Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: insert non-breaking semi-space

2019-06-17 Thread Luuk 


On 16-6-2019 23:47, Dave Howorth wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 22:09:12 +0200
Luuk  wrote:


But, to /me and i am only talking about Windows here, as long as the
key in mentioned here
(https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/12445/windows-keyboard-shortcuts)
than i call it universal 

Well, as I never use Windoze, I don't call it universal :)

If was talking about 'Windows'.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: insert non-breaking semi-space

2019-06-16 Thread Dave Howorth 
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 22:09:12 +0200
Luuk  wrote:

> But, to /me and i am only talking about Windows here, as long as the
> key in mentioned here 
> (https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/12445/windows-keyboard-shortcuts) 
> than i call it universal 

Well, as I never use Windoze, I don't call it universal :)

So it seems you're suggesting a different menu structure under
different operating systems? I'm not sure that's a desirable goal.

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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: insert non-breaking semi-space

2019-06-16 Thread Luuk 


On 16-6-2019 16:36, Dave Howorth wrote:

On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 08:41:42 +0200
Luuk  wrote:
  

Thanks for the explanation.

There are other function which are useless in the menu, like i.e.
CTRL+C. Most (read 'all') users will use their keyboard.

Not true. Copy does not have a universal accelerator unfortunately,
sometimes it is Shift+Ctrl+C or other things. So I sometimes use the
menu in applications that I'm not completely familiar with.


I knew someone would 'complain' about this statement 

Luckily you gave an example which i never came to use (AFAIK), and 
luckily you did not say Ctrl+Insert which still works (most of the 
times) under Windows because of legacy.


But, to /me and i am only talking about Windows here, as long as the key 
in mentioned here 
(https://support.microsoft.com/en-ca/help/12445/windows-keyboard-shortcuts) 
than i call it universal 




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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: insert non-breaking semi-space

2019-06-16 Thread Luuk 


On 16-6-2019 17:01, Johnny Rosenberg wrote:

Den sön 16 juni 2019 kl 08:43 skrev Luuk :



There are other function which are useless in the menu, like i.e.
CTRL+C. Most (read 'all') users will use their keyboard.


That's not my experience. I'd rather say that most user's will use the
right click menu, only a few (like myself) use the keyboard for that. It's
very frustrating to look at. People are writing and they need to copy some
text, they move their hand to the mouse and it all takes like forever.
Those users of computer must be dumb. They have a tool which with they 
can do their job quickly, and than they start using a  mouse to copy.


Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: insert non-breaking semi-space

2019-06-16 Thread Johnny Rosenberg 
Den sön 16 juni 2019 kl 16:37 skrev Dave Howorth :

> On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 08:41:42 +0200
> Luuk  wrote:
>
> > On 16-6-2019 05:59, V Stuart Foote wrote:
> > > Luuk wrote
> > >> Why did this option not get a 'reserverd place in the menu' ?
> > >> together with the shortcut-key reference (
> > >> 
> > >> +X) ?
> > >>
> > >> An option like
> > >> 
> > >> +C is only known to all people (more than 75 % ??),
> > >> because the shortcut key is next to it in the menu!
> > > Hmm, interesting question.  The BZ tdf#73691 sheds no light, and I
> > > can't remember any discussion of adding it to a menu. But it was
> > > prominently advertised in the release notes for 5.1
> > > <
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/5.1#Unicode_character_input_with_Alt.2BX
> >
> > >
> > > The actual .uno:UnicodeNotationToggle command is available to
> > > assign in Customization receiving default en-US name in
> > > Customization of "Toggle Unicode Notation" and can be added to
> > > Menu, Toolbars, and Context menu. It shows for LibreOffice globally
> > > as +x -- Command Name and the keyboard shortcut are localized
> > > and configured by os.
> > >
> > >   I could possibly see it assigned to the Standard toolbar,
> > > adjacent to the Special character dialog button.
> > > But, I'm not sure how it could be ussed from menu, and which menu
> > > -- Insert, Format or even Tools -- would hold it. Checked, and it
> > > does _not_ appear on any MS Office menus.
> > >
> > > So kind of seems the enhancement of the BZ issue was fully
> > > implemented--with no functional reason to add it to a menu just to
> > > expose the shortcut.
> > >
> > > Stuart
> > >
> > Thanks for the explanation.
> >
> > There are other function which are useless in the menu, like i.e.
> > CTRL+C. Most (read 'all') users will use their keyboard.
>
> Not true. Copy does not have a universal accelerator unfortunately,
> sometimes it is Shift+Ctrl+C or other things.


How often does that happen? I have only seen it in one kind of application,
and that's in virtual terminals, since Ctrl+c usually is used for
cancelling there.


Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg


> So I sometimes use the
> menu in applications that I'm not completely familiar with.
>
> > About the position of 'ToglleUnicodeNotation' in the menu (if that
> > ever becomes an issue ),  the 'edit' menu is a better place,
> > because it's not inserting something.
> >
> >
> > Luuk
> >
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: insert non-breaking semi-space

2019-06-16 Thread Johnny Rosenberg 
Den sön 16 juni 2019 kl 08:43 skrev Luuk :

>
> On 16-6-2019 05:59, V Stuart Foote wrote:
> > Luuk wrote
> >> Why did this option not get a 'reserverd place in the menu' ? together
> >> with the shortcut-key reference (
> >> 
> >> +X) ?
> >>
> >> An option like
> >> 
> >> +C is only known to all people (more than 75 % ??),
> >> because the shortcut key is next to it in the menu!
> > Hmm, interesting question.  The BZ tdf#73691 sheds no light, and I can't
> > remember any discussion of adding it to a menu. But it was prominently
> > advertised in the release notes for 5.1
> > <
> https://wiki.documentfoundation.org/ReleaseNotes/5.1#Unicode_character_input_with_Alt.2BX
> >
> >
> > The actual .uno:UnicodeNotationToggle command is available to assign in
> > Customization receiving default en-US name in Customization of "Toggle
> > Unicode Notation" and can be added to Menu, Toolbars, and Context menu.
> It
> > shows for LibreOffice globally as +x -- Command Name and the
> keyboard
> > shortcut are localized and configured by os.
> >
> >   I could possibly see it assigned to the Standard toolbar, adjacent to
> the
> > Special character dialog button.
> > But, I'm not sure how it could be ussed from menu, and which menu --
> Insert,
> > Format or even Tools -- would hold it. Checked, and it does _not_ appear
> on
> > any MS Office menus.
> >
> > So kind of seems the enhancement of the BZ issue was fully
> implemented--with
> > no functional reason to add it to a menu just to expose the shortcut.
> >
> > Stuart
> >
> Thanks for the explanation.
>
> There are other function which are useless in the menu, like i.e.
> CTRL+C. Most (read 'all') users will use their keyboard.
>

That's not my experience. I'd rather say that most user's will use the
right click menu, only a few (like myself) use the keyboard for that. It's
very frustrating to look at. People are writing and they need to copy some
text, they move their hand to the mouse and it all takes like forever.


Kind regards

Johnny Rosenberg


>
> About the position of 'ToglleUnicodeNotation' in the menu (if that ever
> becomes an issue ),  the 'edit' menu is a better place, because it's
> not inserting something.
>
>
> Luuk
>
>
>
> --
> To unsubscribe e-mail to: users+unsubscr...@global.libreoffice.org
> Problems?
> https://www.libreoffice.org/get-help/mailing-lists/how-to-unsubscribe/
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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: insert non-breaking semi-space

2019-06-16 Thread Dave Howorth 
On Sun, 16 Jun 2019 08:41:42 +0200
Luuk  wrote:

> On 16-6-2019 05:59, V Stuart Foote wrote:
> > Luuk wrote  
> >> Why did this option not get a 'reserverd place in the menu' ?
> >> together with the shortcut-key reference (
> >> 
> >> +X) ?
> >>
> >> An option like
> >> 
> >> +C is only known to all people (more than 75 % ??),
> >> because the shortcut key is next to it in the menu!  
> > Hmm, interesting question.  The BZ tdf#73691 sheds no light, and I
> > can't remember any discussion of adding it to a menu. But it was
> > prominently advertised in the release notes for 5.1
> > 
> >
> > The actual .uno:UnicodeNotationToggle command is available to
> > assign in Customization receiving default en-US name in
> > Customization of "Toggle Unicode Notation" and can be added to
> > Menu, Toolbars, and Context menu. It shows for LibreOffice globally
> > as +x -- Command Name and the keyboard shortcut are localized
> > and configured by os.
> >
> >   I could possibly see it assigned to the Standard toolbar,
> > adjacent to the Special character dialog button.
> > But, I'm not sure how it could be ussed from menu, and which menu
> > -- Insert, Format or even Tools -- would hold it. Checked, and it
> > does _not_ appear on any MS Office menus.
> >
> > So kind of seems the enhancement of the BZ issue was fully
> > implemented--with no functional reason to add it to a menu just to
> > expose the shortcut.
> >
> > Stuart
> >  
> Thanks for the explanation.
> 
> There are other function which are useless in the menu, like i.e. 
> CTRL+C. Most (read 'all') users will use their keyboard.

Not true. Copy does not have a universal accelerator unfortunately,
sometimes it is Shift+Ctrl+C or other things. So I sometimes use the
menu in applications that I'm not completely familiar with.

> About the position of 'ToglleUnicodeNotation' in the menu (if that
> ever becomes an issue ),  the 'edit' menu is a better place,
> because it's not inserting something.
> 
> 
> Luuk
> 
> 
> 


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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: insert non-breaking semi-space

2019-06-16 Thread Luuk 


On 16-6-2019 05:59, V Stuart Foote wrote:

Luuk wrote

Why did this option not get a 'reserverd place in the menu' ? together
with the shortcut-key reference (

+X) ?

An option like

+C is only known to all people (more than 75 % ??),
because the shortcut key is next to it in the menu!

Hmm, interesting question.  The BZ tdf#73691 sheds no light, and I can't
remember any discussion of adding it to a menu. But it was prominently
advertised in the release notes for 5.1


The actual .uno:UnicodeNotationToggle command is available to assign in
Customization receiving default en-US name in Customization of "Toggle
Unicode Notation" and can be added to Menu, Toolbars, and Context menu. It
shows for LibreOffice globally as +x -- Command Name and the keyboard
shortcut are localized and configured by os.

  I could possibly see it assigned to the Standard toolbar, adjacent to the
Special character dialog button.
But, I'm not sure how it could be ussed from menu, and which menu -- Insert,
Format or even Tools -- would hold it. Checked, and it does _not_ appear on
any MS Office menus.

So kind of seems the enhancement of the BZ issue was fully implemented--with
no functional reason to add it to a menu just to expose the shortcut.

Stuart


Thanks for the explanation.

There are other function which are useless in the menu, like i.e. 
CTRL+C. Most (read 'all') users will use their keyboard.


About the position of 'ToglleUnicodeNotation' in the menu (if that ever 
becomes an issue ),  the 'edit' menu is a better place, because it's 
not inserting something.



Luuk



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Re: [libreoffice-users] Re: insert non-breaking semi-space

2019-06-15 Thread Luuk 


On 15-6-2019 17:06, V Stuart Foote wrote:

Eric Beversluis wrote

Thanks. Looks like I want to use “thin space” Hex 200A. Is there an easy
way to do that from the keyboard? None of the ways I’ve used on Linux or
Windows seem to work.

Eric Beversluis


Johnny Rosenberg wrote

https://apple.stackexchange.com/questions/183045/how-can-i-type-unicode-characters-without-using-the-mouse
Kind regards

More simply, if you know the Unicode point desired, U+200A --it can be
directly entered into LibreOffice and then toggled directly. The shortcut in
Windows, Linux is: +x.

If macOS we had to use a different shortcut:  CMD+Option+x

(implemented in tdf#73691 as modified, macOS assigned internally in
LibreOffice source to use  X_MOD1_MOD2).

That should allow you to directly enter a known Unicode glyph, just be
mindful that if working with a font that does not define a glyph you'll be
dependent on font fallback and/or will receive an "undefined glyph"
placeholder on document canvas.

Stuart

Why did this option not get a 'reserverd place in the menu' ? together 
with the shortcut-key reference (+X) ?


An option like +C is only known to all people (more than 75 % ??), 
because the shortcut key is next to it in the menu!



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