RE: R: Struts vs .NET???

[Martin Gainty]

Well put Simone.
I think we all have to take a look at everything that is available to 
implement OOA/OOD/MVC and concentrate on the goal to produce working code 
for the client


What is Radio controlled land sailing?
Please feel free to contact me offline-

Molte Grazie,

Martin Gainty

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From: Simone - Dev [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: Struts Users Mailing List user@struts.apache.org
To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' user@struts.apache.org
Subject: R: Struts vs .NET???
Date: Sun, 3 Jul 2005 16:54:39 +0200
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Pardon my intrusion,
I just came home from a job trip, and saw more than 100 messages about
struts vs .net, and I was not able to read all the messages.

I just want to tell my opinion on this topic:

I use both Struts and .NET for my job.. Well.. Stuts for my opensource
development and .NET for my real payed job.

I've always worked on MS for job, and Java for pleasure, and in the last
years, with the arrival of .NET I changed a lot my ideas about MS.

VB6 was bad, ugly programming language I've ever seen, while Java was a
nice OO programming language, every university student will be happy to
use since it's all he studied...

Now .NET and C# closed the gap: MS has a easy to use OO programming
language (VC++ was very complex to use), it has ASP.NET with are quite
similar to JSF.

For my point of view the differences between the 2 platforms are nil...
(ok, one has that, the other has something else, but generally speaking
they are the same)

The only thing that, IMHO, .NET has is Visual Studio, while Java have
Eclipse, NetBeans...

VS is the best IDE I've ever seen, and VS2005 will be even better, with
testing, code coverage, integrated webserver and design tools. And all
out of the box.

While setting up Eclipse, to debug Struts application with Apache Tomcat
is a pain...
And think about the desktop applications: no visual designer for Java
can generate a nice code for the buttons and panels of the GUI. (unless
it use it's own GUI api like jBuilder or Eclipse)

And speaking about performances...
Generally speaking, in my experience, struts/java based web applications
tend to use much more CPU and memory than .NET ones.

Hope I didn't said something already said before...

Best regards
Simone


-
Simone Chiaretta
www.piyosailing.com/S
Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
Life is short, play hard


 -Messaggio originale-
 Da: Gregory Seidman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 Inviato: domenica 3 luglio 2005 16.10
 A: user@struts.apache.org
 Oggetto: Re: Struts vs .NET???


 On Sat, Jul 02, 2005 at 07:56:23PM -0700, netsql wrote:
 [...]
 } And now this is realy going to piss you off: You can do
 Apache Struts
 } MVC in C#:
 }
 http://svn.apache.org/viewcvs.cgi/struts/sandbox/trunk/overdri
ve/Nexus/Core/?rev=208875

See, now *that's* a cool idea. I'm afraid the straight code isn't of
much use to me without some examples of how it integrates with ASP.NET,
but if it can integrate as well as it does with JSP, that would be
excellent. Note that I 

Re: R: Struts vs .NET???

[netsql]

Simone - Dev wrote:


For my point of view the differences between the 2 platforms are nil...
(ok, one has that, the other has something else, but generally speaking
they are the same)




+1


While setting up Eclipse, to debug Struts application with Apache Tomcat
is a pain...



-1. It just not well documented:
Set up tomcat app.xml to point to where you eclipse hosts WEB-INF. Done!
Then use tomcat managment app to rest. This is old news.


And think about the desktop applications: no visual designer for Java
can generate a nice code for the buttons and panels of the GUI. (unless
it use it's own GUI api like jBuilder or Eclipse)


You can use VS '05 painter for *simple UI ONLY* imo. Else we'd be 
using NetBeans for Swing and JSF Studio.

Struts has them:
http://www.scioworks.com/scioworks_collage_screenshots.html
Swing has them:
http://www.computersinmotion.com/cgi-bin/homeframeload.pl?formname=products
Google is your friend.

Do you yealy think people on level of Craig, Husted, Clinton, Linus, 
Marti C, etc. use painters? Or that you are not productive?
Guns don't kill. People kill. Tools don't matter. A good developer is 
key, and you are not going to get one at $10.


Here is a feel good:
http://forums.microsoft.com/MSDN/default.aspx

Do you see how *LITTLE* trafic they get? :-)
That tells me something.


.V


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Re: R: Struts vs .NET???

[Craig McClanahan]

On 7/3/05, netsql [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 Do you yealy think people on level of Craig, Husted, Clinton, Linus,
 Marti C, etc. use painters? Or that you are not productive?
 Guns don't kill. People kill. Tools don't matter. A good developer is
 key, and you are not going to get one at $10.
 

FWIW, the pain and agony of writing AWT and Swing apps by hand was a
primary personal motivation for me to focus on web development in the
late 1990s :-).  On my day job (architect for Creator) I luckily don't
have to do this kind of development myself, and have stayed away from
it in my open source work as well -- the only thing that looks likely
to lure me back is something like the Matisse GUI builder that is
under active development in NetBeans 4.2.

  http://www.netbeans.org/kb/articles/matisse.html

From a Creator perspective, even though the target audience is
corporate developers, we've been very pleasantly surprised by the
reception from enterprise Java developers, who are basically saying
hey, we'd like the same sort of productivity improvements for our
work too!.  Of course, no attitude about development practices is
universal ... but we've been quite pleased by the number of people
with this reaction (and added some features in the Sun Java Studio
Creator 2 EA release just for them).

From a personal perspective, I was a die hard Emacs user until about a
year ago, when IDEs finally started getting to the point where they
could make *me* more productive.  As a result, nearly all my work on
Shale has been, and continues to be, done in NetBeans (4.0 at first,
4.1 currently).  If the Struts project ever gets to the point of
accepting IDE-specific project files in the source repository, I'd be
happy to check mine in to save other people the problem of setting
them up themselves.

I don't care what Vic, or anyone else, wants to use personally. 
However, I would hope people hire developers based on their
productivity rather than strictly on their technological approach.  
And, for anyone who tries to make generalizations about how the
*entire* world should work, just remember the following maxim:

All generalizations are false ... including this one

:-)

Craig

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