Accessible VS Usable -- Was Re: [Maccessibility] Google Releases Official YouTube App
I think this boils down to accessible verses usable. Some feel that if an app doesn't conform 100% to Voice Over standards then it's not accessible. Others feel that if they can use the app with minimal fuss, then it's accessible. Then comes that grey area of defining what is minimal fuss. For example, I would term the downcast app as both accessible and usable. Yet the Netflix app is just usable to me while not being very accessible. This is because I have to do things in a certain way in Netflix app to get what I want and sometimes that's not very convenient. The reason the things have to be done are due to their lack of accessibility features. Now an app like Google Places isn't either accessible or usable to me. This is because it shows unlabeled buttons in many areas and sometimes the labels work and sometimes they do not. This is how it was last year when I tried it out anyway. If things have changed I can revisit the app and see what's up with it. However when all I hear is button button button button for things I want to do, it doesn't sound like it's very usable or accessible to me. Lastly, an app like MotionX GPS Drive is considered accessible, but I don't find it very useful. Whether it's because of my mode of thinking or because I'm used to Navigon I don't know. I just can't get myself to like it. I gave it a fair try during the free trial of the voice guidance and found it to be clunky at best when trying to find a destination or to cancel a route or to do other things which I find easy with Navigon. The only thing it had going for it is that it loaded faster than Navigon. So, there's my usable cents on accessibility. -- Raul A. Gallegos The best time to make friends is before you need them. ~ Ether Barrymore Home Page: http://raulgallegos.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/rau47 Facebook: http://facebook.com/rau47 On 9/11/2012 12:22 PM, Scott Davert wrote: Hmm. From what I've been reading on AppleVis, it is accessible, but not in the conventional method. Which begs the question of what defines accessibility? is something not accessible if you cannot accessit using the standard functions of your screen reader? As I understand it, the Sign in process can work without disabling VoiceOver. Essentially, the app is divided in to columns, and the standard flicking left and right gesture does not work. However, if you touch the screen in the appropriate place, VoiceOver is able to give the info to you. But to get to the other column on the screen, you have to tap something on the right side of it, and then tap the left side to get back to that series of columns. I'll have to play around with this when I get the time, but as I understand it, this is how it can be done. Scott -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
RE: Accessible VS Usable -- Was Re: [Maccessibility] Google Releases Official YouTube App
I very much like the distinction between accessible and usable. I'm not sure I use the 2 correctly or in conformity with how most people use the terms. I'd like to learn to conform with general usage. Accessible, to me, means that VoiceOver is largely if not completely enabled on an app or in software. There may be varying degrees of accessibility, from none, to low, to moderate to high to complete. Usability, to me, means an app or software may be fully accessible, but usability can be low, due to a non-intuitive layout or tab sequencing or something else. Is my understanding of the terms accessible and usable above accurate in terms of common usage? If not, I'd appreciate clarification. Thanks. Keith -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:25 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Accessible VS Usable -- Was Re: [Maccessibility] Google Releases Official YouTube App I think this boils down to accessible verses usable. Some feel that if an app doesn't conform 100% to Voice Over standards then it's not accessible. Others feel that if they can use the app with minimal fuss, then it's accessible. Then comes that grey area of defining what is minimal fuss. For example, I would term the downcast app as both accessible and usable. Yet the Netflix app is just usable to me while not being very accessible. This is because I have to do things in a certain way in Netflix app to get what I want and sometimes that's not very convenient. The reason the things have to be done are due to their lack of accessibility features. Now an app like Google Places isn't either accessible or usable to me. This is because it shows unlabeled buttons in many areas and sometimes the labels work and sometimes they do not. This is how it was last year when I tried it out anyway. If things have changed I can revisit the app and see what's up with it. However when all I hear is button button button button for things I want to do, it doesn't sound like it's very usable or accessible to me. Lastly, an app like MotionX GPS Drive is considered accessible, but I don't find it very useful. Whether it's because of my mode of thinking or because I'm used to Navigon I don't know. I just can't get myself to like it. I gave it a fair try during the free trial of the voice guidance and found it to be clunky at best when trying to find a destination or to cancel a route or to do other things which I find easy with Navigon. The only thing it had going for it is that it loaded faster than Navigon. So, there's my usable cents on accessibility. -- Raul A. Gallegos The best time to make friends is before you need them. ~ Ether Barrymore Home Page: http://raulgallegos.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/rau47 Facebook: http://facebook.com/rau47 On 9/11/2012 12:22 PM, Scott Davert wrote: Hmm. From what I've been reading on AppleVis, it is accessible, but not in the conventional method. Which begs the question of what defines accessibility? is something not accessible if you cannot accessit using the standard functions of your screen reader? As I understand it, the Sign in process can work without disabling VoiceOver. Essentially, the app is divided in to columns, and the standard flicking left and right gesture does not work. However, if you touch the screen in the appropriate place, VoiceOver is able to give the info to you. But to get to the other column on the screen, you have to tap something on the right side of it, and then tap the left side to get back to that series of columns. I'll have to play around with this when I get the time, but as I understand it, this is how it can be done. Scott -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Accessible VS Usable -- Was Re: [Maccessibility] Google Releases Official YouTube App
The app is great Sent from my iPhone On Sep 11, 2012, at 7:24 PM, Raul A. Gallegos r...@raulgallegos.com wrote: I think this boils down to accessible verses usable. Some feel that if an app doesn't conform 100% to Voice Over standards then it's not accessible. Others feel that if they can use the app with minimal fuss, then it's accessible. Then comes that grey area of defining what is minimal fuss. For example, I would term the downcast app as both accessible and usable. Yet the Netflix app is just usable to me while not being very accessible. This is because I have to do things in a certain way in Netflix app to get what I want and sometimes that's not very convenient. The reason the things have to be done are due to their lack of accessibility features. Now an app like Google Places isn't either accessible or usable to me. This is because it shows unlabeled buttons in many areas and sometimes the labels work and sometimes they do not. This is how it was last year when I tried it out anyway. If things have changed I can revisit the app and see what's up with it. However when all I hear is button button button button for things I want to do, it doesn't sound like it's very usable or accessible to me. Lastly, an app like MotionX GPS Drive is considered accessible, but I don't find it very useful. Whether it's because of my mode of thinking or because I'm used to Navigon I don't know. I just can't get myself to like it. I gave it a fair try during the free trial of the voice guidance and found it to be clunky at best when trying to find a destination or to cancel a route or to do other things which I find easy with Navigon. The only thing it had going for it is that it loaded faster than Navigon. So, there's my usable cents on accessibility. -- Raul A. Gallegos The best time to make friends is before you need them. ~ Ether Barrymore Home Page: http://raulgallegos.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/rau47 Facebook: http://facebook.com/rau47 On 9/11/2012 12:22 PM, Scott Davert wrote: Hmm. From what I've been reading on AppleVis, it is accessible, but not in the conventional method. Which begs the question of what defines accessibility? is something not accessible if you cannot accessit using the standard functions of your screen reader? As I understand it, the Sign in process can work without disabling VoiceOver. Essentially, the app is divided in to columns, and the standard flicking left and right gesture does not work. However, if you touch the screen in the appropriate place, VoiceOver is able to give the info to you. But to get to the other column on the screen, you have to tap something on the right side of it, and then tap the left side to get back to that series of columns. I'll have to play around with this when I get the time, but as I understand it, this is how it can be done. Scott -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
Re: Accessible VS Usable -- Was Re: [Maccessibility] Google Releases Official YouTube App
I think you're terms are correct. I also tend to use the terms exactly the way Raul does as well. I think to summarize: accessible: conforms to accessibility standards usable: with familiarity, work arounds and so on, the applications can be used although it's not technically accessible usability: easy to use, due to accessibility, layout, intuitiveness and so on On 11/09/12 19:40, Kramlinger, Keith G., M.D. wrote: I very much like the distinction between accessible and usable. I'm not sure I use the 2 correctly or in conformity with how most people use the terms. I'd like to learn to conform with general usage. Accessible, to me, means that VoiceOver is largely if not completely enabled on an app or in software. There may be varying degrees of accessibility, from none, to low, to moderate to high to complete. Usability, to me, means an app or software may be fully accessible, but usability can be low, due to a non-intuitive layout or tab sequencing or something else. Is my understanding of the terms accessible and usable above accurate in terms of common usage? If not, I'd appreciate clarification. Thanks. Keith -Original Message- From: viphone@googlegroups.com [mailto:viphone@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Raul A. Gallegos Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2012 7:25 PM To: viphone@googlegroups.com Subject: Accessible VS Usable -- Was Re: [Maccessibility] Google Releases Official YouTube App I think this boils down to accessible verses usable. Some feel that if an app doesn't conform 100% to Voice Over standards then it's not accessible. Others feel that if they can use the app with minimal fuss, then it's accessible. Then comes that grey area of defining what is minimal fuss. For example, I would term the downcast app as both accessible and usable. Yet the Netflix app is just usable to me while not being very accessible. This is because I have to do things in a certain way in Netflix app to get what I want and sometimes that's not very convenient. The reason the things have to be done are due to their lack of accessibility features. Now an app like Google Places isn't either accessible or usable to me. This is because it shows unlabeled buttons in many areas and sometimes the labels work and sometimes they do not. This is how it was last year when I tried it out anyway. If things have changed I can revisit the app and see what's up with it. However when all I hear is button button button button for things I want to do, it doesn't sound like it's very usable or accessible to me. Lastly, an app like MotionX GPS Drive is considered accessible, but I don't find it very useful. Whether it's because of my mode of thinking or because I'm used to Navigon I don't know. I just can't get myself to like it. I gave it a fair try during the free trial of the voice guidance and found it to be clunky at best when trying to find a destination or to cancel a route or to do other things which I find easy with Navigon. The only thing it had going for it is that it loaded faster than Navigon. So, there's my usable cents on accessibility. -- Raul A. Gallegos The best time to make friends is before you need them. ~ Ether Barrymore Home Page: http://raulgallegos.com Twitter: https://twitter.com/rau47 Facebook: http://facebook.com/rau47 On 9/11/2012 12:22 PM, Scott Davert wrote: Hmm. From what I've been reading on AppleVis, it is accessible, but not in the conventional method. Which begs the question of what defines accessibility? is something not accessible if you cannot accessit using the standard functions of your screen reader? As I understand it, the Sign in process can work without disabling VoiceOver. Essentially, the app is divided in to columns, and the standard flicking left and right gesture does not work. However, if you touch the screen in the appropriate place, VoiceOver is able to give the info to you. But to get to the other column on the screen, you have to tap something on the right side of it, and then tap the left side to get back to that series of columns. I'll have to play around with this when I get the time, but as I understand it, this is how it can be done. Scott -- Christopher (CJ) chaltain at Gmail -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the VIPhone Google Group. To search the VIPhone public archive, visit http://www.mail-archive.com/viphone@googlegroups.com/. To post to this group, send email to viphone@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to viphone+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/viphone?hl=en.
