Icons in standalones

[Richmond]

 Something funny going on . . .

The standalone builder in 4.0 is not setting the icons
the way it did 5 months ago???

Bad.
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Re: Images, icons and Objects and Data Grid Tables?

[Trevor DeVore]

On Apr 1, 2010, at 6:50 PM, John Patten wrote:

If pdata is returning the name of my image correctly, how can I use  
that to display the image in my DataGrid table? As an image object?  
As the icon of a button?


I would try using an image object and assign the path to your image on  
disk.


--
Trevor DeVore
Blue Mango Learning Systems
ScreenSteps: http://www.screensteps.com
Releasable Revolution Resources for Developers: 
http://revolution.bluemangolearning.com
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Images, icons and Objects and Data Grid Tables?

[John Patten]

Hi All...

I have a folder full of images that are named with a specific number  
id.  I'm attempting to insert each image based on its name (number id)  
that is pulled from the pData into the Data Grid Table. These images  
are not part of the stack, and will be stored in a directory outside  
of the stack.


I can poll the data grid for the correct image id by changing the  
column object from an image object to a button object and using the  
column behavior script:


set the label of button 1 of me to (pData)   ... so I know i have the  
correct name being reported by the pData data.The result is a the name  
of the image.


I  don't appear to be able to set the button icon based on the image  
path of the image in the folder and there is no way from a script to  
set the imageSource for an image object via a path (like you can when  
you open the image properties and select the button folder).


If pdata is returning the name of my image correctly, how can I use  
that to display the image in my DataGrid table? As an image object? As  
the icon of a button?


Thank you!

John Patten


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Re: AnimationEngine and Creating Icons in Photoshop...?

[Scott Rossi]

Recently, John Patten wrote:

> I've been experimenting with Animation Engine, and have been creating some
> icons that work as levers, odd shaped dials, etc. etc.
>
> Using some of the nice functions that Malte has created and his excellent
> examples I can set the icon ID of button to give the illusion of these icons
> turning. 
> 
> However, the hard part seems creating the 360 icon representations for the
> animations and such. I have access to Adobe CS3 (PS, Fireworks, Illus, etc.)
> but I'm no expert in any of these apps, especially when it comest to
> automating processes.
> 
> In PhotoShop I can create Actions however, doing something like...create
> layer, rotate 1 degree, copy layer, repeat, repeat, 360 times, does not seem
> to be in my range of expertise :-)
> 
> Malte, or any of the other graphic experts (Scott R., Richard G.),  Do you
> have any sites or tips you can point me to for automating the creation of
> images for animations and icons?

Well since you asked, I'll offer a response for what it's worth...

First, I would never create 360 images for dial rotation -- that's way too
many images, and even without knowing exactly what you're doing, I doubt
you'd be able to see much difference in anything finer than say 60 to 120
increments.

Unless your "composite" image employs some special shading that needs to
stay oriented at a specific angle, you might be able to use one image and
set its angle as needed.   Even if your situation does require the use of
multiple images, there's got to be a more efficient option than using 360
separate images.

On a dial, for example, you might make only one graphic tick mark rotate,
while keeping the base image static.  And if you used a circular tick mark,
you can simply set its position radially around the dial and don't even have
to mess with rotation at all.  Or you could create a series of graphic tick
marks positioned radially around a base image, and set the
opacity/blendLevel/backColor of the "active" tick based on the implied
rotation of the dial (think of the OS X timer icon that consists of a series
of 12 radial tick marks that "spin" and yet don't really spin -- motion is
implied by changing the opacity/color of the tick marks).

Hopefully the above illustrates that there are many ways to create dials and
levers.  If you have a specific control you're trying to create, post it
somewhere and we could take a look.

Hope this helps.

Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, UX Design


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AnimationEngine and Creating Icons in Photoshop...?

[John Patten]

DISCLAIMER: This question is targeting Malte Brill and is more Photoshop 
related then Rev...however I thought it might be useful for others, so here 
goes...

I've been experimenting with Animation Engine, and have been creating some 
icons that work as levers, odd shaped dials, etc. etc.

Using some of the nice functions that Malte has created and his excellent 
examples I can set the icon ID of button to give the illusion of these icons 
turning. 

However, the hard part seems creating the 360 icon representations for the 
animations and such. I have access to Adobe CS3 (PS, Fireworks, Illus, etc.) 
but I'm no expert in any of these apps, especially when it comest to automating 
processes.

In PhotoShop I can create Actions however, doing something like...create layer, 
rotate 1 degree, copy layer, repeat, repeat, 360 times, does not seem to be in 
my range of expertise :-)

Malte, or any of the other graphic experts (Scott R., Richard G.),  Do you have 
any sites or tips you can point me to for automating the creation of images for 
animations and icons?

Thank you!

John Patten
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Re: Multipage icons

[David Bovill]

Thanks - as ever.

2010/1/3 Alejandro Tejada 

>
> Some years ago, answering a question from the mail list,
> Abraham Wouter wrote a stack that shows a vector graphic
> grouped displayed as an animation.
>
> Visit my webpage at:
>
> http://www.capellan2000.000space.com
>
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Re: Multipage icons

[Alejandro Tejada]

Hi David,


David Bovill-4 wrote:
> 
> I'm used to creating icons with a separate icon for each image file.
> I've noticed that there are a couple of other techniques in use:
> 
>1. multi-page icons
>2. multiple icons in one image
> 
> [snip]
> 

Some years ago, answering a question from the mail list,
Abraham Wouter wrote a stack that shows a vector graphic
grouped displayed as an animation.

Visit my webpage at:

http://www.capellan2000.000space.com

and download the file:
Vector_Animation_Wouter.zip

Notice that 000space does not allow hotlinking, so if you
click in the file path, you will get an error:
http://www.capellan2000.000space.com/Vector_Animation_Wouter.zip

Alejandro

-- 
View this message in context: 
http://n4.nabble.com/Multipage-icons-tp991972p997524.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Multipage icons

[David Bovill]

Thanks - nice to see!

2010/1/2 Jim Lambert 

> DavidB wrote:
>
> > they are usually
> > formatted by scrolling and clipping the overall image using CSS - and i
> > guess I could do the same with an image in a group?
>
>
> Here's a script that shows how you can use a single image with multiple
> segments to make an animation.
> This techniques also works for multi-state icons contained in a single
> image file.
>
> http://netrin.on-rev.com/animateimage/animateimage.html
>
> Jim Lambert___
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Re: Multipage icons

[Jim Lambert]

DavidB wrote:

> they are usually
> formatted by scrolling and clipping the overall image using CSS - and i
> guess I could do the same with an image in a group?


Here's a script that shows how you can use a single image with multiple 
segments to make an animation.
This techniques also works for multi-state icons contained in a single image 
file.

http://netrin.on-rev.com/animateimage/animateimage.html

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Multipage icons

[David Bovill]

I'm used to creating icons with a separate icon for each image file. I've
noticed that there are a couple of other techniques in use:

   1. multi-page icons
   2. multiple icons in one image

I'm using some icons in a rev project of type 2. I think they are usually
formatted by scrolling and clipping the overall image using CSS - and i
guess I could do the same with an image in a group? Does anyone have any
advice on how to work together with a graphic designer who does strange
things to their icons :)
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Re: Linux Icons

[Mark Wieder]

Richmond-

Wednesday, November 11, 2009, 3:06:01 PM, you wrote:

> Please excuse my ignorance, but what is bz #8278 ?

http://quality.runrev.com/qacenter/show_bug.cgi?id=8278

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Re: Linux Icons

[Judy Perry]

Bugzilla.  He's giving you a bug number in Rev's QCC.

Judy

On Thu, 12 Nov 2009, Richmond Mathewson wrote:


Mark Wieder wrote:

Richmond-

Thank you. You might add a note to bz #8278 about this.



Please excuse my ignorance, but what is bz #8278 ?
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Re: Linux Icons

[Richmond Mathewson]

Mark Wieder wrote:

Richmond-

Thank you. You might add a note to bz #8278 about this.

  

Please excuse my ignorance, but what is bz #8278 ?
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Re: Linux Icons

[Mark Wieder]

Richmond-

Thank you. You might add a note to bz #8278 about this.

-- 
-Mark Wieder
 mwie...@ahsoftware.net

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Linux Icons

[Richmond Mathewson]

For some odd reason the Linux versions of RunRev are
only supplied with Windows icon files (and the old icon at that)
which are unusable (at least on Debian derivatives).

I have had to convert icon files from inside Mac App packages
into PNG images for my own use; so I have uploaded them to:

http://mathewson.110mb.com/FILEZ/RRpngs.zip

this file contains a Yellow, Red and Blue 'modern' png image.

for anybody who needs 'proper' icons for any of the Linux
versions of RunRev.

[If the good folks at RunRev don't like my doing this, I will
be more than happy to remove them forthwith if they can
contact me off-list: presumably at that point they would
make good the arrangements for Linux icons.]

Love, Richmond.
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Re: Where To Put Icons In Standalone?

[Hershel Fisch]

> 
> I would put the image in the standalone "splash" stack. All of the
> other stacks in the project would be able to access it then. Another
> alternative would be to put it in a library stack that the splash
> screen stack starts using at launch time.
Does the same apply to an image?
E.g. Set the cursor to image id of imageAbc of stack "images" is this the
way? Or?
Hershel
> 
> 
> Devin
> 
> Devin Asay
> Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
> Brigham Young University
> 
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Re: Where To Put Icons In Standalone?

[Devin Asay]

On May 14, 2009, at 11:09 AM, Roger Guay wrote:


Greetings,

I have a "Splash Screen" type standalone with about 10 .rev substacks.
What's your advice on where to place the icons for all of these
stacks?. Some of the icons are used in multiple substacks and are not
stack specific.

I did a search of the archives and couldn't find the answer to
this . . . please forgive me if this is "old hat"


I would put the image in the standalone "splash" stack. All of the  
other stacks in the project would be able to access it then. Another  
alternative would be to put it in a library stack that the splash  
screen stack starts using at launch time.



Devin

Devin Asay
Humanities Technology and Research Support Center
Brigham Young University

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Where To Put Icons In Standalone?

[Roger Guay]

Greetings,

I have a "Splash Screen" type standalone with about 10 .rev substacks.  
What's your advice on where to place the icons for all of these  
stacks?. Some of the icons are used in multiple substacks and are not  
stack specific.


I did a search of the archives and couldn't find the answer to  
this . . . please forgive me if this is "old hat"


Thanks,
Roger
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Re: Mac icons

[Stephen Cox]

Thanks. 

-Stephen COx


On 5/10/09 6:19 AM, "Mark Schonewille" 
wrote:

> Dear Stephen,
> 
> Do you want to create an icon to display on your standalone
> application package in the Finder, or are you looking for pictures
> that you can use as icons in your interface?
> 
> You can use Icon Composer to create icons from almost any picture.
> Icon composer creates icns files, which you can use in the standalone
> settings of Revolution.
> 
> There are several sources where you can download interface icons. Here
> are a few sources:
> <http://jesseross.com/clients/etoile/ui/icons/>
> <http://fasticon.com/freeware/>
> <http://www.iconshock.com/vista-icons.php>
> <http://www.cubeyellow.com/downloads.html>
> <http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/>
> 
> I created an unsophisticated set of small icons, which you can find
> here:
> <http://economy-x-talk.com/developers.html>
> 
> --
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Schonewille
> 
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
> 
> New: Snapper Screen Recorder 2.0.1
> Download at http://snapper.economy-x-talk.com
> 
> On 10 mei 2009, at 08:20, Stephen Cox wrote:
> 
>> I was wondering what icons ya use for your projects (on Mac)? Looks
>> like
>> Revolution uses Carbon (when are they moving to Cocoa ­ Carbon is
>> being
>> dropped VERY soon). Has anyone used the Cocoa icons? Or is there a
>> set I can
>> buy, for Revolution?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> -Stephen Cox
> 
> 
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Re: Mac icons

[Mark Schonewille]

Dear Stephen,

Do you want to create an icon to display on your standalone  
application package in the Finder, or are you looking for pictures  
that you can use as icons in your interface?


You can use Icon Composer to create icons from almost any picture.  
Icon composer creates icns files, which you can use in the standalone  
settings of Revolution.


There are several sources where you can download interface icons. Here  
are a few sources:

<http://jesseross.com/clients/etoile/ui/icons/>
<http://fasticon.com/freeware/>
<http://www.iconshock.com/vista-icons.php>
<http://www.cubeyellow.com/downloads.html>
<http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/>

I created an unsophisticated set of small icons, which you can find  
here:

<http://economy-x-talk.com/developers.html>

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

New: Snapper Screen Recorder 2.0.1
Download at http://snapper.economy-x-talk.com

On 10 mei 2009, at 08:20, Stephen Cox wrote:

I was wondering what icons ya use for your projects (on Mac)? Looks  
like
Revolution uses Carbon (when are they moving to Cocoa – Carbon is  
being
dropped VERY soon). Has anyone used the Cocoa icons? Or is there a  
set I can

buy, for Revolution?

Thanks

-Stephen Cox



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Re: Mac icons

[Stephen Cox]

Much thanks. I got the dev tools installed.


On 5/10/09 2:53 AM, "Richmond Mathewson" 
wrote:

> If you have the Development tools installed there is a 'Icon Composer'
> program lurking there (in the Utilities folder); drag your RR images
> there and they will be 'magically' made into icons for you.
> 
> Alternatively, just use a PNG image.  :)
> 
> Stephen Cox wrote:
>> I was wondering what icons ya use for your projects (on Mac)? Looks like
>> Revolution uses Carbon (when are they moving to Cocoa ­ Carbon is being
>> dropped VERY soon). Has anyone used the Cocoa icons? Or is there a set I can
>> buy, for Revolution?
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> -Stephen Cox
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>>   
> 
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Re: Mac icons

[Richmond Mathewson]

If you have the Development tools installed there is a 'Icon Composer'
program lurking there (in the Utilities folder); drag your RR images
there and they will be 'magically' made into icons for you.

Alternatively, just use a PNG image.  :)

Stephen Cox wrote:

I was wondering what icons ya use for your projects (on Mac)? Looks like
Revolution uses Carbon (when are they moving to Cocoa ­ Carbon is being
dropped VERY soon). Has anyone used the Cocoa icons? Or is there a set I can
buy, for Revolution?

Thanks

-Stephen Cox
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Mac icons

[Stephen Cox]

I was wondering what icons ya use for your projects (on Mac)? Looks like
Revolution uses Carbon (when are they moving to Cocoa ­ Carbon is being
dropped VERY soon). Has anyone used the Cocoa icons? Or is there a set I can
buy, for Revolution?

Thanks

-Stephen Cox
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Re: A scripted solution for getting file icons (Mac only)

[Mark Schonewille]

Cool, Terry! I'll try it.

--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Snapper Screen Recorder is now available for Windows! Download it at .


On 16 mrt 2009, at 11:39, Terry Judd wrote:

On 16/03/09 8:49 PM, "Mark Schonewille" >

wrote:


Hi Terry,

I did this too, a few years ago. The problem I'm still having is that
it only works if a corresponding icns file is available somewhere on
disk. My solution didn't work with applications that aren't
application packages. Does your solution work with applications that
are not applications packages (such as MS Office 2004 applications)?


Hi Mark - it should work with apps that aren't packages. It uses the
getResources and getResource functions to check for the existence of  
an icns

resource inside the app and extracts that.

Terry...


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Re: A scripted solution for getting file icons (Mac only)

[Terry Judd]

On 16/03/09 8:49 PM, "Mark Schonewille" 
wrote:

> Hi Terry,
> 
> I did this too, a few years ago. The problem I'm still having is that
> it only works if a corresponding icns file is available somewhere on
> disk. My solution didn't work with applications that aren't
> application packages. Does your solution work with applications that
> are not applications packages (such as MS Office 2004 applications)?

Hi Mark - it should work with apps that aren't packages. It uses the
getResources and getResource functions to check for the existence of an icns
resource inside the app and extracts that.

Terry...

> 
> --
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Schonewille
> 
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum
> 
> Snapper Screen Recorder is now available for Windows! Download it at
> <http://snapper.economy-x-talk.com
>> .
> 
> On 16 mrt 2009, at 10:42, Terry Judd wrote:
> 
>> I really didn't think this was possible until I stumbled across the
>> AppleScript 'Image Events' dictionary a couple of days ago but here
>> (below)
>> is a scripted solution for creating a PNG image of a file's icon
>> based on
>> its filepath. It uses a couple of applescript snippets plus the revXML
>> external to parse application pList files but you could undoubtedly
>> forgo
>> the XML external with a bit of extra scripting effort.
>> 
>> The getIconToFile_Mac function has 4 parameters...
>> 
>> # pSourceFilePath = path of the file you're getting the icon of
>> # pDestFilePath = path of the image file you're creating
>> # pIconSize = pixel dimensions of output image (e.g. 16 or 32 etc)
>> # pReturnImageData = true or false/empty - if true the image
>> contents are
>> returned by the function
>> 
>> The routine works on files and applications (including application
>> bundles)
>> and the output is a PNG image which retains transparent regions and
>> is ready
>> to be sucked up into your project.
>> 
>> There doesn't seem to be any way to capture 'standard' volume and
>> folder
>> icons (custom folder and volume images are possible) so I've left
>> them out
>> for now.
>> 
>> I've included a couple of drag and drop handlers that you can place
>> in an
>> image object to test the routines out.
>> 
>> Anyway, I hope this is useful to someone (it's a bit long and
>> messy). Feel
>> free to improve or modify as you see fit.
>> 
>> --  
>> 
>> -- ## create an image and put the following 2 handlers in its script
>> ##
>> -- ## watch out for line wraps
>> ##
>> 
>> ON dragEnter
>>  set the acceptdrop to true
>> END dragEnter
>> 
>> ON dragDrop
>>   put dragData["files"] into tFile
>>   IF tFile = "" THEN
>>  put dragData["text"] into tFile
>>  if tFile is not empty then
>> if not ((there is a folder tFile) and char -4 to -1 of tFile =
>> ".app") then
>>exit dragDrop
>> end if
>>  else
>> exit dragDrop
>>  end if
>>   end if
>>   get getIconToFile_Mac(tFile,,128,true)
>>   if it contains "error:" then
>>  put "" into me
>>   else
>>  put it into me
>>   end if
>> END dragDrop
>> 
>> -- ###
>> -- ## put the following 2 functions in the card or stack script ##
>> -- ## watch out for line wraps  ##
> 
> 
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Re: A scripted solution for getting file icons (Mac only)

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Terry,

I did this too, a few years ago. The problem I'm still having is that  
it only works if a corresponding icns file is available somewhere on  
disk. My solution didn't work with applications that aren't  
application packages. Does your solution work with applications that  
are not applications packages (such as MS Office 2004 applications)?


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

Snapper Screen Recorder is now available for Windows! Download it at <http://snapper.economy-x-talk.com 
>.


On 16 mrt 2009, at 10:42, Terry Judd wrote:


I really didn't think this was possible until I stumbled across the
AppleScript 'Image Events' dictionary a couple of days ago but here  
(below)
is a scripted solution for creating a PNG image of a file's icon  
based on

its filepath. It uses a couple of applescript snippets plus the revXML
external to parse application pList files but you could undoubtedly  
forgo

the XML external with a bit of extra scripting effort.

The getIconToFile_Mac function has 4 parameters...

# pSourceFilePath = path of the file you're getting the icon of
# pDestFilePath = path of the image file you're creating
# pIconSize = pixel dimensions of output image (e.g. 16 or 32 etc)
# pReturnImageData = true or false/empty - if true the image  
contents are

returned by the function

The routine works on files and applications (including application  
bundles)
and the output is a PNG image which retains transparent regions and  
is ready

to be sucked up into your project.

There doesn't seem to be any way to capture 'standard' volume and  
folder
icons (custom folder and volume images are possible) so I've left  
them out

for now.

I've included a couple of drag and drop handlers that you can place  
in an

image object to test the routines out.

Anyway, I hope this is useful to someone (it's a bit long and  
messy). Feel

free to improve or modify as you see fit.

--  

-- ## create an image and put the following 2 handlers in its script  
##
-- ## watch out for line wraps
##


ON dragEnter
 set the acceptdrop to true
END dragEnter

ON dragDrop
  put dragData["files"] into tFile
  IF tFile = "" THEN
 put dragData["text"] into tFile
 if tFile is not empty then
if not ((there is a folder tFile) and char -4 to -1 of tFile =
".app") then
   exit dragDrop
end if
 else
exit dragDrop
 end if
  end if
  get getIconToFile_Mac(tFile,,128,true)
  if it contains "error:" then
 put "" into me
  else
 put it into me
  end if
END dragDrop

-- ###
-- ## put the following 2 functions in the card or stack script ##
-- ## watch out for line wraps  ##



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A scripted solution for getting file icons (Mac only)

[Terry Judd]

I really didn't think this was possible until I stumbled across the
AppleScript 'Image Events' dictionary a couple of days ago but here (below)
is a scripted solution for creating a PNG image of a file's icon based on
its filepath. It uses a couple of applescript snippets plus the revXML
external to parse application pList files but you could undoubtedly forgo
the XML external with a bit of extra scripting effort.

The getIconToFile_Mac function has 4 parameters...

# pSourceFilePath = path of the file you're getting the icon of
# pDestFilePath = path of the image file you're creating
# pIconSize = pixel dimensions of output image (e.g. 16 or 32 etc)
# pReturnImageData = true or false/empty - if true the image contents are
returned by the function

The routine works on files and applications (including application bundles)
and the output is a PNG image which retains transparent regions and is ready
to be sucked up into your project.

There doesn't seem to be any way to capture 'standard' volume and folder
icons (custom folder and volume images are possible) so I've left them out
for now.

I've included a couple of drag and drop handlers that you can place in an
image object to test the routines out.

Anyway, I hope this is useful to someone (it's a bit long and messy). Feel
free to improve or modify as you see fit.

-- 
-- ## create an image and put the following 2 handlers in its script ##
-- ## watch out for line wraps   ##

ON dragEnter
  set the acceptdrop to true
END dragEnter

ON dragDrop
   put dragData["files"] into tFile
   IF tFile = "" THEN
  put dragData["text"] into tFile
  if tFile is not empty then
 if not ((there is a folder tFile) and char -4 to -1 of tFile =
".app") then
exit dragDrop
 end if
  else
 exit dragDrop
  end if
   end if
   get getIconToFile_Mac(tFile,,128,true)
   if it contains "error:" then
  put "" into me
   else
  put it into me
   end if
END dragDrop

-- ###
-- ## put the following 2 functions in the card or stack script ##
-- ## watch out for line wraps  ##

FUNCTION getIconToFile_Mac pSourceFilePath, pDestFilePath, pIconSize,
pReturnImageData
   local tIconFileName
   -- default icon size is 32x32
   if pIconSize is empty then put 32 into pIconSize
   if (pDestFilePath is empty) and pReturnImageData then
  -- use a temporary file
  put specialFolderPath("temporary") &"/tempicon.png" into pDestFilePath
  -- delete the file if it already exists
  if there is a file pDestFilePath then delete file pDestFilePath
   end if
   set the itemdel to "/"
   put item 1 to -2 of pSourceFilePath into tFolderPath
   put urlencode(item -1 of pSourceFilePath) into tFileName
   set the itemdel to "."
   put item -1 of pSourceFilePath into tExtension
   put the defaultfolder into tDF
   set the defaultfolder to tFolderPath
   put the detailed files into tFiles
   set the defaultfolder to tDF
   filter tFiles WITH (tFileName&"*")
   set the itemdel to comma
   put char 5 to 8 of last item of tFiles into tFIleType
   if not (there is a file pSourceFilePath) then
  -- invalid filepath or it's an application bundle
  if there is a folder pSourceFilePath and tExtension = "app" then
 -- the icns file should be in the resources folder inside the
bundle
 delete char -4 to -1 of tFileName
 put pSourceFilePath&"/Contents/Resources/"&tFileName&".icns" into
tSourceIconPath
 if there is a file tSourceIconPath then
-- create the image
get 
createFileFromIcon(tSourceIconPath,pDestFilePath,pIconSize,pReturnImageData)
return it
 else
return "Error: couldn't locate icon file"
 end if
  else
 return "Error: invalid input file path"
  end if
   end if
   put revMacFromUnixPath(pSourceFilePath) into tPath
   put "tell application 'System Events' to get the path of the default
application of file '[[tPath]]'" into tScript
   put merge(tScript) into tScript
   replace "'" WITH quote in tScript
   do tScript as AppleScript
   put the result into tAppPath
   replace quote WITH empty in tAppPath
   IF tAppPath = tPath THEN
  -- it's an application (but not an application bundle)
  put getResources(pSourceFilePath,"icns") into tResources
  if tResources = "" then
 return "Error: no icon available"
  else
 -- assume the correct icon is the first icns resource
 pu

Re: How to use Icons/Images in a List?

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Dave,

Just make a group of images and set the hScrollbar and vScrollbar of  
the group to true. Now you can make the group smaller, set the lockLoc  
to true and scroll the list.


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum

We are always looking for new projects! Feel free to contact us to  
discuss your custom software project!


On 19 jan 2009, at 16:29, Dave wrote:


Hi All,

I'd like to build a list of images or icons and be able to scroll  
through them and select etc. like a list. The end result I would  
like is something like the list of volumes in the Startup Disk from  
System Preferences on MacOS X.


Is there some sample code that shows how to achieve this?

Any help or suggestions on where to get started would be greatly  
appreciated.


All the Best
Dave


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How to use Icons/Images in a List?

[Dave]

Hi All,

I'd like to build a list of images or icons and be able to scroll  
through them and select etc. like a list. The end result I would like  
is something like the list of volumes in the Startup Disk from System  
Preferences on MacOS X.


Is there some sample code that shows how to achieve this?

Any help or suggestions on where to get started would be greatly  
appreciated.


All the Best
Dave


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Re: Grab Application Icons?

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Scott,

I posted a demo, a while back. I now have a prototype that does a few  
tricks with icns files. Someone else made a start with a stack that  
reads ico files and sent the stack to me, but it is not finished yet.


--

Economy-x-Talk
Consultancy and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Get your store on-line within minutes with Salery Web Store software.  
Download at http://www.salery.biz


Op 13-jan-2009, om 21:58 heeft Scott Rossi het volgende geschreven:


Hi List:

I seem to remember somebody creating a stack or external that is  
able to
grab Finder/Explorer icons from applications.  Does something like  
this

exist?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design


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Grab Application Icons?

[Scott Rossi]

Hi List:

I seem to remember somebody creating a stack or external that is able to
grab Finder/Explorer icons from applications.  Does something like this
exist?

Thanks & Regards,

Scott Rossi
Creative Director
Tactile Media, Multimedia & Design


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Re: preserve custom folder icons in OSX

[Scott Morrow]

On Dec 1, 2008, at 4:43 PM, Ken Ray wrote:


On 12/1/08 2:24 AM, "Scott Morrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
wrote:



I'm trying to add, as part of an installer app, the ability to
reproduce any original custom folder icons in OSX (and perhaps OS9 as
I think it uses the same mechanism).  In other words, I would like to
be able to suck up the custom folder icon information along with
everything else so that it can be restored when the folder is spit  
out

elsewhere.


Can you just zip up the folder? That may keep the custom icon intact.


The rest of the installer app already works by sucking up folders, not  
all of which are destined for the same place.  I was just trying to  
put a little extra polish on.  Perhaps I should have zipped each  
folder and then sucked it up!



I can't seem to touch or otherwise get a peek at the resource inside
the icon\r file without first renaming it to something without the
carriage return.


Yeah, I couldn't either from inside Rev - I can only work with it in  
the

shell().


Hmm, perhaps I could use shell() to duplicate and rename the file,  
then suck that up with rev.  I think spitting it out later with a CR  
in the name will work.

Thanks.

Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web   http://elementarysoftware.com/
email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: preserve custom folder icons in OSX

[Ken Ray]

On 12/1/08 2:24 AM, "Scott Morrow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I'm trying to add, as part of an installer app, the ability to
> reproduce any original custom folder icons in OSX (and perhaps OS9 as
> I think it uses the same mechanism).  In other words, I would like to
> be able to suck up the custom folder icon information along with
> everything else so that it can be restored when the folder is spit out
> elsewhere.

Can you just zip up the folder? That may keep the custom icon intact.

> I can't seem to touch or otherwise get a peek at the resource inside
> the icon\r file without first renaming it to something without the
> carriage return.

Yeah, I couldn't either from inside Rev - I can only work with it in the
shell().


Ken Ray
Sons of Thunder Software, Inc.
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Web Site: http://www.sonsothunder.com/


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preserve custom folder icons in OSX

[Scott Morrow]

I'm trying to add, as part of an installer app, the ability to  
reproduce any original custom folder icons in OSX (and perhaps OS9 as  
I think it uses the same mechanism).  In other words, I would like to  
be able to suck up the custom folder icon information along with  
everything else so that it can be restored when the folder is spit out  
elsewhere.


If I understand correctly, the folder icon is controlled by an  
invisible file named "Icon"&CR  (often referred to as "Icon\r") which  
contains an icon resource ("icns",-16455). Additionally, I believe the  
folder itself needs to have a flag set in order for it to accept this  
icon.


I can't seem to touch or otherwise get a peek at the resource inside  
the icon\r file without first renaming it to something without the  
carriage return.


I haven't tried to figure out the folder flag yet.  Any suggestions  
gladly accepted.


Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web   http://elementarysoftware.com/
email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--




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AW: Are the icons and color of a fields scrollbar editable?

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hi Chipp,
I'll have a look to it,
Thanks for sharing!
Tiemo

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:use-revolution-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Chipp Walters
> Gesendet: Dienstag, 21. Oktober 2008 06:30
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: Are the icons and color of a fields scrollbar editable?
> 
> Tiemo,
> I wrote a custom scrollbar object which is very easy to customize and
> works
> well with fields. From a previous post:
> 
> Here's a plugin which allows one to create custom colored scrollbars for
> fields in Rev. It's ONLY BEEN TESTED ON WinXP. So, any of you Mac, Vista
> or
> Linux folks can check it out and let me know if it works.
> 
> It's pretty simple and not as beautiful or fancy as those created by Scott
> Rossi, but it's definitely a 'no frills' approach, which has minimum
> impact.
> It's works like my altFldHeader which puts buttons at the top of fields
> for
> sorting tables, etc.
> 
> To download it, just type into the msg box (or cut/paste)
> 
> go URL "http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altFldScroller.rev";
> 
> Then be sure and save. Make sure and run this in palette mode. If you use
> altPluginToolbar, it will install and automatically run in palette mode.
> 
> best, Chipp
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Re: Are the icons and color of a fields scrollbar editable?

[Chipp Walters]

Mark,
You make it sound oh so simple. To construct an actual scrollbar, you really
need to do things like:

- Manage the height of the elevator button proportional to the content in
the field which is scrolled
- Track the field if it is resized
- Update it on selectionChanged
- Work with mouse scroll
- Do page up/down when clicking above and below the scrollbar
- Keep scrolling while the mouse is down w/out using 'while the mouse is
down'
- Hide it when the field is hidden and show it when the field is shown
- Allow for colorization of all the components-- including the arrow icons
- And much, much more

Most time consuming for Rev programmers.

On Mon, Oct 20, 2008 at 9:50 AM, Mark Schonewille <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
> You need to create your own scrollbar.
>
> Create a button and write a script to make it follow the mouseLoc on
> mouseDown, until the mouse is up. Make the button move vertically and only
> between particular coordinates. Set the vScroll of a field to the relative
> vertical distance between the bottom of the button and the maximum value of
> the vertical coordinate to where it can move. Now, you can give the vertical
> space a background and put buttons with icons above the top and below the
> bottom of this background.
>
> --
> Best regards,
>
> Mark Schonewille
>
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum/
>
> Benefit from our inexpensive hosting services. See
> http://economy-x-talk.com/server.html for more info.
>
>
> On 20 okt 2008, at 16:31, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
>
>  Hello,
>>
>> I've seen runrev apps with a complete customized look, where also the
>> scrollbars of a scrollfield had their own icons and / or color. Is there a
>> "standard" option how to change the look of a scrollbar, compatible with
>> Win
>> and Mac. I didn't found any property for customizing?
>>
>> Thanks for experience
>>
>> Tiemo
>>
>
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Re: Are the icons and color of a fields scrollbar editable?

[Chipp Walters]

Tiemo,
I wrote a custom scrollbar object which is very easy to customize and works
well with fields. From a previous post:

Here's a plugin which allows one to create custom colored scrollbars for
fields in Rev. It's ONLY BEEN TESTED ON WinXP. So, any of you Mac, Vista or
Linux folks can check it out and let me know if it works.

It's pretty simple and not as beautiful or fancy as those created by Scott
Rossi, but it's definitely a 'no frills' approach, which has minimum impact.
It's works like my altFldHeader which puts buttons at the top of fields for
sorting tables, etc.

To download it, just type into the msg box (or cut/paste)

go URL "http://www.gadgetplugins.com/altplugins/altFldScroller.rev";

Then be sure and save. Make sure and run this in palette mode. If you use
altPluginToolbar, it will install and automatically run in palette mode.

best, Chipp
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AW: Are the icons and color of a fields scrollbar editable?

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hmmm, thats what a feared :)
I think I'll keep it for the waste time at the end of my project
Thanks
Tiemo

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:use-revolution-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Mark Schonewille
> Gesendet: Montag, 20. Oktober 2008 16:51
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: Are the icons and color of a fields scrollbar editable?
> 
> Hi Tiemo,
> 
> You need to create your own scrollbar.
> 
> Create a button and write a script to make it follow the mouseLoc on
> mouseDown, until the mouse is up. Make the button move vertically and
> only between particular coordinates. Set the vScroll of a field to the
> relative vertical distance between the bottom of the button and the
> maximum value of the vertical coordinate to where it can move. Now,
> you can give the vertical space a background and put buttons with
> icons above the top and below the bottom of this background.
> 
> --
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Schonewille
> 
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum/
> 
> Benefit from our inexpensive hosting services. See http://economy-x-
> talk.com/server.html
>   for more info.
> 
> On 20 okt 2008, at 16:31, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
> 
> > Hello,
> >
> > I've seen runrev apps with a complete customized look, where also the
> > scrollbars of a scrollfield had their own icons and / or color. Is
> > there a
> > "standard" option how to change the look of a scrollbar, compatible
> > with Win
> > and Mac. I didn't found any property for customizing?
> >
> > Thanks for experience
> >
> > Tiemo
> 
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Re: Are the icons and color of a fields scrollbar editable?

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Tiemo,

You need to create your own scrollbar.

Create a button and write a script to make it follow the mouseLoc on  
mouseDown, until the mouse is up. Make the button move vertically and  
only between particular coordinates. Set the vScroll of a field to the  
relative vertical distance between the bottom of the button and the  
maximum value of the vertical coordinate to where it can move. Now,  
you can give the vertical space a background and put buttons with  
icons above the top and below the bottom of this background.


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz
Dutch forum: http://runrev.info/rrforum/

Benefit from our inexpensive hosting services. See http://economy-x-talk.com/server.html 
 for more info.


On 20 okt 2008, at 16:31, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:


Hello,

I've seen runrev apps with a complete customized look, where also the
scrollbars of a scrollfield had their own icons and / or color. Is  
there a
"standard" option how to change the look of a scrollbar, compatible  
with Win

and Mac. I didn't found any property for customizing?

Thanks for experience

Tiemo


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Are the icons and color of a fields scrollbar editable?

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hello,

I've seen runrev apps with a complete customized look, where also the
scrollbars of a scrollfield had their own icons and / or color. Is there a
"standard" option how to change the look of a scrollbar, compatible with Win
and Mac. I didn't found any property for customizing?

Thanks for experience

Tiemo

 

 

 

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Icons in Rev Standalone's

[Dave]

Hi All,

I have an application that runs on Mac OS X and Windows. I now have  
the need to make different versions of the Application, and the only  
difference is the Icon that is set in the Standalone Settings Window.  
I build on a Mac and produce a Mac and Windows version, so I need the  
Icon's set for both OS's. The standalone settings are held in one  
"dummy" Slash Screen which is the file I open to do the "Save as  
Standalone" command. My question is:


Is there anyway to set the Icons for both Mac or Windows  
programmatically so I can automate the build? One thought I had was  
if I could get at the standalone settings in the stack file for the  
splash screen, but I can't seem to find any information on this.


Anyone have an ideas or suggestions?

Thanks a lot.

All the Best
Dave


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Free Icons?

[Horst]

please look here http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/silk/

best regards

Inselfan
-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/Free-Icons--tp19243609p19243609.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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AW: Correct way to import icons?

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Thanks Viktoras,
that was now also my conclusion and approach
Tiemo

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:use-revolution-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von viktoras didziulis
> Gesendet: Freitag, 15. August 2008 19:00
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: Correct way to import icons?
> 
> I am not sure if it is the "correct" way, but I usually creating a new
> card (not seen by the end user) and import all icons, backgrounds and
> other reusable graphics there.
> 
> V.
> 
> Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
> > Hi there, again a beginners question, sometimes I think I have to stick
> with
> > every new feature I'll try. What is the correct way to import icons for
> > using as button icons?
> >
> > I experienced the way to import them as an image control and assign them
> to
> > the buttons. But this way I have the icon images present on the card. I
> > think there must be a way to import them as a "resource", to use them
> for
> > buttons, but not having them on the card. I have seen the menu to create
> a
> > new image library and import my icons into that new library, but when
> trying
> > to assign the icons out of this new library I don't have this new
> library as
> > a choice to select and don't see it. I also tried "start using stack "my
> > icons", but rev doesn't knows this stack.
> >
> > What am I missing?
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Tiemo
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: Correct way to import icons?

[viktoras didziulis]

I am not sure if it is the "correct" way, but I usually creating a new 
card (not seen by the end user) and import all icons, backgrounds and 
other reusable graphics there.


V.

Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:

Hi there, again a beginners question, sometimes I think I have to stick with
every new feature I'll try. What is the correct way to import icons for
using as button icons?

I experienced the way to import them as an image control and assign them to
the buttons. But this way I have the icon images present on the card. I
think there must be a way to import them as a "resource", to use them for
buttons, but not having them on the card. I have seen the menu to create a
new image library and import my icons into that new library, but when trying
to assign the icons out of this new library I don't have this new library as
a choice to select and don't see it. I also tried "start using stack "my
icons", but rev doesn't knows this stack.

What am I missing?

Thank you

Tiemo

 

 

 


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AW: Correct way to import icons?

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Thank you Mark,
I didn't thought this would be the appropriate way :)
Have a nice WE
Tiemo

> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:use-revolution-
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von Mark Schonewille
> Gesendet: Freitag, 15. August 2008 16:41
> An: How to use Revolution
> Betreff: Re: Correct way to import icons?
> 
> Hi Tiemo,
> 
> The easiest way is to import your icons into the main stack or a
> separate substack and then do everything the same way as you already do.
> 
> If you have only one stack with one card, you can simply hide the
> imported pictures.
> 
> --
> Best regards,
> 
> Mark Schonewille
> 
> Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
> http://economy-x-talk.com
> http://www.salery.biz
> 
> Benefit from our inexpensive hosting services. See http://economy-x-
> talk.com/server.html
>   for more info.
> 
> On 15 aug 2008, at 16:10, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:
> 
> > Hi there, again a beginners question, sometimes I think I have to
> > stick with
> > every new feature I'll try. What is the correct way to import icons
> > for
> > using as button icons?
> >
> > I experienced the way to import them as an image control and assign
> > them to
> > the buttons. But this way I have the icon images present on the
> > card. I
> > think there must be a way to import them as a "resource", to use
> > them for
> > buttons, but not having them on the card. I have seen the menu to
> > create a
> > new image library and import my icons into that new library, but
> > when trying
> > to assign the icons out of this new library I don't have this new
> > library as
> > a choice to select and don't see it. I also tried "start using stack
> > "my
> > icons", but rev doesn't knows this stack.
> >
> > What am I missing?
> >
> > Thank you
> >
> > Tiemo
> 
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Re: Correct way to import icons?

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Tiemo,

The easiest way is to import your icons into the main stack or a  
separate substack and then do everything the same way as you already do.


If you have only one stack with one card, you can simply hide the  
imported pictures.


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Benefit from our inexpensive hosting services. See http://economy-x-talk.com/server.html 
 for more info.


On 15 aug 2008, at 16:10, Tiemo Hollmann TB wrote:

Hi there, again a beginners question, sometimes I think I have to  
stick with
every new feature I'll try. What is the correct way to import icons  
for

using as button icons?

I experienced the way to import them as an image control and assign  
them to
the buttons. But this way I have the icon images present on the  
card. I
think there must be a way to import them as a "resource", to use  
them for
buttons, but not having them on the card. I have seen the menu to  
create a
new image library and import my icons into that new library, but  
when trying
to assign the icons out of this new library I don't have this new  
library as
a choice to select and don't see it. I also tried "start using stack  
"my

icons", but rev doesn't knows this stack.

What am I missing?

Thank you

Tiemo


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Correct way to import icons?

[Tiemo Hollmann TB]

Hi there, again a beginners question, sometimes I think I have to stick with
every new feature I'll try. What is the correct way to import icons for
using as button icons?

I experienced the way to import them as an image control and assign them to
the buttons. But this way I have the icon images present on the card. I
think there must be a way to import them as a "resource", to use them for
buttons, but not having them on the card. I have seen the menu to create a
new image library and import my icons into that new library, but when trying
to assign the icons out of this new library I don't have this new library as
a choice to select and don't see it. I also tried "start using stack "my
icons", but rev doesn't knows this stack.

What am I missing?

Thank you

Tiemo

 

 

 

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Re: Who owns old icons?

[Noel]

I've been reading this conversation, and have to throw a few points 
of clarification out there.


First off, Fonts and dingbats both are copyrighted by the person that 
created them.   Typefaces on the other hand, are not covered by 
copyright.  However the US hasn't yet made a legal decision on if a 
font is a typeface yet (go figure).  But ask any publishing house, 
and they will tell you they make sure to have licenses for any 
typeface they use that isn't in the public domain.


Next, the Corel vs Bridgeman Art Library case says that if the 2d 
object (such as a painting) is in the public domain due to its age, 
the owner of the object cannot claim copyright on its image.  You can 
take a picture of that object, and do whatever you personally want to 
do with it and keep the copyright of that image.  However, this law 
has not been tested on anything 3d (such as a statue), and doesn't 
apply to everywhere (US is the main application of this law)


Almost last, the idea of changing the item so copyright doesn't 
apply.  The owner of the original copyright also owns all derivative 
works from that copyright.  So you cannot take someones icons, change 
them slightly, and claim they are yours now.


And finally Last.  Taking a "screenshot" of an icon, in no way gives 
you a right to distribute that property.  The original icon still has 
copyright on it, you are not allowed to claim copyright on a 
"picture" or a "screenshot" of that item.


Just a few things to throw out there :)

 - Noel

At 12:18 PM 8/4/2008, you wrote:

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> Rick Harrison wrote:
>
> "Unless Apple, Inc. has put all of HyperCard into the public domain,
> the HyperCard icons are still owned by Apple, Inc."
>
> which seems pretty clear and unequivocal.
>
> However, old icons are a bit like my face:
>
> I own my face, and were somebody to mysteriously remove it and
> graft it on to another person they would have stolen it.
>
> However, journalists and others photograph people's faces and
> publish them everywhere without so much as a backward glance;
> and they cannot be said to have "stolen people's faces", or even
> their likenesses.

You did not create your face.  In the US, your image in public 
places is considered pubic domain, and can be photographed by anyone 
without requiring consent.  Photos of your face taken in private 
places will require your consent, or may be considered an invasion 
of privacy.  But it's the privacy at play with faces, not copyright 
(at least not in the US; YMMV); you did not create your face, and 
copyright is generally limited to the domain of created works.



> Now, were I to post the HyperCard application, or, say, a ResEdit
> document containing Hypercard icons on a website and/or user group
> I would have stolen the icons.
>
> However, were I to post (as, indeed I have done) photographs (i.e.
> screenshots) of HyperCard icons; this would be similar to an
> individual publishing a photograph of me s/he took.

Actually, photographs of paintings are covered by the copyright of 
the painting being photographed.  There may be exceptions for 
incidental use (e.g., a painting in the far background of a 
photograph of a gallery), but the rules for incidental use are vague 
and the copyright holder can elect to have them tested in court.


Pixel-for-pixel copies of a work, even if saved in a different 
format, have been tested by the court and found to be under the 
protection of the copyright holder of the original work.  In some 
cases even modest deviance from the original may still be protected, 
unless the defendant can demonstrate that their work was indeed 
original and similarity is purely coincidental.


Oddly enough, fonts are a specific exclusion to this protection, 
having been defined by the courts as purely utilitarian and 
therefore unprotectable by copyright (given the artfulness required 
for font design I disagree with this ruling, but the courts rarely 
consult me when making judgments).  The underlying code of vector 
fonts can be protected as software instructions, but the actual 
rendered image of the glyphs themselves are not protected (hence the 
knock-off industry).


Screenshots which include copyrighted images may fall under 
"incidental use", but as I noted such usage is vaguely defined and 
may be tested at the copyright holder's election.



> This discussion is rapidly reaching its natural end.

Yes, all citations of governing law have demonstrated that 
distribution of pixel-perfect copies of an entire collection Apple's 
icons represents a violation of their copyright.


If this seems unclear the best test of course is to verify this with 
Apple.  I'm not an attorney, and I haven't seen any of the attorneys 
on this list

RE: Who owns old icons?

[Lynn Fredricks]

>  > However, were I to post (as, indeed I have done) photographs (i.e.
>  > screenshots) of HyperCard icons; this would be similar to 
> an  > individual publishing a photograph of me s/he took.
> 
> Actually, photographs of paintings are covered by the 
> copyright of the painting being photographed.  There may be 
> exceptions for incidental use (e.g., a painting in the far 
> background of a photograph of a gallery), but the rules for 
> incidental use are vague and the copyright holder can elect 
> to have them tested in court.

I believe this was settled as well because of a case with Corel trying to
copyright pictures of famous paintings.

> Oddly enough, fonts are a specific exclusion to this 
> protection, having been defined by the courts as purely 
> utilitarian and therefore unprotectable by copyright (given 
> the artfulness required for font design I disagree with this 
> ruling, but the courts rarely consult me when making 
> judgments).  The underlying code of vector fonts can be 
> protected as software instructions, but the actual rendered 
> image of the glyphs themselves are not protected (hence the 
> knock-off industry).

This can really vary, country to country - even with the Berne Convention.
Apple ran into trouble years ago with Japanese fonts, because fonts in
Japan, at least at the time, were covered under Japanese copyright law (font
houses claiming to have had exclusive rights to the fonts for hundreds of
years). Of course, creating a font with 2000 characters in it is no small
task ;-) One company effectively did that for postscript fonts and it was
very, very expensive to get fonts that worked at a high quality print
resolution. Apple either licensed or created some very nice Japanese
TrueType fonts though - not perfect by any means for digital printing at the
time, but certainly good enough for word processing.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
Mirye Software Publishing
http://www.mirye.com

Mirye Community NING
http://miryesoftware.ning.com 

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Re: Who owns old icons?

[Richard Gaskin]

Richmond Mathewson wrote:

> Rick Harrison wrote:
>
> "Unless Apple, Inc. has put all of HyperCard into the public domain,
> the HyperCard icons are still owned by Apple, Inc."
>
> which seems pretty clear and unequivocal.
>
> However, old icons are a bit like my face:
>
> I own my face, and were somebody to mysteriously remove it and
> graft it on to another person they would have stolen it.
>
> However, journalists and others photograph people's faces and
> publish them everywhere without so much as a backward glance;
> and they cannot be said to have "stolen people's faces", or even
> their likenesses.

You did not create your face.  In the US, your image in public places is 
considered pubic domain, and can be photographed by anyone without 
requiring consent.  Photos of your face taken in private places will 
require your consent, or may be considered an invasion of privacy.  But 
it's the privacy at play with faces, not copyright (at least not in the 
US; YMMV); you did not create your face, and copyright is generally 
limited to the domain of created works.



> Now, were I to post the HyperCard application, or, say, a ResEdit
> document containing Hypercard icons on a website and/or user group
> I would have stolen the icons.
>
> However, were I to post (as, indeed I have done) photographs (i.e.
> screenshots) of HyperCard icons; this would be similar to an
> individual publishing a photograph of me s/he took.

Actually, photographs of paintings are covered by the copyright of the 
painting being photographed.  There may be exceptions for incidental use 
(e.g., a painting in the far background of a photograph of a gallery), 
but the rules for incidental use are vague and the copyright holder can 
elect to have them tested in court.


Pixel-for-pixel copies of a work, even if saved in a different format, 
have been tested by the court and found to be under the protection of 
the copyright holder of the original work.  In some cases even modest 
deviance from the original may still be protected, unless the defendant 
can demonstrate that their work was indeed original and similarity is 
purely coincidental.


Oddly enough, fonts are a specific exclusion to this protection, having 
been defined by the courts as purely utilitarian and therefore 
unprotectable by copyright (given the artfulness required for font 
design I disagree with this ruling, but the courts rarely consult me 
when making judgments).  The underlying code of vector fonts can be 
protected as software instructions, but the actual rendered image of the 
glyphs themselves are not protected (hence the knock-off industry).


Screenshots which include copyrighted images may fall under "incidental 
use", but as I noted such usage is vaguely defined and may be tested at 
the copyright holder's election.



> This discussion is rapidly reaching its natural end.

Yes, all citations of governing law have demonstrated that distribution 
of pixel-perfect copies of an entire collection Apple's icons represents 
a violation of their copyright.


If this seems unclear the best test of course is to verify this with 
Apple.  I'm not an attorney, and I haven't seen any of the attorneys on 
this list offer their opinions, so while no one here can be of 
assistance the original copyright holder is the one who can best answer 
your question.


--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
 ___
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Who owns old icons?

[Richmond Mathewson]

Images as follows:

http://www.granneman.com/images/mac_icons_1984.gif

http://homepage.mac.com/chinesemac/earlymacs/

http://www.mactech.com/articles/mactech/Vol.05/05.10/DotPrinter/img003.gif

http://www.geocities.jp/classiclll/images2/icon_low.gif

This discussion is rapidly reaching its natural end.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.



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Who owns old icons?

[Richmond Mathewson]

I am startling unoriginal:

http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg00420.html



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.



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Re: Who owns old icons?

[Mikey]

Despite discussions to the contrary, at least according to this article in
Wikipedia , abandonware is still
protected by copyright, regardless of a copyright holder's lack of
enforcement.
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Who owns old icons?

[Richmond Mathewson]

Rick Harrison wrote:

"Unless Apple, Inc. has put all of HyperCard into the public domain,
the HyperCard icons are still owned by Apple, Inc."

which seems pretty clear and unequivocal.

However, old icons are a bit like my face:

I own my face, and were somebody to mysteriously remove it and graft it on to 
another person they would have stolen it.

However, journalists and others photograph people's faces and publish them 
everywhere without so much as a backward glance; and they cannot be said to 
have "stolen people's faces", or even their likenesses.

Now, were I to post the HyperCard application, or, say, a ResEdit document 
containing Hypercard icons on a website and/or user group I would have stolen 
the icons.

However, were I to post (as, indeed I have done) photographs (i.e. screenshots) 
of HyperCard icons; this would be similar to an individual publishing a 
photograph of me s/he took. Of course if it were of me, say, in my bath with a 
plastic duck,I might feel fairly cheesed-off, and that it were an invasion of 
privacy.

Apple have never hid their HyperCard icons in the "bathroom" (they have flashed 
them around like nobody's business), and the 'photographs' of them published on 
my Yahoo Group

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RsHYPERCARD

are not "with plastic ducks"; in fact no 'value judgements' are attached to 
them at all.

Not the same situations, at all!

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.



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Re: Who owns old icons?

[Rick Harrison]

Unless Apple, Inc. has put all of HyperCard into the public domain,
the HyperCard icons are still owned by Apple, Inc.

According to www.wikipedia.org:

"The Copyright Term Extension Act (CTEA) of 1998 – alternatively known  
as the Sonny Bono Copyright Term Extension Act, Sonny Bono Act, or  
pejoratively as the Mickey Mouse Protection Act – extended copyright  
terms in the United States by 20 years. Before the Act (under the  
Copyright Act of 1976), copyright would last for the life of the  
author plus 50 years, or 75 years for a work of corporate authorship;  
the Act extended these terms to life of the author plus 70 years and  
for works of corporate authorship to 120 years after creation or 95  
years after publication, whichever endpoint is earlier.[1] The Act  
also affected copyright terms for copyrighted works published prior to  
January 1, 1978, also increasing their term of protection by 20 years,  
to a total of 95 years from publication."


Unless you can either confirm that Apple, Inc. has put
HyperCard into the public domain, or you have obtained
permission from the Apple, Inc. legal department, you
cannot do what you want with those icons.

Yes, I know it seems terrible, but if you were Apple, Inc.
I'm sure you would want to protect your under used icons too.
After all Apple might want to consider using them for some
different application in the future.

wikipedia.org has a lot more information about copyright,
and I suggest that anyone who is interested to check it out.






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Re: Who owns old icons?

[Judy Perry]

Thanks, Richard, Kay & Mark (not in any particular order other than my
late-night, brain-addled one)!

I forget now what I was going to say... u Oh, yeah, the icons.
 Yeah, they're old, 1-bit, whatever...

But they're still WAYYY COOOL in some cases!

Newer ain't always better...  I can't tell you how many times I've
reached out for the beautiful simplicity of the stack icon, or the
speaker icon, the arrows... etc.

Sheer simplistic beauty.  I LOVED that screen with all of the
miniature graphics.  I still keep around an old OS9 egg-shaped
original iMac just for that purpose!  (well, okay, that and running
the FLYINGCOLORS kidpix-on-steroids app that's only OS9).

Apple didn't hire an artist who specialized in miniaturization for nothing!

24-bit new crap is still crap...

Judy


On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 2:03 PM, Richard Gaskin
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> In spite of any statements from Apple Europe, the last official public
> statement from any authorized representative from Apple's heaquarters in
>  Cupertino was:
>
>  "There have been some rumors about us canceling HyperCard,
>   which are totally bu||sh*t."
>   - Steve Jobs, October 1998, CAUSE Conference
>
> You can enjoy an audio clip of that here: <http://www.ihug.org/>
> AFAIK, no public statement to the contrary has ever been issued from Apple's
> main office.
>
> But no matter how much fun we may have with Jobs' quote, the current status
> of a product's availability has no bearing at all on its copyright
> protection.
>
> Before I continue, California state law requires me to include this
> disclaimer:  "I am not an attorney.  If you need an attorney you should
> consult the services of a qualified professional in your area."
>
> With that out of the way, here's the dope:
>
>   Works created on or after January 1, 1978
>
>   The following rules apply to published and unpublished works:
>
>* For one author, the work is copyright-protected for the life
>  of the author plus 70 years.
>
>* For joint authors, the work is protected for the life of the
>  surviving author plus 70 years.
>
>* For works made for hire, the work is protected for 95 years
>  from the first publication or 120 years from the date of its
>  creation, whichever is less.
>
> <http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/pg/2/objectId/D0C278CD-7D19-4EAD-B5E2124009D20220/catId/2EB060FE-5A4B-4D81-883B0E540CC4CB1E/310/276/136/CHK/>
>
> To the best of my knowledge, under both US law and the Berne Convention
> (which now has 163 signing nations) copyright is granted to the creator of a
> work regardless whether the work is ever even published at all, and remains
> in effect similarly without regard for continued publication or any public
> availability of any kind.
>
> You can create an image, sell it for one day, and then discontinue sales
> forever after and your copyright on any copies of that image you sold that
> day will still remain in effect for as long as you live plus 70 years.
>
> In brief, the creator of a work defines how the work is used.  If you don't
> like the terms granted by the creator your only legal options are to wait a
> very long time, or simply to create your own original work and define its
> terms however you like.
>
> With HyperCard this would seem a minor issue, since in addition to being
> owned by someone else its icons are low-res, 1-bit, and in general rather
> dated.  In the 12 years since HyperCard was last updated the rest of the
> world has continued to move forward, and today you can find thousands of
> free full-color icons all over the web:
>
> <http://images.google.com/images?q=free+icons>
>
> --
>  Richard Gaskin
>  Managing Editor, revJournal
>  ___
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Re: Who owns old icons?

[Richard Gaskin]

In spite of any statements from Apple Europe, the last official public 
statement from any authorized representative from Apple's heaquarters in 
 Cupertino was:


  "There have been some rumors about us canceling HyperCard,
   which are totally bu||sh*t."
   - Steve Jobs, October 1998, CAUSE Conference

You can enjoy an audio clip of that here: <http://www.ihug.org/>
AFAIK, no public statement to the contrary has ever been issued from 
Apple's main office.


But no matter how much fun we may have with Jobs' quote, the current 
status of a product's availability has no bearing at all on its 
copyright protection.


Before I continue, California state law requires me to include this 
disclaimer:  "I am not an attorney.  If you need an attorney you should 
consult the services of a qualified professional in your area."


With that out of the way, here's the dope:

   Works created on or after January 1, 1978

   The following rules apply to published and unpublished works:

* For one author, the work is copyright-protected for the life
  of the author plus 70 years.

* For joint authors, the work is protected for the life of the
  surviving author plus 70 years.

* For works made for hire, the work is protected for 95 years
  from the first publication or 120 years from the date of its
  creation, whichever is less.

<http://www.nolo.com/article.cfm/pg/2/objectId/D0C278CD-7D19-4EAD-B5E2124009D20220/catId/2EB060FE-5A4B-4D81-883B0E540CC4CB1E/310/276/136/CHK/>

To the best of my knowledge, under both US law and the Berne Convention 
(which now has 163 signing nations) copyright is granted to the creator 
of a work regardless whether the work is ever even published at all, and 
remains in effect similarly without regard for continued publication or 
any public availability of any kind.


You can create an image, sell it for one day, and then discontinue sales 
forever after and your copyright on any copies of that image you sold 
that day will still remain in effect for as long as you live plus 70 years.


In brief, the creator of a work defines how the work is used.  If you 
don't like the terms granted by the creator your only legal options are 
to wait a very long time, or simply to create your own original work and 
define its terms however you like.


With HyperCard this would seem a minor issue, since in addition to being 
owned by someone else its icons are low-res, 1-bit, and in general 
rather dated.  In the 12 years since HyperCard was last updated the rest 
of the world has continued to move forward, and today you can find 
thousands of free full-color icons all over the web:


<http://images.google.com/images?q=free+icons>

--
 Richard Gaskin
 Managing Editor, revJournal
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Re: Who owns old icons?

[Stephen Barncard]

and whoever wrote the Wickipedia article knew about Revolution and 
put it first in the list of decendants of Hypercard.


Other companies offered their own versions. Three products are 
currently available which offer HyperCard-like functionality:


Runtime Revolution's Revolution expands greatly on HyperCard's 
feature set and offers color and a GUI toolkit which can be deployed 
on many popular platforms




 still exists. Previously, it 
contained a product description, later it referred to the Apple 
store, and now it redirects to Wikipedia! I get the impression 
that someone at Apple must still have warm feelings for it.

Mark Schonewille


--


stephen barncard
s a n  f r a n c i s c o
- - -  - - - - - - - - -


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Re: Who owns old icons?

[Kay C Lan]

On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 8:01 PM, Mark Schonewille <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>
> There's one thing that very much surprises me, given Apple's statements.
> The link  still exists. Previously, it
> contained a product description, later it referred to the Apple store, and
> now it redirects to Wikipedia!


Interesting indeed!


> I get the impression that someone at Apple must still have warm feelings
> for it.


:-) I'm sure he or she is not alone :-)
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Who owns old icons?

[Richmond Mathewson]

Just posted the following on my Yahoo Group:

http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/RsHYPERCARD/

"Someone, somewhere else, stated that by doing this I had behaved in a way that 
was "not kosher".

And that may be so (if by "kosher" legality is meant, as morally I feel I have 
done something no worse than pick up a bicycle that has been sitting, unlocked, 
by the roadside for more than 10 years), so I shall just state the following:-

If the owners of these icons (Apple Computer ?) care to contact me and tell me 
they would rather I removed these files from this Yahoo Group (as well as from 
links on my website) I will remove them directly, and apologise.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson."



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.



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Re: Who owns old icons?

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Kay,

We discussed similar possibilities. Apple isn't going to do that,  
because it would be too expensive to make it official. They just  
refuse to do *anything* with HyperCard.


There's one thing that very much surprises me, given Apple's  
statements. The link <http://www.apple.com/hypercard> still exists.  
Previously, it contained a product description, later it referred to  
the Apple store, and now it redirects to Wikipedia! I get the  
impression that someone at Apple must still have warm feelings for it.


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Benefit from our inexpensive hosting services. See http://economy-x-talk.com/server.html 
 for more info.


On 3 aug 2008, at 13:42, Kay C Lan wrote:


Yes, AppleWorks is there but I can't remember seeing the IIGS there.

Again, as I stated in my first post, this is my impression, not a  
statement
of the true legal situation. Whilst Marketing, R&D may know that HC  
is dead,
and high placed exec's in certain circumstances may state that HC is  
dead,

can you guarantee the legal vultures want come calling.

My reference to HC not being dead was not as a starry eyed User ever  
hopeful
of HCs resurrection but in context of the legal ramifications of  
copying
other people's work, even if it is old work. IMO I don't think what  
Richmond
has done with the HC button icons is kosher, but I don't think Apple  
will
come calling. On the other hand, did you ask the GD of Apple Europe  
if you
could convert all the official HC documents to pdf format and  
distribute it
and everything that came on the floppies onto a single CD and then  
sell if
for a small price? If you didn't ask that question, what do you  
imagine the

answer would be?

To me, the existence of HC on the Apple software registration site  
is all
Apple needs to do to confirm they are still very much the owners of  
all
things HC. ie it's not public domain. It will be lawyers, not  
Marketing, R&D
or GDs, who decide what to do with people who don't respect that  
ownership.


Not a lawyer so I'm probably completely wrong.



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Re: Who owns old icons?

[Kay C Lan]

On Sun, Aug 3, 2008 at 5:31 PM, Mark Schonewille <
[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> That's not true. Apple declared HyperCard dead. They deliberately took
> their HyperCard website off-line and the general director of Apple Europe
> told me Apple would never ever invest in HyperCard again and apparently they
> wouldn't even consider buying stamps to ship any remaining inventory to
> Europe.
>

I'm sure that is all true

>
> I haven't seen that list lately, but I guess AppleWorks for Apple IIGS is
> still on it too.
>

Yes, AppleWorks is there but I can't remember seeing the IIGS there.

Again, as I stated in my first post, this is my impression, not a statement
of the true legal situation. Whilst Marketing, R&D may know that HC is dead,
and high placed exec's in certain circumstances may state that HC is dead,
can you guarantee the legal vultures want come calling.

My reference to HC not being dead was not as a starry eyed User ever hopeful
of HCs resurrection but in context of the legal ramifications of copying
other people's work, even if it is old work. IMO I don't think what Richmond
has done with the HC button icons is kosher, but I don't think Apple will
come calling. On the other hand, did you ask the GD of Apple Europe if you
could convert all the official HC documents to pdf format and distribute it
and everything that came on the floppies onto a single CD and then sell if
for a small price? If you didn't ask that question, what do you imagine the
answer would be?

To me, the existence of HC on the Apple software registration site is all
Apple needs to do to confirm they are still very much the owners of all
things HC. ie it's not public domain. It will be lawyers, not Marketing, R&D
or GDs, who decide what to do with people who don't respect that ownership.

Not a lawyer so I'm probably completely wrong.
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Re: Who owns old icons?

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Kay,

That's not true. Apple declared HyperCard dead. They deliberately took  
their HyperCard website off-line and the general director of Apple  
Europe told me Apple would never ever invest in HyperCard again and  
apparently they wouldn't even consider buying stamps to ship any  
remaining inventory to Europe.


I haven't seen that list lately, but I guess AppleWorks for Apple IIGS  
is still on it too.


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Benefit from our inexpensive hosting services. See http://economy-x-talk.com/server.html 
 for more info.


On 3 aug 2008, at 11:08, Kay C Lan wrote:

On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Richmond Mathewson <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
>wrote:


Don't know what the true legal status is, but what I can confirm is  
that the
last time I registered software with Apple, 10.5, HyperCard was  
still listed

as a product that could be registered. So although HC may be old, my
impression is Apple feel that although it isn't moving, it ain't dead.

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Re: Who owns old icons?

[Kay C Lan]

On Sat, Aug 2, 2008 at 4:16 PM, Richmond Mathewson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>wrote:


> However, I don't know the legal status of these .jpg and .png images, and
> don't really want a large fruit breathing down my neck.
>

Don't know what the true legal status is, but what I can confirm is that the
last time I registered software with Apple, 10.5, HyperCard was still listed
as a product that could be registered. So although HC may be old, my
impression is Apple feel that although it isn't moving, it ain't dead.
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Re: HC icons as Jpegs.

[Jim Ault]

On 8/2/08 3:01 PM, "Lynn Fredricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>> shared memories? Culture? Things museums are made for?
> 
> Related to this - how many of you have very ancient macs sitting about, or
> some of the older weird ones/peripherals?

My 128K Mac is in the garage.
Bought with 800K floppy upgrade + 800K external floppy
+ trackball-10 key pad by MacAlley
There was no hard drive available.
Purchased in Raleigh, NC.

2 Mb Dove RAM upgrade fills the back of the case.
Added exhaust fan for cooling
Uses Roger Bates RamDisk+ to create
400K system memory and 1.6K working memory

Can't run any later than System 5.1

Runs Excel 1.0, Word 1.0, ResEdit.
Appletalk connection allows output to a network laser printer.

Jim Ault
Las Vegas


On 8/2/08 3:01 PM, "Lynn Fredricks" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>>> I need to be enlightened:
>>> But don't take it bad :-)
>>> 
>>> What is this HC nostalgia?
>>> 
>> 
>> shared memories? Culture? Things museums are made for?
> 
> Related to this - how many of you have very ancient macs sitting about, or
> some of the older weird ones/peripherals?
> 
> We have an ancient SE/30 and a PowerCD. The PowerCD was cool because you
> could view Kodak PhotoCDs (the older, high resolution ones) on your
> television. Even has a remote. And HyperCard runs very nicely on the SE/30.
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Lynn Fredricks
> President
> Paradigma Software
> http://www.paradigmasoft.com
> 
> Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server
> 
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RE: HC icons as Jpegs.

[Lynn Fredricks]

> > I need to be enlightened:
> > But don't take it bad :-)
> >
> > What is this HC nostalgia?
> >
> 
> shared memories? Culture? Things museums are made for?

Related to this - how many of you have very ancient macs sitting about, or
some of the older weird ones/peripherals?

We have an ancient SE/30 and a PowerCD. The PowerCD was cool because you
could view Kodak PhotoCDs (the older, high resolution ones) on your
television. Even has a remote. And HyperCard runs very nicely on the SE/30.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
President
Paradigma Software
http://www.paradigmasoft.com

Valentina SQL Server: The Ultra-fast, Royalty Free Database Server 

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Re: HC icons as Jpegs.

[François Chaplais]

Le 1 août 08 à 21:03, Eric Chatonet a écrit :


Bonjour Lynn et Richmond and Charles,

Le 1 août 08 à 19:04, Lynn Fredricks a écrit :


Hi Richmond,


Here are the HyperCard icons in a convenient ZIP file as JPGs:

http://mail.maclaunch.com/richmond/HCICONS.zip


Thanks man :-)


I need to be enlightened:
But don't take it bad :-)

What is this HC nostalgia?



shared memories? Culture? Things museums are made for?

François
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System 6 icons as JPEGS.

[Richmond Mathewson]

Retro-Fetishists can now download Mac OS System 6 icons as JPEGS:

http://mail.maclaunch.com/richmond/SysSix.zip

Don't shoot me I'm only the piano player.

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.


A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.



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Who owns old icons?

[Richmond Mathewson]

Having converted the HC icons into JPGs and PNGs I should like to put them 
somewhere more accessible than buried on my moribund website (Updated it last 3 
years ago as it serves almost no purpose); maybe on a Yahoo group, or elsewhere.

However, I don't know the legal status of these .jpg and .png images, and don't 
really want a large fruit breathing down my neck.

Would be glad if someone who knows could advise.

[It might also be useful to consider the old icons buried in Mac OS 6 and so on]

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.



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HyperCard Icons: Here they are as PINGS!

[Richmond Mathewson]

For those of you who like PNGs:

http://mail.maclaunch.com/richmond/HCPING.zip

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.



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Re: HC icons as Jpegs.

[Eric Chatonet]

Bonjour Lynn et Richmond and Charles,

Le 1 août 08 à 19:04, Lynn Fredricks a écrit :


Hi Richmond,


Here are the HyperCard icons in a convenient ZIP file as JPGs:

http://mail.maclaunch.com/richmond/HCICONS.zip


Thanks man :-)


I need to be enlightened:
But don't take it bad :-)

What is this HC nostalgia?
These icons are about twenty five years old!
And BW only.
If I used them in any project, my clients would got scared ;-)

Above all, coming from you, Lynn, with respect to your attributions  
in Runrev, I don't understand:
Rev allows any 32 bits image, with alpha channel or not, and whatever  
can be it's size, to be an icon.

Did you miss it?
;-)

Best regards from Paris,
Eric Chatonet.

Plugins and tutorials for Revolution: http://www.sosmartsoftware.com/
Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]/



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Re: HC icons as Jpegs.

[Charles Szasz]

Richmond,

Thanks for taking time to put them in a stack!

Here are the HyperCard icons in a convenient ZIP file as JPGs:



-- 
View this message in context: 
http://www.nabble.com/HC-icons-as-Jpegs.-tp18778512p18780459.html
Sent from the Revolution - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com.

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RE: HC icons as Jpegs.

[Lynn Fredricks]

Hi Richmond,

> Here are the HyperCard icons in a convenient ZIP file as JPGs:
> 
> http://mail.maclaunch.com/richmond/HCICONS.zip

Thanks man :-)

Some look repeated, but don't they have slight differences for animations?

These are also the identifier names in Res Edit, right? Been a long time
since I used Res Edit - from back in the days when I had a different company
that did localization.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
Mirye Software Publishing
http://www.mirye.com

Mirye Community NING
http://miryesoftware.ning.com 

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Re: HyperCard Icons: Here they are as JPGs.

[-= JB =-]

Thank you, very nice!

-=>JB<=-


On Aug 1, 2008, at 9:42 AM, Richmond Mathewson wrote:

For those of you who want them as JPEG files they are available in  
a convenient ZIP file:


http://mail.maclaunch.com/richmond/HCICONS.zip

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development  
Life Cycle.




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HC icons as Jpegs.

[Richmond Mathewson]

Here are the HyperCard icons in a convenient ZIP file as JPGs:

http://mail.maclaunch.com/richmond/HCICONS.zip

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson


A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.



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HyperCard Icons: Here they are as JPGs.

[Richmond Mathewson]

For those of you who want them as JPEG files they are available in a convenient 
ZIP file:

http://mail.maclaunch.com/richmond/HCICONS.zip

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.



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HyperCard Icons: Here they are!

[Richmond Mathewson]

A stack containing the HyperCard icons as JPEG images is available at:

http://mail.maclaunch.com/richmond/HC ICONS.rev.zip

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.



A Thorn in the flesh is better than a failed Systems Development Life Cycle.



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List of HyperCard Icons

[Richmond Mathewson]

Lynn Fredricks wrote:

"Has anyone exported all the icons from HyperCard? I do indeed have it, but its 
thriving quite nicely on an old SE 30 and rather inaccessible. What I am 
looking for is hopefully an export of the icons into a format that's a bit more 
modern - jpg, png, etc."

and I have spent a long time guttering about with Resedit and Metacard under OS 
9 to create a stack with all the HC icons in sequential contiguous order. So 
now have a very pretty stack with all the icons in the resource fork (that will 
be fun on Windows or Linux) and a series of 50 x 50 buttons sporting those 
icons.

So am slightly cheesed-off as cannot for the life of me work out how to export 
images of buttons from RR.

Obviously being stupid and missing something right in front of my nose.

Go on, I dare you, tell me how to do it . . .

Of course, if I wanted to be nasty I could point out to Lynn that things would 
probably be a lot quicker with a USB floppy drive and a batch converter such as 
Graphic Converter!

And while I'm here, does anyone know the legal status of HyperCard icons; or, 
put it another way, if I upload a RR/MC stack with them and/or jpg/png files 
will Steve Jobs smack my hand?

sincerely, Richmond Mathewson.



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List of HyperCard Icons

[Lynn Fredricks]

Hi all,

Has anyone exported all the icons from HyperCard? I do indeed have it, but
its thriving quite nicely on an old SE 30 and rather inaccessible. What I am
looking for is hopefully an export of the icons into a format that's a bit
more modern - jpg, png, etc.

Best regards,

Lynn Fredricks
Mirye Software Publishing
http://www.mirye.com

Mirye Community NING
http://miryesoftware.ning.com 

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Re: HyperCard Button Icons

[dbrooks]

Thanks Jacque, Mark, and Phil.

This tells me where to look.

Best,

Dave B.



David Brooks wrote:

The converted stack (HC --> RR)  DOES have the icons. When those   
buttons are copied to a stack created in RR, they appear.  Once   
that original stack is removed from memory, the icons are no longer  
 available. Is there an easy way to access these icons?  I did get  
a  png file of the stack library which I suppose I can cut up to  
make  individual image files? Finding a machine running ResEdit  
will take  longer than carving up the png file. In any event, I'd  
like to  learn more about this.




Because the original icons are in RAM when the converted stack is open,
they appear in the second, native RR stack. But when you close the
original, the icons are no longer accessible. You need to copy the
icons to the new native stack.

Converted HC icons are imported to an unplaced group called "HC Icons".
You should be able to see it in the Objects/Place Group menu. In the
original stack, place that group temporarily (you can always unplace it
again later,) select the group and copy it. Then paste the group into
the new stack. Once you've done that, you can unplace the group from
the new stack's card so that it is no longer visible.

Alternately, just type in the message box:

 copy bg "HC Icons" from stack "convertedStack" to stack "newStack"

You may need to check the button IDs as suggested, or they may just
work as-is anyway.

--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: HyperCard Button Icons

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Jacque,

You appear to be right. The HCAddressing doesn't affect the ID's, only  
whether "card" or "background" is included in object references. So,  
the problem really must be that the images are only in the original  
stack and copying them should be sufficient.


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Benefit from our inexpensive hosting services. See http://economy-x-talk.com/server.html 
 for more info.


On 24 jul 2008, at 06:47, J. Landman Gay wrote:


Actually, the engine checks both the ID and the altID when looking  
for an object, regardless of the HCAddressing property. It uses the  
first match it finds.



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Re: HyperCard Button Icons

[J. Landman Gay]

Mark Schonewille wrote:

Yes, there is a problem with ID numbers. Probably, the buttons are using 
the altID of the images. The images are in the original stack. The 
hcAddressing of the new stack is false, which means that the normal ID 
instead of the altID is used and thus the icons don't appear in the new 
stack.


Actually, the engine checks both the ID and the altID when looking for 
an object, regardless of the HCAddressing property. It uses the first 
match it finds.


--
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HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: HyperCard Button Icons

[J. Landman Gay]

David Brooks wrote:

The converted stack (HC --> RR)  DOES have the icons. When those buttons 
are copied to a stack created in RR, they appear.  Once that original 
stack is removed from memory, the icons are no longer available. Is 
there an easy way to access these icons?  I did get a png file of the 
stack library which I suppose I can cut up to make individual image 
files? Finding a machine running ResEdit will take longer than carving 
up the png file. In any event, I'd like to learn more about this.




Because the original icons are in RAM when the converted stack is open, 
they appear in the second, native RR stack. But when you close the 
original, the icons are no longer accessible. You need to copy the icons 
to the new native stack.


Converted HC icons are imported to an unplaced group called "HC Icons". 
You should be able to see it in the Objects/Place Group menu. In the 
original stack, place that group temporarily (you can always unplace it 
again later,) select the group and copy it. Then paste the group into 
the new stack. Once you've done that, you can unplace the group from the 
new stack's card so that it is no longer visible.


Alternately, just type in the message box:

 copy bg "HC Icons" from stack "convertedStack" to stack "newStack"

You may need to check the button IDs as suggested, or they may just work 
as-is anyway.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: HyperCard Button Icons

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Phil and Dave,

Yes, there is a problem with ID numbers. Probably, the buttons are  
using the altID of the images. The images are in the original stack.  
The hcAddressing of the new stack is false, which means that the  
normal ID instead of the altID is used and thus the icons don't appear  
in the new stack.


You need to copy the images, check the ID numbers and make sure to use  
the correct ID numbers for the icons of the buttons.


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Benefit from our inexpensive hosting services. See http://economy-x-talk.com/server.html 
 for more info.


On 24 jul 2008, at 00:45, Phil Davis wrote:


Hi Dave,

Here's my best guess:
When you copy the icons to the new stack, RR gives them new IDs  
unrelated to the original IDs they have in the converted stack. The  
buttons are still looking for the old icon IDs which are now gone  
from memory (after closing old stack), so no icons are displayed.


To fix it, you can either change the ID of the images or change the  
icon properties of the buttons so they reference the images in the  
RR stack.


Phil


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Re: HyperCard Button Icons

[Phil Davis]

Hi Dave,

Here's my best guess:
When you copy the icons to the new stack, RR gives them new IDs 
unrelated to the original IDs they have in the converted stack. The 
buttons are still looking for the old icon IDs which are now gone from 
memory (after closing old stack), so no icons are displayed.


To fix it, you can either change the ID of the images or change the icon 
properties of the buttons so they reference the images in the RR stack.


Phil


David Brooks wrote:
I foolishly was so excited by the RunRev conference in Las Vegas that 
I agreed to teach a course in RunRev.


Now that the rubber is 5 weeks away from hitting the road, I'm 
learning about "issues."


A HyperCard  demonstration came from a stack called StackStarter by 
Robertson Smith. The user clicks on a button named shark. That button 
disappears and a new button appears as a fin that 'chases' the cursor 
until they meet up (i.e., button catches cursor). The button icon 
changes to an open shark's mouth, (the first finger) cursor disappears 
and is replaced by an amputated stump (button icon), and a chomping 
sound is played. After a delay, the original button is restored, the 
cursor is restored,  and this "jaws" button hides. Once they 
demonstrate a skill, fourth graders love to see how long they can 
evade the shark.


The converted stack (HC --> RR)  DOES have the icons. When those 
buttons are copied to a stack created in RR, they appear.  Once that 
original stack is removed from memory, the icons are no longer 
available. Is there an easy way to access these icons?  I did get a 
png file of the stack library which I suppose I can cut up to make 
individual image files? Finding a machine running ResEdit will take 
longer than carving up the png file. In any event, I'd like to learn 
more about this.


Thanks in advance.

Best,

Dave B. 

--
Phil Davis

PDS Labs
Professional Software Development
http://pdslabs.net

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HyperCard Button Icons

[David Brooks]

I foolishly was so excited by the RunRev conference in Las Vegas that  
I agreed to teach a course in RunRev.


Now that the rubber is 5 weeks away from hitting the road, I'm  
learning about "issues."


A HyperCard  demonstration came from a stack called StackStarter by  
Robertson Smith. The user clicks on a button named shark. That button  
disappears and a new button appears as a fin that 'chases' the cursor  
until they meet up (i.e., button catches cursor). The button icon  
changes to an open shark's mouth, (the first finger) cursor disappears  
and is replaced by an amputated stump (button icon), and a chomping  
sound is played. After a delay, the original button is restored, the  
cursor is restored,  and this "jaws" button hides. Once they  
demonstrate a skill, fourth graders love to see how long they can  
evade the shark.


The converted stack (HC --> RR)  DOES have the icons. When those  
buttons are copied to a stack created in RR, they appear.  Once that  
original stack is removed from memory, the icons are no longer  
available. Is there an easy way to access these icons?  I did get a  
png file of the stack library which I suppose I can cut up to make  
individual image files? Finding a machine running ResEdit will take  
longer than carving up the png file. In any event, I'd like to learn  
more about this.


Thanks in advance.

Best,

Dave B.


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Re: Mac OS9 icons

[Scott Morrow]

Mark,
Thanks!  Knowing about the icns resource was enough to get me going.   
I've been using ResEdit (which, of course, doesn't show the icns  
resource)  Now my icons are all working great in OS9 even if I take  
them apart and put them back together.  Not that hoping to build a  
bunch for OS9 but that has been bugging me for a long time and it is  
really satisfying to have  a better understanding!


Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
http://elementarysoftware.com/


On Jul 20, 2008, at 8:18 AM, Mark Schonewille wrote:


Hi Scott,

You can add an icns resource to the resource for of the application.  
I believe it has to be a particular ID number, but I don't remember  
exactly how it works.


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Benefit from our inexpensive hosting services. See http://economy-x-talk.com/server.html 
 for more info.


On 20 jul 2008, at 12:24, Scott Morrow wrote:

I'm needing to "suck up" and "spit out" Mac OS9 applications. I'm  
unable to maintain the higher resolution icon that I have been  
pasting into the "Get Info" information window before "sucking up"  
the application.  This icon isn't stored with the more primitive  
ions in the resfile: data.  I've been looking for a way to use  
AppleScript but haven't got enough of a lead to make any headway,  
yet.  Any ideas appreciated!


Scott Morrow


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Re: Mac OS9 icons

[Mark Schonewille]

Hi Scott,

You can add an icns resource to the resource for of the application. I  
believe it has to be a particular ID number, but I don't remember  
exactly how it works.


--
Best regards,

Mark Schonewille

Economy-x-Talk Consulting and Software Engineering
http://economy-x-talk.com
http://www.salery.biz

Benefit from our inexpensive hosting services. See http://economy-x-talk.com/server.html 
 for more info.


On 20 jul 2008, at 12:24, Scott Morrow wrote:

I'm needing to "suck up" and "spit out" Mac OS9 applications. I'm  
unable to maintain the higher resolution icon that I have been  
pasting into the "Get Info" information window before "sucking up"  
the application.  This icon isn't stored with the more primitive  
ions in the resfile: data.  I've been looking for a way to use  
AppleScript but haven't got enough of a lead to make any headway,  
yet.  Any ideas appreciated!


Scott Morrow


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Mac OS9 icons

[Scott Morrow]

I'm needing to "suck up" and "spit out" Mac OS9 applications. I'm  
unable to maintain the higher resolution icon that I have been pasting  
into the "Get Info" information window before "sucking up" the  
application.  This icon isn't stored with the more primitive ions in  
the resfile: data.  I've been looking for a way to use AppleScript but  
haven't got enough of a lead to make any headway, yet.  Any ideas  
appreciated!


Scott Morrow

Elementary Software
(Now with 20% less chalk dust!)
web   http://elementarysoftware.com/
email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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Re: icons

[viktoras didziulis]

http://tango.freedesktop.org/Tango_Desktop_Project
http://interfacelift.com/icons-mac/
http://www.famfamfam.com/lab/icons/
http://www.kde-look.org/index.php?xsortmode=high&page=0
http://www.everaldo.com/crystal/?action=downloads
etc, etc, etc...

Viktoras

Mikey wrote:

Does anybody have any recommendations for some good free application icon
sets - add, next, prev, print, find, exit, etc.?

  


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icons

[Mikey]

Does anybody have any recommendations for some good free application icon
sets - add, next, prev, print, find, exit, etc.?

-- 
On the first day, God created the heavens and the Earth
On the second day, God created the oceans.
On the third day, God put the animals on hold for a few hours,
and did a little diving.
And God said, "This is good."
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Re: Rev Icons

[J. Landman Gay]

RevList wrote:

How to use Revolution  on July 6, 2008 at
10:44 AM -0700 wrote:
The ID number is too high for it to be a native Rev icon, so it must be 
somewhere in the stack. Or if the stack is a substack, it may be in the 
mainstack. One typical place to store icon images is in an unplaced 
group, so see if any of the cards have one of those. The Application 
Browser is an easy way to see that.

Actually, all of the icons I was looking for are in the revIcons.rev stack
that is in the tools folder.
I found them all.


Sorry to have mislead you. The docs say that rev icons are in the range 
of 301-1000, but now that I look again, it does say that these very high 
numbers are reserved for application use.



Now, if I am going to build a runtime solution, will these icons be
included, or will I have to add the images and set the corresponding Icon
ID in my own stack before building the runtime.


I always copy them in and use the new ID number. But I think the 
standalone builder will search for the built-in icons if you allow it to 
scan for resources. I never do that though, so maybe someone else can 
confirm.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Rev Icons

[RevList]

How to use Revolution  on July 6, 2008 at
10:44 AM -0700 wrote:
>The ID number is too high for it to be a native Rev icon, so it must be 
>somewhere in the stack. Or if the stack is a substack, it may be in the 
>mainstack. One typical place to store icon images is in an unplaced 
>group, so see if any of the cards have one of those. The Application 
>Browser is an easy way to see that.
Actually, all of the icons I was looking for are in the revIcons.rev stack
that is in the tools folder.
I found them all.

Now, if I am going to build a runtime solution, will these icons be
included, or will I have to add the images and set the corresponding Icon
ID in my own stack before building the runtime.

Stewart


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Re: Rev Icons

[william humphrey]

Thanks (as always) for the help with the field labeling gray thing and also
the info on where we should store our imported icons.
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Re: Rev Icons

[J. Landman Gay]

william humphrey wrote:

Of course when the enabled of a field is set to false then it doesn't
respond to any mouseenter, mousedown etc.

So how do you make it magically erase the label inside it and become enabled
when a mouse clicks in it?


What I usually do is place a text string into the field and set the 
textcolor of the field to a medium gray. On openfield, remove the text 
and set the textcolor of the field to empty. On closefield and 
exitfield, see if the field is empty and if so, set the textcolor back 
to gray and re-insert your original string.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Rev Icons

[J. Landman Gay]

RevList wrote:

When I was browsing through some stacks made by others, I am discovering
some ICON ids that are used and as far as I can see, are not images that
are within the stack itself, but must be standard REV icons.

For example, ID 2800082 is an icon image of a couple of cards stacked on
top of each other.

When I go to the property of a button that has this image, I see the Icon
ID but when I click on the magic wand beside it to select from the picker,
the icon is not visible in any of the selection lists.

How can I discover what all of these hidden icons are and there
corresponding IDs?


The ID number is too high for it to be a native Rev icon, so it must be 
somewhere in the stack. Or if the stack is a substack, it may be in the 
mainstack. One typical place to store icon images is in an unplaced 
group, so see if any of the cards have one of those. The Application 
Browser is an easy way to see that.


Rev's icon picker will display images that appear in the current stack 
if you choose "This Stack" from the popup menu. But (if I remember 
right) it won't display images in any other stacks, even if they are in 
the message hierarchy. You need to make a stack the current one to see 
what images it contains.


The icon you are describing sounds a little like an old HyperCard icon. 
If so, the stack may have been imported from an original HC stack. All 
the icons in imported HC stacks are stored in an unplaced group called 
"HC Icons", so you may want to look for that. One easy way to do that is 
to pull down the Objects/Place Group menu item to see if that group is 
available.


--
Jacqueline Landman Gay | [EMAIL PROTECTED]
HyperActive Software   | http://www.hyperactivesw.com
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Re: Rev Icons

[william humphrey]

Of course when the enabled of a field is set to false then it doesn't
respond to any mouseenter, mousedown etc.

So how do you make it magically erase the label inside it and become enabled
when a mouse clicks in it?
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Re: Rev Icons

[william humphrey]

Scratch that -- the label is gray when fld is told to be disabled.
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Re: Rev Icons

[william humphrey]

I was wondering. In the apple interface (many Apple programs) often fields
are named by having a grayed out text in the field when it is empty like:
"first name" in a slightly larger bold version of the font that is screened
gray like 40%.

Is it best to do this in RunRev by making an icon for each fld with the
grayed text for that fld which shows when the fld is empty


Or is it better (and I don't know how to do this) to choose a gray larger
font somehow actually written in the fld when it is empty?
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Re: Rev Icons

[william humphrey]

When you import an image into the stack it also becomes selectable as an
icon (you probably know this already) but then there must be someway to
convert that imported image to one of the ones like you see in those lists
of metacard icons and others. I don't know how to do this so when I import
an image to use as an icon I just "hide" it.
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