Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
On Sat, 2013-04-20 at 12:40 +1000, Roger wrote: On 04/20/2013 07:37 AM, Jared K. Smith wrote: On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:41 AM, Roger are...@bigpond.com wrote: It made me start thinking about Fedora vs CentOS because of the problems I'm experiencing with Drupal 7 and php/Apache in Fedora 18 so here goes. It might be helpful to tell us what problems you're encountering with PHP, Apache, and Drupal 7 under Fedora 18. I'm running Drupal 7 just fine on Fedora 18, and am willing to help you track down any issues you're encountering. -- Jared Smith Hi Jared Thank you. Until a few weeks ago I had no problem with Fedora 18 nor Drupal 7 on my machines but the problem existed on the server since Drupal 7.21. I was running a site copy some weeks old on my machines with no problems. A few days ago I copied the server site to my machine and now have the same problems. Problem1 on the Server: In Drupal 7, as administrator go to StructureContent typesAdd Content type I get: php Fatal memory error. Tried to allocate nnn bytes. --- It is only when creating a new content type. Everything else works as expected. The site has no faults, nothing in the logs. Maximum allowable setting for php.ini on the remote server is 128M Server runs cloudLinux based on Centos 6.n, php 5.3 On my machine/s I have experimented with php memory from 64M to 512M. At 256M the memory problem goes away temporarily. Problem2: Apache. Since the update a couple of weeks ago I get: The connection was reset error and Error 324 (net::ERR_EMPTY_RESPONSE): The server closed the connection without sending any data. Restarting apache does not work, restarting the pc resets apache and php and the problem goes away for a few minutes. I suspect php or some interaction between apache and php but have no expertise in those areas. There you have it. Complex and puzzling. problem #1 seems like it would occur on any server that is bound by memory limits insufficient for the application and extensions you are using. If your cloud server doesn't have enough memory, buy more memory so that you can give it 256M. Likewise on F18. problem #2 sounds like the known Chrome 'pre-fetch' issue that has come up lately (you can Google it). Google is aware of the problem and is working on a solution if that is the case. Are you aware of which browser causes this problem? Is it Chrome? Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
James Hogarth wrote: The top program may shed some light, I don't think of anything off-hand which measures disk performance on a per-process basis. There is actually an iotop that does this ;-) True, although I was thinking more of something like the output of iostat, with data for each process, ie. a matrix of reads and writes to each filesystem or raw device, to show which process is doing what io on which device. IOtop is useful for tracking total per-PID io, and in some cases that is just what you need, particularly on a typical desktop with a single drive. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
On 04/21/2013 05:01 AM, Craig White wrote: There you have it. Complex and puzzling. problem #1 seems like it would occur on any server that is bound by memory limits insufficient for the application and extensions you are using. If your cloud server doesn't have enough memory, buy more memory so that you can give it 256M. Likewise on F18. problem #2 sounds like the known Chrome 'pre-fetch' issue that has come up lately (you can Google it). Google is aware of the problem and is working on a solution if that is the case. Are you aware of which browser causes this problem? Is it Chrome? Craig Thanks Craig Seems to be both Firefox and Chrome, and most puzzling is that it's happening on Fedora 16 also which has no updates for months. Roger -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
On Sun, 2013-04-21 at 09:51 +1000, Roger wrote: On 04/21/2013 05:01 AM, Craig White wrote: There you have it. Complex and puzzling. problem #1 seems like it would occur on any server that is bound by memory limits insufficient for the application and extensions you are using. If your cloud server doesn't have enough memory, buy more memory so that you can give it 256M. Likewise on F18. problem #2 sounds like the known Chrome 'pre-fetch' issue that has come up lately (you can Google it). Google is aware of the problem and is working on a solution if that is the case. Are you aware of which browser causes this problem? Is it Chrome? Craig Thanks Craig Seems to be both Firefox and Chrome, and most puzzling is that it's happening on Fedora 16 also which has no updates for months. Roger wild guess with only anecdotal evidence... You added some extensions to your Drupal setup that are badly behaved, incompatible or just simply memory pigs. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
hello roger. On 04/16/2013 10:10 PM, Roger wrote: snip so drop centos and run fedora and/or scientific linux. you may well find that scientific linux is very close to current fedora, with the exception of some new !whiz! !bang! software. /snip This is just about where I am at now. CentOs is getting too hard to contend with and I believe I'll have to devote a day to installing everything. i agree with you 100%. tho there are others who mistakenly believe that centos is the 'new god' of linux. bfs! check the thread; } Message-ID: 5167dad3.1060...@azdwiggins.com } Date: Fri, 12 Apr 2013 02:58:43 -0700 } From: Mike Dwiggins m...@azdwiggins.com } To: users@lists.fedoraproject.org } Subject: Fedora vs RHEL and you will see what i mean. i tried centos, did not like it, wiped it. i have been with scientific linux [sl] for close to 6 years now and i have yet to regret installing it. i try the new releases every few releases, but i can not follow their new releases every 6 months. i need a system that is stable and will remain operational. this is not to say that fedora is unstable. i used it from fl 6 up thru f12 and enjoyed it. i do like fedora, it has a lot of nice features. truth is, i have, rather had a 3 drive system with f12 in it, that i used for gnucash. i say 'had' because when i tried to install f18 to system, i had to use text mode. thanks to fedora now insisting on using lvm, and i forgot about, and which i have never really cared for, the installer marked the 3 drives as lvm. needless to say, the system got trashed. so i am not trying various recovery programs to see if i can get system back. so will say i should have backed them up, but backing up a 20g0 boot byte drive and 2 120g0 byte drives is a bit extreme. i did plan ahead and saved boot tracks to files for the 3 drives, but due to a distraction of a phone call and my chemotherapy corrupted memory, i failed to copy the boot tracks to a cd in event of need for recovery. do not take this in any way that i do not like fedora, because i do. i just need a system that has a long eol and sl has been increased to 10 years. i have help some folks with fedora installations and they enjoy it. something that i will do from now on is when i help with the installs, i sill set up /home on a separate drive and show user how to disable drive in bios so they will not lose their personal data. will i recommend fedora to oos users to try fedora? most definitely. i will also advise them of the pros and cons of a 'testing' system, as well as advising them of the pros and cons of using sl. then the decision is theirs. my background with computers started with punch cards and graduated to mini systems. later, i built an s100 system based on cromemco cdos, and enhanced version of cp/m written for use with z80, then cromix for z80, then cromix for z80/m6800. when slackware came out with their floppy release of linux, i tried it, i like it. when redhat released their version on cd, i installed it and liked it more that slackware, so i totally dropped slackware. when redhat released fedora, i moved to it and held at fl4. when fl6 was released, i tried it but had trouble because it would not install to the reiserfs i was using, but i was not aware of such and thought there was a problem with the release, so i stayed with fl4. when fl8 was released, i decided to give it a go, but it was still a no-go due to reiserfs. this time i decided to ask on support list about problem. there where many suggestions, but none worked until 1 poster ask how i had drives formatted. sure enough, when i told him, he replied back about the format problem. i changed format and it all was go. i did get tired of the updates and minor bugs, so i tried sl and centos because of their cloning rhel. with some of the problems of centos and none with sl, i moved to sl and used fedora for the advanced release of gnucash. i will exhaust all efforts to recover to recover my 3 drives, if not, i will rebuild them using sl6.4 and install f12 because i still have that on dvd. i am not concerned about connecting to internet, so security bugs, etc are not a problem. please excuse my regressing from Subject:, but i felt a little background would help explain why i follow fedora users support list. :-) -- in a world with out fences, who needs gates. tc. hago. g . -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
Am 19.04.2013 22:52, schrieb g: On 04/16/2013 10:10 PM, Roger wrote: snip so drop centos and run fedora and/or scientific linux. you may well find that scientific linux is very close to current fedora, with the exception of some new !whiz! !bang! software. /snip This is just about where I am at now. CentOs is getting too hard to contend with and I believe I'll have to devote a day to installing everything. i agree with you 100%. tho there are others who mistakenly believe that centos is the 'new god' of linux. bfs! stop your trolling nobody here believes in any god in case of IT hence i do not use CentOS regulary only for two appliances, OpenVAS and VMware-Recovery why? because they both need a non-moving target and that is the difference between believe and facts you have to choose the right platform for whatever project there is no OS or distribution to fit them all after your unproven lies about CentOS in another thread you should stop trolling now signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
On 04/19/2013 04:07 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: KAFBA -- in a world with out fences, who needs gates. tc. hago. g . -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
Am 19.04.2013 23:14, schrieb g: On 04/19/2013 04:07 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: KAFBA if you have nothing more to say after someone shows that you are only spread unqialified FUD do your self a favour and be quiet signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
On 04/19/2013 04:18 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: unless you are the moderator for this list, stop trying acting like one. reply with what ever you like, because i will not see any more of your post. so again, KAFBA. -- in a world with out fences, who needs gates. tc. hago. g . -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
Am 19.04.2013 23:29, schrieb g: On 04/19/2013 04:18 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: unless you are the moderator for this list, stop trying acting like one. i do not be a moderator to qualify FUD as what it is reply with what ever you like, because i will not see any more of your post. hopefully i do not see yours so again, KAFBA grow up child signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:41 AM, Roger are...@bigpond.com wrote: It made me start thinking about Fedora vs CentOS because of the problems I'm experiencing with Drupal 7 and php/Apache in Fedora 18 so here goes. It might be helpful to tell us what problems you're encountering with PHP, Apache, and Drupal 7 under Fedora 18. I'm running Drupal 7 just fine on Fedora 18, and am willing to help you track down any issues you're encountering. -- Jared Smith -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
On Fri, 2013-04-19 at 16:29 -0500, g wrote: On 04/19/2013 04:18 PM, Reindl Harald wrote: unless you are the moderator for this list, stop trying acting like one. reply with what ever you like, because i will not see any more of your post. so again, KAFBA. -- Sorry, but this reaction is uncalled for. Reindl may sometimes appear rude (I often feel so too), but in this thread he has been providing accurate information. You have been making unfounded statements. Different people can have different needs and therefore prefer different distros. I have been using Centos on my server now for years and it has been rock stable. You prefer Scientific linux, fine. I however have to agree with Reindl that you have been spreading only FUD where it comes to Centos. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
On 04/20/2013 07:37 AM, Jared K. Smith wrote: On Tue, Apr 16, 2013 at 3:41 AM, Roger are...@bigpond.com mailto:are...@bigpond.com wrote: It made me start thinking about Fedora vs CentOS because of the problems I'm experiencing with Drupal 7 and php/Apache in Fedora 18 so here goes. It might be helpful to tell us what problems you're encountering with PHP, Apache, and Drupal 7 under Fedora 18. I'm running Drupal 7 just fine on Fedora 18, and am willing to help you track down any issues you're encountering. -- Jared Smith Hi Jared Thank you. Until a few weeks ago I had no problem with Fedora 18 nor Drupal 7 on my machines but the problem existed on the server since Drupal 7.21. I was running a site copy some weeks old on my machines with no problems. A few days ago I copied the server site to my machine and now have the same problems. Problem1 on the Server: In Drupal 7, as administrator go to StructureContent typesAdd Content type I get: php Fatal memory error. Tried to allocate nnn bytes. --- It is only when creating a new content type. Everything else works as expected. The site has no faults, nothing in the logs. Maximum allowable setting for php.ini on the remote server is 128M Server runs cloudLinux based on Centos 6.n, php 5.3 On my machine/s I have experimented with php memory from 64M to 512M. At 256M the memory problem goes away temporarily. Problem2: Apache. Since the update a couple of weeks ago I get: The connection was reset error and Error 324 (net::ERR_EMPTY_RESPONSE): The server closed the connection without sending any data. Restarting apache does not work, restarting the pc resets apache and php and the problem goes away for a few minutes. I suspect php or some interaction between apache and php but have no expertise in those areas. There you have it. Complex and puzzling. Roger -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
Roger wrote: This is a call for understanding because of lack of knowledge. Apologies for the mix of issues in one message but they all relate to the same problem. Firstly, I've been reading the pro's and con's of RHEL and Fedora and am none the wiser. It seems to be around cost of service and lack or availability thereof. The beginning discussion was, I think on stability. It made me start thinking about Fedora vs CentOS because of the problems I'm experiencing with Drupal 7 and php/Apache in Fedora 18 so here goes. You need to make sure the Drupal and php versions are compatible. Actually the php and everything else, as my impression is that 5.4 is not a proper superset of earlier versions, a clear violation of Plauger's Law of Least Astonishment. I believe that the latest Apache updates of some time ago were flawed or do not correctly interact with php or php updates were flawed and have not been corrected. I have nothing to back up this assertion other than the problems now being experienced and a recommendation to remove php 5.4 and revert to an earlier version. Please don't quote me on this, It's what I've noticed, read and considered. What I said, but only the advice without the explanation. An upgrade to whatever is not working to match php would be better, but you do what you must. When I use Ruby on Rails I do not have issues because it uses WEBrick. Answered elsewhere. Discussion to date says that CentOS circa 6.n has the Fedora 14 kernel, is rock solid and gets updates every 6 months approx. Fedora 18 has kernel updates every few days or weeks at most. Frankly I enjoy the update cycle. It's interesting to see what gets improved. I have always run latest Fedora versions and have not experienced the current raft of problems. RHEL/CentOS/SL are not updated to new versions (with rare exceptions) but patched with back ported security fixes. THis gives stbility (they work the same) with security (the bugs stop being an issue). Fedora 18 sudo yum update, updates everything apps, modules, etc that needs security fixes or improvements. CentOS is a server system but can be used for a stable desktop system and has been recommended as an alternative. So what does CentOS 6.n desktop, yum update actually update or does it leave all the apps like cinnamon desktop, skype, gimp, apache, php, libreoffice, python, pulseaudio, gnome, Firefox or chrome as they are first installed, circa Fedora 14ish? One would think that this would leave significant vulnerability. If it runs the latest spate of updates then is it not little different from Fedora 18 but with an old kernel? It stays like Fedora14, old software now working as intended. Further reading implies that the better CentOS installation should be text based as a server only and that I should run all my work on the server not Fedora 18. I am now having significant problems with an already built Drupal 7 site on Fedora 18 after the latest spate of php updates and am perplexed as to what to do to get a quality stable functioning and stay functioning. I've got ubuntu 12.10 but it is now so slow that it's not easy to use. Further, I have 2 gig memory, intel mb, fast dual cpu, 250g hard drives and my desktop fedora 18 uses 55-63 percent memory. I thought this may be affecting php and apache, hence Drupal, but The Dell 1520 laptop has the same internals and memory and uses 25percent of the 2 gig memory, same drupal, same Ruby on Rails. I'm puzzled because after checking ps aux, top, and System Monitor on both they are very similar yet memory usage is markedly different. I do not know what I should be looking at to understand the issues and/or fixes. Depends on what you have run and are running, stuff will be in cache and buffers, that RAM is available rather than free. Read about caching if that isn't enough. Is there an app that I can use to track what happens in the browser, apache, php and Drupal when I start the Drupal site on my machine. Help is greatly appreciated The top program may shed some light, I don't think of anything off-hand which measures disk performance on a per-process basis. thanks in advance Roger Off Topic...Does anyone know of a Rails dev who would be able to help and teach me building a small application? Not my thing to do for fun or money. -- Bill Davidsen david...@tmr.com We have more to fear from the bungling of the incompetent than from the machinations of the wicked. - from Slashdot -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
The top program may shed some light, I don't think of anything off-hand which measures disk performance on a per-process basis. There is actually an iotop that does this ;-) -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
This is a call for understanding because of lack of knowledge. Apologies for the mix of issues in one message but they all relate to the same problem. Firstly, I've been reading the pro's and con's of RHEL and Fedora and am none the wiser. It seems to be around cost of service and lack or availability thereof. The beginning discussion was, I think on stability. It made me start thinking about Fedora vs CentOS because of the problems I'm experiencing with Drupal 7 and php/Apache in Fedora 18 so here goes. I believe that the latest Apache updates of some time ago were flawed or do not correctly interact with php or php updates were flawed and have not been corrected. I have nothing to back up this assertion other than the problems now being experienced and a recommendation to remove php 5.4 and revert to an earlier version. Please don't quote me on this, It's what I've noticed, read and considered. When I use Ruby on Rails I do not have issues because it uses WEBrick. Discussion to date says that CentOS circa 6.n has the Fedora 14 kernel, is rock solid and gets updates every 6 months approx. Fedora 18 has kernel updates every few days or weeks at most. Frankly I enjoy the update cycle. It's interesting to see what gets improved. I have always run latest Fedora versions and have not experienced the current raft of problems. Fedora 18 sudo yum update, updates everything apps, modules, etc that needs security fixes or improvements. CentOS is a server system but can be used for a stable desktop system and has been recommended as an alternative. So what does CentOS 6.n desktop, yum update actually update or does it leave all the apps like cinnamon desktop, skype, gimp, apache, php, libreoffice, python, pulseaudio, gnome, Firefox or chrome as they are first installed, circa Fedora 14ish? One would think that this would leave significant vulnerability. If it runs the latest spate of updates then is it not little different from Fedora 18 but with an old kernel? Further reading implies that the better CentOS installation should be text based as a server only and that I should run all my work on the server not Fedora 18. I am now having significant problems with an already built Drupal 7 site on Fedora 18 after the latest spate of php updates and am perplexed as to what to do to get a quality stable functioning and stay functioning. I've got ubuntu 12.10 but it is now so slow that it's not easy to use. Further, I have 2 gig memory, intel mb, fast dual cpu, 250g hard drives and my desktop fedora 18 uses 55-63 percent memory. I thought this may be affecting php and apache, hence Drupal, but The Dell 1520 laptop has the same internals and memory and uses 25percent of the 2 gig memory, same drupal, same Ruby on Rails. I'm puzzled because after checking ps aux, top, and System Monitor on both they are very similar yet memory usage is markedly different. I do not know what I should be looking at to understand the issues and/or fixes. Is there an app that I can use to track what happens in the browser, apache, php and Drupal when I start the Drupal site on my machine. Help is greatly appreciated thanks in advance Roger Off Topic...Does anyone know of a Rails dev who would be able to help and teach me building a small application? Thanks again Roger -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
Am 16.04.2013 09:41, schrieb Roger: I believe that the latest Apache updates of some time ago were flawed or do not correctly interact with php or php updates were flawed and have not been corrected. I have nothing to back up this assertion other than the problems now being experienced and a recommendation to remove php 5.4 and revert to an earlier version. Please don't quote me on this, It's what I've noticed, read and considered this has nothing to do with Apache interacts with PHP the question is if whatever software is ready for PHP 5.4 hence, in a few months PHP 5.5 will be released and 5.4 is a year old any software which does not work with PHP 5.4 is questionable or you need a different distribution like CentOS you can not use badly maintained web-scripts on a bleeding edge distro signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
On 04/16/2013 09:41 AM, Roger wrote: So what does CentOS 6.n desktop, yum update actually update or does it leave all the apps like cinnamon desktop, skype, gimp, apache, php, libreoffice, python, pulseaudio, gnome, Firefox or chrome as they are first installed, circa Fedora 14ish? Mostly the latter. In particular, RHEL/CentOS don't receive any API/ABI incompatible updates and usually only receives very moderate updates of programs/applications. This is very similar to what Fedora does during the life-time of a Fedora release. The major difference here is Fedora's life-time is ca. 1 year, while RHEL's is much longer. However, as RHEL/CentOS is much smaller/leaner than Fedora, you usually will find RHEL/CentOS use-cases are pretty limited and will find yourself adding packages, which RHEL/CentOS does not provide, from add-on repositories (e.g. EPEL). These usually apply different update/upgrade strategies of their own. One would think that this would leave significant vulnerability. Nope. RH is backporting security fixes over the whole life-time of a RHEL release. If it runs the latest spate of updates then is it not little different from Fedora 18 but with an old kernel? No. RHEL is very different from Fedora. RHEL continues to use the old status - Very oversimplied, RHEL/CentOS API/ABI is that of Fedora 14. That means, RHEL/CentOS based works usually are long term stable but usually also means these works can't apply the bells and whistles new works depend upon. Further reading implies that the better CentOS installation should be text based as a server only and that I should run all my work on the server not Fedora 18. I do not understand. Oversimplied, CentOS/RHEL technically are 3 years old, rock solid and small/limited. Fedora is on the bleeding edge, mediocre solid and big. Both situations have pros and cons of their own - Which to choose largely is a matter of your situation and of your case of deploying them. I for one use Fedora on desktops, but am using CentOS on servers. Ralf -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
On 04/16/2013 03:41 AM, Roger wrote: This is a call for understanding because of lack of knowledge. Apologies for the mix of issues in one message but they all relate to the same problem. Firstly, I've been reading the pro's and con's of RHEL and Fedora and am none the wiser. It seems to be around cost of service and lack or availability thereof. The beginning discussion was, I think on stability. It made me start thinking about Fedora vs CentOS because of the problems I'm experiencing with Drupal 7 and php/Apache in Fedora 18 so here goes. I believe that the latest Apache updates of some time ago were flawed or do not correctly interact with php or php updates were flawed and have not been corrected. I have nothing to back up this assertion other than the problems now being experienced and a recommendation to remove php 5.4 and revert to an earlier version. Please don't quote me on this, It's what I've noticed, read and considered. When I use Ruby on Rails I do not have issues because it uses WEBrick. Discussion to date says that CentOS circa 6.n has the Fedora 14 kernel, is rock solid and gets updates every 6 months approx. Fedora 18 has kernel updates every few days or weeks at most. Frankly I enjoy the update cycle. It's interesting to see what gets improved. I have always run latest Fedora versions and have not experienced the current raft of problems. Fedora 18 sudo yum update, updates everything apps, modules, etc that needs security fixes or improvements. CentOS is a server system but can be used for a stable desktop system and has been recommended as an alternative. So what does CentOS 6.n desktop, yum update actually update or does it leave all the apps like cinnamon desktop, skype, gimp, apache, php, libreoffice, python, pulseaudio, gnome, Firefox or chrome as they are first installed, circa Fedora 14ish? One would think that this would leave significant vulnerability. If it runs the latest spate of updates then is it not little different from Fedora 18 but with an old kernel? Further reading implies that the better CentOS installation should be text based as a server only and that I should run all my work on the server not Fedora 18. I am now having significant problems with an already built Drupal 7 site on Fedora 18 after the latest spate of php updates and am perplexed as to what to do to get a quality stable functioning and stay functioning. I've got ubuntu 12.10 but it is now so slow that it's not easy to use. Further, I have 2 gig memory, intel mb, fast dual cpu, 250g hard drives and my desktop fedora 18 uses 55-63 percent memory. I thought this may be affecting php and apache, hence Drupal, but The Dell 1520 laptop has the same internals and memory and uses 25percent of the 2 gig memory, same drupal, same Ruby on Rails. I'm puzzled because after checking ps aux, top, and System Monitor on both they are very similar yet memory usage is markedly different. I do not know what I should be looking at to understand the issues and/or fixes. Is there an app that I can use to track what happens in the browser, apache, php and Drupal when I start the Drupal site on my machine. Help is greatly appreciated thanks in advance Roger Off Topic...Does anyone know of a Rails dev who would be able to help and teach me building a small application? Thanks again Roger Hey Roger, Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. The two are not the same thing. Fedora is a development system with a short life cycle. It provides cutting edge applications. CentOS is an enterprise class system with a 10 year life cycle. It does not support the most recent versions of software for desktop use. Your choice should be driven by your needs. As for security updates, both Fedora and CentOS issue frequent security updates. No need to worry about vulnerability issues with either system. computer consultant Determine what functions you require. Determine what software you need to provide those functions. Determine what OS is required to support that software. Determine what hardware is required to support that OS. /computer consultant As for me, I got tired of having to keep up with the frequent version updates of Fedora. The software that I need runs just fine on CentOS which I use on my desktop. Your mileage my vary. -- _ °v° /(_)\ ^ ^ Mark LaPierre Registered Linux user No #267004 https://linuxcounter.net/ -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
snip It made me start thinking about Fedora vs CentOS because of the problems I'm experiencing with Drupal 7 and php/Apache in Fedora 18 so here goes. /snip Hey Roger, Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges. The two are not the same thing. Fedora is a development system with a short life cycle. It provides cutting edge applications. CentOS is an enterprise class system with a 10 year life cycle. It does not support the most recent versions of software for desktop use. Thank you to all for the very helpful info. I have CentOS-6.4-x86_64-minimal.iso downloaded. My laptop on which I'll do the first install does not have a functioning dvd drive so it has to be usb install. I installed Fedora 18 on it this way. All the info I'm reading says I have to reformat my usb to a fat system, why? Is there any reason CentOS doesn't use ext formatting? Also for some reason Brasero now does not burn to usb, I don't remember how I put the Fedora Iso on the USB. Also it seems extremely complicated to create a CentOS usb installation. http://ihazem.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/installing-centos-from-usb/ I read that the CentOS people aren't interested in end user but it seems that end user or non server computers may not have dvd drives for much longer, making CentOS out of reach of end users. Seems like it's out of reach for now. Thanks Roger -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
On 04/16/2013 08:44 PM, Roger wrote: Thank you to all for the very helpful info. I have CentOS-6.4-x86_64-minimal.iso downloaded. why are you wanting to use centos? My laptop on which I'll do the first install does not have a functioning dvd drive so it has to be usb install. which is why many distros are now including a live usb creator. i would not doubt if we start seeing *-usb.iso, or some other naming to indicate it is for usb installation. maybe even *.usb. ;-) All the info I'm reading says I have to reformat my usb to a fat system, why? Is there any reason CentOS doesn't use ext formatting? maintain compatibility with old oos and mac or that fat is a better format for small files and files that are not in a 1024, or 2048 size. when i was researching info on creating a live usb, several sites made comments about using fat, but i do not recall now. you could run a search of 'live usb' and 'fat' at; https://ixquick.com/eng/advanced-search.html to see what it shows. why ixquick? because they protect your privacy. google does not. see; https://ixquick.com/eng/protect-privacy.html a very good read and should convince you to change also. Also for some reason Brasero now does not burn to usb, neither does k3b. give them time and it will/should be included. tho i prefer below methods. 1st and 3rd, for sure. much easier and quicker. I don't remember how I put the Fedora Iso on the USB. possibilities; liveusb-creator - https://fedorahosted.org/liveusb-creator/ unetbootlin - http://unetbootin.sourceforge.net/ dd if=/path/to/iso of=/dev/usb bs=1024 Also it seems extremely complicated to create a CentOS usb installation. do not use centos, stay with fedora or try scientific linux. both have liveusb-creator in their packaging. i created both a fedora live usb and a scientific linux while running scientific linux. both work great. I read that the centos people aren't interested in end user but it seems that end user or non server computers may not have dvd drives for much longer, making centos out of reach of end users. Seems like it's out of reach for now. so drop centos and run fedora and/or scientific linux. you may well find that scientific linux is very close to current fedora, with the exception of some new !whiz! !bang! software. hth. -- in a world with out fences, who needs gates. tc. hago. g . -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
On Wed, 2013-04-17 at 11:44 +1000, Roger wrote: Thank you to all for the very helpful info. I have CentOS-6.4-x86_64-minimal.iso downloaded. My laptop on which I'll do the first install does not have a functioning dvd drive so it has to be usb install. I installed Fedora 18 on it this way. All the info I'm reading says I have to reformat my usb to a fat system, why? Is there any reason CentOS doesn't use ext formatting? Also for some reason Brasero now does not burn to usb, I don't remember how I put the Fedora Iso on the USB. Also it seems extremely complicated to create a CentOS usb installation. http://ihazem.wordpress.com/2012/02/12/installing-centos-from-usb/ I read that the CentOS people aren't interested in end user but it seems that end user or non server computers may not have dvd drives for much longer, making CentOS out of reach of end users. Seems like it's out of reach for now. Thanks Roger I'm quite sure that you'll find instructions on installing CentOS from a USB disk on CentOS Wiki - always best to start with the source. CentOS mail list is quite useful and helpful but not tolerant of chatter. Yes, the installation process from a USB flash disk will indeed format the disk in vfat but that should be of little interest/consequence since you can wipe it after you are done and format it with any filesystem that you want. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 17:41 +1000, Roger wrote: I believe that the latest Apache updates of some time ago were flawed or do not correctly interact with php or php updates were flawed and have not been corrected. I have nothing to back up this assertion other than the problems now being experienced and a recommendation to remove php 5.4 and revert to an earlier version. Please don't quote me on this, It's what I've noticed, read and considered. you should figure out if the version of Drupal you are using is compatible with PHP 5.4 (used by Fedora 18) When I use Ruby on Rails I do not have issues because it uses WEBrick. webrick is only for development mode - not suitable for actually running an application as it's single threaded. CentOS is a server system but can be used for a stable desktop system and has been recommended as an alternative. So what does CentOS 6.n desktop, yum update actually update or does it leave all the apps like cinnamon desktop, skype, gimp, apache, php, libreoffice, python, pulseaudio, gnome, Firefox or chrome as they are first installed, circa Fedora 14ish? One would think that this would leave significant vulnerability. If it runs the latest spate of updates then is it not little different from Fedora 18 but with an old kernel? CentOS does not differentiate server/workstation but only installs CentOS and the packages you choose to install essentially determine what the role will be. Throughout the life of say CentOS 6.x, it won't change much at all - only bug fixes, security updates. Versions of server daemons rarely change. Sometimes the versions of desktop applications change but that is still infrequent and typically done out of necessity (ie, when Firefox obsoleted earlier versions). Further reading implies that the better CentOS installation should be text based as a server only and that I should run all my work on the server not Fedora 18. not actually true Further, I have 2 gig memory, intel mb, fast dual cpu, 250g hard drives and my desktop fedora 18 uses 55-63 percent memory. I thought this may be affecting php and apache, hence Drupal, but The Dell 1520 laptop has the same internals and memory and uses 25percent of the 2 gig memory, same drupal, same Ruby on Rails. I'm puzzled because after checking ps aux, top, and System Monitor on both they are very similar yet memory usage is markedly different. I do not know what I should be looking at to understand the issues and/or fixes. 2 GB RAM is not all that much for a desktop system. Is there an app that I can use to track what happens in the browser, apache, php and Drupal when I start the Drupal site on my machine. top? ps? Off Topic...Does anyone know of a Rails dev who would be able to help and teach me building a small application? highly unlikely to ever happen. Rails developers are in demand and always busy if they are any good. Railstutorial.org is where you should focus. Also, there are some very good books but dead tree versions are always out of date. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 21:48 -0500, g wrote: so drop centos and run fedora and/or scientific linux. you may well find that scientific linux is very close to current fedora, with the exception of some new !whiz! !bang! software. highly uninformed opinion. If you don't know the difference between Scientific Linux and CentOS and RHEL, why on earth would you offer an opinion? Hint - Scientific Linux and CentOS are rebuilds from RHEL source rpms. They all have nothing to do with Fedora packaging except that they can use EPEL repository to supplement their offerings. Craig -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
snip so drop centos and run fedora and/or scientific linux. you may well find that scientific linux is very close to current fedora, with the exception of some new !whiz! !bang! software. /snip This is just about where I am at now. CentOs is getting too hard to contend with and I believe I'll have to devote a day to installing everything. -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: Fedora vs CentOS -- php/apache and Drupal 7
On 04/16/2013 10:01 PM, Craig White wrote: On Tue, 2013-04-16 at 21:48 -0500, g wrote: so drop centos and run fedora and/or scientific linux. you may well find that scientific linux is very close to current fedora, with the exception of some new !whiz! !bang! software. highly uninformed opinion. highly unaware reply. being in need of a stable release/clone of rhel, i first tried centos. it was a lot of trouble. when i tried scientific linux, i had nothing but satisfactory results. so i stayed with scientific linux. If you don't know the difference between Scientific Linux and CentOS and RHEL, why on earth would you offer an opinion? again, highly unaware reply. having tried both, i do have knowledge of both. Hint - Scientific Linux and CentOS are rebuilds from RHEL source rpms. They all have nothing to do with Fedora packaging except that they can use EPEL repository to supplement their offerings. thank you, but i do not need your hint for what i read about before i ever considered trying the clones. nor do i believe you will find that i made an referencing to packaging, other than the including of liveusb-creator. -- in a world with out fences, who needs gates. tc. hago. g . -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
