Re: [videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
Joan Khoo wrote: Personally, I would do what I want regardless of the audience. I hope this idea sticks around videoblogging for a long time. :) Pete -- http://tinkernet.org/ videoblog for the future... Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
I'm wondering about "following" the lead of my vlogs. My first vlog for Immortalism, featuring the founder of The Immortality Institute, has swamped all my other vlogs. It has over 600 hits while my other vlogs haven't hit 300 total hits. So, should I "accept the message" and focus my vlogs on "defeating the blight of involuntary death"? Shouldn't we "follow" our audience??? Or, should we hold out for those vlogs we think are important instead?? Randolfe (Randy) Wicker Videographer, Writer, ActivistAdvisor: The Immortality InstituteHoboken, NJhttp://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/201-656-3280 - Original Message - From: Susan To: videoblogging@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 4:05 PM Subject: [videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior Hey! He said cheerleading. I vlog cheerleading.http://www.kitykity.com/weblog.php/vlog/comments/2774/Ok folks, now here's my two cents--my own, personal, two pennies.I get bored by themed content. I do. I watch Rocketboom, but notevery day, even though it's in my FireANT--but I see that Josh Leo,or Erin Nealey, have a new vlog post up, and I wonder, "WOW! What isTHIS one about?"What is this one about? I don't know, because every day is COMPLETELYdifferent.This is how my vlog posts are. Different. Sure, there might be aten-part series of me going to Boston, seeing an excellent concert(plug for http://www.adamezra.com ), getting drunk, and buying bagelsafterwards; but that series ends at some point in time.After that, as Monty Python would say, "...and now for somethingcompletely different."I like different, on a daily or weekly basis. Themes don't suit mypallete, you might say. Not for long, anyways.Or look at how Steve Garfield does it--sure, he has themes, but thereare many themes--CarolSteve, VlogSoup, multiple topics. So insteadof being stuck on one theme, you might instead call them...categories... where, if you were anal enough, you could make separatefeeds for each category of vlog post.Here's what Grammy thinks of themes... and, coincidentally, FireANT...http://www.kitykity.com/weblog.php/vlog/comments/2760/If all I had were two fans--my parents in Maine, and my in-laws inTexas--I would be happy. Letting them see their grandkids and such ona daily basis completely rocks. However... wow... I seem to havefifty additional feed-pings per day besides them, which while surethey could be duplicate people using different aggregators, is suremore than five additional non-relative people. So I have no theme,yet somehow I have some kind of audience, which seems to be growing byabout an average of five "pingers" a week.I'm not digging any deeper than this. I'm not out for an argument. But this has been spiraling around for so long, and I have beenwanting to speak my piece.So peace.Susanhttp://vlog.kitykity.com SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Typepad Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
You can do whatever you like, that's one of the great things about vidoeblogging. Of course, if you want to reach a larger audience, you might want to create content with regards to that particular audience in mind. Also, don't get too hung up on stats. The longer you produce content, the more attention you will attract. That's just inevtiable. You'll get more links in various places, you'll make more connections in the blogosphere, etc. Just keep doing what you want to do and by golly you'll end up doing what you want to do. -Josh On 11/27/05, Randolfe Wicker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm wondering about following the lead of my vlogs. My first vlog for Immortalism, featuring the founder of The Immortality Institute, has swamped all my other vlogs. It has over 600 hits while my other vlogs haven't hit 300 total hits. So, should I accept the message and focus my vlogs on defeating the blight of involuntary death? Shouldn't we follow our audience??? Or, should we hold out for those vlogs we think are important instead?? Randolfe (Randy) Wicker Videographer, Writer, Activist Advisor: The Immortality Institute Hoboken, NJ http://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/ 201-656-3280 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
Sounds like a do we give the audience what they want or do we do what we want dilemma. Personally, I would do what I want regardless of the audience. I believe its all in how you present it. If you consistently deliver interesting topics, the audience have no choice but to follow you. There's not point delivering interesting topics if you have no enthusiasm to back it up. Joan On 11/27/05, Randolfe Wicker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm wondering about following the lead of myvlogs. My first vlog for Immortalism, featuring thefounder of The Immortality Institute, has swamped all my other vlogs.Ithas over 600 hits while my other vlogs haven't hit 300 total hits. So, should I accept the message and focus myvlogs on defeating the blight of involuntary death? Shouldn't we follow our audience??? Or, should we hold out for those vlogs we think areimportant instead?? Randolfe (Randy) Wicker Videographer, Writer, Activist Advisor: The ImmortalityInstitute Hoboken, NJ http://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/ 201-656-3280 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home pagehttp://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM~- Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Typepad Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
On 11/28/05, Joan Khoo [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Sounds like a do we give the audience what they want or do we do what we want dilemma. This usually depends largely on whether the audience has money. Ronen cinemalog.net On 11/27/05, Randolfe Wicker [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'm wondering about following the lead of myvlogs. My first vlog for Immortalism, featuring thefounder of The Immortality Institute, has swamped all my other vlogs.Ithas over 600 hits while my other vlogs haven't hit 300 total hits. So, should I accept the message and focus myvlogs on defeating the blight of involuntary death? Shouldn't we follow our audience??? Or, should we hold out for those vlogs we think areimportant instead?? Randolfe (Randy) Wicker Videographer, Writer, Activist Advisor: The ImmortalityInstitute Hoboken, NJ http://www.randywickerreporting.blogspot.com/ 201-656-3280 Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM~- Yahoo! Groups Links* To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/* To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]* Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Typepad Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group videoblogging on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Typepad Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
Excellent! Thanks for posting this. I haven't watched any of his stuff since he interviewed Josh K... now I remember that I need to get his feed in my ant :) Susan --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, jonny goldstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cops illegally frisk a Gabe, a vlogger and his friend in a public square in Amsterdam. Of course Gabe vlogged it. Great stuff: http://www.gabe.nl/2005/11/policed-state-in-amsterdam.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
No, I was talking about Josh. He is a unique individual and I think he has one of the most spirited uses of a videoblog I have seen. When I look around at videobloggers, I do not see sameness. I see people. Do you see dead people? ;) Susan http://vlog.kitykity.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
Hey! He said cheerleading. I vlog cheerleading. http://www.kitykity.com/weblog.php/vlog/comments/2774/ Ok folks, now here's my two cents--my own, personal, two pennies. I get bored by themed content. I do. I watch Rocketboom, but not every day, even though it's in my FireANT--but I see that Josh Leo, or Erin Nealey, have a new vlog post up, and I wonder, WOW! What is THIS one about? What is this one about? I don't know, because every day is COMPLETELY different. This is how my vlog posts are. Different. Sure, there might be a ten-part series of me going to Boston, seeing an excellent concert (plug for http://www.adamezra.com ), getting drunk, and buying bagels afterwards; but that series ends at some point in time. After that, as Monty Python would say, ...and now for something completely different. I like different, on a daily or weekly basis. Themes don't suit my pallete, you might say. Not for long, anyways. Or look at how Steve Garfield does it--sure, he has themes, but there are many themes--CarolSteve, VlogSoup, multiple topics. So instead of being stuck on one theme, you might instead call them... categories... where, if you were anal enough, you could make separate feeds for each category of vlog post. Here's what Grammy thinks of themes... and, coincidentally, FireANT... http://www.kitykity.com/weblog.php/vlog/comments/2760/ If all I had were two fans--my parents in Maine, and my in-laws in Texas--I would be happy. Letting them see their grandkids and such on a daily basis completely rocks. However... wow... I seem to have fifty additional feed-pings per day besides them, which while sure they could be duplicate people using different aggregators, is sure more than five additional non-relative people. So I have no theme, yet somehow I have some kind of audience, which seems to be growing by about an average of five pingers a week. I'm not digging any deeper than this. I'm not out for an argument. But this has been spiraling around for so long, and I have been wanting to speak my piece. So peace. Susan http://vlog.kitykity.com Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 1.2 million kids a year are victims of human trafficking. Stop slavery. http://us.click.yahoo.com/WpTY2A/izNLAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
Sorry that you got such a bad rap... I thought the post was great.
And you smiled through the whole thing. :)
Susan
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, gabe_perardua [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I have to say that this is a much nicer thread than what is happening
on my vlog at the moemnt with the comments. I've just spent the last 2
hours removing hate comments about this posting. I tried to leave as
many comments that actually were about the event rather than blatant
hate comments. I've had a few before, but never 90 on one post. Lesson
I have learned from this:
Even though it is just a personal vlog for documentation sake, it
doesn't make me immune to the shit that's out there.
I love all you vloggers. Let's just remeber that we have to look out
for eachother, and support wachother's freedom of speech, or freedom
to document. Whether that be for personal celebrity, political gain,
to pick up chicks, or just for the sake of vlogging.
--- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Again, dismissive and patronizing. What arrogance.
I guess we're done here.
Verdi
On Nov 20, 2005, at 2:13 PM, andrew michael baron wrote:
Yes, and once again, even though you rip this all out of context, so
be it. I stand behind all of these statements even as fragments. Its
absolutely true that the majority of the videobloggers out there,
including yourself, are exactly this way - using videoblogging to
share my life and meet new people, to make friends. Personal
diaries. Its like Friendster for video and that is great, its how I
met most of the friends I have now.
I still wish and anticipate and can't wait to see more applied
use of
this medium in the world beyond making friends and showing each
other
their naked bodies and bodily excretions.
Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
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home page
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[videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
Josh, I'd have to say that this is the best post so far in this thread. That's quite a head you have on your shoulders; we could all learn from it. ;) Susan --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Joshua Kinberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oy, this whole conversation is like an exercise in not being able to see the forest for the trees. I think any difference really comes down to intended audience. Rocketboom is trying to reach a different audience than many other videoblogs. So far it has been successful in this regard. In doing so, Rocketboom has raised the level of attention for all videoblogs and for everyone producing and shaping this medium. It is also seen as a beacon example in the mainstream media... and for good reason. It is frequent and fresh, well written and produced, and cleverly plays off many cliches found in mainstream media. It is familiar, yet something completely new in many respects. Many videoblogs have little care for an audience beyond their friends and family. One great thing about videoblogs is that you don't really have to care about audience in order to be successful -- success is relative to your individual goals. Because the medium is so open and accessible to creators, you have the opportunity to define your own goals instead of having them defined for you by the marketplace or other such gating factors. The funny thing about vidoeblogs is that there's a side effect to producing content in such a public medium -- what is originally intended for a small audience of friends can quickly expand to a larger, more generalized audience... it can even reach into the mainstream media with coverage on TV, Radio, and Newspapers. I believe Ryanne, Verdi, Josh Leo, and others have experienced this, and thus attained a certain amount of personal celebrity, which is fun and exciting. In some ways it may even drive the desire to create more content because an audience materialized where you didn't expect it to. I think that is very rewarding. Ryanne put it really well once when she said I made a smoothie and a few hundred people gave a shit. Its all valid, one way or the other, and all exemplary of major shifts occuring due to the democratization of media. Will it be used for more applied goals as Andrew Baron envisions?... yes. Will it be used for less concrete purposes too?... yes indeed, and perhaps more so. Thank goodness that the medium is large enough and open enough to accomodate all. -Josh Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- 1.2 million kids a year are victims of human trafficking. Stop slavery. http://us.click.yahoo.com/WpTY2A/izNLAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
No wait... I've got it... you know LJdrama.com ? We need vlogdrama.com ... is it available? --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, LeanBackVids.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I find this hilarious too. Isn't this just the result of defending existing and potential personal celebrity status? We may need to start our very own gossip magazine or celebrity death match. HA! -Matt --- http://ridertech.com http://leanbackvids.com http://vlogmap.org Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
I find this hilarious too. Isn't this just the result of defending existing and potential personal celebrity status? We may need to start our very own gossip magazine or celebrity death match. HA! -Matt --- http://ridertech.com http://leanbackvids.com http://vlogmap.org Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- AIDS in India: A lurking bomb. Click and help stop AIDS now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/VpTY2A/lzNLAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
Defensiveness is what its all about, what makes it hard to discuss these sorts of issues without people falling out. Some 'personal' videobloggers are on the defensive because of how the big media voices have dismissed them. They put time and love into what they do, it seems valid to them, and it may be that this stuff incorporates the very elements of videoblogging that get them excited. Likewise creators of show-type videoblogs may get defensive if people dismiss their stuff as being pointless and too much like TV. And then as soon as we get onto questioning peoples motives, the defensive mechanisms really kick in. Shows are sellouts, only in it for the money and personal vlogs are all bout the ego and self self self. At best this is a grotesque oversimplification, and we all know of many other reasons motives why anybody would create anything, but see how easy it is to tread all over peoples brains in a single sentence. We're human, we are likely to form our own opinions of other peoples motives, but its one thing to judge others and another to declare your judgement publically, every day I struggle to keep such opinions to myself, and fail quite often. Because Rocketboom is arguably one of the most prominent shows of the new web video era, when you or Amanda gets press and gets quoted or give a speech, its going to get scrutinized more than if some nobody like me starts ranting to myself. People who are dedicating much of their lives to the personal videoblogging may be looking to you to defend that stuff, or choose your words carefully, or not mention personal vlogs at all, when in fact you are under no such obligation. Likely many times you will have little choice but to enter this territory, either because of the sorts of questions a journalist might ask, or because of the realities of number of shows like rocketboom vs number of personal vlogs. What you arent helps define what you are, so I think its fair for you to say whatever you like about this stuff. We wont have a proper debate on this if we steer clear of anything that could cause offense, but clearly its emotionally draining when peeps do take things too seriously or get the hump about a specific phrase someone used and then everyone wonders if its worth talking about it at all. Clearly I ususally err on the side of making the point at the risk of offending potentially everyone and having no friends lol, so Im not best placed to advise on this. Then there is the role of text in this affair. I think that after nearly a year of farting around and not achieving anything, I might finally decide what project to dedicate myself to, and that will be more video-based communication systems. Ive waffled about video forums before, and I know someone else has been working on this stuff, and there are some existing options, and factors such as me finding it easier to type these long messages than say them to a camera. But I still want a War on Text, and threaded video conversations etc. Steve of Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 21, 2005, at 10:31 AM, Ronen wrote: This is the funnest thread ever. Ronen I'm feeling like I have a major hangover and don't really think its funny at all, especially because I don't drink. I apologize for being offensive, it's what I always do whenever I get REALLY defensive. I have been on the defense for a long time from the likes of many outspoken characters involved in this play. I get defensive when I dont see any reason behind malicious claims being propagated around so unwittingly. I still don't see any justification for all the backlash against Amanda and myself right now. Anyway, from here on out, I'll just stick to asking technical questions and answering a few when no one else does because I'm just not going to let it get to me anymore. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
I have to say that this is a much nicer thread than what is happening on my vlog at the moemnt with the comments. I've just spent the last 2 hours removing hate comments about this posting. I tried to leave as many comments that actually were about the event rather than blatant hate comments. I've had a few before, but never 90 on one post. Lesson I have learned from this: Even though it is just a personal vlog for documentation sake, it doesn't make me immune to the shit that's out there. I love all you vloggers. Let's just remeber that we have to look out for eachother, and support wachother's freedom of speech, or freedom to document. Whether that be for personal celebrity, political gain, to pick up chicks, or just for the sake of vlogging. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, dismissive and patronizing. What arrogance. I guess we're done here. Verdi On Nov 20, 2005, at 2:13 PM, andrew michael baron wrote: Yes, and once again, even though you rip this all out of context, so be it. I stand behind all of these statements even as fragments. Its absolutely true that the majority of the videobloggers out there, including yourself, are exactly this way - using videoblogging to share my life and meet new people, to make friends. Personal diaries. Its like Friendster for video and that is great, its how I met most of the friends I have now. I still wish and anticipate and can't wait to see more applied use of this medium in the world beyond making friends and showing each other their naked bodies and bodily excretions. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
Given our medium and passions, it's a shame that -- if we at least can't get rid of flame-wars-esque discussions -- we can't at least put them in our chosen medium, to make them interesting and perhaps get people involved and active (ie: content creators) by inspiring reactions. (ie, this is a yahoo groups debate, not an actual vlog debate) hm... now THAT would be interesting. (Obviousely, I don't there's much to debate... but using it as a forum sounds interesting... instead of 2-minute responses, 2-minute videos, with 5 days prep... etc, etc. Not for this debate, probably, but food for thought)On 11/21/05, gabe_perardua [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have to say that this is a much nicer thread than what is happening on my vlog at the moemnt with the comments. I've just spent the last 2 hours removing hate comments about this posting. I tried to leave as many comments that actually were about the event rather than blatant hate comments. I've had a few before, but never 90 on one post. Lesson I have learned from this: Even though it is just a personal vlog for documentation sake, it doesn't make me immune to the shit that's out there. I love all you vloggers. Let's just remeber that we have to look out for eachother, and support wachother's freedom of speech, or freedom to document. Whether that be for personal celebrity, political gain, to pick up chicks, or just for the sake of vlogging. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Again, dismissive and patronizing. What arrogance. I guess we're done here. Verdi On Nov 20, 2005, at 2:13 PM, andrew michael baron wrote: Yes, and once again, even though you rip this all out of context, so be it. I stand behind all of these statements even as fragments. Its absolutely true that the majority of the videobloggers out there, including yourself, are exactly this way - using videoblogging to share my life and meet new people, to make friends. Personal diaries. Its like Friendster for video and that is great, its how I met most of the friends I have now. I still wish and anticipate and can't wait to see more applied use of this medium in the world beyond making friends and showing each other their naked bodies and bodily excretions. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Typepad Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group videoblogging on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. SPONSORED LINKS Individual Fireant Typepad Use YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "videoblogging" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
Regarding US law I think this site sums things up very well: http://fairuse.stanford.edu/Copyright_and_Fair_Use_Overview/chapter12/index.html Intent is important, I think its actually 'free speech' (rather than fair use) things in your constitution which make this stuff acceptable, but it should not be relied upon as a cast iron defense. A lot comes down to how the person(s) are portrayed, being truthful and not creating misleading impressions or being libelous helps a lot. If its a public official then a further defense is if the work is in the public interest, eg exposing corrupt behaviour by public officials. Peoples rights to privacy depend on location and what about them is being revealed. In the UK if I am filming in public, I do not need to get a release from casual passers by. However if I filmed two people having an argument, I would be wise to seek a release. Public transport, hospitals etc, fall somewhere between public and private spaces, and more caution is advised than when filming on the street. You should always get permission when filming on private property, including shops. Any products that feature in your videos should be given careful consideration too, again it often comes down to what context they are used in. A quick way for videobloggers to record the consent of their subjects, is to film them giving consent. If the case is more sensitive then get it in writing. Channel 4 presents a good guide for UK law in regards this stuff, and includes examples which are probably helpful to other countries, even if the law differs a bit, the basic principals seem to be the same: http://www.channel4.com/fourdocs/about/fairness_privacy.html There was a case in the UK where someone trying to kill themselves in public was captured on the local CCTV system. He was saved but wasnt happy that the media were given the CCTV footage without his permission. I dont know the outcome of that case, but I know that he was using the Human Rights Act, which is probably the legislation that covers privacy issues in much of the EU. Steve of Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Fair use guidelines are used to determine what is okay and what is not. Its a gray area to some degree. 'Having been worried about this same question, esp here in NYC where it is almost impossible NOT to capture someone else, surprisingly, I have found that when news gathering, or creating parody or pursuing other fair use agendas, you needn't worry about it, when in public. It greatly depends on your intent and your use. I would assume Josh that someone could make the claim from looking through your videoblog that, as a whole, your videoblogging activity does not include fair use because your intent is the pursuit of personal celebrity. On Nov 19, 2005, at 9:28 AM, Josh Leo wrote: so this brings up an interesting question (that i believe has been discussed here but no solid answers have been given) I know it is different for each country, but Gabe, and Nathan Peters have both run into police/civil workers saying that they do not want to be recorded... What are our rights when it comes to filming? Who can we film in public places? why is it illegal to film certain things? etc... I know that there are perfectly valid reasons for not allowing certain things to be filmed, but i want to know the exact rights i have when it comes to someone telling me you can't film here On 11/19/05, jonny goldstein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Cops illegally frisk a Gabe, a vlogger and his friend in a public square in Amsterdam. Of course Gabe vlogged it. Great stuff: http://www.gabe.nl/2005/11/policed-state-in-amsterdam.html Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- AIDS in India: A lurking bomb. Click and help stop AIDS now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/VpTY2A/lzNLAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links -- Josh Leo joshleo.com stonefarm.blogspot.com joshspicks.blogspot.com wearethemedia.com YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group videoblogging on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
[videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
I think you are making an err if you think the overall intent of all of a persons works are the main key to whether they can invoke a 'fair use' defense for anything that might otherwise be questionable. If the law is even half-sane then it will come down to stuff like intent with that particular piece. I could have a site with 1000 videoblogs that are purely designed to make me famous, but if I videod a cop beating someone, Id be ok to use that because the purpose of that particular video was different. If I then went on to try to sell tshirts featuring the victims bloody face and my website address, maybe the victim would have grounds to sue me. Using peoples likeness for product advertising is certainly an issue, people are protected against unauthorised use of their image ( voice) for such things. Likewise I dont think Rocketboom is immune from all of these issues just by shouting 'parody parody'. Parody can be protection because it is a kind of free speech, but there are many examples of free speech that are not parody, parody is not superior to them, does not have more rights, jsut the sam. Also satire isnt parody. Even if most Rocketboom content could be classified as parody, its not a cast iron defense against non-parody items being accused of libeling someone. In general people who have decided to lead public lives are deemed to have less privacy rights on certain fronts, you can get away with being ruder about them etc. Josh's defense in this case would come down to what the case was, not enough detail here to say. If the innocent bystander was just captured walking past, what case is there to answer? Which of thir rights has been infringed? If they were captured talking to a friend about a serious medical complaint they are suffering from, then you need a defense. If this conversation was captured because they were standing next to a cop beating someone, you could defend by saying that there was public good in the newsworthy item being broadcast, and that factor overrode the privacy concerns of the bystander. Steve of Elbows --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, andrew michael baron [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The case of the stolen identity; innocent bystander sues videoblogger for internet distribution. Quote the prosecutor: Exhibit A. The defendant, Josh Leo's description of his videoblogging activity: On Nov 19, 2005, at 10:15 AM, Josh Leo wrote: I was just making friends and sharing my life (1) I = something concerning you. (2) Making friends = concerning you. (3) My life = concerning you. Food for thought, I'm just playing the opposite advocate. How would you respond? What is your fair-use defense in your particular case? Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Fair play? Video games influencing politics. Click and talk back! http://us.click.yahoo.com/eMf55D/tzNLAA/TtwFAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
On Nov 19, 2005, at 11:30 AM, Steve Watkins wrote: I think you are making an err if you think the overall intent of all of a persons works are the main key to whether they can invoke a 'fair use' defense for anything that might otherwise be questionable. I dont think its the main key. But I do think it is very important in the formula. We all have a different intent, and as you agreed before, it also comes down to intent. Since vidobloggers tend to be transparent about everything (a good thing I think) we really get to know each other. I would say, knowing Josh through this medium, his intentions with videoblogging are ultimately self-fulfilling. Thats not to say all or even most the personal videoblogs share that. In fact, I think most video bloggers are out to democratize the world for the benefit of humanity overall. If the law is even half-sane then it will come down to stuff like intent with that particular piece. I could have a site with 1000 videoblogs that are purely designed to make me famous, but if I videod a cop beating someone, Id be ok to use that because the purpose of that particular video was different. If I then went on to try to sell tshirts featuring the victims bloody face and my website address, maybe the victim would have grounds to sue me. Using peoples likeness for product advertising is certainly an issue, people are protected against unauthorised use of their image ( voice) for such things. Likewise I dont think Rocketboom is immune from all of these issues just by shouting 'parody parody'. Parody can be protection because it is a kind of free speech, but there are many examples of free speech that are not parody, parody is not superior to them, does not have more rights, jsut the sam. Also satire isnt parody. Even if most Rocketboom content could be classified as parody, its not a cast iron defense against non-parody items being accused of libeling someone. In general people who have decided to lead public lives are deemed to have less privacy rights on certain fronts, you can get away with being ruder about them etc Josh's defense in this case would come down to what the case was, not enough detail here to say. If the innocent bystander was just captured walking past, what case is there to answer? Which of thir rights has been infringed? If they were captured talking to a friend about a serious medical complaint they are suffering from, then you need a defense. If this conversation was captured because they were standing next to a cop beating someone, you could defend by saying that there was public good in the newsworthy item being broadcast, and that factor overrode the privacy concerns of the bystander. In other words, there is no blanket answer and many scenarios are very, VERY gray. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
Having strayed pretty far off this topic, I did want to say Josh, that I don't in any way mean to devalue self-fufillment - self fufillment is something that I hope all of here have as a component of what we are doing with all of this. On Nov 19, 2005, at 11:52 AM, andrew michael baron wrote: On Nov 19, 2005, at 11:30 AM, Steve Watkins wrote: I think you are making an err if you think the overall intent of all of a persons works are the main key to whether they can invoke a 'fair use' defense for anything that might otherwise be questionable. I dont think its the main key. But I do think it is very important in the formula. We all have a different intent, and as you agreed before, it also comes down to intent. Since vidobloggers tend to be transparent about everything (a good thing I think) we really get to know each other. I would say, knowing Josh through this medium, his intentions with videoblogging are ultimately self-fulfilling. Thats not to say all or even most the personal videoblogs share that. In fact, I think most video bloggers are out to democratize the world for the benefit of humanity overall. If the law is even half-sane then it will come down to stuff like intent with that particular piece. I could have a site with 1000 videoblogs that are purely designed to make me famous, but if I videod a cop beating someone, Id be ok to use that because the purpose of that particular video was different. If I then went on to try to sell tshirts featuring the victims bloody face and my website address, maybe the victim would have grounds to sue me. Using peoples likeness for product advertising is certainly an issue, people are protected against unauthorised use of their image ( voice) for such things. Likewise I dont think Rocketboom is immune from all of these issues just by shouting 'parody parody'. Parody can be protection because it is a kind of free speech, but there are many examples of free speech that are not parody, parody is not superior to them, does not have more rights, jsut the sam. Also satire isnt parody. Even if most Rocketboom content could be classified as parody, its not a cast iron defense against non-parody items being accused of libeling someone. In general people who have decided to lead public lives are deemed to have less privacy rights on certain fronts, you can get away with being ruder about them etc Josh's defense in this case would come down to what the case was, not enough detail here to say. If the innocent bystander was just captured walking past, what case is there to answer? Which of thir rights has been infringed? If they were captured talking to a friend about a serious medical complaint they are suffering from, then you need a defense. If this conversation was captured because they were standing next to a cop beating someone, you could defend by saying that there was public good in the newsworthy item being broadcast, and that factor overrode the privacy concerns of the bystander. In other words, there is no blanket answer and many scenarios are very, VERY gray. Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
I'd just like to butt in for a second and say that snooping in on this thread has been a strange experience. AMB--hostile, much? --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, Verdi [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Nov 19, 2005, at 12:12 PM, andrew michael baron wrote: Is this videoblogging list topic? Someone tell me if we have transcended, I'm not sure. Seriously. I think the discussion of why people videoblog is very on topic. On Nov 19, 2005, at 12:12 PM, andrew michael baron wrote: On Nov 19, 2005, at 1:07 PM, Verdi wrote: Maybe Josh will say so one way or another here but for me, judging by his bemused (and polite) response to your accusation about personal celebrity I'd say I wasn't taking it out of context. -Verdi I would suggest that while this in no way points to a norm, personal celebrity is very important to you and that it is a very large part of the intent behind your videoblog. Absolutely not. I started videoblogging as personal experiment to develop my story telling skills and I continue to do to document my life, to connect with others, and because I think the democratization of media is a good thing for the world. And so I believe you reject that idea which causes irrationality when there is nothing wrong with that being one of the components to what you are doing. I reject it because my purpose for videoblogging has nothing to do with my own personal celebrity. If that was the main purpose behind it I'd have to say that I've been pretty unsuccessful at it. Certainly no where near as successful as you have. I've become, like Josh said in his answer to you, basically famous to the same group of videobloggers that are just as famous in my eyes. That was one of the very funny and strange phenomenon that occurred for everyone at VloggerCon and, I'm told, at VloggerCue. Verdi Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
Ah, the themed vs. personal debate again. This is the most entertaining one so far. On a somewhat related note, the December issue of Wired asks - What's the most overhyped tech trend right now?... Robert X. Cringely (Creator and host of NerdTV) answers... There's nothing wrong with blogging or podcasting, but they feel to me a bit like CB radio. What I think will happen is that the best bloggers and podcasters will eventually be subsumed into the professional media. After all, every blogger I know is trying to find a way to generate revenue. Blogging and podcasting will eventually morph into something that looks a whole lot more like The New York Times, and the Times will come down a step or two and learn to give up a bit of its patrician nature. Bold statement to say every blogger he knows is trying to find a way to generate revenue, but I think he is correct... Hence all the sensitivity and hostility. -Matt --- http://ridertech.com http://leanbackvids.com http://vlogmap.org Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- AIDS in India: A lurking bomb. Click and help stop AIDS now. http://us.click.yahoo.com/VpTY2A/lzNLAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[videoblogging] Re: great post of police misbehavior
To take this in a slightly different direction, I thought Gabe's video was great. I would hope, at least in the USA, that if one put this video of police misconduct on one's videoblog, no matter what the overarching theme of most of the posts on that blog, that this post would be considered news, and thus no permissions would be needed from anyone to put this post up. To paraphrase blogger Jeff Jarvis, reporting is an act, and this post embodied quality reportage. Whether this report appeared on rocketboom, Josh's blog, Gabe's blog, or wherever, it seems like it should be protected speech. --- In videoblogging@yahoogroups.com, LeanBackVids.com [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, the themed vs. personal debate again. This is the most entertaining one so far. On a somewhat related note, the December issue of Wired asks - What's the most overhyped tech trend right now?... Robert X. Cringely (Creator and host of NerdTV) answers... There's nothing wrong with blogging or podcasting, but they feel to me a bit like CB radio. What I think will happen is that the best bloggers and podcasters will eventually be subsumed into the professional media. After all, every blogger I know is trying to find a way to generate revenue. Blogging and podcasting will eventually morph into something that looks a whole lot more like The New York Times, and the Times will come down a step or two and learn to give up a bit of its patrician nature. Bold statement to say every blogger he knows is trying to find a way to generate revenue, but I think he is correct... Hence all the sensitivity and hostility. -Matt --- http://ridertech.com http://leanbackvids.com http://vlogmap.org Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ~-- Get fast access to your favorite Yahoo! Groups. Make Yahoo! your home page http://us.click.yahoo.com/dpRU5A/wUILAA/yQLSAA/lBLqlB/TM ~- Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/videoblogging/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
