Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Darby Orcutt]

Maureen,
  Like many things, this comes down to very local and context-driven
decision-making, in which you need to balance a LOT of considerations. I
faced a request more than a decade ago for an extremely hardcore
pornographic film that, after careful consideration, I declined. The
faculty member was pleased with the thoughtfulness and fairness of the
process, and agreed with the ultimate rationale. As I recall, some of the
important factors were:
-This was a single film for a single course, and therefore not related to a
major part of our curriculum.
-Legally, we would need to prevent circulation to/viewing by minors. Since
many of our freshmen enter at age 17 (or even younger), and we have no
"user type" or such in our catalog system that distinguishes these
students, we would not be easily (if at all) able to ensure our compliance
with the law. (If you haven't checked your state's laws in this regard, you
will want to do so. This may clear up the question of "what is porn?" as
well as how you would need to deal with certain materials.)
-We are a state institution.  We would wish politically to tread carefully
when adding materials of this type (and certainly not use
state-appropriated, taxpayer-funded monies with which to do this).
 While we could perhaps devise a way of limiting use to those 18 years
old & above, creating a special collection, workflow, and processes unlike
those for any of our other content, the cost (and potential consequences of
error) would be great. My final decision was therefore based on cost - not
of the material, per se, but overall cost of providing the access. Just as
I might deny a request for a DVD that costs, say, $3,000, I turned down
this request.
 Again, the faculty agreed with this line of thinking. Had my
university been starting a major new program in Porn Studies, well, the
costs and risks might have seemed reasonable. Like I said, these are always
local and contextualized decisions.
 I hope this helps.
Best,
Darby

Darby Orcutt

Assistant Head, Collection Management Department

Chair, Humanities & Social Sciences Subject Team

North Carolina State University Libraries

Box 7111

Raleigh, NC  27695-7111

919/ 513-0364

dcorc...@ncsu.edu


On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Doug Poswencyk  wrote:

> What is porn?  Russ Meyer is certainly not porn.  Some of his films such
> as "Faster Pussycat, Kill Kill." are considered works of art.  They have
> been screened at many art cinemas and are part of the permanent collection
> of the Museum of Modern Art.  The same could be said about the films of
> Radley Metzger who just had a retrospective of his work at Lincoln Center.
> Then there are the early films of Fred Halsted.  Hardcore sex, yes.  But
> also art.  They too are part of the MOMA collection. Meyer's films feature
> large breasted women but these women are always strong and usually have it
> over the guys.  His films can also be violent but in the end good always
> triumphs.  i think to not include these films is nothing more than pure
> censorship.
>
> On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Stanton, Kim  wrote:
>
>>  We have purchased a few items per faculty request for instruction/
>> scholarly research.
>>
>>
>>  The only issue we have had (and just once)  was someone checking out an
>> item without understanding what it was. We now prominently add a note to
>> our public catalog record that prominently says "Adult content, graphic
>> sex." or whatever is appropriate. Other than that, these items are
>> treated like all other materials in the collection. We have closed stacks,
>> but circulate for use outside of the library.
>>
>>
>>  Good luck, ​
>>
>>
>>  Kim Stanton
>>
>> Head, Media Library
>>
>> University of North Texas
>>
>> kim.stan...@unt.edu
>>
>> --
>> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu <
>> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> on behalf of Gisele Genevieve
>> Tanasse 
>> *Sent:* Friday, November 14, 2014 2:16 PM
>> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?
>>
>>  I have purchased porn in response to instructional requests (most of
>> which have come from our Gender and Women's Studies department).  I have
>> even repaired a pornographic VHS tape for an instructor.
>>
>>  Much like racist cartoons, Nazi propaganda and most reality TV,
>> inclusion of porn in the library collection should not be interpreted as a
>> stamp of approval on the content.  I recommend giving a courtesy head's up
>> to your acquisitions/tech services staff and be sure you are ready to
>> respond, citing intellectual freedom/instructional freedom, to any
>> complainers.  You might also consider letting whoever you report to know in
>> advance, so they are also prepared in case you do receive a complaint.  If
>> you have viewing stations, I would recommend working with your staff to
>> identify the best location to seat someone studying porn in order to reduce
>> t

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Doug Poswencyk]

What was the film? What kind of university was it?  A Catholic one? What
does extremely hardcore pornographic mean?  I can see people worried about
a public library (and I think that isn't good librarianship anyway) but a
college?  This is pure censorship and not good librarianship.  Sorry to
sound so harsh but this puritanical approach really burns my ass.  it is
our job to get materials to the people we serve.  And not just the majority
or what the majority thinks we should provide.  I think you are dead wrong
Darby.

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Darby Orcutt  wrote:

> Maureen,
>   Like many things, this comes down to very local and context-driven
> decision-making, in which you need to balance a LOT of considerations. I
> faced a request more than a decade ago for an extremely hardcore
> pornographic film that, after careful consideration, I declined. The
> faculty member was pleased with the thoughtfulness and fairness of the
> process, and agreed with the ultimate rationale. As I recall, some of the
> important factors were:
> -This was a single film for a single course, and therefore not related to
> a major part of our curriculum.
> -Legally, we would need to prevent circulation to/viewing by minors. Since
> many of our freshmen enter at age 17 (or even younger), and we have no
> "user type" or such in our catalog system that distinguishes these
> students, we would not be easily (if at all) able to ensure our compliance
> with the law. (If you haven't checked your state's laws in this regard, you
> will want to do so. This may clear up the question of "what is porn?" as
> well as how you would need to deal with certain materials.)
> -We are a state institution.  We would wish politically to tread carefully
> when adding materials of this type (and certainly not use
> state-appropriated, taxpayer-funded monies with which to do this).
>  While we could perhaps devise a way of limiting use to those 18 years
> old & above, creating a special collection, workflow, and processes unlike
> those for any of our other content, the cost (and potential consequences of
> error) would be great. My final decision was therefore based on cost - not
> of the material, per se, but overall cost of providing the access. Just as
> I might deny a request for a DVD that costs, say, $3,000, I turned down
> this request.
>  Again, the faculty agreed with this line of thinking. Had my
> university been starting a major new program in Porn Studies, well, the
> costs and risks might have seemed reasonable. Like I said, these are always
> local and contextualized decisions.
>  I hope this helps.
> Best,
> Darby
>
> Darby Orcutt
>
> Assistant Head, Collection Management Department
>
> Chair, Humanities & Social Sciences Subject Team
>
> North Carolina State University Libraries
>
> Box 7111
>
> Raleigh, NC  27695-7111
>
> 919/ 513-0364
>
> dcorc...@ncsu.edu
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Doug Poswencyk 
> wrote:
>
>> What is porn?  Russ Meyer is certainly not porn.  Some of his films such
>> as "Faster Pussycat, Kill Kill." are considered works of art.  They have
>> been screened at many art cinemas and are part of the permanent collection
>> of the Museum of Modern Art.  The same could be said about the films of
>> Radley Metzger who just had a retrospective of his work at Lincoln Center.
>> Then there are the early films of Fred Halsted.  Hardcore sex, yes.  But
>> also art.  They too are part of the MOMA collection. Meyer's films feature
>> large breasted women but these women are always strong and usually have it
>> over the guys.  His films can also be violent but in the end good always
>> triumphs.  i think to not include these films is nothing more than pure
>> censorship.
>>
>> On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Stanton, Kim 
>> wrote:
>>
>>>  We have purchased a few items per faculty request for instruction/
>>> scholarly research.
>>>
>>>
>>>  The only issue we have had (and just once)  was someone checking out
>>> an item without understanding what it was. We now prominently add a note to
>>> our public catalog record that prominently says "Adult content, graphic
>>> sex." or whatever is appropriate. Other than that, these items are
>>> treated like all other materials in the collection. We have closed stacks,
>>> but circulate for use outside of the library.
>>>
>>>
>>>  Good luck, ​
>>>
>>>
>>>  Kim Stanton
>>>
>>> Head, Media Library
>>>
>>> University of North Texas
>>>
>>> kim.stan...@unt.edu
>>>
>>> --
>>> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu <
>>> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu> on behalf of Gisele Genevieve
>>> Tanasse 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, November 14, 2014 2:16 PM
>>> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>>> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?
>>>
>>>  I have purchased porn in response to instructional requests (most of
>>> which have come from our Gender and Women's Studies department).  I have
>>> even repai

[Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[dgurl...@soundviewmediapartners.com]

This is a very interesting subject worth exploring, I feel, as there is a fine 
line that can become quite blurred in relation to "what is porn and what is 
not". I find the subject of great interest as I am involved in two films that 
have, at times, become caught in the web if such discussions, and I find it 
very difficult to navigate. The films are:



Semi Colin

"Semi Colin" is a beautiful and simplistic look into the eyes of an artist, 
facing the morality of his passion, his art and his compulsion. The film 
explores the life and work of a British erotic illustrator who firmly believes 
that his drawings are art and not pornographic. Presented as a monologue, the 
debate roars into the forefront and the artist delves into his reasoning. 
http://soundviewmediapartners.com/?p=993



The Lovers' Guide

This is quite a different conundrum. The series, which is approx. 12 hours 
(carved into two 5-disc collection), is quite graphic as it presents by 
chapters sexual instruction across a broad range of subjects. It has been 
reviewed wonderfully, but also censored by many distributors due its graphic 
nature. It is, however, presented by Doctors and experts, and since this is 
documentary/instruction should not be classified as porn. 
http://soundviewmediapartners.com/?s=lovers



Both of the above are available on Amazon. Lovers' Guide specifically is a top 
selling series in the special interest genre at #66 http://amzn.to/12BpovN. I 
do find it weird that some distributors including Baker & Taylor have chosen 
not to carry the series.



I would be most interested in hearing thoughts about these products.



Dan Gurlitz

Soundview Media Partners LLC

917-402-0460 / dgurl...@soundviewmediapartners.com

www.soundviewmediapartners.com / www.facebook.com/SoundviewMediaPartners

www.linkedin.com/in/dangurlitz





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Today's Topics:



   1. Re: pornographic films in the Library collection? (Darby Orcutt)

   2. Re: pornographic films in the Library collection? (Doug Poswencyk)





--



Message: 1

Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 10:58:00 -0500

From: Darby Orcutt mailto:dcorc...@ncsu.edu>>

Subject: Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

To: "videolib@lists.berkeley.edu" 
mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>>

Message-ID:

  
mailto:cal08p8dkdqe64bxb66haz6k3mm7z1o7_g9dxhbe3edyvhfh...@mail.gmail.com>>

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"



Maureen,

  Like many things, this comes down to very local and context-driven 
decision-making, in which you need to balance a LOT of considerations. I faced 
a request more than a decade ago for an extremely hardcore pornographic film 
that, after careful consideration, I declined. The faculty member was pleased 
with the thoughtfulness and fairness of the process, and agreed with the 
ultimate rationale. As I recall, some of the important factors were:

-This was a single film for a single course, and therefore not related to a 
major part of our curriculum.

-Legally, we would need to prevent circulation to/viewing by minors. Since many 
of our freshmen enter at age 17 (or even younger), and we have no "user type" 
or such in our catalog system that distinguishes these students, we would not 
be easily (if at all) able to ensure our compliance with the law. (If you 
haven't checked your state's laws in this regard, you will want to do so. This 
may clear up the question of "what is porn?" as well as how you would need to 
deal with certain materials.) -We are a state institution.  We would wish 
politically to tread carefully when adding materials of this type (and 
certainly not use state-appropriated, taxpayer-funded monies with which to do 
this).

 While we could perhaps devise a way of limiting use to those 18 years old 
& above, creating a special collection, workflow, and processes unlike those 
for any of our other content, the cost (and potential consequences of

error) would be great. My final d

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Herfurth, Sharon]

Um, whatever happened to “Freedom to View.”
http://www.ala.org/vrt/professionalresources/vrtresources/freedomtoview

Sharon Herfurth
Office of Programs & Partnerships
Austin Public Library
Austin, TX


From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Doug Poswencyk
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 10:45 AM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

What was the film? What kind of university was it?  A Catholic one? What does 
extremely hardcore pornographic mean?  I can see people worried about a public 
library (and I think that isn't good librarianship anyway) but a college?  This 
is pure censorship and not good librarianship.  Sorry to sound so harsh but 
this puritanical approach really burns my ass.  it is our job to get materials 
to the people we serve.  And not just the majority or what the majority thinks 
we should provide.  I think you are dead wrong Darby.

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Darby Orcutt 
mailto:dcorc...@ncsu.edu>> wrote:
Maureen,
  Like many things, this comes down to very local and context-driven 
decision-making, in which you need to balance a LOT of considerations. I faced 
a request more than a decade ago for an extremely hardcore pornographic film 
that, after careful consideration, I declined. The faculty member was pleased 
with the thoughtfulness and fairness of the process, and agreed with the 
ultimate rationale. As I recall, some of the important factors were:
-This was a single film for a single course, and therefore not related to a 
major part of our curriculum.
-Legally, we would need to prevent circulation to/viewing by minors. Since many 
of our freshmen enter at age 17 (or even younger), and we have no "user type" 
or such in our catalog system that distinguishes these students, we would not 
be easily (if at all) able to ensure our compliance with the law. (If you 
haven't checked your state's laws in this regard, you will want to do so. This 
may clear up the question of "what is porn?" as well as how you would need to 
deal with certain materials.)
-We are a state institution.  We would wish politically to tread carefully when 
adding materials of this type (and certainly not use state-appropriated, 
taxpayer-funded monies with which to do this).
 While we could perhaps devise a way of limiting use to those 18 years old 
& above, creating a special collection, workflow, and processes unlike those 
for any of our other content, the cost (and potential consequences of error) 
would be great. My final decision was therefore based on cost - not of the 
material, per se, but overall cost of providing the access. Just as I might 
deny a request for a DVD that costs, say, $3,000, I turned down this request.
 Again, the faculty agreed with this line of thinking. Had my university 
been starting a major new program in Porn Studies, well, the costs and risks 
might have seemed reasonable. Like I said, these are always local and 
contextualized decisions.
 I hope this helps.
Best,
Darby
Darby Orcutt
Assistant Head, Collection Management Department
Chair, Humanities & Social Sciences Subject Team
North Carolina State University Libraries
Box 7111
Raleigh, NC  27695-7111
919/ 513-0364
dcorc...@ncsu.edu


On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Doug Poswencyk 
mailto:doug8...@gmail.com>> wrote:
What is porn?  Russ Meyer is certainly not porn.  Some of his films such as 
"Faster Pussycat, Kill Kill." are considered works of art.  They have been 
screened at many art cinemas and are part of the permanent collection of the 
Museum of Modern Art.  The same could be said about the films of Radley Metzger 
who just had a retrospective of his work at Lincoln Center.  Then there are the 
early films of Fred Halsted.  Hardcore sex, yes.  But also art.  They too are 
part of the MOMA collection. Meyer's films feature large breasted women but 
these women are always strong and usually have it over the guys.  His films can 
also be violent but in the end good always triumphs.  i think to not include 
these films is nothing more than pure censorship.

On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 2:10 PM, Stanton, Kim 
mailto:kim.stan...@unt.edu>> wrote:

We have purchased a few items per faculty request for instruction/ scholarly 
research.



The only issue we have had (and just once)  was someone checking out an item 
without understanding what it was. We now prominently add a note to our public 
catalog record that prominently says "Adult content, graphic sex." or whatever 
is appropriate. Other than that, these items are treated like all other 
materials in the collection. We have closed stacks, but circulate for use 
outside of the library.



Good luck, ​



Kim Stanton

Head, Media Library

University of North Texas

kim.stan...@unt.edu


From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Catherine Lee]

Hello All,

I have been a lurker on this list for quite a while. I feel compelled to
make a response now...to offer support for Darby and to express my
appreciation for the thoughtful comments of Gisele and Darby in response to
a legitimately challenging question by Maureen. "Good librarianship" also
means being cognizant of the morals, politics, and overall climate of your
institution and broader community.

When I read the initial posting, I wondered what my response would be if I
were faced with that situation. I'm not at a UC Berkeley, NC State, or UNT.
I'm at a community college. Such a purchase--especially with state
funds--would come under public scrutiny. Since I am not faced with this
scenario, I don't have to make the decision...but I would hope that the
decision I ended up making would not be met with accusations from my peers
and colleagues of censorship or of being puritanical.

Catherine Lee
Cape Fear Community College
Wilmington, NC
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Doug Poswencyk]

But it is.  Besides, we don't even know what the film is!

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Catherine Lee 
wrote:

> Hello All,
>
> I have been a lurker on this list for quite a while. I feel compelled to
> make a response now...to offer support for Darby and to express my
> appreciation for the thoughtful comments of Gisele and Darby in response to
> a legitimately challenging question by Maureen. "Good librarianship" also
> means being cognizant of the morals, politics, and overall climate of your
> institution and broader community.
>
> When I read the initial posting, I wondered what my response would be if I
> were faced with that situation. I'm not at a UC Berkeley, NC State, or UNT.
> I'm at a community college. Such a purchase--especially with state
> funds--would come under public scrutiny. Since I am not faced with this
> scenario, I don't have to make the decision...but I would hope that the
> decision I ended up making would not be met with accusations from my peers
> and colleagues of censorship or of being puritanical.
>
> Catherine Lee
> Cape Fear Community College
> Wilmington, NC
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Darby Orcutt]

Catherine,
 Thank you for your support, which I can only hope mirrors the majority
of the videolib community.

  If it were unclear to anyone, I was addressing a real-life situation
in which I was recognizing a need for my institution to:
1) comply with the law, and
2) adhere to our budget.

  I neither provide illegal content (e.g., child pornography) upon
request, nor do I purchase every item that is ever requested, regardless of
cost; if these things make me a "censor" or at odds with "Freedom to View,"
then I expect I am in overwhelmingly good company among librarians.
 To be clear, when I say that such a decision is "local and
context-driven," I mean simply that each institution and its needs are
ultimately unique. No institution can provide everything, so each selector
needs to exercise her best judgement in weighing the importance of any
particular content relative to cost for her own institution.
 If it matters, the scenario I mentioned was at a public university and
the request was for a XXX-rated film.
 Again, the requester also AGREED with my decision and rationale.

 I think this community is at its best when we can have open and
respectful dialogue grounded in support of one another's actual
professional work.

Best,
Darby

Darby Orcutt

Assistant Head, Collection Management Department

Chair, Humanities & Social Sciences Subject Team

North Carolina State University Libraries

Box 7111

Raleigh, NC  27695-7111

919/ 513-0364

dcorc...@ncsu.edu





On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Doug Poswencyk  wrote:

> But it is.  Besides, we don't even know what the film is!
>
> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Catherine Lee  > wrote:
>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I have been a lurker on this list for quite a while. I feel compelled to
>> make a response now...to offer support for Darby and to express my
>> appreciation for the thoughtful comments of Gisele and Darby in response to
>> a legitimately challenging question by Maureen. "Good librarianship" also
>> means being cognizant of the morals, politics, and overall climate of your
>> institution and broader community.
>>
>> When I read the initial posting, I wondered what my response would be if
>> I were faced with that situation. I'm not at a UC Berkeley, NC State, or
>> UNT. I'm at a community college. Such a purchase--especially with state
>> funds--would come under public scrutiny. Since I am not faced with this
>> scenario, I don't have to make the decision...but I would hope that the
>> decision I ended up making would not be met with accusations from my peers
>> and colleagues of censorship or of being puritanical.
>>
>> Catherine Lee
>> Cape Fear Community College
>> Wilmington, NC
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
>> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>> producers and distributors.
>>
>>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Dennis Doros]

I have to say we had real discussions a few years ago with a very fine
academic (and good friend) about releasing a DVD of historic pornography
that was being taught in her course and other people's courses. I was
really interested in it until the archivist holding the collection
mentioned the possibility that with the a history of exploitation of actors
in these films (not always, but frequently), do we want to be exploiting
them again? There's not an easy answer.

I also saw a presentation of pornography by the esteemed Linda Williams
that was excellent and the first few films were fairly quaint or laughingly
bad. But the last one was truly erotic and it made a lot of people
uncomfortable. At what point does academic interest turn into voyeurism or
worse, harassment? (One professor in Arizona lost his job when he taught a
film pornography class.) I'll defend her right to show it 100% and I'm
really glad for the experience that made me think so deeply about the
meaning of academic study, but again there's no easy answer.

This exploitation discussion came up recently with Belle Knox (the Duke
student) this year and each case is so different. But without knowing the
history of each film, I think you can have an epic pros and cons panel on
carrying such titles and whether you're supporting the pornography
business. Frankly, what I've seen in this string of emails is exactly what
I would have expected -- great reasons for both sides of the equation.

And if you say there should be complete academic freedom, what the heck do
you do when a professor wants to buy a "real" snuff film?


Best regards,
Dennis Doros
Milestone Film & Video
PO Box 128 / Harrington Park, NJ 07640
Phone: 201-767-3117 / Fax: 201-767-3035 / Email: milefi...@gmail.com

Visit our main website!  www.milestonefilms.com
Visit our new websites!  www.mspresents.com, www.portraitofjason.com, www.
shirleyclarkefilms.com,
To see or download our 2014 Video Catalog, click here

!


Support "Milestone Film" on Facebook
 and Twitter
!


On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Doug Poswencyk  wrote:

> But it is.  Besides, we don't even know what the film is!
>
> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Catherine Lee  > wrote:
>
>> Hello All,
>>
>> I have been a lurker on this list for quite a while. I feel compelled to
>> make a response now...to offer support for Darby and to express my
>> appreciation for the thoughtful comments of Gisele and Darby in response to
>> a legitimately challenging question by Maureen. "Good librarianship" also
>> means being cognizant of the morals, politics, and overall climate of your
>> institution and broader community.
>>
>> When I read the initial posting, I wondered what my response would be if
>> I were faced with that situation. I'm not at a UC Berkeley, NC State, or
>> UNT. I'm at a community college. Such a purchase--especially with state
>> funds--would come under public scrutiny. Since I am not faced with this
>> scenario, I don't have to make the decision...but I would hope that the
>> decision I ended up making would not be met with accusations from my peers
>> and colleagues of censorship or of being puritanical.
>>
>> Catherine Lee
>> Cape Fear Community College
>> Wilmington, NC
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
>> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>> producers and distributors.
>>
>>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Doug Poswencyk]

Darby,

Please do not take my comments personally.  I am truly sorry if I offended
you but I stand by my comments.  Of course you would not buy any child
pornography.  None of us would.  I would still like to know the title.  The
professor had a good reason for using it so that makes it a justifiable
purchase.  Too often we worry what the majority will think but ignore
individuals.  I deal with situations like this all the time as I am now at
a public library but I try to remain open minded in an attempt to serve
everyone.  There may be hell to pay but that is what being a librarian is
all about.  Maybe the requester was just being polite to you and did not
want to make your job anymore difficult.  I still think this is a case of
censorship and am very disappointed in the other librarians who agree with
you.  This is a respectful discussion.  I just can't support what you did.
That's all.  Who knows, maybe I will post something here that others
disagree with vehemently. That's OK.  I won't take it personally and
perhaps even rethink it.  I make a lot of mistakes so I am very open for
criticism.  Thanks for listening.

Doug

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 2:24 PM, Darby Orcutt  wrote:

> Catherine,
>  Thank you for your support, which I can only hope mirrors the
> majority of the videolib community.
>
>   If it were unclear to anyone, I was addressing a real-life situation
> in which I was recognizing a need for my institution to:
> 1) comply with the law, and
> 2) adhere to our budget.
>
>   I neither provide illegal content (e.g., child pornography) upon
> request, nor do I purchase every item that is ever requested, regardless of
> cost; if these things make me a "censor" or at odds with "Freedom to View,"
> then I expect I am in overwhelmingly good company among librarians.
>  To be clear, when I say that such a decision is "local and
> context-driven," I mean simply that each institution and its needs are
> ultimately unique. No institution can provide everything, so each selector
> needs to exercise her best judgement in weighing the importance of any
> particular content relative to cost for her own institution.
>  If it matters, the scenario I mentioned was at a public university
> and the request was for a XXX-rated film.
>  Again, the requester also AGREED with my decision and rationale.
>
>  I think this community is at its best when we can have open and
> respectful dialogue grounded in support of one another's actual
> professional work.
>
> Best,
> Darby
>
> Darby Orcutt
>
> Assistant Head, Collection Management Department
>
> Chair, Humanities & Social Sciences Subject Team
>
> North Carolina State University Libraries
>
> Box 7111
>
> Raleigh, NC  27695-7111
>
> 919/ 513-0364
>
> dcorc...@ncsu.edu
>
>
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Doug Poswencyk 
> wrote:
>
>> But it is.  Besides, we don't even know what the film is!
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Catherine Lee <
>> catherinelee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> I have been a lurker on this list for quite a while. I feel compelled to
>>> make a response now...to offer support for Darby and to express my
>>> appreciation for the thoughtful comments of Gisele and Darby in response to
>>> a legitimately challenging question by Maureen. "Good librarianship" also
>>> means being cognizant of the morals, politics, and overall climate of your
>>> institution and broader community.
>>>
>>> When I read the initial posting, I wondered what my response would be if
>>> I were faced with that situation. I'm not at a UC Berkeley, NC State, or
>>> UNT. I'm at a community college. Such a purchase--especially with state
>>> funds--would come under public scrutiny. Since I am not faced with this
>>> scenario, I don't have to make the decision...but I would hope that the
>>> decision I ended up making would not be met with accusations from my peers
>>> and colleagues of censorship or of being puritanical.
>>>
>>> Catherine Lee
>>> Cape Fear Community College
>>> Wilmington, NC
>>>
>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
>>> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>>> producers and distributors.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
>> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Elizabeth McMahon]

Darby,

I noticed that your university has an undergraduate department in Women's
and Gender Studies, and yet that you have no Barbara Hammer, Beth B., or
Carolee Schneeman, to name the most prominent of queer filmmakers, whose
films contain explicit sexual activity, and are as far from porn as you
could possibly get. I am edified to see you have some Su Friedrich in your
collection. You don't have any Wakefield Poole, either. Such a shame and
disappointment for that department.

This xxx-rated film, had you secured a screener to view? Or did you condemn
and censor something you hadn't seen? No offense, but professionally, I
consider that unconscionable. And there was a legitimate request from a
professor for his/her pursuit of inquiry in the class.

That canard of "taxpayer's money" is disingenuous. And a red herring. It
boils my blood. It's an easy excuse to cover up inherently censorious
behavior. This and Maureen's kneejerk response to reject the professors'
requests seems to me personally motivated. There's a reason librarians have
been described as pusillanimous over the decades. It takes backbone to
stand up for the ideals of the profession and defend them with ferocity.

And if public library ILS's can put restrictions on age appropriate
material, why cannot an academic library?

If the film had a structural function in scholarly inquiry, that is all the
reason you need for its justification in the collection. Period. End of
debate. Unless it was $3,000. That would of course be a reason to reject
purchasing the title.

What was the title?

And again, the films Maureen listed are tame. And have stood the test of
time. They are not pornographic. Throw in some Chesty Morgan and Ilsa the
SS Officer, and you have a peak into my personal collection. And items that
are found in libraries. Check Worldcat, if you need back up ammo.

And for your information, NYPL has a renowned collection of porn in its
Manuscript and Archives collection. Really, about the only things that
should be off limits, without exception, for collection development are
child pornography and bestial pornography.

Regards,
Elizabeth

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:58 AM, Darby Orcutt  wrote:

> Maureen,
>   Like many things, this comes down to very local and context-driven
> decision-making, in which you need to balance a LOT of considerations. I
> faced a request more than a decade ago for an extremely hardcore
> pornographic film that, after careful consideration, I declined. The
> faculty member was pleased with the thoughtfulness and fairness of the
> process, and agreed with the ultimate rationale. As I recall, some of the
> important factors were:
> -This was a single film for a single course, and therefore not related to
> a major part of our curriculum.
> -Legally, we would need to prevent circulation to/viewing by minors. Since
> many of our freshmen enter at age 17 (or even younger), and we have no
> "user type" or such in our catalog system that distinguishes these
> students, we would not be easily (if at all) able to ensure our compliance
> with the law. (If you haven't checked your state's laws in this regard, you
> will want to do so. This may clear up the question of "what is porn?" as
> well as how you would need to deal with certain materials.)
> -We are a state institution.  We would wish politically to tread carefully
> when adding materials of this type (and certainly not use
> state-appropriated, taxpayer-funded monies with which to do this).
>  While we could perhaps devise a way of limiting use to those 18 years
> old & above, creating a special collection, workflow, and processes unlike
> those for any of our other content, the cost (and potential consequences of
> error) would be great. My final decision was therefore based on cost - not
> of the material, per se, but overall cost of providing the access. Just as
> I might deny a request for a DVD that costs, say, $3,000, I turned down
> this request.
>  Again, the faculty agreed with this line of thinking. Had my
> university been starting a major new program in Porn Studies, well, the
> costs and risks might have seemed reasonable. Like I said, these are always
> local and contextualized decisions.
>  I hope this helps.
> Best,
> Darby
>
> Darby Orcutt
>
> Assistant Head, Collection Management Department
>
> Chair, Humanities & Social Sciences Subject Team
>
> North Carolina State University Libraries
>
> Box 7111
>
> Raleigh, NC  27695-7111
>
> 919/ 513-0364
>
> dcorc...@ncsu.edu
>
>
> On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 4:44 PM, Doug Poswencyk 
> wrote:
>
>> What is porn?  Russ Meyer is certainly not porn.  Some of his films such
>> as "Faster Pussycat, Kill Kill." are considered works of art.  They have
>> been screened at many art cinemas and are part of the permanent collection
>> of the Museum of Modern Art.  The same could be said about the films of
>> Radley Metzger who just had a retrospective of his work at Lincoln Center.
>> Then there are the ea

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Matt Ball]

As usual, videolib provides a lively forum for discussion, and this one in 
particular is fascinating.  But I must say,  I'm quite disturbed by the 
vitriolic tone of some of the responses as well as the judging and the public 
bullying that Maureen
and Darby are having to endure.  Am I the only one?

Matt


___
Matt Ball
Director, Woodruff Library
Pace Academy
966 W. Paces Ferry Rd.
Atlanta, GA  30327
mb...@paceacademy.org

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Sarah E. McCleskey]

Hi Matt,
You are not the only one!
Best,
Sarah

Sarah E. McCleskey
Head of Access Services, Film and Media
112 Axinn Library, 123 Hofstra University
Hempstead, NY 11549
sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu
516-463-5076 (phone)
516-463-4309 (fax)


From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Matt Ball
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 4:18 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Cc: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

As usual, videolib provides a lively forum for discussion, and this one in 
particular is fascinating.  But I must say,  I'm quite disturbed by the 
vitriolic tone of some of the responses as well as the judging and the public 
bullying that Maureen and Darby are having to endure.  Am I the only one?

Matt

___
Matt Ball
Director, Woodruff Library
Pace Academy
966 W. Paces Ferry Rd.
Atlanta, GA  30327
mb...@paceacademy.org

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Susan Albrecht]

No, Matt, you are decidedly not alone.
Stating opinions is one thing; attacking is another.  It’s not open dialogue 
when someone is slammed and hit with flat-out judgments.  Unless the goal is to 
get a videolib member to never post again, perhaps a gentler, more inquisitive 
approach would be better?!
Susan
Susan Albrecht
Library Media Acquisitions Manager
Graduate Fellowship Advisor
Wabash College Lilly Library
765-361-6216 (acquisitions)
765-361-6297 (fellowships)
765-361-6295 fax
albre...@wabash.edu
www.facebook.com/wabashcollegelibrary.films
http://pinterest.com/wabashcolllib/

***
"If you choose not to decide, you still have made a choice." --Neil Peart
***

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Matt Ball
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 4:18 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Cc: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

As usual, videolib provides a lively forum for discussion, and this one in 
particular is fascinating.  But I must say,  I'm quite disturbed by the 
vitriolic tone of some of the responses as well as the judging and the public 
bullying that Maureen and Darby are having to endure.  Am I the only one?

Matt

___
Matt Ball
Director, Woodruff Library
Pace Academy
966 W. Paces Ferry Rd.
Atlanta, GA  30327
mb...@paceacademy.org

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Mark Pompelia]

I'm a heretofore lurker on VIDEOLIB but must proclaim that I stand fully
with Doug and Elizabeth and find it more dismaying that their insightful
comments are being interpreted as vitriol and bullying. What part of
"Please don't take my comments personally. I am truly sorry if I offended
you" is vitriolic??

You know, we're the first group to complain about censorship when it comes
from the government or the public, but heaven forbid we should recognize it
in our own actions. From my own point of view at a preeminent art school,
we thrive on challenging material. I can't imagine a library not serving in
this role.

Mark

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 4:32 PM, Sarah E. McCleskey <
sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu> wrote:

>   Hi Matt,
>
> You are not the only one!
>
> Best,
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
> Sarah E. McCleskey
>
> Head of Access Services, Film and Media
>
> 112 Axinn Library, 123 Hofstra University
>
> Hempstead, NY 11549
>
> sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu
>
> 516-463-5076 (phone)
>
> 516-463-4309 (fax)
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] *On Behalf Of *Matt Ball
> *Sent:* Monday, November 17, 2014 4:18 PM
> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Cc:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?
>
>
>
> As usual, videolib provides a lively forum for discussion, and this one in
> particular is fascinating.  But I must say,  I'm quite disturbed by the
> vitriolic tone of some of the responses as well as the judging and the
> public bullying that Maureen and Darby are having to endure.  Am I the only
> one?
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Matt Ball
>
> Director, Woodruff Library
>
> Pace Academy
>
> 966 W. Paces Ferry Rd.
>
> Atlanta, GA  30327
>
> mb...@paceacademy.org
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>


-- 
*MARK POMPELIA*
Visual + Material Resource Librarian
*Fleet Library at Rhode Island School of Design*
library.risd.edu

401-709-5935

*Art Libraries Society of North America*
Treasurer, 2014-16
Materials Special Interest Group: material|resource

VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Cristella Bond]

Hi Matt,

I'm feeling the same. Thanks for saying so.

Cristella Bond
Information Services Librarian
Anderson Public Library
111 E. 12th Street
Anderson, IN  46016
(765) 641-2456


-Original Message-
From: "Sarah E. McCleskey" 
To: "videolib@lists.berkeley.edu" 
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:32:44 +
Subject: Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

Hi Matt,

You are not the only one!

Best,

Sarah

 

Sarah E. McCleskey
Head of Access Services, Film and Media
112 Axinn Library, 123 Hofstra University
Hempstead, NY 11549
sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu
516-463-5076 (phone)
516-463-4309 (fax)
 

 

From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Matt Ball
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 4:18 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Cc: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?
 

As usual, videolib provides a lively forum for discussion, and this one in 
particular is fascinating.  But I must say,  I'm quite disturbed by the 
vitriolic tone of some of the responses as well as the judging and the 
public bullying that Maureen and Darby are having to endure.  Am I the only 
one?
 
Matt
 

___
Matt Ball
Director, Woodruff Library
Pace Academy
966 W. Paces Ferry Rd.
Atlanta, GA  30327
mb...@paceacademy.org
 VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Doug Poswencyk]

BULLSHIT  I did not attack Darby or Maureen personally.  I attacked
what they did.  What they said.  They were wrong.  If you don't want to
have discussions then don't bother hanging around here.   You Matt are
attacking me and I am sure you would not have the balls to say that to my
face.  I am not a bully at all.  I am just stating my opinion.  If that's
not OK then let's just not even have this conversation or any on here at
all.  Librarians are the worst of censors.  And they do it all the time.
This should be an issue that is dear to everyone in the profession.  It
should not be tolerated.  We should be here to support in any way we can
people who stick their necks out and make the right decision.  Not to
support the wrong decisions.  I think that in both cases neither Maureen or
Darby would have received any grief if they made the purchases.

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Cristella Bond 
wrote:

> Hi Matt,
>
> I'm feeling the same. Thanks for saying so.
>
> Cristella Bond
> Information Services Librarian
> Anderson Public Library 
> 111 E. 12th Street
> Anderson, IN  46016
> (765) 641-2456
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Sarah E. McCleskey" 
> To: "videolib@lists.berkeley.edu" 
> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:32:44 +
> Subject: Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?
>
>  Hi Matt,
>  You are not the only one!
>  Best,
>  Sarah
>
>  Sarah E. McCleskey
>  Head of Access Services, Film and Media
>  112 Axinn Library, 123 Hofstra University
>  Hempstead, NY 11549
>  sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu
>  516-463-5076 (phone)
>  516-463-4309 (fax)
>
>
>  * From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] *On Behalf Of *Matt Ball
> *Sent:* Monday, November 17, 2014 4:18 PM
> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Cc:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?
>
>  As usual, videolib provides a lively forum for discussion, and this one
> in particular is fascinating.  But I must say,  I'm quite disturbed by the
> vitriolic tone of some of the responses as well as the judging and the
> public bullying that Maureen and Darby are having to endure.  Am I the only
> one?
>
>  Matt
>
>  ___
>  Matt Ball
>  Director, Woodruff Library
>  Pace Academy
>  966 W. Paces Ferry Rd.
>  Atlanta, GA  30327
>  mb...@paceacademy.org
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
> producers and distributors.
>
>
VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Anthony Anderson]

I am not sure that I could agree with the thesis that librarians are “the worst 
of censors” and “do it all the time.” This may be often the case in certain 
politically repressive cultures (North Korea?) but I don’t believe that it is 
necessary the standard norm in American academic libraries. Besides other 
responsibilities here at USC, I am also the selector for Holocaust Studies. I 
felt myself distinctly queasy about ordering some Holocaust denial books for 
the collection, but the books did get ordered.

In any case, claiming that another colleague’s opinion is categorically “wrong” 
is a highly subjective judgment. Or so I think.

Best regards,
Anthony

***
Anthony E. Anderson
Assistant Director, Doheny Memorial Library
University of Southern California
Los Angeles, CA 90089-0182
(213) 740-1190   antho...@usc.edu
"Wind, regen, zon, of kou,
Albert Cuyp ik hou van jou."





From: videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] On Behalf Of Doug Poswencyk
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 3:34 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

BULLSHIT  I did not attack Darby or Maureen personally.  I attacked what 
they did.  What they said.  They were wrong.  If you don't want to have 
discussions then don't bother hanging around here.   You Matt are attacking me 
and I am sure you would not have the balls to say that to my face.  I am not a 
bully at all.  I am just stating my opinion.  If that's not OK then let's just 
not even have this conversation or any on here at all.  Librarians are the 
worst of censors.  And they do it all the time.  This should be an issue that 
is dear to everyone in the profession.  It should not be tolerated.  We should 
be here to support in any way we can people who stick their necks out and make 
the right decision.  Not to support the wrong decisions.  I think that in both 
cases neither Maureen or Darby would have received any grief if they made the 
purchases.

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Cristella Bond 
mailto:cb...@andersonlibrary.net>> wrote:
Hi Matt,

I'm feeling the same. Thanks for saying so.

Cristella Bond
Information Services Librarian
Anderson Public Library
111 E. 12th Street
Anderson, IN  46016
(765) 641-2456


-Original Message-
From: "Sarah E. McCleskey" 
mailto:sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu>>
To: "videolib@lists.berkeley.edu" 
mailto:videolib@lists.berkeley.edu>>
Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:32:44 +
Subject: Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

Hi Matt,
You are not the only one!
Best,
Sarah

Sarah E. McCleskey
Head of Access Services, Film and Media
112 Axinn Library, 123 Hofstra University
Hempstead, NY 11549
sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu
516-463-5076 (phone)
516-463-4309 (fax)


From: 
videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu 
[mailto:videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu]
 On Behalf Of Matt Ball
Sent: Monday, November 17, 2014 4:18 PM
To: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Cc: videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
Subject: Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

As usual, videolib provides a lively forum for discussion, and this one in 
particular is fascinating.  But I must say,  I'm quite disturbed by the 
vitriolic tone of some of the responses as well as the judging and the public 
bullying that Maureen and Darby are having to endure.  Am I the only one?

Matt

___
Matt Ball
Director, Woodruff Library
Pace Academy
966 W. Paces Ferry Rd.
Atlanta, GA  30327
mb...@paceacademy.org




VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of issues 
relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic control, 
preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in libraries and 
related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as an effective 
working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of communication 
between libraries,educational institutions, and video producers and 
distributors.

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Doug Poswencyk]

Censorship is subjective?  I just thought that we don't do it.  I thought
as librarians we are totally against it.  And yes there are many librarians
who do it.  Why?  because they are afraid.  They don't want to ruffle any
feathers.  Or they let a select few control them.  Or only worry about what
the majority may think.  I've worked in college and university libraries
but now I am at a public library and let me tell you it happens a lot.
Sure librarians will defend "Catcher in the Rye" and "Heather Has Two
Mommies" because where's the controversy there?  What we really need to do
is buy that porn film for that professor or realize that Russ Meyer is art
and not porno.  Unfortunately, I see a lot of censorship by public library
administration in New Jersey and I see nothing done about it.  By saying
that librarians are the worst doesn't mean that librarians do it the most.
It means that we should not do it at all.  We can expect it and be prepared
for it from outside the library but from within?  NEVER!

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 7:25 PM, Anthony Anderson  wrote:

>  I am not sure that I could agree with the thesis that librarians are
> “the worst of censors” and “do it all the time.” This may be often the case
> in certain politically repressive cultures (North Korea?) but I don’t
> believe that it is necessary the standard norm in American academic
> libraries. Besides other responsibilities here at USC, I am also the
> selector for Holocaust Studies. I felt myself distinctly queasy about
> ordering some Holocaust denial books for the collection, but the books did
> get ordered.
>
>
>
> In any case, claiming that another colleague’s opinion is categorically
> “wrong” is a highly subjective judgment. Or so I think.
>
>
>
> Best regards,
>
> Anthony
>
>
>
> ***
>
> Anthony E. Anderson
>
> Assistant Director, Doheny Memorial Library
>
> University of Southern California
>
> Los Angeles, CA 90089-0182
>
> (213) 740-1190   antho...@usc.edu
>
> "Wind, regen, zon, of kou,
>
> Albert Cuyp ik hou van jou."
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] *On Behalf Of *Doug Poswencyk
> *Sent:* Monday, November 17, 2014 3:34 PM
> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
>
> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?
>
>
>
> BULLSHIT  I did not attack Darby or Maureen personally.  I attacked
> what they did.  What they said.  They were wrong.  If you don't want to
> have discussions then don't bother hanging around here.   You Matt are
> attacking me and I am sure you would not have the balls to say that to my
> face.  I am not a bully at all.  I am just stating my opinion.  If that's
> not OK then let's just not even have this conversation or any on here at
> all.  Librarians are the worst of censors.  And they do it all the time.
> This should be an issue that is dear to everyone in the profession.  It
> should not be tolerated.  We should be here to support in any way we can
> people who stick their necks out and make the right decision.  Not to
> support the wrong decisions.  I think that in both cases neither Maureen or
> Darby would have received any grief if they made the purchases.
>
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 4:57 PM, Cristella Bond 
> wrote:
>
>  Hi Matt,
>
>
>
> I'm feeling the same. Thanks for saying so.
>
>
>
> Cristella Bond
>
> Information Services Librarian
>
> Anderson Public Library 
>
> 111 E. 12th Street
>
> Anderson, IN  46016
>
> (765) 641-2456
>
>
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: "Sarah E. McCleskey" 
> To: "videolib@lists.berkeley.edu" 
> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:32:44 +
> Subject: Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?
>
>
> Hi Matt,
>
> You are not the only one!
>
> Best,
>
> Sarah
>
>
>
> Sarah E. McCleskey
>
> Head of Access Services, Film and Media
>
> 112 Axinn Library, 123 Hofstra University
>
> Hempstead, NY 11549
>
> sarah.e.mccles...@hofstra.edu
>
> 516-463-5076 (phone)
>
> 516-463-4309 (fax)
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu [mailto:
> videolib-boun...@lists.berkeley.edu] *On Behalf Of *Matt Ball
> *Sent:* Monday, November 17, 2014 4:18 PM
> *To:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Cc:* videolib@lists.berkeley.edu
> *Subject:* Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?
>
>
>
> As usual, videolib provides a lively forum for discussion, and this one in
> particular is fascinating.  But I must say,  I'm quite disturbed by the
> vitriolic tone of some of the responses as well as the judging and the
> public bullying that Maureen and Darby are having to endure.  Am I the only
> one?
>
>
>
> Matt
>
>
>
> ___
>
> Matt Ball
>
> Director, Woodruff Library
>
> Pace Academy
>
> 966 W. Paces Ferry Rd.
>
> Atlanta, GA  30327
>
> mb...@paceacademy.org
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively d

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Doug Poswencyk]

Or child pornography. There are laws but more importantly morals that
prevent us from doing this
I don't know of any snuff films.  The film that came out several years ago
was s hoax. Many of the films we are talking about here aren't even x
rated.
On Nov 17, 2014 2:43 PM, "Dennis Doros"  wrote:

> I have to say we had real discussions a few years ago with a very fine
> academic (and good friend) about releasing a DVD of historic pornography
> that was being taught in her course and other people's courses. I was
> really interested in it until the archivist holding the collection
> mentioned the possibility that with the a history of exploitation of actors
> in these films (not always, but frequently), do we want to be exploiting
> them again? There's not an easy answer.
>
> I also saw a presentation of pornography by the esteemed Linda Williams
> that was excellent and the first few films were fairly quaint or laughingly
> bad. But the last one was truly erotic and it made a lot of people
> uncomfortable. At what point does academic interest turn into voyeurism or
> worse, harassment? (One professor in Arizona lost his job when he taught a
> film pornography class.) I'll defend her right to show it 100% and I'm
> really glad for the experience that made me think so deeply about the
> meaning of academic study, but again there's no easy answer.
>
> This exploitation discussion came up recently with Belle Knox (the Duke
> student) this year and each case is so different. But without knowing the
> history of each film, I think you can have an epic pros and cons panel on
> carrying such titles and whether you're supporting the pornography
> business. Frankly, what I've seen in this string of emails is exactly what
> I would have expected -- great reasons for both sides of the equation.
>
> And if you say there should be complete academic freedom, what the heck do
> you do when a professor wants to buy a "real" snuff film?
>
>
> Best regards,
> Dennis Doros
> Milestone Film & Video
> PO Box 128 / Harrington Park, NJ 07640
> Phone: 201-767-3117 / Fax: 201-767-3035 / Email: milefi...@gmail.com
>
> Visit our main website!  www.milestonefilms.com
> Visit our new websites!  www.mspresents.com, www.portraitofjason.com, www.
> shirleyclarkefilms.com,
> To see or download our 2014 Video Catalog, click here
> 
> !
>
>
> Support "Milestone Film" on Facebook
>  and Twitter
> !
>
>
> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 1:04 PM, Doug Poswencyk 
> wrote:
>
>> But it is.  Besides, we don't even know what the film is!
>>
>> On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 12:26 PM, Catherine Lee <
>> catherinelee...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Hello All,
>>>
>>> I have been a lurker on this list for quite a while. I feel compelled to
>>> make a response now...to offer support for Darby and to express my
>>> appreciation for the thoughtful comments of Gisele and Darby in response to
>>> a legitimately challenging question by Maureen. "Good librarianship" also
>>> means being cognizant of the morals, politics, and overall climate of your
>>> institution and broader community.
>>>
>>> When I read the initial posting, I wondered what my response would be if
>>> I were faced with that situation. I'm not at a UC Berkeley, NC State, or
>>> UNT. I'm at a community college. Such a purchase--especially with state
>>> funds--would come under public scrutiny. Since I am not faced with this
>>> scenario, I don't have to make the decision...but I would hope that the
>>> decision I ended up making would not be met with accusations from my peers
>>> and colleagues of censorship or of being puritanical.
>>>
>>> Catherine Lee
>>> Cape Fear Community College
>>> Wilmington, NC
>>>
>>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
>>> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>>> producers and distributors.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
>> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
>> control, preservation, and use of current and evolving video formats in
>> libraries and related institutions. It is hoped that the list will serve as
>> an effective working tool for video librarians, as well as a channel of
>> communication between libraries,educational institutions, and video
>> producers and distributors.
>>
>>
>
> VIDEOLIB is intended to encourage the broad and lively discussion of
> issues relating to the selection, evaluation, acquisition,bibliographic
> control, preservati

Re: [Videolib] pornographic films in the Library collection?

[Gisele Genevieve Tanasse]

Well, despite being an early initial responder, I'm playing catch up at
this stage in the game (it was a busy day in Berkeley).

I am very grateful that my budget, administration and clientele have
allowed for a great amount of autonomy in curatorial decisions.  That said,
I have received some surprising challenges and complaints from the public--
and baseless accusations of misuse of state funds.  We all need to be
prepared with sound arguments when facing intellectual freedom challenges--
and this would seem especially to be the case for those librarians where
reporting lines, local politics and/or funding put media and video
collections at a disadvantage to traditional print collections.

Those video librarians venturing into new genres (and formats), much
like those with lesser degrees of autonomy, need positive and
productive support from this list the most.  As the list administrator, I
would hate to try to discourage any lively debate, but I very much hope
that some of the turns this discussion has taken do not have a chilling
effect on those looking for guidance in making sound intellectual freedom
decisions-- nor to the more experienced defenders of intellectual freedom
among us.

In my experience, a calm, respectful and well-reasoned approach is the best
course at resolving intellectual freedom challenges efficiently and
effectively-- the same goes for philosophical differences between
colleagues.  I realize this sounds overly simplistic-- I had the luxury of
taking an Academic Libraries Intellectual Freedom Seminar in library school
from the man who wrote the book (Jim Schmidt), during a particularly dark
time for our country, when librarian "John Doe" was in court in Connecticut
arguing against the Patriot Act's gag order on librarians (IF followers out
there may remember this also coincided with the more immediate horrors
of Hurricane Katrina).  I was sure I would end up in prison one day to
protect my patrons' privacy.

It is very serious business, folks, but let's all try to keep the
discussion productive and supportive for the benefit of those seeking
out guidance, edification and sound advice.

Many thanks,

Gisèle Tanasse

Head, Media Resources Center

150 Moffitt Library #6000
University of California
Berkeley, CA 94720-6000
PH: 510-642-8197
BCAL: nerdpo...@berkeley.edu
NOTE: PART TIME SCHEDULE Monday-Thurs 8AM-2PM

On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 6:49 PM, Doug Poswencyk  wrote:

> Or child pornography. There are laws but more importantly morals that
> prevent us from doing this
> I don't know of any snuff films.  The film that came out several years ago
> was s hoax. Many of the films we are talking about here aren't even x
> rated.
> On Nov 17, 2014 2:43 PM, "Dennis Doros"  wrote:
>
>> I have to say we had real discussions a few years ago with a very fine
>> academic (and good friend) about releasing a DVD of historic pornography
>> that was being taught in her course and other people's courses. I was
>> really interested in it until the archivist holding the collection
>> mentioned the possibility that with the a history of exploitation of actors
>> in these films (not always, but frequently), do we want to be exploiting
>> them again? There's not an easy answer.
>>
>> I also saw a presentation of pornography by the esteemed Linda Williams
>> that was excellent and the first few films were fairly quaint or laughingly
>> bad. But the last one was truly erotic and it made a lot of people
>> uncomfortable. At what point does academic interest turn into voyeurism or
>> worse, harassment? (One professor in Arizona lost his job when he taught a
>> film pornography class.) I'll defend her right to show it 100% and I'm
>> really glad for the experience that made me think so deeply about the
>> meaning of academic study, but again there's no easy answer.
>>
>> This exploitation discussion came up recently with Belle Knox (the Duke
>> student) this year and each case is so different. But without knowing the
>> history of each film, I think you can have an epic pros and cons panel on
>> carrying such titles and whether you're supporting the pornography
>> business. Frankly, what I've seen in this string of emails is exactly what
>> I would have expected -- great reasons for both sides of the equation.
>>
>> And if you say there should be complete academic freedom, what the heck
>> do you do when a professor wants to buy a "real" snuff film?
>>
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Dennis Doros
>> Milestone Film & Video
>> PO Box 128 / Harrington Park, NJ 07640
>> Phone: 201-767-3117 / Fax: 201-767-3035 / Email: milefi...@gmail.com
>>
>> Visit our main website!  www.milestonefilms.com
>> Visit our new websites!  www.mspresents.com, www.portraitofjason.com,
>> www.shirleyclarkefilms.com,
>> To see or download our 2014 Video Catalog, click here
>> 
>> !
>>
>>
>> Support "Milestone Film" on Facebook
>>