subject:"Groovy Champions proposal feedback"

Nonetheless it's interesting to see how those two statuses have evolved at
the Apache Software Foundation.

Apache Committers are not only people who "commit" source code (DVCS or
not), but also people who are "committed" to the project.
Whereas Apache PMC (Project Management Committee) Members are people even
more involved in the life of the project, who have a higher say on the
evolution and stewardship of the project.

But here, for our needs (ie. recognizing the wider ecosystem & community
efforts), it seems we all agree that something beyond those two statuses
are needed, as they don't seem to fit the level or breadth of the possible
involvement in our large ecosystem.

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 3:57 PM, Russel Winder  wrote:

> On Mon, 2018-02-26 at 13:58 +0100, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
> > Your forgot the  ...  surrounding tags :-D
> >
>
> I assume that people take that as read.
>
> --
> Russel.
> ===
> Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200
> 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077
> London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk
>

-- 
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform

Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
Social: @glaforge  / Google+

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-26 Thread Russel Winder

On Mon, 2018-02-26 at 13:58 +0100, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
> Your forgot the  ...  surrounding tags :-D
> 

I assume that people take that as read.

-- 
Russel.
===
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk


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Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

Your forgot the  ...  surrounding tags :-D

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 1:48 PM, Russel Winder  wrote:

> On Mon, 2018-02-26 at 09:00 +0100, Cédric Champeau wrote:
> > It feels like everybody agrees this is a good idea, but somethings hasn't
> > been discussed so far: the Foundation already has 2 ways of recognizing
> > members of the community:
> >
> > 1. by making them "committers"
> > 2. by making them members of the PMC
> >
> > If Groovy Champions is going to be different, we need a good explanation
> > why it doesn't fit in those 2 categories. Especially to give to the
> Board.
> > I have my ideas why, but I'd like to hear what others say.
>
> 1. Because committer in an Apache project is an outdated concept that
> Apache
> hasn't discovered how to update, nor even how to come to terms with in the
> post CVCS era?
>
>  2 Because the PMC should remain a management committee, not a place for
> recognising contribution.
>
> --
> Russel.
> ==
> Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200
> 41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077
> London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk
>



-- 
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform

Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
Social: @glaforge  / Google+

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-26 Thread Russel Winder

On Mon, 2018-02-26 at 09:00 +0100, Cédric Champeau wrote:
> It feels like everybody agrees this is a good idea, but somethings hasn't
> been discussed so far: the Foundation already has 2 ways of recognizing
> members of the community:
> 
> 1. by making them "committers"
> 2. by making them members of the PMC
> 
> If Groovy Champions is going to be different, we need a good explanation
> why it doesn't fit in those 2 categories. Especially to give to the Board.
> I have my ideas why, but I'd like to hear what others say.

1. Because committer in an Apache project is an outdated concept that Apache
hasn't discovered how to update, nor even how to come to terms with in the
post CVCS era?

 2 Because the PMC should remain a management committee, not a place for
recognising contribution.

-- 
Russel.
==
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk


signature.asc
Description: This is a digitally signed message part

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 9:24 AM, Cédric Champeau 
wrote:

> I think it would be valuable to add a few examples of profiles who might
> be entitled Groovy champion. Let me start:
>
> - a speaker, teacher who by their public talks contributed to the
> awareness of the language
>

For example someone like Venkat, who spoke early about Groovy, and keeps
doing so.
Or people like Dan Vega who run online Groovy courses.
Both would be good candidates under that label.


> - the author of a successful framework who, by leveraging Groovy,
> introduced innovative features
>

Somewhat a bit remote to the Groovy community like Koshuke, from Jenkins,
has extended Jenkins in nice ways thanks to Groovy.

So yes, those two categories fall very well in the realm of our champion
program IMHO.

We should indeed perhaps list a few of those categories when describing the
program and specifying who can be elected or not.

Guillaume


>
> 2018-02-26 9:17 GMT+01:00 Paul King :
>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 5:55 PM, Søren Berg Glasius 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> @Mario
>>>
>>> Very good thoughts, I really like the idea that an award is permanent, I
>>> believe that goes for Java Champs as well.
>>>
>>> Naming wise, Groovyssimo is fun, but not naming material for an award
>>> :-) But we need to narrow down the name-space to something realistic that
>>> can be voted on.
>>>
>>
>> Agreed on the good thoughts comment. Well, I guess you are going to rule
>> out my spin on Nobel with the No-semis award idea too! :-)
>>
>> No-semis jokes aside, we have been given feedback from within Apache that
>> we have to make sure that we cover off whatever we do in terms of Apache
>> branding, making sure that the trademark Apache Groovy is honored and that
>> such a scheme could never head down a path that would be in conflict with
>> the ASF directions. Also, as Cédric mentions we need to make a case why
>> existing schemes like "committer status" or "PMC status" might not apply. I
>> agree with Guillaume that the idea of the award has always been for the
>> entire ecosystem and the existing mechanisms for recognizing contributions
>> to the Apacge Groovy project don't really apply well in the broader
>> community context. Much like the ASF itself has different kinds of awards,
>> e.g. member of the ASF vs committer/PMC for a particular project, I think a
>> different award is needed here.
>>
>> Cheers, Paul.
>>
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 at 08:50 Mario Garcia  wrote:
>>>
 +1 to what Guillaume said :) Common guys! Lets focus on what we think
 is a great language and let others think what they want!

 Regarding the duration of the award. I've though about it, trying not
 to think in terms of annually or permanent, but trying to see what's out
 there outside the CS world, and I ended up thinking on the Nobel prize. I'd
 like some ideas of Nobel prize:

- Takes place every year
- A given prize could be vacant a given year.
- It's so important that it's really noticeable to be awarded
- Makes people very proud of some achievement they did a given year
- Once you're a Nobel you will always be a Nobel.
- Of  course there's been awarded people that even rejected the
prize but that never really underrated the prize overtime
- New members are chosen by previous members and some other
relevant people (members of the parliament among others). Here I'd add
the idea of letting anybody to propose a nominee, but leaving the final
decision to the prize committee (whatever we decide who is in)

 Despite the difference of content between the Nobel prize and the
 Groovy awards, after reviewing these points I think they seem to fit better
 in the Groovy Champions/Stars idea. There is also something I haven't heard
 yet. I guess this will require a kind of permanent organization, e.g. to
 contact members, nominees, organize the awards, a web to show the
 winners...etc

 BTW: Here you have another naming for the awards: Groovisimo Awards.
 Can you imaging a "Groovisimo" statue like the Oscars ? It would be a blast
 X

 My two cents
 Mario

 2018-02-25 10:53 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Laforge :

> James Stachan's quote has really been taken out of context, and
> over-exagerated bu the Scala-fanboys.
> If Scala had been what it is now, James would probably not have
> initiated Groovy *then*. But Scala was nascent just like Groovy *then*.
> It's like if Gavin King had said that he wouldn't have invented
> Hibernate if JPA had existed... but JPA came ten years later.
>
> This quote was really harmful, but as the saying goes, lots of water's
> gone through the bridges since then.
>
> There's still the myth of slowliness, which we all know is not true
> anymore, even in pure dynamic mode (without even mentioning static
> compilation)
> Usually, yo

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-26 Thread Cédric Champeau

I think it would be valuable to add a few examples of profiles who might be
entitled Groovy champion. Let me start:

- a speaker, teacher who by their public talks contributed to the awareness
of the language
- the author of a successful framework who, by leveraging Groovy,
introduced innovative features

2018-02-26 9:17 GMT+01:00 Paul King :

>
>
> On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 5:55 PM, Søren Berg Glasius 
> wrote:
>
>> @Mario
>>
>> Very good thoughts, I really like the idea that an award is permanent, I
>> believe that goes for Java Champs as well.
>>
>> Naming wise, Groovyssimo is fun, but not naming material for an award :-)
>> But we need to narrow down the name-space to something realistic that can
>> be voted on.
>>
>
> Agreed on the good thoughts comment. Well, I guess you are going to rule
> out my spin on Nobel with the No-semis award idea too! :-)
>
> No-semis jokes aside, we have been given feedback from within Apache that
> we have to make sure that we cover off whatever we do in terms of Apache
> branding, making sure that the trademark Apache Groovy is honored and that
> such a scheme could never head down a path that would be in conflict with
> the ASF directions. Also, as Cédric mentions we need to make a case why
> existing schemes like "committer status" or "PMC status" might not apply. I
> agree with Guillaume that the idea of the award has always been for the
> entire ecosystem and the existing mechanisms for recognizing contributions
> to the Apacge Groovy project don't really apply well in the broader
> community context. Much like the ASF itself has different kinds of awards,
> e.g. member of the ASF vs committer/PMC for a particular project, I think a
> different award is needed here.
>
> Cheers, Paul.
>
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 at 08:50 Mario Garcia  wrote:
>>
>>> +1 to what Guillaume said :) Common guys! Lets focus on what we think is
>>> a great language and let others think what they want!
>>>
>>> Regarding the duration of the award. I've though about it, trying not to
>>> think in terms of annually or permanent, but trying to see what's out there
>>> outside the CS world, and I ended up thinking on the Nobel prize. I'd like
>>> some ideas of Nobel prize:
>>>
>>>- Takes place every year
>>>- A given prize could be vacant a given year.
>>>- It's so important that it's really noticeable to be awarded
>>>- Makes people very proud of some achievement they did a given year
>>>- Once you're a Nobel you will always be a Nobel.
>>>- Of  course there's been awarded people that even rejected the
>>>prize but that never really underrated the prize overtime
>>>- New members are chosen by previous members and some other relevant
>>>people (members of the parliament among others). Here I'd add the
>>>idea of letting anybody to propose a nominee, but leaving the final
>>>decision to the prize committee (whatever we decide who is in)
>>>
>>> Despite the difference of content between the Nobel prize and the Groovy
>>> awards, after reviewing these points I think they seem to fit better in the
>>> Groovy Champions/Stars idea. There is also something I haven't heard yet. I
>>> guess this will require a kind of permanent organization, e.g. to contact
>>> members, nominees, organize the awards, a web to show the winners...etc
>>>
>>> BTW: Here you have another naming for the awards: Groovisimo Awards. Can
>>> you imaging a "Groovisimo" statue like the Oscars ? It would be a blast
>>> X
>>>
>>> My two cents
>>> Mario
>>>
>>> 2018-02-25 10:53 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Laforge :
>>>
 James Stachan's quote has really been taken out of context, and
 over-exagerated bu the Scala-fanboys.
 If Scala had been what it is now, James would probably not have
 initiated Groovy *then*. But Scala was nascent just like Groovy *then*.
 It's like if Gavin King had said that he wouldn't have invented
 Hibernate if JPA had existed... but JPA came ten years later.

 This quote was really harmful, but as the saying goes, lots of water's
 gone through the bridges since then.

 There's still the myth of slowliness, which we all know is not true
 anymore, even in pure dynamic mode (without even mentioning static
 compilation)
 Usually, you spend way more time in network latency (access to remote
 resources, access to database, etc) than waiting for the CPU spent by just
 the pure language execution time.

 Also back on James Strachan: he went to play with Scala, then with
 Kotlin, and has come back to using Groovy.
 He's using Groovy on a regular basis through his work with Jenkins, its
 pipelines, etc.
 So he's back at his old love!

 So let's turn the page on those stories, please.

 Guillaume


 On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Daniel Sun 
 wrote:

> The creator of Groovy said "I can honestly say if someone had shown me
> the
> Programming in Scala book.

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-26 Thread Paul King

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 5:55 PM, Søren Berg Glasius 
wrote:

> @Mario
>
> Very good thoughts, I really like the idea that an award is permanent, I
> believe that goes for Java Champs as well.
>
> Naming wise, Groovyssimo is fun, but not naming material for an award :-)
> But we need to narrow down the name-space to something realistic that can
> be voted on.
>

Agreed on the good thoughts comment. Well, I guess you are going to rule
out my spin on Nobel with the No-semis award idea too! :-)

No-semis jokes aside, we have been given feedback from within Apache that
we have to make sure that we cover off whatever we do in terms of Apache
branding, making sure that the trademark Apache Groovy is honored and that
such a scheme could never head down a path that would be in conflict with
the ASF directions. Also, as Cédric mentions we need to make a case why
existing schemes like "committer status" or "PMC status" might not apply. I
agree with Guillaume that the idea of the award has always been for the
entire ecosystem and the existing mechanisms for recognizing contributions
to the Apacge Groovy project don't really apply well in the broader
community context. Much like the ASF itself has different kinds of awards,
e.g. member of the ASF vs committer/PMC for a particular project, I think a
different award is needed here.

Cheers, Paul.

On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 at 08:50 Mario Garcia  wrote:
>
>> +1 to what Guillaume said :) Common guys! Lets focus on what we think is
>> a great language and let others think what they want!
>>
>> Regarding the duration of the award. I've though about it, trying not to
>> think in terms of annually or permanent, but trying to see what's out there
>> outside the CS world, and I ended up thinking on the Nobel prize. I'd like
>> some ideas of Nobel prize:
>>
>>- Takes place every year
>>- A given prize could be vacant a given year.
>>- It's so important that it's really noticeable to be awarded
>>- Makes people very proud of some achievement they did a given year
>>- Once you're a Nobel you will always be a Nobel.
>>- Of  course there's been awarded people that even rejected the prize
>>but that never really underrated the prize overtime
>>- New members are chosen by previous members and some other relevant
>>people (members of the parliament among others). Here I'd add the
>>idea of letting anybody to propose a nominee, but leaving the final
>>decision to the prize committee (whatever we decide who is in)
>>
>> Despite the difference of content between the Nobel prize and the Groovy
>> awards, after reviewing these points I think they seem to fit better in the
>> Groovy Champions/Stars idea. There is also something I haven't heard yet. I
>> guess this will require a kind of permanent organization, e.g. to contact
>> members, nominees, organize the awards, a web to show the winners...etc
>>
>> BTW: Here you have another naming for the awards: Groovisimo Awards. Can
>> you imaging a "Groovisimo" statue like the Oscars ? It would be a blast
>> X
>>
>> My two cents
>> Mario
>>
>> 2018-02-25 10:53 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Laforge :
>>
>>> James Stachan's quote has really been taken out of context, and
>>> over-exagerated bu the Scala-fanboys.
>>> If Scala had been what it is now, James would probably not have
>>> initiated Groovy *then*. But Scala was nascent just like Groovy *then*.
>>> It's like if Gavin King had said that he wouldn't have invented
>>> Hibernate if JPA had existed... but JPA came ten years later.
>>>
>>> This quote was really harmful, but as the saying goes, lots of water's
>>> gone through the bridges since then.
>>>
>>> There's still the myth of slowliness, which we all know is not true
>>> anymore, even in pure dynamic mode (without even mentioning static
>>> compilation)
>>> Usually, you spend way more time in network latency (access to remote
>>> resources, access to database, etc) than waiting for the CPU spent by just
>>> the pure language execution time.
>>>
>>> Also back on James Strachan: he went to play with Scala, then with
>>> Kotlin, and has come back to using Groovy.
>>> He's using Groovy on a regular basis through his work with Jenkins, its
>>> pipelines, etc.
>>> So he's back at his old love!
>>>
>>> So let's turn the page on those stories, please.
>>>
>>> Guillaume
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Daniel Sun 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The creator of Groovy said "I can honestly say if someone had shown me
 the
 Programming in Scala book...". I think he compared Scala with the old
 version of Groovy he created in about 2003. As we all know, Groovy has
 evolved a lot, so I never care about others' out-dated opinions on
 Groovy :)

 Cheers,
 Daniel.Sun



 --
 Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Guillaume Laforge
>>> Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
>>> Developer Advocate @ Google Cl

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

The Groovy Star / Champion is an award beyond Apache Groovy itself, and
spans plenty other projects that can be quite remote from Groovy, apart
from the fact they do use Groovy.
So those stars/champions should span also the wider ecosystem, even if they
haven't contributed otherwise in any way to the Groovy project itself
(code, documentation, promotion, bug reports, help on the lists, etc.)
My sentiment is that committer and PMC membership are for those who
contribute directly to the Apache Groovy project itself (even if not in
code form).
But to please the board, since the award bears the name of Apache Groovy,
and even if its the champions themselves who elect new members, we should
give the PMC a special vote, like a veto capability, to say yes or no, the
PMC is happy to have this person get that Groovy award.

On Mon, Feb 26, 2018 at 9:00 AM, Cédric Champeau 
wrote:

> It feels like everybody agrees this is a good idea, but somethings hasn't
> been discussed so far: the Foundation already has 2 ways of recognizing
> members of the community:
>
> 1. by making them "committers"
> 2. by making them members of the PMC
>
> If Groovy Champions is going to be different, we need a good explanation
> why it doesn't fit in those 2 categories. Especially to give to the Board.
> I have my ideas why, but I'd like to hear what others say.
>
> 2018-02-26 8:55 GMT+01:00 Søren Berg Glasius :
>
>> @Mario
>>
>> Very good thoughts, I really like the idea that an award is permanent, I
>> believe that goes for Java Champs as well.
>>
>> Naming wise, Groovyssimo is fun, but not naming material for an award :-)
>> But we need to narrow down the name-space to something realistic that can
>> be voted on.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 at 08:50 Mario Garcia  wrote:
>>
>>> +1 to what Guillaume said :) Common guys! Lets focus on what we think is
>>> a great language and let others think what they want!
>>>
>>> Regarding the duration of the award. I've though about it, trying not to
>>> think in terms of annually or permanent, but trying to see what's out there
>>> outside the CS world, and I ended up thinking on the Nobel prize. I'd like
>>> some ideas of Nobel prize:
>>>
>>>- Takes place every year
>>>- A given prize could be vacant a given year.
>>>- It's so important that it's really noticeable to be awarded
>>>- Makes people very proud of some achievement they did a given year
>>>- Once you're a Nobel you will always be a Nobel.
>>>- Of  course there's been awarded people that even rejected the
>>>prize but that never really underrated the prize overtime
>>>- New members are chosen by previous members and some other relevant
>>>people (members of the parliament among others). Here I'd add the
>>>idea of letting anybody to propose a nominee, but leaving the final
>>>decision to the prize committee (whatever we decide who is in)
>>>
>>> Despite the difference of content between the Nobel prize and the Groovy
>>> awards, after reviewing these points I think they seem to fit better in the
>>> Groovy Champions/Stars idea. There is also something I haven't heard yet. I
>>> guess this will require a kind of permanent organization, e.g. to contact
>>> members, nominees, organize the awards, a web to show the winners...etc
>>>
>>> BTW: Here you have another naming for the awards: Groovisimo Awards. Can
>>> you imaging a "Groovisimo" statue like the Oscars ? It would be a blast
>>> X
>>>
>>> My two cents
>>> Mario
>>>
>>> 2018-02-25 10:53 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Laforge :
>>>
 James Stachan's quote has really been taken out of context, and
 over-exagerated bu the Scala-fanboys.
 If Scala had been what it is now, James would probably not have
 initiated Groovy *then*. But Scala was nascent just like Groovy *then*.
 It's like if Gavin King had said that he wouldn't have invented
 Hibernate if JPA had existed... but JPA came ten years later.

 This quote was really harmful, but as the saying goes, lots of water's
 gone through the bridges since then.

 There's still the myth of slowliness, which we all know is not true
 anymore, even in pure dynamic mode (without even mentioning static
 compilation)
 Usually, you spend way more time in network latency (access to remote
 resources, access to database, etc) than waiting for the CPU spent by just
 the pure language execution time.

 Also back on James Strachan: he went to play with Scala, then with
 Kotlin, and has come back to using Groovy.
 He's using Groovy on a regular basis through his work with Jenkins, its
 pipelines, etc.
 So he's back at his old love!

 So let's turn the page on those stories, please.

 Guillaume

 On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Daniel Sun 
 wrote:

> The creator of Groovy said "I can honestly say if someone had shown me
> the
> Programming in Scala book...". I think he compared Scala

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-26 Thread Cédric Champeau

It feels like everybody agrees this is a good idea, but somethings hasn't
been discussed so far: the Foundation already has 2 ways of recognizing
members of the community:

1. by making them "committers"
2. by making them members of the PMC

If Groovy Champions is going to be different, we need a good explanation
why it doesn't fit in those 2 categories. Especially to give to the Board.
I have my ideas why, but I'd like to hear what others say.

2018-02-26 8:55 GMT+01:00 Søren Berg Glasius :

> @Mario
>
> Very good thoughts, I really like the idea that an award is permanent, I
> believe that goes for Java Champs as well.
>
> Naming wise, Groovyssimo is fun, but not naming material for an award :-)
> But we need to narrow down the name-space to something realistic that can
> be voted on.
>
>
>
> On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 at 08:50 Mario Garcia  wrote:
>
>> +1 to what Guillaume said :) Common guys! Lets focus on what we think is
>> a great language and let others think what they want!
>>
>> Regarding the duration of the award. I've though about it, trying not to
>> think in terms of annually or permanent, but trying to see what's out there
>> outside the CS world, and I ended up thinking on the Nobel prize. I'd like
>> some ideas of Nobel prize:
>>
>>- Takes place every year
>>- A given prize could be vacant a given year.
>>- It's so important that it's really noticeable to be awarded
>>- Makes people very proud of some achievement they did a given year
>>- Once you're a Nobel you will always be a Nobel.
>>- Of  course there's been awarded people that even rejected the prize
>>but that never really underrated the prize overtime
>>- New members are chosen by previous members and some other relevant
>>people (members of the parliament among others). Here I'd add the
>>idea of letting anybody to propose a nominee, but leaving the final
>>decision to the prize committee (whatever we decide who is in)
>>
>> Despite the difference of content between the Nobel prize and the Groovy
>> awards, after reviewing these points I think they seem to fit better in the
>> Groovy Champions/Stars idea. There is also something I haven't heard yet. I
>> guess this will require a kind of permanent organization, e.g. to contact
>> members, nominees, organize the awards, a web to show the winners...etc
>>
>> BTW: Here you have another naming for the awards: Groovisimo Awards. Can
>> you imaging a "Groovisimo" statue like the Oscars ? It would be a blast
>> X
>>
>> My two cents
>> Mario
>>
>> 2018-02-25 10:53 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Laforge :
>>
>>> James Stachan's quote has really been taken out of context, and
>>> over-exagerated bu the Scala-fanboys.
>>> If Scala had been what it is now, James would probably not have
>>> initiated Groovy *then*. But Scala was nascent just like Groovy *then*.
>>> It's like if Gavin King had said that he wouldn't have invented
>>> Hibernate if JPA had existed... but JPA came ten years later.
>>>
>>> This quote was really harmful, but as the saying goes, lots of water's
>>> gone through the bridges since then.
>>>
>>> There's still the myth of slowliness, which we all know is not true
>>> anymore, even in pure dynamic mode (without even mentioning static
>>> compilation)
>>> Usually, you spend way more time in network latency (access to remote
>>> resources, access to database, etc) than waiting for the CPU spent by just
>>> the pure language execution time.
>>>
>>> Also back on James Strachan: he went to play with Scala, then with
>>> Kotlin, and has come back to using Groovy.
>>> He's using Groovy on a regular basis through his work with Jenkins, its
>>> pipelines, etc.
>>> So he's back at his old love!
>>>
>>> So let's turn the page on those stories, please.
>>>
>>> Guillaume
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Daniel Sun 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 The creator of Groovy said "I can honestly say if someone had shown me
 the
 Programming in Scala book...". I think he compared Scala with the old
 version of Groovy he created in about 2003. As we all know, Groovy has
 evolved a lot, so I never care about others' out-dated opinions on
 Groovy :)

 Cheers,
 Daniel.Sun



 --
 Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html

>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Guillaume Laforge
>>> Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
>>> Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform
>>>
>>> Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
>>> Social: @glaforge  / Google+
>>> 
>>>
>>
>> --
> Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
> Søren Berg Glasius
>
> Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
> Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88 <+45%2040%2044%2091%2088>, Skype: sbglasius
> --- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.
>

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-25 Thread Søren Berg Glasius

@Mario

Very good thoughts, I really like the idea that an award is permanent, I
believe that goes for Java Champs as well.

Naming wise, Groovyssimo is fun, but not naming material for an award :-)
But we need to narrow down the name-space to something realistic that can
be voted on.



On Mon, 26 Feb 2018 at 08:50 Mario Garcia  wrote:

> +1 to what Guillaume said :) Common guys! Lets focus on what we think is a
> great language and let others think what they want!
>
> Regarding the duration of the award. I've though about it, trying not to
> think in terms of annually or permanent, but trying to see what's out there
> outside the CS world, and I ended up thinking on the Nobel prize. I'd like
> some ideas of Nobel prize:
>
>- Takes place every year
>- A given prize could be vacant a given year.
>- It's so important that it's really noticeable to be awarded
>- Makes people very proud of some achievement they did a given year
>- Once you're a Nobel you will always be a Nobel.
>- Of  course there's been awarded people that even rejected the prize
>but that never really underrated the prize overtime
>- New members are chosen by previous members and some other relevant
>people (members of the parliament among others). Here I'd add the idea
>of letting anybody to propose a nominee, but leaving the final decision to
>the prize committee (whatever we decide who is in)
>
> Despite the difference of content between the Nobel prize and the Groovy
> awards, after reviewing these points I think they seem to fit better in the
> Groovy Champions/Stars idea. There is also something I haven't heard yet. I
> guess this will require a kind of permanent organization, e.g. to contact
> members, nominees, organize the awards, a web to show the winners...etc
>
> BTW: Here you have another naming for the awards: Groovisimo Awards. Can
> you imaging a "Groovisimo" statue like the Oscars ? It would be a blast
> X
>
> My two cents
> Mario
>
> 2018-02-25 10:53 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Laforge :
>
>> James Stachan's quote has really been taken out of context, and
>> over-exagerated bu the Scala-fanboys.
>> If Scala had been what it is now, James would probably not have initiated
>> Groovy *then*. But Scala was nascent just like Groovy *then*.
>> It's like if Gavin King had said that he wouldn't have invented Hibernate
>> if JPA had existed... but JPA came ten years later.
>>
>> This quote was really harmful, but as the saying goes, lots of water's
>> gone through the bridges since then.
>>
>> There's still the myth of slowliness, which we all know is not true
>> anymore, even in pure dynamic mode (without even mentioning static
>> compilation)
>> Usually, you spend way more time in network latency (access to remote
>> resources, access to database, etc) than waiting for the CPU spent by just
>> the pure language execution time.
>>
>> Also back on James Strachan: he went to play with Scala, then with
>> Kotlin, and has come back to using Groovy.
>> He's using Groovy on a regular basis through his work with Jenkins, its
>> pipelines, etc.
>> So he's back at his old love!
>>
>> So let's turn the page on those stories, please.
>>
>> Guillaume
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Daniel Sun 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> The creator of Groovy said "I can honestly say if someone had shown me
>>> the
>>> Programming in Scala book...". I think he compared Scala with the old
>>> version of Groovy he created in about 2003. As we all know, Groovy has
>>> evolved a lot, so I never care about others' out-dated opinions on
>>> Groovy :)
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Daniel.Sun
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume Laforge
>> Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
>> Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform
>>
>> Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
>> Social: @glaforge  / Google+
>> 
>>
>
> --
Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
Søren Berg Glasius

Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88, Skype: sbglasius
--- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-25 Thread Mario Garcia

+1 to what Guillaume said :) Common guys! Lets focus on what we think is a
great language and let others think what they want!

Regarding the duration of the award. I've though about it, trying not to
think in terms of annually or permanent, but trying to see what's out there
outside the CS world, and I ended up thinking on the Nobel prize. I'd like
some ideas of Nobel prize:

   - Takes place every year
   - A given prize could be vacant a given year.
   - It's so important that it's really noticeable to be awarded
   - Makes people very proud of some achievement they did a given year
   - Once you're a Nobel you will always be a Nobel.
   - Of  course there's been awarded people that even rejected the prize
   but that never really underrated the prize overtime
   - New members are chosen by previous members and some other relevant
   people (members of the parliament among others). Here I'd add the idea
   of letting anybody to propose a nominee, but leaving the final decision to
   the prize committee (whatever we decide who is in)

Despite the difference of content between the Nobel prize and the Groovy
awards, after reviewing these points I think they seem to fit better in the
Groovy Champions/Stars idea. There is also something I haven't heard yet. I
guess this will require a kind of permanent organization, e.g. to contact
members, nominees, organize the awards, a web to show the winners...etc

BTW: Here you have another naming for the awards: Groovisimo Awards. Can
you imaging a "Groovisimo" statue like the Oscars ? It would be a blast
X

My two cents
Mario

2018-02-25 10:53 GMT+01:00 Guillaume Laforge :

> James Stachan's quote has really been taken out of context, and
> over-exagerated bu the Scala-fanboys.
> If Scala had been what it is now, James would probably not have initiated
> Groovy *then*. But Scala was nascent just like Groovy *then*.
> It's like if Gavin King had said that he wouldn't have invented Hibernate
> if JPA had existed... but JPA came ten years later.
>
> This quote was really harmful, but as the saying goes, lots of water's
> gone through the bridges since then.
>
> There's still the myth of slowliness, which we all know is not true
> anymore, even in pure dynamic mode (without even mentioning static
> compilation)
> Usually, you spend way more time in network latency (access to remote
> resources, access to database, etc) than waiting for the CPU spent by just
> the pure language execution time.
>
> Also back on James Strachan: he went to play with Scala, then with Kotlin,
> and has come back to using Groovy.
> He's using Groovy on a regular basis through his work with Jenkins, its
> pipelines, etc.
> So he's back at his old love!
>
> So let's turn the page on those stories, please.
>
> Guillaume
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Daniel Sun 
> wrote:
>
>> The creator of Groovy said "I can honestly say if someone had shown me the
>> Programming in Scala book...". I think he compared Scala with the old
>> version of Groovy he created in about 2003. As we all know, Groovy has
>> evolved a lot, so I never care about others' out-dated opinions on Groovy
>> :)
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel.Sun
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Guillaume Laforge
> Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
> Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform
>
> Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
> Social: @glaforge  / Google+
> 
>

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-25 Thread Guillaume Laforge

James Stachan's quote has really been taken out of context, and
over-exagerated bu the Scala-fanboys.
If Scala had been what it is now, James would probably not have initiated
Groovy *then*. But Scala was nascent just like Groovy *then*.
It's like if Gavin King had said that he wouldn't have invented Hibernate
if JPA had existed... but JPA came ten years later.

This quote was really harmful, but as the saying goes, lots of water's gone
through the bridges since then.

There's still the myth of slowliness, which we all know is not true
anymore, even in pure dynamic mode (without even mentioning static
compilation)
Usually, you spend way more time in network latency (access to remote
resources, access to database, etc) than waiting for the CPU spent by just
the pure language execution time.

Also back on James Strachan: he went to play with Scala, then with Kotlin,
and has come back to using Groovy.
He's using Groovy on a regular basis through his work with Jenkins, its
pipelines, etc.
So he's back at his old love!

So let's turn the page on those stories, please.

Guillaume

On Sun, Feb 25, 2018 at 10:26 AM, Daniel Sun 
wrote:

> The creator of Groovy said "I can honestly say if someone had shown me the
> Programming in Scala book...". I think he compared Scala with the old
> version of Groovy he created in about 2003. As we all know, Groovy has
> evolved a lot, so I never care about others' out-dated opinions on Groovy
> :)
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
>

-- 
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform

Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
Social: @glaforge  / Google+

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-25 Thread Daniel Sun

The creator of Groovy said "I can honestly say if someone had shown me the
Programming in Scala book...". I think he compared Scala with the old
version of Groovy he created in about 2003. As we all know, Groovy has
evolved a lot, so I never care about others' out-dated opinions on Groovy :)

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun



--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-24 Thread MG

I agree. The point I was trying to make is however, that the "I can 
honestly say if someone had shown me the Programming in Scala book..." 
quote is the one I find on Google, and I found it quoted by people in 
typical "Java vs Groovy vs ..." threads.
Having the creator of a language say that another language is better, 
looks like the ultimate knockout in such threads, and if no one is ther 
to counter (the way you just did), you might just have lost a potential 
new Groovy user.
The myth about Groovy being "slow" I wrote about in the past is also 
still on the net. The lesson is: Bad messages spread easily and die 
hard, most people do not take the time to check if e.g. the creator of 
Groovy has later changed his opinion on Scala, or if Groovy is actually 
still slow.
(The message, that the Groovy project has honored one of the people 
behind Kotlin would evidently imho be such a message. )


Cheers,
mg

On 16.02.2018 01:24, Jochen Theodorou wrote:

On 14.02.2018 22:38, MG wrote:
[...]
Would you suggest we also honor Groovy inventor James Strachan, who 
wrote in 2009 in his Blog "I can honestly say if someone had shown me 
the Programming in Scala book by by Martin Odersky, Lex Spoon & Bill 
Venners back in 2003 I'd probably have never created Groovy.":
http://macstrac.blogspot.co.at/2009/04/scala-as-long-term-replacement-for.html 

https://www.quora.com/Is-Groovy-going-away-When-the-author-of-Groovy-says-he-would-have-never-created-Groovy-if-he-knew-about-Scala-then-it-makes-me-wonder-if-there-is-a-future-at-all 


?


I counter with https://twitter.com/jstrachan/status/784333918078169088:

I still love groovy (jenkins pipelines are so groovy!), java, go, 
typescript and kotlin. I don’t use scala any more


I think that proofs, that this discussion with Scala is just not worth 
it really.

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-20 Thread Keith Suderman

I may as well chip in my $0.00 worth.

I like the concept,  that it will be retroactive, and will consider more than 
just code contributions.

I also think the chosen name should be professions looking/sounding and not be 
"cutesy".  Therefore my preference(s) would be:

1. Groovy Champion (to be as close as possible to Java Champion)
2. Groovy Star (due to the logo tie-in)
3. Groovy MVP

Anyone confusing "Most Valuable Player" with "Minimum Viable Product" needs to 
get out and watch more sports ;-)

- Keith

> On Feb 13, 2018, at 4:58 AM, Paul King  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi everyone,
> 
> A few of us have had various discussions (in fact over many years)
> about having a recognition scheme similar to Java Champions,
> perhaps called "Groovy Champions" or "Apache Groovy Champions"
> or something else entirely if we think of a better name.
> 
> I think the idea has always been to recognize contribution within the
> whole Groovy ecosystem not just the Apache Groovy project. The many
> tens of projects within the ecosystem are often where many ideas come
> from for the project's future evolution and also where future contributors
> may arise. And in any case, Groovy has always been about making
> coding productive and fun and we should celebrate that widely!
> 
> There are various questions to ask like should such a scheme
> be formally coordinated by the project/by Apache or should it be run as a
> community-driven unsanctioned activity and if so what guidelines should
> be in place. Also, there are many details like how will the scheme operate?
> How are new members elected? Is it a lifetime recognition or is there
> an "emeritus" status? And so forth. Java Champions vote themselves
> on new champions and the recognition has a lifetime status for instance.
> if we progress this idea, we'd need to make that all clear but that isn't
> the purpose of this email - we need to first decide if we like the idea.
> 
> Even if we like the idea, there are still some hurdles to step through.
> We've already sought some informal feedback from other parts of
> Apache and other projects within the Groovy Ecosystem and we'll
> likely need further discussions. We want something that embraces
> the whole community but fits in with Apache project governance
> around trademarks/branding.
> 
> So, the first question is: are we as a project in favor of such a scheme?
> 
> Cheers, Paul.

--
Keith Suderman
Research Associate
Department of Computer Science
Vassar College, Poughkeepsie NY
suder...@cs.vassar.edu

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

Groovy Bright Giants(a subclass of Red Giants ;-) )
Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: mg Datum:
20.02.18 20:29 (GMT+01:00) An: users@groovy.apache.org Betreff: Re: Groovy
Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?
Groovy (Red) Giants
Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: Rahul Somasunderam
Datum: 20.02.18 18:43 (GMT+01:00) An:
users@groovy.apache.org Betreff: Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback -
Groovy MVPs ?

Person with Groove ?

On Feb 20, 2018, at 7:30 AM, Kyle Boon wrote:

Groovy Person of Interest?
Groovy Notable Human?
Contributor of Significance?

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 4:14 AM, Søren Berg Glasius
wrote:

Are we at a point where there should be put out a vote for which name to use?
There are several good ones, and a few not so good... not judging however :D

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 at 11:07 Guillaume Laforge wrote:

Or even GrooVIP :-D

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:20 AM, Cédric Champeau
wrote:

I agree with Guillaume: MVP sounds "Minimal Viable Product" in my head :)
Anoter option: VIP ;)

2018-02-20 8:32 GMT+01:00 Jennifer Strater
:

Although there seems to be a lot of disagreement about the name, everyone seems
to be in favor of the idea. What is the next step, Paul?

On 20. Feb 2018, at 07:56, Peter McNeil wrote:

You're all missing the obvious "Groovy GR8" :-)

On 20/02/18 11:35, Paul King wrote:

Supreme Thanks Award Recognising contributions? :-)

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Kostas Saidis
wrote:

My own few cents, too:

Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP all have their pros and cons. I would
suggest something along the lines of Groovy Exceptional Community Member
(Groovy ECM) or Groovy Distinguished Community Member (Groovy DCM). New
acronym, professional enough, focusing
on the overall community and not only the language per se.

Kostas

On 19/2/2018 10:26 μμ, MG wrote:

I have never heard "MVP" = "Minimum Viable Product", so I doubt this would
pose a problem. Also do you suggest that people would actually read "Groovy has
announced its Minimum Viable Products of 2018" ?

STAR has 129 meanings as an acronym, btw, according to
https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/STAR

On 19.02.2018 20:39, Guillaume Laforge wrote:

For me, MVP sounds too much like Minimum Viable Product :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:32 PM, MG
wrote:

Following the sports analogy, what about

"Groovy MVPs"

Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is typically crowned
in the US), and I think "Groovy announced its 2018 MVPs" has a nice ring to it.

Cheers,

On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:

I disagree with MG.

A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on the Groovy
language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both professional, and since
it can be directly linked to the star in the Groovy logo I think it makes
perfect sense.
In sports you also have star players and in music (and Java) you have rock
stars. That you can find examples that relates to games on Nintendo does not
make a valid point IMO. The "All Stars" just makes it so much better - as
that's what Paul, Jochen and others
are .

My few cents worth.

/Søren

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG wrote:

On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:

+1up on Groovy Stars.

"Get a life" ;-)

But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider whether that
name really sends the right professional message with regards to Groovy ? I am
convinced it does not.

Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a project are typically
conservative and sensitive to those things, and they do not normally follow
nerd humor... (next suggestion I see coming along the Stars-crossed-line, is to
call Paul and Jochen
"Groovy All Stars")

As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the Nintendo Switch might
become a reality:

http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-leaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun
wrote:

Hi Paul,

“Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java Champions"

easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me associate "Song

Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not associate

as I do...

Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current "Grape"

as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...

To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.

Cheers,

Daniel.Sun

Sent from:
http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

Groovy (Red) Giants
 Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: Rahul Somasunderam 
 Datum: 20.02.18  18:43  (GMT+01:00) An: 
users@groovy.apache.org Betreff: Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - 
Groovy MVPs ? 

Person with Groove ?




On Feb 20, 2018, at 7:30 AM, Kyle Boon  wrote:



Groovy Person of Interest?
Groovy Notable Human?
Contributor of Significance? 



On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 4:14 AM, Søren Berg Glasius 
 wrote:


Are we at a point where there should be put out a vote for which name to use? 
There are several good ones, and a few not so good... not judging however :D




On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 at 11:07 Guillaume Laforge  wrote:



Or even GrooVIP :-D


On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:20 AM, Cédric Champeau 
 wrote:


I agree with Guillaume: MVP sounds "Minimal Viable Product" in my head :) 
Anoter option: VIP ;)






2018-02-20 8:32 GMT+01:00 Jennifer Strater
:


Although there seems to be a lot of disagreement about the name, everyone seems 
to be in favor of the idea. What is the next step, Paul?





On 20. Feb 2018, at 07:56, Peter McNeil  wrote:






You're all missing the obvious "Groovy GR8" :-)





On 20/02/18 11:35, Paul King wrote:



Supreme Thanks Award Recognising contributions? :-)


On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Kostas Saidis 
 wrote:




My own few cents, too:



Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP all have their pros and cons. I would 
suggest something along the lines of Groovy Exceptional Community Member 
(Groovy ECM) or Groovy Distinguished Community Member (Groovy DCM). New 
acronym, professional enough, focusing
 on the overall community and not only the language per se.



Kostas






On 19/2/2018 10:26 μμ, MG wrote:






I have never heard "MVP" =  "Minimum Viable Product", so I doubt this would 
pose a problem. Also do you suggest that people would actually read "Groovy has 
announced its Minimum Viable Products of 2018" ?

STAR has 129 meanings as an acronym, btw, according to 
https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/STAR




On 19.02.2018 20:39, Guillaume Laforge wrote:



For me, MVP sounds too much like Minimum Viable Product :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product





On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:32 PM, MG 
 wrote:


Following the sports analogy, what about




"Groovy MVPs" 



?



Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is typically crowned 
in the US), and I think "Groovy announced its 2018 MVPs" has a nice ring to it.



Cheers,

mg








On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:



I disagree with MG.



A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on the Groovy 
language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both professional, and since 
it can be directly linked to the star in the Groovy logo I think it makes 
perfect sense.
 In sports you also have star players and in music (and Java) you have rock 
stars. That you can find examples that relates to games on Nintendo does not 
make a valid point IMO. The "All Stars" just makes it so much better - as 
that's what Paul, Jochen and others
 are .



My few cents worth.



/Søren



On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG  wrote:








On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:



+1up on Groovy Stars. 





"Get a life" ;-)



But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider whether that 
name really sends the right professional message with regards to Groovy ? I am 
convinced it does not.


Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a project are typically 
conservative and sensitive to those things, and they do not normally follow 
nerd humor... (next suggestion I see coming along the Stars-crossed-line, is to 
call Paul and Jochen
 "Groovy All Stars")



As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the Nintendo Switch might 
become a reality:

http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-leaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game














On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun 
 wrote:


Hi Paul,



     “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java Champions"

easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me associate "Song

Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not associate

as I do...



      Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current "Grape"

as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...



      To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.



Cheers,

Daniel.Sun







--

Sent from: 
http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html














--




Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
Søren Berg Glasius



Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
Mobile: 
+45 40 44 91 88, Skype: sbglasius
--- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.















-- 










Guillaume Laforge

Apache Groov

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

Syvoorg / SyvoorgsGroosGrooviansGroovers

 Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: Rahul Somasunderam 
 Datum: 20.02.18  18:43  (GMT+01:00) An: 
users@groovy.apache.org Betreff: Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - 
Groovy MVPs ? 

Person with Groove ?




On Feb 20, 2018, at 7:30 AM, Kyle Boon  wrote:



Groovy Person of Interest?
Groovy Notable Human?
Contributor of Significance? 



On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 4:14 AM, Søren Berg Glasius 
 wrote:


Are we at a point where there should be put out a vote for which name to use? 
There are several good ones, and a few not so good... not judging however :D




On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 at 11:07 Guillaume Laforge  wrote:



Or even GrooVIP :-D


On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:20 AM, Cédric Champeau 
 wrote:


I agree with Guillaume: MVP sounds "Minimal Viable Product" in my head :) 
Anoter option: VIP ;)






2018-02-20 8:32 GMT+01:00 Jennifer Strater
:


Although there seems to be a lot of disagreement about the name, everyone seems 
to be in favor of the idea. What is the next step, Paul?





On 20. Feb 2018, at 07:56, Peter McNeil  wrote:






You're all missing the obvious "Groovy GR8" :-)





On 20/02/18 11:35, Paul King wrote:



Supreme Thanks Award Recognising contributions? :-)


On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Kostas Saidis 
 wrote:




My own few cents, too:



Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP all have their pros and cons. I would 
suggest something along the lines of Groovy Exceptional Community Member 
(Groovy ECM) or Groovy Distinguished Community Member (Groovy DCM). New 
acronym, professional enough, focusing
 on the overall community and not only the language per se.



Kostas






On 19/2/2018 10:26 μμ, MG wrote:






I have never heard "MVP" =  "Minimum Viable Product", so I doubt this would 
pose a problem. Also do you suggest that people would actually read "Groovy has 
announced its Minimum Viable Products of 2018" ?

STAR has 129 meanings as an acronym, btw, according to 
https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/STAR




On 19.02.2018 20:39, Guillaume Laforge wrote:



For me, MVP sounds too much like Minimum Viable Product :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product





On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:32 PM, MG 
 wrote:


Following the sports analogy, what about




"Groovy MVPs" 



?



Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is typically crowned 
in the US), and I think "Groovy announced its 2018 MVPs" has a nice ring to it.



Cheers,

mg








On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:



I disagree with MG.



A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on the Groovy 
language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both professional, and since 
it can be directly linked to the star in the Groovy logo I think it makes 
perfect sense.
 In sports you also have star players and in music (and Java) you have rock 
stars. That you can find examples that relates to games on Nintendo does not 
make a valid point IMO. The "All Stars" just makes it so much better - as 
that's what Paul, Jochen and others
 are .



My few cents worth.



/Søren



On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG  wrote:








On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:



+1up on Groovy Stars. 





"Get a life" ;-)



But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider whether that 
name really sends the right professional message with regards to Groovy ? I am 
convinced it does not.


Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a project are typically 
conservative and sensitive to those things, and they do not normally follow 
nerd humor... (next suggestion I see coming along the Stars-crossed-line, is to 
call Paul and Jochen
 "Groovy All Stars")



As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the Nintendo Switch might 
become a reality:

http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-leaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game














On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun 
 wrote:


Hi Paul,



     “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java Champions"

easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me associate "Song

Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not associate

as I do...



      Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current "Grape"

as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...



      To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.



Cheers,

Daniel.Sun







--

Sent from: 
http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html














--




Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
Søren Berg Glasius



Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
Mobile: 
+45 40 44 91 88, Skype: sbglasius
--- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

GrooVIP I like, it's in the tradition of GString... :-)
"The Apache Groovy project announced its 2018 GrooVIPs" works for me.
mg



 Ursprüngliche Nachricht Von: Guillaume Laforge 
 Datum: 20.02.18  11:07  (GMT+01:00) An: 
users@groovy.apache.org Betreff: Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - 
Groovy MVPs ? 
Or even GrooVIP :-D
On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:20 AM, Cédric Champeau  
wrote:
I agree with Guillaume: MVP sounds "Minimal Viable Product" in my head :) 
Anoter option: VIP ;)

2018-02-20 8:32 GMT+01:00 Jennifer Strater :
Although there seems to be a lot of disagreement about the name, everyone seems 
to be in favor of the idea. What is the next step, Paul?

On 20. Feb 2018, at 07:56, Peter McNeil  wrote:


  

  
  
You're all missing the obvious "Groovy GR8" :-)




On 20/02/18 11:35, Paul King wrote:



  Supreme Thanks Award Recognising contributions? :-)
  

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Kostas
  Saidis 
  wrote:

  

  My own
few cents, too:



Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP all have their
pros and cons. I would suggest something along the lines
of Groovy Exceptional Community Member (Groovy ECM) or
Groovy Distinguished Community Member (Groovy DCM). New
acronym, professional enough, focusing on the overall
community and not only the language per se.



Kostas

  



On 19/2/2018 10:26 μμ, MG wrote:

  

  
  

   I have never heard "MVP" = 
"Minimum Viable Product", so I doubt this would pose
a problem. Also do you suggest that people would
actually read "Groovy has announced its Minimum
Viable Products of 2018" ?

STAR has 129 meanings as an acronym, btw, according
to https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/STAR



On
  19.02.2018 20:39, Guillaume Laforge wrote:



  For me, MVP sounds too much like
Minimum Viable Product :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product


  
  

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at
  8:32 PM, MG 
  wrote:

  

  Following the sports analogy, what about 

  

  "Groovy MVPs" 

  

  ?

  

  Any game can have Most Valuable Players
  (even if only one is typically crowned in
  the US), and I think "Groovy announced its
  2018 MVPs" has a nice ring to it.

  

  Cheers,

  mg

  

  

  

  On
19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius
wrote:

  
  
I disagree with MG.
  

  
  A star is an object that shines,
and in this case shines light on the
Groovy language and ecosystem. Hence
I think the name is both
professional, and since it can be
directly linked to the star in the
Groovy logo I think it makes perfect
sense. In sports you also have star
players and in music (and Java) you
have rock stars. That you can find
examples that relates to games on
Nintendo does not make a valid point
IMO. The "All Stars" just makes it

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

2018-02-20 Thread Rahul Somasunderam

Person with Groove ?

On Feb 20, 2018, at 7:30 AM, Kyle Boon 
mailto:kyle.f.b...@gmail.com>> wrote:

Groovy Person of Interest?
Groovy Notable Human?
Contributor of Significance?

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 4:14 AM, Søren Berg Glasius 
mailto:soe...@glasius.dk>> wrote:
Are we at a point where there should be put out a vote for which name to use? 
There are several good ones, and a few not so good... not judging however :D

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 at 11:07 Guillaume Laforge 
mailto:glafo...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Or even GrooVIP :-D

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:20 AM, Cédric Champeau 
mailto:cedric.champ...@gmail.com>> wrote:
I agree with Guillaume: MVP sounds "Minimal Viable Product" in my head :) 
Anoter option: VIP ;)

2018-02-20 8:32 GMT+01:00 Jennifer Strater 
mailto:jenn.stra...@gmail.com>>:
Although there seems to be a lot of disagreement about the name, everyone seems 
to be in favor of the idea. What is the next step, Paul?


On 20. Feb 2018, at 07:56, Peter McNeil 
mailto:pe...@mcneils.net>> wrote:


You're all missing the obvious "Groovy GR8" :-)

On 20/02/18 11:35, Paul King wrote:
Supreme Thanks Award Recognising contributions? :-)

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Kostas Saidis 
mailto:sai...@gmail.com>> wrote:
My own few cents, too:

Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP all have their pros and cons. I would 
suggest something along the lines of Groovy Exceptional Community Member 
(Groovy ECM) or Groovy Distinguished Community Member (Groovy DCM). New 
acronym, professional enough, focusing on the overall community and not only 
the language per se.

Kostas


On 19/2/2018 10:26 μμ, MG wrote:
I have never heard "MVP" =  "Minimum Viable Product", so I doubt this would 
pose a problem. Also do you suggest that people would actually read "Groovy has 
announced its Minimum Viable Products of 2018" ?
STAR has 129 meanings as an acronym, btw, according to 
https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/STAR

On 19.02.2018 20:39, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
For me, MVP sounds too much like Minimum Viable Product :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:32 PM, MG 
mailto:mg...@arscreat.com>> wrote:
Following the sports analogy, what about

"Groovy MVPs"

?

Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is typically crowned 
in the US), and I think "Groovy announced its 2018 MVPs" has a nice ring to it.

Cheers,
mg



On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:
I disagree with MG.

A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on the Groovy 
language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both professional, and since 
it can be directly linked to the star in the Groovy logo I think it makes 
perfect sense. In sports you also have star players and in music (and Java) you 
have rock stars. That you can find examples that relates to games on Nintendo 
does not make a valid point IMO. The "All Stars" just makes it so much better - 
as that's what Paul, Jochen and others are .

My few cents worth.

/Søren

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG mailto:mg...@arscreat.com>> 
wrote:


On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:
+1up on Groovy Stars.

"Get a life" ;-)

But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider whether that 
name really sends the right professional message with regards to Groovy ? I am 
convinced it does not.
Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a project are typically 
conservative and sensitive to those things, and they do not normally follow 
nerd humor... (next suggestion I see coming along the Stars-crossed-line, is to 
call Paul and Jochen "Groovy All Stars")

As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the Nintendo Switch might 
become a reality:
http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-leaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game




On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun 
mailto:realblue...@hotmail.com>> wrote:
Hi Paul,

 “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java Champions"
easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me associate "Song
Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not associate
as I do...

  Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current "Grape"
as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...

  To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun



--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html


--
Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
Søren Berg Glasius

Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88, Skype: sbglasius
--- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.




--
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform

Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
Social: @glaforge / 
Google+





--
web: http://nerderg.com
Twitter: http://twitter.com/pmcneil
Google

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

2018-02-20 Thread Paolo Di Tommaso

+1

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 11:14 AM, Søren Berg Glasius 
wrote:

> Are we at a point where there should be put out a vote for which name to
> use? There are several good ones, and a few not so good... not judging
> however :D
>

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

2018-02-20 Thread Kyle Boon

Groovy Person of Interest?
Groovy Notable Human?
Contributor of Significance?

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 4:14 AM, Søren Berg Glasius 
wrote:

> Are we at a point where there should be put out a vote for which name to
> use? There are several good ones, and a few not so good... not judging
> however :D
>
> On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 at 11:07 Guillaume Laforge  wrote:
>
>> Or even GrooVIP :-D
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:20 AM, Cédric Champeau <
>> cedric.champ...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> I agree with Guillaume: MVP sounds "Minimal Viable Product" in my head
>>> :) Anoter option: VIP ;)
>>>
>>> 2018-02-20 <20%2018%2002%2020> 8:32 GMT+01:00 Jennifer Strater <
>>> jenn.stra...@gmail.com>:
>>>
 Although there seems to be a lot of disagreement about the name,
 everyone seems to be in favor of the idea. What is the next step, Paul?


 On 20. Feb 2018, at 07:56, Peter McNeil  wrote:

 You're all missing the obvious "Groovy GR8" :-)

 On 20/02/18 11:35, Paul King wrote:

 Supreme Thanks Award Recognising contributions? :-)

 On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Kostas Saidis 
 wrote:

> My own few cents, too:
>
> Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP all have their pros and cons.
> I would suggest something along the lines of Groovy Exceptional Community
> Member (Groovy ECM) or Groovy Distinguished Community Member (Groovy DCM).
> New acronym, professional enough, focusing on the overall community and 
> not
> only the language per se.
>
> Kostas
>
>
> On 19/2/2018 10:26 μμ, MG wrote:
>
> I have never heard "MVP" =  "Minimum Viable Product", so I doubt this
> would pose a problem. Also do you suggest that people would actually read
> "Groovy has announced its Minimum Viable Products of 2018" ?
> STAR has 129 meanings as an acronym, btw, according to
> https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/STAR
>
> On 19.02.2018 20:39, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
>
> For me, MVP sounds too much like Minimum Viable Product :
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:32 PM, MG  wrote:
>
>> Following the sports analogy, what about
>>
>> "Groovy MVPs"
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is
>> typically crowned in the US), and I think "Groovy announced its 2018 
>> MVPs"
>> has a nice ring to it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> mg
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:
>>
>> I disagree with MG.
>>
>> A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on the
>> Groovy language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both 
>> professional,
>> and since it can be directly linked to the star in the Groovy logo I 
>> think
>> it makes perfect sense. In sports you also have star players and in music
>> (and Java) you have rock stars. That you can find examples that relates 
>> to
>> games on Nintendo does not make a valid point IMO. The "All Stars" just
>> makes it so much better - as that's what Paul, Jochen and others are .
>>
>> My few cents worth.
>>
>> /Søren
>>
>> On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:
>>>
>>> +1up on Groovy Stars.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Get a life" ;-)
>>>
>>> But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider
>>> whether that name really sends the right professional message with 
>>> regards
>>> to Groovy ? I am convinced it does not.
>>> Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a project
>>> are typically conservative and sensitive to those things, and they do 
>>> not
>>> normally follow nerd humor... (next suggestion I see coming along the
>>> Stars-crossed-line, is to call Paul and Jochen "Groovy All Stars")
>>>
>>> As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the Nintendo
>>> Switch might become a reality:
>>> http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-
>>> leaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun >> > wrote:
>>>
 Hi Paul,

  “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java
 Champions"
 easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me
 associate "Song
 Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not
 associate
 as I do...

   Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current
 "Grape"
 as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...

   To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.

 Cheers,
 Daniel.Sun

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

2018-02-20 Thread Søren Berg Glasius

Are we at a point where there should be put out a vote for which name to
use? There are several good ones, and a few not so good... not judging
however :D

On Tue, 20 Feb 2018 at 11:07 Guillaume Laforge  wrote:

> Or even GrooVIP :-D
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:20 AM, Cédric Champeau <
> cedric.champ...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I agree with Guillaume: MVP sounds "Minimal Viable Product" in my head :)
>> Anoter option: VIP ;)
>>
>> 2018-02-20 <20%2018%2002%2020> 8:32 GMT+01:00 Jennifer Strater <
>> jenn.stra...@gmail.com>:
>>
>>> Although there seems to be a lot of disagreement about the name,
>>> everyone seems to be in favor of the idea. What is the next step, Paul?
>>>
>>>
>>> On 20. Feb 2018, at 07:56, Peter McNeil  wrote:
>>>
>>> You're all missing the obvious "Groovy GR8" :-)
>>>
>>> On 20/02/18 11:35, Paul King wrote:
>>>
>>> Supreme Thanks Award Recognising contributions? :-)
>>>
>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Kostas Saidis  wrote:
>>>
 My own few cents, too:

 Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP all have their pros and cons.
 I would suggest something along the lines of Groovy Exceptional Community
 Member (Groovy ECM) or Groovy Distinguished Community Member (Groovy DCM).
 New acronym, professional enough, focusing on the overall community and not
 only the language per se.

 Kostas


 On 19/2/2018 10:26 μμ, MG wrote:

 I have never heard "MVP" =  "Minimum Viable Product", so I doubt this
 would pose a problem. Also do you suggest that people would actually read
 "Groovy has announced its Minimum Viable Products of 2018" ?
 STAR has 129 meanings as an acronym, btw, according to
 https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/STAR

 On 19.02.2018 20:39, Guillaume Laforge wrote:

 For me, MVP sounds too much like Minimum Viable Product :
 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product

 On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:32 PM, MG  wrote:

> Following the sports analogy, what about
>
> "Groovy MVPs"
>
> ?
>
> Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is typically
> crowned in the US), and I think "Groovy announced its 2018 MVPs" has a 
> nice
> ring to it.
>
> Cheers,
> mg
>
>
>
> On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:
>
> I disagree with MG.
>
> A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on the
> Groovy language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both 
> professional,
> and since it can be directly linked to the star in the Groovy logo I think
> it makes perfect sense. In sports you also have star players and in music
> (and Java) you have rock stars. That you can find examples that relates to
> games on Nintendo does not make a valid point IMO. The "All Stars" just
> makes it so much better - as that's what Paul, Jochen and others are .
>
> My few cents worth.
>
> /Søren
>
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:
>>
>> +1up on Groovy Stars.
>>
>>
>> "Get a life" ;-)
>>
>> But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider
>> whether that name really sends the right professional message with 
>> regards
>> to Groovy ? I am convinced it does not.
>> Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a project are
>> typically conservative and sensitive to those things, and they do not
>> normally follow nerd humor... (next suggestion I see coming along the
>> Stars-crossed-line, is to call Paul and Jochen "Groovy All Stars")
>>
>> As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the Nintendo
>> Switch might become a reality:
>>
>> http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-leaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Paul,
>>>
>>>  “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java
>>> Champions"
>>> easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me
>>> associate "Song
>>> Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not
>>> associate
>>> as I do...
>>>
>>>   Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current
>>> "Grape"
>>> as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...
>>>
>>>   To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Daniel.Sun
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from:
>>> http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
> Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
> Søren Berg Glasius
>
> Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
> Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88 <+45%2040%2044%2091%2088>, Skype: sbglasius
>

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

2018-02-20 Thread Guillaume Laforge

Or even GrooVIP :-D

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 9:20 AM, Cédric Champeau 
wrote:

> I agree with Guillaume: MVP sounds "Minimal Viable Product" in my head :)
> Anoter option: VIP ;)
>
> 2018-02-20 8:32 GMT+01:00 Jennifer Strater :
>
>> Although there seems to be a lot of disagreement about the name, everyone
>> seems to be in favor of the idea. What is the next step, Paul?
>>
>>
>> On 20. Feb 2018, at 07:56, Peter McNeil  wrote:
>>
>> You're all missing the obvious "Groovy GR8" :-)
>>
>> On 20/02/18 11:35, Paul King wrote:
>>
>> Supreme Thanks Award Recognising contributions? :-)
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Kostas Saidis  wrote:
>>
>>> My own few cents, too:
>>>
>>> Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP all have their pros and cons. I
>>> would suggest something along the lines of Groovy Exceptional Community
>>> Member (Groovy ECM) or Groovy Distinguished Community Member (Groovy DCM).
>>> New acronym, professional enough, focusing on the overall community and not
>>> only the language per se.
>>>
>>> Kostas
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19/2/2018 10:26 μμ, MG wrote:
>>>
>>> I have never heard "MVP" =  "Minimum Viable Product", so I doubt this
>>> would pose a problem. Also do you suggest that people would actually read
>>> "Groovy has announced its Minimum Viable Products of 2018" ?
>>> STAR has 129 meanings as an acronym, btw, according to
>>> https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/STAR
>>>
>>> On 19.02.2018 20:39, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
>>>
>>> For me, MVP sounds too much like Minimum Viable Product :
>>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product
>>>
>>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:32 PM, MG  wrote:
>>>
 Following the sports analogy, what about

 "Groovy MVPs"

 ?

 Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is typically
 crowned in the US), and I think "Groovy announced its 2018 MVPs" has a nice
 ring to it.

 Cheers,
 mg



 On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:

 I disagree with MG.

 A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on the
 Groovy language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both professional,
 and since it can be directly linked to the star in the Groovy logo I think
 it makes perfect sense. In sports you also have star players and in music
 (and Java) you have rock stars. That you can find examples that relates to
 games on Nintendo does not make a valid point IMO. The "All Stars" just
 makes it so much better - as that's what Paul, Jochen and others are .

 My few cents worth.

 /Søren

 On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG  wrote:

>
>
> On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:
>
> +1up on Groovy Stars.
>
>
> "Get a life" ;-)
>
> But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider
> whether that name really sends the right professional message with regards
> to Groovy ? I am convinced it does not.
> Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a project are
> typically conservative and sensitive to those things, and they do not
> normally follow nerd humor... (next suggestion I see coming along the
> Stars-crossed-line, is to call Paul and Jochen "Groovy All Stars")
>
> As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the Nintendo
> Switch might become a reality:
> http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-l
> eaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>>  “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java Champions"
>> easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me associate
>> "Song
>> Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not
>> associate
>> as I do...
>>
>>   Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current
>> "Grape"
>> as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...
>>
>>   To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel.Sun
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble
>> .com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
>>
>
>
> --
 Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
 Søren Berg Glasius

 Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
 Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88 <+45%2040%2044%2091%2088>, Skype: sbglasius
 --- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.



>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Guillaume Laforge
>>> Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
>>> Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform
>>>
>>> Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
>>> Social: @glaforge  / Google+
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> web: http://nerderg.com
>> Twitter: http://twitter.com/pmcneil

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

2018-02-20 Thread Cédric Champeau

I agree with Guillaume: MVP sounds "Minimal Viable Product" in my head :)
Anoter option: VIP ;)

2018-02-20 8:32 GMT+01:00 Jennifer Strater :

> Although there seems to be a lot of disagreement about the name, everyone
> seems to be in favor of the idea. What is the next step, Paul?
>
>
> On 20. Feb 2018, at 07:56, Peter McNeil  wrote:
>
> You're all missing the obvious "Groovy GR8" :-)
>
> On 20/02/18 11:35, Paul King wrote:
>
> Supreme Thanks Award Recognising contributions? :-)
>
> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Kostas Saidis  wrote:
>
>> My own few cents, too:
>>
>> Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP all have their pros and cons. I
>> would suggest something along the lines of Groovy Exceptional Community
>> Member (Groovy ECM) or Groovy Distinguished Community Member (Groovy DCM).
>> New acronym, professional enough, focusing on the overall community and not
>> only the language per se.
>>
>> Kostas
>>
>>
>> On 19/2/2018 10:26 μμ, MG wrote:
>>
>> I have never heard "MVP" =  "Minimum Viable Product", so I doubt this
>> would pose a problem. Also do you suggest that people would actually read
>> "Groovy has announced its Minimum Viable Products of 2018" ?
>> STAR has 129 meanings as an acronym, btw, according to
>> https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/STAR
>>
>> On 19.02.2018 20:39, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
>>
>> For me, MVP sounds too much like Minimum Viable Product :
>> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product
>>
>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:32 PM, MG  wrote:
>>
>>> Following the sports analogy, what about
>>>
>>> "Groovy MVPs"
>>>
>>> ?
>>>
>>> Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is typically
>>> crowned in the US), and I think "Groovy announced its 2018 MVPs" has a nice
>>> ring to it.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> mg
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:
>>>
>>> I disagree with MG.
>>>
>>> A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on the
>>> Groovy language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both professional,
>>> and since it can be directly linked to the star in the Groovy logo I think
>>> it makes perfect sense. In sports you also have star players and in music
>>> (and Java) you have rock stars. That you can find examples that relates to
>>> games on Nintendo does not make a valid point IMO. The "All Stars" just
>>> makes it so much better - as that's what Paul, Jochen and others are .
>>>
>>> My few cents worth.
>>>
>>> /Søren
>>>
>>> On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG  wrote:
>>>


 On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:

 +1up on Groovy Stars.


 "Get a life" ;-)

 But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider
 whether that name really sends the right professional message with regards
 to Groovy ? I am convinced it does not.
 Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a project are
 typically conservative and sensitive to those things, and they do not
 normally follow nerd humor... (next suggestion I see coming along the
 Stars-crossed-line, is to call Paul and Jochen "Groovy All Stars")

 As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the Nintendo
 Switch might become a reality:
 http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-l
 eaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game




 On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun 
 wrote:

> Hi Paul,
>
>  “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java Champions"
> easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me associate
> "Song
> Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not
> associate
> as I do...
>
>   Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current
> "Grape"
> as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...
>
>   To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble
> .com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
>


 --
>>> Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
>>> Søren Berg Glasius
>>>
>>> Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
>>> Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88 <+45%2040%2044%2091%2088>, Skype: sbglasius
>>> --- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume Laforge
>> Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
>> Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform
>>
>> Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
>> Social: @glaforge  / Google+
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> web: http://nerderg.com
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/pmcneil
> Google+: https://plus.google.com/u/0/communities/110661434396927001866
>
>

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

2018-02-19 Thread Jennifer Strater

Although there seems to be a lot of disagreement about the name, everyone seems 
to be in favor of the idea. What is the next step, Paul?

> On 20. Feb 2018, at 07:56, Peter McNeil  wrote:
> 
> You're all missing the obvious "Groovy GR8" :-)
> 
>> On 20/02/18 11:35, Paul King wrote:
>> Supreme Thanks Award Recognising contributions? :-)
>> 
>>> On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Kostas Saidis  wrote:
>>> My own few cents, too:
>>> 
>>> Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP all have their pros and cons. I 
>>> would suggest something along the lines of Groovy Exceptional Community 
>>> Member (Groovy ECM) or Groovy Distinguished Community Member (Groovy DCM). 
>>> New acronym, professional enough, focusing on the overall community and not 
>>> only the language per se.
>>> 
>>> Kostas
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On 19/2/2018 10:26 μμ, MG wrote:
 I have never heard "MVP" =  "Minimum Viable Product", so I doubt this 
 would pose a problem. Also do you suggest that people would actually read 
 "Groovy has announced its Minimum Viable Products of 2018" ?
 STAR has 129 meanings as an acronym, btw, according to 
 https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/STAR
 
> On 19.02.2018 20:39, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
> For me, MVP sounds too much like Minimum Viable Product :
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product
> 
>> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:32 PM, MG  wrote:
>> Following the sports analogy, what about 
>> 
>> "Groovy MVPs" 
>> 
>> ?
>> 
>> Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is typically 
>> crowned in the US), and I think "Groovy announced its 2018 MVPs" has a 
>> nice ring to it.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> mg
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:
>>> I disagree with MG.
>>> 
>>> A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on the 
>>> Groovy language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both 
>>> professional, and since it can be directly linked to the star in the 
>>> Groovy logo I think it makes perfect sense. In sports you also have 
>>> star players and in music (and Java) you have rock stars. That you can 
>>> find examples that relates to games on Nintendo does not make a valid 
>>> point IMO. The "All Stars" just makes it so much better - as that's 
>>> what Paul, Jochen and others are .
>>> 
>>> My few cents worth.
>>> 
>>> /Søren
>>> 
 On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG  wrote:
 
 
> On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:
> +1up on Groovy Stars. 
 
 "Get a life" ;-)
 
 But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider 
 whether that name really sends the right professional message with 
 regards to Groovy ? I am convinced it does not. 
 Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a project are 
 typically conservative and sensitive to those things, and they do not 
 normally follow nerd humor... (next suggestion I see coming along the 
 Stars-crossed-line, is to call Paul and Jochen "Groovy All Stars")
 
 As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the Nintendo 
 Switch might become a reality:
 http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-leaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game
 
 
 
> 
>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun 
>>  wrote:
>> Hi Paul,
>> 
>>  “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java 
>> Champions"
>> easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me 
>> associate "Song
>> Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not 
>> associate
>> as I do...
>> 
>>   Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current 
>> "Grape"
>> as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...
>> 
>>   To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel.Sun
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Sent from: 
>> http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
> 
 
>>> -- 
>>> Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
>>> Søren Berg Glasius
>>> 
>>> Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
>>> Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88, Skype: sbglasius
>>> --- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.
>> 
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Guillaume Laforge
> Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
> Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform
> 
> Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
> Social: @glaforge / Google+
 
>>> 
>> 
> 
> -- 
> web: http://nerderg.com
> Twitter: http://twitter.com/pmcneil
> Google+: https:/

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

2018-02-19 Thread Peter McNeil


You're all missing the obvious "Groovy GR8" :-)


On 20/02/18 11:35, Paul King wrote:

Supreme Thanks Award Recognising contributions? :-)

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Kostas Saidis > wrote:


My own few cents, too:

Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP all have their pros and
cons. I would suggest something along the lines of Groovy
Exceptional Community Member (Groovy ECM) or Groovy Distinguished
Community Member (Groovy DCM). New acronym, professional enough,
focusing on the overall community and not only the language per se.

Kostas


On 19/2/2018 10:26 μμ, MG wrote:

I have never heard "MVP" = "Minimum Viable Product", so I doubt
this would pose a problem. Also do you suggest that people would
actually read "Groovy has announced its Minimum Viable Products
of 2018" ?
STAR has 129 meanings as an acronym, btw, according to
https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/STAR


On 19.02.2018 20:39, Guillaume Laforge wrote:

For me, MVP sounds too much like Minimum Viable Product :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product


On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:32 PM, MG mailto:mg...@arscreat.com>> wrote:

Following the sports analogy, what about

"Groovy MVPs"

?

Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is
typically crowned in the US), and I think "Groovy announced
its 2018 MVPs" has a nice ring to it.

Cheers,
mg



On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:

I disagree with MG.

A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines
light on the Groovy language and ecosystem. Hence I think
the name is both professional, and since it can be directly
linked to the star in the Groovy logo I think it makes
perfect sense. In sports you also have star players and in
music (and Java) you have rock stars. That you can find
examples that relates to games on Nintendo does not make a
valid point IMO. The "All Stars" just makes it so much
better - as that's what Paul, Jochen and others are .

My few cents worth.

/Søren

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG mailto:mg...@arscreat.com>> wrote:



On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:

+1up on Groovy Stars.


"Get a life" ;-)

But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars"
- consider whether that name really sends the right
professional message with regards to Groovy ? I am
convinced it does not.
Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in
a project are typically conservative and sensitive to
those things, and they do not normally follow nerd
humor... (next suggestion I see coming along the
Stars-crossed-line, is to call Paul and Jochen "Groovy
All Stars")

As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on
the Nintendo Switch might become a reality:

http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-leaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game







On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun
mailto:realblue...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Paul,

     “Groovy Champions” make people associate it
with "Java Champions"
easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting
but let me associate "Song
Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other
people would not associate
as I do...

      Similarly, many years ago some one suggested
to name current "Grape"
as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but
not formal...

      To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun



--
Sent from:
http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html





-- 
Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,

Søren Berg Glasius

Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88 ,
Skype: sbglasius
--- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.





-- 
Guillaume Laforge

Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform

Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/ 
Social: @glaforge  / Goog

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

2018-02-19 Thread Paul King

Supreme Thanks Award Recognising contributions? :-)

On Tue, Feb 20, 2018 at 7:08 AM, Kostas Saidis  wrote:

> My own few cents, too:
>
> Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP all have their pros and cons. I
> would suggest something along the lines of Groovy Exceptional Community
> Member (Groovy ECM) or Groovy Distinguished Community Member (Groovy DCM).
> New acronym, professional enough, focusing on the overall community and not
> only the language per se.
>
> Kostas
>
>
> On 19/2/2018 10:26 μμ, MG wrote:
>
> I have never heard "MVP" =  "Minimum Viable Product", so I doubt this
> would pose a problem. Also do you suggest that people would actually read
> "Groovy has announced its Minimum Viable Products of 2018" ?
> STAR has 129 meanings as an acronym, btw, according to https://acronyms.
> thefreedictionary.com/STAR
>
> On 19.02.2018 20:39, Guillaume Laforge wrote:
>
> For me, MVP sounds too much like Minimum Viable Product :
> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product
>
> On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:32 PM, MG  wrote:
>
>> Following the sports analogy, what about
>>
>> "Groovy MVPs"
>>
>> ?
>>
>> Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is typically
>> crowned in the US), and I think "Groovy announced its 2018 MVPs" has a nice
>> ring to it.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> mg
>>
>>
>>
>> On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:
>>
>> I disagree with MG.
>>
>> A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on the
>> Groovy language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both professional,
>> and since it can be directly linked to the star in the Groovy logo I think
>> it makes perfect sense. In sports you also have star players and in music
>> (and Java) you have rock stars. That you can find examples that relates to
>> games on Nintendo does not make a valid point IMO. The "All Stars" just
>> makes it so much better - as that's what Paul, Jochen and others are .
>>
>> My few cents worth.
>>
>> /Søren
>>
>> On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG  wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:
>>>
>>> +1up on Groovy Stars.
>>>
>>>
>>> "Get a life" ;-)
>>>
>>> But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider
>>> whether that name really sends the right professional message with regards
>>> to Groovy ? I am convinced it does not.
>>> Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a project are
>>> typically conservative and sensitive to those things, and they do not
>>> normally follow nerd humor... (next suggestion I see coming along the
>>> Stars-crossed-line, is to call Paul and Jochen "Groovy All Stars")
>>>
>>> As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the Nintendo Switch
>>> might become a reality:
>>> http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-l
>>> eaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Hi Paul,

  “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java Champions"
 easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me associate
 "Song
 Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not
 associate
 as I do...

   Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current
 "Grape"
 as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...

   To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.

 Cheers,
 Daniel.Sun



 --
 Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>> Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
>> Søren Berg Glasius
>>
>> Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
>> Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88 <+45%2040%2044%2091%2088>, Skype: sbglasius
>> --- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.
>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Guillaume Laforge
> Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
> Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform
>
> Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
> Social: @glaforge  / Google+
> 
>
>
>
>

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

2018-02-19 Thread Kostas Saidis


My own few cents, too:

Groovy Star, Groovy Champion, Groovy MVP all have their pros and cons. I 
would suggest something along the lines of Groovy Exceptional Community 
Member (Groovy ECM) or Groovy Distinguished Community Member (Groovy 
DCM). New acronym, professional enough, focusing on the overall 
community and not only the language per se.


Kostas

On 19/2/2018 10:26 μμ, MG wrote:
I have never heard "MVP" =  "Minimum Viable Product", so I doubt this 
would pose a problem. Also do you suggest that people would actually 
read "Groovy has announced its Minimum Viable Products of 2018" ?
STAR has 129 meanings as an acronym, btw, according to 
https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/STAR


On 19.02.2018 20:39, Guillaume Laforge wrote:

For me, MVP sounds too much like Minimum Viable Product :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:32 PM, MG > wrote:


Following the sports analogy, what about

"Groovy MVPs"

?

Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is
typically crowned in the US), and I think "Groovy announced its
2018 MVPs" has a nice ring to it.

Cheers,
mg



On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:

I disagree with MG.

A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light
on the Groovy language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is
both professional, and since it can be directly linked to the
star in the Groovy logo I think it makes perfect sense. In
sports you also have star players and in music (and Java) you
have rock stars. That you can find examples that relates to
games on Nintendo does not make a valid point IMO. The "All
Stars" just makes it so much better - as that's what Paul,
Jochen and others are .

My few cents worth.

/Søren

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG mailto:mg...@arscreat.com>> wrote:



On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:

+1up on Groovy Stars.


"Get a life" ;-)

But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" -
consider whether that name really sends the right
professional message with regards to Groovy ? I am convinced
it does not.
Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a
project are typically conservative and sensitive to those
things, and they do not normally follow nerd humor... (next
suggestion I see coming along the Stars-crossed-line, is to
call Paul and Jochen "Groovy All Stars")

As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the
Nintendo Switch might become a reality:

http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-leaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game







On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun
mailto:realblue...@hotmail.com>>
wrote:

Hi Paul,

     “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with
"Java Champions"
easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but
let me associate "Song
Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people
would not associate
as I do...

      Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to
name current "Grape"
as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not
formal...

      To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun



--
Sent from:
http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html





-- 
Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,

Søren Berg Glasius

Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88 , Skype:
sbglasius
--- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.





--
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform

Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
Social: @glaforge  / Google+

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

2018-02-19 Thread MG

I have never heard "MVP" =  "Minimum Viable Product", so I doubt this 
would pose a problem. Also do you suggest that people would actually 
read "Groovy has announced its Minimum Viable Products of 2018" ?
STAR has 129 meanings as an acronym, btw, according to 
https://acronyms.thefreedictionary.com/STAR


On 19.02.2018 20:39, Guillaume Laforge wrote:

For me, MVP sounds too much like Minimum Viable Product :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:32 PM, MG > wrote:


Following the sports analogy, what about

"Groovy MVPs"

?

Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is
typically crowned in the US), and I think "Groovy announced its
2018 MVPs" has a nice ring to it.

Cheers,
mg



On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:

I disagree with MG.

A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on
the Groovy language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both
professional, and since it can be directly linked to the star in
the Groovy logo I think it makes perfect sense. In sports you
also have star players and in music (and Java) you have rock
stars. That you can find examples that relates to games on
Nintendo does not make a valid point IMO. The "All Stars" just
makes it so much better - as that's what Paul, Jochen and others
are .

My few cents worth.

/Søren

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG mailto:mg...@arscreat.com>> wrote:



On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:

+1up on Groovy Stars.


"Get a life" ;-)

But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" -
consider whether that name really sends the right
professional message with regards to Groovy ? I am convinced
it does not.
Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a
project are typically conservative and sensitive to those
things, and they do not normally follow nerd humor... (next
suggestion I see coming along the Stars-crossed-line, is to
call Paul and Jochen "Groovy All Stars")

As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the
Nintendo Switch might become a reality:

http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-leaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game







On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun
mailto:realblue...@hotmail.com>>
wrote:

Hi Paul,

     “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with
"Java Champions"
easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let
me associate "Song
Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people
would not associate
as I do...

      Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to
name current "Grape"
as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not
formal...

      To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun



--
Sent from:
http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html





-- 
Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,

Søren Berg Glasius

Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88 , Skype:
sbglasius
--- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.





--
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform

Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
Social: @glaforge  / Google+

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

2018-02-19 Thread Guillaume Laforge

For me, MVP sounds too much like Minimum Viable Product :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minimum_viable_product

On Mon, Feb 19, 2018 at 8:32 PM, MG  wrote:

> Following the sports analogy, what about
>
> "Groovy MVPs"
>
> ?
>
> Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is typically
> crowned in the US), and I think "Groovy announced its 2018 MVPs" has a nice
> ring to it.
>
> Cheers,
> mg
>
>
>
> On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:
>
> I disagree with MG.
>
> A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on the
> Groovy language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both professional,
> and since it can be directly linked to the star in the Groovy logo I think
> it makes perfect sense. In sports you also have star players and in music
> (and Java) you have rock stars. That you can find examples that relates to
> games on Nintendo does not make a valid point IMO. The "All Stars" just
> makes it so much better - as that's what Paul, Jochen and others are .
>
> My few cents worth.
>
> /Søren
>
> On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG  wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:
>>
>> +1up on Groovy Stars.
>>
>>
>> "Get a life" ;-)
>>
>> But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider
>> whether that name really sends the right professional message with regards
>> to Groovy ? I am convinced it does not.
>> Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a project are
>> typically conservative and sensitive to those things, and they do not
>> normally follow nerd humor... (next suggestion I see coming along the
>> Stars-crossed-line, is to call Paul and Jochen "Groovy All Stars")
>>
>> As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the Nintendo Switch
>> might become a reality:
>> http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-
>> leaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Paul,
>>>
>>>  “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java Champions"
>>> easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me associate
>>> "Song
>>> Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not
>>> associate
>>> as I do...
>>>
>>>   Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current
>>> "Grape"
>>> as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...
>>>
>>>   To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.
>>>
>>> Cheers,
>>> Daniel.Sun
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
> Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
> Søren Berg Glasius
>
> Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
> Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88 <+45%2040%2044%2091%2088>, Skype: sbglasius
> --- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.
>
>
>


-- 
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform

Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
Social: @glaforge  / Google+

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback - Groovy MVPs ?

2018-02-19 Thread MG


Following the sports analogy, what about

"Groovy MVPs"

?

Any game can have Most Valuable Players (even if only one is typically 
crowned in the US), and I think "Groovy announced its 2018 MVPs" has a 
nice ring to it.


Cheers,
mg



On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:

I disagree with MG.

A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on the 
Groovy language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both 
professional, and since it can be directly linked to the star in the 
Groovy logo I think it makes perfect sense. In sports you also have 
star players and in music (and Java) you have rock stars. That you can 
find examples that relates to games on Nintendo does not make a valid 
point IMO. The "All Stars" just makes it so much better - as that's 
what Paul, Jochen and others are .


My few cents worth.

/Søren

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG > wrote:




On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:

+1up on Groovy Stars.


"Get a life" ;-)

But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider
whether that name really sends the right professional message with
regards to Groovy ? I am convinced it does not.
Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a project
are typically conservative and sensitive to those things, and they
do not normally follow nerd humor... (next suggestion I see coming
along the Stars-crossed-line, is to call Paul and Jochen "Groovy
All Stars")

As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the Nintendo
Switch might become a reality:

http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-leaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game





On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun
mailto:realblue...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Paul,

     “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java
Champions"
easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me
associate "Song
Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would
not associate
as I do...

      Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name
current "Grape"
as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...

      To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun



--
Sent from:
http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html




--
Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
Søren Berg Glasius

Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88, Skype: sbglasius
--- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-19 Thread MG


Hi Søren,

I agree that they are all stars. One can have all stars without having 
"Groovy Stars" however ;-)


Regarding your arguments, I in turn disagree :-)

1. I think that the image of star as a celestial body is not the
   typical association with the word in this context, especially if
   used in plural (i.e. Groovy Stars).
2. As I have said before, the star in the Groovy logo can imho easily
   be missed (on the Apache Groovy start page it is even partially cut
   off), so the link here to me is weak.
3. Since many people in this industry have most probably played
   Nintendo games (at least) when they were younger, I uphold the
   validity of my argument regarding this association.
4. "Rock Stars" in the Java world are "Rock Star speakers at Java One",
   i.e. people who give presentations that, are supposed to "rock". The
   term "rock star" associates with a certain amount or coolness and
   rebellion - things that are typically absent from Java conferences,
   so it is clear why they would like to inject that by choosing the
   term ;-)
5. "Star players" in e.g. sports are exactly that: People who make a
   lot of money and are known and are revered by millions of people.
   Calling yourself a "star" if you are not even close to that level
   feels tacky to me.

Cheers,
mg



On 19.02.2018 12:03, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:

I disagree with MG.

A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on the 
Groovy language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both 
professional, and since it can be directly linked to the star in the 
Groovy logo I think it makes perfect sense. In sports you also have 
star players and in music (and Java) you have rock stars. That you can 
find examples that relates to games on Nintendo does not make a valid 
point IMO. The "All Stars" just makes it so much better - as that's 
what Paul, Jochen and others are .


My few cents worth.

/Søren

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG > wrote:




On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:

+1up on Groovy Stars.


"Get a life" ;-)

But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider
whether that name really sends the right professional message with
regards to Groovy ? I am convinced it does not.
Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a project
are typically conservative and sensitive to those things, and they
do not normally follow nerd humor... (next suggestion I see coming
along the Stars-crossed-line, is to call Paul and Jochen "Groovy
All Stars")

As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the Nintendo
Switch might become a reality:

http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-leaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game





On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun
mailto:realblue...@hotmail.com>> wrote:

Hi Paul,

     “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java
Champions"
easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me
associate "Song
Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would
not associate
as I do...

      Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name
current "Grape"
as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...

      To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun



--
Sent from:
http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html




--
Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
Søren Berg Glasius

Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88, Skype: sbglasius
--- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-19 Thread Søren Berg Glasius

I disagree with MG.

A star is an object that shines, and in this case shines light on the
Groovy language and ecosystem. Hence I think the name is both professional,
and since it can be directly linked to the star in the Groovy logo I think
it makes perfect sense. In sports you also have star players and in music
(and Java) you have rock stars. That you can find examples that relates to
games on Nintendo does not make a valid point IMO. The "All Stars" just
makes it so much better - as that's what Paul, Jochen and others are .

My few cents worth.

/Søren

On Sun, 18 Feb 2018 at 17:02 MG  wrote:

>
>
> On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:
>
> +1up on Groovy Stars.
>
>
> "Get a life" ;-)
>
> But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider whether
> that name really sends the right professional message with regards to
> Groovy ? I am convinced it does not.
> Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a project are
> typically conservative and sensitive to those things, and they do not
> normally follow nerd humor... (next suggestion I see coming along the
> Stars-crossed-line, is to call Paul and Jochen "Groovy All Stars")
>
> As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the Nintendo Switch
> might become a reality:
>
> http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-leaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>>  “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java Champions"
>> easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me associate
>> "Song
>> Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not
>> associate
>> as I do...
>>
>>   Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current "Grape"
>> as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...
>>
>>   To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel.Sun
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
>>
>
>
> --
Best regards / Med venlig hilsen,
Søren Berg Glasius

Hedevej 1, Gl. Rye, 8680 Ry, Denmark
Mobile: +45 40 44 91 88, Skype: sbglasius
--- Press ESC once to quit - twice to save the changes.

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-19 Thread Guillaume Laforge

It's definitely not just for code contributions, but people who contribute
more widely / globally / generally to the project and its ecosystem.
So people running Groovy conferences are indeed great candidates to become
Stars / Champions :-)

Guillaume

On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 1:38 PM, Eric Kinsella 
wrote:

> +1up on Groovy Stars.
>
> Also please consider not just language contributions but those from
> community organizers like Søren Glasius && Shaun Jurgemeyer!
>
> Cheers,
> Eric Kinsella
>
>
> On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi Paul,
>>
>>  “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java Champions"
>> easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me associate
>> "Song
>> Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not
>> associate
>> as I do...
>>
>>   Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current "Grape"
>> as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...
>>
>>   To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.
>>
>> Cheers,
>> Daniel.Sun
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
>>
>
>


-- 
Guillaume Laforge
Apache Groovy committer & PMC Vice-President
Developer Advocate @ Google Cloud Platform

Blog: http://glaforge.appspot.com/
Social: @glaforge  / Google+

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-18 Thread MG




On 18.02.2018 13:38, Eric Kinsella wrote:

+1up on Groovy Stars.


"Get a life" ;-)

But seriously, all the people one-upping "Groovy Stars" - consider 
whether that name really sends the right professional message with 
regards to Groovy ? I am convinced it does not.
Managers who might decide whether Groovy can be used in a project are 
typically conservative and sensitive to those things, and they do not 
normally follow nerd humor... (next suggestion I see coming along the 
Stars-crossed-line, is to call Paul and Jochen "Groovy All Stars")


As another example, it looks like "Pokemon Stars" on the Nintendo Switch 
might become a reality:

http://www.techradar.com/news/pokemon-stars-all-the-latest-leaks-from-the-rumored-nintendo-switch-game




On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun > wrote:


Hi Paul,

     “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java Champions"
easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me
associate "Song
Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not
associate
as I do...

      Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current
"Grape"
as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...

      To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun



--
Sent from:
http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-18 Thread Eric Kinsella

+1up on Groovy Stars.

Also please consider not just language contributions but those from
community organizers like Søren Glasius && Shaun Jurgemeyer!

Cheers,
Eric Kinsella


On Sun, Feb 18, 2018 at 6:13 AM, Daniel Sun  wrote:

> Hi Paul,
>
>  “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java Champions"
> easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me associate "Song
> Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not associate
> as I do...
>
>   Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current "Grape"
> as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...
>
>   To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.
>
> Cheers,
> Daniel.Sun
>
>
>
> --
> Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html
>

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-18 Thread Daniel Sun

Hi Paul,

 “Groovy Champions” make people associate it with "Java Champions"
easily. As for "Groovy Stars", it is interesting but let me associate "Song
Stars" and "Kungfu Stars" easily... I wish other people would not associate
as I do...

  Similarly, many years ago some one suggested to name current "Grape"
as "Groovy Baby", the latter is interesting but not formal...

  To sum up, +1 to “Groovy Champions”.

Cheers,
Daniel.Sun



--
Sent from: http://groovy.329449.n5.nabble.com/Groovy-Users-f329450.html

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

I do not remember anyone ever listing some negative side effects - very 
interested to learn about this, since up to now it was only ever "Groovy 
already has support for that through @Newify" (which I evidently do not 
agree with :-) ).


Apart from that: Much of the Groovy goodness comes from its syntax, 
which also consists of allowing to leave unecessary things away. 
Otherwise it could still require a semicolon at the end of each line, or 
require brackets around arguments, or to supply last-parameter-closure 
arguments to be given inside method argument brackets, or not allow 
closures without an explicit empty parameter list, or not support "it" 
as single closure argument name, etc etc.


So right now I do not understand that argument at all, but maybe the 
negative side effects you mentioned will make this clear :-)


(The "new" operator in Java (and consecutively Groovy) is an artifact 
coming from C++, where stack based alloaction uses the ctor call alone, 
and the new keyword before the ctor call result in heap allocation - 
which is of course the only allocation variety supported in Java/Groovy, 
so no need to discern between the two cases exist...)


Cheers,
mg


On 16.02.2018 01:55, Jochen Theodorou wrote:

On 15.02.2018 06:04, MG wrote:
One other thing from the no-brainers section that Kotlin does better 
than Groovy: Ctors can be called without the new keyword.
(Groovy's offer in this regard is alas severly lacking, hence nobody 
uses it...)


I know this from Scala, how is the usage of this in Kotlin? Just to 
not to have to write "new" is not enough of an advantage for me to 
implement this and get all the negative side effects. There must be 
more to the usage than just that. And I assume there is in Kotlin, 
which I do not know about


bye Jochen

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback




On 16.02.2018 01:52, Jochen Theodorou wrote:
for the named parameters support the map solution does only not 
suffice for the static compiler in the end... A pragmatic solution 
would be to say foo(x:1) can call foo(int) if the parameter is named x 
and that this call is taken even if there is a foo(Map) variant, plus 
that dynamic Groovy will always call the map variant. And then 
somebody has to implement this based on the java8 parameter 
information (which means java8 will be required for this feature of 
course). All doable, given time


While I like the flexibility of being dynamic in Groovy, the static, 
type safe case is imho important ( see also my recent groovypp comment), 
and I think there is currently also a rediscovery of the fact, that the 
larger a software project, the more static typing becomes valuable (see 
e.g also TypeScript vs JavaScript).


Just being able to use named parameters for Groovy classes would already 
be a 95% solution, since for me the most important application would be 
to be able to easily extend ctors which already have a lot of arguments.


The existing map based solution does not help with that, in addition to 
Intellisense not being able to lend any support...


For me that would probably be the #1 feature I would fund :-)
Cheers,
mg

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback


On 16.02.2018 01:52, Jochen Theodorou wrote:
final variables with no explicit type not being of type Object is the 
case for type-checked variant and in normal Groovy it does not play 
any role (not even the modifier does play a real role in the 
compilation result)


The following holds also for the dynamic case: In my (Groovy) framework 
I need to be able to filter properties/fields of classes by type. E.g.


final foo1 = new MyClass(...)

will have type Object, so I have to filter it by looking at the type of 
the value stored in foo1.


Giving

final MyClass foo1 = new Foo(...)

I can filter by looking at the type of foo1 - but it requires the 
framework user to unecessarily supply the type in the field definition.


Ironically IntelliJ Intellisense of course knows that foo1 is of type 
MyClass also in the first case ;-)
Intellisense will also warn of "final" violations in the dynamic case, 
even if Groovy ignores the setting.
And as always the argument remains that declaring things which are final 
as final is good for other people reading your code :-)


Cheers,
mg

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback


Hi Jochen,

On 16.02.2018 01:52, Jochen Theodorou wrote:
For me inline closures are not a no-brainer, not at all. just because 
their solution may look simple does not mean it was easy to develop or 
that it can be used for Groovy.


not being in any way used to thinking about how to extend/improve a 
computer language, it took me under 30min to arrive at the solution, 
which I later found Kotlin, it seemed, had already implemented (starting 
from my own implementation using exceptions, and the obvious other idea 
based on special return values (both ideas have been discussed for a 
long time by Groovy devs as I later learned)).


That makes it a no brainer to me, same as its benefits from a Groovy 
user's perspective: It is the fastest solution runtime wise, and has no 
surprising properties (caught exceptions, etc).


You are one of the experts on the implementation side, of course, and I 
am constantly surprised how many problems/side effects the 
implementation of the most innocent looking Groovy feature can have (a 
good learning experience to understand how a manager must feel when you 
try to explain to him that the seemingly small extension he envisions 
actually carries a lot of implementation effort, and also does not come 
free side effect wise). So the implementation side can easily be no 
no-brainer - but that does imho not make Kotlin a language with a 
language design that Groovy can learn from...


Cheers,
mg

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-15 Thread Jochen Theodorou


On 15.02.2018 06:04, MG wrote:
One other thing from the no-brainers section that Kotlin does better 
than Groovy: Ctors can be called without the new keyword.
(Groovy's offer in this regard is alas severly lacking, hence nobody 
uses it...)


I know this from Scala, how is the usage of this in Kotlin? Just to not 
to have to write "new" is not enough of an advantage for me to implement 
this and get all the negative side effects. There must be more to the 
usage than just that. And I assume there is in Kotlin, which I do not 
know about


bye Jochen

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-15 Thread Jochen Theodorou


On 14.02.2018 22:50, MG wrote:
[...]
but these are no-brainers, e.g. the semantics of inline closures, or 
that final variables with no explicit type are not of type Object, but 
of the type they were assigned, or named parameters support which does 
not try to force-map the problem to a (non type safe) map.


just wanting to comment here...

For me inline closures are not a no-brainer, not at all. just because 
their solution may look simple does not mean it was easy to develop or 
that it can be used for Groovy.


final variables with no explicit type not being of type Object is the 
case for type-checked variant and in normal Groovy it does not play any 
role (not even the modifier does play a real role in the compilation result)


for the named parameters support the map solution does only not suffice 
for the static compiler in the end... A pragmatic solution would be to 
say foo(x:1) can call foo(int) if the parameter is named x and that this 
call is taken even if there is a foo(Map) variant, plus that dynamic 
Groovy will always call the map variant. And then somebody has to 
implement this based on the java8 parameter information (which means 
java8 will be required for this feature of course). All doable, given time



bye Jochen

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

2018-02-15 Thread Jochen Theodorou


On 14.02.2018 22:38, MG wrote:
[...]
Would you suggest we also honor Groovy inventor James Strachan, who 
wrote in 2009 in his Blog "I can honestly say if someone had shown me 
the Programming in Scala book by by Martin Odersky, Lex Spoon & Bill 
Venners back in 2003 I'd probably have never created Groovy.":

http://macstrac.blogspot.co.at/2009/04/scala-as-long-term-replacement-for.html
https://www.quora.com/Is-Groovy-going-away-When-the-author-of-Groovy-says-he-would-have-never-created-Groovy-if-he-knew-about-Scala-then-it-makes-me-wonder-if-there-is-a-future-at-all
?


I counter with https://twitter.com/jstrachan/status/784333918078169088:


I still love groovy (jenkins pipelines are so groovy!), java, go, typescript 
and kotlin. I don’t use scala any more


I think that proofs, that this discussion with Scala is just not worth 
it really.


bye Jochen

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

One other thing from the no-brainers section that Kotlin does better 
than Groovy: Ctors can be called without the new keyword.
(Groovy's offer in this regard is alas severly lacking, hence nobody 
uses it...)

On 14.02.2018 22:50, MG wrote:
PPS: I do not agree with you assessment of Kotlin: Apart from it being 
always statically typed (less flexible than Groovy, but sometimes just 
all one needs, and definitely easier for Java-only-developers to wrap 
their head around; also helps avoid the annoying "only a scripting 
language" tag), I find it to be 95% Groovy, with an added 5% of really 
weird/bad syntactic/semantic decisions (Javascript type declarartion 
syntax, which works well for a very weakly typed language only were 
you seldom use it, and the imho clumsy non-null-syntax semantics).
Implementation wise they have done some things which Groovy should do, 
but these are no-brainers, e.g. the semantics of inline closures, or 
that final variables with no explicit type are not of type Object, but 
of the type they were assigned, or named parameters support which does 
not try to force-map the problem to a (non type safe) map.

On 14.02.2018 12:23, Cédric Champeau wrote:

Or for something with a bit more pep "Groovy Vanguard Developer /
Contributor 2018" or "Groovy Crack 2018".

Contrary to Java Champions, I would suggest tying it to a
specific year:

I like the idea of having it associated with a year, but it doesn't 
have to. Explanation below.

That way people who no longer are Groovy contributors do not
carry the title forever (the Russian guy who is now working on
Kotlin comes to mind)

His name is Alex Tkachman, and while he's not involved in the 
language anymore, he's still one of the biggest contributors to 
Groovy. Most of the performance improvements in the "legacy" (non 
indy) dynamic runtime of Groovy were from him and still active. He 
was also source of inspiration for the static compiler (Groovy++). I 
think he deserves the title more than lots of us. And I think we 
shouldn't go into the "he's gone to competition" route. Languages 
evolve, Kotlin is a very nice language, that took inspiration from us 
as well as others, and we have lots of things to learn from it too.

, and on the other hand some people could get the title several
years in a row, as a sign of continued gratitude.

If they do, they would be good candidates for the PMC.

Cheers,
mg

On 13.02.2018 14:13, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:

+1 on the name!

I think it's cool to differentiate the Groovy award from other
awards like Java Rock-stars and Java Champions, Grails
Rock-stars, and more!

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 14:09 Guillaume Laforge
mailto:glafo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It's funny, I think we didn't think about "stars" in our
previous conversations, and I must say I quite like it, and
it makes sense considering our logo :-D

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Jennifer Strater
mailto:jenn.stra...@gmail.com>> wrote:

+1 for the proposal and +1 for "Groovy Stars"

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:54 PM, Paul King
mailto:pa...@asert.com.au>> wrote:

I don't mind "Groovy Stars" as a name!

Of course it begs the question "Star trek" or "Star
Wars" - the long journey
of programming language design vs the language wars!
:-)

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:46 PM, Dierk König
mailto:dierk.koe...@canoo.com>> wrote:

I’m all for honoring contributions to the
language/ecosystem/community.
Given our logo, „Groovy Star“ comes to mind :-)

Cheers
Dierk

sent from:mobile

Am 13.02.2018 um 12:29 schrieb Paolo Di Tommaso
mailto:paolo.ditomm...@gmail.com>>:

It sound a nice idea also to promote the
visibility of the groovy community.

p

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Søren Berg
Glasius mailto:soe...@glasius.dk>> wrote:

I'm definitely +1

It is always important to recognize and
encourage the ones making a difference to
the community.

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 11:32 Schalk Cronjé
mailto:ysb...@gmail.com>> wrote:

That's a +1 from me for the concep.

On 13/02/2018 10:58, Paul King wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> A few of us have had various
discussions (in fact over many years)

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

PPS: I do not agree with you assessment of Kotlin: Apart from it being 
always statically typed (less flexible than Groovy, but sometimes just 
all one needs, and definitely easier for Java-only-developers to wrap 
their head around; also helps avoid the annoying "only a scripting 
language" tag), I find it to be 95% Groovy, with an added 5% of really 
weird/bad syntactic/semantic decisions (Javascript type declarartion 
syntax, which works well for a very weakly typed language only were you 
seldom use it, and the imho clumsy non-null-syntax semantics).
Implementation wise they have done some things which Groovy should do, 
but these are no-brainers, e.g. the semantics of inline closures, or 
that final variables with no explicit type are not of type Object, but 
of the type they were assigned, or named parameters support which does 
not try to force-map the problem to a (non type safe) map.

On 14.02.2018 12:23, Cédric Champeau wrote:

Or for something with a bit more pep "Groovy Vanguard Developer /
Contributor 2018" or "Groovy Crack 2018".

Contrary to Java Champions, I would suggest tying it to a specific
year:

I like the idea of having it associated with a year, but it doesn't 
have to. Explanation below.

That way people who no longer are Groovy contributors do not carry
the title forever (the Russian guy who is now working on Kotlin
comes to mind)

His name is Alex Tkachman, and while he's not involved in the language 
anymore, he's still one of the biggest contributors to Groovy. Most of 
the performance improvements in the "legacy" (non indy) dynamic 
runtime of Groovy were from him and still active. He was also source 
of inspiration for the static compiler (Groovy++). I think he deserves 
the title more than lots of us. And I think we shouldn't go into the 
"he's gone to competition" route. Languages evolve, Kotlin is a very 
nice language, that took inspiration from us as well as others, and we 
have lots of things to learn from it too.

, and on the other hand some people could get the title several
years in a row, as a sign of continued gratitude.

If they do, they would be good candidates for the PMC.

Cheers,
mg

On 13.02.2018 14:13, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:

+1 on the name!

I think it's cool to differentiate the Groovy award from other
awards like Java Rock-stars and Java Champions, Grails
Rock-stars, and more!

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 14:09 Guillaume Laforge
mailto:glafo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It's funny, I think we didn't think about "stars" in our
previous conversations, and I must say I quite like it, and
it makes sense considering our logo :-D

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Jennifer Strater
mailto:jenn.stra...@gmail.com>> wrote:

+1 for the proposal and +1 for "Groovy Stars"

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:54 PM, Paul King
mailto:pa...@asert.com.au>> wrote:

I don't mind "Groovy Stars" as a name!

Of course it begs the question "Star trek" or "Star
Wars" - the long journey
of programming language design vs the language wars! :-)

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:46 PM, Dierk König
mailto:dierk.koe...@canoo.com>> wrote:

I’m all for honoring contributions to the
language/ecosystem/community.
Given our logo, „Groovy Star“ comes to mind :-)

Cheers
Dierk

sent from:mobile

Am 13.02.2018 um 12:29 schrieb Paolo Di Tommaso
mailto:paolo.ditomm...@gmail.com>>:

It sound a nice idea also to promote the
visibility of the groovy community.

p

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Søren Berg
Glasius mailto:soe...@glasius.dk>> wrote:

I'm definitely +1

It is always important to recognize and
encourage the ones making a difference to
the community.

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 11:32 Schalk Cronjé
mailto:ysb...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

That's a +1 from me for the concep.

On 13/02/2018 10:58, Paul King wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> A few of us have had various
discussions (in fact over many years)
> about having a recognition scheme
similar to Java Champions,
> perhaps called "Groovy Champions" or
"Apache Groovy Champions"

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback

PS: The process by which Groovy honors shall be bestowed is another 
point that needs imho to be carefully considered, otherwise e.g. someone 
with 50+ Facebook friends can easily swing any vote (I have seen this 
happen before).

On 14.02.2018 12:23, Cédric Champeau wrote:

Or for something with a bit more pep "Groovy Vanguard Developer /
Contributor 2018" or "Groovy Crack 2018".

Contrary to Java Champions, I would suggest tying it to a specific
year:

I like the idea of having it associated with a year, but it doesn't 
have to. Explanation below.

That way people who no longer are Groovy contributors do not carry
the title forever (the Russian guy who is now working on Kotlin
comes to mind)

His name is Alex Tkachman, and while he's not involved in the language 
anymore, he's still one of the biggest contributors to Groovy. Most of 
the performance improvements in the "legacy" (non indy) dynamic 
runtime of Groovy were from him and still active. He was also source 
of inspiration for the static compiler (Groovy++). I think he deserves 
the title more than lots of us. And I think we shouldn't go into the 
"he's gone to competition" route. Languages evolve, Kotlin is a very 
nice language, that took inspiration from us as well as others, and we 
have lots of things to learn from it too.

, and on the other hand some people could get the title several
years in a row, as a sign of continued gratitude.

If they do, they would be good candidates for the PMC.

Cheers,
mg

On 13.02.2018 14:13, Søren Berg Glasius wrote:

+1 on the name!

I think it's cool to differentiate the Groovy award from other
awards like Java Rock-stars and Java Champions, Grails
Rock-stars, and more!

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 14:09 Guillaume Laforge
mailto:glafo...@gmail.com>> wrote:

It's funny, I think we didn't think about "stars" in our
previous conversations, and I must say I quite like it, and
it makes sense considering our logo :-D

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:58 PM, Jennifer Strater
mailto:jenn.stra...@gmail.com>> wrote:

+1 for the proposal and +1 for "Groovy Stars"

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 1:54 PM, Paul King
mailto:pa...@asert.com.au>> wrote:

I don't mind "Groovy Stars" as a name!

Of course it begs the question "Star trek" or "Star
Wars" - the long journey
of programming language design vs the language wars! :-)

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 9:46 PM, Dierk König
mailto:dierk.koe...@canoo.com>> wrote:

I’m all for honoring contributions to the
language/ecosystem/community.
Given our logo, „Groovy Star“ comes to mind :-)

Cheers
Dierk

sent from:mobile

Am 13.02.2018 um 12:29 schrieb Paolo Di Tommaso
mailto:paolo.ditomm...@gmail.com>>:

It sound a nice idea also to promote the
visibility of the groovy community.

p

On Tue, Feb 13, 2018 at 12:18 PM, Søren Berg
Glasius mailto:soe...@glasius.dk>> wrote:

I'm definitely +1

It is always important to recognize and
encourage the ones making a difference to
the community.

On Tue, 13 Feb 2018 at 11:32 Schalk Cronjé
mailto:ysb...@gmail.com>>
wrote:

That's a +1 from me for the concep.

On 13/02/2018 10:58, Paul King wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> A few of us have had various
discussions (in fact over many years)
> about having a recognition scheme
similar to Java Champions,
> perhaps called "Groovy Champions" or
"Apache Groovy Champions"
> or something else entirely if we think
of a better name.
>
> I think the idea has always been to
recognize contribution within the
> whole Groovy ecosystem not just the
Apache Groovy project. The many
> tens of projects within the ecosystem
are often where many ideas come
> from for the project's future
evolution and also where future contributors
> may a

Re: Groovy Champions proposal feedback