Re: Sun jars revisited
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Re: Sun jars revisited
Specification-Version. Definitely not the VM as a different VM could build the same jar. But for those artifacts that don't have any info in the manifest I tend to make it up/take an educated guess :) - Original Message - From: "Jeff Mutonho" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Maven Users List" Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 1:18 PM Subject: Sun jars revisited What version numbers do you guys use when installing these in your repository?Is this an individual choice...like the wild west :) ?I'm looking at the manifest file for (eg ) jaxrpc.jar and it says : Manifest-Version: 1.0 Ant-Version: Apache Ant 1.5.3 Created-By: 1.4.2_05-b04 (Sun Microsystems Inc.) Name: javax/xml/rpc Specification-Title: JAX-RPC Specification-Version: 1.1 Specification-Vendor: JCP Do you use the vm release version number 1.4.2_... or the Specifiacation-Version 1.1? -- Jeff Mutonho GoogleTalk : ejbengine Skype: ejbengine Registered Linux user number 366042 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: Sun jars revisited
looks like 1.1, although it may be a minor revision like 1.1.1 or 1.1.2 On 6/28/06, Jeff Mutonho <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: What version numbers do you guys use when installing these in your repository?Is this an individual choice...like the wild west :) ?I'm looking at the manifest file for (eg ) jaxrpc.jar and it says : Manifest-Version: 1.0 Ant-Version: Apache Ant 1.5.3 Created-By: 1.4.2_05-b04 (Sun Microsystems Inc.) Name: javax/xml/rpc Specification-Title: JAX-RPC Specification-Version: 1.1 Specification-Vendor: JCP Do you use the vm release version number 1.4.2_... or the Specifiacation-Version 1.1? -- Jeff Mutonho GoogleTalk : ejbengine Skype: ejbengine Registered Linux user number 366042 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- I could give you my word as a Spaniard. No good. I've known too many Spaniards. -- The Princess Bride - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
> A screen scraper would be acceptable. This has been discussed but by the > time we finally determined that I had lost interest. I am an advocate of whatever steps we can take to make the end-user's life easier, but I wanted to make an observation about that idea. I don't believe it will be as easily solved using programmatic tools. For example, I downloaded javamail-1_3_3_01.zip, and it contained: javamail-1.3.3_01/lib/mailapi.jar javamail-1.3.3_01/lib/imap.jar javamail-1.3.3_01/lib/smtp.jar javamail-1.3.3_01/lib/pop3.jar javamail-1.3.3_01/mail.jar Now do we just say every jar inside the outer package is extracted, renamed to $outer_version and installed in the local repo? What about JWSDP, which is distributed in an installshield shar and contains TONS of sub-jars? > Do you know of anything that we can use to easily make screen scapers? That said, to answer your question I've had great success using a combination of jtidy and nekohtml for that very purpose. A few XSLT scripts and the data flies right out. My USD$0.02, -- /v\atthew - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 04:16:09PM +0200, Fabrizio Giustina wrote: > On 10/20/05, Dalibor Topic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 01:25:31PM +0200, Fabrizio Giustina wrote: > > > You will not believe it, but this is also required for standard dtds > > > and xsds (like the web.xml schema)... according to Sun any xml editor > > > which reads the xsd declaration in an xml file and tries to download > > > it for validation without prompting for the license could be > > > considered illegal?!? > > > > That's a new one. Got an URL ? > > I was referring to Eclipse. Just try using eclipse+webtools to open a > web.xml file and you will see the licence agreement popup (with the > full license, I don't know the actual URL on Sun website). I guess that's bug #104086 , #88260 and a bunch of others in the Eclipse bug tracker. cheers, dalibor topic - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 08:32:14AM -0700, Jason van Zyl wrote: > On Thu, 2005-10-20 at 04:10 -0700, Dalibor Topic wrote: > > > On a side note, any idea whether JSR 277 will be developped in an open > > fashion, with an open source RI, like the concurrency JSR was? > > That's up to the spec lead (Stanley Ho), but we are still designing so > no code has been written yet. I'll definitely try to convince Stanley to > open it up though. > thank you. And thanks a lot for your work on Maven, congrats to everyone on the 2.0 release! cheers, dalibor topic - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
On Thu, 2005-10-20 at 13:25 +0200, Fabrizio Giustina wrote: > Some more thoughts... > > The same problem with Sun licenses was recently addressed also by > Eclipse. They implemented a click-through mechanism where the user > must accept the sun license everytime a file is requested from a sun > server (an eclipse window containing a page from the sun website and > an eccept button is displayed). The same could be done for maven. A screen scraper would be acceptable. This has been discussed but by the time we finally determined that I had lost interest. Do you know of anything that we can use to easily make screen scapers? It would be easy enough to prompt users for input for click through licenses. We just need to present the text of the license verbatim. -- jvz. Jason van Zyl jason at maven.org http://maven.apache.org People develop abstractions by generalizing from concrete examples. Every attempt to determine the correct abstraction on paper without actually developing a running system is doomed to failure. No one is that smart. A framework is a resuable design, so you develop it by looking at the things it is supposed to be a design of. The more examples you look at, the more general your framework will be. -- Ralph Johnson & Don Roberts, Patterns for Evolving Frameworks - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
On Thu, 2005-10-20 at 04:10 -0700, Dalibor Topic wrote: > On a side note, any idea whether JSR 277 will be developped in an open > fashion, with an open source RI, like the concurrency JSR was? That's up to the spec lead (Stanley Ho), but we are still designing so no code has been written yet. I'll definitely try to convince Stanley to open it up though. > cheers, > dalibor topic > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > -- jvz. Jason van Zyl jason at maven.org http://maven.apache.org People develop abstractions by generalizing from concrete examples. Every attempt to determine the correct abstraction on paper without actually developing a running system is doomed to failure. No one is that smart. A framework is a resuable design, so you develop it by looking at the things it is supposed to be a design of. The more examples you look at, the more general your framework will be. -- Ralph Johnson & Don Roberts, Patterns for Evolving Frameworks - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
On 10/20/05, Dalibor Topic <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 01:25:31PM +0200, Fabrizio Giustina wrote: > > You will not believe it, but this is also required for standard dtds > > and xsds (like the web.xml schema)... according to Sun any xml editor > > which reads the xsd declaration in an xml file and tries to download > > it for validation without prompting for the license could be > > considered illegal?!? > > That's a new one. Got an URL ? I was referring to Eclipse. Just try using eclipse+webtools to open a web.xml file and you will see the licence agreement popup (with the full license, I don't know the actual URL on Sun website). fabrizio - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
On 10/20/05, Mike Perham <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Is there some reason why people can't use the geronimo-spec jars? I > discovered these a few months back and never looked back. I doubt they > have a spec jar for everything under the sun but importing their j2ee > 1.4 jar should solve 90% of people's problems... they can work for compilation, but try to include the geronimo javamail implementation in your application and you will see lots of NotImplementError thrown... fabrizio - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: sun jars
Is there some reason why people can't use the geronimo-spec jars? I discovered these a few months back and never looked back. I doubt they have a spec jar for everything under the sun but importing their j2ee 1.4 jar should solve 90% of people's problems... mike - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
On Thu, Oct 20, 2005 at 01:25:31PM +0200, Fabrizio Giustina wrote: > Some more thoughts... > > The same problem with Sun licenses was recently addressed also by > Eclipse. They implemented a click-through mechanism where the user > must accept the sun license everytime a file is requested from a sun > server (an eclipse window containing a page from the sun website and > an eccept button is displayed). The same could be done for maven. No, please. Don't. That would screw up automated builds. For such a scheme gone bad, see NetBeans 3 build system, where you have to click through many licenses to get the IDE built. There was a super secret Sun internal way of working around that to make automated builds work, judging by the build scripts. Ugh. > You will not believe it, but this is also required for standard dtds > and xsds (like the web.xml schema)... according to Sun any xml editor > which reads the xsd declaration in an xml file and tries to download > it for validation without prompting for the license could be > considered illegal?!? That's a new one. Got an URL ? > Maybe somebody would came up with an unofficial repository outside > apache containing the sun jars and the above notice, of course > explaining he will immediately remove them if Sun will complain about > such use not contemplated in their not-so-clear license (emh, not a > suggestion, but maybe...) Well, two problems: redistribution without license is copyright violation, and that, if done for commercial purposes, can carry a few years of jail time and a hefty monetary penalty per violation in the USA. Not much fun, really, if you have a family to feed, or just care about your own future. If you don't care about your future, then chances are there a more interesting ways to destroy your life, than by violating other people's copyrights and paying up for it for the rest of your life. ;) Such lawsuits are standard procedure in the p2p field. Usually the $BIGCORPS win, and the people who lose don't like the results they end up with very much. The other problem is that if you don't have a license to redistribute the jars, people getting those jars from you don't have a license to use them, just like buying a Windows XP Pro CD for 3 USD on a flea market in Russia does not actually mean you actually have a license from Microsoft to use that copy of Windows XP Pro. ;) That can matter if say, a company C downloading the jars from you gets into a lawsuit with the $BIGCORP that owns the proprietary jars, and during the discovery process, it turns out that C is using $BIGCORPS's proprietary technology without license. Such a thing never looks good in court. cheers, dalibor topic - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 07:54:49PM -0400, Brill Pappin wrote: > Yah, its a bit of a gray area though... I could write a plugin that used > each of the libs in question in some way and distribute the plugin... the > user would then have it in the environment. > No, you can't. The license demands that your program adds significant and primary functionality to the proprietary code. A plugin does not cut it. Even if you managed to find a way, the BCL demands that you don't distribute additional software intended to replace any component of the proprietary software. The whole point of projects like Geronimo is to replace proprietary software components. They use Maven repos, too ;) The non-free licenses on proprietary software distributed by $BIGCORPS are not there by accident, they are there for a reason, each and every clause in them. The business model of selling non-free Java technology is based upon restricting access, use and redistribution of one's implemntation of said technology in order to get other $BIGCORPS wishing to employ that technology under better terms to pay up, or to pay for the right to implement their own compatible version, which they can license to themselves under better terms. The non-free licenses are made with other $BIGCORPS in mind wishing to sell proprietary software and to bundle other $BIGCORPS proprietary technology along with their proprietary software. So naturally, the licenses will be a bad fit for open source projects. But that's by design, and required for the business model of selling proprietary Java software. Sure, the $BIGCORPS could have different terms for other $BIGCORPS and for open source projects, but why should a $BIGCORP pay cold hard cash to get the same terms as a random open source project? :) See, you may be able to find a technical way to work aroudn the license, but the problem you are trying to solve is a social one, namely 'We make money selling our intellectual property, and you want us to give that money up !?'. Even if you found a way around it, the jars would be pulled, the license would be changed, and that would be the end of that technical solution. And it surely isn't for the lack of people talking to, say, Sun Microsystems [1]. I've watched a lot of people in the last five years in various projects boldly proclaim that they'll go talk to $BIGCRP to get some non-free Java software redistributed under nicer conditions. They have all failed, afaict by the licenses of most of Java technology not having changed much in the last five years. cheers, dalibor topic [1] Not wanting to single them out, other $BIGCORPS with proprietary software windmills have also had their share of folks running against them. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
Some more thoughts... The same problem with Sun licenses was recently addressed also by Eclipse. They implemented a click-through mechanism where the user must accept the sun license everytime a file is requested from a sun server (an eclipse window containing a page from the sun website and an eccept button is displayed). The same could be done for maven. You will not believe it, but this is also required for standard dtds and xsds (like the web.xml schema)... according to Sun any xml editor which reads the xsd declaration in an xml file and tries to download it for validation without prompting for the license could be considered illegal?!? In the other direction, non restributable jars are often included in other distributions. For example Spring includes in his distribution all the javax.* files he uses. So it should be illegal if you consider Spring as a framework you can use to build your own application, while probably it could be legally done if you consider Spring a final product which needs these jars to work. Following the same consideration, maven could be considered as a build tool and in order to work ( = to be able to compile artifacts) it needs the sun jars. I think Sun never complaint about projects redistributing their jars till now. Maybe somebody would came up with an unofficial repository outside apache containing the sun jars and the above notice, of course explaining he will immediately remove them if Sun will complain about such use not contemplated in their not-so-clear license (emh, not a suggestion, but maybe...) fabrizio - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
On Wed, Oct 19, 2005 at 04:52:33PM -0700, Jason van Zyl wrote:
> On Thu, 2005-10-20 at 01:40 +0200, Tomasz Pik wrote:
> > On 19/10/05, Marcel Schutte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Couldn't someone from the maven development team ask Sun for their
> > > explicit permission to publish all these jars? As we say in Holland:
> > > 'Nee heb je, ja kun je krijgen' ('No you've got, yes you can get').
> >
> > Here's link to story:
> > http://maven.apache.org/project/sun-licensing-journey.html
> > In case if it disapear, here's the file in SVN repo:
> > http://tinyurl.com/dxjwy
>
> Yah, I gave up trying to get them to do anything. Too much of a waste of
> time as SUN didn't appear to have any interest in helping.
>
I believe that particular story ended in summer 2005 with Geronimo
writing their own Java Mail implementation from scratch as open
source software and going through the TCK for it. Judging by the news of
Geronimo passing the J2EE certification, it seems to have worked out,
where two years of talking about non-free licenses side-effects have
failed.
That seems to be a more effetive plan in general, than trying to get Sun
Microsytems to relicense their proprietary code base. See Geronimo, and
GNU Classpath projects for examples.
On a side note, any idea whether JSR 277 will be developped in an open
fashion, with an open source RI, like the concurrency JSR was?
cheers,
dalibor topic
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Re: sun jars
Yah, its a bit of a gray area though... I could write a plugin that used each of the libs in question in some way and distribute the plugin... the user would then have it in the environment. Hmm... anyone want to write an email plugin? - Brill Pappin On 10/19/05, Arik Kfir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Yes, you are right. It wouldn't make much sense if you couldn't > redistribute them, eh? ;-) > > Still, it prohibits the maven team from putting them on ibiblio (arrggh!) > > > On 10/19/05, Brill Pappin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Are you sure that the case? Last time I looked you could distribute them > as > > part of your application, but could not distribute them as themselves... > the > > difference being that you as the application developer have agreed to > abide > > by the license. > > > > I may be wrong, but I don't think your restricted to "for your own use". > > > > - Brill Pappin > > > > On 10/18/05, Arik Kfir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > No, that's ok. The license prohibits you from *redistributing* the > > > JAR. As long as its for your own use, you're fine. > > > > > > > > > > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >
Re: sun jars
On Thu, 2005-10-20 at 01:40 +0200, Tomasz Pik wrote:
> On 19/10/05, Marcel Schutte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Couldn't someone from the maven development team ask Sun for their
> > explicit permission to publish all these jars? As we say in Holland:
> > 'Nee heb je, ja kun je krijgen' ('No you've got, yes you can get').
>
> Here's link to story:
> http://maven.apache.org/project/sun-licensing-journey.html
> In case if it disapear, here's the file in SVN repo: http://tinyurl.com/dxjwy
Yah, I gave up trying to get them to do anything. Too much of a waste of
time as SUN didn't appear to have any interest in helping.
> Regards,
> Tomek
>
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>
--
jvz.
Jason van Zyl
jason at maven.org
http://maven.apache.org
First, the taking in of scattered particulars under one Idea,
so that everyone understands what is being talked about ... Second,
the separation of the Idea into parts, by dividing it at the joints,
as nature directs, not breaking any limb in half as a bad carver might.
-- Plato, Phaedrus (Notes on the Synthesis of Form by C. Alexander)
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Re: sun jars
I'm glad to see that its still in process... I'm very sure Sun doesn't want
to block use of the libs by Maven but I can see the bind they are in...
Maybe the Apache group could agree to "mirror" the libs which would mean
they would need to provide an interactive way for the lic to be accepted,
but with mirror rights, a fairly simply system could be set up.
Anyway, I'm looking forward to what comes of this.
- Brill Pappin
On 10/19/05, Tomasz Pik <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> On 19/10/05, Marcel Schutte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Couldn't someone from the maven development team ask Sun for their
> > explicit permission to publish all these jars? As we say in Holland:
> > 'Nee heb je, ja kun je krijgen' ('No you've got, yes you can get').
>
> Here's link to story:
> http://maven.apache.org/project/sun-licensing-journey.html
> In case if it disapear, here's the file in SVN repo:
> http://tinyurl.com/dxjwy
>
> Regards,
> Tomek
>
> -
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>
Re: sun jars
On 19/10/05, Marcel Schutte <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Couldn't someone from the maven development team ask Sun for their
> explicit permission to publish all these jars? As we say in Holland:
> 'Nee heb je, ja kun je krijgen' ('No you've got, yes you can get').
Here's link to story: http://maven.apache.org/project/sun-licensing-journey.html
In case if it disapear, here's the file in SVN repo: http://tinyurl.com/dxjwy
Regards,
Tomek
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Re: sun jars
Couldn't someone from the maven development team ask Sun for their
explicit permission to publish all these jars? As we say in Holland:
'Nee heb je, ja kun je krijgen' ('No you've got, yes you can get').
Marcel
--- Arik Kfir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Yes, you are right. It wouldn't make much sense if you couldn't
> redistribute them, eh? ;-)
>
> Still, it prohibits the maven team from putting them on ibiblio
> (arrggh!)
>
>
> On 10/19/05, Brill Pappin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Are you sure that the case? Last time I looked you could distribute
> them as
> > part of your application, but could not distribute them as
> themselves... the
> > difference being that you as the application developer have agreed
> to abide
> > by the license.
> >
> > I may be wrong, but I don't think your restricted to "for your own
> use".
> >
> > - Brill Pappin
> >
> > On 10/18/05, Arik Kfir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > >
> > > No, that's ok. The license prohibits you from *redistributing*
> the
> > > JAR. As long as its for your own use, you're fine.
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
>
> -
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>
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Re: sun jars
Yes, you are right. It wouldn't make much sense if you couldn't redistribute them, eh? ;-) Still, it prohibits the maven team from putting them on ibiblio (arrggh!) On 10/19/05, Brill Pappin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Are you sure that the case? Last time I looked you could distribute them as > part of your application, but could not distribute them as themselves... the > difference being that you as the application developer have agreed to abide > by the license. > > I may be wrong, but I don't think your restricted to "for your own use". > > - Brill Pappin > > On 10/18/05, Arik Kfir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > No, that's ok. The license prohibits you from *redistributing* the > > JAR. As long as its for your own use, you're fine. > > > > > > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
Are you sure that the case? Last time I looked you could distribute them as part of your application, but could not distribute them as themselves... the difference being that you as the application developer have agreed to abide by the license. I may be wrong, but I don't think your restricted to "for your own use". - Brill Pappin On 10/18/05, Arik Kfir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > No, that's ok. The license prohibits you from *redistributing* the > JAR. As long as its for your own use, you're fine. > > >
Re: sun jars
On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 03:05:06PM +0200, Nicolas De Loof wrote: > > I think the only legal way to build a download script would be to use a > console mode browser to follow the $BIGCORP download process. But I > don't think sun download process may be clean viewed on a console mode > browser. I don't think a download script would be illegal, actually. But using a download script may not result in a valid license for the downloaded jar file, due to the questionable formation of a contract in that case[1]. YMMV in your court of choice, and in general the $BIGCORP won't like a situation where their potential for excercising their restrictions is unclear wrt to your use of their non-free work. cheers, dalibor topic [1] Non-free licenses in general resemble contracts, and contracts require some form of acceptance to occur in order to be formed between two parties. In addition, without a valid contract with $BIGCORP, a download and use of their non-free works, puts you in a similar position wrt to legality of your use as grabbing random OS X vmware images of bittorrent: not really a 'best practice' for a business. :) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
From: "Arik Kfir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I'd suggest not putting them in your local repo by hand, but use: m2 install:install-file -Dfile= -DgroupId= -DartifactId= -Dversion= -Dpackaging= (all in one line of course) A very simple GUI that lets you navigate to the location of and pick it, then type in the rest and click a button. Is it possible with a plugin? (I don't do Swing...) Now someone will tell me it's already done. :) -- Wendy - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
I think the only legal way to build a download script would be to use a console mode browser to follow the $BIGCORP download process. But I don't think sun download process may be clean viewed on a console mode browser. Another solution maybe to patch a graphical browser like hotjava to lanch it for sun download URL, get callback on jar download and add it to repository... but it perhaps a little bit complicated. Nico. Dalibor Topic a écrit : On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 02:15:53PM +0200, Arik Kfir wrote: No, that's ok. The license prohibits you from *redistributing* the JAR. As long as its for your own use, you're fine. Depends. In general, people writing non-free licenses make them click-wrap so that they can enforce the restrictions on use they came up with in court. Bypassing the click-wrap mechanisms may or may not result in a valid license for you, and is in general not seen as a good thing by the folks licensing the non-free code in the first place, since they'd have a harder time in court showing the consent agreement to the license, if they had to go there to enforce their restrictions on your use of their non-free work. For example, if $BIGCORP offers X.jar under a non-free click-wrap license, and your script downloads it and does all the clicking through, and then $BIGCORP finds out that you worked around their licensing arrangements, $BIGCORP can take you to court on the basis that you never agreed to their license, so you have no right to use their work (it's non-free by the explicit wish of $BIGCORP). Just because you can obtain someone's non-free work somehow (script, napster, bittorrent), does not mean the $BIGCORP will authorise its use without having established some form of a contract with you (rather than granting you a free for all license). In general, a $BIGCORP peddling in non-free software wants to be able to haul your ass into court if they see it fit, and they don't like the prospect of having to deal with 'uh, but the $INSTALLER script downloaded it all automatically, how am I supposed to know its license, which I never actually agreed to anyway?' claims in a court setting, if they desire to protect their valuable cash-cow restrictions on use/modifications/redistribution in court. Who should $BIGCORP sue then for damages if it turns out it can't enforce its license against some hypothetical 'evil-doers'? Should $BIGCORP sue the script developers?[1] :) cheers, dalibor topic [1] A lot of this has already played out in the p2p field anyway, where corporations have sued end users, distributors, distribution channels, etc, to protect and enforce their restrictions on use. See MGM vs. Grokster for an example of suing the script developers instead of the copyright violators and pushing it all the way through the supreme court of USA. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] This message contains information that may be privileged or confidential and is the property of the Capgemini Group. It is intended only for the person to whom it is addressed. If you are not the intended recipient, you are not authorized to read, print, retain, copy, disseminate, distribute, or use this message or any part thereof. If you receive this message in error, please notify the sender immediately and delete all copies of this message. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 02:15:53PM +0200, Arik Kfir wrote: > No, that's ok. The license prohibits you from *redistributing* the > JAR. As long as its for your own use, you're fine. Depends. In general, people writing non-free licenses make them click-wrap so that they can enforce the restrictions on use they came up with in court. Bypassing the click-wrap mechanisms may or may not result in a valid license for you, and is in general not seen as a good thing by the folks licensing the non-free code in the first place, since they'd have a harder time in court showing the consent agreement to the license, if they had to go there to enforce their restrictions on your use of their non-free work. For example, if $BIGCORP offers X.jar under a non-free click-wrap license, and your script downloads it and does all the clicking through, and then $BIGCORP finds out that you worked around their licensing arrangements, $BIGCORP can take you to court on the basis that you never agreed to their license, so you have no right to use their work (it's non-free by the explicit wish of $BIGCORP). Just because you can obtain someone's non-free work somehow (script, napster, bittorrent), does not mean the $BIGCORP will authorise its use without having established some form of a contract with you (rather than granting you a free for all license). In general, a $BIGCORP peddling in non-free software wants to be able to haul your ass into court if they see it fit, and they don't like the prospect of having to deal with 'uh, but the $INSTALLER script downloaded it all automatically, how am I supposed to know its license, which I never actually agreed to anyway?' claims in a court setting, if they desire to protect their valuable cash-cow restrictions on use/modifications/redistribution in court. Who should $BIGCORP sue then for damages if it turns out it can't enforce its license against some hypothetical 'evil-doers'? Should $BIGCORP sue the script developers?[1] :) cheers, dalibor topic [1] A lot of this has already played out in the p2p field anyway, where corporations have sued end users, distributors, distribution channels, etc, to protect and enforce their restrictions on use. See MGM vs. Grokster for an example of suing the script developers instead of the copyright violators and pushing it all the way through the supreme court of USA. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: sun jars
> -Original Message- > From: Arik Kfir [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ==== > > No, that's ok. The license prohibits you from *redistributing* the > JAR. As long as its for your own use, you're fine. > Ok let's get right to the point. What about redistributing the download script? > On 10/18/05, Pilgrim, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > -Original Message- > > > From: Lukas Theussl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ==== > > > > > > > > > You have to download these jars yourself (due to license > > > issues) and put > > > them in your local repo by hand: > > > > > > http://maven.apache.org/reference/standard-sun-jar-names.html > > > > > > > Does the licence restrict from writing a script that > > you manually run yourself. Firstly, it does the download > > and then secondly, install the jars in your local maven repository. > > > > > > > > Xavier Toth wrote: > > > > I'm sorry if this has already been addressed but my > > > dependencies for things > > > > like activation and mail fail to download the jars because > > > they aren't in > > > > the repositiory. Where are others getting these type of jars? > > > > > > ==== ==== -- Peter Pilgrim :: J2EE Software Development Operations/IT - Credit Suisse First Boston, Floor 15, 5 Canada Square, London E14 4QJ, United Kingdom Tel: +44-(0)207-883-4497 == Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://www.csfb.com/legal_terms/disclaimer_external_email.shtml == - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
No, that's ok. The license prohibits you from *redistributing* the JAR. As long as its for your own use, you're fine. On 10/18/05, Pilgrim, Peter <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > -Original Message- > > From: Lukas Theussl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ==== > > > > > > You have to download these jars yourself (due to license > > issues) and put > > them in your local repo by hand: > > > > http://maven.apache.org/reference/standard-sun-jar-names.html > > > > Does the licence restrict from writing a script that > you manually run yourself. Firstly, it does the download > and then secondly, install the jars in your local maven repository. > > > > > Xavier Toth wrote: > > > I'm sorry if this has already been addressed but my > > dependencies for things > > > like activation and mail fail to download the jars because > > they aren't in > > > the repositiory. Where are others getting these type of jars? > > > > ==== > > -- > Peter Pilgrim :: J2EE Software Development > Operations/IT - Credit Suisse First Boston, > Floor 15, 5 Canada Square, London E14 4QJ, United Kingdom > Tel: +44-(0)207-883-4497 > > > > == > Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic > communications disclaimer: > > http://www.csfb.com/legal_terms/disclaimer_external_email.shtml > > == > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: sun jars
> -Original Message- > From: Lukas Theussl [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ==== > > > You have to download these jars yourself (due to license > issues) and put > them in your local repo by hand: > > http://maven.apache.org/reference/standard-sun-jar-names.html > Does the licence restrict from writing a script that you manually run yourself. Firstly, it does the download and then secondly, install the jars in your local maven repository. > > Xavier Toth wrote: > > I'm sorry if this has already been addressed but my > dependencies for things > > like activation and mail fail to download the jars because > they aren't in > > the repositiory. Where are others getting these type of jars? > > ==== -- Peter Pilgrim :: J2EE Software Development Operations/IT - Credit Suisse First Boston, Floor 15, 5 Canada Square, London E14 4QJ, United Kingdom Tel: +44-(0)207-883-4497 == Please access the attached hyperlink for an important electronic communications disclaimer: http://www.csfb.com/legal_terms/disclaimer_external_email.shtml == - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
Oh...no, I don't think so ;-) On 10/18/05, Lukas Theussl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I was thinking in terms of m1. :) > > Is there an equivalent of install:install-file in m1? > > -Lukas > > > Arik Kfir wrote: > > I'd suggest not putting them in your local repo by hand, but use: > > > > m2 install:install-file > > -Dfile= > > -DgroupId= > > -DartifactId= > > -Dversion= > > -Dpackaging= > > > > (all in one line of course) > > > > Where: the path to the file to load > > the group that the file should be registered under > > the artifact name for the file > > the version of the file > > the packaging of the file e.g. jar > > > > See http://maven.apache.org/maven2/general.html#importing-jars for info. > > > > On 10/18/05, Lukas Theussl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > >>You have to download these jars yourself (due to license issues) and put > >>them in your local repo by hand: > >> > >>http://maven.apache.org/reference/standard-sun-jar-names.html > >> > >>-Lukas > >> > >> > >>Xavier Toth wrote: > >> > >>>I'm sorry if this has already been addressed but my dependencies for things > >>>like activation and mail fail to download the jars because they aren't in > >>>the repositiory. Where are others getting these type of jars? > >>> > >> > >>- > >>To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >>For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >> > >> > > > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
I was thinking in terms of m1. :) Is there an equivalent of install:install-file in m1? -Lukas Arik Kfir wrote: I'd suggest not putting them in your local repo by hand, but use: m2 install:install-file -Dfile= -DgroupId= -DartifactId= -Dversion= -Dpackaging= (all in one line of course) Where: the path to the file to load the group that the file should be registered under the artifact name for the file the version of the file the packaging of the file e.g. jar See http://maven.apache.org/maven2/general.html#importing-jars for info. On 10/18/05, Lukas Theussl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: You have to download these jars yourself (due to license issues) and put them in your local repo by hand: http://maven.apache.org/reference/standard-sun-jar-names.html -Lukas Xavier Toth wrote: I'm sorry if this has already been addressed but my dependencies for things like activation and mail fail to download the jars because they aren't in the repositiory. Where are others getting these type of jars? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
I'd suggest not putting them in your local repo by hand, but use: m2 install:install-file -Dfile= -DgroupId= -DartifactId= -Dversion= -Dpackaging= (all in one line of course) Where: the path to the file to load the group that the file should be registered under the artifact name for the file the version of the file the packaging of the file e.g. jar See http://maven.apache.org/maven2/general.html#importing-jars for info. On 10/18/05, Lukas Theussl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You have to download these jars yourself (due to license issues) and put > them in your local repo by hand: > > http://maven.apache.org/reference/standard-sun-jar-names.html > > -Lukas > > > Xavier Toth wrote: > > I'm sorry if this has already been addressed but my dependencies for things > > like activation and mail fail to download the jars because they aren't in > > the repositiory. Where are others getting these type of jars? > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
You have to download these jars yourself (due to license issues) and put them in your local repo by hand: http://maven.apache.org/reference/standard-sun-jar-names.html -Lukas Xavier Toth wrote: I'm sorry if this has already been addressed but my dependencies for things like activation and mail fail to download the jars because they aren't in the repositiory. Where are others getting these type of jars? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
Due to licensing issues you have to copy these libs to your local repo (or an internal repo) manually. For m1 this page defined suggests the groupIds / artifactIds to use: http://maven.apache.org/reference/standard-sun-jar-names.html I think the suggested names stay the same with m2 though the actual location the artifacts are looked up in your local/internal repo changed somehow.. e.g. j2ee-1.4.jar: m1-repo: ~/.maven/repository/javax.j2ee/jars/j2ee-1.4.jar m2-repo: ~/.m2/repository/javax/j2ee/j2ee/1.4/j2ee-1.4.jar You can get the jars either from SUN or from a clean-room spec implementation (e.g. http://www.ibiblio.org/maven2/geronimo-spec) available thru the maven repo (you'll have to rename the jar-file). Regards, mika Xavier Toth wrote: I'm sorry if this has already been addressed but my dependencies for things like activation and mail fail to download the jars because they aren't in the repositiory. Where are others getting these type of jars? - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
Hi Xavier, These JARs are not in the repository because they can't be redistributed. You need to download them from Sun's site (at http://java.sun.com) and install them manually in your local repository. See http://maven.apache.org/maven2/general.html#importing-jars for manually installing JARs in your local repository. See http://maven.apache.org/reference/standard-sun-jar-names.html for more information regarding the appropriate group and artifact ID to use when installing them in your local repo. Cheers, Arik. On 10/17/05, Xavier Toth <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm sorry if this has already been addressed but my dependencies for things > like activation and mail fail to download the jars because they aren't in > the repositiory. Where are others getting these type of jars? > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: sun jars
Nathan: I've been looking into this problem in relation to component deployment requirements related to the Avalon Merlin project [1]. Merlin provides support for composite components (i.e. coponents that are created dynamically based on service provided by other components). The James mail server is such as example - it is a composite component it pulls in Avalon Cornersone components as part of its implementation strategy. However, in order to deploy James you need the sun activation and mail jar files. Traditionally James has packaged and deployed thair product using container specific solutions - however, recent developments over in Avalon are providing solutions that are totally linked to the Maven repository model. For example, if you have the Merlin prouduct installed [2], you can do the following: $ merlin -install http://dpml.net/james/james-server.bar This command basically populates your local repository with the james application including the necessary bundled Sun jar files. The Merlin repository uses the same structure as the Maven repository so you can do thing like: $merlin -install -repository %MAVEN_HOME%\repository We already have a Maven plugin that provides support for component deployment based on the content of the Maven repo and it would not be too hard to update this to include the install capabilities relative to project dependencies. Stephen. [1] http://avalon.apache.org/sandbox/merlin [2] http://dpml.net/merlin/distributions Nathan Coast wrote: Hi, Just wondering if there had been any movement on the licensing of sun jars recently? http://maven.apache.org/sun-licensing-journey.html http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]/msg00641.html Until such a time as these jars become available via maven (if they ever do) what is the best approach to getting round dependencies? Up until now I've been placing some jar that contains dependencies into the repo and creating a dependency to it. E.g. j2ee.jar, weblogic.jar. Whilst this works, it seems a bit ham-fisted, once you start sharing the project with other people - unless they're sharing the same local repo. cheers Nathan - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- Stephen J. McConnell mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] - To unsubscribe, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] For additional commands, e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
