Re: C++ IDE
On 10/5/06, Brecht Machiels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi all, after being fed up by Eclipse's slowness/memory usage, I've decided to see if Vim could replace it. I've already found numerous nice plugin's that each implement part of the functionality of Eclipse: - quickfix - clewn/vimgdb - Taglist - Project Configuring it all to work nicely together is another matter. I could of course spend a couple of days learning how to write vim scripts and rolling my own solution. But as I'm probably not the first to try to use Vim as an IDE, there must be a nice all-in-one solution out there somewhere. Or that's what I thought anyway. I can't seem to find any! Is the anything like Cream that turns Vim into a development environment? I'm thinking about something that includes all those plugins and has easy-to-remember shortcut keys mapped to actions such as build, debug, name completion etc. For name completion, it's probably best to use vim-standard completion keys, there are too few of them anyway. But for everything else, I suggest that you prepare to define your own key mappings. I find often then keys easiest-to-remember for me are keys I mapped myself. Once you mastered to map keys in your vimrc, it's easy and you're on the way to your very own vimrc with your very own key mappings that are easy to remember for *you*. Don't expect that keys that someone X finds rememberable is also rememberable for someone Y. That's why I find it important to make your own mappings. Yakov
Re: C++ IDE
James Oliver wrote: Hi, [Using vim as an IDE] Of course, there are many who use vi as an IDE and I think many use it differently. Does anyone know a good information source where I can see _how_ people are using vim as an IDE? I know http://www.vim.org/tips/tip.php?tip_id=1119 "How to use Vim like an IDE" and http://www.vim.org/tips/tip.php?tip_id=3 "use vim to quickly compile java files". (I see some of you writing you defined shortcuts, list errors, use ctags,... - where can I get an overview or an introduction on how to do all this?) Thanks, James To know how to use Vim (as Vim or as anything else that it can be used as), read the help. ;-) OK, I know it's a tall order. The Vim help is unbelievably complete, but that also means unbelievably bulky. (TANSTAAFL.) But there are several ways to use it. - Cover-to-Cover (not very useful). Start by hitting F1. When you come to the end of that file, you will see a list of other help files. Tackle them one after the other. -- This method should work, in theory, but IMHO it is not the best one for this purpose, among other reasons because it is too tedious. - The Dictionary Game: start anywhere, and when a link (in gvim, something displayed in dark green) looks interesting, follow it, either by double-clicking it with the mouse or by hitting Ctrl-] with the cursor on it. Repeat at will. - Helptag "menu" completion: First, set menu completion mode: :set wildmenu That's once and for all. You can write it into your vimrc (see ":help vimrc"). Then, type ":help " (without the quotes) followed by part of a help topic name, or by a Vim pattern (see ":help pattern-overview") which might match something that interests you. Instead of completing your command with the Enter key, hit the Tab key instead. The bottom status line (where you normally see the file name -- if using split windows, the name of the file in the lower split window) will become a menu of possible entries (if there are two or more: if there is only one you will see it on the command-line). Select by hitting the left and right arrow keys, then hit Enter to accept or Esc to cancel. - Searching the whole text of all helpfiles: :helpgrep where is, again, a Vim pattern which defines what to search for: for instance, \ where \< and \> represent word boundaries. When Vim has searched all the help for matches, it will show the first one (if any). Use ":cn[ext]", ":cp[revious]" (or ":cN[ext]), ":cfir[st]" (or ":cr[ewind]"), ":cla[st]" to navigate the list of matches, or ":cope[n]" to show all the matching lines in a split window (see ":help quickfix"). (In all cases without the quotes and brackets, and you can include or omit all or part of the text in brackets). Best regards, Tony.
RE: C++ IDE
From: Brecht Machiels, Thu, October 05, 2006 1:07 pm > > While we're at it... I recently installed Cream and I very much like > the shortcut key mappings. Unfortunately, Cream disables Vim's modes > by default. The option of "Creamlite" behaviour enables modes, but > removes (most of) the shortcut key mappings along with it. Is there > any way to have the best of both worlds? Of course, Cream *IS* Vim, it uses 100% Vim commands and binaries. You should be able to use it's Expert Mode and turn off insertmode. But this is OT for this list, please email me privately or use the Cream lists if you want to discuss the Cream configuration further. -- Steve Hall [ digitect dancingpaper com ]
Re: C++ IDE
Hello, I have written makefiles in the past. However, I'd like to be able to build my projects on several platforms. From what I hear the autotools require you to read tons and tons of documentation. autotools != Makefile I dislike autotools. I write makefiles by hand. Not Makefile.am files, but actual Makefiles. Oops... What I wrote there does look a tad confusing indeed :) The autotools sentence should've been added to my paragraph about the build tools. Most of these plugins come with a function to toggle/show whatever UI you want. It's a vimrc one-liner to bind it to a key. i.e. doing something like this: http://phraktured.net/screenshots/ss-20060427211348.png is two keypresses (except the help screen). That screenshot is just an "omg look at all the crap" screenshot. I actually used it to help someone further describe what an "IDE" means to them (I get into conversations like this alot). As for build systems, there's alot of the integrated into vim. :make doesn't necessarilly call "make" - it uses makeprg (set via the 'compiler' option). You can use this to easilly expand to whatever build system you want - there's alot already there and on vim.org. I know it's not *that* much work. But I know that when I start messing around with such things, I'll end up tweaking it for days on end. I was hoping someone would reply and say "go to this website and download that nicely set up Vim 'IDE' configuration" :) Now, rant time. A fully "cross platform" build system is a fallacy. I'm actually starting to think that you are absolutely correct. If I had more time, I'd probably try to prove us wrong, but that'll never happen :) Perhaps I can still use Jam as an easier and faster make (if it is indeed as fast as that article claims). Regards, Brecht
Re: C++ IDE
On 10/5/06, Brecht Machiels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello Aaron, > Now, if you want vim to write makefiles and things for you, that's > another story. I have a feeling this is what you want - a step to > integrate "build these files". No. I was looking into build systems for that. I'm very disappointed by what's on offer though. I given Boost.build V2 a shot, but it is over-complex. Or at least the documentation isn't good enough. I also tried SCons. It seems alot more intuitive. But according to http://www.gamesfromwithin.com/articles/0509/000100.html it is rather slow (if that article is to be trusted). Jam is dead, but FTJam seems to be alive. I think I'll try that next (but first check to see if they have some decent docs). While this is a tad offtopic, I will touch on this below. > Things like Eclipse / Visual Studio > have a "files listing" which is used to know which files to compile / > embed / whatever. make does this just fine, and better, IMO, but > requires you to write a Makefile. I have written makefiles in the past. However, I'd like to be able to build my projects on several platforms. From what I hear the autotools require you to read tons and tons of documentation. autotools != Makefile I dislike autotools. I write makefiles by hand. Not Makefile.am files, but actual Makefiles. I just used "IDE" to describe what I was thinking of. What I mean exactly is that I simply want to have all those plugins nicely integrated with keys mapped to them for easy access. As soon as I got that (and found a decent build system), I'll be perfectly satisfied :) Most of these plugins come with a function to toggle/show whatever UI you want. It's a vimrc one-liner to bind it to a key. i.e. doing something like this: http://phraktured.net/screenshots/ss-20060427211348.png is two keypresses (except the help screen). That screenshot is just an "omg look at all the crap" screenshot. I actually used it to help someone further describe what an "IDE" means to them (I get into conversations like this alot). As for build systems, there's alot of the integrated into vim. :make doesn't necessarilly call "make" - it uses makeprg (set via the 'compiler' option). You can use this to easilly expand to whatever build system you want - there's alot already there and on vim.org. Now, rant time. A fully "cross platform" build system is a fallacy. Unless you're unduely smart, you'll run into a problem *somewhere*. Doing everything "zomgcrossplatform" requires layers and layers of additional complexity to push things into "common denominator" land. I prefer, instead, to embrace the differences. As I stated, I like to write makefiles by hand. I also prefer the OS/host based makefile concept: Makefile just passing things off to the correct Makefile.linux or Makefile.solaris or Makefile.mingw. GNU make, or some version thereof is on most systems anyway - at least more than bjam or python+scons or perl+cons. People are scared of Makefiles because of the abomination autotools have cause them to be. Try writing them by hand without autotools a few times. rant over
Re: C++ IDE
Hello Aaron, Now, if you want vim to write makefiles and things for you, that's another story. I have a feeling this is what you want - a step to integrate "build these files". No. I was looking into build systems for that. I'm very disappointed by what's on offer though. I given Boost.build V2 a shot, but it is over-complex. Or at least the documentation isn't good enough. I also tried SCons. It seems alot more intuitive. But according to http://www.gamesfromwithin.com/articles/0509/000100.html it is rather slow (if that article is to be trusted). Jam is dead, but FTJam seems to be alive. I think I'll try that next (but first check to see if they have some decent docs). Things like Eclipse / Visual Studio have a "files listing" which is used to know which files to compile / embed / whatever. make does this just fine, and better, IMO, but requires you to write a Makefile. I have written makefiles in the past. However, I'd like to be able to build my projects on several platforms. From what I hear the autotools require you to read tons and tons of documentation. I guess I could answer better if you defined what an IDE is to you. I get mixed answers on this when I ask people. In short: you are trying to use vim like tools you are used to. It doesn't work that way. vim is vim. It is not Eclipse. I just used "IDE" to describe what I was thinking of. What I mean exactly is that I simply want to have all those plugins nicely integrated with keys mapped to them for easy access. As soon as I got that (and found a decent build system), I'll be perfectly satisfied :) Regards, Brecht
Re: C++ IDE
Hi, [Using vim as an IDE] Of course, there are many who use vi as an IDE and I think many use it differently. Does anyone know a good information source where I can see _how_ people are using vim as an IDE? I know http://www.vim.org/tips/tip.php?tip_id=1119 "How to use Vim like an IDE" and http://www.vim.org/tips/tip.php?tip_id=3 "use vim to quickly compile java files". (I see some of you writing you defined shortcuts, list errors, use ctags,... - where can I get an overview or an introduction on how to do all this?) Thanks, James
RE: C++ IDE
Just to add to what you said about IDE, I moved from MSVC++ to vim. I had to write my own make file, big++ for future. I eventually programmed my function keys to do Make Make clean Make test First error Next error Previous error List all errors It was no where as "nice" as mscv++ but after the transition, I will never go back to an "ide" On my pc now I use cygwin for all my unix compatible work, which is my entire world. > -Original Message- > From: Aaron Griffin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, October 05, 2006 12:50 PM > To: Brecht Machiels > Cc: vim@vim.org > Subject: Re: C++ IDE > > On 10/5/06, Brecht Machiels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > But as I'm probably not the first to try to use Vim as an IDE > > No, you're not. The issue is not that you're trying to use > vim as an IDE, it is that you're trying to use vim as Eclipse. > Define "IDE". > > When I use vim as "an IDE", I use things like ctags to jump > around files, change things here and there, run :make, etc > etc taglist is nice. So are clewn/vimgdb, but not as much > as raw gdb. > > Now, if you want vim to write makefiles and things for you, > that's another story. I have a feeling this is what you want > - a step to integrate "build these files". Things like > Eclipse / Visual Studio have a "files listing" which is used > to know which files to compile / embed / whatever. make does > this just fine, and better, IMO, but requires you to write a Makefile. > > I guess I could answer better if you defined what an IDE is > to you. I get mixed answers on this when I ask people. In > short: you are trying to use vim like tools you are used to. > It doesn't work that way. vim is vim. It is not Eclipse. >
Re: C++ IDE
On 10/5/06, Brecht Machiels <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: But as I'm probably not the first to try to use Vim as an IDE No, you're not. The issue is not that you're trying to use vim as an IDE, it is that you're trying to use vim as Eclipse. Define "IDE". When I use vim as "an IDE", I use things like ctags to jump around files, change things here and there, run :make, etc etc taglist is nice. So are clewn/vimgdb, but not as much as raw gdb. Now, if you want vim to write makefiles and things for you, that's another story. I have a feeling this is what you want - a step to integrate "build these files". Things like Eclipse / Visual Studio have a "files listing" which is used to know which files to compile / embed / whatever. make does this just fine, and better, IMO, but requires you to write a Makefile. I guess I could answer better if you defined what an IDE is to you. I get mixed answers on this when I ask people. In short: you are trying to use vim like tools you are used to. It doesn't work that way. vim is vim. It is not Eclipse.
