Re: General questions regarding Wicket roadmap and plans
But you did release them and obtained a financial benefit from the releases, the very fact that it is released to the outside world make others know of your existance and improves your exposure tremendously. The particular point under discussion originally was whether a good and active component marketplace/showcase site for Wicket will help drive the adoption and acceptance rate, as well as allow newbies like myself to pick up and use Wicket more easily. It's not about the difficulty or ease of creating/maintaining components in Wicket. Well, it's been pointed out that it's more of a resource issue to maintain such a site and I guess we'll just have to leave it at that, until someone outside the core Wicket team takes up the gauntlet and build one for the rest of us. =) Lester Jeremy Thomerson wrote: +1000 to Martijn's comment. I've released a few open source components - and none are at the level to be sold. Not because they can't be used - I do use them in production. But because there are a million use cases and I have no desire, time, or monetary reason to accommodate those use cases. Instead, if people contact me, I will either build them a custom component for hire or will allow them to pay me to add features to an open source one. -- Jeremy Thomerson http://www.wickettraining.com On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 2:54 AM, Martijn Dashorst martijn.dasho...@gmail.com wrote: The problem with pre built components is that they never, ever are exactly what you want or need. Maintaining such components for other people is what I call hell. We are in the business of creating the best Java web framework for building your own custom components with unprecedented ease. This takes enough time already. Anybody is welcome to build component libraries, open source or commercially. Our license allows for that and nobody would object to creative folks trying to earn a buck or two with their component (libraries). That this hasn't happened (yet) is mostly because it is so damned easy to create your own custom components according to your coding style that precisely fit in your application and perform exactly those task you intend them to. And conversely it is damned hard to create a finished, polished, released component. It is easy to start a component, but it is *work* to ship it. Martijn - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
Re: General questions regarding Wicket roadmap and plans
+1000 to Martijn's comment. I've released a few open source components - and none are at the level to be sold. Not because they can't be used - I do use them in production. But because there are a million use cases and I have no desire, time, or monetary reason to accommodate those use cases. Instead, if people contact me, I will either build them a custom component for hire or will allow them to pay me to add features to an open source one. -- Jeremy Thomerson http://www.wickettraining.com On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 2:54 AM, Martijn Dashorst martijn.dasho...@gmail.com wrote: The problem with pre built components is that they never, ever are exactly what you want or need. Maintaining such components for other people is what I call hell. We are in the business of creating the best Java web framework for building your own custom components with unprecedented ease. This takes enough time already. Anybody is welcome to build component libraries, open source or commercially. Our license allows for that and nobody would object to creative folks trying to earn a buck or two with their component (libraries). That this hasn't happened (yet) is mostly because it is so damned easy to create your own custom components according to your coding style that precisely fit in your application and perform exactly those task you intend them to. And conversely it is damned hard to create a finished, polished, released component. It is easy to start a component, but it is *work* to ship it. Martijn
Re: General questions regarding Wicket roadmap and plans
The problem with pre built components is that they never, ever are exactly what you want or need. Maintaining such components for other people is what I call hell. We are in the business of creating the best Java web framework for building your own custom components with unprecedented ease. This takes enough time already. Anybody is welcome to build component libraries, open source or commercially. Our license allows for that and nobody would object to creative folks trying to earn a buck or two with their component (libraries). That this hasn't happened (yet) is mostly because it is so damned easy to create your own custom components according to your coding style that precisely fit in your application and perform exactly those task you intend them to. And conversely it is damned hard to create a finished, polished, released component. It is easy to start a component, but it is *work* to ship it. Martijn On Fri, Dec 4, 2009 at 6:37 AM, Lester Chua cicowic...@gmail.com wrote: I think it's kinda of chicken and egg issue wrt components. If newbies do not see components readily available, they will probably end up coding what they want themselves because: 1) it takes time to articulate properly their requirements 2) avoid facing potential embarrassment because the component that they want is trivial (which turns out not to be) 3) I know it when I see it (this is quite common and this approach normally requires a large library of things to pick from) Maybe the reason why no one is asking is one of the above reasons, or all of them combined. Igor Vaynberg wrote: the interesting bit is that people are saying that there are not enough components that wicket ships with, but no one is saying which componets exactly they are missing. -igor On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Ashley Aitken mrhat...@mac.com wrote: On 02/12/2009, at 10:45 AM, Igor Vaynberg wrote: but as you will see, there is not much demand for precanned components out there, they are just too easy to roll yourself and there are a lot of open source ones that you can at least get ideas from for your specific requirements. But isn't that missing some of the major reasons for using components: 1. that you shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel (even if it is easy), 2. that a component that is tried and tested (version 3+) is better than my version 1, 3. components can encapsulate best practice that takes time to learn, 4. a suite of components may integrate better. Writing a linked list in Java is easy but I would never consider doing that, the available classe are much more powerful, general, well-tested, integrated, ... I'm not knowledgeable wrt Wicket components or JSF components, but generally speaking what components available in JSF, for example, wouldn't be useful in Wicket and why not? I'm with the OP in that I'm a little surprised by the lack of published components (from low-level to high-level). Again, I am probably missing something ... Maybe as I learn more about Wicket and get more experience I will understand. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia Skype/iChat: MrHatken (GMT + 8hrs!) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org -- Become a Wicket expert, learn from the best: http://wicketinaction.com Apache Wicket 1.4 increases type safety for web applications Get it now: http://www.apache.org/dyn/closer.cgi/wicket/1.4.0 - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
Re: General questions regarding Wicket roadmap and plans
On 02/12/2009, at 10:45 AM, Igor Vaynberg wrote: but as you will see, there is not much demand for precanned components out there, they are just too easy to roll yourself and there are a lot of open source ones that you can at least get ideas from for your specific requirements. But isn't that missing some of the major reasons for using components: 1. that you shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel (even if it is easy), 2. that a component that is tried and tested (version 3+) is better than my version 1, 3. components can encapsulate best practice that takes time to learn, 4. a suite of components may integrate better. Writing a linked list in Java is easy but I would never consider doing that, the available classe are much more powerful, general, well- tested, integrated, ... I'm not knowledgeable wrt Wicket components or JSF components, but generally speaking what components available in JSF, for example, wouldn't be useful in Wicket and why not? I'm with the OP in that I'm a little surprised by the lack of published components (from low-level to high-level). Again, I am probably missing something ... Maybe as I learn more about Wicket and get more experience I will understand. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia Skype/iChat: MrHatken (GMT + 8hrs!) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
Re: General questions regarding Wicket roadmap and plans
the interesting bit is that people are saying that there are not enough components that wicket ships with, but no one is saying which componets exactly they are missing. -igor On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Ashley Aitken mrhat...@mac.com wrote: On 02/12/2009, at 10:45 AM, Igor Vaynberg wrote: but as you will see, there is not much demand for precanned components out there, they are just too easy to roll yourself and there are a lot of open source ones that you can at least get ideas from for your specific requirements. But isn't that missing some of the major reasons for using components: 1. that you shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel (even if it is easy), 2. that a component that is tried and tested (version 3+) is better than my version 1, 3. components can encapsulate best practice that takes time to learn, 4. a suite of components may integrate better. Writing a linked list in Java is easy but I would never consider doing that, the available classe are much more powerful, general, well-tested, integrated, ... I'm not knowledgeable wrt Wicket components or JSF components, but generally speaking what components available in JSF, for example, wouldn't be useful in Wicket and why not? I'm with the OP in that I'm a little surprised by the lack of published components (from low-level to high-level). Again, I am probably missing something ... Maybe as I learn more about Wicket and get more experience I will understand. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia Skype/iChat: MrHatken (GMT + 8hrs!) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
Re: General questions regarding Wicket roadmap and plans
I agree that more components are needed and would add that a good calendar would be a great place to start. On Dec 3, 2009, at 11:16 PM, Igor Vaynberg igor.vaynb...@gmail.com wrote: the interesting bit is that people are saying that there are not enough components that wicket ships with, but no one is saying which componets exactly they are missing. -igor On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Ashley Aitken mrhat...@mac.com wrote: On 02/12/2009, at 10:45 AM, Igor Vaynberg wrote: but as you will see, there is not much demand for precanned components out there, they are just too easy to roll yourself and there are a lot of open source ones that you can at least get ideas from for your specific requirements. But isn't that missing some of the major reasons for using components: 1. that you shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel (even if it is easy), 2. that a component that is tried and tested (version 3+) is better than my version 1, 3. components can encapsulate best practice that takes time to learn, 4. a suite of components may integrate better. Writing a linked list in Java is easy but I would never consider doing that, the available classe are much more powerful, general, well-tested, integrated, ... I'm not knowledgeable wrt Wicket components or JSF components, but generally speaking what components available in JSF, for example, wouldn't be useful in Wicket and why not? I'm with the OP in that I'm a little surprised by the lack of published components (from low-level to high-level). Again, I am probably missing something ... Maybe as I learn more about Wicket and get more experience I will understand. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia Skype/iChat: MrHatken (GMT + 8hrs!) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
Re: General questions regarding Wicket roadmap and plans
like this? https://wicket-stuff.svn.sourceforge.net/svnroot/wicket-stuff/trunk/wicketstuff-core/calendarviews-parent/ -igor On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 8:32 PM, ljw1001 ljw1...@gmail.com wrote: I agree that more components are needed and would add that a good calendar would be a great place to start. On Dec 3, 2009, at 11:16 PM, Igor Vaynberg igor.vaynb...@gmail.com wrote: the interesting bit is that people are saying that there are not enough components that wicket ships with, but no one is saying which componets exactly they are missing. -igor On Thu, Dec 3, 2009 at 7:41 PM, Ashley Aitken mrhat...@mac.com wrote: On 02/12/2009, at 10:45 AM, Igor Vaynberg wrote: but as you will see, there is not much demand for precanned components out there, they are just too easy to roll yourself and there are a lot of open source ones that you can at least get ideas from for your specific requirements. But isn't that missing some of the major reasons for using components: 1. that you shouldn't have to reinvent the wheel (even if it is easy), 2. that a component that is tried and tested (version 3+) is better than my version 1, 3. components can encapsulate best practice that takes time to learn, 4. a suite of components may integrate better. Writing a linked list in Java is easy but I would never consider doing that, the available classe are much more powerful, general, well-tested, integrated, ... I'm not knowledgeable wrt Wicket components or JSF components, but generally speaking what components available in JSF, for example, wouldn't be useful in Wicket and why not? I'm with the OP in that I'm a little surprised by the lack of published components (from low-level to high-level). Again, I am probably missing something ... Maybe as I learn more about Wicket and get more experience I will understand. Cheers, Ashley. -- Ashley Aitken Perth, Western Australia Skype/iChat: MrHatken (GMT + 8hrs!) - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
Re: General questions regarding Wicket roadmap and plans
Hi, Took some time to pick up this thread again as we were preparing for the UAT of the application rewrite using Wicket =) for the last 2 weeks. The UAT was quite successful, with minor modifications required (expected). The real good news is that Wicket performed admirably in terms of productivity and the bugs tracing and fixes in the lead up to the UAT. We rewrote the modules in under a month (the original took about 4). The productivity boost actually came from the tweaks we needed for UI interaction as well as code tracing when unexpected behaviour occured. The experience using Wicket has been real refreshing, I truly enjoyed the departure from the model2 as well as the json-rest/rich-client frameworks we were used to. Ok enough ambling. I have some responses below. Igor Vaynberg wrote: On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Lester Chua cicowic...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the reply. 1) Product Roadmap (Release plans, upcoming features etc) This is important to us because it will at least indicate the intentions of Wicket Team. As any technology that is adopted enterprise-wide needs to be long-lived and well supported in addition to it's features and technology, some visibility about the product lifecycle is required. http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/wicket-15-wish-list.html http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/wicket-14-wish-list.html I did see the wishlist but was wishing for something more like a roadmap with projected release timelines, I can see why that it will probably not be accurate for an open sourced project but an indication of a rough ETA and included features will be good. By the way, is the wishlist official? As in are the features present in the wishlist official? Or is the wishlist used as an idea incubator/exchange? its an idea incubator Although it's nice to have the wishlist, it's a shame that the Wicket does not publish a roadmap (even a limited one with just key specific features to be improved on). Is is a resource/maintenance issue you have that prevents you from doing so? Or is it more of a management decision to not publish the roadmap so that you can avoid commiting to a timeline? The reason why I'm asking this is partly selfish. The organization that I'm pushing Wicket in has a technical committee that review frameworks/platforms for use. Anything that does not fall into their recommended list will need a waiver to be used and deployed. Yea I know, very cumbersome but it's a fact of life here, and I suspect in many other organizations that have security as one of their top concerns. After using Wicket in a real life app conversion, I think I'm able to address most points that has been raised including security (very pleased on that front) and productivity etc. But part of the checklist I am forced to go through is estimated product life span, road map etc. Unfortunately, It's here that I'm stumped. Has anyone else been through this hoop-la-loop that your organization forced you to go through for the introduction of Wicket? If so it'll be great if the information on how that was achieved can be shared as it'll help me immensely in the fight to get Wicket into my enterprise environment. 2) Recent Adoption Statistics (No of downloads, usage projections) We need this to gauge the interest in the project. Has it peaked? What is the pattern like? ++ Nice idea a) Although there is examples and documentation available on Wicket main site and Wicket stuff, I find that the organization of the information is probably not friendly enough for easy viewing. E.g. the examples site does not contain source and viewable example together in an easy to read page. This can be improved on significantly. you and your team are welcome to contribute, great ideas btw Planning to once I get up to speed. Being such an easy to use component framework, I am really puzzled about why the plugin development seems so bare One reason is that it's so easy to make plugins it feels unnecessary to publish them. Actually I kinda disagree. Take Delphi which was awesome for it's component architecture and IDE. Writing components and packaging them was very easy but it had a HUGE thriving component library market place where you can literally purchase thousands of packages and libraries. desktops apps are different, you can build any kind of component you want. wicket works with server-side html and there is a limited set of things you can build. if you need a slider then the chances are we wont provide it, we dont need to, just use wicket to output a hidden field and make a slider out of it using jquery or some other frontend library. in about two minutes you can wrap that into a jqueryslider component, would you take the time to share something that took two minutes to build? some people do, there are a couple of projects out there that provide integrations between wicket and
Re: General questions regarding Wicket roadmap and plans
On Tue, Dec 1, 2009 at 5:17 PM, Lester Chua cicowic...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Took some time to pick up this thread again as we were preparing for the UAT of the application rewrite using Wicket =) for the last 2 weeks. The UAT was quite successful, with minor modifications required (expected). The real good news is that Wicket performed admirably in terms of productivity and the bugs tracing and fixes in the lead up to the UAT. We rewrote the modules in under a month (the original took about 4). The productivity boost actually came from the tweaks we needed for UI interaction as well as code tracing when unexpected behaviour occured. The experience using Wicket has been real refreshing, I truly enjoyed the departure from the model2 as well as the json-rest/rich-client frameworks we were used to. Ok enough ambling. I have some responses below. Igor Vaynberg wrote: On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Lester Chua cicowic...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the reply. 1) Product Roadmap (Release plans, upcoming features etc) This is important to us because it will at least indicate the intentions of Wicket Team. As any technology that is adopted enterprise-wide needs to be long-lived and well supported in addition to it's features and technology, some visibility about the product lifecycle is required. http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/wicket-15-wish-list.html http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/wicket-14-wish-list.html I did see the wishlist but was wishing for something more like a roadmap with projected release timelines, I can see why that it will probably not be accurate for an open sourced project but an indication of a rough ETA and included features will be good. By the way, is the wishlist official? As in are the features present in the wishlist official? Or is the wishlist used as an idea incubator/exchange? its an idea incubator Although it's nice to have the wishlist, it's a shame that the Wicket does not publish a roadmap (even a limited one with just key specific features to be improved on). Is is a resource/maintenance issue you have that prevents you from doing so? Or is it more of a management decision to not publish the roadmap so that you can avoid commiting to a timeline? The reason why I'm asking this is partly selfish. The organization that I'm pushing Wicket in has a technical committee that review frameworks/platforms for use. Anything that does not fall into their recommended list will need a waiver to be used and deployed. Yea I know, very cumbersome but it's a fact of life here, and I suspect in many other organizations that have security as one of their top concerns. After using Wicket in a real life app conversion, I think I'm able to address most points that has been raised including security (very pleased on that front) and productivity etc. But part of the checklist I am forced to go through is estimated product life span, road map etc. Unfortunately, It's here that I'm stumped. Has anyone else been through this hoop-la-loop that your organization forced you to go through for the introduction of Wicket? If so it'll be great if the information on how that was achieved can be shared as it'll help me immensely in the fight to get Wicket into my enterprise environment. it is a combination of all these things. mainly we do not want to commit to a feature set because we do not know what our resources will be during the build phase. we have a general idea of what we want to do and how, and that is outlined in discussions on the mailing lists. 2) Recent Adoption Statistics (No of downloads, usage projections) We need this to gauge the interest in the project. Has it peaked? What is the pattern like? ++ Nice idea a) Although there is examples and documentation available on Wicket main site and Wicket stuff, I find that the organization of the information is probably not friendly enough for easy viewing. E.g. the examples site does not contain source and viewable example together in an easy to read page. This can be improved on significantly. you and your team are welcome to contribute, great ideas btw Planning to once I get up to speed. Being such an easy to use component framework, I am really puzzled about why the plugin development seems so bare One reason is that it's so easy to make plugins it feels unnecessary to publish them. Actually I kinda disagree. Take Delphi which was awesome for it's component architecture and IDE. Writing components and packaging them was very easy but it had a HUGE thriving component library market place where you can literally purchase thousands of packages and libraries. desktops apps are different, you can build any kind of component you want. wicket works with server-side html and there is a limited set of things you can build. if you need a slider then the chances are we wont provide it, we dont need to, just use wicket to output
Re: General questions regarding Wicket roadmap and plans
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Lester Chua cicowic...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I've finished converting major portions of an existing in-house application from EXTJS/JSON Servlets to Wicket as part of an evaluation of Wicket. Right now I'm VERY impressed with the framework and would like to introduce it to the organization I'm working for. There are a couple of things that I could not find and was wondering if the Wicket Team have them but somehow failed to make them available in the Wicket Site. I hope someone can help me out if this is available but I had somehow missed it. 1) Product Roadmap (Release plans, upcoming features etc) This is important to us because it will at least indicate the intentions of Wicket Team. As any technology that is adopted enterprise-wide needs to be long-lived and well supported in addition to it's features and technology, some visibility about the product lifecycle is required. we do not publish an official road map because its one more thing to maintain that is not wicket. up until now there was no interest in one because we often discuss our plans on the mailing list. 2) Recent Adoption Statistics (No of downloads, usage projections) We need this to gauge the interest in the project. Has it peaked? What is the pattern like? number of downloads are pretty meaningless since most users get wicket through the maven repo and there are no statistics available for those. especially because these repos are also proxied. eg if ibm has a maven proxy then the wicket jar is only downloaded once although potentially used by every ibm developer. Some comments about Wicket (project/product aspects), this is not a critique but just observations that may be wrong, do correct me if I had missed something or have some wrong impression about Wicket site. a) Although there is examples and documentation available on Wicket main site and Wicket stuff, I find that the organization of the information is probably not friendly enough for easy viewing. E.g. the examples site does not contain source and viewable example together in an easy to read page. This can be improved on significantly. there is a source code link in the gray header of every example. i agree, this is not the prettiest nor the coolest out there, but it gets the job done. our users are more then welcome to submit patches to make it better. we are still actively developing improvements to wicket itself so sometimes projects like examples get sidelined due to our limited resources. b) Having a Wicket Stuff site that does not appear updated nor actively maintained will HURT the project in terms of it's adoption. i wouldnt say that wicket-stuff is officially affiliated with wicket itself. it is a playground for developers who use wicket to share ideas. Wicket is FANTASTIC as a component based solution to our current web development landscape. I am preaching to the sold when I say that it's easy to use and yet flexible to do moderately complex stuff productively. Being such an easy to use component framework, I am really puzzled about why the plugin development seems so bare what kinds of components were you missing when building your project? (in comparison to other frameworks I'm used to like JQuery, ExtJS, Grails, Ruby on Rails etc). extjs is also quiet bare. i was not able to find a lot of things i was looking for when building an app using it. jquery has a ton of plugins but most of them are garbage, and that makes it very difficult to sift through and find a good one. you get a plugin, it works, great. then you try to do something and it doesnt. fine, you think, i will just go into the source and tweak it. you open the source and your eyes start bleeding. this has been my experience with probably 80% of jquery plugins ive used. In fact, Wicket makes plugin deployment and integration seem like a piece of cake compared to some of the frameworks mentioned earlier. And yet, wicket seems woefully underpowered in the plugins department and worse, the official site seems abandoned which will definitely harm Wicket's adoption rate. http://wicket.apache.org/ is abandoned? i remember updating it just a few weeks ago with the new 1.4.3 release c) The mailing list is wonderful and I have had some questions very quickly answered, which points to an active and supportive community for which I'm grateful. If there is a way to harness this and make the information more easily accessible, it'll be awesome. http://markmail.org is a wonderful tool for searching apache mailing lists. Ok, enough bitching =), I love Wicket! Hopefully, I can become proficient enough to actively contribute to the documentation to make this great framework more accessible to newbies like myself. yeah, we hear that a lot -igor But first, I need to sell my team and management on the long term product aspects of Wicket. Any help or information about point 1 2 is greatly appreciated. Lester On
Re: General questions regarding Wicket roadmap and plans
On Wed, Nov 18, 2009 at 9:27 PM, Lester Chua cicowic...@gmail.com wrote: Thanks for the reply. 1) Product Roadmap (Release plans, upcoming features etc) This is important to us because it will at least indicate the intentions of Wicket Team. As any technology that is adopted enterprise-wide needs to be long-lived and well supported in addition to it's features and technology, some visibility about the product lifecycle is required. http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/wicket-15-wish-list.html http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/wicket-14-wish-list.html I did see the wishlist but was wishing for something more like a roadmap with projected release timelines, I can see why that it will probably not be accurate for an open sourced project but an indication of a rough ETA and included features will be good. By the way, is the wishlist official? As in are the features present in the wishlist official? Or is the wishlist used as an idea incubator/exchange? its an idea incubator 2) Recent Adoption Statistics (No of downloads, usage projections) We need this to gauge the interest in the project. Has it peaked? What is the pattern like? ++ Nice idea a) Although there is examples and documentation available on Wicket main site and Wicket stuff, I find that the organization of the information is probably not friendly enough for easy viewing. E.g. the examples site does not contain source and viewable example together in an easy to read page. This can be improved on significantly. you and your team are welcome to contribute, great ideas btw Planning to once I get up to speed. Being such an easy to use component framework, I am really puzzled about why the plugin development seems so bare One reason is that it's so easy to make plugins it feels unnecessary to publish them. Actually I kinda disagree. Take Delphi which was awesome for it's component architecture and IDE. Writing components and packaging them was very easy but it had a HUGE thriving component library market place where you can literally purchase thousands of packages and libraries. desktops apps are different, you can build any kind of component you want. wicket works with server-side html and there is a limited set of things you can build. if you need a slider then the chances are we wont provide it, we dont need to, just use wicket to output a hidden field and make a slider out of it using jquery or some other frontend library. in about two minutes you can wrap that into a jqueryslider component, would you take the time to share something that took two minutes to build? some people do, there are a couple of projects out there that provide integrations between wicket and jquery, but most people dont end up sharing. c) The mailing list is wonderful and I have had some questions very quickly answered, which points to an active and supportive community for which I'm grateful. If there is a way to harness this and make the information more easily accessible, it'll be awesome. Google reaches most of the discussion via nable/osdir. Yea, that is how I got most of the solutions to my little set of problems. =) Just wishing that it can be better. hrm, you posted about six messages on our lists, and most times you got an answer within a couple of hours. that is better then most commercial support out there. and yet you are still complaining? :) -igor My 2cents worth ;) ** Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
General questions regarding Wicket roadmap and plans
Hi, I've finished converting major portions of an existing in-house application from EXTJS/JSON Servlets to Wicket as part of an evaluation of Wicket. Right now I'm VERY impressed with the framework and would like to introduce it to the organization I'm working for. There are a couple of things that I could not find and was wondering if the Wicket Team have them but somehow failed to make them available in the Wicket Site. I hope someone can help me out if this is available but I had somehow missed it. 1) Product Roadmap (Release plans, upcoming features etc) This is important to us because it will at least indicate the intentions of Wicket Team. As any technology that is adopted enterprise-wide needs to be long-lived and well supported in addition to it's features and technology, some visibility about the product lifecycle is required. 2) Recent Adoption Statistics (No of downloads, usage projections) We need this to gauge the interest in the project. Has it peaked? What is the pattern like? Some comments about Wicket (project/product aspects), this is not a critique but just observations that may be wrong, do correct me if I had missed something or have some wrong impression about Wicket site. a) Although there is examples and documentation available on Wicket main site and Wicket stuff, I find that the organization of the information is probably not friendly enough for easy viewing. E.g. the examples site does not contain source and viewable example together in an easy to read page. This can be improved on significantly. b) Having a Wicket Stuff site that does not appear updated nor actively maintained will HURT the project in terms of it's adoption. Wicket is FANTASTIC as a component based solution to our current web development landscape. I am preaching to the sold when I say that it's easy to use and yet flexible to do moderately complex stuff productively. Being such an easy to use component framework, I am really puzzled about why the plugin development seems so bare (in comparison to other frameworks I'm used to like JQuery, ExtJS, Grails, Ruby on Rails etc). In fact, Wicket makes plugin deployment and integration seem like a piece of cake compared to some of the frameworks mentioned earlier. And yet, wicket seems woefully underpowered in the plugins department and worse, the official site seems abandoned which will definitely harm Wicket's adoption rate. c) The mailing list is wonderful and I have had some questions very quickly answered, which points to an active and supportive community for which I'm grateful. If there is a way to harness this and make the information more easily accessible, it'll be awesome. Ok, enough bitching =), I love Wicket! Hopefully, I can become proficient enough to actively contribute to the documentation to make this great framework more accessible to newbies like myself. But first, I need to sell my team and management on the long term product aspects of Wicket. Any help or information about point 1 2 is greatly appreciated. Lester On a more irrelevant note when I first started web development back in 1999, I was wondering if I could use Rational Rose to generate a UML model of my web project (it can't). But now with wicket, I can fully reverse engineer a UML model that MAKES SENSE for my Wicket App! Ok, I may not want to do that now, but it's actually possible, try doing that with any other web framework. - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
Re: General questions regarding Wicket roadmap and plans
1) Product Roadmap (Release plans, upcoming features etc) This is important to us because it will at least indicate the intentions of Wicket Team. As any technology that is adopted enterprise-wide needs to be long-lived and well supported in addition to it's features and technology, some visibility about the product lifecycle is required. http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/wicket-15-wish-list.html http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/wicket-14-wish-list.html 2) Recent Adoption Statistics (No of downloads, usage projections) We need this to gauge the interest in the project. Has it peaked? What is the pattern like? ++ Nice idea a) Although there is examples and documentation available on Wicket main site and Wicket stuff, I find that the organization of the information is probably not friendly enough for easy viewing. E.g. the examples site does not contain source and viewable example together in an easy to read page. This can be improved on significantly. you and your team are welcome to contribute, great ideas btw Being such an easy to use component framework, I am really puzzled about why the plugin development seems so bare One reason is that it's so easy to make plugins it feels unnecessary to publish them. c) The mailing list is wonderful and I have had some questions very quickly answered, which points to an active and supportive community for which I'm grateful. If there is a way to harness this and make the information more easily accessible, it'll be awesome. Google reaches most of the discussion via nable/osdir. My 2cents worth ;) ** Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
Re: General questions regarding Wicket roadmap and plans
Thanks for the reply. 1) Product Roadmap (Release plans, upcoming features etc) This is important to us because it will at least indicate the intentions of Wicket Team. As any technology that is adopted enterprise-wide needs to be long-lived and well supported in addition to it's features and technology, some visibility about the product lifecycle is required. http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/wicket-15-wish-list.html http://cwiki.apache.org/WICKET/wicket-14-wish-list.html I did see the wishlist but was wishing for something more like a roadmap with projected release timelines, I can see why that it will probably not be accurate for an open sourced project but an indication of a rough ETA and included features will be good. By the way, is the wishlist official? As in are the features present in the wishlist official? Or is the wishlist used as an idea incubator/exchange? 2) Recent Adoption Statistics (No of downloads, usage projections) We need this to gauge the interest in the project. Has it peaked? What is the pattern like? ++ Nice idea a) Although there is examples and documentation available on Wicket main site and Wicket stuff, I find that the organization of the information is probably not friendly enough for easy viewing. E.g. the examples site does not contain source and viewable example together in an easy to read page. This can be improved on significantly. you and your team are welcome to contribute, great ideas btw Planning to once I get up to speed. Being such an easy to use component framework, I am really puzzled about why the plugin development seems so bare One reason is that it's so easy to make plugins it feels unnecessary to publish them. Actually I kinda disagree. Take Delphi which was awesome for it's component architecture and IDE. Writing components and packaging them was very easy but it had a HUGE thriving component library market place where you can literally purchase thousands of packages and libraries. c) The mailing list is wonderful and I have had some questions very quickly answered, which points to an active and supportive community for which I'm grateful. If there is a way to harness this and make the information more easily accessible, it'll be awesome. Google reaches most of the discussion via nable/osdir. Yea, that is how I got most of the solutions to my little set of problems. =) Just wishing that it can be better. My 2cents worth ;) ** Martin - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org - To unsubscribe, e-mail: users-unsubscr...@wicket.apache.org For additional commands, e-mail: users-h...@wicket.apache.org
