-jI&feature=youtube_gdata

On Monday, May 3, 2010, Kay C Lan  wrote:
> Ah, been gone for a couple of hours and come back to exactly what I
> expected. Not a single List member nominated another List member as being
> more capable of running Apple than Steve Jobs.
>
> And not for want of campaigning. Some very spirited and some rather long
> posts clearly trying to persuade the masses to vote their way, but in the
> end not a single mind was changed, not a single prejudice altered - although
> I much enjoyed the Electrical Engineers manifesto ;-)
>
> So what it all boils down to is, some of us think Steve is wrong, and some
> of us think that Steve is right, but regardless of whether he's right or
> wrong, ALL of us know, deep down inside, no matter how much it pains us,
> that Steve + Apple - Flash will make a whole heap more money than [your name
> here] + Apple + Flash. And everyone on the List agrees ;-)
>
> And the sediment left in the bottom is actually the pile of all our own
> prejudices,  failings, misgivings, inadequacies, lack of vision and lack of
> confidence.
>
> I, and I know others on this List, don't see the point of an iPad. If I were
> running Apple it would be an unmitigated failure because I have no
> confidence in the product, no vision on what it could do, no talent on how
> to market it, and no drive to see it through. It wouldn't matter if I
> listened to everyone on this List and added all the bells and whistles it's
> critics are complaining about. It would be a failure.
>
> But in Steve's hands I know it will be a success. I've been blown away by
> what some people have dreamt up for the thing. After seeing this:
>
> Alice In Wonderland - iPad eBook 
>
> If I had grandchildren, I'd buy one for them, not question. My wife will
> undoubtedly buy one, regardless of my 'what for???' protests. And if I
> somehow manage to get out of paying for it, she'll persuade her work to buy
> a couple.
>
> Some think that the Flash decision is wrong, but really all they are
> reflecting is the fact that they themselves couldn't make it work because of
> all their own sediment.
>
> Whether it's right or wrong isn't anywhere near as important as whether
> Steve can continue to make money without Flash, and I, and I'm sure most on
> this List, deep down, believe he can. Steve knows the market, knows how to
> spin things, knows where he's headed, knows the steps to get there, knows
> what life is like with Flash, and has a good handle on what life will be
> like without Flash, and it is he who has chosen the time to pull the plug.
>
> The Future will shortly be History repeating itself.
> ___
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> preferences:
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>
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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Wow.  You have a knack for pre-shaping a question to extract the exact result 
you are seeking, and then way way way over reading the complete lack of 
participation in your stacked "survey" to mean that the list agrees with your 
pre-spun conclusion.  Your "survey" was set up as a trap and everyone who read 
it knew it, thus your zero response participation.  Too bad the soviet union 
doesn't exist any more, they could use a pollster like you.

Even had you asked the dangerous question, Can "god" make mistakes? I think you 
would have had some data submitted.

The frustration most of us are feeling in our guts has only been inflamed by 
this latest apple announcement.  The frustration is the obvious and steady 
slipping away from general purpose computing as it is replaced by a media 
consumption and gaming platform in the form of a slick appliance.  For all of 
its "touchy" input fluidity, we know it isn't designed for creativity of 
engineering.  Nobody is using an ipad or iphone to develop ipad or iphone apps 
or operating systems.

I worry, as I am sure others do, that apple's market supported emphasis on 
consumption centered devices means a general drifting away from the go it your 
own freedom and power a good general purpose computer allows.

No one could have designed the ipad on an ipad.  Would never have happened.

The trend seems to point to a future for apple that looks more like General 
Electric.  A place to buy pre-built stuff more than a place to buy tools with 
which to invent the future.

Am I missing something, will tools be written for multi-touch environments such 
that we all willingly and happily walk away from our keyboards and pixel 
perfect pointing devices?

Or is the growing dread a worthy indicator that something big is shifting and 
that it will be harder and harder to find open ended "creativity machinery"?

  I think of the user-programmer revolution that smalltalk and hypercard made 
possible and how much more powerful the macintosh felt as a result.

And despite the gold rush motivations we might feel when we read of a kid in 
iowa who made a million dollars in a month selling a little app, we wonder if 
apple is making so much money on this consumption machine model that they will 
completely abandon those of us who think computing is about creativity and open 
ended creativity at that.

I want to see teens on the train building stuff not slaying fake dragons or 
scheming an encounter with a facebook friend's facebook friend.  I want that 
the open-ended creative option available to every teen, not just the hyper 
smart hyper nerdy.  Is it slipping away?

As for jobs.  He is great at finding the greed in consumers.  But unchecked, 
that greed seeking is only made more insidious by the amazingly designed 
products they release to us.  Is the ipad so slick to use that we forget our 
need to create?  Are those of us on the development end so motivated by many 
that we forget our obligation to the future of society?

Microsoft released a video demo of a hinged two screened touch slate.  For all 
of its clumsy interface (they are trying) it excites me none the less simply 
because I can imagine actually getting something done on the thing, building 
stuff.  Not FOR it, but ON it...

-Original Message-
From: Kay C Lan 
Sent: Monday, May 03, 2010 1:34 AM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

Ah, been gone for a couple of hours and come back to exactly what I
expected. Not a single List member nominated another List member as being
more capable of running Apple than Steve Jobs.

And not for want of campaigning. Some very spirited and some rather long
posts clearly trying to persuade the masses to vote their way, but in the
end not a single mind was changed, not a single prejudice altered - although
I much enjoyed the Electrical Engineers manifesto ;-)

So what it all boils down to is, some of us think Steve is wrong, and some
of us think that Steve is right, but regardless of whether he's right or
wrong, ALL of us know, deep down inside, no matter how much it pains us,
that Steve + Apple - Flash will make a whole heap more money than [your name
here] + Apple + Flash. And everyone on the List agrees ;-)

And the sediment left in the bottom is actually the pile of all our own
prejudices,  failings, misgivings, inadequacies, lack of vision and lack of
confidence.

I, and I know others on this List, don't see the point of an iPad. If I were
running Apple it would be an unmitigated failure because I have no
confidence in the product, no vision on what it could do, no talent on how
to market it, and no drive to see it through. It wouldn't matter if I
listened to everyone on this List and added all the bells and whistles it's
critics are complaining about. It would be a failure.




[The entire original message is not included]

Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Jerry Daniels]

I actually believe Apple HOPED the iPad and their overall initiative to 
reinvent computing would be a huge success. But I think they had concerns 
regarding how quickly it would sell beyond the Apple faithful...especially the 
reinvent computing part. Apple initially under-built the iPad in terms of units 
produced. That's why I say that.

But this list is about Revolution. 

This post is about the Apple mobile platform lock-down as it affects Rev 
developers. If were Apple, I would have difficulty viewing Revolution as a good 
partner with whom to reinvent computing. Rev for the Mac does not take 
advantage of Cocoa and DOES seek to common-denominate. 

Rev may have plans to change all that with a new IDE, etc, but the field object 
is still incapable of independently aligned, chunk-addressable columns in spite 
of user demand and outrage for years. So color me skeptical and Apple even more 
so as regards Rev keeping up with the times.

On the other hand, Revolution may regard Apple as a bad business partner for 
changing the rules after Rev created a splendid revMobile for the iPhone/iPad. 
Rev may have had it with Apple. I can understand that.

So...is the Apple lock-down just? For justice we must go to Don Corleone, and 
he does not exist. So time to forget that and the karma you think Apple 
deserves for being evil. 

Is the lock-down for Apple mobile devices for real? Yes.

Will the lock-down spread to OS X? Nominally, no. In reality, YES. The MacBook 
Touch (or whatever it's called) will run a locked-down variant of iPad OS. It 
just won't have the OS X moniker. 

Will Revolution have to embrace the Apple approach in order to follow it? Yes.

Moments like this one present huge opportunity for a small, nimble, and 
creative company. There's a new wind blowing and Rev has the sails 
(engineering) to catch it. The sails just need re-rigging. The wind (market 
momentum) is there. Will they re-rig?

Of this i can be certain: I will be sailing in those new waters with those new 
winds beneath my sails (and sales). I love developing and inventing tools. I 
love making money while I do it. I will be doing both with or without 
Revolution as we know it today.

Is the emerging Apple mobile market worth the re-tooling I will need to do?

I believe so. It has tremendous momentum. For a small company, latching onto a 
small growing market is the way to go. Also, I have to consider my own 
experience as an iPad user.

Using an iPad makes using my MacBook Pro feel almost anachronistic. I reach for 
the screen, wait for words to spell themselves, but my Mac just sits there. 
Using Windows OS at this point seems, I hate to say it...clunky. I would never 
have said this before, and I say this to foreshadow, not to derogate. 

What new development tools will I be creating for myself and others in the 
coming weeks and months to exploit the Apple mobile platform momentum?

I have been testing several concepts, and based on the proofs, have my sights 
set on some pretty exciting stuff. New approaches that will still seem 
familiar. I cannot say a whole lot more than that, right now. 

But I can say this: If you want to get involved in single language development 
for Mac, iPhone, iPad and whatever comes next, now would be a good time to get 
tRev, a Mac and an iPad if you don't already have them. tRev Mac users will get 
first access to these new tools to which I now only allude.

More on this in the coming week.   

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off:
http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch

On May 3, 2010, at 3:34 AM, Kay C Lan  wrote:

> Ah, been gone for a couple of hours and come back to exactly what I
> expected. Not a single List member nominated another List member as being
> more capable of running Apple than Steve Jobs.
> 
> And not for want of campaigning. Some very spirited and some rather long
> posts clearly trying to persuade the masses to vote their way, but in the
> end not a single mind was changed, not a single prejudice altered - although
> I much enjoyed the Electrical Engineers manifesto ;-)
> 
> So what it all boils down to is, some of us think Steve is wrong, and some
> of us think that Steve is right, but regardless of whether he's right or
> wrong, ALL of us know, deep down inside, no matter how much it pains us,
> that Steve + Apple - Flash will make a whole heap more money than [your name
> here] + Apple + Flash. And everyone on the List agrees ;-)
> 
> And the sediment left in the bottom is actually the pile of all our own
> prejudices,  failings, misgivings, inadequacies, lack of vision and lack of
> confidence.
> 
> I, and I know others on this List, don't see the point of an iPad. If I were
> running Apple it would be an unmitigated failure because I have no
> confidence in the product, no vision on what it could do, no talent on how
> to market it, and no drive to see it through. It wouldn't matter if I
> listened to everyone on this List and 

Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Richard Gaskin]

René Micout wrote:


http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/an_antitrust_app_buvCWcJdjFoLD5vBSkguGO


From tech blogger Hank Williams, on April 9:

  Trying to control where something is originally done is
  attempting to control the thought process that yields a
  given result. Because if you thought of it in Java, and
  wrote it in java, and then, whether by hand or by tool,
  converted it to C, you are now outside the bounds of 3.3.1.

  Some may say my interpretation is too pedantic. But the
  point is that in order for Apple to limit people in the
  way that they want to, i.e. to prevent the use of a given
  tool, they are inflicting collateral damage. I do not
  think there is a way to achieve their goal without such
  ridiculous restrictions. I have not done my legal homework
  here, but this seems to be a clear example of restraint of
  trade, a basic tenet of contract law.


Kinda ironic that Apple launched the Mac with a "1984"-themed ad, and 
now are willing to pursue criminal penalties for anyone who commits 
coder thoughtcrime.


Doubleplus ungood.

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[David C.]

On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 7:14 AM, Kurt Kaufman  wrote:
> I think that the combination of portability/touchscreen opens up a few new 
> tricks; an example:
>
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHiEqf5wb3g&NR=1&feature=fvwp
>
> It seems to me that Apple has its own versions of technologies that accept a 
> greater variety of user inputs, perhaps mitigating the need for Flash.  As 
> others have mentioned, we also see here a prime example of "heavy hype" in 
> action...___

That's quite amazing! Thanks for sharing it with us.

Best regards,
David C.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Richmond Mathewson]

 On 03/05/2010 16:32, René Micout wrote:

Is this true ?
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/an_antitrust_app_buvCWcJdjFoLD5vBSkguGO
René


I said there would be a backlash; but I didn't think it would
take this form.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[René Micout]

Hello Kurt,
Beautiful realisation !
René

Le 3 mai 2010 à 14:14, Kurt Kaufman a écrit :

> I think that the combination of portability/touchscreen opens up a few new 
> tricks; an example:
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nHiEqf5wb3g&NR=1&feature=fvwp
> 
> It seems to me that Apple has its own versions of technologies that accept a 
> greater variety of user inputs, perhaps mitigating the need for Flash.  As 
> others have mentioned, we also see here a prime example of "heavy hype" in 
> action...___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[René Micout]

Is this true ?
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/an_antitrust_app_buvCWcJdjFoLD5vBSkguGO
René___
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[chris livermore]

Wow! well said Kay... commonsense is back in town.

On 03/05/2010, at 6:34 PM, Kay C Lan wrote:


Ah, been gone for a couple of hours and come back to exactly what I
expected. Not a single List member nominated another List member as  
being

more capable of running Apple than Steve Jobs.

And not for want of campaigning. Some very spirited and some rather  
long
posts clearly trying to persuade the masses to vote their way, but  
in the
end not a single mind was changed, not a single prejudice altered -  
although

I much enjoyed the Electrical Engineers manifesto ;-)

So what it all boils down to is, some of us think Steve is wrong,  
and some
of us think that Steve is right, but regardless of whether he's  
right or
wrong, ALL of us know, deep down inside, no matter how much it pains  
us,
that Steve + Apple - Flash will make a whole heap more money than  
[your name

here] + Apple + Flash. And everyone on the List agrees ;-)

And the sediment left in the bottom is actually the pile of all our  
own
prejudices,  failings, misgivings, inadequacies, lack of vision and  
lack of

confidence.

I, and I know others on this List, don't see the point of an iPad.  
If I were

running Apple it would be an unmitigated failure because I have no
confidence in the product, no vision on what it could do, no talent  
on how

to market it, and no drive to see it through. It wouldn't matter if I
listened to everyone on this List and added all the bells and  
whistles it's

critics are complaining about. It would be a failure.

But in Steve's hands I know it will be a success. I've been blown  
away by

what some people have dreamt up for the thing. After seeing this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffFmtQWrYNg

If I had grandchildren, I'd buy one for them, not question. My wife  
will

undoubtedly buy one, regardless of my 'what for???' protests. And if I
somehow manage to get out of paying for it, she'll persuade her work  
to buy

a couple.

Some think that the Flash decision is wrong, but really all they are
reflecting is the fact that they themselves couldn't make it work  
because of

all their own sediment.

Whether it's right or wrong isn't anywhere near as important as  
whether
Steve can continue to make money without Flash, and I, and I'm sure  
most on
this List, deep down, believe he can. Steve knows the market, knows  
how to
spin things, knows where he's headed, knows the steps to get there,  
knows
what life is like with Flash, and has a good handle on what life  
will be
like without Flash, and it is he who has chosen the time to pull the  
plug.


The Future will shortly be History repeating itself.
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Chris Livermore - Senior Project Manager
www.kipmedia.com
Mobile 0403 288 504
cont...@kipmedia.com
__
B.Sc., Dip.Biol.Sc., Dip.Prof.Comm (multimedia).
- Scientific/Medical - multimedia education & training
- online databases, websites, cd, dvd, video
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Kay C Lan]

Ah, been gone for a couple of hours and come back to exactly what I
expected. Not a single List member nominated another List member as being
more capable of running Apple than Steve Jobs.

And not for want of campaigning. Some very spirited and some rather long
posts clearly trying to persuade the masses to vote their way, but in the
end not a single mind was changed, not a single prejudice altered - although
I much enjoyed the Electrical Engineers manifesto ;-)

So what it all boils down to is, some of us think Steve is wrong, and some
of us think that Steve is right, but regardless of whether he's right or
wrong, ALL of us know, deep down inside, no matter how much it pains us,
that Steve + Apple - Flash will make a whole heap more money than [your name
here] + Apple + Flash. And everyone on the List agrees ;-)

And the sediment left in the bottom is actually the pile of all our own
prejudices,  failings, misgivings, inadequacies, lack of vision and lack of
confidence.

I, and I know others on this List, don't see the point of an iPad. If I were
running Apple it would be an unmitigated failure because I have no
confidence in the product, no vision on what it could do, no talent on how
to market it, and no drive to see it through. It wouldn't matter if I
listened to everyone on this List and added all the bells and whistles it's
critics are complaining about. It would be a failure.

But in Steve's hands I know it will be a success. I've been blown away by
what some people have dreamt up for the thing. After seeing this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ffFmtQWrYNg

If I had grandchildren, I'd buy one for them, not question. My wife will
undoubtedly buy one, regardless of my 'what for???' protests. And if I
somehow manage to get out of paying for it, she'll persuade her work to buy
a couple.

Some think that the Flash decision is wrong, but really all they are
reflecting is the fact that they themselves couldn't make it work because of
all their own sediment.

Whether it's right or wrong isn't anywhere near as important as whether
Steve can continue to make money without Flash, and I, and I'm sure most on
this List, deep down, believe he can. Steve knows the market, knows how to
spin things, knows where he's headed, knows the steps to get there, knows
what life is like with Flash, and has a good handle on what life will be
like without Flash, and it is he who has chosen the time to pull the plug.

The Future will shortly be History repeating itself.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[J. Landman Gay]

Mark Wieder wrote:

Colin-

Sunday, May 2, 2010, 8:52:47 PM, you wrote:



On May 2, 2010, at 11:47 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:



"Should we just keep dancing on titanic's deck?
Is stupidity the new brilliant?"




Aha! Hence the new Apple slogan: Sink Different.






Kill Colin! See TheShortMovie.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Are you closer to understanding entropy and the  evolution of complexity now?

-Original Message-
From: Mark Swindell 
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:17 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

Randall,

Like most people, I'm neither Galileo nor the Church.  I sign my real name to 
my posts, and I asked you a real question hoping for a real answer... a simple, 
honest question about your vision for computing, to which you have no answer, 
only more masturbatory rhetoric, and the same name calling and juvenile 
inferences that only a few posts ago you so decried when it came your way.  So, 
unless you wish to become honest and stop hiding inside your linguistic 
psychedelics, I give up.  I'm not sure at this point that you'd recognize truth 
or honesty if it hit you upside the head with a two-by-four. 

Mark

On May 2, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

> Sad.  Truth matters in all affairs.  Good people can see through lies and 
> purposeful deceit.  History will judge.  Are you galileo or the church?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Swindell 
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:45 PM
> To: How to use Revolution 
> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> 



[The entire original message is not included]
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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

I guess if a person is sufficiently ignorant or has their fingers in their ears 
and screams, any honest answer will slip by un recognized.  Would you like it 
better if I said the future of computing is better touch up tools in photo 
editors?  In the nixon administration your rhetorical technique was called "rat 
f___ing" and was used as you are to thwart opponents who would win legitimate 
and fair debates or elections.  Tell me your great vision of computation or at 
the very least why you are so threatened by me. 

-Original Message-
From: Randall Lee Reetz 
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:23 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

Are you closer to understanding entropy and the  evolution of complexity now?

-Original Message-
From: Mark Swindell 
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:17 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

Randall,

Like most people, I'm neither Galileo nor the Church.  I sign my real name to 
my posts, and I asked you a real question hoping for a real answer... a simple, 
honest question about your vision for computing, to which you have no answer, 
only more masturbatory rhetoric, and the same name calling and juvenile 
inferences that only a few posts ago you so decried when it came your way.  So, 
unless you wish to become honest and stop hiding inside your linguistic 
psychedelics, I give up.  I'm not sure at this point that you'd recognize truth 
or honesty if it hit you upside the head with a two-by-four. 

Mark

On May 2, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

> Sad.  Truth matters in all affairs.  Good people can see through lies and


[The entire original message is not included]
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Richmond Mathewson]

 On 03/05/2010 05:17, Mark Swindell wrote:

Randall,

Like most people, I'm neither Galileo nor the Church.  I sign my real name to 
my posts, and I asked you a real question hoping for a real answer... a simple, 
honest question about your vision for computing, to which you have no answer, 
only more masturbatory rhetoric, and the same name calling and juvenile 
inferences that only a few posts ago you so decried when it came your way.  So, 
unless you wish to become honest and stop hiding inside your linguistic 
psychedelics, I give up.  I'm not sure at this point that you'd recognize truth 
or honesty if it hit you upside the head with a two-by-four.

Mark



Very well said.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Matthias Rebbe]

Dear all,

i think it is all said. Please stop this annoying discussion.

This list is called  "use-revolution", so maybe we can come back to this again. 

Thank you!

Matthias

Am 03.05.2010 um 07:23 schrieb Randall Lee Reetz:

> Are you closer to understanding entropy and the  evolution of complexity now?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Swindell 
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 7:17 PM
> To: How to use Revolution 
> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> 
> Randall,
> 
> Like most people, I'm neither Galileo nor the Church.  I sign my real name to 
> my posts, and I asked you a real question hoping for a real answer... a 
> simple, honest question about your vision for computing, to which you have no 
> answer, only more masturbatory rhetoric, and the same name calling and 
> juvenile inferences that only a few posts ago you so decried when it came 
> your way.  So, unless you wish to become honest and stop hiding inside your 
> linguistic psychedelics, I give up.  I'm not sure at this point that you'd 
> recognize truth or honesty if it hit you upside the head with a two-by-four. 
> 
> Mark
> 
> On May 2, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
> 
>> Sad.  Truth matters in all affairs.  Good people can see through lies and 
>> purposeful deceit.  History will judge.  Are you galileo or the church?
>> 
>> -Original Message-----
>> From: Mark Swindell 
>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:45 PM
>> To: How to use Revolution 
>> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> [The entire original message is not included]
> ___
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> preferences:
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Mark Wieder]

Colin-

Sunday, May 2, 2010, 8:52:47 PM, you wrote:


> On May 2, 2010, at 11:47 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

>> "Should we just keep dancing on titanic's deck?
>> Is stupidity the new brilliant?"


> Aha! Hence the new Apple slogan: Sink Different.



-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Richard Gaskin]

Alejandro Tejada wrote:


If computers ever adquire the kind of intelligence
that Randall would like them to have, they would
start plotting against us real soon... ;-)



Why the future doesn't need us.

Our most powerful 21st-century technologies - robotics, genetic 
engineering, and nanotech - are threatening to make humans an endangered 
species.


By Bill Joy

http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/8.04/joy_pr.html

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Colin Holgate]

On May 2, 2010, at 11:47 PM, Alejandro Tejada wrote:

> "Should we just keep dancing on titanic's deck?
> Is stupidity the new brilliant?"


Aha! Hence the new Apple slogan: Sink Different.



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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Alejandro Tejada]

Actually, Randall answer to Ian Wood makes perfect sense.

I would like to see this message written in billboards
in every road of USA:

"Should we just keep dancing on titanic's deck?
Is stupidity the new brilliant?"

If computers ever adquire the kind of intelligence
that Randall would like them to have, they would
start plotting against us real soon... ;-)

Alejandro
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Apples-actual-response-to-the-Flash-issue-tp2075668p2123477.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Richard Gaskin]

For a number of years now, work has has been proceeding in order to 
bring prefection to the crudely conceived idea of a machine that would 
work to not only supply inverse reactive current, for use in unilateral 
phase detectors, but would also be capable of automatically 
synchronising cardinal grammeters. Such a machine is the 
'Turboencabulator'. Basically, the only new principle involved is that 
instead of the power being generated by the relaxive motion of 
conductors and fluxes, it is produced by the modial interactions of 
magneto-reluctance and capacitive directance.


The original machine had a base-plate of prefabulated amulite, 
surrounded by a malleable logarithmic casing in such a way that the two 
spurving bearings were in direct line with the pentametric fan, the 
latter consisted simply of six hydrocoptic marzelvanes, so fitted to the 
ambifacient lunar vaneshaft that side fumbling was effectively 
prevented. The main winding was of the normal lotus-o-delta type placed 
in panendermic semiboloid solts in the stator, every seventh conductor 
being connected by a non-reversible termic pipe to the differential

girdlespring on the 'up' end of the grammeter.

Forty-one manestically placed grouting brushes were arrranged to feed 
into the rotor slip stream a mixture of high S-value phenyhydrobenzamine 
and 5 percent reminative tetraiodohexamine. Both these liquids have 
specific pericosities given by p=2.4 Cn where n is the diathecial 
evolute of retrograde temperature phase disposition and C is the 
Chomondeley's annual grillage coefficient. Initially, n was measured 
with the aid of a metapolar pilfrometer, but up to the present date 
nothing has been found to equal the transcetental hopper dadoscope.


Electrical engineers will appreciate the difficulty of nubbing together 
a regurgitative purwell and a superaminative wennel-sprocket. Indeed, 
this proved to be a stumbling block to further development until, in 
1943, it was found that the use of anhydrous nagling pins enabled a 
kyptonastic boiling shim to be tankered.


The early attempts to construct a sufficiently robust spiral 
decommutator failed largely because of lack of appreciation of the large 
quasi-pietic stresses in the gremlin studs; the latter were specially 
designed to hold the roffit bars to the spamshaft. When, however, it was 
discovered that wending could be prevented by the simple addition of 
teeth to socket, almost perfect running was secured.


The operating point is maintained as near as possible to the HF rem peak 
by constantly fromaging the bituminous spandrels. This is a distinct 
advance on the standard nivelsheave in that no drammock oil is required 
after the phase detractors have remissed.


Undoubtedly, the turboencabulator has now reached a very high level of 
technical development. It has been successfully used for operating nofer 
trunnions. In addition, whenever a barescent skor motion is required, it 
may be employed in conjunction with a drawn reciprocating dingle arm to 
reduce sinusoidal depleneration.


- From The Institute of Electrical Engineers,
  Students Quarterly Journal 25
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Thomas McGrath III]

[...]
NSString *documentsDirectory = [paths objectAtIndex:0];

while(!madeNewPath) {
imgPath = [documentsDirectory stringByAppendingPathComponent:[NSString 
stringWithFormat:@"WhatThe%i.jpg",x]];
if([[NSFileManager defaultManager] fileExistsAtPath:imgPath]) x++; else 
madeNewPath = TRUE;
}
[...]

restoredImg = [UIImage imageWithData:[NSData dataWithContentsOfFile:imgPath]];



On May 2, 2010, at 10:17 PM, Mark Swindell wrote:

> Randall,
> 
> Like most people, I'm neither Galileo nor the Church.  I sign my real name to 
> my posts, and I asked you a real question hoping for a real answer... a 
> simple, honest question about your vision for computing, to which you have no 
> answer, only more masturbatory rhetoric, and the same name calling and 
> juvenile inferences that only a few posts ago you so decried when it came 
> your way.  So, unless you wish to become honest and stop hiding inside your 
> linguistic psychedelics, I give up.  I'm not sure at this point that you'd 
> recognize truth or honesty if it hit you upside the head with a two-by-four. 
> 
> Mark
> 
> On May 2, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
> 
>> Sad.  Truth matters in all affairs.  Good people can see through lies and 
>> purposeful deceit.  History will judge.  Are you galileo or the church?
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Mark Swindell 
>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:45 PM
>> To: How to use Revolution 
>> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
>> 
>> I can answer the question of your vision myself?  I asked you to share your 
>> vision, in simplest terms, without ambiguity, through a few examples.  
>> Instead you answer with more obfuscation.  I can only think, after a certain 
>> point, that you don't really have a vision what you're after.  And don't say 
>> I didn't ask or that I'm in need of a teacher to tell me what to think or 
>> how to behave.  SImple questions deserve simple answers.
>> 
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> On May 2, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>> 
>>> You can answer that question your self easly enough.  Close your eyes, 
>>> imagine evolution doing what evolution does.  Where will complexity 
>>> handling systems be in 10, 20, 100 years?  The whole notion of sitting down 
>>> at a computer is hopelessly old-school.  The better question really is 
>>> "what is it that systems want?  Any systems.  Humans are a system.  Is it 
>>> the shovel we are after, or is it the ditch, is it water we want or the 
>>> fruit it grows, is it the fruit or the energy we receive, is it the energy 
>>> or is it the use we put that energy towards, what are these uses, what 
>>> drives us towards them, where is it all headed?  Is any of this something 
>>> that is best embodied in a spread sheet or a web page or a slide show?  
>>> aren't these notions simply the result of the limitations our imaginations 
>>> place upon the future as a result of historical experience?  The real 
>>> question becomes, what do you want out of life? 
>> 
>> 
>> [The entire original message is not included]
>> ___
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Roger . E . Eller]

It has been 10 minutes.  S.  I think he's asleep.  ;-)

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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Mark Swindell]

Randall,

Like most people, I'm neither Galileo nor the Church.  I sign my real name to 
my posts, and I asked you a real question hoping for a real answer... a simple, 
honest question about your vision for computing, to which you have no answer, 
only more masturbatory rhetoric, and the same name calling and juvenile 
inferences that only a few posts ago you so decried when it came your way.  So, 
unless you wish to become honest and stop hiding inside your linguistic 
psychedelics, I give up.  I'm not sure at this point that you'd recognize truth 
or honesty if it hit you upside the head with a two-by-four. 

Mark

On May 2, 2010, at 5:56 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

> Sad.  Truth matters in all affairs.  Good people can see through lies and 
> purposeful deceit.  History will judge.  Are you galileo or the church?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Swindell 
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:45 PM
> To: How to use Revolution 
> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> 
> I can answer the question of your vision myself?  I asked you to share your 
> vision, in simplest terms, without ambiguity, through a few examples.  
> Instead you answer with more obfuscation.  I can only think, after a certain 
> point, that you don't really have a vision what you're after.  And don't say 
> I didn't ask or that I'm in need of a teacher to tell me what to think or how 
> to behave.  SImple questions deserve simple answers.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> On May 2, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
> 
>> You can answer that question your self easly enough.  Close your eyes, 
>> imagine evolution doing what evolution does.  Where will complexity handling 
>> systems be in 10, 20, 100 years?  The whole notion of sitting down at a 
>> computer is hopelessly old-school.  The better question really is "what is 
>> it that systems want?  Any systems.  Humans are a system.  Is it the shovel 
>> we are after, or is it the ditch, is it water we want or the fruit it grows, 
>> is it the fruit or the energy we receive, is it the energy or is it the use 
>> we put that energy towards, what are these uses, what drives us towards 
>> them, where is it all headed?  Is any of this something that is best 
>> embodied in a spread sheet or a web page or a slide show?  aren't these 
>> notions simply the result of the limitations our imaginations place upon the 
>> future as a result of historical experience?  The real question becomes, 
>> what do you want out of life? 
> 
> 
> [The entire original message is not included]
> ___
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> preferences:
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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

I am not bitter.  I am so hopping to engage at the requisite level to pass this 
baton into the future.  The numbers aren't good.  We are faced with the largest 
challenge in the history of multicellular biology.  All anyone seems to want to 
talk about is "the economy" or ipad apps.  Its suicidal.  There must be people 
out there that care and care from a grounded and practical perspective?  Even 
if the global heat budget wasn't skyrocketing, we would still be served by 
larger discussions than the ifs and if nots of steve jobs... No?  You can't 
simultaneously bitch about urban banality and poopoo rational attempts to 
discuss ways to crawl out of it?  Why does my passion and sense of 
responsibility to honor the awsome sacrifices of the past that put us here, 
anger anyone?  I refuse to believe the vitrol pushed towards me is simply a 
reaction to my honest frustration.  Should we just keep dancing on titanic's 
deck?  Is stupidity the new brilliant?

-Original Message-
From: roger.e.el...@sealedair.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 6:22 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

On 05/02/2010 at 08:49 PM, "J. Landman Gay" wrote:
> Every few months, Randall interjects into a thread, which immediately
> swerves off-topic, escalates, and pisses off a bunch of people. Every
> time it happens, a few people swear they will never talk to him again.
> Mostly they don't. Unfortunately, each time it happens, new people get
> sucked in and the whole thing repeats itself.



[The entire original message is not included]
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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

I am not bitter.  I am so hopping to engage at the requisite level to pass this 
baton into the future.  The numbers aren't good.  We are faced with the largest 
challenge in the history of multicellular biology.  All anyone seems to want to 
talk about is "the economy" or ipad apps.  Its suicidal.  There must be people 
out there that care and care from a grounded and practical perspective?  Even 
if the global heat budget wasn't skyrocketing, we would still be served by 
larger discussions than the is and if not of steve jobs... No?  You can't 
simultaneously pitch about urban finality and poopoo rational attempts to 
discuss ways to crawl out of it?  Why does my passion and sense of 
responsibility to honor the past that put us here, anger anyone?  I refuse to 
believe the vitrol pushed towards me is simply a reaction to my honest 
frustration.  Should we just keep dancing on titanic's deck?  Is stupidity the 
new brilliant?

-Original Message-
From: roger.e.el...@sealedair.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 6:22 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

On 05/02/2010 at 08:49 PM, "J. Landman Gay" wrote:
> Every few months, Randall interjects into a thread, which immediately
> swerves off-topic, escalates, and pisses off a bunch of people. Every
> time it happens, a few people swear they will never talk to him again.
> Mostly they don't. Unfortunately, each time it happens, new people get
> sucked in and the whole thing repeats itself.
>
> The best way to end this is to stop replying.

So much of Randall's commentary is very very interesting. He is obviously a
scholar and a visionary. I only ask, why is he so bitter? There is nothing
we can do to bring forth his era of computing bliss.

I simply like using Revolution. Keyword "using". Randall wants improvements
in leaps so grand that only aliens or secret government technologies may
conceive of. Someone recently told me that the our technology today had
exceeded that of science-fiction's very own "Star Trek". I will agree that
the cell phone and iPad look like devices that were conceived of on sci-fi
television, yet we still burn fossil-fuels to go to the supermarket.

~Roger Eller

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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Not only do I believe this is happening, I am building (or attempting to build) 
a seed sufficient to evolve towards its eventuality.

-Original Message-
From: Michael Kann 
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:13 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

Mark, I wasn't trying to be funny. I really think that scenario is what Randall 
envisions. 

Mike

--- On Sun, 5/2/10, Mark Swindell  wrote:

> From: Mark Swindell 
> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 6:11 PM
> Maybe, but I suspect Randall has some
> ideas that I'd really like to hear about.  For the life
> of me, I have a hard time deciphering what they are. 
> But I'd like to hear about them, in simplest terms, without
> ambiguity.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> On May 2, 2010, at 4:07 PM, Michael Kann wrote:
> 
> > As I read what Randall proposes, you won't "sit down
> at a computer." The computer will have enough knowledge of
> the world to work full-time making the world a better place.
> Every so often it will sit down with a human to explain what
> it has discovered and what the human can do to help. 
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 5/2/10, Mark Swindell 
> wrote:
> > 
> >> From: Mark Swindell 
> >> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash
> issue
> >> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> >> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 5:58 PM
> >> Randall,
> >> 
> >> What do you want to see software do?  Please
> be
> >> succinct.  Give a handful of examples of what
> you
> >> envision happening when you sit down at a
> computer. 
> >> Real terms.  No philosophy.  I'm not
> trying to
> >> disrespect you here, I just don't fully comprehend
> what your
> >> vision is for software, and how that will make the
> computing
> >> world (and world) a better place.
> >> 
> >> Thanks,
> >> Mark
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On May 2, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Randall Lee Reetz
> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Ok, but


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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Roger . E . Eller]

On 05/02/2010 at 08:49 PM, "J. Landman Gay" wrote:
> Every few months, Randall interjects into a thread, which immediately
> swerves off-topic, escalates, and pisses off a bunch of people. Every
> time it happens, a few people swear they will never talk to him again.
> Mostly they don't. Unfortunately, each time it happens, new people get
> sucked in and the whole thing repeats itself.
>
> The best way to end this is to stop replying.

So much of Randall's commentary is very very interesting. He is obviously a
scholar and a visionary. I only ask, why is he so bitter? There is nothing
we can do to bring forth his era of computing bliss.

I simply like using Revolution. Keyword "using". Randall wants improvements
in leaps so grand that only aliens or secret government technologies may
conceive of. Someone recently told me that the our technology today had
exceeded that of science-fiction's very own "Star Trek". I will agree that
the cell phone and iPad look like devices that were conceived of on sci-fi
television, yet we still burn fossil-fuels to go to the supermarket.

~Roger Eller

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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[tsj]

I'm starting to think that Randall has already realised his dream and that
it's not him but a piece of software that is corresponding with us. And, not
only is it hyper intelligent (and thoughtful) but it's context-aware and
motion sensitive (on the road, in a café) ;)

It might be off-topic (mostly) but there are some interesting (general)
ideas in there and for the most part I'm enjoying it.

Cheers,

Terry...

On 3/05/10 10:56 AM, "Randall Lee Reetz"  wrote:

> Sad.  Truth matters in all affairs.  Good people can see through lies and
> purposeful deceit.  History will judge.  Are you galileo or the church?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Swindell 
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:45 PM
> To: How to use Revolution 
> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> 
> I can answer the question of your vision myself?  I asked you to share your
> vision, in simplest terms, without ambiguity, through a few examples.  Instead
> you answer with more obfuscation.  I can only think, after a certain point,
> that you don't really have a vision what you're after.  And don't say I didn't
> ask or that I'm in need of a teacher to tell me what to think or how to
> behave.  SImple questions deserve simple answers.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> On May 2, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
> 
>> You can answer that question your self easly enough.  Close your eyes,
>> imagine evolution doing what evolution does.  Where will complexity handling
>> systems be in 10, 20, 100 years?  The whole notion of sitting down at a
>> computer is hopelessly old-school.  The better question really is "what is it
>> that systems want?  Any systems.  Humans are a system.  Is it the shovel we
>> are after, or is it the ditch, is it water we want or the fruit it grows, is
>> it the fruit or the energy we receive, is it the energy or is it the use we
>> put that energy towards, what are these uses, what drives us towards them,
>> where is it all headed?  Is any of this something that is best embodied in a
>> spread sheet or a web page or a slide show?  aren't these notions simply the
>> result of the limitations our imaginations place upon the future as a result
>> of historical experience?  The real question becomes, what do you want out of
>> life? 
> 
> 
> [The entire original message is not included]
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription
> preferences:
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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

If you think what I have said is philosophy you are going to be wildly shocked 
by the next twenty years.

-Original Message-
From: Randall Lee Reetz 
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:20 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

You can answer that question your self easly enough.  Close your eyes, imagine 
evolution doing what evolution does.  Where will complexity handling systems be 
in 10, 20, 100 years?  The whole notion of sitting down at a computer is 
hopelessly old-school.  The better question really is "what is it that systems 
want?  Any systems.  Humans are a system.  Is it the shovel we are after, or is 
it the ditch, is it water we want or the fruit it grows, is it the fruit or the 
energy we receive, is it the energy or is it the use we put that energy 
towards, what are these uses, what drives us towards them, where is it all 
headed?  Is any of this something that is best embodied in a spread sheet or a 
web page or a slide show?  aren't these notions simply the result of the 
limitations our imaginations place upon the future as a result of historical 
experience?  The real question becomes, what do you want out of life? What does 
life want?  What is life?  What will life be?

-Original Message-
From: Mark Swindell 
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:58 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

Randall,

What do you want to see software do?  Please be succinct.  Give a handful of 
examples of what you envision happening when you sit down at a computer.  Real 
terms.  No philosophy.  I'm not trying to disrespect you here, I just don't 
fully comprehend what your vision is for software, and how that will


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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

... even with the aid of spreadsheets, databases, java and C.  Q?  Which had 
more effect on human affairs, the words of any one person, or the printing 
press that democratized access an publication?  The revolution at hand is as 
grand as the one that resulted in biology.

-Original Message-
From: Randall Lee Reetz 
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:30 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

I doubt this.  I doubt that it will be an it so much as it will be the 
infrastructure through which the world will come alive reflecting the intention 
of the intermingled motivations and resources of the entities at play in the 
global info sphere.  What we can say for certain is that systems complexity has 
reached the limits of what is comfortable for human minds to manage manually 
even with the he

-Original Message-
From: Michael Kann 
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:07 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

As I read what Randall proposes, you won't "sit down at a computer." The 
computer will have enough knowledge of the world to work full-time making the 
world a better place. Every so often it will sit down with a human to explain 
what it has discovered and what the human can do to help. 


--- On Sun, 5/2/10, Mark Swindell  wrote:

> From: Mark Swindell 
> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 5:58 PM
> Randall,



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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Chipp Walters]

J.

Godwin or Goodwin?

On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 7:07 PM, Jerry J  wrote:

> Aw, I'm getting tired of waiting for yet another proof of Godwin's law.
> Lets just go straight to a spelling flame, eh?
>
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Michael Kann]

It's like pledge week on public television. Just check back every once in a 
while to see if the regular programming has resumed.



--- On Sun, 5/2/10, J. Landman Gay  wrote:

> From: J. Landman Gay 
> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 7:48 PM
> Peter Haworth wrote:
> > I'm not sure what the etiquette of this board is or if
> there's a moderator, but surely this thing has wandered far
> off anything remotely to do with Revolution and taken up way
> too much space.  Can we get back to Revolution related
> topics?
> 
> Every few months, Randall interjects into a thread, which
> immediately swerves off-topic, escalates, and pisses off a
> bunch of people. Every time it happens, a few people swear
> they will never talk to him again. Mostly they don't.
> Unfortunately, each time it happens, new people get sucked
> in and the whole thing repeats itself.
> 
> The best way to end this is to stop replying.
> 
> -- Jacqueline Landman Gay     
>    |     jac...@hyperactivesw.com
> HyperActive Software       
>    |     http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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> your subscription preferences:
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> 



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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Sad.  Truth matters in all affairs.  Good people can see through lies and 
purposeful deceit.  History will judge.  Are you galileo or the church?

-Original Message-
From: Mark Swindell 
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:45 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

I can answer the question of your vision myself?  I asked you to share your 
vision, in simplest terms, without ambiguity, through a few examples.  Instead 
you answer with more obfuscation.  I can only think, after a certain point, 
that you don't really have a vision what you're after.  And don't say I didn't 
ask or that I'm in need of a teacher to tell me what to think or how to behave. 
 SImple questions deserve simple answers.

Mark


On May 2, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

> You can answer that question your self easly enough.  Close your eyes, 
> imagine evolution doing what evolution does.  Where will complexity handling 
> systems be in 10, 20, 100 years?  The whole notion of sitting down at a 
> computer is hopelessly old-school.  The better question really is "what is it 
> that systems want?  Any systems.  Humans are a system.  Is it the shovel we 
> are after, or is it the ditch, is it water we want or the fruit it grows, is 
> it the fruit or the energy we receive, is it the energy or is it the use we 
> put that energy towards, what are these uses, what drives us towards them, 
> where is it all headed?  Is any of this something that is best embodied in a 
> spread sheet or a web page or a slide show?  aren't these notions simply the 
> result of the limitations our imaginations place upon the future as a result 
> of historical experience?  The real question becomes, what do you want out of 
> life? 


[The entire original message is not included]
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[J. Landman Gay]

Peter Haworth wrote:
I'm not sure what the etiquette of this board is or if there's a 
moderator, but surely this thing has wandered far off anything remotely 
to do with Revolution and taken up way too much space.  Can we get back 
to Revolution related topics?


Every few months, Randall interjects into a thread, which immediately 
swerves off-topic, escalates, and pisses off a bunch of people. Every 
time it happens, a few people swear they will never talk to him again. 
Mostly they don't. Unfortunately, each time it happens, new people get 
sucked in and the whole thing repeats itself.


The best way to end this is to stop replying.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Jerry J]

On May 2, 2010, at 4:52 PM, Graham & Heather Harrison wrote:

> Randall Reetz wrote:
> 
>> We are still living in a world where computing exists as pre-written and 
>> compiled software that is blindly executed by machines and stacked 
>> foundational code that has no idea what it is processing, can only process 
>> linearly, all semantics have been stripped, it doesn't learn from experience 
>> or react to context unless this too has been pre-codified and frozen in 
>> binary or byte code, etc. etc etc.…
> 
>> … So our little wrote tricks can be made more elaborate…
> 
>> … What it means is the difference between writing a letter and our computer 
>> interceding by understanding the meta-intent of the wrote and inefficient 
>> processes we engage in today
> 
> 
> Now that's what I call a self-proving proposition.
> 
> "And though they wrote it all by rote, they did not write it right."

Aw, I'm getting tired of waiting for yet another proof of Godwin's law. Lets 
just go straight to a spelling flame, eh?
-- 
the other Jerry


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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Mark Swindell]

I can answer the question of your vision myself?  I asked you to share your 
vision, in simplest terms, without ambiguity, through a few examples.  Instead 
you answer with more obfuscation.  I can only think, after a certain point, 
that you don't really have a vision what you're after.  And don't say I didn't 
ask or that I'm in need of a teacher to tell me what to think or how to behave. 
 SImple questions deserve simple answers.

Mark


On May 2, 2010, at 4:20 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

> You can answer that question your self easly enough.  Close your eyes, 
> imagine evolution doing what evolution does.  Where will complexity handling 
> systems be in 10, 20, 100 years?  The whole notion of sitting down at a 
> computer is hopelessly old-school.  The better question really is "what is it 
> that systems want?  Any systems.  Humans are a system.  Is it the shovel we 
> are after, or is it the ditch, is it water we want or the fruit it grows, is 
> it the fruit or the energy we receive, is it the energy or is it the use we 
> put that energy towards, what are these uses, what drives us towards them, 
> where is it all headed?  Is any of this something that is best embodied in a 
> spread sheet or a web page or a slide show?  aren't these notions simply the 
> result of the limitations our imaginations place upon the future as a result 
> of historical experience?  The real question becomes, what do you want out of 
> life? What does life want?  What is life?  What will life be?
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Mark Swindell 
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:58 PM
> To: How to use Revolution 
> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> 
> Randall,
> 
> What do you want to see software do?  Please be succinct.  Give a handful of 
> examples of what you envision happening when you sit down at a computer.  
> Real terms.  No philosophy.  I'm not trying to disrespect you here, I just 
> don't fully comprehend what your vision is for software, and how that will 
> make the computing world (and world) a better place.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> On May 2, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
> 
>> Ok, but know that apple and adobe and microsoft are dealing with this issue 
>> in the context of these big-future projections.  Google too.  The old 
>> paradigm is well past its its viable life span and there is nothing but 
>> russian rockets left to heft us into place while we wait for the new.   
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: Peter Haworth 
>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:28 PM
>> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> 
> 
> 
> [The entire original message is not included]
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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

I doubt this.  I doubt that it will be an it so much as it will be the 
infrastructure through which the world will come alive reflecting the intention 
of the intermingled motivations and resources of the entities at play in the 
global info sphere.  What we can say for certain is that systems complexity has 
reached the limits of what is comfortable for human minds to manage manually 
even with the he

-Original Message-
From: Michael Kann 
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:07 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

As I read what Randall proposes, you won't "sit down at a computer." The 
computer will have enough knowledge of the world to work full-time making the 
world a better place. Every so often it will sit down with a human to explain 
what it has discovered and what the human can do to help. 


--- On Sun, 5/2/10, Mark Swindell  wrote:

> From: Mark Swindell 
> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 5:58 PM
> Randall,
> 
> What do you want to see software do?  Please be
> succinct.  Give a handful of examples of what you
> envision happening when you sit down at a computer. 
> Real terms.  No philosophy.  I'm not trying to
> disrespect you here, I just don't fully comprehend what your
> vision is for software, and how that will make the computing
> world (and world) a better place.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> On May 2, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
> 
> > Ok, but know that apple and adobe and microsoft are
> dealing with this issue in the context of these big-future
> projections.  Google too.  The old paradigm is
> well past its its viable life span and there is nothing but
> russian rockets left to heft us into place while we wait for
> the new.   
> > 
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Haworth 
> > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:28 PM
> > To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> > Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash
> issue
> > 
> > I'm not sure what the etiquette of this board is or if
> there's a  
> > moderator, but surely this thing has wandered far off
> anything  
> > remotely to do with Revolution and taken up way too
> much space.  Can  
> > we get back to Revolution related topics?


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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

You can answer that question your self easly enough.  Close your eyes, imagine 
evolution doing what evolution does.  Where will complexity handling systems be 
in 10, 20, 100 years?  The whole notion of sitting down at a computer is 
hopelessly old-school.  The better question really is "what is it that systems 
want?  Any systems.  Humans are a system.  Is it the shovel we are after, or is 
it the ditch, is it water we want or the fruit it grows, is it the fruit or the 
energy we receive, is it the energy or is it the use we put that energy 
towards, what are these uses, what drives us towards them, where is it all 
headed?  Is any of this something that is best embodied in a spread sheet or a 
web page or a slide show?  aren't these notions simply the result of the 
limitations our imaginations place upon the future as a result of historical 
experience?  The real question becomes, what do you want out of life? What does 
life want?  What is life?  What will life be?

-Original Message-
From: Mark Swindell 
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:58 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

Randall,

What do you want to see software do?  Please be succinct.  Give a handful of 
examples of what you envision happening when you sit down at a computer.  Real 
terms.  No philosophy.  I'm not trying to disrespect you here, I just don't 
fully comprehend what your vision is for software, and how that will make the 
computing world (and world) a better place.

Thanks,
Mark



On May 2, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

> Ok, but know that apple and adobe and microsoft are dealing with this issue 
> in the context of these big-future projections.  Google too.  The old 
> paradigm is well past its its viable life span and there is nothing but 
> russian rockets left to heft us into place while we wait for the new.   
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Haworth 
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:28 PM
> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com



[The entire original message is not included]
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Michael Kann]

Mark, I wasn't trying to be funny. I really think that scenario is what Randall 
envisions. 

Mike

--- On Sun, 5/2/10, Mark Swindell  wrote:

> From: Mark Swindell 
> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 6:11 PM
> Maybe, but I suspect Randall has some
> ideas that I'd really like to hear about.  For the life
> of me, I have a hard time deciphering what they are. 
> But I'd like to hear about them, in simplest terms, without
> ambiguity.
> 
> Mark
> 
> 
> On May 2, 2010, at 4:07 PM, Michael Kann wrote:
> 
> > As I read what Randall proposes, you won't "sit down
> at a computer." The computer will have enough knowledge of
> the world to work full-time making the world a better place.
> Every so often it will sit down with a human to explain what
> it has discovered and what the human can do to help. 
> > 
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 5/2/10, Mark Swindell 
> wrote:
> > 
> >> From: Mark Swindell 
> >> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash
> issue
> >> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> >> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 5:58 PM
> >> Randall,
> >> 
> >> What do you want to see software do?  Please
> be
> >> succinct.  Give a handful of examples of what
> you
> >> envision happening when you sit down at a
> computer. 
> >> Real terms.  No philosophy.  I'm not
> trying to
> >> disrespect you here, I just don't fully comprehend
> what your
> >> vision is for software, and how that will make the
> computing
> >> world (and world) a better place.
> >> 
> >> Thanks,
> >> Mark
> >> 
> >> 
> >> 
> >> On May 2, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Randall Lee Reetz
> wrote:
> >> 
> >>> Ok, but know that apple and adobe and
> microsoft are
> >> dealing with this issue in the context of these
> big-future
> >> projections.  Google too.  The old
> paradigm is
> >> well past its its viable life span and there is
> nothing but
> >> russian rockets left to heft us into place while
> we wait for
> >> the new.   
> >>> 
> >>> -Original Message-
> >>> From: Peter Haworth 
> >>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:28 PM
> >>> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> >>> Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the
> Flash
> >> issue
> >>> 
> >>> I'm not sure what the etiquette of this board
> is or if
> >> there's a  
> >>> moderator, but surely this thing has wandered
> far off
> >> anything  
> >>> remotely to do with Revolution and taken up
> way too
> >> much space.  Can  
> >>> we get back to Revolution related topics?
> >>> 
> >>> Pete Haworth
> >>> 
> >>>
> ___
> >>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe,
> unsubscribe and
> >> manage your subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>>
> ___
> >>> use-revolution mailing list
> >>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> >>> Please visit this url to subscribe,
> unsubscribe and
> >> manage your subscription preferences:
> >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >> 
> >> ___
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> >> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe
> and manage
> >> your subscription preferences:
> >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> >> 
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> manage your subscription preferences:
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Mark Swindell]

Maybe, but I suspect Randall has some ideas that I'd really like to hear about. 
 For the life of me, I have a hard time deciphering what they are.  But I'd 
like to hear about them, in simplest terms, without ambiguity.

Mark


On May 2, 2010, at 4:07 PM, Michael Kann wrote:

> As I read what Randall proposes, you won't "sit down at a computer." The 
> computer will have enough knowledge of the world to work full-time making the 
> world a better place. Every so often it will sit down with a human to explain 
> what it has discovered and what the human can do to help. 
> 
> 
> --- On Sun, 5/2/10, Mark Swindell  wrote:
> 
>> From: Mark Swindell 
>> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
>> To: "How to use Revolution" 
>> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 5:58 PM
>> Randall,
>> 
>> What do you want to see software do?  Please be
>> succinct.  Give a handful of examples of what you
>> envision happening when you sit down at a computer. 
>> Real terms.  No philosophy.  I'm not trying to
>> disrespect you here, I just don't fully comprehend what your
>> vision is for software, and how that will make the computing
>> world (and world) a better place.
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> Mark
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On May 2, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>> 
>>> Ok, but know that apple and adobe and microsoft are
>> dealing with this issue in the context of these big-future
>> projections.  Google too.  The old paradigm is
>> well past its its viable life span and there is nothing but
>> russian rockets left to heft us into place while we wait for
>> the new.   
>>> 
>>> -Original Message-
>>> From: Peter Haworth 
>>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:28 PM
>>> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>>> Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash
>> issue
>>> 
>>> I'm not sure what the etiquette of this board is or if
>> there's a  
>>> moderator, but surely this thing has wandered far off
>> anything  
>>> remotely to do with Revolution and taken up way too
>> much space.  Can  
>>> we get back to Revolution related topics?
>>> 
>>> Pete Haworth
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and
>> manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>>> 
>>> 
>>> ___
>>> use-revolution mailing list
>>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and
>> manage your subscription preferences:
>>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
>> 
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>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage
>> your subscription preferences:
>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
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> 
> 
> 
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Michael Kann]

As I read what Randall proposes, you won't "sit down at a computer." The 
computer will have enough knowledge of the world to work full-time making the 
world a better place. Every so often it will sit down with a human to explain 
what it has discovered and what the human can do to help. 


--- On Sun, 5/2/10, Mark Swindell  wrote:

> From: Mark Swindell 
> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 5:58 PM
> Randall,
> 
> What do you want to see software do?  Please be
> succinct.  Give a handful of examples of what you
> envision happening when you sit down at a computer. 
> Real terms.  No philosophy.  I'm not trying to
> disrespect you here, I just don't fully comprehend what your
> vision is for software, and how that will make the computing
> world (and world) a better place.
> 
> Thanks,
> Mark
> 
> 
> 
> On May 2, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
> 
> > Ok, but know that apple and adobe and microsoft are
> dealing with this issue in the context of these big-future
> projections.  Google too.  The old paradigm is
> well past its its viable life span and there is nothing but
> russian rockets left to heft us into place while we wait for
> the new.   
> > 
> > -Original Message-----
> > From: Peter Haworth 
> > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:28 PM
> > To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> > Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash
> issue
> > 
> > I'm not sure what the etiquette of this board is or if
> there's a  
> > moderator, but surely this thing has wandered far off
> anything  
> > remotely to do with Revolution and taken up way too
> much space.  Can  
> > we get back to Revolution related topics?
> > 
> > Pete Haworth
> > 
> > ___
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and
> manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > use-revolution mailing list
> > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and
> manage your subscription preferences:
> > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 
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> your subscription preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
> 



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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Really, all YOU can do is nitpick?  No content?  What pisses you off is that I 
care enough to think hard and long on these issues in context?  I didn't start 
this thread.  It went on and on and on as simplistic and "childish" woe is me, 
steve is the devil manner until I felt I had to step in and put the tantrum 
under the lens of reality bigger than our shared disappointment and 
frustration.  Everyone loves the simplicity and lynch-mob hysteria of a "tea 
party" cheering session.  Except I guess me.  If by ego you mean having the 
balls to think original thoughts and voice them at the risk of this constant 
chorus of "you make us look bad when you actually care", well you are right and 
it is worth everything you can throw at me to know what an authentic life feels 
like.  I only wish you had one. Then we could engage in a conversation of more 
meaning and substance.

-Original Message-
From: roger.e.el...@sealedair.com
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 2:35 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

Randall Reetz' robust ego wrote:
> Is this the topic?  Really?  All you can come up with?  Nasty
> childish nitpicking?  Yes emailing is dangerous while driving.
> I wrote that note at a gas station while filling my tank.  Now
> at cafe and ready to respond to substantive questions and comments.
>
> On May 2, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>
>> On 02/05/2010 22:40, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>>> Driving right now so will answer your questions as soon as I am out of
my car.
>>>
>>
>> That sounds fairly dangerous: answering e-mails while driving.

if "Driving right now" is not "I wrote that note at a gas station" then
  put "The author, or his robust ego cares very little about
  anything beyond fueling that ego with negative attention and
  wasted bandwidth on tangents that are far removed from the topic"
  closeTopic
 else
  put "This is childish nitpicking, NOT!"
  -- he uses the word 'childish' alot too, although if someone were to
  -- be seriously injured by responding to email while driving,
  -- I doubt whether that ego would be shaken in the least
end if



[The entire original message is not included]
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Mark Swindell]

Randall,

What do you want to see software do?  Please be succinct.  Give a handful of 
examples of what you envision happening when you sit down at a computer.  Real 
terms.  No philosophy.  I'm not trying to disrespect you here, I just don't 
fully comprehend what your vision is for software, and how that will make the 
computing world (and world) a better place.

Thanks,
Mark



On May 2, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

> Ok, but know that apple and adobe and microsoft are dealing with this issue 
> in the context of these big-future projections.  Google too.  The old 
> paradigm is well past its its viable life span and there is nothing but 
> russian rockets left to heft us into place while we wait for the new.   
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Peter Haworth 
> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:28 PM
> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> 
> I'm not sure what the etiquette of this board is or if there's a  
> moderator, but surely this thing has wandered far off anything  
> remotely to do with Revolution and taken up way too much space.  Can  
> we get back to Revolution related topics?
> 
> Pete Haworth
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
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> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
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> 
> 
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> preferences:
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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Ok, but know that apple and adobe and microsoft are dealing with this issue in 
the context of these big-future projections.  Google too.  The old paradigm is 
well past its its viable life span and there is nothing but russian rockets 
left to heft us into place while we wait for the new.   

-Original Message-
From: Peter Haworth 
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:28 PM
To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

I'm not sure what the etiquette of this board is or if there's a  
moderator, but surely this thing has wandered far off anything  
remotely to do with Revolution and taken up way too much space.  Can  
we get back to Revolution related topics?

Pete Haworth

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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

Yes, thanks, there are a few of us stretching back to babbage (even voltair), 
and more recently and more succinctly by schrodinger in his seminal "what is 
life" essay.

-Original Message-
From: Michael Kann 
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:08 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

Randall,

Take it up with this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Lenat

He's spent thirty-five years thinking about the same issues.



--- On Sun, 5/2/10, Randall Reetz  wrote:

> From: Randall Reetz 
> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 4:39 PM
> OK, Ian, I promised I would respond
> and here goes.  Sorry I didn't before, I had assumed
> your questions were rhetorical.
> 
> When I say that software hasn't changed I mean to say that
> it hasn't jumped qualitative categories.  We are still
> living in a world where computing exists as pre-written and
> compiled software that is blindly executed by machines and
> stacked foundational code that has no idea what it is
> processing, can only process linearly, all semantics have
> been stripped, it doesn't learn from experience or react to
> context unless this too has been pre-codified and frozen in
> binary or byte code, etc. etc etc.  Hardware has been
> souped up.  So our little wrote tricks can be made more
> elaborate within the substantial confines mentioned. 
> These same in-paradigm restrictions apply to both the
> software users slog through and the software we use to write
> software.
> 
> As a result, these very plastic machines with mercurial
> potential are reduced to simple players that react to user
> interrupts.  They are sequencing systems, not unlike
> the lead type setting racks of Guttenburg-era printing
> presses.  Sure we have taught them some interesting
> seeming tricks – if you can represent something as digital
> media, be it sound, video, multi-dimentional graph space,
> markup – our sequencer doesn't know enough to care.
> 
> Current 


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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Peter Haworth]

I'm not sure what the etiquette of this board is or if there's a  
moderator, but surely this thing has wandered far off anything  
remotely to do with Revolution and taken up way too much space.  Can  
we get back to Revolution related topics?


Pete Haworth

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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Michael Kann]

Randall,

Take it up with this guy:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Lenat

He's spent thirty-five years thinking about the same issues.



--- On Sun, 5/2/10, Randall Reetz  wrote:

> From: Randall Reetz 
> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 4:39 PM
> OK, Ian, I promised I would respond
> and here goes.  Sorry I didn't before, I had assumed
> your questions were rhetorical.
> 
> When I say that software hasn't changed I mean to say that
> it hasn't jumped qualitative categories.  We are still
> living in a world where computing exists as pre-written and
> compiled software that is blindly executed by machines and
> stacked foundational code that has no idea what it is
> processing, can only process linearly, all semantics have
> been stripped, it doesn't learn from experience or react to
> context unless this too has been pre-codified and frozen in
> binary or byte code, etc. etc etc.  Hardware has been
> souped up.  So our little wrote tricks can be made more
> elaborate within the substantial confines mentioned. 
> These same in-paradigm restrictions apply to both the
> software users slog through and the software we use to write
> software.
> 
> As a result, these very plastic machines with mercurial
> potential are reduced to simple players that react to user
> interrupts.  They are sequencing systems, not unlike
> the lead type setting racks of Guttenburg-era printing
> presses.  Sure we have taught them some interesting
> seeming tricks – if you can represent something as digital
> media, be it sound, video, multi-dimentional graph space,
> markup – our sequencer doesn't know enough to care.
> 
> Current processors are capable of 6.5 million instructions
> per second but are used less than a billionth of available
> cycles by the standard users running standard
> software.    The current paradigm absolutely
> abhors processor access not initiated by user input. 
> But even if it had the inclination to get some work down on
> its own… what would it do?  It doesn't know anything
> about anything so deciding what to do as the day progresses
> is impossible.
> 
> As regards photo editing software, anyone aware of the
> history of image processing will recognize that most of the
> stuff seen in photoshop and other programs was proposed and
> executed on systems long before some guys in france
> democratized these algorithms for consumer use and had their
> code acquired by adobe.  It used to be called array
> arithmetic and applied smoothly to images divided up into a
> grid of pixels.  None of these systems "see" an image
> for its content except as an array of numbers that can be
> crunched sequentially like a spread sheet.
> 
> It was only when object recognition concepts were applied
> to photos that any kind of compositional grammar could be
> extracted from an image and compared as parts to other
> images similarly decomposed.  This is a form of
> semantic processing and has its parallels in other media
> like text parsers and sound analysis software.
> 
> Semantics opens the door to the building of systems that
> "understand" the content they process.  That is the
> promised second revolution in computation that really hasn't
> seen any practical light of day as of yet.  Data mining
> really isn't semantically mindful, simply uses statistical
> reduction mechanisms to guess at the existence of the
> location of pattern ( a good first step but missing the
> grammatical hierarchy necessary to work towards a self
> optimized and domain independent ability to detect and
> represent salience in the stacked grammar that makes up any
> complex system.
> 
> Such systems will need to work all of the time.  ALL
> OF THE TIME!  Only pausing momentarily to pay attention
> to our interactions as needed.  Once they are running,
> these systems will subsume all of the manual activity we
> have been made to perform to this day.  Think "fly by
> wire" for processing.  Gone is the need to discreetly
> encode every single bit in exactly the only possible
> sequence.  We simply wont be able to know what bits are
> being processed, who or what made them, and more
> importantly, we won't have to care.
> 
> What it means is the difference between writing a letter
> and our computer interceding by understanding the
> meta-intent of the wrote and inefficient processes we engage
> in today – what are letters for?  What resources is
> this user or entity after and why?  Who has those
> resources?  Whom of those who have the desired
> resources need something that we might have in
> e

Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Reetz]

OK, Ian, I promised I would respond and here goes.  Sorry I didn't before, I 
had assumed your questions were rhetorical.

When I say that software hasn't changed I mean to say that it hasn't jumped 
qualitative categories.  We are still living in a world where computing exists 
as pre-written and compiled software that is blindly executed by machines and 
stacked foundational code that has no idea what it is processing, can only 
process linearly, all semantics have been stripped, it doesn't learn from 
experience or react to context unless this too has been pre-codified and frozen 
in binary or byte code, etc. etc etc.  Hardware has been souped up.  So our 
little wrote tricks can be made more elaborate within the substantial confines 
mentioned.  These same in-paradigm restrictions apply to both the software 
users slog through and the software we use to write software.

As a result, these very plastic machines with mercurial potential are reduced 
to simple players that react to user interrupts.  They are sequencing systems, 
not unlike the lead type setting racks of Guttenburg-era printing presses.  
Sure we have taught them some interesting seeming tricks – if you can represent 
something as digital media, be it sound, video, multi-dimentional graph space, 
markup – our sequencer doesn't know enough to care.

Current processors are capable of 6.5 million instructions per second but are 
used less than a billionth of available cycles by the standard users running 
standard software.The current paradigm absolutely abhors processor access 
not initiated by user input.  But even if it had the inclination to get some 
work down on its own… what would it do?  It doesn't know anything about 
anything so deciding what to do as the day progresses is impossible.

As regards photo editing software, anyone aware of the history of image 
processing will recognize that most of the stuff seen in photoshop and other 
programs was proposed and executed on systems long before some guys in france 
democratized these algorithms for consumer use and had their code acquired by 
adobe.  It used to be called array arithmetic and applied smoothly to images 
divided up into a grid of pixels.  None of these systems "see" an image for its 
content except as an array of numbers that can be crunched sequentially like a 
spread sheet.

It was only when object recognition concepts were applied to photos that any 
kind of compositional grammar could be extracted from an image and compared as 
parts to other images similarly decomposed.  This is a form of semantic 
processing and has its parallels in other media like text parsers and sound 
analysis software.

Semantics opens the door to the building of systems that "understand" the 
content they process.  That is the promised second revolution in computation 
that really hasn't seen any practical light of day as of yet.  Data mining 
really isn't semantically mindful, simply uses statistical reduction mechanisms 
to guess at the existence of the location of pattern ( a good first step but 
missing the grammatical hierarchy necessary to work towards a self optimized 
and domain independent ability to detect and represent salience in the stacked 
grammar that makes up any complex system.

Such systems will need to work all of the time.  ALL OF THE TIME!  Only pausing 
momentarily to pay attention to our interactions as needed.  Once they are 
running, these systems will subsume all of the manual activity we have been 
made to perform to this day.  Think "fly by wire" for processing.  Gone is the 
need to discreetly encode every single bit in exactly the only possible 
sequence.  We simply wont be able to know what bits are being processed, who or 
what made them, and more importantly, we won't have to care.

What it means is the difference between writing a letter and our computer 
interceding by understanding the meta-intent of the wrote and inefficient 
processes we engage in today – what are letters for?  What resources is this 
user or entity after and why?  Who has those resources?  Whom of those who have 
the desired resources need something that we might have in exchange?  How are 
the vectors of intent among all entities entangled and grouped and how can our 
systems work towards the optimization of this global intent matrix?

So, when I use the word "revisionist" I am calling attention to the old sheep 
dressed up in new clothing but still being sheep.  Software feature creep is 
not really evolving software.  As the good programmers at REV know, most of the 
work to maintain a product is incurred just keeping current of changes in the 
OS substrate on which they run.  This rarely results in qualitative paradigm 
jumps.

That the jump is so long in coming is understandable.  It is easy to send a 
punch card through a machine and have it react accordingly every time.  The 
jump from wrote execution of static code to self aware semantically self 
optimized pattern engines i

Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Roger . E . Eller]

Randall Reetz' robust ego wrote:
> Is this the topic?  Really?  All you can come up with?  Nasty
> childish nitpicking?  Yes emailing is dangerous while driving.
> I wrote that note at a gas station while filling my tank.  Now
> at cafe and ready to respond to substantive questions and comments.
>
> On May 2, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:
>
>> On 02/05/2010 22:40, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>>> Driving right now so will answer your questions as soon as I am out of
my car.
>>>
>>
>> That sounds fairly dangerous: answering e-mails while driving.

if "Driving right now" is not "I wrote that note at a gas station" then
  put "The author, or his robust ego cares very little about
  anything beyond fueling that ego with negative attention and
  wasted bandwidth on tangents that are far removed from the topic"
  closeTopic
 else
  put "This is childish nitpicking, NOT!"
  -- he uses the word 'childish' alot too, although if someone were to
  -- be seriously injured by responding to email while driving,
  -- I doubt whether that ego would be shaken in the least
end if

on closeTopic
  put "This topic is badly in need of the presence of the List Mum"
end closeTopic

Posted mostly in fun, but in part by getting annoyed with how far off-topic
this thread has drifted.

~Roger Eller

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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Chipp Walters]

COMPLEXITY EXISTS ONLY TO INCREASES DISORDER. EVOLUTION IS THE
REFINEMENT OF A FITNESS METRIC. IT IS THE PROCESS OF REFINING A
CRITERIA FOR THE MEASUREMENT OF THE CAPACITY OF A SYSTEM TO MAXIMIZE
ITS FUTURE POTENTIAL TO HOLD COMPLEXITY. THIS METRIC BECOMES EVER MORE
SOPHISTICATED, AND CAN NEVER BE PREDETERMINED.

I'm not sure what the big question is there, but it's certainly an
authentic statement, directly from the header of your blog.

I shall not poke fun at it as I'm sure it's a babelfish translation
from some Paleolithic scribblings  on a cave wall somewhere in
southwestern France. It's clearly beyond my limited scope of
understanding.

On Sunday, May 2, 2010, Randall Reetz  wrote:
> How about my blog: "http:www.complexitymetric.blogspot.com".  I certainly 
> don't shy away from making authentic statements and asking the big questions.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Ian Wood]

On 2 May 2010, at 21:24, Randall Reetz wrote:

Now at cafe and ready to respond to substantive questions and  
comments.


So what's stopping you? Why not start with explaining why facial  
recognition is the only revolution in photo programs in two decades?


Ian
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Reetz]

How about my blog: "http:www.complexitymetric.blogspot.com".  I certainly don't 
shy away from making authentic statements and asking the big questions.  All of 
my work is standard model compliant and in agreement with all known laws of 
physics.  If you want to argue with me you will need to show how I have 
missapplied these laws or how the laws themselves are wrong.

Randall


On May 2, 2010, at 11:15 AM, David C. wrote:

>> The only reason I'm even reading this thread is I, too, out of
>> the blue, received off-list messages regarding your incite full
>> posts. And, I feel humbled in the presence of the only
>> visionary thinker in the world with regard to software.
> 
> I typically avoid participation in threads like this, but I just have
> to this time around...
> 
> Outside of the "knee deep in B.S." factor, I find it a bit unusual for
> such to be spewed forth from a "visionary" who's web site currently
> has the following content:
> 
> rhetoric - under construction
> ideas - under construction
> future - under construction
> 
> ...a tad bit of food for thought.
> 
> Regards,
> David C.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Reetz]

Sad.

On May 2, 2010, at 12:17 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> On 02/05/2010 22:13, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>> Personal attacks again?  Really, you need to substitute that 7 year old crap 
>> for a genuine statement of content?  And you don't think people see it for 
>> what it is?  Is it because the teacher left the room?  Is that the level of 
>> morality you have achieved?  So, how about some content?  A substantive 
>> rebuttal?  Putting your ideas out there for all to see?
>> 
>> -Original Message-
>> From: David C.
>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 11:15 AM
>> To: How to use Revolution
>> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
>> 
>>> The only reason I'm even reading this thread is I, too, out of
>>> the blue, received off-list messages regarding your incite full
>>> posts. And, I feel humbled in the presence of the only
>>> visionary thinker in the world with regard to software.
>> I typically avoid participation in threads like this, but I just have
>> to this time around...
>> 
>> Outside of the "knee deep in B.S." factor, I find it a bit unusual for
>> such to be spewed forth from a "visionary" who's web site currently
>> has the following content:
>> 
>> rhetoric - under construction
>> ideas - under construction
>> future - under construction
>> 
>> ...a tad bit of food for thought.
>> 
>> Regards,
>> David C.
> 
> Thanks, David, for pointing the way to Randall's website; I enjoyed my visit 
> there,
> and I am sure many other people would. I found it helped to contextualise a 
> lot
> what Randall writes about.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Reetz]

Is this the topic?  Really?  All you can come up with?  Nasty childish 
nitpicking?  Yes emailing is dangerous while driving.  I wrote that note at a 
gas station while filling my tank.  Now at cafe and ready to respond to 
substantive questions and comments.

On May 2, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> On 02/05/2010 22:40, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:
>> Driving right now so will answer your questions as soon as I am out of my 
>> car.
>> 
> 
> That sounds fairly dangerous: answering e-mails while driving.
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RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Randall Lee Reetz]

And what is the disagreement?  Is it making fun of an abandoned web site?

-Original Message-
From: Richmond Mathewson 
Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 12:48 PM
To: How to use Revolution 
Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

  On 02/05/2010 22:39, David C. wrote:
>> Personal attacks again?
> Well, it really wasn't intended as a personal attack exactly...
> I don't even know ya and really don't care about the subject matter.
>
> It was more of a poorly judged stab at some off the wall humor.
>

I have a funny feeling that some people, when they feel that they are
in a logical corner, or their particular viewpoint is under-appreciated,
instead of either getting on with something else, finding a better
argument to justify their viewpoint, admitting they were wrong, or
whatever, react by calling a disagreement a personal attack.

having a fairly robust ego myself I don't do this; I go away and make
a salad, wash the dishes, drink a cup of coffee, go for a walk; and
calm down and, normally find out that just about 50% of what I percieved
to be problematic is my fault. Or I just laugh the whole thing off
by making some daft joke on the Use-List . . . anybody for a
purple dinosaur . . . or 2 ???

If one indulges in whacky humour then should realise that:

1. Not everyone will share your deep sense of fun.

2. You are going to get 'poo' thrown back at you sooner or later.



[The entire original message is not included]
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Richmond Mathewson]

 On 02/05/2010 22:40, Randall Lee Reetz wrote:

Driving right now so will answer your questions as soon as I am out of my car.



That sounds fairly dangerous: answering e-mails while driving.
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Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue

[Richmond Mathewson]

 On 02/05/2010 22:39, David C. wrote:

Personal attacks again?

Well, it really wasn't intended as a personal attack exactly...
I don't even know ya and really don't care about the subject matter.

It was more of a poorly judged stab at some off the wall humor.



I have a funny feeling that some people, when they feel that they are
in a logical corner, or their particular viewpoint is under-appreciated,
instead of either getting on with something else, finding a better
argument to justify their viewpoint, admitting they were wrong, or
whatever, react by calling a disagreement a personal attack.

having a fairly robust ego myself I don't do this; I go away and make
a salad, wash the dishes, drink a cup of coffee, go for a walk; and
calm down and, normally find out that just about 50% of what I percieved
to be problematic is my fault. Or I just laugh the whole thing off
by making some daft joke on the Use-List . . . anybody for a
purple dinosaur . . . or 2 ???

If one indulges in whacky humour then should realise that:

1. Not everyone will share your deep sense of fun.

2. You are going to get 'poo' thrown back at you sooner or later.

But, hey; I teach primary kids from 7 to 13 and constantly have
'poo' thrown at me: it is my "bread and butter" my lovelies.
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