Re: [VFB] VFB Then Now -Suggestion
Neville I hear you, however. (oops) Does one (collective) need the introduction of new ideas (blood) to maintain the health of the genepool? Genetics 101. Duh, yes, from a stagnation point of view, however (oops again) the ability to think out of the box, or burn the bloody thing, as the likes of Don, Jimmy or Tony do every now and then, seems to indicate that the ability to regenerate internally, is a malaligned ability. And here we face the reality of conservatisim vs liberalism, can this be done internally, as shown by our mentors, or do we toss out the baby with the bathwater? I have watched the world of fashion and glamour photography develop over a number of years, (dont try, I aint gonna tell you how many), and what astounds me, is the reinvention of the same ideas/themes over a approx 30 - 40 yr cycle (ya, argue me for a decade or so) look at what Annie Liebowitz did with the 'Stones, think you can find me a parrallel today... It's all been done before, you just gotta find a new way of packaging it for today. Clark Goddard.. just look at what is popping up on Hans Weilenmans' site currently. I'm NOT argueing against the reinventors, we all have to be. But the old soaks, knew a thing or two before they couldnt wade the streams any more. Welcome the new, but PLEASE, not at the expence of the more experienced. Your mileage may vary Mr. Gosling, but hear a man with some miles on the clock. With respect Nev, please, no offence intended, even if you imagine it so David 2010/1/26 Neville Gosling nev.gosl...@shaw.ca David: This is a quote taken directly from my Jan 2010 newsletter sent to my fellow club members *I returned from the United Kingdom just three days ago after my longest ever stay in the UK since coming to Canada in 1972. Every time that I go back, I find things just that little bit different. It is no longer the same country that I left all those years ago, but then again, neither is the Canada that I returned to the same as the one I came to in 1972. Canada has become more urbanized over the years. While in the UK, I read a book by W.D. Wetherell entitled “North of Now” that discusses country life in New Hampshire and Vermont, and the fact that country life is changing and in many cases disappearing. The quotation “Change is inevitable. Change is Constant” is attributed to Benjamin Disraeli and is so true. I believe that in order to continue as a strong and respected club, the Totem Flyfishers must also change, but change is stressful and tends to invoke resistance. Traditions are important and comfortable, so how does one balance retaining important traditions with change? Another quote, this time by Niccolo Machiavelli states; “Whosoever desires constant success must change his conduct with the times.” I believe that we must adapt with the times in order to attract new and younger members. In my opinion, the present average age of members is too great and we must bring in new and if possible younger persons in order to have a group of younger like-minded members to pass the club on to. I am pleased to say that I believe that we are just beginning to make a little progress in this area and I ask each of you to diligently look out for potential new members as we go forward into 2010. * So, in answer to your question, I think that the VFB must change in order to attract more members. Although I prefer the e-mail list, I suggest that we TRY the forum approach. Just take a look at this http://speypages.com/speyclave/ and look at the number of posts and threads. http://www.flybc.ca is similar. That's my 2 cents worth. Neville (Nev) Gosling Greater Vancouver, B.C. Canada -- *From:* vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *David Colyn *Sent:* January 26, 2010 12:04 PM *To:* vfb-mail@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [VFB] VFB Then Now Well said Nev. Have any solution to the well defined problem?? I sure dont. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- David Colyn 072 345 5510 -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
Re: [VFB] VFB Then Now -Suggestion
What Don said!!! Don accept my ass on FB.. 2010/1/26 Don Ordes f...@tribcsp.com Nev., Someone has to host and moderate those type forums, right? The VFB used to have a chat-room, and that was fun when people participated. What would it take, and from whom, to implement this approach? I, for one, don't see a problem with this site and the way it works. Again, the ease of posting photos is a huge asset if it is used. Real quick- on my soap-box, and off again. I've trained draftsmen, designers, engineers, and plant operators for near 30 years- in seminar-style environments and 1-on-one. I too have noticed a big difference in the attitudes of students, from the old hands to the new hands. The old hands are used to participating and putting something in to get something out. I *won't *say this is catagorically true, but the new generation seems to want to sit there and have everything delivered (ready to microwave in 20 seconds to eat, so to speak). I know this from my training seminars of operators, comparing the seminars of 20 years ago to those of today, then comparing the older ones in the seminars to the newer ones. So much is taken for granted these days. Is this a social phenominon brought on by quick-sell no-effort promotional tactics, and the fast-access/results internet? It seems flyfishermen would NOT fit this bill, as they would go out and buy flies, not tie them, if they were 'lazy', but they are not. Off my box again. DonO - Original Message - *From:* Neville Gosling nev.gosl...@shaw.ca *To:* vfb-mail@googlegroups.com *Sent:* Tuesday, January 26, 2010 1:40 PM *Subject:* [VFB] VFB Then Now -Suggestion David: This is a quote taken directly from my Jan 2010 newsletter sent to my fellow club members *I returned from the United Kingdom just three days ago after my longest ever stay in the UK since coming to Canada in 1972. Every time that I go back, I find things just that little bit different. It is no longer the same country that I left all those years ago, but then again, neither is the Canada that I returned to the same as the one I came to in 1972. Canada has become more urbanized over the years. While in the UK, I read a book by W.D. Wetherell entitled “North of Now” that discusses country life in New Hampshire and Vermont, and the fact that country life is changing and in many cases disappearing. The quotation “Change is inevitable. Change is Constant” is attributed to Benjamin Disraeli and is so true. I believe that in order to continue as a strong and respected club, the Totem Flyfishers must also change, but change is stressful and tends to invoke resistance. Traditions are important and comfortable, so how does one balance retaining important traditions with change? Another quote, this time by Niccolo Machiavelli states; “Whosoever desires constant success must change his conduct with the times.” I believe that we must adapt with the times in order to attract new and younger members. In my opinion, the present average age of members is too great and we must bring in new and if possible younger persons in order to have a group of younger like-minded members to pass the club on to. I am pleased to say that I believe that we are just beginning to make a little progress in this area and I ask each of you to diligently look out for potential new members as we go forward into 2010. * So, in answer to your question, I think that the VFB must change in order to attract more members. Although I prefer the e-mail list, I suggest that we TRY the forum approach. Just take a look at this http://speypages.com/speyclave/ and look at the number of posts and threads. http://www.flybc.ca is similar. That's my 2 cents worth. Neville (Nev) Gosling Greater Vancouver, B.C. Canada -- *From:* vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *David Colyn *Sent:* January 26, 2010 12:04 PM *To:* vfb-mail@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [VFB] VFB Then Now Well said Nev. Have any solution to the well defined problem?? I sure dont. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com --
RE: [VFB] VFB Then Now -Suggestion
_ From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Colyn Sent: January 26, 2010 1:00 PM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [VFB] VFB Then Now -Suggestion Neville I hear you, however. (oops) Does one (collective) need the introduction of new ideas (blood) to maintain the health of the genepool? Yes, I believe we need both new ideas, topics ect. and new members - not at the expense of the experienced members but in addition to. Genetics 101. Duh, yes, from a stagnation point of view, however (oops again) the ability to think out of the box, or burn the bloody thing, as the likes of Don, Jimmy or Tony do every now and then, seems to indicate that the ability to regenerate internally, is a malaligned ability. And here we face the reality of conservatisim vs liberalism, can this be done internally, as shown by our mentors, or do we toss out the baby with the bathwater? What are you actually trying to say here? I have watched the world of fashion and glamour photography develop over a number of years, (dont try, I aint gonna tell you how many), and what astounds me, is the reinvention of the same ideas/themes over a approx 30 - 40 yr cycle (ya, argue me for a decade or so) look at what Annie Liebowitz did with the 'Stones, think you can find me a parrallel today... Flies are reinvented all the time with minute variations. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. It's all been done before, you just gotta find a new way of packaging it for today. Clark Goddard.. just look at what is popping up on Hans Weilenmans' site currently. I visit Hans site from time to time as I feel it is makes for great reference material. I have just gone back to have a look and what I see are new people and their flies being featured, but that is something that has been going on ever since Hans started the site. Yes it has been done before (the flies that is) but Han's site is a very effective medium for display. I'm NOT argueing against the reinventors, we all have to be. But the old soaks, knew a thing or two before they couldnt wade the streams any more. I'm not denying that they don't know a thing or two however, as we age we tend to get somewhat stuck in our ways. Change is stressful and is generally resisted, but change is constant whether we like it or not. This is very evident in my fly fishing club which is almost 43 years old. Welcome the new, but PLEASE, not at the expence of the more experienced. That is not my intention or suggestion at all. I am merely suggesting TRYING a change in format from e-mail list to a forum. The experienced members can still access and comment on a forum. Your mileage may vary Mr. Gosling, but hear a man with some miles on the clock. Call me Nev not Mr. Gosling With respect Nev, please, no offence intended, even if you imagine it so That's better. No offence taken or implied. Neville (Nev) Gosling Greater Vancouver, B.C. Canada -- David 2010/1/26 Neville Gosling nev.gosl...@shaw.ca David: This is a quote taken directly from my Jan 2010 newsletter sent to my fellow club members I returned from the United Kingdom just three days ago after my longest ever stay in the UK since coming to Canada in 1972. Every time that I go back, I find things just that little bit different. It is no longer the same country that I left all those years ago, but then again, neither is the Canada that I returned to the same as the one I came to in 1972. Canada has become more urbanized over the years. While in the UK, I read a book by W.D. Wetherell entitled North of Now that discusses country life in New Hampshire and Vermont, and the fact that country life is changing and in many cases disappearing. The quotation Change is inevitable. Change is Constant is attributed to Benjamin Disraeli and is so true. I believe that in order to continue as a strong and respected club, the Totem Flyfishers must also change, but change is stressful and tends to invoke resistance. Traditions are important and comfortable, so how does one balance retaining important traditions with change? Another quote, this time by Niccolo Machiavelli states; Whosoever desires constant success must change his conduct with the times. I believe that we must adapt with the times in order to attract new and younger members. In my opinion, the present average age of members is too great and we must bring in new and if possible younger persons in order to have a group of younger like-minded members to pass the club on to. I am pleased to say that I believe that we are just beginning to make a little progress in this area and I ask each of you to diligently look out for potential new members as we go forward into 2010. So, in answer to your question, I think that the VFB must change in order to attract more members. Although I prefer the e-mail list, I
Re: [VFB] VFB Then Now -Suggestion
Genetics 101. Duh, yes, from a stagnation point of view, however (oops again) the ability to think out of the box, or burn the bloody thing, as the likes of Don, Jimmy or Tony do every now and then, seems to indicate that the ability to regenerate internally, is a malaligned ability. And here we face the reality of conservatisim vs liberalism, can this be done internally, as shown by our mentors, or do we toss out the baby with the bathwater? What are you actually trying to say here? We do not have to sacrifice the wisdom of experience for the enthusiasm of the adventurouse. I have watched the world of fashion and glamour photography develop over a number of years, (dont try, I aint gonna tell you how many), and what astounds me, is the reinvention of the same ideas/themes over a approx 30 - 40 yr cycle (ya, argue me for a decade or so) look at what Annie Liebowitz did with the 'Stones, think you can find me a parrallel today... Flies are reinvented all the time with minute variations. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. Reinvention isnnt the be all and end all Nev. What about new ideas that come from having seen and studied it all, or the most of it? New ideas are good and well, but have they been tested against the hard school of hard knocks? Its not a question to answer, rather the rhetorical one. It's all been done before, you just gotta find a new way of packaging it for today. Clark Goddard.. just look at what is popping up on Hans Weilenmans' site currently. I visit Hans site from time to time as I feel it is makes for great reference material. I have just gone back to have a look and what I see are new people and their flies being featured, but that is something that has been going on ever since Hans started the site. Yes it has been done before (the flies that is) but Han's site is a very effective medium for display. Hans does BRILLIANT work, no arguement, however it does go to illustrate my point of new things I'm NOT argueing against the reinventors, we all have to be. But the old soaks, knew a thing or two before they couldnt wade the streams any more. I'm not denying that they don't know a thing or two however, as we age we tend to get somewhat stuck in our ways. Change is stressful and is generally resisted, but change is constant whether we like it or not. This is very evident in my fly fishing club which is almost 43 years old. Nev, I'm not argueing AGAINST the new, I'm arguing for the established and tried. Not for forms and mediums of communication, marketing and member generation, but for methode, style, technique, form forgive me, class (accepts all forms of abuse, slander, ridicule etc that may be forth comming). The fish aint gonna know it, Nev, but the kid that done it sure will. You cant argue laddie, there is summat to be said for that. Like I said in the begining, I hear what you are saying. Maybe keep the good of the old and bring in the good of the new, to make a better now. Sounds lame.. But I mean it.. G'nite all Thanks for being there, ALWAYS! David 2010/1/26 Neville Gosling nev.gosl...@shaw.ca -- *From:* vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *David Colyn *Sent:* January 26, 2010 1:00 PM *To:* vfb-mail@googlegroups.com *Subject:* Re: [VFB] VFB Then Now -Suggestion Neville I hear you, however. (oops) Does one (collective) need the introduction of new ideas (blood) to maintain the health of the genepool? Yes, I believe we need both new ideas, topics ect. and new members - not at the expense of the experienced members but in addition to. Genetics 101. Duh, yes, from a stagnation point of view, however (oops again) the ability to think out of the box, or burn the bloody thing, as the likes of Don, Jimmy or Tony do every now and then, seems to indicate that the ability to regenerate internally, is a malaligned ability. And here we face the reality of conservatisim vs liberalism, can this be done internally, as shown by our mentors, or do we toss out the baby with the bathwater? What are you actually trying to say here? I have watched the world of fashion and glamour photography develop over a number of years, (dont try, I aint gonna tell you how many), and what astounds me, is the reinvention of the same ideas/themes over a approx 30 - 40 yr cycle (ya, argue me for a decade or so) look at what Annie Liebowitz did with the 'Stones, think you can find me a parrallel today... Flies are reinvented all the time with minute variations. I'm not sure what point you are trying to make. It's all been done before, you just gotta find a new way of packaging it for today. Clark Goddard.. just look at what is popping up on Hans Weilenmans' site currently. I visit Hans site from time to time as I feel it is makes for great reference material. I
Re: [VFB] VFB Then Now -Suggestion
Nev, Some change is good but some is bad. The river I moved to 16 years ago has changed and the people fishing it have also changed but not for the good. Now from my first tying days, it really has changed and most of it for the good. I can't agree on a forum. Tony --- On Tue, 1/26/10, Neville Gosling nev.gosl...@shaw.ca wrote: From: Neville Gosling nev.gosl...@shaw.ca Subject: [VFB] VFB Then Now -Suggestion To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Date: Tuesday, January 26, 2010, 2:40 PM David: This is a quote taken directly from my Jan 2010 newsletter sent to my fellow club members I returned from the United Kingdom just three days ago after my longest ever stay in the UK since coming to Canada in 1972. Every time that I go back, I find things just that little bit different. It is no longer the same country that I left all those years ago, but then again, neither is the Canada that I returned to the same as the one I came to in 1972. Canada has become more urbanized over the years. While in the UK , I read a book by W.D. Wetherell entitled “North of Now” that discusses country life in New Hampshire and Vermont , and the fact that country life is changing and in many cases disappearing. The quotation “Change is inevitable. Change is Constant” is attributed to Benjamin Disraeli and is so true. I believe that in order to continue as a strong and respected club, the Totem Flyfishers must also change, but change is stressful and tends to invoke resistance. Traditions are important and comfortable, so how does one balance retaining important traditions with change? Another quote, this time by Niccolo Machiavelli states; “Whosoever desires constant success must change his conduct with the times.” I believe that we must adapt with the times in order to attract new and younger members. In my opinion, the present average age of members is too great and we must bring in new and if possible younger persons in order to have a group of younger like-minded members to pass the club on to. I am pleased to say that I believe that we are just beginning to make a little progress in this area and I ask each of you to diligently look out for potential new members as we go forward into 2010. So, in answer to your question, I think that the VFB must change in order to attract more members. Although I prefer the e-mail list, I suggest that we TRY the forum approach. Just take a look at this http://speypages.com/speyclave/ and look at the number of posts and threads. http://www.flybc.ca is similar. That's my 2 cents worth. Neville (Nev) Gosling Greater Vancouver, B.C. Canada From: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com [mailto:vfb-m...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of David Colyn Sent: January 26, 2010 12:04 PM To: vfb-mail@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: [VFB] VFB Then Now Well said Nev. Have any solution to the well defined problem?? I sure dont. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VFB Mail group. To post to this group, send email to vfb-mail@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to vfb-mail-unsubscr...@googlegroups.com For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/vfb-mail?hl=en VFB Mail is sponsored by Line's End Inc at http://www.linesend.com
