Hi Paul, I think that nowadays DOM differences across browsers are each day less and less, but Royale (as many other JS frameworks out there) try to remove any inconsistencies thanks to providing cross browser solutions that are tested in most used browsers. Maybe IE11 is the last big one difference and this year Microsoft planned to remove it, so I expect that the last problematic browser is left behind and only modern browsers are used very soon by most of the people out there in the internet, that means very few DOM inconsistencies.
Far beyond, Royale should be not only cross browser, but cross platforms too. But while we have right now SWF and JS, we still lack other outputs like native IOS/Android, or WASM. That only could be done with more talented people working together to reach that goal. In fact I work in Jewel for JS only since supporting SWF will be a lot of work. Maybe someday I'll try to do it, or just try to support WASM that seems to have more future. I think the concept (in part) is the same as AIR. AIR tried to provide a runtime that could work cross platforms, Royale should do the same. Use the same programming model and make the tooling output what you need. Again how that could be done in the future will depend on how many people want to help, enjoy working on it and are passionate about make it happen. Thanks El vie., 11 sept. 2020 a las 16:07, Paul Stearns (<pa...@compuace.com.invalid>) escribió: > Carlos: > > Royale will have its place. However one thing which Royale and other > similar technologies will never fully implement is a 100% coherent runtime > environment. There will always be sacrifices to the needs of > Javascript/HTML. As long as there are multiple browser DOMs there will > always be the potential for incompatibility. > > AIR and other similar technologies will have a place for > people/applications which want/need a development platform where they can > be certain of the user interaction layer. The reason I chose Flex for > development is simple, I was tired of the limitations of HTML and I was > even more frustrated with the differences between browsers DOMs. When I > found that I could develop in one environment and run everywhere, I was > hooked. > > In my limited experience with Royale,some of the same bugaboos of browser > differences were still there. I am sure Royale will improve and become > virtually seamless. However from all my decades of IT development it is > difficult to build a reliable system when the foundation (DOMs) is > inconsistent. > > I believe there is a place for Flex/AIR moving forward. There is also a > place for Royale, and I will convert one Flex application to Royale, as it > definitively needs to run from a web browser. My major integrated PC > applications have been converted to AIR, and are in various stages of > testing & deployment. > > Paul R. Stearns > Advanced Consulting Enterprises, Inc. > > 15280 NW 79th Ct. > Suite 250 > Miami Lakes, Fl 33016 > > Voice: (305)623-0360 x107 > Fax: (305)623-4588 > > ---------------------------------------- > From: Carlos Rovira <carlosrov...@apache.org> > Sent: 9/11/20 4:23 AM > To: users@flex.apache.org > Subject: Re: Future of Flex > Hi All just reposting here, since I saw Erik started this thread. Hope this > helps: > > As a long time Flex/Flash advocate I must say that runtime fate is set for > a long time, so in that front we can't do much more and go with the flow > like it happened with VHS/Beta, PC/Amiga, and many more... > > BUT, I think we can preserve what for me is of huge value: the Flex > programming model with AS3/MXML, View States, Binding, AMF (RPC), and much > more... through Apache Royale. For me having that productivity is > priceless. Also mixing with the good stuff in the modern development world > means to boost what we already had. For example, I think CSS > implementation in browsers is far better than the subset we had in Flash > Player (and Flex), so that joins the Royale programming model through > normal CSS... or through SASS :). > > I think Flex/AIR will still be there for as long as people will use it, > maybe unfortunately few people now. For many others it's normal that they > must go with the rest of the world. For many of them, like you, maybe is > late since you'll go React (that's normal since companies tend to go to the > mainstream tech for security), but just say that in 2020, I think Apache > Royale and Jewel set has reach a very good state and it's a pleasure to > work with it, as it was Flex. So maybe giving a try in the current state > would surprise you, and will make your migration easier than going React. > > I'll be presenting at ApacheCon at the end of this month (31th) a talk that > showcases the TodoMVC example here [1] and here [2]. Hope that helps others > to notice how far we reach, and that Royale is now a real option for all. > > Talks are here [3], and the TodoMVC talk is "Starting from a blank file" > > HTH > > Carlos > > [1] demo: https://royale.apache.org/todomvc-jewel/ > [2] code: > > https://github.com/apache/royale-asjs/blob/develop/examples/crux/todomvc-jewel-crux/readme.md > [3] https://www.apachecon.com/acah2020/tracks/royale.html > > El vie., 11 sept. 2020 a las 8:47, Scott Matheson (<sc...@matheson.it>) > escribió: > > > Eric > > I have been in the business since 1982 seen a lot, I remember when > > our first IBM PC B/W screen with 64k memory, single floppy dive arrived > > and we just looked at it and said what are we to do with that > > > > I started developing on PL1, is GO not copy, that a different thread > > > > I have been developing in Flex since 2010, and really enjoyed the > > experience, I 100% agree with every thing you said > > > > Unfortunately Royal was too late for us, and we made the switch to React > > last year, we found electron for mobile was sufficient for our dneeds, we > > could still create a AIR app from out flex source code if we had, but why > > have 2 code bases if you do not need too > > > > The new React application is designed to look identical to the Flex app, > > and it does, an end user would be hard pressed see the difference > > > > I hate the React JS CSS design approach, but sometimes you just have to > > dig deep > > > > The world is not logical place > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > On 11 Sep 2020, at 03:55, Erik Thomas <e...@linqto.com> wrote: > > > > > > Hey all: > > > > > > If you are a Flex devotee, like me, a longtime admirer of the beauty in > > Flex that introduced a declarative + procedural model that preceded > > Microsoft's C sharp and WPF models that essentially stole the idea from > > Flex for a structural MVC where the view and controller were represented > by > > the MXML and as3 respectively, I believe there is much life left in Flex. > > > > > > It is still a very relevant platform for creating single-codebase > mobile > > apps for Android and iOS. It produces far smaller executables than Swift > > and most all other competing platforms. The availability of ANEs to > access > > native capability provides near parity with native app development, not > > quite, but close enough to get multiplatform support for a single > platform. > > > > > > I've been developing Flex apps since 2007 with the release of Flex 3 by > > Adobe. I was working for Intuit at the time Flex was a huge departure > from > > Intuit's C++/MFC centric development platform that was used for > QuickBooks > > (I was a QuickBooks engineer prior to accepting a challenge to develop a > > new product using Flex). It was refreshing to start a new project and not > > have to maintain and develop on a 6 million LOC C++ application. > > > > > > While I was at it I was also one of a team that was evaluating MS WPF > so > > I learned that too, and while I still think WPF was amazing, it stole > much > > of it's design from Macromedia that designed Flex, and I haven't seen a > new > > paradigm to challenge the declarative/procedural design even today, IMHO. > > But the real power is in the runtime. Just like Java practically > replaced C > > and C++ based web development because of the amazing advantages of a > > sandboxed runtime environment, the AIR runtime is brilliant, even today. > No > > other major platform for mobile (or web, though the flash player is > > definitely dying) can equal the performance of the AIR runtime. One must > > compile to native and that comes with a boatload of problems especially > > multi-platform support. A runtime engine is still brilliant, just as Java > > runtimes still power nearly half of the billions of web apps on the > > internet. > > > > > > What I don't understand is why Flex doesn't attract more developers, > but > > I'm sure it's because universities and colleges, and tech schools don't > > teach it because it's considered fringe. If people really understood what > > it could do we could see third party tools, ANEs, and new innovations > that > > pushed it back into the mainstream. > > > > > > Oh well. Sometimes the best ideas and designs don't achieve mindshare > > and fail for reasons entirely unrelated to capability. > > > > > > Ancients like me will remember the VHS vs. Betacam wars where the > latter > > was 10X better and still failed because of marketing, mindshare, and > > somewhat political reasoning. > > > > > > My company still has two very successful mobile apps built with > Flex/AIR > > and some ANEs by Distriqt (the very best ANE developer on the planet > > without doubt): Linqto and Keiretsu Forum. > > > > > > Alas, we have even succumbed to pressure to replace these apps with > > REACT Native and will be embarking on this road in the next month. It's a > > sad day. But now that a big company like Adobe has relinquished the reins > > of both Flex (some years ago) and AIR (to Harmann recently), it seems the > > fate of this amazing development platform is destined to the graveyard. > > > > > > I know there's lots of great innovation with Royale to breathe live > back > > into Flex apps, and there are migration options as well. These are great > > things, but in my opinion, unnecessary because the AIR runtime is FAR, > FAR > > better than relying on any browser-based rendering engine to render > > javascript, html, and CSS. > > > > > > Just sharing my opinion as someone who has made his living with Flex > > since 2007, was once a master/guru of MFC/C++ since Windows 1.5, and got > my > > first contract in 1983. > > > > > > Erik Thomas > > > Chief Architect > > > http://linqto.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > Carlos Rovira > http://about.me/carlosrovira > > > -- Carlos Rovira http://about.me/carlosrovira
