Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[James Knott]

Steve Edmonds wrote:
BTW, I've worked in the telecommunications industry for most of my 
career and it's been over 30 years since the last time I saw an 
analog system.  New Zealand would *REALLY* have to be a back water 
country to still be using an analog phone system.


Well just on the outskirts of NZ largest city I am 500m from the 
roadside exchange box thing. The analogue line went out when it rained 
and ADSL was next to useless. The national fibre trunk of the second 
largest telco goes past the door but they won't tap it for me. I have 
a 19km line of sight WiMax link now, also on another property that has 
a 30km WaiMax relay. Voip on both and stick it to the telcos. The 
national fibre rollout sounds good but I doubt it will reach me. 


I was referring to trunks and phone systems.  There are still plenty of 
analog "POTS" lines in use, even in Canada.  At the other end of your 
analog phone line is likely a digital phone exchange.  From that point 
on, the entire phone network is digital and has been for many years.  In 
my own home, I have a standard phone, which is connected to a voice over 
IP (VoIP) box which connects to my provider over the cable TV network.  
The call quality is better than it was when I connected to the central 
office over "twisted pair".



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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[Steve Edmonds]

On 26/07/12 12:51 AM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:

On 07/24/2012 10:34 AM, James Knott wrote:

Russell Wilson wrote:
try  starting with something like 1/4 population of New York, 1000 
times its surface area, and 1/4 of 1% of its financial worth


First off, I was thinking of the international trunks.  Analog 
systems are so obsolete that it would cost more to maintain them then 
to replace.  However, even domestically, the same still applies.  I 
don't know if you're referring to New York City or New York State, 
but even assuming the city, Canada has about 4 × the population, or 
16 × that of NZ, but the area of almost 10 million sq Kilometres is 
close to 40 times that of New Zealand, yet the analog phone system is 
long gone here.


BTW, I've worked in the telecommunications industry for most of my 
career and it's been over 30 years since the last time I saw an 
analog system.  New Zealand would *REALLY* have to be a back water 
country to still be using an analog phone system.


Well just on the outskirts of NZ largest city I am 500m from the 
roadside exchange box thing. The analogue line went out when it rained 
and ADSL was next to useless. The national fibre trunk of the second 
largest telco goes past the door but they won't tap it for me. I have a 
19km line of sight WiMax link now, also on another property that has a 
30km WaiMax relay. Voip on both and stick it to the telcos. The national 
fibre rollout sounds good but I doubt it will reach me.

Steve


I live in the "county seat" of Chemung County in New York State.  We 
are a city, but not a big one, unlike the "county seat" 50 mile from 
here.  They are 10 time bigber than ours.


There is a program where the government is pushing broadband access 
for most of the US users, but it does not mean that access is cheap.


What I would love to see is fiber to the homes instead of fiber to a 
"node" somewhere in the 4-6 block area and then have coax to the 
home.  That is what here for our cable-modem system.  Our DSL system 
goes through the phone line, but it can be more expensive.  They want 
you to have a "regular" non-digital phone line with them before you 
are able to get their service.  So even if you want a digital-phone 
service, you will be required to have a regular one as well.  I have 
my broadband downloading [only 120 MB/s uploading do to cable issues], 
digital phone, and TV digital cable service from the one company.  It 
cost less this way, but is still cost a lot out of my budget.


I would love to see a cheaper solution in my area.  With an 
inexpensive broadband service, I could add a third-party digital phone 
service and also watch most of my TV shows via the streaming video 
services [free mostly, but paid sometimes].  I could cut my budget for 
those services down to about a third of what I am currently paying.


What we need is the political boost for allowing competition in our 
market instead of having one cable company and one phone company. 
There is no competition to keep the rates down.





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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[Mirosław Zalewski]

On 25/07/2012 at 20:22, "anne-ology"  wrote:

>-> when Steve Jobs had the idea of connecting the world's
> communication, he used the existing cables, etc. ...

Are you trying to say that Steve Jobs had anything to do with current world 
communication system? Internet maybe?
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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[James Knott]

anne-ology wrote:

 why there cannot be a satellite for the southern hemisphere
which speaks with the northern one  [??? - is the $64,000 question;-)  ]


Actually, most satellites used for communications are geostationary and 
sit over the equator.  Whether they look north or south depends on which 
way the antennas are pointed.  However, for the past several years, 
fibre optic cables have taken over most of the connections that had been 
carried via satellite.




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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[anne-ology]

   The connection we use in the northern hemisphere is different from
that in the southern hemisphere;
using satellites up here came after the cables were installed.
[laid by U.S.-Britain ca. '40s]

   -> when Steve Jobs had the idea of connecting the world's
communication, he used the existing cables, etc. ...
why there cannot be a satellite for the southern hemisphere
which speaks with the northern one  [??? - is the $64,000 question  ;-) ]

   BUT those in the southern hemisphere should be better off than us up
here if either (1) these hackers are able to somehow knock out the
satellite and/or if (2) some asteroid [or whatever] knocks it out.



On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 7:44 AM, Tom Davies  wrote:

Hi :)
> Weird.  I assumed it was all done by satellites and that was why the
> connection to the outside world had such limited bandwidth and was so slow.
>
> I remember a few years ago a ship in the Mediterranean accidentally ripped
> up THE single cable connecting Asia to the rest of the world!  or least the
> middle-east(ish) part of Asia.  Tons of people were having serious problems
> with speed chess (less than 5min for an entire game).
>
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>
>
> From: Anthony Easthope 
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD
> To: users@global.libreoffice.org
> Date: Tuesday, 24 July, 2012, 10:38
>
> I was doing some reading about New Zealand's connection to the world and
> it turns out we down under tap into some underwater fiber cable and that
> the Government for some reason hires it from the US government, anyway
> somewhere in the agreement it mentions that NZ can't exceed a certain
> limit otherwise it would cook the service or something like that, anyway
> I am writing this in a hurry as some one else wants the Mac so ill see
> if i can post the link at a later date!
>
> On Sun, 22 Jul 2012, at 02:06 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
> > Hi again (sorry for the double-posting)  :)
> >
> > The issue about New Zealand's connection to the rest of the world cropped
> > up years ago in Ubuntu.  I think either Universities there or the
> > authorities or someone ran a big hosting site to mirror "the essentials"
> > and somehow Ubuntu managed to get mirrored on that.  Server-to-server
> > 'up'-loading (or is it downloading or cross-loading?) should be far
> > faster than going through a domestic route!
> >
> > I think the Ubuntu crowd discussed posting physical media to get the bulk
> > done more easily.
> > Regards from
> > Tom :)
> >
> >
> >
> > From: webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
> > Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD
> > To: users@global.libreoffice.org
> > Date: Saturday, 21 July, 2012, 23:18
> >
> >
> > DO you have a broadband Internet connection?  The .iso file is listed
> > here.
> > http://www.libreoffice.org/download/?type=box&version=3.5.5
> > If you do not have broadband connection, there should be a way for you to
> > get a copy from some source.  I have shipped one to Malta from the USA,
> > but do not like to spend my own money on shipping, most of the time.
> >
> > --
> >
> > Here is a link to the Online version of the DVD. [actually to the Install
> > page]
> > http://libreoffice-na.us/English-3.5-installs/install.html
> >
> > Browse this site and you will find all of the files and such on the DVD.
> > The online site tends to get updated more often than the physical media
> > or the .iso file does, but still it will give you a look at the DVD.
> >
> > Right now, the only real updates to the online version [same as the
> > physical one really] is the fact that there are 2 more chapters in Draw
> > online than the one that can be bought or the .iso file to be downloaded.
> >
> > Mostly there are the documentation, the 180+ dictionaries, the
> > extensions, templates, artwork, the extra free packages, etc., etc..  I
> > did not fee that a DVD should contain only the basic install files for
> > LibreOffice.  That would be a waste of a DVD. So it got filled with a lot
> > of things that I [and others] thought a user might want to have with
> > him/her on a DVD so that they did not have to go looking for it
> > elsewhere.  I must have 99% of the dictionaries that can work with
> > LibreOffice, unless you get them via any language packages, like you need
> > for a Linux install.
> >
> > 
> > On 07/21/2012 05:44 PM, Anthony Easthope wrote:
> > > I am curious as to what the 2gb of extras contain! I am considering
> > > purchasing a dvd but not sure if it is able to be shipped to New
> Zealand
> > > if it could that would be great!
> > >
> > > On Sat, 21 Jul 2012, at 04:07 AM, Fabian Rodriguez wrote:
> > >> On 07/20/2012 10:08 AM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
> > >>> Thanks to Drew, we now have a service that will "print-on-demand" a
> > >>> copy of the LibreOffice North American Community DVD - version 3.5.5.
> > >>>
> > >>> Here is a link fo

Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[James Knott]

webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:

On 07/24/2012 09:43 PM, Brian Barker wrote:

At 09:16 24/07/2012 -0400, Tim Lungstrom wrote:
Also the "lag time" for satellite can be up to 15 seconds from 
ground station through a satellite to the ground station.


Oh dear: the speed of light must have decreased by a factor of 63 
since I was at school!  Has someone told the scientific community?


(The delay on the double journey to and from a geostationary 
satellite is about a quarter of a second.)


Brian Barker



The lag time is due to the equipment, not the "travel time".

I have both standard and digital cable boxes in my place.  If I have 
both TVs on the same channel, the digital TV has a 2 second lag for 
audio and video than the non-digital TV's box.  That is do to the time 
it takes to convert the TV channel to the digital system and then the 
conversion back to the coax cable going into the digital TV's coax 
input.  Just in that simple case, there is a lag due to the equipment 
involved.


As for the time lag I gave you, that is the lag time given in my 
course in telecommunication and communication networking.  The problem 
is the equipment's lag time doing the processing of the signal to be 
transmitted and then the process of converting the signal back to the 
original format.





If equipment is imposing such a significant delay, then there's 
something seriously wrong.  As for the difference in TV, I doubt you're 
seeing much analog to digital conversion.  These days, the source is 
usually digital and has to be converted to analog for analog broadcast.  
I don't know how that course arrived at such a figure, as I have 
certainly never heard of it.  If it was real, a lot of common services 
wouldn't work.  For example, when trans-Atlantic calls first started 
going via satellite, the satellite channels were paired with cable 
channels, so that only one direction would go via satellite, so as to 
keep the echo delay to manageable levels (< 1/3 sec) .  Otherwise, the 
echo would interfere with speech.




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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[Kaya Saman]

On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 2:10 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P
 wrote:
> On 07/24/2012 09:43 PM, Brian Barker wrote:
>>
>> At 09:16 24/07/2012 -0400, Tim Lungstrom wrote:
>>>
>>> Also the "lag time" for satellite can be up to 15 seconds from ground
>>> station through a satellite to the ground station.
>>
>>
>> Oh dear: the speed of light must have decreased by a factor of 63 since I
>> was at school!  Has someone told the scientific community?
>>
>> (The delay on the double journey to and from a geostationary satellite is
>> about a quarter of a second.)
>>
>> Brian Barker
>>
>>
> The lag time is due to the equipment, not the "travel time".
>
> I have both standard and digital cable boxes in my place.  If I have both
> TVs on the same channel, the digital TV has a 2 second lag for audio and
> video than the non-digital TV's box.  That is do to the time it takes to
> convert the TV channel to the digital system and then the conversion back to
> the coax cable going into the digital TV's coax input.  Just in that simple
> case, there is a lag due to the equipment involved.
>
> As for the time lag I gave you, that is the lag time given in my course in
> telecommunication and communication networking.  The problem is the
> equipment's lag time doing the processing of the signal to be transmitted
> and then the process of converting the signal back to the original format.
>
>
>
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>

There are digital filters and delay's which 'could/should?' be added
to these devices to compensate for the lag-time of one signal.

It's similar to what they use in very large Audio PA systems when
having very long cable runs.


I even notice it when I go to my doctors, the surround speakers have a
few hundred ms delay over the TV speakers which is quite disturbing.


The mathematics involved however to 'auto-sense' something like that
however is quite complex so even on YouTube videos for Sports like
NASCAR et el I have to always adjust the speach delay manually in
mplayer as it fluctuates.


It is quite an interesting scientific phenomenon though, signal
delay/lag and propagation through different mediums.

Regards,

Kaya

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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[webmaster-Kracked_P_P]

On 07/24/2012 09:43 PM, Brian Barker wrote:

At 09:16 24/07/2012 -0400, Tim Lungstrom wrote:
Also the "lag time" for satellite can be up to 15 seconds from ground 
station through a satellite to the ground station.


Oh dear: the speed of light must have decreased by a factor of 63 
since I was at school!  Has someone told the scientific community?


(The delay on the double journey to and from a geostationary satellite 
is about a quarter of a second.)


Brian Barker



The lag time is due to the equipment, not the "travel time".

I have both standard and digital cable boxes in my place.  If I have 
both TVs on the same channel, the digital TV has a 2 second lag for 
audio and video than the non-digital TV's box.  That is do to the time 
it takes to convert the TV channel to the digital system and then the 
conversion back to the coax cable going into the digital TV's coax 
input.  Just in that simple case, there is a lag due to the equipment 
involved.


As for the time lag I gave you, that is the lag time given in my course 
in telecommunication and communication networking.  The problem is the 
equipment's lag time doing the processing of the signal to be 
transmitted and then the process of converting the signal back to the 
original format.



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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[webmaster-Kracked_P_P]

On 07/24/2012 10:34 AM, James Knott wrote:

Russell Wilson wrote:
try  starting with something like 1/4 population of New York, 1000 
times its surface area, and 1/4 of 1% of its financial worth


First off, I was thinking of the international trunks.  Analog systems 
are so obsolete that it would cost more to maintain them then to 
replace.  However, even domestically, the same still applies.  I don't 
know if you're referring to New York City or New York State, but even 
assuming the city, Canada has about 4 × the population, or 16 × that 
of NZ, but the area of almost 10 million sq Kilometres is close to 40 
times that of New Zealand, yet the analog phone system is long gone here.


BTW, I've worked in the telecommunications industry for most of my 
career and it's been over 30 years since the last time I saw an analog 
system.  New Zealand would *REALLY* have to be a back water country to 
still be using an analog phone system.




I live in the "county seat" of Chemung County in New York State.  We are 
a city, but not a big one, unlike the "county seat" 50 mile from here.  
They are 10 time bigber than ours.


There is a program where the government is pushing broadband access for 
most of the US users, but it does not mean that access is cheap.


What I would love to see is fiber to the homes instead of fiber to a 
"node" somewhere in the 4-6 block area and then have coax to the home.  
That is what here for our cable-modem system.  Our DSL system goes 
through the phone line, but it can be more expensive.  They want you to 
have a "regular" non-digital phone line with them before you are able to 
get their service.  So even if you want a digital-phone service, you 
will be required to have a regular one as well.  I have my broadband 
downloading [only 120 MB/s uploading do to cable issues], digital phone, 
and TV digital cable service from the one company.  It cost less this 
way, but is still cost a lot out of my budget.


I would love to see a cheaper solution in my area.  With an inexpensive 
broadband service, I could add a third-party digital phone service and 
also watch most of my TV shows via the streaming video services [free 
mostly, but paid sometimes].  I could cut my budget for those services 
down to about a third of what I am currently paying.


What we need is the political boost for allowing competition in our 
market instead of having one cable company and one phone company. There 
is no competition to keep the rates down.



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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I kinda assumed there would be some lag added due to processing at each end and 
up there.  Also bandwidth issues and perhaps that the satellites and supporting 
systems might prioritise military, government, corporate and scientific 
data-flow above house calls.

I doubt it's that photons have gotten lazy over the years!  Lol
Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Wed, 25/7/12, James Knott  wrote:

From: James Knott 
Subject: Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can 
Purchase a NA-DVD
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Wednesday, 25 July, 2012, 2:51

Brian Barker wrote:
>> Also the "lag time" for satellite can be up to 15 seconds from ground 
>> station through a satellite to the ground station.
> 
> Oh dear: the speed of light must have decreased by a factor of 63 since I was 
> at school!  Has someone told the scientific community?

Probably some politician's attempt to amend the laws of physics. ;-)

Another example: <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indiana_Pi_Bill


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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[James Knott]

Brian Barker wrote:
Also the "lag time" for satellite can be up to 15 seconds from ground 
station through a satellite to the ground station.


Oh dear: the speed of light must have decreased by a factor of 63 
since I was at school!  Has someone told the scientific community?


Probably some politician's attempt to amend the laws of physics. ;-)

Another example: 

Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[Brian Barker]

At 09:16 24/07/2012 -0400, Tim Lungstrom wrote:
Also the "lag time" for satellite can be up to 15 seconds from 
ground station through a satellite to the ground station.


Oh dear: the speed of light must have decreased by a factor of 63 
since I was at school!  Has someone told the scientific community?


(The delay on the double journey to and from a geostationary 
satellite is about a quarter of a second.)


Brian Barker


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Re: New Zealand connection,was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[Anthony Easthope]

I must say that we down under are now slowly undertaking a country wide
program to get majority of the country connected through fibre. I for
one had a digger parked on my front lawn for 2 weeks while they where
laying it down my street. only there is a catch to this scheme we are
unable to connect to it until 2015! or at least thats for my region
(taranaki)

On Tue, 24 Jul 2012, at 05:30 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
> Hi :)
> Ahh, finally i got this far back in the thread!
> 
> Didn't New Zealand win the "Best backdrop" award at the Oscars?  Surely
> that has to count for something! 
> Regards from
> Tom :)
> 
> 
> --- On Tue, 24/7/12, Russell Wilson  wrote:
> 
> From: Russell Wilson 
> Subject: Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now
> can Purchase a NA-DVD
> To: "users@global.libreoffice.org" 
> Date: Tuesday, 24 July, 2012, 15:15
> 
> try  starting with something like 1/4 population of New York, 1000 times
> its surface area, and 1/4 of 1% of its financial worth
> 
> Russell
> Dunedin, New Zealand
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >Tom Davies wrote:
> >> Weird.  I assumed it was all done by satellites and that was why the 
> >> connection to the outside world had such limited bandwidth and was so slow.
> >
> >Satellites are so 20th century.  ;-)
> >
> >Actually, with all the fibre cables that have been laid around the world, I 
> >don't understand how NZ could have such poor connections.
> >
> >
> 
> 
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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Ahh, finally i got this far back in the thread!

Didn't New Zealand win the "Best backdrop" award at the Oscars?  Surely that 
has to count for something! 
Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Tue, 24/7/12, Russell Wilson  wrote:

From: Russell Wilson 
Subject: Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can 
Purchase a NA-DVD
To: "users@global.libreoffice.org" 
Date: Tuesday, 24 July, 2012, 15:15

try  starting with something like 1/4 population of New York, 1000 times its 
surface area, and 1/4 of 1% of its financial worth

Russell
Dunedin, New Zealand




>Tom Davies wrote:
>> Weird.  I assumed it was all done by satellites and that was why the 
>> connection to the outside world had such limited bandwidth and was so slow.
>
>Satellites are so 20th century.  ;-)
>
>Actually, with all the fibre cables that have been laid around the world, I 
>don't understand how NZ could have such poor connections.
>
>


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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[Kaya Saman]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 5:24 PM, Tom Davies  wrote:
> Hi :)
> Going 'off-topic' in a thread like this is not a problem.  We are not trying 
> to fix a set problem for a specific op.  It's just a chat.  I broke it out of 
> the original question by forwarding it back to the list and i changed the 
> subject-line so that people could filter it out quickly and easily.
>
> Oooo i dream of getting 10Mbps at the wall in this office!  Yes, that is 10 
> not anywhere near 100!  We had much higher at the last place and even though 
> we are all just emailing it does feel quite sluggish here.  City centre 
> location in a city just outside London (about an hour away by train or car).
>
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>

Hi Tom,

take a look at: https://hyperoptic.com/web/guest/home

currently they're majorly in London but will start spreading out in a
few years.


In conjunction to Metro Ethernet it's pretty cheap... as the
equivalent would be in the 1000's of GBP :-)


Regards,


Kaya

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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Going 'off-topic' in a thread like this is not a problem.  We are not trying to 
fix a set problem for a specific op.  It's just a chat.  I broke it out of the 
original question by forwarding it back to the list and i changed the 
subject-line so that people could filter it out quickly and easily.  

Oooo i dream of getting 10Mbps at the wall in this office!  Yes, that is 10 not 
anywhere near 100!  We had much higher at the last place and even though we are 
all just emailing it does feel quite sluggish here.  City centre location in a 
city just outside London (about an hour away by train or car).  

Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Tue, 24/7/12, Kaya Saman  wrote:



On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:35 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P
 wrote:
> On 07/24/2012 10:02 AM, James Knott wrote:
>>
>> webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
>>>
>>> That underwater cable network is used for both phone and Internet
>>> communication, since phone systems not seem to be converted to digital to go
>>> through the cables to give more "lines" of communication between countries
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Are analog trunks still in use anywhere?  The phone system has been
>> digital for many years, long before there was an Internet. It'd have to be
>> an extremely old cable to require analog trunks. Anything running over fibre
>> would most certainly be digital.
>>
> They still have the cables and they are used.  Mostly they are used as
> digital trunk lines, but not every one has been converted do to their age.
> The expense of laying a new fiber cable across a large body of ocean/sea is
> something that slows up the process of many parts of the world getting the
> better/faster connections.  The poorer the country, or the less number of
> potential users of the service, the longer it will take for the giant
> communication companies to spend the type of money needed to give these
> users the type of service many of us enjoy.  Europe has a better broadband
> system than most of the USA does.  I saw a program for places like the
> Netherlands and other European countries where they have a very large
> section of their country with fiber to the home and they have many different
> companies to choose from for broadband.  With that large competition for the
> broadband market, their Internet prices for 50 MB/s bandwidth is lower than
> my area of the USA for a 5 to 10 MB/s access.  We have just two options.
> Cable modem service or a DSL service.  We pay $50+ a month for either.  On
> some science TV programming, they showed services for as little as $15 a
> month for the same services.  It all comes down to how good is their trunk
> system and how the marketing controls over those trunk lines are regulated.
> For countries like New Zealand, they have to rely on a limited trunk cable
> on the ocean floor.  I would wonder if it was possible to run a trunk line
> from their nation to Australia.  Would it give them more access, or is
> Australia using the same trunk cable system as well.
>
>

Sorry to jump in on a whim like this however, there are quite a few
countries out there in the world now upgrading to fiber as the defacto
for residential "broadband internet" platforms. A few years back when
I was doing the Cisco CCNA course my then lecturer who was an
ex-university lecturer stated that during his frequest travels to
China, they had 100Mbps to the port on the wall at home.

In fact even in Europe they are starting to offer psuedo-metro
solutions where you get either 100Mbps or 1Gbps connections directly
to the wall for business or residences.

The question with these speeds then becomes can non-carrier and
essentially consumer based hardware support those speeds?

Even VDSL2 needs a bit of power to be able to get the maximum out of
between 32-64Mbps which is rated at.


Without going too much off-topic looking at most business based
network kit: Cisco, Juniper etc they can't get anywhere near
100Mbps on routed connections.


The $5000 29xx series of Cisco is claimed to do round 75Mbps
manufacturers figures, so in essence you are probably looking at round
65-70Mbps. I know for a fact that the Cisco 1800 series maxes out at
round 50-55Mbps when using inter-vlan routing, the 800 series is worse
at 40-45Mbps. (I have a few Cisco's at home to test with :-) )


At work our Juniper firewalls doing inter-vlan routing will only
manage 400Mbps in conjunction with $35,000 Cisco 4900_m switches.


Actually it's cheaper and better to build one's own routing system
however, that is wy off-topic. :-)



So in essence I beleive that network gear needs to get better if we
can truly utilize high-speed carriers which are fast coming directly
to our homes!


Regards,


Kaya


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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[James Knott]

Tom Davies wrote:

I think the distance between Australia and New Zealand is surprisingly large.  
Nothing like as close as i keep thinking it is.


If Sarah Palin lived in NZ, she could see Australia from her home. ;-)



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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[Kaya Saman]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 3:35 PM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P
 wrote:
> On 07/24/2012 10:02 AM, James Knott wrote:
>>
>> webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
>>>
>>> That underwater cable network is used for both phone and Internet
>>> communication, since phone systems not seem to be converted to digital to go
>>> through the cables to give more "lines" of communication between countries
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>> Are analog trunks still in use anywhere?  The phone system has been
>> digital for many years, long before there was an Internet. It'd have to be
>> an extremely old cable to require analog trunks. Anything running over fibre
>> would most certainly be digital.
>>
> They still have the cables and they are used.  Mostly they are used as
> digital trunk lines, but not every one has been converted do to their age.
> The expense of laying a new fiber cable across a large body of ocean/sea is
> something that slows up the process of many parts of the world getting the
> better/faster connections.  The poorer the country, or the less number of
> potential users of the service, the longer it will take for the giant
> communication companies to spend the type of money needed to give these
> users the type of service many of us enjoy.  Europe has a better broadband
> system than most of the USA does.  I saw a program for places like the
> Netherlands and other European countries where they have a very large
> section of their country with fiber to the home and they have many different
> companies to choose from for broadband.  With that large competition for the
> broadband market, their Internet prices for 50 MB/s bandwidth is lower than
> my area of the USA for a 5 to 10 MB/s access.  We have just two options.
> Cable modem service or a DSL service.  We pay $50+ a month for either.  On
> some science TV programming, they showed services for as little as $15 a
> month for the same services.  It all comes down to how good is their trunk
> system and how the marketing controls over those trunk lines are regulated.
> For countries like New Zealand, they have to rely on a limited trunk cable
> on the ocean floor.  I would wonder if it was possible to run a trunk line
> from their nation to Australia.  Would it give them more access, or is
> Australia using the same trunk cable system as well.
>
>
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> Problems?
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> All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be
> deleted
>

Sorry to jump in on a whim like this however, there are quite a few
countries out there in the world now upgrading to fiber as the defacto
for residential "broadband internet" platforms. A few years back when
I was doing the Cisco CCNA course my then lecturer who was an
ex-university lecturer stated that during his frequest travels to
China, they had 100Mbps to the port on the wall at home.

In fact even in Europe they are starting to offer psuedo-metro
solutions where you get either 100Mbps or 1Gbps connections directly
to the wall for business or residences.

The question with these speeds then becomes can non-carrier and
essentially consumer based hardware support those speeds?

Even VDSL2 needs a bit of power to be able to get the maximum out of
between 32-64Mbps which is rated at.


Without going too much off-topic looking at most business based
network kit: Cisco, Juniper etc they can't get anywhere near
100Mbps on routed connections.


The $5000 29xx series of Cisco is claimed to do round 75Mbps
manufacturers figures, so in essence you are probably looking at round
65-70Mbps. I know for a fact that the Cisco 1800 series maxes out at
round 50-55Mbps when using inter-vlan routing, the 800 series is worse
at 40-45Mbps. (I have a few Cisco's at home to test with :-) )


At work our Juniper firewalls doing inter-vlan routing will only
manage 400Mbps in conjunction with $35,000 Cisco 4900_m switches.


Actually it's cheaper and better to build one's own routing system
however, that is wy off-topic. :-)



So in essence I beleive that network gear needs to get better if we
can truly utilize high-speed carriers which are fast coming directly
to our homes!


Regards,


Kaya

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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[James Knott]

webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:

On 07/24/2012 10:02 AM, James Knott wrote:

webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
That underwater cable network is used for both phone and Internet 
communication, since phone systems not seem to be converted to 
digital to go through the cables to give more "lines" of 
communication between countries




Are analog trunks still in use anywhere?  The phone system has been 
digital for many years, long before there was an Internet. It'd have 
to be an extremely old cable to require analog trunks. Anything 
running over fibre would most certainly be digital.


They still have the cables and they are used.  Mostly they are used as 
digital trunk lines, but not every one has been converted do to their 
age.  The expense of laying a new fiber cable across a large body of 
ocean/sea is something that slows up the process of many parts of the 
world getting the better/faster connections. The poorer the country, 
or the less number of potential users of the service, the longer it 
will take for the giant communication companies to spend the type of 
money needed to give these users the type of service many of us 
enjoy.  Europe has a better broadband system than most of the USA 
does.  I saw a program for places like the Netherlands and other 
European countries where they have a very large section of their 
country with fiber to the home and they have many different companies 
to choose from for broadband.  With that large competition for the 
broadband market, their Internet prices for 50 MB/s bandwidth is lower 
than my area of the USA for a 5 to 10 MB/s access.  We have just two 
options. Cable modem service or a DSL service.  We pay $50+ a month 
for either.  On some science TV programming, they showed services for 
as little as $15 a month for the same services.  It all comes down to 
how good is their trunk system and how the marketing controls over 
those trunk lines are regulated.   For countries like New Zealand, 
they have to rely on a limited trunk cable on the ocean floor.  I 
would wonder if it was possible to run a trunk line from their nation 
to Australia.  Would it give them more access, or is Australia using 
the same trunk cable system as well.





This list 
 
shows many cables going to New Zealand, though some have now been 
decommissioned.  I see links to Canada, U.S., Australia, Fiji and other 
islands.  As for local access, you might be interested in this article: 



These days, low bandwidth tends to be more of a political vs economic or 
technical issue.  For example, in the U.S., someone else mentioned low 
bandwidth in some areas.  Yet, in some states, the incumbent carriers 
have pushed for state laws that prohibit municipalities from providing 
Internet service in areas that the carriers refuse to.  This leaves the 
residents with no access to high speed internet.





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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I think the distance between Australia and New Zealand is surprisingly large.  
Nothing like as close as i keep thinking it is.  

The Netherlands and Sweden are very atypical of European countries.  I think 
they have an extremely high tax-rate but that gets put into very high 
visibility projects instead of being sunk into black-holes such as "defence" or 
things that only the rich and famous or just people in the capital get to use.  

Regard from
Tom :)  



--- On Tue, 24/7/12, webmaster-Kracked_P_P  wrote:

From: webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
Subject: Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can 
Purchase a NA-DVD
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Tuesday, 24 July, 2012, 15:35

On 07/24/2012 10:02 AM, James Knott wrote:
> webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
>> That underwater cable network is used for both phone and Internet 
>> communication, since phone systems not seem to be converted to digital to go 
>> through the cables to give more "lines" of communication between countries
> 
> 
> 
> Are analog trunks still in use anywhere?  The phone system has been digital 
> for many years, long before there was an Internet. It'd have to be an 
> extremely old cable to require analog trunks. Anything running over fibre 
> would most certainly be digital.
> 
They still have the cables and they are used.  Mostly they are used as digital 
trunk lines, but not every one has been converted do to their age.  The expense 
of laying a new fiber cable across a large body of ocean/sea is something that 
slows up the process of many parts of the world getting the better/faster 
connections.  The poorer the country, or the less number of potential users of 
the service, the longer it will take for the giant communication companies to 
spend the type of money needed to give these users the type of service many of 
us enjoy.  Europe has a better broadband system than most of the USA does.  I 
saw a program for places like the Netherlands and other European countries 
where they have a very large section of their country with fiber to the home 
and they have many different companies to choose from for broadband.  With that 
large competition for the broadband market, their Internet prices for 50 MB/s 
bandwidth is lower than my
 area of the USA for a 5 to 10 MB/s access.  We have just two options.  Cable 
modem service or a DSL service.  We pay $50+ a month for either.  On some 
science TV programming, they showed services for as little as $15 a month for 
the same services.  It all comes down to how good is their trunk system and how 
the marketing controls over those trunk lines are regulated.   For countries 
like New Zealand, they have to rely on a limited trunk cable on the ocean 
floor.  I would wonder if it was possible to run a trunk line from their nation 
to Australia.  Would it give them more access, or is Australia using the same 
trunk cable system as well.

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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[James Knott]

James Knott wrote:

it would cost more to maintain them then^H^H^H^H than to replace.




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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[webmaster-Kracked_P_P]

On 07/24/2012 10:02 AM, James Knott wrote:

webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
That underwater cable network is used for both phone and Internet 
communication, since phone systems not seem to be converted to 
digital to go through the cables to give more "lines" of 
communication between countries




Are analog trunks still in use anywhere?  The phone system has been 
digital for many years, long before there was an Internet. It'd have 
to be an extremely old cable to require analog trunks. Anything 
running over fibre would most certainly be digital.


They still have the cables and they are used.  Mostly they are used as 
digital trunk lines, but not every one has been converted do to their 
age.  The expense of laying a new fiber cable across a large body of 
ocean/sea is something that slows up the process of many parts of the 
world getting the better/faster connections.  The poorer the country, or 
the less number of potential users of the service, the longer it will 
take for the giant communication companies to spend the type of money 
needed to give these users the type of service many of us enjoy.  Europe 
has a better broadband system than most of the USA does.  I saw a 
program for places like the Netherlands and other European countries 
where they have a very large section of their country with fiber to the 
home and they have many different companies to choose from for 
broadband.  With that large competition for the broadband market, their 
Internet prices for 50 MB/s bandwidth is lower than my area of the USA 
for a 5 to 10 MB/s access.  We have just two options.  Cable modem 
service or a DSL service.  We pay $50+ a month for either.  On some 
science TV programming, they showed services for as little as $15 a 
month for the same services.  It all comes down to how good is their 
trunk system and how the marketing controls over those trunk lines are 
regulated.   For countries like New Zealand, they have to rely on a 
limited trunk cable on the ocean floor.  I would wonder if it was 
possible to run a trunk line from their nation to Australia.  Would it 
give them more access, or is Australia using the same trunk cable system 
as well.


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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[James Knott]

Russell Wilson wrote:

try  starting with something like 1/4 population of New York, 1000 times its 
surface area, and 1/4 of 1% of its financial worth


First off, I was thinking of the international trunks.  Analog systems 
are so obsolete that it would cost more to maintain them then to 
replace.  However, even domestically, the same still applies.  I don't 
know if you're referring to New York City or New York State, but even 
assuming the city, Canada has about 4 × the population, or 16 × that of 
NZ, but the area of almost 10 million sq Kilometres is close to 40 times 
that of New Zealand, yet the analog phone system is long gone here.


BTW, I've worked in the telecommunications industry for most of my 
career and it's been over 30 years since the last time I saw an analog 
system.  New Zealand would *REALLY* have to be a back water country to 
still be using an analog phone system.




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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[Jay Lozier]

On 07/24/2012 10:15 AM, Russell Wilson wrote:

try  starting with something like 1/4 population of New York, 1000 times its 
surface area, and 1/4 of 1% of its financial worth

Russell
Dunedin, New Zealand
In the US, there are rural areas that still do not have very fast 
connections because of the cost of installing fiber cable.






From: James Knott 
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Sent: Wednesday, 25 July 2012 1:57 AM
Subject: Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can 
Purchase a NA-DVD

Tom Davies wrote:

Weird.  I assumed it was all done by satellites and that was why the connection 
to the outside world had such limited bandwidth and was so slow.

Satellites are so 20th century.  ;-)

Actually, with all the fibre cables that have been laid around the world, I 
don't understand how NZ could have such poor connections.


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--
Jay Lozier
jsloz...@gmail.com


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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[Russell Wilson]

try  starting with something like 1/4 population of New York, 1000 times its 
surface area, and 1/4 of 1% of its financial worth

Russell
Dunedin, New Zealand




>
> From: James Knott 
>To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Wednesday, 25 July 2012 1:57 AM
>Subject: Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can 
>Purchase a NA-DVD
> 
>Tom Davies wrote:
>> Weird.  I assumed it was all done by satellites and that was why the 
>> connection to the outside world had such limited bandwidth and was so slow.
>
>Satellites are so 20th century.  ;-)
>
>Actually, with all the fibre cables that have been laid around the world, I 
>don't understand how NZ could have such poor connections.
>
>
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>
>
>
>
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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[James Knott]

webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
That underwater cable network is used for both phone and Internet 
communication, since phone systems not seem to be converted to digital 
to go through the cables to give more "lines" of communication between 
countries




Are analog trunks still in use anywhere?  The phone system has been 
digital for many years, long before there was an Internet.  It'd have to 
be an extremely old cable to require analog trunks. Anything running 
over fibre would most certainly be digital.




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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[James Knott]

Tom Davies wrote:

Weird.  I assumed it was all done by satellites and that was why the connection 
to the outside world had such limited bandwidth and was so slow.


Satellites are so 20th century.  ;-)

Actually, with all the fibre cables that have been laid around the 
world, I don't understand how NZ could have such poor connections.



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Re: New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[webmaster-Kracked_P_P]

Mostly it is fiber/copper for world-wide communication.
That underwater cable network is used for both phone and Internet 
communication, since phone systems not seem to be converted to digital 
to go through the cables to give more "lines" of communication between 
countries, i.e. more phone connections between people.  Long distance is 
now mostly Internet-based since it cost less to send phone through the 
communication networks between countries in a Internet-based digital 
phone system.  That is what makes having a call center in India for a US 
based company so much as a viable option, cheap person to call center 
calling. If it was the old style phone connections, it would be too 
expensive.


SO
now there is a set of underwater cables between large land masses in the 
world, including island nations large enough, like New Zealand.  A few 
years back, the cable running from the west coast of the US, down to 
South America, was tapped to give more options to a Central American 
country.  They we using the cable connection on the eastern side of the 
country that was much older and over-taxed with users.  This worked, but 
that tap reduced "bandwidth" to the countries to the south.  But, the 
good part was if there was a problem with the cable to the north of the 
tap, the countries south of that problem could have their communications 
diverted through the Central American country's tap to the Caribbean 
cable network.


As for satellites, it is a more expensive route to go for digital 
communications.  You need to have a powerful uplink and such on your 
end, but there are limits to how much bandwidth can be sent through a 
satellite nowadays. Also the "lag time" for satellite can be up to 15 
seconds from ground station through a satellite to the ground station.


On 07/24/2012 08:44 AM, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi :)
Weird.  I assumed it was all done by satellites and that was why the connection 
to the outside world had such limited bandwidth and was so slow.

I remember a few years ago a ship in the meditteranean accidentally ripped up 
THE single cable connecting Asia to the rest of the world!  or least the 
middle-east(ish) part of Asia.  Tons of people were having serious problems 
with speed chess (less than 5min for an entire game).

Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Tue, 24/7/12, Anthony Easthope  wrote:

From: Anthony Easthope 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Tuesday, 24 July, 2012, 10:38

I was doing some reading about New Zealand's connection to the world and
it turns out we down under tap into some underwater fiber cable and that
the Government for some reason hires it from the US government, anyway
somewhere in the agreement it mentions that NZ can't exceed a ceartin
limit otherwise it would cook the service or something like that, anyway
I am writing this in a hurry as some one else wants the Mac so ill see
if i can post the link at a later date!

On Sun, 22 Jul 2012, at 02:06 PM, Tom Davies wrote:

Hi again (sorry for the double-posting)  :)

The issue about New Zealand's connection to the rest of the world cropped
up years ago in Ubuntu.  I think either Universities there or the
authorities or someone ran a big hosting site to mirror "the essentials"
and somehow Ubuntu managed to get mirrored on that.  Server-to-server
'up'-loading (or is it downloading or cross-loading?) should be far
faster than going through a domestic route!

I think the Ubuntu crowd discussed posting physical media to get the bulk
done more easily.
Regards from
Tom :)


--- On Sat, 21/7/12, webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
wrote:

From: webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Saturday, 21 July, 2012, 23:18


DO you have a broadband Internet connection?  The .iso file is listed
here.
http://www.libreoffice.org/download/?type=box&version=3.5.5
If you do not have broadband connection, there should be a way for you to
get a copy from some source.  I have shipped one to Malta from the USA,
but do not like to spend my own money on shipping, most of the time.

--

Here is a link to the Online version of the DVD. [actually to the Install
page]
http://libreoffice-na.us/English-3.5-installs/install.html

Browse this site and you will find all of the files and such on the DVD.
The online site tends to get updated more often than the physical media
or the .iso file does, but still it will give you a look at the DVD.

Right now, the only real updates to the online version [same as the
physical one really] is the fact that there are 2 more chapters in Draw
online than the one that can be bought or the .iso file to be downloaded.

Mostly there are the documentation, the 180+ dictionaries, the
extensions, templates, artwork, the extra free packages, etc., etc..  I
did not fee that a DVD should contain only the basic install files for
LibreOffice.  That would be a waste of a DVD. So it got fil

New Zealand connection, was Fw: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Weird.  I assumed it was all done by satellites and that was why the connection 
to the outside world had such limited bandwidth and was so slow.  

I remember a few years ago a ship in the meditteranean accidentally ripped up 
THE single cable connecting Asia to the rest of the world!  or least the 
middle-east(ish) part of Asia.  Tons of people were having serious problems 
with speed chess (less than 5min for an entire game).  

Regards from
Tom :)  


--- On Tue, 24/7/12, Anthony Easthope  wrote:

From: Anthony Easthope 
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Date: Tuesday, 24 July, 2012, 10:38

I was doing some reading about New Zealand's connection to the world and
it turns out we down under tap into some underwater fiber cable and that
the Government for some reason hires it from the US government, anyway
somewhere in the agreement it mentions that NZ can't exceed a ceartin
limit otherwise it would cook the service or something like that, anyway
I am writing this in a hurry as some one else wants the Mac so ill see
if i can post the link at a later date!

On Sun, 22 Jul 2012, at 02:06 PM, Tom Davies wrote:
> Hi again (sorry for the double-posting)  :)
> 
> The issue about New Zealand's connection to the rest of the world cropped
> up years ago in Ubuntu.  I think either Universities there or the
> authorities or someone ran a big hosting site to mirror "the essentials"
> and somehow Ubuntu managed to get mirrored on that.  Server-to-server
> 'up'-loading (or is it downloading or cross-loading?) should be far
> faster than going through a domestic route!  
> 
> I think the Ubuntu crowd discussed posting physical media to get the bulk
> done more easily.  
> Regards from
> Tom :)  
> 
> 
> --- On Sat, 21/7/12, webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
> wrote:
> 
> From: webmaster-Kracked_P_P 
> Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] now can Purchase a NA-DVD
> To: users@global.libreoffice.org
> Date: Saturday, 21 July, 2012, 23:18
> 
> 
> DO you have a broadband Internet connection?  The .iso file is listed
> here.
> http://www.libreoffice.org/download/?type=box&version=3.5.5
> If you do not have broadband connection, there should be a way for you to
> get a copy from some source.  I have shipped one to Malta from the USA,
> but do not like to spend my own money on shipping, most of the time.
> 
> --
> 
> Here is a link to the Online version of the DVD. [actually to the Install
> page]
> http://libreoffice-na.us/English-3.5-installs/install.html
> 
> Browse this site and you will find all of the files and such on the DVD. 
> The online site tends to get updated more often than the physical media
> or the .iso file does, but still it will give you a look at the DVD.
> 
> Right now, the only real updates to the online version [same as the
> physical one really] is the fact that there are 2 more chapters in Draw
> online than the one that can be bought or the .iso file to be downloaded.
> 
> Mostly there are the documentation, the 180+ dictionaries, the
> extensions, templates, artwork, the extra free packages, etc., etc..  I
> did not fee that a DVD should contain only the basic install files for
> LibreOffice.  That would be a waste of a DVD. So it got filled with a lot
> of things that I [and others] thought a user might want to have with
> him/her on a DVD so that they did not have to go looking for it
> elsewhere.  I must have 99% of the dictionaries that can work with
> LibreOffice, unless you get them via any language packages, like you need
> for a Linux install.
> 
> 
> On 07/21/2012 05:44 PM, Anthony Easthope wrote:
> > I am curious as to what the 2gb of extras contain! I am considering
> > purchasing a dvd but not sure if it is able to be shipped to New Zealand
> > if it could that would be great!
> > 
> > On Sat, 21 Jul 2012, at 04:07 AM, Fabian Rodriguez wrote:
> >> On 07/20/2012 10:08 AM, webmaster-Kracked_P_P wrote:
> >>> Thanks to Drew, we now have a service that will "print-on-demand" a
> >>> copy of the LibreOffice North American Community DVD - version 3.5.5.
> >>> 
> >>> Here is a link for a direct retail page:
> >>> http://kunaki.com/sales.asp?PID=PX00B1FF2L
> >>> **Kunaki handles all the payment collection.**
> >>> 
> >> [...]
> >> 
> >> Well done, Drew! I had been researching manufacturers, this is the same
> >> used by Raphael Hertzog to distribute his Debian remix:
> >> http://raphaelhertzog.com/products/debian-cd-dvd/
> >> 
> >> I had that in my personal ToDo for a while
> >> (http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/User:MagicFab/LibODVD#ToDo), glad
> >> you're validating it. If/when you have a sample of what they ship, it'd
> >> be important to have pictures. I'll order one to carry it and use as a
> >> demo. I plan to finish my local design and use the same ship by
> >> september.
> >> 
> >> Cheers,
> >> 
> >> Fabian Rodriguez
> >> http://libreoffice.magicfab.ca
> >> 
> >> 
> >>