Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
I Agree a new site for Tapestry Products ^_^ +1. -- View this message in context: http://tapestry.1045711.n5.nabble.com/Should-Tapestry-phone-home-tp3207776p3215946.html Sent from the Tapestry - User mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Another good reason to not do this is if the server that was being reported to dies or malfunctions, it could prevent startup or otherwise cause problems. I've had similar problems with the XML libraries doing validation to DTDs that don't exist anymore due to domain name registration issues. Norman Franke Answering Service for Directors, Inc. www.myasd.com On Oct 11, 2010, at 2:27 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote: On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko > wrote: We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it. Agreed. -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
On Oct 12, 2010, at 5:10 PM, Igor Drobiazko wrote: We should not forget that some companies have policies which forbbid to provide any details on used technologies. These companies will be pissed of if they are mentioned on any statistics. This is clear to everybody, that's the why we explicitly said: it must be on a volunteer basis. Anyway, here we need to make a distinction between on one side the tools to obtain the statistics (something that your company will appreciate ...) and the kind of data (this is related to the first thread by Josh), and, on the other side, the communication of some the result to the community (for example, Tapestry users ++, no name, no version, no sensitive information). Assuming that there is the will to help the community, what would be a suitable tool to realize that ? Note that a metric on the diffusion of Tapestry should count also all the (hopefully) thousand developers that actually use it, not only big (medium) companies; for those, I guess there's no problem in communicating any of the statistics that can be used on the Tapestry side to improve it. For "big" companies, there is a special page to register to on the official site (if they want to), but apparently they do not account so much for the community needs -- Alessio Ps: if companies are scared of competitors knowing that they are using Tapestry, they should know that someone can more or less easily "spot" this fact just looking at the source code of their pages. On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Christophe Cordenier < christophe.corden...@gmail.com> wrote: It's dynamic, you will have tags, most popular, most downloaded, ... That makes contribution process alive 2010/10/12 Ulrich Stärk : And what exactly is the benefit over a wiki page where a user may register their project (which we already have)? On 12.10.2010 15:02, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote: On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:39:03 -0300, Christophe Cordenier wrote: My two cents, new web site will be coming soon (I hope so) why not having a small dynamic application for multiple types of registration (third-party contributions, Tapestry users (in production) ...) I think this is exactly the approach we should use. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org -- Regards, Christophe Cordenier. Committer on Apache Tapestry 5 Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org -- Best regards, Igor Drobiazko http://tapestry5.de
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
We should not forget that some companies have policies which forbbid to provide any details on used technologies. These companies will be pissed of if they are mentioned on any statistics. On Tue, Oct 12, 2010 at 4:33 PM, Christophe Cordenier < christophe.corden...@gmail.com> wrote: > It's dynamic, you will have tags, most popular, most downloaded, ... > That makes contribution process alive > > 2010/10/12 Ulrich Stärk : > > And what exactly is the benefit over a wiki page where a user may > register > > their project (which we already have)? > > > > On 12.10.2010 15:02, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote: > >> > >> On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:39:03 -0300, Christophe Cordenier > >> wrote: > >> > >>> My two cents, new web site will be coming soon (I hope so) why not > >>> having a small dynamic application for multiple types of registration > >>> (third-party contributions, Tapestry users (in production) ...) > >> > >> I think this is exactly the approach we should use. > >> > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > > > > > > > -- > Regards, > Christophe Cordenier. > > Committer on Apache Tapestry 5 > Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > -- Best regards, Igor Drobiazko http://tapestry5.de
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
It's dynamic, you will have tags, most popular, most downloaded, ... That makes contribution process alive 2010/10/12 Ulrich Stärk : > And what exactly is the benefit over a wiki page where a user may register > their project (which we already have)? > > On 12.10.2010 15:02, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote: >> >> On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:39:03 -0300, Christophe Cordenier >> wrote: >> >>> My two cents, new web site will be coming soon (I hope so) why not >>> having a small dynamic application for multiple types of registration >>> (third-party contributions, Tapestry users (in production) ...) >> >> I think this is exactly the approach we should use. >> > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > -- Regards, Christophe Cordenier. Committer on Apache Tapestry 5 Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
And what exactly is the benefit over a wiki page where a user may register their project (which we already have)? On 12.10.2010 15:02, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote: On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:39:03 -0300, Christophe Cordenier wrote: My two cents, new web site will be coming soon (I hope so) why not having a small dynamic application for multiple types of registration (third-party contributions, Tapestry users (in production) ...) I think this is exactly the approach we should use. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Any such system should be opt-in, not opt-out. We are all curious who uses T5 and for what purposes, but I know the organization I work for wouldn't appreciate that kind of intentional leakage. Thanks, mrg - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
On Tue, 12 Oct 2010 06:39:03 -0300, Christophe Cordenier wrote: My two cents, new web site will be coming soon (I hope so) why not having a small dynamic application for multiple types of registration (third-party contributions, Tapestry users (in production) ...) I think this is exactly the approach we should use. -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
One more idea from my side. This could be done as extension (similar to hibernate support) that would provide statistic's for page owner with checkbox: send my anonymized data to tapestry.apache.org and separate page on which user could configure what is send -- View this message in context: http://tapestry-users.832.n2.nabble.com/Should-Tapestry-phone-home-tp5623806p5626454.html Sent from the Tapestry Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
My two cents, new web site will be coming soon (I hope so) why not having a small dynamic application for multiple types of registration (third-party contributions, Tapestry users (in production) ...) Christophe. 2010/10/12 Andrus Adamchik : > Exactly. I can envision a lot of pissed of users (myself included). PR > disaster and people walking away from the framework is probably what will > happen. > > The voluntary registration idea floated in this thread is much more honest. > Not sure how to implement it in the context of Tapestry though. > > Andrus > > On Oct 11, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote: > >> On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko >> wrote: >> >>> We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it. >> >> Agreed. >> >> -- >> Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo >> Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and >> instructor >> Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. >> http://www.arsmachina.com.br > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > -- Regards, Christophe Cordenier. Committer on Apache Tapestry 5 Co-creator of wooki @wookicentral.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Exactly. I can envision a lot of pissed of users (myself included). PR disaster and people walking away from the framework is probably what will happen. The voluntary registration idea floated in this thread is much more honest. Not sure how to implement it in the context of Tapestry though. Andrus On Oct 11, 2010, at 9:27 PM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote: > On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko > wrote: > >> We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it. > > Agreed. > > -- > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo > Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and > instructor > Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. > http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
> It would be interesting to know how many apps are running in the wild, > and details about how many pages & components & services, JVM > version, and OS and hardware configuration. Moodle (the learning management system) is a complete system not a framework and what they do have is a "register my moodle instance" button. This button is visible from the very first login as an admin into the system - and of course you have to login as an admin to set it all up. When you decide that you like to register, it allows you to choose a public name for your installation, whether to send the url, what is a contact address etc etc. This has enabled Moodle to be aware of the thousands implementations of the system and inform them of critical patches sometimes even before a public announcements. I see a way how this can be done with Tapestry - by creating an admin component where you would set-up some configuration data (which then might be stored in configuration files or configuration database). This component could have options to setup resource path filtering, aliases, production mode, hibernate configuration data... and also a button to "phone home" - but only once to register your instance in some registration database with option to be informed when new versions come out or when new security patches come out. Tapestry could monitor itself and for example this register button could pop out if something is drastically different than before - much longer start up time, new version of some included library, etc. It should be easy to use if you want, just a single dependency in maven. smime.p7s Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
+1 for not do it by default. But I give +1 if it could be additional library added if someone wishes to contribute. As for how it could work my proposal is to put some public page on tapestry project where anyone could check site some aggregated stats. In library service module there should be options that could set what is being uploaded to tapestry public repository. In return for that data, tapestry could send emails with information about updates or important security patches. Regards Michał -- View this message in context: http://tapestry-users.832.n2.nabble.com/Should-Tapestry-phone-home-tp5623806p5625727.html Sent from the Tapestry Users mailing list archive at Nabble.com. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
yeah... not the kind of monitoring I had in mind ;) The generator meta tag is there, and I stumbled across this handy tool: http://www.gigablast.com/search?k5b=640731&dt=generator&q=generator%3A%22apache+tapestry%22 I've built a couple sites using Drupal and they have a page which enumerates the modules you are using with the versions you have vs. what's available and whether the new version addresses a security issue etc... There might be room for a Tapestry Module repository that provided similar functionality... Josh On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:49 AM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > This came up during my training class this week. > > What would be the repercussions if Tapestry included a start-up filter > that "reported" the application startup back to some central location, > so that we could get some idea of where and how Tapestry is being > used? Obviously, this would be documented, in such a way that it > would be easy to turn off for the privacy-minded. > > It would be interesting to know how many apps are running in the wild, > and details about how many pages & components & services, JVM > version, and OS and hardware configuration. > > Asking people to do this manually is a non-starter, I'm constantly > surprised by people telling me they are using Tapestry in visible > places. > > Thoughts? > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Alessio Gambi > Date: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:18 AM > Subject: Re: Monitoring/statistics > To: Tapestry users > > > Hi, > Please think also about some way to obtain (meta) statistics about > Tapestry itself. Something that can be used to track how many people > are actually using tapestry as platform for their applications. > > -- Alessio > > On 11-ott-2010, at 18:05, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > >> I've been thinking about this kind of thing as well; having a JMX bean >> for each Page instance and tracking number of render requests, number >> of event requests, number of ajax even requests, and ellapsed >> processing time for each. >> >> Obviously, it's a bit late for 5.2 ... it may be time to cut a 5.3 dev >> branch off the current 5.2 code base. >> >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Josh Canfield >> wrote: >>> I'm thinking about rolling my own generic monitoring/statistics solution for >>> tapestry 5 and I figured I should see if something is out there already >>> before I spent too much time on it. >>> >>> This is to be used in production and connected to an external monitoring >>> system, probably via JMX, but we might be flexible. >>> >>> Anything come to mind? >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Howard M. Lewis Ship >> >> Creator of Apache Tapestry >> >> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to >> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! >> >> (971) 678-5210 >> http://howardlewisship.com >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >> > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > > > > -- > Howard M. Lewis Ship > > Creator of Apache Tapestry > > The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to > learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! > > (971) 678-5210 > http://howardlewisship.com > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
On 11-ott-2010, at 20:52, Chris Pall wrote: > And no, it should not phone home - it should be invoked. Ok. I see all your points: - something already there but not automatic - not about the application nor the usage data - yes the version of the framework - some feedback/news/hint/added-value We have a set of requirements.Now we can start to sketch a solution My proposal is something like a component deployed in the example application directly on the index page with a simple form, and a field for comments if you want to type something in it (and of course an hidden field with the version number). It's already there, you can inspect the code to see it's not steeling your precious data, you can cheat if you want, it is simple as clicking a button, as a feedback it will show a customized data about your locale and version. Then you can provide a counter/page on the official web site that shows the results of this in terms of counting how many submits you got. It looks fair as a donate button ;) > > > > On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Chris Pall wrote: > >> You probably would get much better compliance if you were giving them >> something back - if you're giving them a tool that lets them know hey -- >> there is a bugfix for your version. >> >> >> --cgp >> >> >> >> >> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: >> >>> So, Alessio had a good idea ... some way of finding out who is using >>> Tapestry that doesn't rely on the user doing anything manually ... >>> what would be a better way to approach this? >>> >>> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo >>> wrote: On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko wrote: > We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it. Agreed. -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, >>> and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Howard M. Lewis Ship >>> >>> Creator of Apache Tapestry >>> >>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to >>> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! >>> >>> (971) 678-5210 >>> http://howardlewisship.com >>> >>> - >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >>> >>> >> - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
And no, it should not phone home - it should be invoked. On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:50 PM, Chris Pall wrote: > You probably would get much better compliance if you were giving them > something back - if you're giving them a tool that lets them know hey -- > there is a bugfix for your version. > > > --cgp > > > > > On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > >> So, Alessio had a good idea ... some way of finding out who is using >> Tapestry that doesn't rely on the user doing anything manually ... >> what would be a better way to approach this? >> >> On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo >> wrote: >> > On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko >> > wrote: >> > >> >> We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it. >> > >> > Agreed. >> > >> > -- >> > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo >> > Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, >> and >> > instructor >> > Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. >> > http://www.arsmachina.com.br >> > >> > - >> > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >> > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >> > >> > >> >> >> >> -- >> Howard M. Lewis Ship >> >> Creator of Apache Tapestry >> >> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to >> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! >> >> (971) 678-5210 >> http://howardlewisship.com >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >> >> >
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:50:03 -0300, Chris Pall wrote: You probably would get much better compliance if you were giving them something back - if you're giving them a tool that lets them know hey -- there is a bugfix for your version. EHCache does exactly that. -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
You probably would get much better compliance if you were giving them something back - if you're giving them a tool that lets them know hey -- there is a bugfix for your version. --cgp On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 2:46 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > So, Alessio had a good idea ... some way of finding out who is using > Tapestry that doesn't rely on the user doing anything manually ... > what would be a better way to approach this? > > On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo > wrote: > > On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko > > wrote: > > > >> We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it. > > > > Agreed. > > > > -- > > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo > > Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, > and > > instructor > > Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. > > http://www.arsmachina.com.br > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > > > > > > > -- > Howard M. Lewis Ship > > Creator of Apache Tapestry > > The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to > learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! > > (971) 678-5210 > http://howardlewisship.com > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > >
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:46:29 -0300, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: So, Alessio had a good idea ... some way of finding out who is using Tapestry that doesn't rely on the user doing anything manually ... what would be a better way to approach this? What about the generator meta tag Tapestry uses by default? Is there anything that provides searches based in meta tags? Cheers! -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
So, Alessio had a good idea ... some way of finding out who is using Tapestry that doesn't rely on the user doing anything manually ... what would be a better way to approach this? On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 11:27 AM, Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo wrote: > On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko > wrote: > >> We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it. > > Agreed. > > -- > Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo > Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and > instructor > Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. > http://www.arsmachina.com.br > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator of Apache Tapestry The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! (971) 678-5210 http://howardlewisship.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 15:03:16 -0300, Igor Drobiazko wrote: We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it. Agreed. -- Thiago H. de Paula Figueiredo Independent Java, Apache Tapestry 5 and Hibernate consultant, developer, and instructor Owner, Ars Machina Tecnologia da Informação Ltda. http://www.arsmachina.com.br - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
We shouldn't do it. People would hat Tapestry for it. On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 6:49 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > This came up during my training class this week. > > What would be the repercussions if Tapestry included a start-up filter > that "reported" the application startup back to some central location, > so that we could get some idea of where and how Tapestry is being > used? Obviously, this would be documented, in such a way that it > would be easy to turn off for the privacy-minded. > > It would be interesting to know how many apps are running in the wild, > and details about how many pages & components & services, JVM > version, and OS and hardware configuration. > > Asking people to do this manually is a non-starter, I'm constantly > surprised by people telling me they are using Tapestry in visible > places. > > Thoughts? > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Alessio Gambi > Date: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:18 AM > Subject: Re: Monitoring/statistics > To: Tapestry users > > > Hi, > Please think also about some way to obtain (meta) statistics about > Tapestry itself. Something that can be used to track how many people > are actually using tapestry as platform for their applications. > > -- Alessio > > On 11-ott-2010, at 18:05, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > > > I've been thinking about this kind of thing as well; having a JMX bean > > for each Page instance and tracking number of render requests, number > > of event requests, number of ajax even requests, and ellapsed > > processing time for each. > > > > Obviously, it's a bit late for 5.2 ... it may be time to cut a 5.3 dev > > branch off the current 5.2 code base. > > > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Josh Canfield > wrote: > >> I'm thinking about rolling my own generic monitoring/statistics solution > for > >> tapestry 5 and I figured I should see if something is out there already > >> before I spent too much time on it. > >> > >> This is to be used in production and connected to an external monitoring > >> system, probably via JMX, but we might be flexible. > >> > >> Anything come to mind? > >> > > > > > > > > -- > > Howard M. Lewis Ship > > > > Creator of Apache Tapestry > > > > The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to > > learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! > > > > (971) 678-5210 > > http://howardlewisship.com > > > > - > > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > > > > -- > Howard M. Lewis Ship > > Creator of Apache Tapestry > > The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to > learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! > > (971) 678-5210 > http://howardlewisship.com > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > -- Best regards, Igor Drobiazko http://tapestry5.de
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
I don't like this idea. Perhaps I'm one of those privacy-minded people since we use Tapestry in a security sensitive context (credit cards). I remember some time ago when we looked at upgrading Quartz and were surprised to see the new version trying to dial home in a similar manner (by default) Update checker, added in 1.7.2 http://jira.opensymphony.com/browse/QUARTZ-842 An option to turn it off, added in 1.8: http://jira.terracotta.org/jira/browse/QTZ-29 Not so funny when this unnecessary feature introduces new bugs: http://jira.terracotta.org/jira/browse/QTZ-28 To me, adding a feature like this communicates to users that the library/framework in question is not meant to be used in an "enterprise" environment since nothing like this would get past QA (at least not where I work) On Mon, 11 Oct 2010 18:49:13 +0200, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: What would be the repercussions if Tapestry included a start-up filter that "reported" the application startup back to some central location, so that we could get some idea of where and how Tapestry is being used? Obviously, this would be documented, in such a way that it would be easy to turn off for the privacy-minded. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
Hi I think that if put in the right 'shape' and on volunteer basis it can work pretty well. Maybe a filter is bit intrusive ... But eclipse for example does the same, still people use it. In a similar way all the softwares (especially when they fail) have a way to call home. Something like a donate button, where you give some aggregated infos about how you use tapestry and not what you use it for. On 11-ott-2010, at 18:57, Daniel Jue wrote: > I don't think this is a good idea. I understand that it would satisfy > a lot of curiosity. I do not think this is just about curiosity; this is about (real) numbers on the actual impact of tapestry, its geographical distribution, and in a more general way also improvement (not just bug fixes) > There would have to be value-add for the end user, such as > checking for a newer version, etc. In fact there will. More visibility means more people involved, more people involved means more interest, effort and investments. Thus if you already are a kind of tapestry guru then your market value will increase. Then more data means more focused analyses and tests, and in the end a better framework. > > Is there precedent for this in other Apache projects? > > > On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: >> This came up during my training class this week. >> >> What would be the repercussions if Tapestry included a start-up filter >> that "reported" the application startup back to some central location, >> so that we could get some idea of where and how Tapestry is being >> used? Obviously, this would be documented, in such a way that it >> would be easy to turn off for the privacy-minded. >> >> It would be interesting to know how many apps are running in the wild, >> and details about how many pages & components & services, JVM >> version, and OS and hardware configuration. >> >> Asking people to do this manually is a non-starter, I'm constantly >> surprised by people telling me they are using Tapestry in visible >> places. >> >> Thoughts? >> >> >> -- Forwarded message -- >> From: Alessio Gambi >> Date: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:18 AM >> Subject: Re: Monitoring/statistics >> To: Tapestry users >> >> >> Hi, >> Please think also about some way to obtain (meta) statistics about >> Tapestry itself. Something that can be used to track how many people >> are actually using tapestry as platform for their applications. >> >> -- Alessio >> >> On 11-ott-2010, at 18:05, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: >> >>> I've been thinking about this kind of thing as well; having a JMX bean >>> for each Page instance and tracking number of render requests, number >>> of event requests, number of ajax even requests, and ellapsed >>> processing time for each. >>> >>> Obviously, it's a bit late for 5.2 ... it may be time to cut a 5.3 dev >>> branch off the current 5.2 code base. >>> >>> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Josh Canfield >>> wrote: I'm thinking about rolling my own generic monitoring/statistics solution for tapestry 5 and I figured I should see if something is out there already before I spent too much time on it. This is to be used in production and connected to an external monitoring system, probably via JMX, but we might be flexible. Anything come to mind? >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Howard M. Lewis Ship >>> >>> Creator of Apache Tapestry >>> >>> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to >>> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! >>> >>> (971) 678-5210 >>> http://howardlewisship.com >>> >>> - >>> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >>> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >>> >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >> >> >> >> >> -- >> Howard M. Lewis Ship >> >> Creator of Apache Tapestry >> >> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to >> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! >> >> (971) 678-5210 >> http://howardlewisship.com >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >> >> > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Re: Should Tapestry phone home?
I don't think this is a good idea. I understand that it would satisfy a lot of curiosity. Not that it could phone home on the networks I deal with. There would have to be value-add for the end user, such as checking for a newer version, etc. Is there precedent for this in other Apache projects? On Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 12:49 PM, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > This came up during my training class this week. > > What would be the repercussions if Tapestry included a start-up filter > that "reported" the application startup back to some central location, > so that we could get some idea of where and how Tapestry is being > used? Obviously, this would be documented, in such a way that it > would be easy to turn off for the privacy-minded. > > It would be interesting to know how many apps are running in the wild, > and details about how many pages & components & services, JVM > version, and OS and hardware configuration. > > Asking people to do this manually is a non-starter, I'm constantly > surprised by people telling me they are using Tapestry in visible > places. > > Thoughts? > > > -- Forwarded message -- > From: Alessio Gambi > Date: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:18 AM > Subject: Re: Monitoring/statistics > To: Tapestry users > > > Hi, > Please think also about some way to obtain (meta) statistics about > Tapestry itself. Something that can be used to track how many people > are actually using tapestry as platform for their applications. > > -- Alessio > > On 11-ott-2010, at 18:05, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > >> I've been thinking about this kind of thing as well; having a JMX bean >> for each Page instance and tracking number of render requests, number >> of event requests, number of ajax even requests, and ellapsed >> processing time for each. >> >> Obviously, it's a bit late for 5.2 ... it may be time to cut a 5.3 dev >> branch off the current 5.2 code base. >> >> On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Josh Canfield >> wrote: >>> I'm thinking about rolling my own generic monitoring/statistics solution for >>> tapestry 5 and I figured I should see if something is out there already >>> before I spent too much time on it. >>> >>> This is to be used in production and connected to an external monitoring >>> system, probably via JMX, but we might be flexible. >>> >>> Anything come to mind? >>> >> >> >> >> -- >> Howard M. Lewis Ship >> >> Creator of Apache Tapestry >> >> The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to >> learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! >> >> (971) 678-5210 >> http://howardlewisship.com >> >> - >> To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org >> For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org >> > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > > > > -- > Howard M. Lewis Ship > > Creator of Apache Tapestry > > The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to > learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! > > (971) 678-5210 > http://howardlewisship.com > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org
Should Tapestry phone home?
This came up during my training class this week. What would be the repercussions if Tapestry included a start-up filter that "reported" the application startup back to some central location, so that we could get some idea of where and how Tapestry is being used? Obviously, this would be documented, in such a way that it would be easy to turn off for the privacy-minded. It would be interesting to know how many apps are running in the wild, and details about how many pages & components & services, JVM version, and OS and hardware configuration. Asking people to do this manually is a non-starter, I'm constantly surprised by people telling me they are using Tapestry in visible places. Thoughts? -- Forwarded message -- From: Alessio Gambi Date: Mon, Oct 11, 2010 at 9:18 AM Subject: Re: Monitoring/statistics To: Tapestry users Hi, Please think also about some way to obtain (meta) statistics about Tapestry itself. Something that can be used to track how many people are actually using tapestry as platform for their applications. -- Alessio On 11-ott-2010, at 18:05, Howard Lewis Ship wrote: > I've been thinking about this kind of thing as well; having a JMX bean > for each Page instance and tracking number of render requests, number > of event requests, number of ajax even requests, and ellapsed > processing time for each. > > Obviously, it's a bit late for 5.2 ... it may be time to cut a 5.3 dev > branch off the current 5.2 code base. > > On Sun, Oct 10, 2010 at 2:05 PM, Josh Canfield wrote: >> I'm thinking about rolling my own generic monitoring/statistics solution for >> tapestry 5 and I figured I should see if something is out there already >> before I spent too much time on it. >> >> This is to be used in production and connected to an external monitoring >> system, probably via JMX, but we might be flexible. >> >> Anything come to mind? >> > > > > -- > Howard M. Lewis Ship > > Creator of Apache Tapestry > > The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to > learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! > > (971) 678-5210 > http://howardlewisship.com > > - > To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org > For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org > - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org -- Howard M. Lewis Ship Creator of Apache Tapestry The source for Tapestry training, mentoring and support. Contact me to learn how I can get you up and productive in Tapestry fast! (971) 678-5210 http://howardlewisship.com - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@tapestry.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@tapestry.apache.org