Re: Lint problem with KAM.cf

2021-08-30 Thread Mike Grau
+1 Same issue here.


On 8/30/21 14:31, Rick Cooper wrote:
> This  have been going on a while but I haven't had time to addresses.
> When the KAM rules are updated I see the following lint warning
> warn: rules: error: unknown eval 'short_url' for __KAM_SHORT
> 
> Near as I can tell I am running the latest DecodeShortURLs.pm but the site
> says it's being merged directly into SA. If I change short_url to
> short_url_tests the error goes away but I haven't run it down in the code. I
> am running SA 3.4.6 and am wondering if there is a new modual for
> DecodeShortURLs that I am missing somewhere?
> 
> Rick Cooper
> 


Re: Which Net::DSN for SpamAssassin-3.4.1

2016-12-12 Thread Mike Grau

> 
> Net::DNS has had some very good but rather weakly-controlled improvement
> recently, including an API change that got rolled back, so the latest
> (1.06) is probably the best choice (it's what I use.) However, all
> recent versions cause a problem with the released version of SA. The
> patch for that is minor:
> 
> https://bz.apache.org/SpamAssassin/show_bug.cgi?id=7223
> https://svn.apache.org/viewvc?view=revision=1691992
> 
> --- lib/Mail/SpamAssassin/DnsResolver.pm.orig2015/07/20 18:23:18   
> 1691991
> +++ lib/Mail/SpamAssassin/DnsResolver.pm2015/07/20 18:24:481691992
> @@ -592,6 +592,9 @@
>};
> 
>if ($packet) {
> +# RD flag needs to be set explicitly since Net::DNS 1.01, Bug 7223   
> +$packet->header->rd(1);
> +
># my $udp_payload_size = $self->{res}->udppacketsize;
>  my $udp_payload_size = $self->{conf}->{dns_options}->{edns};
>  if ($udp_payload_size && $udp_payload_size > 512) {


Okay, thanks for the info! -- Mike


Which Net::DSN for SpamAssassin-3.4.1

2016-12-09 Thread Mike Grau
Hello all

I'm confused ... what is the "recommended" version of Net::DNS to use
with an unpatched SpamAssassin-3.4.1? Or are there patches I ought to
apply for, say, Net::DNS 1.06?

Thanks! -- Mike G.


Re: ancient perl versions

2014-12-05 Thread Mike Grau
On 12/05/2014 09:38 AM, Noel Butler wrote:
 pffft
 
 I see no problem, as like most developers if you cant reproduce it, then
 its nothing to bother about, after all this time 2 ppl dont like a font
 or whatever, your pissing up the wrong tree if you think I have a care
 factor about changing things when i cant reproduce it. time to move
 along ...

You're reproducing it for me ... e-mails from you have a hard-to-read
small font here also. Not from anyone else - just you.



Re: Hacked Wordpress sites Cryptolocker

2014-09-05 Thread Mike Grau

 I'm testing versions that insist on .php and am getting very good
 results.  Thanks to the OP for pointing this out!

I'm also getting WP phishing urls that end in /, like so:

 ... /wp-includes/logs/

Presumably, this is the equivalent of /wp-includes/logs/index.php?

-- Mike G


Re: Hacked Wordpress sites Cryptolocker

2014-09-05 Thread Mike Grau
 I'm also getting WP phishing urls that end in /, like so:

 ... /wp-includes/logs/
 
 spample plz?
 

http://pastebin.com/yBLqTrYP


Re: refusing to untaint

2014-02-27 Thread Mike Grau

 Please open a new bug.  I'll try and make it a blocker for 3.4.1 if you
 open it ASAP.

Done. https://issues.apache.org/SpamAssassin/show_bug.cgi?id=7020


Re: refusing to untaint

2014-02-27 Thread Mike Grau

 
 Please open a new bug.  I'll try and make it a blocker for 3.4.1 if you
 open it ASAP.
 
 Done. https://issues.apache.org/SpamAssassin/show_bug.cgi?id=7020
 

For the list - the error appears to have been caused from an old .pre
file that was left in /etc/mail/spamassassin. Removing the .pre files
and re-installing SA eliminated the warning.

No bug. A configuration issue here.

-- Mike G.


refusing to untaint

2014-02-26 Thread Mike Grau
Hello,

I've installed SpamAssassin-3.4.0 on a couple of machines via the
tarball and

  perl Makefile.PL
  make
  make test
  make install

When I run a message through spamassassin -t it gives this warning from
Util.pm

  Feb 26 12:19:27.028 [17527] warn: util: refusing to untaint
  suspicious path: ${exec_prefix}/lib

This is perl 5, version 18, subversion 1 (v5.18.1) built for
x86_64-linux-thread-multi

I'm guessing that the variable ${exec_prefix} should already have been
evaluated? Can someone tell me what might be the problem?

Thanks!
-- Mike


Re: refusing to untaint

2014-02-26 Thread Mike Grau

 Any chance you can try the very small patch in
 https://issues.apache.org/SpamAssassin/show_bug.cgi?id=7015 and see if
 it's related?

Still the same error after patching:
Feb 26 15:24:07.130 [20964] warn: util: refusing to untaint suspicious
path: ${exec_prefix}/lib


Huh? Variable length lookbehind?

2013-12-27 Thread Mike Grau

I have a problem with a rule on a newly installed relay on which --lint
throws a warning on an old local rule, squawking about Variable length
lookbehind  not implemented. I simplified the rule trying to discover
the problem and it seems to be with the /i modifier:

This rule does _not_ provoke the warning:

  /(?!Best )\bRegards,/

while this does,

  /(?!Best )\bRegards,/i

  warn: config: invalid regexp for rule MY_CLOSE:
  /(?!Best )\bRegards,/i: Variable length lookbehind not implemented
  in regex m/(?i)(?!Best )\bRegards,/

This is with perl 5.18.1 (openSUSE 13.1)

On other boxes  - with perl 5.10.0 and perl 5.16.2 - there is no problem
and I fail to see that there is any variable length in either regex.

Writing the rule like so with an apparently useless /i modifier allows
the regex to pass the lint check:

  /(?![Bb][Ee][Ss][Tt] )\b[Rr][Ee][Gg][Aa][Rr][Dd][Ss],/i

Can somebody tell me what the problem might be?

Thanks! -- Mike G.


Re: Huh? Variable length lookbehind?

2013-12-27 Thread Mike Grau
 
 The 'st' is apparently equivalent to some ligature or some other UTF-8
 character, so you end up with an alternation of two different lengths,
 which can't be used for look-behinds.
 
 Use a character set modifier /a to restrict the matching to ASCII rules.
 Search for Character set modifiers in the perlre man page.
 
 So something like:
   /(?!Best )\bRegards,/aai
 should do with perl = 5.14 .
 
 Better yet, avoid lookbehinds.
 
   Mark
 

Many thanks Marc - both suggestions solve my problem.

-- Mike


Re: X-Relay-Countries

2013-02-12 Thread Mike Grau

 
 Hmm  I would do something like this (untested):
 
 header RELAY_NOT_US X-Relay-Countries =~ /\b(?!US)[A-Z]{2}\b/
 

I've had to use, IIRC.
X-Relay-Countries =~ /\b(?!US|XX)([A-Z]{2})\b/


Question about TRACKER_ID

2013-02-08 Thread Mike Grau
Hello folks.

In 20_body_tests.cf (SA 3.3.2) there is this rule:

body TRACKER_ID   /^[a-z0-9]{6,24}[-_a-z0-9]{12,36}[a-z0-9{6,24}\s*\z/is

What is the \z in the regex?

This rule matches . Is that as
intended?

Thanks!
-- Mike


Re: Question about TRACKER_ID

2013-02-08 Thread Mike Grau
Martin Gregorie wrote:
 On Fri, 2013-02-08 at 13:26 -0600, Mike Grau wrote:
 Hello folks.

 In 20_body_tests.cf (SA 3.3.2) there is this rule:

 body TRACKER_ID   /^[a-z0-9]{6,24}[-_a-z0-9]{12,36}[a-z0-9{6,24}\s*\z/is

 What is the \z in the regex?

 According to the O'Reilly Camel Book, Programming Perl, \z matches the
 last character in a string but offers no additional help. Many

Thanks Martin,

But, is that not \Z (upper case)?


Re: KB_FAKED_THE_BAT

2012-05-14 Thread Mike Grau


 # grep Date: HEADERS | od -a
 000   D   a   t   e   :  sp  ht   T   h   u   ,  sp   3  sp   M   a
 020   y  sp   2   0   1   2  sp   1   6   :   5   3   :   5   9  sp
 040   +   0   7   0   0  nl
 046vi H*

 This has been Russian language spam (charset koi8-r) with various
 flavors of X-Mailer: The Bat!
 
 What version of SpamAssassin are you running?  Here's a note from that
 rule's definition (rulesrc/sandbox/kb/20_header.cf):
 
 # NOTE  Depends on some header rule code fixes for 3.3.x to remove
 #   the leading space that was showing up in header rules.  For
 #   3.2.x releases the pattern must be changed to /^ \t/.
 
 Karsten:  Maybe change it to   /^ ?\t/   as a workaround?
 (Yes, I know we've stopped supporting sa3.2.x)

In 3.3.2
/var/lib/spamassassin/3.003002/updates_spamassassin_org
# grep  __KB_DATE_CONTAINS_TAB 72_active.cf

header   __KB_DATE_CONTAINS_TAB  Date:raw =~ /^\t



KB_FAKED_THE_BAT

2012-05-03 Thread Mike Grau
Hello all,

Just an FYI ...

The meta rule in 72_active.cf KB_FAKED_THE_BAT is getting circumvented
here because the meta rule component

 header   __KB_DATE_CONTAINS_TAB  Date:raw =~ /^\t

is being evaded by spam that now has a space character before the tab:

# grep Date: HEADERS | od -a
000   D   a   t   e   :  sp  ht   T   h   u   ,  sp   3  sp   M   a
020   y  sp   2   0   1   2  sp   1   6   :   5   3   :   5   9  sp
040   +   0   7   0   0  nl
046vi H*

This has been Russian language spam (charset koi8-r) with various
flavors of X-Mailer: The Bat!

-- Mike G.


Re: RP_MATCHES_RCVD

2011-07-28 Thread Mike Grau

On 07/28/2011 09:28 AM the voices made RW write:

There seems to be a consensus that SPF and DKIM passes aren't worth
significant scores. So how is it that RP_MATCHES_RCVD, scores -1.2 when
it just a circumstantial version of what SPF does explicitly.

For me it's hitting more spam that ham, and what's worse, it's mostly
hitting low-scoring freemail spam. Is it just me that's seeing this, or
is there maybe  some kind of bias the test corpora?




+1

RP_MATCHES_RCVD hits tons of (snowshoe?) spam here. Different senders 
different IPs, but often the same /16 or /24 networks. I had some local 
meta rules that used T_RP_MATCHES_RCVD, but evidently the name was 
changed to RP_MATCHES_RCVD and the spam started flying in.




FPs on FH_FAKE_RCVD_LINE_B

2010-06-29 Thread Mike Grau
Hello,

I'm getting a lot of FPs from FH_FAKE_RCVD_LINE_B RCVD line looks faked
(B) since the default score for this rule is a whopping 4.000.

It's matching on this header:

Received: from 68.103.178.110 by webmail.east.cox.net; Mon, 28 Jun 2010
18:02:23 -0400

This rule matches the ISP Cox Communication residential customers using
their webmail service. For now I've made a rule negating
FH_FAKE_RCVD_LINE_B RCVD for Cox, but will someone educate me as to what
it is that makes this header look faked?

For reference, here's the (probably wrapped) rule:
Received =~
/from\s*\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\.\d{1,3}\s*by\s*[a-z0-9.]{4,24}\.[a-z0-9.]{4,36}\.(?:com|net|org|biz);\s*[SMTWF].{2},\s*\d{1,2}\s*[JFMASOND].{2,5}\s*\d{4}\s*\d{2}:\d{2}:\d{2}\s*[-+]\d{4}/i

Thanks!
-- Mike


Re: FPs on FH_FAKE_RCVD_LINE_B

2010-06-29 Thread Mike Grau

 
 I believe the issue is that there are no brackets around the IP.  The
 line should look like this:
 
 Received: from [68.103.178.110] by webmail.east.cox.net; Mon, 28 Jun 2010 
 18:02:23 -0400
 
 

Ah, right! Thanks!

( Drat, sorry about the reply to poster rather than list. )





Re: [sa] Re: Yahoo/URL spam

2010-03-24 Thread Mike Grau

On 3/23/2010 2:49 PM the voices made Charles Gregory write:

On Tue, 23 Mar 2010, Alex wrote:

This is what I have:
/^[^a-z]{0,10}(http:\/\/|www\.)(\w+\.)+(com|net|org|biz|cn|ru)\/?[^
]{0,20}[a-z]{0,10}$/msi


My bad. I got an option wrong. Please remove the 'm' above.
I always get it backwards. According to 'man perlre' (the definitive
resource for SA regexes!) the 'm' makes '^' match every newline!
We want it to only match the beginning of the body.

So just remove it, and, as noted by others, add the '^' that was
missing... like so

... ]{0,20}[^a-z]{0,10}$/si


Hello,

You might want to change  (\w+\.)+  to  ([\w-]+\.)+  to account for 
domains like polster-jj.de


-- MG


Re: newbie: configure SA to reject spam

2010-01-13 Thread Mike Grau

tonjg wrote:


On 01/13/2010 07:22 PM, tonjg wrote:

thanks for your response Ned.
your last line describes exactly what I want to do - reject mail, do it at
the smtp stage in sendmail  - but I don't know how to achieve this.



Call spamassassin from within a milter. I use Mimedefang, but there are 
others.


Re: Rule to catch PO#

2008-12-04 Thread Mike Grau
On 12/04/2008 01:49 Ray Jette wrote:

 A lot of these rules look good but not appear to work for what I am
 trying to do. Sorry about all the trouble. I'm not realy that good at
 regular expressions but I am learning. Here are some real examples from
 my mail server:
 
* PO1786
* PO 42111
* PO# 314980
* PO#36605
* PO 484579-0
* PO:458121
* PO: 6718972-1
* PO's #47509
* PO#v156-2008-003
* PO-121556
* PO's 47509
 
 Some of these are million's of dollers worth of orders. I can't loose
 these. I am trying to create a negative scoring rule. Thanks for any
 help you can provide. Please let me know if you need any more information.
 
 Ray Jette
 

This is pretty general:

/\bPO[#' sv:-]{0,7}[\d-]+/i

Maybe it would hit occasionally on spam, but so what? You can't afford
to loose millions of dollars of orders; you can afford to lower the
score on what might prove to be spam once in a great while.


Re: Rulesemporium

2007-07-12 Thread Mike Grau




If your IP is blocked, for whatever reason, perhaps a proxy would help 
you until your IP is unblocked.
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rulesemporium.com%2Flangpair=fr%7Cen 


I bet the 'donate' link would help :-)



Hmm,  I doubt it, seeing that  SARE has received 3 donations in 2007,  
$90 all total  (yet 31k unique ips pull rules from the site every week.. 
ugh).  Anyone want to sell  us a VPS on a DDoS proof network for $90?   ;)


Ka-ching! Ka-ching ka-ching! Hey, it worked here; I'm in. A pay-per-view 
site, eh? ;)


Three donations ... that's pathetic.

-- Mike


Re: Rulesemporium

2007-07-11 Thread Mike Grau


sarcasm A little misinformation tossed to spammers isn't bad here. I 
hear there's a mirror in Afghanistan too. And by all means.. when you 
browse the site.. click the stop button in your browser between it's 
loading each image on each page, then click the start button again. It's 
tricky, but if you do it just right, you can browse the whole site 
before the IDS blocks you. /sarcasm


The rulesemporium site is great, and much thanks goes to the ninjas who 
operate it and write the rules, forcing spammers to read harry potter 
books.


Ken



Yes, the rulesemporium site _is_ great. As are the rules themselves. 
That's why I'd like to use my browser and read just one page. Right now 
all I get (and this is my first attempt to browse the site since 
yesterday) is Waiting for www.rulesemporium.com


I'm not talking about rules_du_jour or sa-update or seeing how fast I 
can manually click stop or cycle through pages with my browser. I just 
want to go to the one page I have bookmarked. Isn't that the point of 
having a website? Allowing people to view your content? I'd say the DDOS 
is still very effective one way or another. My sympathies to the 
rulesemporium folks. I wish I could help, but I'm just some slob who 
wants to view their website.


Still waiting ... Mike


Re: Rulesemporium

2007-07-11 Thread Mike Grau




If your IP is blocked, for whatever reason, perhaps a proxy would help 
you until your IP is unblocked.
http://translate.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.rulesemporium.com%2Flangpair=fr%7Cen 


I bet the 'donate' link would help :-)

Ken



Okay, done. We'll see if it helps.

Mike


Re: Rulesemporium

2007-07-10 Thread Mike Grau


Ok, so the word is that the telia link is saturated with traffic from 
the ddos yet..   I'd like some traceroutes to www.rulesemporium.com for 
anyone that is having problems.



# traceroute www.rulesemporium.com
traceroute to www.rulesemporium.com (209.200.135.151), 30 hops max, 40 byte 
packets
 1  a004001.kcc.state.ks.us (192.168.4.1)  0.437 ms   0.099 ms   0.106 ms
 2  165.201.4.162  0.763 ms   0.813 ms   0.746 ms
 3  165.201.85.201  0.870 ms   0.677 ms   0.780 ms
 4  165.201.60.3  1.032 ms   1.149 ms   0.929 ms
 5  165.201.254.25  2.071 ms   1.563 ms   2.457 ms
 6  165.201.254.10  2.441 ms   2.306 ms   2.260 ms
 7  wsip-68-106-191-61.ks.ok.cox.net (68.106.191.61)  3.365 ms   3.314 ms   
3.614 ms
 8  ip70-183-65-49.ks.ks.cox.net (70.183.65.49)  11.048 ms   10.998 ms   12.317 
ms
 9  wichdsrj01-ge704.0.rd.ks.cox.net (70.183.71.25)  12.517 ms   15.284 ms   
14.833 ms
10  mtc3dsrj02-ge710.0.rd.ok.cox.net (68.1.0.109)  23.132 ms   22.519 ms   
23.396 ms
11  ae-2-52.bbr2.Chicago1.Level3.net (4.68.101.33)  57.604 ms ae-2-56.bbr2.Chicago1.Level3.net (4.68.101.161)  55.696 ms 
ae-2-52.bbr2.Chicago1.Level3.net (4.68.101.33)  53.787 ms

12  as-1-0.mp1.Miami1.Level3.net (64.159.0.1)  85.394 ms   85.578 ms   85.523 ms
13  so-6-0-0.gar1.Miami1.Level3.net (4.68.112.42)  85.479 ms   84.752 ms 
so-7-0-0.gar1.Miami1.Level3.net (4.68.112.46)  79.211 ms
14  * * *
15  * * *
16  * * *
17  * * *
18  * * *
19  * * *
20  * * *
21  * * *
22  * * *
23  * * *
24  * * *
25  * * *
26  * * *
27  * * *
28  * * *
29  * * *
30  * * *


Re: Rulesemporium

2007-07-09 Thread Mike Grau

On 07/09/2007 04:01 PM the voices made Joe Zitnik write:

I can't get here:
http://www.rulesemporium.com/rules
Is rulesemporium having issues again?


I can rarely get there (via a browser). So rarely the site is almost 
useless.


Re: Catching and stopping 419 spam

2007-05-24 Thread Mike Grau


I'd like to see other people's states as well. I'm using it to block and 
my 419 spam is almost completely gone. But I'm wondering what other 
people's experiences are.




FPs here on emails that have been forwarded and have email addresses in 
the message body. These have all been from cox.net which is listed in 
FreeMail.pm. cox.net does not offer free email; you have to be a cox 
customer.


-- Mike G


Re: SARE ADULT easily worked around?

2007-05-01 Thread Mike Grau
Hum.  Most of us seem to have been listwashed off the porn lists, so it 
is kinda hard to adjust the rules!


We used to be plagued by pornographic spam, usually obfuscated. 
Unexpectedly, to me anyway, greylisting virtually eliminated it.


-- Mike G


Spam or something else?

2006-10-18 Thread Mike Grau
Hello.

(sendmail-mimdefang-spamassassin)

Since this past weekend I been seeing in the mail log:

   possible SMTP attack: command=HELO/EHLO, count=3

These used to be very rare, but since Saturday there are a great many
(for us). For the past few hours, I've been firewalling the offending
IPs with iptables as they occur, but so far the supply of IP addresses
seems endless.

The IPs do seem weighted towards a couple of ISPs in Israel though:

  No. of ip addresses:

  KOREA, REPUBLIC OF: 7
  RUSSIAN FEDERATION: 12
  GERMANY: 17
  CHINA: 20
  UNITED STATES: 21
  CZECH REPUBLIC: 47
  ISRAEL: 93

I don't think any of these messages have actually made it as far as
getting to SA, but can someone enlighten me as to what this is?

-- Mike G


3.1.6, local scores, and sa-update

2006-10-05 Thread Mike Grau
Since upgrading to SpamAssassin 3.1.6, running sa-update yields

# sa-update
config: warning: score set for non-existent rule BAYES_50
config: warning: score set for non-existent rule BAYES_05
config: warning: score set for non-existent rule BAYES_00
config: warning: score set for non-existent rule BAYES_40
config: warning: score set for non-existent rule BAYES_60
config: warning: score set for non-existent rule BAYES_95
config: warning: score set for non-existent rule BAYES_99
config: warning: score set for non-existent rule BAYES_20
config: warning: score set for non-existent rule BAYES_80
.
.
.
error: lint check of current site config failed, cannot continue.


I assume this is because sa-update now include local site config in
sa-update lint checks.

Previously I've set some custom scores for stock rules in
/etc/mail/spamassassin/whatever.cf
without changing the rule definitions or descriptions. Can I not do this
and need to define the body BAYES_99 and describe BAYES_99 in
wahtever.cf also, or is this a bug in sa-update?

Thanks!
-- Mike


Rule advice please

2005-02-28 Thread Mike Grau
Hello.
Following discussions on this list about obfuscating words to avoid spam 
detection, and not being a ninja, I'd like some feedback about the 
possible efficacy or pitfalls on rules like the following.

As noted in other discussions, words with scrambled letters between the 
first and last letter can be caught by checking the permutations of the 
letters:

 /\ba(?:ess|ess|ses|ses)s\b/i   -   finds permutations of asses
	
However, this quickly gets unweildy when building a regex checking all 
the permutations of more than 5 letters. Couldn't one use a regex that 
simply looks for the letters used and uses a negative look-ahead 
assertation to  eliminate other words of the same length by first 
running the expresssion through a dictionary of words and phrases. For 
example, a rule for the word exploited after run through a dictionary 
of 617709 words and phrases:

/\b(?!exploited|elliptoid|epitoxoid)e[xploite]{7}d\b/i
or perhaps an additional rule for added letters expploited, etc.
  /\b(?!epileptoid)e[xploite]{8}d\b/i
  /\be[xploite]{9}d\b/i
or combined:
  /\b(?!exploited|elliptoid|epitoxoid|epileptoid)e[xploite]{7,9}d\b/i
Usually the obfusticated word still resembles the word with the meaning 
the spammer wants to convey. I doubt the spammer wants to use the word 
elliptoid, and anyway, the idea is to use these rules as non-scoring 
rules for use with meta rules.

(OBFU_EXPLOIT + RULE1 + RULE2 + RULE3)  1   etc.
or whatever. Thoughts?  Other samples:
  subject =~ /\b(?!cartoon|croatan|carroon)c[arto]{5}n\b/i
  subject =~ /\b(?!downloadable)d[ownladb]{10}e\b/i
  subject =~ /\b(?!dripping)d[ripn]{6}g\b/i
  subject =~ /\b(?!ejaculating|enunciating)e[jacultin]{9}g\b/i
Of course, you could add 1 and 0 in the character set if the word 
contained a o or l, and the like.

-- Mike


Re: Rule advice please

2005-02-28 Thread Mike Grau
SNIP
   subject =~ /\b(?!cartoon|croatan|carroon)c[arto]{5}n\b/i
   subject =~ /\b(?!downloadable)d[ownladb]{10}e\b/i
   subject =~ /\b(?!dripping)d[ripn]{6}g\b/i
   subject =~ /\b(?!ejaculating|enunciating)e[jacultin]{9}g\b/i
You can't use rules like this. The pattern can matches your first
example. Similarly drrg matches the third line.
Yes, but, using meta rules for scoring and assuming we're not talking 
about binary data, if I don't want

  (HOT  DRIPPING  WOMEN)
should I want
  (HOT  DRRG  WOMEN)
?
I wouldn't score this high enough to reject the message by itself, but 
when combined with all the other SA rules might it not be a indicator 
worthy of some scoring?

-- Mike