Re: With a new project, what technologies should I use?
Vu, Thai wrote: Hello everybody, Could you give me some advices? [...] I heard that Spring helps us write less code (by declaring beans with their own names in xml files, whenever we need a bean, just call that name) and helps us in transactions (I don't know exactly if we use Spring for transaction management what we can get. Could someone write a few words here?) That's a topic for the Spring lists, but briefly: spring allows you to configure transactional behaviour declarative and will automatically manage transactions for you -- meaning it'll transparently start/commit/rollback transactions as needed, regardless of what underlying database access and transaction APIs you're using. I heard that JSF is best used for the view tier in the MVC model (I've just read an article by Craig McClanahan named `The Best of Both Worlds: Integrating JSF with Struts in Your J2EE Applications on Oracle website, but it seems to me that that article applies to existing Struts applications, not new ones). And if I should use JSF, which JSF implementation should I use? Sun Reference Implementation or MyFaces or Oracle ADF? I also heard that ADF provides the most components among those 3 and it's just gone open-source (i.e. we can use it for free). Or Oracle's ADF Faces is a component libarary, not a JavaServer Faces implementation. It can be used with either the JSF RI or MyFaces, but does not replace either. It *is* a very nice set of components, though, and is now open source. Shale (as far as I know, it is a mixture of Struts and JSF. Am I right?)? No, Shale is an application framework which extends JSF. It is entirely separate from Struts Action (the new name for the framework previously known as just 'Struts'). The two frameworks are both developed within the Apache Struts project, and share a community. Otherwise, they are distinct. HTH, L. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: With a new project, what technologies should I use?
I'd use JSF/Shale/JBoss/Hibernate/MySQL. I've never used Spring or Shale (Although I think it'd be worthwhile after reading about Shale) so I'll let others voice on that one. I've only used the MyFaces implementation and didn't have any problems on JBoss. I've been using struts for 3 years now and I'm using it in a new project I'm starting soon. We were limited by our J2EE web server (JRun) or else I would have gone with the above recommendation. But I have seen no reason why you couldn't still use struts. I think it depends on what the requirements are for your web application. Some architectures are better suited for different requirements. Shawn -Original Message- From: Vu, Thai [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 10:57 AM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: With a new project, what technologies should I use? Hello everybody, Could you give me some advices? Assume that I know how to use Struts, Hibernate, iBATIS and know nothing about Spring, JSF (but willing to learn :) ). Now what should I use if I have to write a new web application? And correct me if I'm wrong anywhere please. I heard that Spring helps us write less code (by declaring beans with their own names in xml files, whenever we need a bean, just call that name) and helps us in transactions (I don't know exactly if we use Spring for transaction management what we can get. Could someone write a few words here?) I heard that JSF is best used for the view tier in the MVC model (I've just read an article by Craig McClanahan named `The Best of Both Worlds: Integrating JSF with Struts in Your J2EE Applications on Oracle website, but it seems to me that that article applies to existing Struts applications, not new ones). And if I should use JSF, which JSF implementation should I use? Sun Reference Implementation or MyFaces or Oracle ADF? I also heard that ADF provides the most components among those 3 and it's just gone open-source (i.e. we can use it for free). Or Shale (as far as I know, it is a mixture of Struts and JSF. Am I right?)? Awaiting for your advices. Sincerely. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This email may contain confidential material. If you were not an intended recipient, Please notify the sender and delete all copies. We may monitor email to and from our network. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: With a new project, what technologies should I use?
The answer is it depends. I love playing with new stuff, but when my back's against the wall (corporate deadlines, gotta love 'em) I stick with the tried and tested. I'm leading a small project right now that we started in December and we're using Struts. There are a number of reasons for this: 1. It works. 2. We know it. 3. There are plenty of books available. 4. The programmers that will come after us will either know it or be easily able to learn it. (hence concern about book availability) 5. It already has corporate approval. 6. We can use already completed projects as sources (no pun intended) of example code. This is not a slam on any other framework. But, if I have not used them, then I'm not betting my career on them. Struts *will* get the job done. The other frameworks might be bigger, better, faster, more buzzword complient *and* make a cup of tea for me in the morning, but that doesn't mean that Struts doesn't work. I will learn JSF and Shale as time permits, but until then Struts rocks my world! :-) On 2/10/06, Vu, Thai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello everybody, Could you give me some advices? Assume that I know how to use Struts, Hibernate, iBATIS and know nothing about Spring, JSF (but willing to learn :) ). Now what should I use if I have to write a new web application? And correct me if I'm wrong anywhere please. I heard that Spring helps us write less code (by declaring beans with their own names in xml files, whenever we need a bean, just call that name) and helps us in transactions (I don't know exactly if we use Spring for transaction management what we can get. Could someone write a few words here?) I heard that JSF is best used for the view tier in the MVC model (I've just read an article by Craig McClanahan named `The Best of Both Worlds: Integrating JSF with Struts in Your J2EE Applications on Oracle website, but it seems to me that that article applies to existing Struts applications, not new ones). And if I should use JSF, which JSF implementation should I use? Sun Reference Implementation or MyFaces or Oracle ADF? I also heard that ADF provides the most components among those 3 and it's just gone open-source (i.e. we can use it for free). Or Shale (as far as I know, it is a mixture of Struts and JSF. Am I right?)? Awaiting for your advices. Sincerely. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- www.simonpeter.org uab.blogspot.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: With a new project, what technologies should I use?
I have to agree w/ Simon on this: it really does depend on the
project, but tried and true is key - use what you know you can succeed
with. Don't experiment with real projects.
Learning new stuff is great, but getting paid is great, too. :)
I started a project in December, and went with:
- JDK5 because generics rock
- Spring because IoC makes testing painless
- iBATIS because HQL sucks, and every coder worth *paying* knows SQL
- Struts because I can find people to work on it easily
- Tomcat5.5 because i like my ${el}
For the dev side, I am using:
- JUnit
- Emma
- StrutsTestCase
- DbUnit
With this stack, you can very quickly build apps that perform like
Java should, and are 100% unit tested.
Larry
On 2/10/06, Simon Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The answer is it depends.
I love playing with new stuff, but when my back's against the wall
(corporate deadlines, gotta love 'em) I stick with the tried and
tested. I'm leading a small project right now that we started in
December and we're using Struts. There are a number of reasons for
this:
1. It works.
2. We know it.
3. There are plenty of books available.
4. The programmers that will come after us will either know it or be
easily able to learn it. (hence concern about book availability)
5. It already has corporate approval.
6. We can use already completed projects as sources (no pun intended)
of example code.
This is not a slam on any other framework. But, if I have not used
them, then I'm not betting my career on them. Struts *will* get the
job done. The other frameworks might be bigger, better, faster, more
buzzword complient *and* make a cup of tea for me in the morning, but
that doesn't mean that Struts doesn't work.
I will learn JSF and Shale as time permits, but until then Struts
rocks my world! :-)
On 2/10/06, Vu, Thai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello everybody,
Could you give me some advices?
Assume that I know how to use Struts, Hibernate, iBATIS and know nothing
about Spring, JSF (but willing to learn :) ). Now what should I use if I
have to write a new web application? And correct me if I'm wrong
anywhere please.
I heard that Spring helps us write less code (by declaring beans with
their own names in xml files, whenever we need a bean, just call that
name) and helps us in transactions (I don't know exactly if we use
Spring for transaction management what we can get. Could someone write a
few words here?)
I heard that JSF is best used for the view tier in the MVC model (I've
just read an article by Craig McClanahan named `The Best of Both Worlds:
Integrating JSF with Struts in Your J2EE Applications on Oracle website,
but it seems to me that that article applies to existing Struts
applications, not new ones). And if I should use JSF, which JSF
implementation should I use? Sun Reference Implementation or MyFaces or
Oracle ADF? I also heard that ADF provides the most components among
those 3 and it's just gone open-source (i.e. we can use it for free). Or
Shale (as far as I know, it is a mixture of Struts and JSF. Am I
right?)?
Awaiting for your advices.
Sincerely.
-
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--
www.simonpeter.org
uab.blogspot.com
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RE: With a new project, what technologies should I use?
because HQL sucks - sounds very scientific
Could you explain that please?
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
Larry Meadors
Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 11:27 AM
To: Struts Users Mailing List
Subject: Re: With a new project, what technologies should I use?
I have to agree w/ Simon on this: it really does depend on the project, but
tried and true is key - use what you know you can succeed with. Don't
experiment with real projects.
Learning new stuff is great, but getting paid is great, too. :)
I started a project in December, and went with:
- JDK5 because generics rock
- Spring because IoC makes testing painless
- iBATIS because HQL sucks, and every coder worth *paying* knows SQL
- Struts because I can find people to work on it easily
- Tomcat5.5 because i like my ${el}
For the dev side, I am using:
- JUnit
- Emma
- StrutsTestCase
- DbUnit
With this stack, you can very quickly build apps that perform like Java
should, and are 100% unit tested.
Larry
On 2/10/06, Simon Chappell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
The answer is it depends.
I love playing with new stuff, but when my back's against the wall
(corporate deadlines, gotta love 'em) I stick with the tried and
tested. I'm leading a small project right now that we started in
December and we're using Struts. There are a number of reasons for
this:
1. It works.
2. We know it.
3. There are plenty of books available.
4. The programmers that will come after us will either know it or be
easily able to learn it. (hence concern about book availability) 5. It
already has corporate approval.
6. We can use already completed projects as sources (no pun intended)
of example code.
This is not a slam on any other framework. But, if I have not used
them, then I'm not betting my career on them. Struts *will* get the
job done. The other frameworks might be bigger, better, faster, more
buzzword complient *and* make a cup of tea for me in the morning, but
that doesn't mean that Struts doesn't work.
I will learn JSF and Shale as time permits, but until then Struts
rocks my world! :-)
On 2/10/06, Vu, Thai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hello everybody,
Could you give me some advices?
Assume that I know how to use Struts, Hibernate, iBATIS and know
nothing about Spring, JSF (but willing to learn :) ). Now what
should I use if I have to write a new web application? And correct
me if I'm wrong anywhere please.
I heard that Spring helps us write less code (by declaring beans
with their own names in xml files, whenever we need a bean, just
call that
name) and helps us in transactions (I don't know exactly if we use
Spring for transaction management what we can get. Could someone
write a few words here?)
I heard that JSF is best used for the view tier in the MVC model
(I've just read an article by Craig McClanahan named `The Best of Both
Worlds:
Integrating JSF with Struts in Your J2EE Applications on Oracle
website, but it seems to me that that article applies to existing
Struts applications, not new ones). And if I should use JSF, which
JSF implementation should I use? Sun Reference Implementation or
MyFaces or Oracle ADF? I also heard that ADF provides the most
components among those 3 and it's just gone open-source (i.e. we can
use it for free). Or Shale (as far as I know, it is a mixture of
Struts and JSF. Am I right?)?
Awaiting for your advices.
Sincerely.
- To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
--
www.simonpeter.org
uab.blogspot.com
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-
To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
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[OT] Re: With a new project, what technologies should I use?
Larry Meadors wrote: - iBATIS because HQL sucks, and every coder worth *paying* knows SQL I'd actually disagree with this... unless we're using different definition of knows. Many (most?) developers might have the basics of SQL down, but becoming an expert in SQL is the same as in any other language: it's non-trivial. Dave - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: With a new project, what technologies should I use?
On 2/10/06, Vu, Thai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . Now what should I use if I have to write a new web application? And correct me if I'm wrong anywhere please. It's a little bit like asking a building contractor: What materials should I use to build a new structure? Just to pose a few rhetoric questions: Are you a sole developer building a five page application next week, or leading a team of ten developers building a five hundred application over the next year or two? Is the primary purpose of the application database access or something else? How important is look and feel? Are the java developers doing the markup, or is there a second team of HTML designers? Are you expected to use prepared statements, code your own SQL, or have it generated? Will the site be static or have a number of dynamic elements? How soon before the site needs to be updated (if ever)? Are the requirement stable, or are the business people still figuring out what they want? Will the site need to maintained and extended as business needs change, or would you start from scratch with a new site? Now some vendors want you to believe that no matter how you answer any of these questions, and a hundred more, there is only one true answer: Whatever product they want to sell you! One size fits all is a myth. We don't have a unified theory of relativity, and we don't have a unified framework for web development at all scales. Some things work better for small applications (Quantum). Somethings work better for larger application (Relativity). There is a tipping point when you need to shift gears from quick-and-easy to extensible-and-robust. It's one thing to build a bike-shed; it's another to build a skyscraper. A professional chooses the right tool for the job. To a PHB, every application is a nail. My best advice is to pick the smallest possible part of your application and try that part with a couple of likely technologies. Then, choose the one that best suits the application, your team, and you. If it is not worth the trouble of doing even a small part more than once, then the job is probably a small enough job that you can snag Java Studio Enterprise and do it with JSF out of the box. * http://developers.sun.com/prodtech/javatools/jsenterprise/reference/techart/whatis.html HTH, Ted. http://husted.com/blog/ted/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: With a new project, what technologies should I use?
jokingly Wow Ted, that was just about the most cliche-ridden post I've seen in a while :) If that's what you were going for, mission accomplished! LOL /jokingly Of course, every single cliche you used is completely true and applicable here, so no one minds I'm sure :) -- Frank W. Zammetti Founder and Chief Software Architect Omnytex Technologies http://www.omnytex.com AIM: fzammetti Yahoo: fzammetti MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Fri, February 10, 2006 4:17 pm, Ted Husted said: On 2/10/06, Vu, Thai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . Now what should I use if I have to write a new web application? And correct me if I'm wrong anywhere please. It's a little bit like asking a building contractor: What materials should I use to build a new structure? Just to pose a few rhetoric questions: Are you a sole developer building a five page application next week, or leading a team of ten developers building a five hundred application over the next year or two? Is the primary purpose of the application database access or something else? How important is look and feel? Are the java developers doing the markup, or is there a second team of HTML designers? Are you expected to use prepared statements, code your own SQL, or have it generated? Will the site be static or have a number of dynamic elements? How soon before the site needs to be updated (if ever)? Are the requirement stable, or are the business people still figuring out what they want? Will the site need to maintained and extended as business needs change, or would you start from scratch with a new site? Now some vendors want you to believe that no matter how you answer any of these questions, and a hundred more, there is only one true answer: Whatever product they want to sell you! One size fits all is a myth. We don't have a unified theory of relativity, and we don't have a unified framework for web development at all scales. Some things work better for small applications (Quantum). Somethings work better for larger application (Relativity). There is a tipping point when you need to shift gears from quick-and-easy to extensible-and-robust. It's one thing to build a bike-shed; it's another to build a skyscraper. A professional chooses the right tool for the job. To a PHB, every application is a nail. My best advice is to pick the smallest possible part of your application and try that part with a couple of likely technologies. Then, choose the one that best suits the application, your team, and you. If it is not worth the trouble of doing even a small part more than once, then the job is probably a small enough job that you can snag Java Studio Enterprise and do it with JSF out of the box. * http://developers.sun.com/prodtech/javatools/jsenterprise/reference/techart/whatis.html HTH, Ted. http://husted.com/blog/ted/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: With a new project, what technologies should I use?
Wow, an answer from a prof. :) Sorry that I didn't give any information about the project I want to do. Your question showed that I missed a lot of things. - I am a sole developer building a 3MB source code application in a reasonable amount of time period (don't laugh at me please :) ). - The look and feel is not very important (i.e. some simple CSS and displaytag are fine). - As I am the only developer, I have to do everything from database, business logics to GUI. - I don't expect to use any prepared sql statement. I prefer using Hibernate or iBATIS. I think I will use iBATIS because iBATIS can call stored procedures (Hibernate cannot do that, can it?) because I can write stored procedures, triggers quite well (not well enough to build an application just using PL/SQL). - The site will contain a lot of dynamic elements and will not be updated often (updating is needed if a new functionality is required). - The business people are still figuring out what they want and I hope I do not have to build everything from scratch when they need a new feature. So, what is your advice with those information? Thanks for your answers. Sincerely. PS: By the way, what does PHB stand for in ` To a PHB, every application is a nail.'? -Original Message- From: Ted Husted [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 10, 2006 3:17 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: Re: With a new project, what technologies should I use? On 2/10/06, Vu, Thai [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: . Now what should I use if I have to write a new web application? And correct me if I'm wrong anywhere please. It's a little bit like asking a building contractor: What materials should I use to build a new structure? Just to pose a few rhetoric questions: Are you a sole developer building a five page application next week, or leading a team of ten developers building a five hundred application over the next year or two? Is the primary purpose of the application database access or something else? How important is look and feel? Are the java developers doing the markup, or is there a second team of HTML designers? Are you expected to use prepared statements, code your own SQL, or have it generated? Will the site be static or have a number of dynamic elements? How soon before the site needs to be updated (if ever)? Are the requirement stable, or are the business people still figuring out what they want? Will the site need to maintained and extended as business needs change, or would you start from scratch with a new site? Now some vendors want you to believe that no matter how you answer any of these questions, and a hundred more, there is only one true answer: Whatever product they want to sell you! One size fits all is a myth. We don't have a unified theory of relativity, and we don't have a unified framework for web development at all scales. Some things work better for small applications (Quantum). Somethings work better for larger application (Relativity). There is a tipping point when you need to shift gears from quick-and-easy to extensible-and-robust. It's one thing to build a bike-shed; it's another to build a skyscraper. A professional chooses the right tool for the job. To a PHB, every application is a nail. My best advice is to pick the smallest possible part of your application and try that part with a couple of likely technologies. Then, choose the one that best suits the application, your team, and you. If it is not worth the trouble of doing even a small part more than once, then the job is probably a small enough job that you can snag Java Studio Enterprise and do it with JSF out of the box. * http://developers.sun.com/prodtech/javatools/jsenterprise/reference/tech art/whatis.html HTH, Ted. http://husted.com/blog/ted/ - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
