Re: IIfx VS 386DX/40 Re: IIfx online Re: Hi-Spec IIci finished
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 21:04:34 -0700 (PDT) From: Gregg Eshelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: IIfx VS 386DX/40 Re: IIfx online Re: Hi-Spec IIci finished --- Ken Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It uses 30 pin SIMMs. It's an AMD 386DX40, and has a IIT 3C87-40 coprocessor installed. Vroom! :) The IIT won't work with Linux or BSD, though, as it has some kind of breakage. If I have an ISA video card, it's probably something pretty basic like a Cirrus Logic or Trident board. That takes more digging ;) Yeah, not too many 24bit 2D video/windows accelerators were made for 16bit ISA slots. Though Sigma designs did make a triple threat 24bit acclerator, Pro Audio Spectrum 16 and 8bit Trantor SCSI card all in one 16bit ISA board. SCSI didn't have a bios so was not bootable. Personally, I'd go for a Tseng ET-4000-based video card. The old Diamond SpeedStar comes to mind. I don't think I have access to a SCSI card for this, as I could never afford to have SCSI on a PC. Well, that's not true... I have a SCSI Zip drive, and it would have come with a cheapo SCSI board. Don't know if you can boot off of those though. Nope, but eBay is literally littered with old, cheap, 16bit Adaptec SCSI cards that are bootable. Only one choice- Adaptec 1540/1542. One of the few (only?) bus-mastering ISA cards. System 7.6.1 on this IIci claims copywrite from 83-96, so I would think that 7.5.5 would be a similar era to the original release of Win95. 1996. Hmm, so it could be 7.6.1 VS Win95B. Reasonable, but I'm not sure going to Win95B is really going to gain you anything on that hardware. This raises a question, though- original OS vs. supported OS. IIRC, the IIfx shipped back in the System 6 era (early System 7, anyway) and the 386/40 came out sometime in the Win 3.1 era. OTOH, by the time Win95 came out, most shipping systems were some kind of 486 or very early pentium. The point is... should this be a 7.1/3.1 faceoff or a 7.5.5/95 faceoff? I gotta work a little harder if we really want to do this. The old PC stuff is all in pieces, and in the far, dark corners of the basement with all the spiders and dustbunnies... seems fitting though ;) Eww, you're making this sound like a computer version of Hellraiser. ;) But it's all for science, or at least good fun, right? True :-) john -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
IIfx VS 386DX/40 Re: IIfx online Re: Hi-Spec IIci finished
--- Ken Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know how serious you are about this, but I'm pretty sure that I have a 386/40 PC board in my basement (I only wish I threw out the old junk... I also just got a IIfx, but don't know what it has in it, other than a sticker on the outside that says Runs OK :) If you really want to do this, let me know, and I'll start digging for 386 parts. Ken See if it uses 30pin or 72pin RAM. That shouldn't make too much difference. Many of those also had 64-128K cache onboard too. The main problems would be finding a suitable ISA videocard and SCSI controller. I don't have any such parts anymore. What web browsers would be suitable for the testing? IE 5.5SP2 will run on Win95B on the 386 but 68k IE stops at 5.0. Netscape 4.79 would run on the PC but for 68k Mac it stops at 4.08. Could stay away from the big names and stick with Opera, Eudora etc. What year was 7.5.5 released? Win95B came along in 1996. Could use Win95 plus the service pack to make it Win95a along with the Y2K update. Then both systems would be quite patchy. ;) = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: IIfx VS 386DX/40 Re: IIfx online Re: Hi-Spec IIci finished
On Tue, 20 Aug 2002, Gregg Eshelman wrote: --- Ken Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know how serious you are about this, but I'm pretty sure that I have a 386/40 PC board in my basement (I only wish I threw out the old junk... I also just got a IIfx, but don't know what it has in it, other than a sticker on the outside that says Runs OK :) If you really want to do this, let me know, and I'll start digging for 386 parts. Ken See if it uses 30pin or 72pin RAM. That shouldn't make too much difference. Many of those also had 64-128K cache onboard too. The main problems would be finding a suitable ISA videocard and SCSI controller. I don't have any such parts anymore. It uses 30 pin SIMMs. It's an AMD 386DX40, and has a IIT 3C87-40 coprocessor installed. If I have an ISA video card, it's probably something pretty basic like a Cirrus Logic or Trident board. That takes more digging ;) I don't think I have access to a SCSI card for this, as I could never afford to have SCSI on a PC. Well, that's not true... I have a SCSI Zip drive, and it would have come with a cheapo SCSI board. Don't know if you can boot off of those though. What web browsers would be suitable for the testing? IE 5.5SP2 will run on Win95B on the 386 but 68k IE stops at 5.0. Netscape 4.79 would run on the PC but for 68k Mac it stops at 4.08. Could stay away from the big names and stick with Opera, Eudora etc. I would say go with 4.08 or 3.04, just use the same version on each one. What year was 7.5.5 released? Win95B came along in 1996. Could use Win95 plus the service pack to make it Win95a along with the Y2K update. Then both systems would be quite patchy. ;) System 7.6.1 on this IIci claims copywrite from 83-96, so I would think that 7.5.5 would be a similar era to the original release of Win95. I gotta work a little harder if we really want to do this. The old PC stuff is all in pieces, and in the far, dark corners of the basement with all the spiders and dustbunnies... seems fitting though ;) Ken -- Ken Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.pcisys.net/~kscott This is the day that the Lord has made; I will rejoice and be glad in it! -- Psalm 118:24 -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: IIfx VS 386DX/40 Re: IIfx online Re: Hi-Spec IIci finished
Remember guys, the IIfx had IOP's! This was an advanced feature. Similar to IBM mainframes with channel processors for I/O. I don't know if PC's ever had that kind of advanced hardware. Bill Zipprich home: 303-922-5293 cell: 206-604-0844 -Original Message- From: Vintage Macs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of Gregg Eshelman Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 6:52 PM To: Vintage Macs Subject: IIfx VS 386DX/40 Re: IIfx online Re: Hi-Spec IIci finished --- Ken Scott [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't know how serious you are about this, but I'm pretty sure that I have a 386/40 PC board in my basement (I only wish I threw out the old junk... I also just got a IIfx, but don't know what it has in it, other than a sticker on the outside that says Runs OK :) If you really want to do this, let me know, and I'll start digging for 386 parts. Ken See if it uses 30pin or 72pin RAM. That shouldn't make too much difference. Many of those also had 64-128K cache onboard too. The main problems would be finding a suitable ISA videocard and SCSI controller. I don't have any such parts anymore. What web browsers would be suitable for the testing? IE 5.5SP2 will run on Win95B on the 386 but 68k IE stops at 5.0. Netscape 4.79 would run on the PC but for 68k Mac it stops at 4.08. Could stay away from the big names and stick with Opera, Eudora etc. What year was 7.5.5 released? Win95B came along in 1996. Could use Win95 plus the service pack to make it Win95a along with the Y2K update. Then both systems would be quite patchy. ;) = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: IIfx VS 386DX/40 Re: IIfx online Re: Hi-Spec IIci finished
--- Bill Zipprich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember guys, the IIfx had IOP's! This was an advanced feature. Similar to IBM mainframes with channel processors for I/O. I don't know if PC's ever had that kind of advanced hardware. 16550N UARTS, that ought to at least equal the IIfx serial ports with the IOPs turned on. The rest of the IOP functions would be irrelevant to an internet test. :) Hmmm, would need a good ISA multi I/O card too since I don't recall any 386DX/40 having much if any integrated input/oputput. Heh, the IIfx definately has an edge in expandability. The 386 will need a video card, SCSI card, and I/O card just to get started. = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: IIfx VS 386DX/40 Re: IIfx online Re: Hi-Spec IIci finished
The IIfx IOP's would certainly benefit the Internet experience as you use the mouse to navigate. Also consider that the cursor (hardware cursor) is controlled via the IOP's as well. Bill - Original Message - From: Gregg Eshelman [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Vintage Macs [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, August 20, 2002 9:43 PM Subject: Re: IIfx VS 386DX/40 Re: IIfx online Re: Hi-Spec IIci finished --- Bill Zipprich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Remember guys, the IIfx had IOP's! This was an advanced feature. Similar to IBM mainframes with channel processors for I/O. I don't know if PC's ever had that kind of advanced hardware. 16550N UARTS, that ought to at least equal the IIfx serial ports with the IOPs turned on. The rest of the IOP functions would be irrelevant to an internet test. :) Hmmm, would need a good ISA multi I/O card too since I don't recall any 386DX/40 having much if any integrated input/oputput. Heh, the IIfx definately has an edge in expandability. The 386 will need a video card, SCSI card, and I/O card just to get started. = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
Re: IIfx VS 386DX/40 Re: IIfx online Re: Hi-Spec IIci finished
--- Bill Zipprich [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: The IIfx IOP's would certainly benefit the Internet experience as you use the mouse to navigate. Also consider that the cursor (hardware cursor) is controlled via the IOP's as well. Well, I suppose he can start by just assembling whatever he can find into a working box then see how it fares VS the IIfx. :) Hmmm, been so long since I've been immersed in the world of everything ISA I can't recall what, if any, ISA based video accelerators had hardware cursor support. I know several VLB cards did but the 386 didn't support VLB. (Though some DX40 boards had VLB slots that only worked if you installed a 386-to-486 upgrade like a DLC2/80.) An ISA site like the MCA or NuBus Mafia would have to be called The ISA Global Organized Crime and Illuminati Organization to cover the thousands of different cards. ;) = http://www.junkscience.com All the Junk that's fit to Debunk! __ Do You Yahoo!? HotJobs - Search Thousands of New Jobs http://www.hotjobs.com -- Vintage Macs is sponsored by http://lowendmac.com/ and... Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com | Enter To Win A | -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299 | Free iBook! | Support Low End Mac http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html Vintage Macs list info: http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml The FAQ:http://macfaq.org/ Send list messages to: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To unsubscribe, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] For digest mode, email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscription questions: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/ Using a Mac? Free email more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
