RE: [Action Required] About how to release Apache Royale

[Maria Jose Esteve]

Hi there,
First I want to thank you all for the personal effort and commitment you 
dedicate to this project, for me "it is priceless" gracias, thank you.

I don't think I have the knowledge to get into the underlying technical 
discussion; In my case, I had not even actively used Maven and ant until now, 
and of course I don't get to see the advantages and / or disadvantages of one 
or the other. I belong to the group of professionals who are "surpassed" 
migrating from Flex and that every morning we look at the Royale website to see 
if "there is a new sdk" 

I have carefully read this thread and that of the development group [1] and I 
am with Andrew.

From my ignorance I understand that, if so much effort has been devoted to 
building ant + maven, on the CI Server, it is because it has been valued that 
"it is the best" (?), But if it has been possible to build with Maven 
successfully Why not do it this way and use time and enthusiasm in other 
challenges? How about version 1.0 ?

I reiterate my admiration for your "work" and I will try to create the best 
showcases of it.

Thank you.

I include the text in my mother letter ...

Hola,
Primero quiero agradeceros a todos la implicación y esfuerzo personal que le 
dedicáis a este proyecto, para mí “no tiene precio” , gracias.

No creo tener los conocimientos necesarios para entrar en la discusión técnica 
subyacente; en mi caso, ni siquiera había utilizado Maven y ant activamente 
hasta ahora, y por supuesto no llego a ver las ventajas y/o inconvenientes de 
uno u otro. Pertenezco al grupo de profesionales que estamos “sobrepasados” 
migrando desde Flex y que cada mañana miramos la web de Royale para ver si “hay 
nuevo sdk” 

He leído con atención este hilo y el del grupo de desarrollo [1] y estoy con 
Andrew.

Desde mi ignorancia entiendo que, si se han dedicado tantos esfuerzos en la 
construcción ant+maven, en el Servidor CI, es porque se ha valorado que “es lo 
mejor” (¿?) pero, si se ha podido construir con Maven con éxito ¿por qué no 
hacerlo así y utilizar el tiempo y el entusiasmo en otros retos? ¿qué tal la 
versión 1.0 ?

Reitero mi admiración hacia vuestro “trabajo” e intentaré crear los mejores 
escaparates de él.

Gracias.

[1] 
http://apache-royale-development.20373.n8.nabble.com/Releasing-Finally-giving-up-td15323.html

De: Andrew Wetmore 
Enviado el: viernes, 27 de marzo de 2020 12:31
Para: users@royale.apache.org
Asunto: Re: [Action Required] About how to release Apache Royale

I do not have the technical knowledge to provide an informed evaluation at the 
build level, so I will try to look through the lens of outcomes: what are we 
doing builds for?

Maybe right now a large proportion of Royale users are people who like to tweak 
the source code and do their own builds locally. I do not think that is a user 
group that can sustain this project or make a difference in the world of 
application development. Our target audience is people who want a stable build 
they can use to build their own applications. The faster we can get stable 
builds out, the faster we can become available to that audience. The faster our 
user community grows, the better Royale becomes: the community exposes bugs, 
requests or provides emulations, creates showcase-quality apps using Royale, 
encourages other people to give Royale a try..

I have trouble keeping up with assertions that seem at odds with each other: 
"Ant is the devil!" "No, Maven is evil!" And maybe I am missing something 
crucial, but I seem to be reading that it is possible to build a stable version 
of Royale that we can release via Maven, while still providing support for 
anyone who wants to build using ant.

Is this so? Then why is that not the way to go?

A

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:31 PM Carlos Rovira 
mailto:carlosrov...@apache.org>> wrote:
Hi all,

if you care about this project, the PMC will need your help to know what's 
important to you about the "Release Process".

Chris Dutz and I was working these days on release a new version. We finally 
give up due to the complexity of the process.
The process involves to build in a CI Server with 13 steps and each one with 
some manual commands in CI server and in local machine. The process involves 
use Ant and Maven build systems, and that's what makes it so complicated.

Maven is the the most widest and used build system for release as this 
statistics clearly states [1] and is perfectly prepared for CI servers and all 
the tooling needed nowadays for release process.

Chris and I thinks that just using Maven can reduce the process to 2-3 steps 
and release without much problem, and even release often (each month or each 2 
months).

So we're asking to not require Ant to be part of the release process, since we 
think is not needed.

(This does NOT means remove Ant, we are talking just about release, and people 
using Ant will be able to continue using it as a build system, so don't be 
afraid about Ant support in the future!).

Re: [Action Required] About how to release Apache Royale

[Alex Harui]

I don’t recall anyone saying “Maven is evil”.  I also agree we should support 
both (and other popular build systems if it would bring in more users).  I 
believe that technically, we have to run Ant at some point in the release 
process in order to validate the release artifacts for Ant users.

My 2 cents,
-Alex

From: Andrew Wetmore 
Reply-To: "users@royale.apache.org" 
Date: Friday, March 27, 2020 at 4:31 AM
To: "users@royale.apache.org" 
Subject: Re: [Action Required] About how to release Apache Royale

I do not have the technical knowledge to provide an informed evaluation at the 
build level, so I will try to look through the lens of outcomes: what are we 
doing builds for?

Maybe right now a large proportion of Royale users are people who like to tweak 
the source code and do their own builds locally. I do not think that is a user 
group that can sustain this project or make a difference in the world of 
application development. Our target audience is people who want a stable build 
they can use to build their own applications. The faster we can get stable 
builds out, the faster we can become available to that audience. The faster our 
user community grows, the better Royale becomes: the community exposes bugs, 
requests or provides emulations, creates showcase-quality apps using Royale, 
encourages other people to give Royale a try..

I have trouble keeping up with assertions that seem at odds with each other: 
"Ant is the devil!" "No, Maven is evil!" And maybe I am missing something 
crucial, but I seem to be reading that it is possible to build a stable version 
of Royale that we can release via Maven, while still providing support for 
anyone who wants to build using ant.

Is this so? Then why is that not the way to go?

A

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:31 PM Carlos Rovira 
mailto:carlosrov...@apache.org>> wrote:
Hi all,

if you care about this project, the PMC will need your help to know what's 
important to you about the "Release Process".

Chris Dutz and I was working these days on release a new version. We finally 
give up due to the complexity of the process.
The process involves to build in a CI Server with 13 steps and each one with 
some manual commands in CI server and in local machine. The process involves 
use Ant and Maven build systems, and that's what makes it so complicated.

Maven is the the most widest and used build system for release as this 
statistics clearly states [1] and is perfectly prepared for CI servers and all 
the tooling needed nowadays for release process.

Chris and I thinks that just using Maven can reduce the process to 2-3 steps 
and release without much problem, and even release often (each month or each 2 
months).

So we're asking to not require Ant to be part of the release process, since we 
think is not needed.

(This does NOT means remove Ant, we are talking just about release, and people 
using Ant will be able to continue using it as a build system, so don't be 
afraid about Ant support in the future!).

We're afraid for this project due to this problem, so for this reason is 
important that you express what's important from your point of view as an 
Apache Royale user. So please express yourself in this thread and let us know 
what path should we take. It's important.

We want to hear from you!

Thanks community :)

[1] 
https://twitter.com/ChristoferDutz/status/1240219399551934473

--

http://about.me/carlosrovira



--
Andrew Wetmore

http://cottage14.blogspot.com/

Re: [Action Required] About how to release Apache Royale

[Takeshita Shoichiro]

Hi, from the user point of view, I care two things; stable SDK and no
functional differences of SDK among supported OS.  Differences of OS should
be managed by Build process.

By the way, I do not fully understand why two building systems are used.
In case of Java development, Maven is popular than Ant these days. As to
Flex, our build is Ant.  But now will change it to Maven.  This is another
story and would not be compared with Royale SDK build.

2020年3月27日(金) 22:40 Jasen Martin :

> hi All
>
> Firstly, thankyou so much for everyone's effort, I know it has not been
> easy!
>
> I am no expert in either system. However, I do prefer using maven but have
> nothing against ant.
>
> What I am interested in is Royale moving forward with releases, what ever
> helps Royale release early and often appeals to me the most.
>
> Just my 2 cents worth.
>
> Thanks again to everyone!
> Jasen
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
> <#m_-7612433385867325466_DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>
>
> On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:31 PM Andrew Wetmore 
> wrote:
>
>> I do not have the technical knowledge to provide an informed evaluation
>> at the build level, so I will try to look through the lens of outcomes:
>> what are we doing builds for?
>>
>> Maybe right now a large proportion of Royale users are people who like to
>> tweak the source code and do their own builds locally. I do not think that
>> is a user group that can sustain this project or make a difference in the
>> world of application development. Our target audience is people who want a
>> stable build they can use to build their own applications. The faster we
>> can get stable builds out, the faster we can become available to that
>> audience. The faster our user community grows, the better Royale becomes:
>> the community exposes bugs, requests or provides emulations, creates
>> showcase-quality apps using Royale, encourages other people to give Royale
>> a try..
>>
>> I have trouble keeping up with assertions that seem at odds with each
>> other: "Ant is the devil!" "No, Maven is evil!" And maybe I am missing
>> something crucial, but I seem to be reading that it is possible to build a
>> stable version of Royale that we can release via Maven, while still
>> providing support for anyone who wants to build using ant.
>>
>> Is this so? Then why is that not the way to go?
>>
>> A
>>
>> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:31 PM Carlos Rovira 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hi all,
>>>
>>> if you care about this project, the PMC will need your help to know
>>> what's important to you about the "Release Process".
>>>
>>> Chris Dutz and I was working these days on release a new version. We
>>> finally give up due to the complexity of the process.
>>> The process involves to build in a CI Server with 13 steps and each one
>>> with some manual commands in CI server and in local machine. The process
>>> involves use Ant and Maven build systems, and that's what makes it so
>>> complicated.
>>>
>>> Maven is the the most widest and used build system for release as this
>>> statistics clearly states [1] and is perfectly prepared for CI servers and
>>> all the tooling needed nowadays for release process.
>>>
>>> Chris and I thinks that just using Maven can reduce the process to 2-3
>>> steps and release without much problem, and even release often (each month
>>> or each 2 months).
>>>
>>> So we're asking to not require Ant to be part of the release process,
>>> since we think is not needed.
>>>
>>> (This does NOT means remove Ant, we are talking just about release, and
>>> people using Ant will be able to continue using it as a build system, so
>>> don't be afraid about Ant support in the future!).
>>>
>>> We're afraid for this project due to this problem, so for this reason is
>>> important that you express what's important from your point of view as an
>>> Apache Royale user. So please express yourself in this thread and let us
>>> know what path should we take. It's important.
>>>
>>> We want to hear from you!
>>>
>>> Thanks community :)
>>>
>>> [1] https://twitter.com/ChristoferDutz/status/1240219399551934473
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>> http://about.me/carlosrovira
>>>
>>>
>>
>> --
>> Andrew Wetmore
>>
>> http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
> --
> 
> Jasen Martin
> 0424 984 955
> 
>
-- 
Shoichiro Takeshita
武下 祥一郎

Re: [Action Required] About how to release Apache Royale

[Jasen Martin]

hi All

Firstly, thankyou so much for everyone's effort, I know it has not been
easy!

I am no expert in either system. However, I do prefer using maven but have
nothing against ant.

What I am interested in is Royale moving forward with releases, what ever
helps Royale release early and often appeals to me the most.

Just my 2 cents worth.

Thanks again to everyone!
Jasen


Virus-free.
www.avast.com

<#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2>

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 9:31 PM Andrew Wetmore  wrote:

> I do not have the technical knowledge to provide an informed evaluation at
> the build level, so I will try to look through the lens of outcomes: what
> are we doing builds for?
>
> Maybe right now a large proportion of Royale users are people who like to
> tweak the source code and do their own builds locally. I do not think that
> is a user group that can sustain this project or make a difference in the
> world of application development. Our target audience is people who want a
> stable build they can use to build their own applications. The faster we
> can get stable builds out, the faster we can become available to that
> audience. The faster our user community grows, the better Royale becomes:
> the community exposes bugs, requests or provides emulations, creates
> showcase-quality apps using Royale, encourages other people to give Royale
> a try..
>
> I have trouble keeping up with assertions that seem at odds with each
> other: "Ant is the devil!" "No, Maven is evil!" And maybe I am missing
> something crucial, but I seem to be reading that it is possible to build a
> stable version of Royale that we can release via Maven, while still
> providing support for anyone who wants to build using ant.
>
> Is this so? Then why is that not the way to go?
>
> A
>
> On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:31 PM Carlos Rovira 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all,
>>
>> if you care about this project, the PMC will need your help to know
>> what's important to you about the "Release Process".
>>
>> Chris Dutz and I was working these days on release a new version. We
>> finally give up due to the complexity of the process.
>> The process involves to build in a CI Server with 13 steps and each one
>> with some manual commands in CI server and in local machine. The process
>> involves use Ant and Maven build systems, and that's what makes it so
>> complicated.
>>
>> Maven is the the most widest and used build system for release as this
>> statistics clearly states [1] and is perfectly prepared for CI servers and
>> all the tooling needed nowadays for release process.
>>
>> Chris and I thinks that just using Maven can reduce the process to 2-3
>> steps and release without much problem, and even release often (each month
>> or each 2 months).
>>
>> So we're asking to not require Ant to be part of the release process,
>> since we think is not needed.
>>
>> (This does NOT means remove Ant, we are talking just about release, and
>> people using Ant will be able to continue using it as a build system, so
>> don't be afraid about Ant support in the future!).
>>
>> We're afraid for this project due to this problem, so for this reason is
>> important that you express what's important from your point of view as an
>> Apache Royale user. So please express yourself in this thread and let us
>> know what path should we take. It's important.
>>
>> We want to hear from you!
>>
>> Thanks community :)
>>
>> [1] https://twitter.com/ChristoferDutz/status/1240219399551934473
>>
>> --
>>
>> http://about.me/carlosrovira
>>
>>
>
> --
> Andrew Wetmore
>
> http://cottage14.blogspot.com/
>
>
>
>
>

-- 

Jasen Martin
0424 984 955

Re: Preview of next blog example about working with graaphics

[Andrew Wetmore]

This is fun!

On Fri, Mar 27, 2020 at 6:32 AM Carlos Rovira 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> just want to show you latest tweet about the forthcoming Bog Example 14:
>
> https://twitter.com/ApacheRoyale/status/1243466432865861639
>
> Credits to
> Greg Dove for bringing the Flash graphics drawing API to our lives again ;)
>
> As always, feel free to share and retweet
>
> Best
>
> --
> Carlos Rovira
> http://about.me/carlosrovira
>
>

-- 
Andrew Wetmore

http://cottage14.blogspot.com/

Re: [Action Required] About how to release Apache Royale

[Andrew Wetmore]

I do not have the technical knowledge to provide an informed evaluation at
the build level, so I will try to look through the lens of outcomes: what
are we doing builds for?

Maybe right now a large proportion of Royale users are people who like to
tweak the source code and do their own builds locally. I do not think that
is a user group that can sustain this project or make a difference in the
world of application development. Our target audience is people who want a
stable build they can use to build their own applications. The faster we
can get stable builds out, the faster we can become available to that
audience. The faster our user community grows, the better Royale becomes:
the community exposes bugs, requests or provides emulations, creates
showcase-quality apps using Royale, encourages other people to give Royale
a try..

I have trouble keeping up with assertions that seem at odds with each
other: "Ant is the devil!" "No, Maven is evil!" And maybe I am missing
something crucial, but I seem to be reading that it is possible to build a
stable version of Royale that we can release via Maven, while still
providing support for anyone who wants to build using ant.

Is this so? Then why is that not the way to go?

A

On Wed, Mar 25, 2020 at 2:31 PM Carlos Rovira 
wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> if you care about this project, the PMC will need your help to know what's
> important to you about the "Release Process".
>
> Chris Dutz and I was working these days on release a new version. We
> finally give up due to the complexity of the process.
> The process involves to build in a CI Server with 13 steps and each one
> with some manual commands in CI server and in local machine. The process
> involves use Ant and Maven build systems, and that's what makes it so
> complicated.
>
> Maven is the the most widest and used build system for release as this
> statistics clearly states [1] and is perfectly prepared for CI servers and
> all the tooling needed nowadays for release process.
>
> Chris and I thinks that just using Maven can reduce the process to 2-3
> steps and release without much problem, and even release often (each month
> or each 2 months).
>
> So we're asking to not require Ant to be part of the release process,
> since we think is not needed.
>
> (This does NOT means remove Ant, we are talking just about release, and
> people using Ant will be able to continue using it as a build system, so
> don't be afraid about Ant support in the future!).
>
> We're afraid for this project due to this problem, so for this reason is
> important that you express what's important from your point of view as an
> Apache Royale user. So please express yourself in this thread and let us
> know what path should we take. It's important.
>
> We want to hear from you!
>
> Thanks community :)
>
> [1] https://twitter.com/ChristoferDutz/status/1240219399551934473
>
> --
>
> http://about.me/carlosrovira
>
>

-- 
Andrew Wetmore

http://cottage14.blogspot.com/

Re: [Action Required] About how to release Apache Royale

[Carlos Rovira]

Many thanks Serkan for take the time to respond here :)

El vie., 27 mar. 2020 a las 10:50, serkan ()
escribió:

> Hi,
>
> For over years I used ant for build and release in many of my projects
> than tried maven after. I spent time on gradle also - liked its
> architecture. I can say hat it is moving simple to complex in terms of
> usage through ant-maven-gradle way.
>
> Ant is really simple in terms of usage and to understand what is going on
> but you have to do lots of thing manually while maven has lots of build in
> features that makes life easier but bringing complexity.
>
> Especially artifact generation, central management of released artifacts
> and referenced library downloads are time and disk space consuming heavy
> tasks but you do not have to think about the nested references of libraries
> on the other side which in ant you have to consider.
>
> So as the result I think if the scheduling and the dependency management
> is not the issue, and if it is necessary I am not against mixed release
> cycle with ant and maven.
>
> If not than it is better to leave the decision to RM.
>
> The shortest way the one that you know I believe.
>
> for nice comparison :  https://www.baeldung.com/ant-maven-gradle
>
> Thanks,
> Serkan
>
> 25.03.2020 20:31 tarihinde Carlos Rovira yazdı:
>
> Hi all,
>
> if you care about this project, the PMC will need your help to know what's
> important to you about the "Release Process".
>
> Chris Dutz and I was working these days on release a new version. We
> finally give up due to the complexity of the process.
> The process involves to build in a CI Server with 13 steps and each one
> with some manual commands in CI server and in local machine. The process
> involves use Ant and Maven build systems, and that's what makes it so
> complicated.
>
> Maven is the the most widest and used build system for release as this
> statistics clearly states [1] and is perfectly prepared for CI servers and
> all the tooling needed nowadays for release process.
>
> Chris and I thinks that just using Maven can reduce the process to 2-3
> steps and release without much problem, and even release often (each month
> or each 2 months).
>
> So we're asking to not require Ant to be part of the release process,
> since we think is not needed.
>
> (This does NOT means remove Ant, we are talking just about release, and
> people using Ant will be able to continue using it as a build system, so
> don't be afraid about Ant support in the future!).
>
> We're afraid for this project due to this problem, so for this reason is
> important that you express what's important from your point of view as an
> Apache Royale user. So please express yourself in this thread and let us
> know what path should we take. It's important.
>
> We want to hear from you!
>
> Thanks community :)
>
> [1] https://twitter.com/ChristoferDutz/status/1240219399551934473
>
> --
>
> http://about.me/carlosrovira
>
>
>

-- 
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira

Re: [Action Required] About how to release Apache Royale

[serkan]

Hi,

For over years I used ant for build and release in many of my projects 
than tried maven after. I spent time on gradle also - liked its 
architecture. I can say hat it is moving simple to complex in terms of 
usage through ant-maven-gradle way.


Ant is really simple in terms of usage and to understand what is going 
on but you have to do lots of thing manually while maven has lots of 
build in features that makes life easier but bringing complexity.


Especially artifact generation, central management of released artifacts 
and referenced library downloads are time and disk space consuming heavy 
tasks but you do not have to think about the nested references of 
libraries on the other side which in ant you have to consider.


So as the result I think if the scheduling and the dependency management 
is not the issue, and if it is necessary I am not against mixed release 
cycle with ant and maven.


If not than it is better to leave the decision to RM.

The shortest way the one that you know I believe.

for nice comparison : https://www.baeldung.com/ant-maven-gradle

Thanks,
Serkan

25.03.2020 20:31 tarihinde Carlos Rovira yazdı:

Hi all,

if you care about this project, the PMC will need your help to know 
what's important to you about the "Release Process".


Chris Dutz and I was working these days on release a new version. We 
finally give up due to the complexity of the process.
The process involves to build in a CI Server with 13 steps and each 
one with some manual commands in CI server and in local machine. The 
process involves use Ant and Maven build systems, and that's what 
makes it so complicated.


Maven is the the most widest and used build system for release as this 
statistics clearly states [1] and is perfectly prepared for CI servers 
and all the tooling needed nowadays for release process.


Chris and I thinks that just using Maven can reduce the process to 2-3 
steps and release without much problem, and even release often (each 
month or each 2 months).


So we're asking to not require Ant to be part of the release process, 
since we think is not needed.


(This does NOT means remove Ant, we are talking just about release, 
and people using Ant will be able to continue using it as a build 
system, so don't be afraid about Ant support in the future!).


We're afraid for this project due to this problem, so for this reason 
is important that you express what's important from your point of view 
as an Apache Royale user. So please express yourself in this thread 
and let us know what path should we take. It's important.


We want to hear from you!

Thanks community :)

[1] https://twitter.com/ChristoferDutz/status/1240219399551934473

--

http://about.me/carlosrovira

Preview of next blog example about working with graaphics

[Carlos Rovira]

Hi all,

just want to show you latest tweet about the forthcoming Bog Example 14:

https://twitter.com/ApacheRoyale/status/1243466432865861639

Credits to
Greg Dove for bringing the Flash graphics drawing API to our lives again ;)

As always, feel free to share and retweet

Best

-- 
Carlos Rovira
http://about.me/carlosrovira