Re: RevStore

[Michael Kann]

Jim,

Your remark reminds me when we were kayaking north of Seattle and a woman in 
our group said "I hope we see a ton of whales."

Mike

--- On Mon, 5/3/10, Jim Kanter  wrote:

> From: Jim Kanter 
> Subject: Re: RevStore
> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> Date: Monday, May 3, 2010, 3:55 PM
> It looks like a million bucks!
> 
> On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 6:14 PM, Michael Kann 
> wrote:
> > I'm just curious. What does that program that sold for
> two million dollars look like?
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Re: RevStore

[Jim Kanter]

It looks like a million bucks!

On Sun, May 2, 2010 at 6:14 PM, Michael Kann  wrote:
> I'm just curious. What does that program that sold for two million dollars 
> look like?
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Re: RevStore

[Richmond Mathewson]

 I'm sorry I took some time to respond to this; but fell into to bed 
far too late last night, having got myself

(I really need to control myself) stirred up by a certain person.

I am sorry about my contribution to that fairly ugly stramash.


I think a great problem for Rev stacks is that they are mostly created by 
one-man or woman shops.  There are not teams with project directors, artists, 
photoshop experts, animators, etc.  (Scott Rossi may qualify as a team, in this 
scenario, but he is unique.) This is both liberating and constraining, funny 
how that works.  If there were more collaboration between graphic artists, 
design experts and programmers, perhaps the output would be more aesthetically 
viable.  But now we're dealing in big budgets.

Exact ! Rev is not the problem ! WE (REV PRO DEVLOPERS) WILL REMIND THE PROBLEM AS 
LONG AS WE WILL NOT BECOME ABLE TO BUILD COLLECTIVE INTELLIGENCE BASED TEAMS<=> 
 APPLICATIONS.



2 points here:

1. "Rev is not the problem ! "  No it isn't; but that statement somehow 
reminds me of Bulgarian communists
 who say "Communism was not the problem; it was just that people 
misunderstood it and refused to

 become good communists."

I think that Rev may be part of the problem, because problems are 
never one-sided, and are usually

extremely complicated.

Certainly, if the Rev documentation could be sorted out, brought up 
to date, and purged of references
to things and features that are not there any more (c.f. refs to 
making standalones for ancient computer

systems), that would make things a lot smoother.

2. "I think a great problem for Rev stacks is that they are mostly 
created by one-man or woman shops."


I think that is only a problem if you expecting socking-great 
stacks on a par with Adobe Photoshop and so

on.

   To my mind Runtime Revolution is the ideal RAD for developing things 
to plug vital but overlooked niches
   (c.f. my Devawriter; the beginning of a series of systems for 
digitising language texts that use extremely
   complicated writing systems). It is often a backroom boy/girl who 
spots these niches and is able to plug

   them reasonably quickly.

   While my Devawriter is not "state of the art" confectionary it does 
what it sets out to do in a reasonably
   aesthetic sort of way; one is tempted to wonder if, with that sort 
of program, a whole hierarchy of
  "project directors, artists, photoshop experts, animators, etc." 
would have made a particularly
   significant difference. Particularly as what was required was a font 
expert, was reasonably
   competent with GIMP and RunRev, and had a working knowledge of 
Sanskrit = me . . . :)


   What, to my mind, is far more important than a whole hierarchy of " 
. . . . " is that each program should be

   put through fairly rigorous Beta testing before it is released.

I don't know whether we need to have a "committee of experts" to judge 
what could and what couldn't

be included in some sort of Rev website like the Apple one:

http://www.apple.com/downloads/  (gosh, just thinking about it as a 
possibility makes me excited)


or things couldn't be a bit more Darwinian; if they fly they fly, and if 
they crash they crash.

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Re: RevStore

[Pierre Sahores]

René,

Interesting in getting your feedback ;-)

Une version remise en forme sous une forme plus fun (interview par un pote) 
devrait être dispo. prochainement. 

Best Regards from Jurançon,

Pierre

Le 3 mai 2010 à 12:16, René Micout a écrit :

> Pierre,
> It is long but I will read it...
> C'est long, mais je vais faire l'effort de lire...

Merci ; c'est dans la navette des idées qu'elles percolent souvent le mieux :D

> Bon souvenir de Paris
> René
> 
> Le 3 mai 2010 à 11:37, Pierre Sahores a écrit :
> 
>> 
>> Le 3 mai 2010 à 00:00, Mark Swindell a écrit :
>> 
>>> I think a great problem for Rev stacks is that they are mostly created by 
>>> one-man or woman shops.  There are not teams with project directors, 
>>> artists, photoshop experts, animators, etc.  (Scott Rossi may qualify as a 
>>> team, in this scenario, but he is unique.) This is both liberating and 
>>> constraining, funny how that works.  If there were more collaboration 
>>> between graphic artists, design experts and programmers, perhaps the output 
>>> would be more aesthetically viable.  But now we're dealing in big budgets.
>> 
>> Exact ! Rev is not the problem ! WE (REV PRO DEVLOPERS) WILL REMIND THE 
>> PROBLEM AS LONG AS WE WILL NOT BECOME ABLE TO BUILD COLLECTIVE INTELLIGENCE 
>> BASED TEAMS <=> APPLICATIONS.
>> 
>> It seems especially applicable to all the projects we could launch to 
>> outpass the limits Rendall is pointing its (and our) reflexion on. In my own 
>> mind, we would become lots more credibles and effiscients if we could build 
>> such collaborative groups to buid :
>> 
>> - web 3 semantical "inference engines + imperative rules + adaptative rules" 
>> based distribued organised objects info collectors and search engines where 
>> the search engine would not reside on a central server but on each end-user 
>> computer as an revlet browser's plugin and where the search results would be 
>> back-shared on the end-user screen and simultaneously sended to a central 
>> "hash-tables typed" shared memory (a PostgreSQL server) for next reuses.
>> 
>> - first class n-tier web/ria solutions.
>> 
>> - P2P AV streaming solutions.
>> 
>> and, more generaly, all the kind of novative apps we could especially 
>> design, in getting its best from Rev, to build great inference engines based 
>> automats in filling the ways to go i began to synthetise in this paper, for 
>> yet (sorry) untranslated to english :
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Pierre Sahores
>> mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70
>> 
>> www.wrds.com
>> www.sahores-conseil.com
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> ___
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--
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mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






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Re: RevStore

[René Micout]

Pierre,
It is long but I will read it...
C'est long, mais je vais faire l'effort de lire...
Bon souvenir de Paris
René

Le 3 mai 2010 à 11:37, Pierre Sahores a écrit :

> 
> Le 3 mai 2010 à 00:00, Mark Swindell a écrit :
> 
>> I think a great problem for Rev stacks is that they are mostly created by 
>> one-man or woman shops.  There are not teams with project directors, 
>> artists, photoshop experts, animators, etc.  (Scott Rossi may qualify as a 
>> team, in this scenario, but he is unique.) This is both liberating and 
>> constraining, funny how that works.  If there were more collaboration 
>> between graphic artists, design experts and programmers, perhaps the output 
>> would be more aesthetically viable.  But now we're dealing in big budgets.
> 
> Exact ! Rev is not the problem ! WE (REV PRO DEVLOPERS) WILL REMIND THE 
> PROBLEM AS LONG AS WE WILL NOT BECOME ABLE TO BUILD COLLECTIVE INTELLIGENCE 
> BASED TEAMS <=> APPLICATIONS.
> 
> It seems especially applicable to all the projects we could launch to outpass 
> the limits Rendall is pointing its (and our) reflexion on. In my own mind, we 
> would become lots more credibles and effiscients if we could build such 
> collaborative groups to buid :
> 
> - web 3 semantical "inference engines + imperative rules + adaptative rules" 
> based distribued organised objects info collectors and search engines where 
> the search engine would not reside on a central server but on each end-user 
> computer as an revlet browser's plugin and where the search results would be 
> back-shared on the end-user screen and simultaneously sended to a central 
> "hash-tables typed" shared memory (a PostgreSQL server) for next reuses.
> 
> - first class n-tier web/ria solutions.
> 
> - P2P AV streaming solutions.
> 
> and, more generaly, all the kind of novative apps we could especially design, 
> in getting its best from Rev, to build great inference engines based automats 
> in filling the ways to go i began to synthetise in this paper, for yet 
> (sorry) untranslated to english :
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Pierre Sahores
> mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70
> 
> www.wrds.com
> www.sahores-conseil.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ___
> use-revolution mailing list
> use-revolution@lists.runrev.com
> Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription 
> preferences:
> http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution

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Re: RevStore

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 3 mai 2010 à 00:00, Mark Swindell a écrit :

> I think a great problem for Rev stacks is that they are mostly created by 
> one-man or woman shops.  There are not teams with project directors, artists, 
> photoshop experts, animators, etc.  (Scott Rossi may qualify as a team, in 
> this scenario, but he is unique.) This is both liberating and constraining, 
> funny how that works.  If there were more collaboration between graphic 
> artists, design experts and programmers, perhaps the output would be more 
> aesthetically viable.  But now we're dealing in big budgets.

Exact ! Rev is not the problem ! WE (REV PRO DEVLOPERS) WILL REMIND THE PROBLEM 
AS LONG AS WE WILL NOT BECOME ABLE TO BUILD COLLECTIVE INTELLIGENCE BASED TEAMS 
<=> APPLICATIONS.

It seems especially applicable to all the projects we could launch to outpass 
the limits Rendall is pointing its (and our) reflexion on. In my own mind, we 
would become lots more credibles and effiscients if we could build such 
collaborative groups to buid :

- web 3 semantical "inference engines + imperative rules + adaptative rules" 
based distribued organised objects info collectors and search engines where the 
search engine would not reside on a central server but on each end-user 
computer as an revlet browser's plugin and where the search results would be 
back-shared on the end-user screen and simultaneously sended to a central 
"hash-tables typed" shared memory (a PostgreSQL server) for next reuses.

- first class n-tier web/ria solutions.

- P2P AV streaming solutions.

and, more generaly, all the kind of novative apps we could especially design, 
in getting its best from Rev, to build great inference engines based automats 
in filling the ways to go i began to synthetise in this paper, for yet (sorry) 
untranslated to english :



--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






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Re: RevStore

[Michael Kann]

I'm just curious. What does that program that sold for two million dollars look 
like?


--- On Sun, 5/2/10, Mark Swindell  wrote:

> From: Mark Swindell 
> Subject: Re: RevStore
> To: "How to use Revolution" 
> Date: Sunday, May 2, 2010, 5:00 PM
> This is a very interesting post from
> someone who was in a position to know what was going on back
> then.  It confirms (at least for me) what I always felt
> to be the case, and why Apple ultimately let HC die on the
> vine.  Most coders of any language are not design
> experts, nor do they, of necessity,  have much going on
> in terms of artistic or aesthetic sensibilities. 
> Amateur coders maybe even less.  I recall getting shot
> down for offering this opinion about the dismal appearance
> of the majority of HC stacks on HC and SuperCard lists years
> ago.  For Apple to have its name attached to
> awful-looking, poorly-written hypercard stacks was just not
> a smart enterprise move, no matter how empowering the HC
> platform to "the rest of us."
> 
> The same can be true for Rev stacks, though clearly the
> toolkit for nice-looking apps is much nicer.  Many of
> the examples in the User section might rise to the level of
> perhaps good proof-of-concept demonstrations, but many, if
> not most, look unprofessional.  That's not a knock on
> anyone, it's a subjective observation, but one that I think
> would be confirmed by most disinterested 3rd parties. 
> (Does it then become objective?)  I'm referring here,
> by the way, to stand-alone apps for public consumption, not
> business-related utilities, which probably account for a
> great deal of the income generated off Rev programming.
> 
> I think a great problem for Rev stacks is that they are
> mostly created by one-man or woman shops.  There are
> not teams with project directors, artists, photoshop
> experts, animators, etc.  (Scott Rossi may qualify as a
> team, in this scenario, but he is unique.) This is both
> liberating and constraining, funny how that works.  If
> there were more collaboration between graphic artists,
> design experts and programmers, perhaps the output would be
> more aesthetically viable.  But now we're dealing in
> big budgets.
> 
> Of course, this doesn't even touch on the functional aspect
> of the software, which is, at the heart of things, even more
> important.  But while you may not be able to judge a
> book by its cover, you're more apt to open one up that is
> presented interestingly and professionally than one
> type-written on newsprint and held together with
> paper-clips.
> 
> Mark
> 
> > Le 2 mai 2010 à 04:13, J. Landman Gay a écrit :
> > 
> >> But with caution. I'm in favor of keeping it out
> of the spotlight until there are many more apps available,
> hundreds hopefully. A few meager offerings is not
> inspiring.
> >> 
> >> And they have to be quality offerings. As someone
> who had to review and release hundreds of HC stacks to the
> AOL libraries, I know that 99% of what came in was pure
> crap. Because HC was so accessible, everyone thought they
> were a developer. Avoidance of even the suggestion of a HIG
> was the norm. Radio buttons used as checkboxes or
> pushbuttons ("because I like how they look,") menus missing
> or out of order ("I don't need an Edit menu,") known
> commercial app icons (MacWrite) used for private stack
> purposes ("go cd images",) you name it. Virtually everything
> about these stacks was wrong. Outsiders scoffed.
> Rightfully.
> >> 
> >> And then there were the kids. I wavered between
> disgust and delight. Their stacks were invariably flip card
> animations done with crude line drawings, generally on
> topics humorous to nine year olds. "Kill Barney" was very
> popular, we had probably a dozen of those, not counting the
> rejected ones. The weapon of choice varied from guns (all
> models) to swords and knives; one stick man farted old
> Barney to death. We had to make a separate library for these
> and tag them with editorial code words like "simple line
> drawings" so that everyone else would know not to download
> them.
> >> 
> >> This lack of professionalism in HC stacks was one
> of the reasons it was rarely regarded as a serious tool, and
> it gave HC a bad name generally. The number of really good
> stacks was pretty small. Unfair as it is, the quality of the
> output often reflects on the tools used rather than the
> authors. If there is ever a Rev app store, it needs to have
> lots of files, all of which pass a certain standard of
> professionalism. That means someone has to check

Re: RevStore

[Mark Swindell]

This is a very interesting post from someone who was in a position to know what 
was going on back then.  It confirms (at least for me) what I always felt to be 
the case, and why Apple ultimately let HC die on the vine.  Most coders of any 
language are not design experts, nor do they, of necessity,  have much going on 
in terms of artistic or aesthetic sensibilities.  Amateur coders maybe even 
less.  I recall getting shot down for offering this opinion about the dismal 
appearance of the majority of HC stacks on HC and SuperCard lists years ago.  
For Apple to have its name attached to awful-looking, poorly-written hypercard 
stacks was just not a smart enterprise move, no matter how empowering the HC 
platform to "the rest of us."

The same can be true for Rev stacks, though clearly the toolkit for 
nice-looking apps is much nicer.  Many of the examples in the User section 
might rise to the level of perhaps good proof-of-concept demonstrations, but 
many, if not most, look unprofessional.  That's not a knock on anyone, it's a 
subjective observation, but one that I think would be confirmed by most 
disinterested 3rd parties.  (Does it then become objective?)  I'm referring 
here, by the way, to stand-alone apps for public consumption, not 
business-related utilities, which probably account for a great deal of the 
income generated off Rev programming.

I think a great problem for Rev stacks is that they are mostly created by 
one-man or woman shops.  There are not teams with project directors, artists, 
photoshop experts, animators, etc.  (Scott Rossi may qualify as a team, in this 
scenario, but he is unique.) This is both liberating and constraining, funny 
how that works.  If there were more collaboration between graphic artists, 
design experts and programmers, perhaps the output would be more aesthetically 
viable.  But now we're dealing in big budgets.

Of course, this doesn't even touch on the functional aspect of the software, 
which is, at the heart of things, even more important.  But while you may not 
be able to judge a book by its cover, you're more apt to open one up that is 
presented interestingly and professionally than one type-written on newsprint 
and held together with paper-clips.

Mark

> Le 2 mai 2010 à 04:13, J. Landman Gay a écrit :
> 
>> But with caution. I'm in favor of keeping it out of the spotlight until 
>> there are many more apps available, hundreds hopefully. A few meager 
>> offerings is not inspiring.
>> 
>> And they have to be quality offerings. As someone who had to review and 
>> release hundreds of HC stacks to the AOL libraries, I know that 99% of what 
>> came in was pure crap. Because HC was so accessible, everyone thought they 
>> were a developer. Avoidance of even the suggestion of a HIG was the norm. 
>> Radio buttons used as checkboxes or pushbuttons ("because I like how they 
>> look,") menus missing or out of order ("I don't need an Edit menu,") known 
>> commercial app icons (MacWrite) used for private stack purposes ("go cd 
>> images",) you name it. Virtually everything about these stacks was wrong. 
>> Outsiders scoffed. Rightfully.
>> 
>> And then there were the kids. I wavered between disgust and delight. Their 
>> stacks were invariably flip card animations done with crude line drawings, 
>> generally on topics humorous to nine year olds. "Kill Barney" was very 
>> popular, we had probably a dozen of those, not counting the rejected ones. 
>> The weapon of choice varied from guns (all models) to swords and knives; one 
>> stick man farted old Barney to death. We had to make a separate library for 
>> these and tag them with editorial code words like "simple line drawings" so 
>> that everyone else would know not to download them.
>> 
>> This lack of professionalism in HC stacks was one of the reasons it was 
>> rarely regarded as a serious tool, and it gave HC a bad name generally. The 
>> number of really good stacks was pretty small. Unfair as it is, the quality 
>> of the output often reflects on the tools used rather than the authors. If 
>> there is ever a Rev app store, it needs to have lots of files, all of which 
>> pass a certain standard of professionalism. That means someone has to check 
>> and verify every submission, which would open a whole other can of worms.
>> 
>> I confess though, in retrospect I really do wish I'd saved a copy of "Man 
>> Gets Beheaded By a Ceiling Fan." You had to be there.

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RE: RevStore

[Robert Mann]

It seems one strenght of the apple store is to provide a security mechanism
for payment and for the app authentification. It's not just about setting up
an app store, there are services around it. But there is zygodact and for
the payment part, payPal seems pretty good by now.

As a first step, there is a treshold, a minimum number of apps, somebody or
runrev should keep track of all apps available and first step would be to
have a public counter showing how many apps, and a number set, above which e
revStore would be launched?

I suspect though that some developpers would rther NOT let know they used
runrev as a dev platform to keep  the curtain down... and stay away from the
kid platform effect related to hypercard... 

So far it is not so difficult to set up an individual store for mac & pc. 

Until.. ? To me the real move would be to provide a MULTI-PLATFORM revStore
for pc, mac AND mobiles, including iPhones (even if that requires to
jailBreak..)

(by the way I have yet not understood how the hell apple can tell wether an
app has been or not developped natively in xCode?)





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Re: RevStore

[René Micout]

YES !

Le 2 mai 2010 à 04:13, J. Landman Gay a écrit :

> But with caution. I'm in favor of keeping it out of the spotlight until there 
> are many more apps available, hundreds hopefully. A few meager offerings is 
> not inspiring.
> 
> And they have to be quality offerings. As someone who had to review and 
> release hundreds of HC stacks to the AOL libraries, I know that 99% of what 
> came in was pure crap. Because HC was so accessible, everyone thought they 
> were a developer. Avoidance of even the suggestion of a HIG was the norm. 
> Radio buttons used as checkboxes or pushbuttons ("because I like how they 
> look,") menus missing or out of order ("I don't need an Edit menu,") known 
> commercial app icons (MacWrite) used for private stack purposes ("go cd 
> images",) you name it. Virtually everything about these stacks was wrong. 
> Outsiders scoffed. Rightfully.
> 
> And then there were the kids. I wavered between disgust and delight. Their 
> stacks were invariably flip card animations done with crude line drawings, 
> generally on topics humorous to nine year olds. "Kill Barney" was very 
> popular, we had probably a dozen of those, not counting the rejected ones. 
> The weapon of choice varied from guns (all models) to swords and knives; one 
> stick man farted old Barney to death. We had to make a separate library for 
> these and tag them with editorial code words like "simple line drawings" so 
> that everyone else would know not to download them.
> 
> This lack of professionalism in HC stacks was one of the reasons it was 
> rarely regarded as a serious tool, and it gave HC a bad name generally. The 
> number of really good stacks was pretty small. Unfair as it is, the quality 
> of the output often reflects on the tools used rather than the authors. If 
> there is ever a Rev app store, it needs to have lots of files, all of which 
> pass a certain standard of professionalism. That means someone has to check 
> and verify every submission, which would open a whole other can of worms.
> 
> I confess though, in retrospect I really do wish I'd saved a copy of "Man 
> Gets Beheaded By a Ceiling Fan." You had to be there.

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RE: RevStore

[Lynn Fredricks]

> I agree they're useful ones.  When people look at a tool like 
> Rev they want to see there's a sizable afternarket as an 
> indicator of viability. 
>So it benefits RunRev more than anyone else to improve the 
> presentation of third-party offerings all over their site.

It probably won't be too long until we get Franklin 3D for Runrev
(http://www.franklin3d.com) into the RevStore.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 


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Re: RevStore

[Robert Brenstein]

And its stupid. Because the best way to promote a development 
environment is to promote/ sell the apps that have been coded with 
it.
I am waiting to see a revStore. With everything on it. This way John 
Doe (not to mention Steve Jobs)  will be able to judge if apps 
developed with revolution can be great, inspiring, or if it's all 
crap. An the more apps there will be, the better it will be for 
everybody.


revStore is a great idea for selling stuff for RunRev community of 
developers. RevSelect offers products hand-picked by RunRev, I think 
of them as officially sanctioned extensions to RunRev products. 
revStore could be more of a central marketplace, may be even with a 
place with stuff that is now given away for free.


revStore is not a good idea for selling general/end-user apps made 
with RunRev. This could be better handled by having a Showcase area 
on the RunRev's web side. On one hand, there are the issues that 
Jacque described from her AOL past. On the other hand, there is whole 
spectrum of issues with competing with other venues that sell desktop 
software. There is nothing binding users fo products made with 
RunRev, like using same hardware, so there is nothing to draw them to 
revStore. On the contrary, bulk of RunRev-based products are for 
disjointed vertical markets. And I dare say that app users by large 
do not give a damn what tools their program was made with as long as 
it works and does what they need.


Robert
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Re: RevStore

[Pierre Sahores]

Le 2 mai 2010 à 04:13, J. Landman Gay a écrit :

> This lack of professionalism in HC stacks was one of the reasons it was 
> rarely regarded as a serious tool, and it gave HC a bad name generally. The 
> number of really good stacks was pretty small. Unfair as it is, the quality 
> of the output often reflects on the tools used rather than the authors. If 
> there is ever a Rev app store, it needs to have lots of files, all of which 
> pass a certain standard of professionalism. That means someone has to check 
> and verify every submission, which would open a whole other can of worms.

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






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Re: RevStore

[Pierre Sahores]

Great Post ! RunRev could probably get lots more market's visibility in acting 
in this proposed way. More :

Because RunRev is the most well informed about what Rev is used to devlop, the 
company knows too what B2B vertical-market and n-tier solutions would help to 
expand the Rev market penetration. It would be realy helpfull to have Rev 
submitting us, time to time, a list of the categories of apps whose are felting 
for yet to suit this possible way to go to enforce a professional-grade image 
of the Rev platform.

In betwin other considerations, we can expect that the revWeb plug-in is well 
suited to become an incredible powerfull platform for distribued and cloud 
computing services and applications.

Kind Regards,

Pierre

Le 1 mai 2010 à 22:45, François Chaplais a écrit :

> Now let us forget about the iPhone and concentrate on the App Store.
> What does RunRev do to promote, distribute and sell software that has been 
> developed with revolution? I mean the traditional stuff: desktop applications.
> The answer: nothing (as far as I know).
> 
> And its stupid. Because the best way to promote a development environment is 
> to promote/ sell the apps that have been coded with it.
> I am waiting to see a revStore. With everything on it. This way John Doe (not 
> to mention Steve Jobs)  will be able to judge if apps developed with 
> revolution can be great, inspiring, or if it's all crap. An the more apps 
> there will be, the better it will be for everybody.
> 
> Heather, I put you on copy as I think you are the best person in the rev team 
> to ponder on that.
> 
> Best regards
>   François

--
Pierre Sahores
mobile : (33) 6 03 95 77 70

www.wrds.com
www.sahores-conseil.com






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Re: RevStore

[René Micout]

Une bonne idée à creuser > c'est un travail de mineur ça ! ;-)
A good idea to dig > this is a pit worker's job ! ;-)

Le 1 mai 2010 à 22:45, François Chaplais a écrit :

> There has been a number of threads about Apple and revMobile that really 
> tempted be to go trolling and flaming...
> I have let some time pass, and I think it is time to reverse the question and 
> forget about Steve Jobs.
> 
> The topic is: one of the reasons of the success of the iPhone is the AppStore.
> Here, law abiding developers can find a place to market their product. If the 
> software is free, the developer is not charged for anything; if it is not, 
> Apple takes 30%, if I recall correctly. For that amount, Apple takes cares of 
> credit card handling, manages the currency exchange rates for you, pays 
> relevant taxes like VAT, etc...
> 
> Now let us forget about the iPhone and concentrate on the App Store.
> What does RunRev do to promote, distribute and sell software that has been 
> developed with revolution? I mean the traditional stuff: desktop applications.
> The answer: nothing (as far as I know).
> 
> And its stupid. Because the best way to promote a development environment is 
> to promote/ sell the apps that have been coded with it.
> I am waiting to see a revStore. With everything on it. This way John Doe (not 
> to mention Steve Jobs)  will be able to judge if apps developed with 
> revolution can be great, inspiring, or if it's all crap. An the more apps 
> there will be, the better it will be for everybody.
> 
> Heather, I put you on copy as I think you are the best person in the rev team 
> to ponder on that.
> 
> Best regards
>   François
> 
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> preferences:
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Re: RevStore

[Marty Knapp]

My boys made games like that when they were younger! lol - that brings 
back some funny memories.


Marty



I confess though, in retrospect I really do wish I'd saved a copy of 
"Man Gets Beheaded By a Ceiling Fan." You had to be there.




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Re: RevStore

[J. Landman Gay]

Richard Gaskin wrote:
When people look at a tool like Rev they 
want to see there's a sizable afternarket as an indicator of viability. 
  So it benefits RunRev more than anyone else to improve the 
presentation of third-party offerings all over their site.


But with caution. I'm in favor of keeping it out of the spotlight until 
there are many more apps available, hundreds hopefully. A few meager 
offerings is not inspiring.


And they have to be quality offerings. As someone who had to review and 
release hundreds of HC stacks to the AOL libraries, I know that 99% of 
what came in was pure crap. Because HC was so accessible, everyone 
thought they were a developer. Avoidance of even the suggestion of a HIG 
was the norm. Radio buttons used as checkboxes or pushbuttons ("because 
I like how they look,") menus missing or out of order ("I don't need an 
Edit menu,") known commercial app icons (MacWrite) used for private 
stack purposes ("go cd images",) you name it. Virtually everything about 
these stacks was wrong. Outsiders scoffed. Rightfully.


And then there were the kids. I wavered between disgust and delight. 
Their stacks were invariably flip card animations done with crude line 
drawings, generally on topics humorous to nine year olds. "Kill Barney" 
was very popular, we had probably a dozen of those, not counting the 
rejected ones. The weapon of choice varied from guns (all models) to 
swords and knives; one stick man farted old Barney to death. We had to 
make a separate library for these and tag them with editorial code words 
like "simple line drawings" so that everyone else would know not to 
download them.


This lack of professionalism in HC stacks was one of the reasons it was 
rarely regarded as a serious tool, and it gave HC a bad name generally. 
The number of really good stacks was pretty small. Unfair as it is, the 
quality of the output often reflects on the tools used rather than the 
authors. If there is ever a Rev app store, it needs to have lots of 
files, all of which pass a certain standard of professionalism. That 
means someone has to check and verify every submission, which would open 
a whole other can of worms.


I confess though, in retrospect I really do wish I'd saved a copy of 
"Man Gets Beheaded By a Ceiling Fan." You had to be there.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | jac...@hyperactivesw.com
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: RevStore

[Richard Gaskin]

François Chaplais wrote:

> RevOnline (the one I know from studio) requires revolution and has
> a crappy interface. Plus you cannot do business there.
>
> http://revonline2.runrev.com/ : just have a look at the top downloads
> and the the screen shot: it's ugly. Plus it does not sell.
>
> I assume revselect is
> http://www.runrev.com/products/related-software/
> 15 apps: ha! Is that all?

The number of products in RevSelect isn't a RunRev problem; that's a 
developer problem.  Like that AppStore, that's where developer sell 
their wares, so if you want to see more there write some.  :)


Ugly can be fixed, and since the RevSelect stuff is already sold through 
their store, linking it from the front page of the store is a two-minute 
job for someone there.


Have you considered writing RunRev with your suggestions?

I agree they're useful ones.  When people look at a tool like Rev they 
want to see there's a sizable afternarket as an indicator of viability. 
  So it benefits RunRev more than anyone else to improve the 
presentation of third-party offerings all over their site.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv


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Re: RevStore

[Jerry Daniels]

RevSelect is really about add-ons to Rev. 

I considered opening a stack store and ran the business case. A lot of work and 
sizable risk. Still can't get it out of my head,tho. I would be as dictatorial 
as Steve Jobs, probably. 

Best,

Jerry Daniels

Use tRev's buy link during your free trial to get 20% off:
http://reveditor.com/tag/shouldiswitch

On May 1, 2010, at 5:09 PM, François Chaplais 
 wrote:

> 
> Le 1 mai 2010 à 23:24, Richard Gaskin a écrit :
> 
>> François Chaplais wrote:
>> 
>>> What does RunRev do to promote, distribute and sell software that
>>> has been developed with revolution? I mean the traditional stuff:
>>> desktop applications.
>>> The answer: nothing (as far as I know).
>> 
>> What are RevOnline and RevSelect?
>> 
>> --
> 
> RevOnline (the one I know from studio) requires revolution and has a crappy 
> interface. Plus you cannot do business there.
> 
> http://revonline2.runrev.com/ : just have a look at the top downloads and the 
> the screen shot: it's ugly. Plus it does not sell.
> 
> I assume revselect is
> http://www.runrev.com/products/related-software/
> 15 apps: ha! Is that all?
> 
> The revstore should be accessible  directly from the "store" tab of the 
> runrev site. At this time, unless you *know* that the pages for revonline and 
> revselect exist, there is no chance to find them.
> 
> The truth is that runrev does not help the promotion of its customers'apps. 
> The result is that it gives the impression that it his a second class 
> development tool.
> 
> 
> I have never been aggressive towards runrev, I have a 5 year mac renewal 
> Studio license, a 5 year renewal revmobile license. I do not like saying what 
> I said about runrev. But if were a newbie to runrev, I would say "yechh" when 
> looking at the two previously mentioned pages, provide I can find them.
> 
> An thanks for the feedback, Richard.
> 
> Best regards
>   François
> 
> 
> 
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Re: RevStore

[François Chaplais]

Le 1 mai 2010 à 23:24, Richard Gaskin a écrit :

> François Chaplais wrote:
> 
> > What does RunRev do to promote, distribute and sell software that
> > has been developed with revolution? I mean the traditional stuff:
> > desktop applications.
> > The answer: nothing (as far as I know).
> 
> What are RevOnline and RevSelect?
> 
> --

RevOnline (the one I know from studio) requires revolution and has a crappy 
interface. Plus you cannot do business there.

http://revonline2.runrev.com/ : just have a look at the top downloads and the 
the screen shot: it's ugly. Plus it does not sell.

I assume revselect is
http://www.runrev.com/products/related-software/
15 apps: ha! Is that all?

The revstore should be accessible  directly from the "store" tab of the runrev 
site. At this time, unless you *know* that the pages for revonline and 
revselect exist, there is no chance to find them.

The truth is that runrev does not help the promotion of its customers'apps. The 
result is that it gives the impression that it his a second class development 
tool.


I have never been aggressive towards runrev, I have a 5 year mac renewal Studio 
license, a 5 year renewal revmobile license. I do not like saying what I said 
about runrev. But if were a newbie to runrev, I would say "yechh" when looking 
at the two previously mentioned pages, provide I can find them.

An thanks for the feedback, Richard.

Best regards
François



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Re: RevStore

[Richard Gaskin]

François Chaplais wrote:

> What does RunRev do to promote, distribute and sell software that
> has been developed with revolution? I mean the traditional stuff:
> desktop applications.
> The answer: nothing (as far as I know).

What are RevOnline and RevSelect?

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Fourth World
 Rev training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com
 Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com
 revJournal blog: http://revjournal.com/blog.irv
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RevStore

[François Chaplais]

There has been a number of threads about Apple and revMobile that really 
tempted be to go trolling and flaming...
I have let some time pass, and I think it is time to reverse the question and 
forget about Steve Jobs.

The topic is: one of the reasons of the success of the iPhone is the AppStore.
Here, law abiding developers can find a place to market their product. If the 
software is free, the developer is not charged for anything; if it is not, 
Apple takes 30%, if I recall correctly. For that amount, Apple takes cares of 
credit card handling, manages the currency exchange rates for you, pays 
relevant taxes like VAT, etc...

Now let us forget about the iPhone and concentrate on the App Store.
What does RunRev do to promote, distribute and sell software that has been 
developed with revolution? I mean the traditional stuff: desktop applications.
The answer: nothing (as far as I know).

And its stupid. Because the best way to promote a development environment is to 
promote/ sell the apps that have been coded with it.
I am waiting to see a revStore. With everything on it. This way John Doe (not 
to mention Steve Jobs)  will be able to judge if apps developed with revolution 
can be great, inspiring, or if it's all crap. An the more apps there will be, 
the better it will be for everybody.

Heather, I put you on copy as I think you are the best person in the rev team 
to ponder on that.

Best regards
François

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