Re: Vimtutor translation

2013-10-09 Thread Marcin Szamotulski 
On 18:50 Wed 09 Oct , João Miguel wrote:
> Hi folks,
> I use Vim in Portuguese, and its tutor to learn the basics. It really 
> bothered me the way it was translated. It was painful to read, and often to 
> understand! Then I saw it was a Brazilian Portuguese translation, which is 
> awkward, since I selected Portuguese from Portugal and the Portuguese 
> keyboard when installing Ubuntu. With Firefox it is nice Portuguese, but 
> Chrome is the Brazilian version as well. 
> I'm getting off-topic though: the point is I would very much like to 
> contribute to a good Portuguese translation, if there isn't one; and get help 
> in getting the appropriate translation, if there already is one.
> Thank you in advance,João Miguel
> 
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That's a great idea, I can read when you're done - and check the vim stuff, and 
learn
some Portuguese :)

Best regards,
Marcin

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Re: Vimtutor translation

2013-10-09 Thread Marcin Szamotulski 
On 00:45 Thu 10 Oct , Marcin Szamotulski wrote:
> On 18:50 Wed 09 Oct , João Miguel wrote:
> > Hi folks,
> > I use Vim in Portuguese, and its tutor to learn the basics. It really 
> > bothered me the way it was translated. It was painful to read, and often to 
> > understand! Then I saw it was a Brazilian Portuguese translation, which is 
> > awkward, since I selected Portuguese from Portugal and the Portuguese 
> > keyboard when installing Ubuntu. With Firefox it is nice Portuguese, but 
> > Chrome is the Brazilian version as well. 
> > I'm getting off-topic though: the point is I would very much like to 
> > contribute to a good Portuguese translation, if there isn't one; and get 
> > help in getting the appropriate translation, if there already is one.
> > Thank you in advance,João Miguel  
> > 
> > -- 
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> 
> That's a great idea, I can read when you're done - and check the vim stuff, 
> and learn
> some Portuguese :)
> 
> Best regards,
> Marcin

The source tree contains only:
/runtime/tutor/tutor.pt
/runtime/tutor/tutor.pt.utf-8

and both are marked in the first line as pt_BR so it seems that there is
no Portuguese translation.

Regards,
Marcin

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Re: Vimtutor translation

2013-10-14 Thread Alessandro Antonello 
Hi, João.

I see this issue on many software translations. After the grammatical
agreement between countries speaking Portuguese languages, many softwares
tend to span only one kind of translation. They don't understand that,
although the languages are grammatically the same, they are semantically
 different. There are more differences between Brazilian Portuguese and
Portugal Portuguese then between US English and UK English, IMHO.

We could ask Bram if it agree with keeping two languages translations for
Portuguese: pt_PT and pt_BR. Since there are much more countries speaking
Portugal Portuguese than Brazilian Portuguese, we will have a great benefit
on that.

Regards,


2013/10/9 Marcin Szamotulski 

> On 00:45 Thu 10 Oct , Marcin Szamotulski wrote:
> > On 18:50 Wed 09 Oct , João Miguel wrote:
> > > Hi folks,
> > > I use Vim in Portuguese, and its tutor to learn the basics. It really
> bothered me the way it was translated. It was painful to read, and often to
> understand! Then I saw it was a Brazilian Portuguese translation, which is
> awkward, since I selected Portuguese from Portugal and the Portuguese
> keyboard when installing Ubuntu. With Firefox it is nice Portuguese, but
> Chrome is the Brazilian version as well.
> > > I'm getting off-topic though: the point is I would very much like to
> contribute to a good Portuguese translation, if there isn't one; and get
> help in getting the appropriate translation, if there already is one.
> > > Thank you in advance,João Miguel
> > >
> > > --
> > > --
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> an email to vim_use+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> >
> > That's a great idea, I can read when you're done - and check the vim
> stuff, and learn
> > some Portuguese :)
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Marcin
>
> The source tree contains only:
> /runtime/tutor/tutor.pt
> /runtime/tutor/tutor.pt.utf-8
>
> and both are marked in the first line as pt_BR so it seems that there is
> no Portuguese translation.
>
> Regards,
> Marcin
>
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Re: Vimtutor translation

2013-10-20 Thread Bram Moolenaar 

Alessandro Antonello wrote:

> Hi, João.
> 
> I see this issue on many software translations. After the grammatical
> agreement between countries speaking Portuguese languages, many softwares
> tend to span only one kind of translation. They don't understand that,
> although the languages are grammatically the same, they are semantically
>  different. There are more differences between Brazilian Portuguese and
> Portugal Portuguese then between US English and UK English, IMHO.
> 
> We could ask Bram if it agree with keeping two languages translations for
> Portuguese: pt_PT and pt_BR. Since there are much more countries speaking
> Portugal Portuguese than Brazilian Portuguese, we will have a great benefit
> on that.

If someone can make the Portuguese version then we can add it.  The only
question is which one would be the default.  Perhaps Vim is used more
often in Brazilian Portuguese? It's more about the number of users than
the number of countries.


-- 
There are three kinds of people: Those who can count & those who can't.

 /// Bram Moolenaar -- b...@moolenaar.net -- http://www.Moolenaar.net   \\\
///sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/ \\\
\\\  an exciting new programming language -- http://www.Zimbu.org///
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Re: Vimtutor translation

2013-10-20 Thread Nikolay Pavlov 
On Oct 20, 2013 8:02 PM, "Bram Moolenaar"  wrote:
>
>
> Alessandro Antonello wrote:
>
> > Hi, João.
> >
> > I see this issue on many software translations. After the grammatical
> > agreement between countries speaking Portuguese languages, many
softwares
> > tend to span only one kind of translation. They don't understand that,
> > although the languages are grammatically the same, they are semantically
> >  different. There are more differences between Brazilian Portuguese and
> > Portugal Portuguese then between US English and UK English, IMHO.
> >
> > We could ask Bram if it agree with keeping two languages translations
for
> > Portuguese: pt_PT and pt_BR. Since there are much more countries
speaking
> > Portugal Portuguese than Brazilian Portuguese, we will have a great
benefit
> > on that.
>
> If someone can make the Portuguese version then we can add it.  The only
> question is which one would be the default.  Perhaps Vim is used more
> often in Brazilian Portuguese? It's more about the number of users than
> the number of countries.
>

Does not it check current locale settings to determine the language?

> --
> There are three kinds of people: Those who can count & those who can't.
>
>  /// Bram Moolenaar -- b...@moolenaar.net -- http://www.Moolenaar.net
\\\
> ///sponsor Vim, vote for features -- http://www.Vim.org/sponsor/\\\
> \\\  an exciting new programming language -- http://www.Zimbu.org
 ///
>  \\\help me help AIDS victims -- http://ICCF-Holland.org
 ///
>
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Re: Vimtutor translation

2013-10-22 Thread Anton Shepelev 
Joao Miguel:

> I use Vim in Portuguese [...]

How do you keep normal-mode commands working without
switching to English?  Using mbyte-keymap?

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Re: Vimtutor translation

2013-10-22 Thread Tony Mechelynck 

On 22/10/13 11:01, Anton Shepelev wrote:

Joao Miguel:


I use Vim in Portuguese [...]


How do you keep normal-mode commands working without
switching to English?  Using mbyte-keymap?



I suppose you're joking? On a keyboard for any language using Latin 
script, from Portuguese to Finnish and from Icelandic to Romanian, 
typing ASCII is no problem at all. Even when some letters are normally 
not used in that language, they are almost always still present on the 
keyboard, if only for foreign proper names; and the "special characters" 
such as [ ] { } | etc. may be unusual in _texts_ of that language, but 
_programmers_ (and especially C programmers) speaking that language need 
them, so they made sure they had access to them, if only with the help 
of the AltGr key (the Alt key on the right side of the space bar, which 
on most non-English keyboards is used to produce "strange" characters).


BTW, what I'm typing now is on the Belgian version of the AZERTY 
keyboard layout, similar but not identical to what they use in France. 
See http://users.skynet.be/antoine.mechelynck/other/keybbe.htm for 
details, and for how I have access to an almost incredible wealth of 
characters thanks to the Shift and AltGr modifiers, used separately or 
together, and to the concept of "dead keys" (modifier prefixes pressed 
and released before using another key).


For the rare normal-mode commands which I don't find on my keyboard, or 
which are too awkward for frequent use, I use the :map command with F 
keys as the {lhs} (e.g. for the Ctrl-] constantly used when navigating 
the help, I have

:map  
in my vimrc; otherwise it would be Ctrl-AltGr-$ which I know about now, 
but it took me quite a long time to find that combination when I was 
learning to use Vim).



Best regards,
Tony.
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Re: Vimtutor translation

2013-10-22 Thread BPJ 

2013-10-22 12:14, Tony Mechelynck skrev:


BTW, what I'm typing now is on the Belgian version of the AZERTY
keyboard layout, similar but not identical to what they use in
France. See
http://users.skynet.be/antoine.mechelynck/other/keybbe.htm for
details, and for how I have access to an almost incredible wealth
of characters thanks to the Shift and AltGr modifiers, used
separately or together, and to the concept of "dead keys"
(modifier prefixes pressed and released before using another key).


Have you considered replacing those duplicates with something
more useful?  It's kind of easy:



I've also gotten rid of some of the mathy characters which I
hardly ever use.  In Vim I use keymaps of course!



For the rare normal-mode commands which I don't find on my
keyboard, or which are too awkward for frequent use, I use the
:map command with F keys as the {lhs} (e.g. for the Ctrl-]
constantly used when navigating the help, I have
 :map  
in my vimrc; otherwise it would be Ctrl-AltGr-$ which I know about
now, but it took me quite a long time to find that combination
when I was learning to use Vim).


Best regards,
Tony.


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