Re: fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[David Robarts]

From: iriXx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

> now this is just the sort of pettiness i mean
> and personal pettiness too - you quoted a hell of a lot of my post, too.

Yes, he quoted a lot; but not on-list.

David Robarts

-- 

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   the same as he did at 20
has wasted 30 years of his life."

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[WARNING} Re: fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[Marten van de Kraats]

Alex and Dan are suspended for the next 48 hours.
I meant of course Alex and Darren.

Marten

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[WARNING} Re: fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[Marten van de Kraats]

Supposedly these three guys are right and the list mom made a mistake 
(he too is human after all), they are making it increasingly 
difficult for me to do something for her.

That's what I meant when I wrote about not going into open warfare.

BTW This IrixX guy has also been suspended. Did that yesterday 
already. Not sure how long I am gonna have him suspended. Might be a 
bit longer than 48 hours.

Marten

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[WARNING} Re: fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[Marten van de Kraats]

Alex and Dan are suspended for the next 48 hours. They will not be 
able to post during that time.  This thread was officially closed, 
they ignored my warning. Now they must face the consequences.

Marten
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Re: fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[Alex]

I think permanent, lifetime bans suck.

-Alex



Dan Knight wrote:

Always atleast two sides to a story.

flawed jai was kicked off this and other lists for putting my 
address on a personal spam list and continuing to send me unwanted 
email despite several requests to stop doing so. It had nothing to 
do with an off topic post. It had to do with spamming me after I 
said I would ban flawed jai from the list if it ever happened again.



Janet uses a old webtv setup for internet currently, buggy as they 
are with their IR keyboard and mouse... We seen a few good 
excuses on this list, I kinda like this one

I'll be going down my list
of addresses, clicking off which ones to send to, and if the cursor lags
on one name, and then jumps ahead to another, I might have checked/
clicked a stoke, meant to indicate what i want to be the next name
entered, but the system processes the signal while the frame is on that
intermediate name that i did not want checked, and enters it instead.
how often  do you read the entire header of email names you cued up, to
see if it's everybody you meant to send it to?
do you even memorize everybody's email address in your book? or do you
trust the machine to do it?
i wrote dan, offering to wipe his singular name out of my book, so that
error can never happen again, but he's dead sure i did this to harass
him deliberately, on a 'spam list'.
by that stance, then every thing i ever send anyone must be spam. guess
I'm just excluded from polite company and relegated to the sewers of
netdom. guess dan thinks i am incapable of speaking to anyone in email,
and i exist only to write spam. guess i'm not fit to keep an address
book or initiate contact. I'm to speak only when spoken to, and never
venture to show anyone anything i saw on the net for myself...
what gets me, is that he threw me off the LISTS.
i didnt 'spam' the lists.
and i didnt 'spam' him-- and i dont keep what he's calling a 'spam
list'.
i was using my system--with all its glitches and lags and  aggravations,
which i might add, I've gotten damn tuned to-- and can usually kill an
unwanted action by reflex, by now--but this one got thru-- and he got an
unwanted forward he thinks proves that I'm rude and inconsiderate and a
troll, out to get him.
i guess no one is allowed to ever make an error. i guess systems have to
be perfect and failsafe and absolutely never hitch or hiccup--in his
world.
i was reasonable. i was polite. i apologized for machine and human
error.
i made a reasonable offer to rememdy it on my end.
wasn't good enough for him.
only banning me from the community was good enough for him.
it was dan, the person, at his own screen, that this mistaken forward
went to.
not to the LEM lists. and not to some 'spam list'. not unless he thinks
any person's address book is a 'spam list'.
but instead of blocking ME --from his PERSONAL email reception--which
would have made sense--he eliminates me from the POSTING lists--which
makes no sense at all.
As you'd image this is a portion of Janets mail, she does write alot.
It seems to be a easy enough mistake to get over and its not like 
this list can't use more active listers.
Posted to the list since some people liked Janet and might wonder 
how she came to be some dreaded spammer also a warning for those of 
you who have Dans email address in easy reach. Offlist isn't off 
list where he's concerned.

Now some of you would like to see me gone. You wont get a better 
chance, knock yourselves out.


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Re: fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[Darren]

Dan Knight wrote:

Always atleast two sides to a story.

flawed jai was kicked off this and other lists for putting my address on 
a personal spam list and continuing to send me unwanted email despite 
several requests to stop doing so. It had nothing to do with an off topic 
post. It had to do with spamming me after I said I would ban flawed jai 
from the list if it ever happened again.
 



Janet uses a old webtv setup for internet currently, buggy as they are 
with their IR keyboard and mouse... We seen a few good excuses on 
this list, I kinda like this one

I'll be going down my list
of addresses, clicking off which ones to send to, and if the cursor lags
on one name, and then jumps ahead to another, I might have checked/
clicked a stoke, meant to indicate what i want to be the next name
entered, but the system processes the signal while the frame is on that
intermediate name that i did not want checked, and enters it instead.
how often  do you read the entire header of email names you cued up, to
see if it's everybody you meant to send it to?
do you even memorize everybody's email address in your book? or do you
trust the machine to do it?
i wrote dan, offering to wipe his singular name out of my book, so that
error can never happen again, but he's dead sure i did this to harass
him deliberately, on a 'spam list'.
by that stance, then every thing i ever send anyone must be spam. guess
I'm just excluded from polite company and relegated to the sewers of
netdom. guess dan thinks i am incapable of speaking to anyone in email,
and i exist only to write spam. guess i'm not fit to keep an address
book or initiate contact. I'm to speak only when spoken to, and never
venture to show anyone anything i saw on the net for myself...
what gets me, is that he threw me off the LISTS.
i didnt 'spam' the lists.
and i didnt 'spam' him-- and i dont keep what he's calling a 'spam
list'.
i was using my system--with all its glitches and lags and  aggravations,
which i might add, I've gotten damn tuned to-- and can usually kill an
unwanted action by reflex, by now--but this one got thru-- and he got an
unwanted forward he thinks proves that I'm rude and inconsiderate and a
troll, out to get him.
i guess no one is allowed to ever make an error. i guess systems have to
be perfect and failsafe and absolutely never hitch or hiccup--in his
world.
i was reasonable. i was polite. i apologized for machine and human
error.
i made a reasonable offer to rememdy it on my end.
wasn't good enough for him.
only banning me from the community was good enough for him.
it was dan, the person, at his own screen, that this mistaken forward
went to.
not to the LEM lists. and not to some 'spam list'. not unless he thinks
any person's address book is a 'spam list'.
but instead of blocking ME --from his PERSONAL email reception--which
would have made sense--he eliminates me from the POSTING lists--which
makes no sense at all.
As you'd image this is a portion of Janets mail, she does write alot.
It seems to be a easy enough mistake to get over and its not like this 
list can't use more active listers.
Posted to the list since some people liked Janet and might wonder how 
she came to be some dreaded spammer also a warning for those of you who 
have Dans email address in easy reach. Offlist isn't off list where he's 
concerned.

Now some of you would like to see me gone. You wont get a better chance, 
knock yourselves out.



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[WARNING] Re: fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[Marten van de Kraats]

This thread is now officially closed.

Marten

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Re: fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[Pack Mule]

Why don't you just shut the hell up and go start your
own lists - theos!
-- 
Yeah, I top posted what about it?!

--- iriXx <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> Gamba wrote:
> 
> >>flawed jai was kicked off this and other lists for
> putting my address on
> >>a personal spam list and continuing to send me
> unwanted email despite
> >>several requests to stop doing so. It had nothing
> to do with an off topic
> >>post. It had to do with spamming me after I said I
> would ban flawed jai
> > 
> >>from the list if it ever happened again.
> > 
> >>Dan the listmom
> > 
> > 
> > I guess I'm just having another one of my stupid
> days.
> > I don't understand why behavior that is completely
> off-list is
> > justification for being kicked off list(s).
> 
> 
> well exactly. surely thats a personal matter, not a
> list matter. thats 
> precisely the sort of thing i'm ranting about -
> personal issues are 
> clouding professional judgement in the running of
> this list. and this is 
> discouraging people from joining and from posting.
> 
> bw
> 
> m~
> 
> -- 
> |\  _,,,---,,_
>   ZZZzz /,`.-'`'-.  ;-;;,_ HTTP 503: Too
> Busy
>|,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
>  '---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL
> 
> 
> "Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are
> subtle and will piss on your computer."
> -- Bruce Graham
> 
> 
> Musicians say No to RIAA Persecution and Prosecution
> of Music Lovers!
> 
> Sign the petition at
> http://www.copyleftmedia.org.uk/justsayno/
> 
> 
>   .::. www.iriXx.org .::. www.copyleftmedia.org.uk
> .::.
> 
> 
> 
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> and...
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Re: fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[iriXx]

flawed jai was kicked off this and other lists for putting my address on
a personal spam list and continuing to send me unwanted email despite
several requests to stop doing so. It had nothing to do with an off topic
post. It had to do with spamming me after I said I would ban flawed jai

from the list if it ever happened again.

Dan the listmom


from what i've heard, it was an accidental posting too.

but we're not allowed to have accidents on Vintage-Macs - or offlist, 
for that matter!

m~

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"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are
subtle and will piss on your computer."
-- Bruce Graham
Musicians say No to RIAA Persecution and Prosecution of Music Lovers!

Sign the petition at http://www.copyleftmedia.org.uk/justsayno/

 .::. www.iriXx.org .::. www.copyleftmedia.org.uk .::.



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Re: fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[iriXx]

Gamba wrote:

flawed jai was kicked off this and other lists for putting my address on
a personal spam list and continuing to send me unwanted email despite
several requests to stop doing so. It had nothing to do with an off topic
post. It had to do with spamming me after I said I would ban flawed jai

from the list if it ever happened again.

Dan the listmom


I guess I'm just having another one of my stupid days.
I don't understand why behavior that is completely off-list is
justification for being kicked off list(s).


well exactly. surely thats a personal matter, not a list matter. thats 
precisely the sort of thing i'm ranting about - personal issues are 
clouding professional judgement in the running of this list. and this is 
discouraging people from joining and from posting.

bw

m~

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 ZZZzz /,`.-'`'-.  ;-;;,_ HTTP 503: Too Busy
  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
'---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are
subtle and will piss on your computer."
-- Bruce Graham
Musicians say No to RIAA Persecution and Prosecution of Music Lovers!

Sign the petition at http://www.copyleftmedia.org.uk/justsayno/

 .::. www.iriXx.org .::. www.copyleftmedia.org.uk .::.



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Re: fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[Gamba]

>flawed jai was kicked off this and other lists for putting my address on
>a personal spam list and continuing to send me unwanted email despite
>several requests to stop doing so. It had nothing to do with an off topic
>post. It had to do with spamming me after I said I would ban flawed jai
>from the list if it ever happened again.
>Dan the listmom

I guess I'm just having another one of my stupid days.
I don't understand why behavior that is completely off-list is
justification for being kicked off list(s).

Gamba




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Re: fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[iriXx]

Dan Knight wrote:


Don't have a cow, iriXx (do you expect us to capitalize that in the way 
you like, BTW?). Using MAC, MHZ, ram, or other typos is not grounds for 
banning. I'm just pointing out that they are often used incorrectly on 
these lists -- and educating subscribers about correct usage.
i'm quite used to people spelling my name as Irixx, irixx and irixX,
and i at least excuse them on the grounds of human fallibility - 
something which doesnt seem to exist on this list.

flawed jai was kicked off this and other lists for putting my address on 
a personal spam list and continuing to send me unwanted email despite 
several requests to stop doing so. It had nothing to do with an off topic 
post. It had to do with spamming me after I said I would ban flawed jai 
from the list if it ever happened again.
oh right, so you kicked her off the list for personal reasons? thats 
highly unprofessional.

i've been asked to forward to the list a paragraph i wrote to someone 
offlist regarding personal issues clouding professional judgement in 
kicking flawed jai out. i'll do so in a second.


Perhaps we should ask for five reasons to keep someone on the list who 
seems to be too lazy to use the shift key
that would just suit your pettiness, wouldnt it?

five reasons to kick off an artist and writer who writes in all 
lower-case letters for artistic reasons.

you'd probably kick off famous Mac user and musician 'NN' for her use of 
the exclaimation mark in place of the letter 'i'. personally, i call 
that character.

m~

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   |\  _,,,---,,_
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  |,4-  ) )-,_. ,\ (  `'-'
'---''(_/--'  `-'\_) fL
"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are
subtle and will piss on your computer."
-- Bruce Graham
Musicians say No to RIAA Persecution and Prosecution of Music Lovers!

Sign the petition at http://www.copyleftmedia.org.uk/justsayno/

 .::. www.iriXx.org .::. www.copyleftmedia.org.uk .::.



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Re: fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[iriXx]

now this is just the sort of pettiness i mean
and personal pettiness too - you quoted a hell of a lot of my post, too.
all i'm asking is for you guys to be human, but that seems too much to ask.

Dan Knight wrote:
This is a semi-automatic message from Dan, the listmom.

Thanks for posting to the list.

Please be careful not to quote *too much* of the original message (your 
recent posting is quoted below) when replying to the list -- especially 
the header and/or footer. (You're not being singled out; we send this to 
everyone who does that.)

Thanks!

On 7/23/03 10:02 PM, iriXx posted:


i'm sorry, but while i do appreciate the time you and our list nanny put 
in to maintaining these lists, i'm getting really fed up at the 
childishness and unneccessarily heavy handed discipline.

even a parent knows that one must let go and trust a little for a child to 
grow - thinking of the lists as your children. overdiscipline just makes 
for rebellion and anger, and i've observed that happening over the last 
few months too.

its got to the point where i dare not post for fear of making some kind of 
tiny typo which becomes a disciplinary matter - and yes, i quite often 
type ram instead of RAM, because i type all in lower case letters, and i 
think everyone knows damn well what i'm on about. am i to be suspended for 
doing so? thats what i wonder, when i read this latest series of notes.

i was also made aware that flawed jai, a valuable contributor to this 
list, was kicked off because of an accidental off topic post. this is 
ridiculous! you guys are worse than the RIAA! 

as you've now effectively killed off all the character on this list by 
kicking off members one by one, i'm finding less and less reason to read 
this increasingly pedantic tripe. i'm very tempted to unsubscribe.. now 
give me five reasons i should stay and none of them should be spelt with 
capitals.

m~

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:24:42 -0400
Dan Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Several topics. Please keep this email handy for future reference.

When contacting me about your subscription, please be sure to tell me 
which list(s) you're on. We run about 30 right now, and I don't have a 
simple way of finding out what list(s) you may subscribe to.

Three rants about capitalization:

1. Memory is RAM, for Random Access Memory. It's not Ram or ram.

2. Cycles are abbreviated Hz in honor of Mr. Hertz. KHz, MHz, and GHz are 
the correct abbreviations for kilohertz, megahertz, and gigahertz.

3. The computer is a Mac, short for Macintosh. MAC stands for the Machine 
Address built into ethernet support circuitry.

As an editor, it drives me nuts to see these used incorrectly. (I guess 
you have to be a bit anal to be an editor)

We have no control over the bounce messages generated by the Maclaunch 
server, nor can we manually reset the bounce counter. We cannot access 
the bounce counter.

If you get bounce messages from the list server and your replies are 
rejected, try removing everything from the subject line except for the 
number and also deleting the entire body of your reply message. That 
seems to work.

(I don't know why the list server refuses to acknowledge emails with 
attachments or styled text, but we have no control over that.)

Everyone hates spam -- and we can help you fight it. Email addresses at 
lemlists.com are available for US$6 per year, and we use Spam Assassin to 
identify and label probable spam. This isn't a challenge-response system. 
Spam Assassin looks at the email, scores each message based on factors 
usually found in spam, and clearly marks them as spam in the subject line.

However, it doesn't delete the spam -- it knows that it could misidentify 
a message, so it leaves it up to you to delete your spam. But having 
messages marked **SPAM** sure helps.

Email addresses at lemlists.com are only available to members of our 
email lists, and the $6/yr helps defray hosting costs for our domains.

For those who want more than just an email address, we also offer email 
addresses, personal Web space, and more at lowendmac.net. An email 
address is $12/year -- and also protected by Spam Assassin.

 for more on LEMlists email accounts.

 for email and more.

For the record, I invest about 40 hours a week in Low End Mac and about 
20 more working part time at a local camera shop. I don't have enough 
time to keep tabs on everything in a timely fashion. Sometimes I don't 
get through the lists for a week or two. That's one of the reasons we 
have list nannies to help out on the busier lists.

If we can generate enough income from LEMlists and lowendmac.net, I can 
cut back on the camera store job and dedicate more time to Low End Mac, 
including creating our own mailing list software that will address all of 
the shortcomings of the current software. Until then, it's mostly a pipe 
dream.

I have the new list manager all outlined, but there just aren't en

Re: fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[Dan Knight]

On 7/23/03 10:02 PM, iriXx posted:

>i'm sorry, but while i do appreciate the time you and our list nanny put 
>in to maintaining these lists, i'm getting really fed up at the 
>childishness and unneccessarily heavy handed discipline.
>
>even a parent knows that one must let go and trust a little for a child to 
>grow - thinking of the lists as your children. overdiscipline just makes 
>for rebellion and anger, and i've observed that happening over the last 
>few months too.
>
>its got to the point where i dare not post for fear of making some kind of 
>tiny typo which becomes a disciplinary matter - and yes, i quite often 
>type ram instead of RAM, because i type all in lower case letters, and i 
>think everyone knows damn well what i'm on about. am i to be suspended for 
>doing so? thats what i wonder, when i read this latest series of notes.

Don't have a cow, iriXx (do you expect us to capitalize that in the way 
you like, BTW?). Using MAC, MHZ, ram, or other typos is not grounds for 
banning. I'm just pointing out that they are often used incorrectly on 
these lists -- and educating subscribers about correct usage.

>i was also made aware that flawed jai, a valuable contributor to this 
>list, was kicked off because of an accidental off topic post. this is 
>ridiculous! you guys are worse than the RIAA! 

flawed jai was kicked off this and other lists for putting my address on 
a personal spam list and continuing to send me unwanted email despite 
several requests to stop doing so. It had nothing to do with an off topic 
post. It had to do with spamming me after I said I would ban flawed jai 
from the list if it ever happened again.

>as you've now effectively killed off all the character on this list by 
>kicking off members one by one, i'm finding less and less reason to read 
>this increasingly pedantic tripe. i'm very tempted to unsubscribe.. now 
>give me five reasons i should stay and none of them should be spelt with 
>capitals.

I can't think of one, since you seem to have nothing to do but bitch 
about perceived failings in the way the list is run -- even if your 
perceptions are wrong.

Perhaps we should ask for five reasons to keep someone on the list who 
seems to be too lazy to use the shift key

Dan the listmom


-- 
Dan Knight, president, Cobweb Publishing, Inc.
  
  
   

Microsoft Windows? How 20th century!


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Re: fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[Marten van de Kraats]

i'm sorry, but while i do appreciate the time you and our list nanny 
put in to maintaining these lists, i'm getting really fed up at the 
childishness and unneccessarily heavy handed discipline.

even a parent knows that one must let go and trust a little for a 
child to grow - thinking of the lists as your children. 
overdiscipline just makes for rebellion and anger, and i've observed 
that happening over the last few months too.
I don't know if you have noticed but this list is alive and kicking 
again. Just take a look at the traffic. It has been back to normal 
for quite some time now. Also I haven't witnessed any rebellion as of 
recently.  I admit to end fights and off topic threads as soon as I 
notice them, because I have witnessed what has happened before on 
this list. It wasn't the strict attitude of the nanny's that was 
slowly killing this list, on the contrary, it was the endless 
fighting between its members.
At the moment new subscribers aren't being scared away anymore and 
the old ones are sticking around, at leas one member came back 
because the list is pretty peace full again.


its got to the point where i dare not post for fear of making some 
kind of tiny typo which becomes a disciplinary matter - and yes, i 
quite often type ram instead of RAM, because i type all in lower 
case letters, and i think everyone knows damn well what i'm on 
about. am i to be suspended for doing so? thats what i wonder, when 
i read this latest series of notes.
The fact that the listmom hates these small linguistic mistakes does 
not mean that the list nanny will suspend people for typing things 
the wrong way. I make these mistakes myself frequently. BTW So far I 
have not suspended a single list member since I was installed as a 
list nanny, although I am prepared to do so if necessary.


i was also made aware that flawed jai, a valuable contributor to 
this list, was kicked off because of an accidental off topic post. 
this is ridiculous! you guys are worse than the RIAA!
Flawed Jai has not been kicked off this list by me. Could be she has 
left on her own account. I don't know about that.


as you've now effectively killed off all the character on this list 
by kicking off members one by one, i'm finding less and less reason 
to read this increasingly pedantic tripe. i'm very tempted to 
unsubscribe.. now give me five reasons i should stay and none of 
them should be spelt with capitals.
Five reasons? I guess You must figure them out yourself. A love for 
all things vintage Macintosh might be the most important of them.

Marten
--
Vintage Macs list nanny
--
Check out the System 6 Heaven:
http://www.euronet.nl/users/mvdk/system_6_heaven.html
--
--
Vintage Macs is sponsored by  and...
Small Dog Electronicshttp://www.smalldog.com   | Enter To Win A |
-- Canon PowerShot Digital Cameras start at $299   |  Free iBook!   |
 Support Low End Mac 

Vintage Macs list info: 
 --> AOL users, remove "mailto:";
Send list messages to:  
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fed up rant was Re: Notes from the List Mom

[iriXx]

i'm sorry, but while i do appreciate the time you and our list nanny put in to 
maintaining these lists, i'm getting really fed up at the childishness and 
unneccessarily heavy handed discipline.

even a parent knows that one must let go and trust a little for a child to grow - 
thinking of the lists as your children. overdiscipline just makes for rebellion and 
anger, and i've observed that happening over the last few months too.

its got to the point where i dare not post for fear of making some kind of tiny typo 
which becomes a disciplinary matter - and yes, i quite often type ram instead of RAM, 
because i type all in lower case letters, and i think everyone knows damn well what 
i'm on about. am i to be suspended for doing so? thats what i wonder, when i read this 
latest series of notes.

i was also made aware that flawed jai, a valuable contributor to this list, was kicked 
off because of an accidental off topic post. this is ridiculous! you guys are worse 
than the RIAA! 

as you've now effectively killed off all the character on this list by kicking off 
members one by one, i'm finding less and less reason to read this increasingly 
pedantic tripe. i'm very tempted to unsubscribe.. now give me five reasons i should 
stay and none of them should be spelt with capitals.

m~

On Wed, 23 Jul 2003 19:24:42 -0400
Dan Knight <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Several topics. Please keep this email handy for future reference.
> 
> 
> When contacting me about your subscription, please be sure to tell me 
> which list(s) you're on. We run about 30 right now, and I don't have a 
> simple way of finding out what list(s) you may subscribe to.
> 
> 
> Three rants about capitalization:
> 
> 1. Memory is RAM, for Random Access Memory. It's not Ram or ram.
> 
> 2. Cycles are abbreviated Hz in honor of Mr. Hertz. KHz, MHz, and GHz are 
> the correct abbreviations for kilohertz, megahertz, and gigahertz.
> 
> 3. The computer is a Mac, short for Macintosh. MAC stands for the Machine 
> Address built into ethernet support circuitry.
> 
> As an editor, it drives me nuts to see these used incorrectly. (I guess 
> you have to be a bit anal to be an editor)
> 
> 
> We have no control over the bounce messages generated by the Maclaunch 
> server, nor can we manually reset the bounce counter. We cannot access 
> the bounce counter.
> 
> If you get bounce messages from the list server and your replies are 
> rejected, try removing everything from the subject line except for the 
> number and also deleting the entire body of your reply message. That 
> seems to work.
> 
> (I don't know why the list server refuses to acknowledge emails with 
> attachments or styled text, but we have no control over that.)
> 
> 
> Everyone hates spam -- and we can help you fight it. Email addresses at 
> lemlists.com are available for US$6 per year, and we use Spam Assassin to 
> identify and label probable spam. This isn't a challenge-response system. 
> Spam Assassin looks at the email, scores each message based on factors 
> usually found in spam, and clearly marks them as spam in the subject line.
> 
> However, it doesn't delete the spam -- it knows that it could misidentify 
> a message, so it leaves it up to you to delete your spam. But having 
> messages marked **SPAM** sure helps.
> 
> Email addresses at lemlists.com are only available to members of our 
> email lists, and the $6/yr helps defray hosting costs for our domains.
> 
> For those who want more than just an email address, we also offer email 
> addresses, personal Web space, and more at lowendmac.net. An email 
> address is $12/year -- and also protected by Spam Assassin.
> 
>  for more on LEMlists email accounts.
> 
>  for email and more.
> 
> 
> For the record, I invest about 40 hours a week in Low End Mac and about 
> 20 more working part time at a local camera shop. I don't have enough 
> time to keep tabs on everything in a timely fashion. Sometimes I don't 
> get through the lists for a week or two. That's one of the reasons we 
> have list nannies to help out on the busier lists.
> 
> If we can generate enough income from LEMlists and lowendmac.net, I can 
> cut back on the camera store job and dedicate more time to Low End Mac, 
> including creating our own mailing list software that will address all of 
> the shortcomings of the current software. Until then, it's mostly a pipe 
> dream.
> 
> I have the new list manager all outlined, but there just aren't enough 
> hours to do much work on it, especially working 1-1/2 jobs. It's going to 
> be the best thing going when it's done. I'll be able to see what lists 
> you receive by typing in your email address. We'll have a single address 
> database, so I won't have to update several lists when someone's email 
> address changes. We'll be able to strip out the styles from styled text 
> and the attachments, making it that much easier for everyone to post. And