RE: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
Probably not! Leaving UBS unsubscribing myself ;-( -- Peter Pilgrim UBS Investment Bank, Client Portal Dev LDN, Triton Court, 14 Finsbury Square, London, EC2A 1PD United Kingdom ( +44 (0)207 56 75692 ) :: Java EE Spring 2.0 Hibernate 3.2 Development :: Visit our website at http://www.ubs.com This message contains confidential information and is intended only for the individual named. If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately by e-mail if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail from your system. E-mails are not encrypted and cannot be guaranteed to be secure or error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not accept liability for any errors or omissions in the contents of this message which arise as a result of e-mail transmission. If verification is required please request a hard-copy version. This message is provided for informational purposes and should not be construed as a solicitation or offer to buy or sell any securities or related financial instruments. UBS Limited is a company registered in England Wales under company number 2035362, whose registered office is at 1 Finsbury Avenue, London, EC2M 2PP, United Kingdom. UBS AG (London Branch) is registered as a branch of a foreign company under number BR004507, whose registered office is at 1 Finsbury Avenue, London, EC2M 2PP, United Kingdom. UBS Clearing and Execution Services Limited is a company registered in England Wales under company number 03123037, whose registered office is at 1 Finsbury Avenue, London, EC2M 2PP, United Kingdom. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
I have to agree. Having a separate Struts 2 list would be nice, but let's face it... - Struts 1 owned the web presentation space, making the move from 1.x to 1.y brainless. - But since Struts 2 is a complete rewrite and JSF is competing strongly for the same space (with much help from the tool vendors), the choice to go to from Struts 1 to 2 is not easy for today's developers. Struts 2 - regardless of how much better it is - needs all the help it can get to establish itself in the minds of developers. The price we pay by slogging through 100 emails per day in a single list is small if it helps Struts 2 win the battle. Bruno -Original Message- From: Frank W. Zammetti [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2007 7:59 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list? I think the thought behind not splitting the lists to this point is that Apache experience has been that it tends to divide a community rather than direct traffic in a more granular way. The idea is that a Struts user is a Struts user regardless of version, and those that may not be using S2 today (yours truly included for the most part) may well be using it tomorrow... a person can get a leg-up just by keeping an eye on the S2 posts (I know that's true for me). One could always subscribe to multiple lists of course, but in terms of community, a single united list theoretically at least yields more synergy. This is my interpretation of things I've seen stated in the past (I happen to agree with it too :) ). Maybe the thinking is different now by those who are in a position to change things, I don't know. As for a forum, I seem to remember Apache infrastructure not supporting it, and I also seem to remember something about Apache projects not (directly at least) using outside resources... others more knowledgeable than I would have to answer this though... I can't off the top of my head think of any other Apache project that has a forum that is officially linked to the project. As a personal opinion, I'm not sure I see the benefit of a forum vs. a mailing list, they seem pretty well even to me, maybe a slight edge to the mailing list since it goes to my mail client... I could see a good argument though for a forum that supplies an RSS feed too. Frank Antony Stubbs wrote: Well it might have made sense if struts 2 issues were somehow applicable to struts 1, but they're mostly not. For Struts 2 to be adopted, it needs to be clearly separated from struts 1, as is the code base. This includes having clearly separate support to make it as easy as possible to find help. It's not like it's we want a struts 1.5 list. 2 is very different from 1. What's the mentality for keeping them jumbled together? I suppose you don't see a separate mailing list for every major tapestry release, but this is a case of adopting the best process that fit's the situation, and in this situation the lists should be seperate IMO. Dave Newton-4 wrote: --- Antony Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This list seems to be quite busy, and I think everyone would benefit hugely from separating out the two frameworks for obvious reasons. Actually I'm surprised this hasn't been done already. It's been brought up (even by me) in the past; I still agree and would vote for separation if it was votable. d. _ ___ Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Frank W. Zammetti Founder and Chief Software Architect Omnytex Technologies http://www.omnytex.com AIM/Yahoo: fzammetti MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Author of Practical Ajax Projects With Java Technology (2006, Apress, ISBN 1-59059-695-1) Java Web Parts - http://javawebparts.sourceforge.net Supplying the wheel, so you don't have to reinvent it! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
Just FYI, Nabble does provide RSS feeds on a per-list/forum level. I Live-bookmark http://www.nabble.com/Struts---User-f206.html Frank W. Zammetti wrote: I think the thought behind not splitting the lists to this point is that Apache experience has been that it tends to divide a community rather than direct traffic in a more granular way. The idea is that a Struts user is a Struts user regardless of version, and those that may not be using S2 today (yours truly included for the most part) may well be using it tomorrow... a person can get a leg-up just by keeping an eye on the S2 posts (I know that's true for me). One could always subscribe to multiple lists of course, but in terms of community, a single united list theoretically at least yields more synergy. This is my interpretation of things I've seen stated in the past (I happen to agree with it too :) ). Maybe the thinking is different now by those who are in a position to change things, I don't know. As for a forum, I seem to remember Apache infrastructure not supporting it, and I also seem to remember something about Apache projects not (directly at least) using outside resources... others more knowledgeable than I would have to answer this though... I can't off the top of my head think of any other Apache project that has a forum that is officially linked to the project. As a personal opinion, I'm not sure I see the benefit of a forum vs. a mailing list, they seem pretty well even to me, maybe a slight edge to the mailing list since it goes to my mail client... I could see a good argument though for a forum that supplies an RSS feed too. Frank Antony Stubbs wrote: Well it might have made sense if struts 2 issues were somehow applicable to struts 1, but they're mostly not. For Struts 2 to be adopted, it needs to be clearly separated from struts 1, as is the code base. This includes having clearly separate support to make it as easy as possible to find help. It's not like it's we want a struts 1.5 list. 2 is very different from 1. What's the mentality for keeping them jumbled together? I suppose you don't see a separate mailing list for every major tapestry release, but this is a case of adopting the best process that fit's the situation, and in this situation the lists should be seperate IMO. Dave Newton-4 wrote: --- Antony Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This list seems to be quite busy, and I think everyone would benefit hugely from separating out the two frameworks for obvious reasons. Actually I'm surprised this hasn't been done already. It's been brought up (even by me) in the past; I still agree and would vote for separation if it was votable. d. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Frank W. Zammetti Founder and Chief Software Architect Omnytex Technologies http://www.omnytex.com AIM/Yahoo: fzammetti MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Author of Practical Ajax Projects With Java Technology (2006, Apress, ISBN 1-59059-695-1) Java Web Parts - http://javawebparts.sourceforge.net Supplying the wheel, so you don't have to reinvent it! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Can-we-*please*-havea-seperate-Struts-*2*---User-list--tf3556523.html#a9941601 Sent from the Struts - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
--- Antony Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This list seems to be quite busy, and I think everyone would benefit hugely from separating out the two frameworks for obvious reasons. Actually I'm surprised this hasn't been done already. It's been brought up (even by me) in the past; I still agree and would vote for separation if it was votable. d. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
Wouldn't a forum be more appropriate for this kind of exchange? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
Well it might have made sense if struts 2 issues were somehow applicable to struts 1, but they're mostly not. For Struts 2 to be adopted, it needs to be clearly separated from struts 1, as is the code base. This includes having clearly separate support to make it as easy as possible to find help. It's not like it's we want a struts 1.5 list. 2 is very different from 1. What's the mentality for keeping them jumbled together? I suppose you don't see a separate mailing list for every major tapestry release, but this is a case of adopting the best process that fit's the situation, and in this situation the lists should be seperate IMO. Dave Newton-4 wrote: --- Antony Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This list seems to be quite busy, and I think everyone would benefit hugely from separating out the two frameworks for obvious reasons. Actually I'm surprised this hasn't been done already. It's been brought up (even by me) in the past; I still agree and would vote for separation if it was votable. d. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Can-we-*please*-havea-seperate-Struts-*2*---User-list--tf3556523.html#a9930881 Sent from the Struts - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
I completely agree. In fact, I quite like the forum the Spring guys use. (esp with the question / answered functionality). I imagine a lot of people (as i do) treat this list as a forum, esp through archives like Nabble.com which I use. Asaf Paris Mandoki wrote: Wouldn't a forum be more appropriate for this kind of exchange? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Can-we-*please*-havea-seperate-Struts-*2*---User-list--tf3556523.html#a9930890 Sent from the Struts - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
The webwork forum at www.opensymphony.com looks pretty good. Now that webwork and struts 2 are almost the same thing, couldn't a special forum for struts 2 be created over there? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
+1 for using a forum. It saves having to archive the whole list locally to keep track of threads. This is particularly relevant with S2 where we're trying to keep track of latest issues and common pitfalls. Z. I completely agree. In fact, I quite like the forum the Spring guys use. (esp with the question / answered functionality). I imagine a lot of people (as i do) treat this list as a forum, esp through archives like Nabble.com which I use. Asaf Paris Mandoki wrote: Wouldn't a forum be more appropriate for this kind of exchange? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
Seriously, have you tried http://www.nabble.com/forum/ViewPost.jtp?post=9930952framed=y ??? Zoran Avtarovski wrote: +1 for using a forum. It saves having to archive the whole list locally to keep track of threads. This is particularly relevant with S2 where we're trying to keep track of latest issues and common pitfalls. Z. I completely agree. In fact, I quite like the forum the Spring guys use. (esp with the question / answered functionality). I imagine a lot of people (as i do) treat this list as a forum, esp through archives like Nabble.com which I use. Asaf Paris Mandoki wrote: Wouldn't a forum be more appropriate for this kind of exchange? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Can-we-*please*-havea-seperate-Struts-*2*---User-list--tf3556523.html#a9930968 Sent from the Struts - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
On Wednesday 11 April 2007 01:49:01 Asaf Paris Mandoki wrote: Wouldn't a forum be more appropriate for this kind of exchange? I am not sure. Personally I do prefer mailing lists. They save a lot of time, especially if you are subscribed to a lot of lists. Navigating to different forums is not what I would like to do every day. Just checking my inbox is much better :-) But I know that a lot of users like web forums more than mailing lists. There was a discussion at the developer list about communicating a forum some time ago, but without result. You can always use nabble as a forum interface to this list, its pretty good: http://www.nabble.com/Struts---User-f206.html Piero - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
How could we get a forum? Is there a way to get a place at opensymphony's forum dedicated to struts users? What other alternatives are there? How difficult would it be to get a forum at struts.apache.org ? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
I don't think apache.org run forums, only moderate mailing lists. I think they advocate using http://www.nabble.com/. I think for a start, simply a separate list for Struts 2 would be a massive help. Asaf Paris Mandoki wrote: How could we get a forum? Is there a way to get a place at opensymphony's forum dedicated to struts users? What other alternatives are there? How difficult would it be to get a forum at struts.apache.org ? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- View this message in context: http://www.nabble.com/Can-we-*please*-havea-seperate-Struts-*2*---User-list--tf3556523.html#a9931142 Sent from the Struts - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
I think the thought behind not splitting the lists to this point is that Apache experience has been that it tends to divide a community rather than direct traffic in a more granular way. The idea is that a Struts user is a Struts user regardless of version, and those that may not be using S2 today (yours truly included for the most part) may well be using it tomorrow... a person can get a leg-up just by keeping an eye on the S2 posts (I know that's true for me). One could always subscribe to multiple lists of course, but in terms of community, a single united list theoretically at least yields more synergy. This is my interpretation of things I've seen stated in the past (I happen to agree with it too :) ). Maybe the thinking is different now by those who are in a position to change things, I don't know. As for a forum, I seem to remember Apache infrastructure not supporting it, and I also seem to remember something about Apache projects not (directly at least) using outside resources... others more knowledgeable than I would have to answer this though... I can't off the top of my head think of any other Apache project that has a forum that is officially linked to the project. As a personal opinion, I'm not sure I see the benefit of a forum vs. a mailing list, they seem pretty well even to me, maybe a slight edge to the mailing list since it goes to my mail client... I could see a good argument though for a forum that supplies an RSS feed too. Frank Antony Stubbs wrote: Well it might have made sense if struts 2 issues were somehow applicable to struts 1, but they're mostly not. For Struts 2 to be adopted, it needs to be clearly separated from struts 1, as is the code base. This includes having clearly separate support to make it as easy as possible to find help. It's not like it's we want a struts 1.5 list. 2 is very different from 1. What's the mentality for keeping them jumbled together? I suppose you don't see a separate mailing list for every major tapestry release, but this is a case of adopting the best process that fit's the situation, and in this situation the lists should be seperate IMO. Dave Newton-4 wrote: --- Antony Stubbs [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This list seems to be quite busy, and I think everyone would benefit hugely from separating out the two frameworks for obvious reasons. Actually I'm surprised this hasn't been done already. It's been brought up (even by me) in the past; I still agree and would vote for separation if it was votable. d. Finding fabulous fares is fun. Let Yahoo! FareChase search your favorite travel sites to find flight and hotel bargains. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Frank W. Zammetti Founder and Chief Software Architect Omnytex Technologies http://www.omnytex.com AIM/Yahoo: fzammetti MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Author of Practical Ajax Projects With Java Technology (2006, Apress, ISBN 1-59059-695-1) Java Web Parts - http://javawebparts.sourceforge.net Supplying the wheel, so you don't have to reinvent it! - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
While I understand that people want a separate mailing list, and at times I believed the same thing, the fact is that most questions to this list will be about 2.x. The reason is because, imo, 1.x has been out for 7 years and virtually every possible question and answer has been given -- there's simply not much of a need to ask if you can already find your answer through an Internet search (like Google or Nabble). With that said, I also agree with Frank's point that separate mailing lists also tend to divide the community. Believe it or not, there's also one mailing list for Struts committers too -- so the Apache folks who write Struts also get to see all the activity from 1.x and 2.x. That's a good idea because we're one (read: ONE) community. Just as Apache doesn't have a Tomcat 4 mailing list, a Tomcat 5, Tomcat 6, etc, neither should we have here. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Can we *please* havea seperate Struts *2* - User list?
I have to agree with Frank and Paul. The list has been the best source of current information on S2. We're using the WebWork in Action Book and other resources but by far this mailing list has been the most valuable resource. Z. While I understand that people want a separate mailing list, and at times I believed the same thing, the fact is that most questions to this list will be about 2.x. The reason is because, imo, 1.x has been out for 7 years and virtually every possible question and answer has been given -- there's simply not much of a need to ask if you can already find your answer through an Internet search (like Google or Nabble). With that said, I also agree with Frank's point that separate mailing lists also tend to divide the community. Believe it or not, there's also one mailing list for Struts committers too -- so the Apache folks who write Struts also get to see all the activity from 1.x and 2.x. That's a good idea because we're one (read: ONE) community. Just as Apache doesn't have a Tomcat 4 mailing list, a Tomcat 5, Tomcat 6, etc, neither should we have here. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
