[USMA 301] Re: Vote on the subject for a new Washington Post editorial

[Carleton MacDonald]

This time with the link. “Send” and “Paste” are too close together.

 

It will not take any of us on this list long to find the one we need to vote 
for.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/wp/2016/08/24/vote-on-the-topic-for-a-future-washington-post-editorial/?utm_term=.7a2e589f2489

 

Carleton

 

 

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[USMA 300] Vote on the subject for a new Washington Post editorial

[Carleton MacDonald]

It will not take any of us on this list long to find the one we need to vote 
for.

 

 

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[USMA 274] Re: Reply To: SAE More Metric

[Carleton MacDonald]

The Washington Post is now leaving metric in stories when the original source 
had it that way, and only rarely is giving a parenthetical conversion. They 
hadn’t done that before.

Most of the staff at my various doctors, unfortunately, still insist on pounds.

Carleton

On 2016-07-20, 15:43, "USMA on behalf of c...@traditio.com" 
 wrote:

Stan (Jackuba)-- I agree with your final point.  I think that we will see 
metrication come naturally rather than by government mandate.  One big 
driver is technology.  I have noticed that when a new area of technology 
is rolled out -- electric cars and Compact Fluorescent Lights, for 
example, they start 100% metric.  Did you hear any complaints about CFLs 
being measure in lumens?  No.  I doubt that any but us metricists even 
know what a lumen is!

I hear metric units being spoken of more and more in the broadcast media. 
Millimeters are commonly used for small distances.  Meters and kilometers 
are also heard more.  Degrees Celsius are all over the international 
reports that are on cable television.

A personal experience.  When I went for a medical appointment a year ago, 
I gave my height in centimeters and weight in kilograms.  This caused some 
confusion because the computer program wasn't set up for it.  When I went 
in a year later, no problem.  I was told that the computer program was set 
up, and that more patients were giving their data in metric units.  If you 
monitor your diet in grams, why shouldn't you monitor your weight in 
kilograms?

In some ways, a governmental metric mandate may be preferable, but in some 
ways not.  Look at Britain.  It is supposed to be metricated, but it is 
still pretty mixed up after all these years.  --Martin Morrison


On Wed, 20 Jul 2016, Stanislav Jakuba wrote:

> Old-timers will remember that several decades ago there was yet another 
push for metrication. At
> that time, the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE), among others, 
switched to publishing its
> flagship AUTOMOTIVE ENGINEERING magazine in metric units. I am purposely 
not saying SI, because old
> metric units were still there, the editors not knowing better. A decade 
later, it was back to IP
> units at SAE, enacted on a protest by protesting "letters form members." 
(It was 6 or 8 letters we
> were told and none of us on the committee saw any of them; the rumor was 
that they originated with
> influential retirees). 
> 
> 
> Now I am pleased to share with you that, in the latest issue, although 
still ?dual united? here and
> there, almost all units were SI metric including the most ignored unit of 
them all, the joule.
> 
> 
> Here are some examples: Referring to the Le Mans racing technology the 
article says?10 MJ per lap?
> (followed by the silly conversion of (2.77 kWh)). Porsche has 8 MJ 
assist, Audi 6 MJ (no I-Ps). Car
> dimensions 4650 mm l., 1050 mm w., 1050 h. (with inches in brackets),  
but both the displacement
> volume and fuel capacity in L only.
> 
> 
> Perhaps the new era of fuel efficiency in racing and the existence of 
both IC and el. cars will
> accomplish what our generation has not. 
> 
> Stan J.
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[USMA 223] Re: From Queen Elizabeth

[Carleton MacDonald]

I rented a car in Ireland in 2009. It was a stick shift, wheel on the right, 
drive on the left side of the road. It wasn’t difficult.

 

We rented the car in Belfast, toured the shipyard where the Titanic and the 
Olympic were built, drove to Downpatrick to see St. Patrick’s burial site (at 
the Anglican cathedral there), then drove to Dublin. The minute we crossed the 
border, I noticed:

 

The road signs were in both English and Gaelic.

Speed limits and distances were in km.

I had to find a bank machine to get some euro notes.

 

Carleton

 

On 2016-07-11, 17:39, "USMA on behalf of Mark Henschel" 
 wrote:

 

Interesting thing about the British and their roundabouts, and driving on the 
left side of the road.  

 

I was in a car being driven around England a few years back. The driver sits on 
the right, but the gear shift is in the left, in the middle of the car. So 
since they travel on the opposite side of the road, their roundabouts turn 
clockwise,  not counter clockwise as ours do.

 

So here we are with the driver on the right, her left hand on the gear shift, 
right hand on the steering wheel, left foot on the clutch and right foot on the 
accelerator, and attempting to go counterclockwise into a roundabout. All the 
time looking right and turning left. At least in the USA we can use our best 
hand for most of us (right handers) on the gear shift and just hold the 
steering wheel with the left hand, look left and turn right, but I imagine it 
is a challenge to constantly use your left hand to shift gears if you are right 
handed.

 

Few European cars have automatic transmissions. Even when I rented cars in 
Germany, they were usually stick shift but diesel engines. Hmmm. wonder if I 
got one of the cars VW cheated on the emissions with?

 

Mark

 

On Mon, Jul 11, 2016 at 4:15 PM, John Dunlop  wrote:

I just received a note from Queen Elizabeth.  She has declared that we are 
flubbing democracy, and therefore, effectively immediately, our independence is 
revoked.  Among the changes she will implement in the country formerly known as 
the USA:



6. All intersections will be replaced with roundabouts, and you will start 
driving on the left side with immediate effect. At the same time, you will go 
metric with immediate effect and without the benefit of conversion tables.  
Both roundabouts and metrication will help you understand the British sense of 
humour.


John



John Dunlop
jrdun...@igc.org personal email
612-374-2181 home phone


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[USMA 103] Re: New York Times: "Don't Let the Metric System Scare You"

[Carleton MacDonald]

I have an Italian coffee grinder with a small scoop in it. I find one scoop per 
100 ml of water makes fine coffee. A mug is 300 ml, so if I want two for me, 
two for my neighbor and one for my son (that's all he drinks) that's 15 scoops 
and 1.5 L. 

I should see what 15 scoops are on the scale, though, and see if it is close to 
83 g of coffee, which according to the formula would be good for 1.5 L of water.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: USMA [mailto:usma-boun...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of c...@traditio.com
Sent: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 21:49
To: USMA List Server 
Subject: [USMA 98] New York Times: "Don't Let the Metric System Scare You"

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2016/02/23/dining/how-to-make-coffee.html?_r=0

2.  Use a Scale, Not a Scoop

Now that nerd has gone from a slur to a compliment, it frees you to be more 
compulsive about how you make coffee. To start, coffee should be measured in 
grams, using a digital scale. It doesnt have to be expensive. 
You can buy a perfectly functional digital scale for less than $15.

This suggestion shouldnt be a surprise to anybody who has bought a baking 
cookbook recently. For years, pastry chefs have weighed their ingredients in 
grams, and now its standard for all corners of a restaurant kitchen. If youve 
baked using a digital scale, you know it is very easy to use and delivers 
better results with less mess or waste.

And its not just the coffee you should weigh. Ideally, you would also weigh 
your water, or at least measure volume in liters, rather than cups or ounces. 
Heres why: When you brew coffee, youre working with a ratio, a certain amount 
of coffee to water that you can scale up or down depending on how much you want 
to make. Most Americans do this with scoops and cups, meaning the cup 
measurements marked on the coffee machine. But a cup on a coffee machine is 
usually five ounces (not eight), and a scoop is arbitrary (there is no standard 
measurement). Its a messy system.

If you are going to the trouble of creating that ratio every morning, you may 
as well do it right. A good benchmark is 55 grams of coffee to 1,000 grams (or 
one liter) of water, which is the Golden Cup Ratio of the Specialty Coffee 
Association of America. Dont let the metric system scare you; it actually makes 
doing any math much easier.

As for the scale itself, an inexpensive one is all you need; be sure it has a 
capacity of at least two kilograms. But if you want to nudge open the door of 
coffee obsession, consider the Hario V60 scale ($60), which is accurate up to 
0.01 of a gram, has a built-in timer and comes in Death Star matte black.
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[USMA 23] Re: Paris Agreement in Degrees Celsius

[Carleton MacDonald]

The Washington Post has been reporting extensively on these meetings and for 
the most part has stopped converting Celsius into Fahrenheit. They seem to feel 
that people now understand Celsius. I suspect the country could make that 
conversion outside of other metrication fairly easily. The main thing would be 
getting people to understand what is hot, what is pleasant, what is cold, etc. 
without having to convert in their heads.

After all we are I think the last country to still measure temperature "Old 
School" ...

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: USMA [mailto:usma-boun...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of c...@traditio.com
Sent: Monday, December 14, 2015 13:30
To: USMA List Server 
Subject: [USMA 21] Paris Agreement in Degrees Celsius

I was interested to note that in the reporting I heard about the Paris "climate 
control" agreement, the goal was, except in one case, stated as
"1 degree Celsius."  Only in one instance did a reporter add "1.8 degrees 
Fahrenheit."  It was nice to hear the whole Celsius number, whereas Fahrenheit 
had to add a decimal point!

I think that this reporting reflects my suspicion that news media are (1) 
becoming more internationalized and (2) are generally too lazy, or in too much 
of a rush, to convert units from metric.  (2) would imply that the news media 
now assume that Americans are at least somewhat conversant with metric unit.  
Associated Press, which has always been a Luddite as far as metric is 
concerned, is shrinkin in importance compared to Reuters and AFP, which are 
more international in flavor.
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[USMA:54865] Discussion with Dyson regarding a fan/heater unit I bought at Costco

[Carleton MacDonald]

The device is both a heater and a fan. You set the temperature you want and the 
unit warms the area until it is at that temperature. To use it as a fan you 
turn the temperature all the way down to 32 deg F. There is no option to change 
the temperature reading to Celsius – that is, no F/C switch or any other 
setting.

 

Apparently if the unit is sold anywhere else in the world it is set to Celsius. 

 

The dimensions of the unit are all in millimeters. It is only the temperature 
setting that is messed up.

 

It is a very good unit otherwise.

 

Carleton

 

 

 

From: Dyson Online Support [mailto:supp...@dyson.com] 
Sent: Saturday, October 03, 2015 22:29
To: Carleton MacDonald <carlet...@comcast.net>
Subject: Re: AM05 temperature setting

 

Dear Carleton, 

Thank you for contacting Dyson. 

We are happy to hear you are satisfied with your new Hot+Cool! We can not 
change the temperature as it is intended for use in the US only, which is why 
it is programmed to Fahrenheit. Please let us know if we can help you with 
registering your new AM05 online.  

If you have any further questions or concerns, please do not hesitate to 
contact us at  <mailto:questi...@dyson.com> questi...@dyson.com. We are always 
happy to help.

Kind regards, (ah)
Dyson Online Support 
For product support, troubleshooting videos and more visit
 <http://www.dyson.com/support> www.dyson.com/support 
1-866-MY-DYSON (1-866-693-9766)
 <mailto:questi...@dyson.com> questi...@dyson.com

 

 

 

- Original Message -
From: Carleton MacDonald <carlet...@comcast.net <mailto:carlet...@comcast.net> >
Date: 10/3/2015 7:47:39 PM
To: supp...@dyson.com <mailto:supp...@dyson.com> 
Subject: AM05 temperature setting

I bought an AM05 fan/heater at Costco today. It is very nice indeed. However, 
the temperature only reads in Fahrenheit. How can I change the temperature to 
read in Celsius?

 

Carleton MacDonald

[USMA:54847] RE: Feedback Concern: Coffee and Tea questions

[Carleton MacDonald]

I drink Peet’s coffee and use a coffee grinder. I find that one scoop* of 
coffee per 100 ml of water works just fine. 300 ml is a mug. So if I want two 
for me, two for my neighbor and one for my son, that’s 1500 ml of water and 15 
heaping scoops of coffee.

 

I have this refrigerator I bought from Sears at half price; it was a floor 
model, and the last one, and I needed a refrigerator that day. It has an auto 
fill feature in the water dispenser. Put the vessel in it, push autofill, and 
it stops near the top. (I don’t exactly know how the refrigerator does it, but 
it works.) The display screen was quickly changed to show milliliters.

 

*the scoop that came with the coffee grinder; I’ve never actually measured what 
it holds

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Edward Schlesinger
Sent: Monday, August 31, 2015 23:11
To: U.S. Metric Association 
Subject: [USMA:54846] Feedback Concern: Coffee and Tea questions

 




Hi All,

I wanted to share a response my spouse and I received from Peet's Coffee and 
Tea.

We brought a bag of ground coffee. When we were going to perculate some, we 
read the directions and I thought it was asking for to much ground coffee since 
I know 2 teaspoons are 10g. So I wrote to customer service and got this reply:

 

Feedback Concern: Coffee and Tea questions.

 

Feedback or question: The instructions on the label of Espresso Forte read that 
we should measure 2 TBSP (10 g) per 6 oz of water. However, 10 g equals 2 tsp. 
So, it seems to us that you're labeling instructions are incorrect. So, we 
measured 12 tsp for our percolator which holds 4 1/2 8 oz cups.

-- 

Sincerely,
Edward B.

 

Stephany (Peet's Coffee and Tea)

Aug 27, 8:53 AM

 

Hi Sarah and Edward,

 

Thanks for your email. In checking the website for "The Basics-Coffee FAQ", 
here is what they say about measuring coffee:

 

A standard "cup" of coffee uses six ounces (177 ml) of water. The SCAA's 
standard measure of ground coffee for this quantity of wateer is 10 grams (+/- 
1 gram) or slightly over a third of an ounce (or, simply, two tablespoons).

 

I believe measurement depends on the items being weighed.

 

We appreciate your business and your time in contacting us, and let me know 
what additional comments you have.

 

Warmest regards,

 

 

Stephany | Customer Service Specialist | Peet's Coffee & Tea

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[USMA:54814] Windmill article in The Washington Post

[Carleton MacDonald]

100% SI. And not one unit dumbed down, not one conversion shown. Nice.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/energy-environment/wp/2015/08/10/the-boom
-in-wind-energy-couldnt-be-coming-at-a-better-time/

 

 

Carleton

[USMA:54788] Re: State by State Option

[Carleton MacDonald]

Some email list servers work that way. The idea is that the message you sent is 
in your “Sent Items” folder. I’m on a couple of lists that work like that.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
David Pearl
Sent: Thursday, July 09, 2015 11:26
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54787] Re: State by State Option

 

Well I hope somebody fixes the server.

- Message from Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com 
mailto:metricmik...@gmail.com  -
   Date: Thu, 9 Jul 2015 12:11:57 +0200
   From: Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com mailto:metricmik...@gmail.com 
Subject: Re: [USMA:54786] State by State Option
 To: cont...@metricpioneer.com mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com 

I got this email and the 5 July email.

 

I think there is a problem with the server where the person sending the email 
never gets a copy but thereafter gets all emails associated with that topic.

 

Mike Payne

 

On 07 Jul 2015, at 21:40, David Pearl cont...@metricpioneer.com 
mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com  wrote:

 

I don't know if I am still having email problems. Did anyone get the 5 July 
email?

- Message from David Pearl cont...@metricpioneer.com 
mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com  -
Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2015 14:22:14 -0700
From: David Pearl cont...@metricpioneer.com 
mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com 
Reply-To: cont...@metricpioneer.com mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com 
Subject: [USMA:54776] Re: Email Problems
  To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 

Re: [USMA:54773] Re: labeling 1-liter bottles of Perrier

I have created a Go Metric! Facebook page for each of our fifty states. See a 
list on www.MetricPioneer.com http://www.MetricPioneer.com  for links to each 
state page. David Pearl 503-428-4917
P.S. This is my fifth attempt to send this messsage. Perhaps changing the 
Subject line will make a difference. David Pearl 503-428-4917

- Message from Jason Christopher Hudson jchud...@aol.com 
mailto:jchud...@aol.com  -
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2015 20:18:22 -0700
From: Jason Christopher Hudson jchud...@aol.com mailto:jchud...@aol.com 
Reply-To: jchud...@aol.com mailto:jchud...@aol.com 
Subject: [USMA:54773] Re: labeling 1-liter bottles of Perrier
  To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 
  Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 

Good Evening All:

I would like to participate in this forum, but would like to make sure that my 
messages are reaching everyone. I have been in the field of education for 
nineteen years, and have taught measurement to my students.

I agree with John Altounji that we need to focus on completing US metrication 
one state at a time. Many issues such as marriage equality have been advanced 
this way.

I believe there should be a focus on the money saved from no longer having to 
use two systems as well as other safety issues that arise from protracted use 
of dual units.

I also think it's important that metric-only labeling be the primary initial 
push towards metrication in the US, as most states, except NY and AL, have 
given the green light on this issue.  (Please correct me if I am wrong here.) 
Also, many US companies are in support of metric-only labeling.

Kindest regards,
Jason C. Hudson

- Message from James j...@metricmethods.com 
mailto:j...@metricmethods.com  -
   Date: Sun, 05 Jul 2015 16:15:42 -0500
   From: James j...@metricmethods.com mailto:j...@metricmethods.com 
Subject: Re: [USMA:54775] Email Problems
 To: cont...@metricpioneer.com mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com 

I got this one, David, but not your previous ones.

Jim

On 2015-07-05 15:55, David Pearl wrote:

I recently sent a message to the group about state-by-state metrication,
but I noticed that the email did not show up in my in box as it normally
would. I resent the next day, but again, it failed to show up. I am
wondering if anyone in the USMA email group can see this test message or
the duplicate email messages I recently sent. David Pearl 503-428-4917

--
James R. Frysinger
632 Stoney Point Mountain Road
Doyle TN 38559-3030

(C) 931.212.0267
(H) 931.657.3107(F) 931.657.3108




- End message from James j...@metricmethods.com 
mailto:j...@metricmethods.com  -
 




- End message from David Pearl cont...@metricpioneer.com 
mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com  -
 




- End message from Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com 
mailto:metricmik...@gmail.com  -

[USMA:54770] Re: labeling 1-liter bottles of Perrier

[Carleton MacDonald]

This is because very old manual typewriters did not have a one key; the
numerals went from 2 through 0 only. Everyone was taught back then to type a
lower case L to get one. For people who learned a long time ago this is
a finger pattern hard to break.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Patrick Moore
Sent: Thursday, July 02, 2015 14:36
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54766] Re: labeling 1-liter bottles of Perrier

Lowercase el is ambiguous because it looks like the numeral one. I see no
advantage in the lowercase el for liter.

In my first month on the job as an editor, 30 years ago, I corrected several
dozen places where the typographer had entered an el to mean one. It was an
old habit in someone who had learned to type on an old pica typewriter,
where the same keystroke made both characters. In the Courier font on your
computer today, el and one still look very similar.

Cubic decimeter is a useful alternative for calculations of nonliquid
volumes.

From: mechtly, eugene a
mech...@illinois.edumailto:mech...@illinois.edu
Reply-To: mech...@illinois.edumailto:mech...@illinois.edu
mech...@illinois.edumailto:mech...@illinois.edu
Date: Thursday, July 2, 2015 12:11 PM
To: U.S. Metric Association
usma@colostate.edumailto:usma@colostate.edu
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
usma@colostate.edumailto:usma@colostate.edu
Subject: [USMA:54765] Re: labeling 1-liter bottles of Perrier

In the Netherlands it it 1 Liter; in Germany, 1 l, all three.  Thanks
Martin.
On Jul 2, 2015, at 4:39 AM, Martin Vlietstra
vliets...@btinternet.commailto:vliets...@btinternet.com wrote:

Hi Stanislav,
I don't know about bottling plants, but L is often used when advertising
Perrier water in Europe.

I have a selection of advertisements, some of which show L and some of
which show l:

United Kingdom:
http://www.tesco.com/groceries/product/details/?id=274501973
http://www.waitrose.com/shop/DisplayProductFlyout?productId=50549
http://www.sainsburys.co.uk/shop/gb/groceries/sparkling-water/perrier-sparkl
ing-mineral-water-750ml

Netherlands:
http://www.ah.nl/producten/product/wi198722/perrier-mineraalwater-koolzuurho
udend

Germany:
http://www.amazon.de/PERRIER-nat%C3%BCrliches-kohlens%C3%A4urehaltiges-Miner
alwasser-Frankreich/dp/B0051BLCCI
http://german.alibaba.com/product-tp/perrier-mineral-water-for-export-fob-eu
rope-117971051.html
http://www.kaufen.com/Preisvergleich/result.jsp?ga=g37q=mineralwasser+perri
er

France:
http://www.carrefour.fr/search/site/--perrier/15
http://www.auchandirect.fr/boissons/eaux/eaux-gazeuses/id0/663
It should be remembered that in Continental Europe, the hand-written number
1 usually has a long leading stroke - see for example the picture at
https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:FM_IMG_2024.JPGhttps://urldefense.p
roofpoint.com/v2/url?u=https-3A__commons.wikimedia.org_wiki_File-3AFM-5FIMG-
5F2024.JPGd=AwMFaQc=8hUWFZcy2Z-Za5rBPlktOQr=BpxbfWo0gcPQHL0R58p0D96tVlzZl
sjR_iWGK6ETi80m=sOg077__2SoziT2D6rMe_Mp9fMHkenze5ohZNL-PNiAs=MlvlrexBixwB4
ACIZZVyfjuQbaDnIibsAVbRxzccDAke=.

Martin

From: owner-u...@colostate.edumailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of Stanislav Jakuba
Sent: 02 July 2015 00:03
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54762] Re: labeling 1-liter bottles of Perrier

Paul:
The European bottles-filling plant had never seen L as symbol for dm3.
Always the l (lower case el). You might have a better success with that.


On Wed, Jul 1, 2015 at 2:13 PM, mechtly, eugene a
mech...@illinois.edumailto:mech...@illinois.edu wrote:
Paul,

Let us know when Perrier labels one liter bottles as 1 L.

I drink all my water from a tap, not from a bottle, so I will not detect
this improvement by Perrier.

Eugene Mechtly

 On Jun 29, 2015, at 10:47 PM, Paul Trusten
trus...@grandecom.netmailto:trus...@grandecom.net wrote:


 Dear Perrier makers,

 Please place the 1 L in large type on your one-liter bottles! I suppose
you have to include the fluid ounces for auld lang syne, but I want to be
able to tell the difference between the 1 L and the 750 mL sizes AT A
GLANCE, and  can't do that with ounces and quarts cluttering up tge field.
If, as you say on your Web site, your 1 L size is popular, then please
reflect this popularity on your label design.


 Thanks,

 Paul Trusten
 Midland TX USA

[USMA:54758] Re: Metric Financial Services; Immigrants

[Carleton MacDonald]

Immigrants may have a strong desire to fit in to American life, and part
of doing that is accepting the colloquial American way of measuring things.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Paul Trusten
Sent: Saturday, June 27, 2015 15:20
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54757] Re: Metric Financial Services; Immigrants

Great question and a longtime question of mine, Martin. I wonder if
immigrants to the U.S. have been discouraged by the status quo from asking
for metrication.  It may be a commentary on the lack of popularity of the
subject in some circles, yet there is an advocacy among some in favor of it,
usually the occasional journalist, and now Gov. Chaffee.



 On Jun 27, 2015, at 13:57, c...@traditio.com c...@traditio.com wrote:
 
 I was pleased to hear this morning a syndicated financial program on many
U.S. radio stations used square meters and kilograms to describe a new
farming technique in Kansas.  No Customary units, no apologies.
(www.edelmanfinancial.com).
 
 One factor in metrication that I haven't heard discussed is the increasing
number of foreigners that are coming into the United States, legally and
illegally, particularly from Latin countries that use metric (Mexico, etc.)
I wonder why there hasn't been more of a push from these groups for more
metric.  I notice that Mark Henschel's program on National Public Radio
included two call-ins from European immigants, who advocated the metric
system.
 
 Martin Morrison,
 Columnist, USMA Today
 
 

[USMA:54669] Re: Iowa State editorial

[Carleton MacDonald]

An easy way to get around that is how wallboard in some countries is sized:
2400 x 1200 mm.

Can divide by 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 8, 10, 12.

There is no rule that just because you are metric your sizes have to be even
meters.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Martin Vlietstra
Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 18:25
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54668] Re: Iowa State editorial

One regular complaint of the anti-metric lobby is that 10 is not divisible
by 3 or 4. This is quite true - a fact that was not lost on the committee
that was set up by the French Government in 1790 to investigate weights and
measures and in particular the fact that the pied (foot)  and the livre
(pound) had different values depending on where the user was  and what
commodity was being bought or sold. The five members of the committee were
the five most able scientists of the day and included Laplace and Lagrange
(whose names are known to every undergraduate maths, physics or engineering
student today).  Their conclusions were:

1.  Counting and subdivisions of units of measure should have the same
radix - the favoured values being 10 or 12.

2.  From a philosophical point of view, radix 12 was better than radix
10.

3.  The problems of replacing a decimal counting system with a
duodecimal counting system was however doomed to failure. Thus, units of
measure should use the same radix as was used for counting, even if this
meant sacrificing divisibility by 3 and 4.

With all due respect to the Dozenal Society of America and the Dozenal
Society of Great Britain, I do not see any prospect of the nations of the
world changing to a base-12 system of counting - the use of decimal counting
is too ingrained in our society to make such a change feasible.  In the
early days of the metric system, time was decimalised - the French
Revolutionary Calendar had 10 days in a week,  10 hours in a day and 100
minutes in an hour. This has long since been abandoned 

In short, there was a very strong commercial pressure for the French to sort
out their weights and measures, but the system of measuring time worked, so
there was no commercial pressure to change it.  That  is why the second is
the base unit of time rather than the metric second (0.864 seconds).

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Patrick Moore
Sent: 25 March 2015 20:01
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54667] Re: Iowa State editorial

The long link did not work even with Facebook for me, but the following did
work, without Facebook:
http://www.iowastatedaily.com/opinion/article_445f120c-d0aa-11e4-86a1-9bb97d
e9119e.html?mode=jqm

The author (Clay Rogers) clearly has emotional issues and is unlikely to
change his mind. The editors are listed here:
http://www.iowastatedaily.com/home/contact_us

From: Mark Henschel mwhensch...@gmail.commailto:mwhensch...@gmail.com
Reply-To: mwhensch...@gmail.commailto:mwhensch...@gmail.com
mwhensch...@gmail.commailto:mwhensch...@gmail.com
Date: Wednesday, March 25, 2015 3:01 PM
To: U.S. Metric Association
usma@colostate.edumailto:usma@colostate.edu
Subject: [USMA:54666] Iowa State editorial

For those of you who are not on facebook, there was an article posted
recently from the Iowa State University student newspaper that was very
antimetric.
Paul Trusten and I both responded.
Here is my response:

Sadly, the author of this article really has no convincing arguments as to
why he prefers the customary system over the SI metric system. I get the
feeling he really does not have much evidence and is looking around to find
some argument that sounds plausible to support his position. The fact is
that the Metric System is easy. It was designed on purpose to be simple.
Everything, from designing and building houses and airplanes to mixing
chemicals or food is much easier using metric units. Anyone who has actually
done anything or created anything using both systems can tell quite quickly
how much easier it is to do anything that involves any amount of calculating
using a decimal system rather than a system based on, let's see, maybe 12,
maybe 3, maybe 16, or maybe even 5,280.
There is a reason the entire world uses the Metric System, and why more and
more Americans are seeing the advantages of using the international system
of measurements, now called SI. It is easy. SI is simple to use, and
facilitates communication. As those much smarter than myself have already
pointed out, there is no if in metrication. Metrication is only a matter
of when, not if.


Link to the article in question in case anybody else wants to respond:

(http://www.iowastatedaily.com/opinion/article_445f120c-d0aa-11e4-86a1-9bb97
de9119e.html?mode=jqmhttp://l.facebook.com/l/KAQHkp6Vp/www.iowastatedaily.c
om/opinion/article_445f120c-d0aa-11e4-86a1-9bb97de9119e.html?mode=jqm)

[USMA:54618] RE: Metric drone legislation

[Carleton MacDonald]

If it’s the Associated Press it is always their policy to dumb down the 
measurements.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Michael Payne
Sent: Monday, February 16, 2015 16:27
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54617] Metric drone legislation

 

Reading the proposed rules, I see the limits are actually 25 kg and 2 kg for 
Unmanned air vehicles, aka drones. Figures have been rounded by the media to 55 
lbs and 4,4 lbs.

 

Mike

 




FAA Unveils Long Awaited Small Drone Draft Regulation


The FAA unveiled its highly anticipated proposed regulation for the commercial 
use of small drones weighing less than 55 pounds yesterday, coinciding with the 
release of a Presidential memorandum setting privacy guidelines for federal 
agencies that use unmanned aircraft systems (UAS). Under the FAA’s proposed 
rule, which it called a “framework of regulations,” operators would be required 
to fly drones within their unaided line of sight, to a maximum altitude of 500 
feet above ground level and during daylight hours. Flights in airspace sectors 
other than Class G uncontrolled airspace would require local ATC permission to 
maintain a buffer between manned and unmanned aircraft. The rule contains a 
“micro UAS option” that would permit more flexible operation in Class G 
airspace for drones weighing 4.4 pounds or less. Significantly, the regulation 
would not require small drone operators to have a pilot certificate. Rather, 
they would need a “newly created FAA unmanned aircraft operator’s permit.” 
Also, the FAA would not require small drones to be certified for airworthiness; 
instead, they must be maintained in a safe condition for flight. The FAA’s 
conditions must survive a rulemaking process that could take 18 months or 
longer. The agency will accept public comments for 60 days from the date the 
NPRM appears in the Federal Register. “Today’s action does not authorize 
widespread commercial use of unmanned aircraft,” Huerta advised. “That can only 
happen when the rule is final.”

 

[USMA:54608] Re: Fwd: Your Support for Senate Bill 166 would Help Oregon Global Interoperability

[Carleton MacDonald]

The political issue comes from the need for government action to finally make 
metrication happen. Some view that as “Government telling me what to do” (even 
if it is acknowledged to be a good idea otherwise) and they are violently 
opposed to that.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Mark Henschel
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 10:36
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54606] Re: Fwd: Your Support for Senate Bill 166 would Help 
Oregon Global Interoperability

 

If you go back and check out the history, it was Maurice Stans (a Republican) 
under Richard Nixon (R) who proposed metric conversion back in 1973. Gerald 
Ford (R) signed the Metric Conversion Act into law. George Herbert Walker Bush 
signed EO 12770, and Bill Clinton (D) updated the FPLA to allow dual package 
labeling, One would think people from both parties would support metrication. 
The saddest part to me is the President of change Barack Obama shows no 
interest in changing measuring systems.

 

Looks like more of an issue of science and math literacy rather than a 
political issue (left versus right)

 

 

Mark

 

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 2:50 AM, Martin Vlietstra vliets...@btinternet.com 
mailto:vliets...@btinternet.com  wrote:

May I remind readers that two of the original designers of the metric system 
were ministers of religion - Watkins (An Anglican (Episcopalian) bishop) and 
Mouton  (a French Catholic priest) while the government that actually put the 
metric system into place (the French Revolutionary Government) was avowedly 
atheist.


-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu  
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu ] On Behalf 
Of James
Sent: 12 February 2015 02:36
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54603] Re: Fwd: Your Support for Senate Bill 166 would Help 
Oregon Global Interoperability

 Surprisingly enough, he is a Republican.

Oh? Is the SI a Democratic Party plank item? Or opposition to it a Republican 
Party plank item? I wasn't aware that metrology was so political! Nor that the 
issue of SI adoption was split along party lines. Perhaps the pro-SI party 
should invite the CGPM to register as a PAC in their support!

Grin.

Jim

On 2015-02-07 16:08, cont...@metricpioneer.com 
mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com  wrote:
 I visited each Senate office at the Oregon Capital building yesterday
 afternoon. Most senators were out, so I spoke with their subordinates
 or left a paper in each empty office. I spoke with Senator Devlin
 (District
 19) and Senator Hansel (District 29); those two do NOT support Senate
 Bill 166. I got a lot of promises of an eventual response to my query.
 We have three supporters and two non-supporters so far out of a total
 of thirty senators. Senator Brian Boquist is the bill sponsor.
 Surprisingly enough, he is a Republican.
 https://olis.leg.state.or.us/liz/2015R1/Measures/Overview/SB166
 David Pearl www.MetricPioneer.com http://www.MetricPioneer.com  
 503-428-4917 tel:503-428-4917  See the message (below)
 that I just sent out:

 - Forwarded message from cont...@metricpioneer.com 
 mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com 
 mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com  -
 Date: Sat, 07 Feb 2015 13:28:58 -0800
 From: cont...@metricpioneer.com mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com  
 mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com 
 Subject: Your Support for Senate Bill 166 would Help Oregon Global
 Interoperability
   To: Sen Kruse sen.jeffkr...@state.or.us 
 mailto:sen.jeffkr...@state.or.us 
 mailto:Sen.JeffKruse@state. mailto:Sen.JeffKruse@state. .or.us 
 http://or.us , Sen Baertschiger
 sen.hermanbaertschi...@state.or.us 
 mailto:sen.hermanbaertschi...@state.or.us 
 mailto:sen.hermanbaertschi...@state.or.us 
 mailto:sen.hermanbaertschi...@state.or.us , Sen Bates
 sen.alanba...@state.or.us mailto:sen.alanba...@state.or.us  
 mailto:sen.alanba...@state.or.us mailto:sen.alanba...@state.or.us , Sen
 Prozanski sen.floydprozan...@state.or.us 
 mailto:sen.floydprozan...@state.or.us 
 mailto:sen.floydprozan...@state.or.us 
 mailto:sen.floydprozan...@state.or.us , Sen Roblan
 sen.arnierob...@state.or..us mailto:sen.arnierob...@state.or.us 
 mailto:sen.arnierob...@state.or.us ,
 Sen Beyer sen.leebe...@state.or.us mailto:sen.leebe...@state.or.us 
 mailto:sen.leebe...@state.or.us mailto:sen.leebe...@state.or.us , Sen 
 Edwards
 sen.chrisedwa...@state.or.us mailto:sen.chrisedwa...@state.or.us  
 mailto:sen.chrisedwa...@state.or.us mailto:sen.chrisedwa...@state.or.us ,
 Sen Gelser sen.saragel...@state.or.us mailto:sen.saragel...@state.or.us 
 mailto:sen.saragel...@state.or.us mailto:sen.saragel...@state.or.us , 
 Sen Girod
 sen.fredgi...@state.or.us mailto:sen.fredgi...@state.or.us  
 mailto:sen.fredgi...@state.or.us mailto:sen.fredgi...@state.or.us ,
 Sen Winters 

[USMA:54615] Re: petition to get the FPLA updated

[Carleton MacDonald]

I just signed it too.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
mechtly, eugene a
Sent: Thursday, February 12, 2015 17:27
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54613] Re: petition to get the FPLA updated

 

Mark, 

 

I found your petition at the link you give below.  I “signed” your petition, 
and authorized public notice of that fact.

 

Gene. 

 

On Feb 12, 2015,3:30 PM, Mark Henschel mwhensch...@gmail.com 
mailto:mwhensch...@gmail.com  wrote: 

 

I thought it was all done and posted. This is the link I have, and I thought it 
was working:
https://www.change.org/p/us-congress-update-the-fair-packaging-and-labeling-act

 

On Thu, Feb 12, 2015 at 3:14 PM, mechtly, eugene a mech...@illinois.edu 
mailto:mech...@illinois.edu  wrote:

Mark. 

 

I want to sign your petition at change.org http://change.org/  to amend the 
FPLA to permit metric-only labeling.

 

When do you expect it to be available for signatures?

 

Gene Mechtly.

 

On Feb 12, 2015, at 10:23 AM, Mark Henschel mwhensch...@gmail.com 
mailto:mwhensch...@gmail.com  wrote:

 

Well, here is the news on my FPLA petition. 

I did get over 50 signatures, and a message from Moveon.org 
http://moveon.org/  telling me it was ready to be delivered. I then sent an 
email asking them delivered where? and how much would it cost?

Well, no response, and all I ever get from Moveon.org http://moveon.org/  is 
requests for money.I tried calling them on the phone, but it appears they do 
not have a telephone, or don't believe in using it if they have one.

 

I'm trying a new petition on change.org http://change.org/ .

 

I'd appreciate it very much if everybody on the USMA listserver would please 
consider signing it. If I get 100 signatures they might do something with it, 
I'm not sure what, but at this point I am ready to hire my own lobbyist on this 
issue.

 

I know there are services in Washington that will send messages to all 435 
Congressmen and 100 Senators and I might have to go that route if nothing else 
works. I'm gambling that there are people in both parties that are willing to 
consider the issue, they just don't know about it because lots of other issues 
are the ones that wind up in the newspapers or internet news services.

 

Anyway, if you could sign the petition, I'd appreciate it, and perhaps this one 
will actually go someplace.

Mark Henschel

 

 

 

[USMA:54588] Barney and Clyde comic strip today, January 25, 2015

[Carleton MacDonald]

 

Or click this link:

 

http://www.gocomics.com/barneyandclyde#mutable_1257182

 

Carleton

[USMA:54545] Re: Anger over Celsius-only Grill Thermometer

[Carleton MacDonald]

A bigger gripe is that there was no way to turn it off except by removing
the batteries.

cm

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of -
Sent: Tuesday, December 30, 2014 13:36
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54544] Re: Anger over Celsius-only Grill Thermometer

The outrage expressed in the reviews could have been obviated by an accurate
product description.  The description on both sites reads:  Set temperature
range: 32 to 572 (0 to 300).  This description, which gives the range in
degrees Fahrenheit and then Celsius in parentheses, would indicate that the
thermometer displays both scales.

Instead, the description should read:  Temperatures displayed in degrees
Celsius only (0 to 300).  Then, those who didn't want Celsius would not
have bought the product and would not have left an irate review.

I have noticed that on Amazon product descriptions are not infrequently
copied mindlessly from sources that are not adequately checked to ensure
that the description matches the actual product for sale.  The reviewers' 
point is not that they are against Celsius, but that the product description
was wrong, and they bought a product they didn't want.  I sympathize.

Martin Morrison
Metric Today Columnist

[USMA:54531] RE: FW: ID Card in Jordan

[Carleton MacDonald]

True. Measuring a person’s height in millimeters implies too much precision 
(and isn’t all that accurate down to four places; people’s height varies by 
several millimeters depending on how stretched out your spine is at any 
moment), and meters creates a decimal point.

 

Carleton

179 cm

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Martin Vlietstra
Sent: Saturday, December 27, 2014 07:34
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54530] RE: FW: ID Card in Jordan

 

In some countries, blood sugar level is measured in mg/dL. I believe that the 
use of dL rather than litres or mL is to avoid using decimal separators.  A 
blood level are typically in the range of 75 to 150 mg/dL. This could be 
written as 0.75 to 1.5 mg/mL or 750 to 1500 mg/L.  The first of these has 
decimal separators and the second has a “surplus” zeros.  The same argument 
applies to the use of centimetres rather than metres for people’s heights. 

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu  
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of John Altounji
Sent: 25 December 2014 01:40
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54528] FW: ID Card in Jordan

 

In this case cm is the preferable unit.  Anyway, metric includes multiples and 
submultiples of the main unit.

 

John Altounji
One size does not fit all.
Social promotion ruined Education.

http://johnaltounji.weebly.com/

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu  
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of cont...@metricpioneer.com 
mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com 
Sent: Wednesday, December 24, 2014 2:12 PM
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54527] ID Card in Jordan

 

How is personal height rendered on ID cards around the world? Every card I have 
ever seen renders height in centimeters only. I have never seen an ID card 
rendering height in meters (for example 1.81 meters; I always say 181 
centimeters, which is my height). The photo attached shows the ID card of this 
captured Jordanian soldier as 178 and does not even bother mentioning that 
those are centimeters, since it is common knowledge. When considering which 
unit to use for any purpose, it is preferable, in my opinion, to avoid having 
to use a decimal. It just makes your number a lot cleaner. Also, take notice of 
the date format and the absence of how heavy one is. Any thoughts? David Pearl 
www.MetricPioneer.com http://www.MetricPioneer.com  503-428-4917

[USMA:54518] RE: Fw: Posting of NIST SP 1181

[Carleton MacDonald]

In French-speaking areas, I’ve often seen a space between the $ and the number, 
and a space before a ? or a !. Over 100 years ago that was fairly common in 
English writing too (I’ve got some old books).

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
John M. Steele
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2014 19:39
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54517] Fw: Posting of NIST SP 1181

 

Ignore prior note.  I found the document at the link below:

http://www.nist.gov/pml/wmd/pubs/upload/SP1181-Unit-Pricing-Guide.pdf

 

I do stand on the comment below. Allowing different Customary units in a 
category across stores makes unit pricing relatively useless to compare between 
stores.  Therefore I am sure Customary useless pricing will be universal if 
allowed.

 

Other reactions:

*I am not not sure using a font for unit pricing that is 50% of retail price 
font is adequate. I think the blocks should not be equal width, but, for 
example, 1/3, 2/3 so the unit price declaration (which is longer, can use the 
same font.

 

The word per seems unnecessary and adds length to the declaration.  I would 
at least allow, perhaps require, replacing it with a slash (/) as $2.10/L not 
$2.10 per liter as shown in one example.  The shorter declaration would help 
allow for a larger font that my old eyes could actually read.

 

*Is it customary to use a space after the $ sign or before the ¢ sign? I have 
never done so.  In SI, it is required between number and SI unit.

 

- Forwarded Message -
From: John Steele johnmste...@yahoo.com mailto:johnmste...@yahoo.com 
To: mech...@illinois.edu mailto:mech...@illinois.edu  mech...@illinois.edu 
mailto:mech...@illinois.edu ; U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
mailto:usma@colostate.edu  
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2014 6:02 PM
Subject: Re: [USMA:54516] Posting of NIST SP 1181

 

Can you post a link?  I searched via Google and on NIST website and couldn't 
find it.

 

If the goal is to compare unit prices between stores, then two or more choices 
for the same unit (ounce and pound for mass) can not be permited.  Many 
consumers simply don't know the relationships.  It would be much worse for 
fluid volumes, price per fl oz, pint, quart, or gallon.

 

Best Practice: Metric only

Marginal Practice: One Customary unit for mass, one for volume, mandated by 
legislation

Worst Practice: Plethora of units for each type of measurement (mass, volunme, 
etc)

 

  _  

From: mechtly, eugene a mech...@illinois.edu mailto:mech...@illinois.edu 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Friday, December 19, 2014 1:56 PM
Subject: [USMA:54516] Posting of NIST SP 1181


Today, December 19, OWM of NIST posted Special Publication 1181.

The title is “Unit Pricing Guide”;  “A Best Practice Approach to Unit Pricing”

On Page 9 is the statement: “The following units and these only must be used.

Metric Units of Measurement are accepted, the foundation of “Best Practice.

In addition to the SI Units, many units from outside the SI are also accepted.

Some of these are: price per ounce, and price per pound;

and price per fluid ounce, per pint, per quart, and per gallon.

In my opinion inclusion of non-decimally related units are a lost opportunity 
to make unit pricing, more independent of package sizes.

Decimal multiples only (1, 10, 100, 1000) in the denominators of unit prices 
would make value comparisons much easier for consumers.

Our currency is decimal based, why is the marketing of consumer commodities not 
yet completely decimal based?

Eugene Mechtly




 

[USMA:54469] Re: What to call non SI measures. Legacy Measures

[Carleton MacDonald]

Actually, I've been a member for years, and subscribe.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
James
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 13:52
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54464] Re: What to call non SI measures. Legacy Measures

I've been a member of USMA and also this mail list for about 2 decades now. As 
I recall, this topic has come up many, many times. It seems to be an old 
favorite.

It also seems apparent to me that nobody taking part in this thread subscribes 
to the USMA's Metric Today, which is a pity. I base that on the lack of mention 
here about Metric Today's quotation of the NCWM's recommended name for the 
collection of non-SI measurement units used in the US. Not surprisingly, that 
is also the term that NIST tends to use when referring to those units.

As a holiday present to yourselves, why don't you all join USMA and thus 
subscribe to Metric Today? The cost is very small and it supports a great 
organization -- the one that provides this forum, with courteous free support 
by Colorado State University's web server.

Jim


--
James R. Frysinger
632 Stoney Point Mountain Road
Doyle TN 38559-3030

(C) 931.212.0267
(H) 931.657.3107
(F) 931.657.3108

On 2014-11-17 12:12, j...@frewston.plus.com wrote:
 We had this conversation once before a year or two ago. Going from 
 memory, I believe the word ‘obsolete’ was felt to be sufficiently 
 negative and descriptive without being too derogatory.
 John F-L
 *From:* CARLETON mailto:carlet...@comcast.net
 *Sent:* Monday, November 17, 2014 5:35 PM
 *To:* U.S. Metric Association mailto:usma@colostate.edu
 *Cc:* USMA mailto:usma@colostate.edu
 *Subject:* [USMA:54460] Re: What to call non SI measures. Legacy 
 Measures Does the word legacy have sufficient negative connotations, though?
 Carleton
 --
 --
 *From: *Howard R Ressel (DOT) howard.res...@dot.ny.gov
 *To: *USMA usma@colostate.edu
 *Sent: *Monday, November 17, 2014 8:22:01 AM
 *Subject: *[USMA:54459] Re: What to call non SI measures.  Legacy 
 Measures

 Hm I think Paul T,. coined WOMBAT as Way of Measuring Badly in America 
 Today.

 Howard Ressel

 Project Design Engineer

 NYSDOT

 1530 Jefferson Road

 Rochester, NY 14623

 585 272-3372

 43,560 square feet in an acre
 5280 feet in a mile
 16 ounces in a pound
 128 ounces in a gallon

 23 confused kids in a class

 What could be simpler?

 *From:*owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] *On 
 Behalf Of *Michael Payne
 *Sent:* Sunday, November 16, 2014 7:59 AM
 *To:* U.S. Metric Association
 *Cc:* USMA
 *Subject:* [USMA:54457] Re: What to call non SI measures. Legacy 
 Measures

 Many of us have for years been calling them WOMBAT, Waste Of Money 
 Brains And Time. But of course the general public is not going to 
 understand this term. So Legacy sounds good.

 Mike Payne

 On 16 Nov 2014, at 09:47, Parker Willey Jr. pawil...@pacbell.net
 mailto:pawil...@pacbell.net wrote:

 What to call non SI measures.

 In the United States, we currently refer to non SI measures usually
 as inch-pound or customary measurements.  I think we should use
 a different term, legacy measures.  Examples: legacy miles, legacy
 gallons, legacy inches, etc.  Legacy measures would apply to all
 non-SI measures.

 If the general public hears older measures referred to as Legacy
 often, they would soon see them as old and want to go metric.

 ...Parker Willey Jr.

 San Jose, CA

 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com
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 11/17/14

[USMA:54414] RE: Editorial : End of Road for Metric System

[Carleton MacDonald]

The Washington Times is a right-wing screed owned by Moon's Unification
Church, and was started in 1983 as an outlet for Moon and his philosophy. It
has very low circulation and is heavily subsidized by the church.

 

cm

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of John M. Steele
Sent: Thursday, October 09, 2014 11:48
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54413] Editorial : End of Road for Metric System

 

This editorial is a possible contender for the most anti-metric diatribe
ever published in a real newspaper. The good news: At the moment, all
comments to the article stand in opposition.

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/oct/7/editorial-end-of-the-road-for
-the-metric-system/

 

 

[USMA:54355] Re: Good Question: Why are speed limits posted in kilometers?

[Carleton MacDonald]

Until the following happens in this country, things that affect everyday life 
and not behind-the-scenes manufacturing, I don’t think we are a whole lot on 
the way at all:

 

People measured in kg and m

Gasoline sold by the liter

Roads marked in km – only

Speedometers in cars showing km – only

Food in the stores sold in g and kg only – not lb, and all remaining liquid 
food like milk in liters and ml only

A steak on a restaurant menu showing mass in grams and not ounces

etc.

 

Until then the average Joe Sixpak will never think anything has happened.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
cont...@metricpioneer.com
Sent: Monday, September 01, 2014 16:39
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54353] Re: Good Question: Why are speed limits posted in 
kilometers?

 

Martin Morrison. I agree with what you say. But I find it a bit strange that 
most people in this group still call it the Metric System, when we really 
should be using the current name. The eleventh CGPM (Conférence Générale des 
Poids et Mesures = General Conference on Weights and Measures) in 1960 faced 
the question of what to call this new reorganization and extension of measures. 
The name Metric System had referred to the units for length and mass. What the 
CGPM had created was much more comprehensive, and after some discussion, this 
new system was called the International System of units or SI after its French 
initials. For the first time, the world had not merely universal units, but a 
universal system of units. The Metric System became the International System 
the same year I was born, 1960, and after 54 years, you still refer to SI by 
its old name. It is beyond me! Does anyone want to justify using the old name? 

- Message from c...@traditio.com mailto:c...@traditio.com  -
Date: Mon, 1 Sep 2014 12:44:54 -0700 (PDT)
From: c...@traditio.com mailto:c...@traditio.com 
Reply-To: c...@traditio.com mailto:c...@traditio.com 
Subject: [USMA:54351] Re: Good Question: Why are speed limits posted in 
kilometers?
  To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 

Typically, we don't see the metric system in use here in the U.S.

This statement in the article indicates why we need to do a much better job of 
public education and stop talking about converting to the metric system and 
instead talking about completing metrication.

The metric system is already 50% here.  It is used in medicine, pharmacy, 
alcoholic and non-alcoholic beverages, light bulbs, power, radioactivity, and 
many other industries, while it is making headroads into other industries like 
food, where new products are often hard-sized to metric quantities.

I argue that the U.S. is no more non-metric than Canada and England, for 
example, which countries have not completed their metrication either. Let's 
stop talking about the U.S. being the only non-metric country in the world 
along with two unknown little countries.  We're on the way to complete 
metrication, just like certain other countries that haven't gotten there yet.

Martin Morrison
Metric Today Columnist



On Mon, 1 Sep 2014, cont...@metricpioneer.com 
mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com  wrote:

Good Question: Why are speed limits posted in kilometers?
http://www.nbc-2.com/story/24077659/good-question-why-are-speed-limits-posted-in-kilometers




- End message from c...@traditio.com mailto:c...@traditio.com  -
 

[USMA:54335] Re: Canada's Wonderland

[Carleton MacDonald]

Thanks to the 800 kg gorilla just to their south …

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
ezra.steinb...@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 20:32
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: USMA
Subject: [USMA:54332] Re: Canada's Wonderland

 

Probably because Canada is only a supposedly metric country.   ;-)

 

Canada does very well with temperature, barometric pressure, wind speed, longer 
distances and vehicle speeds. Other areas of Canadian life (as far as I can 
tell from down here in the USA) are all over the map when it comes to metric 
vs. Imperial.

 

  _  

From: Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com mailto:metricmik...@gmail.com 
To: USMA usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:07:19 PM
Subject: [USMA:54331] Canada's Wonderland

 

Amazingly Canada’s wonderland has height restrictions in inches only, which I 
find amazing for a supposedly metric country 
https://www.canadaswonderland.com/uploads/downloads/2012%20Rider%20Height%20Guide.pdf

 

Mike Payne

 

 

[USMA:54337] Re: Canada's Wonderland

[Carleton MacDonald]

That’s so the grandmothers and grandfathers can compare the new baby to ones 
that came prior, I’ve heard.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
ezra.steinb...@comcast.net
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 23:13
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: USMA
Subject: [USMA:54336] Re: Canada's Wonderland

 

That last bit is not too surprising since I seem to recall someone (Pat 
Naughtin?) mentioning that even in Australia one of the last Imperial 
measurements to disappear was a person's height.

 

  _  

From: John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net 
mailto:jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net 
To: Ezra, Steinberg ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
mailto:ezra.steinb...@comcast.net , USMA usma@colostate.edu 
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 6:20:21 PM
Subject: Re: [USMA:54332] Re: Canada's Wonderland

 

Vehicle speeds should probably be amended to all highway signs.  Distances, 
overhead clearances, etc are all metric.  But a lot of Canadians apparently use 
inches and pounds for personal height and weight.

 

  _  

From: ezra.steinb...@comcast.net mailto:ezra.steinb...@comcast.net  
ezra.steinb...@comcast.net mailto:ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu  
Cc: USMA usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu  
Sent: Monday, August 25, 2014 8:31 PM
Subject: [USMA:54332] Re: Canada's Wonderland



 

Probably because Canada is only a supposedly metric country.   ;-)

 

Canada does very well with temperature, barometric pressure, wind speed, longer 
distances and vehicle speeds. Other areas of Canadian life (as far as I can 
tell from down here in the USA) are all over the map when it comes to metric 
vs. Imperial.

 

  _  

 

 

From: Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com mailto:metricmik...@gmail.com 
To: USMA usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sunday, August 24, 2014 10:07:19 PM
Subject: [USMA:54331] Canada's Wonderland

 

Amazingly Canada’s wonderland has height restrictions in inches only, which I 
find amazing for a supposedly metric country 
https://www.canadaswonderland.com/uploads/downloads/2012%20Rider%20Height%20Guide.pdf

 

Mike Payne

 

 

 

 

 

[USMA:54328] Interesting scale seen in New York today

[Carleton MacDonald]

My wife is in a nursing home in New York City (closest place where her
particular disease can be treated) and I go there on the train every week
and take her out in a wheelchair.

 

Today we were southbound on Madison Avenue somewhere in the 90s. There is a
small hardware store along the way and they had a scale in the window. It
was an analog scale (step on it and a pointer moves around). The dial had kg
on the outside, prominently in white, and lb on the inside, less
prominently, in gray.

 

I thought of buying it but I already have a digital scale that indicates kg
(in 0.05 kg increments) if I have the switch at the bottom set correctly, to
kg and not lb. (My friend in England has a digital scale with three
settings: kg, lb, st.)

 

Carleton

[USMA:54311] RE: CNN's 12 of the World's Most Beautiful Clocks

[Carleton MacDonald]

One slight mistake for London: Big Ben is not the tower, and it is not the 
clock. It is the bell inside the tower.

 

http://www.whitechapelbellfoundry.co.uk/bigben.htm

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Remek Kocz
Sent: Saturday, August 16, 2014 15:03
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54310] CNN's 12 of the World's Most Beautiful Clocks

 

CNN almost gets it right.  12 clock towers are profiled, heights are given in 
meters first, with feet in parentheses.  Only the first clock makes an 
additional mention of a 37-foot statue without a metric equivalent.  
Otherwise, a job well done.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/11/travel/gallery/beautiful-clocks/index.html?hpt=hp_c3

[USMA:54296] RE: [USMA:54292] RE: [USMA:54284] FW: [USMA:54283] RE: He won’t touch issue with 3.048-meter pole

[Carleton MacDonald]

Probably comes from “feet of exposed film”.

 

cm

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
cont...@metricpioneer.com
Sent: Monday, August 11, 2014 12:15
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54292] RE: [USMA:54284] FW: [USMA:54283] RE: He won’t touch 
issue with 3.048-meter pole

 

Carleton. Actually, length is correct for one definition of footage, but I had 
in mind this particular definition: a motion-picture scene or scenes: newsreel 
footage; jungle footage.

- Message from cont...@metricpioneer.com mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com 
 -
Date: Mon, 11 Aug 2014 09:01:01 -0700
From: cont...@metricpioneer.com mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com 
Reply-To: cont...@metricpioneer.com mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com 
Subject: [USMA:54290] RE: [USMA:54284] FW: [USMA:54283] RE: He won’t touch 
issue with 3.048-meter pole
  To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 

I looked Meterage up at Dictionary dot com and the definition is entirely 
different from footage. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/meterage

- Message from Carleton MacDonald carlet...@comcast.net 
mailto:carlet...@comcast.net  -
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 22:12:23 -0400
From: Carleton MacDonald carlet...@comcast.net 
mailto:carlet...@comcast.net 
Reply-To: carlet...@comcast.net mailto:carlet...@comcast.net 
Subject: [USMA:54285] RE: [USMA:54284] FW: [USMA:54283] RE: He won’t touch 
issue with 3.048-meter pole
  To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 

Or, just “length”.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu  
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of John Altounji
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 21:54
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54284] FW: [USMA:54283] RE: He won’t touch issue with 
3.048-meter pole

 

How about the following found with the help of google translate.

 


Meterage,

for footage

landmark, significant event, achievement, highlight, watershed, benchmark, 
touchstone, for milestone

 

 

John Altounji
One size does not fit all.
Social promotion ruined Education.

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu  
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of cont...@metricpioneer.com 
mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:21 PM
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54283] RE: He won’t touch issue with 3.048-meter pole

 

Al Lawrence. In my opinion, your evaluation is accurate (and also unfortunate). 
I wonder about common expressions like footage and milestone. What words could 
we use in lieu of such words? Any ideas?

- Message from Al Lawrence alana...@hotmail.com 
mailto:alana...@hotmail.com  -
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:44:43 -0700
From: Al Lawrence alana...@hotmail.com mailto:alana...@hotmail.com 
Reply-To: alana...@hotmail.com mailto:alana...@hotmail.com 
Subject: [USMA:54282] RE: He won’t touch issue with 3.048-meter pole
  To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 

I think this sums up the attitude of most Americans perfectly.  They know a lot 
of things in the US are already metric, they think going to metric seems like a 
good idea and that maybe someone should finally make a decision, but in the 
end, they just don't want to bother.

Al Lawrence
 
 
 

 Subject: [USMA:54281] He won’t touch issue with 3.048-meter pole
 From: i...@metricrules.org mailto:i...@metricrules.org 
 Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 14:23:45 -0500
 To: usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu 


 http://www.redlandsdailyfacts.com/lifestyle/20140809/he-wont-touch-issue-with-3048-meter-pole


 Sent from my iPhone





- End message from Al Lawrence alana...@hotmail.com 
mailto:alana...@hotmail.com  -




- End message from Carleton MacDonald carlet...@comcast.net 
mailto:carlet...@comcast.net  -
 




- End message from cont...@metricpioneer.com 
mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com  -

[USMA:54285] RE: [USMA:54284] FW: [USMA:54283] RE: He won’t touch issue with 3.048-meter pole

[Carleton MacDonald]

Or, just “length”.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
John Altounji
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 21:54
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54284] FW: [USMA:54283] RE: He won’t touch issue with 
3.048-meter pole

 

How about the following found with the help of google translate.

 


Meterage,

for footage

landmark, significant event, achievement, highlight, watershed, benchmark, 
touchstone, for milestone

 

 

John Altounji
One size does not fit all.
Social promotion ruined Education.

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu  
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of cont...@metricpioneer.com 
mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com 
Sent: Sunday, August 10, 2014 4:21 PM
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54283] RE: He won’t touch issue with 3.048-meter pole

 

Al Lawrence. In my opinion, your evaluation is accurate (and also unfortunate). 
I wonder about common expressions like footage and milestone. What words could 
we use in lieu of such words? Any ideas?

- Message from Al Lawrence alana...@hotmail.com 
mailto:alana...@hotmail.com  -
Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 12:44:43 -0700
From: Al Lawrence alana...@hotmail.com mailto:alana...@hotmail.com 
Reply-To: alana...@hotmail.com mailto:alana...@hotmail.com 
Subject: [USMA:54282] RE: He won’t touch issue with 3.048-meter pole
  To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 

I think this sums up the attitude of most Americans perfectly.  They know a lot 
of things in the US are already metric, they think going to metric seems like a 
good idea and that maybe someone should finally make a decision, but in the 
end, they just don't want to bother.

Al Lawrence
 
 



 Subject: [USMA:54281] He won’t touch issue with 3.048-meter pole
 From: i...@metricrules.org mailto:i...@metricrules.org 
 Date: Sun, 10 Aug 2014 14:23:45 -0500
 To: usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu 


 http://www.redlandsdailyfacts.com/lifestyle/20140809/he-wont-touch-issue-with-3048-meter-pole


 Sent from my iPhone





- End message from Al Lawrence alana...@hotmail.com 
mailto:alana...@hotmail.com  -

[USMA:54155] RE: Accidental Overdose: Parents Are Terrible at Measuring Kids' Meds

[Carleton MacDonald]

This article was also in The Washington Post yesterday.

 

My current health care providers still use colonial units. I don’t know how 
they handle this particular situation. I used to be with Kaiser Permanente (for 
35 years, through 2006) until my employer took away that option. Now that I am 
(barely) eligible for Medicare I’m going to go back to Kaiser, beginning next 
year (I’m stuck with my current provider until then). In the last couple of 
years with Kaiser I noted that the scales were all in kg and there was a 
conversion chart next to the scale. I’m assuming they still do that (Kaiser 
Mid-Atlantic, that is).

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/spoonfuls-can-lead-to-medicine-errors-study-finds/2014/07/13/fd8ed0a4-0ac2-11e4-929c-4cd4865c3725_story.html

 

 

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
cont...@metricpioneer.com
Sent: Tuesday, July 15, 2014 11:26
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54154] Accidental Overdose: Parents Are Terrible at Measuring 
Kids' Meds

 

Thanks to Linda Anderman who tweeted this to me: 

Parents aren’t doing a great job measuring out medications for their little 
ones — and the problem may be that we’re still using the so-called English 
system rather than switching to the metric system, a new study shows.

Busy multitasking parents make all kinds of medication errors, such as reading 
tablespoons for teaspoons, which results in three times the dose, or 
substituting a kitchen spoon for an actual teaspoon. That may at least 
partially explain the more than 10,000 annual calls to poison centers, 
researchers suggested in the study published Monday in Pediatrics.

The researchers found that when parents were given a prescription in teaspoons 
or tablespoons nearly 40 percent measured wrong, while more than 40 percent 
read the dosage off the prescription wrong. When prescriptions were written in 
metric units parents were half as likely to make mistakes. The findings suggest 
that medicines should switch to a milliliter-only standard, the researchers say.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/kids-health/accidental-overdose-parents-are-terrible-measuring-kids-meds-n153926

David Pearl www.MetricPioneer.com http://www.MetricPioneer.com  503-428-4917

[USMA:54028] Re: tries to pull a truck in heels - YouTube

[Carleton MacDonald]

They are using meters and not yards. We should be happy. Snarking over “meter” 
vs. “metre” is definitely secondary at this point.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Harold_Potsdamer
Sent: Saturday, June 21, 2014 07:35
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:54012] Re: tries to pull a truck in heels - YouTube

 

A lot of people make spelling errors, it doesn’t mean it is right.

 

Why didn’t they just use the symbol “m”?

 

 

 

From: cont...@metricpioneer.com mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com  

Sent: Friday, 2014-06-20 23:53

To: U.S. Metric Association mailto:usma@colostate.edu  

Subject: [USMA:54010] Re: tries to pull a truck in heels - YouTube

 

Harold. Clearly, the signs say 1 METER - 2 METERS - 3 METERS et cetera, 
rendered with the American spelling, not the British spelling.

- Message from Harold_Potsdamer harold_potsda...@cox.net 
mailto:harold_potsda...@cox.net  -
Date: Wed, 18 Jun 2014 20:44:48 -0400
From: Harold_Potsdamer harold_potsda...@cox.net 
mailto:harold_potsda...@cox.net 
Reply-To: harold_potsda...@cox.net mailto:harold_potsda...@cox.net 
Subject: [USMA:53999] tries to pull a truck in heels - YouTube
  To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMSStSeQyUI 
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NMSStSeQyUIfeature=player_detailpage#t=50 
feature=player_detailpage#t=50

 

The distances are measured in metres.




- End message from Harold_Potsdamer harold_potsda...@cox.net 
mailto:harold_potsda...@cox.net  -

David Pearl www.MetricPioneer.com http://www.MetricPioneer.com  503-428-4917

[USMA:53828] RE: How fast? Kilometers on Union County, S.D., signs a relic of failed metric switch

[Carleton MacDonald]

To many newspapers - and to my company's corporate communications department
- the AP is God and their stylebook is the Bible, the infallible Word of
God. Their copy editors will not allow anything that is not specified in the
stylebook.

 

No amount of arguing will change that. Only someone getting to whoever
controls the AP Stylebook will.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of John M. Steele
Sent: Sunday, May 18, 2014 06:10
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53827] How fast? Kilometers on Union County, S.D., signs a
relic of failed metric switch

 

Article about some leftover dual unit speed limit signs in South Dakota.

http://siouxcityjournal.com/lifestyles/trends/how-fast-kilometers-on-union-c
ounty-s-d-signs-a/article_ea34b317-bb79-5614-9290-69ba46c6cb23.html

 

In spite of the clear km/h markings on the sign photo (and also on the
guy's speedometer if it were shown), the article doggedly sticks to AP's
misuse-of-metric Style Guide by using kph as the symbol for kilometers per
hour.

 

I'm surprised they didn't photoshop it.

[USMA:53812] RE: Archaic units persist

[Carleton MacDonald]

We bell ringers are still measuring the mass of bells in archaic units
dating back 400 years. Hundredweights (114 lb), quarters (28 lb), and
pounds. (I think rocks or whatever people weigh themselves by in the UK are
in there someplace, but they aren't used to measure bells.)

The reason why so many names for one thing is that people back then were
mostly innumerate: their sense of numbers was something like one, two,
three, many.  The Washington Cathedral's heaviest bell (the 10 bell) is 1629
kg or 3588 lb. Both numbers were incomprehensible to most people back then,
so the solution is to give mass a whole bunch of different names to make the
numbers smaller: 32 cwt 0 qr 4 lb.  Three small numbers; people understood
those.

It hasn't changed since due to tradition. In The Ringing World, the weekly
UK publication on bell ringing, writers now often describe distances between
towers in km and rope lengths in cm or mm, but when it comes to the mass of
the bells - can't change that or the yelling will begin! How insane to live
in a mixed up world.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of James
Sent: Tuesday, May 13, 2014 16:02
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53811] RE: Archaic units persist

I make fun of them too, Martin! My biggest hope is to make the unending
debate about what to call the hodgepodge of units used here a moot issue by
going entirely SI in the US. I take great delight in pointing out to folks
that my grandpa's yard stick is no longer valid since the size of the yard
(and inch, foot, etc.) in the US changed size in 1959. And that it had also
changed size in 1893.

Jim


On 2014-05-13 14:45, Martin Vlietstra wrote:
 Not to worry Jim, You should know by now that I take every opportunity 
 to ridicule the difference between Customary and Imperial units, 
 especially when the same name means different things depending on 
 which side of the pond you are.

 Martin

 -Original Message-
 From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On 
 Behalf Of James
 Sent: 13 May 2014 20:18
 To: U.S. Metric Association
 Subject: [USMA:53809] RE: Archaic units persist

 Yes, those naturally were US units of measure (esp. the gallon) since 
 I went to school in the US. Perhaps I should have made that statement
explicitly.

 Jim


 On 2014-05-13 13:45, Martin Vlietstra wrote:
 Hi James,

 I assume of course that I would have to use a little over 3 quarts of
 water.
 :-)

 Regards

 Martin, resident in the UK.

 -Original Message-
 From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On 
 Behalf Of James
 Sent: 13 May 2014 18:19
 To: U.S. Metric Association
 Subject: [USMA:53807] Archaic units persist

 This article from the Chattanooga Times-Free Press states the total 
 production of the mills owned by a company that is setting up new 
 headquarters in Chattanooga TN:
 http://timesfreepress.com/news/2014/may/13/flour-mills-merge-form-cha
 t
 tanoog
 a-based-grain-cra/?breakingnews
 It gives their production in hundredweights (cwt). A hundred weight 
 is
 100 pounds avoirdupois. (In Britain, I believe a hundredweight was 
 112 lb, or 8 stone.) So, this archaic unit persists in the US.

 Side story:
  Years ago I worked my way through college by working part-time in a 
 campus bake shop. We routinely received our various flours in 100 lb
bags.
 The male permanent baker (not a student, such as I) and I got into a 
 contest on hauling bags of flour from the storeroom. I, at one time, 
 carried a 100 lb bag on each shoulder and one in my arms simultaneously.
 I loaded those three bags onto my shoulders and into my arms by myself.
 That was back in my youth ... sigh. Of course, I could still do that 
 if I really, really wanted to! But I'm wiser now. (Grin.)

 I still recall the excellent pie dough recipe we used. It made 25 pie 
 shells. Unfortunately, it's in gallons, pounds, and ounces:
  25 lb pastry dough
  13 oz salt
  10 lb lard
  8 lb fine shortening
  1 gal water
 Stir the dry ingredients together. Cut in the fat to form coarse
crumbles.
 Add the water and mix, taking care not to over mix. Double the recipe 
 to make 25 lids for the pies.


 Jim

 --
 James R. Frysinger
 632 Stoney Point Mountain Road
 Doyle TN 38559-3030

 (C) 931.212.0267
 (H) 931.657.3107
 (F) 931.657.3108

[USMA:53800] Re: Now this is the way I wish we did weather here in the States

[Carleton MacDonald]

You can also go to www.weathernetwork.com http://www.weathernetwork.com ,
and that can be an app on your cell phone or your computer.

 

Note: If you set it up as a cell phone app, use the name of the city and not
the zip code. If I type in “10029” for example (East Harlem), it comes back
with Astoria in Queens. So just type in “New York, NY” and it will be fine.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of John M. Steele
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 07:07
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53796] Re: Now this is the way I wish we did weather here in
the States

 

Actually, we do.  Ignore the media and use the National Weather Service.
They have many products and some are Customary only.  However, find their
Point Forecast product and:
1. set it up for your zipcode or street address.  
2. scroll down to bottom of page, find and click on the link for SI units
(default is English)
3. now bookmark the page, your location and SI preference will be saved in
the bookmark

The SI version has a few minor issues, but it's pretty good.  Among the
issues:
1. They use millibars
2. Some data is presented as dual, both metric and Customary
3. In temperatures, the data is presented both with and without a space
between number and unit, also with no unit
4. Rainfall may be in either millimeters or centimeters depending on value.
The figures need to be comparable for all days of the forecast.  Pick a
unit, stick with it.
5. Excessive resolution (2 decimal digits) in visibility under 5 km, should
be to nearest 0.1 km, based on resolution of the equipment as specified in
FMH-1.

If you want another choice, Weather Underground also has pretty good SI
options after you find the switch.  It is a  °F | °C link near the top of
the page.  I prefer NWS but both are reasonable choices.

Since I live near the border, I also have a bookmark for Windsor, Ontario.
Environment Canada is better in its SI usage, but also has a link to switch
the page between Imperial and SI, although their default is SI.

 






  _  


From: ezra.steinb...@comcast.net mailto:ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
ezra.steinb...@comcast.net mailto:ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu
 
Sent: Monday, May 12, 2014 6:24 AM
Subject: [USMA:53795] Now this is the way I wish we did weather here in the
States

 

Just ran across this web page from the Montreal Gazette:

 

http://www.montrealgazette.com/weather/index.html?city=montreal
http://www.montrealgazette.com/weather/index.html?city=montrealrg=qc
rg=qc

 

How beautiful! Too bad we don't do that here (yet?)

 

Ezra

 

[USMA:53740] Re: Declarations of Net Amounts Inside Containers

[Carleton MacDonald]

My guess:

 

It started out as 100 g

Then someone converted it to ounces

Then someone else back-converted it to metric and got overly precise.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of mechtly, eugene a
Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2014 17:10
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: mechtly, eugene a; U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53739] Re: Declarations of Net Amounts Inside Containers

 

I just bought a bar of Shave Soap. 

 

NET 3.5 OZ (99.2 g) is printed of the cardboard container as the
declaration of net amount provided.

 

What is your analysis of this declaration?  Why was the fill amount not 100
grams?

 

EAM.

 

On Apr 19, 2014, at 11:18 AM, kilopascal kilopas...@cox.net
mailto:kilopas...@cox.net  wrote:





Eugene  Carleton,

 

This would be an interesting survey question?

 

Of the 3 contents declarations below, which number would you pay attention
to first? second? and third?

 

I would bet that most people would pick up on the 89 ounces first and ignore
the other two.  If the ounces were removed and only the pints and litres
stood, the pints would be preferred over the litres.  Most people prefer
whole numbers and the simpler the better.  Decimal parts in any way shape or
form are a turn off.  But one decimal place would be preferred over two
places.

 

Yes, you are right, 3 L or 2.5 L (read as two and a half) would get around
having to utter the word point.  This is one of the reasons the 0.009 $
trick works.  People ignore the that last 9 and fail to round up, so they
see a cheaper price and that is what is intended.

 

Removing all of the USC and leaving only 2.63 L would be a turn off and the
people who do pay attention to the contents declarations would be fuming
with anger.  So there would have to be some sort of fill modification in
order to get the numbers in a friendly format.

 

Nutritional labels are what they are and I'm sure ignored by most and of
course, there was a recent campaign to rid the labels of grams and
millilitres for teaspoons.  So, yes there is some rejection of the metric
only on labels.

 

The practice of reducing the size while keeping the price the same is not
deceptive.  It is no different than keeping the size the same and increasing
the price.  Where is one better over the other?  As long as the size is
defined on the package, it is up to the consumer to determine for
himself/herself if the cost is justified.  If they are going to change the
size, it should be in a whole number of grams.

 

I never said anything about rounding to 30 g or 30 mL.  I said the ounce
should be standardised  to 30 g and 30 mL.  The FDA already did this, NIST
should follow.  This will make it easier for comparing or converting onces
sizes from round numbers to non-round metric values to rounded metric
values.  There would no longer be 453 g or 453.6 g or 454 g or any other
nonsense when pound sizes are soft converted.  A pound will appear as either
450 g or 480 g, which ever there packer decides.  30 g or mL increments
make it easier to portion food and drinks into halves, thirds, quarters,
fifths, sixths, etc.  450 g of hamburger divided 3 ways is 150 g each.  Much
easier than dividing 16 ounces into 3 on the old system.  This is a rebuttal
to those who claim metric units can't be divided by 3. 

 

By redefining the ounce to a value of 30, and allowing producers to continue
in their ounce world would make it simpler for us using metric.  We would
get rounded, whole numbers with lots of divisors to work with.  A win-win
situation for us. 

 

Of course, amounts 30 would not be affected.  

 

We can't force the others to follow us, but what we can do is try to make it
friendly to our side when they don't want to.

 

 

 


[USMA:53737] Declarations of Net Amounts Inside Containers 


mechtly, eugene a Fri, 18 Apr 2014 13:16:03 -0700 

I have in my refrigerator a plastic container which bears the declaration of

net amount of lemonade inside:
2.63 L (2.7 QT) 89 FL OZ
 
While this declaration is not rounded in liters or in any of the other
units 
of measurement employed, the declaration probably meets all the requirements
of 
the existing FPLA.
 
My recommendation would be a targeted fill amount of 2.50 liters (alone),
or 
perhaps 3 liters (alone), if 3.00 liters can fit inside this very same 
container, and after an amended FPLA permits.
 
After this container is emptied, I intent to measure its maximum capacity.
 
Eugene Mechtly
 
 
 
 
On Apr 18, 2014, at 12:40 PM, mechtly, eugene a 
mech...@illinois.edu http://illinois.edu mailto:mech...@illinois.edu
wrote:
 
kPa,
 
How do you define rounding; a numerical value of one non-zero digit, two 
digits one of which must be zero, three digits two of which must be zero, or

what?
 
Look at the labels of Nutrition Facts.  They are *not* all rounded numerical

values in grams or milliliters!  These not rounded numerical values are
not 
rejected by the public.
 
Even the 

[USMA:53733] Re: costco

[Carleton MacDonald]

Yes - and the other laws that allow colonial units only for packaged meat
(such as sausage) and for goods packaged in the store.

 


Carleton

 

From: mechtly, eugene a [mailto:mech...@illinois.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, April 17, 2014 12:48
To: carlet...@comcast.net
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: Re: [USMA:53730] Re: costco

 

Carleton, 

 

By  stupid law I'm sure you mean the existing Fair Packaging and Labeling
Act (FPLA) which *requires* duality (e.g. both grams and ounces) on many
package labels; except on labels of Nutrition Facts which use only grams or
milliliters for food components; and ounces, only for serving sizes.

 

Labels of Nutrition Facts, regulated by the Food and Drug Administration
(FDA) are somehow (thankfully) exempt from the duality requirement of the
FPLA!

 

By promoting Unit Pricing, not required by the FPLA, we might be able to
persuade more regulating federal agencies (e.g. the FTC) to circumvent the
duality requirement of the FPLA!

 

Eugene Mechtly.



carlet...@comcast.net mailto:carlet...@comcast.net  wrote: 





The response from Costco was very good. It was a custom letter, and was
written with some thought, and not a collection of canned Customer Relations
response paragraphs. Unforunately the arcane labeling requirements imposed
by various government agencies (including the requirement to explain
gallons in terms of ounces, too) adds to the mess. And then there are the
baked and cooked goods in Costco stores, made and packaged in the store
itself, which according to current Federal law don't need metric equivalents
at all.

 

Costco does follow the law, but the law is stupid.

 

Carleton

Loyal Costco member for many years, and whose 27 year old son works there
(and already has 33,000 in his 401(k))

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/12/costco-profit_n_2859250.html

 

 

 

 

 

  _  

From: John Altounji phy...@msn.com mailto:phy...@msn.com 
To: USMA usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Wednesday, April 16, 2014 7:11:50 PM
Subject: [USMA:53723] costco

 

Attached is the response from Costco and my draft.  If you think I should
amend anything, please share with me.

I do not know how much we can get out of this, but at least we have a
contact.

 

John Altounji
One size does not fit all.
Social promotion ruined Education.

 

 

 

[USMA:53694] RE: What To Tell Companies Deficient in Labeling in Metric Units

[Carleton MacDonald]

I wrote to Aidell's a number of years ago asking why metric was not on the
label.  They responded, essentially, Because we're not required to.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of mechtly, eugene a
Sent: Monday, April 07, 2014 12:35
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53686] RE: What To Tell Companies Deficient in Labeling in
Metric Units

 

Parker,

 

Consult the Handbooks of the NCWM (published by NIST) to find which Federal
Agency is assigned regulation of each consumer product, foods and  not
foods.

 

NIST Handbooks can be viewed, downloaded, and even printed online.

 

Try them! 

 

Eugene Mechtly

  _  

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu
[owner-u...@colostate.edu] on behalf of Parker Willey Jr.
[pawil...@pacbell.net]
Sent: Friday, April 04, 2014 2:50 PM
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53677] What To Tell Companies Deficient in Labeling in Metric
Units

Hi:

On Aidells Chicken  Apple Smoked Chicken Sausage (and other products), they
show on the line below:
FULLY COOKED * KEEP REFRIGERATED * NET WT. 48OZ. (3 LBS.)
The only place where there is any metric info is in the Nutrition Facts
section on the back.

Similarly, on Oscar Meyer Hot Dogs, and lunch meat, there is a similar
labeling of weight in ounces only.

There are also other brands of packaged meat in stores displaying legacy
units only.

If I write to Oscar Meyer, Aidells, and others about their labels missing
metric units on the front of the package, is this a correct page to refer
them to to show they are delinquent?

I found this web page:
PART 500-REGULATIONS UNDER SECTION 4 OF THE FAIR PACKAGING AND LABELING ACT
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfr
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?c=ecfrsid=d46d8c24934536de0ef58344303
bf174rgn=div5view=textnode=16:1.0.1.5.62idno=16
sid=d46d8c24934536de0ef58344303bf174rgn=div5view=textnode=16:1.0.1.5.62
idno=16

Is there another page I should refer the reader of my email or letter to?

Thank you.
..Parker

[USMA:53597] RE: Unit Pricing of Consumer Products in Retail Marketplaces

[Carleton MacDonald]

Because then the customer and the deli counter employee would get into a 
needless argument over the correct way to order things.  It’s understood that a 
“quarter” gets you 125 g.  Barbara understands it, the employee understands it, 
and everyone’s happy.

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 08:54
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53590] RE: Unit Pricing of Consumer Products in Retail 
Marketplaces

 

Just out of curiosity why does your friend not just ask for 125 g or some 
amount in increments of 100 g?  What would she do if a new clerk behind the 
counter interpreted her request for “a quarter” as 0.25 kg or 250 g and sold 
her that much?  Does it bother her that the scale doesn’t show pounds?  

 

Has she ever used the word ‘gram” in a request or does she always speak 
Luddite?  I wonder if she is functional at all in the metric system despite the 
exposure to it in the marketplace. 

 

I wonder how quickly metric requests would increase if the shops would offer 
special discounts to customers (like 5 % off) if they asked for amounts in 
increments of 100 g?   

 


[USMA:53590] RE: Unit Pricing of Consumer Products in Retail Marketplaces 


carletonm Thu, 20 Feb 2014 09:03:28 -0800 

I have seen per 100 g a lot at deli counters there.  Most people don't buy 
over 1 kg of ham, of cheese, etc. so 100 g is closer to quantities they 
actually do purchase. 
My American-born friend Barbara (a fellow native San Franciscan like me) who 
married a UK professor in 1976 lives in Kenilworth, south of Coventry.  She 
likes to shop every day.  She goes to the local Waitrow's or Sainsbury's and 
asks for a quarter of ham, of cheese, etc.  Although to the old-timers this 
means a quarter-pound, by convention what she gets is 125 g.   Carleton 

[USMA:53599] RE: Unit Pricing of Consumer Products in Retail Marketplaces

[Carleton MacDonald]

I don’t remember the subject ever coming up the last two times I’ve visited 
(2005 and 2009).  Everything in the UK is Celsius and she uses that.  Remember, 
she was born in San Francisco in 1950, lived there until 1976, then moved to 
the UK, so she is not in the generation of UK school children who were taught 
metric.  However, wandering through Waitrow’s (which is a really great store, 
by the way), everything except a few bottles of milk is in metric only, with no 
imperial equivalent. 

 

I didn’t pay much attention to how she cooked, so I don’t know what she did 
there.

 

It certainly does not help that the roads are still marked in imperial.

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 12:07
To: 'U.S. Metric Association'
Subject: Re: [USMA:53590] RE: Unit Pricing of Consumer Products in Retail 
Marketplaces

 

OK.

 

You answered the second question in the first paragraph, but what about the 
other questions that are actually more in line with determining a person’s 
knowledge and preference for using metric units?  

 

If you ask her the temperature will she tell you and others in degrees celsius 
or will she convert it to fahrenheit?  What about volumes?  Does she use litres 
or switch everything over to pints, quarts and gallons?  How much metric does 
she willingly use?

 

 

 

From: Carleton MacDonald mailto:carlet...@comcast.net  

Sent: Saturday, 2014-02-22 11:03

To: 'Kilopascal' mailto:kilopas...@cox.net  ; 'U.S. Metric Association' 
mailto:usma@colostate.edu  

Subject: RE: [USMA:53590] RE: Unit Pricing of Consumer Products in Retail 
Marketplaces

 

Because then the customer and the deli counter employee would get into a 
needless argument over the correct way to order things.  It’s understood that a 
“quarter” gets you 125 g.  Barbara understands it, the employee understands it, 
and everyone’s happy.

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2014 08:54
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53590] RE: Unit Pricing of Consumer Products in Retail 
Marketplaces

 

Just out of curiosity why does your friend not just ask for 125 g or some 
amount in increments of 100 g?  What would she do if a new clerk behind the 
counter interpreted her request for “a quarter” as 0.25 kg or 250 g and sold 
her that much?  Does it bother her that the scale doesn’t show pounds?  

 

Has she ever used the word ‘gram” in a request or does she always speak 
Luddite?  I wonder if she is functional at all in the metric system despite the 
exposure to it in the marketplace. 

 

I wonder how quickly metric requests would increase if the shops would offer 
special discounts to customers (like 5 % off) if they asked for amounts in 
increments of 100 g?   

 


[USMA:53590] RE: Unit Pricing of Consumer Products in Retail Marketplaces 


carletonm Thu, 20 Feb 2014 09:03:28 -0800 

I have seen per 100 g a lot at deli counters there.  Most people don't buy 
over 1 kg of ham, of cheese, etc. so 100 g is closer to quantities they 
actually do purchase. 
My American-born friend Barbara (a fellow native San Franciscan like me) who 
married a UK professor in 1976 lives in Kenilworth, south of Coventry.  She 
likes to shop every day.  She goes to the local Waitrow's or Sainsbury's and 
asks for a quarter of ham, of cheese, etc.  Although to the old-timers this 
means a quarter-pound, by convention what she gets is 125 g.   Carleton 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com 
Version: 2014.0.4335 / Virus Database: 3705/7116 - Release Date: 02/22/14

[USMA:53594] RE: Unit Pricing of Consumer Products in Retail Marketplaces

[Carleton MacDonald]

Interesting.  That sounds somewhat like how counting is done in French.
Translated into English:

 

one

two 

three .

eighteen

nineteen

twenty

twenty-one .

twenty-nine

thirty

thirty-one.

forty

forty-one .

fifty

fifty-one.

sixty

sixty-one.

sixty-nine

sixty-ten

sixty-eleven

sixty-twelve

sixty-thirteen.

sixty-eighteen

sixty-nineteen

four twenties

four twenties and one

four twenties and two.

four twenties and seventeen

four twenties and eighteen

four twenties and nineteen

one hundred

 

One quite wonders how all that happened.

 

Carleton

 

From: mechtly, eugene a [mailto:mech...@illinois.edu] 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 13:48
To: carlet...@comcast.net; U.S. Metric Association
Cc: david sefcik; Kenneth Butcher
Subject: RE: Unit Pricing of Consumer Products in Retail Marketplaces

 

In Austria, 100 grams is tehn deka i.e. ten times ten grams = 100 grams,
the typical purchase of sliced ham or cheese. 

 

Eugene Mechtly

  _  

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu
[owner-u...@colostate.edu] on behalf of carlet...@comcast.net
mailto:carlet...@comcast.net  [carlet...@comcast.net]
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 10:59 AM
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: USMA; david sefcik; Kenneth Butcher
Subject: [USMA:53590] RE: Unit Pricing of Consumer Products in Retail
Marketplaces

I have seen per 100 g a lot at deli counters there.  Most people don't buy
over 1 kg of ham, of cheese, etc. so 100 g is closer to quantities they
actually do purchase.

My American-born friend Barbara (a fellow native San Franciscan like me) who
married a UK professor in 1976 lives in Kenilworth, south of Coventry.  She
likes to shop every day.  She goes to the local Waitrow's or Sainsbury's and
asks for a quarter of ham, of cheese, etc.  Although to the old-timers
this means a quarter-pound, by convention what she gets is 125 g.

 

Carleton

 

  _  

From: Martin Vlietstra vliets...@btinternet.com
mailto:vliets...@btinternet.com 
To: USMA usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: david sefcik david.sef...@nist.gov mailto:david.sef...@nist.gov ,
Kenneth Butcher kenneth.butc...@nist.gov
mailto:kenneth.butc...@nist.gov 
Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2014 2:06:46 AM
Subject: [USMA:53585] RE: Unit Pricing of Consumer Products in Retail
Marketplaces

 

Jim, Eugene

 

In the United Kingdom unit pricing is usually per kilogram or per litre,
though goods that have traditionally been sold in smaller quantities are
priced per 100 g or per 100 ml. The latter has been creeping into
British stores. Like Jim, I find it frustrating having to convert between
prices per 100 grams and prices per kilogram, but unlike Jim, I need only
multiply by 10, not by 16.

 

Martin Vlietstra
United Kingdom   

 

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of James
Sent: 20 February 2014 01:35
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: david.sef...@nist.gov mailto:david.sef...@nist.gov ;
kenneth.butc...@nist.gov mailto:kenneth.butc...@nist.gov 
Subject: [USMA:53584] RE: Unit Pricing of Consumer Products in Retail
Marketplaces

 

I'm glad that you were able to take part in that, Gene. You've got some good
background knowledge for a foundation for your views on that topic.

 

I'm sure that you, as I do, find it frustrating to see one can of a product
unit priced in cents per fluid ounce and another can unit priced in cents
per pint.

 

Jim
On 2014-02-19 19:24, mechtly, eugene a wrote:
 Please note the correction of the second word in my email.

 Eugene Mechtly

 
 From: mechtly, eugene a
 Sent: Wednesday, February 19, 2014 7:15 PM
 To: U.S. Metric Accociation
 Cc: david.sef...@nist.gov mailto:david.sef...@nist.gov ;
kenneth.butc...@nist.gov mailto:kenneth.butc...@nist.gov ; mechtly, eugene
a
 Subject: Unit Pricing of Consumer Products in Retail Marketplaces

 Unit Pricing may be defined as Price per Unit of Measurement in retail
markets.

 Some examples are: dollars per liter for bottled water, cents per
milliliter for eye drops, cents per gram for nuts, seeds, or berries,
dollars per kilogram for flour, cents per meter for dental floss, etc.

 A Guiding Principal is that a sIngle expression for the Unit Price (price
per measurement unit) must be applied to all items of a given category, from
all packers, in all package sizes, or from random size packages, or from
bulk distribution, in each particular retail establishment, to enable
consumers to compare cost and value of each and every brands of that
category offered for sale in each particular retail store.

 A Web Meeting of a NIST Working Group on Unit Pricing was conducted
earlier today.

 David Sefcik of NIST is the leader of this Working Group.

 About twenty members of the Group, including several from Australia,
participated today.

 A Unit Pricing Guide is being drafter by the Group.  The Guide is
presently in the 

[USMA:53577] Re: No Accent on lom in kilometer!

[Carleton MacDonald]

Equally telling:

No one says mil-LI-meter, cen-TI-meter; therefore, kil-AH-meter is 
equally wrong.  All have the accent on the first syllable with meter 
pronounced properly.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
mechtly, eugene a
Sent: Tuesday, February 18, 2014 11:40
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: mechtly, eugene a
Subject: [USMA:53576] Re: No Accent on lom in kilometer!

Jim (Frysinger),

The point I would like to emphasize is that SI Multiples (and submultiples) 
are formed by a Prefix plus a Coherent SI Unit.

Accent on lom in kilo-meter to form lom- eter diminishes this concept of 
prefix + unit to form a Multiple.

What should we *teach* the next generation to *speak* in English; lom-eter or 
kilo-meter?  I certainly advocate kilo-meter.

Indeed, this question arises in this forum every few years, but it does need to 
be reviewed occasionally for the benefit of newcomers.

I am not fluent is Chinese, in any of its various dialects, so I am not able to 
tell you (plural) where the Chinese should put the accent  (with a grin, or not 
a grin), but I admire your diligence in informing us about some of the 
variations in Chinese.

Neither am I fluent in Italian, in Russian, in Czech, or in any of the other 
languages of Eastern Europe or Asia.

What do subscribers who are fluent in any of these languages have to say about 
speaking the word for kilo-meter in one or more of those languages?

The SI Symbols for Units, although adopted globally in a unique form, can not 
always be spoken (as a letter or letters) as a convenient substitute for a word 
or words in spoken language.

Eugene Mechtly


From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [owner-u...@colostate.edu] on behalf of James 
Frysinger [j...@metricmethods.com]
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 10:22 PM
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53574] Re: No Accent on lom in kilometer!

Here is an example that is closer to the issue of the proper way to pronounce 
kilometer. In Chinese, kilo (千) is pronounced qiān and meter (米) is 
pronounced mi. (But in Taiwan meter is 公尺,
pronouncedgōngchǐ.) Perhaps in the PRC they say qiāngmǐ (千米 would be the 
spelled out unit name) for the unit symbolized with km. I don't know their 
grammar so I'm guessing.*

But perhaps, Gene, you could tell us where the Chinese should put the accent in 
qiānmǐ or qiāngōngchǐ. Grin.

BTW, what I've been posting comes from
http://www.metricmethods.com/Resources.php
Please note the references and acknowledgement of contributors at the bottom of 
the page.

Jim

*Trusting the never-wrong Web, I just now found the Chinese expression for 
kilometer as used in physics:
千米, pronounced qiānmǐ
Dang! I was right!
http://en.bab.la/dictionary/english-chinese/kilometer


On 2014-02-17 21:44, James Frysinger wrote:
 Gene,

 This argument seems to arise every 3 years on this mailing list. Or it 
 has over the last 20 years, anyway. And it never accomplishes anything 
 except to let people voice their preferences. It never accomplishes 
 anything. That is because there is no right way or wrong way to 
 pronounce kilometer except to those who write dictionaries and thus 
 appoint themselves as experts.

 I think your first statement is entirely correct.

 I think your second statement is an unfounded supposition. Secondly, I 
 think it flies in the face of the reality that in some languages, the 
 unit names, when pronounced, would sound nothing at all like they do 
 in English or some of the Romance languages, or even the Teutonic or 
 Slavic languages. For example, the Greek name for what we call the 
 second (of
 time) is δευτερόλεπτο which transliterates to deuterolepto. That is 
 why the SI symbols are inviolate. The symbol for second is the same 
 as it is for the δευτερόλεπτο, namely s.

 Not only are the spellings of SI units and prefixes subject to the 
 whims of various languages, so also the grammar and pronunciations.

 Having said that, this argument devolves down to how we should 
 pronounce kilometer in English. We will never standardize that; 
 people will pronounce it how they wish to. To-MAY-to or to-MAH-to. I, 
 for one, will be happy as long as they don't pronounce it so that it sounds 
 like mile.

 Now, let's figure out how to further metricate the US.

 Jim
 On 2014-02-17 12:19, mechtly, eugene a wrote:
 The CGPM does not publish an official Guide for Pronouncing the 
 Names and Multiples of SI Units.

 Nevertheless, I am confident that members of the CIPM (and CGPM) 
 would reject an accent on the lom in the word kilometer.

 NBC commentators at the SUCHI Olympic events, *all* seem to have 
 adopted this bad practice of accenting the lom.

 Who initiated this *deviation* from the established global practice 
 of enunciating both the prefix kilo and the stem meter?

 In spoken French and German there is no accented lom in kilometer!

 Is 

[USMA:53572] RE: doctor

[Carleton MacDonald]

When I was a member of Kaiser Permanente here in the D.C. area they measured
people in kg and cm.   My employer removed that option a number of years ago
and my old school family doctor uses colonial units only, as does my
veterinarian (though both have scales that measure either way).

In 1984 and 1986 my two sons were born at Kaiser Hospital in San Francisco.
Evan was 3690 g and Jeffrey was 4390 g, and that's how Kaiser recorded them,
even then (very likely to avoid medicine dosing errors).  I still have no
idea what they were in pounds and ounces.  When people ask (doing baby
comparisons), I have to honestly say, I don't know.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Pierre Abbat
Sent: Monday, February 17, 2014 22:38
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53570] doctor

I went to a doctor for the first time today. I stepped on the scale, which
read about 100 too much. The thermometer read in °F.

I'd like to persuade her to metricate. An obvious point is that BMI is
metric; we were talking about BMI. What are some others?

How hard is it to metricate a doctor's practice? Do they have software
packages, and does one simply flip a switch somewhere? Is it in /etc/profile
or ~/.profile, or in a configuration file for the program?

How do doctors who have metricated handle patients who have not?

Pierre
--
I believe in Yellow when I'm in Sweden and in Black when I'm in Wales.

[USMA:53552] RE: First order, first flight (1970-1972) | Airbus, a leading aircraft manufacturer

[Carleton MacDonald]

I cannot imagine that Airbus designed and built in anything other than metric; 
they just may have dumbed down the description to inches in an effort to sell 
the planes in North America. 

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Monday, February 10, 2014 20:16
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: First order, first flight (1970-1972) | Airbus, a leading aircraft 
manufacturer

 

http://www.airbus.com/company/history/the-narrative/first-order-first-flight-1970-1972/?contentId=%5B_TABLE%3Att_content%3B_FIELD%3Auid%5D%2C
 
http://www.airbus.com/company/history/the-narrative/first-order-first-flight-1970-1972/?contentId=%5B_TABLE%3Att_content%3B_FIELD%3Auid%5D%2CcHash=22935adfac92fcbbd4ba4e1441d13383
 cHash=22935adfac92fcbbd4ba4e1441d13383

 

From the beginning Roger Béteille insisted that a high level of technology 
should be built into the A300 to give it the edge over competing aircraft. He 
also decided that English should be the working language – and that 
measurements should not be metric because most airlines already had U.S.-built 
aircraft. Béteille had spent time listening to airlines such as Air France and 
Lufthansa, as well as visiting U.S. airlines like United, TWA and American. “I 
wanted to try to understand what the customers really wanted,” he said, laying 
the groundwork for much of the future success of Airbus where a culture of 
listening to customers has become endemic. 

 

Was this just an idea or did it really happen?  France was supposed to abandon 
metric in the 1950’s, but it never happened.

 

Then there is this paragraph, just below the one posted above:

 

The A300B given the go-ahead by France and Germany at Le Bourget in 1969 would 
be smaller, lighter and more economical than its three-engine American rivals. 
Its fuselage had been reduced from the original A300’s 6.4 metres in diameter 
to 5.6m, its length from 53.92m to 48.3m. As a result it was 25 tonnes lighter 
than the first planned A300.  

 

Why describe this plane in metric if the planes weren’t designed in metric 
because the customers wanted them in USC?  If the customers wanted USC, they 
why not describe them in USC?  

[USMA:53488] RE: Fleet Genius Pro management software now supports metric system | Technology content from Fleet Owner

[Carleton MacDonald]

This is because they are slavishly obeying the AP Stylebook.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of John M. Steele
Sent: Saturday, January 04, 2014 05:43
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53483] RE: Fleet Genius Pro management software now supports
metric system | Technology content from Fleet Owner

 

Another version of the press release shows some screen shots, and it uses
km/L; however, it mis-symbolizes as KPL.  It also showed examples of maximum
speed and average speed etc to demonstrate safety features.  As the maximum
speed was in excess of 150 km/h(156?) and mis-symbolized as KPH, I concluded
they don't understand metric very well and chose not to post the article.

I found a link to that other article, but it may not be working.  My browser
can't reload the page:
http://www.google.com/url?sa=t
http://www.google.com/url?sa=trct=jq=esrc=ssource=newssearchcd=2cad=r
javed=0CC0QqQIoADABurl=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.prweb.com%2Freleases%2F2013%2F12%2
Fprweb11450702.htmei=CeXHUrjYK8qwygGE04DICwusg=AFQjCNGe4dRq_GMG8HNxjp_iw7q
tjMrluQsig2=68UAzIzFwqUpUUyvAKPYsw
rct=jq=esrc=ssource=newssearchcd=2cad=rjaved=0CC0QqQIoADABurl=http%3
A%2F%2Fwww.prweb.com%2Freleases%2F2013%2F12%2Fprweb11450702.htmei=CeXHUrjYK
8qwygGE04DICwusg=AFQjCNGe4dRq_GMG8HNxjp_iw7qtjMrluQsig2=68UAzIzFwqUpUUyvAK
PYsw

 

  _  

From: Martin Vlietstra vliets...@btinternet.com
mailto:vliets...@btinternet.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu
 
Sent: Saturday, January 4, 2014 2:50 AM
Subject: [USMA:53482] RE: Fleet Genius Pro management software now supports
metric system | Technology content from Fleet Owner


Does the package use L/100 km or km/L when displaying fuel consumption?

I know that the European convention of L/100 km is not popular everywhere,
but to the commercial user, it is the most sensible.  A trucking manager
might well look at his costs as follows (the actual figures are total works
of fiction on my part):

Amortistaion - 75c / km
Tyres - 55c km
Fuel - 121c / km
Labour - 132c / km

If he calculated his fuel costs in L/100 km, then he need only multiply the
cost of fuel (in $/L) by his consumption to get the price in cents per
kilometre. If he used L/km, he would have to use division rather than
multiplication to get his answer.  In IT, multiplication is always preferred
to division because firstly one will never come across the divide by zero
problem and secondly A*B is identical to B*A, but A/B does not equal B/A.


-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu ] On
Behalf
Of Metric Rules Info
Sent: 03 January 2014 21:28
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53481] Fleet Genius Pro management software now supports
metric system | Technology content from Fleet Owner

http://m.fleetowner.com/technology/fleet-genius-pro-management-software-now-
supports-metric-system


Sent from my iPhone

[USMA:53455] RE: Big-Bang Metrication

[Carleton MacDonald]

That would include a condition that old units no longer have legal standing
in any contract.

cm

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of cont...@metricpioneer.com
Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 15:08
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53454] Big-Bang Metrication

Linda. The Big-Bang way is to simultaneously outlaw the use of pre-metric
measurement, metricate, reissue all government publications and laws, and
change education systems to the SI. India's changeover lasted from 1 April
1960, when metric measurements became legal, to 1 April 1962, when all other
systems were banned. The Indian model was extremely successful and was
copied over much of the developing world.  
I am eager to see how Myanmar handles its transition to SI.

David Pearl MetricPioneer.com 503-428-4917

- Message from l-daw...@att.net -
 Date: Tue, 24 Dec 2013 11:17:07 -0800 (PST)
 From: Linda Dawson l-daw...@att.net
Reply-To: Linda Dawson l-daw...@att.net
  Subject: Re: Questions -- if you would be so kind to answer
   To: cont...@metricpioneer.com cont...@metricpioneer.com


 Dear David -- You did a most thorough job of answering my questions
 -- thanks a million for your time and efforts.  I especially like your 
 answer to my question #1...well, your answer to #2 was terrific, also.
 I infer that the Big Bang (and you also call it quick) route is most 
 efficient.  Should I think that a country using this just completely 
 drops Standard markings and gives the lay person no time to learn the 
 system?  just immerse themselves into it?  Not now (for God's 
 sake, it is Christmas eve and tomorrow Christmas Dday), but if you can 
 give me a little more definiton on what the Big Bag Route meansI 
 would, again, be so grateful.  You've taught me a lot.
 Consider this to be your best deed to humanity today.
 Sincerely,
 Linda


 
  From: cont...@metricpioneer.com cont...@metricpioneer.com
 To: Linda Dawson l-daw...@att.net; U.S. Metric Association 
 usma@colostate.edu
 Sent: Tuesday, December 24, 2013 10:07 AM
 Subject: Re: Questions -- if you would be so kind to answer


 USMA. I received three questions from Linda Dawson who wrote a book:  
 Dradnats and the Metric Measurement Kids (Paperback ISBN 
 978-1492146261). I attempt to answer these questions and encourage you 
 to address these questions as well because my answers may not be the 
 best answers. Be sure to include l-daw...@att.net when you reply.

 Hi Linda. I take a shot at addressing your questions:

 Question 1. When do you think the U.S. will go metric? 5 years? 10 years?

 Answer 1. The United States began efforts at metrication in 1866 with 
 the Metric Act, so we have been riding around on training wheels for 
 about a century and a half. The United States is already using SI to 
 some degree (see http://metricpioneer.com/fact-sheet for more detail) 
 so The US Metric Association advocates completing United States 
 conversion to the International System of Units, known by the 
 abbreviation SI and also called the modern metric system. The process 
 of changing measurement units to the metric system is called metric 
 transition or metrication. If Hawaii HB36 (see
 http://www.capitol.hawaii.gov/measure_indiv.aspx?billtype=HBbillnumbe
 r=36 for more detail) is successful, then a state-by-state approach 
 could be a catalyst for a national trend that could start as early as 
 2018.

 Question 2. Do you see it as a gradual transition? How did other 
 countries, such as Britain, make the change and how many years did it 
 take?

 Answer 2. There are three common ways that nations convert from 
 traditional measurement systems to the SI. The first is the quick, or 
 Big-Bang route which was used by India in the 1960s and several other 
 nations including Australia and New Zealand since then. The second way 
 is to phase in units over time and progressively outlaw traditional 
 units. This method, favored by some industrial nations, is slower and 
 generally less complete. The third way is to redefine traditional 
 units in metric terms. This has been used successfully (in China for 
 example) where traditional units were ill-defined and had regional 
 variations. (See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metrication for more 
 detail.) Metrication in the United Kingdom remains partial. Most of 
 British industry, government and commerce use metric units, but 
 imperial units are officially used to specify journey distances, 
 vehicle speeds and the sizes of returnable milk containers, beer and 
 cider glasses.
  Imperial units are also often used informally to describe body 
 measurements and vehicle fuel economy. At school in Britain, the use 
 of metric units is the norm, though pupils are taught rough metric 
 equivalents of those imperial units still in daily use. (See 
 

[USMA:53434] RE: 0 to 100 km/h Performance Measure for Automotive Acceleration

[Carleton MacDonald]

Anyone can go in and FIX Wikipedia.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of cont...@metricpioneer.com
Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 19:00
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53433] RE: 0 to 100 km/h Performance Measure for Automotive
Acceleration

So Wikipedia is wrong? It would not be the first time.

David Pearl MetricPioneer.com 503-428-4917

- Message from j...@frewston.plus.com -
 Date: Thu, 12 Dec 2013 20:36:04 -
 From: j...@frewston.plus.com
Reply-To: j...@frewston.plus.com
  Subject: [USMA:53431] RE: 0 to 100 km/h Performance Measure for Automotive
Acceleration
   To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu


 Actually, in the UK it is the law to quote acceleration times as 0 to 
 62 mph (= 100 km/h), so it is ONLY the USA that uses 0 to 60 mph.

 John F-L

 -Original Message- From: Ressel, Howard (DOT)
 Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 8:25 PM
 To: U.S. Metric Association
 Subject: [USMA:53430] RE: 0 to 100 km/h Performance Measure for 
 Automotive Acceleration

 I agree, we Americans tend to be a bit arrogant and thing that the 
 only way is the US way.

 -Original Message-
 From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On 
 Behalf Of cont...@metricpioneer.com
 Sent: Thursday, December 12, 2013 3:19 PM
 To: U.S. Metric Association
 Subject: [USMA:53429] 0 to 100 km/h Performance Measure for Automotive 
 Acceleration

 My co-worker recently recounted to me her discussion with a car 
 salesman who claimed that 0 to 60 mph is the ONLY performance measure 
 for automotive acceleration used worldwide. He told her this during a 
 discussion in which she was telling him about her co-worker (that's
 me) who advocates United States metrication. The salesman was arguing 
 that the US should keep its worthy standards because of their 
 worldwide use. I did a little poking around on Wikipedia and 
 discovered that the time it takes to accelerate from 0 to 60 mph is a 
 commonly used performance measure for automotive acceleration in the 
 United States and the United Kingdom. In the rest of the world 0 to
 100 km/h is used. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/0_to_60_mph so the car 
 salesman was just making it up. I think many Americans tend to make 
 things up or just assume things based on their limited experience.
 Educate yourselves and be prepared to educate your fellow Americans so 
 we can complete American metrication one person at a time.

 David Pearl MetricPioneer.com 503-428-4917





 -
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2014.0.4259 / Virus Database: 3658/6914 - Release Date: 
 12/12/13


- End message from j...@frewston.plus.com -

[USMA:53423] RE: How accurate are Hospital conversions of babies masses in UK hospitals?

[Carleton MacDonald]

Why is the baby’s mass in kilograms?

 

When my two sons were born at the Kaiser Permanente Medical Center on Geary St. 
in San Francisco, the hospital recorded them as:

 

*   Evan (1984) – 3690 g
*   Jeffrey (1986) – 4390 g

 

This provided the requisite amount of accuracy, and avoided decimal points 
entirely.  Same as doing construction projects in millimeters.

 

The baby in question should have been described as 3080 g.  There would have 
been no ambiguity there.  Sounds like someone in the hospital wasn’t all that 
adept in metric and was trying to say it with two numbers (“three eight”) in 
the same manner as “six two” for pounds and ounces.

 

Yes, Kaiser was using metric almost thirty years ago.  The little “It’s a boy!” 
cards on the plastic bassinettes showed the baby’s mass in grams, his name, and 
his brand-new Kaiser Permanente medical record number.  If the parents asked – 
and ONLY if they asked – then the mass was shown in “conventional” units.

 

I still have no idea what they were in pounds and ounces, nor do I ever need or 
want to know that.  When people asked me at the time how much they “weighed”, I 
said the figure in grams.  If they then asked, “What is that in pounds and 
ounces?” (so they could compare to other babies) I just replied, “I don’t know.”

 

There was a TV ad today for a local hospital.  It showed a newborn baby in a 
scale.  The scale clearly had “4310” on it.

 

Carleton

 

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Friday, November 29, 2013 22:04
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: How accurate are Hospital conversions of babies masses in UK hospitals?

 

An interesting comment was posted to the BWMA Facebook page by Tony Bennett of 
ARM.  As usual with metric opponents they try to claim that there can be 
decimal point or scaling errors when reading metric values on balances as is 
commented in red below.  The possibility of this is true, but I would think 
hospital staff would have enough training and experience to get it right.  

 

But, the most important thing here is Tony tried to claim that the confusion 
would not have happened if they had just been told 6 lb 2 oz.  Well, if you 
back convert 6 lb 2 oz (=6.125 lb) to kilograms you don’t get 3.08 kg, you get 
2.78 kg, a difference of 300 g.  So, with this in mind, how many of the 
conversions that the hospital staff or the parents, etc perform are in error 
like this?  How many people zealous to hear an imperial have the imperial given 
to them a value in error?  Has anyone thought of the possibility of this? 

 

 

 

Anthony Bennett @ Daniel Jackson, Very great confusion was created when my 
latest grandchild was born earlier in the year. The midwife and staff staff 
said: 'Your baby is 'three eight' kilograms. Now, I concede that the staff MAY 
have said 'three point nought eight' kilograms, and not 'three eight' or 'three 
point eight'. Neverthless, many problems were caused by the belief that he had 
been born weighing 3.8 kilolrams whereas in fact he was 3.08 kg. Wouldn't have 
happened if from the off they'd been told he was 6lb 2oz. PHOTO: The sun, 
92,900,000 miles and 8 minutes away TB – ARM

 

My comment is below.  

 

 https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=14950903243 Daniel Jackson The 
distance from the sun to the earth is known as the astronomical unit (AU). This 
unit is precisely defined as an EXACT value in metres. The AU is defined as 149 
597 870 700 m EXACTLY. You can compare your figure to the correct value to 
determine the error, since you are fond of finding errors.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astronomical_unit

It would appear there was no error on the part of the hospital in reading the 
balance, it was in the way Tony heard it. If staff members recorded in the 
official record 3.08 kg, then they correctly copied the number as it appeared 
on the legally, calibrated mass balance. Of course, if it is a modern hospital, 
the balance is connected to a computer and the data is transmitted to the data 
base automatically without human intervention and potential error. The fact of 
the matter is, the mass of 3.08 kg is the measured mass and everything else is 
a fantasy. 

Also, it appears Tony's math is faulty. If you convert 6 lb 2 oz (6.125 lb) to 
kilograms, you only get 2.78 kg, a difference of 300 g. This in itself proves 
that conversion from officially measured kilograms was converted incorrectly. I 
wonder if with this flub Tony will be able to properly determine how wrong his 
distance from the sun to earth is. 

Of course Luddites would never question Tony's hearing and assume the hospital 
made the error considering that they have years of experience weighing new 
babies in kilograms. 

Notice how Steve mentioned other peoples baby masses were spoken and how he 
avoided the word measured. Yes, what is measured is what is true. What is 
spoken is an afterthought that comes from a translation with rounding that 
results in error (in 

[USMA:53417] RE: (1) BWMA British Weights Measures Association

[Carleton MacDonald]

“Tabled”, in the US, means “to set aside”, “to stop considering”, “to postpone”.

 

Is that what it means in the UK?

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 22:37
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: (1) BWMA British Weights  Measures Association

 

https://www.facebook.com/British.Weights.and.Measures.Association

 

Some exciting news for BWMA members: we now have a second new Patron to join 
Labour's Kate Hoey: Philip Hollobone, Conservative MP for Kettering since 2005.


Philip has been rated the most rebellious Tory MP and earlier this year tabled 
a series of Bills that would privatise the BBC, bring back the death penalty, 
and abolish the Deputy Prime Minister. Philip is also a member of the 
cross-party Better Off Out group of MPs campaigning for Britain to leave the 
EU. Philip is a Special Constable with the British Transport Police, and used 
to be a paratrooper in the Territorial Army.

 

Are these “Patrons” of any value to their cause?  If the UKMA had patrons would 
it help in matters?  BWMA seems to make an issue of this.

 

Now this Patron seems to have a very wild side.  Can’t tell if it is good for 
their cause or not.  

 

 

 

 

[USMA:53422] RE: (1) BWMA British Weights Measures Association

[Carleton MacDonald]

Exactly the opposite of what it means in the USA.  From the context, I kind of 
thought that’s what it means in the UK (those are very conservative ideas and 
he is a conservative so why would he want to set aside or postpone them?).

 

Carleton

 

From: Martin Vlietstra [mailto:vliets...@btinternet.com] 
Sent: Monday, November 25, 2013 15:53
To: carlet...@comcast.net; 'U.S. Metric Association'
Subject: RE: [USMA:53417] RE: (1) BWMA British Weights  Measures Association

 

In the House of Commons, “tabled” means “put on the table for discussion”, or 
in everyday language, “proposed”.

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu  
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of Carleton MacDonald
Sent: 25 November 2013 15:40
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53417] RE: (1) BWMA British Weights  Measures Association

 

“Tabled”, in the US, means “to set aside”, “to stop considering”, “to postpone”.

 

Is that what it means in the UK?

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2013 22:37
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: (1) BWMA British Weights  Measures Association

 

https://www.facebook.com/British.Weights.and.Measures.Association

 

Some exciting news for BWMA members: we now have a second new Patron to join 
Labour's Kate Hoey: Philip Hollobone, Conservative MP for Kettering since 2005.


Philip has been rated the most rebellious Tory MP and earlier this year tabled 
a series of Bills that would privatise the BBC, bring back the death penalty, 
and abolish the Deputy Prime Minister. Philip is also a member of the 
cross-party Better Off Out group of MPs campaigning for Britain to leave the 
EU. Philip is a Special Constable with the British Transport Police, and used 
to be a paratrooper in the Territorial Army.

 

Are these “Patrons” of any value to their cause?  If the UKMA had patrons would 
it help in matters?  BWMA seems to make an issue of this.

 

Now this Patron seems to have a very wild side.  Can’t tell if it is good for 
their cause or not.  

 

 

 

 

[USMA:53365] Re: Paul Trusten on Dram Vials

[Carleton MacDonald]

My wife is in a nursing home in NYC and I go there on Amtrak every week to
visit her and take her out in her wheelchair.  (The fare is helped by the
fact that I work for Amtrak.)  I usually come home on an Acela Express train
and we can purchase a first class seat at a low cost but only within one
hour of departure.  First class includes a meal and drinks.

The spirits (gin, vodka, etc.) come in standard 50 ml bottles, the same as
on airlines.  Each bottle is one serving.  Looks like we get more here than
in a pub over in the UK.

In the USA I've just seen bartenders upend the bottle, which has a spout
pushed into the opening.  I don't know if it dispenses any standard amount
or if the strength of the pour depends on the bartender's whim.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: Martin Vlietstra [mailto:vliets...@btinternet.com] 
Sent: Tuesday, October 29, 2013 03:45
To: 'Carleton MacDonald'; 'U.S. Metric Association'
Subject: RE: [USMA:53358] Re: Paul Trusten on Dram Vials

Seriously though, I think that this humorous discussion shows just how much
variation there is in a dram.  The US fluid dram is 3.7 ml while the
Apothecaries dram is 10.3 g. In the UK, the legal units of measure by which
spirits may be sold is 25 ml or 35 ml - choice of unit is the landlord's
choice, but the pub ort restaurant concerned must publicise which measure
they are using.

-Original Message-
From: Carleton MacDonald [mailto:carlet...@comcast.net]
Sent: 29 October 2013 03:30
To: vliets...@btinternet.com; 'U.S. Metric Association'
Subject: RE: [USMA:53358] Re: Paul Trusten on Dram Vials

After the second or third wee dram you probably don't care too much what
it is ...

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Martin Vlietstra
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 13:08
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53358] Re: Paul Trusten on Dram Vials

I don't know what a dram of cough medicine is, but I am often invited to
share a wee dram with my brother-in-law (who is Scottish).  How many
Americans know what that is. :-)

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of c...@traditio.com
Sent: 27 October 2013 23:05
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53357] Re: Paul Trusten on Dram Vials

Paul-- You're right as always!  Next time some anti-metricationist claims
that people don't understand metric, only the customary system, say to that
person: 
Tell me:  How much is a dram when you measure out your cough syrup? I
suspect no one but you, Paul, would have the slightest idea.  I know I
don't!  --Martin M.

[USMA:53363] Re: Paul Trusten on Dram Vials

[Carleton MacDonald]

After the second or third wee dram you probably don't care too much what
it is ...

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Martin Vlietstra
Sent: Monday, October 28, 2013 13:08
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53358] Re: Paul Trusten on Dram Vials

I don't know what a dram of cough medicine is, but I am often invited to
share a wee dram with my brother-in-law (who is Scottish).  How many
Americans know what that is. :-)

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of c...@traditio.com
Sent: 27 October 2013 23:05
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53357] Re: Paul Trusten on Dram Vials

Paul-- You're right as always!  Next time some anti-metricationist claims
that people don't understand metric, only the customary system, say to that
person: 
Tell me:  How much is a dram when you measure out your cough syrup? I
suspect no one but you, Paul, would have the slightest idea.  I know I
don't!  --Martin M.

[USMA:53324] RE: Presenting the metric system to the innumerate

[Carleton MacDonald]

I’ve told this story before, but for those new on the list:

 

Many years ago the company for which I work bought some ticket printers from 
IER, a French company.  The tickets are thermally sensitive (no ink), and the 
thermal print head was a long-term consumable.  The specifications said it was 
good for 100 km of tickets.

 

This befuddled those working on the project, because to them a km was something 
only used to measure road distance, and then “not here” in the good old United 
States.

 

Since they knew even then that I only work in metric, they came to me and asked 
me how many boxes of tickets that was.

 

I said, “Give me a ruler.  A real ruler, one with millimeters on it.  And give 
me a ticket.”

 

They did (both).  I measured the ticket.  It was, for all practical purposes, 
200 mm.  (OK, it was probably eight of what they called “inches”, but close 
enough for this purpose.)

 

I thought for about 10 seconds, then said, “500 boxes.”

 

“How did you get that?”

 

“Simple.  200 mm per ticket, five to a meter.  There are 1000 tickets in the 
box, so that’s 200 m of tickets per box.  Five boxes is one km.  500 boxes is 
100 km.  Now, do that in your head using your favorite units of inches and 
miles: eight inches and a bit over 62 miles.”

 

Silence.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
j...@frewston.plus.com
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 05:24
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53321] RE: Presenting the metric system to the innumerate

 

Try the fish tank problem. You have a fish tank 20 in x 10 in x 10 in (easy 
numbers to start with, but then it gets complicated).

 

How many fish can it hold on the basis of 5 fish to a gallon? (Different 
answers for UK and US gallons). 

 

How much would the tank weigh? (Ignore the weight of the empty tank.)

 

If the shelf on which it rests can JUST support your weight, and the tank must 
weigh no more than than half your weight, what is the maximum weight of the 
tank? (Again ignore the weight of the empty tank.)

 

I can’t even think of doing this problem in imperial/USC units.

 

Now do it in metric. 

 

Tank is 50 cm x 20 cm x 20 cm. Fish at the rate of one fish per liter.

 

Volume = 50 x 20 x 20 cm = 20 000 cm³ = 20 L = 20 fish.

 

20 L weighs 20 kg. I weigh 66 kg, so well within the maximum 33 kg safe limit.

 

Metric wins in this kind of problem every time.

 

John F-L

 

 

 

From: Martin Vlietstra mailto:vliets...@btinternet.com  

Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 7:22 AM

To: U.S. Metric Association mailto:usma@colostate.edu  

Subject: [USMA:53320] RE: Presenting the metric system to the innumerate

 

Try finding the average height of the students in your class using feet and 
inches, then using metric units.

 

Next try them with a problem that a friend and I had a few years ago –what 
should the approximate diameter of a sphere be if it is to accommodate 2000 
tons of water. (They may assume that one long ton (2240 lbs) equals one short 
ton (2000 lbs) equals one tonne).  I did this problem mentally when it was 
presented to me. My reasoning was:

 

One tonne of water has a mass of one cubic metre.

We need to construct a sphere of volume 2000 cubic metres

If we work in units of 10 metres, we need to find the radius 
and therefore the diameter of a sphere with volume 2 units.

 

If you made it simpler, by requiring a cube rather than a sphere, the answer 
works out at 10*(2)^0.333 metres or approximately 13 metres.

 

I had the answer, while my friend, who was working out the same problem had 
started off : 2000*2240/62.5 to get the volume. (BTB, I am a Brit, so used 
tones of 2240 lbs – another good reason for the metric system).

 

You might also like to warn your students about the hazards of drinking in the 
UK – our pints are larger than yours. 

 

Martin

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu  
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Rittman
Sent: 12 October 2013 18:25
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53319] Presenting the metric system to the innumerate

 

I like to present the metric system to college students by first getting them 
to see the value of a decimalized system of accounting. I tell them that Thomas 
Jefferson asked Congress in the 1790s (as Sec of State, not as Prez) to 
decimalize the dollar when it was adopted as the nation’s currency, as opposed 
to the 1 pound=20 shillings=240 pence system used by Britain. I’ve typically 
let them see the utility of this system of counting, by taking our year (2013), 
and asking them if we had 2013 pennies, how much money would we have, expressed 
in terms of dollars and cents? The exercise is designed to show people how easy 
it is, to recon 2013 pennies in blocks of 100. You don’t even have to do any 
multiplication or division, you just move the decimal and arrive at $20.13. I 
then tell 

[USMA:53326] RE: Presenting the metric system to the innumerate

[Carleton MacDonald]

It is interesting to note the orders Boeing (inch-pound design) is losing to 
Airbus (metric design).  Even from such stalwarts as Japan Air Lines, which 
just made a huge A350 order.  I wonder how many of the Boeing 787 problems are 
due to forcing the foreign suppliers to manufacture in inchpound, and how many 
are just because of engineering incompetence.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
j...@frewston.plus.com
Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 14:45
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53325] RE: Presenting the metric system to the innumerate

 

One of the things that should be a worry to Americans (and indeed even to us in 
the UK, even though we are far more metricated than the US) is the fact that, 
unlike as little as 20 years ago, what were once called third world nations are 
catching up – fast. Ecommerce, the internet, and new centres of excellence in 
places like Mumbai, Bangkok, Kuala Lumpur and even Manila mean that the trading 
world no longer needs to rely on the US, the UK or even Europe for much of its 
technical knowhow. Certainly some things will always remain very advanced in 
the ‘old world’ – civil and military aircraft for one, where the expertise and 
knowledge built up by Airbus and Boeing will be hard to catch up to (as even 
China and Japan are finding out, as evidenced by the delays in rolling out 
their own regional jet programs intended to take on the Airbus A320neo and the 
Boeing 737Max). But for most of everything else, the playing field is becoming 
ever more level, and we in the old world had better watch out.

 

All this new way of working in the world will be conducted in the metric 
system. If you are not there with them, expect to get left behind.

 

John F-L

 

From: Kilopascal mailto:kilopas...@cox.net  

Sent: Sunday, October 13, 2013 6:43 PM

To: U.S. Metric Association mailto:usma@colostate.edu  

Subject: [USMA:53324] RE: Presenting the metric system to the innumerate

 

Yet, I’m sure even a realistic example like this would not be enough to 
convince anyone of those people to learn and use the metric system.   Am I 
right?

 

It is far easier for them to act dumb or find someone else to figure it out 
then to learn to do it themselves.  And we all wonder in awe why Americans, 
both children and adults, end up on the bottom of the list of people from 
around the world when it comes to solving simple problems like this.

 

It is understandable in third-world despot nations where education is a 
privilege of the rich, but not in a country where everyone is supposedly 
required to go to school.  What good is an education where nothing of value is 
learned?

 

America’s mistakes are catching up to it and sooner than everyone thinks the 
good life will come to an end in the blink of an eye.  Life is a survival of 
the smartest, not those who want to hold tight to the past.

 

 


 
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=subject:%22%5BUSMA%3A53324%5D+RE%3A+Presenting+the+metric+system+to+the+innumerate%22
 [USMA:53324] RE: Presenting the metric system to the innumerate 


 
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=from:%22Carleton+MacDonald%22
 Carleton MacDonald Sun, 13 Oct 2013 10:20:12 -0700 
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=date:20131013  

I’ve told this story before, but for those new on the list:
 
 
Many years ago the company for which I work bought some ticket printers from 
IER, a French company.  The tickets are thermally sensitive (no ink), and the 
thermal print head was a long-term consumable.  The specifications said it was 
good for 100 km of tickets.
 
 
 
This befuddled those working on the project, because to them a km was something 
only used to measure road distance, and then “not here” in the good old United 
States.
 
 
 
Since they knew even then that I only work in metric, they came to me and asked 
me how many boxes of tickets that was.
 
 
 
I said, “Give me a ruler.  A real ruler, one with millimeters on it.  And give 
me a ticket.”
 
 
 
They did (both).  I measured the ticket.  It was, for all practical purposes, 
200 mm.  (OK, it was probably eight of what they called “inches”, but close 
enough for this purpose.)
 
 
 
I thought for about 10 seconds, then said, “500 boxes.”
 
 
 
“How did you get that?”
 
 
 
“Simple.  200 mm per ticket, five to a meter.  There are 1000 tickets in the 
box, so that’s 200 m of tickets per box.  Five boxes is one km.  500 boxes is 
100 km.  Now, do that in your head using your favorite units of inches and 
miles: eight inches and a bit over 62 miles.”
 
 
 
Silence.
 
 
 

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com http://www.avg.com 
Version: 2014.0.4158 / Virus Database: 3614/6743 - Release Date: 10/11/13

[USMA:53224] RE: Has National Geographic switched to metric on TV?

[Carleton MacDonald]

Unlike the AP, they do have the correct symbol for kilometers per hour.

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 09:35
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53222] Has National Geographic switched to metric on TV?

 

If it is on YouTube, can you post the links so the rest of us can see?

 

I can think of a number of reasons why.  In the past if anyone wrote to
National Geographic and asked them to do metric, the response they were
always given was that National Geographic's primary audience was American
and surveys of Americans always resulted in a demand for USC only.  This may
be changing and the influence of the world wanting metric is more important
than the smaller US audience wanting USC.  You can't ignore the world
anymore.

 

It is also possible these programs are increasingly being produced by
non-Americans who use metric.  The programs are then bought by National
Geographic and they stick their name on it.  The American narrator may just
be a voice over who follows the script of a non-American.  

 

Here is National Geographic's style guide on unit use:

 

http://stylemanual.ngs.org/home/M/metric-international-measurement

 

 


METRIC AND INTERNATIONAL MEASUREMENT 



METRIC AND OTHER INTERNATIONAL UNITS OF MEASUREMENT

NATIONAL GEOGRAPHIC uses standard measurements except in natural history and
science articles where metric, if appropriate, may be substituted.

Supplement maps generally use standard measurements with metric in
parentheses.

Weight and measures may be abbreviated in credit lines and map notes. Such
abbreviations do not take periods; plurals do not add s or es:
vase 12 cm, 16 mm, f/22, 11 sq mi, three hr, 8-in snake, 11 min
30 sec, 49-yr span.

Note their style guide uses incorrect symbols for hours and seconds.

 

 


[USMA:53222] Has National Geographic switched to metric on TV?
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=subject:%22%5BUSM
A%3A53222%5D+Has+National+Geographic+switched+to+metric+on+TV%3F%22  


ezra . steinberg
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=from:%22ezra+.+st
einberg%22  Mon, 02 Sep 2013 21:42:30 -0700
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=date:20130902  

I've just looked at a few nature videos from National Geographic that were 
uploaded to YouTube and was surprised to hear all the narration using metric

only. 
At first I thought there was British (or South African) involvement because
the 
first narrator I heard was a Brit (or South African). But the third video
had 
an American narrator and everything was still done in metric only. 
 
 
Is this a deliberate shift on the part of the National Geographic division
that 
does nature videos? (If so, it is most welcome! And let's hope it sticks.
:-) 
 
 
Ezra 
 

 

http://www.mail-archive.com/usma@colostate.edu/msg42220.html

[USMA:53177] RE: Dual Measurements in News Articles

[Carleton MacDonald]

Associated Press article.  The copy editor is following the stylebook.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of cont...@metricpioneer.com
Sent: Monday, August 19, 2013 15:14
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53176] Dual Measurements in News Articles

I notice how American editors contort news articles every time something is
measured; typically downgrading SI to parenthetical mention, but this Yahoo
article
http://news.yahoo.com/train-kills-37-pilgrims-eastern-india-103334145.html
from India three times does the reverse: . . . train stopped a few hundred
meters (yards) beyond . . . who walked nine kilometers (six
miles) from the accident. . . Dhamara Ghat is about 280 kilometers
(175 miles) north of Patna . . .

I wish this downgrade of non-SI units would become a trend in US media.

David Pearl MetricPioneer.com 503-428-4917

[USMA:53171] RE: Post office Metric

[Carleton MacDonald]

Except when selected it's in kilograms.  This is somewhat much for a simple
letter envelope, unless you know that 25 g = 0.025 kg.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Michael Payne
Sent: Sunday, August 18, 2013 11:23
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53170] Post office Metric

I went to www.usps.com today to find the cost to mail a letter. I see there
is now an option to Enter weight as Metric.

I and others have written suggesting such, obviously someone listened.

Great News.

Mike Payne

[USMA:53148] RE: my letter to Taylor Precision Products (sent as a consumer)

[Carleton MacDonald]

Did the scale have a lb-kg switch underneath?  Mine did and all I had to do
is move the switch one time before using it, and it was all set.

My friend Barbara in Kenilworth, UK has a digital scale with three settings,
viz.: lb, kg, st.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Paul Trusten
Sent: Saturday, August 10, 2013 21:26
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53147] my letter to Taylor Precision Products (sent as a
consumer)

I am delighted with my purchase of your Taylor Digital Bath Scale, Model
7562!  It is an attractive addition to my bathroom, and I appreciate the LED
readout so the scale can be read in any light. However, I was disappointed
to discover that the measurement units defaulted to pounds, and I had to
stop and set it to read out in kilograms. I was born and raised right here
in the USA, but I think metric is the way to go now. Why not have your scale
start there? And, it also makes it easier for doctors to dose some
medications if people can conveniently report their weight to them in
kilograms.

Thanks,

Paul Trusten

[USMA:53110] RE: Living Celsius with old mechanical thermostats

[Carleton MacDonald]

I just went to Home Depot and bought a Honeywell electronic thermostat.  On
the back was a screw; if unscrewed half a turn, it changed F to C.  It's
been that way for 15 years.

House is set to 25 in summer (AC) and 20 in winter (heat).  Both are
comfortable and keep the utility bills from getting too high.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Ziser, Jesse
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2013 22:26
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53109] Living Celsius with old mechanical thermostats

I haven't posted anything on this list in forever, but after reading Paul
Trusten's article Getting Ready for life in the Celsius Lane in the
July/August issue of Metric Today, I wanted to offer some comment.

First of all, I agree with everything Paul said about how, once you've
flipped that switch to Celsius, you never look back.  It's been years now,
and I certainly haven't.  In fact, I still annoy my co-workers all the time
by reading the weather forecast off of my phone in Celsius (I don't mind
their annoyance -- it helps to raise awareness about the issue in any case).
I definitely don't think in degrees Fahrfehtnugen-or-whatever-it-is anymore.

But for me, switching my life wasn't quite as simple as flipping a switch,
because my apartment is outfitted with an old mechanical thermostat instead
of a modern, digital one.  What I did was:

- Cut a narrow slice of card stock about the same size as the old legend on
my thermostat (but a bit larger).
- Hold the slice up next to the legend and make small, light pencil marks on
the slice to indicate the position of certain reference points on the old
legend.
- Use a ruler (metric, of course... I can't imagine the suffering of trying
to do this in fractions) and some math to mark off where all the Celsius
degree positions should be on the slice so as to be evenly spaced but
correspond exactly to the non-metric units at the pencil marks made earlier.
- Label the new Celsius marks neatly in pen.
- Stick a piece of double-sided tape to the back of the slice.
- Cut the slice down to just the right size to completely cover up the old
legend (this should also cut the tape so that the tape now extends neatly
all the way to the edge).
- Stick the new legend on top of the old legend.  Be very careful to line it
up perfectly where it belongs.

My better legend is still there to this day, and has stayed firmly stuck for
years without needing re-sticking.  It's set to a comfy 25.5 right now (I
like it warmer than most people -- I'm skinny and Texan).  I don't know how
I'd survive without A/C with the streak of 40-degree evenings we had this
month!

[USMA:53087] Re: New Version of Auto Racing Performance App Released on iTunes

[Carleton MacDonald]

Maybe they are slaves to the AP Stylebook.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of j...@frewston.plus.com
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 03:17
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53086] Re: New Version of Auto Racing Performance App
Released on iTunes

Ah, if only the incredibly ignorant Sunday Times Driving section would be so
magnanimous! It stubbornly refuses to use the correct km/h, even though I
and others have pointed out its mistake. My last letter to Driving, when one
of its road testers said that the speedometer of the car he was testing
showed its speed in kph, and I said that that this tester needs to get his
eyesight tested, as no speedometer anywhere in the world will ever show kph,
was carefully not published.

None so blind, etc.

John F-L

-Original Message-
From: Daniel_Jackson
Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2013 5:09 AM
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: Fw: New Version of Auto Racing Performance App Released on iTunes

A reply from David on his use of kph instead of km/h.

--
From: David Ferguson f...@veracitydata.com
Sent: Wednesday, 2013-07-17 23:40
To: Daniel daniel_jack...@cox.net
Subject: Re: New Version of Auto Racing Performance App Released on iTunes

 Daniel,

 Thank you for bringing this to my attention. I did not realize that 
 this was in correct, but didn't take much to confirm you are right.I 
 have already changed this so that future versions will correctly refer 
 to km/h for the metric speed units.

 I appreciate the feedback.


 David Ferguson
 Veracity Racing Data
 http://veracitydata.com
 Check out Shift RPM  - http://shiftrpm.veracitydata.com

 On Jul 17, 2013, at 8:19 PM, Daniel wrote:

 You have received an inquiry on the following news release.
 
 {New Version of Auto Racing Performance App Released on iTunes}
 
 Please assist us by responding in a timely manner.

 The latest version now allows for speed in kilometers per hour (kph) 
 and miles per hour (mph).

 There is no such metric symbol as kph, the correct symbol for 
 kilometres per hour is km/h.  A picture speaks a thousand words:

 http://www.picturesof.net/pages/090621-123933-763048.html

 http://i.istockimg.com/file_thumbview_approve/3731030/2/stock-photo-3
 731030-canadian-speed-limit-sign-of-110-km-h.jpg

 http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-3731030-canadian-speed-limit-s
 ign-of-110-km-h.php

 https://encrypted-tbn2.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4DoohEOrYbEw0U
 gnpZr2AJjsOC-0J44iJbZemkMTIGNh0nmvk





 -
 No virus found in this message.
 Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
 Version: 2013.0.3349 / Virus Database: 3204/6500 - Release Date: 
 07/17/13




-
No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 2013.0.3349 / Virus Database: 3204/6498 - Release Date: 07/17/13 

[USMA:53054] Re: FAA must Metricate

[Carleton MacDonald]

I read something in The Washington Post today that hinted that Korean business 
culture, in which the boss is not challenged, may have had something to do with 
failure to react in time to a deteriorating situation.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Michael Payne
Sent: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 19:51
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53050] Re: FAA must Metricate

 

I think it's got more to do with culture than measurement. these guys were just 
not paying attention and the Korean (and Japanese) culture don't like to 
embarrass people by point out their errors, despite the fact it may kill you. 
There was a great article about 25 years ago on why some countries have bad 
safety records and others excellent records. One of the factors was the 
communication factor, are you going to embarrass the guy who is screwing things 
up? Apparently Qantas is the safest airline because Australians say what they 
think and the other guy is not embarrassed, OK Mate!

 

I don't know if its still true, but Qantas has never killed anyone, despite 
being formed in 1925. That's a hell of a record.

 

Mike Payne

 

On 08/07/2013, at 21:45  , Edward Schlesinger edws...@gmail.com 
mailto:edws...@gmail.com  wrote:





I wonder if the crash was caused by mixup of knots for feet per second?

 

On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Henschel Mark mw-hensch...@neiu.edu 
mailto:mw-hensch...@neiu.edu  wrote:

Interesting, but I still think the FAA should be covered under Executive Order 
12270.
 
Mark



- Original Message -
From: Carleton MacDonald carlet...@comcast.net mailto:carlet...@comcast.net 
Date: Monday, July 8, 2013 8:18 am
Subject: [USMA:53034] Re: FAA must Metricate
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu 

 

 


 

I learned to fly in the San Francisco Bay Area, and, back when traffic was much 
lighter, flew air taxis in and out of San Francisco International Airport.

 

The weather on Saturday was absolutely clear, bright sun, light wind.  The wind 
is normally out of the west so landing operations are made on runways 28L and 
28R.  When the weather is good, pilots will either be cleared for an ILS 
(Instrument Landing System) approach, or a visual approach.  For the latter, 
there are two sets of lights on either side of the runway, called VASI (for 
Visual Approach Slope Indicator).  These lights shine up at an angle.  If you 
are above the angle they appear white; if you are below the angle, they appear 
red.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_approach_slope_indicator

 

The idea is to have the lights closer to the approach end of the runway appear 
white, and the ones farther away appear red.  That means your descent angle is 
between the two and you will touch down between them.  With those, you descend 
by looking at the lights (so you are on the proper descent angle) and your 
airspeed indicator (so you don’t stall).  This is private pilot stuff.

 

The pilot of this particular Boeing 777 had only 44 hours in type.  (This 
includes cruising time, as well as takeoffs and landings.)  He came in too slow 
for some unknown reason and the airplane was about to stall.  Finally 
recognizing this he applied full throttle but the B777 is a ponderous beast and 
doesn’t respond the way a small airplane would.  There was not enough time or 
altitude to recover.   The tail struck the seawall at the approach end of rwy 
28L and broke off and the rest was inevitable.  I’m surprised he didn’t take 
out the approach lights while he was at it.

 

Had he coupled his ILS instruments to the rwy 28L ILS the plane would have been 
brought in automatically and all he would have had to do was to pull back the 
throttles to land.  Airbus aircraft have more systems to help keep the pilot 
out of trouble; a voice counts down the altitude to the ground (based on a 
radar altimeter, so it’s actual height above the ground, not height above sea 
level, although at SFO the two are essentially the same):  “Four hundred, three 
hundred, two hundred, one hundred, fifty, forty, thirty, twenty, retard, 
retard, retard” – the last being an admonition to the pilot to pull back 
(retard) the throttles.  I don’t know if Boeing aircraft do this – Boeing’s 
philosophy is different, they give the pilot more freedom/leeway/room to hang 
himself/etc.  I suspect if had been an Airbus the plane would have recognized 
that he was in a precarious situation and all kinds of warnings would have been 
going off in the cockpit.

 

This had nothing to do with US vs. metric altitude indications.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu  
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu ] On Behalf 
Of Henschel Mark
 Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 06:31
 To: U.S. Metric Association
 Cc: U.S. Metric Association
 Subject: [USMA:53033] Re: FAA must Metricate

 

korean pilot

admit to that  

 

i

[USMA:53034] Re: FAA must Metricate

[Carleton MacDonald]

I learned to fly in the San Francisco Bay Area, and, back when traffic was much 
lighter, flew air taxis in and out of San Francisco International Airport.

 

The weather on Saturday was absolutely clear, bright sun, light wind.  The wind 
is normally out of the west so landing operations are made on runways 28L and 
28R.  When the weather is good, pilots will either be cleared for an ILS 
(Instrument Landing System) approach, or a visual approach.  For the latter, 
there are two sets of lights on either side of the runway, called VASI (for 
Visual Approach Slope Indicator).  These lights shine up at an angle.  If you 
are above the angle they appear white; if you are below the angle, they appear 
red.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_approach_slope_indicator

 

The idea is to have the lights closer to the approach end of the runway appear 
white, and the ones farther away appear red.  That means your descent angle is 
between the two and you will touch down between them.  With those, you descend 
by looking at the lights (so you are on the proper descent angle) and your 
airspeed indicator (so you don’t stall).  This is private pilot stuff.

 

The pilot of this particular Boeing 777 had only 44 hours in type.  (This 
includes cruising time, as well as takeoffs and landings.)  He came in too slow 
for some unknown reason and the airplane was about to stall.  Finally 
recognizing this he applied full throttle but the B777 is a ponderous beast and 
doesn’t respond the way a small airplane would.  There was not enough time or 
altitude to recover.   The tail struck the seawall at the approach end of rwy 
28L and broke off and the rest was inevitable.  I’m surprised he didn’t take 
out the approach lights while he was at it.

 

Had he coupled his ILS instruments to the rwy 28L ILS the plane would have been 
brought in automatically and all he would have had to do was to pull back the 
throttles to land.  Airbus aircraft have more systems to help keep the pilot 
out of trouble; a voice counts down the aititude to the ground (based on a 
radar altimeter, so it’s actual height above the ground, not height above sea 
level, although at SFO the two are essentially the same):  “Four hundred, three 
hundred, two hundred, one hundred, fifty, forty, thirty, twenty, retard, 
retard, retard” – the last being an admonition to the pilot to pull back 
(retard) the throttles.  I don’t know if Boeing aircraft do this – Boeing’s 
philosophy is different, they give the pilot more freedom/leeway/room to hang 
himself/etc.  I suspect if had been an Airbus the plane would have recognized 
that he was in a precarious situation and all kinds of warnings would have been 
going off in the cockpit.

 

This had nothing to do with US vs. metric altitude indications.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Henschel Mark
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 06:31
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53033] Re: FAA must Metricate

 

korean pilot

admit to that  

i wonder when the faa will go metric

part of e.o. 12270

 



- Original Message -
From: Bruce Arkwright Jr a-bruie...@lycos.com mailto:a-bruie...@lycos.com 
Date: Monday, July 8, 2013 12:41 am
Subject: [USMA:53031] FAA must Metricate
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu 

 What if that poor tired Vietnamese pilot, forget he had hit the 
 convert button, after crossing into our air space, but still 
 read meters instead of feet as he aproched the landing strip? 
 Will FAA emit to that? At any rate its time for FAA to get on board!
 
 
 Bruce E. Arkwright, Jr
 Erie PA
 Linux and Metric User and Enforcer
 
 
 I will only invest in nukes that are 150 gigameters away. How 
 much solar energy have you collected today?
 Id put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of 
 power! I hope we dont have to wait til oil and coal run out 
 before we tackle that. I wish I had a few more years left. -- 
 Thomas Edison♽☯♑
 

[USMA:53035] Re: FAA must Metricate

[Carleton MacDonald]

Resent, but with this story that just came out.

 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/local/trafficandcommuting/2-killed-182-hospitalized-as-s-korean-jet-crash-lands-in-san-francisco/2013/07/07/4d8c5e9c-e705-11e2-aa9f-c03a72e2d342_story.html?wprss=rss_homepage

 

 

I learned to fly in the San Francisco Bay Area, and, back when traffic was much 
lighter, flew air taxis in and out of San Francisco International Airport.

 

The weather on Saturday was absolutely clear, bright sun, light wind.  The wind 
is normally out of the west so landing operations are made on runways 28L and 
28R.  When the weather is good, pilots will either be cleared for an ILS 
(Instrument Landing System) approach, or a visual approach.  For the latter, 
there are two sets of lights on either side of the runway, called VASI (for 
Visual Approach Slope Indicator).  These lights shine up at an angle.  If you 
are above the angle they appear white; if you are below the angle, they appear 
red.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_approach_slope_indicator

 

The idea is to have the lights closer to the approach end of the runway appear 
white, and the ones farther away appear red.  That means your descent angle is 
between the two and you will touch down between them.  With those, you descend 
by looking at the lights (so you are on the proper descent angle) and your 
airspeed indicator (so you don’t stall).  This is private pilot stuff.

 

The pilot of this particular Boeing 777 had only 44 hours in type.  (This 
includes cruising time, as well as takeoffs and landings.)  He came in too slow 
for some unknown reason and the airplane was about to stall.  Finally 
recognizing this he applied full throttle but the B777 is a ponderous beast and 
doesn’t respond the way a small airplane would.  There was not enough time or 
altitude to recover.   The tail struck the seawall at the approach end of rwy 
28L and broke off and the rest was inevitable.  I’m surprised he didn’t take 
out the approach lights while he was at it.

 

Had he coupled his ILS instruments to the rwy 28L ILS the plane would have been 
brought in automatically and all he would have had to do was to pull back the 
throttles to land.  Airbus aircraft have more systems to help keep the pilot 
out of trouble; a voice counts down the aititude to the ground (based on a 
radar altimeter, so it’s actual height above the ground, not height above sea 
level, although at SFO the two are essentially the same):  “Four hundred, three 
hundred, two hundred, one hundred, fifty, forty, thirty, twenty, retard, 
retard, retard” – the last being an admonition to the pilot to pull back 
(retard) the throttles.  I don’t know if Boeing aircraft do this – Boeing’s 
philosophy is different, they give the pilot more freedom/leeway/room to hang 
himself/etc.  I suspect if had been an Airbus the plane would have recognized 
that he was in a precarious situation and all kinds of warnings would have been 
going off in the cockpit.

 

This had nothing to do with US vs. metric altitude indications.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Henschel Mark
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 06:31
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53033] Re: FAA must Metricate

 

korean pilot

admit to that  

i wonder when the faa will go metric

part of e.o. 12270

 



- Original Message -
From: Bruce Arkwright Jr a-bruie...@lycos.com mailto:a-bruie...@lycos.com 
Date: Monday, July 8, 2013 12:41 am
Subject: [USMA:53031] FAA must Metricate
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu 

 What if that poor tired Vietnamese pilot, forget he had hit the 
 convert button, after crossing into our air space, but still 
 read meters instead of feet as he aproched the landing strip? 
 Will FAA emit to that? At any rate its time for FAA to get on board!
 
 
 Bruce E. Arkwright, Jr
 Erie PA
 Linux and Metric User and Enforcer
 
 
 I will only invest in nukes that are 150 gigameters away. How 
 much solar energy have you collected today?
 Id put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of 
 power! I hope we dont have to wait til oil and coal run out 
 before we tackle that. I wish I had a few more years left. -- 
 Thomas Edison♽☯♑
 

[USMA:53042] RE: Why We Should Switch To A Base-12 Counting System

[Carleton MacDonald]

Two comments:

In change bell ringing, the towers where I ring have 10 bells, and in place
notation they are:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0.

Some towers, such as in New York, have 12 bells, and they are:

1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 0, E, T.

Counting using digits:  Yes, if we used sandals, we could do base 20; half
the population perhaps could use base 21.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of i...@metricrules.org
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 20:41
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53041] Why We Should Switch To A Base-12 Counting System

FYI- 

http://io9.com/5977095/why-we-should-switch-to-a-base+12-counting-system


Sent from my iPad

[USMA:53044] Re: FAA must Metricate

[Carleton MacDonald]

Probably not.  The flight was cleared for a visual approach, and every pilot 
learns very early that you do not get below the correct glide path angle.  You 
can easily see it out the window.  Part of the runway is visually moving away 
from you, and part is moving toward you.  The spot that is NOT moving is where 
you will touch down.  If that spot is not in the right place, correct things 
until it is!  On a visual approach you need to monitor your airspeed so you do 
not get too slow (or fast); otherwise, look out the window.

 

The real problem is no one was monitoring the airspeed until it was too late 
and the plane started a high sink rate with no room left to correct it.

 

For some really interesting discussion, go to www.airliners.net 
http://www.airliners.net  and look at the Civil Aviation forum.  The 
discussion of his incident is already up to six different messages.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Edward Schlesinger
Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 21:46
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:53043] Re: FAA must Metricate

 

I wonder if the crash was caused by mixup of knots for feet per second?

 

On Mon, Jul 8, 2013 at 2:15 PM, Henschel Mark mw-hensch...@neiu.edu 
mailto:mw-hensch...@neiu.edu  wrote:

Interesting, but I still think the FAA should be covered under Executive Order 
12270.
 
Mark



- Original Message -
From: Carleton MacDonald carlet...@comcast.net mailto:carlet...@comcast.net 
Date: Monday, July 8, 2013 8:18 am
Subject: [USMA:53034] Re: FAA must Metricate
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu 

 


I learned to fly in the San Francisco Bay Area, and, back when traffic was much 
lighter, flew air taxis in and out of San Francisco International Airport.

 

The weather on Saturday was absolutely clear, bright sun, light wind.  The wind 
is normally out of the west so landing operations are made on runways 28L and 
28R.  When the weather is good, pilots will either be cleared for an ILS 
(Instrument Landing System) approach, or a visual approach.  For the latter, 
there are two sets of lights on either side of the runway, called VASI (for 
Visual Approach Slope Indicator).  These lights shine up at an angle.  If you 
are above the angle they appear white; if you are below the angle, they appear 
red.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_approach_slope_indicator

 

The idea is to have the lights closer to the approach end of the runway appear 
white, and the ones farther away appear red.  That means your descent angle is 
between the two and you will touch down between them.  With those, you descend 
by looking at the lights (so you are on the proper descent angle) and your 
airspeed indicator (so you don’t stall).  This is private pilot stuff.

 

The pilot of this particular Boeing 777 had only 44 hours in type.  (This 
includes cruising time, as well as takeoffs and landings.)  He came in too slow 
for some unknown reason and the airplane was about to stall.  Finally 
recognizing this he applied full throttle but the B777 is a ponderous beast and 
doesn’t respond the way a small airplane would.  There was not enough time or 
altitude to recover.   The tail struck the seawall at the approach end of rwy 
28L and broke off and the rest was inevitable.  I’m surprised he didn’t take 
out the approach lights while he was at it.

 

Had he coupled his ILS instruments to the rwy 28L ILS the plane would have been 
brought in automatically and all he would have had to do was to pull back the 
throttles to land.  Airbus aircraft have more systems to help keep the pilot 
out of trouble; a voice counts down the aititude to the ground (based on a 
radar altimeter, so it’s actual height above the ground, not height above sea 
level, although at SFO the two are essentially the same):  “Four hundred, three 
hundred, two hundred, one hundred, fifty, forty, thirty, twenty, retard, 
retard, retard” – the last being an admonition to the pilot to pull back 
(retard) the throttles.  I don’t know if Boeing aircraft do this – Boeing’s 
philosophy is different, they give the pilot more freedom/leeway/room to hang 
himself/etc.  I suspect if had been an Airbus the plane would have recognized 
that he was in a precarious situation and all kinds of warnings would have been 
going off in the cockpit.

 

This had nothing to do with US vs. metric altitude indications.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu  
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu ] On Behalf 
Of Henschel Mark
 Sent: Monday, July 08, 2013 06:31
 To: U.S. Metric Association
 Cc: U.S. Metric Association
 Subject: [USMA:53033] Re: FAA must Metricate

 

korean pilot

admit to that  

 

i wonder when the faa will go metric

 

part of e.o. 12270

 

 

 


 
 - Original Message -
 From: Bruce Arkwright Jr a-bruie...@lycos.com mailto:a-bruie

[USMA:53010] Area codes, was: RE: Metrication in Australia | Metric Views

[Carleton MacDonald]

Area code additions nowadays are overoay area codes.  That is, a new area
code is introduced in the same area as the old one, rather than having the
area of the old one split, and the area now has two area codes.  Reason -
You can only slice and dice an area code so much before it becomes so small
that it's practically unusable.  Example: 301 and 240 in Maryland, 212 and
646 in Manhattan.

 

Benefits:  Existing phone numbers are not changed.

Side effect:  EVERYONE has to dial the entire nine-digit phone number, area
code included.  No more dialing only the seven digits even if your area code
and the one you are dialing is the same.  However, with cell phones, you
have to dial all ten numbers anyway so this is no big deal.

 

Back in the 1980s when I lived there 415 was the entire Bay Area except for
Santa Clara County (San Jose) which was 408.  Now, 415 is only San Francisco
and Marin County.  The East Bay west of the Berkeley Hills is 510, and the
area east of the Berkeley Hills is 925.

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 08:36
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: Metrication in Australia | Metric Views

 

Some years ago, I mentioned that dual labeling of products serves no purpose
as people continue to look at the familiar and ignore the new.  I cited as
an example the situation with area codes in the US.  

 

Back in the late '90s the area code where I live was split twice.  In each
case there was a 6 month dual use period where both area codes worked and
the idea was for people to start using the new area code so there would be a
smooth transition when the old one was cut off.  

 

It didn't work as hoped.   The new area code was ignored until it was cut
off and calls were not going through and the telephone company was flooded
with calls by people unable to place calls.  A number of people pleaded
ignorant of not knowing this change was taking place despite numerous
advertisements.  

 

I argued that because of this, a dual period is useless.  However, I was
corrected by being told the dual period was meant more for business.  It was
designed to give them enough time to use up old stationary and letter heads.
If there was an abrupt change businesses would be sending out letters with
old area codes that would not work.  Of course, now a days with most
correspondences done via emails and the internet, fewer and fewer companies
bother to pre-print letter-headed paper, or they do it on a need be basis
with their own word processor.  

 

Of course, this is not the same for labels and such a dual period is
useless.  since we have already experienced 20 years of dual labels, there
is no need to extend it further in the event of metrication.  Businesses
could introduce metric sizes with a special label that is seen quite often
already.  A bonus label.  Like:  New metric size:  500 mL replaces 16 fl oz
(473 mL); 5 % more.

 

Of course, chances are, that 473 mL would not be increased but downsized and
I can't see a company advertising a lower amount without an accompanying
lower price and that won't happen.  450 mL would be a decrease of 5 % from
473 mL and to those who like to divide by thirds, 450 mL would be 3 equal
parts of 150 mL each.

 

 

 

 http://metricviews.org.uk/2013/06/metrication-in-australia/#comments
http://metricviews.org.uk/2013/06/metrication-in-australia/#comments

 

John Steele says: 

2013-06-26 at 15:28
http://metricviews.org.uk/2013/06/metrication-in-australia/comment-page-1/#
comment-32707  

Sorry, but I missed a sixth take-away:
6) Dual labeling hinders rather than helps on page 19. This is stated again
in detailed sector plans in chapter 9 and conclusions in chapter 10.

I think this is supported by the fact that dual labeling has been required
under FPLA in the US since 1994, and we STILL aren't ready in 2013 for even
permissive-metric-only (where dual would be allowed, but not required), more
less a law requiring metric only. Dual is a false crutch, it helps most
people avoid the issue, not learn metric.

[USMA:53013] RE: Area codes, was: RE: Metrication in Australia | Metric Views

[Carleton MacDonald]

All the gory details can be found here.

 

http://www.nanpa.com/

 

From: Scott Hudnall [mailto:usmetric...@gmail.com] 
Sent: Sunday, June 30, 2013 20:03
To: carlet...@comcast.net
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: Re: [USMA:53010] Area codes, was: RE: Metrication in Australia |
Metric Views

 

Don't forget 650 for the Peninsula. Also, 408 just got overlaid with 669,
415 is being overlaid with 628, and they have announced 510 is getting an
overlay too, but they haven't published what that number is.

 

 

On Jun 30, 2013, at 12:59 , Carleton MacDonald wrote:





Area code additions nowadays are overoay area codes.  That is, a new area
code is introduced in the same area as the old one, rather than having the
area of the old one split, and the area now has two area codes.  Reason -
You can only slice and dice an area code so much before it becomes so small
that it's practically unusable.  Example: 301 and 240 in Maryland, 212 and
646 in Manhattan.

 

Benefits:  Existing phone numbers are not changed.

Side effect:  EVERYONE has to dial the entire nine-digit phone number, area
code included.  No more dialing only the seven digits even if your area code
and the one you are dialing is the same.  However, with cell phones, you
have to dial all ten numbers anyway so this is no big deal.

 

Back in the 1980s when I lived there 415 was the entire Bay Area except for
Santa Clara County (San Jose) which was 408.  Now, 415 is only San Francisco
and Marin County.  The East Bay west of the Berkeley Hills is 510, and the
area east of the Berkeley Hills is 925.

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Saturday, June 29, 2013 08:36
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: Metrication in Australia | Metric Views

 

Some years ago, I mentioned that dual labeling of products serves no purpose
as people continue to look at the familiar and ignore the new.  I cited as
an example the situation with area codes in the US. 

 

Back in the late '90s the area code where I live was split twice.  In each
case there was a 6 month dual use period where both area codes worked and
the idea was for people to start using the new area code so there would be a
smooth transition when the old one was cut off. 

 

It didn't work as hoped.   The new area code was ignored until it was cut
off and calls were not going through and the telephone company was flooded
with calls by people unable to place calls.  A number of people pleaded
ignorant of not knowing this change was taking place despite numerous
advertisements. 

 

I argued that because of this, a dual period is useless.  However, I was
corrected by being told the dual period was meant more for business.  It was
designed to give them enough time to use up old stationary and letter heads.
If there was an abrupt change businesses would be sending out letters with
old area codes that would not work.  Of course, now a days with most
correspondences done via emails and the internet, fewer and fewer companies
bother to pre-print letter-headed paper, or they do it on a need be basis
with their own word processor.  

 

Of course, this is not the same for labels and such a dual period is
useless.  since we have already experienced 20 years of dual labels, there
is no need to extend it further in the event of metrication.  Businesses
could introduce metric sizes with a special label that is seen quite often
already.  A bonus label.  Like:  New metric size:  500 mL replaces 16 fl oz
(473 mL); 5 % more.

 

Of course, chances are, that 473 mL would not be increased but downsized and
I can't see a company advertising a lower amount without an accompanying
lower price and that won't happen.  450 mL would be a decrease of 5 % from
473 mL and to those who like to divide by thirds, 450 mL would be 3 equal
parts of 150 mL each.

 

 

 

 http://metricviews.org.uk/2013/06/metrication-in-australia/#comments
http://metricviews.org.uk/2013/06/metrication-in-australia/#comments

 

John Steele says:

2013-06-26 at 15:28
http://metricviews.org.uk/2013/06/metrication-in-australia/comment-page-1/#
comment-32707 

Sorry, but I missed a sixth take-away:
6) Dual labeling hinders rather than helps on page 19. This is stated again
in detailed sector plans in chapter 9 and conclusions in chapter 10.

I think this is supported by the fact that dual labeling has been required
under FPLA in the US since 1994, and we STILL aren't ready in 2013 for even
permissive-metric-only (where dual would be allowed, but not required), more
less a law requiring metric only. Dual is a false crutch, it helps most
people avoid the issue, not learn metric.

 

[USMA:52996] Re: Si and Agriculture examples

[Carleton MacDonald]

In my case, from my house to the traffic light at the main street
intersection is exactly 1 km.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Natalia Permiakova
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 15:46
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52994] Re: Si and Agriculture examples

 

I visualize a kilometer as something you can cover by walking during 1/5 of
an hour ~10 min (since 5 km/h is the average walking speed), 100 meters is a
distance we ran in school, which fit on strait side of the school stadium   

 

Natalie

 

  _  

From: Henschel Mark mw-hensch...@neiu.edu mailto:mw-hensch...@neiu.edu 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu
 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu
 
Sent: Wednesday, June 26, 2013 12:45 PM
Subject: [USMA:52991] Re: Si and Agriculture examples

 

Well, I can help you visualize the size of metric units.
 
I think of a hectare as two football fields side by side.
 
(I think of football as a game where the object is to kick a ball into a
net. The player who causes a minor foul gets a yellow card and the players
who cause major fouls get red cards and get evicted from the game. The
Chicago football team is called the Chicago Fire.)
 I suppose this designation might not work with people who don't have a
sense of humor, but here is something else:
 
Think of a kilometer as five city blocks. Or a railroad train 60 cars long.
Or perhaps three Eiffel towers or ten Statues of Liberty.
Then this distance in two dimensions would be an approximation to visualize
a square kilometer. (Perhaps 25 city blocks in many US cities)
 
Mark

- Original Message -
From: i...@metricrules.org mailto:i...@metricrules.org 
i...@metricrules.org mailto:i...@metricrules.org 
Date: Tuesday, June 25, 2013 6:19 pm
Subject: [USMA:52985] Si and Agriculture examples
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 

 




Hello Everyone:

 
 

I am writing an article about the benefits of using SI units
 in Agriculture. I need concrete, real world examples of easy calculations
such
 water needed per square meter or any other interesting, persuasive
examples.
 

 
 

I know I have seen many examples associated with different
 topics. 

 
 

Many thanks, 

 
 

Bridget

 
 

 

[USMA:52932] Re: (Off Topic) Paper size ratios

[Carleton MacDonald]

A0 = 1 square meter (but it's not a square).  If paper is 80g/sq m (sorry
for no superscript, it's late), then it weights 80 g.
A1 = half a square meter = 40 g
A2 = quarter square meter = 20 g
A3 = eighth square meter = 10 g
A4 = sixteenth square meter = 5 g

So if your country ups the postage after 30 g you know you can put five
pieces of paper into a 5 g envelope and pay only basic postage.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Pierre Abbat
Sent: Friday, June 14, 2013 20:17
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52931] Re: (Off Topic) Paper size ratios

On Friday, June 14, 2013 17:51:28 James Frysinger wrote:
 But we also know that the A series is no more SI-based than my 
 Great-Aunt Penelope's petunia patch. So, this is indeed an off-topic 
 email. Apologies given, if you feel you deserve them. Grin.

An A0 sheet is one square meter (minus 51 mm², which is easy to add back by
changing the temperature and humidity). A B0 sheet is 1 m on a side.

Pierre
--
lo ponse be lo mruli ku po'o cu ga'ezga roda lo ka dinko

[USMA:52871] Re: A Response to the Metric Petition at We The People

[Carleton MacDonald]

My two sons, Evan and Jeffrey, were born in 1984 and 1986 respectively, at
the Kaiser Permanente Hospital in San Francisco, California (this made them
fourth generation native San Franciscans, but who's bragging?).

 

In his medical records, and on the card that was fastened to his bassinette,
Evan was noted as being 3690 g.

 

Jeffrey was bigger: 4390 g.

 

That's how Kaiser did it 29 years ago.  And no, I don't know what they were
in colonial units; I never learned nor remembered that.  I remembered what
Kaiser put down.

 

Even though it's over 999 g, this makes sense:  whole numbers, no decimals,
and a proper degree of accuracy.

 

Same reason much construction is done in millimeters, even when the lengths
are long:  whole numbers good, decimals and fractions bad.  Especially
fractions.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of mechtly, eugene a
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 15:18
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: mechtly, eugene a
Subject: [USMA:52869] Re: A Response to the Metric Petition at We The People

 

Mark,

 

The body mass of new-born infants typically lies between about 2500 grams
and 4500 grams. 

 

This range is, of course, easily expressed as 2.5 kg to 4.5 kg.

 

However, If you had the assignment of setting up a digital database for the
body masses of new-born infants, under the constraint that there must be as
few unessential symbols (e.g. decimal markers) as possible and yet with a
required precision of data entry to the nearest gram, you would almost be
forced to accept four digit numbers such as 3456 (grams).

 

What is the actual practice in digital databased of modern hospitals?  

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu
[owner-u...@colostate.edu] on behalf of Henschel Mark
[mw-hensch...@neiu.edu]
Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 10:52 AM
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association; mechtly, eugene a
Subject: [USMA:52851] Re: A Response to the Metric Petition at We The People

Have you noticed that the nutrition standards for sodium read less than
2,400 mg?
Seems even the government standards writers can't figure out that 2,400 mg
is the same as 2.4 grams.
 
Mark

- Original Message -
From: mechtly, eugene a mech...@illinois.edu
mailto:mech...@illinois.edu 
Date: Sunday, June 2, 2013 4:01 pm
Subject: [USMA:52843] A Response to the Metric Petition at We The People
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: mechtly, eugene a mech...@illinois.edu mailto:mech...@illinois.edu


 The Metric Petition: Make the Metric system the standard in the 
 United States ...
 
 A well documented Response:
 
 1.  The World Standard for units of measurement is the 
 International System of Units (SI).
 
 2.  The America COMPETES Act, Public Law 110-69 of 2007, 
 states that the metric system of measurement shall be defined as 
 the International System of Units ...
 
 3.  The Metric Conversion Act, Public Law 94-168 of 1975, 
 designates the metric system of measurement as the preferred 
 system ... for United States trade and commerce.
 
 4.  In harmony with these acts of Congress, new digital 
 Medical Records are now entered almost 100% in SI units of 
 measurement or in units approved for use with SI units, for 
 example, in liters or in milliliters or in deciliters.
 
 5.  Pharmacy products are now sold nearly 100% in SI units, 
 whether by prescription or by over the counter sale.
 
 6.  Labels on most Consumer Products, including Foods, now 
 include declarations of net contents in SI units.
 
 7.  Labels of Nutritional Facts on most containers of 
 Foods are now nearly 100% in SI units.
 
 8.  The Automobile Manufacturing Industry, now 
 international in scope, uses nearly 100% SI units of 
 measurement. 
 
 9. STEM education is predominately in SI units of measurement.
 
 SI is already the standard for units of measurement in the 
 United States!
 
 Most units which lie outside the SI that are 
 still used in the United States, are now defined as numerical 
 multiples of SI units.  Metallic artifacts are no longer 
 maintained to define directly these units outside the SI.
 
 For additional documentation see NIST SP 330 and NIST SP 811.
 All the Acts and Documents cited above are downloadable over the 
 Internet.
 Eugene Mechtly
 

[USMA:52875] RE: Re: A Response to the Metric Petition at We The People

[Carleton MacDonald]

We had a health fair at work the other day.  After measuring height (the
device had both in and cm) and weight (display was in lb only), the woman
had to consult a chart to find out my BMI.  I already knew my mass in kg and
my height (1.79 m) so I just took out my iPhone, went to
Utilities/Calculator, entered in the kg, divided by 1.79, divided by 1.79
again, and gave her the answer before she got it from the chart.  I told her
if you measure people properly the calculations are easy.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Henschel Mark
Sent: Tuesday, June 04, 2013 21:16
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association; mechtly, eugene a
Subject: [USMA:52872] RE: Re: A Response to the Metric Petition at We The
People

 

Not to be confused with body mass index, which is mass divided by length
squared, or kilograms per square meter.

 

Mark

- Original Message -
From: mechtly, eugene a mech...@illinois.edu
mailto:mech...@illinois.edu 
Date: Tuesday, June 4, 2013 2:19 pm
Subject: RE: [USMA:52851] Re: A Response to the Metric Petition at We The
People
To: mw-hensch...@neiu.edu mailto:mw-hensch...@neiu.edu 
mw-hensch...@neiu.edu mailto:mw-hensch...@neiu.edu , U.S. Metric
Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: mechtly, eugene a mech...@illinois.edu mailto:mech...@illinois.edu


 


 
 
 
 
 


 


 

Mark,


 


 
 


 The body mass of new-born infants typically lies between about 2500 grams
and 4500 grams.
 


 
 


 

This range is, of course, easily expressed as 2.5 kg to 4.5 kg.


 


 
 


 

However, If you had the assignment of setting up a digital database for the
body masses of new-born infants, under the constraint that there must be as
few unessential symbols (e.g. decimal markers) as possible and yet with a
required precision of data
 entry to the nearest gram, you would almost be forced to accept four digit
numbers such as 3456 (grams).


 


 
 


 

What is the actual practice in digital databased of modern hospitals?  
 
 


 
 


 


 


 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu
[owner-u...@colostate.edu] on behalf of Henschel Mark
[mw-hensch...@neiu.edu]
 
 Sent: Monday, June 03, 2013 10:52 AM
 
 To: U.S. Metric Association
 
 Cc: U.S. Metric Association; mechtly, eugene a
 
 Subject: [USMA:52851] Re: A Response to the Metric Petition at We The
People
 
 
 
 


 


 

Have you noticed that the nutrition standards for sodium read less than
2,400 mg?
 
 Seems even the government standards writers can't figure out that 2,400 mg
is the same as 2.4 grams.
 
  
 
 Mark
 
 
 
 - Original Message -
 
 From: mechtly, eugene a mech...@illinois.edu
mailto:mech...@illinois.edu 
 
 Date: Sunday, June 2, 2013 4:01 pm
 
 Subject: [USMA:52843] A Response to the Metric Petition at We The People
 
 To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 
 
 Cc: mechtly, eugene a mech...@illinois.edu
mailto:mech...@illinois.edu 
 
 
 
  The Metric Petition: Make the Metric system the standard in the 
 
  United States ...
 
  
 
  A well documented Response:
 
  
 
  1.  The World Standard for units of measurement is the 
 
  International System of Units (SI).
 
  
 
  2.  The America COMPETES Act, Public Law 110-69 of 2007, 
 
  states that the metric system of measurement shall be defined as 
 
  the International System of Units ...
 
  
 
  3.  The Metric Conversion Act, Public Law 94-168 of 1975, 
 
  designates the metric system of measurement as the preferred 
 
  system ... for United States trade and commerce.
 
  
 
  4.  In harmony with these acts of Congress, new digital 
 
  Medical Records are now entered almost 100% in SI units of 
 
  measurement or in units approved for use with SI units, for 
 
  example, in liters or in milliliters or in deciliters.
 
  
 
  5.  Pharmacy products are now sold nearly 100% in SI units, 
 
  whether by prescription or by over the counter sale.
 
  
 
  6.  Labels on most Consumer Products, including Foods, now 
 
  include declarations of net contents in SI units.
 
  
 
  7.  Labels of Nutritional Facts on most containers of 
 
  Foods are now nearly 100% in SI units.
 
  
 
  8.  The Automobile Manufacturing Industry, now 
 
  international in scope, uses nearly 100% SI units of 
 
  measurement. 
 
  
 
  9. STEM education is predominately in SI units of measurement.
 
  
 
  SI is already the standard for units of measurement in the 
 
  United States!
 
  
 
  Most units which lie outside the SI that are 
 
  still used in the United States, are now defined as numerical 
 
  multiples of SI units.  Metallic artifacts are no longer 
 
  maintained to define directly these units outside the SI.
 
  
 
  For additional documentation see NIST SP 330 and NIST SP 811.
 
  All the Acts and Documents cited above are downloadable over the 
 
  Internet.
 
  Eugene Mechtly
 
  


 


 


 


 


 
 
 

[USMA:52673] Measuring change ringing bells, was: Germany: Thieves swipe 5 tons of chocolate spread

[Carleton MacDonald]

No, this is due to Tradition.  Change bell ringing is a very old Tradition,
which is another way of saying “Don’t change anything ever.”  The bells were
measured that way hundreds of years ago in a way that almost everything was
– remember, most people back then could not comprehend large numbers (as in:
one, two, three, many).  There is no intent to deliberately confuse, it is
just the way things are done.  It’s related to the ancient concept of
measuring the height of horses in “hands” (the “hand” is defined as 4
inches) because, hundreds of years ago, that’s what people used (literally).

 

None of the bells in the various web sites Martin sent along are change
ringing bells, so they would be measured “normally”, that is, in kg,
possibly with pounds.  Only change ringing bells are measured using
hundredweights, quarters and pounds.  

 

It is hard to figure out how great or small the mass is of any bell when
measured in that archaic manner, but I suppose it does have some utility in
comparing the size of bells to each other.  That is, the tenor bell at the
Washington National Cathedral, 32-0-4 by the ancient measure (3588 lb or
1629 kg), is over seven times the size of the heaviest bell at St.
Martin-in-the-Fields in Philadelphia, 4-2-8 (512 lb or 232 kg).

 

We have a plaque in the Cathedral bell tower describing the bells and their
dedication.  The mass of each bell is shown and it is in pounds only, as no
one but a change ringer would have ANY idea what “32-0-4” meant.

 

The main reason we keep having to measure the bells that way is because
there would be a giant uproar from the UK if we didn’t.  And of the 5300 or
so change bell ringing towers in the world with bells, over 5100 of them are
in the UK.

 

In postinig 3

 

 

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Sunday, April 14, 2013 10:06
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52671] RE: Germany: Thieves swipe 5 tons of chocolate spread

 

First of all I would be curious to know who today can visualise and
comprehend hundredweights and quarters without first converting it either
physically (with paper, pencil and calculator) or mentally to either
kilograms or pounds?  If virtually no one can, then what purpose is there to
state something in these obsolete units other then to deliberately confuse?
I'm sure some will use the excuse of tradition, but traditions can and do
change with the times.  

 

I find Martin's Wikipedia article somewhat odd.  Why are all the pound
weights in round numbers and the kilograms are exact conversions right down
to the kilogram?  Is someone going to tell me that those bells were made to
an exact hundred thousands of pounds?  

 


Heaviest functioning bell in the world


The title of most massive functioning bell in the world has been held
chronologically by:


Year

lb

tons

kg

Bell

Fate


732

96,000

48

43,545

 To-dai-ji Temple Bell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C5%8Ddai-ji 

Surpassed


1484

655,000

327.5

297,103

 Great Bell of Dhammazedi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Bell_of_Dhammazedi 

Sunk during transport


1602

96,000

48

43,545

 To-dai-ji Temple Bell

Surpassed


1633

148,000

74

67,132

 Chion-in Temple Bell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chion-in 

Surpassed


1810

195,000

97.5

88,451

 Mingun Bell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mingun_Bell 

Fell during earthquake


1839

148,000

74

67,132

 Chion-in Temple Bell

Surpassed


1896

195,000

97.5

88,451

 Mingun Bell

Surpassed


1902

251,000

125.5

113,852

 Shitennō-ji Temple Bell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shitenn%C5%8D-ji 

Recycled for war


1942

195,000

97.5

88,451

 Mingun Bell

Surpassed


2000

255,200

127.6

115,757

 Bell of Good Luck http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_of_Good_Luck 

Incumbent

 

Was the Bell of Good Luck made in China in 2000 made to a nice round number
of pounds?  Why don't the tons have the same numerals as the kilograms if
the ton (tonne) is a true 1000 kg?  If the pound weights were made round
because pound users can't deal with too many digits and are not the true
weights to begin with, then the metric masses should also be rounded to
afford them the same relative accuracy.

 

 


[USMA:52671] RE: Germany: Thieves swipe 5 tons of chocolate spread
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=subject:%22%5BUSM
A%3A52671%5D+RE%3A+Germany%3A+Thieves+swipe+5+tons+of+chocolate+spread%22  


Martin Vlietstra
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=from:%22Martin+Vl
ietstra%22  Sun, 14 Apr 2013 00:12:36 -0700
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=date:20130414  

In spite of that, Wikipedia does not follow that convention - see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heaviest_bells and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_(instrument) .
 
 
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Carleton MacDonald
Sent: 13 April 2013 22:28
To: U.S. Metric Association

[USMA:52674] Measuring change ringing bells, was: Germany: Thieves swipe 5 tons of chocolate spread

[Carleton MacDonald]

 be curious to know who today can visualise and
comprehend hundredweights and quarters without first converting it either
physically (with paper, pencil and calculator) or mentally to either
kilograms or pounds?  If virtually no one can, then what purpose is there to
state something in these obsolete units other then to deliberately confuse?
I'm sure some will use the excuse of tradition, but traditions can and do
change with the times.  

 

I find Martin's Wikipedia article somewhat odd.  Why are all the pound
weights in round numbers and the kilograms are exact conversions right down
to the kilogram?  Is someone going to tell me that those bells were made to
an exact hundred thousands of pounds?  

 


Heaviest functioning bell in the world


The title of most massive functioning bell in the world has been held
chronologically by:


Year

lb

tons

kg

Bell

Fate


732

96,000

48

43,545

 To-dai-ji Temple Bell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T%C5%8Ddai-ji 

Surpassed


1484

655,000

327.5

297,103

 Great Bell of Dhammazedi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Bell_of_Dhammazedi 

Sunk during transport


1602

96,000

48

43,545

 To-dai-ji Temple Bell

Surpassed


1633

148,000

74

67,132

 Chion-in Temple Bell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chion-in 

Surpassed


1810

195,000

97.5

88,451

 Mingun Bell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mingun_Bell 

Fell during earthquake


1839

148,000

74

67,132

 Chion-in Temple Bell

Surpassed


1896

195,000

97.5

88,451

 Mingun Bell

Surpassed


1902

251,000

125.5

113,852

 Shitennō-ji Temple Bell http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shitenn%C5%8D-ji 

Recycled for war


1942

195,000

97.5

88,451

 Mingun Bell

Surpassed


2000

255,200

127.6

115,757

 Bell of Good Luck http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_of_Good_Luck 

Incumbent

 

Was the Bell of Good Luck made in China in 2000 made to a nice round number
of pounds?  Why don't the tons have the same numerals as the kilograms if
the ton (tonne) is a true 1000 kg?  If the pound weights were made round
because pound users can't deal with too many digits and are not the true
weights to begin with, then the metric masses should also be rounded to
afford them the same relative accuracy.

 

 


[USMA:52671] RE: Germany: Thieves swipe 5 tons of chocolate spread
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=subject:%22%5BUSM
A%3A52671%5D+RE%3A+Germany%3A+Thieves+swipe+5+tons+of+chocolate+spread%22  


Martin Vlietstra
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=from:%22Martin+Vl
ietstra%22  Sun, 14 Apr 2013 00:12:36 -0700
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=date:20130414  

In spite of that, Wikipedia does not follow that convention - see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_heaviest_bells and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_(instrument) .
 
 
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Carleton MacDonald
Sent: 13 April 2013 22:28
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52670] RE: Germany: Thieves swipe 5 tons of chocolate spread
 
 
 
For bell ringing, archaic units are still used to measure the mass of bells.
It comes from England hundreds of years ago when people could not understand
large numbers.  The bells are shown in hundredweight (112 lb), quarters (28
lb or two stone) and pounds.  Three numbers.  Our heaviest bell, 1629 kg, is
shown as 32-0-4 which is 3588 lb - but that was an impossibly large number
for most people to understand way back when, so three small numbers were
used instead.  Tradition is very hard to overcome, though occasionally in
The Ringing World, and in some individual church bell web sites, bell mass
is shown in kg.
 
 
 
We use stone, or, rather, stones, at the Washington National Cathedral, too.
It's what the Cathedral is made of.  Limestone blocks and carved pieces of
limestone for the decorative parts. 
 
 
 
Carleton

[USMA:52670] RE: Germany: Thieves swipe 5 tons of chocolate spread

[Carleton MacDonald]

For bell ringing, archaic units are still used to measure the mass of bells.
It comes from England hundreds of years ago when people could not understand
large numbers.  The bells are shown in hundredweight (112 lb), quarters (28
lb or two stone) and pounds.  Three numbers.  Our heaviest bell, 1629 kg, is
shown as 32-0-4 which is 3588 lb - but that was an impossibly large number
for most people to understand way back when, so three small numbers were
used instead.  Tradition is very hard to overcome, though occasionally in
The Ringing World, and in some individual church bell web sites, bell mass
is shown in kg.

 

We use stone, or, rather, stones, at the Washington National Cathedral, too.
It's what the Cathedral is made of.  Limestone blocks and carved pieces of
limestone for the decorative parts. 

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Henschel Mark
Sent: Monday, April 08, 2013 22:08
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52649] RE: Germany: Thieves swipe 5 tons of chocolate spread

 

I remember standing on a scale in England and being told I am 16 stone. I
think I have gained a few kilograms since then, however.
I remember something about an ounce of feathers being heavier than an ounce
of gold, but just the opposite for pounds or perhaps tons. Maybe it is a
pound of gold heavier than a pound of feathers and an ounce of feathers
being heavier than an ounce of gold.
 
I also remember the hundred weight not equalling a hundred pounds. Wierd.
Also when we get to land measure. An acre being four rods by 40 rods, what
sense does that make?
Mark

- Original Message -
From: John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net
mailto:jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net 
Date: Monday, April 8, 2013 5:28 pm
Subject: [USMA:52641] RE: Germany: Thieves swipe 5 tons of chocolate spread
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 

 

Since we don't believe in stones, we consider a 100 lb hundredweight FAR
more logical than a 112 lb hundredweight (which sounds like a trick
question).  That leads to a 2000 lb ton in the US. :)
 

 


 
 


 

  _  


 From: Martin Vlietstra vliets...@btinternet.com
mailto:vliets...@btinternet.com 
 To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 
 Sent: Mon, April 8, 2013 5:48:41 PM
 Subject: [USMA:52636] RE: Germany: Thieves swipe 5 tons of chocolate
spread
 
 
 
 
 


 

But they got their conversion wrong - 1 tonne is 2209 lbs and an ordinary
ton is 2240 lbs (at least that is what I was taught in school in South
Africa), or is something different in the United States?   ;-) 


 

 


 

Martin Vlietstra


 

 


 
 


 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of John M. Steele
 Sent: 08 April 2013 16:25
 To: U.S. Metric Association
 Subject: [USMA:52629] Germany: Thieves swipe 5 tons of chocolate spread




 

 


 
 
 

Amazingly, it is an AP article and they are metric tons.



 
 

http://news.yahoo.com/germany-thieves-swipe-5-tons-chocolate-spread-10331613
7.html



 
 

BERLIN (AP) - These thieves might really have sticky fingers.


 

Police said Monday an unknown number of culprits made off with 5 metric tons
(5.5 tons) of Nutella chocolate-hazelnut spread from a parked trailer in the
central German town of Bad Hersfeld over the weekend.

[USMA:52658] Re: Daltons

[Carleton MacDonald]

I guess this is why Europeans crossed their 7s, because when they wrote their 
1s, they looked like uncrossed 7s.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
John M. Steele
Sent: Tuesday, April 09, 2013 13:13
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52657] Re: Daltons

 

Several fonts have barely noticable differences between Capital I, lower case l 
and numeric 1. particularly in small font sizes.  Is there an argument for 
being emotionally attached to l?  I know decimal vs comma, and meter vs metre 
will never get resolved, but I had high hopes for l vs L and dalton vs uamu.

 

  _  

From: Martin Vlietstra vliets...@btinternet.com 
mailto:vliets...@btinternet.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tue, April 9, 2013 9:41:14 AM
Subject: [USMA:52656] Re: Daltons

The Dalton/amu argument will probably surface after the 2014 CGPM congress 
(where the redefinition of the kilogram, ampere, kelvin and mole will be 
discussed – see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_SI_definitions  ).   Any 
dropping of the “l” in favour of “L” for the litre is likely to meet resistance 
in Europe – it is only the Anglo-Saxons who have a problem with “l” to 
represent the litre and that is because we do not have a stroke on the number 
“1” when we handwrite it.

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu  
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of John M. Steele
Sent: 09 April 2013 10:35
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52655] Re: Daltons

 

I don't believe the dalton replaced the unified atomic mass unit (symbol u).  
The SI Brochure describes them as alternate names (and symbols) for the same 
unit.  Actually I only looked in NIST SP330, where the dalton is listed first.  
That may signify it is preferred but the text does NOT explicitly say so.  The 
situation is analogous to two symbols for the liter. Unified atomic mass unit 
is quite a mouthful.  I always use dalton and I don't see why the unified 
atomic mass unit can't be deprecated in favor of the dalton.  Of course, I 
don't see why l can't be deprecated in favor of L, either.

 

The unit is important in chemistry as the amu is approximately the number of 
proton and neutrons in the nucleus, and the connection between the gram and 
mole (although the BIPM manages to define the mole without ever mentioning it 
or Avogadro's number).  Binding energy and the averaging over naturally 
occuring isotopes gives rise to non-integer values.

 

  _  

From: Paul Trusten trus...@grandecom.net mailto:trus...@grandecom.net 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu 
Cc: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tue, April 9, 2013 12:35:05 AM
Subject: [USMA:52652] Re: Daltons

It takes a long time to achieve de facto deprecation of a unit. If the amu was 
replaced by the dalton in 1961, no one reached the authors of my first science 
textbooks or teachers with the news (1965). In fact, I never heard of the 
dalton until the mid-seventies,  so we shall probably continue struggling with 
that old name for Celsius for a while to come, too, even 65 years after its 
deprecation. 

Paul Trusten, Reg. Pharmacist
Vice President
U.S. Metric Association, Inc.
Midland, Texas USA
www.metric.org http://www.metric.org/  
+1(432)528-7724
trus...@grandecom.net mailto:trus...@grandecom.net 


On Apr 8, 2013, at 20:29, Michael Payne metricmik...@gmail.com 
mailto:metricmik...@gmail.com  wrote:

 Interesting Unit at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Insulin-like_growth_factor_1 
 
 forth paragraph down:
 
 IGF-1 consists of 70 amino acids in a single chain with three intramolecular 
 disulfide bridges. IGF-1 has a molecular weight of 7,649 daltons. 
 
 There is another page on Daltons 
 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dalton_%28unit%29  A unit accepted for use with 
 SI, seems with the prefixes we have, some sub unit of a gram would have been 
 equally good. Or is this something like the Astronomical unit on the other 
 end of the scale?
 
 Michael Payne
 
 

[USMA:52592] RE: DMV was Date Format

[Carleton MacDonald]

Section 204 of the Metric Act of 1866 could also be put to use with the DMV
(or anywhere else, for that matter): -

It shall be lawful throughout the United States of America to employ the
weights and measures of the metric system; and no contract or dealing, or
pleading in any court, shall be deemed invalid or liable to objection
because the weights or measures expressed or referred to therein are weights
or measures of the metric system.

If that is taken literally your doctor, the DMV, and everyone else have to
accept metric units if you give these to them.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Pierre Abbat
Sent: Wednesday, April 03, 2013 22:45
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52591] DMV was Date Format

On Thursday, March 28, 2013 21:05:01 Stanislav Jakuba wrote:
 No, I never did. I mean, I do not want to irritate or confuse those 
 kind of people. They have their orders. But I do use that Y-M-D 
 everywhere unless there is a specific order outlined. I used the Y-M-D 
 even in my passport renewal application and ended up born in 
 Connecticut (instead of Czechoslovakia). But the date was rewritten 
 okay. You see my point about confusing them?.

How did they get Connecticut out of Czechoslovakia?

I went to the DMV today and asked them to correct my height (which has
changed a bit in the past ten or twenty years). I measured it a few days ago
as 1.515 m. The examiner didn't know what I was saying and I told her that,
if they can't accept a height in meters, they're at least 35 years out of
date.

I'm going to write to the DMV. I know some points to make:
*The metric system is preferred, by Federal law.
*All cars today are built in metric.
*7.3% of the population of North Carolina, and 12.8% of that of Mecklenburg
County, are foreign born; most of those grew up metric.
What are some others?

I know Paul Trusten has written about using only metric units to express a
patient's mass. What about a patient's height?

The Spanish version of the driver's handbook has distances, but not speeds
or vehicle weights, with metric equivalents.

Pierre
--
La sal en el mar es más que en la sangre.
Le sel dans la mer est plus que dans le sang.

[USMA:52538] Re: Coast Survey Publishes New International Chart for Navigation Between Florida and Cuba

[Carleton MacDonald]

You must have an iPad.  Steve Jobs had a vendetta against Flash and would never 
allow it on his products.

Same thing with Silverlight.  There's a web site I go to 
(www.nationalcathedral.org) that uses Silverlight for its video products and I 
can't see those on my iPhone either.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
a-bruie...@lycos.com 
Sent: Thursday, March 21, 2013 14:22
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52537] Re: Coast Survey Publishes New International Chart for 
Navigation Between Florida and Cuba

Oh fudidly, the chart  is in flash, tablets no longer support flash...



Bruce E. Arkwright, Jr
Erie PA
Linux and Metric User and Enforcer


I will only invest in nukes that are 150 gigameters away. How much solar energy 
have you collected today?
Id put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we 
dont have to wait til oil and coal run out before we tackle that. I wish I had 
a few more years left. -- Thomas Edison♽☯♑


Mar 20, 2013 07:38:46 PM, jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net wrote:
NOAA has published a metric chart for the area around the south and west 
Florida coast.
http://www.maritime-executive.com/article/Coast-Survey-Publishes-New-International-Chart-for-Navigation-Between-Florida-and-Cuba--2013-03-20/
 ;
If you click on the chart numbers, you will open a viewer pane.  A cartoon of 
the whole chart appears on the left with a draggable navigation box, and the 
right pane lets you zoom in and see the detail of a small area of chart.
 ;
The primary difference between the metric version and the Customary:
*Depth scale
*Loran lines (does anyone still use Loran with GPS?) On the metric chart, the 
depth is in meters.  The small number similar to a subscript is tenths, ie 
decimeters.  Blue water is less than 20 m, white water is 20 m.  Outside the 
20 m line, the resolution seems to be 0.5 m
 ;
On the Customary chart, depth is in fathoms, blue water is
 ;
Bays and inshore areas are void of detail as you should switch to a higher 
detail coastal or inlet chart.  Distances are not really marked, lat/long is 
used instead.  Any measured length (with dividers) can be laid against the 
latitude scale, 1 minute of latitude = 1 nautical mile (approx).  The chart is 
Mercator, so the scale changes (slightly) over the vertical extent of the 
chart.  Measure any distance centered on the latitude scale near the midpoint 
of your run.
(Note: 54 minutes of latitude is approx 100 km, or 1 degree is 111 km.  These 
guidelines are based on equator to pole being 5400 nautical miles or 1 km.  
Both are approximations as the earth is an ellipsoid and not quite that size, 
but are standard in Mercator navigation.)

[USMA:52471] Re: Use of the Word Metric

[Carleton MacDonald]

Two particular annoyances:

An impact is what happens when one thing strikes another.  It has now been
verbed and is the new trendy business buzzword for affect.

Leverage is a financial term involving using borrowed money for a purpose.
It too has become THE new trendy word as both a noun and, unspeakably, a
verb.  

I edit documents at work and have a rather notorious reputation at editing
out both words whenever I see them used inappropriately.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of c...@traditio.com
Sent: Thursday, March 07, 2013 14:56
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52464] Re: Use of the Word Metric

Re: [USMA:52457] Reuse of Word

An interesting point.  The venerable Webster's Unabridged Second Edition,
which is still used by careful writers, does not list metric as a noun. 
The Third Edition does, so the word gained recognition after 1960. 
Accurate writers now use SI Metric to designate the Modern Metric System.

The usage that really bugs me is the run-away usage of vouns, that is,
verbs used as nouns.  We are commonly hearing now, except from the most
careful broadcasters, the sequester instead of the sequestration.  We
have long heard in recent decades about doing an install instead of an
installation.  This confusing peculiarity of English works the other way
too.  For example, some would mustard their hot dog, using the noun as a
verb.

[USMA:52451] RE: TSA Changes the Rules

[Carleton MacDonald]

The international standards for liquids is 100 mL, and all put in a 1 L bag.
However, for American consumption, TSA dumbed that down to 3 oz and 1 qt.
(US ounces and quarts, of course.)

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of John M. Steele
Sent: Wednesday, March 06, 2013 10:23
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52450] TSA Changes the Rules

 

TSA is changing rules in April to allow small pocket knives and some sports
equipment as allowable carry-on items.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/03/05/travel/tsa-carry-on-changes/index.html

 

The article has some nice graphics from TSA to cover what is and isn't
legal; the graphic for knives even includes a dual unit ruler.  But
dimensions reflect an odd mix of units.  Pocket knifes must have a folding
blade less than 6 cm (2.36) long and less than ½ wide.  That units mix
could ONLY make sense to a US bureaucrat.  Many full-size sports equipment
items are allowed, but baseball bats must be less than 24 and 24 oz (no
metric equivalent offered), therefore toy bats.

 

I guess the real question is why did they choose metric for only one
dimension.  Does anyone know the international rules they claim to be
aligning with?  How are visitors not familiar with US Customary supposed
to figure out what they are talking about?  Given that international
visitors are also subject to these rules, shouldn't TSA ALWAYS use SI units.
To me, the only debate is whether they need parenthetical Customary units in
addition. (I vote no because SI is preferred, but I'm flexible.)

[USMA:52443] RE: Ford to sell cars and pickup trucks in Myanmar - Cars - Boston.com

[Carleton MacDonald]

Myanmar? Where's that?  . Oh, right, Burma.

 

When a freely elected government changes the name of the country then I'll
go along.

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Monday, March 04, 2013 22:49
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: Ford to sell cars and pickup trucks in Myanmar - Cars - Boston.com

 

We all know Ford's cars are made in the metric system, but when Ford sells
trucks to Myanmar, what units will appear on the instrument cluster?  Will
Ford have metric only as that is what other vehicles have on their
instruments or will Ford figure that since Myanmar is one of the uncommitted
three that it will give them miles?

 

http://www.boston.com/cars/news-and-reviews/2013/02/28/ford-sell-cars-and-pi
ckup-trucks-myanmar/2kTx2POhpi4rnY2a9V9YmK/story.html

 

If I'm not mistaken, Myanmar drives on the right and no American car company
produces right and drive cars in the US for the export market.  But I would
assume Ford Australia must produce right hand vehicles and maybe it the cars
will come in from Australia. 

 

Funny how the American press wants you believe the cars will come from the
US, otherwise why would they care if Ford sells cars in Myanmar if they are
produced somewhere else?

[USMA:52423] Re: Metric only 2 m folding ruler available at REI

[Carleton MacDonald]

I bought this at Sears here in Gaithersburg, Maryland a few years ago.  Last
time I was there (two weeks ago) they still had it on the shelf.

 

http://www.sears.com/stanley-8m-26'-x-1-in-metric-english-tape-rule/p-009727
88000P?prdNo=4
http://www.sears.com/stanley-8m-26'-x-1-in-metric-english-tape-rule/p-00972
788000P?prdNo=4blockNo=4blockType=G4 blockNo=4blockType=G4

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Saturday, March 02, 2013 08:09
To: jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net; U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52422] Re: Metric only 2 m folding ruler available at REI

 

Is it possible the one in the picture is metric only, but the one they sell
is dual?  

 

This brings an interesting question that I have yet to find a reason for.

 

Basically as far as I have seen, countries in Asia and South America have
only dual scales available to them.  Metric or inch only doesn't seem to
exist in these areas.  If the whole idea for a dual scale is so that the
same tape can be sold to the whole world, then why does the US still have
inch only and Europe have metric only tapes?

 

I would prefer metric only, but would settle for dual if metric only was not
available.  I have yet to find a dual tape in a US shop for sale.  Why must
much of the world be forced to be exposed to a scale they don't use if
Americans aren't equally being forced to be exposed to scale they don't use?

 

One advantage to the dual scale, especially in the world is that every user
has proof at their fingertips as to how unfriendly inches are.  If the
appearance of inches on tapes sold in metric countries was meant to promote
USC, it has failed.  It has had the effect of turning people off to USC as
the metric scale is obviously much more user friendly.

 

 

 


[USMA:52422] Re: Metric only 2 m folding ruler available at REI
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=subject:%22%5BUSM
A%3A52422%5D+Re%3A+Metric+only+2+m+folding+ruler+available+at+REI%22  


John M. Steele
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=from:%22John+M.+S
teele%22  Sat, 02 Mar 2013 02:54:35 -0800
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=date:20130302  

Yet it is described purely in Customary units.  I don't quite see how it
folds 
down to 4.6 when the picture clearly shows it to be about 23 cm long.
 
 

From: Scott Hudnall usmetric...@gmail.com mailto:usmetric...@gmail.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu

Sent: Fri, March 1, 2013 11:01:28 PM
Subject: [USMA:52421] Metric only 2 m folding ruler available at REI
 
I found this folding ruler at REI this evening. It is a 2 m folding 
carpenter-style ruler, only made of fiberglass instead of wood. It is
available 
on their website, as well as in stores (ski/snowboarding/snowshoeing area
with 
the avalanche gear).
 
http://www.rei.com/product/807497/backcountry-access-2-meter-fiberglass-rule
r

[USMA:52420] RE: Metric Containers

[Carleton MacDonald]

A few years ago I went to the Container Store to buy some cereal containers.  
They were made in Australia.  I bought six 5-liter and three 3-liter containers.

http://www.containerstore.com/shop/kitchen/foodStorage/specialty?productId=1638N=74066Nao=20


Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
a-bruie...@lycos.com 
Sent: Friday, March 01, 2013 13:54
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52419] Metric Containers

Found some food storage products... 
http://www.bedbathandbeyond.com/product.asp?SKU=116075RN=204;


Bruce E. Arkwright, Jr
Erie PA
Linux and Metric User and Enforcer


I will only invest in nukes that are 150 gigameters away. How much solar energy 
have you collected today?
Id put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we 
dont have to wait til oil and coal run out before we tackle that. I wish I had 
a few more years left. -- Thomas Edison♽☯♑

[USMA:52393] Re: Pickup truck dashboard

[Carleton MacDonald]

On my car, a 2002 Saab 9-5 wagon, the data display can be switched between US, 
UK1, UK2, or metric.  In metric temperature is Celsius and all calculations are 
in km.

The odometer is digital and in miles.  This can be changed by the dealer by 
plugging some gizmo into the OBD2 port and reprogramming the car's central 
computer.  I suspect that's the case with your Subaru, too; the dealer just 
doesn't want to do it, or let you know it can be done.

The headlights are on all the time.  I can have them off during the day by 
opening up the fuse panel and removing fuse 35.  In Canada you are not allowed 
to remove fuse 35.  If the fuse is removed then they go on and off with the 
headlight switch.  In my car if I turn the key off the headlights and 
taillights go off regardless of the position of the light switch, so I just 
leave it on all the time to make sure I don't forget to turn on the taillights 
at night.

The speedometer is analog.  Miles are in the outside, large, lit in green.  
Kilometers are in the inside, smaller, lit in orange, and still visible at 
night, unlike with many American cars.

When Saab was making cars, they made one version for North America, designed to 
meet the most stringent requirements of both Canada and any US state.  It was 
easier for the manufacturing process.  The only difference between the two 
markets was the speedometer.

One annoying thing, though - my 1999 9-5 had the car's mass figures in kg; the 
2002, in lb, no doubt reflecting a stronger GM influence.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
j...@frewston.plus.com
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 10:50
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52392] Re: Pickup truck dashboard

I've just rented a car in Canada, Toyota Matrix. As with virtually all Asian 
and North American cars in Canada, speedometer was dual marked (metric 
primary), although this is not mandatory. Odometer in km, etc. Same with my 
daughter's Kia SUV, my son's Chevy Cobalt, and my daughter-in-law's Subaru - 
speedometer dual, odometer in km, temp display in °C. European cars however are 
almost certainly metric only (BMW, Merc, Mini, Audi, Volvo, not sure about the 
Fiat 500).

The UK requires dual marked speedometers (mph primary, km/h secondary), 
odometer in miles. Everything else in metric.

In Canada, DRLs are mandatory as with Sweden, which is why they cannot be 
switched off. On this last visit, I saw probably about 2 or 3 cars in each
100 that had their DRLs not working (discounting cars on US plates).

John F-L

-Original Message-
From: Scott Hudnall
Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 3:18 PM
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52391] Re: Pickup truck dashboard

A few years ago, I rented a car in Canada. The dashboard was in metric-only 
(speedometer in km/h only, odometer in km only, thermometer in ℃ only). I think 
the US is the only major car market that requires dual-labelled dashboards.

On my personal car, I tried to get the get my Subaru dealer to at least switch 
my thermometer to ℃, but that option is not available on US models. 
With Subaru, you either get the US defaults, or international defaults.


On Feb 26, 2013, at 04:42 , Martin Vlietstra wrote:

 A few years ago I rented a car in Sweden and the DTRs were always on - a
 requirement of Swedish Law.

 -Original Message-
 From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
 Of j...@frewston.plus.com
 Sent: 26 February 2013 10:04
 To: U.S. Metric Association
 Subject: [USMA:52389] Re: Fw: Pickup truck dashboard

 The DTRs are always on, and cannot be switched off. I don't think they are
 connected with the dash - the circuitry is built in to the main lighting
 wiring.

 John F-L

 -Original Message-
 From: Pierre Abbat
 Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 9:34 AM
 To: U.S. Metric Association
 Subject: [USMA:52388] Re: Fw: Pickup truck dashboard

 On Tuesday, February 26, 2013 09:10:11 j...@frewston.plus.com wrote:
 -Original Message-
 From: j...@frewston.plus.com
 Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2013 9:07 AM
 To: p...@bezitopo.org
 Subject: Re: [USMA:52385] Pickup truck dashboard

 Assuming you are in the US and looking for a US-spec model, try seeing
 if you can get a Canadian-spec dash. Speedometer will then be km/h
 predominant (with mph as a secondary scale, which should comply with
 US laws), and the other instruments (e.g. outside temperature readout)
 will also be metric.

 if you are buying new, you may be able to get a Canadian spec model
 direct (which will then include daytime running lights, but will
 otherwise be almost identical to the US version, although often
 certain specific versions of a model may be available in Canada and
 not the US, and vice versa). If buying used, you might see if you can
 buy Canadian parts and retrofit them.

 I'm in North Carolina, which is 

[USMA:52379] RE: $1.00/L

[Carleton MacDonald]

£1.35 is about $2.06 right now.  They’re paying about twice what we do.

 

On the other hand, they have a system where no one has to pay to go to the
doctor or the hospital.

 

Fair trade.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Henschel Mark
Sent: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 18:03
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52378] RE: $1.00/L

 

Yup, and the higher value of the British pound makes the differential even
worse.
 
Mark Henschel

- Original Message -
From: Martin Vlietstra vliets...@btinternet.com
mailto:vliets...@btinternet.com 
Date: Wednesday, February 20, 2013 10:34 am
Subject: [USMA:52377] RE: $1.00/L
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu
mailto:usma@colostate.edu 

 
 

You guys have a bargain.  In the UK we are paying £1.35 per litre! 

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of Paul Trusten
 Sent: 20 February 2013 12:38
 To: U.S. Metric Association
 Subject: [USMA:52376] $1.00/L

 

 

Mr. Patrick DeHaan, Senior Petroleum Analyst
 Texas Gas Prices

 

 

 

Mr. DeHaan,

 

 

 

U.S. changeover to the metric system of measurement right now would soothe
the sore eyes of motorists purchasing gasoline. A national average price of
$3.79 per gallon translates into $1.00 per liter. 

 

 

 

Paul Trusten
 Vice President and Public Relations Director
 U.S. Metric Association, Inc.
 Midland, Texas
 www.metric.org http://www.metric.org 
 trus...@grandecom.net mailto:trus...@grandecom.net 

 

[USMA:52359] RE: Metric Coverage of Asteroid 2012-DA-14

[Carleton MacDonald]

And here's the AP story, with its usual muddle of units, including the
stupid kph and the refusal to use symbols.

 

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/15/meteorite-streaks-across-russian-ur
als_n_2691904.html?utm_source=DailyBrief
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/02/15/meteorite-streaks-across-russian-u
rals_n_2691904.html?utm_source=DailyBriefutm_campaign=021513utm_medium=ema
ilutm_content=FeatureTitleutm_term=Daily%20Brief
utm_campaign=021513utm_medium=emailutm_content=FeatureTitleutm_term=Dail
y%20Brief

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of derryod...@yahoo.com
Sent: Friday, February 15, 2013 13:51
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52358] RE: Metric Coverage of Asteroid 2012-DA-14

 


Unfortunately it's going to take quite a bit of effort to get media to use
only metric. All the letters I've written to media groups go ignored. So I'm
at a bit of a loss. But Bill Nye, from what I understand, tends to use only
SI for the most part. 


Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone

 

  _  

From: c...@traditio.com mailto:c...@traditio.com  c...@traditio.com
mailto:c...@traditio.com ; 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu
; 
Subject: [USMA:52357] Metric Coverage of Asteroid 2012-DA-14 
Sent: Fri, Feb 15, 2013 6:00:21 PM 


I watched some coverage of the close-approaching asteroid 2012-DA-14 on CNN.
For a news service that is supposed to be international, it contained a
confusing congeries of inch-pound and metric units.  For example:

Distance:  17,100 miles (CNN commentator)
Distance:  150 feet (CNN crawl)
Mass:  150,000 metric tons (CNN crawl)
Area:  20,000 square kilometres (Bill Nye)

It was refreshing to hear Bill Nye The Science Guy, who has extensive
programs and educational outreaches to students and the public, to use only
metric units.  I sent him the following message:


Date: Fri, 15 Feb 2013 09:54:45
From: Martin Morrison
To: Bill Nye/Science Guy b...@billnye.com javascript:return 
Subject: Thank You for Your Use of Metric Units

In watching CNN coverage today of the 2012-DA-14 asteroid, I noted that the
other commentators were using a confusing mix of inch-pound and metric
units.  You were the only one who consistently used the metric units that
are actually used in science and technology.  Thanks, Bill, for sticking to
your guns and educating the public to reality.

 

[USMA:52327] RE: FW: Political metric supporters?

[Carleton MacDonald]

Except John Kerry is no longer in the Senate, he is now the Secretary of
State.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of derryod...@yahoo.com
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 23:55
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52326] RE: FW: Political metric supporters?

 


That sounds like a good idea. If the US and EU were to become closer again
it could open the door for an opportunity to get the FPLA amended despite
the EU continuing to allow products to be shipped there with dual labels. If
I'm wrong on that, correct me. I'm not 100% about the labeling issue


Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone

 

  _  

From: JohnAltounji phy...@msn.com mailto:phy...@msn.com ; 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu
; 
Subject: [USMA:52325] FW: Political metric supporters? 
Sent: Tue, Feb 5, 2013 4:30:35 AM 


I heard that John Kerry is in favor of rapprochement between the US and
Europe.  He speaks French.  We might need to send him a collective letter
signed by members of USMA and other metric supporters.

 

John Altounji

One size does not fit all.
Social promotion ruined Education.

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu
[mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of derryod...@yahoo.com
mailto:derryod...@yahoo.com 
Sent: Monday, February 04, 2013 6:49 PM
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52324] Political metric supporters?

 


Hey everyone. I'm currently starting to compile a list of people in congress
who might be in favor of metric conversion. Has anyone found somebody I
could put on the list? My goal is to get a list written down and contact
each person who supports metrication. 


Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone

 

 

[USMA:52306] Re: The Metric System, the United States of America, and Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed

[Carleton MacDonald]

In my case, I have a digital scale.  The switch on the back is set to “kg”,
so when I step on it, the display is in kg.

 

The last time I was at the doctor, they had new scales that could be set to
either lb or kg, and a height measuring device that had both in and cm
scales.  The doctors are “old school” and put your weight into their
computer in lb.  (The computer then converts it.)  So that’s how I know my
height.  My height does not vary significantly, and the accuracy cannot be
determined to millimeter precision.

 

I have not converted either measure in many years.

 

With regard to spelling, sorry, both are right.  In the USA it’s meter,
theater, center.  In Canada and the UK it’s metre, theatre, centre.  It’s a
regionalism, NOT an error.  “Milliard” is also a confusion as there is a
logical progression with million, billion, trillion, quadrillion.  To me,
“milliard” is like saying “millimeter, centimeter, decimeter, meter” rather
than “millimeter, meter”.

 

What is wrong is not using “meter” for “metre”.  What IS wrong is using
“inch”, “foot”, “yard”, “mile”, etc., instead of “meter” or “metre” or
whatever.

 

Carleton

 

 

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 23:48
To: jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net; U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52303] Re: The Metric System, the United States of America,
and Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed

 

I was curious, so I posted a comment asking if the height and weight given
came about by measurement or conversion.  Here is what I said:

You said: “Here’s a quick quiz: I weigh 71 kilograms, and am about 1.82
meters tall.”

How did you come about those values? By actual measurement or conversion? If
by conversion, tray an actual measurement in metric and report it back here.
It would be interesting to see if there is a difference as the USC
measurement could be in error due to bias, over rounding or guesswork.
Conversions could also introduce some errors for the same reason.

Another point, it is not necessary to spell out the words when using SI,
simply use the standardized symbols. Thus you will have a mass of 71 kg and
a height of 1.82 m or 182 cm. By using symbols, you avoid using the
incorrect spelling for metre. Metre is a unit and meter is a device to
measure with.

It just seemed that a height of 1.82 m was just a conversion of 6 ft and a
height of exactly 6 ft may be biased as an easy number to remember.  I would
be curious to know what results he gets my actually measuring in metric
instead of just converting.

 


[USMA:52303] Re: The Metric System, the United States of America, and
Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=subject:%22%5BUSM
A%3A52303%5D+Re%3A+The+Metric+System%2C+the+United+States+of+America%2C+and+
Scientific+Literacy+%7C+Sci-Ed%22  


John M. Steele
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=from:%22John+M.+S
teele%22  Sat, 02 Feb 2013 15:32:39 -0800
http://www.mail-archive.com/search?l=usma@colostate.eduq=date:20130202  

I agree either 182 cm or 1.82 m is equally valid.  The 1.82 m form has the 
advantage that it is directly usable in BMI calculation:
71 kg/(1.82 m)² = 21.4 kg/m² (he's pretty skinny).
Some would argue centimeters should be discouraged (I don't particularly 
agree).  For a human height, I would prefer either to 1820 mm, but I would
use 
1820 (without units) on an engineering drawing.

[USMA:52305] Re: The Metric System, the United States of America, and Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed

[Carleton MacDonald]

Using cm for body height can make sense, as it is not possible to measure human 
height to millimeter precision, unlike a piece of machinery.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
John M. Steele
Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 18:31
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52303] Re: The Metric System, the United States of America, and 
Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed

 

I agree either 182 cm or 1.82 m is equally valid.  The 1.82 m form has the 
advantage that it is directly usable in BMI calculation:

71 kg/(1.82 m)² = 21.4 kg/m² (he's pretty skinny).

 

Some would argue centimeters should be discouraged (I don't particularly 
agree).  For a human height, I would prefer either to 1820 mm, but I would use 
1820 (without units) on an engineering drawing.

 

  _  

From: j...@frewston.plus.com mailto:j...@frewston.plus.com  
j...@frewston.plus.com mailto:j...@frewston.plus.com 
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu mailto:usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Sat, February 2, 2013 6:06:29 PM
Subject: [USMA:52302] Re: The Metric System, the United States of America, and 
Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed

With no link to the article, I cannot determine in what context the opening 
statement was made. But saying either 1.82 m or 182 cm is equally valid. In 
both cases, it can be verbally expressed as ‘one-eighty-two’. I don’t see a 
problem.

 

John F-L

 

From: cont...@metricpioneer.com mailto:cont...@metricpioneer.com  

Sent: Saturday, February 02, 2013 10:55 PM

To: U.S. Metric Association mailto:usma@colostate.edu  

Subject: [USMA:52301] Re: The Metric System, the United States of America, and 
Scientific Literacy | Sci-Ed

 

The article starts off with: Here’s a quick quiz: I weigh 71 kilograms, and am 
about 1.82 meters tall 

I think the common way of measuring human height is, for example, 182 cm, but 
not as the example given in the article. I think the person writing the article 
should have done a little more research before getting off on the wrong foot. 
David Pearl MetricPioneer.com 503-428-4917

 Very timely and the writer works at the Smithsonian! Great comics

 http://blogs.plos.org/scied/2013/01/28/the-metric-system-united-states-of-america-and-scientific-literacy/


 Sent from my iPad



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[USMA:52295] Re: Metric Home

[Carleton MacDonald]

Doesn't Australia use 400 mm on center for the studs, and don't they use 1200 
mm x 2400 mm sheets of plywood and plasterboard?  Everything fits nicely with 
each other.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
j...@frewston.plus.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 15:18
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52290] Re: Metric Home

Back in the late 1970s, when I was living in Canada, I worked for a home 
builder who tried to do just this (in fact I was part of the conversion 
program).

It failed of course, simply because (a) the Canadian building code for 
residential was highly prescriptive, and didn't allow for such variations as 
stud spacing, thickness, etc, and changing to a performance code, was (at the 
time) a step too far; and (b) virtually all of the Canadian manufacturers were 
highly geared to the American market, and weren't prepared to manufacture what 
for them were relatively small quantities of 'oddball' sizes (rational metric 
though they may have been).

The idea is great - but are you ever going to be able to make a whole industry 
switch en masse?

Great if you can, but I am not holding my breath.

John F-L

-Original Message-
From: a-bruie...@lycos.com
Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2013 7:16 PM
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52288] Metric Home

Here is my version of how a Metric House would look like
http://www.instructables.com/id/How-to-Make-a-Metric-House/

Bruce E. Arkwright, Jr
Erie PA
Linux and Metric User and Enforcer


I will only invest in nukes that are 150 gigameters away. How much solar energy 
have you collected today?
Id put my money on the sun and solar energy. What a source of power! I hope we 
dont have to wait til oil and coal run out before we tackle that. I wish I had 
a few more years left. -- Thomas Edison♽☯♑



-
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Version: 2013.0.2890 / Virus Database: 2639/6049 - Release Date: 01/21/13 
Internal Virus Database is out of date. 

[USMA:52251] RE: Oddball measurement

[Carleton MacDonald]

Sounds like something that started out as 400 mL, got converted to Ye Olde
English Units, then back-converted from that to metric.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Harry Wyeth
Sent: Wednesday, January 23, 2013 21:58
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52249] Oddball measurement

 

Just for laughs, here is today's oddball measurement:

Thai Kitchen Lite Coconut Milk, net 13.66 FL.OZ. 403 mL.  Not 400?  Comes
in a standard size soup can, filled to the brim.

HARRY WYETH

[USMA:52167] Re: Mendenhalling a pint of beer

[Carleton MacDonald]

Or just undefining the pint entirely, and allowing pint to be colloquial
for 500 ml in the same way that pound, pfund, etc., is understood to be
shorthand for 500 g, or quarter, as my friend Barbara calls it, is
understood to mean 125 g.

 

A law could be passed that specifies that if you ask for a pint in a pub,
you will get at least 568 ml.  That would work as pint would no longer
have a formal definition.  For milk, just sell it in 500 ml, 1 l, etc.
bottles.  The law could also say for milk that since 500 ml is less than the
former pint (568 ml), the price for a 500 ml bottle will be 12% lower (568
x 0.88 = about 500) than the price of a pint (to start with, that is, the
price at the time of discontinuing the pint bottle), in order; this will
keep the BWMA from having a fit (or, at least no more of a fit than they
will have anyway).

 

Carleton

 

 

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Remek Kocz
Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2013 11:19
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52166] Re: Mendenhalling a pint of beer

 

How about just redefining the British pint as 600 mL?  

[USMA:52147] Re: U.S. and UK metrication

[Carleton MacDonald]

My wife and I were in Portsmouth in 2005.  Susan tripped over a curb and fell 
down, badly cutting her face.  First aid didn’t work so our friend Claire took 
us to Queen Alexandra Hospital’s AE (accident and emergency) room.  The woman 
behind the counter came out with a clipboard when she saw Susan was in pain so 
Susan didn’t have to stand at the window.  Twenty minutes later we were taken 
back to the clinic where a doctor cleaned her wounds, used surgical glue to 
patch things up, put some plasters (UK for bandages) on them, gave us some 
brochures on wound care, and sent us on our way.  “Where do I pay you?” I 
asked.  “Pay?” was the response.  Their feeling was that the value added tax 
I’d pay when buying things during our three weeks there would cover it.  I 
walked away saying, “I think this is how it’s supposed to work.”

 

I have teabagger friends whose opposition to the Patient Protection and 
Affordable Care Act, which they call Obamacare, is that the “gummint” is 
“forcing” them to buy insurance.  Yeah, so they don’t become freeloaders when 
they get hurt or sick and can’t pay, and the hospital builds their 
uncompensated care into their cost structure for the rest of us.  (I thought 
paying your own way was a tea party virtue.)  

 

To get back on topic, we went to Stonehenge the next day, and got on a 
motorway.  A sign came up for the next exit and indicated that it was 1 m away. 
 I didn’t see the need for an sign that was only one meter from the actual exit 
since certainly by then one would see the exit.

 

The UK needs to get off its duff and finish the roads.  Then all that’s left is 
beer and milk and that is, as my next door neighbor lawyer friend would say, de 
minimus.

 

Carleton 

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Martin Vlietstra
Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 14:32
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52146] Re: U.S. and UK metrication

 

I believe that one of the other things that keeps costs down in Europe is the 
way in which negligence is handled – lawyers make far less out of the system.

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
j...@frewston.plus.com
Sent: 11 January 2013 08:27
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52145] Re: U.S. and UK metrication

 

Indeed. While the UK NHS is not perfect, it IS very good, having had to use it 
myself lately – and consumes under 9% of UK GDP, vs. America’s 14% of GDP using 
privately run providers (source MoneyWeek, a UK weekly financial magazine). One 
advantage of something like the NHS that keeps costs down is enormous buying 
power coupled with uniformity of standards (all metric of course!).

 

John F-L 

 

From: ezra.steinb...@comcast.net 

Sent: Friday, January 11, 2013 3:36 AM

To: U.S. Metric Association mailto:usma@colostate.edu  

Subject: [USMA:52139] Re: U.S. and UK metrication

 

Agreed, Martin. 

 

Conservatives in the USA do something similar when they rail against the idea 
of having a European-style socialist single-payer health care system rammed 
down our throats.   :-(

 

Ezra

  _  

From: Martin Vlietstra vliets...@btinternet.com
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu
Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2013 12:46:16 PM
Subject: [USMA:52137] Re: U.S. and UK metrication

All that the MP is concerned with is votes for himself.  The Eurosceptic  
movement has convinced the British public (at any rate the stupid part of the 
public) that metrication is something that is being forced on Britain by the 
EU.  Common sense does not enter the equation. 

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
John M. Steele
Sent: 10 January 2013 11:24
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52132] Re: U.S. and UK metrication

 

I wonder if the MP has ever considered fixing the daft rules on road signs and 
beer, vs the alternative of wasting teaching hours on obsolete units.

 

Imperial - only good for drinking and driving.  Nope, I don't think that will 
succeed as a tagline.

 

  _  

From: Paul Trusten trus...@grandecom.net
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu
Sent: Wed, January 9, 2013 1:33:21 PM
Subject: [USMA:52129] U.S. and UK metrication

 

Dear Mr. Percy,

 

Thank you very much for your quick reply to my letter and especially for 
addressing the concerns of a foreigner.  In the U.S., members of the House of 
Representatives and the Senate rightly refuse to receive email from anyone but 
one of their respective constituents, so I am honored by your expenditure of 
valuable time.  Yet, I can also see by your second email that I have pressed 
one of your hot buttons. I assure you it is also a hot button of mine, and has 
been for 38 years.

 

I also apologize for my bumbling email-ery. I had wanted to finish my letter to 
you, but if you keep reading my original message, you'll see it is incomplete.  
 

 

On that last point I surely agree, except to 

[USMA:52126] Re: FW: still viral

[Carleton MacDonald]

Most of the articles on wsj.com are behind a $30-a-month paywall.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Natalia Permiakova
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2013 10:10
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52123] Re: FW: still viral

 

power of media at work. amazing, how negative article with a link at the end 
creates surges of signatures against it.  i guess more people read msn news 
than wsj. 

 

Natalie

 

  _  

From: JohnAltounji phy...@msn.com
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
Sent: Tuesday, January 8, 2013 12:33 AM
Subject: [USMA:52120] FW: still viral

 

Let’s keep our fingers crossed.

I am mobilizing all my students for this petition.  Finally I see one growing 
more than 100.

 

Way to go.

 

John Altounji

One size does not fit all.
Social promotion ruined Education.

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Paul Trusten
Sent: Monday, January 07, 2013 9:11 PM
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52119] still viral

 

.http://1.usa.gov/ZPV17U. ..up over 18,000 now. I am not making this up.  Thank 
you, America...let's send Mr. Obama the message!

 

Paul Trusten, Reg. Pharmacist

Vice President

U.S. Metric Association, Inc.

Midland, Texas USA

www.metric.org http://www.metric.org/  

+1(432)528-7724

trus...@grandecom.net

 

 

[USMA:52081] RE: World's Largest Paper Snowflake

[Carleton MacDonald]

No doubt both journalists, loyally following the AP Stylebook, took what she
gave them and dumbed down the measurements for their readers.

 

Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Martin Vlietstra
Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2012 08:04
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52079] RE: World's Largest Paper Snowflake

 

http://www.iowan.com/read/rss_feed/?iowans_wonderland
http://www.iowan.com/read/rss_feed/?iowans_wonderlandshow=newsnewsID=1503
8 show=newsnewsID=15038 

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of John M. Steele
Sent: 19 December 2012 11:24
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52078] World's Largest Paper Snowflake

 


Apparently, the artist worked it all out in metric:

Hanson quipped that she fell in love with the metric system as working with
fractions would have been a nightmare.

 

Yet the reporter choses to tell us that Hanson created a 14-foot, 6-inch
paper snowflake in a little under 54 minutes in front of a cheering crowd at
the Kanawha City Hall.

 

http://globegazette.com/news/local/a-snowflake-for-the-record-books/article_
2ec0c7d6-4990-11e2-a34a-0019bb2963f4.html

 

Another article says Guinness would only consider paper snowflakes over 4 m,
but I can't find what they officially certified it as.

 

[USMA:52075] RE: Fw: Re: RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save money - NY Daily News

[Carleton MacDonald]

 for 2 digit input, I'm making a point).  I think it is obvious that the 
value is $56/lb and the metric mass has been slightly rounded, it is a 125 
grain coin.  The pound value is VERY close to an integer, and the kilogram 
value is decidedly non-integer.  (By similar analysis, dimes, quarters and 
halves are all $20/lb, and can be weighed mixed, while pennies and nickles are 
$4/kg and $10/kg respectively).

 


--- On Sat, 12/1/12, Carleton MacDonald carlet...@comcast.net 
http://us.mc1849.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carlet...@comcast.net  wrote:


From: Carleton MacDonald carlet...@comcast.net 
http://us.mc1849.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carlet...@comcast.net 
Subject: [USMA:52032] RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 
coins to save money - NY Daily News
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu 
http://us.mc1849.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=usma@colostate.edu 
Date: Saturday, December 1, 2012, 5:38 PM 

The only problem with the $2 bill is that it will still be used for small 
purchases, people won’t spend their coins as a result (see below for earlier 
comment on that), and they will still complain about the buildup of coin.  I 
think the smallest bill should be the $5, as it is in Canada, the UK and 
Europe.  (Or, make a $2 coin, as other countries have.)

 

This despite the fact that I think the back of the $2 bill is very attractive 
(the image of the signing of the Declaration of Independence). 

 

Carleton 

  

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net 
http://us.mc1849.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kilopas...@cox.net ] 
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 16:07
To: Carleton MacDonald; 'U.S. Metric Association'
Subject: Re: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to 
save money - NY Daily News

  

I think it has more to do with the paper lobby then anything else.  In the case 
of the paper union and the Crane  Company, there can be a compromise in that 
the government can agree to print more paper two dollar bills along with dollar 
coins.  

 

If you count the number of dollar bills in circulation and then compare it to 
the number of two dollar bills printed and one dollar coins already minted, 
what is the result?  

 

For Example:

 

There are 1.2 G$ of two dollar bills unused.

 

http://www.eaglenews.org/two-dollar-bill-myth-leaves-1-2-billion-dollars-unused-in-system-1.2632687#.ULpusO_ZXmc

 

Add this to the 2.4 G$ in dollar coins already minted but in storage and you 
have 3.6 G$ already that can be put into circulation.  But, the only way they 
will be used is if printing of the dollar bill ceases and a portion of the 
dollar bills already in circulation are removed.  This would create enough of a 
shortage, forcing the use of the two dollar bill and dollar coin.

 

It may take a few years to completely replace the one dollar bill with two 
dollar bills and dollar coins, but the first thing to do is get the ball 
rolling and put into use that which is in storage and costing the government 
money.

 

If it can be shown that people quickly can adopt to the change of currency, it 
can be proved that people can get use to the change in measurements. 

 

 

 

 

From: Carleton MacDonald 
http://us.mc1849.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carlet...@comcast.net  

Sent: Saturday, 2012-12-01 15:44

To: 'Kilopascal' 
http://us.mc1849.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kilopas...@cox.net  ; 'U.S. 
Metric Association' 
http://us.mc1849.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=usma@colostate.edu  

Subject: RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to 
save money - NY Daily News

 

In many countries the government agency that makes coin and paper notes is the 
same. 

  

In the USA it’s the United States Mint vs. the Bureau of Engraving and 
Printing.  Different employees, and probably different unions, each wanting to 
preserve its piece of the pie. 

  

Not to mention the lobbying power of the Crane  Company of Massachusetts, 
which makes the paper for all notes, and for which the $1 bill is a huge part 
of it. 

  

Carleton 

  

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net 
http://us.mc1849.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kilopas...@cox.net ] 
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 15:06
To: Carleton MacDonald; 'U.S. Metric Association'
Subject: Re: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to 
save money - NY Daily News

  

I hope the bill passes this time.  I too use dollar coins and two dollar bills. 
 I don't reject dollar bills if given to me in change as I take them home and 
save them up and return them to the bank to buy more coins and 2 dollar bills.  

 

Let's just hope the lobby that supports the coin can win against the lobby that 
supports paper.

 

 

 

From: Carleton MacDonald 
http://us.mc1849.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=carlet...@comcast.net  

Sent: Saturday, 2012-12-01 13:10

To: 'Kilopascal' 
http://us.mc1849.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=kilopas...@cox.net  ; 'U.S. 
Metric Association' 
http://us.mc1849

[USMA:52047] RE: Fw: Re: Re: Pennzoil 5.1 quarts

[Carleton MacDonald]

No, it is normal to use a bit of oil in between changes – when the level gets 
low you just put the remainder into your engine.

 

Every car has a different oil capacity, and it can vary depending on whether 
the engine is dry (no residual oil) or is being refilled (you drained the old 
oil but you can’t ever get all of it out).  So it is unlikely that you will 
have a car that requires exactly 5.000 quarts.  If it is less you will have 
some left over in any case.

 

My own car:

 


CAPACITIES: 



Engine, Dry Fill, with filter..5.4 liters [1]
Engine, Refill, with filter..4 liters [2]
Cooling System, Initial Fill..7.6 liters
AMSOIL Antifreeze and Engine Coolant 
http://www.amsoil.com/catalog.aspx?code=ANT1G-EA 
Automatic Transmission, FA57 Initial Fill..Not Specified
Automatic Transmission, Total Fill
   5 speed FA57..7.2 liters
Manual Transmission, F25 (5-SPD)..2 liters




[1] Dry fill capacity shown.
[2] Refill capacity shown.



Carleton

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Ressel, Howard (DOT)
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 11:06
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52046] RE: Fw: Re: Re: Pennzoil 5.1 quarts

 

So if you need 5 Quarts, 0.1 quart goes down the drain or to the landfill.  

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
John M. Steele
Sent: Tuesday, December 04, 2012 9:42 AM
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52044] Fw: Re: Re: Pennzoil 5.1 quarts

 



Found a link to a FAQ from Mobil.  At least for them (maybe everybody) it is 
true that a 5 QT size is an exclusive to Walmart, and they don't sell it 
elsewhere.   However, they do sell a 5.1 QT size (I suspect same physical jug, 
different fill and label) 

http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Car_Care/AskMobil/Walmart_Collection.aspx

 

Another forum says Walmart did it to avoid their price match guarentee.  If 
everyone else sells a (slightly) different size, no price match.  


--- On Mon, 12/3/12, John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net wrote:


From: John M. Steele jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net
Subject: Re: [USMA:52038] Re: Pennzoil 5.1 quarts
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu, don.hill...@colostate.edu
Date: Monday, December 3, 2012, 11:01 PM


I found a larger, clearer photo (at Amazon).  The tagline is 5 Plus Quarts.  In 
the net contents area, it is marked 5.1 QT  4.826 Liters.  Many brands besides 
Pennzoil are selling the size, some are also marked 1.275 gallons (some specify 
that it is a U.S. quart or gallon).

 

I found no good reason for it.  Another forum claimed Walmart had an exclusive 
with oil companies for a five quart size, and the 5.1 qt was a way of 
competing.  I don't know if this is true, but I did find a Walmart photo and ad 
for a 5 qt size, so perhaps this story hangs together.  I found some off brands 
still selling 4qt, 1 gallon sizes, but the majors appear to have gone to this 
size.  I found no evidence of it being a common engine oil capacity; engines 
seems to be all over the place for all capacity.

 

Note: Technically, the 4.826 L is non-compliant.  FPLA and UPLR (UPLR applies 
to motor oil) only allow three significant digits to the metric claim.  Should 
be 4.82 L or a little more fill and 4.83 L.  However, using 4 digits is a 
relatively common error with many example products.  Oddly, the Customary claim 
allows up to three decimal digits.

--- On Mon, 12/3/12, Hillger,Donald don.hill...@colostate.edu wrote:


From: Hillger,Donald don.hill...@colostate.edu
Subject: [USMA:52038] Re: Pennzoil 5.1 quarts
To: U.S. Metric Association usma@colostate.edu
Date: Monday, December 3, 2012, 9:59 PM

Actually, on the Pennzoil container it acknowledges the extra bit over 5 quarts 
in some way in words, but I don’t recall exactly what it says.

 

From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf Of 
Paul Trusten
Sent: Monday, 03 December 2012 19:50
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:52037] Re: Pennzoil 5.1 quarts

  

Does it possibly say to deliver 5 quarts on the container?

Paul Trusten, Reg. Pharmacist

Vice President

U.S. Metric Association, Inc.

Midland, Texas USA

www.metric.org http://www.metric.org/  

+1(432)528-7724

trus...@grandecom.net 
http://us.mc1849.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=trus...@grandecom.net 

 


On Dec 3, 2012, at 20:20, Hillger,Donald don.hill...@colostate.edu 
http://us.mc1849.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=don.hill...@colostate.edu  
wrote:

Here’s a mystery for the list:

  

I found the attached image in the K-Mart weekly ad, and went to the store to 
find that most oil brands are sold now in 5.1 quart size.  Why? 

  

5.1 quarts = 4.8 L = 1.28 gallons, so nothing is rounded. 

  

Don 

 

Pennzoil_5.1-quart.jpg

 

[USMA:52031] RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save money - NY Daily News

[Carleton MacDonald]

In many countries the government agency that makes coin and paper notes is
the same.

 

In the USA it's the United States Mint vs. the Bureau of Engraving and
Printing.  Different employees, and probably different unions, each wanting
to preserve its piece of the pie.

 

Not to mention the lobbying power of the Crane  Company of Massachusetts,
which makes the paper for all notes, and for which the $1 bill is a huge
part of it.

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 15:06
To: Carleton MacDonald; 'U.S. Metric Association'
Subject: Re: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to
save money - NY Daily News

 

I hope the bill passes this time.  I too use dollar coins and two dollar
bills.  I don't reject dollar bills if given to me in change as I take them
home and save them up and return them to the bank to buy more coins and 2
dollar bills.  

 

Let's just hope the lobby that supports the coin can win against the lobby
that supports paper.

 

 

 

From: Carleton MacDonald mailto:carlet...@comcast.net  

Sent: Saturday, 2012-12-01 13:10

To: 'Kilopascal' mailto:kilopas...@cox.net  ; 'U.S. Metric Association'
mailto:usma@colostate.edu  

Subject: RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to
save money - NY Daily News

 

I understand the bill in Congress to make this happen was sponsored by two
Republicans.  That may make it more likely to pass as the Republicans are
often the obstructionists for things like this.

 

I added a comment to the article.

 

I use dollar coins exclusively and go out of my way to avoid getting dollar
bills in change.

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 12:23
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save
money - NY Daily News

 

Well, it appears the government has re-opened the issue of the dollar coin.
They seriously want to get rid of the dollar bill as a means to cut
spending.  Of course there are also those who hate the idea flooding the
internet news reports and blogs with their usual tired old excuses.  They
may be scared that Obama this time will push it as he doesn't have to worry
about an election.

 

Since they already have minted about 2.4 milliard, these could be first to
be pumped into circulation simply by ceasing printing and withdrawing a
significant amount of the dilapidated bills, creating a bill shortage that
can only be taken up by the coin.

 

Since there are supporters with money who won't let this issue die, I can
see that eventually, the coin will win out. 

 

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/ax-dollar-bills-save-money-congress
-article-1.1211013

No virus found in this message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
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[USMA:52032] RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save money - NY Daily News

[Carleton MacDonald]

The only problem with the $2 bill is that it will still be used for small
purchases, people won't spend their coins as a result (see below for earlier
comment on that), and they will still complain about the buildup of coin.  I
think the smallest bill should be the $5, as it is in Canada, the UK and
Europe.  (Or, make a $2 coin, as other countries have.)

 

This despite the fact that I think the back of the $2 bill is very
attractive (the image of the signing of the Declaration of Independence).

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 16:07
To: Carleton MacDonald; 'U.S. Metric Association'
Subject: Re: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to
save money - NY Daily News

 

I think it has more to do with the paper lobby then anything else.  In the
case of the paper union and the Crane  Company, there can be a compromise
in that the government can agree to print more paper two dollar bills along
with dollar coins.  

 

If you count the number of dollar bills in circulation and then compare it
to the number of two dollar bills printed and one dollar coins already
minted, what is the result?  

 

For Example:

 

There are 1.2 G$ of two dollar bills unused.

 

http://www.eaglenews.org/two-dollar-bill-myth-leaves-1-2-billion-dollars-unu
sed-in-system-1.2632687#.ULpusO_ZXmc

 

Add this to the 2.4 G$ in dollar coins already minted but in storage and you
have 3.6 G$ already that can be put into circulation.  But, the only way
they will be used is if printing of the dollar bill ceases and a portion of
the dollar bills already in circulation are removed.  This would create
enough of a shortage, forcing the use of the two dollar bill and dollar
coin.

 

It may take a few years to completely replace the one dollar bill with two
dollar bills and dollar coins, but the first thing to do is get the ball
rolling and put into use that which is in storage and costing the government
money.

 

If it can be shown that people quickly can adopt to the change of currency,
it can be proved that people can get use to the change in measurements. 

 

 

 

 

From: Carleton MacDonald mailto:carlet...@comcast.net  

Sent: Saturday, 2012-12-01 15:44

To: 'Kilopascal' mailto:kilopas...@cox.net  ; 'U.S. Metric Association'
mailto:usma@colostate.edu  

Subject: RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to
save money - NY Daily News

 

In many countries the government agency that makes coin and paper notes is
the same.

 

In the USA it's the United States Mint vs. the Bureau of Engraving and
Printing.  Different employees, and probably different unions, each wanting
to preserve its piece of the pie.

 

Not to mention the lobbying power of the Crane  Company of Massachusetts,
which makes the paper for all notes, and for which the $1 bill is a huge
part of it.

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 15:06
To: Carleton MacDonald; 'U.S. Metric Association'
Subject: Re: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to
save money - NY Daily News

 

I hope the bill passes this time.  I too use dollar coins and two dollar
bills.  I don't reject dollar bills if given to me in change as I take them
home and save them up and return them to the bank to buy more coins and 2
dollar bills.  

 

Let's just hope the lobby that supports the coin can win against the lobby
that supports paper.

 

 

 

From: Carleton MacDonald mailto:carlet...@comcast.net  

Sent: Saturday, 2012-12-01 13:10

To: 'Kilopascal' mailto:kilopas...@cox.net  ; 'U.S. Metric Association'
mailto:usma@colostate.edu  

Subject: RE: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to
save money - NY Daily News

 

I understand the bill in Congress to make this happen was sponsored by two
Republicans.  That may make it more likely to pass as the Republicans are
often the obstructionists for things like this.

 

I added a comment to the article.

 

I use dollar coins exclusively and go out of my way to avoid getting dollar
bills in change.

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Saturday, December 01, 2012 12:23
To: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: Congress considers getting rid of dollar bills for $1 coins to save
money - NY Daily News

 

Well, it appears the government has re-opened the issue of the dollar coin.
They seriously want to get rid of the dollar bill as a means to cut
spending.  Of course there are also those who hate the idea flooding the
internet news reports and blogs with their usual tired old excuses.  They
may be scared that Obama this time will push it as he doesn't have to worry
about an election.

 

Since they already have minted about 2.4 milliard, these could be first to
be pumped into circulation simply by ceasing printing and withdrawing a
significant amount of the dilapidated bills, creating a bill shortage that
can only be taken up

[USMA:51981] Re: Metric System Still Has Loyal Supporters in the U.S. - WSJ.com

[Carleton MacDonald]

I may be the person referred to (not by name) who has the tape measure given
by a Russian railway employee.  It's a 3-meter tape measure, in the backpack
I use to take my computer, lunch, and newspaper to and from work.  It has a
Russian railway logo on it, but interestingly the button you use to retract
the tape says PUSH.

I must have said something about it in a post some time ago.

Carleton

-Original Message-
From: owner-u...@colostate.edu [mailto:owner-u...@colostate.edu] On Behalf
Of Paul Trusten
Sent: Saturday, November 24, 2012 13:27
To: U.S. Metric Association
Cc: U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:51980] Re: Metric System Still Has Loyal Supporters in the
U.S. - WSJ.com

My sentiments exactly. I was very disappointed, and haven't cooled fown yet.
I expected Scheck to take the high road on metrication, and he wrote the
usual chazerei. But the article puts metrication in the spotlight.

Paul Trusten, Reg. Pharmacist
Vice President
U.S. Metric Association, Inc.
Midland, Texas USA
www.metric.org 
+1(432)528-7724
trus...@grandecom.net


On Nov 24, 2012, at 11:49, c...@traditio.com wrote:

 This WSJ article is not the worst I have seen, but it is typical of the
generally worthless touchy-feely articles that even the best journals now
engage in.  Where are the hard data?
 
 Where are the hard data about metric commerce?  Where are the hard data
about the cost of maintaining dual inventories?  Where are the hard data
about how many U.S. industries have already gone metric, like the automotive
industry, but without using metric units in advertising (except for the
Chevy Volt).  What about the conversion of the household lighting industry
last January to fully metric data on CFL packaging?
 
 Yes, the WSJ could have done a much better job if it purports to represent
American business.
 
 
 On Sat, 24 Nov 2012, Metric Rules Info wrote:
 
 From today's Wall Street Journal on the front page:
 Metric System Still Has Loyal Supporters in the U.S. - WSJ.com 
 http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142412788732371310457813496273189
 6422.html?KEYWORDS=Metric+oven
 
 

[USMA:51966] RE: The foreign press does poorly on Customary/metric conversion too.

[Carleton MacDonald]

I bought some Brie cheese at Costco yesterday.  It was from France, but with
the Kirkland (store) brand.  The indication was 17.6 oz/499 g.  No doubt it
started out as 500 g, then got converted to 17.6 oz, then someone
back-converted it to grams again.

 

Carleton

 

From: Kilopascal [mailto:kilopas...@cox.net] 
Sent: Sunday, November 04, 2012 13:06
To: jmsteele9...@sbcglobal.net; U.S. Metric Association
Subject: [USMA:51964] The foreign press does poorly on Customary/metric
conversion too.

 

Anytime you have one system and one collection of arbitrary units competing
with each other there is going to be a need to convert from one to the
other.  Conversion mistakes will always occur, especially if the converted
number is rounded.

 

And if you have back and forth conversions, with a lot of rounding you can
end up with more errors then you shake a stick at.

 

One would think the errors would be minimal if the news agencies use on-line
converters.  If they convert manually, any thing can happen.

 

The only way to stop the errors is for the media to come to an agreement to
use one system (SI) universally.

 

 

 

 


[USMA:51964] The foreign press does poorly on Customary/metric conversion
too.


John M. Steele
Sat, 03 Nov 2012 04:41:47 -0700

Noticed two articles that got it pretty wrong:
 
First, Reuters says the amount of a fuel spill is unknown but then quotes
a 
third-hand Coast Guard estimate, but how about those super-liters.  I
doubt 
NBC said anything about any liters.  The good news is several commenters on
the 
article noticed.
http://news.yahoo.com/fuel-spills-waterway-between-jersey-staten-island-0129
13605--nba.html
NBC, citing the U.S. Coast Guard, said 300,000 gallons (115,000 liters) of 
diesel fuel had been released.
 
This article is attributed by copyright to Deutsche Presse-Agentur.  In the 
Kia/Hyundai fuel label scandal, it correctly reports the claim that the Kia 
fleet average, corrected, falls from 27 to 26 mpg.  It incorrectly converts
to 
liters per 100 kilometers, making a 3% change become a 10% change.  (It also

appears to mean KIA failed to meet CAFE unless they have banked credits.)
http://www.hispanicbusiness.com/2012/11/2/kia_hyundai_overstated_fuel_effici
ency_will.htm
On average, the EPA found that both companies had overstated their
efficiency 
by an average of 3 per cent. For the 2012 KIA fleet, this means a downgrade 
from 27 miles per gallon (mpg) to 26 mpg. In metric system terms, it means
the 
fleet uses 9.6 litres per 100 kilometres instead of the claimed 8.7 liters.
(To save you math, the 9.6 claim should be 9.0 L/100 km, assuming the mpg 
figures are correct.)

 

[USMA:51864] FW: [A_A] Stockholm to Oslo, 08/22

[Carleton MacDonald]

On another list, one of the posters is on a vacation in Norway, and is
describing his trip.  Apparently he rented a car and is talking about its
fuel economy.  His postings are a hodgepodge mix of metric (since he's in
Norway, that's what he is seeing) plus some kind of effort to be what he
thinks is polite by converting some, but not all, of the measurements he is
encountering into colonial units.  

 

I have somewhat of a reputation on this other list for pushing metric so he
asked he to convert for him, something I was reluctant to do, and explained
why.

 

Carleton

 


Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 22:22
To: all_abo...@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [A_A] Stockholm to Oslo, 08/22

 

  

We have a Hyundai i30 diesel; it may have a hybrid system though its engine
does not stop when standing still - there's a blue drive emblem which Toyota
uses on Priuses and Camry hybrids. Fuel is in the $8.50 -9.00 per gallon
range; the car computer says it uses about 5 liters per 100 km on the
highway. Carleton, could you please convert that to MPG?

- Not sure how the price was calculated because the gallon is unknown in
every country of the world except the USA (until the 1970s the British
Commonwealth countries used the imperial gallon but it was different than
the US gallon, that being the old version of the gallon the Commonwealth
countries abandoned around 1830 or so!).

5 L/100 km is very good fuel economy and that is the way to think of it; my
car (2002 Saab 9-5 wagon) averages around 10 L/100 km in mixed city and
highway driving (8 L/100 km on a long highway trip); your average Cadillac
Escalade is more like 15, and a Hummer S2, around 20. The advantage of
doing it this way is that it makes it trivial to know if you have enough gas
for the trip you are planning. Let's see, the tank holds 70 liters and
it's half full, so that's about 35 in the tank. The distance to my
destination is 300 km. I get 10 L/100 km, so I'm going to burn about 30 L.
I'll make it, but I'll be on bingo fuel* when I get there with only 5 liters
left.

Stop trying to convert everything, it is pointless. Just get a feel for the
units and they'll make sense within a few hours. Trying to convert is what
causes people trouble.

However, if you insist, my 10 L/100 km is about 23 miles per gallon, so
since you're burning half the gas, your m.p.g. is about double.

Carleton

*Naval aviation term: Minimum fuel for a comfortable and safe return to
base. Aircraft can fly and fight past bingo fuel in combat situations, but
at considerable peril.

---

From: all_abo...@yahoogroups.com mailto:All_Aboard%40yahoogroups.com
[mailto:all_abo...@yahoogroups.com mailto:All_Aboard%40yahoogroups.com ]
On
Behalf Of Gary R. Kazin
Sent: Wednesday, August 22, 2012 13:26
To: all_abo...@yahoogroups.com mailto:all_aboard%40yahoogroups.com 
Subject: [A_A] Stockholm to Oslo, 08/22

Well, tonight (and the next two) we are staying at a hospital!

The Rikshospitalet (Royal Hospital) has a hotel on its property, open to
all, not just relatives of patients and out-patients. The rate was
'reasonable' when compared with other hotels in the Oslo area. Parking is
expensive, unfortunately. We had buffet dinner in their dining room and
probably ate too much.

For the past three mornings, we ate breakfast surrounded by SJ (Swedish
Railways) crew members who had overnighted at our hotel, the Comfort, which
is connected to the central railroad station. This morning they were joined
by members of the Swedish armed forces, and I think I saw a few people
comparing uniforms!

We took the Arlanda Express train back to the airport to get our rental car
and headed west. I saw a three Green Freight electric locomotives coupled
together; they look like AEM-7's in black with green lettering.

We have a Hyundai i30 diesel; it may have a hybrid system though its engine
does not stop when standing still - there's a blue drive emblem which Toyota
uses on Priuses and Camry hybrids. Fuel is in the $8.50 -9.00 per gallon
range; the car computer says it uses about 5 liters per 100 km on the
highway. Carleton, could you please convert that to MPG?

It's about 6 1/2 hours drive between the cities. Part is superhighway,
including a new section of about 8 KM in Norway that includes a tunnel; our
GPS didn't have it in its data base so it kept trying to navigate onto local
roads. Some is three-lane divided, with two lanes in one direction separated
by a barrier from the other direction; they alternate every kilometer or
two. Beyond that, we were on two lane roads until the outskirts of Oslo.
Traffic was very heavy - in the other direction. Ours was ok except a short
section before reaching the hotel.

We made a number of stops along the way, including one to shop for lunch and
another at a national park picnic area to eat it and walk around.

A light rail station adjoins the hotel, so we'll use that to explore the
city - two lines alternate, each on