Re: user crontab

[Ed Greshko]

On 2020-05-11 21:45, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>
>
> On 5/11/20 9:28 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:
>> On 2020-05-11 20:39, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
>>> And now you are paying the memory, cpu, etc. cost of having postfix running
>> Oh, well, I suppose I've never seen an idle postfix take up any noticeable 
>> CPU time or memory
>> on any of my systems.
>
> How can it not take up memory?  It may be swapped out, but there should be 
> something there watching port 25, at least.

It is rather tiny.  Taking up 0.7% of memory in a VM with 1.2G assigned to it.

>
> It does seem to be event triggered, like a connection to port 25 or whatever 
> other ports it is configured for.  So it would be idling for the post part.  
> But then when you use it for a simple MDA action, is it written modularly so 
> you only load what is needed?
>
> Yeah, not too bad.  But to configure postfix for only this function and to 
> protect against any misuse, is yet something else to do.

Misuse?  Listening only on 127.0.0.1 by default so only users on the machine it 
is running can abuse it.  :-)

>
> Plus writing my own script has been fun and educational!  ;)

Sounds like lots of fun.

>
> The problem is with cron. I am going to have to drop a note to Vixie; it has 
> been a couple years since the two of us have had fun sparing...  really he is 
> a great guy, and I learned a lot from him working on IETF mail and dns 
> workgroups.
>

Well, since cronie is a fork of vixie-cron he may not have much insight.

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Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/11/20 9:28 AM, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 2020-05-11 20:39, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

And now you are paying the memory, cpu, etc. cost of having postfix running

Oh, well, I suppose I've never seen an idle postfix take up any noticeable CPU 
time or memory
on any of my systems.


How can it not take up memory?  It may be swapped out, but there should 
be something there watching port 25, at least.


It does seem to be event triggered, like a connection to port 25 or 
whatever other ports it is configured for.  So it would be idling for 
the post part.  But then when you use it for a simple MDA action, is it 
written modularly so you only load what is needed?


Yeah, not too bad.  But to configure postfix for only this function and 
to protect against any misuse, is yet something else to do.


Plus writing my own script has been fun and educational!  ;)

The problem is with cron. I am going to have to drop a note to Vixie; it 
has been a couple years since the two of us have had fun sparing...  
really he is a great guy, and I learned a lot from him working on IETF 
mail and dns workgroups.




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Re: user crontab

[Ed Greshko]

On 2020-05-11 20:39, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> And now you are paying the memory, cpu, etc. cost of having postfix running

Oh, well, I suppose I've never seen an idle postfix take up any noticeable CPU 
time or memory
on any of my systems.


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Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/10/20 11:39 PM, Ed Greshko wrote:

On 2020-05-07 06:00, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

I know I can edit the user crontab with:

crontab -e

and display it with

crontab -l

But where is it?  I don't see anything like ~/.crontab

Secondly, and more importantly, is getting a email from the user crontab.  I 
have in my crontab:

SHELL=/bin/bash
PATH=/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin
MAILTO=rgm


And nothing gets mailed to /var/spool/mail/rgm

ls /var/spool/mail/ -ls
total 0
0 -rw-rw. 1 rgm mail 0 May  5 17:21 rgm
0 -rw-rw. 1 rpc mail 0 May  5 17:07 rpc


Do I need something like postfix with a minimal installation to get the output 
from my crontab?


Sorry to be "late to the party".

I did the following

dnf install postfix
systemctl --now enable postfix


And now you are paying the memory, cpu, etc. cost of having postfix 
running for something that a postprocessing MDA should/can do.  Plus you 
are showing that cron is not working "out of the box" as well as it 
should without an MTA or a proper MDA.




My crontab

SHELL=/bin/sh
MAILTO=egreshko
37 * * * * /home/egreshko/bin/tippy

Contents of /home/egreshko/bin/tippy

[egreshko@f31k ~]$ cat bin/tippy
#!/bin/sh

echo HI

ls /tmp

And then you can see the time has past with...

[egreshko@f31k ~]$ date
Mon 11 May 2020 11:38:01 AM CST

And this showed up in local mailbox

[egreshko@f31k ~]$ cat /var/spool/mail/egreshko
 From egres...@f31k.greshko.com  Mon May 11 11:37:01 2020
Return-Path: 
X-Original-To: egreshko
Delivered-To: egres...@f31k.greshko.com
Received: by f31k.greshko.com (Postfix, from userid 1026)
     id 61824A7C95; Mon, 11 May 2020 11:37:01 +0800 (CST)
From: "(Cron Daemon)" 
To: egres...@f31k.greshko.com
Subject: Cron  /home/egreshko/bin/tippy
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
Precedence: bulk
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
Message-Id: <20200511033701.61824a7...@f31k.greshko.com>
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 11:37:01 +0800 (CST)

HI
sddm-:0-WDrvkF
sddm-auth43c5c6d5-ceb7-4e5b-b09f-abe5c864fba1
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-chronyd.service-5olExh
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-colord.service-759pOi
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-dbus-broker.service-2c7ROg
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-ModemManager.service-e8g5zi
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-postfix.service-tkOnQf
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-rtkit-daemon.service-vXKr2h
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-systemd-logind.service-jmYKHf
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-upower.service-24SETg


Isn't that what you wanted?


Without the fun and games of an MTA.  I could easily do this.  I have 
done this for past installs.  This time I am trying to figure this out 
without the MTA bandaid; an MDA like procmail SHOULD do this right.  In 
fact someone did part of the job by adding the "-f cron" option to procmail.




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Re: user crontab

[Ed Greshko]

On 2020-05-07 06:00, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> I know I can edit the user crontab with:
>
> crontab -e
>
> and display it with
>
> crontab -l
>
> But where is it?  I don't see anything like ~/.crontab
>
> Secondly, and more importantly, is getting a email from the user crontab.  I 
> have in my crontab:
>
> SHELL=/bin/bash
> PATH=/sbin:/bin:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin
> MAILTO=rgm
>
>
> And nothing gets mailed to /var/spool/mail/rgm
>
> ls /var/spool/mail/ -ls
> total 0
> 0 -rw-rw. 1 rgm mail 0 May  5 17:21 rgm
> 0 -rw-rw. 1 rpc mail 0 May  5 17:07 rpc
>
>
> Do I need something like postfix with a minimal installation to get the 
> output from my crontab?
>

Sorry to be "late to the party".

I did the following

dnf install postfix
systemctl --now enable postfix

My crontab

SHELL=/bin/sh
MAILTO=egreshko
37 * * * * /home/egreshko/bin/tippy

Contents of /home/egreshko/bin/tippy

[egreshko@f31k ~]$ cat bin/tippy
#!/bin/sh

echo HI

ls /tmp

And then you can see the time has past with...

[egreshko@f31k ~]$ date
Mon 11 May 2020 11:38:01 AM CST

And this showed up in local mailbox

[egreshko@f31k ~]$ cat /var/spool/mail/egreshko
From egres...@f31k.greshko.com  Mon May 11 11:37:01 2020
Return-Path: 
X-Original-To: egreshko
Delivered-To: egres...@f31k.greshko.com
Received: by f31k.greshko.com (Postfix, from userid 1026)
    id 61824A7C95; Mon, 11 May 2020 11:37:01 +0800 (CST)
From: "(Cron Daemon)" 
To: egres...@f31k.greshko.com
Subject: Cron  /home/egreshko/bin/tippy
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
Precedence: bulk
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
Message-Id: <20200511033701.61824a7...@f31k.greshko.com>
Date: Mon, 11 May 2020 11:37:01 +0800 (CST)

HI
sddm-:0-WDrvkF
sddm-auth43c5c6d5-ceb7-4e5b-b09f-abe5c864fba1
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-chronyd.service-5olExh
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-colord.service-759pOi
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-dbus-broker.service-2c7ROg
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-ModemManager.service-e8g5zi
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-postfix.service-tkOnQf
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-rtkit-daemon.service-vXKr2h
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-systemd-logind.service-jmYKHf
systemd-private-a3fcb3cdd0024b53828446634851314a-upower.service-24SETg


Isn't that what you wanted?


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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/10/20 6:51 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 10May2020 13:36, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:

It is entirely true. The collapsing happens when you _use_ the values:

   # all safe and reliable
   $ a=$( date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')
   $ b=$( date +'%a  %b  %d  %T  Y')
   $ c=$b

   # unquoted use
   $ echo $a
   Sat May 09 14:37:07 2020
   $ echo $b
   Sat May 09 14:37:15 2020
   $ echo $c
   Sat May 09 14:37:15 2020

   # quoted use
   $ echo "$a"
   Sat May 09 14:37:07 2020
   $ echo "$b"
   Sat  May  09  14:37:15  2020
   $ echo "$c"
   Sat  May  09  14:37:15  2020

The variable $b contains the multiple spaces you put in your date 
format. But they only survive is you quote the variable when you use 
it. [...]


I am having problems taking out the '


You've misread things.

Keep the ' quote, it is needed so that the '+.' argument remains 
_one_ argument to the date command.


We're talking about dropping the " from the "$(...)" part. So change:

 currentDate="$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"

into:

 currentDate=$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"

which does not need the double quotes because the shell parses 
currentDate=$(..) as the assignment because of the punctuation.



Thanks!  This was explained off list.  Got it and fixed!

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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Cameron Simpson]

On 10May2020 13:36, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:

It is entirely true. The collapsing happens when you _use_ the values:

   # all safe and reliable
   $ a=$( date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')
   $ b=$( date +'%a  %b  %d  %T  Y')
   $ c=$b

   # unquoted use
   $ echo $a
   Sat May 09 14:37:07 2020
   $ echo $b
   Sat May 09 14:37:15 2020
   $ echo $c
   Sat May 09 14:37:15 2020

   # quoted use
   $ echo "$a"
   Sat May 09 14:37:07 2020
   $ echo "$b"
   Sat  May  09  14:37:15  2020
   $ echo "$c"
   Sat  May  09  14:37:15  2020

The variable $b contains the multiple spaces you put in your date 
format. But they only survive is you quote the variable when you use 
it. [...]


I am having problems taking out the '


You've misread things.

Keep the ' quote, it is needed so that the '+.' argument remains 
_one_ argument to the date command.


We're talking about dropping the " from the "$(...)" part. So change:

 currentDate="$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"

into:

 currentDate=$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"

which does not need the double quotes because the shell parses 
currentDate=$(..) as the assignment because of the punctuation.


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/9/20 12:41 AM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 08May2020 20:32, Samuel Sieb  wrote:

On 5/8/20 4:32 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 08May2020 11:15, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:

I added inserting a Date: line and switched to using sed:

local]# cat mycron
#!/bin/sh

currentDate="$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"


You don't need the double quotes. The shell parser recognises the 
assignment statement _before_ breaking things on whitespace.


That's not entirely true.  It will compress whitespace in the output 
if you don't use quotes.

$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')
$(date +'%a  %b  %d  %T  %Y')
will end up exactly the same without the double quotes around it.


It is entirely true. The collapsing happens when you _use_ the values:

   # all safe and reliable
   $ a=$( date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')
   $ b=$( date +'%a  %b  %d  %T  Y')
   $ c=$b

   # unquoted use
   $ echo $a
   Sat May 09 14:37:07 2020
   $ echo $b
   Sat May 09 14:37:15 2020
   $ echo $c
   Sat May 09 14:37:15 2020

   # quoted use
   $ echo "$a"
   Sat May 09 14:37:07 2020
   $ echo "$b"
   Sat  May  09  14:37:15  2020
   $ echo "$c"
   Sat  May  09  14:37:15  2020

The variable $b contains the multiple spaces you put in your date 
format. But they only survive is you quote the variable when you use it.


So the assignment statements do not need the quotes because of how the 
parsing is done.


Word separation happens in command _usage_ if you don't quote because 
the shell is in some ways a macro language. But $b contains the 
multiple spaces unharmed, you just have to not use it in a destructive 
way (== unquoted).



I am having problems taking out the '

I set up a little script and run it:

$ cat mcron
#!/bin/sh

currentDate="$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"
echo "From cron@localhost  $currentDate"
[rgm@lx140e ~]$ ./mcron
From cron@localhost  Sun May 10 13:28:59 2020

Then I take out the '

$ cat mcron
#!/bin/sh

currentDate="$(date +%a %b %d %T %Y)"
echo "From cron@localhost  $currentDate"
[rgm@lx140e ~]$ ./mcron
date: extra operand ‘%b’
Try 'date --help' for more information.
From cron@localhost

I tried taking out the " as in your example and still get the error.

So I tried the %_b from the man and not dice:

$ cat mcron
#!/bin/sh

currentDate=$(date +%_a%_b%_d%_T%_Y)
echo "From cron@localhost  $currentDate"
[rgm@lx140e ~]$ ./mcron
From cron@localhost  SunMay1013:34:282020

So I am missing something compared to your experience.

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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Samuel Sieb]

On 5/8/20 9:41 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 08May2020 20:32, Samuel Sieb  wrote:

On 5/8/20 4:32 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 08May2020 11:15, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:

I added inserting a Date: line and switched to using sed:

local]# cat mycron
#!/bin/sh

currentDate="$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"


You don't need the double quotes. The shell parser recognises the 
assignment statement _before_ breaking things on whitespace.


That's not entirely true.  It will compress whitespace in the output 
if you don't use quotes.

$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')
$(date +'%a  %b  %d  %T  %Y')
will end up exactly the same without the double quotes around it.


It is entirely true. The collapsing happens when you _use_ the values:


Sorry, you are correct.  I got tripped up by how I used the variable 
after setting it.

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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Cameron Simpson]

On 08May2020 20:32, Samuel Sieb  wrote:

On 5/8/20 4:32 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 08May2020 11:15, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:

I added inserting a Date: line and switched to using sed:

local]# cat mycron
#!/bin/sh

currentDate="$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"


You don't need the double quotes. The shell parser recognises the 
assignment statement _before_ breaking things on whitespace.


That's not entirely true.  It will compress whitespace in the output 
if you don't use quotes.

$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')
$(date +'%a  %b  %d  %T  %Y')
will end up exactly the same without the double quotes around it.


It is entirely true. The collapsing happens when you _use_ the values:

   # all safe and reliable
   $ a=$( date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')
   $ b=$( date +'%a  %b  %d  %T  Y')
   $ c=$b

   # unquoted use
   $ echo $a
   Sat May 09 14:37:07 2020
   $ echo $b
   Sat May 09 14:37:15 2020
   $ echo $c
   Sat May 09 14:37:15 2020

   # quoted use
   $ echo "$a"
   Sat May 09 14:37:07 2020
   $ echo "$b"
   Sat  May  09  14:37:15  2020
   $ echo "$c"
   Sat  May  09  14:37:15  2020

The variable $b contains the multiple spaces you put in your date 
format. But they only survive is you quote the variable when you use it.


So the assignment statements do not need the quotes because of how the 
parsing is done.


Word separation happens in command _usage_ if you don't quote because 
the shell is in some ways a macro language. But $b contains the multiple 
spaces unharmed, you just have to not use it in a destructive way (== 
unquoted).


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Samuel Sieb]

On 5/8/20 4:32 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 08May2020 11:15, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:

I added inserting a Date: line and switched to using sed:

local]# cat mycron
#!/bin/sh

currentDate="$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"


You don't need the double quotes. The shell parser recognises the 
assignment statement _before_ breaking things on whitespace.


That's not entirely true.  It will compress whitespace in the output if 
you don't use quotes.

$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')
$(date +'%a  %b  %d  %T  %Y')
will end up exactly the same without the double quotes around it.
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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Cameron Simpson]

On 08May2020 11:15, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:

I added inserting a Date: line and switched to using sed:

local]# cat mycron
#!/bin/sh

currentDate="$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"


You don't need the double quotes. The shell parser recognises the 
assignment statement _before_ breaking things on whitespace.



echo "From cron@localhost  $currentDate" >> /var/spool/mail/$USER
currentDate="$(date +'%a,%e %b %Y %T %z (%Z)')"


Again, double quotes not needed.


sed "/^Status:/a Date: $currentDate" >> /var/spool/mail/$USER


You can just use echo; the Date: header does not need to be in a 
specific position.



echo "" >> /var/spool/mail/$USER


You do a lot of explicit >>mailfile. Try this:

   exec 3>>"/var/spool/mail/$USER"
   ... script ...

and just put ">&3" instead of ">>/var/spool/mail/$USER".

More readable, avoids typos, avoids gratiuitous extra opening of the 
mail file per command.


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Cameron Simpson]

On 08May2020 06:59, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:



On 5/8/20 2:24 AM, Gordon Messmer wrote:

On 5/7/20 10:44 PM, Jon LaBadie wrote:

In my mail files each message is followed by a blank line
before the next "From_" line.  Is that a requirement of
mbox format?  If so, it may be necessary to add it to
the crontab output.



Yes, it's a requirement of the format.  That's why there's an "echo" 
after "cat".  :)


Oops.  That is right.  And I need to change this to do a sed to insert 
a Date: line in the right place...


"The right place"? You can do it with echo, just make it the first 
header.


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Cameron Simpson]

On 08May2020 06:56, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:

On 5/8/20 2:08 AM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
You _do_ need to ensure the message at least ends with a newline, of 
the From_ won't be at the start of a line. So the previously posted 
script ensures that with the "echo" in "( cat; echo )". If you want to 
ensure a blank line you also need an additional "echo".


Working on it.  Plus I have to sed in a Date: line.


Note that the From_ line uses a UNIX ctime format date, while all the 
dates in the message headers use the RFC5322 date format, described 
here:


   https://tools.ietf.org/rfcmarkup/5322#page-14


Or Robert could install an MDA and make it the MDA's problem :-)


What fun would that be?

Plus I have always thought of this as a deficiency in cron on a 
workstation.  Cron should work (report in this case) properly without 
needing something else (MTA) installed.  Maybe the developers will pick 
this up and do it right...


Except that sending an email to the user is close to an _ideal_ way to 
send a chunk of output from an unattended task. A proper UNIX system has 
an email system supplied IMO. Why not use it?


By what mechanism would you prefer it report? syslog (gah!)?

Writing to a log file is easily done just by prefixing the shell line 
with a redirection to a file, eg change:


   * * * * * shell command ...

to:

   * * * * * exec >>$HOME/var/log/cron/"`date`.log" 2>&1; shell command ...

What other sophistication do you seek?

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Samuel Sieb]

On 5/8/20 11:08 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

On 5/8/20 1:58 PM, Mike Wright wrote:

There's a tiny MDA called femtomail that delivers into a Maildir.


Well first I need mbox, not maildir format.


mutt can read Maildir as well.  Maildir is a much better mail storage 
method than mbox.


Provide it a USERNAME and MAILBOX_PATH and do a make and it will 
produce a binary (back in 2016 it was 38724 bytes) usable for the 
specified user.


It does not seem to be in the F32 repos, so I would have to make it.


It's only a couple of files, trivial to build.
It's not something that could be packaged because you have to adjust a 
couple of settings like the username before compiling.


And yes, I understand that learning to make your own simple MDA can be 
fun as well.

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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/8/20 2:01 PM, Samuel Sieb wrote:

On 5/8/20 10:58 AM, Mike Wright wrote:

On 5/8/20 9:55 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/8/20 12:39 PM, Tim via users wrote:

On Fri, 2020-05-08 at 06:56 -0400, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

Plus I have always thought of this as a deficiency in cron on a
workstation.  Cron should work (report in this case) properly
without needing something else (MTA) installed.

Does it though?  There's always /var/log/cron.  Or that other journal
log thing that is too convoluted for me to want to use.
It depends on what you are doing in your cron scripts.  It can be 
argued that mine really don't need to go to emails, but I decided to 
do it...


There's a tiny MDA called femtomail that delivers into a Maildir.


I linked to that project much earlier in this thread.


Yes, and I do remember that...

but I would have to get the source and the rest of that.  What I am 
doing is more interesting; for now.


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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/8/20 1:58 PM, Mike Wright wrote:

On 5/8/20 9:55 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/8/20 12:39 PM, Tim via users wrote:

On Fri, 2020-05-08 at 06:56 -0400, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

Plus I have always thought of this as a deficiency in cron on a
workstation.  Cron should work (report in this case) properly
without needing something else (MTA) installed.

Does it though?  There's always /var/log/cron.  Or that other journal
log thing that is too convoluted for me to want to use.
It depends on what you are doing in your cron scripts.  It can be 
argued that mine really don't need to go to emails, but I decided to 
do it...


There's a tiny MDA called femtomail that delivers into a Maildir.


Well first I need mbox, not maildir format.



Provide it a USERNAME and MAILBOX_PATH and do a make and it will 
produce a binary (back in 2016 it was 38724 bytes) usable for the 
specified user.


It does not seem to be in the F32 repos, so I would have to make it.

sendmail is 4.5M, dovecot is almost 10M, postfix is almost 5M. 
Comparatively femtomail is miniscule.  Now I realize that comparing 
femtomail to those is like comparing a checker player to a chess 
master but it does look like it might fit the bill.


Something to think about.

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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Samuel Sieb]

On 5/8/20 10:58 AM, Mike Wright wrote:

On 5/8/20 9:55 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/8/20 12:39 PM, Tim via users wrote:

On Fri, 2020-05-08 at 06:56 -0400, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

Plus I have always thought of this as a deficiency in cron on a
workstation.  Cron should work (report in this case) properly
without needing something else (MTA) installed.

Does it though?  There's always /var/log/cron.  Or that other journal
log thing that is too convoluted for me to want to use.
It depends on what you are doing in your cron scripts.  It can be 
argued that mine really don't need to go to emails, but I decided to 
do it...


There's a tiny MDA called femtomail that delivers into a Maildir.


I linked to that project much earlier in this thread.
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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Mike Wright]

On 5/8/20 9:55 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/8/20 12:39 PM, Tim via users wrote:

On Fri, 2020-05-08 at 06:56 -0400, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

Plus I have always thought of this as a deficiency in cron on a
workstation.  Cron should work (report in this case) properly
without needing something else (MTA) installed.

Does it though?  There's always /var/log/cron.  Or that other journal
log thing that is too convoluted for me to want to use.
It depends on what you are doing in your cron scripts.  It can be argued 
that mine really don't need to go to emails, but I decided to do it...


There's a tiny MDA called femtomail that delivers into a Maildir.

Provide it a USERNAME and MAILBOX_PATH and do a make and it will produce 
a binary (back in 2016 it was 38724 bytes) usable for the specified user.


sendmail is 4.5M, dovecot is almost 10M, postfix is almost 5M. 
Comparatively femtomail is miniscule.  Now I realize that comparing 
femtomail to those is like comparing a checker player to a chess master 
but it does look like it might fit the bill.

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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/8/20 12:39 PM, Tim via users wrote:

On Fri, 2020-05-08 at 06:56 -0400, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

Plus I have always thought of this as a deficiency in cron on a
workstation.  Cron should work (report in this case) properly
without needing something else (MTA) installed.

Does it though?  There's always /var/log/cron.  Or that other journal
log thing that is too convoluted for me to want to use.
  
It depends on what you are doing in your cron scripts.  It can be argued 
that mine really don't need to go to emails, but I decided to do it...


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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Tim via users]

On Fri, 2020-05-08 at 06:56 -0400, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> Plus I have always thought of this as a deficiency in cron on a 
> workstation.  Cron should work (report in this case) properly
> without needing something else (MTA) installed.

Does it though?  There's always /var/log/cron.  Or that other journal
log thing that is too convoluted for me to want to use.
 
-- 
 
uname -rsvp
Linux 3.10.0-1127.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Mar 31 23:36:51 UTC 2020 x86_64
 
Boilerplate:  All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.
 
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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/8/20 10:03 AM, Jon LaBadie wrote:

On Thu, May 07, 2020 at 11:24:41PM -0700, Gordon Messmer wrote:

On 5/7/20 10:44 PM, Jon LaBadie wrote:

In my mail files each message is followed by a blank line
before the next "From_" line.  Is that a requirement of
mbox format?  If so, it may be necessary to add it to
the crontab output.


Yes, it's a requirement of the format.  That's why there's an "echo" after
"cat".  :)

except cat is not guarenteed to EOF after a newline.


New script.

I added inserting a Date: line and switched to using sed:

local]# cat mycron
#!/bin/sh

currentDate="$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"
echo "From cron@localhost  $currentDate" >> /var/spool/mail/$USER
currentDate="$(date +'%a,%e %b %Y %T %z (%Z)')"
sed "/^Status:/a Date: $currentDate" >> /var/spool/mail/$USER
echo "" >> /var/spool/mail/$USER

==

Took a bit to get the date function outputing the right formats.

I still suspect I am missing an important mail header.  Mutt takes a 
long time to start up compared to a CentOS system that DOES have postfix 
and cron is sending the mail to local store.


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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Jon LaBadie]

On Thu, May 07, 2020 at 11:24:41PM -0700, Gordon Messmer wrote:
> On 5/7/20 10:44 PM, Jon LaBadie wrote:
> > In my mail files each message is followed by a blank line
> > before the next "From_" line.  Is that a requirement of
> > mbox format?  If so, it may be necessary to add it to
> > the crontab output.
> 
> 
> Yes, it's a requirement of the format.  That's why there's an "echo" after
> "cat".  :)

except cat is not guarenteed to EOF after a newline.

-- 
Jon H. LaBadie  jo...@jgcomp.com
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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/8/20 6:04 AM, Tim via users wrote:

On Fri, 2020-05-08 at 01:44 -0400, Jon LaBadie wrote:

In my mail files each message is followed by a blank line
before the next "From_" line.  Is that a requirement of
mbox format?  If so, it may be necessary to add it to
the crontab output.

It's how mbox works, each email is concatenated into one huge file, and
that's the separator (a blank line, then a "from" line at the beginning
of the next message).  i.e. It's an mbox thing, not a general email
thing.

Of course, it's entirely possible for someone to write an email,
starting off a new paragraph with the word from, and that'll confuse
the heck of dumbly written email software.  Typically, they'll split
the email there, you'll only see what appeared before it, and the rest
of the mail will be completely lost.


Well I kind of just did exactly that by pasteing in an email that was in 
the mbox!


Of course, I am sending email with rich html, so it is not received as 
just a plain text file to mess up anyone using an mbox reader.


Got to love this stuff.  Otherwise you would go crazier!




I say dumb, because it's well known that people might write an email
that way, they should't have to word their emails some other way, and
email software should be able to handle it, one way or another.  The
usual way is that some mail handler will add a character into the text,
somewhere, to make it different (e.g. shove a > in front, or add
another character after the word from).  That could be your own email
program, munging the message as it sends it (another dumb thing), or it
could be an email server munging messages as it passes through them
knowing that *it* is going to store its messages in a mbox file (just
acceptable), or some email server munging messages passing through it
in case some other mail server can't handle it (another dumb thing).

Another way of handling it is for your mail server to not use a from
line, and be able to ignore the word "from" appearing in a message.
Whether that be using some other non-standard message separation method
of their own, or an addition (such as adding details to the "from line"
about the length of the message, so the server doesn't break apart
messages when the word "from" appears before the end of the message),
or a different mail storage technique.  e.g. Maildir stores each email
as a separate file, so doesn't need to use that technique.
  

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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Francis . Montagnac]

Hi.

On Fri, 08 May 2020 06:56:58 -0400 Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> On 5/8/20 2:08 AM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

>> You _do_ need to ensure the message at least ends with a newline, of 
>> the From_ won't be at the start of a line. So the previously posted 
>> script ensures that with the "echo" in "( cat; echo )". If you want to 
>> ensure a blank line you also need an additional "echo".

> Working on it. Plus I have to sed in a Date: line.

>> Or Robert could install an MDA and make it the MDA's problem :-)

> What fun would that be?

IMO none :-(

> Plus I have always thought of this as a deficiency in cron on a 
> workstation. Cron should work (report in this case) properly without 
> needing something else (MTA) installed.

There is an alternative to cron: systemd.timer

See my previous post:

  
https://lists.fedoraproject.org/archives/list/users@lists.fedoraproject.org/message/4WZ2QUP7XYV7AJDKL4QBMV7KBD4ALCMI/

In your case you will have to use the service manager of your account
instead of the system one.

In short, use "systemctl --user" "journalctl --user".

Assuming you write a rsync-ietf.service file, you can then use:

  ## Status of this rsync:
  systemctl --user status rsync-ietf.service
  
  ## Logs since midnight:
  journalctl --user --since 00:00 -u rsync-ietf.service

I can give more help if you want to use that.

-- 
francis
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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/8/20 2:24 AM, Gordon Messmer wrote:

On 5/7/20 10:44 PM, Jon LaBadie wrote:

In my mail files each message is followed by a blank line
before the next "From_" line.  Is that a requirement of
mbox format?  If so, it may be necessary to add it to
the crontab output.



Yes, it's a requirement of the format.  That's why there's an "echo" 
after "cat".  :)


Oops.  That is right.  And I need to change this to do a sed to insert a 
Date: line in the right place...


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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/8/20 2:08 AM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 08May2020 01:44, Jon LaBadie  wrote:

On Fri, May 08, 2020 at 09:57:33AM +1000, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 07May2020 15:01, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
> /ustr/sbin/mycron:
> #!/bin/sh
>
> currentDate="$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"
> echo "From cron@localhost  "$currentDate >> /var/spool/mail/$USER

Put $currentDate inside the quotes. With echo it is less of an 
issue, but
for many other commands you should exert more control over strings.  
So as a

matter of practice:

   echo "From cron@localhost $currentDate"

If nothing else it prevents filename expansion happening to the 
value of
$currentDate. (Not that that will happen with the date format 
chosen, but

again, as a general practice in scripting.)


In my mail files each message is followed by a blank line
before the next "From_" line.  Is that a requirement of
mbox format?  If so, it may be necessary to add it to
the crontab output.


Kinda. Depends on the thing parsing the mbox file. To avoid misparsing 
message body lines which themselves commance with "From " some things 
only consider a From_ line after a blank line. Others rely on ">" 
stuffing. It is all a mess.


You _do_ need to ensure the message at least ends with a newline, of 
the From_ won't be at the start of a line. So the previously posted 
script ensures that with the "echo" in "( cat; echo )". If you want to 
ensure a blank line you also need an additional "echo".


Working on it.  Plus I have to sed in a Date: line.


Or Robert could install an MDA and make it the MDA's problem :-)


What fun would that be?

Plus I have always thought of this as a deficiency in cron on a 
workstation.  Cron should work (report in this case) properly without 
needing something else (MTA) installed.  Maybe the developers will pick 
this up and do it right...





Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/8/20 1:16 AM, Tim via users wrote:

On Thu, 2020-05-07 at 09:09 -0500, Roger Heflin wrote:

In general if you set up the cronjobs to redirect stdout and stderr
to a file then typically there is nothing to email.

Just thinking out loud:  If your scripts generate their own logs, you
see the results of your scripts.  But if cron generates its logs, you
see the results of cron executing your scripts.  Might there be a
difference beyond the obvious of knowing it was run by cron?
  

I kind of have it working.

There is a bit of valuable info in the headers from cron.

I have to modify my script to add a Date: line, but:



From cron@localhost  Fri May 08 04:01:10 2020
From: "(Cron Daemon)" 
To: rgm
Subject: Cron  rsync -tvz 
rsync.tools.ietf.org::tools.id/*.txt /home

/common/ietf/drafts
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
Precedence: bulk
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
Status: RO
Content-Length: 1212
Lines: 32

1id-abstracts.txt
skipping non-regular file "code.txt"
1id-index.txt
all_id.txt
all_id2.txt
draft-bdc-something-something-certificate-04.txt
draft-chen-top-level-interface-protocol-01.txt
draft-iesg-nomcom-eligibility-2020-03.txt
draft-ietf-cbor-date-tag-00.txt
draft-ietf-ccamp-layer0-types-04.txt
draft-ietf-i2nsf-nsf-facing-interface-dm-09.txt
draft-ietf-i2nsf-nsf-monitoring-data-model-03.txt
draft-ietf-idr-bgp-bfd-strict-mode-03.txt
draft-ietf-lisp-predictive-rlocs-06.txt
draft-ietf-lsvr-l3dl-04.txt
draft-ietf-mpls-lsp-ping-ospfv3-codepoint-02.txt
draft-ietf-opsawg-sdi-09.txt
draft-ietf-roll-aodv-rpl-08.txt
draft-ietf-spring-segment-routing-policy-07.txt
draft-ietf-tsvwg-datagram-plpmtud-20.txt
draft-irtf-icnrg-icn-lte-4g-06.txt
draft-jeong-ipwave-context-aware-navigator-01.txt
draft-jeong-ipwave-iot-dns-autoconf-08.txt
draft-jeong-ipwave-security-privacy-01.txt
draft-jeong-ipwave-vehicular-mobility-management-03.txt
draft-jeong-ipwave-vehicular-neighbor-discovery-09.txt
draft-yang-i2nsf-security-policy-translation-06.txt
draft-zheng-ccamp-client-pm-yang-01.txt
replaced_id.txt

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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Tim via users]

On Fri, 2020-05-08 at 01:44 -0400, Jon LaBadie wrote:
> In my mail files each message is followed by a blank line
> before the next "From_" line.  Is that a requirement of
> mbox format?  If so, it may be necessary to add it to
> the crontab output.

It's how mbox works, each email is concatenated into one huge file, and
that's the separator (a blank line, then a "from" line at the beginning
of the next message).  i.e. It's an mbox thing, not a general email
thing.

Of course, it's entirely possible for someone to write an email,
starting off a new paragraph with the word from, and that'll confuse
the heck of dumbly written email software.  Typically, they'll split
the email there, you'll only see what appeared before it, and the rest
of the mail will be completely lost.

I say dumb, because it's well known that people might write an email
that way, they should't have to word their emails some other way, and
email software should be able to handle it, one way or another.  The
usual way is that some mail handler will add a character into the text,
somewhere, to make it different (e.g. shove a > in front, or add
another character after the word from).  That could be your own email
program, munging the message as it sends it (another dumb thing), or it
could be an email server munging messages as it passes through them
knowing that *it* is going to store its messages in a mbox file (just
acceptable), or some email server munging messages passing through it
in case some other mail server can't handle it (another dumb thing).

Another way of handling it is for your mail server to not use a from
line, and be able to ignore the word "from" appearing in a message. 
Whether that be using some other non-standard message separation method
of their own, or an addition (such as adding details to the "from line"
about the length of the message, so the server doesn't break apart
messages when the word "from" appears before the end of the message),
or a different mail storage technique.  e.g. Maildir stores each email
as a separate file, so doesn't need to use that technique.
 
-- 
 
uname -rsvp
Linux 3.10.0-1127.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Mar 31 23:36:51 UTC 2020 x86_64
 
Boilerplate:  All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.
 
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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Gordon Messmer]

On 5/7/20 10:44 PM, Jon LaBadie wrote:

In my mail files each message is followed by a blank line
before the next "From_" line.  Is that a requirement of
mbox format?  If so, it may be necessary to add it to
the crontab output.



Yes, it's a requirement of the format.  That's why there's an "echo" 
after "cat".  :)


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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Cameron Simpson]

On 08May2020 01:44, Jon LaBadie  wrote:

On Fri, May 08, 2020 at 09:57:33AM +1000, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 07May2020 15:01, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
> /ustr/sbin/mycron:
> #!/bin/sh
>
> currentDate="$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"
> echo "From cron@localhost  "$currentDate >> /var/spool/mail/$USER

Put $currentDate inside the quotes. With echo it is less of an issue, but
for many other commands you should exert more control over strings.  So as a
matter of practice:

   echo "From cron@localhost $currentDate"

If nothing else it prevents filename expansion happening to the value of
$currentDate. (Not that that will happen with the date format chosen, but
again, as a general practice in scripting.)


In my mail files each message is followed by a blank line
before the next "From_" line.  Is that a requirement of
mbox format?  If so, it may be necessary to add it to
the crontab output.


Kinda. Depends on the thing parsing the mbox file. To avoid misparsing 
message body lines which themselves commance with "From " some things 
only consider a From_ line after a blank line. Others rely on ">" 
stuffing. It is all a mess.


You _do_ need to ensure the message at least ends with a newline, of the 
From_ won't be at the start of a line. So the previously posted script 
ensures that with the "echo" in "( cat; echo )". If you want to ensure a 
blank line you also need an additional "echo".


Or Robert could install an MDA and make it the MDA's problem :-)

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Jon LaBadie]

On Fri, May 08, 2020 at 09:57:33AM +1000, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> On 07May2020 15:01, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
> > /ustr/sbin/mycron:
> > #!/bin/sh
> > 
> > currentDate="$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"
> > echo "From cron@localhost  "$currentDate >> /var/spool/mail/$USER
> 
> Put $currentDate inside the quotes. With echo it is less of an issue, but
> for many other commands you should exert more control over strings.  So as a
> matter of practice:
> 
>echo "From cron@localhost $currentDate"
> 
> If nothing else it prevents filename expansion happening to the value of
> $currentDate. (Not that that will happen with the date format chosen, but
> again, as a general practice in scripting.)
> 
In my mail files each message is followed by a blank line
before the next "From_" line.  Is that a requirement of
mbox format?  If so, it may be necessary to add it to
the crontab output.

Jon
-- 
Jon H. LaBadie  jo...@jgcomp.com
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Re: user crontab

[Tim via users]

On Thu, 2020-05-07 at 09:09 -0500, Roger Heflin wrote:
> In general if you set up the cronjobs to redirect stdout and stderr
> to a file then typically there is nothing to email.

Just thinking out loud:  If your scripts generate their own logs, you
see the results of your scripts.  But if cron generates its logs, you
see the results of cron executing your scripts.  Might there be a
difference beyond the obvious of knowing it was run by cron?
 
-- 
 
uname -rsvp
Linux 3.10.0-1127.el7.x86_64 #1 SMP Tue Mar 31 23:36:51 UTC 2020 x86_64
 
Boilerplate:  All unexpected mail to my mailbox is automatically deleted.
I will only get to see the messages that are posted to the mailing list.
 
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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Cameron Simpson]

On 07May2020 15:01, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:

/ustr/sbin/mycron:
#!/bin/sh

currentDate="$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"
echo "From cron@localhost  "$currentDate >> /var/spool/mail/$USER


Put $currentDate inside the quotes. With echo it is less of an issue, 
but for many other commands you should exert more control over strings.  
So as a matter of practice:


   echo "From cron@localhost $currentDate"

If nothing else it prevents filename expansion happening to the value of 
$currentDate. (Not that that will happen with the date format chosen, 
but again, as a general practice in scripting.)


Also:
[...]
It SEEMs that what I am missing is a FROM: line at the beginning that 
mutt can handle.  Perhaps something like:


From cron@localhost  Thu May 07 13:15:01 2020

Note no colon after 'From' and a timestamp


Note that that is _not_ a "From:" line. A "From:" line is a message 
header line strating with "From:". Like the "To:" and "Subject:" etc in 
most message headers.


What you're supplying is the "message envelope" delimiter line used in 
mbox files, which starts with "From ". It is often called a From_ line 
(note the trailing undescore) specificly to distinguish it in 
conversation from a message header line. It isn't part of the message, 
if it part of the mbox syntax delimiting messages.


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: user crontab

[Cameron Simpson]

On 07May2020 12:43, Joe Zeff  wrote:

On 05/07/2020 08:04 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

So all I need is a script at /usr/bin/mycron


Actually, you can put it wherever you want, including ~/bin, as long 
as you give the complete path.  /usr/bin may be the best place, but 
it's not the only place.  Just a thought.


I would use /usr/local/bin. /bin and /usr/bin are "owned" my the OS 
vendor (Fedora), and they might tread on your script in the future.  
/usr/local/bin is nicely out of the way, which still in the default 
$PATH.


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: user crontab

[Cameron Simpson]

On 07May2020 07:38, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:

On 5/6/20 11:06 PM, Gordon Messmer wrote:
Technically, no.  If you only want to deliver the messages locally, 
then you only need an MDA, not an MTA.  In fact, you could just create 
/usr/sbin/sendmail as a simple shell script:


#!/bin/sh

(cat; echo) >> $HOME/cron-output


Now I am getting some place.  But I would want it to go to

/var/spool/mail/$USER

Also there is already a /usr/sbin/sendmail on the system.  I am 
concerned that if I replace it with your example, a later update will 
remove it.


Indeed. Find out what package owns it. "rpm -qf /usr/sbin/sendmail" used 
to be the go, not sure of the matching dnf or yum incantation.


I looked at man crontab.5 and did not see a way to specify the mail 
command to run for the cron output.


There isn't. It uses the "system mail", use _is_ /usr/sbin/sendmail.

And finally, how could I test this after setting it up instead of 
waiting for the scheduled time?


A 1 minute cron job?

* * * * * echo hello

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: user crontab

[Cameron Simpson]

On 07May2020 09:25, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
The bottom of that manual entry describes the "mta" setting, and 
says that esmtp relies on a local MTA for local delivery (addresses 
without an "@"). So you'll need something additional anyway. May as 
well go straight to a proper MTA.


And then, to my chagrin, I reread and see it provides example 
"mta" values like:


   /usr/bin/procmail -d %T

So you may be good there.


Would first have to install procmail for this.


Yes, or one of the other suggestions. You need a delivery agent of some 
kind.


It would be interesting to find a 'simple' python script to grab the 
cron output and 'make' an email and appended to the spool/mail


Someone has already posts a simple shell script for that purpose to this 
discussion.


I am finding things about python and email that is leading me down 
many roads.


First is how does CRON even send emails?  The MAILTO option triggers 
where to send email, but what is the how?  What is CRON using to grab 
its output and stuff that into what emailer program?


Cron collects the command output and if not empty feeds it to 
"/usr/sbin/sendmail -oi "$MAILTO"". So your need to intercept that.  
installing an MTA installs a sendmail executable.


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: Working! - Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

/ustr/sbin/mycron:

#!/bin/sh

currentDate="$(date +'%a %b %d %T %Y')"
echo "From cron@localhost  "$currentDate >> /var/spool/mail/$USER
(cat; echo) >> /var/spool/mail/$USER

/etc/sysconfig/crond:

# Settings for the CRON daemon.
# CRONDARGS= :  any extra command-line startup arguments for crond
CRONDARGS= -m "/usr/sbin/mycron"

And there you have your cron output going to the local mail store 
without a mailer.  View with mutt or other mbox viewer.


That date format is important...

Whew.


On 5/7/20 2:00 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
I have dug a bit into mbox fomat and looked at one system that has 
some mail in root's mbox.


It SEEMs that what I am missing is a FROM: line at the beginning that 
mutt can handle.  Perhaps something like:


From cron@localhost  Thu May 07 13:15:01 2020

Note no colon after 'From' and a timestamp

How can I make a command to add to my script to create this? Meanwhile 
I keep digging.


thanks

On 5/7/20 1:24 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

First I made a script at /usr/sbin/mycron

#!/bin/sh

(cat; echo) >> /var/spool/mail/$USER


Then I changed cat /etc/sysconfig/crond

# Settings for the CRON daemon.
# CRONDARGS= :  any extra command-line startup arguments for crond
CRONDARGS= -m "/usr/sbin/mycron"

And restarted crond

Next I changed my crontab with:

15 * * * * ls /home/rgm

I know have mail waiting in /var/spool/mail/rgm, but mutt can't 
process it.  So I am missing something in the format of mail in 
/var/spool/mail.  Can someone point me to the proper format?


What I have there from the cron of that ls is:

From: "(Cron Daemon)" 
To: rgm
Subject: Cron  ls /home/rgm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
Precedence: bulk
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 

arm
bin
data
Desktop
Documents
Downloads
Music
odds
Pictures
Public
r
rcd
Templates
test
tftpboot
uasca
Videos



On 5/7/20 10:04 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/7/20 9:25 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/7/20 7:48 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/6/20 11:34 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 07May2020 13:19, Cameron Simpson  wrote:

On 06May2020 20:20, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
I am reading up on esmtp which comes with the base install and 
seemingly no mta needed?


Anyway
https://linux.die.net/man/5/esmtprc

shows how to config for sending an email via esmtp to an mta, 
but not just local delivery...


The bottom of that manual entry describes the "mta" setting, and 
says that esmtp relies on a local MTA for local delivery 
(addresses without an "@"). So you'll need something additional 
anyway. May as well go straight to a proper MTA.


And then, to my chagrin, I reread and see it provides example 
"mta" values like:


   /usr/bin/procmail -d %T

So you may be good there.


Would first have to install procmail for this.

It would be interesting to find a 'simple' python script to grab 
the cron output and 'make' an email and appended to the spool/mail


I am finding things about python and email that is leading me down 
many roads.


First is how does CRON even send emails?  The MAILTO option 
triggers where to send email, but what is the how?  What is CRON 
using to grab its output and stuff that into what emailer program?


My digging is that CRON needs some email server installed, like 
postfix, before it will send emails of its stdout.  But where is 
this controlled so I can change it?


Ah, looking at man crond.5:

   -m This  option  allows  you  to specify a shell command 
to use for
  sending Cron mail output instead of using sendmail(8) 
This  com‐
  mand  must  accept a fully formatted mail message 
(with headers)
  on standard input and send it as a mail message to 
the  recipi‐
  ents  specified  in the mail headers. Specifying the 
string off

  (i.e., crond -m off) will disable the sending of mail.

So all I need is a script at /usr/bin/mycron

#!/bin/sh

something
something

So what do I put in the -m arg and in mycron so that this output 
gets appended to /var/spool/mail/MAILTO


?

Thanks

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Re: user crontab

[Joe Zeff]

On 05/07/2020 08:04 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:


So all I need is a script at /usr/bin/mycron


Actually, you can put it wherever you want, including ~/bin, as long as 
you give the complete path.  /usr/bin may be the best place, but it's 
not the only place.  Just a thought.

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Re: Almost working - Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

I have dug a bit into mbox fomat and looked at one system that has some 
mail in root's mbox.


It SEEMs that what I am missing is a FROM: line at the beginning that 
mutt can handle.  Perhaps something like:


From cron@localhost  Thu May 07 13:15:01 2020

Note no colon after 'From' and a timestamp

How can I make a command to add to my script to create this? Meanwhile I 
keep digging.


thanks

On 5/7/20 1:24 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

First I made a script at /usr/sbin/mycron

#!/bin/sh

(cat; echo) >> /var/spool/mail/$USER


Then I changed cat /etc/sysconfig/crond

# Settings for the CRON daemon.
# CRONDARGS= :  any extra command-line startup arguments for crond
CRONDARGS= -m "/usr/sbin/mycron"

And restarted crond

Next I changed my crontab with:

15 * * * * ls /home/rgm

I know have mail waiting in /var/spool/mail/rgm, but mutt can't 
process it.  So I am missing something in the format of mail in 
/var/spool/mail.  Can someone point me to the proper format?


What I have there from the cron of that ls is:

From: "(Cron Daemon)" 
To: rgm
Subject: Cron  ls /home/rgm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
Precedence: bulk
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 

arm
bin
data
Desktop
Documents
Downloads
Music
odds
Pictures
Public
r
rcd
Templates
test
tftpboot
uasca
Videos



On 5/7/20 10:04 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/7/20 9:25 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/7/20 7:48 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/6/20 11:34 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 07May2020 13:19, Cameron Simpson  wrote:

On 06May2020 20:20, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
I am reading up on esmtp which comes with the base install and 
seemingly no mta needed?


Anyway
https://linux.die.net/man/5/esmtprc

shows how to config for sending an email via esmtp to an mta, 
but not just local delivery...


The bottom of that manual entry describes the "mta" setting, and 
says that esmtp relies on a local MTA for local delivery 
(addresses without an "@"). So you'll need something additional 
anyway. May as well go straight to a proper MTA.


And then, to my chagrin, I reread and see it provides example 
"mta" values like:


   /usr/bin/procmail -d %T

So you may be good there.


Would first have to install procmail for this.

It would be interesting to find a 'simple' python script to grab 
the cron output and 'make' an email and appended to the spool/mail


I am finding things about python and email that is leading me down 
many roads.


First is how does CRON even send emails?  The MAILTO option triggers 
where to send email, but what is the how?  What is CRON using to 
grab its output and stuff that into what emailer program?


My digging is that CRON needs some email server installed, like 
postfix, before it will send emails of its stdout.  But where is 
this controlled so I can change it?


Ah, looking at man crond.5:

   -m This  option  allows  you  to specify a shell command 
to use for
  sending Cron mail output instead of using sendmail(8) 
This  com‐
  mand  must  accept a fully formatted mail message (with 
headers)
  on standard input and send it as a mail message to the  
recipi‐
  ents  specified  in the mail headers.  Specifying the 
string off

  (i.e., crond -m off) will disable the sending of mail.

So all I need is a script at /usr/bin/mycron

#!/bin/sh

something
something

So what do I put in the -m arg and in mycron so that this output gets 
appended to /var/spool/mail/MAILTO


?

Thanks

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Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/7/20 1:24 PM, Alexander Dalloz wrote:

Am 07.05.2020 um 02:11 schrieb Robert Moskowitz:

Cameron,

Oh I have done a lot with postfix:

http://www.htt-consult.com/Centos7-mailserver.html


Showing a broken / incomplete submission and submissions setup in 
master.cf of Postfix.


Notice it says work-in-progress.

Any tips gladly accepted.  I have not worked on this in a year, and I 
REALLY need to get back to it and get it working.


The obvious problems are with the amavis and following parts.

But it is a good step forward from so many guides that have, "replace 
your main.cf with this!".


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Re: user crontab

[Alexander Dalloz]

Am 07.05.2020 um 02:11 schrieb Robert Moskowitz:

Cameron,

Oh I have done a lot with postfix:

http://www.htt-consult.com/Centos7-mailserver.html


Showing a broken / incomplete submission and submissions setup in 
master.cf of Postfix.


Alexander

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Almost working - Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

First I made a script at /usr/sbin/mycron

#!/bin/sh

(cat; echo) >> /var/spool/mail/$USER


Then I changed cat /etc/sysconfig/crond

# Settings for the CRON daemon.
# CRONDARGS= :  any extra command-line startup arguments for crond
CRONDARGS= -m "/usr/sbin/mycron"

And restarted crond

Next I changed my crontab with:

15 * * * * ls /home/rgm

I know have mail waiting in /var/spool/mail/rgm, but mutt can't process 
it.  So I am missing something in the format of mail in 
/var/spool/mail.  Can someone point me to the proper format?


What I have there from the cron of that ls is:

From: "(Cron Daemon)" 
To: rgm
Subject: Cron  ls /home/rgm
MIME-Version: 1.0
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8
Auto-Submitted: auto-generated
Precedence: bulk
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 
X-Cron-Env: 

arm
bin
data
Desktop
Documents
Downloads
Music
odds
Pictures
Public
r
rcd
Templates
test
tftpboot
uasca
Videos



On 5/7/20 10:04 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/7/20 9:25 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/7/20 7:48 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/6/20 11:34 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 07May2020 13:19, Cameron Simpson  wrote:

On 06May2020 20:20, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
I am reading up on esmtp which comes with the base install and 
seemingly no mta needed?


Anyway
https://linux.die.net/man/5/esmtprc

shows how to config for sending an email via esmtp to an mta, but 
not just local delivery...


The bottom of that manual entry describes the "mta" setting, and 
says that esmtp relies on a local MTA for local delivery 
(addresses without an "@"). So you'll need something additional 
anyway. May as well go straight to a proper MTA.


And then, to my chagrin, I reread and see it provides example "mta" 
values like:


   /usr/bin/procmail -d %T

So you may be good there.


Would first have to install procmail for this.

It would be interesting to find a 'simple' python script to grab the 
cron output and 'make' an email and appended to the spool/mail


I am finding things about python and email that is leading me down 
many roads.


First is how does CRON even send emails?  The MAILTO option triggers 
where to send email, but what is the how?  What is CRON using to grab 
its output and stuff that into what emailer program?


My digging is that CRON needs some email server installed, like 
postfix, before it will send emails of its stdout.  But where is this 
controlled so I can change it?


Ah, looking at man crond.5:

   -m This  option  allows  you  to specify a shell command to 
use for
  sending Cron mail output instead of using sendmail(8) 
This  com‐
  mand  must  accept a fully formatted mail message (with 
headers)
  on standard input and send it as a mail message to the  
recipi‐
  ents  specified  in the mail headers.  Specifying the 
string off

  (i.e., crond -m off) will disable the sending of mail.

So all I need is a script at /usr/bin/mycron

#!/bin/sh

something
something

So what do I put in the -m arg and in mycron so that this output gets 
appended to /var/spool/mail/MAILTO


?

Thanks

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Re: user crontab

[Roger Heflin]

In general if you set up the cronjobs to redirect stdout and stderr to
a file then typically there is nothing to email.

Often if you have only a few systems this is easier to use.

On Thu, May 7, 2020 at 8:29 AM Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
>
>
>
> On 5/7/20 7:48 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
> >
> >
> > On 5/6/20 11:34 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> >> On 07May2020 13:19, Cameron Simpson  wrote:
> >>> On 06May2020 20:20, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
>  I am reading up on esmtp which comes with the base install and
>  seemingly no mta needed?
> 
>  Anyway
>  https://linux.die.net/man/5/esmtprc
> 
>  shows how to config for sending an email via esmtp to an mta, but
>  not just local delivery...
> >>>
> >>> The bottom of that manual entry describes the "mta" setting, and
> >>> says that esmtp relies on a local MTA for local delivery (addresses
> >>> without an "@"). So you'll need something additional anyway. May as
> >>> well go straight to a proper MTA.
> >>
> >> And then, to my chagrin, I reread and see it provides example "mta"
> >> values like:
> >>
> >>/usr/bin/procmail -d %T
> >>
> >> So you may be good there.
> >
> > Would first have to install procmail for this.
> >
> > It would be interesting to find a 'simple' python script to grab the
> > cron output and 'make' an email and appended to the spool/mail
>
> I am finding things about python and email that is leading me down many
> roads.
>
> First is how does CRON even send emails?  The MAILTO option triggers
> where to send email, but what is the how?  What is CRON using to grab
> its output and stuff that into what emailer program?
>
> My digging is that CRON needs some email server installed, like postfix,
> before it will send emails of its stdout.  But where is this controlled
> so I can change it?
>
> thanks
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Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/7/20 9:25 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/7/20 7:48 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/6/20 11:34 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 07May2020 13:19, Cameron Simpson  wrote:

On 06May2020 20:20, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
I am reading up on esmtp which comes with the base install and 
seemingly no mta needed?


Anyway
https://linux.die.net/man/5/esmtprc

shows how to config for sending an email via esmtp to an mta, but 
not just local delivery...


The bottom of that manual entry describes the "mta" setting, and 
says that esmtp relies on a local MTA for local delivery (addresses 
without an "@"). So you'll need something additional anyway. May as 
well go straight to a proper MTA.


And then, to my chagrin, I reread and see it provides example "mta" 
values like:


   /usr/bin/procmail -d %T

So you may be good there.


Would first have to install procmail for this.

It would be interesting to find a 'simple' python script to grab the 
cron output and 'make' an email and appended to the spool/mail


I am finding things about python and email that is leading me down 
many roads.


First is how does CRON even send emails?  The MAILTO option triggers 
where to send email, but what is the how?  What is CRON using to grab 
its output and stuff that into what emailer program?


My digging is that CRON needs some email server installed, like 
postfix, before it will send emails of its stdout.  But where is this 
controlled so I can change it?


Ah, looking at man crond.5:

   -m This  option  allows  you  to specify a shell command to 
use for
  sending Cron mail output instead of using sendmail(8) 
This  com‐
  mand  must  accept a fully formatted mail message (with 
headers)
  on standard input and send it as a mail message to the  
recipi‐
  ents  specified  in the mail headers.  Specifying the 
string off

  (i.e., crond -m off) will disable the sending of mail.

So all I need is a script at /usr/bin/mycron

#!/bin/sh

something
something

So what do I put in the -m arg and in mycron so that this output gets 
appended to /var/spool/mail/MAILTO


?

Thanks

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Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/7/20 7:48 AM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/6/20 11:34 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 07May2020 13:19, Cameron Simpson  wrote:

On 06May2020 20:20, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
I am reading up on esmtp which comes with the base install and 
seemingly no mta needed?


Anyway
https://linux.die.net/man/5/esmtprc

shows how to config for sending an email via esmtp to an mta, but 
not just local delivery...


The bottom of that manual entry describes the "mta" setting, and 
says that esmtp relies on a local MTA for local delivery (addresses 
without an "@"). So you'll need something additional anyway. May as 
well go straight to a proper MTA.


And then, to my chagrin, I reread and see it provides example "mta" 
values like:


   /usr/bin/procmail -d %T

So you may be good there.


Would first have to install procmail for this.

It would be interesting to find a 'simple' python script to grab the 
cron output and 'make' an email and appended to the spool/mail


I am finding things about python and email that is leading me down many 
roads.


First is how does CRON even send emails?  The MAILTO option triggers 
where to send email, but what is the how?  What is CRON using to grab 
its output and stuff that into what emailer program?


My digging is that CRON needs some email server installed, like postfix, 
before it will send emails of its stdout.  But where is this controlled 
so I can change it?


thanks
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Re: user crontab

[George N. White III]

On Thu, 7 May 2020 at 08:49, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:

>
>
> On 5/6/20 11:34 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
> > On 07May2020 13:19, Cameron Simpson  wrote:
> >> On 06May2020 20:20, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
> >>> I am reading up on esmtp which comes with the base install and
> >>> seemingly no mta needed?
> >>>
> >>> Anyway
> >>> https://linux.die.net/man/5/esmtprc
> >>>
> >>> shows how to config for sending an email via esmtp to an mta, but
> >>> not just local delivery...
> >>
> >> The bottom of that manual entry describes the "mta" setting, and says
> >> that esmtp relies on a local MTA for local delivery (addresses
> >> without an "@"). So you'll need something additional anyway. May as
> >> well go straight to a proper MTA.
> >
> > And then, to my chagrin, I reread and see it provides example "mta"
> > values like:
> >
> >/usr/bin/procmail -d %T
> >
> > So you may be good there.
>
> Would first have to install procmail for this.
>
> It would be interesting to find a 'simple' python script to grab the
> cron output and 'make' an email and appended to the spool/mail
>
>
Mail is one of the areas where userd will add complexity.  Having worked
in a large enterprise where mail leaving the intranet was tightly
controlled,
my use of mail was limited to use cases like cron, at, and ad-hoc status
reports from our internal processing systems. It may be time to revisit the
use of mail for these use cases.   Mail is often inconvenient for data
analysis
like % of jobs that failed, reasons for failures (out of disk or memory
space,
program crashed, network down, etc.) and trends in the time stats for jobs,

There are much fancier job scheduling systems that check for resources
before starting jobs, have a dashboard where you can see the status of
jobs (status of finished tasks, stats of running tasks, job queue with
details
to explain why a particular job was delayed, etc.).   One annoyance with
mail being locked down is that uses often miss notifications of problems.
When I retired, linux uses were moving to NUMA workstations where
there are issues around assigning cores to jobs to make best used of
cache and avoid long IPC hops, scheduling of GPU dependent jobs, etc.
With cron, some tasks need to pay attention to resource issues, so you
end up with a lot of ad-hoc hacks (kinda like the situation with init
scripts).

SLURM is claimed to be suitable for NUMA workstations up to the
largest supercomuters.   I have never used it myself, but it is available
in Fedora.

-- 
George N. White III
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Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/6/20 11:34 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 07May2020 13:19, Cameron Simpson  wrote:

On 06May2020 20:20, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
I am reading up on esmtp which comes with the base install and 
seemingly no mta needed?


Anyway
https://linux.die.net/man/5/esmtprc

shows how to config for sending an email via esmtp to an mta, but 
not just local delivery...


The bottom of that manual entry describes the "mta" setting, and says 
that esmtp relies on a local MTA for local delivery (addresses 
without an "@"). So you'll need something additional anyway. May as 
well go straight to a proper MTA.


And then, to my chagrin, I reread and see it provides example "mta" 
values like:


   /usr/bin/procmail -d %T

So you may be good there.


Would first have to install procmail for this.

It would be interesting to find a 'simple' python script to grab the 
cron output and 'make' an email and appended to the spool/mail


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Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/6/20 11:06 PM, Gordon Messmer wrote:

On 5/6/20 3:00 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Do I need something like postfix with a minimal installation to get 
the output from my crontab? 



Technically, no.  If you only want to deliver the messages locally, 
then you only need an MDA, not an MTA.  In fact, you could just create 
/usr/sbin/sendmail as a simple shell script:


#!/bin/sh

(cat; echo) >> $HOME/cron-output


Now I am getting some place.  But I would want it to go to

/var/spool/mail/$USER

Also there is already a /usr/sbin/sendmail on the system.  I am 
concerned that if I replace it with your example, a later update will 
remove it.  I looked at man crontab.5 and did not see a way to specify 
the mail command to run for the cron output.


And finally, how could I test this after setting it up instead of 
waiting for the scheduled time?


thanks

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Re: user crontab

[Cameron Simpson]

On 07May2020 13:19, Cameron Simpson  wrote:

On 06May2020 20:20, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
I am reading up on esmtp which comes with the base install and 
seemingly no mta needed?


Anyway
https://linux.die.net/man/5/esmtprc

shows how to config for sending an email via esmtp to an mta, but 
not just local delivery...


The bottom of that manual entry describes the "mta" setting, and says 
that esmtp relies on a local MTA for local delivery (addresses without 
an "@"). So you'll need something additional anyway. May as well go 
straight to a proper MTA.


And then, to my chagrin, I reread and see it provides example "mta" 
values like:


   /usr/bin/procmail -d %T

So you may be good there.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: user crontab

[Cameron Simpson]

On 06May2020 20:20, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:
I am reading up on esmtp which comes with the base install and 
seemingly no mta needed?


Anyway
https://linux.die.net/man/5/esmtprc

shows how to config for sending an email via esmtp to an mta, but not 
just local delivery...


The bottom of that manual entry describes the "mta" setting, and says 
that esmtp relies on a local MTA for local delivery (addresses without 
an "@"). So you'll need something additional anyway. May as well go 
straight to a proper MTA.


Had you considered a shell script? cron and most local commands should 
be using "sendmail -oi addresses... < message" to deliver. A shell 
script to accept those commands and copy the input to an mbox or Maildir 
file would be pretty simple...


Um, it doesn't solve delivering email to a different (local) user.

I'm sure I've seen a minimal local MTA somewhere, can't remember.  
Actually, I think it might have been an esmtp equivalent for purely 
remote-via-SMTP email. The inverse of what you want.


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: user crontab

[Gordon Messmer]

On 5/6/20 3:00 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Do I need something like postfix with a minimal installation to get 
the output from my crontab? 



Technically, no.  If you only want to deliver the messages locally, then 
you only need an MDA, not an MTA.  In fact, you could just create 
/usr/sbin/sendmail as a simple shell script:


#!/bin/sh

(cat; echo) >> $HOME/cron-output
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Re: user crontab

[Cameron Simpson]

On 06May2020 20:11, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:

Oh I have done a lot with postfix:

http://www.htt-consult.com/Centos7-mailserver.html


Excellent.


On 5/6/20 7:28 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:
With postfix, I put the following settings at the top of 
/etc/postfix/main.cf:


better to use the

postconf -e

command had have the commands put in the proper places.  Or append to 
the end, as postfix reads main.cf in order and last command wins.


I can see that would avoid accidental replication (and loss of my custom 
setting). But personally I like to have the customisations at the top 
where I find them easy to see. Point taken though, postconf -e is more 
robust.



So I can do postfix, and if I have a problem I will ask,


If your experience is as deep as you say your expertise probably exceeds 
mine.



but I wanted just a local mail delivery like maybe esmtp.


Then I'm probably not helpful. I like a full mail system because I want 
to locally queue. (Eg respond to email while offline, have it go out 
later.)


Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/6/20 7:28 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 06May2020 18:15, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:

On 5/6/20 6:08 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

MAILTO=rgm

[...]
Can you point me to some guide for this? Local delivery for viewing 
with mutt is ok.  I don't have to send it to my mail server


sendmail would take me running postfix locally.

Or would sendmail work for local store delivery?  Hmm.


I run postfix locally on my laptops. And I read mail with mutt.



I am reading up on esmtp which comes with the base install and seemingly 
no mta needed?


Anyway

https://linux.die.net/man/5/esmtprc

shows how to config for sending an email via esmtp to an mta, but not 
just local delivery...


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Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

Cameron,

Oh I have done a lot with postfix:

http://www.htt-consult.com/Centos7-mailserver.html

On 5/6/20 7:28 PM, Cameron Simpson wrote:

On 06May2020 18:15, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:

On 5/6/20 6:08 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

MAILTO=rgm

[...]
Can you point me to some guide for this? Local delivery for viewing 
with mutt is ok.  I don't have to send it to my mail server


sendmail would take me running postfix locally.

Or would sendmail work for local store delivery?  Hmm.


I run postfix locally on my laptops. And I read mail with mutt.

Installing postfix is easy, _and_ being a proper mail system it also 
lets your queue and send. All the MAILTO= in crontab relies on is a 
"sendmail" executable, and all UNIX mail systems provide one. So 
installing postfix gets you one.


(So does installing exim or sendmail or qmail etc, but I like 
postfix's configuration.)


With postfix, I put the following settings at the top of 
/etc/postfix/main.cf:


better to use the

postconf -e

command had have the commands put in the proper places.  Or append to 
the end, as postfix reads main.cf in order and last command wins.


I go way back years on the postfix list on things like this.



   # where to send email for off-this-host - I run something special, 
   # but your ISP's mail service or the like should do just fine

   relayhost = 127.0.0.2:1025

   # what domain email from this machine has - I run my own domain
   mydomain = cskk.id.au
   myorigin = cskk.id.au

   # what domains get delivered locally
   mydestination = $mydomain, $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost

   # postfix will accept SMTP - my laptop only listens on localhost
   inet_interfaces = localhost

   # don't relay for anyone else, just the laptop
   mynetworks_style = host
   mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8, [::1]/128

   # support the very cool "basic-address+suffix@" stuff
   recipient_delimiter = +

   # my usual upstream SMTP service gets stupid if you try to be too 
   # enthusiastic

   default_destination_concurrency_limit = 1

The supplied main.cf has almost all the interesting settings set out 
already, with comments. Those I change I comment out in the main file 
and put the changed setting at the top of the file.


Happy to help debug your setup.


So I can do postfix, and if I have a problem I will ask, but I wanted 
just a local mail delivery like maybe esmtp.


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Re: user crontab

[Cameron Simpson]

On 06May2020 18:15, Robert Moskowitz  wrote:

On 5/6/20 6:08 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

MAILTO=rgm

[...]
Can you point me to some guide for this?  Local delivery for viewing 
with mutt is ok.  I don't have to send it to my mail server


sendmail would take me running postfix locally.

Or would sendmail work for local store delivery?  Hmm.


I run postfix locally on my laptops. And I read mail with mutt.

Installing postfix is easy, _and_ being a proper mail system it also 
lets your queue and send. All the MAILTO= in crontab relies on is a 
"sendmail" executable, and all UNIX mail systems provide one. So 
installing postfix gets you one.


(So does installing exim or sendmail or qmail etc, but I like postfix's 
configuration.)


With postfix, I put the following settings at the top of 
/etc/postfix/main.cf:


   # where to send email for off-this-host - I run something special, 
   # but your ISP's mail service or the like should do just fine

   relayhost = 127.0.0.2:1025

   # what domain email from this machine has - I run my own domain
   mydomain = cskk.id.au
   myorigin = cskk.id.au

   # what domains get delivered locally
   mydestination = $mydomain, $myhostname, localhost.$mydomain, localhost

   # postfix will accept SMTP - my laptop only listens on localhost
   inet_interfaces = localhost

   # don't relay for anyone else, just the laptop
   mynetworks_style = host
   mynetworks = 127.0.0.0/8, [::1]/128

   # support the very cool "basic-address+suffix@" stuff
   recipient_delimiter = +

   # my usual upstream SMTP service gets stupid if you try to be too 
   # enthusiastic

   default_destination_concurrency_limit = 1

The supplied main.cf has almost all the interesting settings set out 
already, with comments. Those I change I comment out in the main file 
and put the changed setting at the top of the file.


Happy to help debug your setup.

Cheers,
Cameron Simpson 
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Re: user crontab

[Samuel Sieb]

On 5/6/20 3:15 PM, Robert Moskowitz wrote:
Can you point me to some guide for this?  Local delivery for viewing 
with mutt is ok.  I don't have to send it to my mail server


sendmail would take me running postfix locally.

Or would sendmail work for local store delivery?  Hmm.


You need some program that can handle local delivery.  It appears exim4 
is a fairly minimal one that should work by default.  Or if you want 
really minimal, I found https://git.lekensteyn.nl/femtomail/ .

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Re: user crontab

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-05-06 15:15, Robert Moskowitz wrote:



On 5/6/20 6:08 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

On 2020-05-06 15:00, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

I know I can edit the user crontab with:

crontab -e

and display it with

crontab -l

But where is it?  I don't see anything like ~/.crontab




Hi Robert,

Your crontab files are in

# ls /var/spool/cron
root tom dick harry


The user's crontab will appear as the users name


Ah, thanks.


MAILTO=rgm

Only set a variable.  You have to use a program to
send your mail.  Good luck finding one that supports
OAuth2.

Check out curl and s-nail to send eMail.


Can you point me to some guide for this?  Local delivery for viewing 
with mutt is ok.  I don't have to send it to my mail server


sendmail would take me running postfix locally.

Or would sendmail work for local store delivery?  Hmm.


man curl

But good luck with that.

Here is an example I have kicking around:

$ cat mail.txt | curl -vvv smtps://smtp.zoho.com:465 --mail-from 
"x...@zoho.com" --mail-rcpt "y...@zoho.com" --ssl -u 
x...@zoho.com:xx -k --anyauth

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Re: user crontab

[Robert Moskowitz]

On 5/6/20 6:08 PM, ToddAndMargo via users wrote:

On 2020-05-06 15:00, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

I know I can edit the user crontab with:

crontab -e

and display it with

crontab -l

But where is it?  I don't see anything like ~/.crontab




Hi Robert,

Your crontab files are in

# ls /var/spool/cron
root tom dick harry


The user's crontab will appear as the users name


Ah, thanks.


MAILTO=rgm

Only set a variable.  You have to use a program to
send your mail.  Good luck finding one that supports
OAuth2.

Check out curl and s-nail to send eMail.


Can you point me to some guide for this?  Local delivery for viewing 
with mutt is ok.  I don't have to send it to my mail server


sendmail would take me running postfix locally.

Or would sendmail work for local store delivery?  Hmm.

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Re: user crontab

[Tom Horsley]

On Wed, 6 May 2020 18:00:45 -0400
Robert Moskowitz wrote:

> But where is it? 

/var/spool/cron/user-name

> Do I need something like postfix with a minimal installation to get the 
> output from my crontab?

You need some kind of mail software, postfix might be overkill
(but is certainly easier to configure than sendmail). Not sure
if there is any mail software shipped by default on the live
images any longer.
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Re: user crontab

[ToddAndMargo via users]

On 2020-05-06 15:00, Robert Moskowitz wrote:

I know I can edit the user crontab with:

crontab -e

and display it with

crontab -l

But where is it?  I don't see anything like ~/.crontab




Hi Robert,

Your crontab files are in

# ls /var/spool/cron
root tom dick harry


The user's crontab will appear as the users name


MAILTO=rgm

Only set a variable.  You have to use a program to
send your mail.  Good luck finding one that supports
OAuth2.

Check out curl and s-nail to send eMail.

-T


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