Re: [VOTE] KIP-657: Add Customized Kafka Streams Logo
> > > https://vanschneider.com/what-makes-a-good-logo > > > > > > > > P.P.S.: > > > > > > > > If I were to pick a logo for Streams, I’d choose something that fits > > well > > > > with Kafka and ksqlDB. > > > > > > > > ksqlDB has the rocket. > > > > I can’t remember (or find) the reasoning behind the Kafka logo (aside > > > from > > > > representing a K). Was there something about planets orbiting the > sun? > > Or > > > > was it the atom? > > > > > > > > So I might stick with a space/sience metaphor. > > > > Could Streams be a comet? UFO? Star? Eclipse? ... > > > > Maybe a satellite logo for Connect. > > > > > > > > Space inspiration: https://thenounproject.com/term/space/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Robin Moffatt > > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 6:24 PM > > > > To: users@kafka.apache.org > > > > Cc: d...@kafka.apache.org > > > > Subject: Re: [VOTE] KIP-657: Add Customized Kafka Streams Logo > > > > > > > > I echo what Michael says here. > > > > > > > > Another consideration is that logos are often shrunk (when used on > > > slides) > > > > and need to work at lower resolution (think: printing swag, stitching > > > > socks, etc) and so whatever logo we come up with needs to not be too > > > fiddly > > > > in the level of detail - something that I think both the current > > proposed > > > > options will fall foul of IMHO. > > > > > > > > > > > > On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 15:33, Michael Noll > > wrote: > > > > > > > > > Hi all! > > > > > > > > > > Great to see we are in the process of creating a cool logo for > Kafka > > > > > Streams. First, I apologize for sharing feedback so late -- I just > > > > learned > > > > > about it today. :-) > > > > > > > > > > Here's my *personal, subjective* opinion on the currently two logo > > > > > candidates for Kafka Streams. > > > > > > > > > > TL;DR: Sorry, but I really don't like either of the proposed > "otter" > > > > logos. > > > > > Let me try to explain why. > > > > > > > > > >- The choice to use an animal, regardless of which specific > > animal, > > > > >seems random and doesn't fit Kafka. (What's the purpose? To show > > > that > > > > >KStreams is 'cute'?) In comparison, the O’Reilly books always > have > > > an > > > > >animal cover, that’s their style, and it is very recognizable. > > > Kafka > > > > >however has its own, different style. The Kafka logo has clear, > > > > simple > > > > >lines to achieve an abstract and ‘techy’ look, which also > alludes > > > > > nicely to > > > > >its architectural simplicity. Its logo is also a smart play on > the > > > > >Kafka-identifying letter “K” and alluding to it being a > > distributed > > > > > system > > > > >(the circles and links that make the K). > > > > >- The proposed logos, however, make it appear as if KStreams is > a > > > > >third-party technology that was bolted onto Kafka. They > certainly, > > > for > > > > > me, > > > > >do not convey the message "Kafka Streams is an official part of > > > Apache > > > > >Kafka". > > > > >- I, too, don't like the way the main Kafka logo is obscured (a > > > > concern > > > > >already voiced in this thread). Also, the Kafka 'logo' embedded > in > > > the > > > > >proposed KStreams logos is not the original one. > > > > >- None of the proposed KStreams logos visually match the Kafka > > logo. > > > > >They have a totally different style, font, line art, and color > > > scheme. > > > > >- Execution-wise, the main Kafka logo looks great at all sizes. > > The > > > > >style of the otter logos, in comparison, becomes undecipherable > at > > > > > smaller > > > > >sizes. > > > > >
Re: [VOTE] KIP-657: Add Customized Kafka Streams Logo
(just my honest opinion) I strongly oppose the suggested logos. I completely agree with Michael's analysis. The design appears to me to be quite random (regardless of the association of streams with otters) and clashes terribly with the embedded Kafka logo making it appear quite unprofessional. It looks like KS is trying to jump on the cute animal band wagon against the natural resistance of its existing style (Kafka). It also looks far too similar to the Firefox logo. As for the process, I think for there to be meaningful community deliberation about a logo, there needs to be far more ideas put forward, rather than just the two takes on the one concept. As for any suggestion on what it should be, I'm afraid I won't be of much help. On Thu, Aug 20, 2020 at 7:59 AM Michael Noll wrote: > For what it's worth, here is an example sketch that I came up with. Point > is to show an alternative direction for the KStreams logo. > > https://ibb.co/bmZxDCg > > Thinking process: > >- It shows much more clearly (I hope) that KStreams is an official part >of Kafka. >- The Kafka logo is still front and center, and KStreams orbits around >it like electrons around the Kafka core/nucleus. That’s important > because >we want users to adopt all of Kafka, not just bits and pieces. >- It uses and builds upon the same ‘simple is beautiful’ style of the >original Kafka logo. That also has the nice side-effect that it alludes > to >Kafka’s and KStreams’ architectural simplicity. >- It picks up the good idea in the original logo candidates to convey >the movement and flow of stream processing. >- Execution-wise, and like the main Kafka logo, this logo candidate >works well in smaller size, too, because of its simple and clear lines. >(Logo types like the otter ones tend to become undecipherable at smaller >sizes.) >- It uses the same color scheme of the revamped AK website for brand >consistency. > > I am sure we can come up with even better logo candidates. But the > suggestion above is, in my book, certainly a better option than the otters. > > -Michael > > > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 11:09 PM Boyang Chen > wrote: > > > Hey Ben, > > > > that otter was supposed to be a river-otter to connect to "streams". And > of > > course, it's cute :) > > > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 12:41 PM Philip Schmitt < > > philip.schm...@outlook.com> > > wrote: > > > > > Hi, > > > > > > I’m with Robin and Michael here. > > > > > > What this decision needs is a good design brief. > > > This article seems decent: > > > > > > https://yourcreativejunkie.com/logo-design-brief-the-ultimate-guide-for-designers/ > > > > > > Robin is right about the usage requirements. > > > It goes a bit beyond resolution. How does the logo work when it’s on a > > > sticker on someone’s laptop? Might there be some cases, where you want > to > > > print it in black and white? > > > And how would it look if you put the Kafka, ksqlDB, and Streams > stickers > > > on a laptop? > > > > > > Of the two, I prefer the first option. > > > The brown on black is a bit subdued – it might not work well on a > t-shirt > > > or a laptop sticker. Maybe that could be improved by using a bolder > > color, > > > but once it gets smaller or lower-resolution, it may not work any > longer. > > > > > > > > > Regards, > > > Philip > > > > > > > > > P.S.: > > > Another article about what makes a good logo: > > > https://vanschneider.com/what-makes-a-good-logo > > > > > > P.P.S.: > > > > > > If I were to pick a logo for Streams, I’d choose something that fits > well > > > with Kafka and ksqlDB. > > > > > > ksqlDB has the rocket. > > > I can’t remember (or find) the reasoning behind the Kafka logo (aside > > from > > > representing a K). Was there something about planets orbiting the sun? > Or > > > was it the atom? > > > > > > So I might stick with a space/sience metaphor. > > > Could Streams be a comet? UFO? Star? Eclipse? ... > > > Maybe a satellite logo for Connect. > > > > > > Space inspiration: https://thenounproject.com/term/space/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Robin Moffatt > > > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 6:24 PM > > > To: users@kafka.apache.org > > > Cc: d...@kafka.apache.org &g
Re: [VOTE] KIP-657: Add Customized Kafka Streams Logo
For what it's worth, here is an example sketch that I came up with. Point is to show an alternative direction for the KStreams logo. https://ibb.co/bmZxDCg Thinking process: - It shows much more clearly (I hope) that KStreams is an official part of Kafka. - The Kafka logo is still front and center, and KStreams orbits around it like electrons around the Kafka core/nucleus. That’s important because we want users to adopt all of Kafka, not just bits and pieces. - It uses and builds upon the same ‘simple is beautiful’ style of the original Kafka logo. That also has the nice side-effect that it alludes to Kafka’s and KStreams’ architectural simplicity. - It picks up the good idea in the original logo candidates to convey the movement and flow of stream processing. - Execution-wise, and like the main Kafka logo, this logo candidate works well in smaller size, too, because of its simple and clear lines. (Logo types like the otter ones tend to become undecipherable at smaller sizes.) - It uses the same color scheme of the revamped AK website for brand consistency. I am sure we can come up with even better logo candidates. But the suggestion above is, in my book, certainly a better option than the otters. -Michael On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 11:09 PM Boyang Chen wrote: > Hey Ben, > > that otter was supposed to be a river-otter to connect to "streams". And of > course, it's cute :) > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 12:41 PM Philip Schmitt < > philip.schm...@outlook.com> > wrote: > > > Hi, > > > > I’m with Robin and Michael here. > > > > What this decision needs is a good design brief. > > This article seems decent: > > > https://yourcreativejunkie.com/logo-design-brief-the-ultimate-guide-for-designers/ > > > > Robin is right about the usage requirements. > > It goes a bit beyond resolution. How does the logo work when it’s on a > > sticker on someone’s laptop? Might there be some cases, where you want to > > print it in black and white? > > And how would it look if you put the Kafka, ksqlDB, and Streams stickers > > on a laptop? > > > > Of the two, I prefer the first option. > > The brown on black is a bit subdued – it might not work well on a t-shirt > > or a laptop sticker. Maybe that could be improved by using a bolder > color, > > but once it gets smaller or lower-resolution, it may not work any longer. > > > > > > Regards, > > Philip > > > > > > P.S.: > > Another article about what makes a good logo: > > https://vanschneider.com/what-makes-a-good-logo > > > > P.P.S.: > > > > If I were to pick a logo for Streams, I’d choose something that fits well > > with Kafka and ksqlDB. > > > > ksqlDB has the rocket. > > I can’t remember (or find) the reasoning behind the Kafka logo (aside > from > > representing a K). Was there something about planets orbiting the sun? Or > > was it the atom? > > > > So I might stick with a space/sience metaphor. > > Could Streams be a comet? UFO? Star? Eclipse? ... > > Maybe a satellite logo for Connect. > > > > Space inspiration: https://thenounproject.com/term/space/ > > > > > > > > > > > > From: Robin Moffatt > > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 6:24 PM > > To: users@kafka.apache.org > > Cc: d...@kafka.apache.org > > Subject: Re: [VOTE] KIP-657: Add Customized Kafka Streams Logo > > > > I echo what Michael says here. > > > > Another consideration is that logos are often shrunk (when used on > slides) > > and need to work at lower resolution (think: printing swag, stitching > > socks, etc) and so whatever logo we come up with needs to not be too > fiddly > > in the level of detail - something that I think both the current proposed > > options will fall foul of IMHO. > > > > > > On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 15:33, Michael Noll wrote: > > > > > Hi all! > > > > > > Great to see we are in the process of creating a cool logo for Kafka > > > Streams. First, I apologize for sharing feedback so late -- I just > > learned > > > about it today. :-) > > > > > > Here's my *personal, subjective* opinion on the currently two logo > > > candidates for Kafka Streams. > > > > > > TL;DR: Sorry, but I really don't like either of the proposed "otter" > > logos. > > > Let me try to explain why. > > > > > >- The choice to use an animal, regardless of which specific animal, > > >seems random and doesn't fit Kafka. (What's th
Re: [VOTE] KIP-657: Add Customized Kafka Streams Logo
Hey Ben, that otter was supposed to be a river-otter to connect to "streams". And of course, it's cute :) On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 12:41 PM Philip Schmitt wrote: > Hi, > > I’m with Robin and Michael here. > > What this decision needs is a good design brief. > This article seems decent: > https://yourcreativejunkie.com/logo-design-brief-the-ultimate-guide-for-designers/ > > Robin is right about the usage requirements. > It goes a bit beyond resolution. How does the logo work when it’s on a > sticker on someone’s laptop? Might there be some cases, where you want to > print it in black and white? > And how would it look if you put the Kafka, ksqlDB, and Streams stickers > on a laptop? > > Of the two, I prefer the first option. > The brown on black is a bit subdued – it might not work well on a t-shirt > or a laptop sticker. Maybe that could be improved by using a bolder color, > but once it gets smaller or lower-resolution, it may not work any longer. > > > Regards, > Philip > > > P.S.: > Another article about what makes a good logo: > https://vanschneider.com/what-makes-a-good-logo > > P.P.S.: > > If I were to pick a logo for Streams, I’d choose something that fits well > with Kafka and ksqlDB. > > ksqlDB has the rocket. > I can’t remember (or find) the reasoning behind the Kafka logo (aside from > representing a K). Was there something about planets orbiting the sun? Or > was it the atom? > > So I might stick with a space/sience metaphor. > Could Streams be a comet? UFO? Star? Eclipse? ... > Maybe a satellite logo for Connect. > > Space inspiration: https://thenounproject.com/term/space/ > > > > > ____________ > From: Robin Moffatt > Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 6:24 PM > To: users@kafka.apache.org > Cc: d...@kafka.apache.org > Subject: Re: [VOTE] KIP-657: Add Customized Kafka Streams Logo > > I echo what Michael says here. > > Another consideration is that logos are often shrunk (when used on slides) > and need to work at lower resolution (think: printing swag, stitching > socks, etc) and so whatever logo we come up with needs to not be too fiddly > in the level of detail - something that I think both the current proposed > options will fall foul of IMHO. > > > On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 15:33, Michael Noll wrote: > > > Hi all! > > > > Great to see we are in the process of creating a cool logo for Kafka > > Streams. First, I apologize for sharing feedback so late -- I just > learned > > about it today. :-) > > > > Here's my *personal, subjective* opinion on the currently two logo > > candidates for Kafka Streams. > > > > TL;DR: Sorry, but I really don't like either of the proposed "otter" > logos. > > Let me try to explain why. > > > >- The choice to use an animal, regardless of which specific animal, > >seems random and doesn't fit Kafka. (What's the purpose? To show that > >KStreams is 'cute'?) In comparison, the O’Reilly books always have an > >animal cover, that’s their style, and it is very recognizable. Kafka > >however has its own, different style. The Kafka logo has clear, > simple > >lines to achieve an abstract and ‘techy’ look, which also alludes > > nicely to > >its architectural simplicity. Its logo is also a smart play on the > >Kafka-identifying letter “K” and alluding to it being a distributed > > system > >(the circles and links that make the K). > >- The proposed logos, however, make it appear as if KStreams is a > >third-party technology that was bolted onto Kafka. They certainly, for > > me, > >do not convey the message "Kafka Streams is an official part of Apache > >Kafka". > >- I, too, don't like the way the main Kafka logo is obscured (a > concern > >already voiced in this thread). Also, the Kafka 'logo' embedded in the > >proposed KStreams logos is not the original one. > >- None of the proposed KStreams logos visually match the Kafka logo. > >They have a totally different style, font, line art, and color scheme. > >- Execution-wise, the main Kafka logo looks great at all sizes. The > >style of the otter logos, in comparison, becomes undecipherable at > > smaller > >sizes. > > > > What I would suggest is to first agree on what the KStreams logo is > > supposed to convey to the reader. Here's my personal take: > > > > Objective 1: First and foremost, the KStreams logo should make it clear > and > > obvious that KStreams is an official and integral part of Apache K
Re: [VOTE] KIP-657: Add Customized Kafka Streams Logo
Hi, I’m with Robin and Michael here. What this decision needs is a good design brief. This article seems decent: https://yourcreativejunkie.com/logo-design-brief-the-ultimate-guide-for-designers/ Robin is right about the usage requirements. It goes a bit beyond resolution. How does the logo work when it’s on a sticker on someone’s laptop? Might there be some cases, where you want to print it in black and white? And how would it look if you put the Kafka, ksqlDB, and Streams stickers on a laptop? Of the two, I prefer the first option. The brown on black is a bit subdued – it might not work well on a t-shirt or a laptop sticker. Maybe that could be improved by using a bolder color, but once it gets smaller or lower-resolution, it may not work any longer. Regards, Philip P.S.: Another article about what makes a good logo: https://vanschneider.com/what-makes-a-good-logo P.P.S.: If I were to pick a logo for Streams, I’d choose something that fits well with Kafka and ksqlDB. ksqlDB has the rocket. I can’t remember (or find) the reasoning behind the Kafka logo (aside from representing a K). Was there something about planets orbiting the sun? Or was it the atom? So I might stick with a space/sience metaphor. Could Streams be a comet? UFO? Star? Eclipse? ... Maybe a satellite logo for Connect. Space inspiration: https://thenounproject.com/term/space/ From: Robin Moffatt Sent: Wednesday, August 19, 2020 6:24 PM To: users@kafka.apache.org Cc: d...@kafka.apache.org Subject: Re: [VOTE] KIP-657: Add Customized Kafka Streams Logo I echo what Michael says here. Another consideration is that logos are often shrunk (when used on slides) and need to work at lower resolution (think: printing swag, stitching socks, etc) and so whatever logo we come up with needs to not be too fiddly in the level of detail - something that I think both the current proposed options will fall foul of IMHO. On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 15:33, Michael Noll wrote: > Hi all! > > Great to see we are in the process of creating a cool logo for Kafka > Streams. First, I apologize for sharing feedback so late -- I just learned > about it today. :-) > > Here's my *personal, subjective* opinion on the currently two logo > candidates for Kafka Streams. > > TL;DR: Sorry, but I really don't like either of the proposed "otter" logos. > Let me try to explain why. > >- The choice to use an animal, regardless of which specific animal, >seems random and doesn't fit Kafka. (What's the purpose? To show that >KStreams is 'cute'?) In comparison, the O’Reilly books always have an >animal cover, that’s their style, and it is very recognizable. Kafka >however has its own, different style. The Kafka logo has clear, simple >lines to achieve an abstract and ‘techy’ look, which also alludes > nicely to >its architectural simplicity. Its logo is also a smart play on the >Kafka-identifying letter “K” and alluding to it being a distributed > system >(the circles and links that make the K). >- The proposed logos, however, make it appear as if KStreams is a >third-party technology that was bolted onto Kafka. They certainly, for > me, >do not convey the message "Kafka Streams is an official part of Apache >Kafka". >- I, too, don't like the way the main Kafka logo is obscured (a concern >already voiced in this thread). Also, the Kafka 'logo' embedded in the >proposed KStreams logos is not the original one. >- None of the proposed KStreams logos visually match the Kafka logo. >They have a totally different style, font, line art, and color scheme. >- Execution-wise, the main Kafka logo looks great at all sizes. The >style of the otter logos, in comparison, becomes undecipherable at > smaller >sizes. > > What I would suggest is to first agree on what the KStreams logo is > supposed to convey to the reader. Here's my personal take: > > Objective 1: First and foremost, the KStreams logo should make it clear and > obvious that KStreams is an official and integral part of Apache Kafka. > This applies to both what is depicted and how it is depicted (like font, > line art, colors). > Objective 2: The logo should allude to the role of KStreams in the Kafka > project, which is the processing part. That is, "doing something useful to > the data in Kafka". > > The "circling arrow" aspect of the current otter logos does allude to > "continuous processing", which is going in the direction of (2), but the > logos do not meet (1) in my opinion. > > -Michael > > > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:34 PM Matthias J. Sax wrote: > > > Adding the user mailing list -- I think we should accepts votes on both > > list
Re: [VOTE] KIP-657: Add Customized Kafka Streams Logo
Purely out of curiosity, why an otter? Is there some reasoning behind it or is it just because it's cute? On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 17:57, Guozhang Wang wrote: > Hi Michael, > > Thanks for the feedback, but I'm not totally in agreement with your > proposed objectives of the logos. More specifically, though I agree Kafka's > logo is a smartly designed one to convey some key ideas of the project such > as "distributed" and "pipeline" in a techy manner, I'm not convinced it is > the only golden-standard principle for any logo designs. And I also feel > that it is not necessary to enforce Kafka Streams logo inheriting the same > techy and cold simple line style as with Kafka logos and avoid other > styles, e.g. animal images. To me the purpose of having a Kafka Streams > logo is to demonstrate the stream processing part of Kafka, and the symbol > of an otter to me illustrate "continuous actions in streams" surrounding > Kafka in a nice way (and yes, it's also cute :). In addition I honestly do > not share your concern that the current proposal would make people confuse > Kafka Streams is not an official and integral part of Apache Kafka, but of > course that's a subjective topic for us all. > > I do agree with Robin on the other feedback that it makes the Kafka logo > too small especially in design A, while it obscures the Kafka logo in > design B. I think this is addressable under the current design proposal > though. > > > Guozhang > > > On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:24 AM Robin Moffatt wrote: > > > I echo what Michael says here. > > > > Another consideration is that logos are often shrunk (when used on > slides) > > and need to work at lower resolution (think: printing swag, stitching > > socks, etc) and so whatever logo we come up with needs to not be too > fiddly > > in the level of detail - something that I think both the current proposed > > options will fall foul of IMHO. > > > > > > On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 15:33, Michael Noll wrote: > > > > > Hi all! > > > > > > Great to see we are in the process of creating a cool logo for Kafka > > > Streams. First, I apologize for sharing feedback so late -- I just > > learned > > > about it today. :-) > > > > > > Here's my *personal, subjective* opinion on the currently two logo > > > candidates for Kafka Streams. > > > > > > TL;DR: Sorry, but I really don't like either of the proposed "otter" > > logos. > > > Let me try to explain why. > > > > > >- The choice to use an animal, regardless of which specific animal, > > >seems random and doesn't fit Kafka. (What's the purpose? To show > that > > >KStreams is 'cute'?) In comparison, the O’Reilly books always have > an > > >animal cover, that’s their style, and it is very recognizable. > Kafka > > >however has its own, different style. The Kafka logo has clear, > > simple > > >lines to achieve an abstract and ‘techy’ look, which also alludes > > > nicely to > > >its architectural simplicity. Its logo is also a smart play on the > > >Kafka-identifying letter “K” and alluding to it being a distributed > > > system > > >(the circles and links that make the K). > > >- The proposed logos, however, make it appear as if KStreams is a > > >third-party technology that was bolted onto Kafka. They certainly, > for > > > me, > > >do not convey the message "Kafka Streams is an official part of > Apache > > >Kafka". > > >- I, too, don't like the way the main Kafka logo is obscured (a > > concern > > >already voiced in this thread). Also, the Kafka 'logo' embedded in > the > > >proposed KStreams logos is not the original one. > > >- None of the proposed KStreams logos visually match the Kafka logo. > > >They have a totally different style, font, line art, and color > scheme. > > >- Execution-wise, the main Kafka logo looks great at all sizes. The > > >style of the otter logos, in comparison, becomes undecipherable at > > > smaller > > >sizes. > > > > > > What I would suggest is to first agree on what the KStreams logo is > > > supposed to convey to the reader. Here's my personal take: > > > > > > Objective 1: First and foremost, the KStreams logo should make it clear > > and > > > obvious that KStreams is an official and integral part of Apache Kafka. > > > This applies to both what is depicted and how it is depicted (like > font, > > > line art, colors). > > > Objective 2: The logo should allude to the role of KStreams in the > Kafka > > > project, which is the processing part. That is, "doing something > useful > > to > > > the data in Kafka". > > > > > > The "circling arrow" aspect of the current otter logos does allude to > > > "continuous processing", which is going in the direction of (2), but > the > > > logos do not meet (1) in my opinion. > > > > > > -Michael > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:34 PM Matthias J. Sax > > wrote: > > > > > > > Adding the user mailing list -- I think we should accepts votes on > both > >
Re: [VOTE] KIP-657: Add Customized Kafka Streams Logo
Hi Michael, Thanks for the feedback, but I'm not totally in agreement with your proposed objectives of the logos. More specifically, though I agree Kafka's logo is a smartly designed one to convey some key ideas of the project such as "distributed" and "pipeline" in a techy manner, I'm not convinced it is the only golden-standard principle for any logo designs. And I also feel that it is not necessary to enforce Kafka Streams logo inheriting the same techy and cold simple line style as with Kafka logos and avoid other styles, e.g. animal images. To me the purpose of having a Kafka Streams logo is to demonstrate the stream processing part of Kafka, and the symbol of an otter to me illustrate "continuous actions in streams" surrounding Kafka in a nice way (and yes, it's also cute :). In addition I honestly do not share your concern that the current proposal would make people confuse Kafka Streams is not an official and integral part of Apache Kafka, but of course that's a subjective topic for us all. I do agree with Robin on the other feedback that it makes the Kafka logo too small especially in design A, while it obscures the Kafka logo in design B. I think this is addressable under the current design proposal though. Guozhang On Wed, Aug 19, 2020 at 9:24 AM Robin Moffatt wrote: > I echo what Michael says here. > > Another consideration is that logos are often shrunk (when used on slides) > and need to work at lower resolution (think: printing swag, stitching > socks, etc) and so whatever logo we come up with needs to not be too fiddly > in the level of detail - something that I think both the current proposed > options will fall foul of IMHO. > > > On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 15:33, Michael Noll wrote: > > > Hi all! > > > > Great to see we are in the process of creating a cool logo for Kafka > > Streams. First, I apologize for sharing feedback so late -- I just > learned > > about it today. :-) > > > > Here's my *personal, subjective* opinion on the currently two logo > > candidates for Kafka Streams. > > > > TL;DR: Sorry, but I really don't like either of the proposed "otter" > logos. > > Let me try to explain why. > > > >- The choice to use an animal, regardless of which specific animal, > >seems random and doesn't fit Kafka. (What's the purpose? To show that > >KStreams is 'cute'?) In comparison, the O’Reilly books always have an > >animal cover, that’s their style, and it is very recognizable. Kafka > >however has its own, different style. The Kafka logo has clear, > simple > >lines to achieve an abstract and ‘techy’ look, which also alludes > > nicely to > >its architectural simplicity. Its logo is also a smart play on the > >Kafka-identifying letter “K” and alluding to it being a distributed > > system > >(the circles and links that make the K). > >- The proposed logos, however, make it appear as if KStreams is a > >third-party technology that was bolted onto Kafka. They certainly, for > > me, > >do not convey the message "Kafka Streams is an official part of Apache > >Kafka". > >- I, too, don't like the way the main Kafka logo is obscured (a > concern > >already voiced in this thread). Also, the Kafka 'logo' embedded in the > >proposed KStreams logos is not the original one. > >- None of the proposed KStreams logos visually match the Kafka logo. > >They have a totally different style, font, line art, and color scheme. > >- Execution-wise, the main Kafka logo looks great at all sizes. The > >style of the otter logos, in comparison, becomes undecipherable at > > smaller > >sizes. > > > > What I would suggest is to first agree on what the KStreams logo is > > supposed to convey to the reader. Here's my personal take: > > > > Objective 1: First and foremost, the KStreams logo should make it clear > and > > obvious that KStreams is an official and integral part of Apache Kafka. > > This applies to both what is depicted and how it is depicted (like font, > > line art, colors). > > Objective 2: The logo should allude to the role of KStreams in the Kafka > > project, which is the processing part. That is, "doing something useful > to > > the data in Kafka". > > > > The "circling arrow" aspect of the current otter logos does allude to > > "continuous processing", which is going in the direction of (2), but the > > logos do not meet (1) in my opinion. > > > > -Michael > > > > > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:34 PM Matthias J. Sax > wrote: > > > > > Adding the user mailing list -- I think we should accepts votes on both > > > lists for this special case, as it's not a technical decision. > > > > > > @Boyang: as mentioned by Bruno, can we maybe add black/white options > for > > > both proposals, too? > > > > > > I also agree that Design B is not ideal with regard to the Kafka logo. > > > Would it be possible to change Design B accordingly? > > > > > > I am not a font expert, but the fonts in both design are
Re: [VOTE] KIP-657: Add Customized Kafka Streams Logo
I echo what Michael says here. Another consideration is that logos are often shrunk (when used on slides) and need to work at lower resolution (think: printing swag, stitching socks, etc) and so whatever logo we come up with needs to not be too fiddly in the level of detail - something that I think both the current proposed options will fall foul of IMHO. On Wed, 19 Aug 2020 at 15:33, Michael Noll wrote: > Hi all! > > Great to see we are in the process of creating a cool logo for Kafka > Streams. First, I apologize for sharing feedback so late -- I just learned > about it today. :-) > > Here's my *personal, subjective* opinion on the currently two logo > candidates for Kafka Streams. > > TL;DR: Sorry, but I really don't like either of the proposed "otter" logos. > Let me try to explain why. > >- The choice to use an animal, regardless of which specific animal, >seems random and doesn't fit Kafka. (What's the purpose? To show that >KStreams is 'cute'?) In comparison, the O’Reilly books always have an >animal cover, that’s their style, and it is very recognizable. Kafka >however has its own, different style. The Kafka logo has clear, simple >lines to achieve an abstract and ‘techy’ look, which also alludes > nicely to >its architectural simplicity. Its logo is also a smart play on the >Kafka-identifying letter “K” and alluding to it being a distributed > system >(the circles and links that make the K). >- The proposed logos, however, make it appear as if KStreams is a >third-party technology that was bolted onto Kafka. They certainly, for > me, >do not convey the message "Kafka Streams is an official part of Apache >Kafka". >- I, too, don't like the way the main Kafka logo is obscured (a concern >already voiced in this thread). Also, the Kafka 'logo' embedded in the >proposed KStreams logos is not the original one. >- None of the proposed KStreams logos visually match the Kafka logo. >They have a totally different style, font, line art, and color scheme. >- Execution-wise, the main Kafka logo looks great at all sizes. The >style of the otter logos, in comparison, becomes undecipherable at > smaller >sizes. > > What I would suggest is to first agree on what the KStreams logo is > supposed to convey to the reader. Here's my personal take: > > Objective 1: First and foremost, the KStreams logo should make it clear and > obvious that KStreams is an official and integral part of Apache Kafka. > This applies to both what is depicted and how it is depicted (like font, > line art, colors). > Objective 2: The logo should allude to the role of KStreams in the Kafka > project, which is the processing part. That is, "doing something useful to > the data in Kafka". > > The "circling arrow" aspect of the current otter logos does allude to > "continuous processing", which is going in the direction of (2), but the > logos do not meet (1) in my opinion. > > -Michael > > > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:34 PM Matthias J. Sax wrote: > > > Adding the user mailing list -- I think we should accepts votes on both > > lists for this special case, as it's not a technical decision. > > > > @Boyang: as mentioned by Bruno, can we maybe add black/white options for > > both proposals, too? > > > > I also agree that Design B is not ideal with regard to the Kafka logo. > > Would it be possible to change Design B accordingly? > > > > I am not a font expert, but the fonts in both design are different and I > > am wondering if there is an official Apache Kafka font that we should > > reuse to make sure that the logos align -- I would expect that both > > logos (including "Apache Kafka" and "Kafka Streams" names) will be used > > next to each other and it would look awkward if the font differs. > > > > > > -Matthias > > > > On 8/18/20 11:28 AM, Navinder Brar wrote: > > > Hi, > > > Thanks for the KIP, really like the idea. I am +1(non-binding) on A > > mainly because I felt like you have to tilt your head to realize the > > otter's head in B. > > > Regards,Navinder > > > > > > On Tuesday, 18 August, 2020, 11:44:20 pm IST, Guozhang Wang < > > wangg...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > > > I'm leaning towards design B primarily because it reminds me of the > > Firefox > > > logo which I like a lot. But I also share Adam's concern that it should > > > better not obscure the Kafka logo --- so if we can tweak a bit to fix > it > > my > > > vote goes to B, otherwise A :) > > > > > > > > > Guozhang > > > > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:48 AM Bruno Cadonna > > wrote: > > > > > >> Thanks for the KIP! > > >> > > >> I am +1 (non-binding) for A. > > >> > > >> I would also like to hear opinions whether the logo should be > colorized > > >> or just black and white. > > >> > > >> Best, > > >> Bruno > > >> > > >> > > >> On 15.08.20 16:05, Adam Bellemare wrote: > > >>> I prefer Design B, but given that I missed the discussion thread, I > > think > > >>> it would be
Re: [VOTE] KIP-657: Add Customized Kafka Streams Logo
Hi all! Great to see we are in the process of creating a cool logo for Kafka Streams. First, I apologize for sharing feedback so late -- I just learned about it today. :-) Here's my *personal, subjective* opinion on the currently two logo candidates for Kafka Streams. TL;DR: Sorry, but I really don't like either of the proposed "otter" logos. Let me try to explain why. - The choice to use an animal, regardless of which specific animal, seems random and doesn't fit Kafka. (What's the purpose? To show that KStreams is 'cute'?) In comparison, the O’Reilly books always have an animal cover, that’s their style, and it is very recognizable. Kafka however has its own, different style. The Kafka logo has clear, simple lines to achieve an abstract and ‘techy’ look, which also alludes nicely to its architectural simplicity. Its logo is also a smart play on the Kafka-identifying letter “K” and alluding to it being a distributed system (the circles and links that make the K). - The proposed logos, however, make it appear as if KStreams is a third-party technology that was bolted onto Kafka. They certainly, for me, do not convey the message "Kafka Streams is an official part of Apache Kafka". - I, too, don't like the way the main Kafka logo is obscured (a concern already voiced in this thread). Also, the Kafka 'logo' embedded in the proposed KStreams logos is not the original one. - None of the proposed KStreams logos visually match the Kafka logo. They have a totally different style, font, line art, and color scheme. - Execution-wise, the main Kafka logo looks great at all sizes. The style of the otter logos, in comparison, becomes undecipherable at smaller sizes. What I would suggest is to first agree on what the KStreams logo is supposed to convey to the reader. Here's my personal take: Objective 1: First and foremost, the KStreams logo should make it clear and obvious that KStreams is an official and integral part of Apache Kafka. This applies to both what is depicted and how it is depicted (like font, line art, colors). Objective 2: The logo should allude to the role of KStreams in the Kafka project, which is the processing part. That is, "doing something useful to the data in Kafka". The "circling arrow" aspect of the current otter logos does allude to "continuous processing", which is going in the direction of (2), but the logos do not meet (1) in my opinion. -Michael On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 10:34 PM Matthias J. Sax wrote: > Adding the user mailing list -- I think we should accepts votes on both > lists for this special case, as it's not a technical decision. > > @Boyang: as mentioned by Bruno, can we maybe add black/white options for > both proposals, too? > > I also agree that Design B is not ideal with regard to the Kafka logo. > Would it be possible to change Design B accordingly? > > I am not a font expert, but the fonts in both design are different and I > am wondering if there is an official Apache Kafka font that we should > reuse to make sure that the logos align -- I would expect that both > logos (including "Apache Kafka" and "Kafka Streams" names) will be used > next to each other and it would look awkward if the font differs. > > > -Matthias > > On 8/18/20 11:28 AM, Navinder Brar wrote: > > Hi, > > Thanks for the KIP, really like the idea. I am +1(non-binding) on A > mainly because I felt like you have to tilt your head to realize the > otter's head in B. > > Regards,Navinder > > > > On Tuesday, 18 August, 2020, 11:44:20 pm IST, Guozhang Wang < > wangg...@gmail.com> wrote: > > > > I'm leaning towards design B primarily because it reminds me of the > Firefox > > logo which I like a lot. But I also share Adam's concern that it should > > better not obscure the Kafka logo --- so if we can tweak a bit to fix it > my > > vote goes to B, otherwise A :) > > > > > > Guozhang > > > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:48 AM Bruno Cadonna > wrote: > > > >> Thanks for the KIP! > >> > >> I am +1 (non-binding) for A. > >> > >> I would also like to hear opinions whether the logo should be colorized > >> or just black and white. > >> > >> Best, > >> Bruno > >> > >> > >> On 15.08.20 16:05, Adam Bellemare wrote: > >>> I prefer Design B, but given that I missed the discussion thread, I > think > >>> it would be better without the Otter obscuring any part of the Kafka > >> logo. > >>> > >>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 6:31 PM Boyang Chen < > reluctanthero...@gmail.com> > >>> wrote: > >>> > Hello everyone, > > I would like to start a vote thread for KIP-657: > > > >> > https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-657%3A+Add+Customized+Kafka+Streams+Logo > > This KIP is aiming to add a new logo for the Kafka Streams library. > And > >> we > prepared two candidates with a cute otter. You could look up the KIP > to > find those logos. > > > Please post your vote against these
Re: [VOTE] KIP-657: Add Customized Kafka Streams Logo
Adding the user mailing list -- I think we should accepts votes on both lists for this special case, as it's not a technical decision. @Boyang: as mentioned by Bruno, can we maybe add black/white options for both proposals, too? I also agree that Design B is not ideal with regard to the Kafka logo. Would it be possible to change Design B accordingly? I am not a font expert, but the fonts in both design are different and I am wondering if there is an official Apache Kafka font that we should reuse to make sure that the logos align -- I would expect that both logos (including "Apache Kafka" and "Kafka Streams" names) will be used next to each other and it would look awkward if the font differs. -Matthias On 8/18/20 11:28 AM, Navinder Brar wrote: > Hi, > Thanks for the KIP, really like the idea. I am +1(non-binding) on A mainly > because I felt like you have to tilt your head to realize the otter's head in > B. > Regards,Navinder > > On Tuesday, 18 August, 2020, 11:44:20 pm IST, Guozhang Wang > wrote: > > I'm leaning towards design B primarily because it reminds me of the Firefox > logo which I like a lot. But I also share Adam's concern that it should > better not obscure the Kafka logo --- so if we can tweak a bit to fix it my > vote goes to B, otherwise A :) > > > Guozhang > > On Tue, Aug 18, 2020 at 9:48 AM Bruno Cadonna wrote: > >> Thanks for the KIP! >> >> I am +1 (non-binding) for A. >> >> I would also like to hear opinions whether the logo should be colorized >> or just black and white. >> >> Best, >> Bruno >> >> >> On 15.08.20 16:05, Adam Bellemare wrote: >>> I prefer Design B, but given that I missed the discussion thread, I think >>> it would be better without the Otter obscuring any part of the Kafka >> logo. >>> >>> On Thu, Aug 13, 2020 at 6:31 PM Boyang Chen >>> wrote: >>> Hello everyone, I would like to start a vote thread for KIP-657: >> https://cwiki.apache.org/confluence/display/KAFKA/KIP-657%3A+Add+Customized+Kafka+Streams+Logo This KIP is aiming to add a new logo for the Kafka Streams library. And >> we prepared two candidates with a cute otter. You could look up the KIP to find those logos. Please post your vote against these two customized logos. For example, I would vote for *design-A (binding)*. This vote thread shall be open for one week to collect enough votes to >> call for a winner. Still, feel free to post any question you may have >> regarding this KIP, thanks! >>> >> > > signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature
