Musings

[Steve Conrad]

Does Apple just want the older Macs, Apples and varied clones to just die
off so we will all be forced to buy brand spanking new G4's?
They seem to stomp on anyone who runs a site supporting older machines
these days.
My proof? Fire up Anarchie and see how many of those sites are Empty or
simply No Longer Exist (At last count.11 Empty, 3 with No Mac Stuff
Anymore, 1 Name Server Didn't Exist, 1 is nothing but Endless Empty
Folders, 1 has No Anon Function (yet my email address and info is in my
Prefs), 14 No Longer Exist, 1 Server Didn't Answer and 6 worked).

Steve Conrad
1818 Franklin
Lexington, MO 64067
660-259-7176 http://sasha91.0pi.com


   It is no secret (nor should it come as any surprise) that humankind's
most noble impulses often surface during the most trying of times, that
human spirit rises to the challenge when faced with adversity, that human
strength is born from human failings...Is it any wonder, then, that the
SDF-1 crew became a tighter family after the fortress had been exiled than
it had before?

 From the log of Captain (later Admiral) Henry Gloval



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Re: Musings

[the pickle]

At 17:34 -0600 on 22/08/01, Steve Conrad wrote:

>Does Apple just want the older Macs, Apples and varied clones to just die
>off so we will all be forced to buy brand spanking new G4's?

Yes.  Well, no and yes.  They want us to buy new G4s, but I don't suppose
they care much about older machines, beyond the possible (very cynical)
view that their existence might hurt new Mac sales.

>They seem to stomp on anyone who runs a site supporting older machines
>these days.
>My proof? Fire up Anarchie and see how many of those sites are Empty or

That's not proof.  I hate to sound argumentative, but Anarchie was last
distributed in the late 1990s, and IIRC, the version you have is from about
'97 or so.  I challenge you to find more than about six-of-25 of ANY kind
of Mac-oriented server that have been around since then and were big enough
then to get noticed.

Info-Mac has moved since then.  A lot of the Info-Mac mirrors have
disappeared.  Pacific Hi-Tech no longer distributes the CD collections of
the Info-Mac archive that they used to.  MacUser is defunct in the US.
MacWeek is dead.

Broadband 'net access has killed a lot of that sort of thing and moved a
lot more of it to less-obvious places, like Hotline (which was essentially
nothing in 1997) and its variants and Gnutella (which didn't even exist
until last year).

Somehow I don't think Apple has much (if anything) to do with that
disappearance, except for the obvious cases like with the Mac 512 User
Group being prohibited from distributing older OSes any more.

p
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Re: Musings

[Steve Conrad]

I have several versions of Anarchie (and Fetch and TurboGopher, etc) and I
know that some of the schools have said that the reason they pulled down
their archives was due to pressure from Apple and fees involved in their
maintaining them. UIowa said this was why Liquify (used to be Panda and
then it was Grind) was taken down.

>
>That's not proof.  I hate to sound argumentative, but Anarchie was last
>distributed in the late 1990s, and IIRC, the version you have is from about
>'97 or so.  I challenge you to find more than about six-of-25 of ANY kind
>of Mac-oriented server that have been around since then and were big enough
>then to get noticed.
>
>Info-Mac has moved since then.  A lot of the Info-Mac mirrors have
>disappeared.  Pacific Hi-Tech no longer distributes the CD collections of
>the Info-Mac archive that they used to.  MacUser is defunct in the US.
>MacWeek is dead.
>
>Broadband 'net access has killed a lot of that sort of thing and moved a
>lot more of it to less-obvious places, like Hotline (which was essentially
>nothing in 1997) and its variants and Gnutella (which didn't even exist
>until last year).
>
>Somehow I don't think Apple has much (if anything) to do with that
>disappearance, except for the obvious cases like with the Mac 512 User
>Group being prohibited from distributing older OSes any more.
>
>p
>_
>the pickle

Steve Conrad
1818 Franklin
Lexington, MO 64067
660-259-7176 http://sasha91.0pi.com


   It is no secret (nor should it come as any surprise) that humankind's
most noble impulses often surface during the most trying of times, that
human spirit rises to the challenge when faced with adversity, that human
strength is born from human failings...Is it any wonder, then, that the
SDF-1 crew became a tighter family after the fortress had been exiled than
it had before?

 From the log of Captain (later Admiral) Henry Gloval



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Re: Musings

[the pickle]

At 17:56 -0600 on 22/08/01, Steve Conrad wrote:

>I have several versions of Anarchie (and Fetch and TurboGopher, etc) and I
>know that some of the schools have said that the reason they pulled down
>their archives was due to pressure from Apple and fees involved in their

Doesn't surprise me too much since Apple got really anal about *mirroring*
licences about the same time they got anal about Mac 512.

What I can't figure, though, is why (or anyone else) would care if there
are 25 mirrors of the same stuff.  Anything you need online,
applications-wise, is either at Info-Mac, AMUG, Apple FTP, or a pirate site.

There are still plenty of obscure sites out there; I for one think it's
probably a GOOD thing that Interarchy doesn't have bookmarks to them any
more because it means thousands of people aren't getting a built-in
shortcut to it, which means that Apple is less likely to find out about it
if it's something they don't want posted.

I could cite several examples, but, well, that would draw attention to them.

p
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Re: Musings

[Steve Conrad]

Well, I know that with Anarchie you cannot get to mirrors.aol.com (last
time I used Fetch you could though). I know the addresses to the sites of a
few friends, but having more sites (not necessarily mirrors of each other)
would be nice.

Steve Conrad
1818 Franklin
Lexington, MO 64067
660-259-7176 http://sasha91.0pi.com


   It is no secret (nor should it come as any surprise) that humankind's
most noble impulses often surface during the most trying of times, that
human spirit rises to the challenge when faced with adversity, that human
strength is born from human failings...Is it any wonder, then, that the
SDF-1 crew became a tighter family after the fortress had been exiled than
it had before?

 From the log of Captain (later Admiral) Henry Gloval



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Re: Musings

[the pickle]

At 18:07 -0600 on 22/08/01, Steve Conrad wrote:

>Well, I know that with Anarchie you cannot get to mirrors.aol.com (last

H...maybe Peter has a reason for not allowing older versions of
Anarchie to be distributed...

p
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Re: Musings

[b.b.]

>Does Apple just want the older Macs, Apples and varied clones to just die
>off so we will all be forced to buy brand spanking new G4's?

Yes.  We are the thorn in Apple's side.  Remember, Apple is just 
another evil Korporation, and Steve Jobs is every bit as evil as Bill 
Gates.  They're both reptiles.  We are here, loving the machines, the 
old Macs, and showing people they don't NEED a G4...how could they 
NOT want us out of the picture?  Apple, in the final analysis, is 
really just the "pretty face of evil."

b.b.


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Re: Musings

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 17:34 -0600 on 22/08/01, Steve Conrad wrote:
> 
> >Does Apple just want the older Macs, Apples and
> varied clones to just die
> >off so we will all be forced to buy brand spanking
> new G4's?
> 
> Yes.  Well, no and yes.  They want us to buy new
> G4s, but I don't suppose
> they care much about older machines, beyond the
> possible (very cynical)
> view that their existence might hurt new Mac sales.

They're certainly doing a "good" job of irritating
lots of people with their latest changes to the
apple.com site. :P

=
"The earth swarms with inhabitants. Why then should nature,
which is fruitful to an excess here, be so very barren in
the rest of the planets?" Bernard de Fontenelle, 1686
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
My ICQ# 16024947

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Re: Musings

[Marten van de Kraats]

>  >Does Apple just want the older Macs, Apples and varied clones to just die
>>off so we will all be forced to buy brand spanking new G4's?
>
>Yes.  We are the thorn in Apple's side.  Remember, Apple is just
>another evil Korporation, and Steve Jobs is every bit as evil as Bill
>Gates.  They're both reptiles.  We are here, loving the machines, the
>old Macs, and showing people they don't NEED a G4...how could they
>NOT want us out of the picture?  Apple, in the final analysis, is
>really just the "pretty face of evil."
>
I'm sorry, but I don't think Apple sees us as the thorn in their 
side. We are just a rather peculiar set of customers (most of us also 
have newer macs around). Contrary to some other companies out there, 
Apple does offer quite a bit of support to people with totally out of 
date hardware.
Apple is a company trying to make money to feed all of its 10.000 
employees and it does that with making rather nice products. You can 
in no way compare it to the monster of the Dark Side that has nothing 
else on its mind than TOTAL CONTROL on all information, with at the 
end the Fourth Reich. That is  the evil one. Most corporations aren't 
like that. They believe in fair competition.

I don't know what you have against corporations, but personally I 
distrust the small local shops and little entrepeneurs a lot more 
than the big corporations.

LONG LIVE APPLE! LONG LIVE APPLE!

(coming from a totally corrupted capitalist pig AAPL shareholder)

Marten
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Re: Musings

[Dan Knight]

Marten van de Kraats writes:

>>>Does Apple just want the older Macs, Apples and varied clones to just
>>>die off so we will all be forced to buy brand spanking new G4's?
>>
>>Yes.  We are the thorn in Apple's side.  Remember, Apple is just
>>another evil Korporation, and Steve Jobs is every bit as evil as Bill
>>Gates.  They're both reptiles.  We are here, loving the machines, the
>>old Macs, and showing people they don't NEED a G4...how could they
>>NOT want us out of the picture?
>>
>I'm sorry, but I don't think Apple sees us as the thorn in their 
>side. We are just a rather peculiar set of customers (most of us also 
>have newer macs around).

Agreed. Chrysler must feel the same way about MoPar Madness -- all those 
car junkies keeping those 1960s and early-70s cars running like new. 
Sure, Chrysler would benefit if they all bought a new Chrysler 300, but 
their mania certainly does nothing to diminish Chrysler's reputation.

I'm sure there are plenty of other analogies -- Harley owners, tube 
electronics mavens, etc.

Like the MoPar crew, it doesn't really matter to our passion for older 
Macs whether Apple loves us, hates us, or ignores us. At the very least, 
we advocate for the Mac -- new and used -- and do what we can to keep the 
installed base from shrinking.


Dan Knight, president, Cobweb Publishing, Inc.
  publisher, Low End Mac
  publisher, Digital-Views.com  
  publisher, Digigraphica

I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary
ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong
end of a telescope and that enables you to laugh at life's realities.
  -- Dr. Seuss


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Re: Musings

[Gary Adams]

Or they think that people will expect them to be responsible if someone else
hands out old software that they no longer wish to provide support for and
someone's computer crashes with High dollar information on it. I believe
they have stated in the dark past that they do wish people to upgrade their
systems and keep them selling new ones rather than provide support. I am
happy that Apples can be used far longer in the upgrade cycle than their
rivals "Microjunk" and "Dumbtel"'
Just a thought

-Original Message-
From: Vintage Macs [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]On Behalf Of
Dan Knight
Sent: Friday, August 24, 2001 8:59 AM
To: Vintage Macs
Subject: Re: Musings


Marten van de Kraats writes:

>>>Does Apple just want the older Macs, Apples and varied clones to just
>>>die off so we will all be forced to buy brand spanking new G4's?
>>
>>Yes.  We are the thorn in Apple's side.  Remember, Apple is just
>>another evil Korporation, and Steve Jobs is every bit as evil as Bill
>>Gates.  They're both reptiles.  We are here, loving the machines, the
>>old Macs, and showing people they don't NEED a G4...how could they
>>NOT want us out of the picture?
>>
>I'm sorry, but I don't think Apple sees us as the thorn in their
>side. We are just a rather peculiar set of customers (most of us also
>have newer macs around).

Agreed. Chrysler must feel the same way about MoPar Madness -- all those
car junkies keeping those 1960s and early-70s cars running like new.
Sure, Chrysler would benefit if they all bought a new Chrysler 300, but
their mania certainly does nothing to diminish Chrysler's reputation.

I'm sure there are plenty of other analogies -- Harley owners, tube
electronics mavens, etc.

Like the MoPar crew, it doesn't really matter to our passion for older
Macs whether Apple loves us, hates us, or ignores us. At the very least,
we advocate for the Mac -- new and used -- and do what we can to keep the
installed base from shrinking.


Dan Knight, president, Cobweb Publishing, Inc.
  publisher, Low End Mac<http://lowendmac.com/>
  publisher, Digital-Views.com  <http://digital-views.com/>
  publisher, Digigraphica<http://digigraphica.com/>

I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary
ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong
end of a telescope and that enables you to laugh at life's realities.
  -- Dr. Seuss


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Re: Musings

[Jeff Garrison]

-Original Message-
From: Dan Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Vintage Macs <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Date: Friday, August 24, 2001 8:58 AM
Subject: Re: Musings


 At the very least, 
>we advocate for the Mac -- new and used -- and do what we can to keep the 
>installed base from shrinking.
>
>
>Dan Knight, president, Cobweb Publishing, Inc.


We'd better advocate a little louder.

Didn't Apple marketshare just get to 3%?

Jeff


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Re: Musings

[Steve Conrad]

> At the very least,
>>we advocate for the Mac -- new and used -- and do what we can to keep the
>>installed base from shrinking.
>>
>>
>>Dan Knight, president, Cobweb Publishing, Inc.
>
>
>We'd better advocate a little louder.
>
>Didn't Apple marketshare just get to 3%?
>
>Jeff

Well, I have some old AT&T WorldNet diskettes for 68k Macs and when I
called today to ask if I could get the last ones they released for 68K Macs
I was told that at first AT&T didn't support Macs and then they did (unlike
BlueLight which always says "we are working on Mac support") and now the
LEAST they support is 601-era PowerMacs and nothing less. They don't even
have diskettes anymore, only 601-era PowerMacs.
I am gonna ask the Customer Relations Manager if any diskettes might still
exist in a warehouse (or older CDs for 68k Macs) that lowendmac.com can
stick on a website for those of us who love and still use 68k Macs.

Steve Conrad
1818 Franklin
Lexington, MO 64067
660-259-7176 http://sasha91.0pi.com


   It is no secret (nor should it come as any surprise) that humankind's
most noble impulses often surface during the most trying of times, that
human spirit rises to the challenge when faced with adversity, that human
strength is born from human failings...Is it any wonder, then, that the
SDF-1 crew became a tighter family after the fortress had been exiled than
it had before?

 From the log of Captain (later Admiral) Henry Gloval



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Re: Musings

[Marten van de Kraats]

>
>
>
>  At the very least,
>>we advocate for the Mac -- new and used -- and do what we can to keep the
>>installed base from shrinking.
>>
>>
>>Dan Knight, president, Cobweb Publishing, Inc.
>
>
>We'd better advocate a little louder.
>
>Didn't Apple marketshare just get to 3%?
>
>Jeff
>
It goes up and down, up and down, up and down and up.

Marten
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Re: Musings

[the pickle]

At 00:35 -0600 on 25/08/01, Steve Conrad wrote:

>I am gonna ask the Customer Relations Manager if any diskettes might still
>exist in a warehouse (or older CDs for 68k Macs) that lowendmac.com can
>stick on a website for those of us who love and still use 68k Macs.

Putting diskettes on a WWW site is not going to make any ISP support the
68K any more than they already do.  The necessary software is already
easily obtainable from a multitude of sources.  It's not the lack of
software that's a problem; it's the fact that it's not an economically
viable proposition for most large ISPs to support anything older than a
PowerPC Mac because of the incredibly small portion of the market that the
68Ks represent.

p
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Posting Suggestions? (was Musings)

[Andrew Michael MacTao]

pickle wrote:
>Putting diskettes on a WWW site is not going to make any ISP support the
>68K any more than they already do.  The necessary software is already
>easily obtainable from a multitude of sources.  It's not the lack of
>software that's a problem; it's the fact that it's not an economically
>viable proposition for most large ISPs to support anything older than a
>PowerPC Mac because of the incredibly small portion of the market that the
>68Ks represent.

On this.
I mentioned a while back, that I had obtained quite an extensive 
collection of older Mac software... Mostly Stuffit archives on 
CD-ROM's. Whenever someone asks, on-list about a particular piece of 
older software, I'll have DiskTracker search through about 240,000 
files to see if I have it.
If I've got it & no one has posted a link or suggestion where they 
can get it, I'll send the person a private email asking if anyone has 
sent it to them yet & if not, would they like a copy.
If it's a relatively small file, I'll send it to them an email 
attachment. If it's relatively large... I used to put it up on one of 
my nbci.com websites in a hidden folder & send the person a URL where 
they can download it.

Nbci.com don't do that no mo'. It seems all their web pages have 
become read only... Anyone have suggestions where I can find free 
webspace to upload & delete files as folks may have need for them?

Cheers,
Andrew

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Since Judgement Day has now come and gone, it is now up to
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of "tribulation" to prove their True intent, or, be lost...
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Re: Posting Suggestions? (was Musings)

[Jim Arnott]

tripod.

Jim

Andrew Michael MacTao wrote:
>  
> Nbci.com don't do that no mo'. It seems all their web pages have
> become read only... Anyone have suggestions where I can find free
> webspace to upload & delete files as folks may have need for them?
>

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Re: Posting Suggestions? (was Musings)

[Steve Moody]

At 11:38 PM -0700 8/27/01, Jim Arnott wrote:
>  > Nbci.com don't do that no mo'. It seems all their web pages have
>>  become read only... Anyone have suggestions where I can find free
>>  webspace to upload & delete files as folks may have need for them?

   Got OS 9?  Use iDisk - 20MB free.  More space comes at a dollar a Meg.
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Re: Posting Suggestions? (was Musings)

[rlf]

Vintage Macs wrote...

>From: Andrew Michael MacTao <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Posting Suggestions? (was Musings)
>
>-- 
><><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <>< <><
>Since Judgement Day has now come and gone, it is now up to
>those who have not passed this test, over the next few years
>of "tribulation" to prove their True intent, or, be lost...
>Forever
><><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <><  <>< <><

Nice fish!

Bob F

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Old cars VS old Macs. Re: Musings

[Gregg Eshelman]

The difference with Ford, GM and MoPar is they are
actively persuing owners of their "classics" with
plenty of parts and services for the more popular
models. You can go into any Ford dealer and order
many parts for an old Mustang, even a complete
engine. You can't call up Apple and order all the
innards of an LCIII. (Unless you are the original
owner of the Performa variant in California.)

--- Dan Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Agreed. Chrysler must feel the same way about MoPar
> Madness -- all those 
> car junkies keeping those 1960s and early-70s cars
> running like new. 
> Sure, Chrysler would benefit if they all bought a
> new Chrysler 300, but 
> their mania certainly does nothing to diminish
> Chrysler's reputation.
> 
> I'm sure there are plenty of other analogies --
> Harley owners, tube 
> electronics mavens, etc.
> 
> Like the MoPar crew, it doesn't really matter to our
> passion for older 
> Macs whether Apple loves us, hates us, or ignores
> us. At the very least, 
> we advocate for the Mac -- new and used -- and do
> what we can to keep the 
> installed base from shrinking.


=
"The earth swarms with inhabitants. Why then should nature,
which is fruitful to an excess here, be so very barren in
the rest of the planets?" Bernard de Fontenelle, 1686
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
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