Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Wow. Pretty strong arguments. On 29 April 2010 08:22, Thomas McGrath III <3mcgr...@comcast.net> wrote: > This is from the Apple website: > > http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ > ___ > -- - Stephen Barncard Back home in SF ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 29/04/2010 18:22, Thomas McGrath III wrote: This is from the Apple website: http://www.apple.com/hotnews/thoughts-on-flash/ ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution That does make a lot of sense. . . :) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
"If developers grow dependent on third party development libraries and tools, they can only take advantage of platform enhancements if and when the third party chooses to adopt the new features." That, my friends, could apply to RunRev as well as all the other "third party development libraries and tools", which makes me wonder how long it is until Apple, despite recent protestations, starts drawing lines in the sand and getting "all restrictive" with stuff built for Mac; maybe even building detection routines into their OS to picl up on stuff no developed with their developer tools? Unfortunately, I have grown "dependent on third party development libraries and tools", i.e. RunRev (and I do not regret it for one moment), so I am praying like Billy-Oh that this does not happen. Just in case it does, it would behoove RunRev to pay more attention to one OS that does not go in for restrictive practises: Linux . . . :) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Dear Richmond, Linux does not create Macintosh, iPhone and iPad !! ;-) René Le 29 avr. 2010 à 18:32, Richmond Mathewson a écrit : > "If developers grow dependent on third party development libraries and tools, > they can only take advantage of platform enhancements if and when the third > party chooses to adopt the new features." > > That, my friends, could apply to RunRev as well as all the other > "third party development libraries and tools", which makes me > wonder how long it is until Apple, despite recent protestations, > starts drawing lines in the sand and getting "all restrictive" > with stuff built for Mac; maybe even building detection routines > into their OS to picl up on stuff no developed with their > developer tools? > > Unfortunately, I have grown "dependent on third party development libraries > and tools", > i.e. RunRev (and I do not regret it for one moment), so I am praying like > Billy-Oh that this > does not happen. > > Just in case it does, it would behoove RunRev to pay more attention to one OS > that > does not go in for restrictive practises: Linux . . . :) > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 04/29/2010 at 01:01 PM, René Micout wrote: > Dear Richmond, > Linux does not create Macintosh, iPhone and iPad !! > ;-) > René > >> On April 29, 2010 at 18:32, Richmond Mathewson wrote: >> ... snip ... >> Unfortunately, I have grown "dependent on third party development libraries and tools", >> i.e. RunRev (and I do not regret it for one moment), so I am praying like Billy-Oh that this >> does not happen. >> >> Just in case it does, it would behoove RunRev to pay more attention to one OS that >> does not go in for restrictive practises: Linux . . . :) René, I see your wink ;-) emoticon, so I know you are just poking at Richmond in fun. But on the serious side, there are other popular OS's for computers and mobile devices that are far less restrictive than Apple. Rev resources do seem to be leaning heavily toward only one source as of lately. I am still waiting patiently for a Linux revWeb plugin and to see a maemo version of RevMobile. iThis and iThat seems to be more fun for the team right now though. ~Roger Eller ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Hello Roger, I just want to point out that Apple is not only a creator of OS, but also the creator of computers throughout the last decades have greatly advanced the technology. This is what I understand the statement of Steve Jobs. I also regret what could happen to RevMobile, with many projects around the iPad (for my own non-profit research). But as we say in French : si cela ne se peut je ferais contre mauvaise fortune bon cœur ! Bon souvenir de Paris René Le 29 avr. 2010 à 19:17, roger.e.el...@sealedair.com a écrit : > On 04/29/2010 at 01:01 PM, René Micout wrote: >> Dear Richmond, >> Linux does not create Macintosh, iPhone and iPad !! >> ;-) >> René >> >>> On April 29, 2010 at 18:32, Richmond Mathewson wrote: >>> ... snip ... >>> Unfortunately, I have grown "dependent on third party development > libraries and tools", >>> i.e. RunRev (and I do not regret it for one moment), so I am praying > like Billy-Oh that this >>> does not happen. >>> >>> Just in case it does, it would behoove RunRev to pay more attention to > one OS that >>> does not go in for restrictive practises: Linux . . . :) > > René, > > I see your wink ;-) emoticon, so I know you are just poking at Richmond in > fun. But on the serious side, there are other popular OS's for computers > and mobile devices that are far less restrictive than Apple. Rev resources > do seem to be leaning heavily toward only one source as of lately. I am > still waiting patiently for a Linux revWeb plugin and to see a maemo > version of RevMobile. iThis and iThat seems to be more fun for the team > right now though. > > ~Roger Eller > > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 29/04/2010 20:01, René Micout wrote: Dear Richmond, Linux does not create Macintosh, iPhone and iPad !! ;-) René I know. Possibly you misunderstood the 'sting in the tail' of my message. What I meant was that as there might be a risk of Macintosh closing its doors to anything not developed with their Developer Tools it might be a good idea for RunRev to concentrate of sorting out their Linux version. Le 29 avr. 2010 à 18:32, Richmond Mathewson a écrit : "If developers grow dependent on third party development libraries and tools, they can only take advantage of platform enhancements if and when the third party chooses to adopt the new features." That, my friends, could apply to RunRev as well as all the other "third party development libraries and tools", which makes me wonder how long it is until Apple, despite recent protestations, starts drawing lines in the sand and getting "all restrictive" with stuff built for Mac; maybe even building detection routines into their OS to picl up on stuff no developed with their developer tools? Unfortunately, I have grown "dependent on third party development libraries and tools", i.e. RunRev (and I do not regret it for one moment), so I am praying like Billy-Oh that this does not happen. Just in case it does, it would behoove RunRev to pay more attention to one OS that does not go in for restrictive practises: Linux . . . :) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Some very wise comments on this issue: http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/04/pot-meet-kettle-a-response-to-steve-jobs-letter-on-flash.ars -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Apples-actual-response-to-the-Flash-issue-tp2075668p2077346.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 30/04/2010 21:36, Peter Alcibiades wrote: Some very wise comments on this issue: http://arstechnica.com/apple/news/2010/04/pot-meet-kettle-a-response-to-steve-jobs-letter-on-flash.ars Lest you forget: "freedom is slavery" . . . :( ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 2:36 AM, Peter Alcibiades < palcibiades-fi...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: > > Some very wise comments on this issue: > > Yes, many of the reader 'comments' made about this article are very wise. Unfortunately the article itself seems to be written by someone who believes they live in an idealistic world where people are forced to buy Apple products. Weird. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 01/05/2010 04:34, Kay C Lan wrote: On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 2:36 AM, Peter Alcibiades< palcibiades-fi...@yahoo.co.uk> wrote: Some very wise comments on this issue: Yes, many of the reader 'comments' made about this article are very wise. Unfortunately the article itself seems to be written by someone who believes they live in an idealistic world where people are forced to buy Apple products. Well; nobody is forced to buy Apple products, but there is a tremendous amount of peer pressure among the 20-40 year olds (who make up the majority of the tech consumers) which almost amounts to compulsion. Steve Jobs, like it or not, does have dictatorial tendencies, and, like it or not, he does have tremendous power. It is entirely possible, of course, to pop round the corner, buy a cheapo PC and run whatever form of Linux grabs your fancy for next to nothing - I know because that is very much "my bag"; but I'm a 48 year-old non-conformist who has had people being rude to and about him for so long that he has ceased to care; having a sufficiently self-confident ego that it hasn't been crushed over the years. Unfortunately (at least from my point of view) the world that buys new computers (i.e. North America, Europe, Australia and the Pacific Rim) does not consist of lots of goats; it consists of sheep mainly. Last year, in Edinburgh the most informative thing for me (even more than the conference) were the looks my wife's 7 year old G4 iBook was getting in the Student halls of residence from Japanese students; several of them came over and asked me why I didn't have a whizz-bang, spiffy-bananas macBook - I don't think any of them could understand my reply: "When it breaks down completely I will buy a new laptop, if I still need one." I have a similar problem with 3 spoilt rich kids I teach English to who cannot understand why I have a G3 iMac at the front of the class rather than some newer machine attached to a monster flat-screen VDU. I have told them that when I put my fees up from £4 for 90 minutes to £40 I will get a flat-screen for myself upstairs; but that the G3 is "just the ticket" for the school. - Yes, there are many wise remarks; but they are probably tempered by a realisation that most of the "spending public" are fairly foolish and prone to the winds of fashion. The woman who helps my younger son with his Bulgarian literature came round to borrow some money the other day because she had seen a whopper flat-screen TV at half price in some trade mag a week earlier and spent the month's food-and-bills money on it so she could be just like the people next door (who enjoy a much larger income): I forwent the temptation to give her a suitably pompous lecture . . . :) Quod erat demonstrandum (kept the pomposity for here). ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
The article starts out by endorsing Jobs' criticism of Flash and agreeing with him that the problem with Flash is that it is proprietary, and that an Internet in which much of the content is coded in a proprietary format which requires a particular software package from one vendor to access it, is a bad thing. By 'a bad thing' people who make this argument usually mean that an outcome may result from the rational, informed and independent choices of the individuals who make up a society. But were they collectively to be asked whether it they like or approve of it or prefer it, they would say no. The ensemble of choices rational for the indiviiduals, when taken as a whole, diminishes utility for all. We might prefer there to be clean fuel regulations, but if there are not any, coal is cheaper and its rational for us as individuals to burn it, because going to coke is more expensive for us, and will make no difference to total emissions. Now consider revWeb. Jobs would have the same objection to it. If it were simply an easy and cheap way to write apps which run in a browser, that would be fine. But if it were to get out and be, like Flash, a medium in which much public Internet content was coded, everyone would have to install the revWeb plug-in, and that would be only available from one vendor. Both Jobs and the EFF would object to this even if, as with Flash, its adoption resulted from free individual choices by content developers and web users. Jobs is then strongly critical of cross-platform development suites. Rev is, or is trying to be, fully cross platform, and revWeb makes it cross platform in spades: it makes it possible to compile to a browser application, as well as a standalone desktop application. So this is cross platform between desktop and web browser app, and it also tries to be cross platform across browsers, and finally it is cross-platform in the traditional sense, between different operating systems. The article points out that the grounds on which Jobs objects to Flash are also applicable to much of Apple's own conduct, and it points out in addition that the real problem for Jobs with cross platform development tools is that they allow 'write once run everywhere', whereas what Jobs would like is to have total control over applications and content on 'his' platform, and so would like to have writing for Apple be a dedicated exercise tailored to their platform. Rev is clearly in the sights on this one. There is an odd idea, in some recent defenses of Apple, and in the comments on Ars, that the only legitimate reply to a company doing something whose effects on society one does not approve of, as a citizen, is to refrain from buying their products. This makes as much sense as the idea that if one disapproves of the potentially catastrophic effect of the mass adoption of financial derivatives in the finance sector, one should restrict one's action to not buying them. The EFF is pointing out that proprietary content formats on the Net are a Bad Thing for everyone who wants to see information in non-proprietary formats, on grounds of intellectual freedom. People who feel this, like me, often feel it because of hard experience of orphaned data. There are cases in which nationally important content has simply vanished in electronic form, because of proprietary coding. Now, we may not have been the authors or copyright owners of it. But we have an interest in there being continued access to our cultural heritage, as readers and customers, yes, and as citizens. The EFF would have the same problem with revWeb if it became adopted in the same way that Flash has been, for the same reasons. Unless the approach of the company were to change. Its then going on to point our that Apple achieves the same end, restriction of availability of content and of what people can do with their platforms, by different and additional means. So the bottom line of the article is: Adobe and Apple are two versions of closed and proprietary, and for one to criticize the other for being proprietary is rather hilarious, and both are bad for society. The lesson for us however should be that Rev meets two of Jobs' criteria for being linked to the Anti-Party clique: One, its proprietary and on the net. Two, its cross platform. So watch out: the next stop is a knock on the door at 3am and a long holiday in sunny Siberia. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Apples-actual-response-to-the-Flash-issue-tp2075668p2107283.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
I guess someone else agrees with Apple: http://www.itnews.com.au/News/173519,microsoft-announces-ie9-will-not-support-flash.aspx What a hoot :-)) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 01/05/2010 10:34, Kay C Lan wrote: I guess someone else agrees with Apple: http://www.itnews.com.au/News/173519,microsoft-announces-ie9-will-not-support-flash.aspx What a hoot :-)) Is that person's name really "Hachamovitch"? Hack - em - over - itch. Must be the lack of sleep last night . . . :) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
I don't like or approve of Flash either! But it is hilarious to see the people who are opposing it and why. To an outside observer it seems like MS, Adobe, Apple are all about as alike as Coke and Pepsi on this one. Maybe Apple is a bit worse but there's not much in it. HTML5 is not open. Its a different flavor of proprietary, by the way. H264 is proprietary. Its like Italy and Portugal should suddenly express pious horror about the fact that Greece is running large deficits. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Apples-actual-response-to-the-Flash-issue-tp2075668p2111625.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
If this were April 1st I'd certainly think you were on to something, but a Google search of 'Dean Hachamovitch' reveals he really is who they say he is. Bye Bye Flash... Almost seems like a Tech Lynching. Now let me guess, there'll be a whole bunch of rumours surrounding this event, followed by legal action, accusations, investigations; but inevitably a slow an painful death. On Sat, May 1, 2010 at 3:43 PM, Richmond Mathewson < richmondmathew...@gmail.com> wrote: > On 01/05/2010 10:34, Kay C Lan wrote: > >> I guess someone else agrees with Apple: >> >> >> http://www.itnews.com.au/News/173519,microsoft-announces-ie9-will-not-support-flash.aspx >> >> What a hoot :-)) >> > > Is that person's name really "Hachamovitch"? > > Hack - em - over - itch. > > Must be the lack of sleep last night . . . :) > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your > subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On May 1, 2010, at 3:34 AM, Kay C Lan wrote: > I guess someone else agrees with Apple: > > http://www.itnews.com.au/News/173519,microsoft-announces-ie9-will-not-support-flash.aspx > > What a hoot :-)) That article has been quoted all over the place, and fortunately most of the debate has been about what bad reporting it is, and not about IE9's support of Flash. The IE9 support mentioned in the original blog (http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2010/04/29/html5-video.aspx) is only talking about video formats, and not about Flash in general. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> I guess someone else agrees with Apple: > > http://www.itnews.com.au/News/173519,microsoft-announces-ie9-w > ill-not-support-flash.aspx I could be wrong, but I believe several sites are quoting this link: http://blogs.msdn.com/ie/archive/2010/04/29/html5-video.aspx I don't think he is saying Flash won't work in IE 9, only that H.264 is the only native video format that will run. Did IE 9 drop the IE 8 plugin architecture? Best regards, Lynn Fredricks President Paradigma Software http://www.paradigmasoft.com Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 1 May 2010, at 08:55, Peter Alcibiades wrote: HTML5 is not open. Its a different flavor of proprietary, by the way. H264 is proprietary. H264 is proprietary, but h264 is NOT part of HTML5. HTML5 just specifies a video tag without specifying the type of video. HTML5 is no more proprietary than previous versions of HTML. Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 01/05/2010 19:24, Ian Wood wrote: On 1 May 2010, at 08:55, Peter Alcibiades wrote: HTML5 is not open. Its a different flavor of proprietary, by the way. H264 is proprietary. H264 is proprietary, but h264 is NOT part of HTML5. HTML5 just specifies a video tag without specifying the type of video. HTML5 is no more proprietary than previous versions of HTML. Maybe I'm being a bit stupid, but it does seem as if the word 'open' as used in phrases such as 'open source' and 'open standards' is a bit hard to pin down; what is one person's open-ness seems to be a bit closed to another person and vice-versa. Also; for the sake of argument: I offered to Ubuntu, a few years back, Linux builds of a couple of Phonetics programs I had cobbled together (and at that time my level of skill was such that they were literally 'cobbled') with RunRev 2.0.1. Ubuntu refused them on the basis that I had made them using non-open source code (which annoyed me). Now how far back does one push things? Is there such a thing as really 'open' code? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
don't you guys get it? Adobe is the biggest creep in techdom. Do you remember how they screwed apple over post script? They are the patent hogs who have stymied computational evolution for 30 years. The only company worse then them was micromedia and adobe acquired flash by buying them outright. Apple and microsoft aren't against flash! They are pressuring adobe to lighten up on the use agreements. Maybe something so core as graphics description shouldn't be proprietary? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 01/05/2010 22:23, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: don't you guys get it? Adobe is the biggest creep in techdom. Do you remember how they screwed apple over post script? They are the patent hogs who have stymied computational evolution for 30 years. The only company worse then them was micromedia and adobe acquired flash by buying them outright. Apple and microsoft aren't against flash! They are pressuring adobe to lighten up on the use agreements. Maybe something so core as graphics description shouldn't be proprietary? ___ Nonsense: there is nothing to choose between Apple, Microsoft and Adobe; and Macromedia wasn't any better, but for companies to survive they have to eat smaller ones. While simple Darwinian theory may not make all that much sense for explaining biology it seems pretty good for describing certain aspects of corporate behaviour. All these companies remind me of Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia: sign a treaty of 'eternal friendship' for as long as it serves your needs and then turn around and kill each other's foot soldiers when the wind blows the other way. The ones who really fuss me are characters like Mark Shuttleworth, who looks, on the surface, a bit too good to be true. How long is it until he makes his move? --- "Maybe something so core as graphics description shouldn't be proprietary? " Well, err, yes . . . but who did the donkey work and shouldn't they get some sort of reward for their labours? --- "Maybe something so core as graphics description shouldn't be proprietary? " Yup; maybe everything should be FREE and we can all run around wreathed in garlands of pansies singing paeons of praise to the mysterious forces that labour without a thought in their pretty little heads about their own needs. -- "Patent hogs" . . . oink! I wonder if the hard working folk who are employed by Adobe to do all the marvellous things they have done would have done any of that work if, by not having legal protection for the end products of their labours, Adobe would have been unable to pay them a living wage because every person with some sort of knowledge of programming would have been churning out 'Fotoshop', 'Photoboutique', 'Snapshop' and so forth based on pinched ideas. I am a great believer in Open Source software, but I am also well aware that in almost all cases a proprietary bit of stuff came first. Without Photoshop we would have no GIMP, Without Illustrator we would have no Inkscape, Without Microsoft Office we would have no Open Office, and so on. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
To look at photshop or illustrator as chronos as perfect form in their categories is like looking to some awkward plated dinosaur as pattern for the future of land animals. If the target of open source is restricted to the application layer we should expect nothing more than crippled duplicates of 20 year old ideas. And from this you push innovation? I have yet to hear an open source advocate talk to the evolution of technology. It is largely an ayn rand anarchist after school club for all white mall arcade raised nerds lacking in any real vision. That said, adobe kicks itself in the same profit seeking foot when it can't imaging a more profitable means of leveraging its IP than a suite of software in boxes and a hyper-aggressive junk yard dog approach to market access. Profit seeking isn't the devil... Stupid profit seeking is. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Also, adobe isn't doing any of its code "donkeys" any favors when it under exploits the market through old world protectionist business practices and an avoidance of future looking technology. As with retirement pools, an entity will never be able to sustain old obligations on the profits of old ideas. New ideas and new levels of profitability are the only way to pay the obligations owed to the inventors for efforts towards past innovations. If adobe really wants to profit from its own past it will have to figure out how to generalive and subsume the salient aspects of its IP to a layer new products and markets can build on top of. Holding on to software application markets born 20 years ago is a strategy born to fail. I think IBM Is a good lesson on how a company needs to think about maturing. Don't push your past solutions, push the human resources and resource management and infrastructure knowhow that your old product successes make evident. Sell the ability to make solutions, not solutions themselves. Give away the source as a way to market the minds. More money will flow in. Stock holders (the original innovators) will benefit more than thy would through draconian measures to extend the natural life of a product category. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Great short article that I believe accurately describes the corporate culture behind Apple's platform lock down. Mark Bernstein: Platform Control http://www.markbernstein.org/Apr10/PlatformControl.html (via Instapaper) Best, Jerry Daniels Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off: http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
I don't buy it. I think that apple is frustrated that it can't build a vector based video description language without infringing on adobe's patents. I think that apple has tried unsuccessfully to engage adobe in a joint project or to buy the rights. I think microsoft has as well. This is a freezout. A hunger strike. Apple would never piss off its customers without an absolute need pressing them into this dangerous territory. Apple needs to break adobe's stubbornness. This is a last resort move which will give them and ms legal ammo in an antitrust battle should they have build their own patient busting protocol. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
The article explains, in somewhat emotional and overwrought terms, why Apple would want to there to be an alternative to the major programs people run on Macs, like MS Office and Photoshop. It still does not really explain why it rationally needs these alternatives to be developed in-house, but still. It also gives a conjectured motivation why Apple should feel that Adobe's IPR limits its ability to develop an in house alternative in the case of image processing. Yes, possibly so. It happens in business. When Apple imposes such restrictions its called 'protecting our IPRs'. What the article does not explain is Apple's apparent felt need to control what apps its users install on their devices, what content they access on their devices, or its apparent need to control what tools developers use. Its like most of the defenses of Apple's conduct: One, the arguments fail to defend the behaviors people find objectionable, two, if they were offered in favor of similar conduct by any other company, they'd be indignantly rejected. Fortunately however the implications of the lock-in and control mania are now hitting the MSM, so lets hope that Apple's free ride on these issues is coming to an end. -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Apples-actual-response-to-the-Flash-issue-tp2075668p2122605.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Without MacPaint we would have no Photoshop and Illustrator and so on ;-) Le 1 mai 2010 à 21:41, Richmond Mathewson a écrit : > Without Photoshop we would have no GIMP, > > Without Illustrator we would have no Inkscape, > > Without Microsoft Office we would have no Open Office, > > and so on. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 1 May 2010, at 23:44, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: I have yet to hear an open source advocate talk to the evolution of technology. Depends on your definitions. One of the big new features for CS5 (content-aware fill) was already available as a plug=in for the GIMP. Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Le 2 mai 2010 à 00:44, Randall Lee Reetz a écrit : > It is largely an ayn rand anarchist after school club for all white mall > arcade raised nerds lacking in any real vision. Very difficult for a french to understand that ! If English speaker dont speak English then "Je m'exprimerai en français sur ce forum !" ;-)___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Even if I do not always understand the words of Randall, on the merits, I quite agree with what he says. Le 2 mai 2010 à 02:11, Randall Lee Reetz a écrit : > Also, adobe isn't doing any of its code "donkeys" any favors when it under > exploits the market through old world protectionist business practices and an > avoidance of future looking technology. As with retirement pools, an entity > will never be able to sustain old obligations on the profits of old ideas. > New ideas and new levels of profitability are the only way to pay the > obligations owed to the inventors for efforts towards past innovations. If > adobe really wants to profit from its own past it will have to figure out how > to generalive and subsume the salient aspects of its IP to a layer new > products and markets can build on top of. Holding on to software application > markets born 20 years ago is a strategy born to fail. I think IBM Is a good > lesson on how a company needs to think about maturing. Don't push your past > solutions, push the human resources and resource management and > infrastructure knowhow that your old product successes make evident. Sell > the ability to make solutions, not solutions themselves. Give away the > source as a way to market the minds. More money will flow in. Stock holders > (the original innovators) will benefit more than thy would through draconian > measures to extend the natural life of a product category. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Yes, And this is for me, now, at microscopic scale, the same thing with RunRev. The difference is that I have not enough talent to master Objective C (and English also !!) ;-) Le 2 mai 2010 à 06:49, Jerry Daniels a écrit : > Great short article that I believe accurately describes the corporate culture > behind Apple's platform lock down. > > Mark Bernstein: Platform Control > > http://www.markbernstein.org/Apr10/PlatformControl.html > > (via Instapaper) > > Best, > > Jerry Daniels > > Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off: > http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 02/05/2010 11:26, Ian Wood wrote: On 1 May 2010, at 23:44, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: I have yet to hear an open source advocate talk to the evolution of technology. Depends on your definitions. One of the big new features for CS5 (content-aware fill) was already available as a plug=in for the GIMP. Ian Randall Lee Reetz has already declared his antipathy towards Open Source software so many times that this was sure to be his response to my posting. In an OPEN world (hey, look, Richmond is also using that over-used-and-abused word) there should be room for 100% Open Source stuff and 100% proprietary stuff and all possible stuff in between. I belong to a broad church that admits all levels and types of beliefs (well, at least as far as software is concerned). Open Source offerings have now reached a certain level of maturity that means they can compete with and complement Commercial software; I think if GIMP and Photoshop want to play leapfrog with each other that is an extremely healthy situation. Frankly, as a lot of Open Source developers seem to use false names it would not entirely surprise me if some of the people who work on Photoshop don't work on GIMP in their spare time . . . :) We are all well aware that commercial companies are always 'stealing' ideas from each other; the fact that Open Source is involved in this and vice-versa should neither surprise or worry us. What should worry us is when somebody comes along and blocks the chance for that healthy sort of competition to take place. There should always be space for all sorts of types of software and types of marketing; monopolies, whether state controlled or company controlled are what we have to fear because that is when stagnation sets in. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
This is a good example of what Mr. Jobs called the lowest common denominator : a poor French without enough control in English, slows the debate ! Le 2 mai 2010 à 10:31, René Micout a écrit : > > Le 2 mai 2010 à 00:44, Randall Lee Reetz a écrit : > >> It is largely an ayn rand anarchist after school club for all white mall >> arcade raised nerds lacking in any real vision. > > Very difficult for a french to understand that ! > If English speaker dont speak English then "Je m'exprimerai en français sur > ce forum !" > ;-)___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 02/05/2010 11:31, René Micout wrote: Le 2 mai 2010 à 00:44, Randall Lee Reetz a écrit : It is largely an ayn rand anarchist after school club for all white mall arcade raised nerds lacking in any real vision. Very difficult for a french to understand that ! If English speaker dont speak English then "Je m'exprimerai en français sur ce forum !" ;-)___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution Ayn Rand was a Hungarian who became an American; she advocated an extremely crude form of anarcho-capitalism. Her books are 2-dimensional exercises in projecting her ideas that are extremely popular with the 20-30 set who have been through their left-wing phase and are now experiencing their backlash reaction. Once people realise how 2-dimensional her ideas are and how they fail to account (just as Marxism does) for the nature of humanity they move on; normally giving up adopting extreme political postures. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Thank you, once again, Richmond, to perfect my culture. Only ONE book of Ayn Rand is translate in French and his ideas have not much (at all) prospered here. Le 2 mai 2010 à 10:57, Richmond Mathewson a écrit : > On 02/05/2010 11:31, René Micout wrote: >> Le 2 mai 2010 à 00:44, Randall Lee Reetz a écrit : >> >>> It is largely an ayn rand anarchist after school club for all white mall >>> arcade raised nerds lacking in any real vision. >> Very difficult for a french to understand that ! >> If English speaker dont speak English then "Je m'exprimerai en français sur >> ce forum !" >> ;-)___ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > Ayn Rand was a Hungarian who became an American; she advocated an extremely > crude form of > anarcho-capitalism. Her books are 2-dimensional exercises in projecting her > ideas that are > extremely popular with the 20-30 set who have been through their left-wing > phase and are now > experiencing their backlash reaction. Once people realise how 2-dimensional > her ideas are and > how they fail to account (just as Marxism does) for the nature of humanity > they move on; normally > giving up adopting extreme political postures. > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
"It is largely an ayn rand anarchist after school club for all white mall arcade raised nerds lacking in any real vision" OK, a deconstruction. The writer considers (for reasons he does not make clear) that advocates of Open Source software are followers of the US novelist Ayn Rand. Rand was a curious figure who ran a small cult political movement at the end of the last century, called Objectivism, and wrote several awful novels. The writer thinks that Rand and her followers were anarchists. (I don't think they were). They are usually thought to be extremely right wing. The next phrase suggests that he thinks Open Source advocates are infantile. He says "after school club". That is, they are morally at least still at a level of needing to be under parental and teacher control, and their participation in Open Source is analogous to an after school club activity, strictly juvenile. "all white mall arcade nerds" They are all white skinned 'nerds', that is people with no social skills and an obsession with technology. I am not sure what their color has to do with this, but still An arcade is a sort of enclosure, and a games arcade will have lots of game machines in it, and a mall is a shopping mall. So he suggests that open source advocates have spent their youth in shopping mall corridors playing video games on machines, and that this is the extent of their culture. Not only that, they are white, and followers of Ayn Rand, and anarchists with it! Well. I hope that helps you understand the English. Understanding the thought is something I cannot help you with -- View this message in context: http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Apples-actual-response-to-the-Flash-issue-tp2075668p2122649.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Peter, thank you for this explanation of text :-) Le 2 mai 2010 à 11:18, Peter Alcibiades a écrit : > > "It is largely an ayn rand anarchist after school club for all white mall > arcade raised nerds lacking in any real vision" > > OK, a deconstruction. > > The writer considers (for reasons he does not make clear) that advocates of > Open Source software are followers of the US novelist Ayn Rand. Rand was a > curious figure who ran a small cult political movement at the end of the > last century, called Objectivism, and wrote several awful novels. > > The writer thinks that Rand and her followers were anarchists. (I don't > think they were). They are usually thought to be extremely right wing. > > The next phrase suggests that he thinks Open Source advocates are infantile. > He says "after school club". That is, they are morally at least still at a > level of needing to be under parental and teacher control, and their > participation in Open Source is analogous to an after school club activity, > strictly juvenile. > > "all white mall arcade nerds" > > They are all white skinned 'nerds', that is people with no social skills and > an obsession with technology. I am not sure what their color has to do with > this, but still > > An arcade is a sort of enclosure, and a games arcade will have lots of game > machines in it, and a mall is a shopping mall. So he suggests that open > source advocates have spent their youth in shopping mall corridors playing > video games on machines, and that this is the extent of their culture. > > Not only that, they are white, and followers of Ayn Rand, and anarchists > with it! > > Well. I hope that helps you understand the English. Understanding the > thought is something I cannot help you with > -- > View this message in context: > http://runtime-revolution.278305.n4.nabble.com/Apples-actual-response-to-the-Flash-issue-tp2075668p2122649.html > Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
The way the present worldwide civil war acts vhere the monopolistic entreprises candidates are the fighters/armies and workers/peoples the victims. Until when ?... Best Regards, Le 1 mai 2010 à 21:41, Richmond Mathewson a écrit : > Nonsense: there is nothing to choose between Apple, Microsoft and Adobe; > and Macromedia wasn't any better, but for companies to survive they have > to eat smaller ones. While simple Darwinian theory may not make all that > much sense for explaining biology it seems pretty good for describing > certain aspects of corporate behaviour. > > All these companies remind me of Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia: > sign a treaty of 'eternal friendship' for as long as it serves your needs and > then turn around and kill each other's foot soldiers when the wind blows > the other way. -- Pierre Sahores mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70 www.wrds.com www.sahores-conseil.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 02/05/2010 12:37, Pierre Sahores wrote: The way the present worldwide civil war acts vhere the monopolistic entreprises candidates are the fighters/armies and workers/peoples the victims. Until when ?... As I am not a left-winger I do not see a polarisation between workers and monopolistic enterprises; after all, monopolistic enterprises consist of people. The whole thing looks like an all-too human problem: people like to belong to tribes, and tribes like to have chieftains. The trouble is that very, very few chieftains care about their tribesmen, and forget that they are chieftains only at the sufferance of their tribesmen. The tribesmen also forget that they can topple their chieftains quite easily; they wander around with their mouths hanging open in awe of the mighty chief - forgetting that s/he is, ultimately, no better than they are. Best Regards, Le 1 mai 2010 à 21:41, Richmond Mathewson a écrit : Nonsense: there is nothing to choose between Apple, Microsoft and Adobe; and Macromedia wasn't any better, but for companies to survive they have to eat smaller ones. While simple Darwinian theory may not make all that much sense for explaining biology it seems pretty good for describing certain aspects of corporate behaviour. All these companies remind me of Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia: sign a treaty of 'eternal friendship' for as long as it serves your needs and then turn around and kill each other's foot soldiers when the wind blows the other way. -- Pierre Sahores mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70 www.wrds.com www.sahores-conseil.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
"Nous sommes bien d'accord !" Kind Regards, Pierre Le 2 mai 2010 à 11:47, Richmond Mathewson a écrit : > On 02/05/2010 12:37, Pierre Sahores wrote: >> The way the present worldwide civil war acts vhere the monopolistic >> entreprises candidates are the fighters/armies and workers/peoples the >> victims. Until when ?... > > As I am not a left-winger I do not see a polarisation between workers and > monopolistic enterprises; after all, monopolistic > enterprises consist of people. > > The whole thing looks like an all-too human problem: people like to belong to > tribes, and tribes like to have chieftains. > > The trouble is that very, very few chieftains care about their tribesmen, and > forget that they are chieftains only at the > sufferance of their tribesmen. > > The tribesmen also forget that they can topple their chieftains quite easily; > they wander around with their mouths > hanging open in awe of the mighty chief - forgetting that s/he is, > ultimately, no better than they are. > >> Best Regards, >> >> Le 1 mai 2010 à 21:41, Richmond Mathewson a écrit : >> >>> Nonsense: there is nothing to choose between Apple, Microsoft and Adobe; >>> and Macromedia wasn't any better, but for companies to survive they have >>> to eat smaller ones. While simple Darwinian theory may not make all that >>> much sense for explaining biology it seems pretty good for describing >>> certain aspects of corporate behaviour. >>> >>> All these companies remind me of Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia: >>> sign a treaty of 'eternal friendship' for as long as it serves your needs >>> and >>> then turn around and kill each other's foot soldiers when the wind blows >>> the other way. >> -- >> Pierre Sahores >> mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70 >> >> www.wrds.com >> www.sahores-conseil.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > -- Pierre Sahores mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70 www.wrds.com www.sahores-conseil.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
I am talking revolutionary innovations, not feature creep. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
I meant "generalize and subsume" (word hinting is a killer app). -Original Message- From: René Micout Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 1:34 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue Even if I do not always understand the words of Randall, on the merits, I quite agree with what he says. Le 2 mai 2010 à 02:11, Randall Lee Reetz a écrit : > Also, adobe isn't doing any of its code "donkeys" any favors when it under > exploits the market through old world protectionist business practices and an > avoidance of future looking technology. As with retirement pools, an entity > will never be able to sustain old obligations on the profits of old ideas. > New ideas and new levels of profitability are the only way to pay the > obligations owed to the inventors for efforts towards past innovations. If > adobe really wants to profit from its own past it will have to figure out how > to generalive and subsume the salient aspects of its IP to a layer new > products and markets can build on top of. Holding on to software application > markets born 20 years ago is a strategy born to fail. I think IBM Is a good > lesson on how a company needs to think about maturing. Don't push your past > solutions, push the human resources and resource management and > infrastructure knowhow that your old product successes make evident. Sell > the ability to make solutions, not solutions themselves. Give away the > source as a way to market the minds. More money will flow in. Stock holders > (the original innovators) will benefit more than thy would through draconian > measures to extend the natural life of a product category. ___ [The entire original message is not included] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Richard, I am not anti open-source. But I have noticed trends in the category. What I am frustrated with is the continual revisionist approach to software development... that photshop seemed great 20 years ago really doesn't mean we should still be subjected to it's awkwardness today. Nobody seems to be stepping back far enough to take in the full scope of the field of computation and ask "what is computation and where is it going in the long run?" without asking such questions we are bound to spend another 60 years building slightly better word processors instead of asking "what is it we are attempting to accomplish when we write?" So many of the issues we find so important are simply historical contingencies. Where is the progress? Just because an open source program is free doesn't mean it is better or more evolved than the $300 app it apes. Also, it is simply ridiculous to think that the average person is prepared or willing to put up with the technical bush wacking required of open source users. If a solution doesn't scale, it really isn't a solution. Presenting your personal go-it-alone mountain-man solutions as universal advise is crazy or macho. Lets get real. -Original Message- From: Richmond Mathewson Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 1:53 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue On 02/05/2010 11:26, Ian Wood wrote: > > On 1 May 2010, at 23:44, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: > >> I have yet to hear an open source advocate talk to the evolution of >> technology. > > Depends on your definitions. One of the big new features for CS5 > (content-aware fill) was already available as a plug=in for the GIMP. > > Ian Randall Lee Reetz has already declared his antipathy towards Open Source software so many times that this was sure to be his response to my posting. In an OPEN world (hey, look, Richmond is also using that over-used-and-abused word) there should be room for 100% Open Source stuff and 100% proprietary stuff and all possible stuff in between. I belong to a broad church that admits all levels and types of beliefs (well, at least as far as software is concerned). Open Source offerings have now reached a certain level of maturity that means they can compete with [The entire original message is not included] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Yes, and there is a tendency in silicon valley for software engineers to never grow out of their inability to acknowledge exactly how statistically rare and strange are their views. When everyone you run into is exactly the same as yourself, there are no social control rods to keep your weird ideas from spinning out of reasonable scope. So few of the engineers I know can ask the big questions about the evolution of complexity handling machinery. And the scientists have long sence left computer "science". That computation defines (despite any long range plan) more and more of the future means we are in trouble as a species. Big trouble. -Original Message- From: Richmond Mathewson Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 1:57 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue On 02/05/2010 11:31, René Micout wrote: > Le 2 mai 2010 à 00:44, Randall Lee Reetz a écrit : > >> It is largely an ayn rand anarchist after school club for all white mall >> arcade raised nerds lacking in any real vision. > Very difficult for a french to understand that ! > If English speaker dont speak English then "Je m'exprimerai en français sur > ce forum !" > ;-)___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > Ayn Rand was a Hungarian who became an American; she advocated an extremely crude form of anarcho-capitalism. Her books are 2-dimensional exercises in projecting her ideas that are extremely popular with the 20-30 set who have been through their left-wing phase and are now experiencing their backlash reaction. Once people realise how 2-dimensional her ideas are and how they fail to account (just as Marxism does) for the nature of humanity they move on; normally giving up adopting extreme political postures. ___ use-revolution mailing list [The entire original message is not included] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 2 May 2010, at 11:07, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: I am talking revolutionary innovations, not feature creep. It's not clear who you're responding to here, but if it was my remark about content-aware fill then you have no idea how revolutionary some examples of feature creep can be in their field. Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
The ayn rand-ers believe that consumers know enough to guide the direction of technology by voting at the apple app store or on amazon. But consumers can only choose from the current selection. People have a hard time imagining that which they can't hold in their hands right now. It is up to visionaries to innovate. Despite public opinion. I've used my computer for 25 years and it still has no idea who I am. If I haven't hit a key or touched the mouse button, it just sits there completely stupid-like. The power of a supercomputer in the role of typewriter. Ridiculous. Where are the open source projects that are attempting to actually evolve computing beyond typing and spreadsheets and watching tv? If the xtalk community was commuted to making sure that it was as amazing each year as hypercard was 25 years ago, I wouldn't feel so defeated or act so crotchity. Programming IS what it used to be... What a drag. -Original Message- From: Randall Lee Reetz Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:39 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue Yes, and there is a tendency in silicon valley for software engineers to never grow out of their inability to acknowledge exactly how statistically rare and strange are their views. When everyone you run into is exactly the same as yourself, there are no social control rods to keep your weird ideas from spinning out of reasonable scope. So few of the engineers I know can ask the big questions about the evolution of complexity handling machinery. And the scientists have long sence left computer "science". That computation defines (despite any long range plan) more and more of the future means we are in trouble as a species. Big trouble. -Original Message- From: Richmond Mathewson Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 1:57 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue On 02/05/2010 11:31, René Micout wrote: > Le 2 mai 2010 à 00:44, Randall Lee Reetz a écrit : > >> It is largely an ayn rand anarchist after school club for all white mall >> arcade raised nerds lacking in any real vision. > Very difficult for a french to understand that ! > If English speaker dont speak English then "Je m'exprimerai en français sur > ce forum !" > ;-)___ > use-revolution mailing list [The entire original message is not included] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
(I removed the poster's name from this quote because my post is not directed at the person, but the idea that we are all equal) The tribesmen also forget that they can topple their chieftains quite > easily; they wander around with their mouths > hanging open in awe of the mighty chief - forgetting that s/he is, > ultimately, no better than they are. > > Hmmm, and far too often one thinks of oneself as being just as good if not better than someone else, when everyone else knows that isn't the case. I've been biting my tongue, not responding to personal comments within this thread , just to outside links referred to, because simply put, this is like Apple vs Windows, God vs No God, Republican vs Democrat, everyone has already made up their mind, they'll voice their opinion and will blindly refuse to consider any other... except for one person on this list who I won't name. So, in the interest of not trying to appear to counter anyone's argument I will try to denigrate myself as much as possible. If you had $1,000,000 to wager, who would you bet against, me vs Michael Schumacher in a F1 race me vs Roger Federer in a Tennis Match me vs Tiger Woods in infidelity me vs Lee Kwan Yew in running a country me vs Valentino Rossi in a MotoGP me vs Lance Armstrong in a cycling race me vs Michael Phelps in a swim race me vs Mozart in writing a symphony me vs Leonardo da Vinci in painting a female portrait me vs Steve Jobs in running Apple? All your choices will be based on track record and the FACT that we are NOT EQUAL. That every single one of us is different and that for a very very few they are stand out extraordinary. This whole thread has been sidetracked into pointless discussion about the freedom to develop with this tool or that tool or use this format or that format and seems to bypass the freedom of Steve Jobs to run his company. So read that last challenge again, and read it exactly how it is written, and again decide who really is going to make more money with Apple. And just in case you are still deluded into believe that your comments are right, and therefore you would be better at running Apple than Steve is, I'm hereby asking all readers of this thread to put forward the name of that Poster who's arguments are so right that they believe they'd do a better job at running Apple than Steve - and you can't nominate yourself ;-) Personally, I'll sell all my Apple stock if tomorrow Steve steps down and hands over to any one of you ;-) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 2 May 2010, at 11:29, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: What I am frustrated with is the continual revisionist approach to software development... that photshop seemed great 20 years ago really doesn't mean we should still be subjected to it's awkwardness today. Which is why a lot of photographers now use LightRoom, Aperture or similar... Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Revolutionary? A supercomputer that has been trained to know where to paste a postal code? Doing alan turing proud! -Original Message- From: Ian Wood Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:57 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue On 2 May 2010, at 11:07, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: > I am talking revolutionary innovations, not feature creep. It's not clear who you're responding to here, but if it was my remark about content-aware fill then you have no idea how revolutionary some examples of feature creep can be in their field. Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 2 May 2010, at 12:06, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: Revolutionary? A supercomputer that has been trained to know where to paste a postal code? Doing alan turing proud! Please explain your comment. It makes no sense. :-( Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Are you kidding? These are revisionist applications exactly as I have noted. The only revolution in photo programs in the last 20 years is face recognition. But what has been done with it? Almost nothing. Is it available to rev programmers? Can it be generalized to learn any object? Does it get better as we all work with it? I can't wait for typewriter 10.8! -Original Message- From: Ian Wood Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 4:00 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue On 2 May 2010, at 11:29, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: > What I am frustrated with is the continual revisionist approach to > software development... that photshop seemed great 20 years ago > really doesn't mean we should still be subjected to it's awkwardness > today. Which is why a lot of photographers now use LightRoom, Aperture or similar... Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 2 May 2010, at 12:16, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: Are you kidding? No. These are revisionist applications exactly as I have noted. Again, I have no idea what you are talking about. The only revolution in photo programs in the last 20 years is face recognition. Why is facial recognition revolutionary, but content-aware fill, non- destructive/parametric adjustments etc. etc. *not* revolutionary? But what has been done with it? Almost nothing. What's 'almost nothing'? There are apps such as iPhoto which can auto- crop images to show just the faces, cameras which use facial recognition to choose where to focus or wait for the subject to smile to take the photo. At the moment you are just making yourself look ignorant. Is it available to rev programmers? As far as I know there are command-line apps around. Can it be generalized to learn any object? It's the other way around - facial recognition algorithms are mostly based on more general feature-recognition code (feature as in distinct areas of an image, not necessarily part of a face). Look up SIFT and similar stuff, it's what's revolutionised all kinds of panorama stitching and image alignment apps over the last 5-6 years. Does it get better as we all work with it? Yes, most software that includes facial recognition *only* works at a useable level by using user-confirmed results to improve the hit-rate. Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
(2 can play at that one) (I removed the poster's name from this quote because my post is not directed at the person, but the idea that we are all equal) No; of course we are not all equal. BUT we are all dependent on other people; no man is an island. Therefore the image of workers being exploited by socking great companies may not be all that useful. The tribesmen also forget that they can topple their chieftains quite easily; they wander around with their mouths hanging open in awe of the mighty chief - forgetting that s/he is, ultimately, no better than they are. Hmmm, and far too often one thinks of oneself as being just as good if not better than someone else, when everyone else knows that isn't the case. I am quite sure I could neither write a symphony or do what Steve Jobs does (luckily this doesn't make me feel that I have missed out on something), and in those respects Mozart and Jobs are better than me. What I am also aware of it that if parents of kids who attend my language school stop sending their kids; buying my product; the effect will be similar on a personal basis as if people stop buying Apple products on Jobs. So, however brilliant Jobs is at his work, and me at mine; if we don't keep the punters happy (whether they actually know anything about computers or EFL teaching or not) we are done for. Now I (like Jobs) offer a service, and if my client base don't like what I offer they can either bring pressure to bear to change or they can leave; therefore, while I know far more about teaching EFL than all the parents of the children I teach, I am, nevertheless, at their mercy. The problem, and it is a problem, is that people in some position of authority tend to forget how dependent on their clients they are, and clients forget that even though authority figures have acquired some sort of mysterious glow they are still essentially there to serve them. I sincerely hope that Jobs and the chap at Adobe are aware of how dependent they are just as much as I do. All it would take is for another respected authority figure (David Pogue ???) to rubbish the iPad and the shares would go into freefall. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 02/05/2010 14:12, Ian Wood wrote: On 2 May 2010, at 12:06, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: Revolutionary? A supercomputer that has been trained to know where to paste a postal code? Doing alan turing proud! Please explain your comment. It makes no sense. :-( His rarely do. I tend to wibble on; but you must at least allow that there is some method in my madness . . . :) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 02/05/2010 14:16, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: These are revisionist applications exactly as I have noted. The funny thing is that when I hear/see the word 'revisionist' it makes me think of Marxist critiques of Trotskyism and Holocaust deniers; neither of these meanings seem to line up with software applications. Another semantic shift perhaps; possibly only in Mr Reetz's private language ? Beam me up. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Equally difficult for this English-speaking American to understand. Best, Jerry Daniels Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off: http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch On May 2, 2010, at 3:31 AM, René Micout wrote: > > Le 2 mai 2010 à 00:44, Randall Lee Reetz a écrit : > >> It is largely an ayn rand anarchist after school club for all white mall >> arcade raised nerds lacking in any real vision. > > Very difficult for a french to understand that ! > If English speaker dont speak English then "Je m'exprimerai en français sur > ce forum !" > ;-)___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
There is, however, a back door to THE PLATFORM. I think I have found a way, but I need to test it. If it has merit I will commercialize it. Best, Jerry Daniels Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off: http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch On May 2, 2010, at 3:43 AM, René Micout wrote: > Yes, > And this is for me, now, at microscopic scale, the same thing with RunRev. > The difference is that I have not enough talent to master Objective C (and > English also !!) > ;-) > > Le 2 mai 2010 à 06:49, Jerry Daniels a écrit : > >> Great short article that I believe accurately describes the corporate >> culture behind Apple's platform lock down. >> >> Mark Bernstein: Platform Control >> >> http://www.markbernstein.org/Apr10/PlatformControl.html >> >> (via Instapaper) >> >> Best, >> >> Jerry Daniels >> >> Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off: >> http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch >> ___ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Wow. My feelings exactly. Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry -Original Message- From: Richmond Mathewson Date: Sun, 02 May 2010 11:57:31 To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue On 02/05/2010 11:31, René Micout wrote: > Le 2 mai 2010 à 00:44, Randall Lee Reetz a écrit : > >> It is largely an ayn rand anarchist after school club for all white mall >> arcade raised nerds lacking in any real vision. > Very difficult for a french to understand that ! > If English speaker dont speak English then "Je m'exprimerai en français sur > ce forum !" > ;-)___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > Ayn Rand was a Hungarian who became an American; she advocated an extremely crude form of anarcho-capitalism. Her books are 2-dimensional exercises in projecting her ideas that are extremely popular with the 20-30 set who have been through their left-wing phase and are now experiencing their backlash reaction. Once people realise how 2-dimensional her ideas are and how they fail to account (just as Marxism does) for the nature of humanity they move on; normally giving up adopting extreme political postures. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> > What I am frustrated with is the continual revisionist approach to > > software development... that photshop seemed great 20 years > ago really > > doesn't mean we should still be subjected to it's awkwardness today. > > Which is why a lot of photographers now use LightRoom, > Aperture or similar... There are a lot of older applications that do not follow modern guidelines - they pretty much predated the guidelines. The problem with older apps is that for all the users who get truly fed up with their arcane workflow, there are many, many others who have spent a decade perfecting their knowledge of how to do things with it. Vendors think twice about upsetting them. Think about institutional buyers who purchase several thousand units at at time, and then face the prospect of having to retrain their people. My software publishing company Mirye publishes a 3D application that was first released in 1986. I believe that pre-dates even MAX. But both Shade and MAX do things their own way, because there are so many people who would be very upset if they were changed to the core. What the Shade guys do though is add new functionality and UI and make it possible to turn them off, or reconfigure the UI in a way that you can stick to the old tried-and-true methods. And yeah, I never liked Photoshop, but really like Fireworks ;-) Best regards, Lynn Fredricks Mirye Software Publishing http://www.mirye.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
I don't want a chieftain but I like being a tribesman. The RunRev Tribe On May 2, 2010, at 5:47 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > On 02/05/2010 12:37, Pierre Sahores wrote: >> The way the present worldwide civil war acts vhere the monopolistic >> entreprises candidates are the fighters/armies and workers/peoples the >> victims. Until when ?... > > As I am not a left-winger I do not see a polarisation between workers and > monopolistic enterprises; after all, monopolistic > enterprises consist of people. > > The whole thing looks like an all-too human problem: people like to belong to > tribes, and tribes like to have chieftains. > > The trouble is that very, very few chieftains care about their tribesmen, and > forget that they are chieftains only at the > sufferance of their tribesmen. > > The tribesmen also forget that they can topple their chieftains quite easily; > they wander around with their mouths > hanging open in awe of the mighty chief - forgetting that s/he is, > ultimately, no better than they are. > >> Best Regards, >> >> Le 1 mai 2010 à 21:41, Richmond Mathewson a écrit : >> >>> Nonsense: there is nothing to choose between Apple, Microsoft and Adobe; >>> and Macromedia wasn't any better, but for companies to survive they have >>> to eat smaller ones. While simple Darwinian theory may not make all that >>> much sense for explaining biology it seems pretty good for describing >>> certain aspects of corporate behaviour. >>> >>> All these companies remind me of Hitler's Germany and Stalin's Russia: >>> sign a treaty of 'eternal friendship' for as long as it serves your needs >>> and >>> then turn around and kill each other's foot soldiers when the wind blows >>> the other way. >> -- >> Pierre Sahores >> mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70 >> >> www.wrds.com >> www.sahores-conseil.com >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ___ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription >> preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Really, the word "revisionist" is no longer to be used? There are quite a few words in the marxist cannon, in manifestos large and small by villains throughout history, are all of these words off limits? Should we wait until you inform us so that we might fall into line according to your word retirement program? Richard, I suggest that you refrain from grade school level arguments and argue points on the merits of their content. Your attempts at defamation are obvious and childish. You have been bullying this list for years. I have received numerous personal off-list emails by people who simply refuse to post after being subject on too many times to your personal attacks. Views on issues can be stated even in angry tones without attacking the character individuals who write in debate. Maybe you would prefer to make fun of my face or clothing? Should I post a picture? Maybe you would like to say something rude about my parents or where I live? Would that help shore up your arguments? Please. -Original Message- From: Richmond Mathewson Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 5:06 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue On 02/05/2010 14:16, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: > These are revisionist applications exactly as I have noted. The funny thing is that when I hear/see the word 'revisionist' it makes me think of Marxist critiques of Trotskyism and Holocaust deniers; neither of these meanings seem to line up with software applications. Another semantic shift perhaps; possibly only in Mr Reetz's private language ? Beam me up. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 02/05/2010 18:11, Thomas McGrath III wrote: I don't want a chieftain but I like being a tribesman. The RunRev Tribe Well then; isn't it time we heard something from the chief? On May 2, 2010, at 5:47 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: On 02/05/2010 12:37, Pierre Sahores wrote: The way the present worldwide civil war acts vhere the monopolistic entreprises candidates are the fighters/armies and workers/peoples the victims. Until when ?... As I am not a left-winger I do not see a polarisation between workers and monopolistic enterprises; after all, monopolistic enterprises consist of people. The whole thing looks like an all-too human problem: people like to belong to tribes, and tribes like to have chieftains. The trouble is that very, very few chieftains care about their tribesmen, and forget that they are chieftains only at the sufferance of their tribesmen. The tribesmen also forget that they can topple their chieftains quite easily; they wander around with their mouths hanging open in awe of the mighty chief - forgetting that s/he is, ultimately, no better than they are. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
LOL, I don't spend much time on this list anymore. The only reason I'm even reading this thread is I, too, out of the blue, received off-list messages regarding your incite full posts. And, I feel humbled in the presence of the only visionary thinker in the world with regard to software. I'm with you, Randall. I think we should pile up and burn all these pretender and derivative programs, like Photosop, Mathematica and Xcode-- hell, I could probably write any of these simplistic mind-numbing tools in a weekend with Rev (but only if I wish to waste valuable time which I could be pontificating the ininess, or lack thereof, of my navel). I suspect that like myself, you too believe Rev is the gateway to this newer, richer class of software where the computer ceases to be "a typewriter" and finally "knows who you are" and that is why you continue to post here in the use-revolution list and not on some politicorum. (great word-- just made it up, feel free to use it.) On Sunday, May 2, 2010, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: > I have received numerous personal off-list emails by people who simply refuse > to post after being subject on too many times to your personal attacks. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
And regarding the obvious and impending from Jacque-- Yes, of course it's an innie. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Adobe didn't conceive postscript, photshop, illustrator, flash, etc. Mathematica isn't derivative. Wolfram (for all I rail on his philosophy) is one of the last remaining computer scientists. I think there is something about the act of writing software the way we've been doing it that either strips the science out of us or keeps the scientists away. Wolfram is an interesting guy. His mathematica is like most of this first wave software simply a digital "analog" of a tool we did manually before. Yet at the same time, he actively promotes the idea of properties and tools unique to computation (his "new" kind of science). Anyway, this discussion was about steve jobs when I think it should be about adobe's all to familiar entrenchment approach to "innovation". This, once the disappointment and anger wears off is what has driven steve jobs into such unpopular and dangerous a stance. Like all tertiary species, runrev can only eat the debris that falls to the ocean floor. When xtalk was abandoned by apple, that was the day the music really died. -Original Message- From: Chipp Walters Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:36 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue LOL, I don't spend much time on this list anymore. The only reason I'm even reading this thread is I, too, out of the blue, received off-list messages regarding your incite full posts. And, I feel humbled in the presence of the only visionary thinker in the world with regard to software. I'm with you, Randall. I think we should pile up and burn all these pretender and derivative programs, like Photosop, Mathematica and Xcode-- hell, I could probably write any of these simplistic mind-numbing tools in a weekend with Rev (but only if I wish to waste valuable time which I could be pontificating the ininess, or lack thereof, of my navel). I suspect that like myself, you too believe Rev is the gateway to this newer, richer class of software where the computer ceases to be "a typewriter" and finally "knows who you are" and that is why you continue to post here in the use-revolution list and not on some politicorum. (great word-- just made it up, feel free to use it.) On Sunday, May 2, 2010, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: > I have received numerous personal off-list emails by people who simply refuse > to post after being subject on too many times to your personal > attacks___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 02/05/2010 20:07, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: Adobe didn't conceive postscript, photshop, illustrator, flash, etc. Mathematica isn't derivative. Wolfram (for all I rail on his philosophy) is one of the last remaining computer scientists. I think there is something about the act of writing software the way we've been doing it that either strips the science out of us or keeps the scientists away. Wolfram is an interesting guy. His mathematica is like most of this first wave software simply a digital "analog" of a tool we did manually before. Yet at the same time, he actively promotes the idea of properties and tools unique to computation (his "new" kind of science). Anyway, this discussion was about steve jobs when I think it should be about adobe's all to familiar entrenchment approach to "innovation". This, once the disappointment and anger wears off is what has driven steve jobs into such unpopular and dangerous a stance. Like all tertiary species, runrev can only eat the debris that falls to the ocean floor. When xtalk was abandoned by apple, that was the day the music really died. Fair point, Randall: "adobe's all to familiar entrenchment approach to "innovation" "; but that is a problem that tends to happen with ALL successful organisations (including Apple); they become complacent and slack off. Unfortunately, like it or not, the vast majority of folk use their computers as nothing more than typewriters and video-phones, home entertainment centres and mind-numbing devices; and, despite your ideals, and mine (however much they may differ; and I suspect not as much as you might think); it is again the old problem about who pays for the bread and cheese. -- About 3 hours ago my wife and I went for a walk in a park here in Plovdiv; from the hill in the centre of the park I could see 3 shopping malls under construction: I groaned. My wife then pointed out that if that was what the majority of people wanted then that is what they should get. I then pointed that a society where the 90% of the people are permanently glued to 'prole-feed' on the telly or the computer, and for their exercise went to cruise in the malls and mindlessly spend money have the vote was not really the sort of society I wanted to be a part of she agreed, but pointed out that there was precious little we could do about it. -- "When xtalk was abandoned by apple, that was the day the music really died. " All cultures hark back to a semi-mythical golden age, that on closer examination turns out to have been nothing of the sort. You should have been at the Edinburgh conference (apart from the fact that you and I might have been arrested for savaging each other); there was quite a considerable amount of 'music' and the air really was fizzing! -- "Like all tertiary species, runrev can only eat the debris that falls to the ocean floor. " I think that that is being a bit unkind. After all Runrev does work on Linux, where (despite your dislike for Open Source) there is more room for individual initiative and movement than in the relatively tightly controlled worlds of Mac and Windows. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On May 2, 2010, at 1:35 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > About 3 hours ago my wife and I went for a walk in a park here in Plovdiv; > from the hill in the centre of > the park I could see 3 shopping malls under construction: I groaned. My wife > then pointed out that if > that was what the majority of people wanted then that is what they should > get. I heard that Steve Jobs is opening a supermarket, and will sell a wide range of products. But he'll only stock products that are made from veggie burgers. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Randall Lee Reetz wrote: Are you kidding? These are revisionist applications exactly as I have noted. The only revolution in photo programs in the last 20 years is face recognition. But what has been done with it? Almost nothing. Is it available to rev programmers? Can it be generalized to learn any object? Does it get better as we all work with it? I can't wait for typewriter 10.8! There have been innumerable fiction stories written about computers that acquire AI. Be careful what you wish for. I even get irritated at spell checkers that try to complete my thoughts for me. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
If you follow the w3c you will notice a direction towards making a vector based description language the core of web graphics. That will leave adobe in the same position it has put all of its customers for years, the only option is to sell an IDE or editor that supports the web standard. Browsers will be able to naively unpack and display motion vector based video as per the world wide standard. Apple and microsoft are only too happy to push towards this agenda if only knock the village bully down. And it is about time. Anyone remember NAPALPS (i that how it was spelled?) the vector based content protocol the french and canadian web used? Its not like macromedia invented flash or its concept. -Original Message- From: Randall Lee Reetz Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:07 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue Adobe didn't conceive postscript, photshop, illustrator, flash, etc. Mathematica isn't derivative. Wolfram (for all I rail on his philosophy) is one of the last remaining computer scientists. I think there is something about the act of writing software the way we've been doing it that either strips the science out of us or keeps the scientists away. Wolfram is an interesting guy. His mathematica is like most of this first wave software simply a digital "analog" of a tool we did manually before. Yet at the same time, he actively promotes the idea of properties and tools unique to computation (his "new" kind of science). Anyway, this discussion was about steve jobs when I think it should be about adobe's all to familiar entrenchment approach to "innovation". This, once the disappointment and anger wears off is what has driven steve jobs into such unpopular and dangerous a stance. Like all tertiary species, runrev can only eat the debris that falls to the ocean floor. When xtalk was abandoned by apple, that was the day the music really died. -Original Message- From: Chipp Walters Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 9:36 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue LOL, I don't spend much time on this list anymore. [The entire original message is not included] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Ok, a real discussion. People choose the best choice available to them. The choices we in computerdom have offered are not exactly overwhelming in their scope. If my choice is between a horrible spreadsheet, a really snappy one, and a game that makes me feel like I full a fliing dinosaur world, guess what the royal I will choose. Can you blame me? As computers have become a million times faster software has become about three times better. That isn't a very proud ratio. The revolution to come is a revolution of self evolving software that never sleeps, is using the most hardware it can round up, and wants to learn so that it ca help us. That is the kind of jump in choice the public deserves. Until then, I cheer the public even if I am not always one of them. -Original Message- From: Richmond Mathewson Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:35 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue On 02/05/2010 20:07, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: > Adobe didn't conceive postscript, photshop, illustrator, flash, etc. > Mathematica isn't derivative. Wolfram (for all I rail on his philosophy) is > one of the last remaining computer scientists. I think there is something > about the act of writing software the way we've been doing it that either > strips the science out of us or keeps the scientists away. Wolfram is an > interesting guy. His mathematica is like most of this first wave software > simply a digital "analog" of a tool we did manually before. Yet at the same > time, he actively promotes the idea of properties and tools unique to > computation (his "new" kind of science). Anyway, this discussion was about > steve jobs when I think it should be about adobe's all to familiar > entrenchment approach to "innovation". This, once the disappointment and > anger wears off is what has driven steve jobs into such unpopular and > dangerous a stance. Like all tertiary species, runrev can only eat the > debris that falls to the ocean floor. When xtalk was abandoned by apple, > that was the day the music really died. > Fair point, Randall: "adobe's all to familiar entrenchment approach to "innovation" "; but that is a problem that tends to happen with ALL successful organisations (including Apple); they become complacent and slack off. Unfortunately, like it or not, the vast majority of folk use their computers as nothing more than typewriters and video-phones, home entertainment centres and mind-numbing devices; and, despite your ideals, and mine (however much they may differ; and I suspect not as much as you might think); it is again the old problem about who pays for the bread and cheese___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Yes, and what of vampires and the day we run out of batteries! The end is coming! -Original Message- From: J. Landman Gay Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:41 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue Randall Lee Reetz wrote: > Are you kidding? These are revisionist applications exactly as I > have noted. The only revolution in photo programs in the last 20 > years is face recognition. But what has been done with it? Almost > nothing. Is it available to rev programmers? Can it be generalized > to learn any object? Does it get better as we all work with it? I > can't wait for typewriter 10.8! There have been innumerable fiction stories written about computers that acquire AI. Be careful what you wish for. I even get irritated at spell checkers that try to complete my thoughts for me. -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Ok, a real discussion. People choose the best choice available to them. The choices we in computerdom have offered are not exactly overwhelming in their scope. If my choice is between a horrible spreadsheet, a really snappy one, and a game that makes me feel like I rule a flying dinosaur world with angelena jolee, guess what the royal "I" will always choose. Can you blame "me"? As computers have become a million times faster software has become about three times better. That isn't a very proud ratio. The revolution to come is a revolution of self evolving software that never sleeps, is using the most hardware it can round up, and wants to learn so that it can help us. That is the kind of jump in choice the public deserves. Until then, I cheer the public even if I am not always one of them. -Original Message- From: Richmond Mathewson Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 10:35 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue On 02/05/2010 20:07, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: > Adobe didn't conceive postscript, photshop, illustrator, flash, etc. > Mathematica isn't derivative. Wolfram (for all I rail on his philosophy) is > one of the last remaining computer scientists. I think there is something > about the act of writing software the way we've been doing it that either > strips the science out of us or keeps the scientists away. Wolfram is an > interesting guy. His mathematica is like most of this first wave software > simply a digital "analog" of a tool we did manually before. Yet at the same t [The entire original message is not included] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Chipp Walters wrote: And regarding the obvious and impending from Jacque-- Yes, of course it's an innie. LOL! I wouldn't presume to ask. :) On the other hand, we only have your word for it... -- Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com HyperActive Software | http://www.hyperactivesw.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
>The only reason I'm even reading this thread is I, too, out of > the blue, received off-list messages regarding your incite full > posts. And, I feel humbled in the presence of the only > visionary thinker in the world with regard to software. I typically avoid participation in threads like this, but I just have to this time around... Outside of the "knee deep in B.S." factor, I find it a bit unusual for such to be spewed forth from a "visionary" who's web site currently has the following content: rhetoric - under construction ideas - under construction future - under construction ...a tad bit of food for thought. Regards, David C. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Personal attacks again? Really, you need to substitute that 7 year old crap for a genuine statement of content? And you don't think people see it for what it is? Is it because the teacher left the room? Is that the level of morality you have achieved? So, how about some content? A substantive rebuttal? Putting your ideas out there for all to see? -Original Message- From: David C. Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 11:15 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue >The only reason I'm even reading this thread is I, too, out of > the blue, received off-list messages regarding your incite full > posts. And, I feel humbled in the presence of the only > visionary thinker in the world with regard to software. I typically avoid participation in threads like this, but I just have to this time around... Outside of the "knee deep in B.S." factor, I find it a bit unusual for such to be spewed forth from a "visionary" who's web site currently has the following content: rhetoric - under construction ideas - under construction future - under construction ...a tad bit of food for thought. Regards, David C. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution [The entire original message is not included] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 02/05/2010 22:13, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: Personal attacks again? Really, you need to substitute that 7 year old crap for a genuine statement of content? And you don't think people see it for what it is? Is it because the teacher left the room? Is that the level of morality you have achieved? So, how about some content? A substantive rebuttal? Putting your ideas out there for all to see? -Original Message- From: David C. Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 11:15 AM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue The only reason I'm even reading this thread is I, too, out of the blue, received off-list messages regarding your incite full posts. And, I feel humbled in the presence of the only visionary thinker in the world with regard to software. I typically avoid participation in threads like this, but I just have to this time around... Outside of the "knee deep in B.S." factor, I find it a bit unusual for such to be spewed forth from a "visionary" who's web site currently has the following content: rhetoric - under construction ideas - under construction future - under construction ...a tad bit of food for thought. Regards, David C. Thanks, David, for pointing the way to Randall's website; I enjoyed my visit there, and I am sure many other people would. I found it helped to contextualise a lot what Randall writes about. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
How about my blog: http://www.complexitymetric.blogspot.com -Original Message- From: Richmond Mathewson Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 12:17 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue On 02/05/2010 22:13, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: > Personal attacks again? Really, you need to substitute that 7 year old crap > for a genuine statement of content? And you don't think people see it for > what it is? Is it because the teacher left the room? Is that the level of > morality you have achieved? So, how about some content? A substantive > rebuttal? Putting your ideas out there for all to see? > > -Original Message- > From: David C. > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 11:15 AM > To: How to use Revolution > Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue > >> The only reason I'm even reading this thread is I, too, out of >> the blue, received off-list messages regarding your incite full >> posts. And, I feel humbled in the presence of the only >> visionary thinker in the world with regard to software. > I typically avoid participation in threads like this, but I just have > to this time around... > > Outside of the "knee deep in B.S." factor, I find it a bit unusual for > such to be spewed forth from a "visionary" who's web site currently > has the following content: > > rhetoric - under construction > ideas - under construction > future - under construction > > ...a tad bit of food for thought. > > Regards, > David C. Thanks, David, for pointing the way to Randall's website; I enjoyed my visit there, and I am sure many other people would. I found it helped to contextualise a lot what Randall writes about. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 2 May 2010, at 20:13, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: So, how about some content? A substantive rebuttal? Putting your ideas out there for all to see? How about replying to direct questions asked of you, for instance why facial recognition is revolutionary but content-aware fill isn't? Or why the examples of things facial recognition is being used for *now* in consumer products is 'Almost nothing'. It would also be useful if you could explain what you mean by revisionist applications. I *assume* you are talking about apps that are evolutionary rather than revolutionary in how they change what people do with them, but it's not clear and 'revisionist' has some very specific connotations. Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
> Personal attacks again? Well, it really wasn't intended as a personal attack exactly... I don't even know ya and really don't care about the subject matter. It was more of a poorly judged stab at some off the wall humor. Regards, David C. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Driving right now so will answer your questions as soon as I am out of my car. -Original Message- From: Ian Wood Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 12:32 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue On 2 May 2010, at 20:13, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: > So, how about some content? A substantive rebuttal? Putting your > ideas out there for all to see? How about replying to direct questions asked of you, for instance why facial recognition is revolutionary but content-aware fill isn't? Or why the examples of things facial recognition is being used for *now* in consumer products is 'Almost nothing'. It would also be useful if you could explain what you mean by revisionist applications. I *assume* you are talking about apps that are evolutionary rather than revolutionary in how they change what people do with them, but it's not clear and 'revisionist' has some very specific connotations. Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Right, I believe you... -Original Message- From: David C. Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 12:39 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue > Personal attacks again? Well, it really wasn't intended as a personal attack exactly... I don't even know ya and really don't care about the subject matter. It was more of a poorly judged stab at some off the wall humor. Regards, David C. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 02/05/2010 22:39, David C. wrote: Personal attacks again? Well, it really wasn't intended as a personal attack exactly... I don't even know ya and really don't care about the subject matter. It was more of a poorly judged stab at some off the wall humor. I have a funny feeling that some people, when they feel that they are in a logical corner, or their particular viewpoint is under-appreciated, instead of either getting on with something else, finding a better argument to justify their viewpoint, admitting they were wrong, or whatever, react by calling a disagreement a personal attack. having a fairly robust ego myself I don't do this; I go away and make a salad, wash the dishes, drink a cup of coffee, go for a walk; and calm down and, normally find out that just about 50% of what I percieved to be problematic is my fault. Or I just laugh the whole thing off by making some daft joke on the Use-List . . . anybody for a purple dinosaur . . . or 2 ??? If one indulges in whacky humour then should realise that: 1. Not everyone will share your deep sense of fun. 2. You are going to get 'poo' thrown back at you sooner or later. But, hey; I teach primary kids from 7 to 13 and constantly have 'poo' thrown at me: it is my "bread and butter" my lovelies. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 02/05/2010 22:40, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: Driving right now so will answer your questions as soon as I am out of my car. That sounds fairly dangerous: answering e-mails while driving. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
And what is the disagreement? Is it making fun of an abandoned web site? -Original Message- From: Richmond Mathewson Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 12:48 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue On 02/05/2010 22:39, David C. wrote: >> Personal attacks again? > Well, it really wasn't intended as a personal attack exactly... > I don't even know ya and really don't care about the subject matter. > > It was more of a poorly judged stab at some off the wall humor. > I have a funny feeling that some people, when they feel that they are in a logical corner, or their particular viewpoint is under-appreciated, instead of either getting on with something else, finding a better argument to justify their viewpoint, admitting they were wrong, or whatever, react by calling a disagreement a personal attack. having a fairly robust ego myself I don't do this; I go away and make a salad, wash the dishes, drink a cup of coffee, go for a walk; and calm down and, normally find out that just about 50% of what I percieved to be problematic is my fault. Or I just laugh the whole thing off by making some daft joke on the Use-List . . . anybody for a purple dinosaur . . . or 2 ??? If one indulges in whacky humour then should realise that: 1. Not everyone will share your deep sense of fun. 2. You are going to get 'poo' thrown back at you sooner or later. [The entire original message is not included] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Is this the topic? Really? All you can come up with? Nasty childish nitpicking? Yes emailing is dangerous while driving. I wrote that note at a gas station while filling my tank. Now at cafe and ready to respond to substantive questions and comments. On May 2, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > On 02/05/2010 22:40, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: >> Driving right now so will answer your questions as soon as I am out of my >> car. >> > > That sounds fairly dangerous: answering e-mails while driving. > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Sad. On May 2, 2010, at 12:17 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > On 02/05/2010 22:13, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: >> Personal attacks again? Really, you need to substitute that 7 year old crap >> for a genuine statement of content? And you don't think people see it for >> what it is? Is it because the teacher left the room? Is that the level of >> morality you have achieved? So, how about some content? A substantive >> rebuttal? Putting your ideas out there for all to see? >> >> -Original Message- >> From: David C. >> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 11:15 AM >> To: How to use Revolution >> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue >> >>> The only reason I'm even reading this thread is I, too, out of >>> the blue, received off-list messages regarding your incite full >>> posts. And, I feel humbled in the presence of the only >>> visionary thinker in the world with regard to software. >> I typically avoid participation in threads like this, but I just have >> to this time around... >> >> Outside of the "knee deep in B.S." factor, I find it a bit unusual for >> such to be spewed forth from a "visionary" who's web site currently >> has the following content: >> >> rhetoric - under construction >> ideas - under construction >> future - under construction >> >> ...a tad bit of food for thought. >> >> Regards, >> David C. > > Thanks, David, for pointing the way to Randall's website; I enjoyed my visit > there, > and I am sure many other people would. I found it helped to contextualise a > lot > what Randall writes about. > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
How about my blog: "http:www.complexitymetric.blogspot.com". I certainly don't shy away from making authentic statements and asking the big questions. All of my work is standard model compliant and in agreement with all known laws of physics. If you want to argue with me you will need to show how I have missapplied these laws or how the laws themselves are wrong. Randall On May 2, 2010, at 11:15 AM, David C. wrote: >> The only reason I'm even reading this thread is I, too, out of >> the blue, received off-list messages regarding your incite full >> posts. And, I feel humbled in the presence of the only >> visionary thinker in the world with regard to software. > > I typically avoid participation in threads like this, but I just have > to this time around... > > Outside of the "knee deep in B.S." factor, I find it a bit unusual for > such to be spewed forth from a "visionary" who's web site currently > has the following content: > > rhetoric - under construction > ideas - under construction > future - under construction > > ...a tad bit of food for thought. > > Regards, > David C. > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
On 2 May 2010, at 21:24, Randall Reetz wrote: Now at cafe and ready to respond to substantive questions and comments. So what's stopping you? Why not start with explaining why facial recognition is the only revolution in photo programs in two decades? Ian ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
COMPLEXITY EXISTS ONLY TO INCREASES DISORDER. EVOLUTION IS THE REFINEMENT OF A FITNESS METRIC. IT IS THE PROCESS OF REFINING A CRITERIA FOR THE MEASUREMENT OF THE CAPACITY OF A SYSTEM TO MAXIMIZE ITS FUTURE POTENTIAL TO HOLD COMPLEXITY. THIS METRIC BECOMES EVER MORE SOPHISTICATED, AND CAN NEVER BE PREDETERMINED. I'm not sure what the big question is there, but it's certainly an authentic statement, directly from the header of your blog. I shall not poke fun at it as I'm sure it's a babelfish translation from some Paleolithic scribblings on a cave wall somewhere in southwestern France. It's clearly beyond my limited scope of understanding. On Sunday, May 2, 2010, Randall Reetz wrote: > How about my blog: "http:www.complexitymetric.blogspot.com". I certainly > don't shy away from making authentic statements and asking the big questions. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Randall Reetz' robust ego wrote: > Is this the topic? Really? All you can come up with? Nasty > childish nitpicking? Yes emailing is dangerous while driving. > I wrote that note at a gas station while filling my tank. Now > at cafe and ready to respond to substantive questions and comments. > > On May 2, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > >> On 02/05/2010 22:40, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: >>> Driving right now so will answer your questions as soon as I am out of my car. >>> >> >> That sounds fairly dangerous: answering e-mails while driving. if "Driving right now" is not "I wrote that note at a gas station" then put "The author, or his robust ego cares very little about anything beyond fueling that ego with negative attention and wasted bandwidth on tangents that are far removed from the topic" closeTopic else put "This is childish nitpicking, NOT!" -- he uses the word 'childish' alot too, although if someone were to -- be seriously injured by responding to email while driving, -- I doubt whether that ego would be shaken in the least end if on closeTopic put "This topic is badly in need of the presence of the List Mum" end closeTopic Posted mostly in fun, but in part by getting annoyed with how far off-topic this thread has drifted. ~Roger Eller ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
OK, Ian, I promised I would respond and here goes. Sorry I didn't before, I had assumed your questions were rhetorical. When I say that software hasn't changed I mean to say that it hasn't jumped qualitative categories. We are still living in a world where computing exists as pre-written and compiled software that is blindly executed by machines and stacked foundational code that has no idea what it is processing, can only process linearly, all semantics have been stripped, it doesn't learn from experience or react to context unless this too has been pre-codified and frozen in binary or byte code, etc. etc etc. Hardware has been souped up. So our little wrote tricks can be made more elaborate within the substantial confines mentioned. These same in-paradigm restrictions apply to both the software users slog through and the software we use to write software. As a result, these very plastic machines with mercurial potential are reduced to simple players that react to user interrupts. They are sequencing systems, not unlike the lead type setting racks of Guttenburg-era printing presses. Sure we have taught them some interesting seeming tricks – if you can represent something as digital media, be it sound, video, multi-dimentional graph space, markup – our sequencer doesn't know enough to care. Current processors are capable of 6.5 million instructions per second but are used less than a billionth of available cycles by the standard users running standard software.The current paradigm absolutely abhors processor access not initiated by user input. But even if it had the inclination to get some work down on its own… what would it do? It doesn't know anything about anything so deciding what to do as the day progresses is impossible. As regards photo editing software, anyone aware of the history of image processing will recognize that most of the stuff seen in photoshop and other programs was proposed and executed on systems long before some guys in france democratized these algorithms for consumer use and had their code acquired by adobe. It used to be called array arithmetic and applied smoothly to images divided up into a grid of pixels. None of these systems "see" an image for its content except as an array of numbers that can be crunched sequentially like a spread sheet. It was only when object recognition concepts were applied to photos that any kind of compositional grammar could be extracted from an image and compared as parts to other images similarly decomposed. This is a form of semantic processing and has its parallels in other media like text parsers and sound analysis software. Semantics opens the door to the building of systems that "understand" the content they process. That is the promised second revolution in computation that really hasn't seen any practical light of day as of yet. Data mining really isn't semantically mindful, simply uses statistical reduction mechanisms to guess at the existence of the location of pattern ( a good first step but missing the grammatical hierarchy necessary to work towards a self optimized and domain independent ability to detect and represent salience in the stacked grammar that makes up any complex system. Such systems will need to work all of the time. ALL OF THE TIME! Only pausing momentarily to pay attention to our interactions as needed. Once they are running, these systems will subsume all of the manual activity we have been made to perform to this day. Think "fly by wire" for processing. Gone is the need to discreetly encode every single bit in exactly the only possible sequence. We simply wont be able to know what bits are being processed, who or what made them, and more importantly, we won't have to care. What it means is the difference between writing a letter and our computer interceding by understanding the meta-intent of the wrote and inefficient processes we engage in today – what are letters for? What resources is this user or entity after and why? Who has those resources? Whom of those who have the desired resources need something that we might have in exchange? How are the vectors of intent among all entities entangled and grouped and how can our systems work towards the optimization of this global intent matrix? So, when I use the word "revisionist" I am calling attention to the old sheep dressed up in new clothing but still being sheep. Software feature creep is not really evolving software. As the good programmers at REV know, most of the work to maintain a product is incurred just keeping current of changes in the OS substrate on which they run. This rarely results in qualitative paradigm jumps. That the jump is so long in coming is understandable. It is easy to send a punch card through a machine and have it react accordingly every time. The jump from wrote execution of static code to self aware semantically self optimized pattern engines i
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Randall, Take it up with this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Lenat He's spent thirty-five years thinking about the same issues. --- On Sun, 5/2/10, Randall Reetz wrote: > From: Randall Reetz > Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue > To: "How to use Revolution" > Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 4:39 PM > OK, Ian, I promised I would respond > and here goes. Sorry I didn't before, I had assumed > your questions were rhetorical. > > When I say that software hasn't changed I mean to say that > it hasn't jumped qualitative categories. We are still > living in a world where computing exists as pre-written and > compiled software that is blindly executed by machines and > stacked foundational code that has no idea what it is > processing, can only process linearly, all semantics have > been stripped, it doesn't learn from experience or react to > context unless this too has been pre-codified and frozen in > binary or byte code, etc. etc etc. Hardware has been > souped up. So our little wrote tricks can be made more > elaborate within the substantial confines mentioned. > These same in-paradigm restrictions apply to both the > software users slog through and the software we use to write > software. > > As a result, these very plastic machines with mercurial > potential are reduced to simple players that react to user > interrupts. They are sequencing systems, not unlike > the lead type setting racks of Guttenburg-era printing > presses. Sure we have taught them some interesting > seeming tricks – if you can represent something as digital > media, be it sound, video, multi-dimentional graph space, > markup – our sequencer doesn't know enough to care. > > Current processors are capable of 6.5 million instructions > per second but are used less than a billionth of available > cycles by the standard users running standard > software. The current paradigm absolutely > abhors processor access not initiated by user input. > But even if it had the inclination to get some work down on > its own… what would it do? It doesn't know anything > about anything so deciding what to do as the day progresses > is impossible. > > As regards photo editing software, anyone aware of the > history of image processing will recognize that most of the > stuff seen in photoshop and other programs was proposed and > executed on systems long before some guys in france > democratized these algorithms for consumer use and had their > code acquired by adobe. It used to be called array > arithmetic and applied smoothly to images divided up into a > grid of pixels. None of these systems "see" an image > for its content except as an array of numbers that can be > crunched sequentially like a spread sheet. > > It was only when object recognition concepts were applied > to photos that any kind of compositional grammar could be > extracted from an image and compared as parts to other > images similarly decomposed. This is a form of > semantic processing and has its parallels in other media > like text parsers and sound analysis software. > > Semantics opens the door to the building of systems that > "understand" the content they process. That is the > promised second revolution in computation that really hasn't > seen any practical light of day as of yet. Data mining > really isn't semantically mindful, simply uses statistical > reduction mechanisms to guess at the existence of the > location of pattern ( a good first step but missing the > grammatical hierarchy necessary to work towards a self > optimized and domain independent ability to detect and > represent salience in the stacked grammar that makes up any > complex system. > > Such systems will need to work all of the time. ALL > OF THE TIME! Only pausing momentarily to pay attention > to our interactions as needed. Once they are running, > these systems will subsume all of the manual activity we > have been made to perform to this day. Think "fly by > wire" for processing. Gone is the need to discreetly > encode every single bit in exactly the only possible > sequence. We simply wont be able to know what bits are > being processed, who or what made them, and more > importantly, we won't have to care. > > What it means is the difference between writing a letter > and our computer interceding by understanding the > meta-intent of the wrote and inefficient processes we engage > in today – what are letters for? What resources is > this user or entity after and why? Who has those > resources? Whom of those who have the desired > resources need something that we might have in > e
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
I'm not sure what the etiquette of this board is or if there's a moderator, but surely this thing has wandered far off anything remotely to do with Revolution and taken up way too much space. Can we get back to Revolution related topics? Pete Haworth ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Yes, thanks, there are a few of us stretching back to babbage (even voltair), and more recently and more succinctly by schrodinger in his seminal "what is life" essay. -Original Message- From: Michael Kann Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:08 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue Randall, Take it up with this guy: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Douglas_Lenat He's spent thirty-five years thinking about the same issues. --- On Sun, 5/2/10, Randall Reetz wrote: > From: Randall Reetz > Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue > To: "How to use Revolution" > Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 4:39 PM > OK, Ian, I promised I would respond > and here goes. Sorry I didn't before, I had assumed > your questions were rhetorical. > > When I say that software hasn't changed I mean to say that > it hasn't jumped qualitative categories. We are still > living in a world where computing exists as pre-written and > compiled software that is blindly executed by machines and > stacked foundational code that has no idea what it is > processing, can only process linearly, all semantics have > been stripped, it doesn't learn from experience or react to > context unless this too has been pre-codified and frozen in > binary or byte code, etc. etc etc. Hardware has been > souped up. So our little wrote tricks can be made more > elaborate within the substantial confines mentioned. > These same in-paradigm restrictions apply to both the > software users slog through and the software we use to write > software. > > As a result, these very plastic machines with mercurial > potential are reduced to simple players that react to user > interrupts. They are sequencing systems, not unlike > the lead type setting racks of Guttenburg-era printing > presses. Sure we have taught them some interesting > seeming tricks – if you can represent something as digital > media, be it sound, video, multi-dimentional graph space, > markup – our sequencer doesn't know enough to care. > > Current [The entire original message is not included] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Ok, but know that apple and adobe and microsoft are dealing with this issue in the context of these big-future projections. Google too. The old paradigm is well past its its viable life span and there is nothing but russian rockets left to heft us into place while we wait for the new. -Original Message- From: Peter Haworth Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:28 PM To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue I'm not sure what the etiquette of this board is or if there's a moderator, but surely this thing has wandered far off anything remotely to do with Revolution and taken up way too much space. Can we get back to Revolution related topics? Pete Haworth ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Randall, What do you want to see software do? Please be succinct. Give a handful of examples of what you envision happening when you sit down at a computer. Real terms. No philosophy. I'm not trying to disrespect you here, I just don't fully comprehend what your vision is for software, and how that will make the computing world (and world) a better place. Thanks, Mark On May 2, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: > Ok, but know that apple and adobe and microsoft are dealing with this issue > in the context of these big-future projections. Google too. The old > paradigm is well past its its viable life span and there is nothing but > russian rockets left to heft us into place while we wait for the new. > > -Original Message- > From: Peter Haworth > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:28 PM > To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue > > I'm not sure what the etiquette of this board is or if there's a > moderator, but surely this thing has wandered far off anything > remotely to do with Revolution and taken up way too much space. Can > we get back to Revolution related topics? > > Pete Haworth > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Really, all YOU can do is nitpick? No content? What pisses you off is that I care enough to think hard and long on these issues in context? I didn't start this thread. It went on and on and on as simplistic and "childish" woe is me, steve is the devil manner until I felt I had to step in and put the tantrum under the lens of reality bigger than our shared disappointment and frustration. Everyone loves the simplicity and lynch-mob hysteria of a "tea party" cheering session. Except I guess me. If by ego you mean having the balls to think original thoughts and voice them at the risk of this constant chorus of "you make us look bad when you actually care", well you are right and it is worth everything you can throw at me to know what an authentic life feels like. I only wish you had one. Then we could engage in a conversation of more meaning and substance. -Original Message- From: roger.e.el...@sealedair.com Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 2:35 PM To: How to use Revolution Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue Randall Reetz' robust ego wrote: > Is this the topic? Really? All you can come up with? Nasty > childish nitpicking? Yes emailing is dangerous while driving. > I wrote that note at a gas station while filling my tank. Now > at cafe and ready to respond to substantive questions and comments. > > On May 2, 2010, at 12:49 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: > >> On 02/05/2010 22:40, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: >>> Driving right now so will answer your questions as soon as I am out of my car. >>> >> >> That sounds fairly dangerous: answering e-mails while driving. if "Driving right now" is not "I wrote that note at a gas station" then put "The author, or his robust ego cares very little about anything beyond fueling that ego with negative attention and wasted bandwidth on tangents that are far removed from the topic" closeTopic else put "This is childish nitpicking, NOT!" -- he uses the word 'childish' alot too, although if someone were to -- be seriously injured by responding to email while driving, -- I doubt whether that ego would be shaken in the least end if [The entire original message is not included] ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
As I read what Randall proposes, you won't "sit down at a computer." The computer will have enough knowledge of the world to work full-time making the world a better place. Every so often it will sit down with a human to explain what it has discovered and what the human can do to help. --- On Sun, 5/2/10, Mark Swindell wrote: > From: Mark Swindell > Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue > To: "How to use Revolution" > Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 5:58 PM > Randall, > > What do you want to see software do? Please be > succinct. Give a handful of examples of what you > envision happening when you sit down at a computer. > Real terms. No philosophy. I'm not trying to > disrespect you here, I just don't fully comprehend what your > vision is for software, and how that will make the computing > world (and world) a better place. > > Thanks, > Mark > > > > On May 2, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: > > > Ok, but know that apple and adobe and microsoft are > dealing with this issue in the context of these big-future > projections. Google too. The old paradigm is > well past its its viable life span and there is nothing but > russian rockets left to heft us into place while we wait for > the new. > > > > -Original Message----- > > From: Peter Haworth > > Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:28 PM > > To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > > Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash > issue > > > > I'm not sure what the etiquette of this board is or if > there's a > > moderator, but surely this thing has wandered far off > anything > > remotely to do with Revolution and taken up way too > much space. Can > > we get back to Revolution related topics? > > > > Pete Haworth > > > > ___ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and > manage your subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > > > > > ___ > > use-revolution mailing list > > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and > manage your subscription preferences: > > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage > your subscription preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution > ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue
Maybe, but I suspect Randall has some ideas that I'd really like to hear about. For the life of me, I have a hard time deciphering what they are. But I'd like to hear about them, in simplest terms, without ambiguity. Mark On May 2, 2010, at 4:07 PM, Michael Kann wrote: > As I read what Randall proposes, you won't "sit down at a computer." The > computer will have enough knowledge of the world to work full-time making the > world a better place. Every so often it will sit down with a human to explain > what it has discovered and what the human can do to help. > > > --- On Sun, 5/2/10, Mark Swindell wrote: > >> From: Mark Swindell >> Subject: Re: Apples actual response to the Flash issue >> To: "How to use Revolution" >> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 5:58 PM >> Randall, >> >> What do you want to see software do? Please be >> succinct. Give a handful of examples of what you >> envision happening when you sit down at a computer. >> Real terms. No philosophy. I'm not trying to >> disrespect you here, I just don't fully comprehend what your >> vision is for software, and how that will make the computing >> world (and world) a better place. >> >> Thanks, >> Mark >> >> >> >> On May 2, 2010, at 3:36 PM, Randall Lee Reetz wrote: >> >>> Ok, but know that apple and adobe and microsoft are >> dealing with this issue in the context of these big-future >> projections. Google too. The old paradigm is >> well past its its viable life span and there is nothing but >> russian rockets left to heft us into place while we wait for >> the new. >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: Peter Haworth >>> Sent: Sunday, May 02, 2010 3:28 PM >>> To: use-revolution@lists.runrev.com >>> Subject: RE: Apples actual response to the Flash >> issue >>> >>> I'm not sure what the etiquette of this board is or if >> there's a >>> moderator, but surely this thing has wandered far off >> anything >>> remotely to do with Revolution and taken up way too >> much space. Can >>> we get back to Revolution related topics? >>> >>> Pete Haworth >>> >>> ___ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and >> manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> use-revolution mailing list >>> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com >>> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and >> manage your subscription preferences: >>> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> >> ___ >> use-revolution mailing list >> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com >> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage >> your subscription preferences: >> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution >> > > > > ___ > use-revolution mailing list > use-revolution@lists.runrev.com > Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription > preferences: > http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
