Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Subject: Re: Transcript should be called Transcript Reply-To: How to use Revolution use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Colin. I was saying, pointedly, that the name itself did not stick; therefore the branding was rather less successful than, say, Kleenex. I did not mean to imply that we were losing our faculties. I am actually disheartened at the new name because I thiink it matters. But maybe like Avenue of the Americas in Manhattan, perhaps nobody will ever use it. Craig I mourned the death of Transcript in 2006 http://www.mail-archive.com/use-revolution@lists.runrev.com/ msg81939.html for very selfish reasons. I'm not sure I like it persisting as a nosferatu. How about T++ or T# ;-) David Glasgow ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Transcript should be called Transcript
There was a short thread just a little while ago where it was mentioned that the name of the language itself was important. That is, in order to be taken seriously, to compete with C++ or Fortran, in other words to break away from the hobby-like persona of Hypertalk, the name of the language had to convey power. Had to, since it did not appear arcane in structure and syntax, at least be named like it was raw machine code. Forget substance. HT was saddled with scripting instead of programming (note my use of quoted literals) to make it seem less daunting. On purpose, imagine. This greatly contributed to its relegation to being kids stuff. Hypertalk already sounded like a skateboard. It was the Hyper, I guess. Forget substance. (note the verbosity). Mention fun or elegance at your peril; it will not be taken seriously. Human beings (in my opinion the worst sort of people) probably need the language to have a power name. Sort of like a power suit. I spent an evening playing Rev with a real programmer who never heard of it. He loved it, asking me about inheritance and polymorphism. We wrote gadgets ALL night, playing especially with expression evaluation, which blew him away. He learned fast. Really fast. One convert. I vote for Transcript. It already exists and is no more homey than Java. It is a strong, no-nonsense name. Craig Newman In a message dated 8/13/09 5:53:11 AM, m.schonewi...@economy-x-talk.com writes: I don't know, Sims. I think it was changed into Revolution, but I have also heard revTalk. Most of the time I speak of Transcript, though. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
On Aug 13, 2009, at 9:18 AM, dunb...@aol.com wrote: I vote for Transcript. It already exists and is no more homey than Java. It is a strong, no-nonsense name. But can you remember what Kevin said in that thread? What was the new name that he explained had been thought about carefully? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Colin. No. I'll look. But I remember I did not like it. Craig In a message dated 8/13/09 9:34:47 AM, co...@rcn.com writes: But can you remember what Kevin said in that thread? What was the new name that he explained had been thought about carefully? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Craig, I agree 100% when you say: HT was saddled with scripting instead of programming ... to make it seem less daunting. On purpose, imagine. This greatly contributed to its relegation to being kids stuff. Hypertalk alreadysounded like a skateboard. That being the case, why would you want to call the Rev language Transcript? Paul Looney On Aug 13, 2009, at 6:18 AM, dunb...@aol.com wrote: There was a short thread just a little while ago where it was mentioned that the name of the language itself was important. That is, in order to be taken seriously, to compete with C++ or Fortran, in other words to break away from the hobby-like persona of Hypertalk, the name of the language had to convey power. Had to, since it did not appear arcane in structure and syntax, at least be named like it was raw machine code. Forget substance. HT was saddled with scripting instead of programming (note my use of quoted literals) to make it seem less daunting. On purpose, imagine. This greatly contributed to its relegation to being kids stuff. Hypertalk already sounded like a skateboard. It was the Hyper, I guess. Forget substance. (note the verbosity). Mention fun or elegance at your peril; it will not be taken seriously. Human beings (in my opinion the worst sort of people) probably need the language to have a power name. Sort of like a power suit. I spent an evening playing Rev with a real programmer who never heard of it. He loved it, asking me about inheritance and polymorphism. We wrote gadgets ALL night, playing especially with expression evaluation, which blew him away. He learned fast. Really fast. One convert. I vote for Transcript. It already exists and is no more homey than Java. It is a strong, no-nonsense name. Craig Newman In a message dated 8/13/09 5:53:11 AM, m.schonewi...@economy-x- talk.com writes: I don't know, Sims. I think it was changed into Revolution, but I have also heard revTalk. Most of the time I speak of Transcript, though. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Colin.. And that neither of us can remember is not a good sign. Craig In a message dated 8/13/09 9:34:47 AM, co...@rcn.com writes: But can you remember what Kevin said in that thread? What was the new name that he explained had been thought about carefully? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
On 13/08/2009 14:34, Colin Holgate co...@rcn.com wrote: But can you remember what Kevin said in that thread? What was the new name that he explained had been thought about carefully? revTalk Kind regards, Kevin Kevin Miller ~ ke...@runrev.com ~ http://www.runrev.com/ Runtime Revolution - User-Centric Development Tools ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
revtalk? UGH! ARRRGH! Why not call it Hypertalk instead? NO TALK!!! Even script is better than AARRGGGHH!!! Craig Newman In a message dated 8/13/09 9:46:21 AM, ke...@runrev.com writes: revTalk ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
That must have been Revolution. I like transcript and those who think that's too long or not nerdy enough can call it T ;-) Note that R is taken already. -- Best regards, Mark Schonewille Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering http://economy-x-talk.com Download Snapper Screen Recorder at http://snapper.economy-x-talk.com On 13 aug 2009, at 15:34, Colin Holgate wrote: On Aug 13, 2009, at 9:18 AM, dunb...@aol.com wrote: I vote for Transcript. It already exists and is no more homey than Java. It is a strong, no-nonsense name. But can you remember what Kevin said in that thread? What was the new name that he explained had been thought about carefully? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
RE: Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
RevCode? /H -Original Message- From: Colin Holgate co...@rcn.com On Aug 13, 2009, at 9:18 AM, dunb...@aol.com wrote: I vote for Transcript. It already exists and is no more homey than Java. It is a strong, no-nonsense name. But can you remember what Kevin said in that thread? What was the new name that he explained had been thought about carefully? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Paul. Are you being a little tongue-in-cheek? Don't know you that well. If it was Colin, it would be a sure thing. If not, I think that Transcript hides the script pretty nicely, being a well recognized word. Craig In a message dated 8/13/09 9:44:19 AM, supp...@ahsomme.com writes: That being the case, why would you want to call the Rev language Transcript? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
How about calling it RevScript? Unless of course one really wants to cover up the term Script, then I'd vote for RevCode. RevTalk sounds like a chat room, not computer code! Just one of those issues that happens when we all don't own the company. Oh well.. Just my 2 cents. Rick On Aug 13, 2009, at 9:56 AM, Hugh Senior wrote: RevCode? /H -Original Message- From: Colin Holgate co...@rcn.com On Aug 13, 2009, at 9:18 AM, dunb...@aol.com wrote: I vote for Transcript. It already exists and is no more homey than Java. It is a strong, no-nonsense name. But can you remember what Kevin said in that thread? What was the new name that he explained had been thought about carefully? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution __ Rick Harrison You can buy my $10 music album Funny Time Machine digital CD on the iTunes Store Now! To visit the iTunes Store now to listen to samples of my CD please click on the following link. (Please note you must have iTunes installed on your computer for this link to work.) http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=213668290 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
I had innocently asked the question because I really did not remember what RunRev had decided upon. A potential client via an email asked me what language I would use when making something for him. I really did not remember what the dang new name was! I need the job and felt I had to answer right away. I went with Transcript as after quite some time nobody answered. sims ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
On Aug 13, 2009, at 9:45 AM, dunb...@aol.com wrote: Colin.. And that neither of us can remember is not a good sign. Craig Craig who? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
On Aug 13, 2009, at 10:23 AM, Jim Sims wrote: A potential client via an email asked me what language I would use when making something for him. I really did not remember what the dang new name was! I need the job and felt I had to answer right away. I went with Transcript as after quite some time nobody answered. That's ok, just use version 3.5. It uses Transcript. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Colin. I was saying, pointedly, that the name itself did not stick; therefore the branding was rather less successful than, say, Kleenex. I did not mean to imply that we were losing our faculties. I am actually disheartened at the new name because I thiink it matters. But maybe like Avenue of the Americas in Manhattan, perhaps nobody will ever use it. Craig In a message dated 8/13/09 10:36:57 AM, co...@rcn.com writes: Craig who? ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
On Aug 13, 2009, at 10:53 AM, dunb...@aol.com wrote: I am actually disheartened at the new name because I thiink it matters. But maybe like Avenue of the Americas in Manhattan, perhaps nobody will ever use it. You're saying that revTalk is like a 6th Ave Generation programming language? Personally I never liked Transcript, it was way too clever a name, so I don't mind. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
On Aug 13, 2009, at 7:18 AM, dunb...@aol.com wrote: There was a short thread just a little while ago where it was mentioned that the name of the language itself was important. That is, in order to be taken seriously, to compete with C++ or Fortran, in other words to break away from the hobby-like persona of Hypertalk, the name of the language had to convey power. Had to, since it did not appear arcane in structure and syntax, at least be named like it was raw machine code. Forget substance. HT was saddled with scripting instead of programming (note my use of quoted literals) to make it seem less daunting. On purpose, imagine. This greatly contributed to its relegation to being kids stuff. Hypertalk already sounded like a skateboard. It was the Hyper, I guess. Forget substance. (note the verbosity). Mention fun or elegance at your peril; it will not be taken seriously. Human beings (in my opinion the worst sort of people) probably need the language to have a power name. Sort of like a power suit. I spent an evening playing Rev with a real programmer who never heard of it. He loved it, asking me about inheritance and polymorphism. We wrote gadgets ALL night, playing especially with expression evaluation, which blew him away. He learned fast. Really fast. One convert. I vote for Transcript. It already exists and is no more homey than Java. It is a strong, no-nonsense name. You all saw Kevin's post. It's a done deal: revTalk. Craig, here's why I think your (and others') concerns are probably outdated: Scripting: Maybe it was a dirty word in the '80s and '90s. But that was then. Today we have JavaScript and ActionScript. Even real programmers take them seriously. So scripting doesn't carry the negative connotation it used to. HyperCard and HyperTalk are ancient history. The new generation of programmers might have heard the names, but probably know next to nothing about them. People will judge Revolution on its merits when they see what it can do. And they'll project their impression onto the scripting language, whatever it's named. Do you think your programmer friend will think Rev is less cool when he hears revTalk? That said, the switch from Transcript to Revolution barely caused a blip on the radar screen. I don't think this change for the scripting language will either. My $.02. Best regards, Devin Devin Asay Humanities Technology and Research Support Center Brigham Young University ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
I usually say Runtime Revolution IDE. Most people here (in Europe) have at least heard about it. But it is called Revolution in the tiobe programming community index (http://www.tiobe.com/index.php/content/paperinfo/tpci/index.html). And there is absolutely no reason to avoid word script. Not the name of the language but the result of its use in business is what matters... There are other languages widely in use with non-aggressive and totally non-cool names also including the word script like Smalltalk, JavaScript, JavaFX Script, ABAP, Lua, Ada, Alice, Focus, Groovy, Boo, Clean, Euphoria, Squirrel and even MOO and MUMPS (!!!) etc... All the best Viktoras Jim Sims wrote: I had innocently asked the question because I really did not remember what RunRev had decided upon. A potential client via an email asked me what language I would use when making something for him. I really did not remember what the dang new name was! I need the job and felt I had to answer right away. I went with Transcript as after quite some time nobody answered. sims ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
I so hope this turns out to be true. I spent years defending HC. I don't want to have to defend Rev. Craig Newman In a message dated 8/13/09 11:39:12 AM, vikto...@ekoinf.net writes: Not the name of the language but the result of its use in business is what matters... ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
I cannot see why there is a need to have a name that is distinct from the IDE unless, like Chairman Mao, we are going to let a thousand flowers bloom (and we all know what that led to - I suppose the equivalent of Ballet dancers with broken legs [lest we forget, now we are all making fast and furious love to the Mainland Chinese] is programmers with smashed fingers). I tell people who want to know that I work WITH Runtime Revolution, and that my programs are CODED IN Runtime Revolution. Yes, RevTalk, can sound a bit like a chat client, and Transcript sounds like an official translation with an Apostil from the embassy. I, personally like RevTalk, but for silly, emotional reasons. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Someone just suggested to me that RevTalk sounds like an online forum for Reverends! LOL Just thought I'd lighten things up. Rick On Aug 13, 2009, at 12:06 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: I cannot see why there is a need to have a name that is distinct from the IDE unless, like Chairman Mao, we are going to let a thousand flowers bloom (and we all know what that led to - I suppose the equivalent of Ballet dancers with broken legs [lest we forget, now we are all making fast and furious love to the Mainland Chinese] is programmers with smashed fingers). I tell people who want to know that I work WITH Runtime Revolution, and that my programs are CODED IN Runtime Revolution. Yes, RevTalk, can sound a bit like a chat client, and Transcript sounds like an official translation with an Apostil from the embassy. I, personally like RevTalk, but for silly, emotional reasons. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution __ Rick Harrison You can buy my $10 music album Funny Time Machine digital CD on the iTunes Store Now! To visit the iTunes Store now to listen to samples of my CD please click on the following link. (Please note you must have iTunes installed on your computer for this link to work.) http://phobos.apple.com/WebObjects/MZStore.woa/wa/viewAlbum?playListId=213668290 ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
And, of course, if the new server-side stuff gets popular, lots of people will be calling it irev. Which also sounds like some kind of priestly activity, or maybe Apple's new sermon-processor... :) Mark On 13 Aug 2009, at 17:16, Rick Harrison wrote: Someone just suggested to me that RevTalk sounds like an online forum for Reverends! LOL Just thought I'd lighten things up. Rick On Aug 13, 2009, at 12:06 PM, Richmond Mathewson wrote: ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Devin- Thursday, August 13, 2009, 8:10:19 AM, you wrote: That said, the switch from Transcript to Revolution barely caused a blip on the radar screen. I think that was because nobody paid any attention to that name change. Do you recall anyone actually referring to the language as Revolution? Thankfully that fad passed into obscurity. RevTalk sounds like a motivational seminar for a sales team... -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
On Aug 13, 2009, at 10:45 AM, Mark Wieder wrote: Devin- Thursday, August 13, 2009, 8:10:19 AM, you wrote: That said, the switch from Transcript to Revolution barely caused a blip on the radar screen. I think that was because nobody paid any attention to that name change. Do you recall anyone actually referring to the language as Revolution? Thankfully that fad passed into obscurity. RevTalk sounds like a motivational seminar for a sales team... I dunno... I sorta like the chat room for clerics... Devin ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
My biggest priority for a new name is that it should be a sufficiently good choice to avoid being changed again. We've been through MetaTalk - Transcript - Revolution - (new name); Each time the name is changed, a whole lot of efforts to raising awareness is lost, and useful information becomes further fragmented and hard to find. Personally I never took any notice of the last change and continued to refer to the language as Revolution. No doubt some still refer to it as MetaTalk. My second biggest priority for a name is that it be unique and hence searchable. Revolution and Transcript both failed that test. If Transcript hadn't, I'd have argued more strongly for going back to it in accordance with the above. RevTalk meets that test. The context for the new name is that RunRev are renaming all their products to clarify them, and I think that's a good thing. By renaming them all to unique compound pseudo words, they also become more searchable: ie revStudio is better than Revolution Studio. My remaining concern is that it would be better if the language name was orthoganal to, rather than in line with, the various product names: revMedia revStudio revEnterprise revWeb revlets revTalk RevSelect * RunRev * RunRev is easy to see as something that goes across all the above. In an ideal world (ie, one in which I am in charge of everything) revTalk would be more distinguished - actually I'd have suggested reversing all the others to mediaRev, studioRev etc) rather than looking like it's one among the set. Beyond these three concerns, while I have minor views and preferences among revCode, revScript, revTalk etc, I think that's the least important aspect of the name. But it's all moot anyway: RunRev have launched a new name, revTalk. That's what it is now. Ben * capitalisation of these elements is less obviously fixed, at least in the current iteration of the RunRev (or runrev) website. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
It's not really our decision, no matter how long we have used HyperTalk/Metacard/Revolution for Runrev did their survey and asked us what we thought about the various options. If someone missed their opportunity to voice an opinion at that stage it's unfortunate. But even for those of us who did voice an opinion, it was just our opinion (at this stage I can't even remember what preferences I expressed). Personally I liked 'transcript' as the name of the language, because it conveyed the fundamental aims of being cross-platform and being one of the most dynamically scriptable (as opposed to compilable) languages. Having said that, I'm quite sure that having a distinctive term like 'irev' or 'revtalk' (as much as they might go against my aesthetics or philosophy) is going to serve Runrev the company (and hopefully Revolution the IDE) well. If Revolution is going to become a fish in a bigger pond of web scripting/browser plugins, people are going to need to be able to search on google/yahoo for information, references, blogs, etc. Words like 'Revolution' or 'Transcript' by themselves return far too many hits that are not relevant for prospective users. Just my 2c. Bernard On Thu, Aug 13, 2009 at 2:51 PM, dunb...@aol.com wrote: revtalk? UGH! ARRRGH! Why not call it Hypertalk instead? NO TALK!!! Even script is better than AARRGGGHH!!! Craig Newman ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
On Aug 13, 2009, at 6:47 PM, Devin Asay wrote: I dunno... I sorta like the chat room for clerics... I wish I never started this thread. Now I'll always be thinking Reverend Ike when I hear iRev. Dang. sims ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
have just tried googling for revTalk. So far it got 736 hits. Many are articles or discussions about, well, revTalk, some of them about radiators, but mostly about runtime revolution, and some quite interesting. That's good :-) Viktoras ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
On Aug 13, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Jim Sims wrote: On Aug 13, 2009, at 6:47 PM, Devin Asay wrote: I dunno... I sorta like the chat room for clerics... I wish I never started this thread. Now I'll always be thinking Reverend Ike when I hear iRev. Okay, how about something cooler--a chat board for drag racing!! Go, Speed Racer! Devin ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Jim Sims wrote: On Aug 13, 2009, at 6:47 PM, Devin Asay wrote: I dunno... I sorta like the chat room for clerics... The simile could be extended: RevEnterprise as the Cathedral of Revolution RevStudio as the Abbey of Revolution RevMedia as the Las Vegas Drive-In Wedding Chapel of Revolution and MetaCard as the Heretical Bunch. - Of course after the world-domination of revTalk we would have the inevitable Reformation with such things as: RevProd (the version where there is a move away from the trinitarian emphasis on Stack, Object and Script towards a more simplistic view of everything subsisting in the St**k - and, of course, we write THE NAME THAT CANNOT BE UTTERED in this way to preserve its sanctity -). ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Devin Asay wrote: On Aug 13, 2009, at 10:54 AM, Jim Sims wrote: On Aug 13, 2009, at 6:47 PM, Devin Asay wrote: I dunno... I sorta like the chat room for clerics... I wish I never started this thread. Now I'll always be thinking Reverend Ike when I hear iRev. Okay, how about something cooler--a chat board for drag racing!! Go, Speed Racer! Devin Oh, My God, and I thought I was the only one who wore DRAG while he was programming . . . LOL ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Richmond wrote: I cannot see why there is a need to have a name that is distinct from the IDE... Because words have meaning. Forgive the seeming tautology, but there's a point to this: The programming language is not the same thing as the IDE, or even as the engine on which the IDE sits. While all three are inextricably bound together, each is a separate thing; each deserves some way to refer to it without confusing it for something else. The problem many had with using Revolution to describe both the product and its language is that it removed any concise way to distinguish exactly what it was you were talking about. Now with RevMedia, RevStudio, and RevEnterprise as the product names and RevTalk as the language name we have the branding consistency that was desired but without the ambiguity. Devin's points about *Talk are spot-on, IMO. I rarely meet anyone who's even heard of HyperCard any more, and since we're talking about a language whose main selling point is its English-like syntax, using *Talk makes that clearer than *Code or even *Script. RunRev Ltd. has undertaken a good deal revision to both their branding and the product line over the years, but I can honestly say this is the first time I feel the changes have unqualified merit. RevMedia, the browser plugin, and the server engine are all free, things which some of us have been advocating for years as essential to evangelizing the language. The branding across the product line is more consistent than ever, and at long last uses terms which don't pull up 30 pages of non-Rev-related results in SERPs. A+ across the board. MetaCard as the Heretical Bunch. Know the engine. Trust the engine. Use the engine. ;) Reduce the differences between development and runtime, and you reduce time-to-market. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
viktoras- Thursday, August 13, 2009, 10:06:31 AM, you wrote: have just tried googling for revTalk. So far it got 736 hits. Many are articles or discussions about, well, revTalk, some of them about radiators, but mostly about runtime revolution, and some quite interesting. That's good :-) You must have a different Google from what I'm using. I just tried it, got 5190 hits, and the only thing I've found so far even remotely related to runrev (aside from the PR releases from July) is a mail-archive link to this discussion. Otherwise I'm seeing hits about ruby, snowmobiles, leptons... I see that while revtalk.com is registered but not in use, revtalk.net is apparently up for grabs... -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Hi Mark, well, now I have 408 hits, but on 10th page it indicates. Ok, its on www.google.lt. And 5190 hits from www.google.ru, google.de. But again only 408 hits on www.google.jp... Indeed these are mostly press releases, although some 3rd-party discussions like this one: http://www.directorforum.com/showthread.php?t=5023. When I choose the last results' page google.jp now indicates 116, google.lt 88 hits. Results page 10-th indicates 740 matches. Buggy google?.. Viktoras Mark Wieder wrote: viktoras- Thursday, August 13, 2009, 10:06:31 AM, you wrote: have just tried googling for revTalk. So far it got 736 hits. Many are articles or discussions about, well, revTalk, some of them about radiators, but mostly about runtime revolution, and some quite interesting. That's good :-) You must have a different Google from what I'm using. I just tried it, got 5190 hits, and the only thing I've found so far even remotely related to runrev (aside from the PR releases from July) is a mail-archive link to this discussion. Otherwise I'm seeing hits about ruby, snowmobiles, leptons... I see that while revtalk.com is registered but not in use, revtalk.net is apparently up for grabs... ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Well, I 'googled' revTalk, and apart from the chap
with the snow-mobile :)
I got lots of English-like programming language. . .
Which, while, possibly, attracting some people,
WILL drive away quite a few more.
Facetious section following.
RichmondTalk; the new English-like programming language.
Examples code in RichmondTalk ('RTalk' for REAL programmers):
Get me my coffee!
Please, put sugar in my coffee.
This tastes like muck.
Serious point approaching.
My 'RichmondTalk', apart from antagonising my wife,
would not do much good anywhere. However, it is
English-like.
Now we all know that some programming languages look like
goddledygook except to the initiated . . .
However, the language used in Runtime Revolution (writes he, delicately
sidestepping the controversy) is nothing like 'RichmondTalk', and
nothing like Zilog.
First of all; in computer programming languages everything
must be explicitly stated, while in human languages so much
is implicit, or is encoded in non-verbal ways.
IFF, Runtime Revolution want to carry on appealing to the
Saturday-afternoon hobbyist crowd then 'English-like' might
be OK.
BUT, I wonder (apart from the Las Vegas Drive-In Wedding Chapel)
how many people who are prepared to pay £125 are Saturday-afternoon
hobbyists.
While I DON'T think revTalk sounds like kiddy-time (although it does
sound a bit like the Synod of the Church of Scotland), I do think
that the continued emphasis on 'English-like' maybe a mistake . . .
especially as so much of the more recherche revTalk scripts look
nothing like English. . . :)
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Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Hi, I'm one of those Saturday-afternoon hobbyists that have invested in Rev. I've always been interested in programming but I've never coded anything major. There were mainly four things that in the end made me invest: 1) Rapid prototyping and development - I could write an simple utility in an hour instead of a week and a competent application in a relatively short while 2) Cross platform - I use a Mac but most people I knew (and work) used Windows PC's so that came in very handy 3) Chunks - Compared to the other languages I've tried this is by far the easiest with regard to string and file handling. Most of my applications read some kind of data, process it and displays it through a DataGrid or something similar. 4) Variables - I don't have to declare them and I can put almost everything in there. Great stuff! The english-like language wasn't a selling point for me and have sometimes been a bit of a problem, probably because I'm swedish ;) I often write in instead of into or of (or the other way around), and I sometimes have problems finding the right commands in the Dictionary. revTalk can also be a little long-winded: a=1 is easier to write than put 1 into a, and referring to controls on a specific card can be a bit bothersome. I'm also a bit uneasy about having scripts in a million places in my application but a good Object browser (Like in tRev for instance) helps a lot. I do love Revolution and I've started to develop a few applications for work (I used to it do in VBA which was a bit limiting) and it's worked out great so far. I'm currently about to renew my license for another year and I hope Rev will become even better during the next year. Regards, Fredrik 13 aug 2009 kl. 20.43 skrev Richmond Mathewson: First of all; in computer programming languages everything must be explicitly stated, while in human languages so much is implicit, or is encoded in non-verbal ways. IFF, Runtime Revolution want to carry on appealing to the Saturday-afternoon hobbyist crowd then 'English-like' might be OK. BUT, I wonder (apart from the Las Vegas Drive-In Wedding Chapel) how many people who are prepared to pay £125 are Saturday-afternoon hobbyists. While I DON'T think revTalk sounds like kiddy-time (although it does sound a bit like the Synod of the Church of Scotland), I do think that the continued emphasis on 'English-like' maybe a mistake . . . especially as so much of the more recherche revTalk scripts look nothing like English. . . :) ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Hi Richmond, quite possibly. I found something like this while googling for revTalk (sorry I am not sure if this is correct ): Le language, nommé /revTalk/, utilise des phrases en anglais, ce qui réduit la complexité de développement d'applications. While it is true it is somehow out of context in the sentence which is written in French. Being a non-native English speaker I would possibly prefer Human language-like programming language otherwise one assumes he must first learn English before he can start writing software in revTalk. Besides it is not the reason some of us started programming in revTalk. Completeness and simplicity of the development cycle for GUI software for 3 platforms is the likely reason. In fact most other programming languages and SQL are also based on English language syntax so it is not a unique feature at all ;-) Viktoras Richmond Mathewson wrote: Well, I 'googled' revTalk, and apart from the chap with the snow-mobile :) I got lots of English-like programming language. . . Which, while, possibly, attracting some people, WILL drive away quite a few more. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Indeed, and therein lies the problem: there have been WAY TO MANY of them! Anytime I mention it to someone, I have to think, oh g*d, what are we supposed to be calling it these days?! :-/ Revolution, DreamCard, Rev, er, Studio? Media? onRev? Revlet? RevCode? Transcript? RevTalk? I recently had a student from nearly 10 years ago decide to revisit Rev. What did we call it then? What if he couldn't find it? Judy On Thu, 13 Aug 2009, Richard Gaskin wrote: Because words have meaning. Forgive the seeming tautology, but there's a point to this: ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Richmond wrote: First of all; in computer programming languages everything must be explicitly stated, while in human languages so much is implicit, or is encoded in non-verbal ways. IFF, Runtime Revolution want to carry on appealing to the Saturday-afternoon hobbyist crowd then 'English-like' might be OK. BUT, I wonder (apart from the Las Vegas Drive-In Wedding Chapel) how many people who are prepared to pay £125 are Saturday-afternoon hobbyists. I agree that the scripting audience once identified as the inventive user is largely mythic in the modern world; such personality types exist but in the post-HyperCard/post-BASIC world are more attracted to the many available point-and-click systems for the specific tasks they might be interested in. Long gone are the days when buying a computer always meant learning to write your own programs. Modern scripters probably already know a language, or two or three, and chances are at least one of those is JavaScript. So why would English-like appeal to them? Because the true cost of using a new language isn't the IDE price. Far more expensive is the time it takes to learn the new language. If a scripter can grok Rev in far less time than it would take her to pick up any other second language, Rev's chances of being that second language increase. -- Richard Gaskin Fourth World Revolution training and consulting: http://www.fourthworld.com Webzine for Rev developers: http://www.revjournal.com ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
viktoras- Thursday, August 13, 2009, 11:23:04 AM, you wrote: Indeed these are mostly press releases, although some 3rd-party discussions like this one: http://www.directorforum.com/showthread.php?t=5023. Thanks for that link. Good read. I especially liked Troy Rollins' comment about programming in Trans... er... whatever... You don't have to do any mental translation. Several times I've written a comment about what the next line of script was going to do, and then realized that *was* the line of script I needed to write. Just uncomment it, and run it. -- -Mark Wieder mwie...@ahsoftware.net ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Mark Wieder wrote: viktoras- Thursday, August 13, 2009, 11:23:04 AM, you wrote: Indeed these are mostly press releases, although some 3rd-party discussions like this one: http://www.directorforum.com/showthread.php?t=5023. Thanks for that link. Good read. I especially liked Troy Rollins' comment about programming in Trans... er... whatever... Very Rocky Horror Picture Show methinks! Looking forward to seeing you in your Spandex in Edinburgh :) You don't have to do any mental translation. Several times I've written a comment about what the next line of script was going to do, and then realized that *was* the line of script I needed to write. Just uncomment it, and run it. Not many people are going to believe this, but, here goes: I am currently working on a way to type classical Sanskrit documents cross-platform; this involves 4 things (which, luckily I possess): 1. A working knowledge of Devanagari (the dominant syllabic-alphabetic writing system used for Sanskrit). 2. A moderate knowledge of Runtime Revolution. 3. Knowledge of unicode fonts and how they are made. 4. Bordering certifiable lunacy. Yesterday I programmed for 9 hours flat (see point #4); which didn't just involve the donkey-work of repetitive code, but thinking my way through a tricky logical labyrinth. That was after teaching EFL kids all day! I went to bed and DREAMT in Revolution all night!!! ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
My programmer friend picked up the essentials of the language right away. He had no vocabulary, but had no trouble at all importing his experience, skills and thinking. I was there to drive the IDE and supply the words, and also to point out the power of home grown concepts like chunks. He loved the accessability; the effort of learning the language he assumed was just a part, and a small part at that, of the cost of doing business. So impressing experienced programmers to this sort of world seems to be easy. The challenge is to excite the masses, something that was given an enormous, just flat out enormous head start when Bill Atkinson insisted that HC be bundled for free. That went on until HC v2.0, (Claris) or so, about four years. That was a lot of hubbub; I heard Danny Goodmand sold many hundreds of thousands of his handbook. Craig Newman In a message dated 8/13/09 4:03:48 PM, ambassa...@fourthworld.com writes: Because the true cost of using a new language isn't the IDE price. Far more expensive is the time it takes to learn the new language. If a scripter can grok Rev in far less time than it would take her to pick up any other second language, Rev's chances of being that second language increase. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
Re: Transcript should be called Transcript
Actually, i liked the new logo and the change in language name. al -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Transcript-should-be-called-Transcript-tp24954696p24965084.html Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. ___ use-revolution mailing list use-revolution@lists.runrev.com Please visit this url to subscribe, unsubscribe and manage your subscription preferences: http://lists.runrev.com/mailman/listinfo/use-revolution
