Re: C650 or 7100/80?

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- Ted Parks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Thanks for the responses, which were very helpful.
> 
> The 7100 is running System 7.5, the C650, OS 8.1. I
> think part of the
> problem might also be that I was running a 68K
> version of iCab on the
> 7100 because its OS wouldn't allow the PPC version
> of iCab. I think my
> first upgrade will be RAM for the 7100.

Ah. Yep, more RAM and upping the PPC to at least 8.1
will help a lot. Mac OS was still running lots of 68k
code in PPC installs in 7.5~7.6.1. The 7100 can run
9.1 but you must boot off a 9.1 CD to install.

> I was not sure of the parameters of this list,
> especially because of
> Apple's ever-widening definition of "vintage."

This list is supposed to be mainly for the 68030
desktop and all in one Macs, but we do "stray"
into the 68000, 68020 and 68040 stuff and
occaisionally
all the PPC Macs when dealing with networking them
to the 68k ones. :)

=
Subatomic conspiracy group: The Free Mesons.
Yes, they do drink Lepton Tea. At the Absolute Zero Lounge they drink iced Lepton Tea. 
They've even been to Dr. Strange's Charm School.

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Re: C650 or 7100/80?

[the pickle]

At 08:03 -0800 on 05/02/03, Ted Parks wrote:

>The 7100 is running System 7.5, the C650, OS 8.1. I think part of the
>problem might also be that I was running a 68K version of iCab on the
>7100 because its OS wouldn't allow the PPC version of iCab. I think my
>first upgrade will be RAM for the 7100.

Steal the RAM from the 650 and then upgrade to 8.1 on the 7100 and you'll be
MUCH better off.
-- 

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Re: C650 or 7100/80?

[Robyn Lyons]

In this case, vintage is referring to 68030 and lower machines. '040 
processors have their own little spot with the Quadlist.

-Robyn

On Wednesday, February 5, 2003, at 10:03 AM, Ted Parks wrote:

> I was not sure of the parameters of this list, especially because of
> Apple's ever-widening definition of "vintage." Again, I really
> appreciate the responses and felt they helped me understand my favorite
> Mac right now, the 68040 C650 on my desk.


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Re: C650 or 7100/80?

[R. A. Cantrell]

on 2/5/03 10:03 AM, Ted Parks at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> I was not sure of the parameters of this list, especially because of
> Apple's ever-widening definition of "vintage." Again, I really
> appreciate the responses and felt they helped me understand my favorite
> Mac right now, the 68040 C650 on my desk.
You'll get more help for the 7100 on the 1st PowerMacs list.


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Re: C650 or 7100/80?

[Ted Parks]

Thanks for the responses, which were very helpful.

The 7100 is running System 7.5, the C650, OS 8.1. I think part of the
problem might also be that I was running a 68K version of iCab on the
7100 because its OS wouldn't allow the PPC version of iCab. I think my
first upgrade will be RAM for the 7100.

I was not sure of the parameters of this list, especially because of
Apple's ever-widening definition of "vintage." Again, I really
appreciate the responses and felt they helped me understand my favorite
Mac right now, the 68040 C650 on my desk.

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Re: C650 or 7100/80?

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- Benjamin Corrow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> what is BTW in regard to the 7100?

BTW= By the way...

=
Subatomic conspiracy group: The Free Mesons.
Yes, they do drink Lepton Tea. At the Absolute Zero Lounge they drink iced Lepton Tea. 
They've even been to Dr. Strange's Charm School.

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Re: C650 or 7100/80?

[Benjamin Corrow]

what is BTW in regard to the 7100?

On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 04:38  PM, Phil Beesley wrote:

>
> On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 08:30 PM, Ted Parks
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> After connecting both my Centris 650 and 7100/80 to DSL by ethernet,
>> the
>> Centris seems to load web pages faster. The 7100/80 has only 16 megs
>> of RAM,
>> while the Centris has about a 100. Also, the 7100 is connected to
>> ethernet
>> through a transceiver.
>>
>> My questions:
>> 1) How much difference does the amount of RAM make in how quickly a
>> machine
>> loads web pages, in particular, and how fast it runs other common
>> applications, in general? If both the Centris and the 7100/80 had
>> equal RAM,
>> would the 7100 be noticeably faster?
>
> A couple of 16Mb or 32Mb SIMMs will make a huge difference in the 7100,
> especially if you have enough RAM to turn off virtual memory. More RAM
> will also allow you to run Mac OS 8.6 which is also faster than
> previous versions. A more modern SCSI hard drive will also help. Sample
> a few different browsers and see which one you like. Try setting the
> browser cache folder to run from a RAM disk.
>
>> 2) Knowing little about ethernet, my understanding is that the
>> transceiver
>> on the 7100/80 only transmits data at the lower end of the 10/100 
>> baseT
>> ethernet spectrum. Is it possible to get a NuBus card that would
>> enable a
>> faster ethernet connection? Is the NuBus ethernet card I have in the
>> Centris
>> faster than the built-in AAUI ethernet port in the 7100/80?
>
> 100Mbps NuBus ethernet cards are available (try eBay or the swaplists)
> but your 7100 doesn't have the processing or disk I/O to benefit. The
> slowest bit on your network is the DSL link and that is considerably
> slower than 10Mbps ethernet. Fit as much RAM as you can pick up cheaply
> as your first upgrade.
>
> BTW The 7100 is off topic on this list; the 650 is once removed from
> the Mac II series so it just about counts.
>
> Phil
> ---
> "Most engineering products can be readily adapted to suit their
> originally intended purpose" -- C H Thornycroft
>
>
> -- 
> Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...
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>


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Re: C650 or 7100/80?

[Dustin Rinebold]

>> My questions:
>> 1) How much difference does the amount of RAM make
>> in how quickly a machine
>> loads web pages, in particular, and how fast it runs
>> other common
>> applications, in general? If both the Centris and
>> the 7100/80 had equal RAM,
>> would the 7100 be noticeably faster?

Everyone else has touched on the virtual memory thing. That's the first 
thing I'd look at too. Now, if VM isn't being used on either computer 
and both browsers have the same memory partition allocated - it 
shouldn't matter at all.

Also, what browser are you using? I've been told that a lot of the 
early browsers weren't particularly optimized for PPC machines - even 
if they were native. I've run some browsers that were definitely faster 
on my 840av than my 6100 - even with both having the same memory 
allocations, and other browsers (usually later ones) show just the 
opposite. This may be what's happening. I dunno. Just something else to 
check out.


> =
> Subatomic conspiracy group: The Free Mesons.
> Yes, they do drink Lepton Tea.
> (There are very few good jokes in quantum physics.)

Here's one of my favorites:

Heizenberg is driving down the freeway one afternoon and gets pulled 
over by the Highway Patrol. The officer walks up to the window of 
Heizenberg's car and asks, "Excuse me sir, do you know how fast you 
were going?"

"Nope." replies Heizenberg. "But I know where I am!"


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Re: C650 or 7100/80?

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- Ted Parks <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> After connecting both my Centris 650 and 7100/80 to
> DSL by ethernet, the
> Centris seems to load web pages faster. The 7100/80
> has only 16 megs of RAM,
> while the Centris has about a 100. Also, the 7100 is
> connected to ethernet through a transceiver.
> 
> My questions:
> 1) How much difference does the amount of RAM make
> in how quickly a machine
> loads web pages, in particular, and how fast it runs
> other common
> applications, in general? If both the Centris and
> the 7100/80 had equal RAM,
> would the 7100 be noticeably faster?

The amount of RAM any computer has makes a big
difference in how fast they can work. 16megs is
just choking down the 7100's capabilities. Real RAM
is faster than using virtual memory on the hard drive.
With only 16 megs RAM and virtual memory on, when
the browser runs out of space in memory to put what's
on the page it has to write it to the swap space on
the hard drive. Most likely on that system the only
part of the page in RAM is what's currently displayed
in the browser window.

What System/Mac OS versions are on those two?

=
Subatomic conspiracy group: The Free Mesons.
Yes, they do drink Lepton Tea.
(There are very few good jokes in quantum physics.)

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Re: C650 or 7100/80?

[Robyn Lyons]

On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 12:22 PM, Ted Parks wrote:

> My questions:
> 1) How much difference does the amount of RAM make in how quickly a 
> machine
> loads web pages, in particular, and how fast it runs other common
> applications, in general? If both the Centris and the 7100/80 had 
> equal RAM,
> would the 7100 be noticeably faster?
>
Ram is good. 32MB under 7.5 is considered the minimum to get good web 
performance out of a PPC machine. 68k can make do with less. Assuming 
that you are using a PPC native web browser and running 7.5.5, you 
should see quite a nice speed boost. If you use a 68k app, it'll be 
about as fast as a IIci because of the PPC having to emulate a 68k.

> 2) Knowing little about ethernet, my understanding is that the 
> transceiver
> on the 7100/80 only transmits data at the lower end of the 10/100 baseT
> ethernet spectrum. Is it possible to get a NuBus card that would 
> enable a
> faster ethernet connection? Is the NuBus ethernet card I have in the 
> Centris
> faster than the built-in AAUI ethernet port in the 7100/80?

Transceivers aren't any slower than a Nubus or PCI card. Yes a 10BT is 
slower than a 100BT, but neither would max out an internet connection. 
100BT is only needed if you have a LAN and want to move big files fast. 
Technically, an AAUI port can handle 100BT, but they never made them 
that fast.

-Robyn


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Re: C650 or 7100/80?

[the pickle]

At 10:22 -0800 on 04/02/03, Ted Parks wrote:

>After connecting both my Centris 650 and 7100/80 to DSL by ethernet, the
>Centris seems to load web pages faster. The 7100/80 has only 16 megs of RAM,

Are they using identical browsers with identical RAM allotments?

What OS are they running?

>1) How much difference does the amount of RAM make in how quickly a machine
>loads web pages, in particular, and how fast it runs other common
>applications, in general? If both the Centris and the 7100/80 had equal RAM,
>would the 7100 be noticeably faster?

Depends a LOT on the browser and not as much as you might think on the CPU.

>2) Knowing little about ethernet, my understanding is that the transceiver
>on the 7100/80 only transmits data at the lower end of the 10/100 baseT
>ethernet spectrum. Is it possible to get a NuBus card that would enable a
>faster ethernet connection? Is the NuBus ethernet card I have in the Centris
>faster than the built-in AAUI ethernet port in the 7100/80?

It's very doubtful; there are few Macs before the PCI Power Macs that can fully
utilise a 10/100Base-T connection because of their slow SCSI.
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
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Re: C650 or 7100/80?

[Phil Beesley]

On Tuesday, February 4, 2003, at 08:30 PM, Ted Parks 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> After connecting both my Centris 650 and 7100/80 to DSL by ethernet, 
> the
> Centris seems to load web pages faster. The 7100/80 has only 16 megs 
> of RAM,
> while the Centris has about a 100. Also, the 7100 is connected to 
> ethernet
> through a transceiver.
>
> My questions:
> 1) How much difference does the amount of RAM make in how quickly a 
> machine
> loads web pages, in particular, and how fast it runs other common
> applications, in general? If both the Centris and the 7100/80 had 
> equal RAM,
> would the 7100 be noticeably faster?

A couple of 16Mb or 32Mb SIMMs will make a huge difference in the 7100, 
especially if you have enough RAM to turn off virtual memory. More RAM 
will also allow you to run Mac OS 8.6 which is also faster than 
previous versions. A more modern SCSI hard drive will also help. Sample 
a few different browsers and see which one you like. Try setting the 
browser cache folder to run from a RAM disk.

> 2) Knowing little about ethernet, my understanding is that the 
> transceiver
> on the 7100/80 only transmits data at the lower end of the 10/100 baseT
> ethernet spectrum. Is it possible to get a NuBus card that would 
> enable a
> faster ethernet connection? Is the NuBus ethernet card I have in the 
> Centris
> faster than the built-in AAUI ethernet port in the 7100/80?

100Mbps NuBus ethernet cards are available (try eBay or the swaplists) 
but your 7100 doesn't have the processing or disk I/O to benefit. The 
slowest bit on your network is the DSL link and that is considerably 
slower than 10Mbps ethernet. Fit as much RAM as you can pick up cheaply 
as your first upgrade.

BTW The 7100 is off topic on this list; the 650 is once removed from 
the Mac II series so it just about counts.

Phil
---
"Most engineering products can be readily adapted to suit their 
originally intended purpose" -- C H Thornycroft


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C650 or 7100/80?

[Ted Parks]

After connecting both my Centris 650 and 7100/80 to DSL by ethernet, the
Centris seems to load web pages faster. The 7100/80 has only 16 megs of RAM,
while the Centris has about a 100. Also, the 7100 is connected to ethernet
through a transceiver.

My questions:
1) How much difference does the amount of RAM make in how quickly a machine
loads web pages, in particular, and how fast it runs other common
applications, in general? If both the Centris and the 7100/80 had equal RAM,
would the 7100 be noticeably faster?

2) Knowing little about ethernet, my understanding is that the transceiver
on the 7100/80 only transmits data at the lower end of the 10/100 baseT
ethernet spectrum. Is it possible to get a NuBus card that would enable a
faster ethernet connection? Is the NuBus ethernet card I have in the Centris
faster than the built-in AAUI ethernet port in the 7100/80?

Thanks,
Ted Parks


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