Re: My naming convention

2010-07-11 Thread Richmond

On 07/11/2010 11:15 PM, Francis Nugent Dixon wrote:



As I haven't written programs in a REAL
development environment


What, pray tell, do you mean by "a REAL development environment" ?

I hope that that does not imply that you think that RunRev is NOT . . . .





Question ! How many of you out there would be
ashamed to show your coding to others ?


Err . . . where is the virtual confession box?

Mind you, I don't know how anybody can be so full of themselves
to pronounce absolution on us crappy coders. And what sort of penances
are they going to be ladling out?


I know that I ALWAYS was !

This may be a vital question.

I'm up to 4 cents now. I may go to 6 . !


Probably 108 ! But leading all of us to the confession box may mean that
you are storing up treasure in RunRev heaven like nobody's business.

If you imagine that I am going to run around in a hairshirt or sackcloth 
and ashes
just because my programming looks like a pig's breakfast you have 
another thing
coming; especially as I have managed to put my oar in so many other 
places that
when the time comes those who sort these sorts of things out are going 
to end up

with bust scales because of my karmic backlog without even taking my ghastly
coding into consideration . . .  :)



-Francis



As you say you have largely given up coding I've heard there is a job 
going as

the "Torquemada" of the coding police; as those happy chaps said many, many
years ago

http://people.csail.mit.edu/paulfitz/spanish/script.html

 "Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition" or "The Comfy Chair" . . .  :)
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RE: My naming convention

2010-07-11 Thread Francis Nugent Dixon

Hi from Beautiful Brittany
(although we will have rain in two days !)

Richmond :

I agree with you (mostly)

David C :

Thanks for that comment! It's gratifying.

Rene  Micout (excuse me if I wax into French) :

Je ne peux pas être plus en accord avec toi - Pour
dire vrai, je voulais secouer le pommier. Bien
sur je veux écrire le plus beau code du monde, et
je sais que je serais depassé par beaucoup sur ce
forum. Mais j'écris chaque script comme si on allait
le publier dans le Monde (avec amour et fierté)

 pour personne (sniff !)

Damien :

As I haven't written programs in a REAL
development environment for more than 20 years,
I  tend to forget that conventions ARE important.
So I will give you that (freely !).

I once had to update a program written by
a novice (however intelligent), and it was
his first program. He named all his variables
starting with his wife, and proceeding through
the whole of the family, before running out
of names, and so using CHINESE names.

Needless to say, I bailed out !

HOWEVER, without using a complex naming
convention, and using only intelligent
names, which after all, IS THE SIGN OF A
RELATIVELY ORGANIZED MIND, I still reckon
that a comment beats this system.

After more than 40 years of programming,
(20 for the business, and 20 for my pleasure),
I still put a comment on practically EACH line
of coding - although NOBODY will ever see them.

I also remember writing my first professional
program (1967 - in IBM 360 autocoder), and
returning to the Document Library more than 12
months later, to replace my (what I thought)
pathetic programming with a new version, 'cos
I was so ashamed.

Question ! How many of you out there would be
ashamed to show your coding to others ?

I know that I ALWAYS was !

This may be a vital question.

I'm up to 4 cents now. I may go to 6 . !

-Francis

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Re: My naming convention

2010-07-11 Thread zryip theSlug
2010/7/11 J. Landman Gay :

> The problem is that you are not thinking hard enough about what should
> happen. Rev is telepathic and you need to concentrate.

The last time I tried, I squinted during 2 months, which is very
disabling for a slug.



-- 
-Zryip TheSlug- wish you the best! 8)
http://www.aslugontheroad.co.cc
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Re: My naming convention

2010-07-11 Thread J. Landman Gay

zryip theSlug wrote:


I'm using no naming convention.
I develop stacks with no variables, no handlers and no functions.
I only put objects in a card, drawing circles, rectangles and other
complex forms.

That's way I have never bugs in my stacks.

The next I have to understand now is why, when I'm clicking on a
button, nothing happens!


The problem is that you are not thinking hard enough about what should 
happen. Rev is telepathic and you need to concentrate.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: My naming convention

2010-07-11 Thread René Micout
:-)

Le 11 juil. 2010 à 15:08, zryip theSlug a écrit :

> I'm using no naming convention.
> I develop stacks with no variables, no handlers and no functions.
> I only put objects in a card, drawing circles, rectangles and other
> complex forms.
> 
> That's way I have never bugs in my stacks.
> 
> The next I have to understand now is why, when I'm clicking on a
> button, nothing happens!
> 
> --
> -Zryip TheSlug- wish you the best! 8)
> http://www.aslugontheroad.co.cc
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Re: My naming convention

2010-07-11 Thread Richmond

On 07/11/2010 04:08 PM, zryip theSlug wrote:

I'm using no naming convention.
I develop stacks with no variables, no handlers and no functions.
I only put objects in a card, drawing circles, rectangles and other
complex forms.

That's way I have never bugs in my stacks.

The next I have to understand now is why, when I'm clicking on a
button, nothing happens!

   


I was mowing the grass in our garden yesterday when a small
mollusc slithered out from under a stone and said, in a portentious
voice "there are never bugs in my stacks".

At which point a small back beetle crawled out from under the same stone
and said "Wanna bet, bud?"

Q.E.D.

I rest my case.
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Re: My naming convention

2010-07-11 Thread zryip theSlug
I'm using no naming convention.
I develop stacks with no variables, no handlers and no functions.
I only put objects in a card, drawing circles, rectangles and other
complex forms.

That's way I have never bugs in my stacks.

The next I have to understand now is why, when I'm clicking on a
button, nothing happens!

--
-Zryip TheSlug- wish you the best! 8)
http://www.aslugontheroad.co.cc
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Re: My naming convention

2010-07-11 Thread René Micout
Hello Francis,

Le 10 juil. 2010 à 19:44, Francis Nugent Dixon a écrit :

> Wonderful ! I have never seen so many complex
> naming conventions that I am sure you don't follow.

If I bothered to think about naming conventions it is obviously to use it...

> If you do, then it is for who ? If it is for you,
> this means that your organizational solutions
> prime upon your script development and production.
> What a waste of grey matter !

I don't think this is a waste... It is a gain rather.
I code for myself. During 22 years I made many tools for my job (économiste de 
la construction / ≈ quantity surveyor).
I started with HyperCard... Now, I sometimes modify and improve stacks 20 years 
old.
Anything that can help me understand what I have thought, or wanted to do when 
I was 20 years younger is welcome. In the beginning: no comment, no 
conventions, no method. As to the years, I learned, particularly on this list, 
organize my scripts could get great service.
> In 5 minutes, you can write a button script to
> list out Variable and Field Names, to ensure that
> you don't invent duplicate names.

I will definitely scare you by telling that I spend 3-4 hours to draw an icon 
for a button and sometimes several days to find the best aesthetic solution to 
an interface.
> Revolution scripting is not to be pondered upon.
> Just write it, as it flows out of your brain.

> Forget naming conventions, and spend a little
> time with comments. It beats naming conventions
> every day. If anybody will ever read it except you !

Worse still, I think my code should be "beautiful" (peut-être suis-je un grand 
malade ?). The great masters of the "Go" say that regardless of winning if the 
way is not elegant and appearance of the plate at the end of the game is as 
important as winning.
I have also comment conventions ! I think being definitely incurable ;-)
> I spent years (with Hypercard) inventing a simple
> and strict naming convention WHICH I MYSELF
> RENAGUE ON EVERY DAY !

Since I have structured my scripting, I made great progress.
In 2 months I stop working (la retraite), and I'm going to devote myself to my 
personal projects. The most complex, currently, "Exagofon" has 1 card, 626 
controls. That make music in real time with settings for velocity, tempo, 
mixing 5 voices, harmonization (chords, frequencies), transposition, and so 
on...
Without naming, comments, structure I don't think it could work.

But I think it is necessary but not obligatory...

Bon souvenir de Paris
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Re: My naming convention

2010-07-10 Thread David C.
Hello Francis,

> Revolution scripting is not to be pondered upon.
> Just write it, as it flows out of your brain.

Heh... good, bad or otherwise, I seem to have mastered that part of
your message all too well. ;-)

Best regards,
David C.
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RE: My naming convention

2010-07-10 Thread Damien Girard

Hi,

I totally disagree with you, having a naming convention in an enterprise
helps to produce faster application, but I am talking here about real
application, not a funny stack that display few funny effects...

In my other life (a life without RunRev), I am working in a team of 6
developers, everybody is using my naming convention that I told before, and
the productivity gain is incredible, cause, it is not Revolution, it is C,
and I am working on application that have more than 15000 lines, that
communicate with multiple card, and that have dozen threads and hundred
messages.
So, imagine now if everybody do what they want with naming convention ?
> You get lost, nobody can reuse your work.

When I have to work on the file of a colleague, I simply open it, I saw that
he is calling few global with the "g", few statics with the "s" and I can
use few "t" variables. This took me 5 minutes to have in my head a map of
the source code file.. Productivity loss?

And the best things, with naming convention, in NetBeans IDE, I want a
global, I press "g" + Ctrl + Space and I have got all my global listed! Have
just to pick the one that need, no need to look around and find in what .h
file I placed my global..

So, what I wanted to say:
- Small program, utility, sure, no need convention
- Real program, without one, you are dead. (yes, cause your teammates killed
you :p)


My 2 cents (in euros too)

Damien
NativeSoft, France.

PS: Yes I saw the troll, but I am going in ^^


-Message d'origine-
De : use-revolution-boun...@lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-boun...@lists.runrev.com] De la part de Francis
Nugent Dixon
Envoyé : samedi 10 juillet 2010 19:45
À : use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
Objet : RE: My naming convention


Hi from Beautiful Brittany,

Sorry to put the proverbial cat among the pigeons !

Wonderful ! I have never seen so many complex
naming conventions that I am sure you don't follow.

If you do, then it is for who ? If it is for you,
this means that your organizational solutions
prime upon your script development and production.
What a waste of grey matter !
If you spend more time wondering what you are
going to call your variables, than developing
your scripts, then you DO have a problem !

In 5 minutes, you can write a button script to
list out Variable and Field Names, to ensure that
you don't invent duplicate names.

Revolution scripting is not to be pondered upon.
Just write it, as it flows out of your brain.
Don't invent rules that you will not follow !

Naming conventions are personal. They are
mostly designed to help YOU, maintain and
modify YOUR scripts in the future, if you
ever NEED to return to them !

Forget naming conventions, and spend a little
time with comments. It beats naming conventions
every day. If anybody will ever read it except you !

If you ever have to return to your scripts
(and I doubt that you do this often), you
either recognize your coding, and your coding
knowledge, AND YOUR COMMENTS, and so you don't
need to invent a complex naming convention,
or else it is not your script, and HIS naming
convention is of no help whatsoever.
But by the saints, an intelligent comment is !!!

I spent years (with Hypercard) inventing a simple
and strict naming convention WHICH I MYSELF
RENAGUE ON EVERY DAY !

So - what is the point ?

My 2 cents (of a euro) !

- Francis

-"Nothing should ever be done for the first time !"




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Re: My naming convention

2010-07-10 Thread Richmond

On 07/10/2010 08:44 PM, Francis Nugent Dixon wrote:



Naming conventions are personal. They are
mostly designed to help YOU, maintain and
modify YOUR scripts in the future, if you
ever NEED to return to them !


1. Good point.



Forget naming conventions, and spend a little
time with comments. It beats naming conventions
every day. If anybody will ever read it except you !


2. Aaaah; at that "august' institution, the University of Abertay, the 
lecturers
were continually rabbiting on about what they termed 'the number 10 bus' 
problem.


Their scenario was that were you coding for an employer and you were run 
over by a bus,

if you did not:

2.1.  Pepper your code with comprehensive, comprehensible documentation

and

2.2.  Use some sort of standardised naming conventions

whichever employee was given the task of continuing your work would find 
it well-nigh

impossible to understand your work.

I can see their point.



If you ever have to return to your scripts
(and I doubt that you do this often), 


3. Every day I return to my scripts; my Devawriter and Devawriter Pro 
stacks contain
scripts of up to 2000 lines of fairly complex stuff. What with teaching 
in my EFL school,
lecturing at the University, running around sorting out people's 
hardware problems, cooking,
cleaning the loo, speaking 4 languages on a daily basis, and so on; I 
do, often lose track
of what, exactly some variable or constant was supposed to be doing very 
quickly indeed.



you
either recognize your coding, and your coding
knowledge, AND YOUR COMMENTS, and so you don't
need to invent a complex naming convention,
or else it is not your script,


4. Ha, ha, ha! I returned to a script I wrote 7 years ago, just the 
other day,
 and had a really tough time working out what I had been trying to 
achieve: ther

having been a lot of water under the bridge since then, and, owing to my
increasing comfortableness with RunRev coding, a complete change in the way
that I code.


and HIS naming
convention is of no help whatsoever.
But by the saints, an intelligent comment is !!!


5. Yes, agreed: mind you what Richmond(2003) [mayne THIS is what 'HIS'
refers to . . .  :) ] and Richmond(2010) understand what constitutes
"an intelligent comment" is also a bit problematic.



I spent years (with Hypercard) inventing a simple
and strict naming convention WHICH I MYSELF
RENAGUE ON EVERY DAY !

So - what is the point ?



The point is that this morning somebody made some comment
about naming conventions, and, I, being what I am, could not
resist taking the bait.

HOWEVER; as many RunRev programmers have offerings on both
the old and the new revOnline repositories, and in various other places
on the internet, it might be easier for newcomers to RunRev to
"ease into" RunRev if a standardise naming convention were used.

sincerely, Richmond.
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RE: My naming convention

2010-07-10 Thread Francis Nugent Dixon

Hi from Beautiful Brittany,

Sorry to put the proverbial cat among the pigeons !

Wonderful ! I have never seen so many complex
naming conventions that I am sure you don't follow.

If you do, then it is for who ? If it is for you,
this means that your organizational solutions
prime upon your script development and production.
What a waste of grey matter !
If you spend more time wondering what you are
going to call your variables, than developing
your scripts, then you DO have a problem !

In 5 minutes, you can write a button script to
list out Variable and Field Names, to ensure that
you don't invent duplicate names.

Revolution scripting is not to be pondered upon.
Just write it, as it flows out of your brain.
Don't invent rules that you will not follow !

Naming conventions are personal. They are
mostly designed to help YOU, maintain and
modify YOUR scripts in the future, if you
ever NEED to return to them !

Forget naming conventions, and spend a little
time with comments. It beats naming conventions
every day. If anybody will ever read it except you !

If you ever have to return to your scripts
(and I doubt that you do this often), you
either recognize your coding, and your coding
knowledge, AND YOUR COMMENTS, and so you don't
need to invent a complex naming convention,
or else it is not your script, and HIS naming
convention is of no help whatsoever.
But by the saints, an intelligent comment is !!!

I spent years (with Hypercard) inventing a simple
and strict naming convention WHICH I MYSELF
RENAGUE ON EVERY DAY !

So - what is the point ?

My 2 cents (of a euro) !

- Francis

-"Nothing should ever be done for the first time !"




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Re: My naming convention

2010-07-10 Thread Mark Wieder
Richmond-

Saturday, July 10, 2010, 5:10:33 AM, you wrote:

> I think this is great and we really out to carry on this htread with as
> many poeple submitting their
> naming conventions as possible; we might then be able to abstract some
> sort of commonality
> which would allow us to develop a more standardised naming convention
> for RunRev.

Saturday, July 10, 2010, 4:20:26 AM, Damien Girard wrote:

Personnally I am using this naming convention:
- first letter in lowercase, then Uppercase for the first letter of each
word.

- tMyVariable -> Variable available in the handler
- sMyVariable -> Variable available in the script (local)
- gMyVariable -> Global variable (global)
- kMyVariable -> Constant (constant)
- cMyVariable -> Variable that contain custom properties
- pMyParameter -> Parameter

I use all these with the exception of switching

 - uMyVariable ->  User-defined custom property

(Silly me - I'm reserving "c" for "class", expecting that someday
we'll have real OOP in xtalk)

Saturday, July 10, 2010, 4:52:33 AM, René Micout wrote:

Prefix of 3 chars for objects : button, field, group, slider, label, image, 
graphic

 btn = bouton
 fld = field
 grp = groupe
 sld = slider
 lbl = label
 img = image
 grc = graphic

I also use all these and

 ary = array

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: My naming convention

2010-07-10 Thread Richmond

On 07/10/2010 03:57 PM, Jim Ault wrote:


On Jul 10, 2010, at 3:18 AM, Richmond wrote:


vSTUFF" is a variable

"cSTUFF" is a constant

"sSTUFF" is a string

"aSTUFF" is an array

-

needless-to-say; I almost NEVER adhere to this convention . . .  :)


so what you mean to say is that.


 I almost cNEVER adhere to this convention . . .  :)


is really

 I almost vNEVER adhere to this convention . . .  :)





Worth a try . . .  :)

But, no; I just go on giving things any silly, old name that takes my fancy.

For example; in my Devawriter Pro stack there is a field that contains
a short script to deal with some of the peculiarities of the letter 'R' in
Devanagari-Sanskrit; it is called fld "ARSE" - which makes perfect
sense to me (in more ways than one considering the state I got myself
in working that subroutine out) but does NOT adhere to my naming convention.
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Re: My naming convention

2010-07-10 Thread Jim Ault


On Jul 10, 2010, at 3:18 AM, Richmond wrote:


vSTUFF" is a variable

"cSTUFF" is a constant

"sSTUFF" is a string

"aSTUFF" is an array

-

needless-to-say; I almost NEVER adhere to this convention . . .  :)


so what you mean to say is that.


 I almost cNEVER adhere to this convention . . .  :)


is really

 I almost vNEVER adhere to this convention . . .  :)




Jim Ault
Las Vegas



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Re: My naming convention

2010-07-10 Thread Richmond

On 07/10/2010 02:52 PM, René Micout wrote:

Mine (sorry "in French") :
Prefix of 2 chars for constant, variable, custom prop, handler, command, 
function
Prefix of 3 chars for objects : button, field, group, slider, label, image, 
graphic


-- PRÉFIXES (types des objets) :
--
 ku = constante (unitaire)
 kt = constante (tableau)>  utiliser plutôt une custom property
--
 vg = variable globale [stack]
 vt = variable globale (tableau) [stack]
 vl = variable locale [script]
 vx = variable temporaire [handler]
 vp = paramètre [fonctions]
 vd = variable provisoire servant au debugage
--
 cp = custom property
--
 hm = handler main stack (handler situé dans le stack principal)
 hs = handler stack (handler situé dans le script du stack)
 hc = handler card (handler situé dans le script de la carte)
 hg = handler group (handler situé dans le script du groupe)
 ho = handler objet (handler situé dans le script de l'objet)
--
 fm = function main stack (fonction située dans le stack principal)
 fs = function stack (fonction située dans le script du stack)
 fc = function card (fonction située dans le script de la carte)
 fg = function group (fonction située dans le script du groupe)
 fo = function objet (fonction située dans le script de l'objet)
 db = fonction ou commande servant au debugage
--
 btn = bouton
 fld = field
 grp = groupe
 sld = slider
 lbl = label
 img = image
 grc = graphic
   


This is rather better than mine (and more comprehensive) insofar as by 
having
3 letter prefixes one doesn't have to use a 'p' (as in Picture) for a 
graphic

object. It also keys directly into the short forms of objects in RunRev.

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Re: My naming convention

2010-07-10 Thread Richmond

On 07/10/2010 02:20 PM, Damien Girard wrote:

Personnally I am using this naming convention:
- first letter in lowercase, then Uppercase for the first letter of each
word.

- tMyVariable ->  Variable available in the handler
- sMyVariable ->  Variable available in the script (local)
- gMyVariable ->  Global variable (global)
- kMyVariable ->  Constant (constant)
- cMyVariable ->  Variable that contain custom properties
- pMyParameter ->  Parameter

In C, I use the same naming convention, the difference is:
- Instead of Uppercase, I use "_" to separate words.

- t_my_variable ->  Variable available in the handler
- s_my_variable ->  Variable available in the file (static)
- g_my_variable ->  Variable available in the application (extern)
- k_my_variable ->  Constant
- p_my_paramater ->  Parameter (you see the *, you are not dumb, no need of a
"pointer" prefix)

And for C++/C#, same as Revolution. This enable me to mix C/C++ and to see
quickly in what file I am located.

After, for objects, I have no convention, but usually in rev I define the
name of objects only in lowercase, in order to not mix with variables.

All my softwares are written like that, and it works ;) (more than 20 000
lignes software...) (I stolen this convention from a Rev user, but I do not
remember who lol, btw thanks to him ^^)

Also, I am using DoxyGen in C/C++, and NativeDoc in Rev, that's helping a
lot :p

   


I think this is great and we really out to carry on this htread with as 
many poeple submitting their
naming conventions as possible; we might then be able to abstract some 
sort of commonality
which would allow us to develop a more standardised naming convention 
for RunRev.

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Re: My naming convention

2010-07-10 Thread René Micout
Mine (sorry "in French") :
Prefix of 2 chars for constant, variable, custom prop, handler, command, 
function
Prefix of 3 chars for objects : button, field, group, slider, label, image, 
graphic


-- PRÉFIXES (types des objets) :
--
 ku = constante (unitaire)
 kt = constante (tableau) > utiliser plutôt une custom property
--
 vg = variable globale [stack]
 vt = variable globale (tableau) [stack]
 vl = variable locale [script]
 vx = variable temporaire [handler]
 vp = paramètre [fonctions]
 vd = variable provisoire servant au debugage
--
 cp = custom property
--
 hm = handler main stack (handler situé dans le stack principal)
 hs = handler stack (handler situé dans le script du stack)
 hc = handler card (handler situé dans le script de la carte)
 hg = handler group (handler situé dans le script du groupe)
 ho = handler objet (handler situé dans le script de l'objet)
--
 fm = function main stack (fonction située dans le stack principal)
 fs = function stack (fonction située dans le script du stack)
 fc = function card (fonction située dans le script de la carte)
 fg = function group (fonction située dans le script du groupe)
 fo = function objet (fonction située dans le script de l'objet)
 db = fonction ou commande servant au debugage
--
 btn = bouton
 fld = field
 grp = groupe
 sld = slider
 lbl = label
 img = image
 grc = graphic___
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RE: My naming convention

2010-07-10 Thread Damien Girard

Personnally I am using this naming convention:
- first letter in lowercase, then Uppercase for the first letter of each
word.

- tMyVariable -> Variable available in the handler
- sMyVariable -> Variable available in the script (local)
- gMyVariable -> Global variable (global)
- kMyVariable -> Constant (constant)
- cMyVariable -> Variable that contain custom properties
- pMyParameter -> Parameter

In C, I use the same naming convention, the difference is:
- Instead of Uppercase, I use "_" to separate words.

- t_my_variable -> Variable available in the handler
- s_my_variable -> Variable available in the file (static)
- g_my_variable -> Variable available in the application (extern)
- k_my_variable -> Constant
- p_my_paramater -> Parameter (you see the *, you are not dumb, no need of a
"pointer" prefix)

And for C++/C#, same as Revolution. This enable me to mix C/C++ and to see
quickly in what file I am located.

After, for objects, I have no convention, but usually in rev I define the
name of objects only in lowercase, in order to not mix with variables.

All my softwares are written like that, and it works ;) (more than 20 000
lignes software...) (I stolen this convention from a Rev user, but I do not
remember who lol, btw thanks to him ^^)

Also, I am using DoxyGen in C/C++, and NativeDoc in Rev, that's helping a
lot :p

-Message d'origine-
De : use-revolution-boun...@lists.runrev.com
[mailto:use-revolution-boun...@lists.runrev.com] De la part de Richmond
Envoyé : samedi 10 juillet 2010 12:18
À : How to use Revolution
Objet : My naming convention


For what it is worth;

I always start a field's name with a lowercase 'f' - the rest in uppercase:

e.g. "fSTUFF"

so, similarly with other objects:

"gSTUFF" will be a group,

"ggSTUFF" will be a group containing subordinate groups,

"iSTUFF" is an image,

"pSTUFF" is (oddly enough) a graphic object

"bSTUFF" is a button

-

"vSTUFF" is a variable

"cSTUFF" is a constant

"sSTUFF" is a string

"aSTUFF" is an array

-

needless-to-say; I almost NEVER adhere to this convention . . .  :)



RunRev, having no intrinsic naming conventions, cheerfully allows one to
wander off rather tangentially if one is not very careful.



What I DO do is have a piece of paper on a clipboard on my lap where I write
down every object's name and what it is with a pencil.
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___
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