Re: Future of Flex
Hi Paul, I think that nowadays DOM differences across browsers are each day less and less, but Royale (as many other JS frameworks out there) try to remove any inconsistencies thanks to providing cross browser solutions that are tested in most used browsers. Maybe IE11 is the last big one difference and this year Microsoft planned to remove it, so I expect that the last problematic browser is left behind and only modern browsers are used very soon by most of the people out there in the internet, that means very few DOM inconsistencies. Far beyond, Royale should be not only cross browser, but cross platforms too. But while we have right now SWF and JS, we still lack other outputs like native IOS/Android, or WASM. That only could be done with more talented people working together to reach that goal. In fact I work in Jewel for JS only since supporting SWF will be a lot of work. Maybe someday I'll try to do it, or just try to support WASM that seems to have more future. I think the concept (in part) is the same as AIR. AIR tried to provide a runtime that could work cross platforms, Royale should do the same. Use the same programming model and make the tooling output what you need. Again how that could be done in the future will depend on how many people want to help, enjoy working on it and are passionate about make it happen. Thanks El vie., 11 sept. 2020 a las 16:07, Paul Stearns () escribió: > Carlos: > > Royale will have its place. However one thing which Royale and other > similar technologies will never fully implement is a 100% coherent runtime > environment. There will always be sacrifices to the needs of > Javascript/HTML. As long as there are multiple browser DOMs there will > always be the potential for incompatibility. > > AIR and other similar technologies will have a place for > people/applications which want/need a development platform where they can > be certain of the user interaction layer. The reason I chose Flex for > development is simple, I was tired of the limitations of HTML and I was > even more frustrated with the differences between browsers DOMs. When I > found that I could develop in one environment and run everywhere, I was > hooked. > > In my limited experience with Royale,some of the same bugaboos of browser > differences were still there. I am sure Royale will improve and become > virtually seamless. However from all my decades of IT development it is > difficult to build a reliable system when the foundation (DOMs) is > inconsistent. > > I believe there is a place for Flex/AIR moving forward. There is also a > place for Royale, and I will convert one Flex application to Royale, as it > definitively needs to run from a web browser. My major integrated PC > applications have been converted to AIR, and are in various stages of > testing & deployment. > > Paul R. Stearns > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc. > > 15280 NW 79th Ct. > Suite 250 > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016 > > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107 > Fax: (305)623-4588 > > > From: Carlos Rovira > Sent: 9/11/20 4:23 AM > To: users@flex.apache.org > Subject: Re: Future of Flex > Hi All just reposting here, since I saw Erik started this thread. Hope this > helps: > > As a long time Flex/Flash advocate I must say that runtime fate is set for > a long time, so in that front we can't do much more and go with the flow > like it happened with VHS/Beta, PC/Amiga, and many more... > > BUT, I think we can preserve what for me is of huge value: the Flex > programming model with AS3/MXML, View States, Binding, AMF (RPC), and much > more... through Apache Royale. For me having that productivity is > priceless. Also mixing with the good stuff in the modern development world > means to boost what we already had. For example, I think CSS > implementation in browsers is far better than the subset we had in Flash > Player (and Flex), so that joins the Royale programming model through > normal CSS... or through SASS :). > > I think Flex/AIR will still be there for as long as people will use it, > maybe unfortunately few people now. For many others it's normal that they > must go with the rest of the world. For many of them, like you, maybe is > late since you'll go React (that's normal since companies tend to go to the > mainstream tech for security), but just say that in 2020, I think Apache > Royale and Jewel set has reach a very good state and it's a pleasure to > work with it, as it was Flex. So maybe giving a try in the current state > would surprise you, and will make your migration easier than going React. > > I'll be presenting at ApacheCon at the end of this month (31th) a talk that > showcases the TodoMVC example here [1] and here [2]. Hope that helps others > to notice how far we reach, and that Royale is now a real option for all. > > Talks are here [3], and the TodoMVC talk is "Starting from a blank file" > > HTH > > Carlos > > [1] demo: https://royale.apache.org/todomvc-jewel/ > [2] code:
Re: Future of Flex
Hi Erik, As I said, I understand your company wants to go React. It's just natural. I'd love to see more companies trusting Royale and going with us, but while that is attractive don't think that should be our final purpose. I must say I'm glad to work on improving Royale since I believe in this technology and its programming model, I think there's nothing better than it and enjoy it! :). So getting others (individuals and companies) to jump and use it, would be very cool, but don't want that to make any difference, but the potential people that could invest his time in submitting PRs, patches or work in new outputs like WASM/IOS/Android. I think Royale should be fun and make people work with it for his personal apps or try to introduce in its business or company, but knowing there's a team of passionate people behind it that love to invest his time on making it better and better over time, and that nowadays is already working, and maybe we still could miss some things, but now anyone can learn Royale and make anything he still miss on the current state. Techs, frameworks,...all come and go all the time :), so I feel comfortable pushing something that is not behind the commercial business tentacles of Google (Angular), Facebook (React), Microsoft or Apple... So just say you, don't worry about your company going React, if you love the Flex (now Royale) programming model and have some personal Flex Apps you want to migrate, try to go yourself with Royale and enjoy it, I'm sure you will! :) Best, Carlos El vie., 11 sept. 2020 a las 17:47, Erik Thomas () escribió: > Hey Carlos and all who responded to my philosophical waxing about my > sadness at abandoning such an amazing platform for developing mobile apps. > > I plan to play with Royale and consider it for a new side project I'm > looking at for web, and I really appreciate the people who put so much of > their time into creating Royale. Being able to continue with the MXML/AS3 > model is extremely attractive, especially since I have such a large > collection of my own UI widgets and utilities. When the mobile theme was > initially released I immediately set out to create mobile apps but needed > some of the heavier weight controls in spark (not mobile theme) and so I > ended up recreating a lot of UI functionality from containers that didn't > need to solve for every use case under the sun which resulted in better > performance when mobile devices were so very slow. Of course now that > devices are so much faster, that issue faded away for the most part. But > being able to continue using my libraries with Royale for a web app is too > good to resist. > > But the decision to go with React Native for mobile has been made and the > investment in reworking our flagship mobile app will break ground later > this month. And we recently replaced our web app version of the mobile app > with React and are going live next week, so there's no room for Royale or > Flex at my company anymore, except for RTB sunsetting of the existing AIR > apps until we replace them. > > However, I agree with Paul's comments too about inconsistent DOMs > preventing even Royale from fully achieving what we've so enjoyed from > Flash all these years. It's just sad that Adobe lost their passion for Flex > and Flash/AIR so long ago and didn't keep up. I keep thinking how amazing > it would have been if the Flash/AIR was kept competitive, like > incorporating new device capabilities directly into the runtime by wrapping > the native calls, rather than depending on ANE developers to fill the gaps. > ANE is a great model, but Adobe relied too much on the ANE marketplace to > provide Flex developers with native functionality that really should have > been part of the runtime, organic functionality that nearly every app needs. > > And my only other complaint about the AIR runtime on mobile is the kludgy > implementation of stage text input that never kept up. Custom soft > keyboards should have been available as XCode and Android Studio exposed > new keyboards, like a Phone number keyboard for instance. And the way stage > text input fields have to be destroyed (not simply hidden) to avoid showing > up on top of other views. But we worked around all that. > > I am sorry to see the day we stop using Flex/AIR at my company. Oh well. > > I raise my glass to all the awesome designers, architects, and engineers > who worked at Macromedia, and later at Adobe, and later on the Apache Flex > OS project (and Royale) for creating such an amazing platform that brought > me such joy, some pain, frustration too, but most of all, pride in the > products I created with it. Since earning my ACE years and years ago I've > been so passionate about the platform, it's going to be hard to leave it > and this amazing community. > > Peace. > > Erik > > > > -- Carlos Rovira http://about.me/carlosrovira
Re: Future of Flex
Hey Carlos: Our decision to commit to React Native was because: 1.) It is very difficult to find skilled (or even interested in learning) Flex developers anymore. I posted a job on this very forum six weeks ago and received no interest from anyone wanting to go full-time as a Flex/AIR remote developer, and our other recruiting channel also came up empty. 2.) Schools are teaching React, and there are many young, passionate developers who want to work with it. 3.) The right business decision for us was to identify and embrace a platform that's proven, yet young enough to still be growing in adoption, and shares language, tools, libraries, design patterns etc., between web front-end (React) and mobile (React Native), and supports implementing native access to devices without relying solely on a plug-in marketplace. I'm not really interested in learning and developing with React myself, but I've been coding less and less as our company has started growing pretty fast now since we released an MVP in February that has gone pretty viral among investors who want to invest in pre-IPO companies, like Robinhood, Ripple, and more. If I were to start another company with a great app idea by myself, I will certainly use Flex/AIR for mobile, and almost certainly use Royale for web and continue with a Java/Spring back-end with MySQL all running in AWS cloud. That is my comfort zone tech-stack I've been working in for many years. Thanks for making me think about Royale for my next web project and I wish you the best of luck evangelizing and recruiting a strong team to push this tech back into the mainstream. Best regards, Erik = Hi Erik, As I said, I understand your company wants to go React. It's just natural. I'd love to see more companies trusting Royale and going with us, but while that is attractive don't think that should be our final purpose. I must say I'm glad to work on improving Royale since I believe in this technology and its programming model, I think there's nothing better than it and enjoy it! :). So getting others (individuals and companies) to jump and use it, would be very cool, but don't want that to make any difference, but the potential people that could invest his time in submitting PRs, patches or work in new outputs like WASM/IOS/Android. I think Royale should be fun and make people work with it for his personal apps or try to introduce in its business or company, but knowing there's a team of passionate people behind it that love to invest his time on making it better and better over time, and that nowadays is already working, and maybe we still could miss some things, but now anyone can learn Royale and make anything he still miss on the current state. Techs, frameworks,...all come and go all the time :), so I feel comfortable pushing something that is not behind the commercial business tentacles of Google (Angular), Facebook (React), Microsoft or Apple... So just say you, don't worry about your company going React, if you love the Flex (now Royale) programming model and have some personal Flex Apps you want to migrate, try to go yourself with Royale and enjoy it, I'm sure you will! :) Best, Carlos
Re: Future of Flex
Hi Erik, My history, although different (of course) is very similar to yours in terms of background, actual needs and work path, so understand perfectly what you tell me :) Let see if more people come to Royale to continue making it bigger. We don't need to be the next breaking tech. Others like haxe did a great job with its own passionate users, so I hope we have a sufficiente group of people interested in making something good and fun. thanks for your thoughts! :) El sáb., 12 sept. 2020 a las 18:31, Erik Thomas () escribió: > Hey Carlos: > > Our decision to commit to React Native was because: > > 1.) It is very difficult to find skilled (or even interested in learning) > Flex developers anymore. I posted a job on this very forum six weeks ago > and received no interest from anyone wanting to go full-time as a Flex/AIR > remote developer, and our other recruiting channel also came up empty. > > 2.) Schools are teaching React, and there are many young, passionate > developers who want to work with it. > > 3.) The right business decision for us was to identify and embrace a > platform that's proven, yet young enough to still be growing in adoption, > and shares language, tools, libraries, design patterns etc., between web > front-end (React) and mobile (React Native), and supports implementing > native access to devices without relying solely on a plug-in marketplace. > > I'm not really interested in learning and developing with React myself, > but I've been coding less and less as our company has started growing > pretty fast now since we released an MVP in February that has gone pretty > viral among investors who want to invest in pre-IPO companies, like > Robinhood, Ripple, and more. > > If I were to start another company with a great app idea by myself, I will > certainly use Flex/AIR for mobile, and almost certainly use Royale for web > and continue with a Java/Spring back-end with MySQL all running in AWS > cloud. That is my comfort zone tech-stack I've been working in for many > years. > > Thanks for making me think about Royale for my next web project and I wish > you the best of luck evangelizing and recruiting a strong team to push this > tech back into the mainstream. > > Best regards, > > Erik > > = > > Hi Erik, > > As I said, I understand your company wants to go React. It's just > natural. > I'd love to see more companies trusting Royale and going with us, but > while > that is attractive don't think that should be our final purpose. I > must say > I'm glad to work on improving Royale since I believe in this > technology and > its programming model, I think there's nothing better than it and > enjoy it! > :). So getting others (individuals and companies) to jump and use it, > would > be very cool, but don't want that to make any difference, but the > potential > people that could invest his time in submitting PRs, patches or work > in new > outputs like WASM/IOS/Android. > > I think Royale should be fun and make people work with it for his > personal > apps or try to introduce in its business or company, but knowing > there's a > team of passionate people behind it that love to invest his time on > making > it better and better over time, and that nowadays is already working, > and > maybe we still could miss some things, but now anyone can learn Royale > and > make anything he still miss on the current state. > > Techs, frameworks,...all come and go all the time :), so I feel > comfortable > pushing something that is not behind the commercial business tentacles > of > Google (Angular), Facebook (React), Microsoft or Apple... > > So just say you, don't worry about your company going React, if you > love > the Flex (now Royale) programming model and have some personal Flex > Apps > you want to migrate, try to go yourself with Royale and enjoy it, I'm > sure > you will! :) > > Best, > > Carlos > > -- Carlos Rovira http://about.me/carlosrovira
