[VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example

2011-05-10 Thread Martyn Hodgson

   Hello Monica,

   I've just returned from an extended Easter break and am catching up
   with emails, but this is more interesting than most

   Pitch standards come first to mind when thinking of any reason why the
   guitar part
   and the keyboard part should be a tone higher than the others. In
   short, if the chitarra.
   and the spinetta were generally kept at a tone below other instruments
   they would need such a part to enable them to play with the other
   instruments. Perhaps being more for domestic use than for formal
   concerts and thus not requiring so much 'brightness' might explain this
   practice.

   regards

   Martyn
   --- On Mon, 9/5/11, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:

 From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
 Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example
 To: Rockford Mjos rm...@comcast.net
 Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Monday, 9 May, 2011, 17:49

  Yes - that seems very likely.   Singers/players would be listed in
  payrolls under just one heading.   Multi tasking.   Out of 16 people
  listed 13 are singers.
  Having looked more closely at the guitar part - it doesn't look very
  suitable for guitar - it goes down to E below the bass stave in
   places
  although these could be played an octave higher.   The guitar part
  seems to be also for the spinetta - either/or perhaps.
  Has anyone tried to fit the parts together?   Can anyone think of
   any
  reason why the guitar part and the keyboard part should be a tone
  higher than the others?
  Interesting.
  Monica
  - Original Message -
  From: [1]Rockford Mjos
  To: [2]Monica Hall
  Cc: [3]Vihuelalist
  Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Guitar continuo example
  If we are looking for possible guitarists to take that second
  hand-plucked part, Reggio comes to mind, though listed in the court
  payroll as a bass (singer) [See STMF 1961, p. 308]
  Kenneth Sparr had this comment:
  During the period 1652-1654 Queen Christine of Sweden had a company
   of
  Italian musicians and actors employed. Among these musicians you
   find
  the theorbist and guitarist Angiol Michele Bartolotti as well as the
  singer, lutenist and guitarist Pietro Francesco Reggio. 
  [4][1]http://www.tabulatura.com/SWEGUIT.htm
  -- R
  On May 9, 2011, at 10:23 AM, Monica Hall wrote:
  Thanks for sharing the info with us.   Your delving into this
  collection is enormously useful.
  It does look as if the guitar is supposed to be playing along with
  everyone else.  But  the list of artists in Albrici's ensemble paid
   in
  1653
  includes Bartolotti as the only theorbo player,  one
   violinist/violist
  and one keyboard player.   All of the rest of the artists seem to be
  singers. Perhaps they also played various instruments.
  Monica
  - Original Message - From: Rockford Mjos
  [5][2]rm...@comcast.net
  To: [6][3]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Cc: Lex Eisenhardt [7][4]eisenha...@planet.nl
  Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:38 AM
  Subject: [VIHUELA] Guitar continuo example
  While browsing the online Duben collection I stumbled upon a
   Sinfonia
  by Albrici with a part listed for Chitarra.
  It brought to mind Lex's inquiries about specific mention/uses of
   the
  guitar as a continuo instrument.
  Sinfonia a 6./Primo Tono./di/Sig:r Vincenzo Albrici./1654.
  You can have a look here:
  [8][5]http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/presentationSource.php?Select_Dn
   r 66
  On part 08 click on Browse Part. It's standard bass clef notation
  with figures.
  -- R
  --
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [9][6]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  --
   References
  1. mailto:[7]rm...@comcast.net
  2. mailto:[8]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
  3. mailto:[9]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
  4. [10]http://www.tabulatura.com/SWEGUIT.htm
  5. mailto:[11]rm...@comcast.net
  6. mailto:[12]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
  7. mailto:[13]eisenha...@planet.nl
  8.
   [14]http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/presentationSource.php?Select_Dnr
  9. [15]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.tabulatura.com/SWEGUIT.htm
   2. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rm...@comcast.net
   3. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=eisenha...@planet.nl
   5. http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/presentationSource.php?Select_Dnr
   6. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
   7. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=rm...@comcast.net
   8. http://uk.mc263.mail.yahoo.com/mc/compose?to=mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   9. 

[VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example

2011-05-10 Thread Martyn Hodgson

   Dear Ralf,

   Prima la musica is a very reputable small publishing firm (one man I
   think - Brian Clark) producing limited runs of specialist early music
   editions.  I'd guess the ARR tag is used, as by other commercial
   publishers, to try and ensure they are paid a royalty when anyone uses
   their edition for public performance or commercial recording.  This
   practice has, I think,  become even more widespread since the court
   case a few years ago involving Hyperion records.

   I'm not taking sides - merely giving what may be the reason for the
   practice.

   MH

   --- On Mon, 9/5/11, R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de wrote:

 From: R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de
 Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example
 To: Rockford Mjos rm...@comcast.net, Monica Hall
 mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
 Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Monday, 9 May, 2011, 19:53

   On Mon, 9 May 2011 12:56:20 -0500, Rockford Mjos wrote
Kremberg and others assume a guitar tuned in D so, of course, a
transposing part would mean thinking E-tuned guitar shapes on a D
instrument (for example).
   And the spinetta is also a transposing instrument?
   Might well be parts written for instruments at different pitch levels
   (not unheard of even in Bach's time).
When I play continuo on guitar I transpose out of range bass lines
(in my head) as needed.
   Looking at the parts, I think there's plenty of bass already.
I also wonder about the Tacet instructions. On some parts I see
Spinetta tacet, but not chitarra tacet. In the shared chitarra/
spinetta part Spinetta tacet appears to be crossed out.
   
I came across the beginning here, though it does not show the
Spinetta to be a transposing part, nor that Chitarra is also listed
(first!) on that part. (Perhaps preface material or edition notes
address these oversights.)
[1]http://www.primalamusica.com/PDFs/APR09/ALB001.pdf
[2]http://www.primalamusica.com/albrici-3030-0.html  [chitarra not
mentioned here, either]
   What an obnoxious edition! All rights reserved - yeah, right!
   They probably bought the performance rights from Signore Albrici
   himself.
   Cheers, Ralf Mattes
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   [3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. http://www.primalamusica.com/PDFs/APR09/ALB001.pdf
   2. http://www.primalamusica.com/albrici-3030-0.html
   3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html



[VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example

2011-05-10 Thread R. Mattes
On Tue, 10 May 2011 09:35:05 +0100 (BST), Martyn Hodgson wrote
 Dear Ralf,
 
Prima la musica is a very reputable small publishing firm (one 
 man I   think - Brian Clark) producing limited runs of specialist 
 early music   editions. 

This might well be - looking at their website gives that impreession.
But ...

 I'd guess the ARR tag is used, as by other commercial
publishers, to try and ensure they are paid a royalty when anyone 
 uses   their edition for public performance or commercial recording. 
  This   practice has, I think,  become even more widespread since 
 the court   case a few years ago involving Hyperion records.

.. I still fail to see what gives them the right to do so.
All rights reserved means what it says: _All rights_, not 
just you can't legaly photocopy this music. 
Royalties? A _composer_ (and a performer, in case of recordings)
gets royalties, _not_ a publisher (note: in the US a composer might
sell/sign over these rights to a publisher, but I doubt Sign. Albrici
did this). They simply claim rights they do not hold.

Does it matter? Unfortunately yes. Next time I perform this little gem
in a public performance I have to prove to some dork from german
GEMA that noone holds performance right on the piece. An a quick google
will lead him to this edition (unfortunately, in Germany, thank's to
the GEMA Vermutung one has to prove that some music is free, not
the other way round, as it should be). If 'Prima la musica' is a member
of some copyright association then GEMA might sue me (on behalf of
Prima la Musica). Which might result in me having to counter-sue Prima la
musica for unjustly claiming performance right - probably _not_ what 
they intended 
  
I'm not taking sides - merely giving what may be the reason for 
 the   practice.

I might sound grumpy but this seems to become a unhealthy habbit recently.

 Cheers, Ralf Mattes
 
MH
 
--- On Mon, 9/5/11, R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de wrote:
 
  From: R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de
  Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example
  To: Rockford Mjos rm...@comcast.net, Monica Hall
  mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
  Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Date: Monday, 9 May, 2011, 19:53
 
On Mon, 9 May 2011 12:56:20 -0500, Rockford Mjos wrote
 Kremberg and others assume a guitar tuned in D so, of course, a
 transposing part would mean thinking E-tuned guitar shapes on a 
 Dinstrument (for example).   And the spinetta is also a 
 transposing instrument?   Might well be parts written for 
 instruments at different pitch levels
(not unheard of even in Bach's time).When I play continuo on 
 guitar I transpose out of range bass lines(in my head) as 
 needed.   Looking at the parts, I think there's plenty of bass already.
 I also wonder about the Tacet instructions. On some parts I 
 seeSpinetta tacet, but not chitarra tacet. In the shared chitarra/
 spinetta part Spinetta tacet appears to be crossed out.

 I came across the beginning here, though it does not show the
 Spinetta to be a transposing part, nor that Chitarra is also listed
 (first!) on that part. (Perhaps preface material or edition 
 notesaddress these oversights.)   
[1]http://www.primalamusica.com/PDFs/APR09/ALB001.pdf
 [2]http://www.primalamusica.com/albrici-3030-0.html  [chitarra not
 mentioned here, either]
What an obnoxious edition! All rights reserved - yeah, right!
They probably bought the performance rights from Signore Albrici
himself.
Cheers, Ralf Mattes
To get on or off this list see list information at
[3]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
 
--
 
 References
 
1. http://www.primalamusica.com/PDFs/APR09/ALB001.pdf
2. http://www.primalamusica.com/albrici-3030-0.html
3. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


--
R. Mattes -
Hochschule fuer Musik Freiburg
r...@inm.mh-freiburg.de




[VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example

2011-05-10 Thread Martyn Hodgson

   Dear Ralf,

   I recall that the heart of the Hyperion case was that the editor had
   introduced new material into the edition by virtue of the
   new typesetting and perhaps there were also corrections/performance
   practice notes and the like - I can't recall the exact details.

   Many of us were, and remain, puzzled at the ruling and for a short time
   it seemed that Hyperion (a fairly small specialist label) might have to
   close (its costs were quite significant). Happily that proved not to be
   the case.

   Finally,  'All rights reserved' refers to rights assigned to such a
   publication by the law: it is by virtue of such legal rulings that
   publishers hold these rights.  If you're interested in the bacground
   and legal arguments, there are summaries of the case, known as Sawkins
   v Hyperion Records Ltd 2005, on various sites such as
[1]www.4-5graysinnsquare.co.uk/news/index.cfm?id=1391

regards

   Martyn




   --- On Tue, 10/5/11, R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de wrote:

 From: R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de
 Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example
 To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk, Rockford Mjos
 rm...@comcast.net, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
 Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Tuesday, 10 May, 2011, 10:27

   On Tue, 10 May 2011 09:35:05 +0100 (BST), Martyn Hodgson wrote
Dear Ralf,
   
   Prima la musica is a very reputable small publishing firm (one
man I   think - Brian Clark) producing limited runs of specialist
early music   editions.
   This might well be - looking at their website gives that impreession.
   But ...
I'd guess the ARR tag is used, as by other commercial
   publishers, to try and ensure they are paid a royalty when anyone
uses   their edition for public performance or commercial recording.
 This   practice has, I think,  become even more widespread since
the court   case a few years ago involving Hyperion records.
   ... I still fail to see what gives them the right to do so.
   All rights reserved means what it says: _All rights_, not
   just you can't legaly photocopy this music.
   Royalties? A _composer_ (and a performer, in case of recordings)
   gets royalties, _not_ a publisher (note: in the US a composer might
   sell/sign over these rights to a publisher, but I doubt Sign. Albrici
   did this). They simply claim rights they do not hold.
   Does it matter? Unfortunately yes. Next time I perform this little gem
   in a public performance I have to prove to some dork from german
   GEMA that noone holds performance right on the piece. An a quick google
   will lead him to this edition (unfortunately, in Germany, thank's to
   the GEMA Vermutung one has to prove that some music is free, not
   the other way round, as it should be). If 'Prima la musica' is a member
   of some copyright association then GEMA might sue me (on behalf of
   Prima la Musica). Which might result in me having to counter-sue Prima
   la
   musica for unjustly claiming performance right - probably _not_ what
   they intended 

   I'm not taking sides - merely giving what may be the reason for
the   practice.
   I might sound grumpy but this seems to become a unhealthy habbit
   recently.
   Cheers, Ralf Mattes
   MH
   
   --- On Mon, 9/5/11, R. Mattes [2]r...@mh-freiburg.de wrote:
   
 From: R. Mattes [3]r...@mh-freiburg.de
 Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example
 To: Rockford Mjos [4]rm...@comcast.net, Monica Hall
 [5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
 Cc: Vihuelalist [6]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Monday, 9 May, 2011, 19:53
   
   On Mon, 9 May 2011 12:56:20 -0500, Rockford Mjos wrote
Kremberg and others assume a guitar tuned in D so, of course, a
transposing part would mean thinking E-tuned guitar shapes on a
Dinstrument (for example).   And the spinetta is also a
transposing instrument?   Might well be parts written for
instruments at different pitch levels
   (not unheard of even in Bach's time).When I play continuo on
guitar I transpose out of range bass lines(in my head) as
needed.   Looking at the parts, I think there's plenty of bass
   already.
I also wonder about the Tacet instructions. On some parts I
seeSpinetta tacet, but not chitarra tacet. In the shared
   chitarra/
spinetta part Spinetta tacet appears to be crossed out.
   
I came across the beginning here, though it does not show the
Spinetta to be a transposing part, nor that Chitarra is also
   listed
(first!) on that part. (Perhaps preface material or edition
notesaddress these oversights.)   
   [1][7]http://www.primalamusica.com/PDFs/APR09/ALB001.pdf
[2][8]http://www.primalamusica.com/albrici-3030-0.html
   [chitarra not
mentioned here, either]
   What an obnoxious edition! All rights reserved - 

[VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example

2011-05-10 Thread R. Mattes
On Tue, 10 May 2011 14:37:10 +0100 (BST), Martyn Hodgson wrote 

 If you're interested in the bacground and legal arguments, there are
 summaries of the case, known as Sawkins v Hyperion Records Ltd 2005,
 on various sites such as  

  www.4-5graysinnsquare.co.uk/news/index.cfm?id=1391 

Thanks for the link. One intersting question: did the performers of
the hyperion record actually _use_ the edition?

Sacry quote: The response of the claimant, which the judge accepted,
 was that none of the music could have been played or performed by
 using any of the earlier extant Lalande scores.

Poor old french musicians from the baroque - living in a time with
such wonderfull music that they could not perform :-/

 Cheers, Ralf Mattes



To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example

2011-05-10 Thread Martyn Hodgson

I believe they (Ex-Cathedra dir. Jeff Skidmore) did use the edition not, of 
course, expecting all the subsequent trouble.

Mh

--- On Tue, 10/5/11, R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de wrote:

 From: R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de
 Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example
 To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
 Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Tuesday, 10 May, 2011, 15:03
 On Tue, 10 May 2011 14:37:10 +0100
 (BST), Martyn Hodgson wrote 
 
  If you're interested in the bacground and legal
 arguments, there are
  summaries of the case, known as Sawkins v Hyperion
 Records Ltd 2005,
  on various sites such as  
 
   www.4-5graysinnsquare.co.uk/news/index.cfm?id=1391 
 
 Thanks for the link. One intersting question: did the
 performers of
 the hyperion record actually _use_ the edition?
 
 Sacry quote: The response of the claimant, which the judge
 accepted,
  was that none of the music could have been played or
 performed by
  using any of the earlier extant Lalande scores.
 
 Poor old french musicians from the baroque - living in a
 time with
 such wonderfull music that they could not perform :-/
 
  Cheers, Ralf Mattes
 





To get on or off this list see list information at
http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html


[VIHUELA] Copyrights (was Guitar continuo example)

2011-05-10 Thread Chris Despopoulos
   That's an interesting summary to read.  I think there's a gray area
   here between scholarly work and performance.  There's no doubt that a
   scholar should get his (or her) due for intellectual exertions.  The
   question is, what is that due?
   When a scholar publishes a historical text, then to see that text I
   have to buy it.  The scholar gets paid.  If I read from that text in a
   public performance, does the scholar deserve royalties for that
   reading?  I don't know.  Should publishers of new versions of the Bible
   collect royalties every time their versions are read in a sermon?
   I guess the lesson here is that you should go to the source.  If the
   edition didn't add anything to the performance that couldn't have come
   from a reading of the original, then why didn't Hyperion just go to the
   original?  The realization of a historical recording is not just a
   matter of playing notes.  It's a matter of historical research --
   players need to study their history.  And if the edition of some music
   adds historical insight, then that is part of the realization.
   So does this mean that I can't play for profit any pieces in the Libro
   de Diferentes Cifras without setting aside royalties for F. A.
   Valdivia (and possible those who collaborated)?  Even if I disagree
   with some of the edits and play the pieces differently?  Thank goodness
   I'm an amateur!
   cud
 __

   From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   To: R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de
   Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:37 AM
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example
 Dear Ralf,
 I recall that the heart of the Hyperion case was that the editor had
 introduced new material into the edition by virtue of the
 new typesetting and perhaps there were also corrections/performance
 practice notes and the like - I can't recall the exact details.
 Many of us were, and remain, puzzled at the ruling and for a short
   time
 it seemed that Hyperion (a fairly small specialist label) might have
   to
 close (its costs were quite significant). Happily that proved not to
   be
 the case.
 Finally,  'All rights reserved' refers to rights assigned to such a
 publication by the law: it is by virtue of such legal rulings that
 publishers hold these rights.  If you're interested in the bacground
 and legal arguments, there are summaries of the case, known as
   Sawkins
 v Hyperion Records Ltd 2005, on various sites such as
   [1]www.4-5graysinnsquare.co.uk/news/index.cfm?id=1391
   regards
 Martyn
 --- On Tue, 10/5/11, R. Mattes [1]r...@mh-freiburg.de wrote:
   From: R. Mattes [2]r...@mh-freiburg.de
   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example
   To: Martyn Hodgson [3]hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk, Rockford
   Mjos
   [4]rm...@comcast.net, Monica Hall [5]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   Cc: Vihuelalist [6]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Date: Tuesday, 10 May, 2011, 10:27
 On Tue, 10 May 2011 09:35:05 +0100 (BST), Martyn Hodgson wrote
  Dear Ralf,
 
 Prima la musica is a very reputable small publishing firm (one
  man I  think - Brian Clark) producing limited runs of specialist
  early music  editions.
 This might well be - looking at their website gives that impreession.
 But ...
  I'd guess the ARR tag is used, as by other commercial
 publishers, to try and ensure they are paid a royalty when
   anyone
  uses  their edition for public performance or commercial recording.
   This  practice has, I think,  become even more widespread since
  the court  case a few years ago involving Hyperion records.
 ... I still fail to see what gives them the right to do so.
 All rights reserved means what it says: _All rights_, not
 just you can't legaly photocopy this music.
 Royalties? A _composer_ (and a performer, in case of recordings)
 gets royalties, _not_ a publisher (note: in the US a composer might
 sell/sign over these rights to a publisher, but I doubt Sign. Albrici
 did this). They simply claim rights they do not hold.
 Does it matter? Unfortunately yes. Next time I perform this little
   gem
 in a public performance I have to prove to some dork from german
 GEMA that noone holds performance right on the piece. An a quick
   google
 will lead him to this edition (unfortunately, in Germany, thank's to
 the GEMA Vermutung one has to prove that some music is free, not
 the other way round, as it should be). If 'Prima la musica' is a
   member
 of some copyright association then GEMA might sue me (on behalf of
 Prima la Musica). Which might result in me having to counter-sue
   Prima
 la
 musica for unjustly claiming performance right - probably _not_ what
 they intended 
 I'm not taking 

[VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example

2011-05-10 Thread Chris Despopoulos
   The music could have been impossible to perform because of the
   condition of the manuscript.  Some significant number of notes may have
   been obscured, for example.  Or perhaps the music was scattered across
   different manuscripts or versions, and the editor compiled these
   instances into a single edition.  You can't accept the assertion out of
   hand, but you can't reject it out of hand either.
 __

   From: R. Mattes r...@mh-freiburg.de
   To: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 10:03 AM
   Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example
   On Tue, 10 May 2011 14:37:10 +0100 (BST), Martyn Hodgson wrote
If you're interested in the bacground and legal arguments, there are
summaries of the case, known as Sawkins v Hyperion Records Ltd 2005,
on various sites such as
 www.4-5graysinnsquare.co.uk/news/index.cfm?id=1391
   Thanks for the link. One intersting question: did the performers of
   the hyperion record actually _use_ the edition?
   Sacry quote: The response of the claimant, which the judge accepted,
   was that none of the music could have been played or performed by
   using any of the earlier extant Lalande scores.
   Poor old french musicians from the baroque - living in a time with
   such wonderfull music that they could not perform :-/
   Cheers, Ralf Mattes
   To get on or off this list see list information at
   http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --



[VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example

2011-05-10 Thread Monica Hall
   Yes - that seems possible.   But why would the continuo group need to
   include guitar and spinetta as well as cembalo (harpsichord), organ and
   theorbo.



   It seems quite a large ad hoc group of instruments.



   Monica

   - Original Message -

   From: [1]Martyn Hodgson

   To: [2]Monica Hall

   Cc: [3]Vihuelalist

   Sent: Tuesday, May 10, 2011 9:20 AM

   Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example

   Hello Monica,

   I've just returned from an extended Easter break and am catching up
   with emails, but this is more interesting than most

   Pitch standards come first to mind when thinking of any reason why the
   guitar part
   and the keyboard part should be a tone higher than the others. In
   short, if the chitarra.
   and the spinetta were generally kept at a tone below other instruments
   they would need such a part to enable them to play with the other
   instruments. Perhaps being more for domestic use than for formal
   concerts and thus not requiring so much 'brightness' might explain this
   practice.

   regards

   Martyn
   --- On Mon, 9/5/11, Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk wrote:

 From: Monica Hall mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
 Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Guitar continuo example
 To: Rockford Mjos rm...@comcast.net
 Cc: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
 Date: Monday, 9 May, 2011, 17:49

  Yes - that seems very likely.   Singers/players would be listed in
  payrolls under just one heading.   Multi tasking.   Out of 16 people
  listed 13 are singers.
  Having looked more closely at the guitar part - it doesn't look very
  suitable for guitar - it goes down to E below the bass stave in
   places
  although these could be played an octave higher.   The guitar part
  seems to be also for the spinetta - either/or perhaps.
  Has anyone tried to fit the parts together?   Can anyone think of
   any
  reason why the guitar part and the keyboard part should be a tone
  higher than the others?
  Interesting.
  Monica
  - Original Message -
  From: [1]Rockford Mjos
  To: [2]Monica Hall
  Cc: [3]Vihuelalist
  Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [VIHUELA] Guitar continuo example
  If we are looking for possible guitarists to take that second
  hand-plucked part, Reggio comes to mind, though listed in the court
  payroll as a bass (singer) [See STMF 1961, p. 308]
  Kenneth Sparr had this comment:
  During the period 1652-1654 Queen Christine of Sweden had a company
   of
  Italian musicians and actors employed. Among these musicians you
   find
  the theorbist and guitarist Angiol Michele Bartolotti as well as the
  singer, lutenist and guitarist Pietro Francesco Reggio. 
  [4][4]http://www.tabulatura.com/SWEGUIT.htm
  -- R
  On May 9, 2011, at 10:23 AM, Monica Hall wrote:
  Thanks for sharing the info with us.   Your delving into this
  collection is enormously useful.
  It does look as if the guitar is supposed to be playing along with
  everyone else.  But  the list of artists in Albrici's ensemble paid
   in
  1653
  includes Bartolotti as the only theorbo player,  one
   violinist/violist
  and one keyboard player.   All of the rest of the artists seem to be
  singers. Perhaps they also played various instruments.
  Monica
  - Original Message - From: Rockford Mjos
  [5][5]rm...@comcast.net
  To: [6][6]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
  Cc: Lex Eisenhardt [7][7]eisenha...@planet.nl
  Sent: Monday, May 09, 2011 5:38 AM
  Subject: [VIHUELA] Guitar continuo example
  While browsing the online Duben collection I stumbled upon a
   Sinfonia
  by Albrici with a part listed for Chitarra.
  It brought to mind Lex's inquiries about specific mention/uses of
   the
  guitar as a continuo instrument.
  Sinfonia a 6./Primo Tono./di/Sig:r Vincenzo Albrici./1654.
  You can have a look here:
  [8][8]http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/presentationSource.php?Select_Dn
   r 66
  On part 08 click on Browse Part. It's standard bass clef notation
  with figures.
  -- R
  --
  To get on or off this list see list information at
  [9][9]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
  --
   References
  1. mailto:[10]rm...@comcast.net
  2. mailto:[11]mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
  3. mailto:[12]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
  4. [13]http://www.tabulatura.com/SWEGUIT.htm
  5. mailto:[14]rm...@comcast.net
  6. mailto:[15]vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
  7. mailto:[16]eisenha...@planet.nl
  8.
   [17]http://www2.musik.uu.se/duben/presentationSource.php?Select_Dnr
  9. [18]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html

   --

References

   1. mailto:hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk
   2. mailto:mjlh...@tiscali.co.uk
   3. mailto:vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu
   4. http://www.tabulatura.com/SWEGUIT.htm