Re: [LOCATE ISSUE SOLVED:] Re: dumb question
On 1/5/2012 4:44 AM, Patrick O'Callaghan wrote: You might be surprised. For some of us, the first question is "how can I do this with the Shell?" Only if the answer is "you can't", or "it would be too slow", do we resort to programming. The whole Unix toolkit philosophy is based on this, or at least used to be. That's why it was so successful in the beginning. poc I've heard this many times and believe it to be a good adage. I might have taken a similar approach in hindsight if my first encounter had been a world where there was a mature Shell to work with. Thanks, Paul -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: [LOCATE ISSUE SOLVED:] Re: dumb question
On Wed, 2012-01-04 at 16:59 -0800, Paul Allen Newell wrote: > Somehow I just never hit the need for using the shell above and beyond > a > quick whack to get me through something that couldn't be done with a > programming language. Its one of those things that I would regret not > having picked up ... except the amount of need I have for it is far > less > than the need for the things I did pick up. You might be surprised. For some of us, the first question is "how can I do this with the Shell?" Only if the answer is "you can't", or "it would be too slow", do we resort to programming. The whole Unix toolkit philosophy is based on this, or at least used to be. That's why it was so successful in the beginning. poc -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: [LOCATE ISSUE SOLVED:] Re: dumb question
On Wed, 2012-01-04 at 19:06 -0600, Dave Ihnat wrote: > An interesting little ditty, if you don't know it. Steve Bourne > really > loved ALGOL. So much so that he wrote the original shell *in* > ALGOL...kind > of. It was ostensibly 'C'...but he created an entire set of #defines > to > allow him to actually write the shell in ALGOL. For what it's worth, I took a course in Algol 68 from Steve Bourne at Cambridge in 1972, so there you go :-) Now back to our regularly-scheduled flamewars^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h^h programming. poc -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: [LOCATE ISSUE SOLVED:] Re: dumb question
On 1/4/2012 5:06 PM, Dave Ihnat wrote: On Wed, Jan 04, 2012 at 04:59:29PM -0800, Paul Allen Newell wrote: I've always tried to make sure everything is lowest common denominator between Microsoft and Linux unless there is a good reason. I learned the hard way the first time I had to port from Linux to Microsoft. I really dislike anything on my computers having kittens. Heh. Unfortunately, if we're using a Linux box as server host for a bunch'o Win boxen, we'll get the Windows directory paths inside the shares. *Shrug*. It's the nature of the beast. That part of the beast is not one I willing invite into my home network as I get to create it the way I want and I don't want that headache. I think part of it was a dislike for style / syntax of scripting / shells. ... ... ...I was brought up with programming languages and assembler/machine, they defined my taste in tailors ... Well, remember the Bourne shell--the origin for sh, bash, etc.--was written to be ALGOL 68. So it's a programming language... Yes, good point. I never used ALGOL-"any year" (or if I did, I was too young to know it). I went through machine language, JOSS, and SAIL (there may have been others that I can't remember). I know that one can view shell scripting as shell programming and I won't dispute that view. An interesting little ditty, if you don't know it. Steve Bourne really loved ALGOL. So much so that he wrote the original shell *in* ALGOL...kind of. It was ostensibly 'C'...but he created an entire set of #defines to allow him to actually write the shell in ALGOL. When I heard this, I said, "Naw...". When I actually got to work at Bell Labs around 1980, and got access to the Unix source code, one of the first things I did was check the source. Yes, he did. This also explains why the original shell remained static for so long--it was a hellish mess; nobody wanted to be responsible for trying to change it. Thanks for the story! Paul -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: [LOCATE ISSUE SOLVED:] Re: dumb question
On Wed, Jan 04, 2012 at 04:59:29PM -0800, Paul Allen Newell wrote: > I've always tried to make sure everything is lowest common > denominator between Microsoft and Linux unless there is a good > reason. I learned the hard way the first time I had to port from > Linux to Microsoft. I really dislike anything on my computers having > kittens. Heh. Unfortunately, if we're using a Linux box as server host for a bunch'o Win boxen, we'll get the Windows directory paths inside the shares. *Shrug*. It's the nature of the beast. > I think part of it was a dislike for style / syntax of scripting / > shells. ... > ... > ...I was brought up with programming languages > and assembler/machine, they defined my taste in tailors ... Well, remember the Bourne shell--the origin for sh, bash, etc.--was written to be ALGOL 68. So it's a programming language... An interesting little ditty, if you don't know it. Steve Bourne really loved ALGOL. So much so that he wrote the original shell *in* ALGOL...kind of. It was ostensibly 'C'...but he created an entire set of #defines to allow him to actually write the shell in ALGOL. When I heard this, I said, "Naw...". When I actually got to work at Bell Labs around 1980, and got access to the Unix source code, one of the first things I did was check the source. Yes, he did. This also explains why the original shell remained static for so long--it was a hellish mess; nobody wanted to be responsible for trying to change it. Cheers, -- Dave Ihnat dih...@dminet.com -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: [LOCATE ISSUE SOLVED:] Re: dumb question
[inline] On 1/4/2012 4:08 PM, Dave Ihnat wrote: Just be aware if you've any directory paths with funny characters in them--especially spaces (think Microsoft files hosted on your filesystem)--xargs has kittens. There are ways around that, but. I've always tried to make sure everything is lowest common denominator between Microsoft and Linux unless there is a good reason. I learned the hard way the first time I had to port from Linux to Microsoft. I really dislike anything on my computers having kittens. The shell is remarkably powerful--I first started shell programming while I was slinging 'C' code at BTL on the 5ESS switch back in 1980, and I got deeply into some of the fun stuff--pipes, multiple concurrent open files and redirection, etc. (It was my then-perceived need for 'cut' and 'paste' on a Unix variant--Venix--that didn't have those useful little ditties that led me to write them back then.) Somehow I just never hit the need for using the shell above and beyond a quick whack to get me through something that couldn't be done with a programming language. Its one of those things that I would regret not having picked up ... except the amount of need I have for it is far less than the need for the things I did pick up. I think part of it was a dislike for style / syntax of scripting / shells. It felt like a poorly tailored suit that you hoped your friends didn't see you wearing. My opinion finally changed once I saw how Python turned out ... but that only covers the scripting aspect, not the shell. I was brought up with programming languages and assembler/machine, they defined my taste in tailors ... Of course, it means the occasional "dumb question" (and maybe, in some people's eyes, more than occasional). Thanks, Paul -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
Re: [LOCATE ISSUE SOLVED:] Re: dumb question
On Wed, Jan 04, 2012 at 03:51:01PM -0800, Paul Allen Newell wrote: > Your suggestion regarding xargs helped. This is the second time its > been suggested to me and I am going to go off and read about it as I > get a sense it will make my life alot easier. Just be aware if you've any directory paths with funny characters in them--especially spaces (think Microsoft files hosted on your filesystem)--xargs has kittens. There are ways around that, but. The shell is remarkably powerful--I first started shell programming while I was slinging 'C' code at BTL on the 5ESS switch back in 1980, and I got deeply into some of the fun stuff--pipes, multiple concurrent open files and redirection, etc. (It was my then-perceived need for 'cut' and 'paste' on a Unix variant--Venix--that didn't have those useful little ditties that led me to write them back then.) Cheers, -- Dave Ihnat dih...@dminet.com -- users mailing list users@lists.fedoraproject.org To unsubscribe or change subscription options: https://admin.fedoraproject.org/mailman/listinfo/users Guidelines: http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Mailing_list_guidelines Have a question? Ask away: http://ask.fedoraproject.org
