Re: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
+1 Jesse Alexander (KBSA 21) wrote: First of all: Happy Birthday Ted (maybe a bit late, but I read the Struts mailinglist only in the office because of its hig volume) Is Struts a product? - If products means that it is marketed: I do not have the feeling - If product means something like MS Office: thank god it is not... -> rather not Is Struts a community? - a community should mean people helping people - in a technical problem: Struts (and this mailing list): definitely true - getting a good start in the weekend: Struts definitely is that (all thos wonderfull OT - friday - beer threads. They get you in a good cheerfull mood ;-) - in defficult times (eg. job-loss): the growing list of Struts-jobs means: definitely true - A community keeps you hooked on to it, even if some reasons why you joined it, are not true anymore: definitely true (I work now on establishing a JSF-infrastructure for our company, but I CANNOT unsubscribe this mailing list: too many usefull bits of info and I would miss this example of a good "company") For me this means +indefinitely (>1) Struts is a community!!! regards Alexander PS: I WISH something similar could happen to JSF ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: jsf] RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
[EMAIL PROTECTED] is also active, but not to the extent of the MyFaces user list. Duncan http://www.groundside.com/blog [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Is there any other "real" list than MyFaces :) Hermod -Original Message- From: Jesse Alexander (KBSA 21) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:48 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT: jsf] RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community which JSF list? the myfaces-list or another one? (I follow myfaces, because sun offers only a rather unfriendly forum...) Alexander (promoting Struts until I got JSF ready for our people ;-) ) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:20 PM To: user@struts.apache.org Subject: RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community Hi Nag Nag - Have you followed the JSF list lately ? Hermod (A great fan of Struts - and lately also JSF/Shale) -Original Message- From: Jesse Alexander (KBSA 21) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:02 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community First of all: Happy Birthday Ted (maybe a bit late, but I read the Struts mailinglist only in the office because of its hig volume) Is Struts a product? - If products means that it is marketed: I do not have the feeling - If product means something like MS Office: thank god it is not... -> rather not Is Struts a community? - a community should mean people helping people - in a technical problem: Struts (and this mailing list): definitely true - getting a good start in the weekend: Struts definitely is that (all thos wonderfull OT - friday - beer threads. They get you in a good cheerfull mood ;-) - in defficult times (eg. job-loss): the growing list of Struts-jobs means: definitely true - A community keeps you hooked on to it, even if some reasons why you joined it, are not true anymore: definitely true (I work now on establishing a JSF-infrastructure for our company, but I CANNOT unsubscribe this mailing list: too many usefull bits of info and I would miss this example of a good "company") For me this means +indefinitely (>1) Struts is a community!!! regards Alexander PS: I WISH something similar could happen to JSF ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email with attachments is solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Please also be aware that the DnB NOR Group cannot accept any payment orders or other legally binding correspondence with customers as a part of an email. This email message has been virus checked by the virus programs used in the DnB NOR Group. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
Marsh-Bourdon, Christopher wrote the following on 4/11/2005 9:26 AM: How's about calling us a "prommunity" where the product is the community (in part)? Yea, I like this - it's similar to Kramer and Frank's "bro" or "manzier":) (Happy belated birthday Ted) -- Rick - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
Happy Birthday, Ted. Many more! Both and they are not antithetical or a choice. Jack On Apr 10, 2005 4:55 AM, Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > As of about 2a EST this morning, 134,788 messages were posted to this > list. Even for five years, that's a lot of traffic! > > Most of those messages have been about users helping other users. Some > others, often marked "Friday" or "Beer" have been about users > entertaining users. :) And, occasionally, we have waxed introspective > and discussed "What is Struts anyway?". > > Some people have said that Struts is a brand that marks a product. Our > benefactor, the Apache Software Foundation, calls Struts a "Project". > > Project is a good word, but it's really a euphemism: Project is an ASF > code word that means "Community". From an ASF perspective, we're not > here to build software, but to build a development community, and let > the community build the software. We believe that great communities > build great technology. > > Over the years, the Struts community *has* built some great > technology. Aside from the Struts Action package, we've built Tiles > and the Validator. We've built Bean-Utils and the Digester. And > Collections, and File Upload, and Resources. And Chain. A good portion > of all the components in the Jakarta Commons today is technology that > Struts built. > > The technologies that Struts built are not just gizmos we use with our > own controller or taglib components. Dozens of other software > projects, and thousands of teams, use these technologies every day, > whether they use our application framework or not. > > IMHO, this is what it means to be a community rather than a product, a > people rather than a brand. It means that first we try to help each > other, and then we try to package our solution to share with all > comers. But, the map is not the land, and the solution is not the > project. > > Since today is my birthday, I thought I'd take the liberty of calling > for a referendum on a topic that is close to my heart: > > What do you say? Are we a product or a community? > > Here's my +1 for community. > > -Ted. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- "You can lead a horse to water but you cannot make it float on its back." ~Dakota Jack~ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
It is simply a community. I my case I had started my own version of Struts without realizing that there was already one created but with a community behind it ! I soon stopped using my own and switched to Struts. [Okay, I still have on application in production yet to be converted] In the end Struts is way of doing things within an MVC architecture. However, it is an industry wide accepted and used framework. This is a powerful argument in the corporate world... since there is a community behind it, lots of documentation/books, and lots of resources who know it. The framework would not have advanced so quickly without the community,,, for developers to commit code, for users to use it, the whole for injecting the framework with a momentum to sustain its evolution. - Glenn
RE: jsf] RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
so far the [beer] and [OT] threads that make up the "other" part of the struts-mailing list are missing though ;-) Alexander -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 3:12 PM To: user@struts.apache.org Subject: RE: jsf] RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community Hi Is there any other "real" list than MyFaces :) Hermod -Original Message- From: Jesse Alexander (KBSA 21) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:48 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT: jsf] RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community which JSF list? the myfaces-list or another one? (I follow myfaces, because sun offers only a rather unfriendly forum...) Alexander (promoting Struts until I got JSF ready for our people ;-) ) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:20 PM To: user@struts.apache.org Subject: RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community Hi Nag Nag - Have you followed the JSF list lately ? Hermod (A great fan of Struts - and lately also JSF/Shale) -Original Message- From: Jesse Alexander (KBSA 21) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:02 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community First of all: Happy Birthday Ted (maybe a bit late, but I read the Struts mailinglist only in the office because of its hig volume) Is Struts a product? - If products means that it is marketed: I do not have the feeling - If product means something like MS Office: thank god it is not... -> rather not Is Struts a community? - a community should mean people helping people - in a technical problem: Struts (and this mailing list): definitely true - getting a good start in the weekend: Struts definitely is that (all thos wonderfull OT - friday - beer threads. They get you in a good cheerfull mood ;-) - in defficult times (eg. job-loss): the growing list of Struts-jobs means: definitely true - A community keeps you hooked on to it, even if some reasons why you joined it, are not true anymore: definitely true (I work now on establishing a JSF-infrastructure for our company, but I CANNOT unsubscribe this mailing list: too many usefull bits of info and I would miss this example of a good "company") For me this means +indefinitely (>1) Struts is a community!!! regards Alexander PS: I WISH something similar could happen to JSF ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email with attachments is solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Please also be aware that the DnB NOR Group cannot accept any payment orders or other legally binding correspondence with customers as a part of an email. This email message has been virus checked by the virus programs used in the DnB NOR Group. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
The safe answer is of course that it is both, and it's the answer I give... If it was only a product, I would say it would be worth considerably less if there wasn't such a great community built around it... And if it was just a community I would say that is kind of pointless without a product at the core. So, I suppose you could count me as +1 on both sides :) But, if you aren't satisfied with the safe answer, I'd have to go with product. I work in a corporate environment. A community doesn't matter very much in such an environment (not to the higher-ups I mean), but a product most certainly does. A product implies accountability if something goes wrong. Of course that really isn't the case with Struts, although in a sense the community as a whole is accountable. Big companies like having someone to blame, so they tend to shy away from anything that isn't a product because there tends to not be anyone to blame then. Struts is kind of an exception, as I suppose any much-used OSS project is really... you accept to a degree that there really isn't accountability so to speak, except to a community. That's why OSS software, while it is gaining acceptance, is still not used as much as commercial software... the decision-makers in big companies are becoming more accepting as time goes by, but it is still hard for them to justify something that there isn't someone out there they can sue if something blows up. Struts seems to be one of the exceptions here. Ugh, mailing list, meet tangent :) -- Frank W. Zammetti Founder and Chief Software Architect Omnytex Technologies http://www.omnytex.com On Apr 10, 2005 6:55 AM, Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > *snip* > >> What do you say? Are we a product or a community? >> >> Here's my +1 for community. >> >> -Ted. > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: jsf] RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
Hi Is there any other "real" list than MyFaces :) Hermod -Original Message- From: Jesse Alexander (KBSA 21) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:48 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [OT: jsf] RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community which JSF list? the myfaces-list or another one? (I follow myfaces, because sun offers only a rather unfriendly forum...) Alexander (promoting Struts until I got JSF ready for our people ;-) ) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:20 PM To: user@struts.apache.org Subject: RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community Hi Nag Nag - Have you followed the JSF list lately ? Hermod (A great fan of Struts - and lately also JSF/Shale) -Original Message- From: Jesse Alexander (KBSA 21) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:02 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community First of all: Happy Birthday Ted (maybe a bit late, but I read the Struts mailinglist only in the office because of its hig volume) Is Struts a product? - If products means that it is marketed: I do not have the feeling - If product means something like MS Office: thank god it is not... -> rather not Is Struts a community? - a community should mean people helping people - in a technical problem: Struts (and this mailing list): definitely true - getting a good start in the weekend: Struts definitely is that (all thos wonderfull OT - friday - beer threads. They get you in a good cheerfull mood ;-) - in defficult times (eg. job-loss): the growing list of Struts-jobs means: definitely true - A community keeps you hooked on to it, even if some reasons why you joined it, are not true anymore: definitely true (I work now on establishing a JSF-infrastructure for our company, but I CANNOT unsubscribe this mailing list: too many usefull bits of info and I would miss this example of a good "company") For me this means +indefinitely (>1) Struts is a community!!! regards Alexander PS: I WISH something similar could happen to JSF ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email with attachments is solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Please also be aware that the DnB NOR Group cannot accept any payment orders or other legally binding correspondence with customers as a part of an email. This email message has been virus checked by the virus programs used in the DnB NOR Group. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
How's about calling us a "prommunity" where the product is the community (in part)? Christopher Marsh-Bourdon www.marsh-bourdon.com -Original Message- From: Simon Chappell [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 11 April 2005 14:18 To: Struts Users Mailing List; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community Ted, I say it's both. The software that we download is a product, but the mailing list and the friends that we have made through it is a community. Simon On Apr 10, 2005 6:55 AM, Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: *snip* > What do you say? Are we a product or a community? > > Here's my +1 for community. > > -Ted. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] The information contained herein is confidential and is intended solely for the addressee. Access by any other party is unauthorised without the express written permission of the sender. If you are not the intended recipient, please contact the sender either via the company switchboard on +44 (0)20 7623 8000, or via e-mail return. If you have received this e-mail in error or wish to read our e-mail disclaimer statement and monitoring policy, please refer to http://www.drkw.com/disc/email/ or contact the sender. 3167 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
Ted, I say it's both. The software that we download is a product, but the mailing list and the friends that we have made through it is a community. Simon On Apr 10, 2005 6:55 AM, Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: *snip* > What do you say? Are we a product or a community? > > Here's my +1 for community. > > -Ted. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[OT: jsf] RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
which JSF list? the myfaces-list or another one? (I follow myfaces, because sun offers only a rather unfriendly forum...) Alexander (promoting Struts until I got JSF ready for our people ;-) ) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 2:20 PM To: user@struts.apache.org Subject: RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community Hi Nag Nag - Have you followed the JSF list lately ? Hermod (A great fan of Struts - and lately also JSF/Shale) -Original Message- From: Jesse Alexander (KBSA 21) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:02 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community First of all: Happy Birthday Ted (maybe a bit late, but I read the Struts mailinglist only in the office because of its hig volume) Is Struts a product? - If products means that it is marketed: I do not have the feeling - If product means something like MS Office: thank god it is not... -> rather not Is Struts a community? - a community should mean people helping people - in a technical problem: Struts (and this mailing list): definitely true - getting a good start in the weekend: Struts definitely is that (all thos wonderfull OT - friday - beer threads. They get you in a good cheerfull mood ;-) - in defficult times (eg. job-loss): the growing list of Struts-jobs means: definitely true - A community keeps you hooked on to it, even if some reasons why you joined it, are not true anymore: definitely true (I work now on establishing a JSF-infrastructure for our company, but I CANNOT unsubscribe this mailing list: too many usefull bits of info and I would miss this example of a good "company") For me this means +indefinitely (>1) Struts is a community!!! regards Alexander PS: I WISH something similar could happen to JSF ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email with attachments is solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Please also be aware that the DnB NOR Group cannot accept any payment orders or other legally binding correspondence with customers as a part of an email. This email message has been virus checked by the virus programs used in the DnB NOR Group. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
Hi Nag Nag - Have you followed the JSF list lately ? Hermod (A great fan of Struts - and lately also JSF/Shale) -Original Message- From: Jesse Alexander (KBSA 21) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 11:02 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community First of all: Happy Birthday Ted (maybe a bit late, but I read the Struts mailinglist only in the office because of its hig volume) Is Struts a product? - If products means that it is marketed: I do not have the feeling - If product means something like MS Office: thank god it is not... -> rather not Is Struts a community? - a community should mean people helping people - in a technical problem: Struts (and this mailing list): definitely true - getting a good start in the weekend: Struts definitely is that (all thos wonderfull OT - friday - beer threads. They get you in a good cheerfull mood ;-) - in defficult times (eg. job-loss): the growing list of Struts-jobs means: definitely true - A community keeps you hooked on to it, even if some reasons why you joined it, are not true anymore: definitely true (I work now on establishing a JSF-infrastructure for our company, but I CANNOT unsubscribe this mailing list: too many usefull bits of info and I would miss this example of a good "company") For me this means +indefinitely (>1) Struts is a community!!! regards Alexander PS: I WISH something similar could happen to JSF ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email with attachments is solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom it is addressed. Please also be aware that the DnB NOR Group cannot accept any payment orders or other legally binding correspondence with customers as a part of an email. This email message has been virus checked by the virus programs used in the DnB NOR Group. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
First of all: Happy Birthday Ted (maybe a bit late, but I read the Struts mailinglist only in the office because of its hig volume) Is Struts a product? - If products means that it is marketed: I do not have the feeling - If product means something like MS Office: thank god it is not... -> rather not Is Struts a community? - a community should mean people helping people - in a technical problem: Struts (and this mailing list): definitely true - getting a good start in the weekend: Struts definitely is that (all thos wonderfull OT - friday - beer threads. They get you in a good cheerfull mood ;-) - in defficult times (eg. job-loss): the growing list of Struts-jobs means: definitely true - A community keeps you hooked on to it, even if some reasons why you joined it, are not true anymore: definitely true (I work now on establishing a JSF-infrastructure for our company, but I CANNOT unsubscribe this mailing list: too many usefull bits of info and I would miss this example of a good "company") For me this means +indefinitely (>1) Struts is a community!!! regards Alexander PS: I WISH something similar could happen to JSF ;-) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
Ted Husted wrote: What do you say? Are we a product or a community? Here's my +1 for community. -Ted. I have been talking about JDNC and Flash so loonnggg. +1 for community. .V - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
I would say Struts is both a product and a community. And in my opion this is the great thing about Struts. Struts is a product because many individuals as well as compagnies build commercial web applications based on Struts. By searching one job-index here in Denmark I find several job-announcements which asks for Struts skills. These compagnies are not only start-up firms, but also firms like big insurance compagnies. So Struts is an important ram for open source in a commercial context. At the same time we are developer community by helping each other to get the best out of Struts and improving the product even more. Struts would be notthing without a community, but a developement community without a product would also be empty. So my +2 is keep up the good work for the produkt and the community. Regards Flemming On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:55:51 -0400, Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As of about 2a EST this morning, 134,788 messages were posted to this list. Even for five years, that's a lot of traffic! Most of those messages have been about users helping other users. Some others, often marked "Friday" or "Beer" have been about users entertaining users. :) And, occasionally, we have waxed introspective and discussed "What is Struts anyway?". Some people have said that Struts is a brand that marks a product. Our benefactor, the Apache Software Foundation, calls Struts a "Project". Project is a good word, but it's really a euphemism: Project is an ASF code word that means "Community". From an ASF perspective, we're not here to build software, but to build a development community, and let the community build the software. We believe that great communities build great technology. Over the years, the Struts community *has* built some great technology. Aside from the Struts Action package, we've built Tiles and the Validator. We've built Bean-Utils and the Digester. And Collections, and File Upload, and Resources. And Chain. A good portion of all the components in the Jakarta Commons today is technology that Struts built. The technologies that Struts built are not just gizmos we use with our own controller or taglib components. Dozens of other software projects, and thousands of teams, use these technologies every day, whether they use our application framework or not. IMHO, this is what it means to be a community rather than a product, a people rather than a brand. It means that first we try to help each other, and then we try to package our solution to share with all comers. But, the map is not the land, and the solution is not the project. Since today is my birthday, I thought I'd take the liberty of calling for a referendum on a topic that is close to my heart: What do you say? Are we a product or a community? Here's my +1 for community. -Ted. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
Ted Husted wrote: As of about 2a EST this morning, 134,788 messages were posted to this list. Even for five years, that's a lot of traffic! Most of those messages have been about users helping other users. Some others, often marked "Friday" or "Beer" have been about users entertaining users. :) And, occasionally, we have waxed introspective and discussed "What is Struts anyway?". Some people have said that Struts is a brand that marks a product. Our benefactor, the Apache Software Foundation, calls Struts a "Project". Project is a good word, but it's really a euphemism: Project is an ASF code word that means "Community". From an ASF perspective, we're not here to build software, but to build a development community, and let the community build the software. We believe that great communities build great technology. Over the years, the Struts community *has* built some great technology. Aside from the Struts Action package, we've built Tiles and the Validator. We've built Bean-Utils and the Digester. And Collections, and File Upload, and Resources. And Chain. A good portion of all the components in the Jakarta Commons today is technology that Struts built. The technologies that Struts built are not just gizmos we use with our own controller or taglib components. Dozens of other software projects, and thousands of teams, use these technologies every day, whether they use our application framework or not. IMHO, this is what it means to be a community rather than a product, a people rather than a brand. It means that first we try to help each other, and then we try to package our solution to share with all comers. But, the map is not the land, and the solution is not the project. Since today is my birthday, I thought I'd take the liberty of calling for a referendum on a topic that is close to my heart: What do you say? Are we a product or a community? Here's my +1 for community. -Ted. A community with common interest in good software technologies is why i am here. Happy Birthday :-) BaTien DBGROUPS - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
I would say we are both a product and a community. And in my opion this is a very good thing. Struts is a product because many compagnies build commercial web applications based on Struts. By searching one job-index here in Denmark I find several job-announcements which asks for Struts skills. These compagnies are not only start-up firms, but also firms like big insurance compagnies. So Struts is an important ram for open source in a commercial context. At the same time we are developer community by helping each other to get the best out of Struts and improving the product even more. Struts would be notthing without a community, but a developement community without a product would also be empty. So my +1 is keep up the good work for the produkt and the community. Regards Flemming On Sun, 10 Apr 2005 07:55:51 -0400, Ted Husted <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: As of about 2a EST this morning, 134,788 messages were posted to this list. Even for five years, that's a lot of traffic! Most of those messages have been about users helping other users. Some others, often marked "Friday" or "Beer" have been about users entertaining users. :) And, occasionally, we have waxed introspective and discussed "What is Struts anyway?". Some people have said that Struts is a brand that marks a product. Our benefactor, the Apache Software Foundation, calls Struts a "Project". Project is a good word, but it's really a euphemism: Project is an ASF code word that means "Community". From an ASF perspective, we're not here to build software, but to build a development community, and let the community build the software. We believe that great communities build great technology. Over the years, the Struts community *has* built some great technology. Aside from the Struts Action package, we've built Tiles and the Validator. We've built Bean-Utils and the Digester. And Collections, and File Upload, and Resources. And Chain. A good portion of all the components in the Jakarta Commons today is technology that Struts built. The technologies that Struts built are not just gizmos we use with our own controller or taglib components. Dozens of other software projects, and thousands of teams, use these technologies every day, whether they use our application framework or not. IMHO, this is what it means to be a community rather than a product, a people rather than a brand. It means that first we try to help each other, and then we try to package our solution to share with all comers. But, the map is not the land, and the solution is not the project. Since today is my birthday, I thought I'd take the liberty of calling for a referendum on a topic that is close to my heart: What do you say? Are we a product or a community? Here's my +1 for community. -Ted. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Using M2, Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/m2/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
Happy Birthday Ted many happy returns. IMHO Struts is still a product, BUT with the added benefit that is supported by a community of beginners experts and the like. I constantly delve into technologies and being a Jack of many but master of none I constantly find myself thinking 'I wish product x had a single community like Struts', Microsoft Office products being one. +1 for Product (With an excellent support network). -Original Message- From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 10 April 2005 12:56 To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community As of about 2a EST this morning, 134,788 messages were posted to this list. Even for five years, that's a lot of traffic! Most of those messages have been about users helping other users. Some others, often marked "Friday" or "Beer" have been about users entertaining users. :) And, occasionally, we have waxed introspective and discussed "What is Struts anyway?". Some people have said that Struts is a brand that marks a product. Our benefactor, the Apache Software Foundation, calls Struts a "Project". Project is a good word, but it's really a euphemism: Project is an ASF code word that means "Community". From an ASF perspective, we're not here to build software, but to build a development community, and let the community build the software. We believe that great communities build great technology. Over the years, the Struts community *has* built some great technology. Aside from the Struts Action package, we've built Tiles and the Validator. We've built Bean-Utils and the Digester. And Collections, and File Upload, and Resources. And Chain. A good portion of all the components in the Jakarta Commons today is technology that Struts built. The technologies that Struts built are not just gizmos we use with our own controller or taglib components. Dozens of other software projects, and thousands of teams, use these technologies every day, whether they use our application framework or not. IMHO, this is what it means to be a community rather than a product, a people rather than a brand. It means that first we try to help each other, and then we try to package our solution to share with all comers. But, the map is not the land, and the solution is not the project. Since today is my birthday, I thought I'd take the liberty of calling for a referendum on a topic that is close to my heart: What do you say? Are we a product or a community? Here's my +1 for community. -Ted. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[REFERENDUM] Struts is a Community
As of about 2a EST this morning, 134,788 messages were posted to this list. Even for five years, that's a lot of traffic! Most of those messages have been about users helping other users. Some others, often marked "Friday" or "Beer" have been about users entertaining users. :) And, occasionally, we have waxed introspective and discussed "What is Struts anyway?". Some people have said that Struts is a brand that marks a product. Our benefactor, the Apache Software Foundation, calls Struts a "Project". Project is a good word, but it's really a euphemism: Project is an ASF code word that means "Community". From an ASF perspective, we're not here to build software, but to build a development community, and let the community build the software. We believe that great communities build great technology. Over the years, the Struts community *has* built some great technology. Aside from the Struts Action package, we've built Tiles and the Validator. We've built Bean-Utils and the Digester. And Collections, and File Upload, and Resources. And Chain. A good portion of all the components in the Jakarta Commons today is technology that Struts built. The technologies that Struts built are not just gizmos we use with our own controller or taglib components. Dozens of other software projects, and thousands of teams, use these technologies every day, whether they use our application framework or not. IMHO, this is what it means to be a community rather than a product, a people rather than a brand. It means that first we try to help each other, and then we try to package our solution to share with all comers. But, the map is not the land, and the solution is not the project. Since today is my birthday, I thought I'd take the liberty of calling for a referendum on a topic that is close to my heart: What do you say? Are we a product or a community? Here's my +1 for community. -Ted. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
