Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[mathews . 5]

Dearest Dave,

Piss off.

Sincerely,
Terry


>This discussion is off topic.
>
>Remember we are talking about the Macintosh here, OK?
>
>Get a clue losers!


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Kirk D. Garber]

Attn: Dave Lee-- Hear, Hear!  You tell 'em, Dave!  

On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 21:09:19 -0800 (PST) Dave Lee <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
writes:
> 
> I agree.  Guys, get it off the list.  I'm tired of wading through 
> all your crap.
> 
> --- Robert Patterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > 
> > 
> > Hi,
> > 
> > Could somebody please explain what this thread is about, and how 
> it
> > relates to Vintage Macs?  Thanks!
> > 
> >  Rob
> > 
> > 
> > >At 08:23 -0800 on 02/04/03, Joseph Davis wrote:
> > >
> > >>Buy me a Holset HX35 with the 9 cm^2 exhaust housing, and get me 
> the
> > >>unobtainium data sheet for the OKI 6260 used circa 1990, and 
> we'll
> > >>talk.
> > >
> > >You mean like one of these?
> > >
> > >http://msvorinich.itgo.com/Jan0703.html
> > >
> > >eBay says rebuilt HX-35s are about $200 or thereabouts.  I'm 
> officially taking
> > >up a collection.  Heck, $10 from 20 people and we've got it, 
> which leaves Jeff
> > >to dig up data sheets ;)
> > >
> > >BTW, what are you bolting this monster onto?
> > >-- 
> > >
> > >the pickle
> > 
> > -- 
> > Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...
> > 
> >  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win 
> A |
> >  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook! 
>   |
> > 
> >   Support Low End Mac 
> 
> > 
> > Vintage Macs list info: 
> 
> > The FAQ:
> >   --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
> > Send list messages to:  
> > To unsubscribe, email:  
> 
> > For digest mode, email: 
> 
> > Subscription questions: 
> > Archive: 
> 
> > 
> > Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! 
> http://www.applelinks.com
> > 
> 
> =
> " Happiness often sneaks through
> a door you didn't know you left open."
> - John Barrymore
> 
> 
> Do you Yahoo!?
> Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
> http://tax.yahoo.com
> 
> -- 
> Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...
> 
>  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A 
> |
>  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   
> |
> 
>   Support Low End Mac 
> 
> Vintage Macs list info: 
> 
> The FAQ:
>   --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
> Send list messages to:  
> To unsubscribe, email:  
> 
> For digest mode, email: 
> 
> Subscription questions: 
> Archive: 
> 
> 
> Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! 
> http://www.applelinks.com
> 
> 
> 


Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today
Only $9.95 per month!
Visit www.juno.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Dave Lee]

This discussion is off topic.  

Remember we are talking about the Macintosh here, OK?

Get a clue losers!

--- Joseph Davis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:47:57 -0500, you wrote:
> 
> >At 08:23 -0800 on 02/04/03, Joseph Davis wrote:
> >
> >>Buy me a Holset HX35 with the 9 cm^2 exhaust housing, and get me the
> >>unobtainium data sheet for the OKI 6260 used circa 1990, and we'll
> >>talk.
> >
> >You mean like one of these?
> >
> >http://msvorinich.itgo.com/Jan0703.html
> 
> Of all the pages to happen across, you would find that one.  My car is
> built along very similar lines, and that was my first confirmation
> that a HX35 would even spool on a small engine.
> 
> >
> >eBay says rebuilt HX-35s are about $200 or thereabouts.  I'm officially taking
> >up a collection.  Heck, $10 from 20 people and we've got it, which leaves Jeff
> >to dig up data sheets ;)
> 
> The 9cm^2 exhaust housing was the difficult part.  Not attainable in
> North America from what I can tell, or at least on anything OEM.  I
> was trying to be difficult, because my success in re a few 8 bit
> processors with 16K code dumps doesn't patch my huge gaps in knowledge
> about Mac hardware/software.  
> 
> Converting a single LCIII to 450/LCIII+ spec (oh, wow, a jumper) and
> firing it up a dozen times to plunk on it does not an expert make me.
> Loudmouthed?  Yeah.  Capable of the task we're discussing?  Maybe yes,
> maybe no - as someone else pointed out it's not lack of talent but
> lack of interest.  
> 
> >
> >BTW, what are you bolting this monster onto?
> 
> 89 CRX HF (1800 lbs) with turbo 94 Integra LS engine.  The current
> turbo is good for ~220 whp @ 10 psi.  With the new tubular turbo
> manifold I've built and the increased efficiencey of the modern
> Holsets over the venerable Garrett T-series plaguing the aftermarket
> I hope to hit ~220 off of 6-7 psi.  based on results friends have had
> with some of the $$$ custom turbos out there, my guesstimation of
> power output shouldn't be too far off.
> 
> Joseph
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...
> 
>  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
>  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |
> 
>   Support Low End Mac 
> 
> Vintage Macs list info: 
> The FAQ:
>   --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
> Send list messages to:  
> To unsubscribe, email:  
> For digest mode, email: 
> Subscription questions: 
> Archive: 
> 
> Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
> 

=
" Happiness often sneaks through
a door you didn't know you left open."
- John Barrymore

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Joseph Davis]

On Thu, 3 Apr 2003 22:47:57 -0500, you wrote:

>At 08:23 -0800 on 02/04/03, Joseph Davis wrote:
>
>>Buy me a Holset HX35 with the 9 cm^2 exhaust housing, and get me the
>>unobtainium data sheet for the OKI 6260 used circa 1990, and we'll
>>talk.
>
>You mean like one of these?
>
>http://msvorinich.itgo.com/Jan0703.html

Of all the pages to happen across, you would find that one.  My car is
built along very similar lines, and that was my first confirmation
that a HX35 would even spool on a small engine.

>
>eBay says rebuilt HX-35s are about $200 or thereabouts.  I'm officially taking
>up a collection.  Heck, $10 from 20 people and we've got it, which leaves Jeff
>to dig up data sheets ;)

The 9cm^2 exhaust housing was the difficult part.  Not attainable in
North America from what I can tell, or at least on anything OEM.  I
was trying to be difficult, because my success in re a few 8 bit
processors with 16K code dumps doesn't patch my huge gaps in knowledge
about Mac hardware/software.  

Converting a single LCIII to 450/LCIII+ spec (oh, wow, a jumper) and
firing it up a dozen times to plunk on it does not an expert make me.
Loudmouthed?  Yeah.  Capable of the task we're discussing?  Maybe yes,
maybe no - as someone else pointed out it's not lack of talent but
lack of interest.  

>
>BTW, what are you bolting this monster onto?

89 CRX HF (1800 lbs) with turbo 94 Integra LS engine.  The current
turbo is good for ~220 whp @ 10 psi.  With the new tubular turbo
manifold I've built and the increased efficiencey of the modern
Holsets over the venerable Garrett T-series plaguing the aftermarket
I hope to hit ~220 off of 6-7 psi.  based on results friends have had
with some of the $$$ custom turbos out there, my guesstimation of
power output shouldn't be too far off.

Joseph



--
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Dave Lee]

I agree.  Guys, get it off the list.  I'm tired of wading through all your crap.

--- Robert Patterson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Could somebody please explain what this thread is about, and how it
> relates to Vintage Macs?  Thanks!
> 
>  Rob
> 
> 
> >At 08:23 -0800 on 02/04/03, Joseph Davis wrote:
> >
> >>Buy me a Holset HX35 with the 9 cm^2 exhaust housing, and get me the
> >>unobtainium data sheet for the OKI 6260 used circa 1990, and we'll
> >>talk.
> >
> >You mean like one of these?
> >
> >http://msvorinich.itgo.com/Jan0703.html
> >
> >eBay says rebuilt HX-35s are about $200 or thereabouts.  I'm officially taking
> >up a collection.  Heck, $10 from 20 people and we've got it, which leaves Jeff
> >to dig up data sheets ;)
> >
> >BTW, what are you bolting this monster onto?
> >-- 
> >
> >the pickle
> 
> -- 
> Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...
> 
>  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
>  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |
> 
>   Support Low End Mac 
> 
> Vintage Macs list info: 
> The FAQ:
>   --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
> Send list messages to:  
> To unsubscribe, email:  
> For digest mode, email: 
> Subscription questions: 
> Archive: 
> 
> Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
> 

=
" Happiness often sneaks through
a door you didn't know you left open."
- John Barrymore

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Dave Lee]

Hey Pickle, I can't remember what model of the compact mac the HX-35 is.  Clue me in
will you?  Or get a clue yourself, maybe the HX-35 is not a compact mac?!

H.

--- the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 08:23 -0800 on 02/04/03, Joseph Davis wrote:
> 
> >Buy me a Holset HX35 with the 9 cm^2 exhaust housing, and get me the
> >unobtainium data sheet for the OKI 6260 used circa 1990, and we'll
> >talk.
> 
> You mean like one of these?
> 
> http://msvorinich.itgo.com/Jan0703.html
> 
> eBay says rebuilt HX-35s are about $200 or thereabouts.  I'm officially taking
> up a collection.  Heck, $10 from 20 people and we've got it, which leaves Jeff
> to dig up data sheets ;)
> 
> BTW, what are you bolting this monster onto?
> -- 
> 
> the pickle
> 
> FAQ 
> _
> 
> -- 
> Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...
> 
>  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
>  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |
> 
>   Support Low End Mac 
> 
> Vintage Macs list info: 
> The FAQ:
>   --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
> Send list messages to:  
> To unsubscribe, email:  
> For digest mode, email: 
> Subscription questions: 
> Archive: 
> 
> Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
> 

=
" Happiness often sneaks through
a door you didn't know you left open."
- John Barrymore

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Robert Patterson]

Hi,

Could somebody please explain what this thread is about, and how it
relates to Vintage Macs?  Thanks!

 Rob


>At 08:23 -0800 on 02/04/03, Joseph Davis wrote:
>
>>Buy me a Holset HX35 with the 9 cm^2 exhaust housing, and get me the
>>unobtainium data sheet for the OKI 6260 used circa 1990, and we'll
>>talk.
>
>You mean like one of these?
>
>http://msvorinich.itgo.com/Jan0703.html
>
>eBay says rebuilt HX-35s are about $200 or thereabouts.  I'm officially taking
>up a collection.  Heck, $10 from 20 people and we've got it, which leaves Jeff
>to dig up data sheets ;)
>
>BTW, what are you bolting this monster onto?
>-- 
>
>the pickle

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 08:23 -0800 on 02/04/03, Joseph Davis wrote:

>Buy me a Holset HX35 with the 9 cm^2 exhaust housing, and get me the
>unobtainium data sheet for the OKI 6260 used circa 1990, and we'll
>talk.

You mean like one of these?

http://msvorinich.itgo.com/Jan0703.html

eBay says rebuilt HX-35s are about $200 or thereabouts.  I'm officially taking
up a collection.  Heck, $10 from 20 people and we've got it, which leaves Jeff
to dig up data sheets ;)

BTW, what are you bolting this monster onto?
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 21:23 -0500 on 02/04/03, Robert Gray wrote:

>>Give a competent programmer with proper equipment a ROM dump and financial
>>incentive and if this problem is solvable, we'll have it fixed
>
>Thought we were talking trivial software solution here not a small project.

We are.  You don't expect someone to be able to patch the ROM without knowing
what to patch, do you?
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Robert Gray]

>  >That doesn't explain why a half dozen Mac hackers never came up with
>>a trivial software solution.  If it were doable, it would have been
>
>They don't work for Apple?

Computer hobbyist...geeks...you know the kids that were hacking all 
kinds of stuff back then.  They would have solved this if it could 
have been done in software.  It would have been to their advantage 
and rep.

>You'd think someone could write a browser for System 6, too

Wouldn't call that trivial.   :-)

>Give a competent programmer with proper equipment a ROM dump and financial
>incentive and if this problem is solvable, we'll have it fixed

Thought we were talking trivial software solution here not a small project.



-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Joseph Davis]

On Wed, 2 Apr 2003 07:53:26 -0500, you wrote:

>At 01:51 -0800 on 02/04/03, Joseph Davis wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:28:53 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
>>
>>>
>>>--- the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>>
 Give a competent programmer with proper equipment a
 ROM dump and financial
 incentive and if this problem is solvable, we'll
 have it fixed inside of a
 week.  Finding the competent programmer is going to
 be the difficult (read: impossible) part.
>>>
>>>Naw, it's finding a competent programmer who gives a
>>>$hit about the problem. :P (
>>
>>I know I could care less about any problem not related to the OKI
>>8xC154D derivative of the 8051 and the OKI 66K series of processors.
>>I probably fit the bill on the other qualifications.
>
>Just 'cause I'm curious...
>
>Name your price ;)

Buy me a Holset HX35 with the 9 cm^2 exhaust housing, and get me the
unobtainium data sheet for the OKI 6260 used circa 1990, and we'll
talk.

Joseph

--
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 01:51 -0800 on 02/04/03, Joseph Davis wrote:

>On Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:28:53 -0800 (PST), you wrote:
>
>>
>>--- the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>> Give a competent programmer with proper equipment a
>>> ROM dump and financial
>>> incentive and if this problem is solvable, we'll
>>> have it fixed inside of a
>>> week.  Finding the competent programmer is going to
>>> be the difficult (read: impossible) part.
>>
>>Naw, it's finding a competent programmer who gives a
>>$hit about the problem. :P (
>
>I know I could care less about any problem not related to the OKI
>8xC154D derivative of the 8051 and the OKI 66K series of processors.
>I probably fit the bill on the other qualifications.

Just 'cause I'm curious...

Name your price ;)
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Adam]

> >> Give a competent programmer with proper equipment a
> >> ROM dump and financial
> >> incentive and if this problem is solvable, we'll
> >> have it fixed inside of a
> >> week...

Should someone manage to pull this off, just how many people would use the
patch anyway? After all, a Q605/LC475 has the same form factor, no practical
RAM limit, would suck the doors off a LC(II(I)) and are practically given
away.

Of course, if you did produce such a patch, you would instantly write your
name into history as one of the elitest of the vintage mac elite. :)

Cheers,
Adam.


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Adam]

> Naw, it's finding a competent programmer who gives a
> $hit about the problem. :P (Which is why some other
> shortcomings of the "classic" Mac System/OS have never
> been fixed and likely never will be.

I know this will pi$$ off a lot of people, but I think that the Classic OS
on anything more advanced than a 68040 is a waste.
If I were Apple, I would hav ported A/UX over to PPC, and ditched the
Classic OS - instead of waiting how many years to do essentially that.

Cheers,
Adam.


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Joseph Davis]

On Tue, 1 Apr 2003 19:28:53 -0800 (PST), you wrote:

>
>--- the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Give a competent programmer with proper equipment a
>> ROM dump and financial
>> incentive and if this problem is solvable, we'll
>> have it fixed inside of a
>> week.  Finding the competent programmer is going to
>> be the difficult (read: impossible) part.
>
>Naw, it's finding a competent programmer who gives a
>$hit about the problem. :P (

I know I could care less about any problem not related to the OKI
8xC154D derivative of the 8051 and the OKI 66K series of processors.
I probably fit the bill on the other qualifications.

Joseph



--
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 19:28 -0800 on 01/04/03, Gregg Eshelman wrote:

>--- the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Give a competent programmer with proper equipment a
>> ROM dump and financial
>> incentive and if this problem is solvable, we'll
>> have it fixed inside of a
>> week.  Finding the competent programmer is going to
>> be the difficult (read: impossible) part.
>
>Naw, it's finding a competent programmer who gives a
>$hit about the problem. :P (Which is why some other

Thus the "financial incentive" comment.

Give me enough money and I'll teach *myself* how to do it.
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Give a competent programmer with proper equipment a
> ROM dump and financial
> incentive and if this problem is solvable, we'll
> have it fixed inside of a
> week.  Finding the competent programmer is going to
> be the difficult (read: impossible) part.

Naw, it's finding a competent programmer who gives a
$hit about the problem. :P (Which is why some other
shortcomings of the "classic" Mac System/OS have never
been fixed and likely never will be. See my other
post in this thread where I listed three big ones.)


=
"Why do Zik-Zak Burgers come in plastic packs? Some of the plastic rubs off on them 
and increases their nutritional value!" Max Headroom

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://tax.yahoo.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 21:28 -0500 on 01/04/03, Robert Gray wrote:

>That doesn't explain why a half dozen Mac hackers never came up with
>a trivial software solution.  If it were doable, it would have been

They don't work for Apple?

You'd think someone could write a browser for System 6, too, but nobody's done
that either ;)

Give a competent programmer with proper equipment a ROM dump and financial
incentive and if this problem is solvable, we'll have it fixed inside of a
week.  Finding the competent programmer is going to be the difficult (read:
impossible) part.
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Robert Gray]

At 00:09:08 -0500 on 4/1/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>  At 00:06 -0500 on 01/04/03, Robert Gray wrote:
>>
>>  At 07:43:41 -0500 on 3/31/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>>
>>>  At 07:42 -0500 on 31/03/03, Robert Gray wrote:

>   I was thinking about something along the lines of...MODE32...
>   a little file that you stick in your extensions folder.

   If the solution were that trivial,
   the question never would have come up.  :-)
>>>
>>>   What's the bet Connectix might have had something, but Apple
>>>   didn't want them to release it and bought it off them?
>>
>>  Conspiracy theory.  I like it.  :-)  Another 200 mpg carburetor.

>  Any company willing to write the ROMs to ignore RAM over 10 MB
>  in the first place is clearly willing to do *way* too much to keep
>  products stuck in the niche they're intended for.

That doesn't explain why a half dozen Mac hackers never came up with 
a trivial software solution.  If it were doable, it would have been 
done.  Hey, who would ever need more than 128k of RAM anyway?  ;-)

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:



> >>  What's the bet Connectix might have had
> something, but Apple
> >>  didn't want them to release it and bought it off
> them?
> >
> >Conspiracy theory.  I like it.  :-)  Another 200
> mpg carburetor.
> 
> Any company willing to write the ROMs to ignore RAM
> over 10 MB in the first
> place is clearly willing to do *way* too much to
> keep products stuck in the
> niche they're intended for.  So unlike the 200 mpg
> carb, this one has some good
> logic behind it ;)

Yah. Just hunt up the sorry, sad tale of how Apple
set themselves back years in Brazil because they
couldn't see their way to working with the Mac
cloner Unitron instead of crushing them under a ton
of lawyers.

=
"Why do Zik-Zak Burgers come in plastic packs? Some of the plastic rubs off on them 
and increases their nutritional value!" Max Headroom

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more
http://platinum.yahoo.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 00:06 -0500 on 01/04/03, Robert Gray wrote:

>At 07:43:41 -0500 on 3/31/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
>>At 07:42 -0500 on 31/03/03, Robert Gray wrote:
>>
  I was thinking about something along the lines of...MODE32...
  a little file that you stick in your extensions folder.
>>>
>>>  If the solution were that trivial,
>>>  the question never would have come up.  :-)
>>
>>  What's the bet Connectix might have had something, but Apple
>>  didn't want them to release it and bought it off them?
>
>Conspiracy theory.  I like it.  :-)  Another 200 mpg carburetor.

Any company willing to write the ROMs to ignore RAM over 10 MB in the first
place is clearly willing to do *way* too much to keep products stuck in the
niche they're intended for.  So unlike the 200 mpg carb, this one has some good
logic behind it ;)
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Robert Gray]

At 07:43:41 -0500 on 3/31/03, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

>At 07:42 -0500 on 31/03/03, Robert Gray wrote:
>
>>>  I was thinking about something along the lines of...MODE32...
>>>  a little file that you stick in your extensions folder.
>>
>>  If the solution were that trivial,
>>  the question never would have come up.  :-)
>
>  What's the bet Connectix might have had something, but Apple
>  didn't want them to release it and bought it off them?

Conspiracy theory.  I like it.  :-)  Another 200 mpg carburetor.

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 07:42 -0500 on 31/03/03, Robert Gray wrote:

>>I was thinking about something along the lines of...MODE32...
>>a little file that you stick in your extensions folder.
>
>If the solution were that trivial,
>the question never would have come up.  :-)

What's the bet Connectix might have had something, but Apple didn't want them
to release it and bought it off them?
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 22:53 -0600 on 30/03/03, Jeff Walther wrote:

>>Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 11:42:13 -0500
>>From: the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>At 10:27 -0500 on 30/03/03, Dan Knight wrote:
>>
>>>Sonnet has come out with a patch. It's part of a PDS card that includes a
>>>33 MHz '040 CPU, ethernet, and 32 MB additional memory.
>>
>>Ja, but that means it's doable in software.
>
>Not necessarily.   Sonnet's card may be doing the trick the old 68000
>Compact upgrades did where extra memory on their hardware is a RAM
>disk which becomes virtual memory.

I *know* it doesn't do that. ;)
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Robert Gray]

>I was thinking about something along the lines of...MODE32...
>a little file that you stick in your extensions folder.

If the solution were that trivial,
the question never would have come up.  :-)

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> At 10:27 -0500 on 30/03/03, Dan Knight wrote:
> 
> >Sonnet has come out with a patch. It's part of a
> PDS card that includes a
> >33 MHz '040 CPU, ethernet, and 32 MB additional
> memory.
> 
> Ja, but that means it's doable in software.

Depends on how the Sonnet card adds it's 32megs RAM.
Sounds like that Sonnet card is practically a complete
single board computer. I wonder if it enables full
access to the memory on the LC board or if it can
still only access 8 megs there?

=
"Why do Zik-Zak Burgers come in plastic packs? Some of the plastic rubs off on them 
and increases their nutritional value!" Max Headroom

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Jeff Walther]

>Date: Sun, 30 Mar 2003 11:42:13 -0500
>From: the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>At 10:27 -0500 on 30/03/03, Dan Knight wrote:
>
>>Sonnet has come out with a patch. It's part of a PDS card that includes a
>>33 MHz '040 CPU, ethernet, and 32 MB additional memory.
>
>Ja, but that means it's doable in software.

Not necessarily.   Sonnet's card may be doing the trick the old 68000 
Compact upgrades did where extra memory on their hardware is a RAM 
disk which becomes virtual memory.

I don't know how they did.  I'm just playing devil's advocate here in 
order to note that it doesn't *necessarily* mean that they did it in 
software.

Jeff Walther


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 08:21 +1000 on 31/03/03, Adam wrote:

>> >Sonnet has come out with a patch. It's part of a PDS card that includes a
>> >33 MHz '040 CPU, ethernet, and 32 MB additional memory.
>>
>> Ja, but that means it's doable in software.
>> --
>
>Does it? I'm not completely convinced that being able to do this with an
>upgrade card (which is, essentially a whole new computer on a PDS card)

It's not a whole new computer on a PDS card.  It still uses the LC ROMs for
*most* - though not all - of its function.
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Adam]

> >Sonnet has come out with a patch. It's part of a PDS card that includes a
> >33 MHz '040 CPU, ethernet, and 32 MB additional memory.
>
> Ja, but that means it's doable in software.
> --

Does it? I'm not completely convinced that being able to do this with an
upgrade card (which is, essentially a whole new computer on a PDS card)
translates into being able to override Apple's wisdom solely in software
with the stock LC board.

-Adam


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Adam]

> Sonnet has come out with a patch. It's part of a PDS card that includes a
> 33 MHz '040 CPU, ethernet, and 32 MB additional memory.
>
...but I think the upgrade is $149 with the
> 68LC040 and $199 with the full 68040 processor. (Could be $50 less --
> been a while since I checked.)
>
> Now think about it. That's a whole lot more than you'd pay for a used
> Quadra 605, a PDS ethernet card, and a 32 MB SIMM
>
> Sell a truckload?

I didn't mean a hardware solution. I was thinking about something along the
lines of their MODE32 - a little file that you stick in your extensions
folder then forget all about.
It'd probably be a dozen K, and if you slapped a $20 price sticker on it
back then. I'm sure you could shovel a lode of them out the door

Cheers,
Adam.


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 10:27 -0500 on 30/03/03, Dan Knight wrote:

>Sonnet has come out with a patch. It's part of a PDS card that includes a
>33 MHz '040 CPU, ethernet, and 32 MB additional memory.

Ja, but that means it's doable in software.
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Dan Knight]

On 3/28/03 2:17 PM, Adam posted:

>If this limitation is the the ROM thanks to our friends at Apple, and if it
>is patchable by someone with the necessary skills, why wouldn't Connectix or
>someone come out with such a patch.
>I'm sure they would have sold by the truckload.

Sonnet has come out with a patch. It's part of a PDS card that includes a 
33 MHz '040 CPU, ethernet, and 32 MB additional memory.

I can't access Sonnet's regular website  this 
morning to verify pricing, but I think the upgrade is $149 with the 
68LC040 and $199 with the full 68040 processor. (Could be $50 less -- 
been a while since I checked.)

Now think about it. That's a whole lot more than you'd pay for a used 
Quadra 605, a PDS ethernet card, and a 32 MB SIMM. For the price, you 
could invest in a very nice Power Mac -- maybe a 7100 or 5400.

Sell a truckload? Despite perhaps millions of LC, LC II, and Color 
Classic machines out there, I doubt Sonnet has come close. There are too 
many economical ways to replace the motherboard or the entire computer 
for less money.


-- 
Dan Knight, president, Cobweb Publishing, Inc.
  
  
   

I like nonsense, it wakes up the brain cells. Fantasy is a necessary
ingredient in living, it's a way of looking at life through the wrong
end of a telescope and that enables you to laugh at life's realities.
  -- Dr. Seuss


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 18:36 +1000 on 30/03/03, dana sibera wrote:

>From the (basic) knowledge I have of memory, the number of address lines
>(column and row) that are either
>physically connected to the simm socket, or even physically available on the
>memory controller, comes into play. If the
>motherboard doesn't have the lines available to address more than 4mb per
>socket (and the onboard ram can be
>effectively seen as a hardwired simm, logically) then seeing any more will
>need hardware fiddling.

Right, but that's a banking issue more than anything else.  There are X number
of banks the controller can address, but the capacity of each bank is *much*
higher than 4 MB.
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[dana sibera]

On Sat, Mar 29, 2003 at 05:17:50AM +1000, Adam wrote:

> > There's a huge reason *not* to make a ROM that only supports 10 MB when
> it's
> > clear that larger SIMMs are going to come into play within a few months...
> 
> If this limitation is the the ROM thanks to our friends at Apple, and if it
> is patchable by someone with the necessary skills, why wouldn't Connectix or
> someone come out with such a patch.
> I'm sure they would have sold by the truckload.
> 
> Unless of course they feared the wrath of Steve (or whoever...)

>From the (basic) knowledge I have of memory, the number of address lines (column and 
>row) that are either
physically connected to the simm socket, or even physically available on the memory 
controller, comes into play. If the
motherboard doesn't have the lines available to address more than 4mb per socket (and 
the onboard ram can be
effectively seen as a hardwired simm, logically) then seeing any more will need 
hardware fiddling.

One japanese site has a dodgy (but neat all the same!) hack which uses a spare address 
line from the memcjr memory
controller in a Q605/LC475 to give it an extra simm socket, allowing for hacks with 
260+mb of ram addressable in those.
Without those hacks the machine can't physically see more than it's normal maximum of 
136mb

dana
--
http://www.danamania.com/


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Adam]

>>
For instance, if
> >a computer has 2 MB on the motherboard and accepts two 4 MB SIMMs (but
> >nothing larger), there's no reason in the world to create ROMs that can
> >support more than 10 MB.
>
>
> There's a huge reason *not* to make a ROM that only supports 10 MB when
it's
> clear that larger SIMMs are going to come into play within a few months...

If this limitation is the the ROM thanks to our friends at Apple, and if it
is patchable by someone with the necessary skills, why wouldn't Connectix or
someone come out with such a patch.
I'm sure they would have sold by the truckload.

Unless of course they feared the wrath of Steve (or whoever...)

Cheers,
Adam.



-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 21:24 -0500 on 29/03/03, Dan Knight wrote:

>On 3/26/03 3:30 PM, Jeff Walther posted:
>
>>>From: Fletch Brendan Good <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>
>>>If you need a third choice, I would actually suggest an LC (not an LC
>>>II or III), even though LowEndMac declared it a Road Apple. Though it
>>>is essentially a repackaging of the Mac II (it has a 68020),
>>
>>If the LC were actually a repackaged Mac II, say with the NuBus slots
>>removed and the SIMM slots reduced in number it would not be so bad.
>>However, that is not the case.  The LC has a 16 bit path between the
>>CPU and memory, where the Mac II has a 32 bit path.This causes a
>>very significant reduction in performance in the LC vs. the II.
>>Additionally, the Mac II had a maximum RAM of 128 MB.   The LC goes
>>up to 10 MB.What's up with that?   It's not even a power of 2.
>
>Maximum memory on a computer need not be a power of two. For instance, if
>a computer has 2 MB on the motherboard and accepts two 4 MB SIMMs (but
>nothing larger), there's no reason in the world to create ROMs that can
>support more than 10 MB.


There's a huge reason *not* to make a ROM that only supports 10 MB when it's
clear that larger SIMMs are going to come into play within a few months...

>On the other hand, this was the era of System 6.0.7, and the LC was the
>only Mac at the time capable of using more than 8 MB of memory under
>System 6 without a third-party hack. For those using System 6 and wanting
>maximum use of MultiFinder, that extra 2 MB could be helpful.

No, not really.  System 6 is the limiter, not the LC.  An LC under System 6
will only see 8 MB RAM for apps, not 10 MB.
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 20:30 -0600 on 29/03/03, Steve Conrad wrote:

>>> I mean, as many people as I hear make the suggestion to "turn that
>>> antique Mac into an FTP server", you'd think there would be plenty of
>>> solutions that don't require a non-standard OS- or at least ONE...
>>
>>There's always NCSA Telnet. It's not a very robust or buff FTP server,
>>but it works and it doesn't cost anything.
>
>There were improvements over NCSA Telnet made and released, those being
>ANSI Telnet and, the one I use, Better Telnet.

Do either of those support anything more than a single anonymous user on FTP?
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Dan Knight]

On 3/26/03 3:30 PM, Jeff Walther posted:

>>From: Fletch Brendan Good <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>>If you need a third choice, I would actually suggest an LC (not an LC
>>II or III), even though LowEndMac declared it a Road Apple. Though it
>>is essentially a repackaging of the Mac II (it has a 68020),
>
>If the LC were actually a repackaged Mac II, say with the NuBus slots 
>removed and the SIMM slots reduced in number it would not be so bad. 
>However, that is not the case.  The LC has a 16 bit path between the 
>CPU and memory, where the Mac II has a 32 bit path.This causes a 
>very significant reduction in performance in the LC vs. the II. 
>Additionally, the Mac II had a maximum RAM of 128 MB.   The LC goes 
>up to 10 MB.What's up with that?   It's not even a power of 2. 

Maximum memory on a computer need not be a power of two. For instance, if 
a computer has 2 MB on the motherboard and accepts two 4 MB SIMMs (but 
nothing larger), there's no reason in the world to create ROMs that can 
support more than 10 MB.

Yes, it was a stupid move that came back to bite Apple when they started 
putting 4 MB on the motherboard of later models but retained the 10 MB 
ceiling even though 12 MB could be installed, but a key marketing concept 
was that the LC would not steal sales from the IIci. By leaving out NuBus 
slots and limiting RAM expansion, Apple did that.

On the other hand, this was the era of System 6.0.7, and the LC was the 
only Mac at the time capable of using more than 8 MB of memory under 
System 6 without a third-party hack. For those using System 6 and wanting 
maximum use of MultiFinder, that extra 2 MB could be helpful.

>Wooo.   I wouldn't go on about this so much, but this is a pet peeve 
>of mine about Apple.   They release models that are handicapped 
>beyond the requirements of any cost savings.By that, I mean that 
>for the same money, and using pretty much the same parts, there have 
>been several machines that could have been much better were it not 
>for the marketing weenies.

They still do it. Look at the "Yikes!" Power Mac G4 as a most recent 
example. It came out at the same time as the "Sawtooth" models, but it 
didn't support AGP video or the faster memory bus that the G4 processor 
could support. But it let Apple get more use out of the motherboard 
designed for the blue & white G3

Always a shame when marketing trumps engineering.


-- 
Dan Knight, president, Cobweb Publishing, Inc.
  
  
   

"As for Unix being 'inflexible,' 'expensive,' and 'complex,' we feel 
those are terms much better suited to the closed and proprietary world of 
Windows." Sun


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Steve Conrad]

>> I mean, as many people as I hear make the suggestion to "turn that
>> antique Mac into an FTP server", you'd think there would be plenty of
>> solutions that don't require a non-standard OS- or at least ONE...
>
>There's always NCSA Telnet. It's not a very robust or buff FTP server,
>but it works and it doesn't cost anything.

There were improvements over NCSA Telnet made and released, those being
ANSI Telnet and, the one I use, Better Telnet.

Steve

Steve Conrad
810 Main
Henrietta, MO 64036
816-494-5692 http://sasha91.0pi.com
www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/stonekeep/600

   It is no secret (nor should it come as any surprise) that humankind's
most noble impulses often surface during the most trying of times, that
human spirit rises to the challenge when faced with adversity, that human
strength is born from human failings...Is it any wonder, then, that the
SDF-1 crew became a tighter family after the fortress had been exiled than
it had before?

 From the log of Captain (later Admiral) Henry Gloval



-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- Cameron Kaiser <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
> > I mean, as many people as I hear make the
> suggestion to "turn that 
> > antique Mac into an FTP server", you'd think there
> would be plenty of 
> > solutions that don't require a non-standard OS- or
> at least ONE...
> 
> There's always NCSA Telnet. It's not a very robust
> or buff FTP server,
> but it works and it doesn't cost anything.

If you can dig up a 68k version of the Hotline
server, that'll work, but anyone logging in will
need the Hotline client.

=
"Why do Zik-Zak Burgers come in plastic packs? Some of the plastic rubs off on them 
and increases their nutritional value!" Max Headroom

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

FTP Server. Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Gregg Eshelman]

Might find something on http://mac.tucows.com

=
"Why do Zik-Zak Burgers come in plastic packs? Some of the plastic rubs off on them 
and increases their nutritional value!" Max Headroom

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Cameron Kaiser]

> > > I mean, as many people as I hear make the suggestion to "turn that
> > > antique Mac into an FTP server", you'd think there would be plenty of
> > > solutions that don't require a non-standard OS- or at least ONE...

> > There's always NCSA Telnet. It's not a very robust or buff FTP server,
> > but it works and it doesn't cost anything.

> Does that actually support anything more than a single anonymous user?

Nope. But he does seem desperate. :-)

-- 
- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
 Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- The world only beats a path to your door when you're in the bathroom. --

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 16:59 -0800 on 28/03/03, Cameron Kaiser wrote:

>> I mean, as many people as I hear make the suggestion to "turn that
>> antique Mac into an FTP server", you'd think there would be plenty of
>> solutions that don't require a non-standard OS- or at least ONE...
>
>There's always NCSA Telnet. It's not a very robust or buff FTP server,
>but it works and it doesn't cost anything.

Does that actually support anything more than a single anonymous user?
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Cameron Kaiser]

> I mean, as many people as I hear make the suggestion to "turn that 
> antique Mac into an FTP server", you'd think there would be plenty of 
> solutions that don't require a non-standard OS- or at least ONE...

There's always NCSA Telnet. It's not a very robust or buff FTP server,
but it works and it doesn't cost anything.

-- 
- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
 Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- The more corrupt the state, the more numerous the laws. -- Tacitus -

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 18:15 -0500 on 28/03/03, Fletch Brendan Good wrote:

>>If you switch to the free OS NetBSD you'll have a ftpserver for
>>nothing. Installing it is fairly complicated but an interesting
>>experience. It works fine on a MacIIci.
>
>I appreciate the suggestion, but I'm already installing MkLinux onto
>a 7200... I was really hoping for something simpler on the IIci.
>
>I mean, as many people as I hear make the suggestion to "turn that
>antique Mac into an FTP server", you'd think there would be plenty of
>solutions that don't require a non-standard OS- or at least ONE...

See if you can find an old version of NetPresenz.
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Fletch Brendan Good]

>If you switch to the free OS NetBSD you'll have a ftpserver for 
>nothing. Installing it is fairly complicated but an interesting 
>experience. It works fine on a MacIIci.

I appreciate the suggestion, but I'm already installing MkLinux onto 
a 7200... I was really hoping for something simpler on the IIci.

I mean, as many people as I hear make the suggestion to "turn that 
antique Mac into an FTP server", you'd think there would be plenty of 
solutions that don't require a non-standard OS- or at least ONE...

...or am I all wrong about this?

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Norbert van Bemmel]

> >Speaking of all this- who can point me to some free software I can
>>use to run such an FTP server using a IIci running System 7?
>
>Heck, forget free-- can someone point me to ANY software that'll let
>me run an FTP server on a IIci? I spent a good while at Version
>Tracker last night, and couldn't find a single program that would
>serve FTP on a 68K Mac.

If you switch to the free OS NetBSD you'll have a ftpserver for nothing. Installing it 
is fairly complicated but an interesting experience. It works fine on a MacIIci.

Http://www.netbsd.org has all the software and lots of documentation as well.

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Fletch Brendan Good]

>Speaking of all this- who can point me to some free software I can 
>use to run such an FTP server using a IIci running System 7?

Heck, forget free-- can someone point me to ANY software that'll let 
me run an FTP server on a IIci? I spent a good while at Version 
Tracker last night, and couldn't find a single program that would 
serve FTP on a 68K Mac.

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 10:17 -0800 on 27/03/03, Dave Lee wrote:

>Don't I need some kind of static-IP address for that?  I don't think Concast
>Cable
>Internet offers that.

You definitely don't need static IPs for it, but you might want a Dynamic DNS
client.
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Fletch Brendan Good]

>Don't I need some kind of static-IP address for that? I don't think 
>Concast Cable Internet offers that.

You can use a service like dyndns.org or no-ip.com to redirect people 
to your FTP or web server when you have a dynamic IP address. I think 
it might involve using a browser to log into their system from your 
FTP or web server whenever you boot the machine. I also think there's 
a way to use IPNetRouter (if anyone's using that) as a client to 
automagically keep dyndns.org apprised of the IP address for your 
server.

Speaking of all this- who can point me to some free software I can 
use to run such an FTP server using a IIci running System 7?

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Dave Lee]

Don't I need some kind of static-IP address for that?  I don't think Concast Cable
Internet offers that.

--- Steve Conrad <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >I have an LCIII I am trying to decide what to use for...
> >
> >Dave
> >
> Make yourself a nice Email or FTP server (if an FTP server is the way you
> go you can make us mac fans yet another site to find software).
> 
> Steve
> 
> Steve Conrad
> 810 Main
> Henrietta, MO 64036
> 816-494-5692 http://sasha91.0pi.com
> www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/stonekeep/600
> 
>It is no secret (nor should it come as any surprise) that humankind's
> most noble impulses often surface during the most trying of times, that
> human spirit rises to the challenge when faced with adversity, that human
> strength is born from human failings...Is it any wonder, then, that the
> SDF-1 crew became a tighter family after the fortress had been exiled than
> it had before?
> 
>  From the log of Captain (later Admiral) Henry Gloval
> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...
> 
>  Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
>  -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |
> 
>   Support Low End Mac 
> 
> Vintage Macs list info: 
> The FAQ:
>   --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
> Send list messages to:  
> To unsubscribe, email:  
> For digest mode, email: 
> Subscription questions: 
> Archive: 
> 
> Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com
> 


=
" Happiness often sneaks through
a door you didn't know you left open."
- John Barrymore

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Steve Conrad]

>I have an LCIII I am trying to decide what to use for...
>
>Dave
>
Make yourself a nice Email or FTP server (if an FTP server is the way you
go you can make us mac fans yet another site to find software).

Steve

Steve Conrad
810 Main
Henrietta, MO 64036
816-494-5692 http://sasha91.0pi.com
www.fortunecity.com/rivendell/stonekeep/600

   It is no secret (nor should it come as any surprise) that humankind's
most noble impulses often surface during the most trying of times, that
human spirit rises to the challenge when faced with adversity, that human
strength is born from human failings...Is it any wonder, then, that the
SDF-1 crew became a tighter family after the fortress had been exiled than
it had before?

 From the log of Captain (later Admiral) Henry Gloval



-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Robert Gray]

>[Slamming Apple for the way they developed their line
>  of computers and for not providing expandability.]


I think Apple knew what they were doing.  For every geek there are 
probably 30 users who just want to do a little word processing, send 
some email, surf the web, and maybe make a bithday card for grandma. 
They buy a computer, use for several machine-generation, and aren't 
the least bit interested in adding whistles, bells, and gizmos.  I 
allow that the marketing people in any large, successful corporation 
do their homework.  After all, this is a techie's list so it's to be 
expected that any missing, advanced feature will be identified and 
lamented.  That doesn't mean that Apple missed the mark; it means 
that we have a different target.


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- Jeff Walther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> So, someone sneak on over to Apple and appropriate
> those files, okay? 
> And while you're there get the Bandit and Hammerhead
> designs too, would you?

Don't forget the "Mr. Clean" 32bit clean ROMs for the
SE/30, Mac II etc. that Apple used for development
work on the IIci and System 7!

=
"Why do Zik-Zak Burgers come in plastic packs? Some of the plastic rubs off on them 
and increases their nutritional value!" Max Headroom

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- Fletch Brendan Good <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:

> And you know, I
> just noticed that 
> the IIfx itself is a one-bullet Road Apple- at the
> same time they 
> rated it a Best Buy! Go figure.

That's because of the funky 64pin SIMMs and the fact
that the PDS is useless unless you stumble onto a
rare Toka-Mac or one of the other, even rarer, CPU
upgrades.

=
"Why do Zik-Zak Burgers come in plastic packs? Some of the plastic rubs off on them 
and increases their nutritional value!" Max Headroom

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 19:42 -0600 on 26/03/03, Jeff Walther wrote:

>At 15:30 -0500 03/26/2003, Vintage Macs wrote:
>>Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 08:18:07 -0500
>>From: the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>
>>If the ROM was simply coded to ignore the extra RAM, the patching is trivial.
>
>Hmmm.  I wonder if there's any way to squeeze the IIsi ROM in there
>and see what happens...

Wrong form factor, and lots of the hardware is different, too, so I don't think
it would work :(
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Dave Lee]

--- Jeff Walther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Hmmm.  I wonder if there's any way to squeeze the IIsi ROM in there 
> and see what happens...

IIsi ROMs can be placed inside SE/30s to make them "32 bit clean".  I don't know if
the LC
has socketed ROM.  I have an LCIII I am trying to decide what to use for...

Dave

=
" Happiness often sneaks through
a door you didn't know you left open."
- John Barrymore

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Dave Lee]

--- Jeff Walther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> My objection is 
> that Apple built machines that sucked a lot more than they had to for 
> the same cost in parts.   A simple change to the LC would be to get 
> rid of the memory limitation.   That would not increase the cost. 
> Adding a 32 bit data path might have cost a bit more, especially if 
> it required more board real estate, but it might not have as well. 
> The increment would probably have been small, unless it pushed the 
> ASIC complexity over some edge that took it to a larger die size.

Yes but the LC was strategically positioned *below* the IIsi (with no RAM limit
and 32bit data bus).  If they had removed the RAM limit and put in a 32bit data bus,

the only thing separating them would be the CPU (68020 vs. 68030).  When the LC came
out everyone was pretty excited because it was an economically viable step up to 
Color Mac computing.  My dad bought the IIsi in 1990.  I'll never forget that, he
got
the 5/80 model with the extended keyboard and the Laserwriter LS!  That was a HUGE
jump from the Mac Plus with an Imagewriter II!!

Dave

=
" Happiness often sneaks through
a door you didn't know you left open."
- John Barrymore

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Jeff Walther]

At 15:30 -0500 03/26/2003, Vintage Macs wrote:
>Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 08:18:07 -0500
>From: the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

>If the ROM was simply coded to ignore the extra RAM, the patching is trivial.

Hmmm.  I wonder if there's any way to squeeze the IIsi ROM in there 
and see what happens...

>If the RAM controller itself won't recognise more than that, you're right -
>it's basically impossible.

If we had the documentation on the original ASICwhich, I guess, 
is another way of saying basically impossible.

The FPGAs another poster mentioned give a convenient way to modify 
these old machines.   If we had the original Verilog or VHDL which 
Apple used to design those ASICs (assuming they used an HDL) it would 
be fairly trivial to modify the design appropriatley.   Then the 
trick would be to find an FPGA with a compatible pinout.  The latter 
might not be as hard as it sounds, as engineers tend to reuse pinouts 
all over the place.

But the impossible part is probably learning enough about what the 
original chip does to be able to design a replacement.

So, someone sneak on over to Apple and appropriate those files, okay? 
And while you're there get the Bandit and Hammerhead designs too, 
would you?

It's too bad the patent office stopped requiring full disclosure on 
patented devices.

Jeff Walther

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Jeff Walther]

>Date: Wed, 26 Mar 2003 12:26:56 -0500
>From: Fletch Brendan Good <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Subject: Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad
>
>>Anyway, don't dishonor the Mac II, which was a fine machine for its
>>day, by saying that the LC is a close relative. :-)
>
>OK, OK, I see that I deserved that, at least to some extent, for
>having made the mistake of closely comparing the LC and the II.

That wasn't meant to be so harsh towards you, that you had to 
"deserve that" in order for me to write it.   Any harshness in that 
was meant for Apple.  My apologies if you feel like you got splashed 
by my vitriol balloon.

>  I was
>paraphrasing Everymac.com and some other website (Apple Museum, Apple
>History?) when I said that,

>for some reason I was under the mistaken  impression

It's hard to keep all that stuff straight if you weren't reading the 
Mac magazines back in the early 90s.

>But hey, Trag, c'mon dude! It wasn't like I was trying to recommend
>the LC to someone who needs to run major apps on System 7 with a lot
>of RAM, etc! {-D

Your recommendation was a fine one.  I'm sorry if I seemed to dis 
your recommendation.   I was only aiming at the comparison of the two 
machines.

>It was never the kind of machine that would please us
>power users, but they weren't aiming for us when they made it. God
>knows how many schools had those things. Even colleges- one of the
>ones I picked up came from UNC-Greensboro's Physics and Astronomy
>Department.

My objection isn't that Apple made machines that won't please power 
users.  That is certainly okay as far as it goes.  My objection is 
that Apple built machines that sucked a lot more than they had to for 
the same cost in parts.   A simple change to the LC would be to get 
rid of the memory limitation.   That would not increase the cost. 
Adding a 32 bit data path might have cost a bit more, especially if 
it required more board real estate, but it might not have as well. 
The increment would probably have been small, unless it pushed the 
ASIC complexity over some edge that took it to a larger die size.

>I know I tend to make a habit out of defending the real low-level
>machines, usually the ones in pizza boxes (Mark Benson, little help
>here!) I use two 6100s that I'm very loyal to-

No need to be defensive.   I think the 6100 is a great machine.   But 
the 6100 is based on a philosophy which would have served the LC 
well.  The 6100 is a 7100 is an 8100.They all use exactly the 
same chip set and ROM (with some revision changes along the way and 
the 8100 may have used a slightly different ROM).   Apple just hacked 
a few things off to make the 7100 and the 6100.   If they had built 
the LC from a IIci in the same way, and maybe updated the on-board 
video and added sound-in along the way, it would have been a fine 
machine.

Of the pizza boxes, I like the 6100, Q605 (and all its relatives) and 
the LCIII.   I have a Q605 and all the parts for a 6100...except all 
my 6100 MBs have cracked CPUs.   That's my ultimate soldering 
project.  :-)  I have a IIci so there's not much point in getting an 
LCIII.

>All I was saying was, for what Oob's dad wants to do, I think a 20MHz
>LC with 10MB of RAM running System 6 should be sufficient, and save
>him the trouble of paying shipping for a larger machine, or trying to
>track one down locally.

I agree completely.  As I mentioned above, I was merely objecting to 
a technicality.

Jeff Walther

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by <http://lowendmac.com/> and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac <http://lowendmac.com/lists/support.html>

Vintage Macs list info: <http://lowendmac.com/lists/vintagemacs.shtml>
The FAQ:<http://macfaq.org/>
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To unsubscribe, email:  <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
For digest mode, email: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subscription questions: <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Archive: <http://www.mail-archive.com/vintage.macs%40mail.maclaunch.com/>

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Fletch Brendan Good]

>Anyway, don't dishonor the Mac II, which was a fine machine for its 
>day, by saying that the LC is a close relative. :-)

OK, OK, I see that I deserved that, at least to some extent, for 
having made the mistake of closely comparing the LC and the II. I was 
paraphrasing Everymac.com and some other website (Apple Museum, Apple 
History?) when I said that, but the exact quote was that they were 
"distant cousins". And now I realize that just because they were the 
only two 68020-based Macs doesn't mean they were really related. 
Also, I did understand that both the LC and LC II were hamstrung by 
their 16-bit data paths, but for some reason I was under the mistaken 
impression that it was a much more severe hindrance for the LC II, 
with its 68030, than it was for the LC with its 68020. I stand 
corrected.

But hey, Trag, c'mon dude! It wasn't like I was trying to recommend 
the LC to someone who needs to run major apps on System 7 with a lot 
of RAM, etc! {-D

>The marketing weenies were probably pressuring the engineering folks 
>to build a machine that wouldn't compete with the IIsi and the 
>abominable LC is what we got.

Yeah, that's exactly what it was. They had the IIsi and the Mac 
Classic out at the same time and they wanted to position this sucker 
right in between. I do agree with you that Apple applied overkill to 
the process of "dumbing down" the LC so it wouldn't compete with the 
IIsi, but at least they admitted the reason for its existence in its 
very name. It was never the kind of machine that would please us 
power users, but they weren't aiming for us when they made it. God 
knows how many schools had those things. Even colleges- one of the 
ones I picked up came from UNC-Greensboro's Physics and Astronomy 
Department.

>Basically, the LC could be a better machine with exactly the same 
>hardware, if the ROM was better written. It could be a pretty good 
>machine, albeit a little more expensive with a wider data bus. [...] 
>It didn't become what it should have been until the LC III.

I agree, but unfortunately the LC III doesn't run System 6. If it 
did, I'd never have mentioned the LC, and neither would I be using 
one for my own System 6 project.

I know I tend to make a habit out of defending the real low-level 
machines, usually the ones in pizza boxes (Mark Benson, little help 
here!) I use two 6100s that I'm very loyal to- they're kinda like the 
workhorse mules in a barnyard of racehorses. So I won't go on about 
the LC too much here, other than to say that when LowEndMac made it a 
Road Apple, it was with two bullets ("compromised; nice computers as 
long as you are aware of their limitations") not three ("fairly 
compromised", like the Mac TV or IIvx) or even four ("avoid at all 
costs", the Performas 52xx-62xx). And you know, I just noticed that 
the IIfx itself is a one-bullet Road Apple- at the same time they 
rated it a Best Buy! Go figure.

All I was saying was, for what Oob's dad wants to do, I think a 20MHz 
LC with 10MB of RAM running System 6 should be sufficient, and save 
him the trouble of paying shipping for a larger machine, or trying to 
track one down locally.

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Todd Russell]

Speaking of the topic of expandability, I also find it downright maddening 
how Apple continues bottlenecking the expandability options.  The first Mac 
I ever even saw in person was the Grape iMac(I'm serious, we used TRS80s and 
DOS PCs when I was in school), and I hated it because, where was I supposed 
to put more hard drives and cards?  Lo and behold, several years later, I'
m typing this message on an Indigo iMac in my office which I picked out.  Funny 
how we change.

Anyway, in the past year, I've had a lot of old Macs come in as donations 
and I have been testing them and doing the Frankenstein thing to make machines 
that will be fully stacked.  What has amazed me all the way is how limited 
these things are in the expansion options.  I had an LC given to me with a 
MathCoprocessor, but I had to ditch the MathCo to get the network card in.
   What a shame.  Also, I was trying to set up a server for our FileMaker databases.
   After trying a number of configurations to get a zip drive in a 6500 and 
a G3 DT, I finally got tired of the way things were set up and pulled the 
G3 motherboard to do a conversion into an ATX case, so that I could have more 
fans and more drive bays.  It's a shame, really, but at least I have a tower(
not a squat, fat desktop model) that has plenty of fans and lots of room for 
drives.

In all this, I was lamenting that Apple doesn't offer some type of build it 
yourself kit.  If they would make an ATX compatible mobo, with processor installed,
  and sell those, they'd make a mint.  I'd buy one!  I know plenty of other 
people who would too.  I guess the only reason this type of thing doesn't 
happen is because Uncle Steve's pet-peeves keep getting in the way of options.
   Like his pet-peeve against Palm type devices.  Does he have any clue how 
much I'd be willing to pay for a handheld device that runs a variant of OSX 
instead of having to shop around in the Palm/Pocket PC market?  Oh well, enough 
complaining...

Peace,
Todd


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Cameron Kaiser]

> I know many people who would run right out and slap  the
> money down for a G4/Dual G4 with AGP Pro and six or
> more PCI slots, no matter what it cost, because
> that is what they want.

I'd buy one in a New York minute. I'm already nearly out of slots on my
dual 1.25GHz G4.

To bring this back on topic, dropping a NuBus slot from the IIci for built-in
Ethernet on the Q700 wasn't *such* a bad idea since a lot of people were
using one of the slots for Ethernet, but it would have been nice to have
your cake and eat it too. And of course then there's the LC-type boxes which
other than PDS have no expansion options at all. At least you could put *a*
NuBus card in a IIsi with an adaptor.

-- 
- personal page: http://www.armory.com/~spectre/ --
 Cameron Kaiser, Point Loma Nazarene University * [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- ACTUAL CLASSIFIED AD: Parachute, used once, never opened, small stain. $100

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 02:05 -0800 on 26/03/03, Gregg Eshelman wrote:

>--- the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>> Which says to me "patch it!"
>>
>> There *has* to be a way to patch that ROM in
>> software to get around the
>> limitation.  Even if it only allowed the use of
>> low-profile 16 MB SIMMs, that
>> would more than triple the current RAM cap and make
>> the LC and LC II a *lot*
>> more tolerable.
>>
>> Same goes for the MacTV if anyone out there has the
>> skillz to write the patch.
>
>Can't do it with a software patch, unless maybe
>you want to write a whole OS from scratch that
>does not depend on the hardware for access to the RAM.
>(If it's even possible to bypass that ASIC!)

If the ROM was simply coded to ignore the extra RAM, the patching is trivial.

If the RAM controller itself won't recognise more than that, you're right -
it's basically impossible.
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- the pickle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Which says to me "patch it!"
> 
> There *has* to be a way to patch that ROM in
> software to get around the
> limitation.  Even if it only allowed the use of
> low-profile 16 MB SIMMs, that
> would more than triple the current RAM cap and make
> the LC and LC II a *lot*
> more tolerable.
> 
> Same goes for the MacTV if anyone out there has the
> skillz to write the patch.

Can't do it with a software patch, unless maybe
you want to write a whole OS from scratch that
does not depend on the hardware for access to the RAM.
(If it's even possible to bypass that ASIC!)
Older Macs and PCs of that era depended heavily
on direct interaction with the hardware and the
built in software in the ROM or BIOS. The "New World"
Macs and any PC capable of running Windows 95+ use
very little direct hardware access and the built in
software serves little but to get the thing up and
running and to kick off starting the Operating System.
(Modern Macs' "ROM" is actually a part of the OS, a
file loaded into RAM.)

ASIC = Application Specific Integrated Circuit.
That's a chip custom designed for one and only one
application. In many devices the ASIC has been
supplanted by the PGA or Programmable Gate Array or
FPGA (stick a Field in front of PGA) which means it
can be programmed after it's encapsulated in the
packaging. The benefit of F/PGA is that if some
problem is discovered during production, a whole
new chip doesn't have to be fabbed from a corrected
design, they just alter how the chips are programmed
_after_ they are made.

So a question is, is there any FPGA capable of being
programmed to replace the LC/LCII memory controller
but without the RAM size limitation? Next question is,
is there anyone capable of figuring out how to program
it? Finally, if both the first two are YES, is it
really worth it? ;)

=
"Why do Zik-Zak Burgers come in plastic packs? Some of the plastic rubs off on them 
and increases their nutritional value!" Max Headroom

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Gregg Eshelman]

--- Jeff Walther <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Wooo.   I wouldn't go on about this so much, but
> this is a pet peeve 
> of mine about Apple.   They release models that are
> handicapped 
> beyond the requirements of any cost savings.By
> that, I mean that 
> for the same money, and using pretty much the same
> parts, there have 
> been several machines that could have been much
> better were it not 
> for the marketing weenies.

Yep, during the Jobs-less years (and some during the
first Jobs era) Apple was a master at shooting
themselves in both feet at the same time. ;) All those
deliberately hobbled bad designs made to be
"affordable" but which were just cheap were sold in
stores like Wal*Mart next to faster PCs like
Packard Bells with more Mhz, more RAM and bigger
hard drives. Thus the general public got an impression
of Macs being slow and limited in their hardware.

IMHO, the LC and the Mac TV were the lowest point
in Macintosh hardware history. Makes me ask WHY!?
Apple clearly did not "get it" that computer users
(in those years) shopped mostly on capability,
performance and upgradeability, not price, as the
major buying decision points. If they wanted X amount
of computer they were going to buy it, not something
offering only x amount even if it cost a lot less.

Had the IIsi been shipped at the originally planned
25Mhz instead of 20Mhz it would not have cut into
sales of the IIci because people buying the IIci
wanted it for features like the three Nubus slots.
Anyone shopping on price would go for the IIsi.
Nobody looking for the expandability of the IIci
would give the IIsi a first look because it could
never be the computer they wanted.

Expandability has alwyas been a varying thing with
the Macintosh.

First there was none, then the Plus had the ability
to go up to 4 megabytes RAM. Then the SE/30 had the
capacity for 128megs RAM and the PDS connector.
The Mac II had six NuBus slots, so did the IIx and
the IIfx. Then Apple released the IIcx with only three
slots and the IIci with three. Here's where Apple
made a big miss, no three slot 40Mhz 030! Could've
made some cash off people looking for the speed of
the IIfx but not the size so they settled for the
IIci.

Then Apple made yet another goof by only putting
two NuBus slots in the Quadra 700. It gained built
in Ethernet over the IIci, but what was the IIci owner
with three NuBus cards (none of them ethernet) going
to do? One card had to be dumped to make the upgrade.
Could be Apple figured such customers would simply
have to upgrade to the Quadra 840? Then along came
the massive Quadra 900/950 with more NuBus slots.
A brilliant move there.

Then Apple got dumb again by only putting three slots
in the 7100 and 8100 PowerMacs.

Back to smart with the 9500/9600 PowerMac with 6
slots,
which hasn't been seen since.

I wish I knew why Apple has so many times done the
two steps forward and one step back routine when
going to a faster/better CPU. So they may build more
standard features into the box, but cutting
expandability at the same time only cut a significant
number of Mac owners right out of a desire to upgrade
because they'd have to give up some of their stuff.

I know many people who would run right out and slap
the
money down for a G4/Dual G4 with AGP Pro and six or
more PCI slots, no matter what it cost, because
that is what they want. Apple just refuses to build
it. Another $10,000 Mac wouldn't ruffle their
feathers at all, they'd gloat about spending so
much just like they did when they bought a IIfx so
long ago. ;) IMHO, the Power Express, prototypes of
which have stuff that has never been on any production
Mac, would've been a big success. It woulda been
the "Monster Mac" that many have desired for so
long!

=
"Why do Zik-Zak Burgers come in plastic packs? Some of the plastic rubs off on them 
and increases their nutritional value!" Max Headroom

__
Do you Yahoo!?
Yahoo! Platinum - Watch CBS' NCAA March Madness, live on your desktop!
http://platinum.yahoo.com

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 04:05 +1000 on 25/03/03, Adam wrote:

>That would rock, but, is the limitation actually programmed into the ROM? Or
>is it built into the memory controller or some other inaccessable location?

No one really knows for sure, but I suspect the ROM.
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Adam]

> >> Additionally, the Mac II had a maximum RAM of 128 MB.   The LC goes
> >> up to 10 MB.



> >The 10Mb RAM limit was deliberately programmed into the LC's ASICs.
>
> Which says to me "patch it!"
>
> There *has* to be a way to patch that ROM in software to get around the
> limitation.

That would rock, but, is the limitation actually programmed into the ROM? Or
is it built into the memory controller or some other inaccessable location?

Cheers,
Adam.


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[the pickle]

At 03:50 +1000 on 25/03/03, Adam wrote:

>.
>> Additionally, the Mac II had a maximum RAM of 128 MB.   The LC goes
>> up to 10 MB.What's up with that?   It's not even a power of 2.
>> Apple must have done something seriously stupid in the ROM and/or the
>> memory map, because that's not the kind of number you're likely to
>> get from a hardware limitation.
>
>The 10Mb RAM limit was deliberately programmed into the LC's ASICs.

Which says to me "patch it!"

There *has* to be a way to patch that ROM in software to get around the
limitation.  Even if it only allowed the use of low-profile 16 MB SIMMs, that
would more than triple the current RAM cap and make the LC and LC II a *lot*
more tolerable.

Same goes for the MacTV if anyone out there has the skillz to write the patch.
-- 

the pickle

FAQ 
_

-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com

Re: LC Road Apple; Was: Re: new 68k for Dad

[Adam]

. 
> Additionally, the Mac II had a maximum RAM of 128 MB.   The LC goes 
> up to 10 MB.What's up with that?   It's not even a power of 2. 
> Apple must have done something seriously stupid in the ROM and/or the 
> memory map, because that's not the kind of number you're likely to 
> get from a hardware limitation.

The 10Mb RAM limit was deliberately programmed into the LC's ASICs.

Cheers,
Adam.


-- 
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...

 Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
 -- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |

  Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
The FAQ:
  --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
To unsubscribe, email:  
For digest mode, email: 
Subscription questions: 
Archive: 

Using a Mac? Free email & more at Applelinks! http://www.applelinks.com