Big Thanks :) Re: off-list Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Good point.  Jorge is another classic example of a total star here.  


I've already mentioned Tim haven't i?  

Regards from 
Tom :)  






>
> From: jorge 
>To: Tom Davies  
>Cc: Virgil Arrington ; "users@global.libreoffice.org" 
> 
>Sent: Tuesday, 2 July 2013, 4:47
>Subject: Re: off-list Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 
>portable coming out?
> 
>
>+1
>
>El jue, 27-06-2013 a las 17:13 +0100, Tom Davies escribió:
>> Hi :)
>> There are certain names i keep noticing and saying thanks to but there are 
>> quite a few others that i never notice despite them putting in tons of hard 
>> work.  
>> 
>> 
>> I usually try to delete most LibreOffice emails but quite a few slip through 
>> but just did a quick search of your name and found you have been extremely 
>> active since at least Jan 2012.  So, well over a year without any thanks!  
>> 
>> 
>> So a BIG THANKS from me!! :)))
>> 
>> 
>> I wonder if it might be good to make a wiki-page list of people we think are 
>> owed a thanks.  I think i would want to include people that i don't 
>> personally get on with particularly well or even argue against a lot because 
>> we have all made LibreOffice what it is today and that result is superb.  
>> Other mailing lists, such as the devs and docs team have lists of their 
>> contributors, or their top contributors but we don't have anything like it 
>> yet.  
>> 
>> One reason i noticed this over-sight was the QA people wrote to me to ask 
>> how to get more people interested in their competition and i really didn't 
>> have a good answer.  I don't think i have the type of influence they were 
>> looking for.  Quite the opposite in fact.  However, they made just a couple 
>> more posts to this list and that seems to have generated fantastic results.  
>> 
>> So, good work to all!!  I hope you are having fun over there and maybe 
>> considered trying out a few other teams too.  Even if not then still many 
>> thanks for your work on this list.
>> Many thanks and regards from 
>> Tom :)  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> >
>> > From: Virgil Arrington 
>> >To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
>> >Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013, 1:45
>> >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming 
>> >out?
>> > 
>> >
>> >This question makes me wonder, just why there are so many LO versions and 
>> >frequent new releases. I can't keep up, and I find myself torn about 
>> >upgrading. I want the latest and greatest, but I've had problems with newer 
>> >versions resurrecting old bugs.
>> >
>> >I'm sure there's an overriding philosophy that has been adopted, but I 
>> >wonder if we might be better served with fewer new releases.
>> >
>> >Apache seems to have taken quite the opposite approach with no new releases 
>> >of AOO since its 3.4.1. Perhaps something somewhere between the two 
>> >extremes 
>> >might be nice.
>> >
>> >Virgil
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >-Original Message- 
>> >From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster
>> >Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 8:19 PM
>> >To: users@global.libreoffice.org
>> >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming 
>> >out?
>> >
>
>
>
>-- 
>Atentamente,
>
>Jorge Rodríguez
>
>
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Re: off-list Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[jorge]

+1

El jue, 27-06-2013 a las 17:13 +0100, Tom Davies escribió:
> Hi :)
> There are certain names i keep noticing and saying thanks to but there are 
> quite a few others that i never notice despite them putting in tons of hard 
> work.  
> 
> 
> I usually try to delete most LibreOffice emails but quite a few slip through 
> but just did a quick search of your name and found you have been extremely 
> active since at least Jan 2012.  So, well over a year without any thanks!  
> 
> 
> So a BIG THANKS from me!! :)))
> 
> 
> I wonder if it might be good to make a wiki-page list of people we think are 
> owed a thanks.  I think i would want to include people that i don't 
> personally get on with particularly well or even argue against a lot because 
> we have all made LibreOffice what it is today and that result is superb.  
> Other mailing lists, such as the devs and docs team have lists of their 
> contributors, or their top contributors but we don't have anything like it 
> yet.  
> 
> One reason i noticed this over-sight was the QA people wrote to me to ask how 
> to get more people interested in their competition and i really didn't have a 
> good answer.  I don't think i have the type of influence they were looking 
> for.  Quite the opposite in fact.  However, they made just a couple more 
> posts to this list and that seems to have generated fantastic results.  
> 
> So, good work to all!!  I hope you are having fun over there and maybe 
> considered trying out a few other teams too.  Even if not then still many 
> thanks for your work on this list.
> Many thanks and regards from 
> Tom :)  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >____________
> > From: Virgil Arrington 
> >To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
> >Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013, 1:45
> >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming 
> >out?
> > 
> >
> >This question makes me wonder, just why there are so many LO versions and 
> >frequent new releases. I can't keep up, and I find myself torn about 
> >upgrading. I want the latest and greatest, but I've had problems with newer 
> >versions resurrecting old bugs.
> >
> >I'm sure there's an overriding philosophy that has been adopted, but I 
> >wonder if we might be better served with fewer new releases.
> >
> >Apache seems to have taken quite the opposite approach with no new releases 
> >of AOO since its 3.4.1. Perhaps something somewhere between the two extremes 
> >might be nice.
> >
> >Virgil
> >
> >
> >
> >-Original Message- 
> >From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster
> >Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 8:19 PM
> >To: users@global.libreoffice.org
> >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming 
> >out?
> >
> >
> >Well, I do not really agree with the "bad deal".
> >
> >They need to spend their time "converting" the Windows version to the
> >"portable" version.  It takes some time.  So they pick and choose which
> >version they will send their time on.  LO 3.6.7 comes out soon, but they
> >will not make that version, since the 4.0.x line is out.  When 4.1.x
> >line comes out, they will be moving to that and not work any more on the
> >previous line.
> >
> >Sure, there are other "portable" software groups, but I only have dealt
> >with the PortableApps group, since TDF deals with them.  If another
> >group starts making a good version for LO, then maybe the Board might
> >want to look at them as well.  For me, I just go with the current
> >version that TDF/LO are listing on the download pages.
> >
> >Why would you want to run a portable version of LO when you have one
> >installed?
> >
> >As for versions that are optimized for slower systems, well anyone who
> >can deal with the compile/make process from the source code to binaries,
> >can do some basic optimizing to a specific system. Sometimes it take a
> >lot more.  Raspberry Pi developers have optimized LO to run better on
> >their system than the "standard" 32-bit Debian install.
> >
> >If you really think that TDF should look at the other portable app
> >groups, then you need to bring it up to one of the Board members - and
> >off the User list.  These types of discussions work best on the Discuss
> >List or some other list instead of the User list.
> >
> >
> >On 06/26/2013 06:52 PM, Pedro wrote:
> >> Hi Tim, all
> >>
> >> In my opinion TDF got a bad deal with the PortableApps

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[M Henri Day]

2013/6/30 Denis J Navas 

> LibreOffice has a configuration option to check by itself for new versions.
>
> The Portable LibreOffice, must be checked by the PortableApps platform.
>  And at your will, you can actualize your version or wait after some time,
> to give time to rise reports on the new version.
>

Instructions on how to check for updates, either automatically or manually,
are found on this webpage :  *
https://help.libreoffice.org/Common/Check_for_Updates*
.
However, on my machine running 64-bit Linux Mint 15 with LibreOffice
Version 4.0.4.2 (Build ID: 400m0(Build:2)) installed, no «Check for
updates» button under «Help», which would allow me to check manually is to
be found, nor can I select for automatic updating by selecting «Online
Update» via Tools → Options → LibreOffice ; no such alternative appears.
Could it be that this is due to the fact that I am using the Ubuntuised
version of LibO, as updated via the Ubuntu PPA (kudos, by the way, to the
developers who have taken upon themselves the task of updating there !) ?
Do others, who are not using the PPA to update LibreOffice, in fact have
access to these alternatives ?...

Henri

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Ahah.  Yes, it is not in the Ubuntu-ised versions and probably not on the 
direct "upstream" download for any Gnu&Linux.  It's only on the Windows 
version.  

Most programs seem to have their update thing in their "Help" menu so it would 
be good to have there too but i quite like it being so 'noticeable' [coughs].  
Even if it's a bit ambiguous and then doesn't quite do what you would expect 
when you do figure it out.  There is no reason i know of to have the feature in 
just one place as different places could point to the same actions.  

That is interesting to hear about the different icon styles.  It turns out that 
there are quite a selection that you can download to personalise your version 
of LibreOffice.  i haven't quite found out where yet.  

Regards from
Tom :)  






>
> From: M Henri Day 
>To: Tom Davies  
>Cc: Joel Madero ; Virgil Arrington 
>; "users@global.libreoffice.org" 
> 
>Sent: Friday, 28 June 2013, 13:43
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?
> 
>
>
>2013/6/27 Tom Davies 
>
>Hi :)
>>I'm on an Xp machine (well on the Windows side of a dual-boot machine) and LO 
>>4.0.3 has a tiny little green arrow on the far right at the top just under 
>>the minimise, window, close buttons.  When i wave the mouse arrow over it a 
>>tool-tips yellow bubble appears telling me an update is available.  
>>
>>Sadly when i click on that the magic doesn't happen.  It just opens a tab in 
>>Firefox taking me to the downloads page.  
>>
>>Something else i find odd about the UI is that sometimes the "Save" 
>>button/icon looks like a floppy-disk (anyone else remember them?) and 
>>sometimes has a more modern, errr green arrow again.  I was proudly boasting 
>>to someone that LO was so advanced that it was the 1st program to move away 
>>from using the floppy-disk icon and then he showed me it was still there. 
 G
>>
>>Anyway, getting back on-topic it seems the protable version has been released 
>>at last.  Florian did his magic tricks and it's appeared.  
>>Regards from 
>>Tom :)  
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>>
>>> From: M Henri Day 
>>>To: Tom Davies  
>>>Cc: Joel Madero ; Virgil Arrington 
>>>; "users@global.libreoffice.org" 
>>> 
>>>Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013, 17:15
>>>
>>>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming 
>>>out?
>>> 
>>>
>>>2013/6/27 Tom Davies 
>>>
>>>> Hi :)
>>>> Ok, that makes sense.  The problem now is to make the upgrade smoother so
>>>> it's easier to upgrade within a branch, eg from
>>>> 4.0.1 to
>>>> 4.0.2 and onwards.
>>>>
>>>> Preferably not completely automatic but easy enough so that users can
>>>> click on the upgrade button even if they don't have Super User / Admin
>>>> level privileges.  Like Firefox allows.
>>>>
>>>> At the moment i think people still have to download and do a fresh install
>>>>
 of the newer release even if it is in the same branch.
>>>>
>>>> I do get the impression that is what the devs are aiming for anyway.  The
>>>> little green arrow is fairly new.  At the moment it just lets you know
>>>> there is a new version to download but it looks like one day it will be
>>>> possible to just click on that and sit back to watch the magic.
>>>>
>>>> Regards from
>>>> Tom :)
>>>>
>>>
>>>Generally speaking, Tom, my experience is that one has to go to the
>>>LibreOffice website and download the latest and greatest step every time it
>>>is released ; it is rarely that I see an update notice and that little
>>>green arrow. The above holds true for Windows 7 and 8 ; on Linux Mint all I
>>>have to do is wait for the Ubuntu PPAs to get updated - it took perhaps a
>>>little more than a week after the 4.0.4.2 was released for it automatically
>>>to be installed over 4.0.3.3. Hitherto I'm ver impressed with it
 - it seems
>>>to load even more quickly than its predecessor. Kudos to the developers !...
>>>
>>>Henri
>>>
>
><...>
>
>Tom I've just finished upgrading 10 machines with different versions of 
>Windows - Win7 and Win8 - installed (on my Linux HDDs - Mint 15 and Ubuntu 
>12.04 - I let the Ubuntu PPA do the heavy lifting for me)

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[M Henri Day]

2013/6/27 Tom Davies 

> Hi :)
> I'm on an Xp machine (well on the Windows side of a dual-boot machine) and
> LO 4.0.3 has a tiny little green arrow on the far right at the top just
> under the minimise, window, close buttons.  When i wave the mouse arrow
> over it a tool-tips yellow bubble appears telling me an update is
> available.
>
> Sadly when i click on that the magic doesn't happen.  It just opens a tab
> in Firefox taking me to the downloads page.
>
> Something else i find odd about the UI is that sometimes the "Save"
> button/icon looks like a floppy-disk (anyone else remember them?) and
> sometimes has a more modern, errr green arrow again.  I was proudly
> boasting to someone that LO was so advanced that it was the 1st program to
> move away from using the floppy-disk icon and then he showed me it was
> still there.  G
>
> Anyway, getting back on-topic it seems the protable version has been
> released at last.  Florian did his magic tricks and it's appeared.
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>
>
>   --
>  *From:* M Henri Day 
> *To:* Tom Davies 
> *Cc:* Joel Madero ; Virgil Arrington <
> cuyfa...@hotmail.com>; "users@global.libreoffice.org" <
> users@global.libreoffice.org>
> *Sent:* Thursday, 27 June 2013, 17:15
>
> *Subject:* Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable
> coming out?
>
> 2013/6/27 Tom Davies 
>
> > Hi :)
> > Ok, that makes sense.  The problem now is to make the upgrade smoother so
> > it's easier to upgrade within a branch, eg from
> > 4.0.1 to
> > 4.0.2 and onwards.
> >
> > Preferably not completely automatic but easy enough so that users can
> > click on the upgrade button even if they don't have Super User / Admin
> > level privileges.  Like Firefox allows.
> >
> > At the moment i think people still have to download and do a fresh
> install
> > of the newer release even if it is in the same branch.
> >
> > I do get the impression that is what the devs are aiming for anyway.  The
> > little green arrow is fairly new.  At the moment it just lets you know
> > there is a new version to download but it looks like one day it will be
> > possible to just click on that and sit back to watch the magic.
> >
> > Regards from
> > Tom :)
> >
>
> Generally speaking, Tom, my experience is that one has to go to the
> LibreOffice website and download the latest and greatest step every time it
> is released ; it is rarely that I see an update notice and that little
> green arrow. The above holds true for Windows 7 and 8 ; on Linux Mint all I
> have to do is wait for the Ubuntu PPAs to get updated - it took perhaps a
> little more than a week after the 4.0.4.2 was released for it automatically
> to be installed over 4.0.3.3. Hitherto I'm ver impressed with it - it seems
> to load even more quickly than its predecessor. Kudos to the developers
> !...
>
> Henri
>
>
<...>

Tom I've just finished upgrading 10 machines with different versions of
Windows - Win7 and Win8 - installed (on my Linux HDDs - Mint 15 and Ubuntu
12.04 - I let the Ubuntu PPA do the heavy lifting for me) and the arrow you
mention above - which I do remember having seen earlier, but not
consistently , never appeared. I'd like to suggest the following for the
consideration of the developers : placing a link to a «Check/Search for
updates» feature under «Help» in the LO menu bar. This would correspond to
received usage - and thus be «intuitive» to many users - and facilitate
checking for updates even if, as in my case, the arrow that is supposed to
appear under the window-management buttons should fail to do so

Henri

PS : On Linux Mint 15 with the Cinnamon desktop interface, the «Save» and
«Save as» icons are an A4 sheet with an arrow pointing downwards to the
right. Easy to understand (and the tool tip does say «Save»).  Agree with
you that it's high time the floppy disk icon was replaced - when I ask my
retirees what they think it is, they almost invariably reply : «an
old-fashioned TV»

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

Just to let you all know. . .

The original post asked when will 4.0.4 Portable come out

Well, they are now listed on the PortableApp site.

http://portableapps.com/apps/office/libreoffice_portable



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I'm on an Xp machine (well on the Windows side of a dual-boot machine) and LO 
4.0.3 has a tiny little green arrow on the far right at the top just under the 
minimise, window, close buttons.  When i wave the mouse arrow over it a 
tool-tips yellow bubble appears telling me an update is available.  

Sadly when i click on that the magic doesn't happen.  It just opens a tab in 
Firefox taking me to the downloads page.  

Something else i find odd about the UI is that sometimes the "Save" button/icon 
looks like a floppy-disk (anyone else remember them?) and sometimes has a more 
modern, errr green arrow again.  I was proudly boasting to someone that LO was 
so advanced that it was the 1st program to move away from using the floppy-disk 
icon and then he showed me it was still there.  G

Anyway, getting back on-topic it seems the protable version has been released 
at last.  Florian did his magic tricks and it's appeared.  
Regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: M Henri Day 
>To: Tom Davies  
>Cc: Joel Madero ; Virgil Arrington 
>; "users@global.libreoffice.org" 
> 
>Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013, 17:15
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?
> 
>
>2013/6/27 Tom Davies 
>
>> Hi :)
>> Ok, that makes sense.  The problem now is to make the upgrade smoother so
>> it's easier to upgrade within a branch, eg from
>> 4.0.1 to
>> 4.0.2 and onwards.
>>
>> Preferably not completely automatic but easy enough so that users can
>> click on the upgrade button even if they don't have Super User / Admin
>> level privileges.  Like Firefox allows.
>>
>> At the moment i think people still have to download and do a fresh install
>> of the newer release even if it is in the same branch.
>>
>> I do get the impression that is what the devs are aiming for anyway.  The
>> little green arrow is fairly new.  At the moment it just lets you know
>> there is a new version to download but it looks like one day it will be
>> possible to just click on that and sit back to watch the magic.
>>
>> Regards from
>> Tom :)
>>
>
>Generally speaking, Tom, my experience is that one has to go to the
>LibreOffice website and download the latest and greatest step every time it
>is released ; it is rarely that I see an update notice and that little
>green arrow. The above holds true for Windows 7 and 8 ; on Linux Mint all I
>have to do is wait for the Ubuntu PPAs to get updated - it took perhaps a
>little more than a week after the 4.0.4.2 was released for it automatically
>to beinstalled over 4.0.3.3. Hitherto I'm ver impressed with it - it seems
>to load even more quickly than its predecessor. Kudos to the developers !...
>
>Henri
>
>
>> >
>> > From: Joel Madero 
>> >To: Virgil Arrington 
>> >Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org
>> >Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013, 15:43
>> >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming
>> out?
>> >
>> >
>> >On 06/26/2013 05:45 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:
>> >> This question makes me wonder, just why there are so many LO versions
>> >> and frequent new releases. I can't keep up, and I find myself torn
>> >> about upgrading. I want the latest and greatest, but I've had problems
>> >> with newer versions resurrecting old bugs.
>> >>
>> >> I'm sure there's an overriding philosophy that has been adopted, but I
>> >> wonder if we might be better served with fewer new releases.
>> >>
>> >> Apache seems to have taken quite the opposite approach with no new
>> >> releases of AOO since its 3.4.1. Perhaps something somewhere between
>> >> the two extremes might be nice.
>> >
>> >One of our devs is going to do a bit about this after the EOL of 3.6 but
>> >this chart should help:
>> >
>> >https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/2/2c/LibOReleaseLifecycle.png
>> >
>> >also this might help a little,
>> >
>> >https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2002-June/msg00041.html
>> >
>> >There is a rationale behind our release schedule. Ultimately just
>> >because the version is out, doesn't mean users have to upgrade, each
>> >release has a purpose.
>> >
>> >
>> >Warm Regards,
>> >Joel
>>
>
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off-list Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
There are certain names i keep noticing and saying thanks to but there are 
quite a few others that i never notice despite them putting in tons of hard 
work.  


I usually try to delete most LibreOffice emails but quite a few slip through 
but just did a quick search of your name and found you have been extremely 
active since at least Jan 2012.  So, well over a year without any thanks!  


So a BIG THANKS from me!! :)))


I wonder if it might be good to make a wiki-page list of people we think are 
owed a thanks.  I think i would want to include people that i don't personally 
get on with particularly well or even argue against a lot because we have all 
made LibreOffice what it is today and that result is superb.  Other mailing 
lists, such as the devs and docs team have lists of their contributors, or 
their top contributors but we don't have anything like it yet.  

One reason i noticed this over-sight was the QA people wrote to me to ask how 
to get more people interested in their competition and i really didn't have a 
good answer.  I don't think i have the type of influence they were looking for. 
 Quite the opposite in fact.  However, they made just a couple more posts to 
this list and that seems to have generated fantastic results.  

So, good work to all!!  I hope you are having fun over there and maybe 
considered trying out a few other teams too.  Even if not then still many 
thanks for your work on this list.
Many thanks and regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: Virgil Arrington 
>To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013, 1:45
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?
> 
>
>This question makes me wonder, just why there are so many LO versions and 
>frequent new releases. I can't keep up, and I find myself torn about 
>upgrading. I want the latest and greatest, but I've had problems with newer 
>versions resurrecting old bugs.
>
>I'm sure there's an overriding philosophy that has been adopted, but I 
>wonder if we might be better served with fewer new releases.
>
>Apache seems to have taken quite the opposite approach with no new releases 
>of AOO since its 3.4.1. Perhaps something somewhere between the two extremes 
>might be nice.
>
>Virgil
>
>
>
>-Original Message- 
>From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster
>Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 8:19 PM
>To: users@global.libreoffice.org
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming 
>out?
>
>
>Well, I do not really agree with the "bad deal".
>
>They need to spend their time "converting" the Windows version to the
>"portable" version.  It takes some time.  So they pick and choose which
>version they will send their time on.  LO 3.6.7 comes out soon, but they
>will not make that version, since the 4.0.x line is out.  When 4.1.x
>line comes out, they will be moving to that and not work any more on the
>previous line.
>
>Sure, there are other "portable" software groups, but I only have dealt
>with the PortableApps group, since TDF deals with them.  If another
>group starts making a good version for LO, then maybe the Board might
>want to look at them as well.  For me, I just go with the current
>version that TDF/LO are listing on the download pages.
>
>Why would you want to run a portable version of LO when you have one
>installed?
>
>As for versions that are optimized for slower systems, well anyone who
>can deal with the compile/make process from the source code to binaries,
>can do some basic optimizing to a specific system. Sometimes it take a
>lot more.  Raspberry Pi developers have optimized LO to run better on
>their system than the "standard" 32-bit Debian install.
>
>If you really think that TDF should look at the other portable app
>groups, then you need to bring it up to one of the Board members - and
>off the User list.  These types of discussions work best on the Discuss
>List or some other list instead of the User list.
>
>
>On 06/26/2013 06:52 PM, Pedro wrote:
>> Hi Tim, all
>>
>> In my opinion TDF got a bad deal with the PortableApps people...
>>
>> They only create the versions they feel like and they drop a branch the
>> minute a new release is out from a newer branch. Even worse: they don't
>> listen to requests (maybe they don't have the manpower but they aren't
>> interested in voluntaries either...).
>>
>> The guys at WinPenPack create a new portable versions at the same pace as
>> the regular LO. And they missed version 3.6.6 but listened to my request 
>> on
>> their Forum.
>>
>> For someone working on QA it is essential t

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[M Henri Day]

2013/6/27 Tom Davies 

> Hi :)
> Ok, that makes sense.  The problem now is to make the upgrade smoother so
> it's easier to upgrade within a branch, eg from
> 4.0.1 to
> 4.0.2 and onwards.
>
> Preferably not completely automatic but easy enough so that users can
> click on the upgrade button even if they don't have Super User / Admin
> level privileges.  Like Firefox allows.
>
> At the moment i think people still have to download and do a fresh install
> of the newer release even if it is in the same branch.
>
> I do get the impression that is what the devs are aiming for anyway.  The
> little green arrow is fairly new.  At the moment it just lets you know
> there is a new version to download but it looks like one day it will be
> possible to just click on that and sit back to watch the magic.
>
> Regards from
> Tom :)
>

Generally speaking, Tom, my experience is that one has to go to the
LibreOffice website and download the latest and greatest step every time it
is released ; it is rarely that I see an update notice and that little
green arrow. The above holds true for Windows 7 and 8 ; on Linux Mint all I
have to do is wait for the Ubuntu PPAs to get updated - it took perhaps a
little more than a week after the 4.0.4.2 was released for it automatically
to beinstalled over 4.0.3.3. Hitherto I'm ver impressed with it - it seems
to load even more quickly than its predecessor. Kudos to the developers !...

Henri


> >
> > From: Joel Madero 
> >To: Virgil Arrington 
> >Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org
> >Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013, 15:43
> >Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming
> out?
> >
> >
> >On 06/26/2013 05:45 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:
> >> This question makes me wonder, just why there are so many LO versions
> >> and frequent new releases. I can't keep up, and I find myself torn
> >> about upgrading. I want the latest and greatest, but I've had problems
> >> with newer versions resurrecting old bugs.
> >>
> >> I'm sure there's an overriding philosophy that has been adopted, but I
> >> wonder if we might be better served with fewer new releases.
> >>
> >> Apache seems to have taken quite the opposite approach with no new
> >> releases of AOO since its 3.4.1. Perhaps something somewhere between
> >> the two extremes might be nice.
> >
> >One of our devs is going to do a bit about this after the EOL of 3.6 but
> >this chart should help:
> >
> >https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/2/2c/LibOReleaseLifecycle.png
> >
> >also this might help a little,
> >
> >https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2002-June/msg00041.html
> >
> >There is a rationale behind our release schedule. Ultimately just
> >because the version is out, doesn't mean users have to upgrade, each
> >release has a purpose.
> >
> >
> >Warm Regards,
> >Joel
>

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
Ok, that makes sense.  The problem now is to make the upgrade smoother so it's 
easier to upgrade within a branch, eg from
4.0.1 to 
4.0.2 and onwards.  

Preferably not completely automatic but easy enough so that users can click on 
the upgrade button even if they don't have Super User / Admin level privileges. 
 Like Firefox allows.  

At the moment i think people still have to download and do a fresh install of 
the newer release even if it is in the same branch.  

I do get the impression that is what the devs are aiming for anyway.  The 
little green arrow is fairly new.  At the moment it just lets you know there is 
a new version to download but it looks like one day it will be possible to just 
click on that and sit back to watch the magic.

Regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: Joel Madero 
>To: Virgil Arrington  
>Cc: users@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013, 15:43
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?
> 
>
>On 06/26/2013 05:45 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:
>> This question makes me wonder, just why there are so many LO versions 
>> and frequent new releases. I can't keep up, and I find myself torn 
>> about upgrading. I want the latest and greatest, but I've had problems 
>> with newer versions resurrecting old bugs.
>>
>> I'm sure there's an overriding philosophy that has been adopted, but I 
>> wonder if we might be better served with fewer new releases.
>>
>> Apache seems to have taken quite the opposite approach with no new 
>> releases of AOO since its 3.4.1. Perhaps something somewhere between 
>> the two extremes might be nice.
>
>One of our devs is going to do a bit about this after the EOL of 3.6 but 
>this chart should help:
>
>https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/2/2c/LibOReleaseLifecycle.png
>
>also this might help a little,
>
>https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2002-June/msg00041.html
>
>There is a rationale behind our release schedule. Ultimately just 
>because the version is out, doesn't mean users have to upgrade, each 
>release has a purpose.
>
>
>Warm Regards,
>Joel
>
>-- 
>To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
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>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)
I had no idea there were different organisations doing the same thing.  I don't 
know which is best but i think 

http://sourceforge.net/projects/winpenpack/files/X-LibreOffice/releases/

is worth looking into.  

Unfortunately i am lucky enough to be able to boot into Gnu&Linux almost 
everywhere i go now.  There is a place i am not supposed to be able to and they 
have quite harsh sounding warning notices about not messing around but i 
'accidentally' had my usb-stick in the machine and it went straight into the 
LiveCd/Usb version of Ubuntu.  It was very slow though, as it's an old usb 
stick.  So it might be worth experimenting with.  

Thanks and regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: Pedro 
>To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013, 10:03
>Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?
> 
>
>Hi Virgil, all
>
>
>Virgil Arrington wrote
>> Apache seems to have taken quite the opposite approach with no new
>> releases 
>> of AOO since its 3.4.1. Perhaps something somewhere between the two
>> extremes 
>> might be nice.
>
>I used to have the same opinion as you. But the incredible progress of
>LibreOffice in a single year convinced me otherwise. 
>
>LO is following a time based release method. This means that it is moving
>forward fast and some bugs do slide in...
>
>However the improvement in quality, stability and features make it almost on
>par with *current* commercial alternatives. A year ago LO was comparable to
>MS Office 2003. Today it compares with Office 2010 and in some areas it is
>even better (though not in speed/performance)
>
>Fear of updating is where Portable versions are also excellent. You can get
>X-LibreOffice 4.0.4 today and test it against your stable version. If there
>are regressions you can skip this version (and ideally report the bug at
>Bugzilla ;) ) and wait for the next one that solves it. If there are no
>regressions then you can install the new version.
>
>If you have the freedom to test any version without compromising your stable
>install, isn't that great?
>
>Pedro
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context: 
>http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/any-word-about-4-0-4-portable-coming-out-tp4063162p4063237.html
>Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[Joel Madero]

On 06/26/2013 05:45 PM, Virgil Arrington wrote:
This question makes me wonder, just why there are so many LO versions 
and frequent new releases. I can't keep up, and I find myself torn 
about upgrading. I want the latest and greatest, but I've had problems 
with newer versions resurrecting old bugs.


I'm sure there's an overriding philosophy that has been adopted, but I 
wonder if we might be better served with fewer new releases.


Apache seems to have taken quite the opposite approach with no new 
releases of AOO since its 3.4.1. Perhaps something somewhere between 
the two extremes might be nice.


One of our devs is going to do a bit about this after the EOL of 3.6 but 
this chart should help:


https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/images/2/2c/LibOReleaseLifecycle.png

also this might help a little,

https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gnome-hackers/2002-June/msg00041.html

There is a rationale behind our release schedule. Ultimately just 
because the version is out, doesn't mean users have to upgrade, each 
release has a purpose.



Warm Regards,
Joel

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)  
I agree with both sides of this argument/discussion.  I do really like the 
fast-paced development of LibreOffice.  Especially as it follows decades of 
being stuck in a quagmire.  

That is why i suggest the approach of letting fast paced development continue 
as it is and having a series of separate releases, perhaps once every 2 years 
or so, with only security-patches and bug-patches being back-ported.  

However the idea has been dismissed by the BoD as being unfeasible.  I am not 
quite sure how Ubuntu manages to do it if it can't be done.  


Of course there is another way to view this.  If you see AOO as being the LTS 
version of LibreOffice then we have it covered already.  
Regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: Pedro 
>To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013, 10:03
>Subject: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?
> 
>
>Hi Virgil, all
>
>
>Virgil Arrington wrote
>> Apache seems to have taken quite the opposite approach with no new
>> releases 
>> of AOO since its 3.4.1. Perhaps something somewhere between the two
>> extremes 
>> might be nice.
>
>I used to have the same opinion as you. But the incredible progress of
>LibreOffice in a single year convinced me otherwise. 
>
>LO is following a time based release method. This means that it is moving
>forward fast and some bugs do slide in...
>
>However the improvement in quality, stability and features make it almost on
>par with *current* commercial alternatives. A year ago LO was comparable to
>MS Office 2003. Today it compares with Office 2010 and in some areas it is
>even better (though not in speed/performance)
>
>Fear of updating is where Portable versions are also excellent. You can get
>X-LibreOffice 4.0.4 today and test it against your stable version. If there
>are regressions you can skip this version (and ideally report the bug at
>Bugzilla ;) ) and wait for the next one that solves it. If there are no
>regressions then you can install the new version.
>
>If you have the freedom to test any version without compromising your stable
>install, isn't that great?
>
>Pedro
>
>
>
>--
>View this message in context: 
>http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/any-word-about-4-0-4-portable-coming-out-tp4063162p4063237.html
>Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
>
>-- 
>To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
>Problems? http://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
>Posting guidelines + more: http://wiki.documentfoundation.org/Netiquette
>List archive: http://listarchives.libreoffice.org/global/users/
>All messages sent to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
>
>
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[Tom Davies]

Hi :)  
+1
Well, something similar.  

Sometimes an entire branch goes by without my having installed and used any in 
it.  The 3.4.x and 3.6.x passed me by almost completely.  I keep meaning to 
join in with QA early in a branch's release-cycle but typically end up 
installing about half-way through.  Usually around the x.x.4 which is typically 
where it becomes a lot more stable.  Somewhat unusually I managed to get the 
4.0.1 onto all the machines at work but that was very exceptional.  

I suspect the 4.1.0 is going to be very stable too as a lot of people have done 
a lot of great work in the QA competition that is still going on.  

Debian make the mistake of having only their old versions declared officially 
stable.  Some other projects do  something similar.  It makes them feel old and 
stale.  Ubuntu put extra effort into a big new "LTS" release every 2 years and 
makes sure there is always plenty of exciting new features, ultra latest 
versions of programs and some complete overhaul of something.  Then for 3 years 
(now 5) afterwards they ensure that all bug-patches, fixes and security updates 
are back-ported to the LTSes.  It gives corporate users confidence in the 
system.  

Regards from 
Tom :)  





>
> From: Virgil Arrington 
>To: users@global.libreoffice.org 
>Sent: Thursday, 27 June 2013, 1:45
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?
> 
>
>This question makes me wonder, just why there are so many LO versions and 
>frequent new releases. I can't keep up, and I find myself torn about 
>upgrading. I want the latest and greatest, but I've had problems with newer 
>versions resurrecting old bugs.
>
>I'm sure there's an overriding philosophy that has been adopted, but I 
>wonder if we might be better served with fewer new releases.
>
>Apache seems to have taken quite the opposite approach with no new releases 
>of AOO since its 3.4.1. Perhaps something somewhere between the two extremes 
>might be nice.
>
>Virgil
>
>
>
>-Original Message- 
>From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster
>Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 8:19 PM
>To: users@global.libreoffice.org
>Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming 
>out?
>
>
>Well, I do not really agree with the "bad deal".
>
>They need to spend their time "converting" the Windows version to the
>"portable" version.  It takes some time.  So they pick and choose which
>version they will send their time on.  LO 3.6.7 comes out soon, but they
>will not make that version, since the 4.0.x line is out.  When 4.1.x
>line comes out, they will be moving to that and not work any more on the
>previous line.
>
>Sure, there are other "portable" software groups, but I only have dealt
>with the PortableApps group, since TDF deals with them.  If another
>group starts making a good version for LO, then maybe the Board might
>want to look at them as well.  For me, I just go with the current
>version that TDF/LO are listing on the download pages.
>
>Why would you want to run a portable version of LO when you have one
>installed?
>
>As for versions that are optimized for slower systems, well anyone who
>can deal with the compile/make process from the source code to binaries,
>can do some basic optimizing to a specific system. Sometimes it take a
>lot more.  Raspberry Pi developers have optimized LO to run better on
>their system than the "standard" 32-bit Debian install.
>
>If you really think that TDF should look at the other portable app
>groups, then you need to bring it up to one of the Board members - and
>off the User list.  These types of discussions work best on the Discuss
>List or some other list instead of the User list.
>
>
>On 06/26/2013 06:52 PM, Pedro wrote:
>> Hi Tim, all
>>
>> In my opinion TDF got a bad deal with the PortableApps people...
>>
>> They only create the versions they feel like and they drop a branch the
>> minute a new release is out from a newer branch. Even worse: they don't
>> listen to requests (maybe they don't have the manpower but they aren't
>> interested in voluntaries either...).
>>
>> The guys at WinPenPack create a new portable versions at the same pace as
>> the regular LO. And they missed version 3.6.6 but listened to my request 
>> on
>> their Forum.
>>
>> For someone working on QA it is essential to have the final version on 
>> each
>> branch. WinPenPack has all of them.
>>
>> Another advantage is that you can run all versions simultaneously (if you
>> wish). The PortableApps version can not be executed while the installed
>> ve

Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[Virgil Arrington]

This question makes me wonder, just why there are so many LO versions and 
frequent new releases. I can't keep up, and I find myself torn about 
upgrading. I want the latest and greatest, but I've had problems with newer 
versions resurrecting old bugs.


I'm sure there's an overriding philosophy that has been adopted, but I 
wonder if we might be better served with fewer new releases.


Apache seems to have taken quite the opposite approach with no new releases 
of AOO since its 3.4.1. Perhaps something somewhere between the two extremes 
might be nice.


Virgil



-Original Message- 
From: Kracked_P_P---webmaster

Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 8:19 PM
To: users@global.libreoffice.org
Subject: Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming 
out?



Well, I do not really agree with the "bad deal".

They need to spend their time "converting" the Windows version to the
"portable" version.  It takes some time.  So they pick and choose which
version they will send their time on.  LO 3.6.7 comes out soon, but they
will not make that version, since the 4.0.x line is out.  When 4.1.x
line comes out, they will be moving to that and not work any more on the
previous line.

Sure, there are other "portable" software groups, but I only have dealt
with the PortableApps group, since TDF deals with them.  If another
group starts making a good version for LO, then maybe the Board might
want to look at them as well.  For me, I just go with the current
version that TDF/LO are listing on the download pages.

Why would you want to run a portable version of LO when you have one
installed?

As for versions that are optimized for slower systems, well anyone who
can deal with the compile/make process from the source code to binaries,
can do some basic optimizing to a specific system. Sometimes it take a
lot more.  Raspberry Pi developers have optimized LO to run better on
their system than the "standard" 32-bit Debian install.

If you really think that TDF should look at the other portable app
groups, then you need to bring it up to one of the Board members - and
off the User list.  These types of discussions work best on the Discuss
List or some other list instead of the User list.


On 06/26/2013 06:52 PM, Pedro wrote:

Hi Tim, all

In my opinion TDF got a bad deal with the PortableApps people...

They only create the versions they feel like and they drop a branch the
minute a new release is out from a newer branch. Even worse: they don't
listen to requests (maybe they don't have the manpower but they aren't
interested in voluntaries either...).

The guys at WinPenPack create a new portable versions at the same pace as
the regular LO. And they missed version 3.6.6 but listened to my request 
on

their Forum.

For someone working on QA it is essential to have the final version on 
each

branch. WinPenPack has all of them.

Another advantage is that you can run all versions simultaneously (if you
wish). The PortableApps version can not be executed while the installed
version is running (I can't remember if it even runs when another portable
version is running).

Finally the WinPenPack binaries seem to be somewhat optimized because they
run faster on slow computers (like my netbook).

Conclusion: I highly recommend X-LibreOffice ;)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/winpenpack/files/X-LibreOffice/releases/

BTW X-LibreOffice version 4.0.4 is available since June 19th...

Just my 2 cents ;)



--
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http://nabble.documentfoundation.org/any-word-about-4-0-4-portable-coming-out-tp4063162p4063198.html

Sent from the Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com.




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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: any word about 4.0.4 portable coming out?

[Kracked_P_P---webmaster]

Well, I do not really agree with the "bad deal".

They need to spend their time "converting" the Windows version to the 
"portable" version.  It takes some time.  So they pick and choose which 
version they will send their time on.  LO 3.6.7 comes out soon, but they 
will not make that version, since the 4.0.x line is out.  When 4.1.x 
line comes out, they will be moving to that and not work any more on the 
previous line.


Sure, there are other "portable" software groups, but I only have dealt 
with the PortableApps group, since TDF deals with them.  If another 
group starts making a good version for LO, then maybe the Board might 
want to look at them as well.  For me, I just go with the current 
version that TDF/LO are listing on the download pages.


Why would you want to run a portable version of LO when you have one 
installed?


As for versions that are optimized for slower systems, well anyone who 
can deal with the compile/make process from the source code to binaries, 
can do some basic optimizing to a specific system. Sometimes it take a 
lot more.  Raspberry Pi developers have optimized LO to run better on 
their system than the "standard" 32-bit Debian install.


If you really think that TDF should look at the other portable app 
groups, then you need to bring it up to one of the Board members - and 
off the User list.  These types of discussions work best on the Discuss 
List or some other list instead of the User list.



On 06/26/2013 06:52 PM, Pedro wrote:

Hi Tim, all

In my opinion TDF got a bad deal with the PortableApps people...

They only create the versions they feel like and they drop a branch the
minute a new release is out from a newer branch. Even worse: they don't
listen to requests (maybe they don't have the manpower but they aren't
interested in voluntaries either...).

The guys at WinPenPack create a new portable versions at the same pace as
the regular LO. And they missed version 3.6.6 but listened to my request on
their Forum.

For someone working on QA it is essential to have the final version on each
branch. WinPenPack has all of them.

Another advantage is that you can run all versions simultaneously (if you
wish). The PortableApps version can not be executed while the installed
version is running (I can't remember if it even runs when another portable
version is running).

Finally the WinPenPack binaries seem to be somewhat optimized because they
run faster on slow computers (like my netbook).

Conclusion: I highly recommend X-LibreOffice ;)

http://sourceforge.net/projects/winpenpack/files/X-LibreOffice/releases/

BTW X-LibreOffice version 4.0.4 is available since June 19th...

Just my 2 cents ;)



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