Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Trevor DeVore]

I believe for the manifest to work the executable needs to link to and 
initialize "ComCtl32.dll".  I tried using Resource Tuner (great program 
by the way -restuner.com) to add the manifest to an executable I built 
with Distribution Builder but apparently the Rev executables are not 
linked to this file so it won't work.  At least that is what Resource 
Tuner says.  I don't have XP handy so I couldn't test it but I could 
send someone a test executable if they wanted to see if it did.

--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Multimedia
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Monday, October 6, 2003, at 05:19  AM, Júlio César Ködel wrote:

Did you tried to create a manifest for Revolution? If revolution uses 
the
default Windows System Button, then the manifest would draw it as Luna 
or
other style on XP.

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

i'd rather have my buttons looking "native" in winXP ;-)

-Original Message-
Set the lookAndFeel to "MacOSX" -- would be a nice Christmas present
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Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Júlio César Ködel]

Did you tried to create a manifest for Revolution? If revolution uses the
default Windows System Button, then the manifest would draw it as Luna or
other style on XP.

- Original Message -
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2003 12:39 AM
Subject: Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution


> i'd rather have my buttons looking "native" in winXP ;-)
>
> -Original Message-
> > > Set the lookAndFeel to "MacOSX" -- would be a nice Christmas present
>
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Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Alex Rice]

On Sunday, October 5, 2003, at 05:07  PM, Monte Goulding wrote:

Ummm... no offence Roger but wouldn't it be nice to get even an 
emulated XP
look and feel before RunRev goes trying to emulate OS X? If we had 
full XP
theme support you could get OS X look anyway. Many of us have been
frustrated by the focus on OS X look and feel while a far more popular 
OS is
2 years out of date. I'm reasonably sure that XP theme support is just
around the corner.
I hope so. It's like swimming upstream I guess. They are planning a new 
style UI again 

"""Avalon is the graphics and media plumbing within Longhorn that 
software developers use to build applications. "Aero" is the company's 
name for the actual graphical user interface (GUI) in Longhorn that the 
end user sees. """

Also keep in mind that the "Aqua/Appearance Manager" look and feel is 
the only one currently offered by Rev that uses native widgets. All the 
others are emulated. I agree with what Richard said: it would be 
difficult or impossible to emulate. All those drop shadows and 
gradients and animated buttons. Too much.

Alex Rice <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> | Mindlube Software | http://mindlube.com

what a waste of thumbs that are opposable
to make machines that are disposable  -Ani DiFranco
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Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[[EMAIL PROTECTED]]

i'd rather have my buttons looking "native" in winXP ;-)

-Original Message-
> > Set the lookAndFeel to "MacOSX" -- would be a nice Christmas present

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RE: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Monte Goulding]

> Are there any plans for Rev to simulate the Aqua appearance in the same
> way? It would be nice for those of us who develop apps on Windows that
> will be used on OS X to be able to preview the look and feel.

Ummm... no offence Roger but wouldn't it be nice to get even an emulated XP
look and feel before RunRev goes trying to emulate OS X? If we had full XP
theme support you could get OS X look anyway. Many of us have been
frustrated by the focus on OS X look and feel while a far more popular OS is
2 years out of date. I'm reasonably sure that XP theme support is just
around the corner. I'm also reasonably sure that we won't ever get OS X
emulation seeing as by the time it was emulated Apple would have changed it
;-)

Cheers

Monte

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Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Júlio César Ködel]

'Cos is beaultiful??? =P

For Windows XP, it's not a problem, since there is Aqua-like "styles" for
Windows XP wich make Windows works as Aqua does. But, for other Windows
(like 95 and 98), the user is REALLY bored of that non-gracefull gray
window, every day, year by year...
It's just a cosmetic trick to bring more hapiness to the user, just this ;-)
(Besides: someone here knows of a Media Player that works in a default
window, with default buttons and all those "gray" stuffs? No. Almost all
media players are skinned to have a better appearence. Sometimes it's good
to change the user experience within your application).

Windows XP uses Luna interface, MacOS uses Platinum, MacOSX use Aqua, Linux
use, well, I don't know what the hell is that, he he he... It's just
graphics... nothing more.

And I'm not asking nothing about Aqua... Just Platinum =)

- Original Message - 
From: "Ken Norris" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution


> Hi Richard,
>
> > Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:33:13 -0700
> > Subject: Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution
> > From: Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
> > One of the
> > downsides to implementing Aqua emulation would be to encourage a false
> > confidence for things that might look good buy do not work properly once
> > actually deployed there.
> --
> Dumb question from someone who hasn't followed all of this. Why would
> someone want to emulate Mac OSX Aqua on a Windoze platform to begin with?
>
> Ken N.
>
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Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Ken Norris]

Hi Richard,

> Date: Sun, 05 Oct 2003 11:33:13 -0700
> Subject: Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution
> From: Richard Gaskin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> One of the
> downsides to implementing Aqua emulation would be to encourage a false
> confidence for things that might look good buy do not work properly once
> actually deployed there.
--
Dumb question from someone who hasn't followed all of this. Why would
someone want to emulate Mac OSX Aqua on a Windoze platform to begin with?

Ken N.

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Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Pierre Sahores]

Le dim 05/10/2003 à 18:50, Júlio César Ködel a écrit :
> No... I was thinking in Platinum... ;-)
> After some time, users get a little tired about the look and feel of their
> OSes (that's why exists skins modules for Windows and Linux). It would be
> nice to change the look of my app without any effort.
> One thing that I'm getting some problem is on buttons.
> It would be nice if we could make buttons like the skins programs. Let's
> suppose a PNG file:
> +-+
> !*!
> +-+
> A Skin program would divide a PNG file in a 3x3 matrix, then, apply the + on
> corners, repeat -, * and - on center (H) and ! on vertical, mouting this way
> a button (independent of its size).
> Would be a nice addition to Rev a way to make a fixed 32x32 PNG and apply it
> to a button (whatever the button changes in size, it will reorganize the
> matrix making the graphic fit to any size without magnifications).

Hi Júlio,

In between many good addresses, you will find most of what you are
thinking about in visiting the Chipp's web site at
<http://www.altuit.com/webs/altuit2/RunRev/About.htm>,
the Richard's one at <http://www.fourthworld.com/rev/>,
the Jacque's one at <http://www.hyperactivesw.com/>,
the Rev's developers home at
<http://www.runrev.com/Revolution1/developercentral/usercontributions.html>

etc, etc...

Just see how it's always, in between us, a "Revolutionnary" to gohead,
in what each other is searching about ;-) Cool, is'n it ?

Bests, Pierre
> 
> - Original Message - 
> From: "Stephen Quinn Barncard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 4:57 AM
> Subject: Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution
> 
> 
> > I don't think that's what Júlio meant. I think he
> > wants his app to *look like* aqua  when it runs
> > in Windoze, not just in development.
> >
> > I suppose one could create 'aqua like' graphic
> > objects such as invisible buttons, but the
> > scrollbars in fields would be a problem, not to
> > mention menus. There also might be some 'look and
> > feel' copyright issues with Apple, depending on
> > how far one went.
> >
> > Besides, it would probably be disconcerting for a
> > Windoze user to see what he is not used to
> >
> >
> > >At 10:44 PM -0300 10/4/2003, Júlio César Ködel wrote:
> > >>My question was: it is possible to make this "look and feel" of Classic
> > >>MacOS in a Rev. application running in Windows (i.e. I make a
> application,
> > >>that is distributed for Windows machines, and want to apply ClassicMacOS
> > >>style on it, as it is possible in the development stage)
> > >
> > >
> > >Set the lookAndFeel property to "Macintosh" to
> > >get the Platinum appearance. (This is what the
> > >menu item in the development environment does.)
> > >--
> > >Jeanne DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
> > ___
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Bien cordialement, Pierre Sahores

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F - 77140 Nemours

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Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Richard Gaskin]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Set the lookAndFeel to "MacOSX" -- would be a nice Christmas present this
> year.

I'd rather have a new bicycle. :)

Emulating OS X'x complex Appearance Manager would be a tremendous amount of
work, effectively requiring the reverse-engineering and re-implementation of
the Quartz rendering engine along with it for it to look right.

I'd much rather see that amount of effort go into a hundred other new
features, the sum of all of which would likely cost less.

Besides, OS X is such an odd beast that the best way to build apps for it is
to at least spend some time tweaking on that OS natively.  One of the
downsides to implementing Aqua emulation would be to encourage a false
confidence for things that might look good buy do not work properly once
actually deployed there.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___
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 Tel: 323-225-3717   AIM: FourthWorldInc

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Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Júlio César Ködel]

I think that would be a problem, since both Windows XP and MacOS X use, in a
large scale, alpha blending (those shadows and a lot of other window
gadgets). Would be impossible to achieve a complete MacOS X look and feel in
Windows 32, Windows NT 4 and Linuxes environments.

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, October 05, 2003 10:15 AM
Subject: Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution


> > At 10:44 PM -0300 10/4/2003, Júlio César Ködel wrote:
> >>My question was: it is possible to make this "look and feel" of Classic
> >>MacOS in a Rev. application running in Windows (i.e. I make a
> application,
> >>that is distributed for Windows machines, and want to apply ClassicMacOS
> >>style on it, as it is possible in the development stage)
> >
> >
> > Set the lookAndFeel property to "Macintosh" to get the Platinum
> > appearance. (This is what the menu item in the development
> > environment does.)
> > --
> > Jeanne DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
> > Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
> > ~~~ Check our web site for new Revolution editions & special offers ~~~
>
> Jeanne,
>
> Are there any plans for Rev to simulate the Aqua appearance in the same
> way? It would be nice for those of us who develop apps on Windows that
> will be used on OS X to be able to preview the look and feel.
>
> Set the lookAndFeel to "MacOSX" -- would be a nice Christmas present this
> year.
>
> Thanks.
> Roger Eller
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Roger . E . Eller]

> At 10:44 PM -0300 10/4/2003, Júlio César Ködel wrote:
>>My question was: it is possible to make this "look and feel" of Classic
>>MacOS in a Rev. application running in Windows (i.e. I make a 
application,
>>that is distributed for Windows machines, and want to apply ClassicMacOS
>>style on it, as it is possible in the development stage)
> 
> 
> Set the lookAndFeel property to "Macintosh" to get the Platinum
> appearance. (This is what the menu item in the development
> environment does.)
> --
> Jeanne DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
> Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
> ~~~ Check our web site for new Revolution editions & special offers ~~~

Jeanne,

Are there any plans for Rev to simulate the Aqua appearance in the same 
way? It would be nice for those of us who develop apps on Windows that 
will be used on OS X to be able to preview the look and feel.

Set the lookAndFeel to "MacOSX" -- would be a nice Christmas present this 
year.

Thanks.
Roger Eller
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 12:57 AM -0700 10/5/2003, Stephen Quinn Barncard wrote:
I don't think that's what Júlio meant. I think he wants his app to 
*look like* aqua  when it runs in Windoze, not just in development.
He said "classic Mac OS", though. (Julio?)
--
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Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
~~~ Check our web site for new Revolution editions & special offers ~~~
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Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Stephen Quinn Barncard]

I don't think that's what Júlio meant. I think he 
wants his app to *look like* aqua  when it runs 
in Windoze, not just in development.

I suppose one could create 'aqua like' graphic 
objects such as invisible buttons, but the 
scrollbars in fields would be a problem, not to 
mention menus. There also might be some 'look and 
feel' copyright issues with Apple, depending on 
how far one went.

Besides, it would probably be disconcerting for a 
Windoze user to see what he is not used to


At 10:44 PM -0300 10/4/2003, Júlio César Ködel wrote:
My question was: it is possible to make this "look and feel" of Classic
MacOS in a Rev. application running in Windows (i.e. I make a application,
that is distributed for Windows machines, and want to apply ClassicMacOS
style on it, as it is possible in the development stage)


Set the lookAndFeel property to "Macintosh" to 
get the Platinum appearance. (This is what the 
menu item in the development environment does.)
--
Jeanne DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
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Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Jeanne A. E. DeVoto]

At 10:44 PM -0300 10/4/2003, Júlio César Ködel wrote:
My question was: it is possible to make this "look and feel" of Classic
MacOS in a Rev. application running in Windows (i.e. I make a application,
that is distributed for Windows machines, and want to apply ClassicMacOS
style on it, as it is possible in the development stage)


Set the lookAndFeel property to "Macintosh" to get the Platinum 
appearance. (This is what the menu item in the development 
environment does.)
--
Jeanne DeVoto ~ [EMAIL PROTECTED] ~ http://www.runrev.com/
Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools
~~~ Check our web site for new Revolution editions & special offers ~~~
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Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Júlio César Ködel]

>
> What's a "relat"?
>
Ops... It's a "report", he he he...
Well... Opening a local html file it's fine.
I don't know if is possible on all systems, but, in Windows, it's possible
to get a HTML Browser within a OLE Object. I know that Macitosh also have
OLE Objects support from Microsoft (and, if there is a IE for Macs, I think
it would be possible to make this trick on Mac), but I don't know about
Linux...

> Classic, but not OS X.  That's the only one you can't at this time.  While
> the other OS appearances are emulated it would be way too much work to
> emulate Apple's Aqua Appearance Manager.
>
My question was: it is possible to make this "look and feel" of Classic
MacOS in a Rev. application running in Windows (i.e. I make a application,
that is distributed for Windows machines, and want to apply ClassicMacOS
style on it, as it is possible in the development stage)

Thanx for the help ;-)

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Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Pierre Sahores]

Hi Júlio,

To see an example of a full working Revolution+PostgreSQL application,
here as the Web issue (there is a Rev's client side app available too),
developped in less than some days, have an eye at :

 and let me know, off-list, if
you need more infos or sources stack about how to run this kind of Rev's
process.

Bests, Pierre

Le sam 04/10/2003 à 23:26, Júlio César Ködel a écrit :
> Each day I'm more convinced that Revolution is a great program tool.
> Some things are amazing easy to do, and seems so powerfull that I
> think no program CAN'T be developed in Rev. But, I must ask some
> questions: (first, sorry by comparing Rev with VB, but I'm a BASIC
> programmer since 1986, and VB is my current world ;-] )
>  
> 1) Nowadays, more and more applications (especially those developed in
> RAD tools) are using HTML, for display data, forms, or whatever. In my
> case, I use HTML for custom relats (my program parses tags in HTML
> file and then replace them with some data. It's a easy way to make
> relats customizable for the final user). Revolution doesn't have a
> control that show HTML pages (I know there is a DLL, which I assume
> that use IE engine, but work only for Windows). There is some way to
> display full HTML pages within cards, in all plataforms (or, at least,
> Windows and *nix)? Or, if not, at least a "standard" way to "execute"
> a HTML file (some kind of shell that would open the default Web
> Browser of OS and display a local file).
>  
> 2) Someone know a site where there is some Rev. applications to
> download (to study, of course, open source)?
>  
> 3) Since Windows 95, both Mac and *nix plataforms are using controls
> like the Windows TreeView and ListItems controls. There is something
> like this for Revolution (TV and LI objects are used, for example, in
> a Windows Explorer window, wich TreeView is the object that shows a
> "tree" of folders and ListItems is the object that show items with
> icons, tabs and subitems)
>  
> 4) Is there a IDE for Revolution other than the current?
>  
> 5) Revolution IDE is capable of showing the "look and feel" of other
> plataforms (for example, MacOS and Motif). In a distributed
> application, there is some way to make it look like a Mac, for
> example, by default (in other words: Can I make a Revolution
> application in Windows that mantain the "look" of Mac?)
>  
> 6) When making a compiled application from Revolution, I noticed that
> it would NOT support Microsoft icons other than 16 colors... There's
> no way to use 256 colors icons? (the best would be if Rev. could use
> TrueColor or RGBA icons, but 256 colors are the minimal to nowadays
> Windows stardards).
>  
> Well... I guess it's "only" this... Thanx in advance for all ;-)
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Re: Some doubts 'bout Revolution

[Richard Gaskin]

Júlio César Ködel wrote:

> 1) Nowadays, more and more applications (especially those developed in RAD
> tools) are using HTML, for display data, forms, or whatever. In my case, I use
> HTML for custom relats (my program parses tags in HTML file and then replace
> them with some data. It's a easy way to make relats customizable for the final
> user). Revolution doesn't have a control that show HTML pages (I know there is
> a DLL, which I assume that use IE engine, but work only for Windows). There is
> some way to display full HTML pages within cards, in all plataforms (or, at
> least, Windows and *nix)? Or, if not, at least a "standard" way to "execute" a
> HTML file (some kind of shell that would open the default Web Browser of OS
> and display a local file).

What's a "relat"?

Rev's native support for HTML is limited to tags that have a meaningful
representation in Rev field objects:  links, images, and text styling
attributes like bold, italic, underline, strikethrough, superscript, and
subscript.

Expanding the field objects to handle more of the HTML DOM is on the request
list.   But the full HTML spec is big, and I don't know if we'll ever see
everything supported, from form elements to CSS; I'm not sure how they would
match th object models up.

In the meantime, opening a page in the user's preferred browser is a
one-liner, and its  text parsing fast enough that there's a lot you can do
with custom tags.  Check out the XML external that ships with Rev for ideas
on sectioning displayable HTML in more complex custom structures.


> 2) Someone know a site where there is some Rev. applications to download (to
> study, of course, open source)?

Already on your hard drive: see the menu item
Development->Plugins->Go_RevNet

That launches an online service for downloading dozens of third-party
examples stacks and tools.

 
> 3) Since Windows 95, both Mac and *nix plataforms are using controls like the
> Windows TreeView and ListItems controls. There is something like this for
> Revolution (TV and LI objects are used, for example, in a Windows Explorer
> window, wich TreeView is the object that shows a "tree" of folders and
> ListItems is the object that show items with icons, tabs and subitems)

A native tree view object is on the request list.  In the meantime a
scripted solution is available from the Contributions page at RunRev.com's
Developer Central.

 
> 4) Is there a IDE for Revolution other than the current?

There are two others:

The MetaCard IDE was written by the inventor of the engine.  Much more
spartan than Rev's, it's also a little more nimble.  You can get it at
metacard.com.

There's also FreeGUI, an open source project that aims to provide the
simplicity of the HyperCard experience to Transcript developers.  It has a
group on Yahoo Groups.

 
> 5) Revolution IDE is capable of showing the "look and feel" of other
> plataforms (for example, MacOS and Motif). In a distributed application, there
> is some way to make it look like a Mac, for example, by default (in other
> words: Can I make a Revolution application in Windows that mantain the "look"
> of Mac?)

Classic, but not OS X.  That's the only one you can't at this time.  While
the other OS appearances are emulated it would be way too much work to
emulate Apple's Aqua Appearance Manager.

 
> 6) When making a compiled application from Revolution, I noticed that it would
> NOT support Microsoft icons other than 16 colors... There's no way to use 256
> colors icons? (the best would be if Rev. could use TrueColor or RGBA icons,
> but 256 colors are the minimal to nowadays Windows stardards).

256 color icons in a hotly requested item these days.  At the moment it's
just the 16 colors, but I'm told that with the interest in 256-color Win
icons it's definitely on the list.

-- 
 Richard Gaskin 
 Fourth World Media Corporation
 Developer of WebMerge: Publish any database on any Web site
 ___
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]   http://www.FourthWorld.com
 Tel: 323-225-3717   AIM: FourthWorldInc

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