[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Strahil Nikolov via Users]

В 14:41 + на 23.01.2021 (сб), Florian Schmid via Users написа:
> Hi Strahil,
> 
> thank you very much for the information.
> 
> Now the question is, will oVirt stay 100 % compatible to RH?
It should, but it it might have issues like we got with ovirt 4.4
(cluster compatibility 4.5) and CentOS 8.3

> As I understood it, is that oVirt will be developed for CentOS Stream
> and will be tested against it.
> RH doesn't have the same application versions than CentOS Stream,
> because Stream is newer and a way ahead RH, so is oVirt then.
I would rather pick RHEL 8 than Stream. It has so much troubles right
now and I doubt that it will be as stable as I wish. I just want to 
update, reboot and forget about the nodes.

> I think, we will have then the same problems with oVirt and CentOS
> had, where RH 8.3 was already released and CentOS 8.3 not. Now it is
> vice versa. Stream is first and RH later.
> BR Florian
Most probably. But I think upgrading from RHEL 8 to CentOS Stream 8
will be easy in case something goes bad.

Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Florian Schmid via Users]

Hi Strahil, 

thank you very much for the information. 

Now the question is, will oVirt stay 100 % compatible to RH? 

As I understood it, is that oVirt will be developed for CentOS Stream and will 
be tested against it. 
RH doesn't have the same application versions than CentOS Stream, because 
Stream is newer and a way ahead RH, so is oVirt then. 

I think, we will have then the same problems with oVirt and CentOS had, where 
RH 8.3 was already released and CentOS 8.3 not. Now it is vice versa. Stream is 
first and RH later. 


BR Florian 


Von: "users"  
An: "users"  
Gesendet: Samstag, 23. Januar 2021 14:58:44 
Betreff: [ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead 

For anyone interested , 

RH are extending the developer subscription for production use of up to 16 
systems [1]. 
For me , it's completely enough to run my oVirt nodes on EL 8. 


[ 
https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/new-year-new-red-hat-enterprise-linux-programs-easier-ways-access-rhel
 | 
https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/new-year-new-red-hat-enterprise-linux-programs-easier-ways-access-rhel
 ] 

Best Regards, 
Strahil Nikolov 

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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Strahil Nikolov via Users]

For anyone interested ,

RH are extending the developer subscription for production use of up to 16 
systems [1].
For me , it's completely enough to run my oVirt nodes on EL 8.


https://www.redhat.com/en/blog/new-year-new-red-hat-enterprise-linux-programs-easier-ways-access-rhel

Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Simon Coter]

Hi Florian,

> On Dec 26, 2020, at 6:46 PM, Florian Schmid  wrote:
> 
> Hello Simon,
> 
> would you be so kind and explain me, why OLVM is so far behind RHV or oVirt?

we’re working on our own libvirt/qemu releases for OL8 (actually available 
under dev channels) to then introduce OLVM 4.4.

> 
> It would be also great to know, if you backport fixes from oVirt 4.3.7+ back 
> to OLVM 4.3.6?

We have errata-releases and bugs fixed into that.
BTW, yep we did some backport(s) and we also added one fix we pushed to oVirt 
4.4 related to storage management (I do not remember now the details).

> I have seen, that there are some newer packages on your repo server for 
> 4.3.6, which seem newer than the oVirt release, but I haven't find any 
> release notes of your versions.

You can see them on our Errata website:

https://linux.oracle.com/ords/f?p=105:21RP::

Simon

> 
> Thank you very much for your answers.
> BR Florian
> 
> Von: "Simon Coter" mailto:simon.co...@oracle.com>>
> An: "Strahil Nikolov" mailto:hunter86...@yahoo.com>>
> CC: "marcel d'heureuse" mailto:mar...@deheureu.se>>, 
> "James Loker-Steele" mailto:jameslo...@me.com>>, "Diggy 
> Mc" mailto:d...@bornfree.org>>, "users"  <mailto:users@ovirt.org>>
> Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Dezember 2020 23:14:41
> Betreff: [ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead
> 
> 
> 
> On Dec 25, 2020, at 10:50 PM, Strahil Nikolov via Users  <mailto:users@ovirt.org>> wrote:
> 
> В 22:32 +0100 на 25.12.2020 (пт), marcel d'heureuse написа:
> I think oracle is not a solution. if they do the same with oracle Linux like 
> java one year ago. that you can't use it in company's it will be a wast of 
> time to move to oracle. 
> 
> or am I wrong?
> 
> br
> marcel
> I admit that Oracle's reputation is not best ... but I guess if they do take 
> such approach - we can always migrate to Springade/Rocky Linux/Lenix ..
> After all , OLVM is new tech for Oracle and they want more users to start 
> using it (and later switch to paid subscription). 
> 
> I think that it's worth testing.
> 
> @Simon,
> 
> do you have any idea if there will be any issues migrating from CentOS 7 + 
> oVirt 4.3.10 to OEL 8 + OLVM (once the 4.4 is available ) ?
> 
> I do not expect particular issues; for OL we’re also working to the pure OL7 
> to OL8 upgrade process.
> BTW, I tested more times the moving from CentOS 7 to OL7 / oVirt to OLVM on 
> 4.3 release.
> 
> I saw 
> https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/getting-started-with-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager
>  
> <https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/getting-started-with-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager>
>  , but it's a little bit outdated and is about OLVM 4.2 + OEL 7 .
> 
> We’re now on OLVM 4.3.6+ 
> (https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/announcing-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager-43
>  
> <https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/announcing-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager-43>)
>  and working on latest maintenance release (on 4.3.10+).
> The plan is to then work on OLVM 4.4 with OL8.
> 
> Simon
> 
> 
> 
> Happy Hollidays! 
> 
> Best Regards,
> Strahil Nikolov
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Florian Schmid via Users]

Hello Simon, 

would you be so kind and explain me, why OLVM is so far behind RHV or oVirt? 

It would be also great to know, if you backport fixes from oVirt 4.3.7+ back to 
OLVM 4.3.6? I have seen, that there are some newer packages on your repo server 
for 4.3.6, which seem newer than the oVirt release, but I haven't find any 
release notes of your versions. 

Thank you very much for your answers. 
BR Florian 


Von: "Simon Coter"  
An: "Strahil Nikolov"  
CC: "marcel d'heureuse" , "James Loker-Steele" 
, "Diggy Mc" , "users"  
Gesendet: Freitag, 25. Dezember 2020 23:14:41 
Betreff: [ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead 






On Dec 25, 2020, at 10:50 PM, Strahil Nikolov via Users < [ 
mailto:users@ovirt.org | users@ovirt.org ] > wrote: 

В 22:32 +0100 на 25.12.2020 (пт), marcel d'heureuse написа: 

BQ_BEGIN
I think oracle is not a solution. if they do the same with oracle Linux like 
java one year ago. that you can't use it in company's it will be a wast of time 
to move to oracle. 

or am I wrong? 

br 
marcel 



I admit that Oracle's reputation is not best ... but I guess if they do take 
such approach - we can always migrate to Springade/Rocky Linux/Lenix .. 
After all , OLVM is new tech for Oracle and they want more users to start using 
it (and later switch to paid subscription). 

I think that it's worth testing. 

@Simon, 

do you have any idea if there will be any issues migrating from CentOS 7 + 
oVirt 4.3.10 to OEL 8 + OLVM (once the 4.4 is available ) ? 

BQ_END


I do not expect particular issues; for OL we’re also working to the pure OL7 to 
OL8 upgrade process. 
BTW, I tested more times the moving from CentOS 7 to OL7 / oVirt to OLVM on 4.3 
release. 


BQ_BEGIN

I saw [ 
https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/getting-started-with-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager
 | 
https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/getting-started-with-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager
 ] , but it's a little bit outdated and is about OLVM 4.2 + OEL 7 . 

BQ_END


We’re now on OLVM 4.3.6+ ( [ 
https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/announcing-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager-43
 | 
https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/announcing-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager-43
 ] ) and working on latest maintenance release (on 4.3.10+). 
The plan is to then work on OLVM 4.4 with OL8. 

Simon 


BQ_BEGIN



Happy Hollidays! 

Best Regards, 
Strahil Nikolov 
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 ] 

BQ_END



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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Simon Coter]

> On Dec 25, 2020, at 10:50 PM, Strahil Nikolov via Users  
> wrote:
> 
> В 22:32 +0100 на 25.12.2020 (пт), marcel d'heureuse написа:
>> I think oracle is not a solution. if they do the same with oracle Linux like 
>> java one year ago. that you can't use it in company's it will be a wast of 
>> time to move to oracle. 
>> 
>> or am I wrong?
>> 
>> br
>> marcel
> I admit that Oracle's reputation is not best ... but I guess if they do take 
> such approach - we can always migrate to Springade/Rocky Linux/Lenix ..
> After all , OLVM is new tech for Oracle and they want more users to start 
> using it (and later switch to paid subscription).
> 
> I think that it's worth testing.
> 
> @Simon,
> 
> do you have any idea if there will be any issues migrating from CentOS 7 + 
> oVirt 4.3.10 to OEL 8 + OLVM (once the 4.4 is available ) ?

I do not expect particular issues; for OL we’re also working to the pure OL7 to 
OL8 upgrade process.
BTW, I tested more times the moving from CentOS 7 to OL7 / oVirt to OLVM on 4.3 
release.

> I saw 
> https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/getting-started-with-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager
>  
> 
>  , but it's a little bit outdated and is about OLVM 4.2 + OEL 7 .

We’re now on OLVM 4.3.6+ 
(https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/announcing-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager-43
 
)
 and working on latest maintenance release (on 4.3.10+).
The plan is to then work on OLVM 4.4 with OL8.

Simon

> 
> 
> Happy Hollidays!
> 
> Best Regards,
> Strahil Nikolov
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Simon Coter]

> On Dec 25, 2020, at 11:27 PM, Strahil Nikolov  wrote:
> 
> 
>> I do not expect particular issues; for OL we’re also working to the pure OL7 
>> to OL8 upgrade process.
>> BTW, I tested more times the moving from CentOS 7 to OL7 / oVirt to OLVM on 
>> 4.3 release.
>> 
>>> I saw 
>>> https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/getting-started-with-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager
>>>  
>>> 
>>>  , but it's a little bit outdated and is about OLVM 4.2 + OEL 7 .
>> 
>> We’re now on OLVM 4.3.6+ 
>> (https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/announcing-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager-43
>>  
>> )
>>  and working on latest maintenance release (on 4.3.10+).
>> The plan is to then work on OLVM 4.4 with OL8.
> 
> Simon,
> 
> How can I track the progress ? It seems that I need to migrate in 2 steps :
> 1) CentOS7/oVIrt 4.3.10 to OEL7 + OLVM 4.3.10
> 2) At a later stage to OEL8 + OLVM 4.4.+

based on the fact that CentOS7 is going to be maintained (and not closed in 
December 2021) I would not force any moving to OLVM 4.3.10 (when 
available)/OL7, unless you are interested on support.
Our plan, for sure, is to get OLVM 4.4 GA in the 2021 and, so, at that point 
you could evaluate the moving.

> 
> I know that there is a centos to OEL script for the migration , but as oVirt 
> (and most probably OLVM) requires some external repos - it will take some 
> preparation.

yep, the script is on GitHub (if someone is interested to also leave feedback): 
https://github.com/oracle/centos2ol  
for oVirt we’ve dedicated channels for OL7, you’re right.

> Do you think that it's more reasonable to just reinstall one of the nodes to 
> OEL 8 and then deploy the HE from backup (once 4.4 is available) ?

This one could be for sure a valid plan.

> Then migrating the rest should be easier.

Right.

Simon

> 
> Best Regards,
> Strahil Nikolov

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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Simon Coter]

> On Dec 25, 2020, at 11:26 PM, Diggy Mc  wrote:
> 
> Simon,
> Do you have a rough guess as to when OLVM 4.4 on OL8 will be released?  I'm 
> committed to OL8, but need to decide soon if I should go with oVirt 4.4 on 
> OL8 or wait for OLVM 4.4.

I do not have a date that can be shared actually but I would suggest you to 
start now with oVirt; a possible migration will be always possible if needed.
Thanks

Simon

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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Simon Coter]

No,

OLVM is free to download and free to update.

Simon

> On Dec 25, 2020, at 10:13 PM, Strahil Nikolov via Users  
> wrote:
> 
> В 19:35 + на 25.12.2020 (пт), James Loker-Steele via Users написа:
>> Yes.
>> We use OEL and have setup oracles branded ovirt as well as test ovirt
>> on oracle and it works a treat.
> Hey James,
> 
> is Oracle 's version of oVirt paid ?
> 
> Best Regards,
> Strahil Nikolov
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Strahil Nikolov via Users]

> I do not expect particular issues; for OL we’re also working to the
> pure OL7 to OL8 upgrade process.
> BTW, I tested more times the moving from CentOS 7 to OL7 / oVirt to
> OLVM on 4.3 release.
> 
> > I saw 
> > https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/getting-started-with-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager
> >  , but it's a little bit outdated and is about OLVM 4.2 + OEL 7 .
> 
> We’re now on OLVM 4.3.6+ (
> https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/announcing-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager-43
> ) and working on latest maintenance release (on 4.3.10+).
> The plan is to then work on OLVM 4.4 with OL8.

Simon, 

How can I track the progress ? It seems that I need to migrate in 2
steps :
1) CentOS7/oVIrt 4.3.10 to OEL7 + OLVM 4.3.10
2) At a later stage to OEL8 + OLVM 4.4.+

I know that there is a centos to OEL script for the migration , but as
oVirt (and most probably OLVM) requires some external repos - it will
take some preparation.
Do you think that it's more reasonable to just reinstall one of the
nodes to OEL 8 and then deploy the HE from backup (once 4.4 is
available) ?
Then migrating the rest should be easier.

Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Diggy Mc]

Simon,
Do you have a rough guess as to when OLVM 4.4 on OL8 will be released?  I'm 
committed to OL8, but need to decide soon if I should go with oVirt 4.4 on OL8 
or wait for OLVM 4.4.
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[James Loker-Steele via Users]

I believe the support is the same as red hat and paid is available but oel and 
the ovirt (olvm) is free as has been mentioned.
It’s currently on ovirt 4.3.6 and there is a bug or 2 with that as mentioned in 
the comments on the press release 
https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/announcing-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager
 They have not updated it to the later versions yet but are working on it. It 
is claimed to be reworked slightly for better handling of the database vms. 
Though that’s not confirmed.

I did have an issue with the self hosted engine vm deployment and as such it 
didn’t deploy. One of the errors was that it claimed the host could not handle 
virtualisation or something. Which was not true as running ovirt I was able to 
install the self hosted engine vm fine.
Installation guides here 
https://docs.oracle.com/en/virtualization/oracle-linux-virtualization-manager/#:~:text=Oracle%20Linux%20Virtualization%20Manager%20is%20a%20server%20virtualization,environment%20with%20enterprise-grade%20performance%20and%20support%20from%20Oracle.
Are useful though for setup and it’s all free.

Kind regards

James

Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Dec 2020, at 21:51, Strahil Nikolov  wrote:
> 
> В 22:32 +0100 на 25.12.2020 (пт), marcel d'heureuse написа:
>> I think oracle is not a solution. if they do the same with oracle Linux like 
>> java one year ago. that you can't use it in company's it will be a wast of 
>> time to move to oracle. 
>> 
>> or am I wrong?
>> 
>> br
>> marcel
> I admit that Oracle's reputation is not best ... but I guess if they do take 
> such approach - we can always migrate to Springade/Rocky Linux/Lenix ..
> After all , OLVM is new tech for Oracle and they want more users to start 
> using it (and later switch to paid subscription).
> 
> I think that it's worth testing.
> 
> @Simon,
> 
> do you have any idea if there will be any issues migrating from CentOS 7 + 
> oVirt 4.3.10 to OEL 8 + OLVM (once the 4.4 is available ) ?
> I saw 
> https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/getting-started-with-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager
>  , but it's a little bit outdated and is about OLVM 4.2 + OEL 7 .
> 
> 
> Happy Hollidays!
> 
> Best Regards,
> Strahil Nikolov
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Strahil Nikolov via Users]

В 22:32 +0100 на 25.12.2020 (пт), marcel d'heureuse написа:
> I think oracle is not a solution. if they do the same with oracle
> Linux like java one year ago. that you can't use it in company's it
> will be a wast of time to move to oracle. 
> 
> or am I wrong?
> 
> br
> marcel
I admit that Oracle's reputation is not best ... but I guess if they do
take such approach - we can always migrate to Springade/Rocky
Linux/Lenix ..
After all , OLVM is new tech for Oracle and they want more users to
start using it (and later switch to paid subscription). 

I think that it's worth testing.

@Simon,

do you have any idea if there will be any issues migrating from CentOS
7 + oVirt 4.3.10 to OEL 8 + OLVM  (once the 4.4 is available ) ?
I saw 
https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/getting-started-with-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager
, but it's a little bit outdated and is about OLVM 4.2 + OEL 7 .


Happy Hollidays! 
Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Simon Coter]

OLVM and its updates, as well as Oracle Linux (that's OL, not OEL), are 
available for free.
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[marcel d'heureuse]

I think oracle is not a solution. if they do the same with oracle Linux like 
java one year ago. that you can't use it in company's it will be a wast of time 
to move to oracle. 

or am I wrong?

br
marcel

Am 25. Dezember 2020 22:13:29 MEZ schrieb Strahil Nikolov via Users 
:
>В 19:35 + на 25.12.2020 (пт), James Loker-Steele via Users написа:
>> Yes.
>> We use OEL and have setup oracles branded ovirt as well as test ovirt
>> on oracle and it works a treat.
>Hey James,
>
>is Oracle 's version of oVirt paid ?
>
>Best Regards,
>Strahil Nikolov
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Strahil Nikolov via Users]

В 19:35 + на 25.12.2020 (пт), James Loker-Steele via Users написа:
> Yes.
> We use OEL and have setup oracles branded ovirt as well as test ovirt
> on oracle and it works a treat.
Hey James,

is Oracle 's version of oVirt paid ?

Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Vinícius Ferrão via Users]

Oracle took that college meme — just change the variables name — too seriously.

> On 25 Dec 2020, at 16:35, James Loker-Steele via Users  
> wrote:
> 
> Yes.
> We use OEL and have setup oracles branded ovirt as well as test ovirt on 
> oracle and it works a treat.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone
> 
>> On 25 Dec 2020, at 18:23, Diggy Mc  wrote:
>> 
>> Is Oracle Linux a viable alternative for the oVirt project?  It is, after 
>> all, a rebuild of RHEL like CentOS.  If not viable, why not?  I need to make 
>> some decisions posthaste about my pending oVirt 4.4 deployments.
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[James Loker-Steele via Users]

Yes.
We use OEL and have setup oracles branded ovirt as well as test ovirt on oracle 
and it works a treat.


Sent from my iPhone

> On 25 Dec 2020, at 18:23, Diggy Mc  wrote:
> 
> Is Oracle Linux a viable alternative for the oVirt project?  It is, after 
> all, a rebuild of RHEL like CentOS.  If not viable, why not?  I need to make 
> some decisions posthaste about my pending oVirt 4.4 deployments.
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Strahil Nikolov via Users]

В 18:22 + на 25.12.2020 (пт), Diggy Mc написа:
> Is Oracle Linux a viable alternative for the oVirt project?  It is,
> after all, a rebuild of RHEL like CentOS.  If not viable, why not?  I
> need to make some decisions posthaste about my pending oVirt 4.4
> deployments.

It should be ,as Oracle has their own OLVM: 
https://blogs.oracle.com/virtualization/announcing-oracle-linux-virtualization-manager-43

Merry Christmas !

Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Diggy Mc]

Is Oracle Linux a viable alternative for the oVirt project?  It is, after all, 
a rebuild of RHEL like CentOS.  If not viable, why not?  I need to make some 
decisions posthaste about my pending oVirt 4.4 deployments.
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[thomas]

I am glad you think so and it works for you. But I'd also guess that you put 
more than a partial FTE to the project.

I got attracted via the HCI angle they started pushing as a result of Nutanix 
creating a bit of a stir. The ability to use discarded production boxes for a 
lab with the flexibility of just adding boxes as they were released and 
discarding them as they died eventually, was what I had in mind for oVirt. The 
inherent flexibility of Gluster would seen to support that, KVM's 
live-migration and the fundamental design of the management engine and the VDSM 
agents, fit, too.

Then come the details... and they fall quite short of that vision. I thought I 
had found another golden nugget like OpenVZ, but HCI is still more of a hack 
for three nodes without a natural n+1 path beyond, when Gluster was supposed to 
outscale Lustre.
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[James Loker-Steele via Users]

Also we have begun using OLVM based on tests we conducted with ovirt a while 
ago.
Only issue is olvm is currently stuck on 4.3.6 and waiting for oracle to 
release updates is a slow process.
Personally I would have liked to use ovirt but apparently using oracle is 
better for the Databases.
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[thomas]

Hi Strahil,

OpenVZ is winding down, unfortunately. They haven't gone near CentOS8 yet any I 
don't see that happen either. It's very unfortunate, because I really loved 
that project and I always preferred its container abstraction as well as the 
resource management tools, because scale-in is really the more prevalent use 
case where I work.

I see Kir Kolyshkin is now at Redhat, but he doesn't seem to be working on cool 
things like CRIU any more, just Kubernetes.

I had issues trying to get CUDA working with OpenVZ (inside containers), too, 
mostly because Nvidia's software was doing stupid things like trying to load 
modules. It's the reason I went back to VMs, because they actually seem to have 
less trouble with GPUs these days, which must have cost man centuries of 
engineer time to achieve.

I'll have to look at RHV pricing to see if it's an alternative. We seem to have 
extremely attractive RHEL licensing prices to push out our CentOS usage and now 
we know how that will change. But I won't be able to use those licenses for my 
home-lab, which is where I test things before I move them to the corporate lab, 
which is hundreds of miles away, instead of under the table.

As far as I am concerned, I did already spend far too much time learning about 
oVirt. I didn't want a full time involvement, but it's clearly what it takes 
and actually a 24x7 team while you're at it. My understanding of a fault 
tolerant environment is really, that you can move maintenance to where it suits 
you and that you just add another brick for more reliability. I've never 
operated Nutanix, but I can't imagine that expanding a 3 node HCI is the same 
experience. E.g. I'd naturally want to use erasure coding with higher node 
counts, but the Python code for that is simply not there: I twiddled with 
Ansible code to get a 4:1 dispersed volume working that I now need to migrate 
to oVirt 4.4...

My commitment to Gluster is hampered by Redhat's commitment to Gluster. 
Initially it seemed just genius, exactly the right approach, especially with 
VDO. But the integration between Gluster and oVirt seems stuck at six months 
after Gluster acquisition, not the years that passed since.

IMHO oVirt is a house of cards, that's a little to agile to run even the lab 
parts of an enterprise.

But for the next year, I'll probably stick with it. But it's chances of 
replacing VMware even via RHEL/RHV for production have shrunk to pretty much 
zero. Too bad that that was exactly what I had in mind.
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[James Loker-Steele via Users]

This is what we are planning to do. We made a decision a while ago to start 
using oracle Linux as we are already an oracle db house. 
We have centos machines and are slowly ditching Ubuntu and Debian.
Moving to OEL is the logical choice.
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[thomas]

The major issue with that is that oVirt 4.3 is out of maintenance, with Python2 
EOL being a main reason.

CentOS reboots are happening, but will be to little avail, when the oVirt team 
won't support them.
It's a mess that does lots of damage to this project, but IBM might just have 
different priorities.
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Tim Tuck]

Why not migrate to Oracle Linux ?

https://blogs.oracle.com/linux/need-a-stable,-rhel-compatible-alternative-to-centos-three-reasons-to-consider-oracle-linux

They even have a Centos to OL conversion script.

cheers

Tim

On 9/12/20 7:34 am, marcel d'heureuse wrote:
So, I think keep the live system on ovirt 4.3 to be sure that's works 
after 2021?


Distribution you have 10 years support? Centos 7 has support up to 
June 24.


Someone starts to evolute Gentoo?

marcel

Am 8. Dezember 2020 21:15:48 MEZ schrieb "Vinícius Ferrão via Users" 
:


CentOS Stream is unstable at best.

I’ve used it recently and it was just a mess. There’s no binary
compatibility with the current point release and there’s no
version pinning. So it will be really difficult to keep track of
things.

I’m really curious how oVirt will handle this.

*From:* Wesley Stewart 
*Sent:* Tuesday, December 8, 2020 4:56 PM
*To:* Strahil Nikolov 
*Cc:* users 
*Subject:* [ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

This is a little concerning.

But it seems pretty easy to convert:

https://www.centos.org/centos-stream/

However I would be curious to see if someone tests this with
having an active ovirt node!

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 2:39 PM Strahil Nikolov via Users
mailto:users@ovirt.org>> wrote:

Hello All,

I'm really worried about the following news:
https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/

Did anyone tried to port oVirt to SLES/openSUSE or any
Debian-based
distro ?

Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov
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--
Diese Nachricht wurde von meinem Android-Gerät mit K-9 Mail gesendet.

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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[marcel d'heureuse]

So, I think keep the live system on ovirt 4.3 to be sure that's works after 
2021?

Distribution you have 10 years support? Centos 7 has support up to June 24.

Someone starts to evolute Gentoo? 

marcel

Am 8. Dezember 2020 21:15:48 MEZ schrieb "Vinícius Ferrão via Users" 
:
>CentOS Stream is unstable at best.
>
>I’ve used it recently and it was just a mess. There’s no binary
>compatibility with the current point release and there’s no version
>pinning. So it will be really difficult to keep track of things.
>
>I’m really curious how oVirt will handle this.
>
>From: Wesley Stewart 
>Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 4:56 PM
>To: Strahil Nikolov 
>Cc: users 
>Subject: [ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead
>
>This is a little concerning.
>
>But it seems pretty easy to convert:
>https://www.centos.org/centos-stream/
>
>However I would be curious to see if someone tests this with having an
>active ovirt node!
>
>On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 2:39 PM Strahil Nikolov via Users
>mailto:users@ovirt.org>> wrote:
>Hello All,
>
>I'm really worried about the following news:
>https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/
>
>Did anyone tried to port oVirt to SLES/openSUSE or any Debian-based
>distro ?
>
>Best Regards,
>Strahil Nikolov
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Strahil Nikolov via Users]

Hi Thomas,

actually your expectations are a little bit high. Why I'm saying this ?
oVirt is the upstream of RedHat's and Oracle's paid solutions. As such , it's 
much more dynamic and we are a kind of testers of it. So, oVirt to RHV is like 
Fedora (and not CentOS) to RHEL.

Actually , you are looking for RHV fork (as CentOS is such) and not for oVirt.

In order to negate those stuff, you need to:
- Use patch management. You can't install packages{A,B,C} on your test 
environment and then install packages{D,E,F} on prod and pretend that 
everything is fine.
- Learn a little bit about oVirt & Gluster. Both softwares require some prior 
knowledge or you will have headaches. Gluster is simple to setup , but it's 
complex and not free of bugs (just like every upstream project).And of course, 
it is the upstream of RHGS - so you are in the same boat with oVirt.

If you really need stability , then you have the choice to evaluate RHEL + RHV 
+ Gluster and I can assure you it is more stable than the current setup.

I should admit that I got 2 cases where Gluster caused me headaches , but 
that's 2 issues for 2 years and compared to the multimillion Storages that we 
got (and failed 3 times till the vendor fixed the firmware) - is far less than 
expected.

My Lab is currently frozen to 4.3.10 and the only headaches are my old hardware.

Of course , if you feel much more confident with OpenVZ than oVirt, I think 
that it's quite natural to prefer it.

On the positive side, the community of oVirt is quite active and willing to 
assist (including RedHat engineers) and I have not seen a single issue not 
solved.

Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov






В четвъртък, 10 декември 2020 г., 22:03:45 Гринуич+2, tho...@hoberg.net 
 написа: 





I came to oVirt thinking that it was like CentOS: There might be bugs, but 
given the mainline usage in home and coporate labs with light workloads and 
nothing special, chances to hit one should be pretty minor: I like looking for 
new fronteers atop of my OS, not inside.

I have been runing CentOS/OpenVZ for years in a previous job, mission critical 
24x7 stuff where minutes of outage meant being grilled for hours in meetings 
afterwards. And with PCI-DSS compliance certified. Never had an issue with 
OpenVZ/CentOS, all those minute goofs where human error or Oracle inventing 
execution plans.

Boy was I wrong about oVirt! Just setting it up took weeks. Ansible loves 
eating Gigahertz and I was running on Atoms. I had to learn how to switch from 
an i7 in mid-installation to have it finish at all. I the end I had learned 
tons of new things, but all I wanted was a cluster that would work as much out 
of the box as CentOS or OpenVZ.

Something as fundamental as exporting and importing a VM might simply not work 
and not even get fixed.

Migrating HCI from CentOS7/oVirt 4.3 to CentOS8/oVirt 4.4 is anything but 
smooth, a complete rebuild seems the lesser evil: Now if only exports and 
imports worked reliably!

Rebooting a HCI nodes seems to involve an "I am dying!" aria on the network, 
where the whole switch becomes unresponsive for 10 minutes and the fault 
tolerant cluster on it being 100% unresponsive (including all other machines on 
that switch). I has so much fun resynching gluster file systems and searching 
through all those log files for signs as to what was going on!
And the instructions on how to fix gluster issues seems so wonderfully detailed 
and vague, it seems one could spend days trying to fix things or rebuild and 
restore. It doesn't help that the fate of Gluster very much seems to hang in 
the air, when the scalable HCI aspect was the only reason I ever wanted oVirt.

Could just be an issue with RealTek adapters, because I never oberved something 
like that with Intel NICs or on (recycled old) enterprise hardware

I guess official support for a 3 node HCI cluster on passive Atoms isn't going 
to happen, unless I make happen 100% myself: It's open source after all!

Just think what 3/6/9 node HCI based on Raspberry PI would do for the project! 
The 9 node HCI should deliver better 10Gbit GlusterFS performance than most 
QNAP units at the same cost with a single 10Gbit interface even with 7:2 
erasure coding!

I really think the future of oVirt may be at the edge, not in the datacenter 
core.

In short: oVirt is very much beta software and quite simply a full-time job if 
you depend on it working over time.

I can't see that getting any better when one beta gets to run on top of another 
beta. At the moment my oVirt experience has me doubt RHV on RHEL would work any 
better, even if it's cheaper than VMware.

OpenVZ was simply the far better alternative than KVM for most of the things I 
needed from virtualization and it was mainly the hastle of trying to make that 
work with RHEL which had me switching to CentOS. CentOS with OpenVZ was the 
bedrock of that business for 15 years and proved to me that Redhat was 
hell-bent on making bad decisions on technological 

[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Sandro Bonazzola]

Il giorno mar 8 dic 2020 alle ore 20:39 Strahil Nikolov via Users <
users@ovirt.org> ha scritto:

> Hello All,
>
> I'm really worried about the following news:
> https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/


oVirt already defined plans about CentOS Stream one year ago:
https://blogs.ovirt.org/2019/09/ovirt-and-centos-stream/
There shouldn't be any worries about CentOS Stream.


> Did anyone tried to port oVirt to SLES/openSUSE or any Debian-based
> distro ?
>

Yes, we tried for Debian, Ubuntu, Gentoo, ArchLinux:
https://www.ovirt.org/develop/developer-guide/porting-ovirt.html
Someone tried on Suse as well: https://software.opensuse.org/package/vdsm
But I would rather look at CentOS Stream as it will be the one being tested
with oVirt or to alternative RHEL binary compatible rebuilds.



>
> Best Regards,
> Strahil Nikolov
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-- 

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MANAGER, SOFTWARE ENGINEERING, EMEA R RHV

Red Hat EMEA 

sbona...@redhat.com


*Red Hat respects your work life balance. Therefore there is no need to
answer this email out of your office hours.*
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Alex McWhirter]

On 2020-12-10 15:02, tho...@hoberg.net wrote:

I came to oVirt thinking that it was like CentOS: There might be bugs,
but given the mainline usage in home and coporate labs with light
workloads and nothing special, chances to hit one should be pretty
minor: I like looking for new fronteers atop of my OS, not inside.

I have been runing CentOS/OpenVZ for years in a previous job, mission
critical 24x7 stuff where minutes of outage meant being grilled for
hours in meetings afterwards. And with PCI-DSS compliance certified.
Never had an issue with OpenVZ/CentOS, all those minute goofs where
human error or Oracle inventing execution plans.

Boy was I wrong about oVirt! Just setting it up took weeks. Ansible
loves eating Gigahertz and I was running on Atoms. I had to learn how
to switch from an i7 in mid-installation to have it finish at all. I
the end I had learned tons of new things, but all I wanted was a
cluster that would work as much out of the box as CentOS or OpenVZ.

Something as fundamental as exporting and importing a VM might simply
not work and not even get fixed.

Migrating HCI from CentOS7/oVirt 4.3 to CentOS8/oVirt 4.4 is anything
but smooth, a complete rebuild seems the lesser evil: Now if only
exports and imports worked reliably!

Rebooting a HCI nodes seems to involve an "I am dying!" aria on the
network, where the whole switch becomes unresponsive for 10 minutes
and the fault tolerant cluster on it being 100% unresponsive
(including all other machines on that switch). I has so much fun
resynching gluster file systems and searching through all those log
files for signs as to what was going on!
And the instructions on how to fix gluster issues seems so wonderfully
detailed and vague, it seems one could spend days trying to fix things
or rebuild and restore. It doesn't help that the fate of Gluster very
much seems to hang in the air, when the scalable HCI aspect was the
only reason I ever wanted oVirt.

Could just be an issue with RealTek adapters, because I never oberved
something like that with Intel NICs or on (recycled old) enterprise
hardware

I guess official support for a 3 node HCI cluster on passive Atoms
isn't going to happen, unless I make happen 100% myself: It's open
source after all!

Just think what 3/6/9 node HCI based on Raspberry PI would do for the
project! The 9 node HCI should deliver better 10Gbit GlusterFS
performance than most QNAP units at the same cost with a single 10Gbit
interface even with 7:2 erasure coding!

I really think the future of oVirt may be at the edge, not in the
datacenter core.

In short: oVirt is very much beta software and quite simply a
full-time job if you depend on it working over time.

I can't see that getting any better when one beta gets to run on top
of another beta. At the moment my oVirt experience has me doubt RHV on
RHEL would work any better, even if it's cheaper than VMware.

OpenVZ was simply the far better alternative than KVM for most of the
things I needed from virtualization and it was mainly the hastle of
trying to make that work with RHEL which had me switching to CentOS.
CentOS with OpenVZ was the bedrock of that business for 15 years and
proved to me that Redhat was hell-bent on making bad decisions on
technological direction.

I would have actually liked to pay a license for each of the physical
hosts we used, but it turned out much less of a bother to forget about
negotiating licensing conditions for OpenVZ containers and use CentOS
instead.

BTW: I am going into a meeting tomorrow, where after two years of
pilot usage, we might just decide to kill our current oVirt farms,
because they didn't deliver on "a free open-source virtualization
solution for your entire enterprise".

I'll keep my Atoms running a little longer, mostly because I have
nothing else to use them for. For a first time in months, they show
zero gluster replication errors, perhaps because for lack of updates
there have been no node reboots. CentOS 7 is stable, but oVirt 4.3 out
of support.
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oVirt has more or less always been RHEV upstream, while not necessarily 
beta, people using oVirt over RHEV have been subject to the occasional 
broken feature or two, at least at early release. If you need the 
stability and support, RHEV is the answer. However, we use oVirt and 
CentOS 8 in production on a fairly large scale and it's not an 
unreasonable amount of work to keep running. It's certainly not a set it 
and forget it scenario, but it works very well for us.


There are also a ton of moving parts to running oVirt at scale. 
hardware, firmware, network configuration, 

[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[thomas]

I came to oVirt thinking that it was like CentOS: There might be bugs, but 
given the mainline usage in home and coporate labs with light workloads and 
nothing special, chances to hit one should be pretty minor: I like looking for 
new fronteers atop of my OS, not inside.

I have been runing CentOS/OpenVZ for years in a previous job, mission critical 
24x7 stuff where minutes of outage meant being grilled for hours in meetings 
afterwards. And with PCI-DSS compliance certified. Never had an issue with 
OpenVZ/CentOS, all those minute goofs where human error or Oracle inventing 
execution plans.

Boy was I wrong about oVirt! Just setting it up took weeks. Ansible loves 
eating Gigahertz and I was running on Atoms. I had to learn how to switch from 
an i7 in mid-installation to have it finish at all. I the end I had learned 
tons of new things, but all I wanted was a cluster that would work as much out 
of the box as CentOS or OpenVZ.

Something as fundamental as exporting and importing a VM might simply not work 
and not even get fixed.

Migrating HCI from CentOS7/oVirt 4.3 to CentOS8/oVirt 4.4 is anything but 
smooth, a complete rebuild seems the lesser evil: Now if only exports and 
imports worked reliably!

Rebooting a HCI nodes seems to involve an "I am dying!" aria on the network, 
where the whole switch becomes unresponsive for 10 minutes and the fault 
tolerant cluster on it being 100% unresponsive (including all other machines on 
that switch). I has so much fun resynching gluster file systems and searching 
through all those log files for signs as to what was going on!
And the instructions on how to fix gluster issues seems so wonderfully detailed 
and vague, it seems one could spend days trying to fix things or rebuild and 
restore. It doesn't help that the fate of Gluster very much seems to hang in 
the air, when the scalable HCI aspect was the only reason I ever wanted oVirt.

Could just be an issue with RealTek adapters, because I never oberved something 
like that with Intel NICs or on (recycled old) enterprise hardware

I guess official support for a 3 node HCI cluster on passive Atoms isn't going 
to happen, unless I make happen 100% myself: It's open source after all!

Just think what 3/6/9 node HCI based on Raspberry PI would do for the project! 
The 9 node HCI should deliver better 10Gbit GlusterFS performance than most 
QNAP units at the same cost with a single 10Gbit interface even with 7:2 
erasure coding!

I really think the future of oVirt may be at the edge, not in the datacenter 
core.

In short: oVirt is very much beta software and quite simply a full-time job if 
you depend on it working over time.

I can't see that getting any better when one beta gets to run on top of another 
beta. At the moment my oVirt experience has me doubt RHV on RHEL would work any 
better, even if it's cheaper than VMware.

OpenVZ was simply the far better alternative than KVM for most of the things I 
needed from virtualization and it was mainly the hastle of trying to make that 
work with RHEL which had me switching to CentOS. CentOS with OpenVZ was the 
bedrock of that business for 15 years and proved to me that Redhat was 
hell-bent on making bad decisions on technological direction.

I would have actually liked to pay a license for each of the physical hosts we 
used, but it turned out much less of a bother to forget about negotiating 
licensing conditions for OpenVZ containers and use CentOS instead.

BTW: I am going into a meeting tomorrow, where after two years of pilot usage, 
we might just decide to kill our current oVirt farms, because they didn't 
deliver on "a free open-source virtualization solution for your entire 
enterprise".

I'll keep my Atoms running a little longer, mostly because I have nothing else 
to use them for. For a first time in months, they show zero gluster replication 
errors, perhaps because for lack of updates there have been no node reboots. 
CentOS 7 is stable, but oVirt 4.3 out of support.
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Jayme]

It looks like a few forks are popping up already. A new project called
RockyLinux and now CloudLinux announced an RHEL fork today which sounds
promising:
https://blog.cloudlinux.com/announcing-open-sourced-community-driven-rhel-fork-by-cloudlinux

On Thu, Dec 10, 2020 at 5:42 AM Jorick Astrego  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> Personally I don't really see the problem with the CentOS stream switch.
> Not trying to start a long discussion but I think it will be even be an
> improvement.
>
> Currently we use different combinations of EPEL, SCL, Elrepo etc. just
> to get some newer packages and a lot of people do the same and have no
> issues with this. oVirt even uses EPEL packages as dependency.
>
> Most of these will become redundant because of stream...
>
> Actually Red Hat has the same strategy for oVirt, it's an upstream for
> Red Hat Virtualization. So with the new CentOS strategy you will be one
> step ahead on OS and virtualization manager of the paid version.
>
> Testing is always required and with tooling like Katello you can push
> the packages after testing to production easily. If you need enterprise
> grade stability and support that much, then you should buy it or hire
> people to do it in house.
>
> Just my 2c as I see a lot of people getting really worked up about it.
>
> Jorick Astrego
>
> On 12/9/20 2:25 PM, Michal Skrivanek wrote:
> >
> >> On 9 Dec 2020, at 01:21, thilb...@generalpacific.com wrote:
> >>
> >> I to would like to see if Ubuntu could become a bit more main stream
> with oVirt now that CentOS is gone. I'm sure we won't hear anything until
> 2021 the oVirt staff need to figure out what to do now.
> > Right now we’re happy that CentOS 8.3 is finally here. That aligns 4.4.3
> and 4.4.4 again, makes the 4.5 cluster level usable, tons of bug fixes.
> > Afterwards…well, I think Stream is not a bad option, we already have it
> in some form. I suppose it’s going to be the most feasible option.
> > For anything else *someone* would need to do all the work. And I don’t
> mean it in a way that we - all the people with @redhat.com address - are
> forbidden to do that or something, it’s really about the sheer amount of
> work and dedication required, doubling the integration efforts. oVirt is
> (maybe surprisingly) complex and testing it on any new platform means a lot
> of extra manpower.
> >
> >
> >> ___
> >> Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org
> >> To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org
> >> Privacy Statement: https://www.ovirt.org/privacy-policy.html
> >> oVirt Code of Conduct:
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>
>
>
>
> Met vriendelijke groet, With kind regards,
>
> Jorick Astrego
>
> *Netbulae Virtualization Experts *
> --
> Tel: 053 20 30 270 i...@netbulae.eu Staalsteden 4-3A KvK 08198180
> Fax: 053 20 30 271 www.netbulae.eu 7547 TA Enschede BTW NL821234584B01
> --
>
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Jorick Astrego]

Hi,

Personally I don't really see the problem with the CentOS stream switch.
Not trying to start a long discussion but I think it will be even be an
improvement.

Currently we use different combinations of EPEL, SCL, Elrepo etc. just
to get some newer packages and a lot of people do the same and have no
issues with this. oVirt even uses EPEL packages as dependency.

Most of these will become redundant because of stream...

Actually Red Hat has the same strategy for oVirt, it's an upstream for
Red Hat Virtualization. So with the new CentOS strategy you will be one
step ahead on OS and virtualization manager of the paid version.

Testing is always required and with tooling like Katello you can push
the packages after testing to production easily. If you need enterprise
grade stability and support that much, then you should buy it or hire
people to do it in house.

Just my 2c as I see a lot of people getting really worked up about it.

Jorick Astrego

On 12/9/20 2:25 PM, Michal Skrivanek wrote:
>
>> On 9 Dec 2020, at 01:21, thilb...@generalpacific.com wrote:
>>
>> I to would like to see if Ubuntu could become a bit more main stream with 
>> oVirt now that CentOS is gone. I'm sure we won't hear anything until 2021 
>> the oVirt staff need to figure out what to do now.
> Right now we’re happy that CentOS 8.3 is finally here. That aligns 4.4.3 and 
> 4.4.4 again, makes the 4.5 cluster level usable, tons of bug fixes. 
> Afterwards…well, I think Stream is not a bad option, we already have it in 
> some form. I suppose it’s going to be the most feasible option.
> For anything else *someone* would need to do all the work. And I don’t mean 
> it in a way that we - all the people with @redhat.com address - are forbidden 
> to do that or something, it’s really about the sheer amount of work and 
> dedication required, doubling the integration efforts. oVirt is (maybe 
> surprisingly) complex and testing it on any new platform means a lot of extra 
> manpower. 
>
>
>> ___
>> Users mailing list -- users@ovirt.org
>> To unsubscribe send an email to users-le...@ovirt.org
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Met vriendelijke groet, With kind regards,

Jorick Astrego

Netbulae Virtualization Experts 



Tel: 053 20 30 270  i...@netbulae.euStaalsteden 4-3A
KvK 08198180
Fax: 053 20 30 271  www.netbulae.eu 7547 TA Enschede
BTW NL821234584B01



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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Michal Skrivanek]

> On 9 Dec 2020, at 01:21, thilb...@generalpacific.com wrote:
> 
> I to would like to see if Ubuntu could become a bit more main stream with 
> oVirt now that CentOS is gone. I'm sure we won't hear anything until 2021 the 
> oVirt staff need to figure out what to do now.

Right now we’re happy that CentOS 8.3 is finally here. That aligns 4.4.3 and 
4.4.4 again, makes the 4.5 cluster level usable, tons of bug fixes. 
Afterwards…well, I think Stream is not a bad option, we already have it in some 
form. I suppose it’s going to be the most feasible option.
For anything else *someone* would need to do all the work. And I don’t mean it 
in a way that we - all the people with @redhat.com address - are forbidden to 
do that or something, it’s really about the sheer amount of work and dedication 
required, doubling the integration efforts. oVirt is (maybe surprisingly) 
complex and testing it on any new platform means a lot of extra manpower. 


> ___
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Michal Skrivanek]

> On 8 Dec 2020, at 20:55, Wesley Stewart  wrote:
> 
> This is a little concerning.  
> 
> But it seems pretty easy to convert:
> https://www.centos.org/centos-stream/ 
> 
> However I would be curious to see if someone tests this with having an active 
> ovirt node!

We have CentOS Stream release rpm for a while now[1]. It’s not actively used 
AFAIK but we wanted to explore that since CentOS was long term lagging behind 
released versions.

It’s not really that important what OS we run on, the biggest problem is the 
other dependencies we have, jboss, ansible, openvswitch, virt stack - that 
doesn’t come from CentOS. If we get regular development and reliable releases 
of our dependencies on Stream then we can make oVirt as stable there as it is 
now on CentOS.


> 
> On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 2:39 PM Strahil Nikolov via Users  > wrote:
> Hello All,
> 
> I'm really worried about the following news: 
> https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/ 
> 
> 
> Did anyone tried to port oVirt to SLES/openSUSE or any Debian-based
> distro ?

We did invest in Debian support long long time ago (we eventually gave up due 
to lack of capacity and reliable/up-to-date dependencies)
We did support PowerKVM distro for ppc64 during the time when IBM was switching 
from PowerVM to qemu (it stopped being relevant). 
And Fedora (same reason as debian, but it still works)

Again, it’s not such a big deal to run on other distro, there’s work in oVirt 
that needs to happen but as long as it is not exotic and versions are not too 
off it’s not really that big of a change, IMHO. What is a big deal is a long 
term commitment to maintain that and help/provide CI resources.

Thanks,
michal

[1] 
https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/thread/3B5MJKO7BS2DMQL3XOXPNO4BU3YDL52T/

> 
> Best Regards,
> Strahil Nikolov
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Tony Brian Albers]

FYI we still have:

Springdale Open Enterprise Linux (http://springdale.math.ias.edu)

Oracle Enterprise Linux (https://www.oracle.com/linux/)

So all is not lost. They are both rebuilds of RHEL from the SRPMS.

/tony


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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Adam Xu]

IBM is destroying Red hat. Sad.

在 2020/12/9 6:05, Derek Atkins 写道:

Hmm.
I appear to be having Slack issues.
Even though I am logged into my slack and have it running, when I click
this link I get a "sign in to your workspace" -- and I can't get to this
channel.
Maybe it's not public and is limited somehow?
Or maybe Slack doesn't like me?
-derek

On Tue, December 8, 2020 4:21 pm, Strahil Nikolov wrote:

Actually,

you are not the only one thinking about it.
You can check a lot of users (including me) are joining the following
slack channel: https://app.slack.com/client/T0YKGK200/D01H5BZ85LG

Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov

В 16:01 -0500 на 08.12.2020 (вт), Derek Atkins написа:

On Tue, December 8, 2020 3:49 pm, Christopher Cox wrote:

On 12/8/20 2:20 PM, Michael Watters wrote:

This was one of my fears regarding the IBM acquisition.  I guess
we
can't complain too much, it's not like anybody *pays* for
CentOS.  :)

Yes, but this greatly limits oVirt use to temporal dev labs only.

Maybe oVirt should look into what it would take to one of the long
term
Devian
based distros

So... stupid question, but...   What would it take for a group of
interested individuals to "take over" the current CentOS-as-RHEL-
rebuild
processes currently in place?  I honestly have no idea how much
person-hour effort it it is to maintain CentOS, or what other
resources
(build machines / infrastructure) are required?


...snippity

-derek
--
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de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[thilburn]

I to would like to see if Ubuntu could become a bit more main stream with oVirt 
now that CentOS is gone. I'm sure we won't hear anything until 2021 the oVirt 
staff need to figure out what to do now.
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[WK]

On 12/8/2020 12:20 PM, Michael Watters wrote:

This was one of my fears regarding the IBM acquisition.  I guess we
can't complain too much, it's not like anybody *pays* for CentOS.  :)


yes, but "we" do provide feedback and bug reports from a LOT of 
different environments which directly helps RHEL. That is not an 
insignificant benefit to IBM.


I'm sure IBM will pick up a few paid RHEL licenses with this move, but 
I'm not sure the amount will be material enough to show up on the income 
statement. Experienced admins can easily adapt to Debian/Ubuntu/Suse etc.


In contrast, they lose the projects who started off with CentOS but 
switched to RHEL paid support when they had special needs or the 
production environment dictated that they have a 'real' license with 
Support. We have a few customers who did precisely that.

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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Derek Atkins]

Hmm.
I appear to be having Slack issues.
Even though I am logged into my slack and have it running, when I click
this link I get a "sign in to your workspace" -- and I can't get to this
channel.
Maybe it's not public and is limited somehow?
Or maybe Slack doesn't like me?
-derek

On Tue, December 8, 2020 4:21 pm, Strahil Nikolov wrote:
> Actually,
>
> you are not the only one thinking about it.
> You can check a lot of users (including me) are joining the following
> slack channel: https://app.slack.com/client/T0YKGK200/D01H5BZ85LG
>
> Best Regards,
> Strahil Nikolov
>
> В 16:01 -0500 на 08.12.2020 (вт), Derek Atkins написа:
>> On Tue, December 8, 2020 3:49 pm, Christopher Cox wrote:
>> > On 12/8/20 2:20 PM, Michael Watters wrote:
>> > > This was one of my fears regarding the IBM acquisition.  I guess
>> > > we
>> > > can't complain too much, it's not like anybody *pays* for
>> > > CentOS.  :)
>> >
>> > Yes, but this greatly limits oVirt use to temporal dev labs only.
>> >
>> > Maybe oVirt should look into what it would take to one of the long
>> > term
>> > Devian
>> > based distros
>>
>> So... stupid question, but...   What would it take for a group of
>> interested individuals to "take over" the current CentOS-as-RHEL-
>> rebuild
>> processes currently in place?  I honestly have no idea how much
>> person-hour effort it it is to maintain CentOS, or what other
>> resources
>> (build machines / infrastructure) are required?
>>
>> > ...snippity
>>
>> -derek
>> --
>>Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>>de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>>Computer and Internet Security Consultant
>> ___
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>
>


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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Strahil Nikolov via Users]

Actually,

you are not the only one thinking about it.
You can check a lot of users (including me) are joining the following
slack channel: https://app.slack.com/client/T0YKGK200/D01H5BZ85LG

Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov

В 16:01 -0500 на 08.12.2020 (вт), Derek Atkins написа:
> On Tue, December 8, 2020 3:49 pm, Christopher Cox wrote:
> > On 12/8/20 2:20 PM, Michael Watters wrote:
> > > This was one of my fears regarding the IBM acquisition.  I guess
> > > we
> > > can't complain too much, it's not like anybody *pays* for
> > > CentOS.  :)
> > 
> > Yes, but this greatly limits oVirt use to temporal dev labs only.
> > 
> > Maybe oVirt should look into what it would take to one of the long
> > term
> > Devian
> > based distros
> 
> So... stupid question, but...   What would it take for a group of
> interested individuals to "take over" the current CentOS-as-RHEL-
> rebuild
> processes currently in place?  I honestly have no idea how much
> person-hour effort it it is to maintain CentOS, or what other
> resources
> (build machines / infrastructure) are required?
> 
> > ...snippity
> 
> -derek
> -- 
>Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>Computer and Internet Security Consultant
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[marcel d'heureuse]

Should we use Gentoo as baseline for ovirt? you can freeze this very easy but 
it's hard to manage. 

Ubuntu ltd will be a try for ovirt. 
our lab we will leave centos 7 up to june 24.

than we have to move 

br
marcel

Am 8. Dezember 2020 22:01:51 MEZ schrieb Derek Atkins :
>
>On Tue, December 8, 2020 3:49 pm, Christopher Cox wrote:
>> On 12/8/20 2:20 PM, Michael Watters wrote:
>>> This was one of my fears regarding the IBM acquisition.  I guess we
>>> can't complain too much, it's not like anybody *pays* for CentOS. 
>:)
>>
>> Yes, but this greatly limits oVirt use to temporal dev labs only.
>>
>> Maybe oVirt should look into what it would take to one of the long
>term
>> Devian
>> based distros
>
>So... stupid question, but...   What would it take for a group of
>interested individuals to "take over" the current
>CentOS-as-RHEL-rebuild
>processes currently in place?  I honestly have no idea how much
>person-hour effort it it is to maintain CentOS, or what other resources
>(build machines / infrastructure) are required?
>
>> ...snippity
>
>-derek
>-- 
>   Derek Atkins 617-623-3745
>   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
>   Computer and Internet Security Consultant
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Derek Atkins]

On Tue, December 8, 2020 3:49 pm, Christopher Cox wrote:
> On 12/8/20 2:20 PM, Michael Watters wrote:
>> This was one of my fears regarding the IBM acquisition.  I guess we
>> can't complain too much, it's not like anybody *pays* for CentOS.  :)
>
> Yes, but this greatly limits oVirt use to temporal dev labs only.
>
> Maybe oVirt should look into what it would take to one of the long term
> Devian
> based distros

So... stupid question, but...   What would it take for a group of
interested individuals to "take over" the current CentOS-as-RHEL-rebuild
processes currently in place?  I honestly have no idea how much
person-hour effort it it is to maintain CentOS, or what other resources
(build machines / infrastructure) are required?

> ...snippity

-derek
-- 
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   de...@ihtfp.com www.ihtfp.com
   Computer and Internet Security Consultant
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Christopher Cox]

On 12/8/20 2:20 PM, Michael Watters wrote:

This was one of my fears regarding the IBM acquisition.  I guess we
can't complain too much, it's not like anybody *pays* for CentOS.  :)


Yes, but this greatly limits oVirt use to temporal dev labs only.

Maybe oVirt should look into what it would take to one of the long term Devian 
based distros


...snippity
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Michael Watters]

This was one of my fears regarding the IBM acquisition.  I guess we
can't complain too much, it's not like anybody *pays* for CentOS.  :)

On 12/8/2020 3:14 PM, Strahil Nikolov via Users wrote:
> Yeah,
> the main problem is that Stream won't be as stable as RHEL (which also
> has tons of bugs) and you will have to fight with bugs in the OS as if
> I'm running a Fedota and on top of that - we have to be extra careful
> for oVirt.
> Also the Stream is quite new and we can't say if it will be as CentOS
> was in the past.
>
> Best Regards,
> Strahil Nikolov
>
> В 14:56 -0500 на 08.12.2020 (вт), Alex McWhirter написа:
>> On 2020-12-08 14:37, Strahil Nikolov via Users wrote:
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> I'm really worried about the following news:
>>> https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/
>>>
>>> Did anyone tried to port oVirt to SLES/openSUSE or any Debian-based
>>> distro ?
>>>
>>> Best Regards,
>>> Strahil Nikolov
>>> ___
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>>> https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/HZC4D4OSYL64DX5VYXDJCHDNRZDRGIT6/
>> I fail to see a major issue honestly. If current RHEL is 8.3, CentOS 
>> Stream is essentially the RC for 8.4... oVirt in and of itself is
>> also 
>> an upstream project, targeting upstream in advance is likely
>> beneficial 
>> for all parties involved.
>>
>> CentOS has been lagging behind RHEL quite a lot, creating it's own
>> set 
>> of issues. Being ahead of the curve is more beneficial than
>> detrimental 
>> IMO. The RHEL sources are still being published to the CentOS git,
>> oVirt 
>> node could be built against that, time will tell.
>>
>> Supported or not, i bet someone forks it anyways.
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Vinícius Ferrão via Users]

CentOS Stream is unstable at best.

I’ve used it recently and it was just a mess. There’s no binary compatibility 
with the current point release and there’s no version pinning. So it will be 
really difficult to keep track of things.

I’m really curious how oVirt will handle this.

From: Wesley Stewart 
Sent: Tuesday, December 8, 2020 4:56 PM
To: Strahil Nikolov 
Cc: users 
Subject: [ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

This is a little concerning.

But it seems pretty easy to convert:
https://www.centos.org/centos-stream/

However I would be curious to see if someone tests this with having an active 
ovirt node!

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 2:39 PM Strahil Nikolov via Users 
mailto:users@ovirt.org>> wrote:
Hello All,

I'm really worried about the following news:
https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/

Did anyone tried to port oVirt to SLES/openSUSE or any Debian-based
distro ?

Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Strahil Nikolov via Users]

Yeah,
the main problem is that Stream won't be as stable as RHEL (which also
has tons of bugs) and you will have to fight with bugs in the OS as if
I'm running a Fedota and on top of that - we have to be extra careful
for oVirt.
Also the Stream is quite new and we can't say if it will be as CentOS
was in the past.

Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov

В 14:56 -0500 на 08.12.2020 (вт), Alex McWhirter написа:
> On 2020-12-08 14:37, Strahil Nikolov via Users wrote:
> > Hello All,
> > 
> > I'm really worried about the following news:
> > https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/
> > 
> > Did anyone tried to port oVirt to SLES/openSUSE or any Debian-based
> > distro ?
> > 
> > Best Regards,
> > Strahil Nikolov
> > ___
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> > https://lists.ovirt.org/archives/list/users@ovirt.org/message/HZC4D4OSYL64DX5VYXDJCHDNRZDRGIT6/
> 
> I fail to see a major issue honestly. If current RHEL is 8.3, CentOS 
> Stream is essentially the RC for 8.4... oVirt in and of itself is
> also 
> an upstream project, targeting upstream in advance is likely
> beneficial 
> for all parties involved.
> 
> CentOS has been lagging behind RHEL quite a lot, creating it's own
> set 
> of issues. Being ahead of the curve is more beneficial than
> detrimental 
> IMO. The RHEL sources are still being published to the CentOS git,
> oVirt 
> node could be built against that, time will tell.
> 
> Supported or not, i bet someone forks it anyways.
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Wesley Stewart]

This is a little concerning.

But it seems pretty easy to convert:
https://www.centos.org/centos-stream/

However I would be curious to see if someone tests this with having an
active ovirt node!

On Tue, Dec 8, 2020 at 2:39 PM Strahil Nikolov via Users 
wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I'm really worried about the following news:
> https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/
>
> Did anyone tried to port oVirt to SLES/openSUSE or any Debian-based
> distro ?
>
> Best Regards,
> Strahil Nikolov
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[ovirt-users] Re: CentOS 8 is dead

[Alex McWhirter]

On 2020-12-08 14:37, Strahil Nikolov via Users wrote:

Hello All,

I'm really worried about the following news:
https://blog.centos.org/2020/12/future-is-centos-stream/

Did anyone tried to port oVirt to SLES/openSUSE or any Debian-based
distro ?

Best Regards,
Strahil Nikolov
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I fail to see a major issue honestly. If current RHEL is 8.3, CentOS 
Stream is essentially the RC for 8.4... oVirt in and of itself is also 
an upstream project, targeting upstream in advance is likely beneficial 
for all parties involved.


CentOS has been lagging behind RHEL quite a lot, creating it's own set 
of issues. Being ahead of the curve is more beneficial than detrimental 
IMO. The RHEL sources are still being published to the CentOS git, oVirt 
node could be built against that, time will tell.


Supported or not, i bet someone forks it anyways.
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