[VIHUELA] Re: some 19th century seven-string guitar pieces
Thanks! These are really intended to be expanded in performance, I think. I have arranged both tunes before, the 1st for renaissance lute, the 2nd for baroque, the latter with variations. RT - Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:35 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] some 19th century seven-string guitar pieces 1) (Many thanks to Alexander Batov for translating the titles) It hurts and aches, a Russian national song arranged by A. O. Sychra. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSpqj-Y66FA 2) There stays a sycamore tree over the water and One mountain is high, the other low ..., Ukrainian songs arranged by V. Morkov with seventh string tuned down to C. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v99az9Nl0vg (admittedly over-processed pano of disused railway line across field!) Probably both mid 19th century or earlier. Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: some 19th century seven-string guitar pieces
Without variations actually http://www.torban.org/pisni/images/odnagora.pdf RT These are really intended to be expanded in performance, I think. I have arranged both tunes before, the 1st for renaissance lute, the 2nd for baroque, the latter with variations. RT - Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 10:35 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] some 19th century seven-string guitar pieces 1) (Many thanks to Alexander Batov for translating the titles) It hurts and aches, a Russian national song arranged by A. O. Sychra. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CSpqj-Y66FA 2) There stays a sycamore tree over the water and One mountain is high, the other low ..., Ukrainian songs arranged by V. Morkov with seventh string tuned down to C. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v99az9Nl0vg (admittedly over-processed pano of disused railway line across field!) Probably both mid 19th century or earlier. Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: some 19th century seven-string guitar pieces
http://www.torban.org/sarmaticae/images/sarmatica86.pdf http://www.torban.org/sarmaticae/audio/CS86a.mp3 with Rob MacKillop on a vihuela. From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com 2) There stays a sycamore tree over the water European Maple rather. Sycamore is an Asia Minor variety. RT and One mountain is high, the other low ..., Ukrainian songs arranged by V. Morkov with seventh string tuned down to C. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v99az9Nl0vg (admittedly over-processed pano of disused railway line across field!) Probably both mid 19th century or earlier. Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: some 19th century seven-string guitar pieces
The Maple song has an interesting literary history. Its text has many regional variants, all of which have a common derivation in a text by Hryhoriy Skovoroda, an influential poet, philosopher and non-conformist (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skovoroda and http://www.torban.org/pisni/skovoroda.html). RT - Original Message - From: Roman Turovsky r.turov...@verizon.net To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu; Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 11:34 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: some 19th century seven-string guitar pieces http://www.torban.org/sarmaticae/images/sarmatica86.pdf http://www.torban.org/sarmaticae/audio/CS86a.mp3 with Rob MacKillop on a vihuela. From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com 2) There stays a sycamore tree over the water European Maple rather. Sycamore is an Asia Minor variety. RT and One mountain is high, the other low ..., Ukrainian songs arranged by V. Morkov with seventh string tuned down to C. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v99az9Nl0vg (admittedly over-processed pano of disused railway line across field!) Probably both mid 19th century or earlier. Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: some 19th century seven-string guitar pieces
Well, the botanical name for Ukrainian 'Явір' (the way it appears in the song title) is 'Acer pseudoplatanus' which is the same that is used to define 'Sycamore' or 'Sycamore Maple'. Acer pseudoplatanus is native both to central Europe (including Ukraine) and West Asia. So I suppose either of the two words (without getting excessively botanical :)) would be fine for this song title. I personally prefer Sycamore. AB On 18/04/2010 16:34, Roman Turovsky wrote: 2) There stays a sycamore tree over the water European Maple rather. Sycamore is an Asia Minor variety. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: some 19th century seven-string guitar pieces
My dictionary has maple as European, sycamore as Asian, and planetree as American.. WHichever it is - the tree in question has a large symbolic value, and there is even one Yavor Genov, a young Bulgarian lute-player! RT From: Alexander Batov alexander.ba...@vihuelademano.com Well, the botanical name for Ukrainian 'Явір' (the way it appears in the song title) is 'Acer pseudoplatanus' which is the same that is used to define 'Sycamore' or 'Sycamore Maple'. Acer pseudoplatanus is native both to central Europe (including Ukraine) and West Asia. So I suppose either of the two words (without getting excessively botanical :)) would be fine for this song title. I personally prefer Sycamore. AB On 18/04/2010 16:34, Roman Turovsky wrote: 2) There stays a sycamore tree over the water European Maple rather. Sycamore is an Asia Minor variety. RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: some 19th century seven-string guitar pieces
All arrangers took liberties, and all the versions differ, more than slightly. The 18th century ethnomusicological sources are 2: Prach and Trutovsky. RT Roman Turovsky wrote: http://www.torban.org/sarmaticae/images/sarmatica86.pdf http://www.torban.org/sarmaticae/audio/CS86a.mp3 with Rob MacKillop on a vihuela. Rob's away with the banjo at the moment. Your version of the sycamore/maple tune- especially the melodic line (but also in not moving to the relative major) - in is really quite a bit different from Morkov's? Russian aristocrat Morkov might have got it from Lvov Prach, do you think? Stuart From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com 2) There stays a sycamore tree over the water European Maple rather. Sycamore is an Asia Minor variety. RT and One mountain is high, the other low ..., Ukrainian songs arranged by V. Morkov with seventh string tuned down to C. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v99az9Nl0vg (admittedly over-processed pano of disused railway line across field!) Probably both mid 19th century or earlier. Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: some 19th century seven-string guitar pieces
I suppose it all depends on who compiled your dictionary :) Good of you to mention Yavor Genov, he's brilliant. One of a few perhaps who plays Dowland with the correct technique (i.e. without resorting to thumb-under) and it just sounds right! AB On 18/04/2010 17:55, Roman Turovsky wrote: My dictionary has maple as European, sycamore as Asian, and planetree as American.. WHichever it is - the tree in question has a large symbolic value, and there is even one Yavor Genov, a young Bulgarian lute-player! RT To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini-Granata
That is fascinating! I haven't had time to look at the pieces closely but it doesn't surprise me. Most of the introduction to Granata's 1646 book has also been copied from Foscarini. And he accused Corbetta of plagiarism! But the pieces may not be by Foscarini either! Monica - Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:12 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Foscarini-Granata I suppose this is well known, but it's news to me: A French chap on the EGV ning site put up a scan of Granata (1659) a few days ago. It's got some re-entrant tunings at the end of the book and it has got the re-entrant tuning that Foscarini used, 'la cordatura diferente' (Fosco p.99). And it's got a couple of the same tunes too! This particular tuning in Granata (B-D-G-B-D) begins on page 88. The 'corrente' on page 90 in Granata is the very similar to the Foscarini 'corrente' (admittedly with some differences) and the very sultry sarabande in Foscarini, is here in Granata (p.92) a 'pasacgli'. Granata's 'pasacgli' is different in some ways but it's such a characterful piece that it is unmistakably the same material (including a particularly juicy chord) as Foscarini's 'sarabande'. Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini-Granata
That is fascinating! I haven't had time to look at the pieces closely but it doesn't surprise me. Most of the introduction to Granata's 1646 book has also been copied from Foscarini. And he accused Corbetta of plagiarism! But the pieces may not be by Foscarini either! Monica Here are the two corrente (Fosco and Granata) http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/FoscoGran.jpg (I hope I haven't made them too small). They are not the same - but very similar - especially when you play them. Stuart - Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:12 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Foscarini-Granata I suppose this is well known, but it's news to me: A French chap on the EGV ning site put up a scan of Granata (1659) a few days ago. It's got some re-entrant tunings at the end of the book and it has got the re-entrant tuning that Foscarini used, 'la cordatura diferente' (Fosco p.99). And it's got a couple of the same tunes too! This particular tuning in Granata (B-D-G-B-D) begins on page 88. The 'corrente' on page 90 in Granata is the very similar to the Foscarini 'corrente' (admittedly with some differences) and the very sultry sarabande in Foscarini, is here in Granata (p.92) a 'pasacgli'. Granata's 'pasacgli' is different in some ways but it's such a characterful piece that it is unmistakably the same material (including a particularly juicy chord) as Foscarini's 'sarabande'. Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini-Granata
Thank you Stuart - it's very convenient to have them side by side and they are the right size. I tend to avoid scordatura pieces. I hate re-tuning my guitar and I find that it takes all morning for it to settle into the new interval pattern. I don't know why that should be. I have played through Fosco's pieces in the past but not Granata - I have never got to grips with his books. They are so badly printed. On the subject of Foscarini - someone has offered to help with the tablature transcription of some of the pieces. He is doing some pieces in Book 3 and when he has done them I will key them in and add them to the great project. Even if you photocopy the pieces and suggests some note values and bar lines it would be helpful. I haven't attempted the scordatura pieces as this would involve re-setting the tablature programme as well as re-tuning the guitar. Cheers Monica - Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 9:52 PM Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Foscarini-Granata Stuart Walsh wrote: That is fascinating! I haven't had time to look at the pieces closely but it doesn't surprise me. Most of the introduction to Granata's 1646 book has also been copied from Foscarini. And he accused Corbetta of plagiarism! But the pieces may not be by Foscarini either! Monica Here are the two corrente (Fosco and Granata) http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/FoscoGran.jpg (I hope I haven't made them too small). They are not the same - but very similar - especially when you play them. and here is the Foscarini 'sarabande' with the Granata 'pasacagli' http://www.pluckedturkeys.co.uk/FoscoGran1.jpg Stuart Stuart - Original Message - From: Stuart Walsh s.wa...@ntlworld.com To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, April 18, 2010 8:12 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Foscarini-Granata I suppose this is well known, but it's news to me: A French chap on the EGV ning site put up a scan of Granata (1659) a few days ago. It's got some re-entrant tunings at the end of the book and it has got the re-entrant tuning that Foscarini used, 'la cordatura diferente' (Fosco p.99). And it's got a couple of the same tunes too! This particular tuning in Granata (B-D-G-B-D) begins on page 88. The 'corrente' on page 90 in Granata is the very similar to the Foscarini 'corrente' (admittedly with some differences) and the very sultry sarabande in Foscarini, is here in Granata (p.92) a 'pasacgli'. Granata's 'pasacgli' is different in some ways but it's such a characterful piece that it is unmistakably the same material (including a particularly juicy chord) as Foscarini's 'sarabande'. Stuart To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
